Re: [ql-users] Monitor connections
In case it's any use to anyone while on this subject, QL Today printed an article about connecting QLs to SCART socketed TVs. It was in QL Today Vol 4 Issue 3 (Sept 99) page 44, by Richard Cooke. -- Dilwyn Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.soft.net.uk/dj/index.html - Original Message - From: "Tony Firshman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: 11 July 2002 00:00 Subject: Re: [ql-users] Monitor connections > > On Wed, 10 Jul 2002 at 23:01:38, Robert Newson wrote: > (ref: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) > > > >>> Anyone care to hazard a guess as to which is right? Anyway, > >>> pin 5 won't have a signal if QL World is right. > >> QL Manual 12/84 concepts is the right one - which I assume was the > >>one quoted from QLW (snipped). > > > > > >My QL manual concepts section (12/84 - Pg 33) has: > > > > 1 - PAL > > 3 - VIDEO > > 4 - CSYNC > > 5 - VSYNC > > > Yep that is the right one. > >My QL World May 87, Pg 25 has: > > > > 1 - VIDEO > > 3 - PAL > > 4 - CSYNC > > 5 - N/C > > > Wrong > >My QL Service Manual has on the Circuit Diagram (both Issue 5 & 6): > > > > 1 - VIDEO > > 3 - PAL > > 4 - VSYNCH > > 5 - CSYNCL > Wrong > > > >and in Appendix A: > > > > 1 - PAL > > 3 - VIDEO > > 4 - CSYNC > > 5 - VSYNC > Right > > >What are the corrections - can u let me know please? > > > Well the monitor (of course) > > -12v mods to 8302 not on pcb > Some HAL connections missing (issue 6) > clock not adjustable (issue 6) > UHF out on modulator > > and I have labelled quite a bit, and put some other comments. > > > > -- > QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 >tony@.demon.co.uk http://www.firshman.demon.co.uk > Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 > TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG >
Re: [ql-users] Monitor connections
On Wed, 10 Jul 2002 at 23:01:38, Robert Newson wrote: (ref: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) >>> Anyone care to hazard a guess as to which is right? Anyway, >>> pin 5 won't have a signal if QL World is right. >> QL Manual 12/84 concepts is the right one - which I assume was the >>one quoted from QLW (snipped). > > >My QL manual concepts section (12/84 - Pg 33) has: > > 1 - PAL > 3 - VIDEO > 4 - CSYNC > 5 - VSYNC > Yep that is the right one. >My QL World May 87, Pg 25 has: > > 1 - VIDEO > 3 - PAL > 4 - CSYNC > 5 - N/C > Wrong >My QL Service Manual has on the Circuit Diagram (both Issue 5 & 6): > > 1 - VIDEO > 3 - PAL > 4 - VSYNCH > 5 - CSYNCL Wrong > >and in Appendix A: > > 1 - PAL > 3 - VIDEO > 4 - CSYNC > 5 - VSYNC Right >What are the corrections - can u let me know please? Well the monitor (of course) -12v mods to 8302 not on pcb Some HAL connections missing (issue 6) clock not adjustable (issue 6) UHF out on modulator and I have labelled quite a bit, and put some other comments. > -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@.demon.co.uk http://www.firshman.demon.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG
Re: [ql-users] Monitor connections
Tony Firshman wrote: > > On Wed, 10 Jul 2002 at 11:01:02, Alan Tyson wrote: > (ref: <001101c227f9$107a84c0$fb30883e@alantyso>) > >> >>> This can be dangerous, not only to him, but to the monitor >> >> & QL - he could >> >>> end up frying either or both of them. >>> >> Thanks for the warning. He's pretty clued up as an Elec.Eng. >> lecturer by trade, and his house has had live TV & radio >> chassis lying around more time than not over the years. Stupid question (ie it's been ages since I played with these things): As the QL uses TTL levels for display (RGB) output, could a set of buffer chips be put between the output pins (of the DIN socket) of the QL and the input to the monitor. Thus, if a wrong connection was made, these buffer chips would get fried in preference to the QL output? >>> However, there appears to [possibly] be a mistake in the >> manual, as the pin >>> functions were given in 'QL world' (May 1987) differently: >> >> Is it possible the QL World version came from "p31 of the >> Concepts section of the QL User guide"? The 15MB QL Service >> Manual says in para 1.1 of page A1 under "monitor >> connections" that its version replaces those in the User >> Guide. Having just read them in parallel (Appendix A of service manual 1.2-1.5, pages A1/A2, and QL Manual Concepts page 33 [tho']), they are identical. >> >> Anyone care to hazard a guess as to which is right? Anyway, >> pin 5 won't have a signal if QL World is right. > > QL Manual 12/84 concepts is the right one - which I assume was the one > quoted from QLW (snipped). My QL manual concepts section (12/84 - Pg 33) has: 1 - PAL 3 - VIDEO 4 - CSYNC 5 - VSYNC My QL World May 87, Pg 25 has: 1 - VIDEO 3 - PAL 4 - CSYNC 5 - N/C My QL Service Manual has on the Circuit Diagram (both Issue 5 & 6): 1 - VIDEO 3 - PAL 4 - VSYNCH 5 - CSYNCL and in Appendix A: 1 - PAL 3 - VIDEO 4 - CSYNC 5 - VSYNC And from what I remember (when I hacked my B/W Phillips TX TV to have a monitor [composite video] input) in testing the outputs of the QL with an oscilloscope - displaying the vertical bar test card: MODE 8 OPEN#3,SCR512x256a0x0 FOR i=0 to 7:PAPER#3,I:PAN#3,-32 I think QLW has it right: 1 - VIDEO, 3 - PAL (ie the colour modulation occurs on Pin 3). > The circuit diagram (in the downloaded service manual) got it worng (but > is also not very legible)! > > I have corrected circuit diagrams (correcting a few other errors too) if > needed. What are the corrections - can u let me know please?
Re: [ql-users] Monitor connections
On Wed, 10 Jul 2002 at 11:01:02, Alan Tyson wrote: (ref: <001101c227f9$107a84c0$fb30883e@alantyso>) > >> This can be dangerous, not only to him, but to the monitor >& QL - he could >> end up frying either or both of them. >> >Thanks for the warning. He's pretty clued up as an Elec.Eng. >lecturer by trade, and his house has had live TV & radio >chassis lying around more time than not over the years. > >[One of my earliest memories is watching the coronation in >1953 on a 6" green screen, which he'd built from an ex-WD >radar set using circuit diagrams from 'Practical Wireless'. >I got into trouble (not hospital, remarkably) for poking >something through one of the holes in the front of the case >and losing it.] > >> However, there appears to [possibly] be a mistake in the >manual, as the pin >> functions were given in 'QL world' (May 1987) differently: > >Is it possible the QL World version came from "p31 of the >Concepts section of the QL User guide"? The 15MB QL Service >Manual says in para 1.1 of page A1 under "monitor >connections" that its version replaces those in the User >Guide. > >Anyone care to hazard a guess as to which is right? Anyway, >pin 5 won't have a signal if QL World is right. QL Manual 12/84 concepts is the right one - which I assume was the one quoted from QLW (snipped). The circuit diagram (in the downloaded service manual) got it worng (but is also not very legible)! I have corrected circuit diagrams (correcting a few other errors too) if needed. -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@.demon.co.uk http://www.firshman.demon.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG
Re: [ql-users] Monitor connections
> This can be dangerous, not only to him, but to the monitor & QL - he could > end up frying either or both of them. > Thanks for the warning. He's pretty clued up as an Elec.Eng. lecturer by trade, and his house has had live TV & radio chassis lying around more time than not over the years. [One of my earliest memories is watching the coronation in 1953 on a 6" green screen, which he'd built from an ex-WD radar set using circuit diagrams from 'Practical Wireless'. I got into trouble (not hospital, remarkably) for poking something through one of the holes in the front of the case and losing it.] > However, there appears to [possibly] be a mistake in the manual, as the pin > functions were given in 'QL world' (May 1987) differently: Is it possible the QL World version came from "p31 of the Concepts section of the QL User guide"? The 15MB QL Service Manual says in para 1.1 of page A1 under "monitor connections" that its version replaces those in the User Guide. Anyone care to hazard a guess as to which is right? Anyway, pin 5 won't have a signal if QL World is right. Regards, Alan T - Original Message - From: Robert Newson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 9:11 PM Subject: Re: [ql-users] Monitor connections
Re: [ql-users] Monitor connections
On Tue, 9 Jul 2002 at 21:11:28, Robert Newson wrote: (ref: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) > >Tony Firshman wrote: > >> On Tue, 9 Jul 2002 at 03:30:56, Alan Tyson wrote: >> (ref: <001b01c226f0$a81a5620$3a51883e@alantyso>) >> >>>My 86-yr-old father in S.Wales (I'm near Chester) acquired a >>>s/h QL about 10yrs ago, which has kept him well amused. He >>>used a selection from his many ancient TVs as monitors until >>>recently, when the last old wreck died, despite much >>>tinkering. His interest has been revitalised by a double >>>cataract operation, so now he can see what he's doing. >>> >>>A kindly neighbour has given him an old monitor with a 7-pin >>>DIN socket on the back. Its manufacturer is "St Bernadette, >>>Made in Singapore". We don't even know if it's monochrome or >>>colour. >>> >> Google search found 'St Bernadette' school who 'monitor staff' (8-)# >> ie found nothing on the web. >> Any more details like model ID? >> >>>My Dad tells me there's a 7-pin DIN socket on the back of >>>the QL, > > >I'd better check that again...AFAIK all QLs have a 8-pin DIN. Whoops - I hadn't noticed he said that. Yes - of course the QL has an 8 pin DIN. -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@.demon.co.uk http://www.firshman.demon.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG
Re: [ql-users] Monitor connections
Tony Firshman wrote: > On Tue, 9 Jul 2002 at 03:30:56, Alan Tyson wrote: > (ref: <001b01c226f0$a81a5620$3a51883e@alantyso>) > >>My 86-yr-old father in S.Wales (I'm near Chester) acquired a >>s/h QL about 10yrs ago, which has kept him well amused. He >>used a selection from his many ancient TVs as monitors until >>recently, when the last old wreck died, despite much >>tinkering. His interest has been revitalised by a double >>cataract operation, so now he can see what he's doing. >> >>A kindly neighbour has given him an old monitor with a 7-pin >>DIN socket on the back. Its manufacturer is "St Bernadette, >>Made in Singapore". We don't even know if it's monochrome or >>colour. >> > Google search found 'St Bernadette' school who 'monitor staff' (8-)# > > ie found nothing on the web. > > Any more details like model ID? > >>My Dad tells me there's a 7-pin DIN socket on the back of >>the QL, I'd better check that again...AFAIK all QLs have a 8-pin DIN. Here you have to be VERY careful. Sinclair assigned BLUE to the centre pin, but some/a lot of TV manufacturers who also put an 8-pin DIN on their equipment assigned +ve to this pin. The result being that putting the connecting cable in the wrong way round could cause the QL to be fried. [One cable supplier for the QL always supplied 8-pin for the QL end and 7-pin for the TV end.] > and the QL web site tells me there's RGB and >>composite video output. A former colleague who dealt with >>the audiovisuals where we both worked tells me it's quite >>likely that either a straight-through or a crossover 7-pin >>DIN plug to 7-pin DIN plug lead might miraculously work >>(courtesy of St Bernadette). CPC claim to supply such >>(straight-through) leads for 1.02 ukpounds, but whether >>they'll sell me a single one at a reasonable price I don't >>know. >> >>What do list members think? Can anyone provide me with a >>pinout diagram for the RGB or composite video QL outputs? The QL uses an 8-Pin DIN (circular, not offset) connector, as viewed from outside the QL/solder side of plug: --- / 7 ^ 6 \ ^ = locating notch / 3 1 \ |8|1-8 = Numbered pins \ 5 4 / \ 2 / --- However, there appears to [possibly] be a mistake in the manual, as the pin functions were given in 'QL world' (May 1987) differently: Pin Manual QL World 1 Composite PAL Monocrome (b/w) video 2 GroundGround 3 Composite Monocrome PAL colour video 4 Composite SyncComposite Sync 5 Vertical Sync [No connection] 6 Green Green 7 Red Red 8 Blue Blue The main difference being that Black/White and Colour composites are swapped and Vertical sync doesn't actually do anything. > Do >>we stand a cat in QL's chance of success? My Dad is very >>happy sticking bits of wire in the individual socket holes >>to try things out if necessary. This can be dangerous, not only to him, but to the monitor & QL - he could end up frying either or both of them. > I think it very very very very unlikely it is a straight through > connector - there are too many permutations. > > Sinclair was the sort of guy who specialised in making apparently std > sockets, non-standard - ie 9D serial connector > > Sticking wires in pins could be dodgy. Find the GND pin first using > continuity meter (with power off). I will stop here - I reckon it would > be pretty dodgy trying at random. Is there no existing lead? At least > then you can see active connections.
Re: [ql-users] Monitor connections
On Tue, 9 Jul 2002 at 03:30:56, Alan Tyson wrote: (ref: <001b01c226f0$a81a5620$3a51883e@alantyso>) > >My 86-yr-old father in S.Wales (I'm near Chester) acquired a >s/h QL about 10yrs ago, which has kept him well amused. He >used a selection from his many ancient TVs as monitors until >recently, when the last old wreck died, despite much >tinkering. His interest has been revitalised by a double >cataract operation, so now he can see what he's doing. > >A kindly neighbour has given him an old monitor with a 7-pin >DIN socket on the back. Its manufacturer is "St Bernadette, >Made in Singapore". We don't even know if it's monochrome or >colour. Google search found 'St Bernadette' school who 'monitor staff' (8-)# ie found nothing on the web. Any more details like model ID? > >My Dad tells me there's a 7-pin DIN socket on the back of >the QL, and the QL web site tells me there's RGB and >composite video output. A former colleague who dealt with >the audiovisuals where we both worked tells me it's quite >likely that either a straight-through or a crossover 7-pin >DIN plug to 7-pin DIN plug lead might miraculously work >(courtesy of St Bernadette). CPC claim to supply such >(straight-through) leads for 1.02 ukpounds, but whether >they'll sell me a single one at a reasonable price I don't >know. > >What do list members think? Can anyone provide me with a >pinout diagram for the RGB or composite video QL outputs? Do >we stand a cat in QL's chance of success? My Dad is very >happy sticking bits of wire in the individual socket holes >to try things out if necessary. I think it very very very very unlikely it is a straight through connector - there are too many permutations. Sinclair was the sort of guy who specialised in making apparently std sockets, non-standard - ie 9D serial connector. Sticking wires in pins could be dodgy. Find the GND pin first using continuity meter (with power off). I will stop here - I reckon it would be pretty dodgy trying at random. Is there no existing lead? At least then you can see active connections. -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@.demon.co.uk http://www.firshman.demon.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG
[ql-users] Monitor connections
My 86-yr-old father in S.Wales (I'm near Chester) acquired a s/h QL about 10yrs ago, which has kept him well amused. He used a selection from his many ancient TVs as monitors until recently, when the last old wreck died, despite much tinkering. His interest has been revitalised by a double cataract operation, so now he can see what he's doing. A kindly neighbour has given him an old monitor with a 7-pin DIN socket on the back. Its manufacturer is "St Bernadette, Made in Singapore". We don't even know if it's monochrome or colour. My Dad tells me there's a 7-pin DIN socket on the back of the QL, and the QL web site tells me there's RGB and composite video output. A former colleague who dealt with the audiovisuals where we both worked tells me it's quite likely that either a straight-through or a crossover 7-pin DIN plug to 7-pin DIN plug lead might miraculously work (courtesy of St Bernadette). CPC claim to supply such (straight-through) leads for 1.02 ukpounds, but whether they'll sell me a single one at a reasonable price I don't know. What do list members think? Can anyone provide me with a pinout diagram for the RGB or composite video QL outputs? Do we stand a cat in QL's chance of success? My Dad is very happy sticking bits of wire in the individual socket holes to try things out if necessary. Alan Tyson
