Re: [qubes-users] Re: desktop recommendations?

[Drew White]

On Saturday, 7 April 2018 22:26:18 UTC+10, brenda...@gmail.com  wrote:
> On Friday, April 6, 2018 at 9:27:11 PM UTC-4, Drew White wrote:
> > On Saturday, 7 April 2018 10:41:13 UTC+10, Thierry Laurion  wrote:
> > > You seem to have misunderstood. Ivy bridge and beyond on the Intel side 
> > > will provide you with SLAT capabilities, IOMMU and virtualization, which 
> > > is all that is required.  A x230 with 16gb ram and a i5 or i7 will 
> > > provide you akk the power needed if you have an sad drive.
> > 
> > I only went on what I was told. I have Ivy Bridge, and they don't have SLAT.
> 
> Which CPU in particular? Did you look it up at the following link?
>   https://ark.intel.com/Search/FeatureFilter?productType=processors

X5600 series.

> > At least, they don't SAY they do.
> 
> Which "they" are we talking about? If you mean Intel, they are on top of 
> keeping the ark pages updated with this information.

"they" as in the CPU(s).

Yes, the Intel ones. But if it's not turned on in the CPU, then it won't be 
available.



> I doubt it. But CPU-reporting tools might misreport information due to a bug, 
> or might report how the BIOS has configured the CPU rather than what the CPU 
> is capable of.

You were right about that, the version of the tool I was using was the wrong 
one, and didn't know about EPT/SLAT. So I'll try it again with that CPU when I 
get to that location next week.


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Re: [qubes-users] Re: desktop recommendations?

[cooloutac]

ya checked hcl report on my i5 and it says slat is enabled.

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: desktop recommendations?

[brendan . hoar]

On Saturday, April 7, 2018 at 9:03:39 AM UTC-4, Thierry Laurion wrote:
> Le sam. 7 avr. 2018 08:26,   a écrit :
> On Friday, April 6, 2018 at 9:27:11 PM UTC-4, Drew White wrote:
> > I only went on what I was told. I have Ivy Bridge, and they don't have SLAT.
> 
> Which CPU in particular? Did you look it up at the following link?
> 
>   https://ark.intel.com/Search/FeatureFilter?productType=processors
> 
> > At least, they don't SAY they do.
> 
> SLAT exist on Intel i3 i5 and i7 from their first generation (nehalem). Its 
> nothing new.

After reviewing, I concur Re: SLAT/EPT.

The BIOS will still need to enable VT-x to make things work. And for Qubes 4.0, 
you will need to verify vt-d/IOMMU is supported and enabled in/by BIOS as well.

Brendan

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: desktop recommendations?

[Thierry Laurion]

Le sam. 7 avr. 2018 08:26,  a écrit :

> On Friday, April 6, 2018 at 9:27:11 PM UTC-4, Drew White wrote:
> > On Saturday, 7 April 2018 10:41:13 UTC+10, Thierry Laurion  wrote:
> > > You seem to have misunderstood. Ivy bridge and beyond on the Intel
> side will provide you with SLAT capabilities, IOMMU and virtualization,
> which is all that is required.  A x230 with 16gb ram and a i5 or i7 will
> provide you akk the power needed if you have an sad drive.
> >
> > I only went on what I was told. I have Ivy Bridge, and they don't have
> SLAT.
>
> Which CPU in particular? Did you look it up at the following link?
>   https://ark.intel.com/Search/FeatureFilter?productType=processors
>
> > At least, they don't SAY they do.
>
SLAT exist on Intel i3 i5 and i7 from their first generation (nehalem). Its
nothing new.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Level_Address_Translation

Check Qubes HCL:
https://www.qubes-os.org/hcl/



> Which "they" are we talking about? If you mean Intel, they are on top of
> keeping the ark pages updated with this information.
>
> > Do they sometimes not say they have it even when they do?
>
> I doubt it. But CPU-reporting tools might misreport information due to a
> bug, or might report how the BIOS has configured the CPU rather than what
> the CPU is capable of.
>
> In addition to the CPU having to support certain features, many
> manufacturers don't enable the requisite virtualization features in the
> BIOS startup. Ignoring the closed-source firmware controversy (I don't want
> engage deeply on that, other than to say there are some complex ways of
> working around the BIOS issues with coreboot, etc. but there is no
> guarantee)...the BIOS issue is why I would recommend Thinkpad and Dell
> workstation-laptops from 2011 onward if the installed CPU has been verified
> in ARK* to have the supported features: VT-x with EPT or RVI *AND* VT-d or
> AMD-Vi aka IOMMU. These manufacturers went out of their way to do things
> correctly for their business-oriented machines, ensuring that all the
> higher-end CPU features could be utilized.
>
> E.g. why the "manufactured after 20xx" approach does not work...
>
> - I have a stack of purchased-used Thinkpad W520s here: manufactured in
> 2011 and 2012, they meet the prerequisites, as they have Sandy Bridge CPUs
> and proper support in BIOS.
>
> Sadly the embedded CPU in my GPX Pocket, manufactured in 2017, has an Atom
> x7-Z8750 (Cherry Trail family of power-efficient CPUs). While that CPU was
> released to market in 2016, and while it support VT-x, both EPT and VT-d
> are missing, so no QUBES 4.0 support. :(
>
> Last caveat: some Intel CPUs had broken support for these features in
> early steppings (manufacturer run tweaks), e.g. this one, which did not
> support EPT until the C2 stepping:
> https://ark.intel.com/products/63697/Intel-Core-i7-3930K-Processor-12M-Cache-up-to-3_80-GHz
>
> Brendan
>
> * AMD likely has a similar site to Intel's ARK site for use in gathering
> information on CPU features, but I haven't dug into that.
>
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Re: [qubes-users] Re: desktop recommendations?

[brendan . hoar]

On Friday, April 6, 2018 at 9:27:11 PM UTC-4, Drew White wrote:
> On Saturday, 7 April 2018 10:41:13 UTC+10, Thierry Laurion  wrote:
> > You seem to have misunderstood. Ivy bridge and beyond on the Intel side 
> > will provide you with SLAT capabilities, IOMMU and virtualization, which is 
> > all that is required.  A x230 with 16gb ram and a i5 or i7 will provide you 
> > akk the power needed if you have an sad drive.
> 
> I only went on what I was told. I have Ivy Bridge, and they don't have SLAT.

Which CPU in particular? Did you look it up at the following link?
  https://ark.intel.com/Search/FeatureFilter?productType=processors

> At least, they don't SAY they do.

Which "they" are we talking about? If you mean Intel, they are on top of 
keeping the ark pages updated with this information.
 
> Do they sometimes not say they have it even when they do?

I doubt it. But CPU-reporting tools might misreport information due to a bug, 
or might report how the BIOS has configured the CPU rather than what the CPU is 
capable of.

In addition to the CPU having to support certain features, many manufacturers 
don't enable the requisite virtualization features in the BIOS startup. 
Ignoring the closed-source firmware controversy (I don't want engage deeply on 
that, other than to say there are some complex ways of working around the BIOS 
issues with coreboot, etc. but there is no guarantee)...the BIOS issue is why I 
would recommend Thinkpad and Dell workstation-laptops from 2011 onward if the 
installed CPU has been verified in ARK* to have the supported features: VT-x 
with EPT or RVI *AND* VT-d or AMD-Vi aka IOMMU. These manufacturers went out of 
their way to do things correctly for their business-oriented machines, ensuring 
that all the higher-end CPU features could be utilized.

E.g. why the "manufactured after 20xx" approach does not work...

- I have a stack of purchased-used Thinkpad W520s here: manufactured in 2011 
and 2012, they meet the prerequisites, as they have Sandy Bridge CPUs and 
proper support in BIOS.

Sadly the embedded CPU in my GPX Pocket, manufactured in 2017, has an Atom 
x7-Z8750 (Cherry Trail family of power-efficient CPUs). While that CPU was 
released to market in 2016, and while it support VT-x, both EPT and VT-d are 
missing, so no QUBES 4.0 support. :(

Last caveat: some Intel CPUs had broken support for these features in early 
steppings (manufacturer run tweaks), e.g. this one, which did not support EPT 
until the C2 stepping: 
https://ark.intel.com/products/63697/Intel-Core-i7-3930K-Processor-12M-Cache-up-to-3_80-GHz

Brendan 

* AMD likely has a similar site to Intel's ARK site for use in gathering 
information on CPU features, but I haven't dug into that.

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: desktop recommendations?

[cooloutac]

On Friday, April 6, 2018 at 9:27:11 PM UTC-4, Drew White wrote:
> On Saturday, 7 April 2018 10:41:13 UTC+10, Thierry Laurion  wrote:
> > You seem to have misunderstood. Ivy bridge and beyond on the Intel side 
> > will provide you with SLAT capabilities, IOMMU and virtualization, which is 
> > all that is required.  A x230 with 16gb ram and a i5 or i7 will provide you 
> > akk the power needed if you have an sad drive.
> 
> I only went on what I was told. I have Ivy Bridge, and they don't have SLAT.
> At least, they don't SAY they do.
> 
> Do they sometimes not say they have it even when they do?

what do you mean say how are you testing?

I'm about to go test on my ivybridge right now lol.

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: desktop recommendations?

[Drew White]

On Saturday, 7 April 2018 10:41:13 UTC+10, Thierry Laurion  wrote:
> You seem to have misunderstood. Ivy bridge and beyond on the Intel side will 
> provide you with SLAT capabilities, IOMMU and virtualization, which is all 
> that is required.  A x230 with 16gb ram and a i5 or i7 will provide you akk 
> the power needed if you have an sad drive.

I only went on what I was told. I have Ivy Bridge, and they don't have SLAT.
At least, they don't SAY they do.

Do they sometimes not say they have it even when they do?

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: desktop recommendations?

[Thierry Laurion]

Sorry for autocorrect.

Le ven. 6 avr. 2018 20:40, Thierry Laurion  a
écrit :

>
>
> Le ven. 6 avr. 2018 20:11, Drew White  a écrit :
>
>> On Thursday, 5 April 2018 17:52:09 UTC+10, tai...@gmx.com  wrote:
>> > On 04/04/2018 10:59 PM, Drew White wrote:
>> >
>> > > I can't say anything about Qubes 4 because their restrictions on it
>> require the latest CPUs and all (apparently) with certain technology that
>> pre-2017 CPUs don't have. (Or so I read).
>> > 2017? what? where did you read that? (I have a good idea where...a
>> > certain company perhaps?)
>> >
>> > The first CPU with all the capabilities is circa 2011 with the last and
>> > best owner controlled x86_64 CPU's 2013. (AMD 43xx and 63xx)
>>
>> No, Qubes 4 I was told would require certain functionality in the CPU. I
>> even read it on the Qubes website. Part of the CPU vulnerability remedy for
>> RAM access and the page sharing vulnerabilities.
>>
>> Qubes 4 was supposed to not work on anything except CPUs that have that.
>>
>> And that was some technology only implemented in CPUs that came out in
>> late 2016 early 2017 and beyond.
>>
>> That is what I was told about Qubes 4, therefore it would not run on my
>> older CPUs. This is what the makers of Qubes informed me of.
>>
> You seem to have misunderstood. Ivy bridge and beyond on the Intel side
> will provide you with SLAT capabilities, IOMMU and virtualization, which is
> all that is required.  A x230 with 16gb ram and a i5 or i7 will provide you
> akk the power needed if you have an sad drive.
>
>>
>>
>>
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>> "qubes-users" group.
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>> .
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: desktop recommendations?

[Thierry Laurion]

Le ven. 6 avr. 2018 20:11, Drew White  a écrit :

> On Thursday, 5 April 2018 17:52:09 UTC+10, tai...@gmx.com  wrote:
> > On 04/04/2018 10:59 PM, Drew White wrote:
> >
> > > I can't say anything about Qubes 4 because their restrictions on it
> require the latest CPUs and all (apparently) with certain technology that
> pre-2017 CPUs don't have. (Or so I read).
> > 2017? what? where did you read that? (I have a good idea where...a
> > certain company perhaps?)
> >
> > The first CPU with all the capabilities is circa 2011 with the last and
> > best owner controlled x86_64 CPU's 2013. (AMD 43xx and 63xx)
>
> No, Qubes 4 I was told would require certain functionality in the CPU. I
> even read it on the Qubes website. Part of the CPU vulnerability remedy for
> RAM access and the page sharing vulnerabilities.
>
> Qubes 4 was supposed to not work on anything except CPUs that have that.
>
> And that was some technology only implemented in CPUs that came out in
> late 2016 early 2017 and beyond.
>
> That is what I was told about Qubes 4, therefore it would not run on my
> older CPUs. This is what the makers of Qubes informed me of.
>
You seem to have misunderstood. Ivy bridge and beyond on the Intel side
will provide you with SLAT capabilities, IOMMU and virtualization, which is
all that is required.  A x230 with 16gb ram and a i5 or i7 will provide you
akk the power needed if you have an sad drive.

>
>
>
> --
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Re: [qubes-users] Re: desktop recommendations?

[Drew White]

On Thursday, 5 April 2018 17:52:09 UTC+10, tai...@gmx.com  wrote:
> On 04/04/2018 10:59 PM, Drew White wrote:
> 
> > I can't say anything about Qubes 4 because their restrictions on it require 
> > the latest CPUs and all (apparently) with certain technology that pre-2017 
> > CPUs don't have. (Or so I read).
> 2017? what? where did you read that? (I have a good idea where...a
> certain company perhaps?)
> 
> The first CPU with all the capabilities is circa 2011 with the last and
> best owner controlled x86_64 CPU's 2013. (AMD 43xx and 63xx)

No, Qubes 4 I was told would require certain functionality in the CPU. I even 
read it on the Qubes website. Part of the CPU vulnerability remedy for RAM 
access and the page sharing vulnerabilities.

Qubes 4 was supposed to not work on anything except CPUs that have that.

And that was some technology only implemented in CPUs that came out in late 
2016 early 2017 and beyond.

That is what I was told about Qubes 4, therefore it would not run on my older 
CPUs. This is what the makers of Qubes informed me of.



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Re: [qubes-users] Re: desktop recommendations?

[taii...@gmx.com]

On 04/04/2018 10:59 PM, Drew White wrote:

> I can't say anything about Qubes 4 because their restrictions on it require 
> the latest CPUs and all (apparently) with certain technology that pre-2017 
> CPUs don't have. (Or so I read).
2017? what? where did you read that? (I have a good idea where...a
certain company perhaps?)

The first CPU with all the capabilities is circa 2011 with the last and
best owner controlled x86_64 CPU's 2013. (AMD 43xx and 63xx)

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0xDF372A17.asc
Description: application/pgp-keys

Re: [qubes-users] Re: desktop recommendations?

[Drew White]

On Thursday, 5 April 2018 01:21:50 UTC+10, cooloutac  wrote:
> So I think what you are saying is amount of ram is way more important then 
> amount of cpu cores?   Which makes sense to me.

That is correct. 
The requirements of things, I use static RAM, not variable.
For Linux like Fedora 22+ they are resource hungry, so giving them 1024MB+ is 
best. Dom0 on Qubes 3.2 can run in 1024 MB RAM, IF you are not running the 
standard Qubes VM Manager.
If you want to run the normal Qubes VM Manager you will need at least 2Gb 
assigned. They normally have 4 Gb by default. But I decrease that to 1.5GB 
since I use their Manager OCCASIONALLY, and not having it running all the time.

I can't say anything about Qubes 4 because their restrictions on it require the 
latest CPUs and all (apparently) with certain technology that pre-2017 CPUs 
don't have. (Or so I read).

They may have fixed some things in Qubes 4, but they are still using Fedora.

Once they have finished patching things for 4, I will be finishing a 
non-SystemD version of Qubes. So that will require less RAM and run faster and 
be more stable and secure.

So take that all into consideration too.

Another thing, make sure it's good RAM. Test it to check how many page faults 
and errors you get. Even if it's 2166 hz RAM, if there are too many faults, it 
will be slow as a wet week.

So don't get cheap things.
Thing is, you only get what you pay for. So if you pay for low quality, you get 
low quality.

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: desktop recommendations?

[cooloutac]

On Wednesday, April 4, 2018 at 11:21:50 AM UTC-4, cooloutac wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 4, 2018 at 1:15:42 AM UTC-4, Drew White wrote:
> > I personally use one PC and one laptop.
> > PC is a Dell T5500, 12 threads, 24 GB RAM. I can upgrade that to 24 threads 
> > and 128 GB RAM, I run 14 Guests at a time often. I rarely use all the CPU. 
> > RAM runs out if I start too many.
> > X5680 with DDR3 RAM.
> > 
> > Laptop is an HP EliteBook 8460p, 4 threads and 8 Gb RAM, can upgrade to 8 
> > threads and 16 GB RAM. I run 4-10 Guests at a time.
> > i7-2620M, SODIMM DDR3
> > 
> > (Guests referring to not the always active NetVM or ProxyVM.)
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Wednesday, 4 April 2018 11:12:54 UTC+10, Ted Brenner  wrote:
> > > What do people recommend for CPU? With running a lot of VMs, it would 
> > > seem having a lot of cores could be helpful. Is that accurate? Or is that 
> > > not really necessary?
> 
> So I think what you are saying is amount of ram is way more important then 
> amount of cpu cores?   Which makes sense to me.

and big ssd ideal too.

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: desktop recommendations?

[cooloutac]

On Wednesday, April 4, 2018 at 1:15:42 AM UTC-4, Drew White wrote:
> I personally use one PC and one laptop.
> PC is a Dell T5500, 12 threads, 24 GB RAM. I can upgrade that to 24 threads 
> and 128 GB RAM, I run 14 Guests at a time often. I rarely use all the CPU. 
> RAM runs out if I start too many.
> X5680 with DDR3 RAM.
> 
> Laptop is an HP EliteBook 8460p, 4 threads and 8 Gb RAM, can upgrade to 8 
> threads and 16 GB RAM. I run 4-10 Guests at a time.
> i7-2620M, SODIMM DDR3
> 
> (Guests referring to not the always active NetVM or ProxyVM.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, 4 April 2018 11:12:54 UTC+10, Ted Brenner  wrote:
> > What do people recommend for CPU? With running a lot of VMs, it would seem 
> > having a lot of cores could be helpful. Is that accurate? Or is that not 
> > really necessary?

So I think what you are saying is amount of ram is way more important then 
amount of cpu cores?   Which makes sense to me.

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: desktop recommendations?

[Franz]

On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 2:15 AM, Drew White  wrote:

> I personally use one PC and one laptop.
> PC is a Dell T5500, 12 threads, 24 GB RAM. I can upgrade that to 24
> threads and 128 GB RAM, I run 14 Guests at a time often. I rarely use all
> the CPU. RAM runs out if I start too many.
> X5680 with DDR3 RAM.
>
> Laptop is an HP EliteBook 8460p, 4 threads and 8 Gb RAM, can upgrade to 8
> threads and 16 GB RAM. I run 4-10 Guests at a time.
> i7-2620M, SODIMM DDR3
>
> (Guests referring to not the always active NetVM or ProxyVM.)
>
>
I only have one Qubes laptop and no desktop, and wonder how it may be
practical to keep two Qubes machines at the same time. How can one sync the
two? I can only imagine with backup and restore which is too complex and
time consuming to do every day. So if laptop and desktop are not synced
they may be used for different aims. Is that what you do?



>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, 4 April 2018 11:12:54 UTC+10, Ted Brenner  wrote:
> > What do people recommend for CPU? With running a lot of VMs, it would
> seem having a lot of cores could be helpful. Is that accurate? Or is that
> not really necessary?
>
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Re: [qubes-users] Re: desktop recommendations?

[Drew White]

I personally use one PC and one laptop.
PC is a Dell T5500, 12 threads, 24 GB RAM. I can upgrade that to 24 threads and 
128 GB RAM, I run 14 Guests at a time often. I rarely use all the CPU. RAM runs 
out if I start too many.
X5680 with DDR3 RAM.

Laptop is an HP EliteBook 8460p, 4 threads and 8 Gb RAM, can upgrade to 8 
threads and 16 GB RAM. I run 4-10 Guests at a time.
i7-2620M, SODIMM DDR3

(Guests referring to not the always active NetVM or ProxyVM.)





On Wednesday, 4 April 2018 11:12:54 UTC+10, Ted Brenner  wrote:
> What do people recommend for CPU? With running a lot of VMs, it would seem 
> having a lot of cores could be helpful. Is that accurate? Or is that not 
> really necessary?

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: desktop recommendations?

['awokd' via qubes-users]

On Wed, April 4, 2018 1:12 am, Ted Brenner wrote:
> What do people recommend for CPU? With running a lot of VMs, it would
> seem having a lot of cores could be helpful. Is that accurate? Or is that
> not really necessary?

It's nice to have but often usage patterns don't require it because you're
only actively using one application at a time and the rest are idle. If
you're the type who has a compile going in one qube, some video
conversions in another, watching web video in another, etc. then there's
no substitute for cores (and RAM and fast disk).

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: desktop recommendations?

[Ted Brenner]

What do people recommend for CPU? With running a lot of VMs, it would seem
having a lot of cores could be helpful. Is that accurate? Or is that not
really necessary?

On Sat, Mar 24, 2018 at 4:51 PM, cooloutac  wrote:

> On Friday, March 23, 2018 at 5:42:16 PM UTC-4, tai...@gmx.com wrote:
> > On 03/22/2018 10:01 PM, cooloutac wrote:
> >
> > > also just wanted to say the other reason I suggest the legacy ps2 port
> is if you plan to use usb 3.0 ports most boards route all the usb
> controllers into one when 3.0 controller (xhci) is enabled.  so you would
> need to use the usb proxy and it would not be safe using a keyboard this
> way.
> > >
> > > Although some mobos will let you manually route usb ports to specific
> controllers.   There is always two next to the ps2 port for keyboard and
> mouse on separate controller if you are fine with disabling 3.0 and don't
> want to use a ps2 adapter.
> > Telling people to use PS/2 is dangerous advice as all your keystrokes
> > are sent out via the ground wire, it is better to instead have two or
> > more physically separate USB controllers.
>
> Oh here we go again...  I"m just repeating what Joanna Rutkowska and the
> devs of this very OS you are using have advised people to do.
>
> And what if people ant to use a sys-usb and a keyboard and mouse and don't
> have two seperate usb controllers?  And I believe USB keyboard is more
> vulnerable,  then someone listening to your ground wire lmao...
> http://theinvisiblethings.blogspot.com/2011/06/usb-
> security-challenges.html again this is why the free software movement is
> never taken seriouslywow.
>
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Re: [qubes-users] Re: desktop recommendations?

[cooloutac]

On Friday, March 23, 2018 at 5:42:16 PM UTC-4, tai...@gmx.com wrote:
> On 03/22/2018 10:01 PM, cooloutac wrote:
> 
> > also just wanted to say the other reason I suggest the legacy ps2 port is 
> > if you plan to use usb 3.0 ports most boards route all the usb controllers 
> > into one when 3.0 controller (xhci) is enabled.  so you would need to use 
> > the usb proxy and it would not be safe using a keyboard this way.
> >
> > Although some mobos will let you manually route usb ports to specific 
> > controllers.   There is always two next to the ps2 port for keyboard and 
> > mouse on separate controller if you are fine with disabling 3.0 and don't 
> > want to use a ps2 adapter.
> Telling people to use PS/2 is dangerous advice as all your keystrokes
> are sent out via the ground wire, it is better to instead have two or
> more physically separate USB controllers.

Oh here we go again...  I"m just repeating what Joanna Rutkowska and the devs 
of this very OS you are using have advised people to do. 

And what if people ant to use a sys-usb and a keyboard and mouse and don't have 
two seperate usb controllers?  And I believe USB keyboard is more vulnerable,  
then someone listening to your ground wire lmao...
http://theinvisiblethings.blogspot.com/2011/06/usb-security-challenges.html 
again this is why the free software movement is never taken seriouslywow.

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: desktop recommendations?

[taii...@gmx.com]

On 03/22/2018 10:01 PM, cooloutac wrote:

> also just wanted to say the other reason I suggest the legacy ps2 port is if 
> you plan to use usb 3.0 ports most boards route all the usb controllers into 
> one when 3.0 controller (xhci) is enabled.  so you would need to use the usb 
> proxy and it would not be safe using a keyboard this way.
>
> Although some mobos will let you manually route usb ports to specific 
> controllers.   There is always two next to the ps2 port for keyboard and 
> mouse on separate controller if you are fine with disabling 3.0 and don't 
> want to use a ps2 adapter.
Telling people to use PS/2 is dangerous advice as all your keystrokes
are sent out via the ground wire, it is better to instead have two or
more physically separate USB controllers.

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[qubes-users] Re: desktop recommendations?

[cooloutac]

also just wanted to say the other reason I suggest the legacy ps2 port is if 
you plan to use usb 3.0 ports most boards route all the usb controllers into 
one when 3.0 controller (xhci) is enabled.  so you would need to use the usb 
proxy and it would not be safe using a keyboard this way.

Although some mobos will let you manually route usb ports to specific 
controllers.   There is always two next to the ps2 port for keyboard and mouse 
on separate controller if you are fine with disabling 3.0 and don't want to use 
a ps2 adapter.

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[qubes-users] Re: desktop recommendations?

[cooloutac]

also forgot to mention TPM plus TXT features in bios would add to security if 
you plan to use them.  But again it is for more advanced users.  But would 
imply the board might be more compatible for qubes since it has these extra 
security features in the first place.  Just my opinion.

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[qubes-users] Re: desktop recommendations?

[cooloutac]

On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 5:07:24 PM UTC-4, Ted Brenner wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> 
> My current desktop is getting old so I'm looking for an upgrade. Obviously I 
> want to run qubes on it so hoping some of you may have recently built a new 
> desktop that you're currently running qubes on. I've seen a lot of emails 
> about laptops but rarely about desktops so thought it was worth asking.
> 
> 
> Also, I've seen the hardware compatibility list. The problem with that is you 
> have no idea how old those posts are and what sort of system they're part of. 
> Or if they work with Qubes 4.
> 
> 
> Anyway, thanks for help in advance.
> 
> Ted
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Sent from my Desktop

My advice would be to research a mobo and cpu combo on linux forums and mailing 
lists.  Read linux forums and see if people have alot of problems with that set 
up or how popular they are, if it works well or not.

For gpu its best to use intel which is most compatible with linux,   if you 
want a discrete gpu, which would only be for desktop effects but does improve 
performance somewhat.  You would be better off with a gpu that is not too new.  
 I'd say don't get one that is newer then 2 or 3 years old.  Also research 
their linux compatibility. 

Also to make sure the mobo is compatible with Qubes,  look at the manual 
online.   Look for vt-d iommu option is available. Is it on by default or 
not, do they describe it as a security feature.   Even better and as qubes 
documentation has recommended,  best if you actually see a pic of the option 
shown enabled in the manual.

I would suggest gigabyte or asus business type mobos.   not gaming ones or 
anything like that.   Also would suggest it has a ps2 legacy keyboard port and 
you use a usb to ps2 adapter for better security when using sys-usb vm.


Now some others on here would say that is not going far enough and might 
suggest some server mobo you can flash an open source bios onto.  Thats great 
if your a computer expert if not just get something basic for less headaches 
you will be reasonably secure.

   

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