Re: [Qt-creator] Creator stability
Hey Bill! On 25.03.2010 00:46, King Bill (Nokia-D-Qt/Brisbane) wrote: Bringing this over here as was requested ;) I was just criticized for criticizing the quality of creator (on the basis of one bug report). For reference: http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTCREATORBUG-807 is the bug I think Bill is talking about. I thought we were an open company, part of that is being open to criticism when things are not working. I really do not understand this critique: * We did investigate the issue * We evaluated the patch * We asked you to move this discussion from an internal list to a public one. So where exactly were we unresponsive or not open? Creator mainline is not working. I have reports both from internal and external users on a regular basis of either creator not building, or creator crashing upon startup. Yes, there are issues with creator sometimes not building. Unfortunately that can happen in a master branch. I have pushed the externals to submit bugreports, This is great, thanks! Please push the internals as well. but, again, my experience here has been less than glowing. We are trying hard to keep the response time low. From my experience as an developer working on Qt creator my impression is that most bug reports are looked at in less than a day. We do not always update the reports, so this might not always be visible to you as the reporter. We might be able to improve here, but that is a issue of priority: Do we want to keep implementing new features or update the bugtracker? Being close to the front lines of the project, sometimes this can be missed. We all use Qt Creator daily, so we tend to notice crashes and it not building. That is why they do get fixed pretty fast (at least in my experience). For qml usage, bleeding edge is the only choice currently, and the perceived quality of creator from the bleeding edgers is that creator's... not usable at all. This does differ quite drastically from the experience we have here. I am not saying that you are not having this trouble, just that I do experience the quality of creator as very good overall. So now we need to find out where our use cases differ and how we can improve the issue for your workload. I am afraid the best way to do this is by reporting bugs, which you unfortunately seem to not agree with. Do you have a suggestion on how we can improve the situation for you (and others in this thread) short-term? That is not the Qt way, and not a perception we should be having. Creator is an excellent product, Thanks! Finally something we can agree upon;-) and one I use daily, and I'd like to go back to bleeding edge, as that's where all the cool new features are :) I do understand your feelings and like the passion with which you are fighting for a better creator! -- Tobias Hunger Software Engineer Nokia, Qt Development Frameworks Nokia gate5 GmbH Firmensitz: Invalidenstr. 117, 10115 Berlin, Germany Registergericht: Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, Berlin: HRB 106443 B Umsatzsteueridentifikationsnummer: DE 812 845 193 Geschäftsführer: Dr. Michael Halbherr, Karim Tähtivuori ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator
Re: [Qt-creator] Creator stability
From: qt-creator-boun...@trolltech.com [qt-creator-boun...@trolltech.com] On Behalf Of ext Brett Morgan [brett.mor...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 9:29 AM To: qt-creator@trolltech.com Subject: Re: [Qt-creator] Creator stability Kai, I'm compiling and using qt-creator in multiple environments, primarily OSX 10.6 and a variety of Linux distributions. I'm happy to give you details of my environments and stack traces. Cool :) If it's really an 'obvious' thingy like stuff not compiling, the direct lane is to grap someone on #qt-creator (freenode IRC, developers are online primarily within European working time. You can of course grap me directly (kkoehne) if it's QML related). If you don't get any answer there, or the crash isn't easy to reproduce you shouldn't hesitate to file it to the bugtracker: http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTCREATORBUG . It's a bit more work for you, but it ensures that we don't forget about it, and you have a way to track progress :) Thanks in advance, Kai brett -- Kai Koehne Software Engineer Nokia, Qt Development Frameworks Nokia gate5 GmbH Firmensitz: Invalidenstr. 117, 10115 Berlin, Germany Registergericht: Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, Berlin: HRB 106443 B Umsatzsteueridentifikationsnummer: DE 812 845 193 Geschäftsführer: Dr. Michael Halbherr, Karim Tähtivuori ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator
Re: [Qt-creator] Creator stability
On Thursday 25 March 2010 00:46:46 King Bill (Nokia-D-Qt/Brisbane) wrote: Bringing this over here as was requested ;) I was just criticized for criticizing the quality of creator (on the basis of one bug report). I thought we were an open company, part of that is being open to criticism when things are not working. Creator mainline is not working. There is no promise (and never has been) that Creator master branch works (including even the weirdest definitions of works...) If you want something that is known to compile, use a released version. We are happy about anybody actually using master and notifying us about any breakage but there's no guarantee whatsoever that it does anything useful. We are doing our best to fix breakages quickly, though, and so far I had the impression that readers of this list and people on IRC find this concept both comprehensible and acceptable. I have reports both from internal and external users on a regular basis of either creator not building, or creator crashing upon startup. Startup crashes are most of the time caused by unclean builds. git clean -dxf qmake -r make tons of coffee be done. That's not the main problem here. The first problem is that people seem to send their reports about Qt Creator to you and not to us, and the second is that even then those reports do not end up, say, here on the mailing list or in JIRA (barring the current incident). I have pushed the externals to submit bugreports, Good. Chances to get stuff fixed are way better with a decent bug report. but, again, my experience here has been less than glowing. Mind to elaborate? As in your favourite bug has not been fixed the next day? In that case, honestly, I'd have a hard time to feign surprise. Being close to the front lines of the project, sometimes this can be missed. To fix these issues, can we implement some sort of staging/CI system like we have for Qt? Is that what you really want? No integrations for a fortnight because some test broke? I guess that would quickly yield pretty dry blood at the bleeding edge. You can certainly setup a really stable branch guarded by CI if you think this helps, but we basically have that in form of releases. For qml usage, bleeding edge is the only choice currently, and the perceived quality of creator from the bleeding edgers is that creator's... not usable at all. That is not the Qt way, and not a perception we should be having. Creator is an excellent product, and one I use daily, and I'd like to go back to bleeding edge, as that's where all the cool new features are :) It's not a perception I have either. I see Creator master branch used in production outside the company basically daily, and while there are days when one regrets the pull and has to back up it usually work. This is not using QML, though, but application startup is most certainly covered. So back to business: If you have an issue, mention it on #qt-creator or file a bug. Andre' ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator
Re: [Qt-creator] Creator stability
On Thursday 25 March 2010 01:50:12 ext ext Raul Fernandes wrote: Hi, as user of different IDEs, I don't understand why qtcreator is trying to provide more advanced features (such as QML support) if more basic features are not implement/working properly. Important point: how can the team adopts qtcreator as main development environment if it is not even getting more stable? Help fixing it? It's Open Source after all. If you are not happy with the priorities the payed developers set or have to set you are free to implement the missing basic features and file a merge request. This has worked for a quite a few features in the past and there's no reason to believe it would not work again. Also, please note that what you are saying is already in contrast to what Bill said: He wanted QML stable whereas you don't want it at all. So making everybody completely happy is provably not possible. Regards, Andre ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator
Re: [Qt-creator] Creator stability
Frank: I agree with most of what you wrote. I have used the master branch to build Creator from source for a while now, and have to regrets in that regard. Yes, sometimes that have forced me to revamp my Qt installation, but at the end nothing I wouldn't have ended up doing sooner or later. QML? I looked into it, but found very little documentation, or actual examples of how that would help me create a useful GUI (I know the concept, but not how to apply that to my needs). I don't want anyone to take the previous statement as a critic. Everyone posting here probably have different needs, programming habits (and vices), and even preferred tools. Nobody can keep everybody happy 100% of the time. You try that and will certainly sink sooner than later. I would actually take some comments as what I call appraisals in disguise, as they indicate that people with a very wide range of interests, views, needs, and habits, have started to regard Creator as a tool they want to use, or that they have to de facto consider the new kid in the block. I remember a while back that when git first came out it cause something similar...I think that people should perhaps have a little more patience, and let the team do its work: everything looks simpler from the outside. When I have posted a question, a bug, or reported something weird going on, I have always received an answer in a very timely manner, either from the Trolls themselves, or some of the users in the community who have taken pity of my ignorance: thank you. Victor Frank Siegert wrote: André Pönitz, Thursday 25 March 2010: There is no promise (and never has been) that Creator master branch works (including even the weirdest definitions of works...) If you want something that is known to compile, use a released version. We are happy about anybody actually using master and notifying us about any breakage but there's no guarantee whatsoever that it does anything useful. We are doing our best to fix breakages quickly, though, and so far I had the impression that readers of this list and people on IRC find this concept both comprehensible and acceptable. As a completely external user, I would like to support Andre's statement here. I have for several periods been using master and found it incredibly stable in comparison to all other projects' master/trunk/HEAD/... I have used so far. Furthermore I am hugely impressed by the quick turn-around time on bugfixes, feature implementations and also mailing list replies! (if you ignore the occasional Nokia(!) should fix my favorite bug right now mail from external users, who rightfully have been pointed to the open model of Creator development). I have to admit though, that I am not using anything related to QML. Thanks all for providing such a nice product in such an open way! Frank ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator
[Qt-creator] Run Debug buttons in the latest snapshots
I notice that the 2 run and debug buttons are now merged into 1. And works differently depending on if you are in Edit (run) or Debug (debug) mode. I like the previous 2 buttons way better. It allows access to both actions in all modes. I mostly work in Edit mode since it has more real estate to work with in the editor. Now I need to switch to Debug mode to click at the debug button. Of course I can always just hit F5. But if that's the rationale of having just one button, why having button at all then? And if for some reason there can absolutely be one button, make it the debug button all the time. It's way more useful in an IDE. -- Stephen Chu mailto:step...@ju-ju.com http://www.ju-ju.com ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator
Re: [Qt-creator] Run Debug buttons in the latest snapshots
My suggestion would be to have shift+click use the other mode, or add a context menu, or both. /s/ Adam On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 9:16 AM, Stephen Chu step...@ju-ju.com wrote: I notice that the 2 run and debug buttons are now merged into 1. And works differently depending on if you are in Edit (run) or Debug (debug) mode. I like the previous 2 buttons way better. It allows access to both actions in all modes. I mostly work in Edit mode since it has more real estate to work with in the editor. Now I need to switch to Debug mode to click at the debug button. Of course I can always just hit F5. But if that's the rationale of having just one button, why having button at all then? And if for some reason there can absolutely be one button, make it the debug button all the time. It's way more useful in an IDE. -- Stephen Chu mailto:step...@ju-ju.com http://www.ju-ju.com ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator
Re: [Qt-creator] Run Debug buttons in the latest snapshots
On Thu, 2010-03-25 at 11:27 -0400, Stephen Chu wrote: Better yet. Switch between Run and Debug automatically depending on the build config. A good idea, if that status is prominently displayed. On 3/25/10 11:09 AM, Coda Highland wrote: My suggestion would be to have shift+click use the other mode, or add a context menu, or both. /s/ Adam On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 9:16 AM, Stephen Chustep...@ju-ju.com wrote: I notice that the 2 run and debug buttons are now merged into 1. And works differently depending on if you are in Edit (run) or Debug (debug) mode. I like the previous 2 buttons way better. It allows access to both actions in all modes. I mostly work in Edit mode since it has more real estate to work with in the editor. Now I need to switch to Debug mode to click at the debug button. Of course I can always just hit F5. But if that's the rationale of having just one button, why having button at all then? And if for some reason there can absolutely be one button, make it the debug button all the time. It's way more useful in an IDE. -- Stephen Chu mailto:step...@ju-ju.com http://www.ju-ju.com ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator
Re: [Qt-creator] Run Debug buttons in the latest snapshots
On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 10:53 AM, Bernd Stramm bernd.str...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, 2010-03-25 at 11:27 -0400, Stephen Chu wrote: Better yet. Switch between Run and Debug automatically depending on the build config. A good idea, if that status is prominently displayed. It would have to have a default run mode option stored in the build config, since you can have more than just debug and release configs. /s/ Adam ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator
Re: [Qt-creator] Run Debug buttons in the latest snapshots
On Mar 25, 2010, at 4:09 PM, ext Coda Highland wrote: My suggestion would be to have shift+click use the other mode, or add a context menu, or both. Actually you can do that with Qt Creator on the Mac already (Alt+click though) :) But on this platform it is sort of an accepted paradigm that tool buttons can have different meanings while pressing Alt. ++ Eike /s/ Adam On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 9:16 AM, Stephen Chu step...@ju-ju.com wrote: I notice that the 2 run and debug buttons are now merged into 1. And works differently depending on if you are in Edit (run) or Debug (debug) mode. I like the previous 2 buttons way better. It allows access to both actions in all modes. I mostly work in Edit mode since it has more real estate to work with in the editor. Now I need to switch to Debug mode to click at the debug button. Of course I can always just hit F5. But if that's the rationale of having just one button, why having button at all then? And if for some reason there can absolutely be one button, make it the debug button all the time. It's way more useful in an IDE. -- Stephen Chu mailto:step...@ju-ju.com http://www.ju-ju.com ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator -- Eike Ziller Software Engineer Nokia, Qt Development Frameworks Nokia gate5 GmbH Firmensitz: Invalidenstr. 117, 10115 Berlin, Germany Registergericht: Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, Berlin: HRB 106443 B Umsatzsteueridentifikationsnummer: DE 812 845 193 Geschäftsführer: Dr. Michael Halbherr, Karim Tähtivuori ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator
Re: [Qt-creator] Run Debug buttons in the latest snapshots
What about a tool button which remembers the last state (debug/run/etc.) with a click-and-hold action which produces all of the available options, then changes the default button when one is selected? Or is that what you meant by context menu? -Mark Coda Highland wrote: My suggestion would be to have shift+click use the other mode, or add a context menu, or both. /s/ Adam On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 9:16 AM, Stephen Chu step...@ju-ju.com wrote: I notice that the 2 run and debug buttons are now merged into 1. And works differently depending on if you are in Edit (run) or Debug (debug) mode. I like the previous 2 buttons way better. It allows access to both actions in all modes. I mostly work in Edit mode since it has more real estate to work with in the editor. Now I need to switch to Debug mode to click at the debug button. Of course I can always just hit F5. But if that's the rationale of having just one button, why having button at all then? And if for some reason there can absolutely be one button, make it the debug button all the time. It's way more useful in an IDE. -- Stephen Chu mailto:step...@ju-ju.com http://www.ju-ju.com ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator
Re: [Qt-creator] Run Debug buttons in the latest snapshots
On Mar 25, 2010, at 5:15 PM, ext Coda Highland wrote: On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 10:53 AM, Bernd Stramm bernd.str...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, 2010-03-25 at 11:27 -0400, Stephen Chu wrote: Better yet. Switch between Run and Debug automatically depending on the build config. A good idea, if that status is prominently displayed. It would have to have a default run mode option stored in the build config, since you can have more than just debug and release configs. I usually just do a Run (even with a debug build), except for phases during which I'm debugging a specific problem. Also it sounds a bit overkill to add a phalanx of options for the behavior of a single stupid button :) -- Eike Ziller Software Engineer Nokia, Qt Development Frameworks Nokia gate5 GmbH Firmensitz: Invalidenstr. 117, 10115 Berlin, Germany Registergericht: Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, Berlin: HRB 106443 B Umsatzsteueridentifikationsnummer: DE 812 845 193 Geschäftsführer: Dr. Michael Halbherr, Karim Tähtivuori ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator
Re: [Qt-creator] Run Debug buttons in the latest snapshots
On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 05:52:44PM +0100, Eike Ziller wrote: On Mar 25, 2010, at 4:09 PM, ext Coda Highland wrote: My suggestion would be to have shift+click use the other mode, or add a context menu, or both. Actually you can do that with Qt Creator on the Mac already (Alt+click though) :) But on this platform it is sort of an accepted paradigm that tool buttons can have different meanings while pressing Alt. Is there a reason not to use it on non-Mac as well? Andre' ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator
Re: [Qt-creator] Run Debug buttons in the latest snapshots
That's a lot of talk for just a button. Can we just have both of them back? The old design works. Why change it? Small screens, I imagine -- netbooks don't have a lot of vertical screen real estate, so the less you put there, the better. /s/ Adam ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator
Re: [Qt-creator] Creator stability
On Mar 24, 2010, at 10:10 PM, kai.koe...@nokia.com kai.koe...@nokia.com wrote: Well, you can stick to e.g. the Alpha, and even creator 1.3 has some limited QML support. The QML text editor + runtime infrastructure has been pretty stable for me anyhow. Regarding QmlDesigner - yeah, the quality is not yet up to where it should be, but then again it's still in the Alpha stages, and one part of the problem is also that we do have received rather minimal feedback so far. So please, people - if you find something, report it! Creator is working fine for general Qt development for me. My top request is for Creator to include a way in Design mode to specify actions and transitions for QML. I know that opens up a lot of possibilities and a lot of work would be involved. But a good and very useful start would be to allow the designer to specify a transition between states and to specify that a mouse click or double click in a certain mousearea will cause the transition from state A to state B. Thanks, John ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator
Re: [Qt-creator] Creator stability
On 03/25/2010 07:08 PM, Hunger Tobias (Nokia-D/Berlin) wrote: Hey Bill! I thought we were an open company, part of that is being open to criticism when things are not working. I really do not understand this critique: * We did investigate the issue * We evaluated the patch * We asked you to move this discussion from an internal list to a public one. So where exactly were we unresponsive or not open? No, in this case one of your team had a go at me for trying to bring to light the quality issues I'd seen. Creator mainline is not working. I have reports both from internal and external users on a regular basis of either creator not building, or creator crashing upon startup. Yes, there are issues with creator sometimes not building. Unfortunately that can happen in a master branch. I think having a working snapshot may definitely help this. We used to have a qtopia_stable tag in p4, for just this reason, to give us a stable platform so that we could do our qtopia work for the day. Something similar... We are trying hard to keep the response time low. From my experience as an developer working on Qt creator my impression is that most bug reports are looked at in less than a day. We do not always update the reports, so this might not always be visible to you as the reporter. We might be able to improve here, but that is a issue of priority: Do we want to keep implementing new features or update the bugtracker? In this case I got a doesn't happen here and then it was dropped (maybe it was worked on internally), but the email responses from roberto showed that it had pretty much been ignored (even after me adding extra information, and then even a patch to fix the issue). We all use Qt Creator daily, so we tend to notice crashes and it not building. That is why they do get fixed pretty fast (at least in my experience). Next day tho :/ This is why I suggested maybe a CI solution. minimals test of does it build? does it start? does it open a c++ project? (this is where mine was crashing) does it open a qml project?. Even this would boost the quality perception through the roof. For qml usage, bleeding edge is the only choice currently, and the perceived quality of creator from the bleeding edgers is that creator's... not usable at all. This does differ quite drastically from the experience we have here. I am not saying that you are not having this trouble, just that I do experience the quality of creator as very good overall. So now we need to find out where our use cases differ and how we can improve the issue for your workload. I am afraid the best way to do this is by reporting bugs, which you unfortunately seem to not agree with. Do you have a suggestion on how we can improve the situation for you (and others in this thread) short-term? See the bit above. That is not the Qt way, and not a perception we should be having. Creator is an excellent product, Thanks! Finally something we can agree upon;-) and one I use daily, and I'd like to go back to bleeding edge, as that's where all the cool new features are :) I do understand your feelings and like the passion with which you are fighting for a better creator! It's an incredible project, and yeah, it's a project you _can_ get passionate about ;) -- Bill King, Software Engineer Qt Development Frameworks, Nokia Pty Ltd Brisbane Office ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator
Re: [Qt-creator] Creator stability
On 03/25/2010 07:40 PM, Ziller Eike (Nokia-D-Qt/Berlin) wrote: Especially regarding Qt Creator's Qml support, a CI system for Qt Creator would be mostly pointless. Unless it produced a point of stability, say a branch in both qt and creator called qtcreator_stable, that's had minimal build and run testing, it's a known quality that people can understand, currently that's not even available, and you have to rewind one or both until you get something that works. (something that's both difficult and time consuming). Because most of the time when Qt Creator builds break in Qml support, it is because of changes in Qt/QML that don't yet have corresponding changes in Qt Creator. We already have to handle the problem that synchronized changes in Qt and Qt Creator first need the change in Qt/mainline, and only then the corresponding change in Qt Creator can be pushed. That wouldn't get better with yet another process in between for the Qt Creator changes. Also the current CI system is barely able to handle Qt at the moment, resources-wise (that will hopefully be mended, but takes time). We have nighlty builds btw, and there is a (admittedly slow) progress ongoing to move that to pulse, so we'll hopefully profit from the infrastructure there in the longer run. Can I help this somehow? Rohan's just around the corner, so I can pester him in person if it's that that's needed. -- Bill King, Software Engineer Qt Development Frameworks, Nokia Pty Ltd Brisbane Office ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator
Re: [Qt-creator] Creator stability
On 03/25/2010 08:18 PM, Poenitz Andre (Nokia-D-Qt/Berlin) wrote: There is no promise (and never has been) that Creator master branch works (including even the weirdest definitions of works...) If you want something that is known to compile, use a released version. We are happy about anybody actually using master and notifying us about any breakage but there's no guarantee whatsoever that it does anything useful. We are doing our best to fix breakages quickly, though, and so far I had the impression that readers of this list and people on IRC find this concept both comprehensible and acceptable. See my not a perception we should be portraying in a public codebase, and my solution to this (CI build/tag/minimal run testing). I have reports both from internal and external users on a regular basis of either creator not building, or creator crashing upon startup. Startup crashes are most of the time caused by unclean builds. git clean -dxf qmake -r make tons of coffee be done. That's not the main problem here. The first problem is that people seem to send their reports about Qt Creator to you and not to us, and the second is that even then those reports do not end up, say, here on the mailing list or in JIRA (barring the current incident). :) I'm a qt dev, these are all proffesional devs, this is the first thing we tried, when the days it doesn't run outnumber the days it does run, that's a quality issue. I have pushed the externals to submit bugreports, Good. Chances to get stuff fixed are way better with a decent bug report. but, again, my experience here has been less than glowing. Mind to elaborate? As in your favourite bug has not been fixed the next day? In that case, honestly, I'd have a hard time to feign surprise. Doesn't happen here and then perceived as dropped (no response to extra information, no transition to accepted, only now transitioned to open/accepted and prioritsed after nearly 3 weeks). Being close to the front lines of the project, sometimes this can be missed. To fix these issues, can we implement some sort of staging/CI system like we have for Qt? Is that what you really want? No integrations for a fortnight because some test broke? If it takes you a fortnight to get a passing branch, then you have much greater issues than we initially suspected. Pulse builds are down to 4 hours. A minimal set of testing shuould take 3 minutes, so 4 hours turnaround if you haven't broken the build. If you have, then it won't integrate until it's fixed. If that takes a fortnight, then yeah, time to hit up HR for more staff. I guess that would quickly yield pretty dry blood at the bleeding edge. You can certainly setup a really stable branch guarded by CI if you think this helps, but we basically have that in form of releases. Not even pretty stable, just a it compiles, it starts, it opens projects. Most people can accept that, and it will increase the stability perception multiple-fold. For qml usage, bleeding edge is the only choice currently, and the perceived quality of creator from the bleeding edgers is that creator's... not usable at all. That is not the Qt way, and not a perception we should be having. Creator is an excellent product, and one I use daily, and I'd like to go back to bleeding edge, as that's where all the cool new features are :) It's not a perception I have either. I see Creator master branch used in production outside the company basically daily, and while there are days when one regrets the pull and has to back up it usually work. This is not using QML, though, but application startup is most certainly covered. So back to business: If you have an issue, mention it on #qt-creator or file a bug. Andre' ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator -- Bill King, Software Engineer Qt Development Frameworks, Nokia Pty Ltd Brisbane Office ___ Qt-creator mailing list Qt-creator@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-creator
