Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

[Jonathan Moules]

Hi Chris
In my experience use of GIS is intermittent within Local Authorities (I worked 
at one until last year). Going completely FOSS is difficult because, at least 
for county councils and their metropolitan equivalents, every department has 
different needs, and there are often lots of legacy proprietary systems.
Off the top of my head there were three departments that had extensions to 
standard GIS/CAD that they were reliant on:

-   Rights of Way – Proprietary ArcGIS 9.x(!) addon

-   Archaeology - Proprietary MapInfo extension

-   Road Safety – Proprietary AutoCAD extension

There’s also the question – at what point does something start being a GIS? 
Many fields have their own special needs and only include GIS tangentially. For 
example all the below had some GIS-like feature in their bespoke, 
domain-specific software, but it was an after-thought rather than the main 
feature:


-   Highways – custom GIS (reliant on ArcSDE 9.x!)

-   Buses – Integrated GIS in specialist application

-   School admissions – Integrated GIS in specialist application

-   Forestry – Custom GIS/application (couldn’t handle multipart polygons)

-   Bridges – Some WMS integrated in a specialist application.

So in a reasonably sized county council, that’s at least 8 different GIS 
systems that are bespoke. I’d initiated a move towards QGIS before leaving 
(hopefully they’ve kept it up), but QGIS simply isn’t suited to most of those 
tasks.

Web-GIS is slightly different because while there are a few that have developed 
their own (http://maps.warwickshire.gov.uk is one, OpenLayers based front-end, 
GeoServer, but Oracle behind the scenes (it’s what we had), there are 
definitely others but I forget who), generally speaking for most authorities 
it’s cheaper/easier to go with a hosted or pre-developed solution. That said, 
quite a few are now based on Open Source. Astun certainly has it all the way 
down the stack (including PostGIS) for instance.

Short version: Going 100% OS GIS is difficult.

Cheers,
Jonathan


From: qgis-user-boun...@lists.osgeo.org 
[mailto:qgis-user-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Chris Buckmaster
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 10:52 AM
To: qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org
Subject: Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

Hi All

Interesting discussion – I am responsible for GIS at a small local authority in 
the UK; we are an ESRI site but I have seen just how far FOSS4G has come in the 
last couple of years and have now had a proposal accepted to look at migrating 
our ESRI infrastructure over to PostGIS / QGIS / OpenLayers over the next year. 
I’ve been impressed at how efficient FOSS is, and particularly for us where we 
don’t deal with advanced analytics etc, for the tools we need FOSS can provide 
these just as well, if not better in some cases than proprietary offerings.

Does anyone know of any local gov authorities that have gone completely FOSS? 
i.e. built their own web app(s) and are using open source desktop and database 
software?

Chris

From: 
qgis-user-boun...@lists.osgeo.org<mailto:qgis-user-boun...@lists.osgeo.org> 
[mailto:qgis-user-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Andreas Neumann
Sent: 15 June 2015 10:39
To: Micha Silver; qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org<mailto:qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org>
Subject: Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

Hi Micha,

Thanks again for your response. I will discuss this with the devs and will 
probably come up with a proposal, asking for some organizations to join the 
funding.

Andreas
On 15.06.2015 10:28, Micha Silver wrote:
Hi Andreas:

Thanks for your response.
I'm quite sure that for most regional councils here, DXF would not be enough. 
The surveyors and planners that we work with all use Autodesk products. All 
their work is delivered in dwg, and some do not even know that there is such a 
thing as DXF.

I have not been following the Open Design Alliance lately, but including that 
library QGIS would certainly be a quantum leap forward. After Radim's success 
in crowd funding the implementation of GRASS 7, your suggestion indeed sounds 
feasible.

Regards,
Micha

On 6/15/2015 10:28 AM, Andreas Neumann wrote:
Hi Micha,

That is interesting - we invested a lot in the DXF export capabilities of QGIS. 
Once this is finished I am pretty sure we will also look to improve the 
situation regarding the import.

Do you think import of DXF is enough or do we also need DWG support? If so, the 
best bet would probably be the Teigha library from the Open Design Alliance 
(https://www.opendesign.com/the_oda_platform/Teigha), which isn't available for 
free - but it is the library most other GIS (eg. ESRI, Intergraph) and CAD (eg. 
Bentley, Bricscad, etc.) are using. We would have to pay a membership fee, but 
it allows us to redistribute the library with the software. Membership in the 
consortium is affordable in my opinion.

What are your thoughts on this? Would you also be available to help with 

Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

[DelazJ]

Hi,

2015-06-19 15:19 GMT+02:00 Carlos Cerdán :

> Hi there:
>
> As open source philosophy, personal motivation has a big weight. One
> enthusiastic QGIS user can do difference to motivate other GIS users into
> QGIS adventure.
>
> I'm working in a local government for two years and half. It took me
> almost a year convince other that our geodatabase is public and that we had
> to share shapes also, not PDF only (Sorry... life in tropics).
>
> Next step was QGIS. I developed a pilot QGIS course into the office: two
> hours each day, per one week, doing exercises with our own data.
>
> QGIS has new followers over here. The seed is sown.
>
> Here, the main feature that attracts to QGIS is the language so i
> think it'll be great if plugins can be also translated.
>
>
Agree with this, reason why I opened this thread (
http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/qgis-developer/2015-May/037762.html) that
unfortunately doesn't seem to attract the crowds. Any comment, idea or help
is still welcome.

Regards,
DelazJ



> Cheers from Peru
>
> Carlos Cerdán
>
>
>
> 2015-06-19 6:30 GMT-05:00 Bernhard Ströbl :
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I think this is a useful discussion as QGIS is (at least IMHO) the most
>> popular OpenSource GIS in the public sector. From the discussion I
>> understand there are two reasons to not use QGIS as the sole GIS in this
>> context:
>> One are missing features (e.g. missing dwg support). As the discussion
>> shows this can easily be overcome by extending QGIS. Someone needs to
>> coordinate and pay, of course, but if there are enough users in need of
>> this particular feature it will be done. The second reason seems less easy
>> to tackle: A local government has many different tasks related to spatial
>> information: parks, sewage, streets, water bodies, playgrounds, cadastral
>> information etc.. Most administrations lack the knowledge to just take QGIS
>> and model the needed data themselves, instead they are willing to pay some
>> money to a company that does it for them (and I assume this is what ESRI
>> offers with "ArcGIS for Local Government"). But most of these companies are
>> tied to a proprietary GIS software. Maybe it is also the other way round:
>> the adminstration already has a proprietary GIS and looks for someone to
>> implement their needs with it because it is (understandibly) unwilling to
>> introduce another GIS for this particular task.
>> IMHO the situation is as it is because for the overwhelming majority of
>> local government tasks there are no data standards. As soon as data
>> standards exist users are more free to choose the software that addresses
>> their needs, e.g. WMS-Servers. IMHO this makes it hard "to extend QGIS to
>> include more "applied" solutions for local government". There are, however,
>> examples: The Swiss QGEP project implementing the Swiss sewage data
>> standard, the German PostNAS project implementing the German cadastral data
>> standard. For non-stanardized data every user/company is free to model the
>> data according to their specific needs therefore QGIS is probably not the
>> right addressee. Instead the national QGIS user groups could try to
>> standardize their data needs thus making it possible to enhance QGIS to
>> support this "standard", which then would lead to an extension of QGIS.
>>
>> just some more thoughts :)
>>
>> Bernhard
>>
>>
>> Am 18.06.2015 um 08:10 schrieb Steve Golden:
>>
>>> I am glad to have sparked some discussion.  Being a FOSS4G application
>>> forum,
>>> I am not entirely surprised by some of the comments, but all are
>>> appreciated. (sorry upfront, this turned into a long post which perhaps
>>> would be better suited on a blog of some sort)
>>>
>>> I am a bit envious of those individuals who work in the public sector
>>> outside of the U.S. because it seems like there is more acceptance and
>>> directive to use FOSS/FOSS4G as primary applications and not just
>>> something
>>> that you "kick the tires" with.  As for the use of FOSS4G applications in
>>> the States, I think that Randal and others summarized it pretty well (at
>>> least perhaps for the mid-sized cities).  I knew of some cities that were
>>> using Intergraph or MapInfo, but now it is ESRI all the way.  You read
>>> about
>>> some larger government organizations using FOSS for GIS web services,
>>> but my
>>> main focus, at least for this post, is small/mid-sized local government.
>>> ESRI seems to have done a very good sales job with their "ArcGIS for
>>> Local
>>> Government" branding.  And like my original post suggested, if you look
>>> at
>>> all of the tools, apps, and maps that ESRI provides for "free" (yes,
>>> this is
>>> part of the sales propaganda) it makes their product look really good for
>>> local governments might see it as a great GIS entry point or for those
>>> older
>>> systems looking to extend into more web mapping or application
>>> development.
>>> And as others pointed out, there is the reality that you have to have
>>> staff
>>>

[Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

[Gard]

Hi all,
pure example of the use of QGIS, QGISserwer, qgiswebclient and postgis in
spatial planning at the local government in Poland.

www.zgierz.geoportalgminy.pl
www.szadek.geoportalgminy.pl

Anna Woznicka
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Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

[Rodríguez-Vargas, A.]

Congratulations Carlos! That is right and the way!

Ariel Rodríguez-Vargas

On 19.06.2015 08:19, Carlos Cerdán wrote:

Hi there:

As open source philosophy, personal motivation has a big weight. One 
enthusiastic QGIS user can do difference to motivate other GIS users 
into QGIS adventure.


I'm working in a local government for two years and half. It took me 
almost a year convince other that our geodatabase is public and that 
we had to share shapes also, not PDF only (Sorry... life in tropics).


Next step was QGIS. I developed a pilot QGIS course into the office: 
two hours each day, per one week, doing exercises with our own data.


QGIS has new followers over here. The seed is sown.

Here, the main feature that attracts to QGIS is the language so i 
think it'll be great if plugins can be also translated.


Cheers from Peru

Carlos Cerdán


2015-06-19 6:30 GMT-05:00 Bernhard Ströbl >:


Hi all,

I think this is a useful discussion as QGIS is (at least IMHO) the
most popular OpenSource GIS in the public sector. From the
discussion I understand there are two reasons to not use QGIS as
the sole GIS in this context:
One are missing features (e.g. missing dwg support). As the
discussion shows this can easily be overcome by extending QGIS.
Someone needs to coordinate and pay, of course, but if there are
enough users in need of this particular feature it will be done.
The second reason seems less easy to tackle: A local government
has many different tasks related to spatial information: parks,
sewage, streets, water bodies, playgrounds, cadastral information
etc.. Most administrations lack the knowledge to just take QGIS
and model the needed data themselves, instead they are willing to
pay some money to a company that does it for them (and I assume
this is what ESRI offers with "ArcGIS for Local Government"). But
most of these companies are tied to a proprietary GIS software.
Maybe it is also the other way round: the adminstration already
has a proprietary GIS and looks for someone to implement their
needs with it because it is (understandibly) unwilling to
introduce another GIS for this particular task.
IMHO the situation is as it is because for the overwhelming
majority of local government tasks there are no data standards. As
soon as data standards exist users are more free to choose the
software that addresses their needs, e.g. WMS-Servers. IMHO this
makes it hard "to extend QGIS to include more "applied" solutions
for local government". There are, however, examples: The Swiss
QGEP project implementing the Swiss sewage data standard, the
German PostNAS project implementing the German cadastral data
standard. For non-stanardized data every user/company is free to
model the data according to their specific needs therefore QGIS is
probably not the right addressee. Instead the national QGIS user
groups could try to standardize their data needs thus making it
possible to enhance QGIS to support this "standard", which then
would lead to an extension of QGIS.

just some more thoughts :)

Bernhard


Am 18.06.2015 um 08:10 schrieb Steve Golden:

I am glad to have sparked some discussion.  Being a FOSS4G
application forum,
I am not entirely surprised by some of the comments, but all are
appreciated. (sorry upfront, this turned into a long post
which perhaps
would be better suited on a blog of some sort)

I am a bit envious of those individuals who work in the public
sector
outside of the U.S. because it seems like there is more
acceptance and
directive to use FOSS/FOSS4G as primary applications and not
just something
that you "kick the tires" with.  As for the use of FOSS4G
applications in
the States, I think that Randal and others summarized it
pretty well (at
least perhaps for the mid-sized cities).  I knew of some
cities that were
using Intergraph or MapInfo, but now it is ESRI all the way. 
You read about

some larger government organizations using FOSS for GIS web
services, but my
main focus, at least for this post, is small/mid-sized local
government.
ESRI seems to have done a very good sales job with their
"ArcGIS for Local
Government" branding.  And like my original post suggested, if
you look at
all of the tools, apps, and maps that ESRI provides for "free"
(yes, this is
part of the sales propaganda) it makes their product look
really good for
local governments might see it as a great GIS entry point or
for those older
systems looking to extend into more web mapping or application
development.
And as others pointed out, there is

Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

[Carlos Cerdán]

Hi there:

As open source philosophy, personal motivation has a big weight. One
enthusiastic QGIS user can do difference to motivate other GIS users into
QGIS adventure.

I'm working in a local government for two years and half. It took me almost
a year convince other that our geodatabase is public and that we had to
share shapes also, not PDF only (Sorry... life in tropics).

Next step was QGIS. I developed a pilot QGIS course into the office: two
hours each day, per one week, doing exercises with our own data.

QGIS has new followers over here. The seed is sown.

Here, the main feature that attracts to QGIS is the language so i think
it'll be great if plugins can be also translated.

Cheers from Peru

Carlos Cerdán


2015-06-19 6:30 GMT-05:00 Bernhard Ströbl :

> Hi all,
>
> I think this is a useful discussion as QGIS is (at least IMHO) the most
> popular OpenSource GIS in the public sector. From the discussion I
> understand there are two reasons to not use QGIS as the sole GIS in this
> context:
> One are missing features (e.g. missing dwg support). As the discussion
> shows this can easily be overcome by extending QGIS. Someone needs to
> coordinate and pay, of course, but if there are enough users in need of
> this particular feature it will be done. The second reason seems less easy
> to tackle: A local government has many different tasks related to spatial
> information: parks, sewage, streets, water bodies, playgrounds, cadastral
> information etc.. Most administrations lack the knowledge to just take QGIS
> and model the needed data themselves, instead they are willing to pay some
> money to a company that does it for them (and I assume this is what ESRI
> offers with "ArcGIS for Local Government"). But most of these companies are
> tied to a proprietary GIS software. Maybe it is also the other way round:
> the adminstration already has a proprietary GIS and looks for someone to
> implement their needs with it because it is (understandibly) unwilling to
> introduce another GIS for this particular task.
> IMHO the situation is as it is because for the overwhelming majority of
> local government tasks there are no data standards. As soon as data
> standards exist users are more free to choose the software that addresses
> their needs, e.g. WMS-Servers. IMHO this makes it hard "to extend QGIS to
> include more "applied" solutions for local government". There are, however,
> examples: The Swiss QGEP project implementing the Swiss sewage data
> standard, the German PostNAS project implementing the German cadastral data
> standard. For non-stanardized data every user/company is free to model the
> data according to their specific needs therefore QGIS is probably not the
> right addressee. Instead the national QGIS user groups could try to
> standardize their data needs thus making it possible to enhance QGIS to
> support this "standard", which then would lead to an extension of QGIS.
>
> just some more thoughts :)
>
> Bernhard
>
>
> Am 18.06.2015 um 08:10 schrieb Steve Golden:
>
>> I am glad to have sparked some discussion.  Being a FOSS4G application
>> forum,
>> I am not entirely surprised by some of the comments, but all are
>> appreciated. (sorry upfront, this turned into a long post which perhaps
>> would be better suited on a blog of some sort)
>>
>> I am a bit envious of those individuals who work in the public sector
>> outside of the U.S. because it seems like there is more acceptance and
>> directive to use FOSS/FOSS4G as primary applications and not just
>> something
>> that you "kick the tires" with.  As for the use of FOSS4G applications in
>> the States, I think that Randal and others summarized it pretty well (at
>> least perhaps for the mid-sized cities).  I knew of some cities that were
>> using Intergraph or MapInfo, but now it is ESRI all the way.  You read
>> about
>> some larger government organizations using FOSS for GIS web services, but
>> my
>> main focus, at least for this post, is small/mid-sized local government.
>> ESRI seems to have done a very good sales job with their "ArcGIS for Local
>> Government" branding.  And like my original post suggested, if you look at
>> all of the tools, apps, and maps that ESRI provides for "free" (yes, this
>> is
>> part of the sales propaganda) it makes their product look really good for
>> local governments might see it as a great GIS entry point or for those
>> older
>> systems looking to extend into more web mapping or application
>> development.
>> And as others pointed out, there is the reality that you have to have
>> staff
>> that are knowledgeable in open source and/or willing to figure things out.
>> Maybe things will change over time, but the majority of people working in
>> GIS learned with commercial software and probably haven't had the
>> opportunity or need to look beyond what they know best and are comfortable
>> with.
>>
>> Strange as it may seem, I work in local government in the Bay Area, CA
>> (i.e.
>> Silicon Valle

Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

[Bernhard Ströbl]

Hi all,

I think this is a useful discussion as QGIS is (at least IMHO) the most 
popular OpenSource GIS in the public sector. From the discussion I 
understand there are two reasons to not use QGIS as the sole GIS in this 
context:
One are missing features (e.g. missing dwg support). As the discussion 
shows this can easily be overcome by extending QGIS. Someone needs to 
coordinate and pay, of course, but if there are enough users in need of 
this particular feature it will be done. The second reason seems less 
easy to tackle: A local government has many different tasks related to 
spatial information: parks, sewage, streets, water bodies, playgrounds, 
cadastral information etc.. Most administrations lack the knowledge to 
just take QGIS and model the needed data themselves, instead they are 
willing to pay some money to a company that does it for them (and I 
assume this is what ESRI offers with "ArcGIS for Local Government"). But 
most of these companies are tied to a proprietary GIS software. Maybe it 
is also the other way round: the adminstration already has a proprietary 
GIS and looks for someone to implement their needs with it because it is 
(understandibly) unwilling to introduce another GIS for this particular 
task.
IMHO the situation is as it is because for the overwhelming majority of 
local government tasks there are no data standards. As soon as data 
standards exist users are more free to choose the software that 
addresses their needs, e.g. WMS-Servers. IMHO this makes it hard "to 
extend QGIS to include more "applied" solutions for local government". 
There are, however, examples: The Swiss QGEP project implementing the 
Swiss sewage data standard, the German PostNAS project implementing the 
German cadastral data standard. For non-stanardized data every 
user/company is free to model the data according to their specific needs 
therefore QGIS is probably not the right addressee. Instead the national 
QGIS user groups could try to standardize their data needs thus making 
it possible to enhance QGIS to support this "standard", which then would 
lead to an extension of QGIS.


just some more thoughts :)

Bernhard

Am 18.06.2015 um 08:10 schrieb Steve Golden:

I am glad to have sparked some discussion.  Being a FOSS4G application forum,
I am not entirely surprised by some of the comments, but all are
appreciated. (sorry upfront, this turned into a long post which perhaps
would be better suited on a blog of some sort)

I am a bit envious of those individuals who work in the public sector
outside of the U.S. because it seems like there is more acceptance and
directive to use FOSS/FOSS4G as primary applications and not just something
that you "kick the tires" with.  As for the use of FOSS4G applications in
the States, I think that Randal and others summarized it pretty well (at
least perhaps for the mid-sized cities).  I knew of some cities that were
using Intergraph or MapInfo, but now it is ESRI all the way.  You read about
some larger government organizations using FOSS for GIS web services, but my
main focus, at least for this post, is small/mid-sized local government.
ESRI seems to have done a very good sales job with their "ArcGIS for Local
Government" branding.  And like my original post suggested, if you look at
all of the tools, apps, and maps that ESRI provides for "free" (yes, this is
part of the sales propaganda) it makes their product look really good for
local governments might see it as a great GIS entry point or for those older
systems looking to extend into more web mapping or application development.
And as others pointed out, there is the reality that you have to have staff
that are knowledgeable in open source and/or willing to figure things out.
Maybe things will change over time, but the majority of people working in
GIS learned with commercial software and probably haven't had the
opportunity or need to look beyond what they know best and are comfortable
with.

Strange as it may seem, I work in local government in the Bay Area, CA (i.e.
Silicon Valley) and like Randal stated and as far as I can tell, most of the
local governments look around at one another and if one city has a working
solution, the others pretty much duplicate with some variations (not
necessary a bad idea as long as you duplicate an intelligent solution).
When I talk GIS to staff at other cities, people generally want to discuss
the latest tools and functions in ArcGIS.  At times I've tried to encourage
others to look outside the box, but I generally get a chilling look or
responses as if they don't have a clue that there are other technologies out
there.  However, I also think there are a lot of mid-manager, non-GIS,
non-technical individuals that are leading cities, control the budgets and
staffing and don't really know anything except for what the majority of
cities are using and what is advertized to them.  And like another poster
stated, a lot of managers are more comfortable spending a bunch

Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

[Brent Wood]

See the DMS Intramaps product - Postgis/Mapserver/QGIS stack plus Intramaps web 
viewer, & supports SQL Server instead of Postgis if required,  

Being well received among smaller councils in New Zealand, and even some large 
government agencies. 

http://mapsolutions.com.au/

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Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

[Steve Golden]

I am glad to have sparked some discussion.  Being a FOSS4G application forum,
I am not entirely surprised by some of the comments, but all are
appreciated. (sorry upfront, this turned into a long post which perhaps
would be better suited on a blog of some sort)

I am a bit envious of those individuals who work in the public sector
outside of the U.S. because it seems like there is more acceptance and
directive to use FOSS/FOSS4G as primary applications and not just something
that you "kick the tires" with.  As for the use of FOSS4G applications in
the States, I think that Randal and others summarized it pretty well (at
least perhaps for the mid-sized cities).  I knew of some cities that were
using Intergraph or MapInfo, but now it is ESRI all the way.  You read about
some larger government organizations using FOSS for GIS web services, but my
main focus, at least for this post, is small/mid-sized local government. 
ESRI seems to have done a very good sales job with their "ArcGIS for Local
Government" branding.  And like my original post suggested, if you look at
all of the tools, apps, and maps that ESRI provides for "free" (yes, this is
part of the sales propaganda) it makes their product look really good for
local governments might see it as a great GIS entry point or for those older
systems looking to extend into more web mapping or application development. 
And as others pointed out, there is the reality that you have to have staff
that are knowledgeable in open source and/or willing to figure things out. 
Maybe things will change over time, but the majority of people working in
GIS learned with commercial software and probably haven't had the
opportunity or need to look beyond what they know best and are comfortable
with. 

Strange as it may seem, I work in local government in the Bay Area, CA (i.e.
Silicon Valley) and like Randal stated and as far as I can tell, most of the
local governments look around at one another and if one city has a working
solution, the others pretty much duplicate with some variations (not
necessary a bad idea as long as you duplicate an intelligent solution). 
When I talk GIS to staff at other cities, people generally want to discuss
the latest tools and functions in ArcGIS.  At times I've tried to encourage
others to look outside the box, but I generally get a chilling look or
responses as if they don't have a clue that there are other technologies out
there.  However, I also think there are a lot of mid-manager, non-GIS,
non-technical individuals that are leading cities, control the budgets and
staffing and don't really know anything except for what the majority of
cities are using and what is advertized to them.  And like another poster
stated, a lot of managers are more comfortable spending a bunch of money on
a commercial solution that is advertised to work.  Paul Ramsey has some
great  presentations    that
speaks more to this which I can't agree more.

It seems to me and others (based on comments in this thread and across the
net), that the FOSS4G solutions (QGIS probably leading the way in desktop
GIS) have evolved and are starting to replace commercial providers like
ESRI.  If you follow ESRI products, you've probably seen the changes to try
to include more "free" functions, tools, and access to certain data formats
to keep up with the FOSS4G counterparts.  But alas, they are doing more to
lock in their customers with the ESRI centric data specifications/formats
and online user accounts which is leading to some consternation, well maybe
a  revolt

 
.

While the foundation of my initial post (and even this one) is a little ESRI
bashing (even though that the organization that I work for primarily uses it
and is looking to sink further into it), and pondering the more wide spread
use of FOSS4G, what my real aim was to understand if there was anyone
looking to extend QGIS to include more "applied" solutions for local
government.  I hate to think that replicating exactly what commercial
providers are doing is the right thing to do, but I wonder even though QGIS
has matured greatly over the past few years, and there are now supported
open stacks of FOSS4G applications like OpenGeo and consulting firms who are
providing support for QGIS, if there is something missing to make QGIS an
easier entry point for a GIS software solution for local governments?  I
suppose if there are more individuals who are willing to share map
templates, customizations of QGIS, workflow processes, etc and if these were
aggregated in some manner, then perhaps it would be a start.  I suppose in
the global use of QGIS, what does local government mean and what does it do? 
Solutions might need to be sub-divided by country or region. 

Well, just some more thoughts...

Steve



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Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

[Joseph Sloop]

​Bernhard Ströbl asked me to elaborate on why I said, "it would be
unrealistic to say we could ever be a 100% QGIS."

So, here is my elaboration for what it is worth...Please keep in mind, I
would love for us to use a 100% FOSS/ QGIS...


   - Integration with 3rd party systems (Work Order Systems, Dispatch, etc.)
   - Webmaps - currently many departments use ArcGIS Online for data
   collection via tablets, webmaps in general etc...
   - Cadastral mapping function (I could have just missed this plugin, if I
   did someone please point me in the right direction) which allows mapping
   straight lines and curves
   - IT support and education is lacking in our shop...we are working on
   this education currently
   - I think this item is very important...at least in our shop, I have no
  permissions on my computer, so it goes back to proving ROI, etc. to upper
  management and IT departments


I hope this helps...

Joseph



On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 7:52 AM, Randal Hale <
rjh...@northrivergeographic.com> wrote:

>  If I could chip in - one of my clients is a large industrial client. They
> have two sides of their "mapping" group - Autocad and ESRI. Then I show up
> : ).
>
> They use the DWG format - in fact most of my clients that have autocad
> capability will send me DWG and when I go "hey could you convert that to
> dxf" there is a general groan. So - I pop open arcgis and convert. Now that
> I think about it I've never tried converting data from dwg to shape or back
> to dwg with gdal. I don't know if that is even possible (I need to look).
> TN's department of Transportation runs a healthy mix of
> ESRI/AutoCAD/Microstation (I think) but as far as a know no open source
> anything. I get the question of "What about DWG?" more than I care to
> mention.
>
> Having DWG capabilites would be a huge gain for QGIS (I think).
>
> Anyway - my unsolicited .02 cents worth.
>
> Randy
>
> On 06/15/2015 03:28 AM, Andreas Neumann wrote:
>
> Hi Micha,
>
> That is interesting - we invested a lot in the DXF export capabilities of
> QGIS. Once this is finished I am pretty sure we will also look to improve
> the situation regarding the import.
>
> Do you think import of DXF is enough or do we also need DWG support? If
> so, the best bet would probably be the Teigha library from the Open Design
> Alliance (https://www.opendesign.com/the_oda_platform/Teigha), which
> isn't available for free - but it is the library most other GIS (eg. ESRI,
> Intergraph) and CAD (eg. Bentley, Bricscad, etc.) are using. We would have
> to pay a membership fee, but it allows us to redistribute the library with
> the software. Membership in the consortium is affordable in my opinion.
>
> What are your thoughts on this? Would you also be available to help with a
> crowd-funding effort? Do you see options besides Teigha?
>
> Andreas
>
> On 15.06.2015 08:57, Micha Silver wrote:
>
>
>
> On 06/15/2015 09:23 AM, Bernhard Ströbl wrote:
>
> Hi Joseph,
>
> could you elaborate why "it would be unrealistic to say we
> could ever be a 100% QGIS"? I am curious because I lost contact with ESRI
> products a couple years ago.
>
>
> From our point of view, we need support for dwg. That side of vendor
> lock-in is, unfortunately, even stronger that the ties to ESRI. So we stay
> with Arc* not because of the GIS capabilites, but more or less only because
> of the ability to read Autocad plans and surveys.
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Qgis-user mailing 
> listQgis-user@lists.osgeo.orghttp://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
>
>
>
>
> ___
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>
>
> --
> -
> Randal Hale
> North River Geographic Systems, 
> Inchttp://www.northrivergeographic.com423.653.3611 
> rjh...@northrivergeographic.com
> twitter:rjhale 
> http://about.me/rjhalehttp://www.northrivergeographic.com/introduction-to-quantum-gis
> Southeast OSGEO: http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Southeast_US
>
>
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> Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
>



-- 

_

Joseph Sloop

PhD Candidate

University of North Carolina at Greensboro

Department of Geography

jbsl...@uncg.edu
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Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

[Goyo]

> Do you think import of DXF is enough or do we also need DWG support? If so,
> the best bet would probably be the Teigha library from the Open Design
> Alliance (https://www.opendesign.com/the_oda_platform/Teigha), which isn't
> available for free - but it is the library most other GIS (eg. ESRI,
> Intergraph) and CAD (eg. Bentley, Bricscad, etc.) are using. We would have
> to pay a membership fee, but it allows us to redistribute the library with
> the software. Membership in the consortium is affordable in my opinion.

I've been using the Teigha file converter GUI with good results. I've
never used the CLI but I guess it could be used by a python plugin or
processing tool.

Goyo
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Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

[Matthew Syphus]

I work for a small public entity that helps all local governments with their 
road networks.  I am the one-man GIS/Database/Website/assorted-technical-needs 
department for our agency and deal with many local government GIS personnel as 
well as several state GIS entities.  Let me summarize what I've seen:

Our own (small public agency) GIS
Started with only basic ArcGIS desktop license, skipped upgrading to a (needed) 
ArcEditor license due to cost.  Went all open source for database and web 
services.  QGIS is used to manipulate all the PostGIS data as ArcGIS cannot 
reliably connect, but we use both.

Local government GIS
Many don't have any GIS personnel and probably would not know to consider open 
source.  Others are on commercial options, ESRI the easy leader.

State agency GIS
These are overwhelmingly ESRI shops.  The state negotiated an enterprise ArcGIS 
Online deal.  As a result, many less technical and non-GIS employees in various 
state departments are using ESRI products.

Some Observations/Opinions
- Many I deal with are not aware of open source GIS options.
- If you want a full "turnkey GIS solution", commercial (esp. ESRI) seems the 
only consistent option, though open source GIS is making strides.
- ArcGIS Online is becoming more attractive as it gets more capable and billing 
more simplified.
- Open source can handle most small to medium needs very well out of the box.
- Large integrated open source GIS stacks are harder to sell for "free" because 
of the effort, expertise, or time required (real or perceived) to tap into it. 
Capital expenses seem more easily justified than an employee.
- Good documentation is always needed.
- Commercial support is nice, but small shops may be flexible enough to go 
without, especially if they routinely search online for answers.
- Someone who likes to "figure it out" and "make it work" is necessary for an 
open source stack.
- In the end, most small governments are looking for a product that "just 
works" with minimal fuss, even for more money.  Some individual open source 
products have arrived at this stage, but not all pieces or integrations have.
- Commercial is the default mindset for GIS around here: "Where do we buy GIS 
software?" instead of "What GIS options are out there?"
- Configuring wins over customizing.

Matthew


From: qgis-user-boun...@lists.osgeo.org [qgis-user-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] on 
behalf of Chris Buckmaster [chris.buckmas...@runnymede.gov.uk]
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 3:51 AM
To: qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org
Subject: Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

Hi All

Interesting discussion – I am responsible for GIS at a small local authority in 
the UK; we are an ESRI site but I have seen just how far FOSS4G has come in the 
last couple of years and have now had a proposal accepted to look at migrating 
our ESRI infrastructure over to PostGIS / QGIS / OpenLayers over the next year. 
I’ve been impressed at how efficient FOSS is, and particularly for us where we 
don’t deal with advanced analytics etc, for the tools we need FOSS can provide 
these just as well, if not better in some cases than proprietary offerings.

Does anyone know of any local gov authorities that have gone completely FOSS? 
i.e. built their own web app(s) and are using open source desktop and database 
software?

Chris

From: qgis-user-boun...@lists.osgeo.org 
[mailto:qgis-user-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Andreas Neumann
Sent: 15 June 2015 10:39
To: Micha Silver; qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org
Subject: Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

Hi Micha,

Thanks again for your response. I will discuss this with the devs and will 
probably come up with a proposal, asking for some organizations to join the 
funding.

Andreas
On 15.06.2015 10:28, Micha Silver wrote:
Hi Andreas:

Thanks for your response.
I'm quite sure that for most regional councils here, DXF would not be enough. 
The surveyors and planners that we work with all use Autodesk products. All 
their work is delivered in dwg, and some do not even know that there is such a 
thing as DXF.

I have not been following the Open Design Alliance lately, but including that 
library QGIS would certainly be a quantum leap forward. After Radim's success 
in crowd funding the implementation of GRASS 7, your suggestion indeed sounds 
feasible.

Regards,
Micha

On 6/15/2015 10:28 AM, Andreas Neumann wrote:
Hi Micha,

That is interesting - we invested a lot in the DXF export capabilities of QGIS. 
Once this is finished I am pretty sure we will also look to improve the 
situation regarding the import.

Do you think import of DXF is enough or do we also need DWG support? If so, the 
best bet would probably be the Teigha library from the Open Design Alliance 
(https://www.opendesign.com/the_oda_platform/Teigha), which isn't available for 
free - but it is the library most other GIS 

Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

[Brent Wood]

While I can't help in the UK, Digital Mapping Solutions in Australia & New 
Zealand sell & support a council GIS system based on QGIS, mapserver & 
Postgis/SQL Server. They may be able to provide some comments?
http://www.mapsolutions.co.nz/

(I don't work for them, but do use them for our QGIS training.)

Brent Wood
  From: Chris Buckmaster 
 To: "qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org"  
 Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 9:51 PM
 Subject: Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS
   
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div.yiv6982424574WordSection1 {}#yiv6982424574 Hi All    Interesting discussion 
– I am responsible for GIS at a small local authority in the UK; we are an ESRI 
site but I have seen just how far FOSS4G has come in the last couple of years 
and have now had a proposal accepted to look at migrating our ESRI 
infrastructure over to PostGIS / QGIS / OpenLayers over the next year. I’ve 
been impressed at how efficient FOSS is, and particularly for us where we don’t 
deal with advanced analytics etc, for the tools we need FOSS can provide these 
just as well, if not better in some cases than proprietary offerings.    Does 
anyone know of any local gov authorities that have gone completely FOSS? i.e. 
built their own web app(s) and are using open source desktop and database 
software?    Chris    

From: qgis-user-boun...@lists.osgeo.org 
[mailto:qgis-user-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Andreas Neumann
Sent: 15 June 2015 10:39
To: Micha Silver; qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org
Subject: Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS    Hi Micha,

Thanks again for your response. I will discuss this with the devs and will 
probably come up with a proposal, asking for some organizations to join the 
funding.

Andreas On 15.06.2015 10:28, Micha Silver wrote: 
Hi Andreas:

Thanks for your response.
I'm quite sure that for most regional councils here, DXF would not be enough. 
The surveyors and planners that we work with all use Autodesk products. All 
their work is delivered in dwg, and some do not even know that there is such a 
thing as DXF.

I have not been following the Open Design Alliance lately, but including that 
library QGIS would certainly be a quantum leap forward. After Radim's success 
in crowd funding the implementation of GRASS 7, your suggestion indeed sounds 
feasible.

Regards,
Micha

On 6/15/2015 10:28 AM, Andreas Neumann wrote: 
Hi Micha,

That is interesting - we invested a lot in the DXF export capabilities of QGIS. 
Once this is finished I am pretty sure we will also look to improve the 
situation regarding the import.

Do you think import of DXF is enough or do we also need DWG support? If so, the 
best bet would probably be the Teigha library from the Open Design Alliance 
(https://www.opendesign.com/the_oda_platform/Teigha), which isn't available for 
free - but it is the library most other GIS (eg. ESRI, Intergraph) and CAD (eg. 
Bentley, Bricscad, etc.) are using. We would have to pay a membership fee, but 
it allows us to redistribute the library with the software. Membership in the 
consortium is affordable in my opinion.

What are your thoughts on this? Would you also be available to help with a 
crowd-funding effort? Do you see options besides Teigha?

Andreas On 15.06.2015 08:57, Micha Silver wrote: 
   On 06/15/2015 09:23 AM, Bernhard Ströbl wrote: 
Hi Joseph, 

could you elaborate why "it would be unrealistic to say we 
could ever be a 100% QGIS"? I am curious because I lost contact with ESRI 
products a couple years ago. 

>From our point of view, we need support for dwg. That side of vendor lock-in 
>is, unfortunately, even stronger that the ties to ESRI. So we stay with Arc* 
>not because of the GIS capabilites, but more or less only because of the 
>ability to read Autocad plans and surveys.





 

Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

[Paolo Cavallini]

> On 6/15/2015 10:28 AM, Andreas Neumann wrote:

>> That is interesting - we invested a lot in the DXF export capabilities
>> of QGIS. Once this is finished I am pretty sure we will also look to
>> improve the situation regarding the import.
>>
>> Do you think import of DXF is enough or do we also need DWG support?
>> If so, the best bet would probably be the Teigha library from the Open
>> Design Alliance (https://www.opendesign.com/the_oda_platform/Teigha),
>> which isn't available for free - but it is the library most other GIS
>> (eg. ESRI, Intergraph) and CAD (eg. Bentley, Bricscad, etc.) are
>> using. We would have to pay a membership fee, but it allows us to
>> redistribute the library with the software. Membership in the
>> consortium is affordable in my opinion.
>>
>> What are your thoughts on this? Would you also be available to help
>> with a crowd-funding effort? Do you see options besides Teigha?
>>
>> Andreas

Hi Andreas,
that sounds like an excellent idea.
Thanks for this!

-- 
Paolo Cavallini - www.faunalia.eu
QGIS & PostGIS courses: http://www.faunalia.eu/training.html
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Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

[Randal Hale]

If I could chip in - one of my clients is a large industrial client. 
They have two sides of their "mapping" group - Autocad and ESRI. Then I 
show up : ).


They use the DWG format - in fact most of my clients that have autocad 
capability will send me DWG and when I go "hey could you convert that to 
dxf" there is a general groan. So - I pop open arcgis and convert. Now 
that I think about it I've never tried converting data from dwg to shape 
or back to dwg with gdal. I don't know if that is even possible (I need 
to look). TN's department of Transportation runs a healthy mix of 
ESRI/AutoCAD/Microstation (I think) but as far as a know no open source 
anything. I get the question of "What about DWG?" more than I care to 
mention.


Having DWG capabilites would be a huge gain for QGIS (I think).

Anyway - my unsolicited .02 cents worth.

Randy

On 06/15/2015 03:28 AM, Andreas Neumann wrote:

Hi Micha,

That is interesting - we invested a lot in the DXF export capabilities 
of QGIS. Once this is finished I am pretty sure we will also look to 
improve the situation regarding the import.


Do you think import of DXF is enough or do we also need DWG support? 
If so, the best bet would probably be the Teigha library from the Open 
Design Alliance (https://www.opendesign.com/the_oda_platform/Teigha), 
which isn't available for free - but it is the library most other GIS 
(eg. ESRI, Intergraph) and CAD (eg. Bentley, Bricscad, etc.) are 
using. We would have to pay a membership fee, but it allows us to 
redistribute the library with the software. Membership in the 
consortium is affordable in my opinion.


What are your thoughts on this? Would you also be available to help 
with a crowd-funding effort? Do you see options besides Teigha?


Andreas

On 15.06.2015 08:57, Micha Silver wrote:



On 06/15/2015 09:23 AM, Bernhard Ströbl wrote:

Hi Joseph,

could you elaborate why "it would be unrealistic to say we
could ever be a 100% QGIS"? I am curious because I lost contact with 
ESRI products a couple years ago.




From our point of view, we need support for dwg. That side of vendor 
lock-in is, unfortunately, even stronger that the ties to ESRI. So we 
stay with Arc* not because of the GIS capabilites, but more or less 
only because of the ability to read Autocad plans and surveys.





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--
-
Randal Hale
North River Geographic Systems, Inc
http://www.northrivergeographic.com
423.653.3611 rjh...@northrivergeographic.com
twitter:rjhale http://about.me/rjhale
http://www.northrivergeographic.com/introduction-to-quantum-gis
Southeast OSGEO: http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Southeast_US

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Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

[Saber Razmjooei]

Hi Chris,

 

There are several local authority in the UK who have been migrating to FOSS 
GIS. QGIS and other open source GIS are more than capable of fulfilling most of 
GIS users’ requirements. But if the transition to OS GIS is planned properly 
the changes will not be too sudden and will not affect day-to-day productivity 
of users.

 

There are a couple of points to bear in mind when you plan your migration:

1-  Identifying key components of your GIS workflow which are not currently 
available in off-the-shelf OS GIS packages. This can be functionality or legacy 
database/script/add-on/macro. Assess the cost and see which one works for you: 
invest money/time in redeveloping those  in OS GIS (other LAs might be 
interested and can co-fund) or keep a couple of licenses for those niche 
tools/databases

2-  Support/training: make sure your users get the right training and 
support. For basic users, a mini wiki page to show how general work-flows in 
your existing software can be done in QGIS. With OS GIS, you have no limits of 
licenses and you can have more users and eventually having more departments 
doing their own basic GIS work and freeing up your time to deal with other 
stuff.

 

Regards,

Saber

 

Saber Razmjooei
Lutra Consulting
www.lutraconsulting.co.uk <http://www.lutraconsulting.co.uk/> 



From: qgis-user-boun...@lists.osgeo.org 
[mailto:qgis-user-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Chris Buckmaster
Sent: 15 June 2015 10:52
To: qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org
Subject: Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

 

Hi All

 

Interesting discussion – I am responsible for GIS at a small local authority in 
the UK; we are an ESRI site but I have seen just how far FOSS4G has come in the 
last couple of years and have now had a proposal accepted to look at migrating 
our ESRI infrastructure over to PostGIS / QGIS / OpenLayers over the next year. 
I’ve been impressed at how efficient FOSS is, and particularly for us where we 
don’t deal with advanced analytics etc, for the tools we need FOSS can provide 
these just as well, if not better in some cases than proprietary offerings.

 

Does anyone know of any local gov authorities that have gone completely FOSS? 
i.e. built their own web app(s) and are using open source desktop and database 
software?

 

Chris

 

From: qgis-user-boun...@lists.osgeo.org 
[mailto:qgis-user-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Andreas Neumann
Sent: 15 June 2015 10:39
To: Micha Silver; qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org
Subject: Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

 

Hi Micha,

Thanks again for your response. I will discuss this with the devs and will 
probably come up with a proposal, asking for some organizations to join the 
funding.

Andreas

On 15.06.2015 10:28, Micha Silver wrote:

Hi Andreas:

Thanks for your response.
I'm quite sure that for most regional councils here, DXF would not be enough. 
The surveyors and planners that we work with all use Autodesk products. All 
their work is delivered in dwg, and some do not even know that there is such a 
thing as DXF.

I have not been following the Open Design Alliance lately, but including that 
library QGIS would certainly be a quantum leap forward. After Radim's success 
in crowd funding the implementation of GRASS 7, your suggestion indeed sounds 
feasible.

Regards,
Micha

On 6/15/2015 10:28 AM, Andreas Neumann wrote:

Hi Micha,

That is interesting - we invested a lot in the DXF export capabilities of QGIS. 
Once this is finished I am pretty sure we will also look to improve the 
situation regarding the import.

Do you think import of DXF is enough or do we also need DWG support? If so, the 
best bet would probably be the Teigha library from the Open Design Alliance 
(https://www.opendesign.com/the_oda_platform/Teigha), which isn't available for 
free - but it is the library most other GIS (eg. ESRI, Intergraph) and CAD (eg. 
Bentley, Bricscad, etc.) are using. We would have to pay a membership fee, but 
it allows us to redistribute the library with the software. Membership in the 
consortium is affordable in my opinion.

What are your thoughts on this? Would you also be available to help with a 
crowd-funding effort? Do you see options besides Teigha?

Andreas

On 15.06.2015 08:57, Micha Silver wrote:

 

On 06/15/2015 09:23 AM, Bernhard Ströbl wrote:

Hi Joseph, 

could you elaborate why "it would be unrealistic to say we 
could ever be a 100% QGIS"? I am curious because I lost contact with ESRI 
products a couple years ago. 


>From our point of view, we need support for dwg. That side of vendor lock-in 
>is, unfortunately, even stronger that the ties to ESRI. So we stay with Arc* 
>not because of the GIS capabilites, but more or less only because of the 
>ability to read Autocad plans and surveys.






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Th

Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

[Chris Buckmaster]

Hi All

Interesting discussion – I am responsible for GIS at a small local authority in 
the UK; we are an ESRI site but I have seen just how far FOSS4G has come in the 
last couple of years and have now had a proposal accepted to look at migrating 
our ESRI infrastructure over to PostGIS / QGIS / OpenLayers over the next year. 
I’ve been impressed at how efficient FOSS is, and particularly for us where we 
don’t deal with advanced analytics etc, for the tools we need FOSS can provide 
these just as well, if not better in some cases than proprietary offerings.

Does anyone know of any local gov authorities that have gone completely FOSS? 
i.e. built their own web app(s) and are using open source desktop and database 
software?

Chris

From: qgis-user-boun...@lists.osgeo.org 
[mailto:qgis-user-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Andreas Neumann
Sent: 15 June 2015 10:39
To: Micha Silver; qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org
Subject: Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

Hi Micha,

Thanks again for your response. I will discuss this with the devs and will 
probably come up with a proposal, asking for some organizations to join the 
funding.

Andreas
On 15.06.2015 10:28, Micha Silver wrote:
Hi Andreas:

Thanks for your response.
I'm quite sure that for most regional councils here, DXF would not be enough. 
The surveyors and planners that we work with all use Autodesk products. All 
their work is delivered in dwg, and some do not even know that there is such a 
thing as DXF.

I have not been following the Open Design Alliance lately, but including that 
library QGIS would certainly be a quantum leap forward. After Radim's success 
in crowd funding the implementation of GRASS 7, your suggestion indeed sounds 
feasible.

Regards,
Micha

On 6/15/2015 10:28 AM, Andreas Neumann wrote:
Hi Micha,

That is interesting - we invested a lot in the DXF export capabilities of QGIS. 
Once this is finished I am pretty sure we will also look to improve the 
situation regarding the import.

Do you think import of DXF is enough or do we also need DWG support? If so, the 
best bet would probably be the Teigha library from the Open Design Alliance 
(https://www.opendesign.com/the_oda_platform/Teigha), which isn't available for 
free - but it is the library most other GIS (eg. ESRI, Intergraph) and CAD (eg. 
Bentley, Bricscad, etc.) are using. We would have to pay a membership fee, but 
it allows us to redistribute the library with the software. Membership in the 
consortium is affordable in my opinion.

What are your thoughts on this? Would you also be available to help with a 
crowd-funding effort? Do you see options besides Teigha?

Andreas
On 15.06.2015 08:57, Micha Silver wrote:

On 06/15/2015 09:23 AM, Bernhard Ströbl wrote:
Hi Joseph,

could you elaborate why "it would be unrealistic to say we
could ever be a 100% QGIS"? I am curious because I lost contact with ESRI 
products a couple years ago.

From our point of view, we need support for dwg. That side of vendor lock-in 
is, unfortunately, even stronger that the ties to ESRI. So we stay with Arc* 
not because of the GIS capabilites, but more or less only because of the 
ability to read Autocad plans and surveys.






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Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

[Andreas Neumann]

Hi Micha,

Thanks again for your response. I will discuss this with the devs and 
will probably come up with a proposal, asking for some organizations to 
join the funding.


Andreas

On 15.06.2015 10:28, Micha Silver wrote:

Hi Andreas:

Thanks for your response.
I'm quite sure that for most regional councils here, DXF would not be 
enough. The surveyors and planners that we work with all use Autodesk 
products. All their work is delivered in dwg, and some do not even 
know that there is such a thing as DXF.


I have not been following the Open Design Alliance lately, but 
including that library QGIS would certainly be a quantum leap forward. 
After Radim's success in crowd funding the implementation of GRASS 7, 
your suggestion indeed sounds feasible.


Regards,
Micha

On 6/15/2015 10:28 AM, Andreas Neumann wrote:

Hi Micha,

That is interesting - we invested a lot in the DXF export 
capabilities of QGIS. Once this is finished I am pretty sure we will 
also look to improve the situation regarding the import.


Do you think import of DXF is enough or do we also need DWG support? 
If so, the best bet would probably be the Teigha library from the 
Open Design Alliance 
(https://www.opendesign.com/the_oda_platform/Teigha), which isn't 
available for free - but it is the library most other GIS (eg. ESRI, 
Intergraph) and CAD (eg. Bentley, Bricscad, etc.) are using. We would 
have to pay a membership fee, but it allows us to redistribute the 
library with the software. Membership in the consortium is affordable 
in my opinion.


What are your thoughts on this? Would you also be available to help 
with a crowd-funding effort? Do you see options besides Teigha?


Andreas

On 15.06.2015 08:57, Micha Silver wrote:



On 06/15/2015 09:23 AM, Bernhard Ströbl wrote:

Hi Joseph,

could you elaborate why "it would be unrealistic to say we
could ever be a 100% QGIS"? I am curious because I lost contact 
with ESRI products a couple years ago.




From our point of view, we need support for dwg. That side of vendor 
lock-in is, unfortunately, even stronger that the ties to ESRI. So 
we stay with Arc* not because of the GIS capabilites, but more or 
less only because of the ability to read Autocad plans and surveys.





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Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

[Micha Silver]

  
  
Hi Andreas:
  
  Thanks for your response.
  I'm quite sure that for most regional councils here, DXF would not
  be enough. The surveyors and planners that we work with all use
  Autodesk products. All their work is delivered in dwg, and some do
  not even know that there is such a thing as DXF.
  
  I have not been following the Open Design Alliance lately, but
  including that library QGIS would certainly be a quantum leap
  forward. After Radim's success in crowd funding the implementation
  of GRASS 7, your suggestion indeed sounds feasible.
  
  Regards,
  Micha
  
  On 6/15/2015 10:28 AM, Andreas Neumann wrote:


  
  Hi Micha,
  
  That is interesting - we invested a lot in the DXF export
  capabilities of QGIS. Once this is finished I am pretty sure we
  will also look to improve the situation regarding the import.
  
  Do you think import of DXF is enough or do we also need DWG
  support? If so, the best bet would probably be the Teigha library
  from the Open Design Alliance (https://www.opendesign.com/the_oda_platform/Teigha),
  which isn't available for free - but it is the library most other
  GIS (eg. ESRI, Intergraph) and CAD (eg. Bentley, Bricscad, etc.)
  are using. We would have to pay a membership fee, but it allows us
  to redistribute the library with the software. Membership in the
  consortium is affordable in my opinion.
  
  What are your thoughts on this? Would you also be available to
  help with a crowd-funding effort? Do you see options besides
  Teigha?
  
  Andreas
  
  On 15.06.2015 08:57, Micha Silver
wrote:
  
  




On 06/15/2015 09:23 AM, Bernhard
  Ströbl wrote:

Hi
  Joseph, 
  
  could you elaborate why "it would be unrealistic to say we 
  could ever be a 100% QGIS"? I am curious because I lost
  contact with ESRI products a couple years ago. 
  


From our point of view, we need support for dwg. That side of
vendor lock-in is, unfortunately, even stronger that the ties to
ESRI. So we stay with Arc* not because of the GIS capabilites,
but more or less only because of the ability to read Autocad
plans and surveys.





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Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

[Andreas Neumann]

Hi Micha,

That is interesting - we invested a lot in the DXF export capabilities 
of QGIS. Once this is finished I am pretty sure we will also look to 
improve the situation regarding the import.


Do you think import of DXF is enough or do we also need DWG support? If 
so, the best bet would probably be the Teigha library from the Open 
Design Alliance (https://www.opendesign.com/the_oda_platform/Teigha), 
which isn't available for free - but it is the library most other GIS 
(eg. ESRI, Intergraph) and CAD (eg. Bentley, Bricscad, etc.) are using. 
We would have to pay a membership fee, but it allows us to redistribute 
the library with the software. Membership in the consortium is 
affordable in my opinion.


What are your thoughts on this? Would you also be available to help with 
a crowd-funding effort? Do you see options besides Teigha?


Andreas

On 15.06.2015 08:57, Micha Silver wrote:



On 06/15/2015 09:23 AM, Bernhard Ströbl wrote:

Hi Joseph,

could you elaborate why "it would be unrealistic to say we
could ever be a 100% QGIS"? I am curious because I lost contact with 
ESRI products a couple years ago.




From our point of view, we need support for dwg. That side of vendor 
lock-in is, unfortunately, even stronger that the ties to ESRI. So we 
stay with Arc* not because of the GIS capabilites, but more or less 
only because of the ability to read Autocad plans and surveys.





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Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

[Micha Silver]

  
  


On 06/15/2015 09:23 AM, Bernhard Ströbl
  wrote:

Hi
  Joseph,
  
  
  could you elaborate why "it would be unrealistic to say we
  
  could ever be a 100% QGIS"? I am curious because I lost contact
  with ESRI products a couple years ago.
  
  


From our point of view, we need support for dwg. That side of vendor
lock-in is, unfortunately, even stronger that the ties to ESRI. So
we stay with Arc* not because of the GIS capabilites, but more or
less only because of the ability to read Autocad plans and surveys.


Bernhard
  
  
  Am 12.06.2015 um 19:23 schrieb Joseph Sloop:
  
  To All,

I am glad to see the discussion and interest in QGIS in local
government. I

have been interested in QGIS in local government for sometime
now. I work

for MapForsyth| City-County Geographic Information Office in
Forsyth

County, North Carolina (USA). We have and use both QGIS and ESRI
products

(more of ESRI than QGIS). In our case it would be unrealistic to
say we

could ever be a 100% QGIS (FOSS) shop at this point, but it is
our goal to

have QGIS integrated with more of our departments and through
time we will

be able to increase the use of QGIS.


I know from my experience, case studies and showing return on
investment

(ROI) are  very important to have and show decision makers.
However, let us

not for get our IT departments, especially in local government.
In our case

we partnered with them so they could see, understand, and ask
questions

regarding QGIS or any open source software we use. I have found
that they

are becoming some of our best supporters.


Some of my other thoughts are support and governance of QGIS

installations...best practices etc.


Just my two cents, but glad to see the discussion.


Cheers,


Joseph Sloop


On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 9:11 AM, Randal Hale <

rjh...@northrivergeographic.com> wrote:


In the states it's all ESRI all day.
  
  
  A few small governments might try to run in a FOSS4G direction
  but it's
  
  rare. In the Southeast they go "what is the next town over
  doing? we will
  
  do the same thing". The models that ESRI provide are tempting
  for many
  
  because suddenly everyone is doing the exact same thing. So
  with no thought
  
  - Gov't A can share with Gov't B. They feel as thought they
  are adhering to
  
  a standard - of course a standard put forth by a software
  company.
  
  
  My business is swinging in a more foss4g direction although I
  still use
  
  ESRI software as many of my customers do - but it's getting
  rare. So rare I
  
  opted to not renew my ESRI licensing this year. Many of my
  clients are
  
  versions back so I can sit on 10.2 for a while. I still get
  "well that free
  
  stuff can't be that good" but I'm slowly winning over clients
  as They are
  
  getting very good data with qgis/postgis and the word is
  spreading. Yes
  
  it's free but it's very professional.
  
  
  Well - we seem to have started something - question is where
  do we go next
  
  with this?
  
  
  Randy
  
  
  
  
  On 06/12/2015 04:34 AM, Andreas Neumann wrote:
  
  
  Hi Steve,


Thank you for raising this important discussion.


In some European countries the situation is a bit different
and Open

Source solutions are gaining an increasing market share. I
live and work in

Switzerland - and while the majority of the markets still
uses ESRI

products - there is an increasing number of provinces who
also increasingly

use Postgis, QGIS, OpenLayers, etc - sometimes exclusively
and sometimes

side by side with proprietary software.


I also think that the next couple of years we will see an
increasi

Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

[Bernhard Ströbl]

Hi Joseph,

could you elaborate why "it would be unrealistic to say we
could ever be a 100% QGIS"? I am curious because I lost contact with 
ESRI products a couple years ago.


Bernhard

Am 12.06.2015 um 19:23 schrieb Joseph Sloop:

To All,
I am glad to see the discussion and interest in QGIS in local government. I
have been interested in QGIS in local government for sometime now. I work
for MapForsyth| City-County Geographic Information Office in Forsyth
County, North Carolina (USA). We have and use both QGIS and ESRI products
(more of ESRI than QGIS). In our case it would be unrealistic to say we
could ever be a 100% QGIS (FOSS) shop at this point, but it is our goal to
have QGIS integrated with more of our departments and through time we will
be able to increase the use of QGIS.

I know from my experience, case studies and showing return on investment
(ROI) are  very important to have and show decision makers. However, let us
not for get our IT departments, especially in local government. In our case
we partnered with them so they could see, understand, and ask questions
regarding QGIS or any open source software we use. I have found that they
are becoming some of our best supporters.

Some of my other thoughts are support and governance of QGIS
installations...best practices etc.

Just my two cents, but glad to see the discussion.

Cheers,

Joseph Sloop

On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 9:11 AM, Randal Hale <
rjh...@northrivergeographic.com> wrote:


In the states it's all ESRI all day.

A few small governments might try to run in a FOSS4G direction but it's
rare. In the Southeast they go "what is the next town over doing? we will
do the same thing". The models that ESRI provide are tempting for many
because suddenly everyone is doing the exact same thing. So with no thought
- Gov't A can share with Gov't B. They feel as thought they are adhering to
a standard - of course a standard put forth by a software company.

My business is swinging in a more foss4g direction although I still use
ESRI software as many of my customers do - but it's getting rare. So rare I
opted to not renew my ESRI licensing this year. Many of my clients are
versions back so I can sit on 10.2 for a while. I still get "well that free
stuff can't be that good" but I'm slowly winning over clients as They are
getting very good data with qgis/postgis and the word is spreading. Yes
it's free but it's very professional.

Well - we seem to have started something - question is where do we go next
with this?

Randy



On 06/12/2015 04:34 AM, Andreas Neumann wrote:


Hi Steve,

Thank you for raising this important discussion.

In some European countries the situation is a bit different and Open
Source solutions are gaining an increasing market share. I live and work in
Switzerland - and while the majority of the markets still uses ESRI
products - there is an increasing number of provinces who also increasingly
use Postgis, QGIS, OpenLayers, etc - sometimes exclusively and sometimes
side by side with proprietary software.

I also think that the next couple of years we will see an increasing
number of governmental organisations introducing OpenSource GIS side by
side with commercial GIS and will gradually shift more and more
applications to FOSSGIS.

Some examples in Switzerland:

* The national mapping portal runs exclusively on OS software (Postgis,
OpenLayers, and some more) - it runs very well, fast and is very popular -
production of the data is still done exclusively in ESRI
* 2 provinces in Switzerland run exclusively in FOSSGIS, about 7 and 8
additional provinces introduced FOSSGIS side by side with commercial
products
* several cities and water/gaz providers are currently migrating to
FOSSGIS to document utility networks
* The austrian province "Vorarlberg" introduced several hundred
installations of QGIS as the main GIS in their administration
* several Scandinavian countries/provinces/cities are already using
FOSSGIS on both Desktop GIS and web mapping

The list would be much longer - but things are moving slowly and steadily
to more FOSSGIS usage in Europe - at least I can tell

There are two other interesting points:

* in my opinion - it is not so much about money - but about different
values: the ability to more easily influence the direction of the software,
support of open standards, integration with other FOSS software, etc.
* as an employee of a local government it is so much more interesting
being able to actively contribute to FOSS software rather than just using
software "as is".

As you can see above - it is more the "richer" countries that are moving
towards Open Source and fewer "poorer" countries. This indicates that the
factor "cost" is less important than people think.

Andreas


On 11.06.2015 22:28, Steve G wrote:


I am not sure this is the correct forum for a start to this discussion,
but
I've been pondering this for a while and interested what others think.  I
work for local government in the U.S. and when people gener

Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

[Joseph Sloop]

To All,
I am glad to see the discussion and interest in QGIS in local government. I
have been interested in QGIS in local government for sometime now. I work
for MapForsyth| City-County Geographic Information Office in Forsyth
County, North Carolina (USA). We have and use both QGIS and ESRI products
(more of ESRI than QGIS). In our case it would be unrealistic to say we
could ever be a 100% QGIS (FOSS) shop at this point, but it is our goal to
have QGIS integrated with more of our departments and through time we will
be able to increase the use of QGIS.

I know from my experience, case studies and showing return on investment
(ROI) are  very important to have and show decision makers. However, let us
not for get our IT departments, especially in local government. In our case
we partnered with them so they could see, understand, and ask questions
regarding QGIS or any open source software we use. I have found that they
are becoming some of our best supporters.

Some of my other thoughts are support and governance of QGIS
installations...best practices etc.

Just my two cents, but glad to see the discussion.

Cheers,

Joseph Sloop

On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 9:11 AM, Randal Hale <
rjh...@northrivergeographic.com> wrote:

> In the states it's all ESRI all day.
>
> A few small governments might try to run in a FOSS4G direction but it's
> rare. In the Southeast they go "what is the next town over doing? we will
> do the same thing". The models that ESRI provide are tempting for many
> because suddenly everyone is doing the exact same thing. So with no thought
> - Gov't A can share with Gov't B. They feel as thought they are adhering to
> a standard - of course a standard put forth by a software company.
>
> My business is swinging in a more foss4g direction although I still use
> ESRI software as many of my customers do - but it's getting rare. So rare I
> opted to not renew my ESRI licensing this year. Many of my clients are
> versions back so I can sit on 10.2 for a while. I still get "well that free
> stuff can't be that good" but I'm slowly winning over clients as They are
> getting very good data with qgis/postgis and the word is spreading. Yes
> it's free but it's very professional.
>
> Well - we seem to have started something - question is where do we go next
> with this?
>
> Randy
>
>
>
> On 06/12/2015 04:34 AM, Andreas Neumann wrote:
>
>> Hi Steve,
>>
>> Thank you for raising this important discussion.
>>
>> In some European countries the situation is a bit different and Open
>> Source solutions are gaining an increasing market share. I live and work in
>> Switzerland - and while the majority of the markets still uses ESRI
>> products - there is an increasing number of provinces who also increasingly
>> use Postgis, QGIS, OpenLayers, etc - sometimes exclusively and sometimes
>> side by side with proprietary software.
>>
>> I also think that the next couple of years we will see an increasing
>> number of governmental organisations introducing OpenSource GIS side by
>> side with commercial GIS and will gradually shift more and more
>> applications to FOSSGIS.
>>
>> Some examples in Switzerland:
>>
>> * The national mapping portal runs exclusively on OS software (Postgis,
>> OpenLayers, and some more) - it runs very well, fast and is very popular -
>> production of the data is still done exclusively in ESRI
>> * 2 provinces in Switzerland run exclusively in FOSSGIS, about 7 and 8
>> additional provinces introduced FOSSGIS side by side with commercial
>> products
>> * several cities and water/gaz providers are currently migrating to
>> FOSSGIS to document utility networks
>> * The austrian province "Vorarlberg" introduced several hundred
>> installations of QGIS as the main GIS in their administration
>> * several Scandinavian countries/provinces/cities are already using
>> FOSSGIS on both Desktop GIS and web mapping
>>
>> The list would be much longer - but things are moving slowly and steadily
>> to more FOSSGIS usage in Europe - at least I can tell
>>
>> There are two other interesting points:
>>
>> * in my opinion - it is not so much about money - but about different
>> values: the ability to more easily influence the direction of the software,
>> support of open standards, integration with other FOSS software, etc.
>> * as an employee of a local government it is so much more interesting
>> being able to actively contribute to FOSS software rather than just using
>> software "as is".
>>
>> As you can see above - it is more the "richer" countries that are moving
>> towards Open Source and fewer "poorer" countries. This indicates that the
>> factor "cost" is less important than people think.
>>
>> Andreas
>>
>>
>> On 11.06.2015 22:28, Steve G wrote:
>>
>>> I am not sure this is the correct forum for a start to this discussion,
>>> but
>>> I've been pondering this for a while and interested what others think.  I
>>> work for local government in the U.S. and when people generally talk
>>> about
>>> GIS there 

Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

[John Harrop]

In British Columbia, where I work in mineral exploration (in industry not 
government) there has been quite a lot of interesting non-ESRI work at the 
provincial geology and mining level.  This is probably not a surprise if you no 
the history of some of the tools.

My experience in our (junior exploration) company has been that we can get a 
lot more done now with FOSS and that with a little thinking this fits very well 
with legacy ESRI products.  Using Dropbox with a GRASS like directory structure 
we have been running cross platform on projects on several continents.  In 
other words, the Windows machines are usually running ESRI while the Macs (like 
me) have been running QGIS.  In addition, QGIS has been extending what the ESRI 
bundles cannot support.  Projects are split between management and technical 
expertise in Canada and fieldwork in Argentina and Ireland.

I’m very interested in starting another push for open geological support of 
drilling and other specific methods that work with QGIS.  Not all this is 
related to government but there is some overlap. The ability to play nicely 
with ESRI while in transition or at the edges of FOSS is very important to 
understand when considering options!

Cheers,

John Harrop


> On Jun 12, 2015, at 7:31 AM, James Keener  wrote:
> 
>> They feel as thought they are adhering to a standard - of course a
>> standard put forth by a software company.
> 
> A proprietary software company with whom they have no reason to believe
> their data from now will be accessible in 10 years, let along 50.
> 
>> Yes it's free but it's very professional.
> 
> A million times, yes. This is a message that's hard to get across.
> 
>> Well - we seem to have started something - question is where do we go
>> next with this?
> 
> Does the OSGeo group have a local governments sub-group? (I didn't see
> one, I wonder if there would be interest in creating one. If not, I
> still think we should create one, and I would be willing to fund the
> domain, site and forum hosting, mailing lists, &c  at first.) It seems
> to be a tech-focused organization and I wonder if they would they would
> be interested in forming a group dedicated to ... ?
> 
> What should we be dedicated to? (Also, I'm using F/OSS as a catch all, I
> realize we might want to trim it to OSG or something else).
> 
> Main Goal: To increase the usage of F/OSS software by government.
> 
> I say that with the subtext of "legitimizing" the use of F/OSS by
> governments, i.e. show them others who are using it, show them standards
> they can point to and justify themselves by, and show them that being
> beholden to software corps isn't the only way to get support.
> 
> I would suggest the following actions to supporting that goal:
> 
> * Compiling standards that Governments can (be) point to (endorsing the
>  (OGC standards)[http://www.opengeospatial.org/standards]?)
> * Compiling software that Governments can (be) pointed to (QGIS,
>  PostGIS, GDAL, &c)
> * Compiling case-studies done with F/OSS
> * Compiling white papers around using F/OSS
> * Improve the documentation and tutorials of recommended software
> * Work towards creating standards as needs arise
> * Provide a starting point for Governments to network with
>  * Other governments using F/OSS
>  * Vendors of F/OSS-based services (I'd be OK if this was left out,
>though it could be useful depending on our exact goals)
> 
> Thoughts?
> Jim Keener
> 
> On 06/12/2015 09:11 AM, Randal Hale wrote:
>> In the states it's all ESRI all day.
>> 
>> A few small governments might try to run in a FOSS4G direction but it's
>> rare. In the Southeast they go "what is the next town over doing? we
>> will do the same thing". The models that ESRI provide are tempting for
>> many because suddenly everyone is doing the exact same thing. So with no
>> thought - Gov't A can share with Gov't B. They feel as thought they are
>> adhering to a standard - of course a standard put forth by a software
>> company.
>> 
>> My business is swinging in a more foss4g direction although I still use
>> ESRI software as many of my customers do - but it's getting rare. So
>> rare I opted to not renew my ESRI licensing this year. Many of my
>> clients are versions back so I can sit on 10.2 for a while. I still get
>> "well that free stuff can't be that good" but I'm slowly winning over
>> clients as They are getting very good data with qgis/postgis and the
>> word is spreading. Yes it's free but it's very professional.
>> 
>> Well - we seem to have started something - question is where do we go
>> next with this?
>> 
>> Randy
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 06/12/2015 04:34 AM, Andreas Neumann wrote:
>>> Hi Steve,
>>> 
>>> Thank you for raising this important discussion.
>>> 
>>> In some European countries the situation is a bit different and Open
>>> Source solutions are gaining an increasing market share. I live and
>>> work in Switzerland - and while the majority of the markets still uses
>>> ESRI products - there is

Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

[Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul)]

Hello all,

Related to topic, I’ve been researching interest in setting up a regional 
cooperative for local governments around GeoMOOSE (at first) users in my area 
(upper Midwest, lot’s of GeoMOOSE up here)

If I can get an informal group together and get something started as a common 
roadmap for development, I think that will go far in reaching a lot of the 
goals that have been suggested here so far.  Having some sort of organization 
that is further reaching than our regional area might be a bit more of a 
stretch in the near term though, but it’s all likely a good thing in the long 
run.

bobb


> On Jun 12, 2015, at 9:31 AM, James Keener  wrote:
> 
>> They feel as thought they are adhering to a standard - of course a
>> standard put forth by a software company.
> 
> A proprietary software company with whom they have no reason to believe
> their data from now will be accessible in 10 years, let along 50.
> 
>> Yes it's free but it's very professional.
> 
> A million times, yes. This is a message that's hard to get across.
> 
>> Well - we seem to have started something - question is where do we go
>> next with this?
> 
> Does the OSGeo group have a local governments sub-group? (I didn't see
> one, I wonder if there would be interest in creating one. If not, I
> still think we should create one, and I would be willing to fund the
> domain, site and forum hosting, mailing lists, &c  at first.) It seems
> to be a tech-focused organization and I wonder if they would they would
> be interested in forming a group dedicated to ... ?
> 
> What should we be dedicated to? (Also, I'm using F/OSS as a catch all, I
> realize we might want to trim it to OSG or something else).
> 
> Main Goal: To increase the usage of F/OSS software by government.
> 
> I say that with the subtext of "legitimizing" the use of F/OSS by
> governments, i.e. show them others who are using it, show them standards
> they can point to and justify themselves by, and show them that being
> beholden to software corps isn't the only way to get support.
> 
> I would suggest the following actions to supporting that goal:
> 
> * Compiling standards that Governments can (be) point to (endorsing the
>  (OGC standards)[http://www.opengeospatial.org/standards]?)
> * Compiling software that Governments can (be) pointed to (QGIS,
>  PostGIS, GDAL, &c)
> * Compiling case-studies done with F/OSS
> * Compiling white papers around using F/OSS
> * Improve the documentation and tutorials of recommended software
> * Work towards creating standards as needs arise
> * Provide a starting point for Governments to network with
>  * Other governments using F/OSS
>  * Vendors of F/OSS-based services (I'd be OK if this was left out,
>though it could be useful depending on our exact goals)
> 
> Thoughts?
> Jim Keener
> 
> On 06/12/2015 09:11 AM, Randal Hale wrote:
>> In the states it's all ESRI all day.
>> 
>> A few small governments might try to run in a FOSS4G direction but it's
>> rare. In the Southeast they go "what is the next town over doing? we
>> will do the same thing". The models that ESRI provide are tempting for
>> many because suddenly everyone is doing the exact same thing. So with no
>> thought - Gov't A can share with Gov't B. They feel as thought they are
>> adhering to a standard - of course a standard put forth by a software
>> company.
>> 
>> My business is swinging in a more foss4g direction although I still use
>> ESRI software as many of my customers do - but it's getting rare. So
>> rare I opted to not renew my ESRI licensing this year. Many of my
>> clients are versions back so I can sit on 10.2 for a while. I still get
>> "well that free stuff can't be that good" but I'm slowly winning over
>> clients as They are getting very good data with qgis/postgis and the
>> word is spreading. Yes it's free but it's very professional.
>> 
>> Well - we seem to have started something - question is where do we go
>> next with this?
>> 
>> Randy
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 06/12/2015 04:34 AM, Andreas Neumann wrote:
>>> Hi Steve,
>>> 
>>> Thank you for raising this important discussion.
>>> 
>>> In some European countries the situation is a bit different and Open
>>> Source solutions are gaining an increasing market share. I live and
>>> work in Switzerland - and while the majority of the markets still uses
>>> ESRI products - there is an increasing number of provinces who also
>>> increasingly use Postgis, QGIS, OpenLayers, etc - sometimes
>>> exclusively and sometimes side by side with proprietary software.
>>> 
>>> I also think that the next couple of years we will see an increasing
>>> number of governmental organisations introducing OpenSource GIS side
>>> by side with commercial GIS and will gradually shift more and more
>>> applications to FOSSGIS.
>>> 
>>> Some examples in Switzerland:
>>> 
>>> * The national mapping portal runs exclusively on OS software
>>> (Postgis, OpenLayers, and some more) - it runs very well, fast and is
>>> very popular - producti

Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

[James Keener]

> They feel as thought they are adhering to a standard - of course a
> standard put forth by a software company.

A proprietary software company with whom they have no reason to believe
their data from now will be accessible in 10 years, let along 50.

>  Yes it's free but it's very professional.

A million times, yes. This is a message that's hard to get across.

> Well - we seem to have started something - question is where do we go
> next with this?

Does the OSGeo group have a local governments sub-group? (I didn't see
one, I wonder if there would be interest in creating one. If not, I
still think we should create one, and I would be willing to fund the
domain, site and forum hosting, mailing lists, &c  at first.) It seems
to be a tech-focused organization and I wonder if they would they would
be interested in forming a group dedicated to ... ?

What should we be dedicated to? (Also, I'm using F/OSS as a catch all, I
realize we might want to trim it to OSG or something else).

Main Goal: To increase the usage of F/OSS software by government.

I say that with the subtext of "legitimizing" the use of F/OSS by
governments, i.e. show them others who are using it, show them standards
they can point to and justify themselves by, and show them that being
beholden to software corps isn't the only way to get support.

I would suggest the following actions to supporting that goal:

* Compiling standards that Governments can (be) point to (endorsing the
  (OGC standards)[http://www.opengeospatial.org/standards]?)
* Compiling software that Governments can (be) pointed to (QGIS,
  PostGIS, GDAL, &c)
* Compiling case-studies done with F/OSS
* Compiling white papers around using F/OSS
* Improve the documentation and tutorials of recommended software
* Work towards creating standards as needs arise
* Provide a starting point for Governments to network with
  * Other governments using F/OSS
  * Vendors of F/OSS-based services (I'd be OK if this was left out,
though it could be useful depending on our exact goals)

Thoughts?
Jim Keener

On 06/12/2015 09:11 AM, Randal Hale wrote:
> In the states it's all ESRI all day.
> 
> A few small governments might try to run in a FOSS4G direction but it's
> rare. In the Southeast they go "what is the next town over doing? we
> will do the same thing". The models that ESRI provide are tempting for
> many because suddenly everyone is doing the exact same thing. So with no
> thought - Gov't A can share with Gov't B. They feel as thought they are
> adhering to a standard - of course a standard put forth by a software
> company.
> 
> My business is swinging in a more foss4g direction although I still use
> ESRI software as many of my customers do - but it's getting rare. So
> rare I opted to not renew my ESRI licensing this year. Many of my
> clients are versions back so I can sit on 10.2 for a while. I still get
> "well that free stuff can't be that good" but I'm slowly winning over
> clients as They are getting very good data with qgis/postgis and the
> word is spreading. Yes it's free but it's very professional.
> 
> Well - we seem to have started something - question is where do we go
> next with this?
> 
> Randy
> 
> 
> 
> On 06/12/2015 04:34 AM, Andreas Neumann wrote:
>> Hi Steve,
>>
>> Thank you for raising this important discussion.
>>
>> In some European countries the situation is a bit different and Open
>> Source solutions are gaining an increasing market share. I live and
>> work in Switzerland - and while the majority of the markets still uses
>> ESRI products - there is an increasing number of provinces who also
>> increasingly use Postgis, QGIS, OpenLayers, etc - sometimes
>> exclusively and sometimes side by side with proprietary software.
>>
>> I also think that the next couple of years we will see an increasing
>> number of governmental organisations introducing OpenSource GIS side
>> by side with commercial GIS and will gradually shift more and more
>> applications to FOSSGIS.
>>
>> Some examples in Switzerland:
>>
>> * The national mapping portal runs exclusively on OS software
>> (Postgis, OpenLayers, and some more) - it runs very well, fast and is
>> very popular - production of the data is still done exclusively in ESRI
>> * 2 provinces in Switzerland run exclusively in FOSSGIS, about 7 and 8
>> additional provinces introduced FOSSGIS side by side with commercial
>> products
>> * several cities and water/gaz providers are currently migrating to
>> FOSSGIS to document utility networks
>> * The austrian province "Vorarlberg" introduced several hundred
>> installations of QGIS as the main GIS in their administration
>> * several Scandinavian countries/provinces/cities are already using
>> FOSSGIS on both Desktop GIS and web mapping
>>
>> The list would be much longer - but things are moving slowly and
>> steadily to more FOSSGIS usage in Europe - at least I can tell
>>
>> There are two other interesting points:
>>
>> * in my opinion - it is not so much about money

Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

[Randal Hale]

In the states it's all ESRI all day.

A few small governments might try to run in a FOSS4G direction but it's 
rare. In the Southeast they go "what is the next town over doing? we 
will do the same thing". The models that ESRI provide are tempting for 
many because suddenly everyone is doing the exact same thing. So with no 
thought - Gov't A can share with Gov't B. They feel as thought they are 
adhering to a standard - of course a standard put forth by a software 
company.


My business is swinging in a more foss4g direction although I still use 
ESRI software as many of my customers do - but it's getting rare. So 
rare I opted to not renew my ESRI licensing this year. Many of my 
clients are versions back so I can sit on 10.2 for a while. I still get 
"well that free stuff can't be that good" but I'm slowly winning over 
clients as They are getting very good data with qgis/postgis and the 
word is spreading. Yes it's free but it's very professional.


Well - we seem to have started something - question is where do we go 
next with this?


Randy



On 06/12/2015 04:34 AM, Andreas Neumann wrote:

Hi Steve,

Thank you for raising this important discussion.

In some European countries the situation is a bit different and Open 
Source solutions are gaining an increasing market share. I live and 
work in Switzerland - and while the majority of the markets still uses 
ESRI products - there is an increasing number of provinces who also 
increasingly use Postgis, QGIS, OpenLayers, etc - sometimes 
exclusively and sometimes side by side with proprietary software.


I also think that the next couple of years we will see an increasing 
number of governmental organisations introducing OpenSource GIS side 
by side with commercial GIS and will gradually shift more and more 
applications to FOSSGIS.


Some examples in Switzerland:

* The national mapping portal runs exclusively on OS software 
(Postgis, OpenLayers, and some more) - it runs very well, fast and is 
very popular - production of the data is still done exclusively in ESRI
* 2 provinces in Switzerland run exclusively in FOSSGIS, about 7 and 8 
additional provinces introduced FOSSGIS side by side with commercial 
products
* several cities and water/gaz providers are currently migrating to 
FOSSGIS to document utility networks
* The austrian province "Vorarlberg" introduced several hundred 
installations of QGIS as the main GIS in their administration
* several Scandinavian countries/provinces/cities are already using 
FOSSGIS on both Desktop GIS and web mapping


The list would be much longer - but things are moving slowly and 
steadily to more FOSSGIS usage in Europe - at least I can tell


There are two other interesting points:

* in my opinion - it is not so much about money - but about different 
values: the ability to more easily influence the direction of the 
software, support of open standards, integration with other FOSS 
software, etc.
* as an employee of a local government it is so much more interesting 
being able to actively contribute to FOSS software rather than just 
using software "as is".


As you can see above - it is more the "richer" countries that are 
moving towards Open Source and fewer "poorer" countries. This 
indicates that the factor "cost" is less important than people think.


Andreas


On 11.06.2015 22:28, Steve G wrote:
I am not sure this is the correct forum for a start to this 
discussion, but
I've been pondering this for a while and interested what others 
think.  I
work for local government in the U.S. and when people generally talk 
about

GIS there is no doubt an automatic association with the ESRI ArcGIS
platform.  And beyond GIS itself, the dominance that ESRI has is even 
more
pronounced given the fact that many cities have implemented other 
related

systems (permitting, computer aided dispatch, etc) that are identified
business partners with ESRI.  Furthermore, the "GIS Local Government" 
track

that ESRI developed has evolved to offer an "turnkey" approach for local
government self-service to establish a robust geodatabase (Local 
Government

Information Model), maps, apps, web services, etc.  This extends a COTS
approach for local governments to establish, develop, and maintain a 
fairly

complete GIS.  In my opinion, pure genius...because for a lot of small
cities/governments with limited staff and budget, the turnkey 
approach is
very appealing.  For city bureaucrats thinking about 
implementing/extending

GIS, what they might think as little $$$ and you get all of this?
Awesome...here's my money.

HOWEVER, this approach has its drawbacks.  Long-term license/use costs,
vendor lock-in, continuous waiting for someone at the company to fix
somethingwell, the list goes on (just read any blog post 
supporting open

source/FOSS).

So, with the evolution of QGIS as a prevailing 
replacement/alternative for

the other product, is anyone thinking about building more of a turnkey
approach (database, maps, apps, web s

Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

[McDonaldR]

Here in the UK there is a growing momentum in the move towards using 
FOSS/FOSS4G (QGIS / Geoserver / MapServer / PostgreSQL / PostGIS / OpenLayers / 
Leaflet / etc / etc) in local government (and central government too).  This is 
being driven by a number of factors - open formats/standards vs proprietary 
lock-in, flexibility vs more static processes, robustness/reliability/speed of 
development vs more static release schedules.  Cost plays a small part.

There is also a (small) pool of companies starting to offer support services 
for desktop and web GIS, open source databases, and consultancy specialising in 
FOSS4G.  Some of these companies also offer enterprise solutions (intranet and 
internet mapping, database backend, web services, back-office integration) 
based on a full FOSS4G stack.

As for paying for all this - the subscription model is gaining in popularity as 
more and more is being offered in the cloud as a remotely hosted and managed 
service.

If you want some examples of solutions and offerings being made here have a 
look at:
* https://astuntechnology.com/
* http://www.thinkwhere.com
* http://www.lutraconsulting.co.uk/
* https://www.esdm.co.uk/
* 
https://www.digitalmarketplace.service.gov.uk/search?lot=saas&showSubcategories=true
 (search "GIS" or "mapping")

Cheers

Ross

-Original Message-
From: qgis-user-boun...@lists.osgeo.org 
[mailto:qgis-user-boun...@lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Steve G
Sent: 11 June 2015 21:29
To: qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org
Subject: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

I am not sure this is the correct forum for a start to this discussion, but 
I've been pondering this for a while and interested what others think.  I work 
for local government in the U.S. and when people generally talk about GIS there 
is no doubt an automatic association with the ESRI ArcGIS platform.  And beyond 
GIS itself, the dominance that ESRI has is even more pronounced given the fact 
that many cities have implemented other related systems (permitting, computer 
aided dispatch, etc) that are identified business partners with ESRI.  
Furthermore, the "GIS Local Government" track that ESRI developed has evolved 
to offer an "turnkey" approach for local government self-service to establish a 
robust geodatabase (Local Government Information Model), maps, apps, web 
services, etc.  This extends a COTS approach for local governments to 
establish, develop, and maintain a fairly complete GIS.  In my opinion, pure 
genius...because for a lot of small cities/governments with limited staff and
  budget, the turnkey approach is very appealing.  For city bureaucrats 
thinking about implementing/extending GIS, what they might think as little $$$ 
and you get all of this?
Awesome...here's my money.

HOWEVER, this approach has its drawbacks.  Long-term license/use costs, vendor 
lock-in, continuous waiting for someone at the company to fix 
somethingwell, the list goes on (just read any blog post supporting open 
source/FOSS).

So, with the evolution of QGIS as a prevailing replacement/alternative for the 
other product, is anyone thinking about building more of a turnkey approach 
(database, maps, apps, web services, etc) geared to local governments?  I like 
the direction of the OpenGeo platform (and others) trying to provide the whole 
software stack, but still if a small local government wants to have a full 
fledged interactive GIS, it might seem like a lot of work to develop and 
maintain.

I am interested in other thoughts...perhaps this belongs on a blog post 
somewhere more independent, but perhaps this can be a place to begin.

Steve G.



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Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

[Andreas Neumann]

Hi Steve,

Thank you for raising this important discussion.

In some European countries the situation is a bit different and Open 
Source solutions are gaining an increasing market share. I live and work 
in Switzerland - and while the majority of the markets still uses ESRI 
products - there is an increasing number of provinces who also 
increasingly use Postgis, QGIS, OpenLayers, etc - sometimes exclusively 
and sometimes side by side with proprietary software.


I also think that the next couple of years we will see an increasing 
number of governmental organisations introducing OpenSource GIS side by 
side with commercial GIS and will gradually shift more and more 
applications to FOSSGIS.


Some examples in Switzerland:

* The national mapping portal runs exclusively on OS software (Postgis, 
OpenLayers, and some more) - it runs very well, fast and is very popular 
- production of the data is still done exclusively in ESRI
* 2 provinces in Switzerland run exclusively in FOSSGIS, about 7 and 8 
additional provinces introduced FOSSGIS side by side with commercial 
products
* several cities and water/gaz providers are currently migrating to 
FOSSGIS to document utility networks
* The austrian province "Vorarlberg" introduced several hundred 
installations of QGIS as the main GIS in their administration
* several Scandinavian countries/provinces/cities are already using 
FOSSGIS on both Desktop GIS and web mapping


The list would be much longer - but things are moving slowly and 
steadily to more FOSSGIS usage in Europe - at least I can tell


There are two other interesting points:

* in my opinion - it is not so much about money - but about different 
values: the ability to more easily influence the direction of the 
software, support of open standards, integration with other FOSS 
software, etc.
* as an employee of a local government it is so much more interesting 
being able to actively contribute to FOSS software rather than just 
using software "as is".


As you can see above - it is more the "richer" countries that are moving 
towards Open Source and fewer "poorer" countries. This indicates that 
the factor "cost" is less important than people think.


Andreas


On 11.06.2015 22:28, Steve G wrote:

I am not sure this is the correct forum for a start to this discussion, but
I've been pondering this for a while and interested what others think.  I
work for local government in the U.S. and when people generally talk about
GIS there is no doubt an automatic association with the ESRI ArcGIS
platform.  And beyond GIS itself, the dominance that ESRI has is even more
pronounced given the fact that many cities have implemented other related
systems (permitting, computer aided dispatch, etc) that are identified
business partners with ESRI.  Furthermore, the "GIS Local Government" track
that ESRI developed has evolved to offer an "turnkey" approach for local
government self-service to establish a robust geodatabase (Local Government
Information Model), maps, apps, web services, etc.  This extends a COTS
approach for local governments to establish, develop, and maintain a fairly
complete GIS.  In my opinion, pure genius...because for a lot of small
cities/governments with limited staff and budget, the turnkey approach is
very appealing.  For city bureaucrats thinking about implementing/extending
GIS, what they might think as little $$$ and you get all of this?
Awesome...here's my money.

HOWEVER, this approach has its drawbacks.  Long-term license/use costs,
vendor lock-in, continuous waiting for someone at the company to fix
somethingwell, the list goes on (just read any blog post supporting open
source/FOSS).

So, with the evolution of QGIS as a prevailing replacement/alternative for
the other product, is anyone thinking about building more of a turnkey
approach (database, maps, apps, web services, etc) geared to local
governments?  I like the direction of the OpenGeo platform (and others)
trying to provide the whole software stack, but still if a small local
government wants to have a full fledged interactive GIS, it might seem like
a lot of work to develop and maintain.

I am interested in other thoughts...perhaps this belongs on a blog post
somewhere more independent, but perhaps this can be a place to begin.

Steve G.



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Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

[Jacopo Tonetti]

Hi,
it is strange and in some way comforting that on the "other side" of earth
there are local government employees "asked to do more with less resources"
:)
In Italy, where I was a consultant for a local government, things are
slowly but constantly (in my view) changing toward an increase of FOSS
softwares (QGIS above all), mainly due to this long-lasting economical
crisis, but confirmed by the ability to hold the comparison with all the
proprietary softwares.
My two cents here, when you say "We are open minded enough to examine the
alternatives as they present themselves and take advantage of opportunities
as they arise", is to increase your involvement in QGIS project, because it
has the maturity to be a perfect substitute of
arc-map-copyrighted-proprietary-things. Please don't dissipate (too much!) your
energies and resources in small and local alternative projects, but keep
building the greatest alternative that people can freely choose.
Jacopo




2015-06-12 3:49 GMT+02:00 Johanna Botman :

> I, too, work for local government - in New South Wales (Australia).
>
> We were an exclusively MapInfo shop until I came along. Not that I can
> claim the move to QGIS ... but adding me to the staff meant that the
> opportunity was there to explore open source software and how it would fit
> into Council's IT and GIS.
>
> There are hiccups, of course, but I find QGIS to be as robust as MapInfo,
> sometimes better and sometimes not as good. I think, though, that this can
> be said of any software comparisons.
>
> Our reasons for changing were as the OP described - an unwillingness to be
> locked into proprietary formats and expensive licensing agreements. We may
> not be on QGIS forever, either. We are open minded enough to examine the
> alternatives as they present themselves and take advantage of opportunities
> as they arise.
>
> While we are being asked to do more with less resources, we see this as
> the most appropriate course at this time.
>
> We have the support of consultants who know and understand QGIS and who
> are partners with enterprises who fund and develop changes and improvements
> with QGIS. And personally, I have found the help and support available
> through this mail list to be invaluable. Through this mail list I have been
> able to deal directly with the developer of a particular component of QGIS
> and had it fixed in the nightly build.
>
> ___
> Johanna Botman
> GIS / Assets Officer
>
>
> Griffith City Council
> Ph: 02 6962 8168
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

[Milo van der Linden]

That is a great summary Falk!

I think the GIS community is lacking strategic marketeers and solid
branding. I personally tried to take that road once, thinking I was backed
by a solid group of open source professionals teamed up in a cooperation. I
was wrong. It is my opinion that the businessmodel where "one that does the
work gets paid" and "one that invests in relations does so on his own
account" needs tuning to put open source on the agenda of government
descision makers.

2015-06-12 3:56 GMT+02:00 Falk Huettmann :

> Dear all,
>
> thanks,
> I find this is a very essential discussion to have, and with
> QGIS, GDAL/R etc at its core and solution.
>
> Much can be said, and should be said and changed,
> but here a few points for a start:
>
> -mapping relates to land, health and water management questions; many of
> these are widely unresolved nor do many people really want it to be
> resolved even.
>
> -mapping is, and remains, a highly strategic and military topic.
>
> -mapping affects economic growth and our neoliberal economy policy.
> Software is directly embedded in that; now all driven by online
> developments
> and its drivers.
>
> -mapping and its tools and data are part of democracy.
>
>
> Thus, a (tried) control of mapping, its data, and its tools, must come of
> no big surprise. It's a heavily vested subject.
> (one can add easily remote sensing perspectives in that discussion, and
> one really should).
>
> These things are not new, apply globally, and are part of any good
> Geography textbook really.
> I would go that far and put it as a major topic for Climate Change!
>
> So I think the current status of GIS & governments and its inertia can
> widely be derived from there.
> We have much experience in that, world-wide (happy to share if somebody
> wants to know; just ask...).
>
> What about a good set of GIS and Remote Sensing ETHICS ?
>
> Yes, I find it's time things change for the better.
> Keep me posted please.
>
>  Very best and thanks
>  Falk Huettmann
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 12:28 PM, Steve G  wrote:
>
>> I am not sure this is the correct forum for a start to this discussion,
>> but
>> I've been pondering this for a while and interested what others think.  I
>> work for local government in the U.S. and when people generally talk about
>> GIS there is no doubt an automatic association with the ESRI ArcGIS
>> platform.  And beyond GIS itself, the dominance that ESRI has is even more
>> pronounced given the fact that many cities have implemented other related
>> systems (permitting, computer aided dispatch, etc) that are identified
>> business partners with ESRI.  Furthermore, the "GIS Local Government"
>> track
>> that ESRI developed has evolved to offer an "turnkey" approach for local
>> government self-service to establish a robust geodatabase (Local
>> Government
>> Information Model), maps, apps, web services, etc.  This extends a COTS
>> approach for local governments to establish, develop, and maintain a
>> fairly
>> complete GIS.  In my opinion, pure genius...because for a lot of small
>> cities/governments with limited staff and budget, the turnkey approach is
>> very appealing.  For city bureaucrats thinking about
>> implementing/extending
>> GIS, what they might think as little $$$ and you get all of this?
>> Awesome...here's my money.
>>
>> HOWEVER, this approach has its drawbacks.  Long-term license/use costs,
>> vendor lock-in, continuous waiting for someone at the company to fix
>> somethingwell, the list goes on (just read any blog post supporting
>> open
>> source/FOSS).
>>
>> So, with the evolution of QGIS as a prevailing replacement/alternative for
>> the other product, is anyone thinking about building more of a turnkey
>> approach (database, maps, apps, web services, etc) geared to local
>> governments?  I like the direction of the OpenGeo platform (and others)
>> trying to provide the whole software stack, but still if a small local
>> government wants to have a full fledged interactive GIS, it might seem
>> like
>> a lot of work to develop and maintain.
>>
>> I am interested in other thoughts...perhaps this belongs on a blog post
>> somewhere more independent, but perhaps this can be a place to begin.
>>
>> Steve G.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://osgeo-org.1560.x6.nabble.com/Local-Government-for-QGIS-tp5210489.html
>> Sent from the Quantum GIS - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> ___
>> Qgis-user mailing list
>> Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
>>
>
>
> ___
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Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

[Johanna Botman]

I, too, work for local government - in New South Wales (Australia).

We were an exclusively MapInfo shop until I came along. Not that I can
claim the move to QGIS ... but adding me to the staff meant that the
opportunity was there to explore open source software and how it would fit
into Council's IT and GIS.

There are hiccups, of course, but I find QGIS to be as robust as MapInfo,
sometimes better and sometimes not as good. I think, though, that this can
be said of any software comparisons.

Our reasons for changing were as the OP described - an unwillingness to be
locked into proprietary formats and expensive licensing agreements. We may
not be on QGIS forever, either. We are open minded enough to examine the
alternatives as they present themselves and take advantage of opportunities
as they arise.

While we are being asked to do more with less resources, we see this as the
most appropriate course at this time.

We have the support of consultants who know and understand QGIS and who are
partners with enterprises who fund and develop changes and improvements
with QGIS. And personally, I have found the help and support available
through this mail list to be invaluable. Through this mail list I have been
able to deal directly with the developer of a particular component of QGIS
and had it fixed in the nightly build.

___
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GIS / Assets Officer


Griffith City Council
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Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

[Falk Huettmann]

Dear all,

thanks,
I find this is a very essential discussion to have, and with
QGIS, GDAL/R etc at its core and solution.

Much can be said, and should be said and changed,
but here a few points for a start:

-mapping relates to land, health and water management questions; many of
these are widely unresolved nor do many people really want it to be
resolved even.

-mapping is, and remains, a highly strategic and military topic.

-mapping affects economic growth and our neoliberal economy policy.
Software is directly embedded in that; now all driven by online developments
and its drivers.

-mapping and its tools and data are part of democracy.


Thus, a (tried) control of mapping, its data, and its tools, must come of
no big surprise. It's a heavily vested subject.
(one can add easily remote sensing perspectives in that discussion, and one
really should).

These things are not new, apply globally, and are part of any good
Geography textbook really.
I would go that far and put it as a major topic for Climate Change!

So I think the current status of GIS & governments and its inertia can
widely be derived from there.
We have much experience in that, world-wide (happy to share if somebody
wants to know; just ask...).

What about a good set of GIS and Remote Sensing ETHICS ?

Yes, I find it's time things change for the better.
Keep me posted please.

 Very best and thanks
 Falk Huettmann



On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 12:28 PM, Steve G  wrote:

> I am not sure this is the correct forum for a start to this discussion, but
> I've been pondering this for a while and interested what others think.  I
> work for local government in the U.S. and when people generally talk about
> GIS there is no doubt an automatic association with the ESRI ArcGIS
> platform.  And beyond GIS itself, the dominance that ESRI has is even more
> pronounced given the fact that many cities have implemented other related
> systems (permitting, computer aided dispatch, etc) that are identified
> business partners with ESRI.  Furthermore, the "GIS Local Government" track
> that ESRI developed has evolved to offer an "turnkey" approach for local
> government self-service to establish a robust geodatabase (Local Government
> Information Model), maps, apps, web services, etc.  This extends a COTS
> approach for local governments to establish, develop, and maintain a fairly
> complete GIS.  In my opinion, pure genius...because for a lot of small
> cities/governments with limited staff and budget, the turnkey approach is
> very appealing.  For city bureaucrats thinking about implementing/extending
> GIS, what they might think as little $$$ and you get all of this?
> Awesome...here's my money.
>
> HOWEVER, this approach has its drawbacks.  Long-term license/use costs,
> vendor lock-in, continuous waiting for someone at the company to fix
> somethingwell, the list goes on (just read any blog post supporting
> open
> source/FOSS).
>
> So, with the evolution of QGIS as a prevailing replacement/alternative for
> the other product, is anyone thinking about building more of a turnkey
> approach (database, maps, apps, web services, etc) geared to local
> governments?  I like the direction of the OpenGeo platform (and others)
> trying to provide the whole software stack, but still if a small local
> government wants to have a full fledged interactive GIS, it might seem like
> a lot of work to develop and maintain.
>
> I am interested in other thoughts...perhaps this belongs on a blog post
> somewhere more independent, but perhaps this can be a place to begin.
>
> Steve G.
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://osgeo-org.1560.x6.nabble.com/Local-Government-for-QGIS-tp5210489.html
> Sent from the Quantum GIS - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ___
> Qgis-user mailing list
> Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
>
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Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

[James Keener]

Yeah. I used to intern in Pittsburgh, Pa's Dept of City Planning and there
were 3 people with Arc licenses that were always too busy to help the
neighborhood planners so we just emailed kml files around. (Much of my
summer was also (poorly) copying as-builts into Google Earth, because no
digital plans exist (or are owned by the city at any rate).  There is so
little that could make a huge improvement, and I want to help make those
improvements.

Like I said, I'm just starting up, but I am defiantly interested in putting
resources towards helping with the tooling and documentation.  Honestly,
from my opinion, the push back I've been getting is more that the people
who need these tools aren't technically inclined and don't have the
time/don't want to/don't think they can build up their GIS skills.

Beyond all of that, it's just insane that most of these municipalities
don't even own their data, the engineering firms they use have it all and
the municipalities never seem to want it, or would know what to do with it.

I'm trying to help on those two fronts.

Sorry if that was a bit long -- I'm excited!

Jim

On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 4:56 PM, Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul) <
bob.basq...@ci.stpaul.mn.us> wrote:

> All,
>
> I’ve been having these same sorts of thoughts for a couple of years or
> so.  The local gov infrastructure seems like the right customer base to
> insert a providers model into.
>
> bobb
>
>
> > On Jun 11, 2015, at 3:43 PM, Randal Hale <
> rjh...@northrivergeographic.com> wrote:
> >
> > I've contemplated the same thing. I've been working on an openforestry
> template (which I'm failing to update on github) for that very reason (well
> two - to see if I could do it and because I want to provide an alternative).
> >
> > It's doable - it's just finding a coalition of the willing to start
> piecing it together. ESRI does have a lock with all those models: small
> government, utilities, forestry. Everyone gets roped in and then they get
> stuck. My current shaking my head moment is the ESRI Parcel Fabric model.
> You get so deep into that one on just the conversion work you'll never get
> out of it cleanly (I assume - I've never tried).
> >
> > QGIS is the desktop component to make that happen with a database
> backend (right now for me it's postgresql/postgis). Support is the next
> biggie - people want someone to call and yell at when it doesn't work.
> >
> > My .02 cents,
> > Randy
> >
> > On 06/11/2015 04:28 PM, Steve G wrote:
> >> I am not sure this is the correct forum for a start to this discussion,
> but
> >> I've been pondering this for a while and interested what others think.
> I
> >> work for local government in the U.S. and when people generally talk
> about
> >> GIS there is no doubt an automatic association with the ESRI ArcGIS
> >> platform.  And beyond GIS itself, the dominance that ESRI has is even
> more
> >> pronounced given the fact that many cities have implemented other
> related
> >> systems (permitting, computer aided dispatch, etc) that are identified
> >> business partners with ESRI.  Furthermore, the "GIS Local Government"
> track
> >> that ESRI developed has evolved to offer an "turnkey" approach for local
> >> government self-service to establish a robust geodatabase (Local
> Government
> >> Information Model), maps, apps, web services, etc.  This extends a COTS
> >> approach for local governments to establish, develop, and maintain a
> fairly
> >> complete GIS.  In my opinion, pure genius...because for a lot of small
> >> cities/governments with limited staff and budget, the turnkey approach
> is
> >> very appealing.  For city bureaucrats thinking about
> implementing/extending
> >> GIS, what they might think as little $$$ and you get all of this?
> >> Awesome...here's my money.
> >>
> >> HOWEVER, this approach has its drawbacks.  Long-term license/use costs,
> >> vendor lock-in, continuous waiting for someone at the company to fix
> >> somethingwell, the list goes on (just read any blog post supporting
> open
> >> source/FOSS).
> >>
> >> So, with the evolution of QGIS as a prevailing replacement/alternative
> for
> >> the other product, is anyone thinking about building more of a turnkey
> >> approach (database, maps, apps, web services, etc) geared to local
> >> governments?  I like the direction of the OpenGeo platform (and others)
> >> trying to provide the whole software stack, but still if a small local
> >> government wants to have a full fledged interactive GIS, it might seem
> like
> >> a lot of work to develop and maintain.
> >>
> >> I am interested in other thoughts...perhaps this belongs on a blog post
> >> somewhere more independent, but perhaps this can be a place to begin.
> >>
> >> Steve G.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> View this message in context:
> http://osgeo-org.1560.x6.nabble.com/Local-Government-for-QGIS-tp5210489.html
> >> Sent from the Quantum GIS - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >> ___
> >> 

Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

[Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul)]

All,

I’ve been having these same sorts of thoughts for a couple of years or so.  The 
local gov infrastructure seems like the right customer base to insert a 
providers model into.

bobb


> On Jun 11, 2015, at 3:43 PM, Randal Hale  
> wrote:
> 
> I've contemplated the same thing. I've been working on an openforestry 
> template (which I'm failing to update on github) for that very reason (well 
> two - to see if I could do it and because I want to provide an alternative).
> 
> It's doable - it's just finding a coalition of the willing to start piecing 
> it together. ESRI does have a lock with all those models: small government, 
> utilities, forestry. Everyone gets roped in and then they get stuck. My 
> current shaking my head moment is the ESRI Parcel Fabric model. You get so 
> deep into that one on just the conversion work you'll never get out of it 
> cleanly (I assume - I've never tried).
> 
> QGIS is the desktop component to make that happen with a database backend 
> (right now for me it's postgresql/postgis). Support is the next biggie - 
> people want someone to call and yell at when it doesn't work.
> 
> My .02 cents,
> Randy
> 
> On 06/11/2015 04:28 PM, Steve G wrote:
>> I am not sure this is the correct forum for a start to this discussion, but
>> I've been pondering this for a while and interested what others think.  I
>> work for local government in the U.S. and when people generally talk about
>> GIS there is no doubt an automatic association with the ESRI ArcGIS
>> platform.  And beyond GIS itself, the dominance that ESRI has is even more
>> pronounced given the fact that many cities have implemented other related
>> systems (permitting, computer aided dispatch, etc) that are identified
>> business partners with ESRI.  Furthermore, the "GIS Local Government" track
>> that ESRI developed has evolved to offer an "turnkey" approach for local
>> government self-service to establish a robust geodatabase (Local Government
>> Information Model), maps, apps, web services, etc.  This extends a COTS
>> approach for local governments to establish, develop, and maintain a fairly
>> complete GIS.  In my opinion, pure genius...because for a lot of small
>> cities/governments with limited staff and budget, the turnkey approach is
>> very appealing.  For city bureaucrats thinking about implementing/extending
>> GIS, what they might think as little $$$ and you get all of this?
>> Awesome...here's my money.
>> 
>> HOWEVER, this approach has its drawbacks.  Long-term license/use costs,
>> vendor lock-in, continuous waiting for someone at the company to fix
>> somethingwell, the list goes on (just read any blog post supporting open
>> source/FOSS).
>> 
>> So, with the evolution of QGIS as a prevailing replacement/alternative for
>> the other product, is anyone thinking about building more of a turnkey
>> approach (database, maps, apps, web services, etc) geared to local
>> governments?  I like the direction of the OpenGeo platform (and others)
>> trying to provide the whole software stack, but still if a small local
>> government wants to have a full fledged interactive GIS, it might seem like
>> a lot of work to develop and maintain.
>> 
>> I am interested in other thoughts...perhaps this belongs on a blog post
>> somewhere more independent, but perhaps this can be a place to begin.
>> 
>> Steve G.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> View this message in context: 
>> http://osgeo-org.1560.x6.nabble.com/Local-Government-for-QGIS-tp5210489.html
>> Sent from the Quantum GIS - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> ___
>> Qgis-user mailing list
>> Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
> 
> -- 
> -
> Randal Hale
> North River Geographic Systems, Inc
> http://www.northrivergeographic.com
> 423.653.3611 rjh...@northrivergeographic.com
> twitter:rjhale http://about.me/rjhale
> http://www.northrivergeographic.com/introduction-to-quantum-gis
> Southeast OSGEO: http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Southeast_US
> 
> ___
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> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user

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Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

[James Keener]

I'm actually in the process of starting a company that sells GIS services
and consulting to municipalities.  I'm basing it on CartoDB for a web front
end, and then, unless they beg to use ESRI, QGIS for things like topology
and analysis.

I really do think there is room to break into the market, especially since
many municipalities are still using paper maps or just offload their GIS
needs to their default engineering firm.

I'm defiantly willing to help build software, models, documentation, &c
aimed around open source municipal GIS.

Jim

On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 4:43 PM, Randal Hale <
rjh...@northrivergeographic.com> wrote:

> I've contemplated the same thing. I've been working on an openforestry
> template (which I'm failing to update on github) for that very reason (well
> two - to see if I could do it and because I want to provide an alternative).
>
> It's doable - it's just finding a coalition of the willing to start
> piecing it together. ESRI does have a lock with all those models: small
> government, utilities, forestry. Everyone gets roped in and then they get
> stuck. My current shaking my head moment is the ESRI Parcel Fabric model.
> You get so deep into that one on just the conversion work you'll never get
> out of it cleanly (I assume - I've never tried).
>
> QGIS is the desktop component to make that happen with a database backend
> (right now for me it's postgresql/postgis). Support is the next biggie -
> people want someone to call and yell at when it doesn't work.
>
> My .02 cents,
> Randy
>
>
> On 06/11/2015 04:28 PM, Steve G wrote:
>
>> I am not sure this is the correct forum for a start to this discussion,
>> but
>> I've been pondering this for a while and interested what others think.  I
>> work for local government in the U.S. and when people generally talk about
>> GIS there is no doubt an automatic association with the ESRI ArcGIS
>> platform.  And beyond GIS itself, the dominance that ESRI has is even more
>> pronounced given the fact that many cities have implemented other related
>> systems (permitting, computer aided dispatch, etc) that are identified
>> business partners with ESRI.  Furthermore, the "GIS Local Government"
>> track
>> that ESRI developed has evolved to offer an "turnkey" approach for local
>> government self-service to establish a robust geodatabase (Local
>> Government
>> Information Model), maps, apps, web services, etc.  This extends a COTS
>> approach for local governments to establish, develop, and maintain a
>> fairly
>> complete GIS.  In my opinion, pure genius...because for a lot of small
>> cities/governments with limited staff and budget, the turnkey approach is
>> very appealing.  For city bureaucrats thinking about
>> implementing/extending
>> GIS, what they might think as little $$$ and you get all of this?
>> Awesome...here's my money.
>>
>> HOWEVER, this approach has its drawbacks.  Long-term license/use costs,
>> vendor lock-in, continuous waiting for someone at the company to fix
>> somethingwell, the list goes on (just read any blog post supporting
>> open
>> source/FOSS).
>>
>> So, with the evolution of QGIS as a prevailing replacement/alternative for
>> the other product, is anyone thinking about building more of a turnkey
>> approach (database, maps, apps, web services, etc) geared to local
>> governments?  I like the direction of the OpenGeo platform (and others)
>> trying to provide the whole software stack, but still if a small local
>> government wants to have a full fledged interactive GIS, it might seem
>> like
>> a lot of work to develop and maintain.
>>
>> I am interested in other thoughts...perhaps this belongs on a blog post
>> somewhere more independent, but perhaps this can be a place to begin.
>>
>> Steve G.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://osgeo-org.1560.x6.nabble.com/Local-Government-for-QGIS-tp5210489.html
>> Sent from the Quantum GIS - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> ___
>> Qgis-user mailing list
>> Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
>>
>
> --
> -
> Randal Hale
> North River Geographic Systems, Inc
> http://www.northrivergeographic.com
> 423.653.3611 rjh...@northrivergeographic.com
> twitter:rjhale http://about.me/rjhale
> http://www.northrivergeographic.com/introduction-to-quantum-gis
> Southeast OSGEO: http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Southeast_US
>
>
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>
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Re: [Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

[Randal Hale]

I've contemplated the same thing. I've been working on an openforestry 
template (which I'm failing to update on github) for that very reason 
(well two - to see if I could do it and because I want to provide an 
alternative).


It's doable - it's just finding a coalition of the willing to start 
piecing it together. ESRI does have a lock with all those models: small 
government, utilities, forestry. Everyone gets roped in and then they 
get stuck. My current shaking my head moment is the ESRI Parcel Fabric 
model. You get so deep into that one on just the conversion work you'll 
never get out of it cleanly (I assume - I've never tried).


QGIS is the desktop component to make that happen with a database 
backend (right now for me it's postgresql/postgis). Support is the next 
biggie - people want someone to call and yell at when it doesn't work.


My .02 cents,
Randy

On 06/11/2015 04:28 PM, Steve G wrote:

I am not sure this is the correct forum for a start to this discussion, but
I've been pondering this for a while and interested what others think.  I
work for local government in the U.S. and when people generally talk about
GIS there is no doubt an automatic association with the ESRI ArcGIS
platform.  And beyond GIS itself, the dominance that ESRI has is even more
pronounced given the fact that many cities have implemented other related
systems (permitting, computer aided dispatch, etc) that are identified
business partners with ESRI.  Furthermore, the "GIS Local Government" track
that ESRI developed has evolved to offer an "turnkey" approach for local
government self-service to establish a robust geodatabase (Local Government
Information Model), maps, apps, web services, etc.  This extends a COTS
approach for local governments to establish, develop, and maintain a fairly
complete GIS.  In my opinion, pure genius...because for a lot of small
cities/governments with limited staff and budget, the turnkey approach is
very appealing.  For city bureaucrats thinking about implementing/extending
GIS, what they might think as little $$$ and you get all of this?
Awesome...here's my money.

HOWEVER, this approach has its drawbacks.  Long-term license/use costs,
vendor lock-in, continuous waiting for someone at the company to fix
somethingwell, the list goes on (just read any blog post supporting open
source/FOSS).

So, with the evolution of QGIS as a prevailing replacement/alternative for
the other product, is anyone thinking about building more of a turnkey
approach (database, maps, apps, web services, etc) geared to local
governments?  I like the direction of the OpenGeo platform (and others)
trying to provide the whole software stack, but still if a small local
government wants to have a full fledged interactive GIS, it might seem like
a lot of work to develop and maintain.

I am interested in other thoughts...perhaps this belongs on a blog post
somewhere more independent, but perhaps this can be a place to begin.

Steve G.



--
View this message in context: 
http://osgeo-org.1560.x6.nabble.com/Local-Government-for-QGIS-tp5210489.html
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--
-
Randal Hale
North River Geographic Systems, Inc
http://www.northrivergeographic.com
423.653.3611 rjh...@northrivergeographic.com
twitter:rjhale http://about.me/rjhale
http://www.northrivergeographic.com/introduction-to-quantum-gis
Southeast OSGEO: http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Southeast_US

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[Qgis-user] Local Government for QGIS

[Steve G]

I am not sure this is the correct forum for a start to this discussion, but
I've been pondering this for a while and interested what others think.  I
work for local government in the U.S. and when people generally talk about
GIS there is no doubt an automatic association with the ESRI ArcGIS
platform.  And beyond GIS itself, the dominance that ESRI has is even more
pronounced given the fact that many cities have implemented other related
systems (permitting, computer aided dispatch, etc) that are identified
business partners with ESRI.  Furthermore, the "GIS Local Government" track
that ESRI developed has evolved to offer an "turnkey" approach for local
government self-service to establish a robust geodatabase (Local Government
Information Model), maps, apps, web services, etc.  This extends a COTS
approach for local governments to establish, develop, and maintain a fairly
complete GIS.  In my opinion, pure genius...because for a lot of small
cities/governments with limited staff and budget, the turnkey approach is
very appealing.  For city bureaucrats thinking about implementing/extending
GIS, what they might think as little $$$ and you get all of this? 
Awesome...here's my money. 

HOWEVER, this approach has its drawbacks.  Long-term license/use costs,
vendor lock-in, continuous waiting for someone at the company to fix
somethingwell, the list goes on (just read any blog post supporting open
source/FOSS).

So, with the evolution of QGIS as a prevailing replacement/alternative for
the other product, is anyone thinking about building more of a turnkey
approach (database, maps, apps, web services, etc) geared to local
governments?  I like the direction of the OpenGeo platform (and others)
trying to provide the whole software stack, but still if a small local
government wants to have a full fledged interactive GIS, it might seem like
a lot of work to develop and maintain.  

I am interested in other thoughts...perhaps this belongs on a blog post
somewhere more independent, but perhaps this can be a place to begin.

Steve G.



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