Re: [QUAD-L] stem cell research
Excellent points John! I totally agree! It's so refreshing to hear a man say this, "I always find it strangely perverse that men seem to want to control women and what they do."Corie (a woman who does not feel the government has the right to tell me what I can and cannot do with my body!) - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; quad-List@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 5:35 PM Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] stem cell research Lets be a bit careful here. We all have different beliefs. Roe v Wade didn't create a law, it struck down laws that are unconstitutional. I don't feel that the gov't has the right to tell me and whatever doctor I choose what I can or can not do. I always find it strangely perverse that men seem to want to control women and what they do. Almost every religion grants men authority over women as if it was a birthright. Because every religion sees it as a birthright. Nobody wants to adopt American children(thank you Oprah and Sally Jessy) Most Asylums and Orphanages have been closed in the past 40 years because of the "stigma" they caused. Now unwanted children are sent to foster homes that have loose oversight and are almost always under funded. Where is that church money? Why isn't it morally important that unwanted children are taken care of. We are a nation of laws as long as the laws are agreeable with us today. Tomorrow, who knows? I find it incredibly hypocritical that people would picket and denounce abortion when they have yet to adopt an American child and picket the fertility clinic. To top that off, they are all extreme conservatives that feel they pay too much in taxes. How do we begin funding an extra 1.5 million unwanted children each year? (By the way, that is 5800 abortions each day and that doesn't include holidays when the clinics aren't open) Some serious problems that won't get better with name calling and really has nothing to do with cloning cells or using human eggs or embryos to cure many of the health problems of people who have been given the gift of life, if not the quality. If you don't believe that we are here as a result of evolution from lower life forms, then how can you have a faith that says that some cells, visible only under a high powered microscope, constitute a human life? john In a message dated 5/27/2005 7:43:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Funny,When a person stands by the morals they believe in, are they the closed minded one?I guess SOME people haven't been paying attention on how easily the activist judges pervert well meaning legistlation.Roe VS Wade: Intent; to make it "LEGAL" for a woman to get an abortion during the "FIRST" Trimester.Activist Judges have:1) turned a "LAW" into a "RIGHT" illegaly w/o an Amendment2) extended that "Illegal Right" to minors w/o parental consent3) now fighting for "partial birth" abortions4) forced TAXPAYERS to bare the financial burden for approx 1.5 MILLION Abortions each yearChild Abuse: has been perverted into parental control by the CPSCan you imagine how far they could pervert cloning?Yes, I agree in stem cell research.No, I'm against human cloning.But the wording of ANY law regarding it must have no loopholes for activist judges.> > At 09:39 AM 5/27/2005, QuadPirate wrote:> >And in America Bush's religeous beliefs are supposed to be in no way > >involved in his decisions as our president, he's supposed to be listening > >to the people not the voices in his head.> > I don't know how you figure that. Everyone makes decisions based on their > own religious or non-religious beliefs.> > So Mark, do you think that any person who has religious beliefs is just > listening to voices in their head or just people who don't agree with you > and your beliefs?> > Jim
[QUAD-L] RE:stem cells
Silas, I'm fairly new to this list and I'm afraid every time I write something it stirs up a can of worms. I didn't know much about stem cells til December when I read an article and got interested. I asked someone here at work what they do with the fetuses after they are aborted ( shows how dumb I am) and he said they incinerate them or throw them in the trash, and I thought what a waste. I work for a large University that has a large trauma center. Most people do think they are given burials...maybe a few do but they are pretty far along...like 5 or 6 months. I had a miscarriage years ago at 5 months and it was very painful. The fetus was put in a jar of some sort of soultion. We were not given the option to bury it. More people need to be made aware of what DOES happen to the fetuses. Maybe then Bush will change his mind. Carol in KY
[QUAD-L] re:stem cells
Dave, I think you took my words out of context. Most people DO NOT know what happens to aborted fetuses. It is my opinion if they are going to die anyway, whay not use to to help people that need help. CArol
Re: [QUAD-L] FORIEN LOTTERY QUESTION
Yes, very old scam comes around to most everyone.
[QUAD-L] Accessible Cell Phones for Tetraplegics, Quadriplegics, and Paraplegics
just found out about this site. http://www.etoengineering.com/paralysis.htm
Re: [QUAD-L] stem cell research
At 05:35 PM 5/27/2005, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you don't believe that we are here as a result of evolution from lower life forms, then how can you have a faith that says that some cells, visible only under a high powered microscope, constitute a human life? But I do believe that God used evolution to create humans. It is a human life from the moment of the union of the human gametes. It's basic biology. If not from that moment then what do you believe constitutes a human life? At what stage of human development do you think life begins and entitled to protection under the law? When you can see it without the use of a high powered microscope? Jim
Re: [QUAD-L] stem cell research
If an embryo is created from a human sperm and a human egg, in nature or by science in a lab, then it is a human being. So an embryo created from a human egg and a somatic cell is not human. That is where I personally draw the line. At 11:53 AM 5/27/2005, QuadPirate wrote: Not a bad point Jim but an embryo can not form by itself in a petri dish. It still needs to be physically put in a womb or test tube just like the sperm needs an egg. So where do you draw the line. Adam didn't need an embryo or sperm so where does life begin? Mark ---Original Message--- From: Jim Lubin Date: 05/27/05 13:15:31 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; quad-List@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] stem cell research At 08:12 AM 5/27/2005, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I still don't get the whole cell thingIf people want to get high tech.then every time a human has sex and does not reproduce then thousands of unborn sperm cells die---this can be from using a condom-having tubes tied-birth control of any type. Each one of these that die are unborn cells alsoI don't look at that as killing life, I think some things are just blown out of porportion. Dan A sperm and an egg are human haploid cells or gametes (sex cells). Haploid cells have a single set of chromosomes in each cell. Most higher organisms are diploid that is, they have two sets but their gametes (sex cells) are haploid. In the document "Scientific and Therapeutic Use of Human Embryonic Stem Cells" http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_academies/acdlife/documents/rc_pa_acdlife_doc_2824_cellule-staminali_en.html On the basis of a complete biological analysis, the living human embryo is - from the moment of the union of the gametes - a human subject with a well defined identity, which from that point begins its own coordinated, continuous and gradual development, such that at no later stage can it be considered as a simple mass of cells
Re: [QUAD-L] stem cell research
That would be just fine. An egg is not a human life. At 06:40 AM 5/27/2005, ~LittleQuad~ wrote: wow, so where does that put me? i would gladly go donate eggs to be used for stem cell research!!! i'm not going to be using them, so why not get something beneficial out of them??? littlequad Jim Lubin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: At 01:50 PM 5/26/2005, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The morality of stem cell research doesn't seem much different than the morality of harvesting body parts from the dead. It would be nice if they wouldn't die, but those embryos that are being destroyed at fertility clinics will be used to help people, or at least try to help mankind. It isn't a proposal to dissect a baby as some people would have you believe. I consider embryonic stem cell research using embryos from IVF more like harvesting parts from a person in a comma or progressive vegetative state, who previously did not consent to be an organ donor, rather than from the dead because the embryo is living before the stem cells are harvested. That is why I personally am against using embryos "leftover" from IVF. So if Bush vetos the bill which just pasted I'm fine with that. I think in vitro fertilization treatments, which creates excess human embryos in the first place, should be ban also. If a couple can not have baby then it's not meant to be and they can adopt. You probably consider me someone with "extreme" views. I am against abortions but don't think it should outlawed either. It should be a rarely considered procedure. I sure don't want it federally funded. I personally do not have a problem with somatic cell nuclear transfer. I think an embryo created from somatic cells are just a clump of cells. Jim Lubin http://makoa.org/jlubin Quad-list Web Page: http://makoa.org/quadlist Spinal Cord Injury Resource Page: http://www.makoa.org/sci.htm http://fly.to/littlequad Yahoo ID - littlequad
Re: [QUAD-L] stem cell research
Lets be a bit careful here. We all have different beliefs. Roe v Wade didn't create a law, it struck down laws that are unconstitutional. I don't feel that the gov't has the right to tell me and whatever doctor I choose what I can or can not do. I always find it strangely perverse that men seem to want to control women and what they do. Almost every religion grants men authority over women as if it was a birthright. Because every religion sees it as a birthright. Nobody wants to adopt American children(thank you Oprah and Sally Jessy) Most Asylums and Orphanages have been closed in the past 40 years because of the "stigma" they caused. Now unwanted children are sent to foster homes that have loose oversight and are almost always under funded. Where is that church money? Why isn't it morally important that unwanted children are taken care of. We are a nation of laws as long as the laws are agreeable with us today. Tomorrow, who knows? I find it incredibly hypocritical that people would picket and denounce abortion when they have yet to adopt an American child and picket the fertility clinic. To top that off, they are all extreme conservatives that feel they pay too much in taxes. How do we begin funding an extra 1.5 million unwanted children each year? (By the way, that is 5800 abortions each day and that doesn't include holidays when the clinics aren't open) Some serious problems that won't get better with name calling and really has nothing to do with cloning cells or using human eggs or embryos to cure many of the health problems of people who have been given the gift of life, if not the quality. If you don't believe that we are here as a result of evolution from lower life forms, then how can you have a faith that says that some cells, visible only under a high powered microscope, constitute a human life? john In a message dated 5/27/2005 7:43:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Funny,When a person stands by the morals they believe in, are they the closed minded one?I guess SOME people haven't been paying attention on how easily the activist judges pervert well meaning legistlation.Roe VS Wade: Intent; to make it "LEGAL" for a woman to get an abortion during the "FIRST" Trimester.Activist Judges have:1) turned a "LAW" into a "RIGHT" illegaly w/o an Amendment2) extended that "Illegal Right" to minors w/o parental consent3) now fighting for "partial birth" abortions4) forced TAXPAYERS to bare the financial burden for approx 1.5 MILLION Abortions each yearChild Abuse: has been perverted into parental control by the CPSCan you imagine how far they could pervert cloning?Yes, I agree in stem cell research.No, I'm against human cloning.But the wording of ANY law regarding it must have no loopholes for activist judges.> > At 09:39 AM 5/27/2005, QuadPirate wrote:> >And in America Bush's religeous beliefs are supposed to be in no way > >involved in his decisions as our president, he's supposed to be listening > >to the people not the voices in his head.> > I don't know how you figure that. Everyone makes decisions based on their > own religious or non-religious beliefs.> > So Mark, do you think that any person who has religious beliefs is just > listening to voices in their head or just people who don't agree with you > and your beliefs?> > Jim
Re: [QUAD-L] WE need to take action
I would be more than happy to help with an organization like that! Right now my state wants to cut all the PCA programs and the republicans think agencies are the way to go! We got lucky again this year and squecked by and the program I am on is still there, BUT I have to pay a premium of $179 a month to keep my medicaid! When my social security rises, then my premium rises. My rent was readjusted but only went down $50, and now with a/c to pay which is $25, I'm almost back to where I was. I will have no extra to pay for van repairs, much less insurance and will not be able to pay for my internet access unless my family helps out. I think my mother would be willing but would want my father to help to--which is only fair--but my stepmother thinks my high credit card payment is 'tough luck' and showed no concern at all. I am going to try and sell some Star Trek and Highlander collectibles on ebay, but that will only help a little and only if I can at least get back what I paid for them 10+ years ago. (anyone got some money to spare for some limited edition gold cards from Star Trek? I'm pretty sure I have one of everyone that was made, including the anniversary editions, in mint condition never taken out of their plastic casings except to see the number out of 10,000 made) I should make a list of what I have. Both Star Trek and Highlander--have a Watchers DVD that has never been opened. Would have to look in my drawer to see what else I have. Well, so much for 'poor ole me', but your org. sounds really active. The Independant living center here has one or 2 people who go to the rehab (Health South) place to talk to in-patients, but most live in rural areas or are from out of state and a lot of times its a "you have to know what questions to ask" type of place. The guy in charge of potential pca's is slow as a slug and is of no help what so ever. take care, Dana [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "QuadPirate" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: ; "Lori Michaelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] WE need to take action Lori, The organization that I work with and single handedly set me up in my house does it all. We actively go to nursing homes around the state and ask people if they want to go home then start with the paper work show them how to find help which is usually family or friend but not always and we go to rehab to help them before they end up in nursing homes. The problem used to be that their help had to work and wait on their first check for about 3 months! So now our organization has a fund to pay them until they get into the system and why it takes 3 months is baffling to all of us. We had a meeting not long ago with the people that run alternative waivers program and brought in the people they are paying so they could see and here exactly what the problems in the system are and they set them back on their heels. There are different services like home modification grants that we also take care of and we have a section 8 grant to help with rental assistant all in one location. it is truly awesome to watch how a person changes when you give their freedom back and I encourage anyone to go to your local ILC and volunteer it s worth it. Mark ---Original Message--- From: Lori Michaelson Date: 05/26/05 20:04:44 To: Quad Subject: [QUAD-L] WE need to take action I'm cross-posting from what I sent to the SCIC list that covers many of the same issues here but here is what I think needs to happen The quad population is so large now and we are all at our wits end trying to get services.] Instead of posting all our problems WE REALLY NEED to pull our resources together as individuals and do what Barbara posted below! Organizations (ILCs, Centers for Rights, Projects on medicine, etc) when ya get right down to it THEY pretty much just EXIST. There is no active plan in motion. We are so tired of trying 100 different organizations to "help" and either get referred elsewhere or they say "we don't do that." WE TOO are at the point OF apathy. But we really need TO get a grassroots effort FOR HELP instead of going through the ~daily & weekly sweat~ of being caregivers and individuals who need HELP! Lori C4/5 complete quad, 25 yrs post Tucson, AZ Husband David - primary caregiver who is there when no one else is ---Original Message--- To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SCIC] Another problem from Bill and Stem cell from ED On 26 May 2005, at 8:35, Barbara Lorenz wrote: I know there is alot of money spent on research, but I wish there was a foundation for $$ to help the day to day living for SCI.
Re: [QUAD-L] stem cell research
If Bush doesn't have the mental ability to put aside his religious beliefs while being the Leader of the "Free World" he shouldn't be in charge. People make decisions all the time without bringing their personal religious beliefs into them or we wouldn't have a single judge in America worth sitting the bench and that's a big reason he's having a few judges philibustered. So Jim, You think that might have just been a joke on Bush and not Religion at all. Mark ---Original Message--- From: Jim Lubin Date: 05/27/05 16:52:47 To: QuadPirate; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; quad-List@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] stem cell research At 09:39 AM 5/27/2005, QuadPirate wrote: And in America Bush's religeous beliefs are supposed to be in no way involved in his decisions as our president, he's supposed to be listening to the people not the voices in his head.I don't know how you figure that. Everyone makes decisions based on their own religious or non-religious beliefs.So Mark, do you think that any person who has religious beliefs is just listening to voices in their head or just people who don't agree with you and your beliefs? Jim
Re: [QUAD-L] FORIEN LOTTERY QUESTION
I probably win over 5 million dollars a year at those French Lotteries. Unfortunately I won't give them my personal info to transfer all that money into my bank account. My loss. W In a message dated 5/27/05 5:59:32 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << does anybody remember about the foreign lottery winning tickets that were posted a while back was there anything to and how did the people go about collecting the money the reason I want know is because I have received an email from France saying I have won just curious if anybody knew if it was a scam >>
Re: [QUAD-L] stem cell research
Funny, When a person stands by the morals they believe in, are they the closed minded one? I guess SOME people haven't been paying attention on how easily the activist judges pervert well meaning legistlation. Roe VS Wade: Intent; to make it "LEGAL" for a woman to get an abortion during the "FIRST" Trimester. Activist Judges have: 1) turned a "LAW" into a "RIGHT" illegaly w/o an Amendment 2) extended that "Illegal Right" to minors w/o parental consent 3) now fighting for "partial birth" abortions 4) forced TAXPAYERS to bare the financial burden for approx 1.5 MILLION Abortions each year Child Abuse: has been perverted into parental control by the CPS Can you imagine how far they could pervert cloning? Yes, I agree in stem cell research. No, I'm against human cloning. But the wording of ANY law regarding it must have no loopholes for activist judges. > > At 09:39 AM 5/27/2005, QuadPirate wrote: > >And in America Bush's religeous beliefs are supposed to be in no way > >involved in his decisions as our president, he's supposed to be listening > >to the people not the voices in his head. > > I don't know how you figure that. Everyone makes decisions based on their > own religious or non-religious beliefs. > > So Mark, do you think that any person who has religious beliefs is just > listening to voices in their head or just people who don't agree with you > and your beliefs? > > Jim > -- Freedom: United States Constitution© 1791 All Rights Preserved My first Domain http://nw-in.com/index.html http://quads.nw-in.com/quad-enter.html Pics http://quads.nw-in.com/quad-list/quad-list1.htm Home page. http://tnthompson0.tripod.com/homeincyberspace/ Computer Graphics portfolio. http://tnthompson1.tripod.com/index.htm
Re: [QUAD-L] FORIEN LOTTERY QUESTION
Unless YOU entered, it's a scam. ALWAYS stunt > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > > does anybody remember about the foreign lottery winning tickets that were posted a while back was there anything to and how did the people go about collecting the money the reason I want know is because I have received an email from France saying I have won just curious if anybody knew if it was a scam > -- Freedom: United States Constitution© 1791 All Rights Preserved My first Domain http://nw-in.com/index.html http://quads.nw-in.com/quad-enter.html Pics http://quads.nw-in.com/quad-list/quad-list1.htm Home page. http://tnthompson0.tripod.com/homeincyberspace/ Computer Graphics portfolio. http://tnthompson1.tripod.com/index.htm
[QUAD-L] FORIEN LOTTERY QUESTION
does anybody remember about the foreign lottery winning tickets that were posted a while back was there anything to and how did the people go about collecting the money the reason I want know is because I have received an email from France saying I have won just curious if anybody knew if it was a scam
Re: [QUAD-L] stem cell research
At 09:39 AM 5/27/2005, QuadPirate wrote: And in America Bush's religeous beliefs are supposed to be in no way involved in his decisions as our president, he's supposed to be listening to the people not the voices in his head. I don't know how you figure that. Everyone makes decisions based on their own religious or non-religious beliefs. So Mark, do you think that any person who has religious beliefs is just listening to voices in their head or just people who don't agree with you and your beliefs? Jim
Re: [QUAD-L] RE: stem cells
So far the most promising stem cell research has been happening in South Korea, and where did they stem cells from? Hwang and his colleagues created the new stem-cell lines using a technique similar to the one used to produce Dolly the sheep in 1996. One key to their success was using freshly harvested eggs from young, fertile women, rather than embryos left over from fertility clinics. The women who volunteered for the study signed informed-consent agreements, and were not paid. To perform cloning, scientists remove the nucleus from an egg and replace it with a cell from the person to be cloned, often a skin cell. Typically, scientists suck out the nucleus using a hollow needle, but the Korean team instead made a small tear in the egg and gently squeezed out the nucleus. They inserted a skin cell through the tear, then jolted the cells with an electric shock to fuse the cells and begin cell division. http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,67575,00.html I also found it interesting that we are debating spending hundreds of million of dollars, the Korean stem cell study funded on $200,000 a year. http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/SEO272559.htm http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,67599,00.html At 08:58 AM 5/27/2005, Silas Shelburne wrote: Good thinking Carol, If you find a way to open some eyes let me know if I can help. What if us all quads and family and friends sign a petition or write a letter with all our signatures, maybe it would make them (Bush) relize just how many votes we represent. Hell lets get our heads together and think of something before its to late. There's little quad willing to donate her eggs to help. Your so sweet! It should be our choice, hell this is a free country. If someone like little quad won'ts to donate her left over eggs, who has the right to stop her? Come on guys, some of you really know how the system works. Silas - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: quad-List@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 9:03 PM Subject: [QUAD-L] RE: stem cells In my opinion most of the dilemma is about aborted fetuses. Majority of the people think that these poor little babies are killed and then buried. This is very far from the truth. These fetuses DO NOT get buried. They get INCINERATED and are useless to anyone. I believe we need to get this fact out in mass publication to the general public. Perhaps then most would change their minds. I also think we should get out of Iraq and the middle east and use that money towards stem cell research. We need to focus on ourselves instead of war. Just my thoughts Carol in KY
[QUAD-L] TESTING
Re: [QUAD-L] stem cell research
that hasn't led to anything good yet! we would all be better off if he was drinkin' and snortin'! dave headman c4 26yrs post From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], quad-List@eskimo.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] stem cell research Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 14:09:50 EDT I'm trying to remember when Bush's religious beliefs led to something good..oohhyea, that was when he stopped drinking and taking drugs.. john _ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
Re: [QUAD-L] stem cell research
Not a bad point Jim but an embryo can not form by itself in a petri dish. It still needs to be physically put in a womb or test tube just like the sperm needs an egg. So where do you draw the line. Adam didn't need an embryo or sperm so where does life begin? Mark ---Original Message--- From: Jim Lubin Date: 05/27/05 13:15:31 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; quad-List@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] stem cell research At 08:12 AM 5/27/2005, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I still don't get the whole cell thingIf people want to get high tech.then every time a human has sex and does not reproduce then thousands of unborn sperm cells die---this can be from using a condom-having tubes tied-birth control of any type. Each one of these that die are unborn cells alsoI don't look at that as killing life, I think some things are just blown out of porportion. DanA sperm and an egg are human haploid cells or gametes (sex cells). Haploid cells have a single set of chromosomes in each cell. Most higher organisms are diploid that is, they have two sets but their gametes (sex cells) are haploid. In the document "Scientific and Therapeutic Use of Human Embryonic Stem Cells" http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_academies/acdlife/documents/rc_pa_acdlife_doc_2824_cellule-staminali_en.html On the basis of a complete biological analysis, the living human embryo is - from the moment of the union of the gametes - a human subject with a well defined identity, which from that point begins its own coordinated, continuous and gradual development, such that at no later stage can it be considered as a simple mass of cells
Re: [QUAD-L] stem cell research
I only know one legal way to define what is right in this argument, we must consult the almighty, the all knowing, yes, Insurance companies. They decide what an act of God is? They must know him. john
Re: [QUAD-L] stem cell research
At 08:12 AM 5/27/2005, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I still don't get the whole cell thingIf people want to get high tech.then every time a human has sex and does not reproduce then thousands of unborn sperm cells die---this can be from using a condom-having tubes tied-birth control of any type. Each one of these that die are unborn cells alsoI don't look at that as killing life, I think some things are just blown out of porportion. Dan A sperm and an egg are human haploid cells or gametes (sex cells). Haploid cells have a single set of chromosomes in each cell. Most higher organisms are diploid that is, they have two sets but their gametes (sex cells) are haploid. In the document "Scientific and Therapeutic Use of Human Embryonic Stem Cells" http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_academies/acdlife/documents/rc_pa_acdlife_doc_2824_cellule-staminali_en.html On the basis of a complete biological analysis, the living human embryo is - from the moment of the union of the gametes - a human subject with a well defined identity, which from that point begins its own coordinated, continuous and gradual development, such that at no later stage can it be considered as a simple mass of cells
Re: [QUAD-L] stem cell research
I'm trying to remember when Bush's religious beliefs led to something good..oohhyea, that was when he stopped drinking and taking drugs.. john
[QUAD-L] Apria?
I'm interviewing the Insurance Companies that I can get and one problem is they contract with different "Durable Medical Equipment" suppliers. One company uses Apria in Phoenix and one uses Preferred Medical in Mesa/Tempe. I went to Preferred Medical once and they were great people. I called Apria to ask some questions, but they were not real helpful. These insurance companies are basically the same, but the one that is a little better uses Preferred Medical. Has anyone used Apria? I guess it's a national thing. The real difference in these insurance places are finding the closest doctor, and hospital stays. One chares a flat $300 each stay no matter how long, the other is $100 a day fot days 1-10 then $0. They all cover generic prescriptions, none cover brand names. Thanks, Greg
Re: [QUAD-L] stem cell research
Jim I don't think they consented to be thrown in the trash either but you don't see the public outraged when that's done. And the donor does give consent to have the embryo used for research. Did anyone catch this on cbs this morning. Not really related but still shows how much 1 person can do when they donate. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/05/26/earlyshow/series/main698030.shtml And in America Bush's religeous beliefs are supposed to be in no way involved in his decisions as our president, he's supposed to be listening to the people not the voices in his head. Mark ---Original Message--- From: Jim Lubin Date: 05/26/05 20:19:25 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; quad-List@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] stem cell research At 01:50 PM 5/26/2005, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The morality of stem cell research doesn't seem much different than the morality of harvesting body parts from the dead. It would be nice if they wouldn't die, but those embryos that are being destroyed at fertility clinics will be used to help people, or at least try to help mankind. It isn't a proposal to dissect a baby as some people would have you believe. I consider embryonic stem cell research using embryos from IVF more like harvesting parts from a person in a comma or progressive vegetative state, who previously did not consent to be an organ donor, rather than from the dead because the embryo is living before the stem cells are harvested. That is why I personally am against using embryos "leftover" from IVF. So if Bush vetos the bill which just pasted I'm fine with that.I think in vitro fertilization treatments, which creates excess human embryos in the first place, should be ban also. If a couple can not have baby then it's not meant to be and they can adopt. You probably consider me someone with "extreme" views.I am against abortions but don't think it should outlawed either. It should be a rarely considered procedure. I sure don't want it federally funded.I personally do not have a problem with somatic cell nuclear transfer. I think an embryo created from somatic cells are just a clump of cells. Jim Lubinhttp://makoa.org/jlubin Quad-list Web Page: http://makoa.org/quadlistSpinal Cord Injury Resource Page: http://www.makoa.org/sci.htm
Re: [QUAD-L] WE need to take action
Lori, The organization that I work with and single handedly set me up in my house does it all. We actively go to nursing homes around the state and ask people if they want to go home then start with the paper work show them how to find help which is usually family or friend but not always and we go to rehab to help them before they end up in nursing homes. The problem used to be that their help had to work and wait on their first check for about 3 months! So now our organization has a fund to pay them until they get into the system and why it takes 3 months is baffling to all of us. We had a meeting not long ago with the people that run alternative waivers program and brought in the people they are paying so they could see and here exactly what the problems in the system are and they set them back on their heels. There are different services like home modification grants that we also take care of and we have a section 8 grant to help with rental assistant all in one location. it is truly awesome to watch how a person changes when you give their freedom back and I encourage anyone to go to your local ILC and volunteer it's worth it. Mark ---Original Message--- From: Lori Michaelson Date: 05/26/05 20:04:44 To: Quad Subject: [QUAD-L] WE need to take action I'm cross-posting from what I sent to the SCIC list that covers many of the same issues here but here is what I think needs to happen The quad population is so large now and we are all at our wits end trying to get services.] Instead of posting all our problems WE REALLY NEED to pull our resources together as individuals and do what Barbara posted below! Organizations (ILCs, Centers for Rights, Projects on medicine, etc) when ya get right down to it THEY pretty much just EXIST. There is no active plan in motion. We are so tired of trying 100 different organizations to "help" and either get referred elsewhere or they say "we don't do that." WE TOO are at the point OF apathy. But we really need TO get a grassroots effort FOR HELP instead of going through the ~daily & weekly sweat~ of being caregivers and individuals who need HELP! Lori C4/5 complete quad, 25 yrs post Tucson, AZ Husband David - primary caregiver who is there when no one else is ---Original Message--- To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SCIC] Another problem from Bill and Stem cell from ED On 26 May 2005, at 8:35, Barbara Lorenz wrote:> I know there is alot of money spent on research, but I wish there was> a foundation for $$ to help the day to day living for SCI.
Re: [QUAD-L] RE: stem cells
Good thinking Carol, If you find a way to open some eyes let me know if I can help. What if us all quads and family and friends sign a petition or write a letter with all our signatures, maybe it would make them (Bush) relize just how many votes we represent. Hell lets get our heads together and think of something before its to late. There's little quad willing to donate her eggs to help. Your so sweet! It should be our choice, hell this is a free country. If someone like little quad won'ts to donate her left over eggs, who has the right to stop her? Come on guys, some of you really know how the system works. Silas - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: quad-List@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 9:03 PM Subject: [QUAD-L] RE: stem cells In my opinion most of the dilemma is about aborted fetuses. Majority of the people think that these poor little babies are killed and then buried. This is very far from the truth. These fetuses DO NOT get buried. They get INCINERATED and are useless to anyone. I believe we need to get this fact out in mass publication to the general public. Perhaps then most would change their minds. I also think we should get out of Iraq and the middle east and use that money towards stem cell research. We need to focus on ourselves instead of war. Just my thoughts Carol in KY
Re: [QUAD-L] stem cell research
That just puts you in a very caring and compassionate class of people that are tired of seeing all the suffering. Mark ---Original Message--- From: ~LittleQuad~ Date: 05/27/05 08:41:51 To: Jim Lubin; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; quad-List@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] stem cell research wow, so where does that put me? i would gladly go donate eggs to be used for stem cell research!!! i'm not going to be using them, so why not get something beneficial out of them??? littlequadJim Lubin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: At 01:50 PM 5/26/2005, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The morality of stem cell research doesn't seem much different than the morality of harvesting body parts from the dead. It would be nice if they wouldn't die, but those embryos that are being destroyed at fertility clinics will be used to help people, or at least try to help mankind. It isn't a proposal to dissect a baby as some people would have you believe. I consider embryonic stem cell research using embryos from IVF more like harvesting parts from a person in a comma or progressive vegetative state, who previously did not consent to be an organ donor, rather than from the dead because the embryo is living before the stem cells are harvested. That is why I personally am against using embryos "leftover" from IVF. So if Bush vetos the bill which just pasted I'm fine with that.I think in vitro fertilization treatments, which creates excess human embryos in the first place, should be ban also. If a couple c! an not have baby then it's not meant to be and they can adopt. You probably consider me someone with "extreme" views.I am against abortions but don't think it should outlawed either. It should be a rarely considered procedure. I sure don't want it federally funded.I personally do not have a problem with somatic cell nuclear transfer. I think an embryo created from somatic cells are just a clump of cells. Jim Lubinhttp://makoa.org/jlubin Quad-list Web Page: http://makoa.org/quadlistSpinal Cord Injury Resource Page: http://www.makoa.org/sci.htm http://fly.to/littlequad Yahoo ID - littlequad
[QUAD-L] Naming a book on the system & aides
In a message dated 5/27/2005 10:26:21 AM Central Standard Time, TheOmen723 writes: WHAT ABOUT CARE TAKERS OR DON'T CAREGIVERS??? In a message dated 5/26/2005 8:00:51 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My husband thought the title should be IT COULD HAPPEN TO YOU! Lori ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 05/25/05 23:17:50 To: quad-list@eskimo.com Subject: [QUAD-L] Re: aides or caregivers Perhaps we should name this book EXCUSES caregivers give to not show up for work. With another chapter about reasons they need to leave early. I'm so exhausted from taking care of all the paperwork I don';t have time to write a book But if any of you decide to write this book I can give you a list of experiences we have had. also my other son is a writer for a newspaper. He is a good writer, can proof read anything you want to write. Maybe instead of a book it could be an ongoing series in a large newspaper. Actually I think it is the work ethic of today's people in this line of work. For each good person you find there will be at least 10 bad ones. Just my observations, Carol in KY --- Begin Message --- WHAT ABOUT CARE TAKERS OR DON'T CAREGIVERS??? In a message dated 5/26/2005 8:00:51 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My husband thought the title should be IT COULD HAPPEN TO YOU! Lori ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 05/25/05 23:17:50 To: quad-list@eskimo.com Subject: [QUAD-L] Re: aides or caregivers Perhaps we should name this book EXCUSES caregivers give to not show up for work. With another chapter about reasons they need to leave early. I'm so exhausted from taking care of all the paperwork I don';t have time to write a book But if any of you decide to write this book I can give you a list of experiences we have had. also my other son is a writer for a newspaper. He is a good writer, can proof read anything you want to write. Maybe instead of a book it could be an ongoing series in a large newspaper. Actually I think it is the work ethic of today's people in this line of work. For each good person you find there will be at least 10 bad ones. Just my observations, Carol in KY --- End Message ---
Re: [QUAD-L] stem cell research
I still don't get the whole cell thingIf people want to get high tech.then every time a human has sex and does not reproduce then thousands of unborn sperm cells die---this can be from using a condom-having tubes tied-birth control of any type. Each one of these that die are unborn cells alsoI don't look at that as killing life, I think some things are just blown out of porportion. Dan
Re: [QUAD-L] stem cell research
wow, so where does that put me? i would gladly go donate eggs to be used for stem cell research!!! i'm not going to be using them, so why not get something beneficial out of them??? littlequadJim Lubin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: At 01:50 PM 5/26/2005, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The morality of stem cell research doesn't seem much different than the morality of harvesting body parts from the dead. It would be nice if they wouldn't die, but those embryos that are being destroyed at fertility clinics will be used to help people, or at least try to help mankind. It isn't a proposal to dissect a baby as some people would have you believe. I consider embryonic stem cell research using embryos from IVF more like harvesting parts from a person in a comma or progressive vegetative state, who previously did not consent to be an organ donor, rather than from the dead because the embryo is living before the stem cells are harvested. That is why I personally am against using embryos "leftover" from IVF. So if Bush vetos the bill which just pasted I'm fine with that.I think in vitro fertilization treatments, which creates excess human embryos in the first place, should be ban also. If a couple c! an not have baby then it's not meant to be and they can adopt. You probably consider me someone with "extreme" views.I am against abortions but don't think it should outlawed either. It should be a rarely considered procedure. I sure don't want it federally funded.I personally do not have a problem with somatic cell nuclear transfer. I think an embryo created from somatic cells are just a clump of cells. Jim Lubinhttp://makoa.org/jlubin Quad-list Web Page: http://makoa.org/quadlistSpinal Cord Injury Resource Page: http://www.makoa.org/sci.htm http://fly.to/littlequad Yahoo ID - littlequad
Re: [QUAD-L] dead phishers
WAY TO GO DAVE !!! GET EM ALL -- THAT IS SO COOL..I HAD THE PAY-PAL ONE PLUS A FEW OTHERS TRY TO GET ME ALSO. Dan
Re: [QUAD-L] RE: stem cells
MY wish is to be INCINERATED when i'm done here since at that time i will also be usless to anyone. Are you suggesting that the aborted fetuses are burried or burned alive? Is there a big difference between burial and incineration to you? About the changing minds, would that be not to abort them or not to incinerate them? The middle east is far more complicated than just getting out. You haven't forgotten the lessons of isolationism already have you? Dave P.S. how's the condom cath working?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In my opinion most of the dilemma is about aborted fetuses. Majority of the people think that these poor little babies are killed and then buried. This is very far from the truth. These fetuses DO NOT get buried. They get INCINERATED and are useless to anyone. I believe we need to get this fact out in mass publication to the general public. Perhaps then most would change their minds. I also think we should get out of Iraq and the middle east and use that money towards stem cell research. We need to focus on ourselves instead of war. Just my thoughts Carol in KYDave(what's a quad?) Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site!
