subject:"python logo"

No matter what you do, Python is going to sum up the image of a
powerful snake. I suppose you could change the name to Monty, if you
wanted more humor and more of a reference to Monty Python, or maybe
Bring Out Your Dead.

Personally I like the snake associations and the notion that you're
joining a cult where everybody speaks in Parseltongue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priori_Incantatem#Speaking_parseltongue

rd

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Re: proposed Python logo

 Too rigid-looking somehow.

Hey, I'm an amateur...  There are lots of variations on the concept I
can think of. I want someone with a lot of design talent  *and a little
familiarity with the language* to take enough interest to have a go at
it.

At least (unlike the tadpoles) it has some resonance with the product
it's trying to represent.

mt

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Re: proposed Python logo

On 2006-04-21, Michael Tobis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Too rigid-looking somehow.

 Hey, I'm an amateur...  There are lots of variations on the concept I
 can think of. I want someone with a lot of design talent  *and a little
 familiarity with the language* to take enough interest to have a go at
 it.

 At least (unlike the tadpoles) it has some resonance with the product
 it's trying to represent.

Not that I'm disagreeing, but how to you rate resonance with
the product?

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Re: proposed Python logo

2006-04-21 Thread RK

That's a good try...

Can we get some street pros?

http://www.graffitifonts.com/

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Re: proposed Python logo

2006-04-21 Thread Simon Brunning

On 4/21/06, Michael Yanowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think something from Monty Python (I haven't watched it recently
 to know what would be ideal) would be more appropriate than an ugly
 reptile which is usually associated with evil and our reason for leaving
 the Garden of Eden.

+1. I'd like some variation of http://tinyurl.com/gj74k used as a logo.

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Re: proposed Python logo

 I'd like some variation of http://tinyurl.com/gj74k used as a logo.

That has real potential, but I bet it's trademarked.

rick

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Re: proposed Python logo

Don't you think the Python Boys ought to have something to say about
it?

Eric Idle is going to be at my favorite Borders bookstore in half an
hour. Should I go ask him? (I'm not going to do that; it's just an odd
coincidence from my point of view.)

I think there are trademark issues similar to the Apple vs Apple ones.
Perhaps we would have to promise them not to have a sense of humor.

mt

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Re: proposed Python logo

 Sorry dude, but it looks like a hairdryer!

I'm afraid you have a point :-/ .

 I think that the current logo is fine. Much more professional than the old 
 image.

Yes, it is a MUCH more professional rendering than the old image, and
it leaves a MUCH better first impression of the homepage.

That said, and conceding that the first impression is positive, I don't
see how it represents Python. More to the point, the longer I look at
it the less I like it, and I would NOT wear it on a T-shirt.

 The + formation is positive enough, and it has a yin-yang
 feel to it which to me conjures up the image of balance, not
 divisiveness.

Both the cross and the yin-yang have religious associations, which will
be positive for some and negative for others but will certainly be
unrepresentative of what Python is. This would be a great logo for
Taoist Christians, if such a group exists.

How is Python about balance? It is about abstraction, composition,
the whole greater than the parts, yes, but there's nothing there that
really draws on duality. So the whole two-ness of the thing is one of
the parts that disturbs me.

mt

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Re: proposed Python logo

 Not that I'm disagreeing, but how to you rate resonance with the product?

Hmm, I'm not a marketing professional, but this is would I would do
with my focus groups:

Ask people familar with the product to name what they like about the
image, and what they like about the product, and look for analogies
between them. Ask them what they dislike about the image and the
product, and minimize overlap.

(The main thing I dislike about Python is that the documentation is too
sketchy. It's very unclear what the official logo represents. So
another strike against it; it reminds me of the confusion I often face
on making use of an unfamiliar module.)

Ask people who are unfamiliar with the product who are potential users
what they have heard good and bad about the product, and its strengths
and weaknesses compared to its competition. Compare with their
impressions of the logo.

I am my own focus group, but people who are following this thread can
simply show the existing logo to people and ask for their impressions.
Try showing it (without the text) to non-Pythonista programmers, who
probably haven't seen python.org lately, without telling them what it
represents. See what their associations are.

I've already explained my negative associations with the official logo,
and some of the positive ones of my prototype alternative. See the post
that started this thread and the thread it links to.

The best snake-and-language logos I have seen are the Twisted-Matrix
one and the PyCon one. But I think my idea can be developed too. I
think the colon as snake-eyes thing is a big win. We would think
affectionately of the snake every time we type the unnecessary colon.

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Re: proposed Python logo

 Eric Idle is going to be at my favorite Borders bookstore in half an
 hour. Should I go ask him? (I'm not going to do that; it's just an odd
 coincidence from my point of view.)

Speaking of coincidences, you might ask him if Python's Integrated
Development Environment is named after him.  ;

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Re: proposed Python logo

2006-04-21 Thread A.M. Kuchling

On 21 Apr 2006 09:17:52 -0700, 
BartlebyScrivener [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I'd like some variation of http://tinyurl.com/gj74k used as a logo.
 That has real potential, but I bet it's trademarked.

It's taken from a Renaissance painting
(http://witcombe.sbc.edu/davincicode/bronzino-allegory.html -- NSFW,
if your workplace is dumb), so the foot itself shouldn't be
trademarked; its use alongside the word Python might conceivably be.

--amk

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Re: proposed Python logo

On 2006-04-21, Michael Tobis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 (The main thing I dislike about Python is that the documentation is too
 sketchy.

Well, Monty Python was a pretty sketchy show...

[sorry]

 The best snake-and-language logos I have seen are the Twisted-Matrix
 one and the PyCon one.

Sincy Python wasn't named after the snake, why the insistence
on using a snake in the logo?

 But I think my idea can be developed too. I think the colon as
 snake-eyes thing is a big win. We would think affectionately
 of the snake every time we type the unnecessary colon.

I think something Monty Python related would be better.  How
about a nice can of spam?

I doubt our friends in Austin would like that idea.  OTOH,
there is a Monty Python spam, spam, spam, spam display in the
spam museum (which is actually much more interesting than you
might think).

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Re: proposed Python logo

2006-04-21 Thread Tim Parkin

Michael Tobis wrote:

That said, and conceding that the first impression is positive, I don't
see how it represents Python. More to the point, the longer I look at
it the less I like it, and I would NOT wear it on a T-shirt.

over 25 people disagree with you so far and thats without any
advertising whatsoever (and it's an older version of the logo) because
you can get T-Shirts from cafepress.com/pydotorg and any profits go to
the psf.

I'll add the new logo over the weekend.

The + formation is positive enough, and it has a yin-yang
feel to it which to me conjures up the image of balance, not
divisiveness.

Both the cross and the yin-yang have religious associations, which will
be positive for some and negative for others but will certainly be
unrepresentative of what Python is. This would be a great logo for
Taoist Christians, if such a group exists.

How is Python about balance? It is about abstraction, composition,
the whole greater than the parts, yes, but there's nothing there that
really draws on duality. So the whole two-ness of the thing is one of
the parts that disturbs me.

They're freindly snakes at a tadpole fancy dress competition having a
'cuddle'. Where do you think Python eggs come from...

Tim Parkin

p.s. the logo is actually based on mayan representations of snakes which
very often represent only the head and perhaps a short length of tail.
The structure of the snake representations the natural coiling/nesting
of a snake as seen side on.. The following image shows a similar
representation (we have a snake house nearby which makes it easier to
observe behaviour)

http://www.xcalak.info/images/florafauna/fer_de_lance_l.jpg

The mesoamerican calendar also represents snake heads in a similar manner.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzolkin

The abstraction of the snake design used in mayan culture seemed
non-denominational enough to only raise contrived objections. The shapes
used (cross/spiral/yin-yang) are also primitive enough that there will
always be connotations that can be derived.

http://www.alovelyworld.com/webhon/gimage/hdu011.jpg

http://www.khoahoc.com.vn/photos/Image/2005/11/16/maya-snake.jpg

http://www.xcalak.info/images/florafauna/fer_de_lance_l.jpg

The two headed snake was also an influence on the design

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bjayatil/British%20Museum%20%20London/slides/17-aztec_snake.html

which is also a common 'meme' in many continents, including africa

http://www.sfu.ca/archaeology/museum/ndi/cam5.jpg

And I'd like to see you tell a civil war soldier that it looks like his
trousers are held up by a two headed tadpole

http://www.civilwarrelics.com/museum/graphics/Frame25a.JPG

If you look carefully at the logo, you will also see an indian symbol of
peace.. (I'll leave this one alone as it can also mean something else).

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Re: proposed Python logo

 (and it's an older version of the logo) because
 you can get T-Shirts from cafepress.com/pydotorg and any profits go to
 the psf.

I just ordered some stuff from cafe press, are you saying I'm getting
an old version of the logo?

rick

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Re: proposed Python logo

2006-04-21 Thread Tim Parkin

BartlebyScrivener wrote:
(and it's an older version of the logo) because
you can get T-Shirts from cafepress.com/pydotorg and any profits go to
the psf.
 
 
 I just ordered some stuff from cafe press, are you saying I'm getting
 an old version of the logo?
 

An alternate 'collectors' rendition of the new logo as used by Guido Van
Rossum in his recent New York Google presentations and also as on
t-shirts, mugs and flags handed out during EuroPython 2005!

Tim Parkin

p.s. was that good enough spin for you ;-)
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Re: proposed Python logo

A more Monty sort of Python logo would be fine with me. A flying sheep
perhaps? An exploding penguin? A giant hedgehog? A dog license with the
word dog crossed out and cat written in crayon? A great big book on
how to put your budgie down?

This http://www.informatik.uni-trier.de/~roth/bilder/mpfc/GUMBY3.JPG
chap?

I'm not sure that conveys the intended gravitas to the corporate
community, though.

mt

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Re: proposed Python logo

On 2006-04-21, Michael Tobis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 This http://www.informatik.uni-trier.de/~roth/bilder/mpfc/GUMBY3.JPG
 chap?

 I'm not sure that conveys the intended gravitas to the
 corporate community, though.

Monty Python never was very big on corporate community
gravitas, so that's probably going to be a persistent problem
should one try to find a Monty Pythonesque logo.

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Re: proposed Python logo

2006-04-21 Thread Lawrence D'Oliveiro

In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
 Grant Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Sincy Python wasn't named after the snake, why the insistence
on using a snake in the logo?
...
I think something Monty Python related would be better.  How
about a nice can of spam?

Six words: copyright violation ... trademark violation.
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Re: proposed Python logo

2006-04-21 Thread Lawrence D'Oliveiro

In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
 Michael Tobis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I think the colon as snake-eyes thing is a big win

I liked that bit too. Whatever changes are made, that should be kept.
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Re: proposed Python logo

2006-04-21 Thread Carl J. Van Arsdall

Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
 In article [EMAIL PROTECTED],
  Grant Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

   
 Sincy Python wasn't named after the snake, why the insistence
 on using a snake in the logo?
 
 ...
   
 I think something Monty Python related would be better.  How
 about a nice can of spam?
 

 Six words: copyright violation ... trademark violation.
   

Six? 

Looks more like 4 to me.



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Carl J. Van Arsdall
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Build and Release
MontaVista Software

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Re: proposed Python logo