Re: [ntp:questions] custom ntp PPS driver
> He tells me that from what he can find, a shared memory interface > between the source and ntpd is simpler to implement. What we are > unclear of at present is who "owns" the shared memory segment. I > would speculate that the sender should create and own the segment as > the "server" of the data, and that ntpd creating and owning the > segment it reads timestamp data from would be an anti-pattern. ntpd creates the segment. Anyone with enough rights can then write to it, if required. The other way around may also work but make sure it has the correct size and access rights. Personally I would ntpd create it and then check yourself if at least the size of it is what you expect. Please note that I'm not an authoritative source. I did wrote a few applictions that interface with ntpd that way though. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] dispersion and precision
Hi, If an NTP server has no knowledge of the dispersion and precision of the time source, what should it set in those fields when serving time to clients? 0? Folkert van Heusden -- ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] create charts
These days one uses grafana with e.g. influxdb. On Sat, Aug 22, 2020 at 11:58:34PM +0200, Marco Marongiu wrote: > Many years ago I used rrdtool to plot graphs from munin. Pretty sure there > is more modern stuff that is way better. Anyway, for what is worth: > https://syslog.me/2011/06/10/using-rrdgraph-for-better-ntp-monitoring/ > > I agree with David though: without knowing what information you get from > the servers, how you get it, and what you want to represent, it's really > difficult to help. > > Ciao > -- bronto > > > Il giorno ven 21 ago 2020 alle ore 18:50 William Unruh > ha scritto: > > > On 2020-08-21, David Woolley wrote: > > > On 21/08/2020 11:39, thimoo...@gmail.com wrote: > > >> I have a question. how do you make a graph of your ntp server and is > > that possible > > > > > > What parameter do you want to represent? Remember that the actual error > > > from true time is never known, because, if it could be known, it could > > > be made to be zero. > > > > He of course has not told us what he wants to graph, or what his problem > > is in trying to do so. He cannot "make a graph of your server", since > > about the only thing accessible to him is time reported by the server > > Without some other time standard (gpstime, his own computer, some other > > server,etc) there is > > nothing to plot. > > > > ___ > > questions mailing list > > questions@lists.ntp.org > > http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions > > > ___ > questions mailing list > questions@lists.ntp.org > http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions Folkert van Heusden -- Winnen in de staatsloterij? Check htp://vanheusden.com/sl.php voor alle staatsloterij-uitslag statistieken denkbaar en zelfs ook een paar win-tips! -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] trying to get broadcast to work
> > I'm trying to get broadcasts to work. > > > client 192.168.64.150 > > - > > driftfile /var/lib/ntp/ntp.drift > > > > restrict -4 default kod notrap nomodify nopeer > > restrict -6 default kod notrap nomodify nopeer > > > > restrict 127.0.0.1 > > restrict ::1 > > > > disable auth > > broadcastclient > > > So I wonder: what am I doing wrong? what could be the cause? > > I think you need to remove the nopeer restriction on the client, or > enable authentication (server and client sharing a symmetric key). That's the one! Thanks a lot! ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] trying to get broadcast to work
Hi, I'm trying to get broadcasts to work. Situation: stratum 1 server 192.168.64.80 -- driftfile /var/lib/ntp/ntp.drift server ntp.nmi.nl prefer peer timekast2 iburst prefer peer timekast3 iburst prefer peer timekast4 iburst prefer server 127.127.22.0 minpoll 4 maxpoll 4 flag2 1 fudge 127.127.22.0 refid PPS restrict -4 default kod notrap nomodify nopeer restrict -6 default kod notrap nomodify nopeer restrict 127.0.0.1 restrict ::1 disable auth broadcastclient broadcast 192.168.64.255 broadcast 224.0.1.1 client 192.168.64.150 - driftfile /var/lib/ntp/ntp.drift restrict -4 default kod notrap nomodify nopeer restrict -6 default kod notrap nomodify nopeer restrict 127.0.0.1 restrict ::1 disable auth broadcastclient Resulting in: received at client: 21:40:17.604135 IP 192.168.64.80.123 > 192.168.64.255.123: NTPv4, Broadcast, length 48 client ntpq -c pe -n: root@bachinabox:/home/folkert# ntpq -c pe -n No association ID's returned So I wonder: what am I doing wrong? what could be the cause? Folkert van Heusden -- ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] implementing a simple ntp server: offset jumps
Hi,
For fun I'm implementing a simple ntp-server which gets its time from a
gps with pps.
Now this works somewhat: most of the time the offset is pretty low
compared to a system with a real ntp implementation but sometimes the
offset is almost a second, as if something wraps.
I've been staring for hours at the code and can't find the bug. Maybe
you guys want to look?
void processNtpPackets(word targetPort, byte opponentIp[4], uint16_t
opponentPort, const uint8_t *data, word len) {
// timestamp from when the packet was received
uint64_t requestReceiveAtServer = get_ntp_ts();
uint8_t ntp_send_buffer[48];
memcpy(ntp_send_buffer, data, sizeof ntp_send_buffer);
// https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc958
// several flags
ntp_send_buffer[0] = ((hasFix ? 0 : 3) << 6) | (4 << 3) | (4 << 0);
// type
// 1 = primary reference (e.g. radio clock)
ntp_send_buffer[1] = 1;
// poll
ntp_send_buffer[2] = 1;
// precision
ntp_send_buffer[3] = -17; // 8us
// root delay
ntp_send_buffer[4] = ntp_send_buffer[5] = ntp_send_buffer[6] =
ntp_send_buffer[7] = 0;
// root dispersion
ntp_send_buffer[8] = ntp_send_buffer[9] = ntp_send_buffer[10] =
ntp_send_buffer[11] = 0;
// reference clock identifier
memcpy(_send_buffer[12], "aGPS", 4);
// 16:8 reference
// last timestamp received from gps
// ** if I use the real value for that (which can be almost a
// ** second old), then ntpdate complains that the server is
// ** not suitable for sync
put_uint64_t(_send_buffer[16], get_ntp_ts());
// 24:8 originate: copy of transmit from client
// copy from received packet
memcpy(_send_buffer[24], [40], 8);
// 32:8 receive
// when the request was received
put_uint64_t(_send_buffer[32], requestReceiveAtServer);
// 40:8 transmit
// when we send the reply
put_uint64_t(_send_buffer[40], get_ntp_ts());
sendPacket(ntp_send_buffer);
}
What I see is:
server 10.42.46.45, stratum 1, offset -0.005966, delay 0.02910
server 10.42.46.45, stratum 1, offset -0.006345, delay 0.02829
server 10.42.46.45, stratum 1, offset -0.006417, delay 0.02852
server 10.42.46.45, stratum 1, offset 0.993544, delay 0.02864
server 10.42.46.45, stratum 1, offset 0.993544, delay 0.02859
server 10.42.46.45, stratum 1, offset 0.993360, delay 0.02901
server 10.42.46.45, stratum 1, offset -0.006317, delay 0.02835
server 10.42.46.45, stratum 1, offset -0.006236, delay 0.02826
server 10.42.46.45, stratum 1, offset -0.005912, delay 0.02901
server 10.42.46.45, stratum 1, offset -0.006384, delay 0.02855
server 10.42.46.45, stratum 1, offset 0.993440, delay 0.02892
server 10.42.46.45, stratum 1, offset 0.993831, delay 0.02933
...
and so on
and ntpdate with debug:
folkert@voga:~/Projects/fampler/trunk$ /usr/sbin/ntpdate -dv -q
10.42.46.45
27 Nov 00:25:49 ntpdate[27205]: ntpdate 4.2.8p8@1.3265-o Tue Oct 18
19:47:01 UTC 2016 (1)
transmit(10.42.46.45)
receive(10.42.46.45)
transmit(10.42.46.45)
receive(10.42.46.45)
transmit(10.42.46.45)
receive(10.42.46.45)
transmit(10.42.46.45)
receive(10.42.46.45)
server 10.42.46.45, port 123
stratum 1, precision -17, leap 00, trust 000
refid [aGPS], delay 0.02905, dispersion 0.02252
transmitted 4, in filter 4
reference time:dbe49883.7854c6a8 Sun, Nov 27 2016 0:25:55.470
originate timestamp: dbe49883.785626fb Sun, Nov 27 2016 0:25:55.470
transmit timestamp: dbe49883.656c48ed Sun, Nov 27 2016 0:25:55.396
filter delay: 0.02905 0.11633 0.05977 0.10786
0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
filter offset: -0.00580 0.037552 0.009143 0.032719
0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00
delay 0.02905, dispersion 0.02252
offset -0.005805
27 Nov 00:25:55 ntpdate[27205]: adjust time server 10.42.46.45 offset
-0.005805 sec
folkert@voga:~/Projects/fampler/trunk$ /usr/sbin/ntpdate -dv -q
10.42.46.45
27 Nov 00:25:56 ntpdate[27224]: ntpdate 4.2.8p8@1.3265-o Tue Oct 18
19:47:01 UTC 2016 (1)
transmit(10.42.46.45)
receive(10.42.46.45)
transmit(10.42.46.45)
receive(10.42.46.45)
transmit(10.42.46.45)
receive(10.42.46.45)
transmit(10.42.46.45)
receive(10.42.46.45)
server 10.42.46.45, port 123
stratum 1, precision -17, leap 00, trust 000
refid [aGPS], delay 0.02940, dispersion 0.01137
transmitted 4, in filter 4
reference time:dbe4988b.d7f3d68a Sun, Nov 27 2016 0:26:03.843
originate timestamp: dbe4988b.d7f536dd Sun, Nov 27 2016 0:26:03.843
transmit timestamp: dbe4988a.cbd9a868 Sun, Nov 27 2016 0:26:02.796
filter delay: 0.02940 0.08627 0.04507 0.08044
0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
filter offset: 0.994249 1.022678 0.991374 1.019840
0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00
delay 0.02940, dispersion 0.01137
offset 0.994249
27 Nov 00:26:02 ntpdate[27224]: step time server 10.42.46.45 offset
0.994249 sec
Folkert van Heusden
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ques
[ntp:questions] SHM driver as a PPS source
Hi, How can I tell NTPd that an SHM time source is actually a PPS and that it thus should combine it with some other sources? (an '*' + 'o' combination so to say) Folkert van Heusden -- -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] gps outlier
Hi, I have 5 rpis with 3 adafruit gpses, some glonas and a venus gps; they all agree with each other about when a second starts. Now I added a garmin 18x lvc (via a level shifter) and even after an hour it shows an offset of around -0.114ms upto -0.123ms (it jumps), jitter of 12us. What can be the cause of this strange offset? The jitter I can understand as I use the userspace tool for interfacing it to ntp. Folkert van Heusden -- ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] double pps device
Hi, Hoping that this is the right list for this question. Before I used my rpi-gpio-ntpd program. As I would like better latency values, I'm going to try to use the kernel pps interface. This is all on a raspberry pi. Now I hit my head on the following. When my system is running no ntpd and no gpsd, there is a /dev/pps0 device. This is strange. In fact, that's the one seeing timestamp updates in the assert-file under /sys. I verified that no program has /dev/ttyAMA0 open (serial port on the rpi). If I now start gpsd, then suddenly a /dev/pps1 appears. This device is NOT the real pps device. Also the timestamp of the assert-file does not change for pps1. gpsd is also opening that file. Result of course is that things are not keeping track of correct time. Do you have any idea what could be the cause? I updated cmdline.txt, inittab, systemd, etc etc to not use the serial port and none is (apart from gpsd) which I verified with lsof root@timekast2:~# lsof -n | grep ttyAMA0 root@timekast2:~# lsof -n | grep pps root@timekast2:~# ls -l /dev/pps* crw--- 1 root root 243, 0 Nov 12 09:58 /dev/pps0 root@timekast2:~# cat /sys/class/pps/pps0/assert 1478958826.004420082#17468 root@timekast2:~# cat /sys/class/pps/pps1/assert cat: /sys/class/pps/pps1/assert: No such file or directory root@timekast1:~# /etc/init.d/gpsd start [ ok ] Starting gpsd (via systemctl): gpsd.service. root@timekast1:~# ps -deaf | grep gpsd gpsd 3069 1 1 14:26 ?00:00:38 /usr/sbin/gpsd -N -G -n /dev/ttyAMA0 root 3491 3377 0 14:59 pts/200:00:00 grep gpsd root@timekast1:~# ls -l /dev/pps* crw--- 1 root root 243, 0 Nov 12 09:58 /dev/pps0 crw--- 1 root root 243, 1 Nov 12 14:26 /dev/pps1 root@timekast1:~# lsof -n | grep gpsd | grep pps gpsd 3069gpsd8u CHR 243,1 0t0 15280 /dev/pps1 gpsd 3069 3072 gpsd8u CHR 243,1 0t0 15280 /dev/pps1 root@timekast1:~# cat /sys/class/pps/pps1/assert 0.0#0 root@timekast1:~# Folkert van Heusden -- -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] measuring os latency for pps
Hi, Not sure if it is interesting for you guys but I wrote a simple program for e.g. Linux (or any other system with the pps api implemented) that listens on a pps source waiting for a pulse and then toggles a gpio pin. That way you can measure the latency introduced by the the kernel when listening from userspace. Note that there's a little extra latency due to the gpio-pin handling. You can also use it e.g. blink a led :-) It is on github: https://github.com/flok99/pps2gpio Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail cok yonlu kullanimli bir program, loglari okumak, verilen kommandolari yerine getirebilen. Filter, renk verme, merge, 'diff- view', vs. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] measuring os latency for pps
Not sure if it is interesting for you guys but I wrote a simple program for e.g. Linux (or any other system with the pps api implemented) that listens on a pps source waiting for a pulse and then toggles a gpio pin. That way you can measure the latency introduced by the the kernel when listening from userspace. Note that there's a little extra latency due to the gpio-pin handling. You can also use it e.g. blink a led :-) It is on github: https://github.com/flok99/pps2gpio You could potentially work out the GPIO latency by activating two GPIO pins sequentially instead of just one. in your code open two pins rewrite set_value to take two fd's and then have two write()s inside that. The time delay between the changing states of the two pins would give you an approximate value of the latency. Great suggestion! I'll add it. Folkert van Heusden -- Multitail est un outil permettant la visualisation de fichiers de journalisation et/ou le suivi de l'exécution de commandes. Filtrage, mise en couleur de mot-clé, fusions, visualisation de différences (diff-view), etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] monitor attack
Hi, This morning I got an e-mail from my ISP (xs4all in the Netherlands) that my systems can be used for a reflection attack. They had logged in to my modem and pinpointed a clock on my LAN. What confuses me is the following: - the gateway system already had disable monitor restrict -4 default kod notrap nomodify nopeer restrict -6 default kod notrap nomodify nopeer in ntp.conf - the clock they complained about is somewhere on my LAN and should not directly be accessible from the outside (192.168.64.45). it did not have disable monitor but as I mentioned; it cannot be reached from the internet Does someone have got any idea what the problem here is? Note that testing it won't (should) not work right now as I temporarily firewalled port 123 until I figured this out. regards, Folkert van Heusden -- Always wondered what the latency of your webserver is? Or how much more latency you get when you go through a proxy server/tor? The numbers tell the tale and with HTTPing you know them! http://www.vanheusden.com/httping/ --- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] rasperry pi, pps, false ticker
Config is as follows: driftfile /var/lib/ntp/ntp.drift ## kernel pps driver server 127.127.22.1 minpoll 4 maxpoll 4 prefer fudge 127.127.22.1 refid PPS flag3 1 # NMEA source server 127.127.28.0 minpoll 4 fudge 127.127.28.0 refid GPPS # other time sources on LAN with GPS/GLONASS/DCF77/etc peer neo peer hetlicht peer clara peer nanosg20 peer china server agps iburst minpoll 1 maxpoll 4 server artc iburst minpoll 1 maxpoll 4 # upstream servers server ntp.xs4all.nl iburst server ntp.nmi.nl iburst server chime1.surfnet.nl iburst server ntp0.nl.uu.net iburst restrict -4 default kod notrap nomodify restrict -6 default kod notrap nomodify restrict 127.0.0.1 restrict ::1 disable auth broadcast 172.29.0.255 You don???t give your config, but as using the shared memory driver works, do you have a prefer peer active when you are using the atom driver? If there isn???t one, that will cause the ref clock to be falseticker???d?. Your atom jitter isn???t the issue. So what you're saying is that the atom should not be the preferred one? I'll give that a try. Thanks Ceux qui sont prêts à abandonner une liberté essentielle pour obtenir une petite et provisoire sécurité, ne méritent ni liberté ni sécurité. Benjimin Franklin Le 9 mars 2015 à 10:52, folkert folk...@vanheusden.com a écrit : Hi, I have a raspberry pi with a gps connected to it. It runs linux kernel 3.18.5+ and ntp version 1:4.2.6.p5+dfsg-2. When I use my own rpi_gpio_ntp which is a userspace program, I get something like: remote refid st t when poll reach delay offset jitter == *127.127.28.1.PPS.0 l8 16 3770.000 -0.010 0.008 *127.127.28.1.PPS.0 l 11 16 3770.0000.005 0.012 *127.127.28.1.PPS.0 l 12 16 3770.0000.005 0.012 *127.127.28.1.PPS.0 l1 16 3770.0000.001 0.011 (I omitted the peers) So the jitter is around 8us. Not bad for userspace. Linux has this PPS interface for a while so now that it is easy configurable in config.txt on the rpi, I thought I give that a try. The strange thing now is that using that I get very bad jitter. So bad that ntp discards it as a false ticker! remote refid st t when poll reach delay offset jitter == x127.127.22.1.PPS.0 l2 16 3770.0000.161 0.001 x127.127.22.1.PPS.0 l7 16 3770.0000.148 0.006 x127.127.22.1.PPS.0 l 13 16 3770.0000.147 0.007 x127.127.22.1.PPS.0 l2 16 3770.0000.146 0.006 This is odd: the pps interface should work way better due to lower latency etc. What could be going wrong here? The one at the top (28.1) uses GPS and the one at the bottom uses a combined Glonass/GPS receiver. Note that I also swapped tried using pps with 28.1 and rpi_gpio_ntp on 22.1 and then 28.1 fails and 22.1 is fine. Folkert van Heusden -- Curious about the inner workings of your car? Then check O2OO: it'll tell you all that there is to know about your car's engine! http://www.vanheusden.com/O2OO/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions Folkert van Heusden -- Afraid of irssi? Scared of bitchx? Does xchat gives you bad shivers? In all these cases take a look at http://www.vanheusden.com/fi/ maybe even try it or use it for all your day-to-day IRC conversations! --- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] rasperry pi, pps, false ticker
Hi, I have a raspberry pi with a gps connected to it. It runs linux kernel 3.18.5+ and ntp version 1:4.2.6.p5+dfsg-2. When I use my own rpi_gpio_ntp which is a userspace program, I get something like: remote refid st t when poll reach delay offset jitter == *127.127.28.1.PPS.0 l8 16 3770.000 -0.010 0.008 *127.127.28.1.PPS.0 l 11 16 3770.0000.005 0.012 *127.127.28.1.PPS.0 l 12 16 3770.0000.005 0.012 *127.127.28.1.PPS.0 l1 16 3770.0000.001 0.011 (I omitted the peers) So the jitter is around 8us. Not bad for userspace. Linux has this PPS interface for a while so now that it is easy configurable in config.txt on the rpi, I thought I give that a try. The strange thing now is that using that I get very bad jitter. So bad that ntp discards it as a false ticker! remote refid st t when poll reach delay offset jitter == x127.127.22.1.PPS.0 l2 16 3770.0000.161 0.001 x127.127.22.1.PPS.0 l7 16 3770.0000.148 0.006 x127.127.22.1.PPS.0 l 13 16 3770.0000.147 0.007 x127.127.22.1.PPS.0 l2 16 3770.0000.146 0.006 This is odd: the pps interface should work way better due to lower latency etc. What could be going wrong here? The one at the top (28.1) uses GPS and the one at the bottom uses a combined Glonass/GPS receiver. Note that I also swapped tried using pps with 28.1 and rpi_gpio_ntp on 22.1 and then 28.1 fails and 22.1 is fine. Folkert van Heusden -- Curious about the inner workings of your car? Then check O2OO: it'll tell you all that there is to know about your car's engine! http://www.vanheusden.com/O2OO/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] linux kernel pps support on raspberry pi
They are not overclocked. These are B-boards. On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 12:56:33PM -0800, A C wrote: Is the Rpi overclocked? When overclocked it will dynamically change the CPU frequency. You could potentially underclock it or heatsink the SoC to keep the CPU frequency from changing. Also, which version of the RPi? A, B or B-plus? On 2014-12-17 12:22, folkert wrote: This is about receiving a pps signal via one of the gpio pins of the raspberry pi and then feeding it to ntp. Did a test for a while: every 5 minutes I would look at the output of ntpq -c pe -n for jitter of the pps source. This pps source was measured either in the kernel (this newly added gpio pps support in the raspberry pi) or in user space using my own rpi_gpio_ntp. TL;DR: - kernel : 13.2us jitter on average - userspace: 9.6us jitter on average Folkert van Heusden ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions Folkert van Heusden -- Multitail est un outil permettant la visualisation de fichiers de journalisation et/ou le suivi de l'exécution de commandes. Filtrage, mise en couleur de mot-clé, fusions, visualisation de différences (diff-view), etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] linux kernel pps support on raspberry pi
This is about receiving a pps signal via one of the gpio pins of the
raspberry pi and then feeding it to ntp.
Did a test for a while: every 5 minutes I would look at the output of
ntpq -c pe -n for jitter of the pps source.
This pps source was measured either in the kernel (this newly added
gpio pps support in the raspberry pi) or in user space using my own
rpi_gpio_ntp.
kernel pps interrupt handling
-
root@detijd:/etc# while true ; do echo `date +%s` `ntpq -c pe -n | grep
127.127.22.0` ; sleep 300 ; done | tee -a /pps.log
root@detijd:/etc# cat /pps.log | awk '{ print $11; }' | awk 'BEGIN { max = -1;
min = 1000; } { if ($1 max) { max=$1; } if ($1 min) { min=$1; } t+=$1; n++;
} END { print min, max, t/n, n; }'
0.001 0.124 0.0131945 797
This is minimum, maximum (yes that's 124!) and average. And I took 797
samples which is almost 3 days.
average temperature of soc: 49.7 with stddev of 1.87
userspace
-
note: I looked at ntpq every 30 seconds(!)
root@hetlicht:/var/log/ntpstats# cat /rpn.log | awk '{ print $11; }' | awk
'BEGIN { max = -1; min = 1000; } { if ($1 max) { max=$1; } if ($1 min) {
min=$1; } t+=$1; n++; } END { print min, max, t/n, n; }'
0.001 0.101 0.00955351 27797
This is over 9,6 days.
average temperature of soc: 51,1 with stddev of 4.01
TL;DR:
- kernel : 13.2us jitter on average
- userspace: 9.6us jitter on average
Folkert van Heusden
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[ntp:questions] best practices while implementing SNTP
Hi, Are there any best practices when implementing an SNTP client implementation? E.g. poll 3 times and take the average (this is an example which may not be true). Folkert van Heusden -- Ever wonder what is out there? Any alien races? Then please support the seti@home project: setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] why does ntp refuse my pps source
Hi, I have a raspberry pi with a adafruit gps module. This RPI runs linux with a kernel adapted for PPS. This is time4: remote refid st t when poll reach delay offset jitter == *time1.intranet. .PPS.1 u 475 1024 3770.5390.336 0.282 +time3.intranet. .PPS.1 u 1014 1024 3770.9610.198 0.195 +time2.intranet. 192.168.64.2 2 u 452 1024 3771.7260.037 0.198 -auth1.xs4all.nl 134.221.205.12 2 u 779 1024 377 18.207 -2.128 0.191 xSHM(0) .NMEA. 0 l9 16 3770.000 -348.89 12.214 xPPS(0) .PPS.0 l 10 16 3770.0000.354 0.002 ind assid status conf reach auth condition last_event cnt === 1 29160 961a yes yes none sys.peersys_peer 1 2 29161 941a yes yes none candidatesys_peer 1 3 29162 9414 yes yes none candidate reachable 1 4 29163 9314 yes yes none outlyer reachable 1 5 29164 911a yes yes none falseticksys_peer 1 6 29165 9114 yes yes none falsetick reachable 1 associd=29165 status=9114 conf, reach, sel_falsetick, 1 event, reachable, srcadr=PPS(0), srcport=123, dstadr=127.0.0.1, dstport=123, leap=00, stratum=0, precision=-20, rootdelay=0.000, rootdisp=0.000, refid=PPS, reftime=d58d6c66.ffe7320f Sun, Jul 14 2013 20:28:54.999, rec=d58d6c67.8bdeabe2 Sun, Jul 14 2013 20:28:55.546, reach=377, unreach=0, hmode=3, pmode=4, hpoll=4, ppoll=4, headway=0, flash=00 ok, keyid=0, offset=0.378, delay=0.000, dispersion=0.233, jitter=0.010, filtdelay= 0.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.00, filtoffset=0.380.380.380.370.370.360.360.36, filtdisp= 0.000.240.480.720.961.201.441.68 I find this rather strange. Time1 is a regular pc with a garmin 18x lvc, time3 is an rpi with pps. Time2 is also an rpi with a adafruit gps with pps but using a userspace pps implementation instead (which might explain why it chooses a remote time source over its local pps). Any ideas? Folkert van Heusden -- Always wondered what the latency of your webserver is? Or how much more latency you get when you go through a proxy server/tor? The numbers tell the tale and with HTTPing you know them! http://www.vanheusden.com/httping/ --- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] pps coming in, not received by ntpd
[] To timestamp the pps, you have to have some module (ie kernel level) timestamp process. shmpps, gpsd, the kernel pps, write your own, Thanks for the information, Bill. My only additional comment is that the code to timestamp the PPS /can/ be in user-mode, although kernel-mode is preferable. Additional Linux modules are /not/ required. ?? To timestamp the interrupt, you need kernel land. Ie, you need a module. Now you can use one of the modules others have written or you can write your own. But userland cannot get any sort of accuracy trying to figure out when and if a hardware line has been pulled up or not. Well from userspace I get a jitter of only 10us on an rpi. Yes, I totally agree that from kernel it would be better (in fact: is) but for the moment it works for me :-) (too much hassle to recompile the kernel and ntpd) Folkert van Heusden -- www.vanheusden.com/multitail - multitail is tail on steroids. multiple windows, filtering, coloring, anything you can think of -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] pps coming in, not received by ntpd
Something odd is happening. I've connected a garmin 18 lvc to a pc. The system has a kernel with pps support and i verified it comes in: and the NMEA sentences are processed correctly: but the pps isn't: - shouldn't the NMEA have the prefer, and not the PPS? I am uncertain about this, but if this is the case, I have this wrong on my Web page. I think PPS because that's the most accurate source in my situation I think. The nmea source jitters all over the place But I don't think the prefer keyword doesn't change anything if pps comes in or not? Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail is a versatile tool for watching logfiles and output of commands. Filtering, coloring, merging, diff-view, etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] pps coming in, not received by ntpd
Hi,
Something odd is happening.
I've connected a garmin 18 lvc to a pc.
The system has a kernel with pps support and i verified it comes in:
root@hoei:/home/folkert# cat /sys/devices/virtual/pps/pps0/{assert,clear}
1372528130.997131540#54
1372528131.097120120#54
I'm running gpsd and it says the gps has a fix and it also has all
appropriate devices open:
gpsd 27762 nobody7u CHR 4,65 0t0
1144 /dev/ttyS1
gpsd 27762 nobody9r CHR 251,0 0t0
82440 /dev/pps0
gps is started with '-n'
ntpd is configurated to listen to the shared memory segments:
server 127.127.28.0 minpoll 4
fudge 127.127.28.0 refid NMEA
server 127.127.28.1 minpoll 4 prefer
fudge 127.127.28.1 refid PPS
Both nptd and gpsd look at the first 2 segments:
-- Shared Memory Segments
keyshmid owner perms bytes nattch status
0x4e545030 0 root 60096 2
0x4e545031 32769 root 60096 2
0x4e545032 65538 root 66696 1
0x4e545033 98307 root 66696 1
0x47505344 131076 root 6668240 1
The PPS seems to be seen by gpsd:
root@hoei:/home/folkert# strace -fp 27872 21 | grep ioctl
...
[pid 27873] ioctl(9, PPS_FETCH, 0x7f1e63cc9d00) = 0
and the NMEA sentences are processed correctly:
x127.127.28.0.NMEA. 0 l 10 16 3770.000 -275.55 4.421
but the pps isn't:
127.127.28.1.PPS.0 l- 1600.0000.000 0.000
Anyone any idea?
Folkert van Heusden
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[ntp:questions] raspberry pi, ntp pps source
Hi, I bought a adafruit gps module http://www.adafruit.com/products/746 and a raspberry pi. Now cross compiling a kernel with pps support is too much of a hassle (for me). So I wrote a small program which, from userspace, listens on a selectable GPIO pin and then feeds the timestamp via shared memory to NTP. Works not very bad: 10us jitter at most. I thought maybe some of you might be interested. The (open source, of course) program can be retrieved from: http://vanheusden.com/time/rpi_gpio_ntp/ Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail er et flexible tool for å kontrolere Logfiles og commandoer. Med filtrer, farger, sammenføringer, forskeliger ansikter etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] ntp system without a rtc
Via gpsd indeed. But it that is a problem I can do other things first before I start gpsd. No, with gpsd it is easier because you can connect the gpsd port and ask it for the current time without having to worry about parsing the gps data, sharing the serial port with other applications, etc. Just send a D command to gpsd, get and parse the reply and set the clock. Yeah that's what I did in the end. Only 10 lines of code using libgpsd. I forgot to mention libgpsd but fortunately you located it and did not have to write the code to connect gpsd (although that is pretty simple in many script languages). Yes. The program came part of http://www.vanheusden.com/ows/ which is a program to collect access points in the streets which can then be uploaded to http://www.openwlanmap.org/?lang=en (which is a public service for finding your location when all you have is wifi functionality). There also is some testing code included with gpsd that parses the reply but then does nothing useful with it. That might have been an even easier starting point (only an stime call needs to be added). Of course some error handling won't hurt, in case the GPS has no lock yet. Yes, I check if the fix mode = 2 and status != NO_FIX. Works like a charm. Folkert van Heusden -- Nagios user? Check out CoffeeSaint - the versatile Nagios status viewer! http://www.vanheusden.com/java/CoffeeSaint/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] ntp system without a rtc
How do you access the GPS receiver? Via gpsd? Via gpsd indeed. But it that is a problem I can do other things first before I start gpsd. No, with gpsd it is easier because you can connect the gpsd port and ask it for the current time without having to worry about parsing the gps data, sharing the serial port with other applications, etc. Just send a D command to gpsd, get and parse the reply and set the clock. Yeah that's what I did in the end. Only 10 lines of code using libgpsd. Maybe a program to do that is already available on the net. There's no fun in that :-) Folkert van Heusden -- www.TrustedTimestamping.com is a service that enables you to show that at a certain point in time, you had access to a hash-value reflecting the contents of a file (this file can be a word document, a jpeg image, everything). -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] ntp system without a rtc
Hi, I have a raspberry pi system. This is a computer without a real time clock. So everytime I power it on, it uses starts where it left off which might be days earlier. It is connected only very occasionally to the internet so syncing to that won't work. It does have, however, a gps connected. But as it is switched mostly for less than an hour, ntpd won't have the time to adjust the time to what the gps returns to it. So I was wondering: is there a utility/a trick out there that picks the current time from a gps and then jumps the time to what it should be? It does not need to be very accurate - a couple of seconds off is ok (just not hours or days). Any ideas? Regards, Folkert van Heusden -- Winnen in de staatsloterij? Check htp://vanheusden.com/sl.php voor alle staatsloterij-uitslag statistieken denkbaar en zelfs ook een paar win-tips! -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] ntp system without a rtc
I have a raspberry pi system. This is a computer without a real time clock. So everytime I power it on, it uses starts where it left off which might be days earlier. It is connected only very occasionally to the internet so syncing to that won't work. It does have, however, a gps connected. But as it is switched mostly for less than an hour, ntpd won't have the time to adjust the time to what the gps returns to it. So I was wondering: is there a utility/a trick out there that picks the current time from a gps and then jumps the time to what it should be? It does not need to be very accurate - a couple of seconds off is ok (just not hours or days). Any ideas? How do you access the GPS receiver? Via gpsd? Via gpsd indeed. But it that is a problem I can do other things first before I start gpsd. Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail är ett flexibel redskap för att följa en eller flera logfiler, utföra kommandon, filtrera, färglägga, sammanfoga, o.s.v... -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] ntp system without a rtc
I have a raspberry pi system. This is a computer without a real time clock. So everytime I power it on, it uses starts where it left off which might be days earlier. It is connected only very occasionally to the internet so syncing to that won't work. It does have, however, a gps connected. But as it is switched mostly for less than an hour, ntpd won't have the time to adjust the time to what the gps returns to it. Why not use somthing like this: http://www.adafruit.com/products/255 ChronoDot - Ultra-precise Real Time Clock - v2.1 The ChronoDot RTC is an extremely accurate real time clock module, based on the DS3231 temperature compensated RTC (TCXO). It includes a CR2016 battery (not shown, but included in the product) which should last at least 8 years if the I2C interface is only used while the device has 5V power available. No external crystal or tuning capacitors are required. That's an option but I'm currently aiming for a solution that doesn't cost any extra money. Folkert van Heusden -- To MultiTail einai ena polymorfiko ergaleio gia ta logfiles kai tin eksodo twn entolwn. Prosferei: filtrarisma, xrwmatismo, sygxwneysi, diaforetikes provoles. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] outlyer / falseticker
Hi, Why is a clock decided to be a falseticker/outlyer? Does it have to do with the stratum or are other factors the decision factor? e.g.: ntpq pstatus 60996 associd=60996 status=9314 conf, reach, sel_outlyer, 1 event, reachable, srcadr=x.x.x.x, srcport=123, dstadr=x.x.x.x, dstport=123, leap=00, stratum=4, precision=-24, rootdelay=37.201, rootdispersion=153.793, refid=x.x.x.x, reach=377, unreach=0, hmode=3, pmode=4, hpoll=6, ppoll=6, flash=00 ok, keyid=0, ttl=0, offset=2.499, delay=9.095, dispersion=2.698, jitter=0.115, reftime=d4e2ecad.0fbfa4b2 Thu, Mar 7 2013 11:38:37.061, org=d4e2f01d.d9645cf8 Thu, Mar 7 2013 11:53:17.849, rec=d4e2f01d.d9eb2de5 Thu, Mar 7 2013 11:53:17.851, xmt=d4e2f01d.d78e8703 Thu, Mar 7 2013 11:53:17.842, filtdelay= 9.129.169.169.109.119.289.739.16, filtoffset=2.502.532.472.502.572.612.572.76, filtdisp= 0.000.961.912.903.864.805.756.72 Folkert van Heusden -- Feeling generous? - http://www.vanheusden.com/wishlist.php -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] outlyer / falseticker
Why is a clock decided to be a falseticker/outlyer? It's 0300 where I am and I'm about to fall asleep. See ntp_proto.c, and look for falseticker and SEL_SANE. Ok. While reading through the source, I encountered a lot of unusual comments: * Initially, we populate the island with all the rifraff peers rifraff? * that happen to be lying around. Those with seriously * defective clocks are immediately booted off the island. Then, * the falsetickers are culled and put to sea. The truechimers cullend and put to sea? * remaining are subject to repeated rounds where the most * unpopular at each round is kicked off. When the population * has dwindled to sys_minclock, the survivors split a million * bucks and collectively crank the chimes. split a million bucks? * candidates, the Albanians have won the Byzantine wars and * correct synchronization is not possible. byzantine wars? I would like to suggest to use language without any ambiguity. Yes, it is probably more fun for the developer this way, but for others, especially the ones who are not native English speakers, these texts are confusing. For example the survivors split a million bucks: is it supposed to be funny or does it have a special meaning? Does it have to do with the stratum or are other factors the decision factor? There are other factors. Sorry I'm not being more helpful. No problem, don't feel obliged. Folkert van Heusden -- www.TrustedTimestamping.com is a service that enables you to show that at a certain point in time, you had access to a hash-value reflecting the contents of a file (this file can be a word document, a jpeg image, everything). -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] outlyer / falseticker
Okay, it can be a little obtuse, especially if you don't know the references. The two specific references that are being used here are the reality television show Survivor and The Byzantine Generals Problem, an algorithm for detecting misbehaving parts of a system, in this case an NTP server. [ skipped explanation ] Thanks! Makes it much clearer. Maybe this can be written down in a FAQ on the ntp-website? No need to elaborate or make it more document-like, I found it very clear as you've written it down. regards Folkert van Heusden -- -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] outlyer / falseticker
byzantine wars? I would like to suggest to use language without any ambiguity. Yes, it is probably more fun for the developer this way, but for others, especially the ones who are not native English speakers, these texts are confusing. For example the survivors split a million bucks: is it supposed to be funny or does it have a special meaning? I am positive that no matter where you live, the television show Survivor has made its appearance. Never seen it. And yes, it was on television over here in the Netherlands. If you do not like humour (which I agree can in some cases not translate well, but you are reading it in English) then reading David Mills' code is probably not for you. It is not about liking humour, it it about making it more difficult to comprehend what is going on in a piece of code. And comments with riddles in them makes this more difficult. Folkert van Heusden -- Curious about the inner workings of your car? Then check O2OO: it'll tell you all that there is to know about your car's engine! http://www.vanheusden.com/O2OO/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] outlyer / falseticker
Anytime you explain, you are assuming that the explanation refers to concepts more familiar to the reader than the original concepts. voting -- what do you do if you come from Turkmenistan, where voting always had a preordained output? Should you never refer to voting when explaining what happens in the reduction process? Similarly for the other explanations. You're using an hyperbole. Ie, it seems that when one reads a language one does not understand well, when you come across a term you do not understand, recourse to a dictionary would be a good idea, rather than complaining on usenet. Referring to a secondary information source pulls you (well, at least me) out of the thought-train. This is not code which opens a file and sends it contents to the terminal, this is complex codes with all kinds of algorithms that need to be comprehended to understand to full picture. Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail er et flexible tool for å kontrolere Logfiles og commandoer. Med filtrer, farger, sammenføringer, forskeliger ansikter etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] 1s offset
Hi, Something odd is happening. I have an old Garmin 18x LVC, a couple of years old and one I bought a couple of weeks ago. The one from a couple of weeks ago has the most recent firmware. The older one only returns one sentence (GPMRC if I remember correctly), the new one has factory default settings and returns a couple of them. Now when I run either 4.2.6p5 or dev-4.2.7p359, I always get an offset of ~1s. Both systems are configured to use NMEA + PPS synchronization. If I use 4.2.5p158 instead, the synchronization is perfect, on both systems. As the older garmin has much older firmware and the new garmin the most recent one (3.80 iirc), I don't think it is firmware issue. Also I tried the new garmin with only 1 nmea sentence but that didn't help. The 4.2.5p158 ntp version does not seem to do ipv6? So that is..., a bit unfortunate. Any ideas? Folkert van Heusden -- www.TrustedTimestamping.com is a service that enables you to show that at a certain point in time, you had access to a hash-value reflecting the contents of a file (this file can be a word document, a jpeg image, everything). -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] 1s offset
[ garmin 18x lvc offsets ] ... Now when I run either 4.2.6p5 or dev-4.2.7p359, I always get an offset of ~1s. ... If I use 4.2.5p158 instead, the synchronization is perfect, on both systems. Agreed that it's unlikely to be a firmware issue, but there is an interesting graph here: http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/Garmin-GSP18x-LVC-firmware-issue.htm specifically: http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/Garmin-18x-3.7.png which shows that the end of the NMEA sentence may be well over 0.5 s after the PPS, and hence into the next second. Could it be that: True. (a) 4.2.5p158 looks for the start of the data, not the end I should do a bisect. No SVN/GIT repository though? and: (b) you haven't specified the appropriate time offset value (fudge field) for the serial data for the other two versions of NTP? I looked at my changes of yesterday and I saw that I tried, then time1 1.0 which should be time2 1.0. And after 7 minutes it is: remote refid st t when poll reach delay offset jitter == o127.127.20.0.GPS.0 l5 16 3770.000 -0.060 0.006 -194.109.22.18 193.67.79.2022 u 30 64 177 19.359 -1.282 7.608 -194.109.20.18 193.67.79.2022 u 30 64 177 19.332 -3.155 8.272 +193.67.79.202 .PPS.1 u 28 64 177 21.7720.081 1.864 +192.87.106.2194.171.167.130 2 u 31 64 177 19.7540.205 3.468 +134.221.205.12 .PPS.1 u 27 64 177 21.460 -0.398 5.835 +192.168.64.100 .GPS.1 u 46 64 1760.113 -0.025 0.273 +192.168.62.129 192.168.64.100 2 u 20 64 1770.7130.110 0.534 224.0.1.1 .MCST. 16 u- 6400.0000.000 0.000 192.168.64.255 .BCST. 16 u- 6400.0000.000 0.000 172.29.0.255.BCST. 16 u- 6400.0000.000 0.000 172.19.255.255 .BCST. 16 u- 6400.0000.000 0.000 This looks promising! I'll let it run for a night and see what is happing. The other system, which still runs 4.2.5p158, gives after half a day: remote refid st t when poll reach delay offset jitter == *127.127.20.1.GPS.0 l 14 16 3770.000 -0.089 0.096 -192.168.64.1.GPS.1 u 13 64 1770.135 -0.016 0.185 192.168.62.129 192.168.64.100 2 u 45 64 3760.8510.374 1.573 x82.95.142.92129.70.132.363 u 53 64 377 38.416 -93.971 4.179 127.127.28.0.SHM0. 2 l- 6400.0000.000 0.000 -194.109.22.18 193.67.79.2022 u 35 64 377 19.307 -1.104 2.741 -194.109.20.18 193.67.79.2022 u 21 64 377 19.382 -2.231 3.765 +193.79.237.14 .PPS.1 u 60 64 377 20.894 -0.693 4.470 +192.87.36.4 .GPS.1 u 10 64 377 23.136 -0.976 4.772 -134.221.205.12 .PPS.1 u 62 64 377 22.208 -1.076 3.891 -172.29.0.11 193.67.79.2022 u 51 64 377 20.858 -0.886 7.888 Folkert van Heusden -- Feeling generous? - http://www.vanheusden.com/wishlist.php -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] How to keep fake time in past/future?
How would you implement an NTP server which would need to offer a time set deliberately in past/future, say 365*86400 seconds, or even better - first set the freely chosen date on NTP server and then keep the hours, minutes and seconds in sync with the real time? http://www.vanheusden.com/time/jans/ Folkert van Heusden -- Multitail est un outil permettant la visualisation de fichiers de journalisation et/ou le suivi de l'exécution de commandes. Filtrage, mise en couleur de mot-clé, fusions, visualisation de différences (diff-view), etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] running NTP as server only
On a Debian VM running on VMware server: st...@www:~$ awk -f /root/peer.awk /var/log/ntpstats/peerstats ident cnt mean rms max delay dist disp === 208.88...39 -0.2871.9065.352 65.024 53.465 15.884 All of which is academic, as, on a more careful reading of the question, what the OP actually wants is a configuration with just the local clock driver and no external servers or reference clocks. He just wants to serve the guests idea of time as told to it by the host. I solved the problem by adapting my NTP-testtool slightly so that it is not only usefull to test/experimentwith NTP clients but can be used as a very simpel server as well: http://www.vanheusden.com/time/jans/ Folkert van Heusden -- -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] running NTP as server only
Is it possible to run the NTP daemon only as a server and not as a local-clock maintainer? Reason: I have a virtual machine which gets its time via the vmware tooling from the hardware server it is running on. Now this virtual machine needs to distribute the time to clients. Did you study the vmware technical note about keeping time in virtual machines? It suggests that turning off this time synchronization in the vmware tools and running normal ntp in the virtual machine is better... Ok, I'll take a look at those notes. Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail na wan makriki wrokosani fu tan luku den logfile nanga san den commando spiti puru. Piki puru spesrutu sani, wroko nanga difrenti kroru, tya kon makandra, nanga wan lo moro. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] running NTP as server only
Is it possible to run the NTP daemon only as a server and not as a local-clock maintainer? Reason: I have a virtual machine which gets its time via the vmware tooling from the hardware server it is running on. Now this virtual machine needs to distribute the time to clients. server 127.127.1.0 comes to mind. I think that is what I'm looking for! thanks Folkert van Heusden -- www.biglumber.com - site where one can exchange PGP key signatures -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] running NTP as server only
Is it possible to run the NTP daemon only as a server and not as a local-clock maintainer? Reason: I have a virtual machine which gets its time via the vmware tooling from the hardware server it is running on. Now this virtual machine needs to distribute the time to clients. Aarrgdaagh. Why would you have a virtual machine, with its remarkably unreliabl e clock serve its time to others? Because we don't want to have another physical server for the usual reasons (needs to be monitored, serviced, etc.). Folkert van Heusden -- Multitail est un outil permettant la visualisation de fichiers de journalisation et/ou le suivi de l'exécution de commandes. Filtrage, mise en couleur de mot-clé, fusions, visualisation de différences (diff-view), etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] running NTP as server only
uh, to quote Landauer, all information is physical. All virtual machines MUST also run on physical machines. But that does not mean you can run NTP on them. E.g. on VMware ESX, you cannot do this. (there is an NTP running on the console session, but that is just a virtual machine running a Linux variant, it is not running on the physical machine either) And not so long ago, somebody quoted a more recent whitepaper here that said running NTP in the virtual machines was now working much better and in fact recommended. Using NTP in Linux and Other Guests The Network Time Protocol is usable in a virtual machine with proper configuration of the NTP daemon. The following points are important: Do not configure the virtual machine to synchronize to its own (virtual) hardware clock, not even as a fallback with a high stratum number. Some sample ntpd.conf files contain a section specifying the local clock as a potential time server, often marked with the comment âundisciplined local clock.â Delete any such server specification from your ntpd.conf file. Include the option tinker panic 0 at the top of your ntp.conf file. By default, the NTP daemon sometimes panics and exits if the underlying clock appears to be behaving erratically. This option causes the daemon to keep running instead of panicking. Follow standard best practices for NTP: Choose a set of servers to synchronize to that have accurate time and adequate redundancy. If you have many virtual or physical client machines to synchronize, set up some internal servers for them to use, so that all your clients are not directly accessing an external lowâstratum NTP server and overloading it with requests. (vmware document of 2008, status of vmware 3.5) In situations where the host has enough cores that they can be allocated more persistently to running VMs, I can even see this work. The problem used to be, mostly, that interrupts didn't (always) arrive on time. Yet another problem solved by throwing hardware, to wit interrupt lines, at it. Folkert van Heusden -- Multitail est un outil permettant la visualisation de fichiers de journalisation et/ou le suivi de l'exécution de commandes. Filtrage, mise en couleur de mot-clé, fusions, visualisation de différences (diff-view), etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] running NTP as server only
Hi, Is it possible to run the NTP daemon only as a server and not as a local-clock maintainer? Reason: I have a virtual machine which gets its time via the vmware tooling from the hardware server it is running on. Now this virtual machine needs to distribute the time to clients. Folkert van Heusden -- Multitail es una herramienta flexible que permite visualizar los log file y seguir la ejecución de comandos. Permite filtrar, añadir colores, combinar archivos, la visualización de diferencias (diff- view), etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] running NTP as server only
Hi, Is it possible to run the NTP daemon only as a server and not as a local-clock maintainer? Reason: I have a virtual machine which gets its time via the vmware tooling from the hardware server it is running on. Now this virtual machine needs to distribute the time to clients. Virtual machines make terrible timesources-- 10's to 100's of milliseconds of jitter are not unusual. I don't think that is in all situations the case. Depends on the scheduling by the hypervisor. iirc ibm pseries lpars don't have this problem. That is why they have (x)ntp running in each of them normally. If you need to run ntpd on that specific hardware, run it in the host ESX or Xen's Dom0 instead, and not in one of the hosted virtual machines. Yes, that is what I propose: - let the hypervisor sync to a reliable accure timesource - sync the vms to the hypervisor with some mechanism. e.g. on vmware you have the vmware tooling which runs in the vm and syncs time to the hypervisor (and also things like memory ballooning etc) - let the vm then distribute the notion of time it got from the hypervisor to clients Somewhere this week I'll test how this works: I put together what I was asking, a program which picks the time from the local clock and then sends this via ntp. Then I'll have two systems (which run directly on hardware, not a vm) that will have a couple of low-stratum servers to sync against as well as my vm. If they then declare my solution as a falseticker and/or with a high jitter, I then know it won't works. Agree? Folkert van Heusden -- Ever wonder what is out there? Any alien races? Then please support the s...@home project: setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] NTP and the Intel Atom
Can anyone report on NTP performance on Intel Atom based systems (such as http://supermicro.com/products/chassis/1U/502/SC502L-200.cfm)? I'm running the latest Ubuntu Netbook version on my Eee 901 PC, afaik that one has an Atom chip. If you want me to, I can start collecting loopstats on it, at least for a few days: Since it uses flash drives, I don't want too many processes that continuously write to log files! If you leave your eee on all the time you could consider mounting a 'tmpfs' somewhere and let ntp write its files there. I mounted tempfs on /tmp for the flash-reason by the way. Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail er et flexible tool for å kontrolere Logfiles og commandoer. Med filtrer, farger, sammenføringer, forskeliger ansikter etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] garmin 18 lvc versus garmin 18x lvc with pps ntp
Hi, Could not find any help anywhere on the web so you guys are my last hope. I have 2 computers running a linux PPS enabled kernel and ntp. One of the two has a garmin 18 lvc, one has a garmin 18x lvc. The one with the 18 lvc is neatly synced: remote refid st t when poll reach delay offset jitter == *GPS_NMEA(1) .GPS.0 l3 16 3770.0000.014 0.000 --- -muur.intranet.v .DCFa. 1 u6 64 3770.113 -12.192 0.047 -thegateap.intra 134.221.205.12 2 u 13 64 3770.663 -4.427 0.099 xtuinhuis.intran .MSFS. 1 u 43 64 3761.834 -21.121 0.897 xSHM(0) .MSFU. 2 l 39 64 3770.000 26.207 16.002 -ntp1.nl.uu.net .PPS.1 u 18 64 377 17.628 -3.813 0.445 +chime2.surfnet. .GPS.1 u 40 64 327 21.176 -3.315 0.123 +ntp.nmi.nl .PPS.1 u 36 64 377 19.826 -3.448 0.352 the other with the 18x lvc not so much: remote refid st t when poll reach delay offset jitter == *GENERIC(0) .DCFa. 0 l 50 64 3770.0007.370 6.659 xGPS_NMEA(0) .GPS.0 l7 16 3770.000 -657.92 11.250 --- -ntp0.nl.uu.net .PPS.1 u 441 1024 377 20.1478.310 1.973 -chime1.surfnet. .GPS.1 u 498 1024 377 17.6748.282 0.340 +ntp.nmi.nl .PPS.1 u 571 1024 377 20.0658.279 0.383 -belle.intranet. .GPS.1 u 37 64 3760.097 12.165 0.062 -thegateap.intra 192.87.106.3 2 u 962 1024 1760.0956.811 0.720 xtuinhuis.intran .MSFS. 1 u 936 1024 761.971 -8.080 0.559 As you can see it's offset is huge. Somewhere between -600 and -700 and on average around -657ms. Once (or twice) it ran fine; offset and jitter both around 0.00xms. Others seem to have this problem with that lvc version as well. I verified that the system receives pps-signal: mauer:/usr/local# for i in 1 2 3 4 5 ; do cat /sys/class/pps/pps1/assert ; sleep 1 ; done 1242845619.987661535#199682 1242845620.987661473#199683 1242845621.987660915#199684 1242845622.987660504#199685 1242845623.987660454#199686 The assert/clear is also not too short: mauer:/sys/class/pps/pps1# cat assert clear 1242846035.987585645#200094 1242846036.187587528#199624 so no problem there for the system to capture them. Is there a way that i can verify that ntpd also sees these events? Folkert van Heusden -- Multitail es una herramienta flexible que permite visualizar los log file y seguir la ejecución de comandos. Permite filtrar, añadir colores, combinar archivos, la visualización de diferencias (diff- view), etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] using 'peer' together with 'server'
Hi, I have 4 servers that should be in sync for time with each other as well as much as the upstream ntp servers. Am I right that I can configure this like this or is it that if you configure peers the upstream servers are ignored? # peer a - this system is a peer b peer c peer d server ntp.nmi.nl ... Folkert van Heusden -- Multitail est un outil permettant la visualisation de fichiers de journalisation et/ou le suivi de l'exécution de commandes. Filtrage, mise en couleur de mot-clé, fusions, visualisation de différences (diff-view), etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Learnings: FC8 Linux ntpd syncs to NMEA message but not PPS
PPS (127.127.28.0) working. You can have NMEA or PPS from your serial input, you just can't have both at the same time from the same GPS on the same port. There is no reason why you could not have both, except that the programs (eg shmpps) has not been written to use both. It is as far as I can see, purely a software issue. Correct. I use the pps patch by rodolpho giometti together with udo van den heuvel's patch to ntpd. Now my ntp syncs to both the nmea and the pps part of my garmin: remote refid st t when poll reach delay offset jitter == *GPS_NMEA(1) .GPS.0 l3 16 3770.000 -0.004 0.000 Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail is a versatile tool for watching logfiles and output of commands. Filtering, coloring, merging, diff-view, etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] ntpdate refusing ntp.nmi.nl
Yes: got a mail from the mail responsible for the system. He told me that he manually disconnected the IRIG-B connection to the NTP server hardware. Then after resetting the time the server told him that it is locked to PPS. - more or less translated what he told me. On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 10:56:50AM +0100, Nero Imhard wrote: They must have changed something! Their refid now reads PPS and the offset is much more reasonable: remote refid st t when poll reach delay offset jitter == -ntp2.inrim.it .UTCI. 1 u 709 1024 377 25.2960.437 0.091 +ntp.nmi.nl .PPS.1 u 313 1024 3577.1280.146 0.039 *ntp1.nl.uu.net .PPS.1 u 645 1024 3774.6950.061 0.012 -auth1.xs4all.nl 193.79.237.142 u 697 1024 3774.575 -0.633 0.019 +ns1.tcd.ie 193.62.22.74 2 u 701 1024 377 22.632 -0.138 0.291 +ntp2.virtu.nl 193.67.79.2022 u 656 1024 3771.240 -0.120 0.046 N ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail är en flexibel redskap för att fälja logfilar, utför av commandoer, filtrera, ge färg, sammanfoga, o.s.v. följa. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] ntpdate refusing ntp.nmi.nl
It seems the Dutch NMi organisation (which is the time reference for the Netherlands) has an NTP-service as well. Now I tried retrieving the time with ntpdate (just to see if it was reachable) but ntpdate refuses it. Using the regular ntp daemon works fine. Could someone enlighten me why it is refused? I mean: has gone too long without sync seems a little odd as it is supposed to be connected to real atomic clocks. ... reference time:cd0c473b.73087696 Mon, Jan 5 2009 9:45:47.449 ... A wireshark capture shows that it sends a bogu reftime ... Reference Clock Update Time: Jan 5, 2009 08:45:47,4493 UTC Originate Time Stamp: Jan 8, 2009 10:15:39,0507 UTC Receive Time Stamp: Jan 8, 2009 10:15:39,0375 UTC Transmit Time Stamp: Jan 8, 2009 10:15:39,0376 UTC The Root dispersion does not look too healthy, too... Root Dispersion:3,9689 sec This really looks like they should have a look at their NTP server and its IRIG source. Why this server is accepted by ntpd is a miracle for me. Only chance I would see is if you have no other sources configured. Got this morning an e-mail from NMi and what they say is that they only occasionally connect their ntp server to a source that says what time it is. They had it connected to that irig-b because of the leapsecond and disconnected it at January 5. The rest of the time they only have it connected to the PPS source. That root dispersion, does that mean the time of that clock is almost 4 seconds behind the real time (the time of the IRIG)? Folkert van Heusden -- www.ishetweekend.nl -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] ntpdate refusing ntp.nmi.nl
transmitted 4, in filter 4 reference time:cd0c473b.73087696 Mon, Jan 5 2009 9:45:47.449 originate timestamp: cd0f5b7d.d6ff250b Wed, Jan 7 2009 17:49:01.839 transmit timestamp: cd0f5b7d.cf7e90ff Wed, Jan 7 2009 17:49:01.810 filter delay: 0.03938 0.03787 0.03879 0.03783 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 filter offset: 0.023514 0.023034 0.023029 0.023167 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 delay 0.03783, dispersion 0.00012 offset 0.023167 7 Jan 17:49:01 ntpdate[22293]: no server suitable for synchronization found ( http://nmi.nl/index.php?pageId=1215lg=nl ) A wireshark capture shows that it sends a bogu reftime ... Reference Clock Update Time: Jan 5, 2009 08:45:47,4493 UTC Does a valid NTP source need to set the reftime to something valid? Does the ntp spec say so? Originate Time Stamp: Jan 8, 2009 10:15:39,0507 UTC Receive Time Stamp: Jan 8, 2009 10:15:39,0375 UTC Transmit Time Stamp: Jan 8, 2009 10:15:39,0376 UTC The Root dispersion does not look too healthy, too... Root Dispersion:3,9689 sec The root dispersion, that is the amount of time this server is behind/faster than the stratum 0 device? So optimally that should be 0? Is there a limit defined in the ntp spec? Folkert van Heusden -- Ever wonder what is out there? Any alien races? Then please support the s...@home project: setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] ntpdate refusing ntp.nmi.nl
Does a valid NTP source need to set the reftime to something valid? Does the ntp spec say so? I can't tell you that, Folkert, but, in your particular environment, would /you/ trust a NTP source which was last synched 3 days ago? Well, they (NMi) are the Dutch national organisation for standards. This time ought to be no more than micro (nano?) seconds from UTC. What the guy from NMi tells me is that they synced the time a couple of days ago and then hooked it up to their 4 cesium clocks. So in theory there shouldn't be any difference with UTC. I'm bothering you people for this as I would like to get them to fix it. But for that I need to be able to give a explanation. Folkert van Heusden -- Multitail es una herramienta flexible que permite visualizar los log file y seguir la ejecución de comandos. Permite filtrar, añadir colores, combinar archivos, la visualización de diferencias (diff- view), etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] ntpdate refusing ntp.nmi.nl
I can't tell you that, Folkert, but, in your particular environment, would /you/ trust a NTP source which was last synched 3 days ago? It is quite unclear what the purpose of this server is. The only documented use case (through their web site) is syncing Windows XP workstations (...). An actual access policy is nowehere to be found, and the time offset is quite large. I will try and see if I can find out more. I think they're meant to give the standard time for the Netherlands: http://nmi.nl/index.php?pageId=231lg=nl says: The group of cesium clocks at NMi Van Swinden Laboratorium (VSL) provides the standard for frequency, time interval and the legal time in the Netherlands. NMi VSL calibrates frequency counters and frequency generators, oscilloscopes, stroboscopes and stopwatches, frequency, time interval, rise time and time base. NMi VSL also provides traceability to accredited laboratories through a Time Service Bulletin. Folkert van Heusden -- www.ishetweekend.nl -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] ntpdate refusing ntp.nmi.nl
Hi, Got one question: reference time:cd0c473b.73087696 Mon, Jan 5 2009 9:45:47.449 ( http://nmi.nl/index.php?pageId=1215lg=nl ) A wireshark capture shows that it sends a bogu reftime ... Reference Clock Update Time: Jan 5, 2009 08:45:47,4493 UTC Does a valid NTP source need to set the reftime to something valid? Does the ntp spec say so? Yes. Quote 'Time when the system clock was last set or corrected, in NTP timestamp format' unquote. So this can be years in the past? If so: why is ntpdate then refusing this server? Is it because of the huge root dispersion? Root Dispersion:3,9689 sec ... So optimally that should be 0? Is there a limit defined in the ntp spec? MAXDIST. 1 second in the reference implementation, which is a bit generous. like bigger than the 1 second in the ref.impl.? Folkert van Heusden -- Looking for a cheap but fast webhoster with an excellent helpdesk? http://keetweej.vanheusden.com/redir.php?id=1001 -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] ntpdate refusing ntp.nmi.nl
The Root dispersion does not look too healthy, too... Root Dispersion:3,9689 sec The root dispersion, that is the amount of time this server is behind/faster than the stratum 0 device? So optimally that should be 0? No. It is 15 times the time since there was last a valid reading from the reference clock. 4 seconds is about the 3 days you observe the reference time. There are other components, but this one will dominate here. Ok so the root dispersion is not too high if I understand you correctly (well it would be better if it were lower) I thought that ntpd was supposed to set stratum 16 if this value got too high. The systems I checked that sync to this server (and others, of course) seem to ignore it: +GPS_NMEA(1) .GPS.0 l7 16 3770.0000.007 0.001 oPPS(0) .PPS.0 l5 16 3770.0000.007 0.001 ... ntp.nmi.nl .IRIG. 1 u 23 64 377 12.778 49.101 0.462 other system: *GENERIC(0) .DCFa. 0 l 55 64 3370.000 -2.421 2.390 +adsl.remco.org .GPS.1 u 504 1024 377 19.5813.159 0.188 ... ntp.nmi.nl .IRIG. 1 u 535 1024 377 12.146 52.565 0.044 The reason that I keep on going on this system is that I would like to have them get it to also work with ntpdate and such and not only the windows implementation. The reasons for them to fix it I come up with is now: - root dispersion too high - offset too high; 52ms (tried from ADSL, cable and SDSL connected systems, synced to GPS+PPS, DCF77, MSF and systems on the internet) - reference time too old Folkert van Heusden -- To MultiTail einai ena polymorfiko ergaleio gia ta logfiles kai tin eksodo twn entolwn. Prosferei: filtrarisma, xrwmatismo, sygxwneysi, diaforetikes provoles. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] ntpdate refusing ntp.nmi.nl
The reason that I keep on going on this system is that I would like to have them get it to also work with ntpdate and such and not only the windows implementation. The reasons for them to fix it I come up with is now: - root dispersion too high - offset too high; 52ms (tried from ADSL, cable and SDSL connected systems, synced to GPS+PPS, DCF77, MSF and systems on the internet) - reference time too old I mean: they are the Dutch national standard for time, they're part of the clocks that define UTC. Even if this service is a toy for them it is a shame it is broken! Folkert van Heusden -- -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] ntpdate refusing ntp.nmi.nl
Hi, It seems the Dutch NMi organisation (which is the time reference for the Netherlands) has an NTP-service as well. Now I tried retrieving the time with ntpdate (just to see if it was reachable) but ntpdate refuses it. Using the regular ntp daemon works fine. Could someone enlighten me why it is refused? I mean: has gone too long without sync seems a little odd as it is supposed to be connected to real atomic clocks. folk...@belle:~/bin$ /usr/sbin/ntpdate -d -q -u -t 1 -p 4 ntp.nmi.nl 7 Jan 17:49:01 ntpdate[22293]: ntpdate 4.2@1.1520-o Wed Jul 16 12:36:25 UTC 2008 (1) transmit(134.221.205.12) receive(134.221.205.12) transmit(134.221.205.12) receive(134.221.205.12) transmit(134.221.205.12) receive(134.221.205.12) transmit(134.221.205.12) receive(134.221.205.12) transmit(134.221.205.12) 134.221.205.12: Server dropped: Server has gone too long without sync server 134.221.205.12, port 123 stratum 1, precision -18, leap 00, trust 000 refid [IRIG], delay 0.03783, dispersion 0.00012 transmitted 4, in filter 4 reference time:cd0c473b.73087696 Mon, Jan 5 2009 9:45:47.449 originate timestamp: cd0f5b7d.d6ff250b Wed, Jan 7 2009 17:49:01.839 transmit timestamp: cd0f5b7d.cf7e90ff Wed, Jan 7 2009 17:49:01.810 filter delay: 0.03938 0.03787 0.03879 0.03783 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 filter offset: 0.023514 0.023034 0.023029 0.023167 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 delay 0.03783, dispersion 0.00012 offset 0.023167 7 Jan 17:49:01 ntpdate[22293]: no server suitable for synchronization found ( http://nmi.nl/index.php?pageId=1215lg=nl ) Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail cok yonlu kullanimli bir program, loglari okumak, verilen kommandolari yerine getirebilen. Filter, renk verme, merge, 'diff- view', vs. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] interpreting the allan deviation graph of the ntp loopstats-file
Hi, Somewhere I read that one can evaluate their ntp-server by creating an allan deviation graph of the loopstats-file. Now I succeeded in creating them: http://keetweej.vanheusden.com/stats/allan-deviation-plots/ using this octave script: http://www.wraith.sf.ca.us/ntp/allan.oct But: now what? What do these graphs tell me? Folkert van Heusden -- Multitail es una herramienta flexible que permite visualizar los log file y seguir la ejecución de comandos. Permite filtrar, añadir colores, combinar archivos, la visualización de diferencias (diff- view), etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Why can't clocks do inital synchronization?
I don't recall ever seeing a report of NTP causing problems with normal operations. Sorry for being anal on this but: Well almost: certain versions of the linux kernel under certain specific conditions would panic when ntp introduces a leap second. http://markmail.org/message/dhm5byrbfcarpiet?q=leap+second+list:org.kernel.vger.linux-kernel Ok it's a bug in the linux kernel but it is only triggered by ntp. Folkert van Heusden -- Multi tail barnamaj mowahib li mora9abat attasjilat wa nataij awamir al 7asoub. damj, talwin, mora9abat attarchi7 wa ila akhirih. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] GPS with PPS without any soldering requirements?
Hi, Are there any cheap GPS receivers which emit a PPS signal and can be used directly without any soldering? E.g. usb or rs232. Folkert van Heusden -- Multitail - gibkaja utilita po sledovaniju log-fajlov i vyvoda kommand. Fil'trovanie, raskraivanie, slijanie, vizual'noe sravnenie, i t.d. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] new: omnisync allows you to sync against an NTP server via a socks5 proxy
Well, that. http://vanheusden.com/time/omnisync/ Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail ist eine flexible Applikation um Logfiles und Kommando Eingaben zu überprüfen. Inkl. Filter, Farben, Zusammenführen, Ansichten etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Problems distibuting time from GPSD program to NTPD
I have a gpsd and ntpd in connection running on a Fedora 5 box. Why not connect the gps directly to ntpd? (if it supports nmea output) If it has PPS output you get magnitudes higher accuracy. Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail är en flexibel redskap för att fälja logfilar, utför av commandoer, filtrera, ge färg, sammanfoga, o.s.v. följa. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] HBG down?
Hmmm it seems the problem is somewhat different: - pc 1 has fine reception - pc 2, both with on-board and external (= pci board with serial ports) doesn't seem to receive even one single bit I tested it by configuring a dcf-77 receiver in ntp on pc-1 (hbg is dcf-77 protocol) and the same on pc-2 as well as testdcf (from parseutil directory from ntpd sources). pc 1 has a regular Gigabyte 965G-DS3 motherboard, pc-2 has a Via Epia-SP motherboard. On Sun, Jan 27, 2008 at 02:46:40PM +0100, Folkert van Heusden wrote: Anyone out there with an HBG (swiss time signal) receiver? Are you also having very bad reception? Folkert van Heusden -- Multitail est un outil permettant la visualisation de fichiers de journalisation et/ou le suivi de l'exécution de commandes. Filtrage, mise en couleur de mot-clé, fusions, visualisation de différences (diff-view), etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions Folkert van Heusden -- www.vanheusden.com/multitail - win een vlaai van multivlaai! zorg ervoor dat multitail opgenomen wordt in Fedora Core, AIX, Solaris of HP/UX en win een vlaai naar keuze -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] using both a PPS source and a HBG (dcf-77-like) timesource?
Well if I remember correctly someone said to me once that the time-string returned by cheap gps device (like my garmin 18 lvc) sometimes is a bit off while its PPS signal is fine. Yes, the pps is stated to be accurate to better than a microsecond. The interrupt time on your system when quiet is a few microseconds. The NMEA response string is maybe good to a few msec at best ( even subtracting out the average delan due to the length of time it takes to read the string). Ie, the fluctuation in the string read time is probably like 10ms, a factor of about 1 worst than the pps. allright, understood Yes, 185 ms is about how long it takes to read the nmea string (about 70 characters as 4800 baud is about 1/6 of a second) YOu can tell ntp to subtract off say 180ms but that would still leave you with a sizeable jitter. Currently I'm syncing against NMEA/PPS and seeing quiet a big offset: For what? This looks exactly like what I would expect. remote refid st t when poll reach delay offset jitter == xGPS_NMEA(0) .GPS.0 l7 16 3770.000 -185.08 1.001 --- PPS(0) .PPS.0 l- 1600.0000.000 0.001 --- Now that I got it fully working - linux requires some patching of the nmea driver -, the offset is gone: +GPS_NMEA(0) .GPS.0 l8 16 3770.0000.003 0.001 oPPS(0) .PPS.0 l 14 16 3770.0000.002 0.001 -muur.intranet.v .DCFa. 1 u5 64 770.072 -9.207 0.023 -thegateap.intra .SHM.1 u 46 64 370.8730.931 0.045 SHM(0) .SHM0. 2 l- 6400.0000.000 0.001 SHM(1) .SHM1. 2 l- 6400.0000.000 0.001 SHM(2) .SHM2. 2 l- 6400.0000.000 0.001 SHM(3) .SHM3. 2 l- 6400.0000.000 0.001 NTP.MCAST.NET .MCST. 16 u- 6400.0000.000 0.001 192.168.64.0.BCST. 16 u- 6400.0000.000 0.001 -auth1.xs4all.nl 194.109.22.193 u 48 64 777.9451.514 1.158 -auth2.xs4all.nl 193.67.79.2022 u 46 64 779.450 -0.893 0.713 +ntp1.nl.uu.net .GPS.1 u 45 64 77 13.6930.173 9.097 *chime2.surfnet. .GPS.1 u 111 64 76 12.2620.387 1.092 -superboer12.stu 193.79.237.142 u 45 64 77 13.0124.401 2.248 +ntp.networking4 193.190.230.65 2 u 46 64 779.2420.444 0.494 +mailer.zylom.co 193.190.230.65 2 u 44 64 779.0400.430 0.538 -aivd.xelerance. 193.0.0.228 2 u 41 64 778.881 -0.610 3.154 What are you doing? Why all of these sources? The network sources are backup. The 'muur' and 'thegate' hosts are peer systems in my LAN (with their own radioclocks), MCST/BCST are for broadcasting/multicasting experiments and SHM0-3 are for my experiments with shared memory syncing. Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail är en flexibel redskap för att fälja logfilar, utför av commandoer, filtrera, ge färg, sammanfoga, o.s.v. följa. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] using both a PPS source and a HBG (dcf-77-like) timesource?
day, but I think that was for long distances, bouncing off the ionosphere which changed height at night. I'd expect it to be pretty stable if you are close to the transmitter - ground wave. HBG is in Switzerland if I remember correctly, and from your post, you are in Netherlands, correct so you can estimate propagation delay. However, I don't see why you would want to use an LF reference of lesser accuracy and estimated delay when you can use GPS. Just a thought. Well if I remember correctly someone said to me once that the time-string returned by cheap gps device (like my garmin 18 lvc) sometimes is a bit off while its PPS signal is fine. Currently I'm syncing against NMEA/PPS and seeing quiet a big offset: remote refid st t when poll reach delay offset jitter == xGPS_NMEA(0) .GPS.0 l7 16 3770.000 -185.08 1.001 --- PPS(0) .PPS.0 l- 1600.0000.000 0.001 --- -muur.intranet.v .DCFa. 1 u5 64 770.072 -9.207 0.023 -thegateap.intra .SHM.1 u 46 64 370.8730.931 0.045 SHM(0) .SHM0. 2 l- 6400.0000.000 0.001 SHM(1) .SHM1. 2 l- 6400.0000.000 0.001 SHM(2) .SHM2. 2 l- 6400.0000.000 0.001 SHM(3) .SHM3. 2 l- 6400.0000.000 0.001 NTP.MCAST.NET .MCST. 16 u- 6400.0000.000 0.001 192.168.64.0.BCST. 16 u- 6400.0000.000 0.001 -auth1.xs4all.nl 194.109.22.193 u 48 64 777.9451.514 1.158 -auth2.xs4all.nl 193.67.79.2022 u 46 64 779.450 -0.893 0.713 +ntp1.nl.uu.net .GPS.1 u 45 64 77 13.6930.173 9.097 *chime2.surfnet. .GPS.1 u 111 64 76 12.2620.387 1.092 -superboer12.stu 193.79.237.142 u 45 64 77 13.0124.401 2.248 +ntp.networking4 193.190.230.65 2 u 46 64 779.2420.444 0.494 +mailer.zylom.co 193.190.230.65 2 u 44 64 779.0400.430 0.538 -aivd.xelerance. 193.0.0.228 2 u 41 64 778.881 -0.610 3.154 Folkert van Heusden -- Ever wonder what is out there? Any alien races? Then please support the [EMAIL PROTECTED] project: setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] using both a PPS source and a HBG (dcf-77-like) timesource?
Well if I remember correctly someone said to me once that the time-string returned by cheap gps device (like my garmin 18 lvc) sometimes is a bit off while its PPS signal is fine. Currently I'm syncing against NMEA/PPS and seeing quiet a big offset: remote refid st t when poll reach delay offset jitter == xGPS_NMEA(0) .GPS.0 l7 16 3770.000 -185.08 1.001 --- snip You can even out that delay in the GPS time by using the 'fudge' option. Example: server 127.127.20.0 minpoll 4 fudge 127.127.20.0 time1 0.185 I do the same thing with my GPS 18 LVC, only I use gpsd with the SHM drivers. Ok but the odd thing is: a friend of mine has the exact same garmin 18 lvc but not this big offset? Folkert van Heusden -- Multitail es una herramienta flexible que permite visualizar los log file y seguir la ejecución de comandos. Permite filtrar, añadir colores, combinar archivos, la visualización de diferencias (diff- view), etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] using both a PPS source and a HBG (dcf-77-like) timesource?
Hi, To my pc I have connected a garmin 18lvc and a HBG radio clock receiver. Now what I would like to do is: - let the hbg receiver set the current time and when the HBG signal is not available (bad reception or the 59 seconds while it is receiving the broadcastmessage) use the PPS signal of the garmin for the PPS(! not the time, only the PPS) I read that for this I need to set: (my reference clock) # GUDE expertMouseClock HBG receiver server 127.127.8.0 mode 14 prefer fudge 127.127.8.0 refid HBG # use PPS signal from Garmin 18 LVC server 127.127.22.0 minpoll 4 maxpoll 4 fudge 127.127.22.0 flag flag2 1 Is this the correct way? How can I verify that it is using the PPS signal? Am I right that it currently does not work? Because it says noreply == poll: belle:/home/folkert# ntpq -c clockvar assID=0 status=0101 clk_noreply, last_clk_noreply, device=PPS Clock Discipline, timecode=, poll=11, noreply=11, badformat=0, baddata=0, fudgetime1=0.000, stratum=16, refid=80.80.83.0, flags=0 Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail är en flexibel redskap för att fälja logfilar, utför av commandoer, filtrera, ge färg, sammanfoga, o.s.v. följa. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] doing an ntpq -c clockvar on a specific reference clock
Hi, One of my systems has 2 reference clocks; a gps and a hbg radio clock. I would like to graph some clockvar variables of the hbg radio clock one. Now ntpq -c clockvar only returns the values of the first clock, the gps. How can I get the output of the hbg clock? clockvar can have a variable which is the association but this seems to be an other value each time ntpd is started. All help is appreciated! Folkert van Heusden -- -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] old linksys wrt54g accesspoint/router as ntp server?
Hi, Has anyone found a firmware for the wrt54g with an integrated ntp server? Folkert van Heusden -- -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] windows 2003 server sp 1 ntp
This has been discussed here so many times It's rarely worth repeating. Windows (w32time) is a sntp client at best, steps the clock and does not discipline it. The version introduced with Windows 2003 SP1 we know a lot less about. This is a statement based on outdated information. Yes, the 8-year-old Windows 2000 implementation was a poor SNTP implementation, with broken behavior. However, Microsoft claims recent versions to be a real implementation of NTPv3, and specifically references RFCv1305. Since there is no NTPv4 RFC published, I think this is reasonable. Yes. It does not respond to ntpq -c pe or ntptrace though :-( Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail ist eine flexible Applikation um Logfiles und Kommando Eingaben zu überprüfen. Inkl. Filter, Farben, Zusammenführen, Ansichten etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] precision in a driver
Hi, The precision-field set by a driver, what should one set there? If a clock gives ms values, -10? Or is it the real quality of the time-source? Like: maybe that on average the source has a quality of 10ms. Folkert van Heusden -- Multitail est un outil permettant la visualisation de fichiers de journalisation et/ou le suivi de l'exécution de commandes. Filtrage, mise en couleur de mot-clé, fusions, visualisation de différences (diff-view), etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] windows 2003 server sp 1 ntp
Win2003SP1 has some kind of ntp service running. Now I was wondering: can I via some clever registry hacks make that service sync against a couple of real ntp servers on the net? Windows time is a kludge. Just install NTP on the system and be done. Are you sure? I thought I read somewhere that 2000 xp had sntp, but(!) 2003 sp1 (and more recent) an full ntp server. Folkert van Heusden -- Ever wonder what is out there? Any alien races? Then please support the [EMAIL PROTECTED] project: setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] Why does the Conrad parallel port radio clock driver has a standard offset of 0.1725s?
Hi, While going through the documentation we found that the Conrad parallel port radio clock driver has a default offset calibration factor of 0.1725s. Why is that specific factor chosen? This is especially interesting as my GPS has an offset of -0.173s! Is that a coincidence? Folkert van Heusden -- Looking for a cheap but fast webhoster with an excellent helpdesk? http://keetweej.vanheusden.com/redir.php?id=1001 -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] why is this clock not even considered?
Hi, See this: remote refid st t when poll reach delay offset jitter == +belle.intranet. 192.87.106.2 2 u 251 256 3750.1056.605 0.122 +thegateap.intra 192.87.106.2 2 u 106 256 2771.2506.193 0.150 *mauer.intranet. .DCFa. 1 u 253 256 3770.1540.068 0.071 -auth1.xs4all.nl 193.79.237.142 u 53 256 2777.899 17.204 2.084 +ntp1.nl.uu.net .GPS.1 u8 256 337 13.5996.001 8.832 -ntp3-rz.rrze.un .DCFp. 1 u 21 256 377 29.5660.059 0.237 +ntps1-1.cs.tu-b .PPS.1 u 1043 256 360 29.7937.204 0.097 +chime1.surfnet. .GPS.1 u 42 256 3779.1356.485 2.794 SHM(0) .SHM.0 l 11 64 3770.000 -5.365 1.810 Why is the '.SHM.'-clock not even considered? Because of the negative offset? Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail cok yonlu kullanimli bir program, loglari okumak, verilen kommandolari yerine getirebilen. Filter, renk verme, merge, 'diff- view', vs. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] driver for Lindy Precision Clock MSF radio - testers wanted
Hi, Yesterday I started developing a driver for a clock-source for ntp. For simplicity sake I decided to write a shared memory driver. This driver is for the Lindy Precision Clock MSF radio receiver. It is still very beta- maybe even alpha-ish but it won't kill your computer or clock. http://www.vanheusden.com/misc/lindy_precision_clock.php Folkert van Heusden -- To MultiTail einai ena polymorfiko ergaleio gia ta logfiles kai tin eksodo twn entolwn. Prosferei: filtrarisma, xrwmatismo, sygxwneysi, diaforetikes provoles. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] ntp on AIX LPAR/DPAR?
Hi, Anyone running NTPd on an AIX system in an LPAR/DPAR? What are your experiences with this? Folkert van Heusden -- Multitail es una herramienta flexible que permite visualizar los log file y seguir la ejecución de comandos. Permite filtrar, añadir colores, combinar archivos, la visualización de diferencias (diff- view), etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] packet: pad header 020 / Leap not in sync
My ntpd won't sync. Situation: - windows 2003 server as ntp server - vmware esx 3.0.2 server as ntp client Virtual machines are best left unsynchronised. The host will This is not the virtual machine, it is the service console. And from what I've heard it's neccessary to keep it synced. Folkert van Heusden -- To MultiTail einai ena polymorfiko ergaleio gia ta logfiles kai tin eksodo twn entolwn. Prosferei: filtrarisma, xrwmatismo, sygxwneysi, diaforetikes provoles. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org https://lists.ntp.org/mailman/listinfo/questions
