Re: RES: [qmailtoaster] Re: Qmail-inject issue

2011-03-29 Thread Martin Waschbüsch IT-Dienstleistungen
Hi all,

I sometimes have the same kind of entry in the logs:

grep -R -i 'inject' /var/log/qmail/send/*

comes up with entries such as this:

/var/log/qmail/send/@40004cac830228d80ff4.s:@40004ca982cb35955a94 
delivery 291: failure: 
qmail-inject:_fatal:_unable_to_parse_this_line:/Cc:_cdshummar...@waschbuesch.de,/_mar...@waschbuesch.de;_Mon,_4_Oct_2010_09:31:12_+0200/system_error_calling_qmail-inject/

The interesting thing is that I always have that when mails seem to have 
multiple recipients and one of them is clearly fake: 
cdshummar...@waschbuesch.de is not one of my users while 
mar...@waschbuesch.de is.

I also attached an error message that goes with such errors.

Please note that I have never yet seen this if it was not a spam mail anyway, 
so I never investigated further.

Perhaps that helps?

Martin


--
Martin Waschbüsch
IT-Dienstleistungen
Lautensackstr. 16
80687 München

Telefon: +49 89 57005708
Fax: +49 89 57868023
Mobil: +49 170 2189794
serv...@waschbuesch.it
http://www.waschbuesch.it
---BeginMessage---
Hi. This is the qmail-send program at hydra.waschbuesch.de.
I tried to deliver a bounce message to this address, but the bounce bounced!

er...@mailfrom.com:
Sorry, I wasn't able to establish an SMTP connection. (#4.4.1)
I'm not going to try again; this message has been in the queue too long.

--- Below this line is the original bounce.

Return-Path: 
Received: (qmail 2830 invoked for bounce); 4 Oct 2010 07:31:13 -
Date: 4 Oct 2010 07:31:13 -
From: mailer-dae...@hydra.waschbuesch.de
To: er...@mailfrom.com
Subject: failure notice

Hi. This is the qmail-send program at hydra.waschbuesch.de.
I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses.
This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.

i...@waschbuesch.de:
qmail-inject: fatal: unable to parse this line:
Cc: cdshummar...@waschbuesch.de,
mar...@waschbuesch.de; Mon, 4 Oct 2010 09:31:12 +0200
system error calling qmail-inject

--- Below this line is a copy of the message.

Return-Path: er...@mailfrom.com
Received: (qmail 2806 invoked by uid 89); 4 Oct 2010 07:31:13 -
Received: by simscan 1.4.0 ppid: 2799, pid: 2800, t: 23.6234s
 scanners: attach: 1.4.0 clamav: 0.96.3/m:52/d:12005 spam: 3.2.5
X-Spam-Flag: YES
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on
serv01.waschbuesch.de
X-Spam-Level: ***
X-Spam-Status: Yes, score=3.6 required=2.0 tests=BAYES_99,HTML_MESSAGE,
RDNS_NONE autolearn=no version=3.2.5
X-Spam-Report: 
*  3.5 BAYES_99 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 99 to 100%
*  [score: 1.]
*  0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message
*  0.1 RDNS_NONE Delivered to trusted network by a host with no rDNS
Received: from unknown (HELO ?95.86.101.2?) (95.86.101.2)
  by hydra.waschbuesch.de with SMTP; 4 Oct 2010 07:30:50 -
Received-SPF: none (hydra.waschbuesch.de: domain at mailfrom.com does not 
designate permitted sender hosts)
Received: from [132.51.125.15] (helo=ybqmocxuyk.jmznfn.va)
by  with esmtpa (Exim 4.69)
(envelope-from )
id 1MMNII-6917ai-41
for andre...@waschbuesch.de,
andrea...@waschbuesch.de,
andr...@waschbuesch.de,
i...@waschbuesch.de
Cc: cdshummar...@waschbuesch.de,
mar...@waschbuesch.de; Mon, 4 Oct 2010 09:31:12 +0200
From: Benjamin Lay carterzotyv...@imperial-software.de 
To: andre...@waschbuesch.de,
andrea...@waschbuesch.de,
andr...@waschbuesch.de,
i...@waschbuesch.de
Cc: cdshummar...@waschbuesch.de,
mar...@waschbuesch.de
Subject: Die Armbanduhren sind viel billiger online!
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 09:31:12 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary==_fxxoamnvl_49_47_27
X-Priority: 3
X-Mailer: rmhuzwmu.96
Message-ID: 2033986661.weil69lr106...@pvurl.pbmgh.va

--=_fxxoamnvl_49_47_27
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=iso-8859-2
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Die Brand Original Chronometer aus der Schweiz sind zu teuer geldfressend=
, aber Menschen respektieren achten deren Besitzer. erwerben Sie eine Kop=
ie von einer Brand und kriegen Sie alle Privilegien der Elite ohne ein ga=
nzes Vermoegen zu bezahlen.http://bit.ly/95d0yz
--=_fxxoamnvl_49_47_27
Content-Type: text/html;
charset=iso-8859-2
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN
HTMLHEAD
META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3Dtext/html; charset=3Diso-8859-=
2
STYLE/STYLE
/HEAD
BODY
html
body bgcolor=3D#FF link=3Dgreen
font face=3DVerdana size=3D2Die Brand Original Chronometer aus der =
Schweiz sind zu teuer geldfressend, aber Menschen respektieren achten der=
en Besitzer. erwerben Sie eine Kopie von einer Brand und kriegen Sie alle=
 Privilegien der Elite ohne ein ganzes Vermoegen zu bezahlen./fontbr=
br
font face=3DVerdana size=3D2a href=3Dhttp://bit.ly/95d0yz; target=

[qmailtoaster] Re: Dovecot 2.0.11 rpms for QMT available

2011-03-29 Thread Eric Shubert
Thanks, Michael. I've added a reference to this on the QTP wiki under 
the Utilities section.


Just so people know, fetchmail supports IMAP as well, and can be used to 
do several of the things these scripts do. Fetchmail is pretty versatile.


--
-Eric 'shubes'

On 03/28/2011 05:20 PM, Michael J. Colvin wrote:

Just the one I recommended to Scott...  I've used it a couple times to
migrate users from one server to another, usually from a server I don't
control to one I do...when acquiring new users from another ISP...

But, it's also good for migrating from non-qmail servers where filesystems,
etc are different...

There's one other that I use that does single accounts. I use this when
someone moves to our service and wants to pull their existing mail from
another provider and maintain the folder structure...

Since both of these work by basically logging in via IMAP and pulling the
mail, it seems to work pretty reliably, although it's been a while since
I've needed to use them for moving people.  Seems most people don't use
their ISP mail anymore, preferring to use Gmail or something.  But, I do
find it useful for pulling hosting customer's mail...

But, if you look through that page, you might find some that you can think
of that may be useful for other people/other implementations of QMT.  There
are scripts to sync accounts, moving from maildir and Mbox to IMAP,
etc...Although I've never used them.  The creator of the scripts is/was very
helpful.  I had an issue with one of the scritps, e-mailed him, and we went
back/forth for a few day with him making changes, and me testing until it
worked...  I was kind of surprised.  :-)

http://www.athensfbc.com/imap_tools

Mike


-Original Message-
From: Eric Shubert [mailto:e...@shubes.net]
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 4:59 PM
To: qmailtoaster-list@qmailtoaster.com
Subject: [qmailtoaster] Re: Dovecot 2.0.11 rpms for QMT available

On 03/28/2011 04:51 PM, Michael J. Colvin wrote:

No problem.  Let me know.  I like to keep track of scripts that I use to

see

if they work for others too.

Mike


Mike,

Are there any you have of know of which would be appropriate additions
to QTP?





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[qmailtoaster] qtp-backup

2011-03-29 Thread Scott Hughes
I was just curious. I am testing qtp-backup to see how long it runs. I'm
currently at 1 hour and 25 minutes and still going.  Current directory
(/backup/qmailbkup) size is 7.2 Gig (/home/vpopmail/domains is 16 Gig
uncompressed).  Is this normal?  Am I running to correct/best/fastest backup
script?

 

My goal here is to put qtp-backup (or the best backup script) into a cron
job that runs every night, then after waiting MORE than the amount of time
it takes to run the qtp-backup script, rsync the backup file(s) over to a
another server.

 

Thanks,

Scott

 



RE: [qmailtoaster] qtp-backup

2011-03-29 Thread Patrick Ring
I find it has been server-dependant (...age, load, amount of storage).
My storage is about half of what you have, and I know it seems to take
around :45mins.  ...though the servers here are not new by any means (HP
Proliant DL320 G3's).
 
The process, if I remember correctly, makes the copy of the data by
using a compression statement (tar/gz).  It could be the compression
that is taking a while (especially on older equipment).
 
-Pat.



From: Scott Hughes [mailto:sc...@renshawauto.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:24 AM
To: qmailtoaster-list@qmailtoaster.com
Subject: [qmailtoaster] qtp-backup



I was just curious. I am testing qtp-backup to see how long it runs. I'm
currently at 1 hour and 25 minutes and still going.  Current directory
(/backup/qmailbkup) size is 7.2 Gig (/home/vpopmail/domains is 16 Gig
uncompressed).  Is this normal?  Am I running to correct/best/fastest
backup script?

 

My goal here is to put qtp-backup (or the best backup script) into a
cron job that runs every night, then after waiting MORE than the amount
of time it takes to run the qtp-backup script, rsync the backup file(s)
over to a another server.

 

Thanks,

Scott

 



[qmailtoaster] Re: qtp-backup

2011-03-29 Thread Eric Shubert
I using rsync to back up the /home/vpopmail/domains directory. Then I 
run a modified version of qtp-backup which backs up everything except 
said directory. This is much more efficient, as messages aren't 
repeatedly backed up.


The modified version of qtp-backup will be included in the next release 
of QTP, and is presently in the QTP subversion repo, so you can download 
it from the web site. See comments in the source for how to use it. :)


--
-Eric 'shubes'

On 03/29/2011 09:30 AM, Patrick Ring wrote:

I find it has been server-dependant (...age, load, amount of storage).
My storage is about half of what you have, and I know it seems to take
around :45mins. ...though the servers here are not new by any means (HP
Proliant DL320 G3's).
The process, if I remember correctly, makes the copy of the data by
using a compression statement (tar/gz). It could be the compression that
is taking a while (especially on older equipment).
-Pat.


*From:* Scott Hughes [mailto:sc...@renshawauto.net]
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:24 AM
*To:* qmailtoaster-list@qmailtoaster.com
*Subject:* [qmailtoaster] qtp-backup

I was just curious. I am testing qtp-backup to see how long it runs. I’m
currently at 1 hour and 25 minutes and still going. Current directory
(/backup/qmailbkup) size is 7.2 Gig (/home/vpopmail/domains is 16 Gig
uncompressed). Is this normal? Am I running to correct/best/fastest
backup script?

My goal here is to put qtp-backup (or the best backup script) into a
cron job that runs every night, then after waiting MORE than the amount
of time it takes to run the qtp-backup script, rsync the backup file(s)
over to a another server.

Thanks,

Scott




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(www.vickersconsulting.com)
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-
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RE: [qmailtoaster] Re: qtp-backup

2011-03-29 Thread Patrick Ring
I had played with a similar rsync method to this for a while as well as
adapting a rdiff-backup method as well (allows for
snapshot/rollback/increments).

I think the rsync is the way to go if you don't need rollback
increments.
It will cut down on bandwidth and time.
-Pat Ring

-Original Message-
From: Eric Shubert [mailto:e...@shubes.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 12:07 PM
To: qmailtoaster-list@qmailtoaster.com
Subject: [qmailtoaster] Re: qtp-backup

I using rsync to back up the /home/vpopmail/domains directory. Then I
run a modified version of qtp-backup which backs up everything except
said directory. This is much more efficient, as messages aren't
repeatedly backed up.

The modified version of qtp-backup will be included in the next release
of QTP, and is presently in the QTP subversion repo, so you can download
it from the web site. See comments in the source for how to use it. :)

--
-Eric 'shubes'

On 03/29/2011 09:30 AM, Patrick Ring wrote:
 I find it has been server-dependant (...age, load, amount of storage).
 My storage is about half of what you have, and I know it seems to take

 around :45mins. ...though the servers here are not new by any means 
 (HP Proliant DL320 G3's).
 The process, if I remember correctly, makes the copy of the data by 
 using a compression statement (tar/gz). It could be the compression 
 that is taking a while (especially on older equipment).
 -Pat.

 --
 --
 *From:* Scott Hughes [mailto:sc...@renshawauto.net]
 *Sent:* Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:24 AM
 *To:* qmailtoaster-list@qmailtoaster.com
 *Subject:* [qmailtoaster] qtp-backup

 I was just curious. I am testing qtp-backup to see how long it runs. 
 I'm currently at 1 hour and 25 minutes and still going. Current 
 directory
 (/backup/qmailbkup) size is 7.2 Gig (/home/vpopmail/domains is 16 Gig 
 uncompressed). Is this normal? Am I running to correct/best/fastest 
 backup script?

 My goal here is to put qtp-backup (or the best backup script) into a 
 cron job that runs every night, then after waiting MORE than the 
 amount of time it takes to run the qtp-backup script, rsync the backup

 file(s) over to a another server.

 Thanks,

 Scott




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(www.vickersconsulting.com)
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installations.
  If you need professional help with your setup, contact them today!

-
 Please visit qmailtoaster.com for the latest news, updates, and
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  To unsubscribe, e-mail:
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Re: [qmailtoaster] Re: qtp-backup

2011-03-29 Thread Scott Hughes
Eric,

How does one get to and use this subversion repo you speak of?

Thanks,
Scott




On Mar 29, 2011, at 12:06 PM, Eric Shubert e...@shubes.net wrote:

 I using rsync to back up the /home/vpopmail/domains directory. Then I run a 
 modified version of qtp-backup which backs up everything except said 
 directory. This is much more efficient, as messages aren't repeatedly backed 
 up.
 
 The modified version of qtp-backup will be included in the next release of 
 QTP, and is presently in the QTP subversion repo, so you can download it from 
 the web site. See comments in the source for how to use it. :)
 
 -- 
 -Eric 'shubes'
 
 On 03/29/2011 09:30 AM, Patrick Ring wrote:
 I find it has been server-dependant (...age, load, amount of storage).
 My storage is about half of what you have, and I know it seems to take
 around :45mins. ...though the servers here are not new by any means (HP
 Proliant DL320 G3's).
 The process, if I remember correctly, makes the copy of the data by
 using a compression statement (tar/gz). It could be the compression that
 is taking a while (especially on older equipment).
 -Pat.
 
 
 *From:* Scott Hughes [mailto:sc...@renshawauto.net]
 *Sent:* Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:24 AM
 *To:* qmailtoaster-list@qmailtoaster.com
 *Subject:* [qmailtoaster] qtp-backup
 
 I was just curious. I am testing qtp-backup to see how long it runs. I’m
 currently at 1 hour and 25 minutes and still going. Current directory
 (/backup/qmailbkup) size is 7.2 Gig (/home/vpopmail/domains is 16 Gig
 uncompressed). Is this normal? Am I running to correct/best/fastest
 backup script?
 
 My goal here is to put qtp-backup (or the best backup script) into a
 cron job that runs every night, then after waiting MORE than the amount
 of time it takes to run the qtp-backup script, rsync the backup file(s)
 over to a another server.
 
 Thanks,
 
 Scott
 
 
 
 -
 Qmailtoaster is sponsored by Vickers Consulting Group 
 (www.vickersconsulting.com)
   Vickers Consulting Group offers Qmailtoaster support and installations.
 If you need professional help with your setup, contact them today!
 -
Please visit qmailtoaster.com for the latest news, updates, and packages.
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: qmailtoaster-list-unsubscr...@qmailtoaster.com
For additional commands, e-mail: qmailtoaster-list-h...@qmailtoaster.com
 
 

-
Qmailtoaster is sponsored by Vickers Consulting Group 
(www.vickersconsulting.com)
Vickers Consulting Group offers Qmailtoaster support and installations.
  If you need professional help with your setup, contact them today!
-
 Please visit qmailtoaster.com for the latest news, updates, and packages.

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[qmailtoaster] Re: qtp-backup

2011-03-29 Thread Eric Shubert
I think you can do incrementals with rsync as well. I haven't 
implemented this yet, but I hope to in the near future.


I can't think of why rollback would be wanted or needed with QMT, at 
least where messages are concerned.


--
-Eric 'shubes'

On 03/29/2011 10:25 AM, Patrick Ring wrote:

I had played with a similar rsync method to this for a while as well as
adapting a rdiff-backup method as well (allows for
snapshot/rollback/increments).

I think the rsync is the way to go if you don't need rollback
increments.
It will cut down on bandwidth and time.
-Pat Ring

-Original Message-
From: Eric Shubert [mailto:e...@shubes.net]
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 12:07 PM
To: qmailtoaster-list@qmailtoaster.com
Subject: [qmailtoaster] Re: qtp-backup

I using rsync to back up the /home/vpopmail/domains directory. Then I
run a modified version of qtp-backup which backs up everything except
said directory. This is much more efficient, as messages aren't
repeatedly backed up.

The modified version of qtp-backup will be included in the next release
of QTP, and is presently in the QTP subversion repo, so you can download
it from the web site. See comments in the source for how to use it. :)

--
-Eric 'shubes'

On 03/29/2011 09:30 AM, Patrick Ring wrote:

I find it has been server-dependant (...age, load, amount of storage).
My storage is about half of what you have, and I know it seems to take



around :45mins. ...though the servers here are not new by any means
(HP Proliant DL320 G3's).
The process, if I remember correctly, makes the copy of the data by
using a compression statement (tar/gz). It could be the compression
that is taking a while (especially on older equipment).
-Pat.

--
--
*From:* Scott Hughes [mailto:sc...@renshawauto.net]
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:24 AM
*To:* qmailtoaster-list@qmailtoaster.com
*Subject:* [qmailtoaster] qtp-backup

I was just curious. I am testing qtp-backup to see how long it runs.
I'm currently at 1 hour and 25 minutes and still going. Current
directory
(/backup/qmailbkup) size is 7.2 Gig (/home/vpopmail/domains is 16 Gig
uncompressed). Is this normal? Am I running to correct/best/fastest
backup script?

My goal here is to put qtp-backup (or the best backup script) into a
cron job that runs every night, then after waiting MORE than the
amount of time it takes to run the qtp-backup script, rsync the backup



file(s) over to a another server.

Thanks,

Scott





-
Qmailtoaster is sponsored by Vickers Consulting Group
(www.vickersconsulting.com)
 Vickers Consulting Group offers Qmailtoaster support and
installations.
   If you need professional help with your setup, contact them today!

-
  Please visit qmailtoaster.com for the latest news, updates, and
packages.

   To unsubscribe, e-mail:
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  For additional commands, e-mail:
qmailtoaster-list-h...@qmailtoaster.com



-
Qmailtoaster is sponsored by Vickers Consulting Group 
(www.vickersconsulting.com)
 Vickers Consulting Group offers Qmailtoaster support and installations.
   If you need professional help with your setup, contact them today!




-
Qmailtoaster is sponsored by Vickers Consulting Group 
(www.vickersconsulting.com)
   Vickers Consulting Group offers Qmailtoaster support and installations.
 If you need professional help with your setup, contact them today!
-
Please visit qmailtoaster.com for the latest news, updates, and packages.

 To unsubscribe, e-mail: qmailtoaster-list-unsubscr...@qmailtoaster.com

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[qmailtoaster] Re: qtp-backup

2011-03-29 Thread Eric Shubert

http://qtp.qmailtoaster.com/trac/browser

On 03/29/2011 10:52 AM, Scott Hughes wrote:

Eric,

How does one get to and use this subversion repo you speak of?

Thanks,
Scott




On Mar 29, 2011, at 12:06 PM, Eric Shuberte...@shubes.net  wrote:


I using rsync to back up the /home/vpopmail/domains directory. Then I run a 
modified version of qtp-backup which backs up everything except said directory. 
This is much more efficient, as messages aren't repeatedly backed up.

The modified version of qtp-backup will be included in the next release of QTP, 
and is presently in the QTP subversion repo, so you can download it from the 
web site. See comments in the source for how to use it. :)

--
-Eric 'shubes'

On 03/29/2011 09:30 AM, Patrick Ring wrote:

I find it has been server-dependant (...age, load, amount of storage).
My storage is about half of what you have, and I know it seems to take
around :45mins. ...though the servers here are not new by any means (HP
Proliant DL320 G3's).
The process, if I remember correctly, makes the copy of the data by
using a compression statement (tar/gz). It could be the compression that
is taking a while (especially on older equipment).
-Pat.


*From:* Scott Hughes [mailto:sc...@renshawauto.net]
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:24 AM
*To:* qmailtoaster-list@qmailtoaster.com
*Subject:* [qmailtoaster] qtp-backup

I was just curious. I am testing qtp-backup to see how long it runs. I’m
currently at 1 hour and 25 minutes and still going. Current directory
(/backup/qmailbkup) size is 7.2 Gig (/home/vpopmail/domains is 16 Gig
uncompressed). Is this normal? Am I running to correct/best/fastest
backup script?

My goal here is to put qtp-backup (or the best backup script) into a
cron job that runs every night, then after waiting MORE than the amount
of time it takes to run the qtp-backup script, rsync the backup file(s)
over to a another server.

Thanks,

Scott




-
Qmailtoaster is sponsored by Vickers Consulting Group 
(www.vickersconsulting.com)
   Vickers Consulting Group offers Qmailtoaster support and installations.
 If you need professional help with your setup, contact them today!
-
Please visit qmailtoaster.com for the latest news, updates, and packages.
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: qmailtoaster-list-unsubscr...@qmailtoaster.com
For additional commands, e-mail: qmailtoaster-list-h...@qmailtoaster.com




-
Qmailtoaster is sponsored by Vickers Consulting Group 
(www.vickersconsulting.com)
 Vickers Consulting Group offers Qmailtoaster support and installations.
   If you need professional help with your setup, contact them today!



--
-Eric 'shubes'


-
Qmailtoaster is sponsored by Vickers Consulting Group 
(www.vickersconsulting.com)
   Vickers Consulting Group offers Qmailtoaster support and installations.
 If you need professional help with your setup, contact them today!
-
Please visit qmailtoaster.com for the latest news, updates, and packages.

 To unsubscribe, e-mail: qmailtoaster-list-unsubscr...@qmailtoaster.com

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RE: [qmailtoaster] Re: qtp-backup

2011-03-29 Thread Patrick Ring
Rollback or increments could be necessary if someone deletes email prior
to the last backup and it is later discovered by (that person's boss)
well after the fact (and the last backup).  I had been keeping about 1
month back in delta files necessary to re-create previous backup data.

Though I later realized that seldom does the contents of one
file/message change in a mail server, so just having a file-level
increment (instead of bit/block-level) is necessary under the right
circumstances.

-Pat Ring 

-Original Message-
From: Eric Shubert [mailto:e...@shubes.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 12:55 PM
To: qmailtoaster-list@qmailtoaster.com
Subject: [qmailtoaster] Re: qtp-backup

I think you can do incrementals with rsync as well. I haven't
implemented this yet, but I hope to in the near future.

I can't think of why rollback would be wanted or needed with QMT, at
least where messages are concerned.

--
-Eric 'shubes'

On 03/29/2011 10:25 AM, Patrick Ring wrote:
 I had played with a similar rsync method to this for a while as well 
 as adapting a rdiff-backup method as well (allows for 
 snapshot/rollback/increments).

 I think the rsync is the way to go if you don't need rollback 
 increments.
 It will cut down on bandwidth and time.
 -Pat Ring

 -Original Message-
 From: Eric Shubert [mailto:e...@shubes.net]
 Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 12:07 PM
 To: qmailtoaster-list@qmailtoaster.com
 Subject: [qmailtoaster] Re: qtp-backup

 I using rsync to back up the /home/vpopmail/domains directory. Then I 
 run a modified version of qtp-backup which backs up everything except 
 said directory. This is much more efficient, as messages aren't 
 repeatedly backed up.

 The modified version of qtp-backup will be included in the next 
 release of QTP, and is presently in the QTP subversion repo, so you 
 can download it from the web site. See comments in the source for how 
 to use it. :)

 --
 -Eric 'shubes'

 On 03/29/2011 09:30 AM, Patrick Ring wrote:
 I find it has been server-dependant (...age, load, amount of
storage).
 My storage is about half of what you have, and I know it seems to 
 take

 around :45mins. ...though the servers here are not new by any means 
 (HP Proliant DL320 G3's).
 The process, if I remember correctly, makes the copy of the data by 
 using a compression statement (tar/gz). It could be the compression 
 that is taking a while (especially on older equipment).
 -Pat.

 -
 -
 --
 *From:* Scott Hughes [mailto:sc...@renshawauto.net]
 *Sent:* Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:24 AM
 *To:* qmailtoaster-list@qmailtoaster.com
 *Subject:* [qmailtoaster] qtp-backup

 I was just curious. I am testing qtp-backup to see how long it runs.
 I'm currently at 1 hour and 25 minutes and still going. Current 
 directory
 (/backup/qmailbkup) size is 7.2 Gig (/home/vpopmail/domains is 16 Gig

 uncompressed). Is this normal? Am I running to correct/best/fastest 
 backup script?

 My goal here is to put qtp-backup (or the best backup script) into a 
 cron job that runs every night, then after waiting MORE than the 
 amount of time it takes to run the qtp-backup script, rsync the 
 backup

 file(s) over to a another server.

 Thanks,

 Scott



 --
 --
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 Qmailtoaster is sponsored by Vickers Consulting Group
 (www.vickersconsulting.com)
  Vickers Consulting Group offers Qmailtoaster support and 
 installations.
If you need professional help with your setup, contact them
today!
 --
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  Vickers Consulting Group offers Qmailtoaster support and
installations.
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today!




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RE: [qmailtoaster] Re: qtp-backup

2011-03-29 Thread Scott Hughes
Thanks Eric.  Can you post your rsync script as we can shamelessly copy that?  
*Grin*

Thanks,
Scott

-Original Message-
From: Eric Shubert [mailto:e...@shubes.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 12:56 PM
To: qmailtoaster-list@qmailtoaster.com
Subject: [qmailtoaster] Re: qtp-backup

http://qtp.qmailtoaster.com/trac/browser

On 03/29/2011 10:52 AM, Scott Hughes wrote:
 Eric,

 How does one get to and use this subversion repo you speak of?

 Thanks,
 Scott




 On Mar 29, 2011, at 12:06 PM, Eric Shuberte...@shubes.net  wrote:

 I using rsync to back up the /home/vpopmail/domains directory. Then I run a 
 modified version of qtp-backup which backs up everything except said 
 directory. This is much more efficient, as messages aren't repeatedly backed 
 up.

 The modified version of qtp-backup will be included in the next release of 
 QTP, and is presently in the QTP subversion repo, so you can download it 
 from the web site. See comments in the source for how to use it. :)

 --
 -Eric 'shubes'

 On 03/29/2011 09:30 AM, Patrick Ring wrote:
 I find it has been server-dependant (...age, load, amount of storage).
 My storage is about half of what you have, and I know it seems to take
 around :45mins. ...though the servers here are not new by any means (HP
 Proliant DL320 G3's).
 The process, if I remember correctly, makes the copy of the data by
 using a compression statement (tar/gz). It could be the compression that
 is taking a while (especially on older equipment).
 -Pat.

 
 *From:* Scott Hughes [mailto:sc...@renshawauto.net]
 *Sent:* Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:24 AM
 *To:* qmailtoaster-list@qmailtoaster.com
 *Subject:* [qmailtoaster] qtp-backup

 I was just curious. I am testing qtp-backup to see how long it runs. I’m
 currently at 1 hour and 25 minutes and still going. Current directory
 (/backup/qmailbkup) size is 7.2 Gig (/home/vpopmail/domains is 16 Gig
 uncompressed). Is this normal? Am I running to correct/best/fastest
 backup script?

 My goal here is to put qtp-backup (or the best backup script) into a
 cron job that runs every night, then after waiting MORE than the amount
 of time it takes to run the qtp-backup script, rsync the backup file(s)
 over to a another server.

 Thanks,

 Scott



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 (www.vickersconsulting.com)
Vickers Consulting Group offers Qmailtoaster support and installations.
  If you need professional help with your setup, contact them today!
 -
 Please visit qmailtoaster.com for the latest news, updates, and packages.
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 qmailtoaster-list-unsubscr...@qmailtoaster.com
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 Qmailtoaster is sponsored by Vickers Consulting Group 
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  Vickers Consulting Group offers Qmailtoaster support and installations.
If you need professional help with your setup, contact them today!


-- 
-Eric 'shubes'


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Re: [qmailtoaster] Re: qtp-backup

2011-03-29 Thread Dnk



On 2011-03-29, at 12:41, Scott Hughes sc...@renshawauto.net wrote:

 Thanks Eric.  Can you post your rsync script as we can shamelessly copy that? 
  *Grin*
 
 Thanks,
 Scott
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Eric Shubert [mailto:e...@shubes.net] 
 Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 12:56 PM
 To: qmailtoaster-list@qmailtoaster.com
 Subject: [qmailtoaster] Re: qtp-backup
 
 http://qtp.qmailtoaster.com/trac/browser
 
 On 03/29/2011 10:52 AM, Scott Hughes wrote:
 Eric,
 
 How does one get to and use this subversion repo you speak of?
 
 Thanks,
 Scott
 
 
 
 
 On Mar 29, 2011, at 12:06 PM, Eric Shuberte...@shubes.net  wrote:
 
 I using rsync to back up the /home/vpopmail/domains directory. Then I run a 
 modified version of qtp-backup which backs up everything except said 
 directory. This is much more efficient, as messages aren't repeatedly 
 backed up.
 
 The modified version of qtp-backup will be included in the next release of 
 QTP, and is presently in the QTP subversion repo, so you can download it 
 from the web site. See comments in the source for how to use it. :)
 
 --
 -Eric 'shubes'
 
 On 03/29/2011 09:30 AM, Patrick Ring wrote:
 I find it has been server-dependant (...age, load, amount of storage).
 My storage is about half of what you have, and I know it seems to take
 around :45mins. ...though the servers here are not new by any means (HP
 Proliant DL320 G3's).
 The process, if I remember correctly, makes the copy of the data by
 using a compression statement (tar/gz). It could be the compression that
 is taking a while (especially on older equipment).
 -Pat.
 
 
 *From:* Scott Hughes [mailto:sc...@renshawauto.net]
 *Sent:* Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:24 AM
 *To:* qmailtoaster-list@qmailtoaster.com
 *Subject:* [qmailtoaster] qtp-backup
 
 I was just curious. I am testing qtp-backup to see how long it runs. I’m
 currently at 1 hour and 25 minutes and still going. Current directory
 (/backup/qmailbkup) size is 7.2 Gig (/home/vpopmail/domains is 16 Gig
 uncompressed). Is this normal? Am I running to correct/best/fastest
 backup script?
 
 My goal here is to put qtp-backup (or the best backup script) into a
 cron job that runs every night, then after waiting MORE than the amount
 of time it takes to run the qtp-backup script, rsync the backup file(s)
 over to a another server.
 
 Thanks,
 
 Scott
 
 
 
 -
 Qmailtoaster is sponsored by Vickers Consulting Group 
 (www.vickersconsulting.com)
   Vickers Consulting Group offers Qmailtoaster support and installations.
 If you need professional help with your setup, contact them today!
 -
Please visit qmailtoaster.com for the latest news, updates, and packages.
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
 qmailtoaster-list-unsubscr...@qmailtoaster.com
For additional commands, e-mail: qmailtoaster-list-h...@qmailtoaster.com
 
 
 
 -
 Qmailtoaster is sponsored by Vickers Consulting Group 
 (www.vickersconsulting.com)
 Vickers Consulting Group offers Qmailtoaster support and installations.
   If you need professional help with your setup, contact them today!
 
 
 -- 
 -Eric 'shubes'
 
 
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 Qmailtoaster is sponsored by Vickers Consulting Group 
 (www.vickersconsulting.com)
Vickers Consulting Group offers Qmailtoaster support and installations.
  If you need professional help with your setup, contact them today!
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 Please visit qmailtoaster.com for the latest news, updates, and packages.
 
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 For additional commands, e-mail: qmailtoaster-list-h...@qmailtoaster.com
 
 
 
 
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 Qmailtoaster is sponsored by Vickers Consulting Group 
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I think it is his script in the repo!

---
Dnk
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(www.vickersconsulting.com)
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  If 

[qmailtoaster] Re: qtp-backup

2011-03-29 Thread Eric Shubert

I really deserve at least a CD (ama...@shubes.net) for this:

#!/bin/sh
# backup mail directories to offsite backup
# shubes 07/05/10 - don't run on Sundays - clashes with raid-check
# shubes 02/11/09 - created

if [ $(date +%a) = Sun ]; then
  exit 0
fi

userid=remoteuser
backoff_url=remotehost.domain.com
backoff_port=remoteport
destdir=/home/$userid/backup/$(hostname -s)
dirlist=/etc /home/vpopmail/domains /var/lib/mailman

for dir in $dirlist; do
  echo 
  echo -n $(date +%b %e %Y %H:%M:%S) $(hostname --fqdn) $(basename 
$0): rsyncing $dir ...


  rsync -azh --stats --delete --numeric-ids \
--rsh=ssh -p $backoff_port \
--rsync-path=sudo /usr/bin/rsync \
$dir \
$userid@$backoff_url:$destdir 21 \
| grep -v ^!!
done

On 03/29/2011 12:41 PM, Scott Hughes wrote:

Thanks Eric.  Can you post your rsync script as we can shamelessly copy that?  
*Grin*

Thanks,
Scott

-Original Message-
From: Eric Shubert [mailto:e...@shubes.net]
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 12:56 PM
To: qmailtoaster-list@qmailtoaster.com
Subject: [qmailtoaster] Re: qtp-backup

http://qtp.qmailtoaster.com/trac/browser

On 03/29/2011 10:52 AM, Scott Hughes wrote:

Eric,

How does one get to and use this subversion repo you speak of?

Thanks,
Scott




On Mar 29, 2011, at 12:06 PM, Eric Shuberte...@shubes.net   wrote:


I using rsync to back up the /home/vpopmail/domains directory. Then I run a 
modified version of qtp-backup which backs up everything except said directory. 
This is much more efficient, as messages aren't repeatedly backed up.

The modified version of qtp-backup will be included in the next release of QTP, 
and is presently in the QTP subversion repo, so you can download it from the 
web site. See comments in the source for how to use it. :)

--
-Eric 'shubes'

On 03/29/2011 09:30 AM, Patrick Ring wrote:

I find it has been server-dependant (...age, load, amount of storage).
My storage is about half of what you have, and I know it seems to take
around :45mins. ...though the servers here are not new by any means (HP
Proliant DL320 G3's).
The process, if I remember correctly, makes the copy of the data by
using a compression statement (tar/gz). It could be the compression that
is taking a while (especially on older equipment).
-Pat.


*From:* Scott Hughes [mailto:sc...@renshawauto.net]
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:24 AM
*To:* qmailtoaster-list@qmailtoaster.com
*Subject:* [qmailtoaster] qtp-backup

I was just curious. I am testing qtp-backup to see how long it runs. I’m
currently at 1 hour and 25 minutes and still going. Current directory
(/backup/qmailbkup) size is 7.2 Gig (/home/vpopmail/domains is 16 Gig
uncompressed). Is this normal? Am I running to correct/best/fastest
backup script?

My goal here is to put qtp-backup (or the best backup script) into a
cron job that runs every night, then after waiting MORE than the amount
of time it takes to run the qtp-backup script, rsync the backup file(s)
over to a another server.

Thanks,

Scott




-
Qmailtoaster is sponsored by Vickers Consulting Group 
(www.vickersconsulting.com)
Vickers Consulting Group offers Qmailtoaster support and installations.
  If you need professional help with your setup, contact them today!
-
 Please visit qmailtoaster.com for the latest news, updates, and packages.
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  Vickers Consulting Group offers Qmailtoaster support and installations.
If you need professional help with your setup, contact them today!






--
-Eric 'shubes'


-
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(www.vickersconsulting.com)
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 If you need professional help with your setup, contact them today!
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[qmailtoaster] Memory expected ?

2011-03-29 Thread Fred Christian
I have been reading the wiki some and I didn't find this yet. Maybe there
are too many variables.

I got some help getting a fairly basic CentOS 5.5 VPS set up with
qmailtoaster.
I ran out of RAM and had trouble even logging in with SSH
I read some list archives and got clamav shut off which was taking up 40%
memory
Now in TOP I see this.
Mem:393216k total,   219456k used,   173760k free,0k buffers

This is without clamav taking up an additional 160mb.

Would people expect my config to take up this much RAM?
Say I have 3 users and one very active sending our 1000 emails a week,
receiving maybe 100 emails total a week.
How much RAM do you think I will need?
Is there a way to estimate the system needs?

Are there optimizations that you might recommend to clean things up?
Or am I just being cheap and should up the RAM on my VPS?

I don't expect the server to have any other significant usage, some very
basic webpages with low load.

Thanks
Fred


[qmailtoaster] Conversion of courier to Dovecot Subfolder issue

2011-03-29 Thread Mike Canty
To All,
Last night I converted my mail server from Courier to Dovecot,
following the setup announced last week. 
http://wiki.qmailtoaster.com/index.php/Replacing_Courier_IMAP_with_Dovecot_I
MAP

I tested the system initially on a backup machine and this seemed to work
and I was able to connect to the backup server with an IMAP account and see
all of the mail there.

Unfortunately my testing was not good enough, as I can across three issues
when I completed the changeover.

1.  Some users were able to connect and others not. Looking in the log,
I could see Aborted login (tried to use disabled plaintext auth). 

 I rectified this by placing disable_plaintext_auth = no in the
/etc/dovecot/toaster.conf file.

2.  Subfolders on some accounts came across, outside of the INBOX as
expected, but others did not.

Once again this was rectified by Subscribing to folders in the
Microsoft Outlook Client, from the Inbox Properties (IMAP Folders)

3.  The third issue, came in two parts.  Squirrelmail did not work.
Initially all I could get was a blank screen for
mailserver/webmail/src/login.php screen.

I found, after playing with the configurations
(/etc/squirrelmail/config_local.php), by changing the line
$default_folder_prefix = ; to $default_folder_prefix = ' '; , I was able
to login.

However, I am not able to display the subfolders, that are outside
of the Inbox.  I know Eric did not want to have these folders in the Inbox
as he thought this was not necessary (see comments in
/etc/dovecot/toaster.conf).  I have tried a number of different settings
(see below) but all I can get is the standard Inbox, Drafts, Trash and
Sent folders.  Can anyone assist here?

Setting tried so far.

$optional_delimiter = '.';
$default_folder_prefix = '.';

$optional_delimiter = '.';
$default_folder_prefix = 'INBOX.';

$optional_delimiter = ' ';
$default_folder_prefix = ' ';


Any help here would be appreciated

Mike Canty



-
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(www.vickersconsulting.com)
Vickers Consulting Group offers Qmailtoaster support and installations.
  If you need professional help with your setup, contact them today!
-
 Please visit qmailtoaster.com for the latest news, updates, and packages.
 
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[qmailtoaster] Re: Memory expected ?

2011-03-29 Thread Eric Shubert

On 03/29/2011 06:09 PM, Fred Christian wrote:

I have been reading the wiki some and I didn't find this yet. Maybe
there are too many variables.

I got some help getting a fairly basic CentOS 5.5 VPS set up with
qmailtoaster.
I ran out of RAM and had trouble even logging in with SSH
I read some list archives and got clamav shut off which was taking up
40% memory
Now in TOP I see this.
Mem:393216k total,   219456k used,   173760k free,0k buffers

This is without clamav taking up an additional 160mb.

Would people expect my config to take up this much RAM?
Say I have 3 users and one very active sending our 1000 emails a week,
receiving maybe 100 emails total a week.
How much RAM do you think I will need?
Is there a way to estimate the system needs?

Are there optimizations that you might recommend to clean things up?
Or am I just being cheap and should up the RAM on my VPS?

I don't expect the server to have any other significant usage, some very
basic webpages with low load.

Thanks
Fred


This is what I have presently:
Mem:515332k total,   492312k used,23020k free,47192k buffers
Swap:  1044216k total,61112k used,   983104k free,   140220k cached

  PID USER  PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S %CPU %MEMTIME+  COMMAND 

30658 clamav25   0  152m 133m 7856 S  0.0 26.4   0:15.57 clamd 



So clamav does take a good sized chunk.

You should reduce your /var/qmail/control/concurrencyincoming value. 3 
should be ok. If you have that little mail, you should rarely go over 1.


You might get by with what you have. The only thing that's memory 
intensive is scanning, both clamav and spamassassin.


What's your swap look like?

--
-Eric 'shubes'


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[qmailtoaster] Re: Conversion of courier to Dovecot Subfolder issue

2011-03-29 Thread Eric Shubert

On 03/29/2011 06:13 PM, Mike Canty wrote:

To All,
Last night I converted my mail server from Courier to Dovecot,
following the setup announced last week.
http://wiki.qmailtoaster.com/index.php/Replacing_Courier_IMAP_with_Dovecot_I
MAP

I tested the system initially on a backup machine and this seemed to work
and I was able to connect to the backup server with an IMAP account and see
all of the mail there.

Unfortunately my testing was not good enough, as I can across three issues
when I completed the changeover.

1.  Some users were able to connect and others not. Looking in the log,
I could see Aborted login (tried to use disabled plaintext auth).

 I rectified this by placing disable_plaintext_auth = no in the
/etc/dovecot/toaster.conf file.


You realize this is a security risk, right? Doesn't happen often, but I 
have seen passwords acquired by spammers this way. Just about every 
client can use TLS these days (except Outlook'03).



2.  Subfolders on some accounts came across, outside of the INBOX as
expected, but others did not.

Once again this was rectified by Subscribing to folders in the
Microsoft Outlook Client, from the Inbox Properties (IMAP Folders)


I don't know how to avoid this. Haven't done extensive testing.


3.  The third issue, came in two parts.  Squirrelmail did not work.
Initially all I could get was a blank screen for
mailserver/webmail/src/login.php screen.

I found, after playing with the configurations
(/etc/squirrelmail/config_local.php), by changing the line
$default_folder_prefix = ; to $default_folder_prefix = ' '; , I was able
to login.

However, I am not able to display the subfolders, that are outside
of the Inbox.  I know Eric did not want to have these folders in the Inbox
as he thought this was not necessary (see comments in
/etc/dovecot/toaster.conf).  I have tried a number of different settings
(see below) but all I can get is the standard Inbox, Drafts, Trash and
Sent folders.  Can anyone assist here?

Setting tried so far.

$optional_delimiter = '.';
$default_folder_prefix = '.';

$optional_delimiter = '.';
$default_folder_prefix = 'INBOX.';

$optional_delimiter = ' ';
$default_folder_prefix = ' ';


Any help here would be appreciated

Mike Canty


I'm using:
$optional_delimiter   = 'detect';
$default_folder_prefix= '';

Looks like a type-o on the wiki page. I'll fix that (and check my 
configurations - not sure where it came from).


Thanks for the report, Mike.

--
-Eric 'shubes'


-
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(www.vickersconsulting.com)
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 If you need professional help with your setup, contact them today!
-
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[qmailtoaster] Re: Conversion of courier to Dovecot Subfolder issue

2011-03-29 Thread Eric Shubert

On 03/29/2011 07:45 PM, Eric Shubert wrote:


I'm using:
$optional_delimiter = 'detect';
$default_folder_prefix = '';

Looks like a type-o on the wiki page. I'll fix that (and check my
configurations - not sure where it came from).


Wiki formatting interpreted '' as italics. DOH!
Added pre /pre tags, and they're visible now. ;)

--
-Eric 'shubes'


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 If you need professional help with your setup, contact them today!
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RE: [qmailtoaster] Re: Conversion of courier to Dovecot Subfolder issue

2011-03-29 Thread Mike Canty
Eric,
Thanks for this.  That worked.  I was close '' is nearly the same as
' ' but obviously the gap in between blocked the display.

Much appreciated.

Cheers

-Original Message-
From: Eric Shubert [mailto:e...@shubes.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, 30 March 2011 1:26 PM
To: qmailtoaster-list@qmailtoaster.com
Subject: [qmailtoaster] Re: Conversion of courier to Dovecot Subfolder issue

On 03/29/2011 07:45 PM, Eric Shubert wrote:

 I'm using:
 $optional_delimiter = 'detect';
 $default_folder_prefix = '';

 Looks like a type-o on the wiki page. I'll fix that (and check my
 configurations - not sure where it came from).

Wiki formatting interpreted '' as italics. DOH!
Added pre /pre tags, and they're visible now. ;)

-- 
-Eric 'shubes'



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Re: [qmailtoaster] Re: Memory expected ?

2011-03-29 Thread Bharath Chari

On 03/30/2011 08:05 AM, Eric Shubert wrote:

On 03/29/2011 06:09 PM, Fred Christian wrote:

I have been reading the wiki some and I didn't find this yet. Maybe
there are too many variables.

I got some help getting a fairly basic CentOS 5.5 VPS set up with
qmailtoaster.
I ran out of RAM and had trouble even logging in with SSH
I read some list archives and got clamav shut off which was taking up
40% memory
Now in TOP I see this.
Mem:393216k total,   219456k used,   173760k free,0k buffers

This is without clamav taking up an additional 160mb.

Would people expect my config to take up this much RAM?
Say I have 3 users and one very active sending our 1000 emails a week,
receiving maybe 100 emails total a week.
How much RAM do you think I will need?
Is there a way to estimate the system needs?

Are there optimizations that you might recommend to clean things up?
Or am I just being cheap and should up the RAM on my VPS?

I don't expect the server to have any other significant usage, some very
basic webpages with low load.

Thanks
Fred


This is what I have presently:
Mem:515332k total,   492312k used,23020k free,47192k buffers
Swap:  1044216k total,61112k used,   983104k free,   140220k cached

  PID USER  PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S %CPU %MEMTIME+  COMMAND
30658 clamav25   0  152m 133m 7856 S  0.0 26.4   0:15.57 clamd

So clamav does take a good sized chunk.

You should reduce your /var/qmail/control/concurrencyincoming value. 3 
should be ok. If you have that little mail, you should rarely go over 1.


You might get by with what you have. The only thing that's memory 
intensive is scanning, both clamav and spamassassin.


What's your swap look like?



I think bumping up memory to  512 MB should be good enough for the load 
you anticipate. That's what I use for a low load server such as what you 
outline. Regarding swap - which virtualization software are you using? 
If it's openvz, there's no swap :)


Bharath

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Re: [qmailtoaster] Re: Memory expected ?

2011-03-29 Thread Fred Christian
Thanks for the ideas,
Yes, the VPS is on OpenVZ - no swap.  currently 256mb RAM with 384mb
burstable.
Sounds like I should up it to 512mb (768 burstable)

If it would be helping? I wouldn't mind helping with the wiki and putting in
a short section somewhere that mentions typical memory requirements.  Maybe
it could go in the FAQ near discussion of dependencies.

Fred

On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 8:48 PM, Bharath Chari qmailtoas...@arachnis.comwrote:

 On 03/30/2011 08:05 AM, Eric Shubert wrote:


 This is what I have presently:
 Mem:515332k total,   492312k used,23020k free,47192k buffers
 Swap:  1044216k total,61112k used,   983104k free,   140220k cached

  PID USER  PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S %CPU %MEMTIME+  COMMAND
 30658 clamav25   0  152m 133m 7856 S  0.0 26.4   0:15.57 clamd

 So clamav does take a good sized chunk.

 You should reduce your /var/qmail/control/concurrencyincoming value. 3
 should be ok. If you have that little mail, you should rarely go over 1.

 You might get by with what you have. The only thing that's memory
 intensive is scanning, both clamav and spamassassin.

 What's your swap look like?


 I think bumping up memory to  512 MB should be good enough for the load you
 anticipate. That's what I use for a low load server such as what you
 outline. Regarding swap - which virtualization software are you using? If
 it's openvz, there's no swap :)

 Bharath