Re: qmail and > 4,000 users ?
> Actually, there are about 9k of them in the default domain, and virtual domain > support was done via alias/fastforward (leftover from an old sun setup qmail by > another admin). So 9k in one vpasswd right now. I'm pushing them out into > individual vpasswd files one at a time as each customer has to change settings on > their end to access mail after converted.. It runs fine with 9k users in a > single file so far. Ah, that answers my questions. R.
Re: qmail and > 4,000 users ?
Actually, there are about 9k of them in the default domain, and virtual domain support was done via alias/fastforward (leftover from an old sun setup qmail by another admin). So 9k in one vpasswd right now. I'm pushing them out into individual vpasswd files one at a time as each customer has to change settings on their end to access mail after converted.. It runs fine with 9k users in a single file so far. Regards, Steve Robin Bowes wrote: > > Vchkpw handles 10k users just fine in it's current version. I'm running > 200 > > virtual domains totaling about 10k pop accounts on a p2/300 with 256mb > ram, > > I'm speculating here (I know, I know... :o) but if you have 200 virtual > domains with 10k users total, that's an average of 50 users per vpasswd > file. If there is only 1 virtual domain (as in the example) then there > would be 10k users in vpasswd. > > > a couple scsi-2 drives, Apache 1.3.4, SQWebmail 0.20 on FreeBSD 3.1 and it > > runs like a top. No complaints in the slightest from here as far as > > performance goes. I was thinking of looking at hacking vchkpw to handle a > > cdb style password file instead of flat text however. While I'm doing fine > > now, the business is growing and I want to be sure I can continue when I > > hit 15k+. > > Sounds like this may be a useful patch to have. > > R. > > > Steve > > > > Robin Bowes writes: > > > This isn't an answer to the original question - just some thoughts... > > > > > > How would vchkpw perform in this situation? > (http://www.inter7.com/vchkpw/) > > > Presumably, the vpasswd file would be the bottleneck? Is it possible to > use > > > vchkpw with a DB of some sort, eg CDB? Presumably, this would involve > > > hacking vchkpw appropriately? > > > > > > R. > > > > > > Chris McCarthy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > > > My company wants to provide users on the internet with a free email > > > > service ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). We'll be starting off with about > > > > 3,000 users, potentially growing up to 10,000 in the next 12 months. > > > > > > > > How feasible is it to create a passwd/shadow entry for each user, > > > > providing them with POP/IMAP access ? (or maybe just pop if imap puts > > > > too much load on the server). > > > > > > > > With the passwd and shadow files containing so many entries, will the > > > > password lookups take forever ? > > > > > > > > Our current server spec is a PIII 400, 256M, but we'll replace it with > a > > > > high spec server if/when needed. > > > > > > > > Does this sound OK, or should we look at buying (or developing) > hotmail > > > > style software instead ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Any ideas/comments appreciated, > > > > .Chris. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Stephen Comoletti Systems Administrator Delanet, Inc. http://www.delanet.com ph: (302) 326-5800 fax: (302) 326-5802
Re: qmail and > 4,000 users ?
> Vchkpw handles 10k users just fine in it's current version. I'm running 200 > virtual domains totaling about 10k pop accounts on a p2/300 with 256mb ram, I'm speculating here (I know, I know... :o) but if you have 200 virtual domains with 10k users total, that's an average of 50 users per vpasswd file. If there is only 1 virtual domain (as in the example) then there would be 10k users in vpasswd. > a couple scsi-2 drives, Apache 1.3.4, SQWebmail 0.20 on FreeBSD 3.1 and it > runs like a top. No complaints in the slightest from here as far as > performance goes. I was thinking of looking at hacking vchkpw to handle a > cdb style password file instead of flat text however. While I'm doing fine > now, the business is growing and I want to be sure I can continue when I > hit 15k+. Sounds like this may be a useful patch to have. R. > Steve > > Robin Bowes writes: > > This isn't an answer to the original question - just some thoughts... > > > > How would vchkpw perform in this situation? (http://www.inter7.com/vchkpw/) > > Presumably, the vpasswd file would be the bottleneck? Is it possible to use > > vchkpw with a DB of some sort, eg CDB? Presumably, this would involve > > hacking vchkpw appropriately? > > > > R. > > > > Chris McCarthy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > > My company wants to provide users on the internet with a free email > > > service ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). We'll be starting off with about > > > 3,000 users, potentially growing up to 10,000 in the next 12 months. > > > > > > How feasible is it to create a passwd/shadow entry for each user, > > > providing them with POP/IMAP access ? (or maybe just pop if imap puts > > > too much load on the server). > > > > > > With the passwd and shadow files containing so many entries, will the > > > password lookups take forever ? > > > > > > Our current server spec is a PIII 400, 256M, but we'll replace it with a > > > high spec server if/when needed. > > > > > > Does this sound OK, or should we look at buying (or developing) hotmail > > > style software instead ? > > > > > > > > > Any ideas/comments appreciated, > > > .Chris. > > > > > > > > > > >
Re: qmail and > 4,000 users ?
Vchkpw handles 10k users just fine in it's current version. I'm running 200 virtual domains totaling about 10k pop accounts on a p2/300 with 256mb ram, a couple scsi-2 drives, Apache 1.3.4, SQWebmail 0.20 on FreeBSD 3.1 and it runs like a top. No complaints in the slightest from here as far as performance goes. I was thinking of looking at hacking vchkpw to handle a cdb style password file instead of flat text however. While I'm doing fine now, the business is growing and I want to be sure I can continue when I hit 15k+. Steve Robin Bowes writes: > This isn't an answer to the original question - just some thoughts... > > How would vchkpw perform in this situation? (http://www.inter7.com/vchkpw/) > Presumably, the vpasswd file would be the bottleneck? Is it possible to use > vchkpw with a DB of some sort, eg CDB? Presumably, this would involve > hacking vchkpw appropriately? > > R. > > Chris McCarthy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > My company wants to provide users on the internet with a free email > > service ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). We'll be starting off with about > > 3,000 users, potentially growing up to 10,000 in the next 12 months. > > > > How feasible is it to create a passwd/shadow entry for each user, > > providing them with POP/IMAP access ? (or maybe just pop if imap puts > > too much load on the server). > > > > With the passwd and shadow files containing so many entries, will the > > password lookups take forever ? > > > > Our current server spec is a PIII 400, 256M, but we'll replace it with a > > high spec server if/when needed. > > > > Does this sound OK, or should we look at buying (or developing) hotmail > > style software instead ? > > > > > > Any ideas/comments appreciated, > > .Chris. > > > > > >
Re: qmail and > 4,000 users ?
This isn't an answer to the original question - just some thoughts... How would vchkpw perform in this situation? (http://www.inter7.com/vchkpw/) Presumably, the vpasswd file would be the bottleneck? Is it possible to use vchkpw with a DB of some sort, eg CDB? Presumably, this would involve hacking vchkpw appropriately? R. Chris McCarthy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > My company wants to provide users on the internet with a free email > service ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). We'll be starting off with about > 3,000 users, potentially growing up to 10,000 in the next 12 months. > > How feasible is it to create a passwd/shadow entry for each user, > providing them with POP/IMAP access ? (or maybe just pop if imap puts > too much load on the server). > > With the passwd and shadow files containing so many entries, will the > password lookups take forever ? > > Our current server spec is a PIII 400, 256M, but we'll replace it with a > high spec server if/when needed. > > Does this sound OK, or should we look at buying (or developing) hotmail > style software instead ? > > > Any ideas/comments appreciated, > .Chris. > >
Re: qmail and > 4,000 users ?
On Mon, 6 Sep 1999, Chris McCarthy wrote: > With the passwd and shadow files containing so many entries, will the > password lookups take forever ? Maybe not forever, but with lotsa mail going through, it's definitely going to be a bottleneck. > Does this sound OK, or should we look at buying (or developing) hotmail > style software instead ? You don't need to buy anything. Just use some user account database.
Re: qmail and > 4,000 users ?
> > >Our current server spec is a PIII 400, 256M, but we'll replace it with a > > >high spec server if/when needed. > > > > Of course the number of users only provides a vague hint as to the likely > > load. 10,000 corporate users typically hit a mail system a lot hard then > > 10,000 freemail systems. > >Yes, but a PIII 400, 256M (how much disk space??) should be plenty of >machine for 10K users. I've got a customer with about that much >machine serving about that many users. P2 - 256, 128k RAM, 8 gig scsi raid storage, serves 4000 users and few mailing litst here. And it works in REALTIME :) That's about speed. Kris
Re: qmail and > 4,000 users ?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > >Our current server spec is a PIII 400, 256M, but we'll replace it with a > >high spec server if/when needed. > > Of course the number of users only provides a vague hint as to the likely > load. 10,000 corporate users typically hit a mail system a lot hard then > 10,000 freemail systems. Yes, but a PIII 400, 256M (how much disk space??) should be plenty of machine for 10K users. I've got a customer with about that much machine serving about that many users. -- -russ nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://russnelson.com Crynwr sells support for free software | PGPok | Government schools are so 521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315 268 1925 voice | bad that any rank amateur Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | +1 315 268 9201 FAX | can outdo them. Homeschool!
Re: qmail and > 4,000 users ?
Chris McCarthy wrote: > > My company wants to provide users on the internet with a free email > service ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). We'll be starting off with about > 3,000 users, potentially growing up to 10,000 in the next 12 months. > > How feasible is it to create a passwd/shadow entry for each user, > providing them with POP/IMAP access ? (or maybe just pop if imap puts > too much load on the server). A POP demon is included w/ qmail, but IMAP is an entirely different story. Though 10K users can be handled using /etc/passwd without problems, you should consider qmail-ldap. It will give you flexibility, scalability and ease administration once you're familiar with it. > > With the passwd and shadow files containing so many entries, will the > password lookups take forever ? > > Our current server spec is a PIII 400, 256M, but we'll replace it with a > high spec server if/when needed. > > Does this sound OK, or should we look at buying (or developing) hotmail > style software instead ? > > Any ideas/comments appreciated, > ..Chris. Markus begin:vcard n:Storm;Markus tel;fax:++49 +5241 80-67867 tel;work:++49 +5241 80-7867 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:mediaWays GmbH;NTM-T adr:;;Postfach 185;Guetersloh;;33311;Germany version:2.1 email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] x-mozilla-cpt:ils.mediaways.net;-20832 fn:Markus Storm end:vcard
Re: qmail and > 4,000 users ?
On Mon, 6 Sep 1999, Chris McCarthy wrote: > My company wants to provide users on the internet with a free email > service ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). We'll be starting off with about > 3,000 users, potentially growing up to 10,000 in the next 12 months. It's quite common nowadays. Just keep in mind that Linux (and SCO OpenServer) supports only 32767 userids (~32200 users by default) due of uid_t's definition (signed short). Other systems (as Sun Solaris, HP/HPUX, IBM/AIX) supports much more (2147483648) because of defining uid_t as int. Thus, if your planned system would use more than 3 users, you could decide if you want to use a tougher system, or use virtual hosting. > How feasible is it to create a passwd/shadow entry for each user, > providing them with POP/IMAP access ? (or maybe just pop if imap puts > too much load on the server). In modern systems this data is cached or accessed by a database manager. For example if you turn off pam in RedHat 6.0, you can use the database feature of /var/db (it hashes /etc/group, /etc/passwd, /etc/shadow and rpc, protocols, services list). You can turn'em on and off by /etc/nsswitch.conf. If you want to use these gdbm hashes, I recommend you to use a non-pam distribution of Linux. Or you can use LDAP or SQL authentication system for virtual serving. This sounds OK, but beware of spreading out authorization and authentication data. This way you can easily set up a POP3 daemon on an ethernet alias port with your special checkpassword (with PAM and the pam_ldap module). Maybe this is the most cost-effective way if you want to give complete solution to your users (POP3, maybe IMAP, central address book). > Does this sound OK, or should we look at buying (or developing) hotmail > style software instead ? The web interface is the bottleneck. If you have enough resources to build one, or you can hire someone to who has, that's good. There are a lot of this kind of interface on the net, whcih can be good for you. BTW I don't encourage you to use web interface, unless it's a requirement. I like an IMAP-like service much better. -- Regards: Kevin (Balazs)
Re: qmail and > 4,000 users ?
On Mon, Sep 06, 1999 at 02:10:49PM +0100, Chris McCarthy wrote: > My company wants to provide users on the internet with a free email > service ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). We'll be starting off with about > 3,000 users, potentially growing up to 10,000 in the next 12 months. 10,000 isn't that big a number. qmail should be able to handle that easily. > How feasible is it to create a passwd/shadow entry for each user, > providing them with POP/IMAP access ? (or maybe just pop if imap puts > too much load on the server). putting all those users into passwd/shadow may very well work, but it would depend highly on the OS. Some OS's like solaris have a text passwd/shadow file, which needs to be scanned linearly every time a lookup is required, and it starts to get slow as the numbers of entries increase, especially if it is not cached in memory. the BSDs build their passwd file into a DB for fast lookups. You might want to investigate that. A better idea would be to put your users into a CDB, which can be looked up very quickly. Look around on the qmail homepage for checkpasswords that use CDB, and ideas on building a POP toaster using a single unix uid. > With the passwd and shadow files containing so many entries, will the > password lookups take forever ? > > Our current server spec is a PIII 400, 256M, but we'll replace it with a > high spec server if/when needed. Should be OK to start with. You may want to add more memory to it later, but if it's only doing email, it should be just fine. More importantly, you should be using fast SCSI disks with it. -- See complete headers for more info
Re: qmail and > 4,000 users ?
At 02:10 PM 9/6/99 +0100, Chris McCarthy wrote: >My company wants to provide users on the internet with a free email >service ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). We'll be starting off with about >3,000 users, potentially growing up to 10,000 in the next 12 months. 10,000 is not very many. > >How feasible is it to create a passwd/shadow entry for each user, >providing them with POP/IMAP access ? (or maybe just pop if imap puts >too much load on the server). Entirely feasible. What problems do you anticipate in creating users? >With the passwd and shadow files containing so many entries, will the >password lookups take forever ? You don't say which OS you're using, but a number of them have an optimized /etc/passwd lookup. Failing that you can use the qmail/users database which can be cron-ologically derived from /etc/passwd. > >Our current server spec is a PIII 400, 256M, but we'll replace it with a >high spec server if/when needed. > >Does this sound OK, or should we look at buying (or developing) hotmail >style software instead ? An amount of hotmail-like s/w actually uses POP to connect to the mail system (which seems entirely sensible to me) so unless you purchase one that directly reads your mail store, the advantages of a web-based mail interface would be functional ones, not performance/load ones. >Any ideas/comments appreciated, Of course the number of users only provides a vague hint as to the likely load. 10,000 corporate users typically hit a mail system a lot hard then 10,000 freemail systems. Regards.
qmail and > 4,000 users ?
My company wants to provide users on the internet with a free email service ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). We'll be starting off with about 3,000 users, potentially growing up to 10,000 in the next 12 months. How feasible is it to create a passwd/shadow entry for each user, providing them with POP/IMAP access ? (or maybe just pop if imap puts too much load on the server). With the passwd and shadow files containing so many entries, will the password lookups take forever ? Our current server spec is a PIII 400, 256M, but we'll replace it with a high spec server if/when needed. Does this sound OK, or should we look at buying (or developing) hotmail style software instead ? Any ideas/comments appreciated, ..Chris. begin:vcard n:McCarthy;Chris tel;cell:+353 86 8209078 tel;fax:+353 86 9209078 x-mozilla-html:TRUE org:Contractor adr:;;;Cork;;;IRELAND version:2.1 email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Software Engineer fn:Chris McCarthy end:vcard
