date:20070409

 
 
boy, I sure wish we could get a gimp into the white house.  I thought  for 
sure superman could get things going.
Dave
 
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 4/7/2007 6:18:34 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

SIX STEM CELL FACTS
The public discussion of human  embryo research has too often lacked 
intellectual honesty, which has only  compounded the confusion of an issue of 
great 
scientific and moral complexity,  say Robert P. George professor of 
jurisprudence at Princeton University and a  member of the President's Council 
on 
Bioethics and Rev. Thomas V. Berg,  executive director of the Westchester 
Institute 
for Ethics and the Human  Person.

Consequently, there are certain facts on which people on either  side of the 
moral debate should be able to agree, say George and Berg.   For example:  
*   There is no "ban" on human embryonic stem cell (ESC) research in the  
United States; the federal government has funded such research to the tune  
of $130 million dollars since 2001, and the United States continues to be  the 
international leader in the field.  
*   We are a long way away from therapies derived from embryonic stem 
cells;  many leading stem cell researchers have echoed the fact that there may 
be 
no  breakthrough any time soon.  
*   Standard embryology texts insist that from the zygote (single-cell  
embryo) stage forward there exists a new living member of the species homo  
sapiens that has the active potential to develop by an internally directed  
process towards maturity. 

Also:  
*   There are non-controversial alternatives worth exploring; such as  
the reprogramming of ordinary somatic (body) cells, the derivation of stem  
cells from amniotic fluid, and (assuming that it can be shown that the  product 
is 
not an embryo), altered nuclear transfer.  
*   Concerns about embryo destruction are not only religious; but merely  
a healthy respect for the human capacity for doing evil in pursuit of the  
good.  
*   The search for cures is not the only motive behind ESC research,; 
many  scientists are interested only in enhancing basic scientific knowledge of 
 
such things as cell signaling, tissue growth and early human development.  

Source: Robert P. George and Thomas V. Berg, "Six Stem Cell  Facts," Wall 
Street Journal, March 14, 2007.

For text:

_http://online.wsj.com/article/SB117384191108736444.html_ 
(http://online.wsj.com/article/SB117384191108736444.html)   






Dave  _Visit My Home  Page_ (http://www.users.qwest.net/~daveoc/index.html) 



** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Re: [QUAD-L] sex

 
 
that would take a hell of a vacuum.!!!
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 4/7/2007 6:38:35 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 


does  anyone have sex with an indwelling catheter?


this sounds risky to me... am i the only one? it could be pulled out or  
cause infection... yikes!


=jessica

















=



 
Dave  _Visit My Home  Page_ (http://www.users.qwest.net/~daveoc/index.html) 



** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

10-4 g/f. My ab wife prefers a good massage from my fairly functional hand
as the 'normal' positions force all the 'work' onto her and don't really
allow her to relax and enjoy the moment. We've been together for 33 years
now
and 'performance' has never been an issue. We have 3 healthy kids and 4 grand
kids now. I fed, diapered, and took my kids everywhere, and now i'm driving
the grands around to schools and soccer games. Don't ever accept that you
can't do something before you try it a dozen or two times. Sure it's hard,
easy is for sissies and incompetents. We're above that.
Dave
_Dave & Patty's Grandkids_ (http://ocgrands.com/)

In a message dated 4/8/2007 7:14:37 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Ok...I always have to jump in on this subject. I am an Ab girlfriend of a
quad...(Hi honey!). Sex is not an issues as far as I am concerned. I think he
worries more about it than I do. First of all there is more than one way to
please a woman. I very much enjoy the intimacy that we have. I have never been
so close to anyone. It takes a special bond to get over the embarrasing
issuses of sex and quad-dom. You have to be very open and have an open mind to
new
ideas. The only issues that I have is lack of privacy and time. For
me...satisfaction is not a problem. I am sure that HE would be more happier
with more
orgasms for his part...wouldn't we all...LOL. I am not sure how to say what
I am trying to get accross. If you truly love someone then sex will work
itself out. If you are with the right partner then any issues can be worked
around with a little creativity. I am sure some AB's that know we are in a
relationship have their heads spinning trying to figure us out!
Just be open and talk honsestly with your partnerif they are not
comfortable with the situation...then get a new partner. Guys...quit worring
so much
and relax! I promise that sex for women is mostly in our heads...compliment
us..makes us feel special and wanted. That is what we all need most. If young
guys would learn this from the beginning they would have it made. Some
things do get better with age. HAVE FUN!

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Women can, but men can't. How unfair is that.
Be cautious. Bacteria is always present in the bladder of the person with
the injury.
But it can be done. It has been done and it continues to be done.
Best Wishes
W

In a message dated 4/7/2007 8:38:35 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

does anyone have sex with an indwelling catheter?

this sounds risky to me... am i the only one? it could be pulled out or
cause infection... yikes!

=jessica

See what's free at _AOL.com_ (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=AOLAOF0002000503)
.

Now that's room service! _Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel_
(http://travel.yahoo.com/hotelsearchpage;_ylc=X3oDMTFtaTIzNXVjBF9TAzk3NDA3NTg5BF9zAzI3MTk0ODEEcG9zAzIEc2VjA21haWx0Y
WdsaW5lBHNsawNxMS0wNw--) to find your fit.

Dave _Visit My Home Page_ (http://www.users.qwest.net/~daveoc/index.html)

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Re: [QUAD-L] Six Stem Cell Facts

 
 
All this sure was easier (philosophically anyway) in the old days when  
playing with God's work wasn't possible.  All medicine - treatments -  
procedures - 
are fiddling with HIS design and work.  It's pretty tough to  'half-learn' 
anything once you get started.  HE didn't make us with the  'give up' gene 
activated just because we are at a certain level.   If  so, it would have 
activated 
a long time ago.
Dave
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 4/8/2007 11:04:36 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I am against the whole IVF process that creates excess embryos to begin  
with. 

The frozen embryos can continued to be stored indefinitely.  What's wrong 
with that? Are you concerned about the energy being used to keep  them frozen? 
The embryos that are unfrozen eventually die a natural death,  just as every 
other living thing, then cremated. That is quite different then  killing it by 
removing stem cells to use in someone else. Even organ donors  are declared 
dead 
by some standards before there organs are removed. #  S.5—Stem Cell Research 
Enhancement Act of 2007 doesn't even do that; it just  states that the embryos 
were in excess of the clinical need of the individuals  seeking such 
treatment. and would never be implanted in a woman. 

I  want my spinal cord repaired so I can breathe without a ventilator and  
possibly move independently, but I don't want it so badly that I will end  
another human life just for the possible improve my own life. I don't  
understand 
how those wanting to use stem cells from embryos can't comprehend  that. An 
embryo is a human life, and put into the right environment, will  continue to 
develop and grow. I'm not so self centered that improving my life  should come 
at 
the cost of another life.

There are other sources of  pluripotent stem cells, sources such as umbilical 
chords and amniotic fluid.  There is also somatic cell nuclear transfer 
(therapeutic cloning) which I  don't have a problem with.

On a side note, my cousin just gave birth to  a son last week. He was the 
result of IVF from her egg and her husband's  sperm. They had 8 viable embryos. 
The first 7 she did not carry full term. I'm  happy for them that the last one 
she was able to carry to term and mom and son  are doing fine.

Jim

At 08:04 AM 4/8/2007, Dan wrote:

So what do you do with the  thousands of excess fertilized eggs that result 
from in vitro fertilization?  Store them forever? Ban the process? These excess 
eggs are thrown into the  garbage everyday yet I don't hear anyone 
complaining. So what's your  answer.

Dan 


At 07:50 PM 4/7/2007 -0700, Jim Lubin said  something that elicited my 
response:


Glad to see you partly agree  with me Dan. (yes I realize you were being 
sarcastic) I don't agree with  the part about having elaborate funerals and 
burying them, but yes we must  not destroy unused fertilized eggs created for 
IVF  
treatments.

Using unused embryos is not the same as organ donation  because organ donor 
are dead before organs are harvested. Removing stem  cells from an embryo kills 
the embryo. 

I've listened to Dr Kerr  from Johns Hopkins talk a few times about his 
research. _http://www.hopkinsneuro.org/tm/_ (http://www.hopkinsneuro.org/tm/) 
watch his  presentation at the 2006 symposium here 
_http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2767307331641285489&hl=en_ 
(http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2767307331641285489&hl=en)   
he mentioned that they want to use the embryos created for IVF that  are 
deformed (something to that effect) and can not be used for in-vitro  
treatment. 
Now I can go along with using those that could not be used to  result in a 
pregnancy. 

I agree with S. 30: A bill to intensify  research to derive human pluripotent 
stem cell lines


At 06:35  PM 4/7/2007, Dan wrote:

Yes, yes, yes! We must not  destroy all those useless fertilized eggs. We 
should let them perish on  their own and then we should have an elaborate 
funeral 
and bury them in  a tiny little plot of earth. AND we must not allow abortion 
at ANY cost.  Thank you Jesus! Hallelujah! 

Dan, who always gives great  credence to anything authored by a reverend. 

At 06:15 PM  4/7/2007 -0700, Jim Lubin said something that elicited my  
response:










SIX STEM CELL FACTS




*   There are non-controversial alternatives worth exploring;  such as 
the reprogramming of ordinary somatic (body) cells, the  derivation of stem 
cells from amniotic fluid, and (assuming that it  can be shown that the product 
is 
not an embryo), altered nuclear  transfer.  
*   Concerns about embryo destruction are not only religious; but  merely 
a healthy respect for the human capacity for doing evil in  pursuit of the 
good.  
*   The search for cures is not the only motive behind ESC  research,; 
many scientists are interested only in enhancing basic  scientific knowledge of 
such things as cell signaling, tissue growth  and early human development. 



S

Re: [QUAD-L] Six Stem Cell Facts

 
 
Jim,
Just out of curiosity, what if your body held the answer to cure SCI and  
Parkensons but in order to release that secret to the medical community, you 
had  
to die.   We couldn't wait until you died naturally, we must have you  now or 
it won't work.  Would you volunteer your life for the other 6  billion of us 
in the world?
Dave
 
 
 
In a message dated 4/8/2007 5:30:45 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Risking a life and taking a chance is not the same as willfully  terminating 
a life. I wasn't happy that she was doing IVF because I don't  agree with it. 
I also wasn't paying the thousands of dollars the treatments  cost. She and 
her husband had decided that if the first implantation had been  successful 
they 
were going to keep the rest frozen because they considered the  embryos their 
unborn children. 

I don't agree with the whole process,  but it's not up to me. It just 
compounds the problem by saying the embryos are  left over and going die anyway 
so 
might as well use them for some research to  make someone else better.

Again, I could understand that for those who  don't consider a 50-150 celled 
human embryo a human life you wouldn't have a  problem with using them for 
research. It's just a meaningless clump of cells  to you. Are you so closed 
minded to see why someone who considers it a life  would have a problem using 
that 
life for research to improve someone else's  life? Would you feel the same if 
you did consider it a life? 

At 04:15  PM 4/8/2007, RollinOn wrote:

Yes  Jim,
But there was a chance that she wouldn’t have naturally and it was a  risk 
she was willing to take.
If the first would’ve not failed then the  others would’ve been trashed and 
it happens daily, and fertilizing an egg  and implanting it is “not” natural.
I know she didn’t willfully terminate  the embryos but she took a risk that 
it could happen so you can’t have it  both ways and say she wasn’t willing to 
risk human life (as you see it)  because it was successful, it’s still risking 
human life.

I’m  not saying anything is wrong with this procedure btw I think it’s great 
for  people who want children and can’t naturally but research won’t be 
killing  any more or less regardless of any laws being passed, meaning all this 
work  and uproar and not one life saved but science and research could save the 
 
suffering of millions and they’re the killers!

Mark Jackson
RollinOn






From: Jim  Lubin [_ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) ] 
Sent: Sunday,  April 08, 2007 3:11 PM
To: Dan;  quad-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] Six Stem Cell  Facts

Dan,

Her eggs were harvested then fertilized with  her husbands sperms, this 
resulted in 8 embryos. Four were implanted in  uterus, all 4 failed to develop 
and 
she had a miscarriage. Several month  later she had 3 more implanted and those 
failed to develop. 

How  could anyone possibly equate a miscarriage, the natural or spontaneous 
end  of a pregnancy at a stage where the embryo or the fetus is incapable of  
surviving, as a murderous act? She didn't willfully terminate the first 7  
embryos, they failed to develop. 


At 12:33 PM 4/8/2007, Dan  wrote:

At 11:01 AM 4/8/2007 -0700, Jim Lubin said something that  elicited my 
response:


I am against the whole IVF process  that creates excess embryos to begin 
with. 


On a side note, my  cousin just gave birth to a son last week. He was the 
result of IVF from her  egg and her husband's sperm. They had 8 viable embryos. 
The first 7 she did  not carry full term. I'm happy for them that the last one 
she was able to  carry to term and mom and son are doing fine.

Jim

This is  where your argument falls apart. First you say you are "against the 
whole  IVF process that creates excess embryos to begin with." And that these 
eggs  are sacred and never should be destroyed. But, then you say that it is  
wonderful that your cousin in fact murdered 7 sacred eggs before finally  
becoming pregnant - and pregnant is the operative word.

Many human  eggs are fertilized but very few result in pregnancy. Everything 
has to  occur exactly in the right way and at the right time for this to 
happen.  Millions of naturally fertilized eggs never develop into a human. 

If  you truly believed in your argument, then you would be disgusted with 
your  cousins 'murderous' behavior. Yet, you rejoice. You can't have it both  
ways.

Dan  


Jim  Lubin
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
_http://makoa.org/jim_ (http://makoa.org/jim)   
disAbility Resources: _http://www.makoa.org_ (http://www.makoa.org/)   




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Dave  _Visit My Home  Page_ (http://www.users.qwes

Re: [QUAD-L] Six Stem Cell Facts

2007-04-09 Thread Jim Lubin

No Dave I would not give my life to improve everyone else's life. 
People can live a long life with SCI and Parkensons. It may not 
always be pleasant but it is a life. If people can't handle it they 
can freely chose to take their own life. Everyone only gets one.


I would not want the cure for myself if came at the price of another 
person's life.


If I was giving my life for a cure for cancer or some fatal 
condition, that I might do. But give my life to improve others 
quality of life? No not me.


What would you do Dave?

At 12:41 PM 4/9/2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Jim,
Just out of curiosity, what if your body held the answer to cure SCI 
and Parkensons but in order to release that secret to the medical 
community, you had to die.   We couldn't wait until you died 
naturally, we must have you now or it won't work.  Would you 
volunteer your life for the other 6 billion of us in the world?

Dave

[QUAD-L] What if..........

 
We played that game as children and in college and we still play the same  
game as adults.  What if..
What ever the answer is... the person then inquires... then what  if.
And the ability to answer or address the question becomes more  difficult.  
We also do the same thing with those taboo subjects like  religion and 
politics.  What if..The chicken came before the egg??  Would the price of a 
bunch 
of bananas be more or less?  Then what  if..
Some of those questions can be answered by personal experience, while  others 
can be answered by knowledge and skill.  Then there are those what  if 
questions that can't be answered, based on lack of future knowledge.
Who knows for sure?
W
 
 
In a message dated 4/9/2007 3:52:03 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

What  would you do Dave?







** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Re: [QUAD-L] What if..........

2007-04-09 Thread andrea murray

Will W, 
  I have a test coming up on Thursda in my class at Purdue. What if I don't 
know the answers.Help!!!
  Wheelchair Warrior

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
We played that game as children and in college and we still play the 
same game as adults.  What if..
  What ever the answer is... the person then inquires... then what if.
  And the ability to answer or address the question becomes more difficult.  We 
also do the same thing with those taboo subjects like religion and politics.  
What if..The chicken came before the egg?? Would the price of a bunch of 
bananas be more or less?  Then what if..
  Some of those questions can be answered by personal experience, while others 
can be answered by knowledge and skill.  Then there are those what if questions 
that can't be answered, based on lack of future knowledge.
  Who knows for sure?
  W
   
   
  In a message dated 4/9/2007 3:52:03 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] writes:
  What would you do Dave?

  
   




-
  See what's free at AOL.com. 


 
-
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Re: [QUAD-L] sex

2007-04-09 Thread Bobbie299


 
Does anyone have sex with an indwelling catheter?

This sounds risky to me... am I the only one? It could be pulled out or cause 
infection... yikes!

 Oh yeah it can be pulled out, it happened to me. Larry pulled it out by 
accident then drove me to the ER for then to put a new one back in, then we 
went 
back to his place and finished the job. This was in 1973, I was a virgin and it 
was my senior prom night.
   Bobbie




** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Re: [QUAD-L] What if..........

 
You know the drill, Warrior.  Answer all the easy questions first,  then go 
back to the hard ones and give it your best guess.  But what  if??...
Good Luck
W
 
 
In a message dated 4/9/2007 4:22:42 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Will W, 
I have a test coming up on Thursda in  my class at Purdue. What if I don't 
know the answers.Help!!!
Wheelchair  Warrior









** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Re: [QUAD-L] Six Stem Cell Facts

2007-04-09 Thread Bobbie299


Would you volunteer your life for the other 6 billion of us in the world?
 Yep, in a heart beat. If I had THAT choice and not live another day as a 
quad?
   Bobbie




** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Re: [QUAD-L] sex

2007-04-09 Thread Quadius


Tried Viagra couple years ago, but one didn't seem to do much at all.  Tried
to a couple of days later, but discovered my blood pressure would be too low
to be able to get up out of bed and function later.
Therefore, my caveat is to make sure you monitor your BP.
Quadius

On 4/9/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


  Does anyone have sex with an indwelling catheter?

This sounds risky to me... am I the only one? It could be pulled out or
cause infection... yikes!

 *Oh yeah it can be pulled out, it happened to me. Larry pulled it out by
accident then drove me to the ER for then to put a new one back in, then we
went back to his place and finished the job. This was in 1973, I was a
virgin and it was my senior prom night.*
*   Bobbie*



 --
See what's free at AOL.com .

Re: [QUAD-L] sex

 
In a message dated 4/9/2007 4:54:43 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Oh yeah it can be pulled out, it happened to me. Larry  pulled it out by 
accident then drove me to the ER for then to put a new one  back in, then we 
went 
back to his place and finished the job. This was in  1973, I was a virgin and 
it was my senior prom night. 
   Bobbie



"finished the job."
 
Did you guys wax and polish the car too ???  What a way to describe an  event 
of the century or 
a "Grand Opening."   (lol)
W



** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

[QUAD-L] Finding help

2007-04-09 Thread Debbie Hamilton

Hi Everyone!  Thanks for your advice about traveling with a power chair, I'm 
going to LA to be with my sister for a month and to check out a rehab center 
there called dynamics.  I also have a question about traveling in general.  All 
I have at home is myself, my husband and my 15 year old boy.  We have a motor 
home and hope to use that to travel in but neither of those two can do my bowel 
program or my shower.  I do my bowel program every other day, do you arrange to 
have someone do that when you get to where you're going?  Or should I try to do 
my bowel program less often?  How do you travel and find help other than 
family?  Thanks Debbie

C4/April 2005


 
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Re: [QUAD-L] Finding help

 
In a message dated 4/9/2007 6:03:18 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Hi  Everyone!  Thanks for your advice about traveling with a power chair, I'm 
 going to LA to be with my sister for a month and to check out a rehab center 
 there called dynamics.  I also have a question about traveling in  general.  
All I have at home is myself, my husband and my 15 year old  boy.  We have a 
motor home and hope to use that to travel in but neither  of those two can do 
my bowel program or my shower.  I do my bowel program  every other day, do you 
arrange to have someone do that when you get to where  you're going?  Or 
should I try to do my bowel program less often?   How do you travel and find 
help 
other than family?  Thanks  Debbie

C4/April 2005



Its important that you don't change your bowel program unless it is to  
improve it.  Who does your bowel program and are they willing to travel  with 
you 
until you get to your location?  You might also make contact with  Dynamics and 
see if they are willing to assist you in your travels.   Changes in bowel 
programs can affect your health and general welfare.  Hope  that you achieve 
your 
goals at Dynamics!
W



** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Re: [QUAD-L] Quad Darryl Stingley Dies at 55

Can the coronor be certain he didn't die from a restricted spinal function? 
Does the Coronor know what quadriplegia is? The coronor sounds like the woman 
that made jerry seinfelds auto reservations.

john

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; quad-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] Quad Darryl Stingley Dies at 55

An autopsy revealed bronchial pneumonia, quadriplegia, spinal-cord injury and 
coronary atherosclerosis as contributing factors, according to the Cook County 
medical examiner's office.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
In a message dated 4/6/2007 9:40:19 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] writes:
When I read the report, I was a little shocked to read that one of the 
contributing causes to his death was quadriplegia.  I probably shouldn't have 
been, but for some reason I don't see myself is suffering from a quadriplegia.  
I probably view myself as a well functioning quadriplegic.  At least I think 
so. 
Quadius

I haven't seen the cause, but I knew he had a cold or the flu.
W

See what's free at AOL.com. 

AOL now offers free email to everyone.  Find out more about what's free from 
AOL at AOL.com.

Re: [QUAD-L] Six Stem Cell Facts

Do you realize if we study embryonic stem cells people are going to get morally 
confused. Moral confusion leads to abortions. Abortions lead to teen sex. Teen 
sex leads to embryonic stem cell research! How can you ignore these facts? 
Masturbation is behind all this. If we had stopped doctors from grave robbing 
we wouldn't have these problems. Then doctors invented homogenation and 
pastuerazation. Then penacillin and the worlds evils are being whittled away. 
Its just wrong!  We are in wheelchairs to punish our souls?!
 
john
 
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: quad-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 9:15 PM
Subject: [QUAD-L] Six Stem Cell Facts


SIX STEM CELL FACTS
The public discussion of human embryo research has too often lacked 
intellectual honesty, which has only compounded the confusion of an issue of 
great scientific and moral complexity, say Robert P. George professor of 
jurisprudence at Princeton University and a member of the President's Council 
on Bioethics and Rev. Thomas V. Berg, executive director of the Westchester 
Institute for Ethics and the Human Person.

Consequently, there are certain facts on which people on either side of the 
moral debate should be able to agree, say George and Berg.  For example: 
There is no "ban" on human embryonic stem cell (ESC) research in the United 
States; the federal government has funded such research to the tune of $130 
million dollars since 2001, and the United States continues to be the 
international leader in the field. 
We are a long way away from therapies derived from embryonic stem cells; many 
leading stem cell researchers have echoed the fact that there may be no 
breakthrough any time soon. 
Standard embryology texts insist that from the zygote (single-cell embryo) 
stage forward there exists a new living member of the species homo sapiens that 
has the active potential to develop by an internally directed process towards 
maturity. 

Also: 
There are non-controversial alternatives worth exploring; such as the 
reprogramming of ordinary somatic (body) cells, the derivation of stem cells 
from amniotic fluid, and (assuming that it can be shown that the product is not 
an embryo), altered nuclear transfer. 
Concerns about embryo destruction are not only religious; but merely a healthy 
respect for the human capacity for doing evil in pursuit of the good. 
The search for cures is not the only motive behind ESC research,; many 
scientists are interested only in enhancing basic scientific knowledge of such 
things as cell signaling, tissue growth and early human development. 

Source: Robert P. George and Thomas V. Berg, "Six Stem Cell Facts," Wall Street 
Journal, March 14, 2007.

For text:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB117384191108736444.html 

AOL now offers free email to everyone.  Find out more about what's free from 
AOL at AOL.com.

Re: [QUAD-L] Six Stem Cell Facts

2007-04-09 Thread Dan

LMAO! Kudos!!

Dan

At 07:44 PM 4/9/2007 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said something that elicited my 
response:
  
>Do you realize if we study embryonic stem cells people are going to get 
>morally confused. Moral confusion leads to abortions. Abortions lead to teen 
>sex. Teen sex leads to embryonic stem cell research! How can you ignore these 
>facts? Masturbation is behind all this. If we had stopped doctors from grave 
>robbing we wouldn't have these problems. Then doctors invented homogenation 
>and pastuerazation. Then penacillin and the worlds evils are being whittled 
>away. Its just wrong!  We are in wheelchairs to punish our souls?!
> 
>john
> 
> 
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: quad-list@eskimo.com
>Sent: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 9:15 PM
>Subject: [QUAD-L] Six Stem Cell Facts
>
>
>
>SIX STEM CELL FACTS
>
>
>
>The public discussion of human embryo research has too often lacked 
>intellectual honesty, which has only compounded the confusion of an issue of 
>great scientific and moral complexity, say Robert P. George professor of 
>jurisprudence at Princeton University and a member of the President's Council 
>on Bioethics and Rev. Thomas V. Berg, executive director of the Westchester 
>Institute for Ethics and the Human Person.
>
>Consequently, there are certain facts on which people on either side of the 
>moral debate should be able to agree, say George and Berg.  For example: 
>* There is no "ban" on human embryonic stem cell (ESC) research in the 
> United States; the federal government has funded such research to the tune of 
> $130 million dollars since 2001, and the United States continues to be the 
> international leader in the field. 
>* We are a long way away from therapies derived from embryonic stem cells; 
> many leading stem cell researchers have echoed the fact that there may be no 
> breakthrough any time soon. 
>* Standard embryology texts insist that from the zygote (single-cell 
> embryo) stage forward there exists a new living member of the species homo 
> sapiens that has the active potential to develop by an internally directed 
> process towards maturity. 
>
>
>Also: 
>* There are non-controversial alternatives worth exploring; such as the 
> reprogramming of ordinary somatic (body) cells, the derivation of stem cells 
> from amniotic fluid, and (assuming that it can be shown that the product is 
> not an embryo), altered nuclear transfer.  
>* Concerns about embryo destruction are not only religious; but merely a 
> healthy respect for the human capacity for doing evil in pursuit of the good. 
>* The search for cures is not the only motive behind ESC research,; many 
> scientists are interested only in enhancing basic scientific knowledge of 
> such things as cell signaling, tissue growth and early human development. 
>
>
>Source: Robert P. George and Thomas V. Berg, "Six Stem Cell Facts," Wall 
>Street Journal, March 14, 2007.
>
>For text:
>
>http://online.wsj.com/article/SB117384191108736444.html
> 
>
>
>--
>AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from 
>AOL at AOL.com.

Re: [QUAD-L] Finding help

2007-04-09 Thread Paul Jacobson

Hi Debbie,

I use Craig's List and hire someone in the area I am traveling to.

Thanks,
Paul
  - Original Message - 
  From: Debbie Hamilton 
  To: quad Posting 
  Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 4:02 PM
  Subject: [QUAD-L] Finding help

  Hi Everyone!  Thanks for your advice about traveling with a power chair, I'm 
going to LA to be with my sister for a month and to check out a rehab center 
there called dynamics.  I also have a question about traveling in general.  All 
I have at home is myself, my husband and my 15 year old boy.  We have a motor 
home and hope to use that to travel in but neither of those two can do my bowel 
program or my shower.  I do my bowel program every other day, do you arrange to 
have someone do that when you get to where you're going?  Or should I try to do 
my bowel program less often?  How do you travel and find help other than 
family?  Thanks Debbie

  C4/April 2005

--
  Need Mail bonding?
  Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.

Re: [QUAD-L] Finding help

2007-04-09 Thread Dan T

I have extended the time between bowel programs up to three and four days but 
if you've never tried this before I don't think I would try it out on the road. 
 Naturally, he should probably reduce your regular consumption if you try this. 
 Good luck... Dan T.

Paul Jacobson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  Hi Debbie,
   
  I use Craig's List and hire someone in the area I am traveling to.
   
  Thanks,
  Paul
- Original Message - 
  From: Debbie Hamilton 
  To: quad Posting 
  Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 4:02 PM
  Subject: [QUAD-L] Finding help
  

Hi Everyone!  Thanks for your advice about traveling with a power chair, I'm 
going to LA to be with my sister for a month and to check out a rehab center 
there called dynamics.  I also have a question about traveling in general.  All 
I have at home is myself, my husband and my 15 year old boy.  We have a motor 
home and hope to use that to travel in but neither of those two can do my bowel 
program or my shower.  I do my bowel program every other day, do you arrange to 
have someone do that when you get to where you're going?  Or should I try to do 
my bowel program less often?  How do you travel and find help other than 
family?  Thanks Debbie

C4/April 2005


-
  Need Mail bonding?
Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.

[QUAD-L] Need Soulmate for 46 YO Female

2007-04-09 Thread Sherry Murphy

Hi,

I am trying to find a soul mate for a girlfriend of mine.. She is 46 and is a 
Quadriplegic.. She was in a car accident in Sept 2003.   She is in a nursing 
home of all places! in California... I just thought there might be a gentleman 
out there who is in need of a soul mate.. in the same condition?  
Does anyone know of any sites or people to try and contact...

Thank You For your time
Tami

Re: [QUAD-L] Six Stem Cell Facts

Your wrong about organ  donors always being dead. Often, organ donors are kept 
on life support until their organs can be harvested in a timely fashion so that 
the most people will benefit. 
I could believe that all life is a miracle, but after meeting quite a few 
lawyers, politicians and religious leaders, I'm quite certain that life is not 
miraculous and very probably a mistake.
Most children and mothers survive birth because now we believe in germs. Did 
god make germs? Do religions believe in germs? Should a doctor be allowed to 
study a human body while in med school. Ok. Not your doctor. 
If penicillin (which was denounced by many religions) be with held from people 
in those religions? It cures syphilis and we all know that syphilis was a curse 
from god on people that don't have sex the way god wants them, too. I do 
believe Jerry Falwell shouldn't have sex and just going by his proportions, I 
don't think he could have "normal sex". I think he is a masturbator and should 
be stoned until he finds a new drug. Just like muslim terrorists are all gay. 
Only a gay guy would want to spend eternity listening to 72 virgins babble 
incesantly.
 
john  
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; quad-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 10:50 PM
Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] Six Stem Cell Facts


Glad to see you partly agree with me Dan. (yes I realize you were being 
sarcastic) I don't agree with the part about having elaborate funerals and 
burying them, but yes we must not destroy unused fertilized eggs created for 
IVF treatments.

Using unused embryos is not the same as organ donation because organ donor are 
dead before organs are harvested. Removing stem cells from an embryo kills the 
embryo. 

I've listened to Dr Kerr from Johns Hopkins talk a few times about his 
research. http://www.hopkinsneuro.org/tm/
watch his presentation at the 2006 symposium here 
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2767307331641285489&hl=en 
he mentioned that they want to use the embryos created for IVF that are 
deformed (something to that effect) and can not be used for in-vitro treatment. 
Now I can go along with using those that could not be used to result in a 
pregnancy. 

I agree with S. 30: A bill to intensify research to derive human pluripotent 
stem cell lines


At 06:35 PM 4/7/2007, Dan wrote:

Yes, yes, yes! We must not destroy all those useless fertilized eggs. We should 
let them perish on their own and then we should have an elaborate funeral and 
bury them in a tiny little plot of earth. AND we must not allow abortion at ANY 
cost. Thank you Jesus! Hallelujah! 

Dan, who always gives great credence to anything authored by a reverend. 

At 06:15 PM 4/7/2007 -0700, Jim Lubin said something that elicited my response:
  




SIX STEM CELL FACTS



There are non-controversial alternatives worth exploring; such as the 
reprogramming of ordinary somatic (body) cells, the derivation of stem cells 
from amniotic fluid, and (assuming that it can be shown that the product is not 
an embryo), altered nuclear transfer. 
Concerns about embryo destruction are not only religious; but merely a healthy 
respect for the human capacity for doing evil in pursuit of the good. 
The search for cures is not the only motive behind ESC research,; many 
scientists are interested only in enhancing basic scientific knowledge of such 
things as cell signaling, tissue growth and early human development. 


Source: Robert P. George and Thomas V. Berg, "Six Stem Cell Facts," Wall Street 
Journal, March 14, 2007.

For text:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB117384191108736444.html 

AOL now offers free email to everyone.  Find out more about what's free from 
AOL at AOL.com.

Re: [QUAD-L] Six Stem Cell Facts

If human life is so sacred then why does the gov't spend trillions of dollars 
making sure we can destroy more humans than any other country on earth. Why do 
so many Americans want the death penalty? Don't they know human life is sacred? 
Is oral sex half cannabalism?If it is ok to kill people that kill to stop the 
killing of others, why haven't we killed G. W. Bush?
 
john
 
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: quad-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 11:00 PM
Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] Six Stem Cell Facts


Human life is sacred and an embryo is the initial stage of life.  I would like 
to be up and around and Independent but not at the sacrifice of another human 
life.  Dan T.

Dan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
Yes, yes, yes! We must not destroy all those useless fertilized eggs. We should 
let them perish on their own and then we should have an elaborate funeral and 
bury them in a tiny little plot of earth. AND we must not allow abortion at ANY 
cost. Thank you Jesus! Hallelujah! 

Dan, who always gives great credence to anything authored by a reverend. 

At 06:15 PM 4/7/2007 -0700, Jim Lubin said something that elicited my response:
  


SIX STEM CELL FACTS


The public discussion of human embryo research has too often lacked 
intellectual honesty, which has only compounded the confusion of an issue of 
great scientific and moral complexity, say Robert P. George professor of 
jurisprudence at Princeton University and a member of the President's Council 
on Bioethics and Rev. Thomas V. Berg, executive director of the Westchester 
Institute for Ethics and the Human Person.

Consequently, there are certain facts on which people on either side of the 
moral debate should be able to agree, say George and Berg.  For example: 
There is no "ban" on human embryonic stem cell (ESC) research in the United 
States; the federal government has funded such research to the tune of $130 
million dollars since 2001, and the United States continues to be the 
international leader in the field. 
We are a long way away from therapies derived from embryonic stem cells; many 
leading stem cell researchers have echoed the fact that there may be no 
breakthrough any time soon. 
Standard embryology texts insist that from the zygote (single-cell embryo) 
stage forward there exists a new living member of the species homo sapiens that 
has the active potential to develop by an internally directed process towards 
maturity. 


Also: 
There are non-controversial alternatives worth exploring; such as the 
reprogramming of ordinary somatic (body) cells, the derivation of stem cells 
from amniotic fluid, and (assuming that it can be shown that the product is not 
an embryo), altered nuclear transfer. 
Concerns about embryo destruction are not only religious; but merely a healthy 
respect for the human capacity for doing evil in pursuit of the good. 
The search for cures is not the only motive behind ESC research,; many 
scientists are interested only in enhancing basic scientific knowledge of such 
things as cell signaling, tissue growth and early human development. 


Source: Robert P. George and Thomas V. Berg, "Six Stem Cell Facts," Wall Street 
Journal, March 14, 2007.

For text:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB117384191108736444.html 

AOL now offers free email to everyone.  Find out more about what's free from 
AOL at AOL.com.

Re: [QUAD-L] Sex and Quad

I thout i had to wait 45 minutes because of my hand. Never tried viagra...a 
partner sounds kinda kinky too. 

john

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; quad-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 12:30 AM
Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] Sex and Quad

Wait..wait...waitRon...you need a partner??

Well that answers a lot of questions I've been having.

Paul
Confused in California
- Original Message - 
From: RONALD L PRACHT 
To: quad-list@eskimo.com 
Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 7:40 PM
Subject: [QUAD-L] Sex and Quad

Hey peeps,

I have been using viagra with decent success. You need to take it like 45 
minutes b4 the sexual encounter. Dont eat a big meal or drink 6 beers b4 hand , 
 it wont allow the drug to work very well. I take the 50 mg version, but you 
can go up to as much as 100mg. I straight cathe and I always cathe b4 and after 
the encounter. 

I get a decent hard on with viagra, but its not like the old days. I might need 
to try the 100mg. I wonder about cialis?? They say with that you can choose 
when to have the encounter within a 24 hour period.

If you have an understanding partner it will help everything go smoothly 
without worry and anxiety. I tried bringing a girl back home that had no clue 
about spinal injury. I pulled it off but was a lil nervous I wouldnt perform to 
her satisfaction. But I guess who cares as long as you try.

ron c7

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Re: [QUAD-L] Sex and Quad

I'm not offended..but I'm not paul either. I'm lousey at sex but I have a 
creative mind. I find most women are attracted to me by money. Sometimes it is 
strange, but so is sex with a guy that can't move.
 
john 
ps, enjoy it before they bust you for mining stem cells
 
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: quad-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 12:36 AM
Subject: [QUAD-L] Sex and Quad


Paul,
I didnt mean to offend you. I have had understanding women, and women that are 
from the bar. Being paralyzed makes sex a lil more complicated. It helps if you 
know your partner well and understands whats involved.
 
 
ronc7.in the stl

AOL now offers free email to everyone.  Find out more about what's free from 
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Re: [QUAD-L] Six Stem Cell Facts

I  think the excess eggs should be served at communion. Like the caviar of 
Christ or something. Maybe add a caudacill from Mary 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: quad-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] Six Stem Cell Facts

So what do you do with the thousands of excess fertilized eggs that result from 
in vitro fertilization? Store them forever? Ban the process? These excess eggs 
are thrown into the garbage everyday yet I don't hear anyone complaining. So 
what's your answer.

Dan 

At 07:50 PM 4/7/2007 -0700, Jim Lubin said something that elicited my response:

Glad to see you partly agree with me Dan. (yes I realize you were being 
sarcastic) I don't agree with the part about having elaborate funerals and 
burying them, but yes we must not destroy unused fertilized eggs created for 
IVF treatments.

Using unused embryos is not the same as organ donation because organ donor are 
dead before organs are harvested. Removing stem cells from an embryo kills the 
embryo. 

I've listened to Dr Kerr from Johns Hopkins talk a few times about his 
research. http://www.hopkinsneuro.org/tm/
watch his presentation at the 2006 symposium here 
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2767307331641285489&hl=en 
he mentioned that they want to use the embryos created for IVF that are 
deformed (something to that effect) and can not be used for in-vitro treatment. 
Now I can go along with using those that could not be used to result in a 
pregnancy. 

I agree with S. 30: A bill to intensify research to derive human pluripotent 
stem cell lines

At 06:35 PM 4/7/2007, Dan wrote:

Yes, yes, yes! We must not destroy all those useless fertilized eggs. We should 
let them perish on their own and then we should have an elaborate funeral and 
bury them in a tiny little plot of earth. AND we must not allow abortion at ANY 
cost. Thank you Jesus! Hallelujah! 

Dan, who always gives great credence to anything authored by a reverend. 

At 06:15 PM 4/7/2007 -0700, Jim Lubin said something that elicited my response:

SIX STEM CELL FACTS

There are non-controversial alternatives worth exploring; such as the 
reprogramming of ordinary somatic (body) cells, the derivation of stem cells 
from amniotic fluid, and (assuming that it can be shown that the product is not 
an embryo), altered nuclear transfer. 
Concerns about embryo destruction are not only religious; but merely a healthy 
respect for the human capacity for doing evil in pursuit of the good. 
The search for cures is not the only motive behind ESC research,; many 
scientists are interested only in enhancing basic scientific knowledge of such 
things as cell signaling, tissue growth and early human development. 

Source: Robert P. George and Thomas V. Berg, "Six Stem Cell Facts," Wall Street 
Journal, March 14, 2007.

For text:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB117384191108736444.html 

AOL now offers free email to everyone.  Find out more about what's free from 
AOL at AOL.com.

Re: [QUAD-L] Six Stem Cell Facts

2007-04-09 Thread Dan T

John, you're getting offensive... Dan T.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:I  think the excess eggs should be served at 
communion. Like the caviar of Christ or something. Maybe add a caudacill from 
Mary

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: quad-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] Six Stem Cell Facts

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#f4f4f4 no-repeat center center; BORDER-LEFT: #dadad6 1px solid; WIDTH: 275px; 
BORDER-BOTTOM: #dadad6 1px solid; HEIGHT: 206px  }  So what do you do with 
the thousands of excess fertilized eggs that result from in vitro fertilization?
 Store them forever? Ban the process? These excess eggs are thrown into the 
garbage everyday yet I don't hear anyone complaining. So what's your answer.

Dan 

At 07:50 PM 4/7/2007 -0700, Jim Lubin said something that elicited my response:

  Glad to see you partly agree with me Dan. (yes I realize you were being 
sarcastic) I don't agree with the part about having elaborate funerals and 
burying them, but yes we must not destroy unused fertilized eggs created for 
IVF treatments.

Using unused embryos is not the same as organ donation because organ donor are 
dead before organs are harvested. Removing stem cells from an embryo kills the 
embryo. 

I've listened to Dr Kerr from Johns Hopkins talk a few times about his 
research. http://www.hopkinsneuro.org/tm/
watch his presentation at the 2006 symposium here 
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2767307331641285489&hl=en 
he mentioned that they want to use the embryos created for IVF that are 
deformed (something to that effect) and can not be used for in-vitro treatment. 
Now I can go along with using those that could not be used to result in a 
pregnancy. 

I agree with S. 30: A bill to intensify research to derive human pluripotent 
stem cell lines

At 06:35 PM 4/7/2007, Dan wrote:
  Yes, yes, yes! We must not destroy all those useless fertilized eggs. We 
should let them perish on their own and then we should have an elaborate 
funeral and bury them in a tiny little plot of earth. AND we must not allow 
abortion at ANY cost. Thank you Jesus! Hallelujah! 

Dan, who always gives great credence to anything authored by a reverend. 

At 06:15 PM 4/7/2007 -0700, Jim Lubin said something that elicited my response:

  SIX STEM CELL FACTS

   There are non-controversial alternatives worth exploring; such as the 
reprogramming of ordinary somatic (body) cells, the derivation of stem cells 
from amniotic fluid, and (assuming that it can be shown that the product is not 
an embryo), altered nuclear transfer.   
   Concerns about embryo destruction are not only religious; but merely a 
healthy respect for the human capacity for doing evil in pursuit of the good.   
   The search for cures is not the only motive behind ESC research,; many 
scientists are interested only in enhancing basic scientific knowledge of such 
things as cell signaling, tissue growth and early human development. 

Source: Robert P. George and Thomas V. Berg, "Six Stem Cell Facts," Wall Street 
Journal, March 14, 2007.

For text:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB117384191108736444.html 

-
  AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out

Re: [QUAD-L] Six Stem Cell Facts

Kidding?? We don't need to kid. I have neighbors that can't pay bills but go to 
every execution to protest against the people that think the death penalty is 
wrong. They protest abortions but not at the IVF clinic. They think life is a 
miracle because they don't have children. (I'm not telling them babies are a 
result of sex) That stuff is dirty and after meeting them, I believe them 
having sex would be WRONG on levels of hell nobody ever dreamed of. They own 
guns incase they need to send someone to hell or meet a commie. nuff said..
 
john
 
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; quad-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] Six Stem Cell Facts


I hope you're kidding.

Dan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
Yes, yes, yes! We must not destroy all those useless fertilized eggs. We should 
let them perish on their own and then we should have an elaborate funeral and 
bury them in a tiny little plot of earth. AND we must not allow abortion at ANY 
cost. Thank you Jesus! Hallelujah! 

Dan, who always gives great credence to anything authored by a reverend. 

At 06:15 PM 4/7/2007 -0700, Jim Lubin said something that elicited my response:
  


SIX STEM CELL FACTS


The public discussion of human embryo research has too often lacked 
intellectual honesty, which has only compounded the confusion of an issue of 
great scientific and moral complexity, say Robert P. George professor of 
jurisprudence at Princeton University and a member of the President's Council 
on Bioethics and Rev. Thomas V. Berg, executive director of the Westchester 
Institute for Ethics and the Human Person.

Consequently, there are certain facts on which people on either side of the 
moral debate should be able to agree, say George and Berg.  For example: 
There is no "ban" on human embryonic stem cell (ESC) research in the United 
States; the federal government has funded such research to the tune of $130 
million dollars since 2001, and the United States continues to be the 
international leader in the field. 
We are a long way away from therapies derived from embryonic stem cells; many 
leading stem cell researchers have echoed the fact that there may be no 
breakthrough any time soon. 
Standard embryology texts insist that from the zygote (single-cell embryo) 
stage forward there exists a new living member of the species homo sapiens that 
has the active potential to develop by an internally directed process towards 
maturity. 


Also: 
There are non-controversial alternatives worth exploring; such as the 
reprogramming of ordinary somatic (body) cells, the derivation of stem cells 
from amniotic fluid, and (assuming that it can be shown that the product is not 
an embryo), altered nuclear transfer. 
Concerns about embryo destruction are not only religious; but merely a healthy 
respect for the human capacity for doing evil in pursuit of the good. 
The search for cures is not the only motive behind ESC research,; many 
scientists are interested only in enhancing basic scientific knowledge of such 
things as cell signaling, tissue growth and early human development. 


Source: Robert P. George and Thomas V. Berg, "Six Stem Cell Facts," Wall Street 
Journal, March 14, 2007.

For text:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB117384191108736444.html 





Be a PS3 game guru.
Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. 

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Re: [QUAD-L] sex

I use to have an indwelling and it was ok as long as she didn't like..sit n 
spin. It gets all tangled and messy and, you might wanna use a condom, bring 
some other toys? Condoms are hard to keep on if she uses the love oil first, 
so, just have fun!If shes willin to get in bed with you, stop worrying! Get 
your rubber ducky and have a good time.
 
john
 
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: quad-list@eskimo.com
Cc: quad-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] sex




On Apr 8, 2007, at 12:23 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


many have sex w/ a foley


i can see how many women might but it seems completely different for a guy... 
= 

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Re: [QUAD-L] Six Stem Cell Facts

Trust me jim, they took thousands of eggs and fertilized a hundred at least. 
The ones they show on tv are always so perfect. Most times the egg gets messed 
up and is useless. Each time she tried, I guarentee they injected between 6 and 
20 they thought had a good chance. If they only had to prep one egg the price 
would drop a lot. If they aren't paying for storage then the other embryos are 
probably in a local sewer.
 
john
 
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; quad-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 2:01 PM
Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] Six Stem Cell Facts


I am against the whole IVF process that creates excess embryos to begin with. 

The frozen embryos can continued to be stored indefinitely. What's wrong with 
that? Are you concerned about the energy being used to keep them frozen? The 
embryos that are unfrozen eventually die a natural death, just as every other 
living thing, then cremated. That is quite different then killing it by 
removing stem cells to use in someone else. Even organ donors are declared dead 
by some standards before there organs are removed. # S.5—Stem Cell Research 
Enhancement Act of 2007 doesn't even do that; it just states that the embryos 
were in excess of the clinical need of the individuals seeking such treatment. 
and would never be implanted in a woman. 

I want my spinal cord repaired so I can breathe without a ventilator and 
possibly move independently, but I don't want it so badly that I will end 
another human life just for the possible improve my own life. I don't 
understand how those wanting to use stem cells from embryos can't comprehend 
that. An embryo is a human life, and put into the right environment, will 
continue to develop and grow. I'm not so self centered that improving my life 
should come at the cost of another life.

There are other sources of pluripotent stem cells, sources such as umbilical 
chords and amniotic fluid. There is also somatic cell nuclear transfer 
(therapeutic cloning) which I don't have a problem with.

On a side note, my cousin just gave birth to a son last week. He was the result 
of IVF from her egg and her husband's sperm. They had 8 viable embryos. The 
first 7 she did not carry full term. I'm happy for them that the last one she 
was able to carry to term and mom and son are doing fine.

Jim

At 08:04 AM 4/8/2007, Dan wrote:

So what do you do with the thousands of excess fertilized eggs that result from 
in vitro fertilization? Store them forever? Ban the process? These excess eggs 
are thrown into the garbage everyday yet I don't hear anyone complaining. So 
what's your answer.

Dan 


At 07:50 PM 4/7/2007 -0700, Jim Lubin said something that elicited my response:
  

Glad to see you partly agree with me Dan. (yes I realize you were being 
sarcastic) I don't agree with the part about having elaborate funerals and 
burying them, but yes we must not destroy unused fertilized eggs created for 
IVF treatments.

Using unused embryos is not the same as organ donation because organ donor are 
dead before organs are harvested. Removing stem cells from an embryo kills the 
embryo. 

I've listened to Dr Kerr from Johns Hopkins talk a few times about his 
research. http://www.hopkinsneuro.org/tm/
watch his presentation at the 2006 symposium here 
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2767307331641285489&hl=en 
he mentioned that they want to use the embryos created for IVF that are 
deformed (something to that effect) and can not be used for in-vitro treatment. 
Now I can go along with using those that could not be used to result in a 
pregnancy. 

I agree with S. 30: A bill to intensify research to derive human pluripotent 
stem cell lines


At 06:35 PM 4/7/2007, Dan wrote:

Yes, yes, yes! We must not destroy all those useless fertilized eggs. We should 
let them perish on their own and then we should have an elaborate funeral and 
bury them in a tiny little plot of earth. AND we must not allow abortion at ANY 
cost. Thank you Jesus! Hallelujah! 

Dan, who always gives great credence to anything authored by a reverend. 

At 06:15 PM 4/7/2007 -0700, Jim Lubin said something that elicited my response:
  






SIX STEM CELL FACTS





There are non-controversial alternatives worth exploring; such as the 
reprogramming of ordinary somatic (body) cells, the derivation of stem cells 
from amniotic fluid, and (assuming that it can be shown that the product is not 
an embryo), altered nuclear transfer. 
Concerns about embryo destruction are not only religious; but merely a healthy 
respect for the human capacity for doing evil in pursuit of the good. 
The search for cures is not the only motive behind ESC research,; many 
scientists are interested only in enhancing basic scientific knowledge of such 
things as cell signaling, tissue growth and early human development. 



Source: Robert P. George and Thomas V. Berg, "Six Stem Cell Facts," Wall Street 
Journal, March 14, 2007.

For text:

http://on

Re: [QUAD-L] life begins

I believe life begins the moment you can sight it in a 4 power rifle scope. 
How can you tell a sperm and an egg joined? 
Why are men who father children called dads by lawyers?
Why are women that give birth called mom's by lawyers?
Are babies that develope from IVF damned by god?
Why do people have to interpret the bible after it has been rewritten in 
english? Was it done wrong? Does god hate people in wheelchairs? Does god hate 
gays? If God hates rich people then why do Americans keep electing them. I 
think everyone just picks the part of religion they like and ignores the rest. 
If god even gave mankind a second thought he wouldn't have allowed nuclear 
bombs to work. 
The real problem with stem cell research is if it is allowed then any woman 
that wants IVF will get it paid for by the gov't. pretty soon men are not 
needed. Most men are bad fathers and woman can do any thing men can when it 
comes to work. A 13yld boy with a cup could provide enough sperm for the next 
20 years. 
Stem cell research is the next step toward a society that doesn't need men! 
Lets face it guys, I'm a quad and women say I'm more fun than most guys. We are 
being phased out. Its all a big plot by rosie odonnell so oprah can run the 
world.
 
john  
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Quad-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] Six Stem Cell Facts


Angie, 
I do respect your opinion, even if I don't agree with it. You at least state 
that you define "a life" as having a consciousness. I am not aware if an 8 
month old fetus has a consciousness or not but I would consider that stage of 
development a life. That is why I define a human life from the point of 
conception, joining of a egg and sperm.

You wonder why you shouldn't have the option to use embryos for research just 
because you don't consider it a life? You don't see a problem with the premise 
of your question? You don't consider it a life so why should anyone prevent you 
from taking it to better your life. 

At 11:07 AM 4/8/2007, Angie Novak wrote:

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, of course.  But look at some of the 
people around, can we really say that all human life is precious?  I can't.  
There are just some people living their lives out there walking around and 
breathing that don't deserve to be.  However, these are people, not just 50-150 
cells that don't have a consciousness, what I consider life.  And these 50-150 
cells are just going to be destroyed anyway.  Why not let them serve a purpose.

Shouldn't those of us who want a cure to be found, including using embryonic 
stem cell research, be able to have that option?  If you don't want to be 
treated, potentially cured and able-bodied again someday from what this 
research finds, just don't accept that treatment.  Stay trapped in your body if 
you'd like.  But don't take that chance for living again, really living, away 
from those of us who want a shot at it.  I would gladly donate my eggs to be 
fertilized via in vitro, solely for the purpose of being used for embryonic 
stem cell research.

CURE not care-
Angie Novak

Dan T <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

Human life is sacred and an embryo is the initial stage of life.  I would like 
to be up and around and Independent but not at the sacrifice of another human 
life.  Dan T.


Dan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

Yes, yes, yes! We must not destroy all those useless fertilized eggs. We should 
let them perish on their own and then we should have an elaborate funeral and 
bury them in a tiny little plot of earth. AND we must not allow abortion at ANY 
cost. Thank you Jesus! Hallelujah! 


Dan, who always gives great credence to anything authored by a reverend. 


At 06:15 PM 4/7/2007 -0700, Jim Lubin said something that elicited my response:

  




SIX STEM CELL FACTS





The public discussion of human embryo research has too often lacked 
intellectual honesty, which has only compounded the confusion of an issue of 
great scientific and moral complexity, say Robert P. George professor of 
jurisprudence at Princeton University and a member of the President's Council 
on Bioethics and Rev. Thomas V. Berg, executive director of the Westchester 
Institute for Ethics and the Human Person.


Consequently, there are certain facts on which people on either side of the 
moral debate should be able to agree, say George and Berg.  For example: 
There is no "ban" on human embryonic stem cell (ESC) research in the United 
States; the federal government has funded such research to the tune of $130 
million dollars since 2001, and the United States continues to be the 
international leader in the field. 
We are a long way away from therapies derived from embryonic stem cells; many 
leading stem cell researchers have echoed the fact that there may be no 
breakthrough any time soon. 
Standard embryology texts insist that from the zygote (single-cell embryo) 
stage forward there exists a new li

Re: [QUAD-L] sins...pfffffffft

If you ever play russian roulette, risking a life and taking a chance is 
exactly the same thing as willfully terminating a life. You can't equate IVF 
with shooting craps. Everyone wants their sin to be a little sin. I've heard of 
folks that destroyed hundreds of embryos "trying". They don't want to adopt now 
that everyone can find birth parents, (thank you phill donahue, oprah and sally 
jesse for making american kids unadoptable)nobody wants to do anything about 
the millions of kids in south and central America. Nobody wants to be bothered 
with kids that aren't theirs. We are all part of an unforgivable sin that has 
nothing to do with unborn children. People spend millions on IVF while millions 
of children die of neglect all over the world. People are starving on our 
border and we are afraid they might get in. We just built 4 stealth bombers for 
100 billion dollars. We have spent a trillion dollars in Iraq killing people 
and we pretend we are worried that using an embryo for!
  its cells is a "sin". Compared to what we allow to happen in this world, its 
just a teensy weensy lil sin. If your not giving every spare cent to poor 
children in America, then your moral sins are too great to even give stem cells 
a second thought.
 
john
 
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; quad-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 10:54 PM
Subject: RE: [QUAD-L] Six Stem Cell Facts


At 05:50 PM 4/8/2007, Dan wrote:

At 05:29 PM 4/8/2007 -0700, Jim Lubin said something that elicited my response:
  

Risking a life and taking a chance is not the same as willfully terminating a 
life. 

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Re: [QUAD-L] Six Stem Cell Facts