[ntp:questions] ntp server using HP/Symmetricom 58534a
Has anyone setup an ntp server using the HP/Symmetricom 58534a ? I understand it is nmea-0183 with a 1pps output. Pros, cons ? Thanks, Phil ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] NTP stops when client address changes?
"David J Taylor" wrote in message news:qbpem.64784$oo7.9...@text.news.virginmedia.com... > David Woolley wrote: >> David J Taylor wrote: >> >>> >>> Anyway, it seems that your understanding is the same as mine, that >>> even if a router's wide-area IP address changes, NTP on a PC should >>> keep working. >> >> The address shouldn't, of course, change! > > Thanks, David. My understanding is: > > - The router's WAN address can and does change. > > - The PC's address should not change as long as it is switched on, but it > /might/ get a different address at reboot (although often the router will > give out the same IP address to the same MAC address within a certain > period). > >> There are known problems if the address of the actual PC interface >> changes. > > - but this shouldn't /normally/ happen while the PC remains connected to > the router. > > I'm thinking more and more that this was some sort of one-off issue with > the router - perhaps a forced firmware update which caused settings to be > lost, and hence did change the PCs address when it renewed its DHCP lease, > and hence caused the NTP problem? > > Cheers, > David You can also give the PC a fixed IP address and not worry about DHCP or lease time. Phil ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] NTP stops when client address changes?
"phil" wrote in message news:h5goi5$fj...@news.eternal-september.org... > > "David J Taylor" > wrote in > message news:h%qem.64818$oo7.26...@text.news.virginmedia.com... >> phil wrote: >> [] >>> You can also give the PC a fixed IP address and not worry about DHCP >>> or lease time. >>> Phil >> >> Yes, in this particular application that would be an excellent solution, >> and one I use myself. But here, we are dealing with non-computer people, >> and just getting them to add the port-forwarding to their router (for the >> application, not NTP) is pain enough. Having to get them to reconfigure >> the router for fixed IPs is probablt a little too far! >> >> Cheers, >> David > > David, > The implication is this is a simple standalone pc using a home-style > router. That be the case, no port forwarding is required. There should be > no change required in the router settings with the use of the fixed IP > providing the computer ip and subnet is properly set. You should be able > to point the dns of the fixed ip pc to the ip of the router and it work > fine. > > It's either that (fixed ip) or just use a simple time program that you > don't have to fuss with like tardis or some generic program to grab ntp > time. > > By the way, ntp servers are not worth a flip if the pc you are running it > on is turned on/off daily. > > Phil > David, I may have spoken to fast; you might have to set the "network" side of the router to a fixed address. Leave the DHCP settings alone and it will still be able vend an ip to another computer or device on the network that has no fixed ip. There are many guides on the net on walking one through the settings that are router model specific. Even most router manufactures have the ability to walk you through the settings as a customer service for free. Phil ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] NTP stops when client address changes?
"David J Taylor" wrote in message news:h%qem.64818$oo7.26...@text.news.virginmedia.com... > phil wrote: > [] >> You can also give the PC a fixed IP address and not worry about DHCP >> or lease time. >> Phil > > Yes, in this particular application that would be an excellent solution, > and one I use myself. But here, we are dealing with non-computer people, > and just getting them to add the port-forwarding to their router (for the > application, not NTP) is pain enough. Having to get them to reconfigure > the router for fixed IPs is probablt a little too far! > > Cheers, > David David, The implication is this is a simple standalone pc using a home-style router. That be the case, no port forwarding is required. There should be no change required in the router settings with the use of the fixed IP providing the computer ip and subnet is properly set. You should be able to point the dns of the fixed ip pc to the ip of the router and it work fine. It's either that (fixed ip) or just use a simple time program that you don't have to fuss with like tardis or some generic program to grab ntp time. By the way, ntp servers are not worth a flip if the pc you are running it on is turned on/off daily. Phil ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] New Version of NTP Installer for Windows from Meinberg
"Ulrich Windl" wrote in message
news:87tz0cxf5e@pc9454.klinik.uni-regensburg.de...
> Heiko Gerstung writes:
>
>> Hi Clock Addictives,
>>
>> following the security update of NTP we built a new version of our NTP
>> Installer for Windows which now installs NTP 4.2.4p7 (ntpd and tools) as
>> well
>> as the full NTP Documentation. The installer now also includes the
>> current
>> version of the OpenSSL library (0.9.8k).
>
> A note: When updating an older version on Windows/2003 Server, ntpd.exe
> could not be deleted ("access denied" for no obvious reason). Even
> though the installed completed when "ignoring" the problem, the ntpd.exe
> is still the old version. (I notified Meinberg about that)
>
> Regards,
> Ulrich
Ulrich,
It wouldn't delete it because ntpd.exe was still open or in memory. Try
deleting it in safe mode.
Phil
___
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Re: [ntp:questions] 500ppm - is it too small?
"Unruh" wrote in message news:o48hm.41192$ph1.17...@edtnps82... > "David J Taylor" > writes: > >>"nemo_outis" wrote in message [] >>> I fail to see the value or relevance of "500ppm satisfies 98% of >>> computer >>> clocks" if some other number, perhaps 5000 ppm, could satisfy yet even >>> more >>> than 98% of computer clocks with no downside - as indeed seems to be the >>> case! Chrony, whatever its other merits and demerits, is an "existence >>> proof" for this proposition. >>> >>> Regards, > >>Oh, simply that have knowledge of how many computers were excluded at a >>particular value of maximum drift might allow the NTP designer to make a >>better judgement of just where to set that arbitrary 500ppm number. For >>example, if 100ppm excluded 50% it would obviously be a poor choice, and >>it 500ppm includes 99.999% of computers it could be an excellent choice. >>As it is, in a community of end users perhaps one or two out of about a >>hundred have reported problems with NTP as supplied, and it seems a shame >>to exclude them if a small relaxation in the tolerance might allow them to >>run NTP rather than them having the view "NTP doesn't work". > >>No chance of the limit being a command-line parameter, I suppose? > > So I have 9 clocks. > The rates are > -190, 19 , -106, -67,-200 -219, -115 -140 221 > > On reboot, the latter changed from 221 to 215 (Which took ntp about 6 > hours to recover from) > > The clock scaling in linux seems to suffered a real problem in the past > year or two, so that the rate from one reboot to the next can change by > 50PPM, which then takes ntp a long time to recover from. > > two years ago those same clocks, running earlier kernels, had rates of > 5 -17 45 27 23 100 101 -10 8 -39 39 25. > > It will not take much more degredation for the clocks to surpass the > 500PPM limit. And this is not due to any change in the hardware. It > seems to be kernel software and the scaling calibration being performed > at bootup. > Sometimes "complex" problems can have simple solutions. I had the same issue a couple years ago with multiple computers. I bought a box of button batteries and changed every one I could find. My hardware clocks improved at least on the order that you say yours degraded, perhaps more. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Configuring FreeBSD 6.2 for use with Garmin GPS 18 LVC
> The odd thing is, the GPS 18 LVC ran fine for a few weeks with the receiver > inside, when it suddenly stopped getting any signal. After that, I mounted > it on a bracket about a foot outside the window, where it ran fine for about > three months. Now the signal is intermittent, although most of the time it > is not synced. > If I power-cycle the unit, it syncs for about 5 - 10 minutes, then loses > signal. Sometimes it will sync again, sometimes it won't. But it's always > intermittent. So it's apparent that it does get signal but it's weak. > Dennis Hilberg, Jr. timekeeper(at)dennishilberg(dot)com > NTP Server Information: http://saturn.dennishilberg.com/ntp.php Dennis, Have you considered that the unit itself may be defective, Granted it "used" to work, but that doesn't mean it will last forever. It is a massed produced and rather inexpensive unit, I would think ordering a new unit would be cheaper than the time and labor of stringing wire all over the place. Just a thought, Phil ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] NTPD concurrent clients limit
Can the kiss-o'-death packet be disabled ? Is this packet also implemented in a "canned" or hardware only ntp server? Thanks Phil Harwood >>j. wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> I'm testing an embedded linux device, which implement an NTP server, >>> based on the ntpd demon. >>> It looks like ntpd accepts only a limited number of requests from a >>> test clientIi've set up. >>> Do you know if there's such limit or what's the logic behind it? >>> Maybe ntpd rejects bursts of requests coming from the same IP? >>> >>> Thanks in advance, >>> Gianandrea Gobbo. > >>If you poll the server continuously at intervals of less than 64 >>seconds, most modern NTP servers will send you a "Kiss of Death" packet. >>Polling this frequently is considered abusive! It's also unnecessary, >>NTP is designed to work with poll intervals between 64 seconds and 1024 >>seconds and will adjust its poll interval within that range as needed. > > His question can be rephrased, what does ntpd do after it has sent the > Kiss of Death? > does it drop all subsequent packets? -- That sounds like a huge cost on > the > ntp server-- ie imagine a popular server with 10,000 machines it has sent > the KoD to. It then has to scan that whole list for each packet to see if > it is in there-- something which takes time and destroys the ability of > ntp > to deliver its time base rapidly. > > Note that how ntpd handles this situation depends on which version of ntpd > you are running. > > > >>There are two exceptions to the above. You may specify the "iburst" >>keyword for a server and NTPD will send an INITIAL burst of eight >>request packets at intervals of two seconds. This is designed for fast >>startup. After the initial burst, polling continues at intervals >>between 64 and 1024 seconds. > > So how does the server know whether this burst is an iburst or is a rogue > client to which it should send a KoD? > > > >>If you are using a dialup telephone connection for short periods three >>or four times a day, you may specify the "burst" keyword which sends >>eight requests two seconds apart at EACH poll interval. "Burst" is to >>be used ONLY for brief periods with LONG intervals between them! > >>It is customary to request permission from the owner of the server >>before using "burst". ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] NTPD concurrent clients limit
The replies around here sure separate the professionals like David Mills and Steve Kostecke from the seemingly arrogant ones like Unruh. Considering my use of timing is rather critical to my applications I don't even depend on the "pool" servers for time. I use my own Symmetricom gps disciplined ntp servers, my own Datum/Symmetricom gps disciplined rubidium standards for 1PPP and 10 MHz all using HP/Symmetricom gps antennas and gps splitters. Sorry, I only have some ten GPS based time receivers. Unruh said "If it is in hardware only it may be some hack written by someone whose knowledge of ntp was gained in kindergarten class." I guess that depends on what you think of the Symmetricom designers, engineers, and programmers. I also run the latest release of ntpd software on several HP/Compaq Servers. I'm certain I'm a small fish time user, but I feel with this investment I have graduated a little past the sundial and perhaps even a little above the average time user. Phil Harwood "Unruh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > "David L. Mills" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >>Phil, > >>See the limit and kod restrict options in the Access Control Options >>page in the current web documentation. > > Since the current web documentation refers to the current version of ntp, > and since the OP has never told us what version of ntpd he is running or > even if it is ntpd he is running, that may not be helpful. > > In fact he may not know. If it is in hardware only it may be some hack > written by someone whose knowledge of ntp was gained in kindergarten > class. > > > > >>Dave > >>Phil wrote: > >>> Can the kiss-o'-death packet be disabled ? >>> Is this packet also implemented in a "canned" or hardware only ntp >>> server? >>> Thanks >>> Phil Harwood >>> >>> >>> >>>>>j. wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>Hi all, >>>>>>I'm testing an embedded linux device, which implement an NTP server, >>>>>>based on the ntpd demon. >>>>>>It looks like ntpd accepts only a limited number of requests from a >>>>>>test clientIi've set up. >>>>>>Do you know if there's such limit or what's the logic behind it? >>>>>>Maybe ntpd rejects bursts of requests coming from the same IP? >>>>>> >>>>>>Thanks in advance, >>>>>>Gianandrea Gobbo. >>>> >>>>>If you poll the server continuously at intervals of less than 64 >>>>>seconds, most modern NTP servers will send you a "Kiss of Death" >>>>>packet. >>>>>Polling this frequently is considered abusive! It's also unnecessary, >>>>>NTP is designed to work with poll intervals between 64 seconds and 1024 >>>>>seconds and will adjust its poll interval within that range as needed. >>>> >>>>His question can be rephrased, what does ntpd do after it has sent the >>>>Kiss of Death? >>>>does it drop all subsequent packets? -- That sounds like a huge cost on >>>>the >>>>ntp server-- ie imagine a popular server with 10,000 machines it has >>>>sent >>>>the KoD to. It then has to scan that whole list for each packet to see >>>>if >>>>it is in there-- something which takes time and destroys the ability of >>>>ntp >>>>to deliver its time base rapidly. >>>> >>>>Note that how ntpd handles this situation depends on which version of >>>>ntpd >>>>you are running. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>There are two exceptions to the above. You may specify the "iburst" >>>>>keyword for a server and NTPD will send an INITIAL burst of eight >>>>>request packets at intervals of two seconds. This is designed for fast >>>>>startup. After the initial burst, polling continues at intervals >>>>>between 64 and 1024 seconds. >>>> >>>>So how does the server know whether this burst is an iburst or is a >>>>rogue >>>>client to which it should send a KoD? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>If you are using a dialup telephone connection for short periods three >>>>>or four times a day, you may specify the "burst" keyword which sends >>>>>eight requests two seconds apart at EACH poll interval. "Burst" is to >>>>>be used ONLY for brief periods with LONG intervals between them! >>>> >>>>>It is customary to request permission from the owner of the server >>>>>before using "burst". >>> >>> >>> ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] NTPD concurrent clients limit
David, Thank you. I'll explore it further when I get some time. After learning of this "kod" packet and since these servers vend time to my applications, I would prefer or need the correct time (no kod) even if something went haywire banging the fool out of a server. To me, no time is better than wrong time. An "excessive use" type of problem should be easily seen from the increased bandwidth. I understand why you implemented "kod" and other safeguards. I have read articles about ntp abuse like that series of cheap routers that had an ip embedded in the firmware that was banging I believe the ucar.edu ntp servers. Seems like you may have been involved in helping isolate that problem. Considering how adaptive the ntpd software has to be, I'm sure it's a delicate balancing act to make it serve the whole of the time community. Phil "David L. Mills" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Phil, > > In the clash of titans one of your questions about whether a canned > version of the rate management stuff exists. There are quite a number of > products using the reference implementation in one form or another, but > not usually a later version. I know that Meinberg even has Autokey in > their product, for example. But, I wouldn't count on any product to > support anything beyond the NTPv4 specification, and that doesn't require > the particulare schemes in the reference version. Another implementation > might do it differently. > > Dave > > Phil wrote: >> The replies around here sure separate the professionals like David Mills >> and Steve Kostecke from the seemingly arrogant ones like Unruh. >> >> Considering my use of timing is rather critical to my applications I >> don't even depend on the "pool" servers for time. I use my own >> Symmetricom gps disciplined ntp servers, my own Datum/Symmetricom gps >> disciplined rubidium standards for 1PPP and 10 MHz all using >> HP/Symmetricom gps antennas and gps splitters. Sorry, I only have some >> ten GPS based time receivers. >> >> Unruh said "If it is in hardware only it may be some hack >> written by someone whose knowledge of ntp was gained in kindergarten >> class." >> I guess that depends on what you think of the Symmetricom designers, >> engineers, and programmers. I also run the latest release of ntpd >> software on several HP/Compaq Servers. >> >> I'm certain I'm a small fish time user, but I feel with this investment I >> have graduated a little past the sundial and perhaps even a little above >> the average time user. >> >> Phil Harwood >> >> >> "Unruh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message >> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >>>"David L. Mills" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >>> >>> >>>>Phil, >>> >>>>See the limit and kod restrict options in the Access Control Options >>>>page in the current web documentation. >>> >>>Since the current web documentation refers to the current version of ntp, >>>and since the OP has never told us what version of ntpd he is running or >>>even if it is ntpd he is running, that may not be helpful. >>> >>>In fact he may not know. If it is in hardware only it may be some hack >>>written by someone whose knowledge of ntp was gained in kindergarten >>>class. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Dave >>> >>>>Phil wrote: >>> >>>>>Can the kiss-o'-death packet be disabled ? >>>>>Is this packet also implemented in a "canned" or hardware only ntp >>>>>server? >>>>>Thanks >>>>>Phil Harwood >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>j. wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Hi all, >>>>>>>>I'm testing an embedded linux device, which implement an NTP server, >>>>>>>>based on the ntpd demon. >>>>>>>>It looks like ntpd accepts only a limited number of requests from a >>>>>>>>test clientIi've set up. >>>>>>>>Do you know if there's such limit or what's the logic behind it? >>>>>>>>Maybe ntpd rejects bursts of requests coming from the same IP? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Thanks in advance, >>>>>>>>Gianandrea Gobb
Re: [ntp:questions] NTPD concurrent clients limit
Unruh wrote: "Those poor students come onto the lists asking questions and demonstrating that their knowledge level is low, but they are responsible to putting out the programs that will be used by thousands of people. " Unruh, Stop and think a moment, as fast as the electronics and software industry has gone, if you were a full-time student you still couldn't keep up with the "progress" and changes. Consider the boy that started ebay, he cobbled up a bunch of canned scripts for lack of programming experience to get that thing going. I would say in the end his approach succeeded beyond his wildest dreams. We all get thrust into positions dealing with the relatively unknown, that's how most of us learn and what eventually leads to innovation. That's also what got me into electronics in the first place, regardless of how smart you are, or what you know, you can never learn it all. The day you stop learning is the day you cease to exist. Phil ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] NTPD concurrent clients limit
David, For some reason I was under the false impression that kod packet would be equivalent to inserting several leap seconds. If that were the case, I could potentially be in trouble should I accidentally activate it. I'm guilty of taking ntpd for granted since it simply works and haven't studied the mechanics or security of it in detail. That is soon to change. I may have an application that could conceivably hit timeservers by the tens of thousands, and potentially far far greater. It would be from different ip's but my concern, should that be the case, it may or could be considered a rouge script or equipment causing an attack. I certainly don't want you and the rest of the Calvary to be hunting me down. If we follow through on this project, we intend to use our own timeservers not only to keep the Calvary at bay; I can have better and more accurate control using gps disciplined rubidium timebases for the servers. Regard that U Wisconsin incident; I was first made aware of it from the U Wisconsin side. The article I referenced was put together by one of the Wisconsin group detailing the whole experience from discovery through resolution. I'll take a look at your papers, should be a good read too. Thanks for the time, (take that either way !) Phil "David L. Mills" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Phil, > > You refer to the U Wisconsin incient, but there have been several others, > including those at NIST and USNO reported in the PTTI paper in my list of > publications. The rate controls can be used to selectively drop abuse > packets or to return a KoD in the hope that abusers will listen and reduce > the rate. Frankly, in the culture of modern times I doubt very much the > abuser will listen. After some discussion with my friends here, a further > defense was implemented with result the KoD time returned reveals no > influence of the server. It's not wrong, it just doesn't result in a time > adjustment. > > Dave > > Phil wrote: >> David, Thank you. >> I'll explore it further when I get some time. After learning of this >> "kod" packet and since these servers vend time to my applications, I >> would prefer or need the correct time (no kod) even if something went >> haywire banging the fool out of a server. To me, no time is better than >> wrong time. An "excessive use" type of problem should be easily seen from >> the increased bandwidth. >> >> I understand why you implemented "kod" and other safeguards. I have read >> articles about ntp abuse like that series of cheap routers that had an ip >> embedded in the firmware that was banging I believe the ucar.edu ntp >> servers. Seems like you may have been involved in helping isolate that >> problem. Considering how adaptive the ntpd software has to be, I'm sure >> it's a delicate balancing act to make it serve the whole of the time >> community. >> >> Phil >> >> >> "David L. Mills" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message >> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >>>Phil, >>> >>>In the clash of titans one of your questions about whether a canned >>>version of the rate management stuff exists. There are quite a number of >>>products using the reference implementation in one form or another, but >>>not usually a later version. I know that Meinberg even has Autokey in >>>their product, for example. But, I wouldn't count on any product to >>>support anything beyond the NTPv4 specification, and that doesn't require >>>the particulare schemes in the reference version. Another implementation >>>might do it differently. >>> >>>Dave >>> >>>Phil wrote: >>> >>>>The replies around here sure separate the professionals like David Mills >>>>and Steve Kostecke from the seemingly arrogant ones like Unruh. >>>> >>>>Considering my use of timing is rather critical to my applications I >>>>don't even depend on the "pool" servers for time. I use my own >>>>Symmetricom gps disciplined ntp servers, my own Datum/Symmetricom gps >>>>disciplined rubidium standards for 1PPP and 10 MHz all using >>>>HP/Symmetricom gps antennas and gps splitters. Sorry, I only have some >>>>ten GPS based time receivers. >>>> >>>>Unruh said "If it is in hardware only it may be some hack >>>>written by someone whose knowledge of ntp was gained in kindergarten >>>>class." >>>>I guess that depends on what you think of t
Re: [ntp:questions] NTPD concurrent clients limit
Danny, what will happen I have 100,000 of the same script (different ip's) hitting the servers at the same or about same time. That's why I bought my own ntp servers. From what I thought I understood by hearing you guys banter about, the kod will come into play, or will it. Thanks, Phil "Danny Mayer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Phil wrote: >> Can the kiss-o'-death packet be disabled ? >> Is this packet also implemented in a "canned" or hardware only ntp >> server? >> Thanks >> Phil Harwood > > No. Why would you want to? This is to protect the server, not the > clients. In any case there is more than one type of KOD. > > Danny ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] NTPD concurrent clients limit
Unruh, you ask: "100,000? What are you doing?" For now, just say time. At present, numbers not even good guesstimates. "I'm glad you bought your own servers." I thought I might piss a bunch off if I didn't, but I need it accurate, gps based and dependable. "kod is on individual clients" Then I doubt anything to worry about, access per incident is restricted. "I do hope you are not hitting with each client once per second or something." We estimate most bandwidth will be single hits and from different ip's. If it should be repetitive, perhaps at "minute/s" interval and then limited as to total requests and duration before script times out. All the numbers still flexible, but everything will be optimized for least server loads and minimum bandwidth. Phil "Unruh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > "Phil" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >>Danny, > o > 100,000? What are you doing? > >>what will happen I have 100,000 of the same script (different ip's) >>hitting >>the servers at the same or about same time. That's why I bought my own ntp >>servers. From what I thought I understood by hearing you guys banter >>about, > > I'm glad you bought your own servers. > >>the kod will come into play, or will it. > > kod is on individual clients. Ie if a single client starts hitting too > often in a time period a KOD is sent out. It does not care if 100 > others are hitting. Mind you if 10 are hitting at about the same time, > the internal tables cannot keept track of that many clients, and I doubt a > KOD would ever be sent out. > > I do hope you are not hitting with each client once per second or > something. > > >>Thanks, >>Phil > > >>"Danny Mayer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message >>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> Phil wrote: >>>> Can the kiss-o'-death packet be disabled ? >>>> Is this packet also implemented in a "canned" or hardware only ntp >>>> server? >>>> Thanks >>>> Phil Harwood >>> >>> No. Why would you want to? This is to protect the server, not the >>> clients. In any case there is more than one type of KOD. >>> >>> Danny > > ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] NTPD concurrent clients limit
> This concerns me. If you have an application that needs NTP server > sources requiring those kinds of volumes you should be deploying your > own NTP servers or negotiating deals with other service providers in > those countries that you will be delivering your services. Neither the > stratum 1 or stratum 2 or the pool servers are designed to meet the > needs of high-volume private applications. > > Danny Danny and Gang, u didn't read the posts. We have our own ntp servers, actually east and west and possibly more in future Everything is under out control. I have seen some rouge pool servers in the past, I wanted eliminate that anyway. Fact is we have also been experimenting with replacing clocks in larger multi cpu servers with an OCXO timebase board that is phase locked to external gps disciplined rubidium standards. Servers will not be an issue, bandwidth could be. It may wind up being a modified ntp, but since it's not for public access as such, who cares Hope that is clear enough, your fears eliminated ! ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Hopelessly broken clock?
"Chris Richmond" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > I'm trying to set up ntp on a new Core2 Duo box running Fredora Core9. > It appears that it's local clock runs several seconds an hour fast. I'm > basing this on running ntpdate against the existing box I have running > ntp with pps. It reports skewing the clock by seconds even after just > a few minutes. > > Also, ntpq data shows the jitter as always 0.997, and the offset goes > nuts right away. The poll and reach look like they are working, but > the time just gets away really fast. > > I have another box with the same O/S install and ntp config, and it locks > up right away just fine, so I suspect it's a hardware issue, not a > config problem. > > I've tried to read through the offical docs on the NTP web site on > diagnosing problems, but can't make sense of what some of the > instructions mean. What's missing are examples of what actually > needs to happen. > > In any case, if the actual box's clock is that far off, is it a lost > cause as a time keeper? > > Can I make ntptime correct the kernel's clock enough to get this > to work? If so, how, and can this be done in the bootup scripts? > > Thx, Chris > Chris, May not be applicable in your case but I have multiple HP pc's and most were running fast. I replaced batteries in all my machines that were a few years old and it's amazing what a new battery will do. In my case we bought them on-line for about a buck each in quantity and I changed batteries in all my electronics that used the 3-volt button batteries. It may not get the local oscillator on the proper frequency, but it should make it stable, a somewhat fixed drift rate. Just a thought. Phil ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] PCI Syncclock32 driver(s)
Hi, I have recently installed a PCI Syncclock 32 into a PC running Fedora Core 6 however I require a driver (or drivers) so that the system uses the PCI Syncclock32 as a reference clock for a time server. Can anyone help or point me in the right direction? I am fairly new to all this so may need further explanations at some point. Thanks in advance. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] Garmin 18x LVC - two dead units this year
Not really a question any more than "Is anyone else having this much trouble with Garmin 18x?" I ordered a Garmin in early January, got it running by 1/29/09 Garmin device died 3/13/09 New replacement installed 3/27/09 Second unit died this afternoon. Bummer. Guess I will have to keep one spare on hand. Phil Notice: This e-mail message and its attachments are the property of Wendy's/Arby's Group Inc. or one of its subsidiaries and may contain confidential or legally privileged information intended solely for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not an intended recipient, then any use, copying or distribution of this message or its attachments is strictly prohibited. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete this message entirely from your system. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Garmin 18x LVC - two dead units this year
> I have a 18x LVC running here continuously for about 12 months. Maybe your power supply if faulty? Maybe, but I am powering thru the USB connection on the PC if that is relevant. I sent a message to a contact at Garmin about this. Below is a snippet of his response. I don't want to have a perceived irrelevant NTP thread going here, except that I believe that there are quite a few of these in use and thought the topic useful. Someone please direct me otherwise if you feel this does not belong here. I will give his "resurrection" directions a try and post the results. Phil We have discovered an issue with RAM register corruption on firmware that would have been in circulation at the time your unit failed and was replaced. These issues have been corrected in firmware version 3.10 and I would encourage you to update to that version of firmware: https://buy.garmin.com/shop/store/downloadsUpdates.jsp?product=010-00321-31&cID=158&pID=27594 Since the problem is due to corruption of RAM that is backed by a small onboard battery, you could "cure" the problem by allowing the unit to sit, unused for about a month, in which time the battery would discharge sufficiently that the bad contents of RAM would be lost. Enclosed is software that will allow you to resurrect the units that have frozen without having to let them sit un-powered for a month. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] Garmin 18x LVC - two dead units this year
> I will give his "resurrection" directions a try and post the results. Resurrection completed successfully. My 18x LVC was running firmware 3.00, I upgraded to 3.10 after clearing the ROM per Garmin instructions. Anyone needing the software and instructions, drop me an email. Phil Before: $GPRMC,182846,A,4006.0157,N,08306.3016,W,000.0,000.0,270809,006.5,W,D*10 $GPGGA,182846,4006.0157,N,08306.3016,W,2,07,1.2,282.2,M,-32.8,M,,*70 $GPGSA,A,3,03,06,,,11,13,19,23,282.1,1.2,1.7*30 $GPGSV,3,1,09,03,51,058,22,06,39,052,20,07,66,320,18,08,27,310,22*71 $GPGSV,3,2,09,11,12,168,41,13,49,220,34,19,70,107,23,23,21,184,42*71 $GPGSV,3,3,09,28,11,262,30*4F $PGRMT,GPS 18x-LVC software ver. 3.00*6C $GPRMC,182847,A,4006.0157,N,08306.3016,W,000.0,000.0,270809,006.5,W,D*11 $GPGGA,182847,4006.0157,N,08306.3016,W,2,08,1.0,282.2,M,-32.8,M,,*7C $GPGSA,A,3,03,06,,08,11,13,19,23,282.0,1.0,1.7*3B $GPGSV,3,1,09,03,51,058,22,06,39,052,19,07,66,320,18,08,27,310,22*7B $GPGSV,3,2,09,11,12,168,41,13,49,220,34,19,70,107,23,23,21,184,42*71 After: $GPRMC,184045,A,4006.0125,N,08306.3074,W,000.0,000.0,270809,006.5,W,D*1C $GPGGA,184045,4006.0125,N,08306.3074,W,2,06,1.1,277.3,M,-32.8,M,,*75 $GPGSA,A,3,,06,,11,13,19,23,28,1.4,1.1,0.9*39 $GPGSV,3,1,09,03,46,054,15,06,35,050,22,07,72,321,22,11,16,166,44*77 $GPGSV,3,2,09,13,44,215,35,19,69,089,33,23,16,183,44,28,15,266,32*74 $GPGSV,3,3,09,08,30,312,00*4B $PGRMT,GPS 18x-LVC software ver. 3.10*6D $GPRMC,184046,A,4006.0126,N,08306.3072,W,000.0,000.0,270809,006.5,W,D*1A $GPGGA,184046,4006.0126,N,08306.3072,W,2,07,1.1,277.0,M,-32.8,M,,*71 $GPGSA,A,3,,06,07,11,13,19,23,28,1.4,1.1,0.9*3E $GPGSV,3,1,09,03,46,054,15,06,34,050,22,07,72,321,23,11,16,166,44*77 $GPGSV,3,2,09,13,44,215,35,19,69,089,33,23,16,183,44,28,15,266,32*74 $GPGSV,3,3,09,08,30,312,00*4B ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] ntpd: time reset problem
> Is not in the software distribution from here. Apparently, your version of ntpd has been modified. David - Dovecot is the same application I use to POP3 mail from my SMTP gateway to my portal. All it is doing is squawking about the problem because it remembers what time it was the last time it checked the mail, then when it checks again it raises a warning flag. Phil Notice: This e-mail message and its attachments are the property of Wendy's/Arby's Group Inc. or one of its subsidiaries and may contain confidential or legally privileged information intended solely for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not an intended recipient, then any use, copying or distribution of this message or its attachments is strictly prohibited. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete this message entirely from your system. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] Problem: ntpd will not stop when using Pharos GPS reference clock
I am using a Pharos GPS-500 Model X13-51914 GPS sensor from a MS DeLorme mapping package as a stratum 0 timesource for my local timeserver. (As a matter of fact, I bought the sensor for that purpose.) It is working beautifully, and reporting zero jitter once I turned the port up to 115200bps. There's just one problem, which comes up when I need to shut down the machine, reboot, or otherwise stop ntpd for any reason. If ntpd has been running for more than a short period (I'm not sure how long the "safe" run time is)), it will fail to stop, and will in fact completely lock up the system. I can sometimes, not always, get it to stop properly by sending it a SIGKILL instead of SIGTERM. The GPS sensor, on its USB-serial converter, shows up on the USB bus like so: babylon5:alaric:~:3 $ lsusb Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub Bus 003 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub Bus 004 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub Bus 001 Device 005: ID 058f:6361 Alcor Micro Corp. Multimedia Card Reader Bus 004 Device 002: ID 03f0:1105 Hewlett-Packard ScanJet 5470c/5490c Bus 004 Device 003: ID 045e:0040 Microsoft Corp. Wheel Mouse Optical Bus 004 Device 004: ID 067b:aaa0 Prolific Technology, Inc. Prolific Pharos Bus 003 Device 002: ID 04d9:1603 Holtek Semiconductor, Inc. The reference clock is configured as follows in ntp.conf: server 127.127.20.0 prefer minpoll 4 mode 80 fudge 127.127.20.0 flag3 1 flag2 0 time1 0.0 stratum 0 Kernel modules in use for GPS: pps_ktimer 1394 0 pps_ldisc 1987 0 pps_core6394 2 pps_ktimer,pps_ldisc pl2303 11242 1 usbserial 31191 3 pl2303 This failure-to-stop occurs ONLY with the GPS sensor in use. Has anyone encountered a similar problem? Any suggestions as to possible cause or workaround? Do I perhaps need to disconnect the GPS sensor (or perhaps just unload the applicable kernel modules) before trying to stop ntpd? Any tips would be appreciated. -- Phil Stracchino Babylon Communications ph...@caerllewys.net p...@co.ordinate.org Landline: 603.293.8485 ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Problem: ntpd will not stop when using Pharos GPS reference clock
On 11/14/11 16:50, David Woolley wrote: > Phil Stracchino wrote: > >> lock up the system. I can sometimes, not always, get it to stop >> properly by sending it a SIGKILL instead of SIGTERM. > > If SIGKILL doesn't work you have a kernel or hardware problem, not a > problem in ntpd. Oh, I'm quite sure it's hardware *related*, since the problem occurs only when trying to stop ntpd and only when ntpd is using the USB-connected GPS sensor as a hardware reference clock. I was hoping someone else might have encountered this or a similar problem before and know how to fix, avoid, or work around it (other than by not using the GPS refclock). -- Phil Stracchino Babylon Communications ph...@caerllewys.net p...@co.ordinate.org Landline: 603.293.8485 ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] Leap second indication (Linux NTPD specifically)
Hi folks I have spent some time recently looking through the results of various G***le searches relating to LI and Leap Second and other related matters and cannot find an answer to the below. I would appreciate help since we need to cover the scenario where our 2.6.9 Linux kernel may crash/hang when a leap Second insert occurs (due to the printk bug). Some context to avoid repetitive simple answers along lines of upgrade XYZ: * we cannot move to the later 2.6.29 kernel for commercial reasons * we have an old NTP implementation: ntpd: ntpd 4.2.0a@1.1190-r Mon Oct 11 09:10:20 EDT 2004 (1) and again we cannot upgrade this -- certainly in the timeframe prior to June 2012. In view of the above, my question(s) are: + is there a way to disable the kernel from implementing the leap second from a prior announcement? (I.e. during June the NTPD receives a LI notification and tells kernel -- my reading of various posts and RFC/protocol suggests that this can occur anytime in June and specifically in the 24 hours prior to leap second implementation) + will stopping NTPD temporarily for a few days around the end of June avoid having the leap second implemented? (Re-enabling NTPD post the 30 June should re-synchronise time after some interval, correct?) These two questions are related to a potential strategy for covering the leap second hiatus. Thanks -- Phil Fisher| BSC Platform Engineer (Linux) T: +44 (0) 1954 713778 | E: phil.fis...@ipaccess.com | W: www.ipaccess.com ip.access Ltd, Building 2020, Cambourne Business Park, Cambourne, Cambridge, CB23 6DW <http://twitter.com/#!/ipaccessLtd> <http://www.facebook.com/pages/IPAccess/164398760262527> <http://www.linkedin.com/groups/ipaccess-3707588?trk=myg_ugrp_ovr> <http://3ginthehome.wordpress.com/> This message contains confidential information and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete the message immediately. ip.access Ltd, registration number 3400157, Building 2020, Cambourne Business Park, Cambourne, Cambridge CB23 6DW, United Kingdom ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Previous Question [ Leap second indication (Linux NTPD specifically)]
Dear Moderator Due to an oversight on my part I would be grateful if you could remove the signature (like that below) from the previous post and NOT BOTHER POSTING THIS RESPONSE. (Or remove the post and ask me to do it again sans signature part) If this is not possible please accept my apologies and I will be more careful in future. *grovel* -- Phil Fisher| BSC Platform Engineer (Linux) T: +44 (0) 1954 713778 | E: phil.fis...@ipaccess.com | W: www.ipaccess.com ip.access Ltd, Building 2020, Cambourne Business Park, Cambourne, Cambridge, CB23 6DW <http://twitter.com/#!/ipaccessLtd> <http://www.facebook.com/pages/IPAccess/164398760262527> <http://www.linkedin.com/groups/ipaccess-3707588?trk=myg_ugrp_ovr> <http://3ginthehome.wordpress.com/> This message contains confidential information and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete the message immediately. ip.access Ltd, registration number 3400157, Building 2020, Cambourne Business Park, Cambourne, Cambridge CB23 6DW, United Kingdom ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Leap second indication (Linux NTPD specifically)
Hi Dave Thanks for the input that is the sort of information I was looking (but regretfully failed to find -- not sure why since your message certainly implies it should be in ntp.conf documentation). For sure we will be (in fact are) undertaking testing -- but without knowing the parameters it would seem silly to test especially as I prefer testing when I know what are the expected outcomes. Your message also seems to suggest there is a bug inserting the leap second in the kernel; AFAIK the bug is in the printk() routine not the actual kernel time code (kernel/timer.c on Linux). Or is this another NTP leap second bug that I have not known about or noticed? (I apologise for any foolishness here -- I have not used this forum before and may searches may have been too restrictive to pick up other pertinent bugs/information). Phil P.S. The reasons for NTPD shutdown for days prior to Leap Second event are because no-one has yet been able to tell me whether the Linux 2.6.9 kernel has "memory" of a LI event such that it _will_ try to deal with it independent of any further NTPd/NTP interaction. And if such "memory" does exist then the suggestion I have will of course fail miserably. -Original Message- From: Dave Hart [mailto:h...@ntp.org] Sent: 06 March 2012 15:23 To: Phil Fisher Cc: questions@lists.ntp.org Subject: Re: [ntp:questions] Leap second indication (Linux NTPD specifically) To answer your questions you need two test systems (which could be VMs). On one, load a recent-enough ntpd that you can load a "leapfile" using ntp.conf that schedules the insertion for the end of June 2012. If that system's OS also happens to have the bug inserting leap seconds in the kernel NTP loop discipline, disable its use with "disable kernel" in ntp.conf. Set up its ntpd with no sources except a single undisciplined local clock driver "server 127.127.1.0" "fudge 127.127.1.0 stratum 10". On the second system, use the commercially-mandated kernel and ntpd versions, and configure a single "server" line referring to the IP address or hostname of the first system. Now shut down ntpd on both systems. Set the clock on the first system to 5 minutes before the end of the June 2012. Restart ntpd on both systems. Verify the second system tickles the kernel bug while the first doesn't. Add "disable kernel" to ntp.conf on the second system. Repeat the experiment. Now both should handle the leapsecond insertion relatively smoothly. Note that with "disable kernel" ntpd will step the system clock back 1s sometime during the leap second, and any applications depending on the clock to increase monotonically during that period may be unhappy. In short: disable kernel should avoid tickling the bug without necessarily shutting down ntpd, but if you need a monotonically increasing clock, you may still be better off to shut down the entire system for a minute or so at the end of June. Shutting down ntpd or the system for days would be gross overkill. Relying on expectations without testing invites surprise. Cheers, Dave Hart This message contains confidential information and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete the message immediately. ip.access Ltd, registration number 3400157, Building 2020, Cambourne Business Park, Cambourne, Cambridge CB23 6DW, United Kingdom ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Leap second indication (Linux NTPD specifically)
Hi Dave Your comments on my semantics appreciated -- clearly I should put in the kernel version :-) Certainly looking on the various Net sources suggests that it is printk of the Leap Second indication that causes the fault ... but good news that there is not another NTP related bug I had missed. Your ideas in your final paragraphs are interesting so I/we shall look further. One thing we have considered that may be helpful even if more of a hack than anything else is to use adjtimex() as suggested by a previous responder. If my supposition that there is "memory" of LI then we can try to clear this via a call to adjtimex() -- I.e. the LI bits in status structure member. That way we can ensure (once NTP is off) that no LI is set. I shall certainly try to keep people updated if it is of benefit to the gurus on this list (which I doubt). Thanks (and for the anti-groveler earlier poster, I am now upright) Phil -Original Message- From: Dave Hart [mailto:h...@ntp.org] Sent: 06 March 2012 23:13 To: Phil Fisher Cc: questions@lists.ntp.org Subject: Re: [ntp:questions] Leap second indication (Linux NTPD specifically) On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 16:28, Phil Fisher wrote: > Your message also seems to suggest there is a bug inserting the > leap second in the kernel; AFAIK the bug is in the printk() routine > not the actual kernel time code (kernel/timer.c on Linux). Referring to the Linux kernel as "the" kernel is something I'd never do. I'd also never bother to distinguish that a bug exhibited by one code path in the Linux kernel is in fact caused by a different Linux kernel bug. A kernel bug is a kernel bug to me. I've heard of the bug resulting in Linux systems crashing on leap second insertion, and printk() rings a bell. That is the only bug I've heard of regarding leap seconds crashing systems. > P.S. The reasons for NTPD shutdown for days prior to Leap Second > event are because no-one has yet been able to tell me whether the > Linux 2.6.9 kernel has "memory" of a LI event such that it _will_ try to > deal with it independent of any further NTPd/NTP interaction. And if > such "memory" does exist then the suggestion I have will of course > fail miserably. This is a good point. Using the antique kernel and ancient ntpd you're locked into, it's quite possible the kernel will remember the pending leap second insertion if ntpd has been run without "disable kernel" since the OS started. That also reminds me that prior to ntpd 4.2.7p214, anytime you switch between the kernel loop discipline and ntpd's (with "disable kernel") you should reset the kernel loop frequency to zero using "ntptime -f 0" to avoid ugliness due to both ntpd and the kernel loop discipline applying similar frequency corrections. Restarting the OS also resets the kernel frequency compensation to zero. So long as ntpd has not engaged the kernel NTP code since the system has started, the kernel code should not have any idea there is a leap second pending to remember once ntpd stops or is restarted but switched to the daemon (ntpd) loop discipline. Please share the results of your testing with the group. Cheers, Dave Hart This message contains confidential information and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete the message immediately. ip.access Ltd, registration number 3400157, Building 2020, Cambourne Business Park, Cambourne, Cambridge CB23 6DW, United Kingdom ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] Leap Second testing
Hi folks Some of you may recall a question I posted several weeks ago (and to which principally Dave Hart replied) about Leap Second and a testing scenario for our systems. I am processing this at the moment and found what seems to be interesting information, unexpected to me. I was using ntptime to set the status bits for a system running a server (Centos 5, ntpd 4.2.2p1). Tis allowed me to set the LI indicator and apparently to clear it. The output from ntptime is shown at the end of this message. When I look at the syslog (/var/log/messages) I see what seems to be a +1 second jump at about 0200 earlier today -- my system runs BST (== GMT+1/UTC+1). Even more bizarre I see that a leap second was inserted at about 0100! Why bizarre? Because although I had turned on the LI bit via ntptime/adjtimex I had also cleared it almost immediately since I was testing possibilities not implementation. Subsequent checks seemed to show that the LI was clear in the status. Therefore I was not expecting any Leap Second activity. So, returning to one of my original post questions, am I seeing the effect of Linux/NTP history here? Or is it, regretfully, just plain stupidity on my part somewhere? And even if it is stupidity, please can someone explain (via personal email if necessary) exactly how and why my stupidity occurred? Phil. # ntptime commands and results $ /usr/sbin/ntptime -r ntp_gettime() returns code 1 (INS) time d353c908.34ae7000 Tue, May 8 2012 17:32:08.205, (.205787), maximum error 383107 us, estimated error 1037 us ntptime=d353c908.34ae7000 unixtime=4fa94a88.205787 Tue May 8 17:32:08 2012 ntp_adjtime() returns code 1 (INS) modes 0x0 (), offset 1227.000 us, frequency 57.619 ppm, interval 1 s, maximum error 383107 us, estimated error 1037 us, status 0x1 (PLL), time constant 6, precision 1.000 us, tolerance 512 ppm, $ sudo /usr/sbin/ntptime -s 17 ntp_gettime() returns code 1 (INS) time d353c930.a1626000 Tue, May 8 2012 17:32:48.630, (.630407), maximum error 403587 us, estimated error 1037 us ntp_adjtime() returns code 1 (INS) modes 0x10 (STATUS), offset 1215.000 us, frequency 57.619 ppm, interval 1 s, maximum error 403587 us, estimated error 1037 us, status 0x11 (PLL,INS), time constant 6, precision 1.000 us, tolerance 512 ppm, $ /usr/sbin/ntptime -r ntp_gettime() returns code 1 (INS) time d353c938.fd23d000 Tue, May 8 2012 17:32:56.988, (.988828), maximum error 407683 us, estimated error 1037 us ntptime=d353c938.fd23d000 unixtime=4fa94ab8.988828 Tue May 8 17:32:56 2012 ntp_adjtime() returns code 1 (INS) modes 0x0 (), offset 1213.000 us, frequency 57.619 ppm, interval 1 s, maximum error 407683 us, estimated error 1037 us, status 0x11 (PLL,INS), time constant 6, precision 1.000 us, tolerance 512 ppm, $ sudo /usr/sbin/ntptime -s 1 ntp_gettime() returns code 1 (INS) time d353c95c.0a4e2000 Tue, May 8 2012 17:33:32.040, (.040255), maximum error 426115 us, estimated error 1037 us ntp_adjtime() returns code 1 (INS) modes 0x10 (STATUS), offset 1202.000 us, frequency 57.619 ppm, interval 1 s, maximum error 426115 us, estimated error 1037 us, status 0x1 (PLL), time constant 6, precision 1.000 us, tolerance 512 ppm, # Other NTP info checked ntpdc> sysinfo system peer: xx.ipaccess.com system peer mode: client leap indicator: 00 stratum: 3 precision:-20 root distance:0.00099 s root dispersion: 0.06125 s reference ID: [172.28.0.133] reference time: d353ec61.5dfe7016 Tue, May 8 2012 20:02:57.367 system flags: auth monitor ntp kernel stats jitter: 0.000351 s stability:0.000 ppm broadcastdelay: 0.003998 s authdelay:0.00 s ntpq> readvar assID=0 status=06f4 leap_none, sync_ntp, 15 events, event_peer/strat_chg, version="ntpd 4.2.2p1@1.1570-o Sat Dec 19 00:58:16 UTC 2009 (1)", processor="i686", system="Linux/2.6.18-128.el5", leap=00, stratum=3, precision=-20, rootdelay=1.005, rootdispersion=65.252, peer=39032, refid=172.28.0.133, reftime=d353ec61.5dfe7016 Tue, May 8 2012 20:02:57.367, poll=10, clock=d353f418.44749276 Tue, May 8 2012 20:35:52.267, state=4, offset=0.767, frequency=57.638, jitter=0.425, noise=0.778, stability=0.023, tai=0 # Final check before leaving $ /usr/sbin/ntptime -r ntp_gettime() returns code 1 (INS) time d353ff78.0b062000 Tue, May 8 2012 21:24:24.043, (.043062), maximum error 981562 us, estimated error 715 us ntptime=d353ff78.b062000 unixtime=4fa980f8.043062 Tue May 8 21:24:24 2012 ntp_adjtime() returns code 1 (INS) modes 0x0 (), offset 16.000 us, frequency 57.638 ppm, interval 1 s, maximum error 981562 us, estimated error 715 us, status 0x1 (PLL), time constant 6, precision 1.000 us, tolerance 512 ppm, # /var/log/messages (syslog) extracts earlier today 9 May May 8 21:28:23 rhel006 ntpd[2531]: synchronized to 1
Re: [ntp:questions] Leap Second testing
Dave Thanks for the reply. I have now checked what has happened even more carefully and I conclude the problem originated with the installation of the adjtimex program/RPM. It would seem I (or someone else not sure) ran adjtimex -status to set the leap indicator after it was installed (probably me but my history setting ain't that good). Once this was done, then ntptime indicates that it has been set even if the current status shows it is not. In my opinion this is at best fallacious if not a bug. If the Leap indicator is cleared then I would not expect it to be remembered somewhere else why bother clearing it and providing the facilities to clear it. Therefore my testing scenario will have to ensure that LI has not been set at any point. I assume from your comments both in response to this post and earlier ones that LI can only be propagated by an upstream NTP server (assuming here that the client is not a stratum 1 server of course) to the downstream client on the day that a Leap Second should be implemented (and by day I understand this to be the UTC day which could be a whole can of worms in itself when people think of local time and when this can occur). If this is correct, then using ntptime -r once can check that a LI has not already been seen (since that will show a return status of 1 (INS) while the status will show as 17 (0x0011) (PLL,INS) typically. If we try to cancel it then the results will show return status of 1 (INS) but the status as 1 (PLL). It will be important for me to detect this (even if the consensus of NTP gurus is it would not occur and is not a problem) since I might need to take action that stops the possibility of the Linux kernel bug occurring. I think it might well be important in real world scenarios where an incorrect deployment may have triggered an incorrect LI to downstream clients. There should be a way to clear this (and ntptime -s clearly allows this) but not completely hence leading to an incorrect adding of a leap second and possibly in older Linux kernels a system crash when logging the leap second event. Phil -Original Message- From: Dave Hart [mailto:h...@ntp.org] Sent: 09 May 2012 15:24 To: Phil Fisher Cc: questions@lists.ntp.org Subject: Re: [ntp:questions] Leap Second testing On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 8:44 AM, Phil Fisher wrote: > I was using ntptime to set the status bits for a system running a server > (Centos 5, ntpd 4.2.2p1). Tis allowed me to set the LI indicator and > apparently to clear it. The output from ntptime is shown at the end of this > message. When I look at the syslog (/var/log/messages) I see what > seems to be a +1 second jump at about 0200 earlier today -- my system > runs BST (== GMT+1/UTC+1). Even more bizarre I see that a leap > second was inserted at about 0100! > > Why bizarre? Because although I had turned on the LI bit via > ntptime/adjtimex I had also cleared it almost immediately since I was > testing possibilities not implementation. Subsequent checks seemed > to show that the LI was clear in the status. Therefore I was not expecting > any Leap Second activity. It appears there are two ways a pending leap insertion is indicated by ntp_gettime/ntp_adjtime. You were paying attention to the status word 0x10 bit. The other way is the return value of the function. Notice even your last ntptime invocation reported (INS) regarding the return values from ntp_gettime and ntp_adjtime. No, I don't know why the two are not in sync. I'm not particularly worried about it, either, unless it causes a real-world problem. Cheers, Dave Hart This message contains confidential information and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete the message immediately. ip.access Ltd, registration number 3400157, Building 2020, Cambourne Business Park, Cambourne, Cambridge CB23 6DW, United Kingdom ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] NTP and Leap Second testing (update)
NTP gurus (and especially Dave Hart who was kind enough to correspond previously) Have been doing (finally) some testing with the aid of VM systems. I took DH advice and used one at ntp 4.2.6 (not the most recent admittedly) as the server and the client based on our RHEL 4.3 + odd bits that has ntpd 4.2.0a@1.1190-r on it. I used the leap-seconds file from the usual place to "prime" the server and set the local date and time to 30 June 2012 2350 UTC on both systems. At this point NTP was off. Having enabled ntpd I watched the usual traffic and start up and was able to see the LI being passed to the client. However, since it took about 8 or so minutes for the client to sync up, it did not note the need to insert a leap second until past midnight. Meanwhile the server issued the leap second inserted message as expected at UTC. What was puzzling was that when the time reached 1 July 2012, on the client the leap second was inserted as seen from the following line in syslog: Jul 2 00:59:59 lsntpclient kernel: Clock: inserting leap second 23:59:60 UTC Now, having looked at the kernel code, I understand why this can occur (the kernel code in 2.6.9 only checks for end of day) but I am more concerned about why it is propagated into the second day at all. Why is the LI from ntpd not cleared once the insertion time is passed? I have some extra info and logs if that is of interest from ntptime, ntpdc -c kerninfo and ntpq -c readvar should that be of interest. Phil. -- Phil Fisher| BSC Platform Engineer (Linux) This message contains confidential information and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete the message immediately. ip.access Ltd, registration number 3400157, Building 2020, Cambourne Business Park, Cambourne, Cambridge CB23 6DW, United Kingdom ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] Need help with Linux cross-compile build issue
Hello,
I am upgrading NTP from 4.2.8p8 to 4.2.8p10 in Linux.
Build environment, cross-compiling to ultimately run in a Linux PowerPC
environment .
I downloaded the ntp-4.2.8p10.tar.gz file and, within my build source tree,
Uncompressed and untar’d it. As is, it configured and built successfully using
the following
Configure options with LDFLAGS and CPPFLAGS defined also.
LDFLAGS="-L$(TOPDIR)/apps/lib" \
CPPFLAGS="-D$(PROJECT) -I ../../include" \
../configure --host=powerpc-linux-uclibc \
--build=i686-pc-linux-gnu --prefix=/usr \
--without-sntp --without-doc --with-crypto --with-yielding-select=yes \
--with-openssl-libdir=../../lib/ \
--with-openssl-incdir=../../include/openssl/ \
--disable-all-clocks --disable-parse-clocks --enable-gcc-hardening=no
But, when I commit the source to our source control system (the entire source
tree
has to be retrievable and buildable from there), and try to build again, the
‘make’
complains that it needs to regenerate some files and cannot find ‘aclocal’ for
example
(which is true, I do not have and cannot use due to other restrictions).
make -C mkbuild all
make[3]: Entering directory ‘/ntp-4.2.8p10/mkbuild'
CDPATH="${ZSH_VERSION+.}:" && cd .. && /bin/sh
/ntp-4.2.8p10/sntp/libevent/build-aux/missing aclocal-1.15 -I sntp/m4 -I
sntp/libevent/m4 -I sntp/libopts/m4
/ntp-4.2.8p10/sntp/libevent/build-aux/missing : line 81: aclocal-1.15:
command not found
WARNING: 'aclocal-1.15' is missing on your system.
You should only need it if you modified 'acinclude.m4' or
'configure.ac' or m4 files included by 'configure.ac'.
The 'aclocal' program is part of the GNU Automake package:
< http://www.gnu.org/software/automake >
It also requires GNU Autoconf, GNU m4 and Perl in order to run:
< http://www.gnu.org/software/autoconf >
< http://www.gnu.org/software/m4/ >
< http://www.perl.org/ >
make[3]: *** [../aclocal.m4] Error 127
When the build works (before commit to source control) and original timestamps
on all files, I don’t see the command in bold above,
I see this (in bold below) as the first thing done after the ‘make all’ starts.
make -C mkbuild all
make[3]: Entering directory ‘/ntp-4.2.8p10/mkbuild'
Compiling with GCC now generates lots of new warnings.
Don't be concerned. They're just warnings.
Don't send bug reports about the warnings, either.
Feel free to send patches that fix these warnings, though.
cd ../html && \
../scripts/build/checkHtmlFileDates
cd .. && \
./scripts/build/checkChangeLog
make all-recursive
I believe this may be a timestamp issue – and I actually saw another post with
a similar problem, its solution was posted
as “The short version is that cloning from git does not preserve create
timestamps, so a rebuild is triggered.
Running autoconf like you have done will fix this issue. I have also found
'touch *' to get around the issue as well.”
I tried the ‘touch *’ offered solution but that didn’t seem to work for me. Why
is it trying to build files under ‘sntp’ when
I specifically gave the “—without-sntp” flag to the configure command? Is that
part of the problem?
I need to solve this without the use of the GNU Automake package. Is there
something in the configure file or any Makefiles
To be commented out or changed that would prevent the
“CDPATH=….” step/command (above) from happening (assuming that’s causing the
problem)?
To be clear, I did not have these issues with 4.2.8p8, even though I followed
the same configure and build steps.
The only change for p10 was the addition of the –enable-gcc-hardening configure
directive. Any help is greatly appreciated, thanks.
Phil Bellino
Principal Software Engineer | MRV Communications Inc.
300 Apollo Drive | Chelmsford, MA 01824
Phone: 978-674-6870 | Fax: 978-674-6799
www.mrv.com
MRV Communications is a global supplier of packet and optical solutions that
power the world’s largest networks. Our products combine innovative hardware
with intelligent software to make networks smarter, faster and more efficient.
The contents of this message, together with any attachments, are intended only
for the use of the person(s) to whom they are addressed and may contain
confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended
recipient, immediately advise the sender, delete this message and any
attachments and note that any distribution, or copying of this message, or any
attachment, is prohibited.
MRV Communications is a global supplier of packet and optical solutions that
power the world’s largest networks. Our products combine innovative hardware
with intelligent software to make networks smarter, faster and more efficient.
The contents of this message, to
[ntp:questions] client listening interface
I have a Windows 2000 Server system that has two IP address configured - one a routeable address, the other is 192.168.2.x for communication with internal devices. My time source requires communication outside the local environment, but it would appear that the server randomly decides to only try to synch via the 192.168 interface, and failing. I wandered through the support.ntp.org site, and found reference to a directive "listen-on" being discussed. Is something resembling that functionality available in 4.2.4p5, or is the current behavior of "all interfaces" my only current option? Thanks! Phil ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] client listening interface
Danny - Yes, that is correct. I didn't see the query-on so was yapping about listen-on so you'd have a point of reference. Thanks! Phil - Original Message - From: Danny Mayer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 12/05/2008 02:56 PM EST To: Phil Newlon Cc: questions@lists.ntp.org Subject: Re: [ntp:questions] client listening interface [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I have a Windows 2000 Server system that has two IP address configured - > one a routeable address, the other is 192.168.2.x for communication with > internal devices. My time source requires communication outside the local > environment, but it would appear that the server randomly decides to only > try to synch via the 192.168 interface, and failing. I wandered through > the support.ntp.org site, and found reference to a directive "listen-on" > being discussed. Is something resembling that functionality available in > 4.2.4p5, or is the current behavior of "all interfaces" my only current > option? > > Thanks! > > Phil What you require is the query-on option. I haven't had time to roll it into a release yet. You need outbound queries to go on the routeable address, correct? listen-on is to do with addresses/interfaces that it will accept requests on. Danny ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Sending ntpd logs to syslog
Along with what Martin said, you could use syslog-ng to get the data to multiple destinations, and tweak the way it looks when it gets there. > Appearingly you have configured an alternate log file in your /etc/ntp.conf > file, e.g.: logfile /var/log/ntp.log > If you comment that line out and restart ntpd then all log messages from > ntpd go to the syslog (only). > > I have a some test servers that are showing drift errors. > > I > > noticed that the drift errors are only going to /var/log/ntp.log and not > > to > > syslog. I would like for the logs to go to a file with the following > > format ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] NTP sever on an isolated Network
> All right, but what is LVC? Where I'll connect it in my computer? Name: GPS 18x LVC, 5m Manufacturer: Garmin USA Manufacturer Part Number: 010-00321-36 http://time.qnan.org/ ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] ntp peer association in VLAN query
Danny - It sounds like this is the same behavior that I asked about a few weeks ago, I think. I have a Windows machine with two IP addresses, acting as an NTP time source for devices on one of the two networks. Time synch requests come in from the clients on network A, and the response from the Windows machine is out the interface on network B. RE: "query-on" Danny wrote: What you require is the query-on option. I haven't had time to roll it into a release yet. You need outbound queries to go on the routeable address, correct? Phil Danny Mayer To Sent by: kiran shirol questions-bounces +phil.newlon=wend cc ysarbys@lists questions@lists.ntp.org .ntp.org Subject Re: [ntp:questions] ntp peer association in VLAN query 01/19/2009 11:04 AM Please respond to ma...@ntp.isc.org kiran shirol wrote: > My switch has configured for peering with the following switches > > ntp peer 101.1.1.2 > ntp peer 101.2.2.2 > ntp peer 102.1.1.2 > > Vlan has the following configuration: > ip address 10.1.1.1/24 > ip address 20.1.1.1/24 secondary > > Peer sends the NTP message 20.1.1.2(Out-Interface) -> 20.1.1.1(VLANs secondary IP) > The response comes as 10.1.1.1(VLANs Primary IP) -> 20.1.1.2 > That means that the VLAN is using the wrong address to reply to the message. NTP will see that it does not match the going address and will discard the message. That's correct behavior. You need to figure out why the packet is coming back with the incorrect address. i suspect the VLAN but I cannot be sure. Danny > Traces: > 2008-12-20 00:01:40.522776 20.1.1.2 -> 20.1.1.1 NTP NTP symmetric active > 2008-12-20 00:01:42.548166 10.1.1.1 -> 20.1.1.2 NTP NTP symmetric passive ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] ntpd syncs to NMEA message but not PPS
Well, I've managed to wind myself completely up in my huggies I built a nice little 18x LVC setup this weekend, based on the circuit at time.qnan,org. I successfully get data from the GPS (9600 baud) and a PPS signal. I tried using the gpsd driver and am having no luck with it whatsoever. So, I have to ask at this point, what exactly did you mean "just use the shmpps set of routines to set up pps using the shm refclock"? I am running Fedora 8 Linux, for what that might be worth Thanks for any assistance you can provide! Phil Debug output from gpsd. Seems to be communicating OK, but loops with "reconfiguring for garmin serial" gpsd: <= GPS: $GPRMC,192734,A,4006.0064,N,08306.3234,W,000.0,203.8,260109,006.5,W,D*19^M gpsd: GPRMC starts a reporting cycle. gpsd: GPRMC sets mode 2 gpsd: ntpshm_put: Clock: 1232998054 @ 1232998054.745896 gpsd: <= GPS: $GPGGA,192734,4006.0064,N,08306.3234,W,2,07,2.4,345.2,M,-32.8,M,,*77^M gpsd: GPGGA sets status 2 and mode 3 (changed) gpsd: <= GPS: $GPGSA,A,3,,,10,,15,,21,24,26,29,30,,4.7,2.4,4.1*3E^M, gpsd: GPGSA sets mode 3 gpsd: <= GPS: $GPGSV,3,1,11,02,34,096,18,05,03,217,26,10,64,040,25,12,03,207,18*72^M gpsd: Partial satellite data (1 of 3). gpsd: <= GPS: $GPGSV,3,2,11,15,36,171,40,18,02,239,33,21,16,293,21,24,58,314,24*7D^M gpsd: Partial satellite data (2 of 3). gpsd: <= GPS: $GPGSV,3,3,11,26,45,149,30,29,60,287,25,30,12,238,32*4C^M gpsd: Satellite data OK (3 of 3)., gpsd: <= GPS: $PGRMC,A,,100,,A,,1,2,1,30*4B^M gpsd: GPRMC sets mode 0, gpsd: found $PGRMC,. gpsd: switch_driver(Garmin Serial) called... gpsd: Reconfiguring for Garmin Serial... gpsd: => GPS: $PGRMC,A,,100,,A,,1,2,1,30*4B\x0d After running for about the last hour, this is what I continue to see on the [r...@splunk /root]# ntpq -p remote refid st t when poll reach delay offset jitter == xSHM(0) .GPS0. 0 l1 16 3770.000 -667.98 42.005 SHM(1) .PPS.0 l- 1600.0000.000 0.002 x10.255.213.232 128.4.40.12 3 u 31 64 3770.186 -1.647 0.429 [r...@splunk /root]# cat /etc/ntp.conf driftfile /var/lib/ntp/drift server 127.127.28.0 minpoll 4 fudge 127.127.28.0 time1 0.000 refid GPS0 server 127.127.28.1 minpoll 4 prefer fudge 127.127.28.1 refid PPS server ntp.wendysi.com iburst $GPRMC,193313,A,4006.0050,N,08306.3246,W,000.0,203.8,260109,006.5,W,D*1B $GPGGA,193313,4006.0050,N,08306.3246,W,2,05,2.2,344.7,M,-32.8,M,,*75 $GPGSA,A,3,,,10,15,,24,29,30,4.0,2.2,3.3*3D, $GPGSV,3,1,11,02,33,098,34,05,02,215,14,10,62,041,18,15,38,170,38*70 $GPGSV,3,2,11,18,04,241,36,24,60,317,28,29,62,282,27,30,11,236,26*7A $GPGSV,3,3,11,07,01,042,00,08,03,077,00,12,01,206,00*44, > You can just use something like gpsd to use the shm hardware clock to run the pps. > I would just use the shmpps set of routines to set up pps using the shm refclock. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] Learnings: FC8 Linux ntpd syncs to NMEA message but not PPS
I have now managed, with the patient help from Bill U., to get my Linux NTP system running using the PPS signal from a Garmin 18x LVC. I thought I would share what I had to do to make it all work. * References: http://time.qnan.org/ http://time.qnan.org/shmpps.tar http://www.david-taylor.myby.co.uk/ntp/FreeBSD-GPS-PPS.htm http://fixunix.com/ntp/67883-freebsd-garmin-gps-18-lvc.html * What's it running on - Dell Optiplex 740 running Fedora Core 8 - ntpd 4.2.4p2 - Garmin 18x LVC, powered off USB port, communicating on /dev/ttyS0 * - I built the circuit as shown on the time.qnan.org site. - I tried to use gpsd but that didn't work. I got NMEA to work but not PPS. - I tried shmpps but it didn't work either, so I started digging deeper. - Bill U. sent me a change to add to the shm_spl2.c file which would tell me if the driver was "seeing" data from my GPS. Nope. - I checked my circuit board over and over, no problems seen there. - I finally checked the cable that I had between the circuit board and the NTP server - crap, there was no connection between PIN 1! Turns out only seven of the nine pins had connections through my cable. Weird - I made my own cable with crimp on terminators and some ribbon cable. - Check it out, PPS data! * NOTABLES: - Don't blindly trust your cable! Just because it works for some things doesn't mean it will work for you here. As Bill noted, lots of serial cables are made with only pins 2 and 3 in mind to be concerned about - Watch your syslog file! It will tell you interesting things like "ntpd can't find /dev/gps0" - so you get to add a symbolic link between /dev/ttyXX to /dev/gps0. - If you have NMEA output from the GPS in your ntp.conf file (127.127.20.0), expect it to have "reach 0" reported when you finally get PPS (127.127.28.0) working. You can have NMEA or PPS from your serial input, you just can't have both at the same time from the same GPS on the same port. - With that said, be sure to have a remotely well clocked device to do an initial synch to before starting the shmpps driver. (See start.sh and shmpps scripts in ths shmpps tar file.) - See my circuit board here: http://www.toosan.com/shared/gps * CONTENTS of ntp.conf driftfile /var/lib/ntp/drift statistics clockstats loopstats peerstats statsdir /var/log/ntp/ filegen peerstats file peers type day link enable filegen loopstats file loops type day link enable server 127.127.20.0 server ntp.wendysi.com iburst server 127.127.28.0 minpoll 4 prefer fudge 127.127.28.0 refid PPS flag3 1 * OUTPUT FROM ntpq -p remote refid st t when poll reach delay offset jitter == GPS_NMEA(0) .GPS.0 l- 6400.0000.000 0.001 10.255.213.232 10.255.231.148 2 u 63 64 3770.1732.336 0.398 *SHM(0) .PPS.0 l6 16 3770.0000.005 0.002 * DEBUG output from shm_spl2 (shmpps) range:4-11 sys:1233259966/84 ref:1233259967/0 prec: -17 range:0-7 sys:1233259980/83 ref:1233259981/0 prec: -17 range:2-9 sys:1233259994/84 ref:1233259995/0 prec: -16 range:3-10 sys:1233260008/83 ref:1233260009/0 prec: -16 ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] CDMA time server (was: "best" synchronization possible over the network)
I've seen mention of both the EndRun product and the Beagle product. As far as I can tell, the Beagle is a Windows-only device. Has anyone done any work with the MultiTech CDMA modem and *nix? (OK, Linux, I admit it :-) Phil A CDMA cell phone base station broadcasts a "reference signal" that supplies the time. You cam buy a receiver for this signal which will supply you with time derived from GPS. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] http://www.ntp.org/ => a blank page?
Blank for me too. "Richard B. Gilbert" Sent by: cc questions-bounces +phil.newlon=wend Subject ysarbys@lists Re: [ntp:questions] .ntp.org http://www.ntp.org/ => a blank page? 03/03/2009 08:02 AM Please respond to rgilber...@comcas t.net David J Taylor wrote: > http://www.ntp.org/ => a blank page in both Firefox and Internet Explorer > > Is this correct? It works for me! ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] demonstrate traceability to UTC
Until it gets too far afield, wouldn't this be an appropriate discussion for the forum? I have been asked the same question (sort of) before and could only give a rudimentary response based on a lot of my own assumptions. Phil >I would be happy to discuss these issues in this forum or off-line. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Quoting Practices (Was: Re: Test internal clock)
I love the passion that people feel for the computing industry in general, and two of my favorite topics in particular: smtp and ntp. I am a relative newbie to usenet, having only been participating since 1987. I have heard the top-post, bottom-post, and how to quote discussion many times in the past 20 years. I didn't used to care much about it; I can figure out the message well enough either way. In the last couple years though, I have come to have an opinion and feel compelled to share it only as food for thought. I truly hope to not offend anyone, just enlighten! I now use a handheld for both regular 8-5 work and my personal business. One is a blackberry, the other a treo. I can keep up with all my business while I travel, so that I don't have as much to catch up on when I am back in the office. Well quoted, top-posted messages are the easiest for me to deal with on a handheld. I submit that as time goes by, the old conventions will need to change a little as more and more people work from a handheld. I can swallow either top or bottom post, really, but have great appreciation for a well-quoted message that I don't have to scroll up and down in to follow the quoting. In-line quoting is the worst to handle because line wraps are not pretty on a handheld. Thanks for listening, and for all the excellent content provided in this forum. Phil ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
