Re: [racket-users] racket -m from commandline

[Wolfgang Hukriede]

Great, thanks David, that did the trick.
And someone might want to fix the "racket --help" output, if you ask me.
Happy holidays!


On 12/17/22, David Van Horn  wrote:
> You likely want to also use the -t option so that the module is required.
> Here's an example:
>
> % cat try.rkt
>
> #lang racket
>
> (provide main)
>
> (define (main . args)
>
>   (displayln (cons "HELLO:" args)))
>
> % racket -tm try.rkt there
>
> (HELLO: there)
>
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 11:50 AM whuk...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> racket --help says:
>>
>>   -m, --main
>>  Call `main` with command-line arguments, print results
>>
>> but I cannot get this to work. All I get is
>>
>> main: not defined or required into the top-level environment
>>
>> in all (to me) conceivable variants. Could anyone provide an actually
>> working example?
>> Please don't recommend books or so, I have a life.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> --
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>> .
>>
>> Beyond the Racket Users Google Group, Racket Discussions take place on
>> Discourse ( https://racket.discourse.group/ ) and Discord (
>> https://discord.gg/6Zq8sH5 ). Discussion (but less active) also takes
>> place on the Racket Slack https://racket.slack.com/ ( sign up at
>> https://racket-slack.herokuapp.com/ ), and IRC #racket
>> https://kiwiirc.com/nextclient/irc.libera.chat/#racket
>> ---
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>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [racket-users] racket -m from commandline

[David Van Horn]

You likely want to also use the -t option so that the module is required.
Here's an example:

% cat try.rkt

#lang racket

(provide main)

(define (main . args)

  (displayln (cons "HELLO:" args)))

% racket -tm try.rkt there

(HELLO: there)



On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 11:50 AM whuk...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> racket --help says:
>
>   -m, --main
>  Call `main` with command-line arguments, print results
>
> but I cannot get this to work. All I get is
>
> main: not defined or required into the top-level environment
>
> in all (to me) conceivable variants. Could anyone provide an actually
> working example?
> Please don't recommend books or so, I have a life.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Racket Users" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/beaa2ef6-afd2-4686-829a-390eb69f5620n%40googlegroups.com
> .
>
> Beyond the Racket Users Google Group, Racket Discussions take place on
> Discourse ( https://racket.discourse.group/ ) and Discord (
> https://discord.gg/6Zq8sH5 ). Discussion (but less active) also takes
> place on the Racket Slack https://racket.slack.com/ ( sign up at
> https://racket-slack.herokuapp.com/ ), and IRC #racket
> https://kiwiirc.com/nextclient/irc.libera.chat/#racket
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Racket Users" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/10d44364-fafb-4ead-9b35-2ed5a70f827fn%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>

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Discourse ( https://racket.discourse.group/ ) and Discord ( 
https://discord.gg/6Zq8sH5 ). Discussion (but less active) also takes place on 
the Racket Slack https://racket.slack.com/ ( sign up at 
https://racket-slack.herokuapp.com/ ), and IRC #racket 
https://kiwiirc.com/nextclient/irc.libera.chat/#racket
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[racket-users] racket -m from commandline

[whuk...@gmail.com]

racket --help says:

  -m, --main
 Call `main` with command-line arguments, print results

but I cannot get this to work. All I get is 

main: not defined or required into the top-level environment

in all (to me) conceivable variants. Could anyone provide an actually 
working example?
Please don't recommend books or so, I have a life.

Thanks.

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Beyond the Racket Users Google Group, Racket Discussions take place on 
Discourse ( https://racket.discourse.group/ ) and Discord ( 
https://discord.gg/6Zq8sH5 ). Discussion (but less active) also takes place on 
the Racket Slack https://racket.slack.com/ ( sign up at 
https://racket-slack.herokuapp.com/ ), and IRC #racket 
https://kiwiirc.com/nextclient/irc.libera.chat/#racket
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[racket-users] Racket v8.6 is now available

[Stephen De Gabrielle]

Racket v8.6 is now available from https://download.racket-lang.org/ 
Enhancements 
include equal-always?, stencil vectors, Windows on Arm64, simultaneous 
substitutions in Redex, enhancement to the Web Server, LOP build system and 
many other repairs and changes!

See https://blog.racket-lang.org/2022/08/racket-v8-6.html for details.


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[racket-users] Racket meet-up Saturday 5 March 18:00 UTC

[Stephen De Gabrielle]

# Racket meet-up Saturday 5 March 18:00 UTC

https://gather.town/app/wH1EDG3McffLjrs0/racket-users

Racket meet-up happen s the first Saturday EVERY Month at  UTC18:00

Meet-up thread
https://racket.discourse.group/t/racket-meet-up-saturday-5-march-minutes-and-discussion-thread/767?u=spdegabrielle

thank you to @dominik.pantucek for the write-up of the Feb meet-up:
https://racket.discourse.group/t/racket-meet-up-saturday-5-feb-18-00-utc/581/3?u=spdegabrielle

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[racket-users] Racket v8.4 released

['John Clements' via Racket Users]

Racket version 8.4 is now available from

https://racket-lang.org/



* Command-line Racket provides a new expression editor by default for
  its read-eval-print loop (REPL). The new REPL is based on the Chez
  Scheme expression editor, but extended to use the same
  language-sensitive syntax coloring and indentation tools as DrRacket.

* Typed Racket adds a kind system, preventing programmers from
  writing nonsensical type expressions. It checks whether type
  constructors are correctly applied to arguments, and separates
  type constructors from polymorphic types. The `:kind` form enables
  checking the kind of a type expression at the REPL. The new system
  also correctly rejects some ill-formed recursive types.

* Racket has a `file-or-directory-stat` for unified information about
  file-system objects.

* DrRacket shows the region affected by an `#;` S-expression comment
  by fading the commented-out region.

* Racket on Chez has faster multiplication and division for some
  numbers.

* Web server: The files dispatcher supports all standard caching-related
  HTTP response headers (e.g., Cache-Control).

* Web server: A new dispatcher captures the common pattern of processing
  HTTP requests and responses in a layered fashion.

* The Web Server supports use of the Cache-Control header, and includes
  a new wrapping dispatcher.

* Expander: add "portal" syntax to support new forms of syntax object
  binding.

* Documentation search is improved.

* Some hash operations support an optional `try-order?` argument.

* The plot-metrics interface has documentation.

* Fonts support OpenType feature settings.

* The Gui library has improved support for Wayland.

* The computation of quadratic roots is further improved.

* The `set/c` contract adds support for random generation.

* DrRacket's interactions window supports #lang-specific coloring
  and indentation.

* DrRacket's parenthesis-based keyboard shortcuts change based on
  the parentheses that each different #lang uses.

* The release includes many other bug repairs and other improvements!

Transition/Update notes:

* To turn off expeditor and make Racket's REPL go back to the old
  editline/readline-based editor, use the command

,input readline

  and then restart Racket. Get back to the new expression editor with

,input expeditor

  To toggle color mode for the new expression editor, use one of the
  following, which does not require restarting Racket:

,color #false
,color #true

* Support for comment fading in DrRacket requires an increment to
  the "WXME" format version so files with non-text content written
  by DrRacket v8.4 will open only in v8.4 and later. This does not
  affect files that consist only of unicode text.

* The addition of the kind system to Typed Racket means that certain
  mild abuses of the type system no longer type check, most notably
  the 'application' of a polymorphic type.


The following people contributed to this release:

Alex Harsányi, Alex Knauth, Alexander Shopov, Alexis King, Andrew
Mauer-Oats, Andy Keep, Ayman Osman, Ben Greenman, Bob Burger, Bogdan
Popa, Cameron Moy, D. Ben Knoble, Fred Fu, Greg Hendershott, Gustavo
Massaccesi, Jamie Taylor, Jarhmander, Jesse Alama, Joel Dueck, John
Clements, Jordan Johnson, Laurent Orseau, Leif Andersen, Marc Burns,
Matthew Flatt, Matthias Felleisen, Mike Engelhart, Mike Sperber, Noah
Ma, Oscar Waddell, Pavel Panchekha, Philip McGrath, rgkirch, Robby
Findler, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt, Sergiu Ivanov, Sorawee Porncharoenwase,
Stefan Schwarzer, Stephen De Gabrielle, Tony Garnock-Jones, Viko Riféo,
and Zachary Mao



Link to package regressions issue for the 8.4 release:
  https://github.com/racket/racket/issues/4125

Feedback Welcome

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[racket-users] Racket meet-up today!

[Stephen De Gabrielle]

Racket meet-up TODAY 8-jan-2022 utc 18:00
Come join us to show or see peoples latest racket projects
We will also show some early Creative Racket Competition 2022 Entries
https://gather.town/app/wH1EDG3McffLjrs0/racket-users

https://racket.discourse.group/t/creative-racket-competition-2022-january-1-2022-february-28-2022/454/5?u=spdegabrielle

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Re: [racket-users] Racket Discourse

[Damien Mattei]

i apologize ,the confirmation mail  was in the spam folder,
everything is fine now
thanks
Damien

On Tue, Nov 23, 2021 at 6:46 PM John Clements 
wrote:

> I’m sorry to hear that! Several things to check/try
>
> 1) I see the confirmation email coming from “rac...@discoursemail.com”,
> with subject line "[Racket Discussions] Confirm your new account”
>
> Maybe it’s in your junk folder?
>
> 2) You can always ignore the given url and just go to
> racket.discourse.group and sign up manually, perhaps that will work.
>
> Let me know if I can help any further, I do know that people have signed
> up using gmail accounts.
>
> John
>
> > On Nov 23, 2021, at 12:25, damien...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
> >
> > if i create an account following the link at the end of this message , i
> never get verification email at my google address i specified.
> >
> > On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 7:09:21 PM UTC+1 johnbclements wrote:
> > TL;DR: Go to
> >
> > https://racket.discourse.group/invites/okLTSrQw1T
> >
> > and sign up for Racket Discourse (https://racket.discourse.group/)
> >
> > # Thoughts behind the move:
> >
> > Over time, it has become steadily more apparent that email-only
> > mailing lists are an outdated communication medium for the Racket
> > community. More recent arrivals in our community have generally
> > chosen other platforms like slack or discord to carry on discussions.
> > As a result, the signal-to-noise ratio of the racket users mailing list
> > has dropped below the level of viability.
> >
> > In short, it’s time to give up on the mailing list.
> >
> > After a good deal of research, it looks like there’s room for a whole
> > bunch of discussion platforms for Racket, but it also seems as though
> > there should be a “permanent” one; it should be archived, it should be
> > searchable in its entirety, and it should not tie us to someone else’s
> > plan to monetize user data.
> >
> > Given these criteria, the winner is Discourse, an open-source
> > messaging platform built by Jeff Atwood, Robin Ward, and Sam
> > Saffron. It has a reasonable business model (they host projects like
> > ours unless they get really big, whereupon you can either host it
> > yourself or pay them to do it); it’s widely used by other language
> > communities; and it appears to do most of what we want.
> >
> > # So where can I sign up?
> >
> > Sign up here: https://racket.discourse.group/invites/okLTSrQw1T
> >
> > The discourse platform has been in a “soft opening” phase for about
> > two weeks now, since RacketCon, and we have about a hundred users.
> > You’re receiving this message because we’d like to have *YOU* there
> > as well.
> >
> > # Can I still receive messages like a mailing list?
> >
> > Yes, you can. I have it enabled myself!
> > To use discord as a mailing-list:
> > Sign up, go to Preferences > Email, and tick “Enable mailing list mode'.
> >
> > Yours,
> >
> > John Clements & Stephen De Gabrielle
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Racket Users" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> > To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/a1cc04f5-25f6-4d0e-aeda-a656c18e5604n%40googlegroups.com
> .
>
>

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Re: [racket-users] Racket Discourse

['John Clements' via Racket Users]

I’m sorry to hear that! Several things to check/try

1) I see the confirmation email coming from “rac...@discoursemail.com”, with 
subject line "[Racket Discussions] Confirm your new account”

Maybe it’s in your junk folder?

2) You can always ignore the given url and just go to racket.discourse.group 
and sign up manually, perhaps that will work.

Let me know if I can help any further, I do know that people have signed up 
using gmail accounts.

John

> On Nov 23, 2021, at 12:25, damien...@gmail.com  
> wrote:
> 
> if i create an account following the link at the end of this message , i 
> never get verification email at my google address i specified.
> 
> On Sunday, November 21, 2021 at 7:09:21 PM UTC+1 johnbclements wrote:
> TL;DR: Go to 
> 
> https://racket.discourse.group/invites/okLTSrQw1T 
> 
> and sign up for Racket Discourse (https://racket.discourse.group/) 
> 
> # Thoughts behind the move: 
> 
> Over time, it has become steadily more apparent that email-only 
> mailing lists are an outdated communication medium for the Racket 
> community. More recent arrivals in our community have generally 
> chosen other platforms like slack or discord to carry on discussions. 
> As a result, the signal-to-noise ratio of the racket users mailing list 
> has dropped below the level of viability. 
> 
> In short, it’s time to give up on the mailing list. 
> 
> After a good deal of research, it looks like there’s room for a whole 
> bunch of discussion platforms for Racket, but it also seems as though 
> there should be a “permanent” one; it should be archived, it should be 
> searchable in its entirety, and it should not tie us to someone else’s 
> plan to monetize user data. 
> 
> Given these criteria, the winner is Discourse, an open-source 
> messaging platform built by Jeff Atwood, Robin Ward, and Sam 
> Saffron. It has a reasonable business model (they host projects like 
> ours unless they get really big, whereupon you can either host it 
> yourself or pay them to do it); it’s widely used by other language 
> communities; and it appears to do most of what we want. 
> 
> # So where can I sign up? 
> 
> Sign up here: https://racket.discourse.group/invites/okLTSrQw1T 
> 
> The discourse platform has been in a “soft opening” phase for about 
> two weeks now, since RacketCon, and we have about a hundred users. 
> You’re receiving this message because we’d like to have *YOU* there 
> as well. 
> 
> # Can I still receive messages like a mailing list? 
> 
> Yes, you can. I have it enabled myself! 
> To use discord as a mailing-list: 
> Sign up, go to Preferences > Email, and tick “Enable mailing list mode'. 
> 
> Yours, 
> 
> John Clements & Stephen De Gabrielle 
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Racket Users" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/a1cc04f5-25f6-4d0e-aeda-a656c18e5604n%40googlegroups.com.

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Re: [racket-users] Racket Discourse

[Sage Gerard]

Thanks!

On 11/22/21 9:58 AM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 22, 2021 at 9:52 AM Sage Gerard  wrote:
>> Thanks for checking on this. I'd expect something like a CoC more than a ToS 
>> in this case, but terms are terms :)
> The discourse site is hosted by the people who make/run Discourse the
> project, you can read about them here: https://www.discourse.org/team
>
> I believe that this mailing list is covered by the general Google
> terms of service, here: https://policies.google.com/terms?hl=en-US and
> the Google Groups content policy here:
> https://support.google.com/groups/answer/4561696?hl=en
>
>> If you don't mind, I have a couple of follow up questions.
>>
>> Were "rank-and-file" Racket contributors alerted to this change in advance? 
>> Say, in a RacketCon speech? I may have missed it.
> I announced it in the State of Racket talk at RacketCon.
>
>> Did a sponsor play any role in this transition?
> The Discourse site is free based on the Free-for-open-source version
> of Discourse, but no sponsorship is involved.
>
> Sam
>
>> On 11/22/21 9:49 AM, John Clements wrote:
>>
>> I’m actually very heartened to see the boilerplate here; it sounds like this 
>> is something we can edit, and not something imposed by Discourse. If that’s 
>> the case, then it certainly seems likely that we can find some language (or, 
>> more importantly, *lack* of language) that makes more of us happy.
>>
>> I, for one, am shocked to see binding arbitration language in here: I think 
>> binding arbitration is one of the most revolting elements of corporate 
>> control in our society today, and if we were unable to remove the binding 
>> arbitration clause, I would likely abandon discourse myself.
>>
>> Sounds like the next step is to come up with a TOS that’s acceptable to all, 
>> or find a way to remove it entirely.
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Nov 22, 2021, at 04:54, Norman Gray  wrote:
>>
>>
>> Greetings.
>>
>> On 22 Nov 2021, at 4:24, Sage Gerard wrote:
>>
>> But I have to ask, who wrote the ToS? Who is "the company" in its
>>
>> context? Discord? One of the Racket team's universities? A sponsor?
>>
>> I'm not sure who 'the company' is, either, but they appear to be called 
>> 'company_name' (catchy!), and that users are notified that disputes can only 
>> be arbitrated in city_for_disputes, under governing_law. *cough*
>>
>> Such curiosities aside, all of that does represent unappealingly more 
>> legalese than one expects for a mailing list.  But since the current list is 
>> hosted at googlegroups, and since it's not obvious that Discourse Corp is 
>> more predatory than Google Corp (indeed, the former is dispensing 
>> freemium-ware rather than ad-ware, so are more attractive in terms of 
>> business model), it feels irrational for me to be too put off by it.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Norman
>>
>>
>> --
>> Norman Gray  :  https://nxg.me.uk
>> SUPA School of Physics and Astronomy, University of Glasgow, UK
>>
>> --
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Re: [racket-users] Racket Discourse

[Sage Gerard]

Gotcha, thanks. As long as we were warned! I thought I remembered Sam
mentioning something along the lines of an "AWS grant," but my memory is
unreliable here.

On 11/22/21 9:57 AM, John Clements wrote:
> Good questions:
>
> 1) Yes, Sam mentioned the discourse group at RacketCon, and there was some 
> “hallway” discussion about it.
> 2) No, no sponsor was involved. Yikes! Indeed, I’m not aware that Racket 
> *has* any sponsors currently, aside from the research and infrastructure 
> grants that are being funded by the NSF et cetera.
>
> John
>
>> On Nov 22, 2021, at 09:52, Sage Gerard  wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for checking on this. I'd expect something like a CoC more than a ToS 
>> in this case, but terms are terms :)
>> If you don't mind, I have a couple of follow up questions.
>>
>>  • Were "rank-and-file" Racket contributors alerted to this change in 
>> advance? Say, in a RacketCon speech? I may have missed it.
>>  • Did a sponsor play any role in this transition?
>> On 11/22/21 9:49 AM, John Clements wrote:
>>> I’m actually very heartened to see the boilerplate here; it sounds like 
>>> this is something we can edit, and not something imposed by Discourse. If 
>>> that’s the case, then it certainly seems likely that we can find some 
>>> language (or, more importantly, *lack* of language) that makes more of us 
>>> happy.
>>>
>>> I, for one, am shocked to see binding arbitration language in here: I think 
>>> binding arbitration is one of the most revolting elements of corporate 
>>> control in our society today, and if we were unable to remove the binding 
>>> arbitration clause, I would likely abandon discourse myself.
>>>
>>> Sounds like the next step is to come up with a TOS that’s acceptable to 
>>> all, or find a way to remove it entirely.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
 On Nov 22, 2021, at 04:54, Norman Gray 
   wrote:


 Greetings.

 On 22 Nov 2021, at 4:24, Sage Gerard wrote:


> But I have to ask, who wrote the ToS? Who is "the company" in its
>
> context? Discord? One of the Racket team's universities? A sponsor?
>
 I'm not sure who 'the company' is, either, but they appear to be called 
 'company_name' (catchy!), and that users are notified that disputes can 
 only be arbitrated in city_for_disputes, under governing_law. *cough*

 Such curiosities aside, all of that does represent unappealingly more 
 legalese than one expects for a mailing list.  But since the current list 
 is hosted at googlegroups, and since it's not obvious that Discourse Corp 
 is more predatory than Google Corp (indeed, the former is dispensing 
 freemium-ware rather than ad-ware, so are more attractive in terms of 
 business model), it feels irrational for me to be too put off by it.

 Best wishes,

 Norman


 --
 Norman Gray  :
 https://nxg.me.uk

 SUPA School of Physics and Astronomy, University of Glasgow, UK

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Re: [racket-users] Racket Discourse

['John Clements' via Racket Users]

Good questions:

1) Yes, Sam mentioned the discourse group at RacketCon, and there was some 
“hallway” discussion about it.
2) No, no sponsor was involved. Yikes! Indeed, I’m not aware that Racket *has* 
any sponsors currently, aside from the research and infrastructure grants that 
are being funded by the NSF et cetera.

John

> On Nov 22, 2021, at 09:52, Sage Gerard  wrote:
> 
> Thanks for checking on this. I'd expect something like a CoC more than a ToS 
> in this case, but terms are terms :)
> If you don't mind, I have a couple of follow up questions.
> 
>   • Were "rank-and-file" Racket contributors alerted to this change in 
> advance? Say, in a RacketCon speech? I may have missed it.
>   • Did a sponsor play any role in this transition?
> On 11/22/21 9:49 AM, John Clements wrote:
>> I’m actually very heartened to see the boilerplate here; it sounds like this 
>> is something we can edit, and not something imposed by Discourse. If that’s 
>> the case, then it certainly seems likely that we can find some language (or, 
>> more importantly, *lack* of language) that makes more of us happy.
>> 
>> I, for one, am shocked to see binding arbitration language in here: I think 
>> binding arbitration is one of the most revolting elements of corporate 
>> control in our society today, and if we were unable to remove the binding 
>> arbitration clause, I would likely abandon discourse myself.
>> 
>> Sounds like the next step is to come up with a TOS that’s acceptable to all, 
>> or find a way to remove it entirely.
>> 
>> John
>> 
>> 
>>> On Nov 22, 2021, at 04:54, Norman Gray 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Greetings.
>>> 
>>> On 22 Nov 2021, at 4:24, Sage Gerard wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
 But I have to ask, who wrote the ToS? Who is "the company" in its
 
 context? Discord? One of the Racket team's universities? A sponsor?
 
>>> I'm not sure who 'the company' is, either, but they appear to be called 
>>> 'company_name' (catchy!), and that users are notified that disputes can 
>>> only be arbitrated in city_for_disputes, under governing_law. *cough*
>>> 
>>> Such curiosities aside, all of that does represent unappealingly more 
>>> legalese than one expects for a mailing list.  But since the current list 
>>> is hosted at googlegroups, and since it's not obvious that Discourse Corp 
>>> is more predatory than Google Corp (indeed, the former is dispensing 
>>> freemium-ware rather than ad-ware, so are more attractive in terms of 
>>> business model), it feels irrational for me to be too put off by it.
>>> 
>>> Best wishes,
>>> 
>>> Norman
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Norman Gray  :  
>>> https://nxg.me.uk
>>> 
>>> SUPA School of Physics and Astronomy, University of Glasgow, UK
>>> 
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "Racket Users" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to 
>>> racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>>> .
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/BEC261BF-C274-4221-8F62-C77D181ED1EF%40glasgow.ac.uk
>>> .
>>> 

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Re: [racket-users] Racket Discourse

[Sage Gerard]

Thanks for checking on this. I'd expect something like a CoC more than a ToS in 
this case, but terms are terms :)

If you don't mind, I have a couple of follow up questions.

- Were "rank-and-file" Racket contributors alerted to this change in advance? 
Say, in a RacketCon speech? I may have missed it.
- Did a sponsor play any role in this transition?

On 11/22/21 9:49 AM, John Clements wrote:

> I’m actually very heartened to see the boilerplate here; it sounds like this 
> is something we can edit, and not something imposed by Discourse. If that’s 
> the case, then it certainly seems likely that we can find some language (or, 
> more importantly, *lack* of language) that makes more of us happy.
>
> I, for one, am shocked to see binding arbitration language in here: I think 
> binding arbitration is one of the most revolting elements of corporate 
> control in our society today, and if we were unable to remove the binding 
> arbitration clause, I would likely abandon discourse myself.
>
> Sounds like the next step is to come up with a TOS that’s acceptable to all, 
> or find a way to remove it entirely.
>
> John
>
>> On Nov 22, 2021, at 04:54, Norman Gray
>> [](mailto:norman.g...@glasgow.ac.uk)
>> wrote:
>>
>> Greetings.
>>
>> On 22 Nov 2021, at 4:24, Sage Gerard wrote:
>>
>>> But I have to ask, who wrote the ToS? Who is "the company" in its
>>>
>>> context? Discord? One of the Racket team's universities? A sponsor?
>>
>> I'm not sure who 'the company' is, either, but they appear to be called 
>> 'company_name' (catchy!), and that users are notified that disputes can only 
>> be arbitrated in city_for_disputes, under governing_law. *cough*
>>
>> Such curiosities aside, all of that does represent unappealingly more 
>> legalese than one expects for a mailing list.  But since the current list is 
>> hosted at googlegroups, and since it's not obvious that Discourse Corp is 
>> more predatory than Google Corp (indeed, the former is dispensing 
>> freemium-ware rather than ad-ware, so are more attractive in terms of 
>> business model), it feels irrational for me to be too put off by it.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Norman
>>
>> --
>> Norman Gray  :
>> https://nxg.me.uk
>> SUPA School of Physics and Astronomy, University of Glasgow, UK
>>
>> --
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>> "Racket Users" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to
>> racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>> .
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/BEC261BF-C274-4221-8F62-C77D181ED1EF%40glasgow.ac.uk
>> .

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Re: [racket-users] Racket Discourse

['John Clements' via Racket Users]

I’m actually very heartened to see the boilerplate here; it sounds like this is 
something we can edit, and not something imposed by Discourse. If that’s the 
case, then it certainly seems likely that we can find some language (or, more 
importantly, *lack* of language) that makes more of us happy.

I, for one, am shocked to see binding arbitration language in here: I think 
binding arbitration is one of the most revolting elements of corporate control 
in our society today, and if we were unable to remove the binding arbitration 
clause, I would likely abandon discourse myself.

Sounds like the next step is to come up with a TOS that’s acceptable to all, or 
find a way to remove it entirely.

John

> On Nov 22, 2021, at 04:54, Norman Gray  wrote:
> 
> 
> Greetings.
> 
> On 22 Nov 2021, at 4:24, Sage Gerard wrote:
> 
>> But I have to ask, who wrote the ToS? Who is "the company" in its
>> 
>> context? Discord? One of the Racket team's universities? A sponsor?
> 
> I'm not sure who 'the company' is, either, but they appear to be called 
> 'company_name' (catchy!), and that users are notified that disputes can only 
> be arbitrated in city_for_disputes, under governing_law. *cough*
> 
> Such curiosities aside, all of that does represent unappealingly more 
> legalese than one expects for a mailing list.  But since the current list is 
> hosted at googlegroups, and since it's not obvious that Discourse Corp is 
> more predatory than Google Corp (indeed, the former is dispensing 
> freemium-ware rather than ad-ware, so are more attractive in terms of 
> business model), it feels irrational for me to be too put off by it.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Norman
> 
> 
> -- 
> Norman Gray  :  https://nxg.me.uk
> SUPA School of Physics and Astronomy, University of Glasgow, UK
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Racket Users" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
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Re: [racket-users] Racket Discourse

[Norman Gray]

Greetings.

On 22 Nov 2021, at 4:24, Sage Gerard wrote:

> But I have to ask, who wrote the ToS? Who is "the company" in its
>
>  context? Discord? One of the Racket team's universities? A sponsor?

I'm not sure who 'the company' is, either, but they appear to be called 
'company_name' (catchy!), and that users are notified that disputes can only be 
arbitrated in city_for_disputes, under governing_law. *cough*

Such curiosities aside, all of that does represent unappealingly more legalese 
than one expects for a mailing list.  But since the current list is hosted at 
googlegroups, and since it's not obvious that Discourse Corp is more predatory 
than Google Corp (indeed, the former is dispensing freemium-ware rather than 
ad-ware, so are more attractive in terms of business model), it feels 
irrational for me to be too put off by it.

Best wishes,

Norman


-- 
Norman Gray  :  https://nxg.me.uk
SUPA School of Physics and Astronomy, University of Glasgow, UK

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Re: [racket-users] Racket Discourse

[Stephen De Gabrielle]

Hi Sage,

It looks like the same text, and has the same last updated date, as the
Haskell Discourse TOS.
I think it is the default text provided by Discourse for the free hosting.

I don't think anyone has the time or expertise to rewrite it, but I'm sure
specific items could be looked at if they are a barrier to participating.

best wishes

Stephen

https://discourse.haskell.org/tos

https://blog.discourse.org/2018/11/free-hosting-for-open-source-v2/


On Mon, Nov 22, 2021 at 4:24 AM Sage Gerard  wrote:

> Also: Apologies. That came off as rude. No offense intended.
>
> But I have to ask, who wrote the ToS? Who is "the company" in its
> context? Discord? One of the Racket team's universities? A sponsor?
>
> On 11/21/21 11:20 PM, Sage Gerard wrote:
> > Thanks for letting us know. When should people expect to unsubscribe?
> >
> > I read the ToS, privacy policy, and thoughts. Hard pass.
> >
> > On 11/21/21 1:09 PM, 'John Clements' via Racket Users wrote:
> >> TL;DR: Go to
> >>
> >> https://racket.discourse.group/invites/okLTSrQw1T
> >>
> >> and sign up for Racket Discourse (https://racket.discourse.group/)
> >>
> >> # Thoughts behind the move:
> >>
> >> Over time, it has become steadily more apparent that email-only
> >> mailing lists are an outdated communication medium for the Racket
> >> community. More recent arrivals in our community have generally
> >> chosen other platforms like slack or discord to carry on discussions.
> >> As a result, the signal-to-noise ratio of the racket users mailing list
> >> has dropped below the level of viability.
> >>
> >> In short, it’s time to give up on the mailing list.
> >>
> >> After a good deal of research, it looks like there’s room for a whole
> >> bunch of discussion platforms for Racket, but it also seems as though
> >> there should be a “permanent” one; it should be archived, it should be
> >> searchable in its entirety, and it should not tie us to someone else’s
> >> plan to monetize user data.
> >>
> >> Given these criteria, the winner is Discourse, an open-source
> >> messaging platform built by Jeff Atwood, Robin Ward, and Sam
> >> Saffron. It has a reasonable business model (they host projects like
> >> ours unless they get really big, whereupon you can either host it
> >> yourself or pay them to do it); it’s widely used by other language
> >> communities; and it appears to do most of what we want.
> >>
> >> # So where can I sign up?
> >>
> >> Sign up here: https://racket.discourse.group/invites/okLTSrQw1T
> >>
> >> The discourse platform has been in a “soft opening” phase for about
> >> two weeks now, since RacketCon, and we have about a hundred users.
> >> You’re receiving this message because we’d like to have *YOU* there
> >> as well.
> >>
> >> # Can I still receive messages like a mailing list?
> >>
> >> Yes, you can. I have it enabled myself!
> >> To use discord as a mailing-list:
> >> Sign up, go to Preferences > Email, and tick “Enable mailing list mode'.
> >>
> >> Yours,
> >>
> >> John Clements & Stephen De Gabrielle
> >>
> >> --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> >> Groups "Racket Users" group.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> >> send an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> >> To view this discussion on the web visit
> >>
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/9d080367-1b70-4818-8e76-8c6714db404c%40mtasv.net
> .
>
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Re: [racket-users] Racket Discourse

['John Clements' via Racket Users]

Many thanks for your thoughts. I appreciate that your time and inbox space is 
at a premium, and I’ll try to be careful about posting things to more than one 
forum.

Best,

John Clements

> On Nov 21, 2021, at 22:53, Sorawee Porncharoenwase  
> wrote:
> 
> My personal opinion is that, if we want Discourse to be a replacement of the 
> mailing list, then we should treat it like one. Right now, it’s a combination 
> of the mailing list, wiki, FAQ site, and whatnot. And I don’t want one more 
> email in my inbox when someone decides to add an entry to the FAQ.
> 
> As concrete examples, consider:
> 
>   • 
> https://racket.discourse.group/t/urlang-is-javascript-with-a-sane-syntax/119
>   • https://racket.discourse.group/t/gui-builder-designer/151
> I’m not sure what’s the point of these posts in the context of the mailing 
> list. Stephen definitely knows MrEd designer and has been promoting it for 
> years, so this looks like his attempt to build a wiki/FAQ on Discourse. While 
> I really do appreciate Stephen’s effort into building and maintaining the 
> valuable wiki/FAQ at https://github.com/racket/racket/wiki, I personally 
> don’t think a mailing list is an appropriate medium for it. Urlang is great, 
> but I don’t understand why we are rehashing it now on Discourse. Will we also 
> see 1735 more posts to rehash every package on the package website in the 
> future?
> 
> Another issue is cross posting. Often posts are shared to all Slack, Discord, 
> Reddit, the current mailing list, and whatnot (and also in the other 
> direction). It makes sense to do that for event announcements. I’m not sure 
> the same can be said for other posts. They are inundating (at least to me), 
> especially if they happen a lot.
> 
> I understand that there's a spam problem on the current mailing list and in 
> fact have been complaining constantly on Slack. I actually even proposed to 
> Sam last year to consider Discourse as a replacement of the mailing list, so 
> I'm not against the software at all if that's what you worry about.
> 
> To be clear, no offense to anyone at all. It could be that my expectation of 
> the mailing list is far off from most people, and if that’s the case, I’d 
> simply excuse myself from it.
> 
> On Sun, Nov 21, 2021 at 3:42 PM Philip McGrath  
> wrote:
> I've long been in the basically-content-with-the-mailing-list camp, but I've 
> recently come around to the view that the status quo is untenable. I looked 
> into it after Racket 'Con and discovered the mailing list had shrunk 
> especially much for me, because the Google Groups spam filters were letting 
> through so much spam that Google spam filters on one hop of my receiving side 
> have been classifying a great deal of legitimate mailing list traffic as spam.
> 
> I haven't done much with Discourse yet, but it seems promising, and I hope it 
> works out.
> 
> I'd guess the list administrators have tried this already, but, just in case, 
> the Google Group settings should have a "Spam message handling" setting that 
> could be set to "Moderate without notifying content moderators" (see 
> https://support.google.com/groups/answer/2464926?hl=en#posting=%2Csettings-reference%2Cadvanced-settings-reference).
>  If this is the official moment for giving up on this mailing list, it would 
> probably be good to turn up these settings to some draconian level anyway, 
> just to leave one fewer spam target on the internet.
> 
> -Philip
> 
> On Sun, Nov 21, 2021 at 6:08 PM 'John Clements' via Racket Users 
>  wrote:
> Wait, you think that’s high traffic? Gee whiz, the mailing list *has* shrunk, 
> hasn’t it?
> 
> Okay, that was not an entirely serious reply, but I do think that in contrast 
> to the discord & slack channels, the discourse is likely to be searchable and 
> at least lightly curated six months from now. Also, if you take a look at the 
> mailing list archive 
> 
> https://www.mail-archive.com/racket-users@googlegroups.com/
> 
> … you’ll see a *shocking* amount of spam. Many of us don’t see this because 
> we have semi-reasonable spam filters, but others are putting up with what 
> looks like more than 50% spam on this list. That’s just not acceptable.
> 
> John
> 
> 
> > On Nov 21, 2021, at 14:14, Sorawee Porncharoenwase 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > I could be in the minority here, but as an early proponent of Discourse to 
> > replace the mailing list (even before RacketCon), I feel reluctant to join 
> > it after observing it for a while. It has a very high traffic, with almost 
> > 100% of the contents being cross-posted everywhere else (and vice versa) 
> > anyway.
> > 
> > While I appreciate any efforts into promoting the site, I do think 
> > different content has different appropriate mediums. For example, FAQs 
> > probably should go to the wiki. There's no need to clutter anyone's inbox 
> > for this type of content.
> > 
> > On Sun, Nov 21, 2021 at 10:09 AM 'John Clements' via Racket Users 
> >  wrote:
> > TL;DR: Go to
> > 

Re: [racket-users] Racket Discourse

[Sage Gerard]

Also: Apologies. That came off as rude. No offense intended.

But I have to ask, who wrote the ToS? Who is "the company" in its
context? Discord? One of the Racket team's universities? A sponsor?

On 11/21/21 11:20 PM, Sage Gerard wrote:
> Thanks for letting us know. When should people expect to unsubscribe?
>
> I read the ToS, privacy policy, and thoughts. Hard pass.
>
> On 11/21/21 1:09 PM, 'John Clements' via Racket Users wrote:
>> TL;DR: Go to
>>
>>     https://racket.discourse.group/invites/okLTSrQw1T
>>
>> and sign up for Racket Discourse (https://racket.discourse.group/)
>>
>> # Thoughts behind the move:
>>
>> Over time, it has become steadily more apparent that email-only
>> mailing lists are an outdated communication medium for the Racket
>> community. More recent arrivals in our community have generally
>> chosen other platforms like slack or discord to carry on discussions.
>> As a result, the signal-to-noise ratio of the racket users mailing list
>> has dropped below the level of viability.
>>
>> In short, it’s time to give up on the mailing list.
>>
>> After a good deal of research, it looks like there’s room for a whole
>> bunch of discussion platforms for Racket, but it also seems as though
>> there should be a “permanent” one; it should be archived, it should be
>> searchable in its entirety, and it should not tie us to someone else’s
>> plan to monetize user data.
>>
>> Given these criteria, the winner is Discourse, an open-source
>> messaging platform built by Jeff Atwood, Robin Ward, and Sam
>> Saffron. It has a reasonable business model (they host projects like
>> ours unless they get really big, whereupon you can either host it
>> yourself or pay them to do it); it’s widely used by other language
>> communities; and it appears to do most of what we want.
>>
>> # So where can I sign up?
>>
>> Sign up here: https://racket.discourse.group/invites/okLTSrQw1T
>>
>> The discourse platform has been in a “soft opening” phase for about
>> two weeks now, since RacketCon, and we have about a hundred users.
>> You’re receiving this message because we’d like to have *YOU* there
>> as well.
>>
>> # Can I still receive messages like a mailing list?
>>
>> Yes, you can. I have it enabled myself!
>> To use discord as a mailing-list:
>> Sign up, go to Preferences > Email, and tick “Enable mailing list mode'.
>>
>> Yours,
>>
>> John Clements & Stephen De Gabrielle
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "Racket Users" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>> send an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/9d080367-1b70-4818-8e76-8c6714db404c%40mtasv.net.

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Re: [racket-users] Racket Discourse

[Sage Gerard]

Thanks for letting us know. When should people expect to unsubscribe?

I read the ToS, privacy policy, and thoughts. Hard pass.

On 11/21/21 1:09 PM, 'John Clements' via Racket Users wrote:
> TL;DR: Go to
>
> https://racket.discourse.group/invites/okLTSrQw1T
>
> and sign up for Racket Discourse (https://racket.discourse.group/)
>
> # Thoughts behind the move:
>
> Over time, it has become steadily more apparent that email-only
> mailing lists are an outdated communication medium for the Racket
> community. More recent arrivals in our community have generally
> chosen other platforms like slack or discord to carry on discussions.
> As a result, the signal-to-noise ratio of the racket users mailing list
> has dropped below the level of viability.
>
> In short, it’s time to give up on the mailing list.
>
> After a good deal of research, it looks like there’s room for a whole
> bunch of discussion platforms for Racket, but it also seems as though
> there should be a “permanent” one; it should be archived, it should be
> searchable in its entirety, and it should not tie us to someone else’s
> plan to monetize user data.
>
> Given these criteria, the winner is Discourse, an open-source
> messaging platform built by Jeff Atwood, Robin Ward, and Sam
> Saffron. It has a reasonable business model (they host projects like
> ours unless they get really big, whereupon you can either host it
> yourself or pay them to do it); it’s widely used by other language
> communities; and it appears to do most of what we want.
>
> # So where can I sign up?
>
> Sign up here: https://racket.discourse.group/invites/okLTSrQw1T
>
> The discourse platform has been in a “soft opening” phase for about
> two weeks now, since RacketCon, and we have about a hundred users.
> You’re receiving this message because we’d like to have *YOU* there
> as well.
>
> # Can I still receive messages like a mailing list?
>
> Yes, you can. I have it enabled myself!
> To use discord as a mailing-list:
> Sign up, go to Preferences > Email, and tick “Enable mailing list mode'.
>
> Yours,
>
> John Clements & Stephen De Gabrielle
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Racket Users" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/9d080367-1b70-4818-8e76-8c6714db404c%40mtasv.net.

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Re: [racket-users] Racket Discourse

[Sorawee Porncharoenwase]

My personal opinion is that, if we want Discourse to be a replacement of
the mailing list, then we should treat it like one. Right now, it’s a
combination of the mailing list, wiki, FAQ site, and whatnot. And I don’t
want one more email in my inbox when someone decides to add an entry to the
FAQ.

As concrete examples, consider:

   -
   https://racket.discourse.group/t/urlang-is-javascript-with-a-sane-syntax/119
   - https://racket.discourse.group/t/gui-builder-designer/151

I’m not sure what’s the point of these posts *in the context of the mailing
list*. Stephen definitely knows MrEd designer and has been promoting it for
years, so this looks like his attempt to build a wiki/FAQ on Discourse.
While I really do appreciate Stephen’s effort into building and maintaining
the valuable wiki/FAQ at https://github.com/racket/racket/wiki, I
personally don’t think a mailing list is an appropriate medium for it.
Urlang is great, but I don’t understand why we are rehashing it now on
Discourse. Will we also see 1735 more posts to rehash every package on the
package website in the future?

Another issue is cross posting. Often posts are shared to all Slack,
Discord, Reddit, the current mailing list, and whatnot (and also in the
other direction). It makes sense to do that for event announcements. I’m
not sure the same can be said for other posts. They are inundating (at
least to me), especially if they happen a lot.

I understand that there's a spam problem on the current mailing list and in
fact have been complaining constantly on Slack. I actually even proposed to
Sam last year to consider Discourse as a replacement of the mailing list,
so I'm not against the software at all if that's what you worry about.

To be clear, no offense to anyone at all. It could be that my expectation
of the mailing list is far off from most people, and if that’s the case,
I’d simply excuse myself from it.
On Sun, Nov 21, 2021 at 3:42 PM Philip McGrath 
wrote:

> I've long been in the basically-content-with-the-mailing-list camp, but
> I've recently come around to the view that the status quo is untenable. I
> looked into it after Racket 'Con and discovered the mailing list had shrunk
> especially much for me, because the Google Groups spam filters were letting
> through so much spam that Google spam filters on one hop of my receiving
> side have been classifying a great deal of legitimate mailing list traffic
> as spam.
>
> I haven't done much with Discourse yet, but it seems promising, and I hope
> it works out.
>
> I'd guess the list administrators have tried this already, but, just in
> case, the Google Group settings should have a "Spam message handling"
> setting that could be set to "Moderate without notifying content
> moderators" (see
> https://support.google.com/groups/answer/2464926?hl=en#posting=%2Csettings-reference%2Cadvanced-settings-reference).
> If this is the official moment for giving up on this mailing list, it would
> probably be good to turn up these settings to some draconian level anyway,
> just to leave one fewer spam target on the internet.
>
> -Philip
>
> On Sun, Nov 21, 2021 at 6:08 PM 'John Clements' via Racket Users <
> racket-users@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> Wait, you think that’s high traffic? Gee whiz, the mailing list *has*
>> shrunk, hasn’t it?
>>
>> Okay, that was not an entirely serious reply, but I do think that in
>> contrast to the discord & slack channels, the discourse is likely to be
>> searchable and at least lightly curated six months from now. Also, if you
>> take a look at the mailing list archive
>>
>> https://www.mail-archive.com/racket-users@googlegroups.com/
>>
>> … you’ll see a *shocking* amount of spam. Many of us don’t see this
>> because we have semi-reasonable spam filters, but others are putting up
>> with what looks like more than 50% spam on this list. That’s just not
>> acceptable.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>> > On Nov 21, 2021, at 14:14, Sorawee Porncharoenwase <
>> sorawee.pw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > I could be in the minority here, but as an early proponent of Discourse
>> to replace the mailing list (even before RacketCon), I feel reluctant to
>> join it after observing it for a while. It has a very high traffic, with
>> almost 100% of the contents being cross-posted everywhere else (and vice
>> versa) anyway.
>> >
>> > While I appreciate any efforts into promoting the site, I do think
>> different content has different appropriate mediums. For example, FAQs
>> probably should go to the wiki. There's no need to clutter anyone's inbox
>> for this type of content.
>> >
>> > On Sun, Nov 21, 2021 at 10:09 AM 'John Clements' via Racket Users &

Re: [racket-users] Racket Discourse

[Philip McGrath]

I've long been in the basically-content-with-the-mailing-list camp, but
I've recently come around to the view that the status quo is untenable. I
looked into it after Racket 'Con and discovered the mailing list had shrunk
especially much for me, because the Google Groups spam filters were letting
through so much spam that Google spam filters on one hop of my receiving
side have been classifying a great deal of legitimate mailing list traffic
as spam.

I haven't done much with Discourse yet, but it seems promising, and I hope
it works out.

I'd guess the list administrators have tried this already, but, just in
case, the Google Group settings should have a "Spam message handling"
setting that could be set to "Moderate without notifying content
moderators" (see
https://support.google.com/groups/answer/2464926?hl=en#posting=%2Csettings-reference%2Cadvanced-settings-reference).
If this is the official moment for giving up on this mailing list, it would
probably be good to turn up these settings to some draconian level anyway,
just to leave one fewer spam target on the internet.

-Philip

On Sun, Nov 21, 2021 at 6:08 PM 'John Clements' via Racket Users <
racket-users@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Wait, you think that’s high traffic? Gee whiz, the mailing list *has*
> shrunk, hasn’t it?
>
> Okay, that was not an entirely serious reply, but I do think that in
> contrast to the discord & slack channels, the discourse is likely to be
> searchable and at least lightly curated six months from now. Also, if you
> take a look at the mailing list archive
>
> https://www.mail-archive.com/racket-users@googlegroups.com/
>
> … you’ll see a *shocking* amount of spam. Many of us don’t see this
> because we have semi-reasonable spam filters, but others are putting up
> with what looks like more than 50% spam on this list. That’s just not
> acceptable.
>
> John
>
>
> > On Nov 21, 2021, at 14:14, Sorawee Porncharoenwase <
> sorawee.pw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I could be in the minority here, but as an early proponent of Discourse
> to replace the mailing list (even before RacketCon), I feel reluctant to
> join it after observing it for a while. It has a very high traffic, with
> almost 100% of the contents being cross-posted everywhere else (and vice
> versa) anyway.
> >
> > While I appreciate any efforts into promoting the site, I do think
> different content has different appropriate mediums. For example, FAQs
> probably should go to the wiki. There's no need to clutter anyone's inbox
> for this type of content.
> >
> > On Sun, Nov 21, 2021 at 10:09 AM 'John Clements' via Racket Users <
> racket-users@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> > TL;DR: Go to
> >
> >https://racket.discourse.group/invites/okLTSrQw1T
> >
> > and sign up for Racket Discourse (https://racket.discourse.group/)
> >
> > # Thoughts behind the move:
> >
> > Over time, it has become steadily more apparent that email-only
> > mailing lists are an outdated communication medium for the Racket
> > community. More recent arrivals in our community have generally
> > chosen other platforms like slack or discord to carry on discussions.
> > As a result, the signal-to-noise ratio of the racket users mailing list
> > has dropped below the level of viability.
> >
> > In short, it’s time to give up on the mailing list.
> >
> > After a good deal of research, it looks like there’s room for a whole
> > bunch of discussion platforms for Racket, but it also seems as though
> > there should be a “permanent” one; it should be archived, it should be
> > searchable in its entirety, and it should not tie us to someone else’s
> > plan to monetize user data.
> >
> > Given these criteria, the winner is Discourse, an open-source
> > messaging platform built by Jeff Atwood, Robin Ward, and Sam
> > Saffron. It has a reasonable business model (they host projects like
> > ours unless they get really big, whereupon you can either host it
> > yourself or pay them to do it); it’s widely used by other language
> > communities; and it appears to do most of what we want.
> >
> > # So where can I sign up?
> >
> > Sign up here: https://racket.discourse.group/invites/okLTSrQw1T
> >
> > The discourse platform has been in a “soft opening” phase for about
> > two weeks now, since RacketCon, and we have about a hundred users.
> > You’re receiving this message because we’d like to have *YOU* there
> > as well.
> >
> > # Can I still receive messages like a mailing list?
> >
> > Yes, you can. I have it enabled myself!
> > To use discord as a mailing-list:
> > Sign up, go to Preferen

Re: [racket-users] Racket Discourse

['John Clements' via Racket Users]

Wait, you think that’s high traffic? Gee whiz, the mailing list *has* shrunk, 
hasn’t it?

Okay, that was not an entirely serious reply, but I do think that in contrast 
to the discord & slack channels, the discourse is likely to be searchable and 
at least lightly curated six months from now. Also, if you take a look at the 
mailing list archive 

https://www.mail-archive.com/racket-users@googlegroups.com/

… you’ll see a *shocking* amount of spam. Many of us don’t see this because we 
have semi-reasonable spam filters, but others are putting up with what looks 
like more than 50% spam on this list. That’s just not acceptable.

John


> On Nov 21, 2021, at 14:14, Sorawee Porncharoenwase  
> wrote:
> 
> I could be in the minority here, but as an early proponent of Discourse to 
> replace the mailing list (even before RacketCon), I feel reluctant to join it 
> after observing it for a while. It has a very high traffic, with almost 100% 
> of the contents being cross-posted everywhere else (and vice versa) anyway.
> 
> While I appreciate any efforts into promoting the site, I do think different 
> content has different appropriate mediums. For example, FAQs probably should 
> go to the wiki. There's no need to clutter anyone's inbox for this type of 
> content.
> 
> On Sun, Nov 21, 2021 at 10:09 AM 'John Clements' via Racket Users 
>  wrote:
> TL;DR: Go to
> 
>https://racket.discourse.group/invites/okLTSrQw1T
> 
> and sign up for Racket Discourse (https://racket.discourse.group/)
> 
> # Thoughts behind the move:
> 
> Over time, it has become steadily more apparent that email-only 
> mailing lists are an outdated communication medium for the Racket
> community. More recent arrivals in our community have generally 
> chosen other platforms like slack or discord to carry on discussions. 
> As a result, the signal-to-noise ratio of the racket users mailing list 
> has dropped below the level of viability.
> 
> In short, it’s time to give up on the mailing list.
> 
> After a good deal of research, it looks like there’s room for a whole
> bunch of discussion platforms for Racket, but it also seems as though
> there should be a “permanent” one; it should be archived, it should be
> searchable in its entirety, and it should not tie us to someone else’s
> plan to monetize user data.
> 
> Given these criteria, the winner is Discourse, an open-source
> messaging platform built by Jeff Atwood, Robin Ward, and Sam
> Saffron. It has a reasonable business model (they host projects like
> ours unless they get really big, whereupon you can either host it
> yourself or pay them to do it); it’s widely used by other language
> communities; and it appears to do most of what we want.
> 
> # So where can I sign up?
> 
> Sign up here: https://racket.discourse.group/invites/okLTSrQw1T
> 
> The discourse platform has been in a “soft opening” phase for about 
> two weeks now, since RacketCon, and we have about a hundred users. 
> You’re receiving this message because we’d like to have *YOU* there 
> as well.
> 
> # Can I still receive messages like a mailing list?
> 
> Yes, you can. I have it enabled myself!  
> To use discord as a mailing-list:
> Sign up, go to Preferences > Email, and tick “Enable mailing list mode'.
> 
> Yours,
> 
> John Clements & Stephen De Gabrielle
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Racket Users" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/9d080367-1b70-4818-8e76-8c6714db404c%40mtasv.net.

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Re: [racket-users] Racket Discourse

[Sorawee Porncharoenwase]

I could be in the minority here, but as an early proponent of Discourse to
replace the mailing list (even before RacketCon), I feel reluctant to join
it after observing it for a while. It has a very high traffic, with almost
100% of the contents being cross-posted everywhere else (and vice versa)
anyway.

While I appreciate any efforts into promoting the site, I do think
different content has different appropriate mediums. For example, FAQs
probably should go to the wiki. There's no need to clutter anyone's inbox
for this type of content.

On Sun, Nov 21, 2021 at 10:09 AM 'John Clements' via Racket Users <
racket-users@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> TL;DR: Go to
>
>https://racket.discourse.group/invites/okLTSrQw1T
>
> and sign up for Racket Discourse (https://racket.discourse.group/)
>
> # Thoughts behind the move:
>
> Over time, it has become steadily more apparent that email-only
> mailing lists are an outdated communication medium for the Racket
> community. More recent arrivals in our community have generally
> chosen other platforms like slack or discord to carry on discussions.
> As a result, the signal-to-noise ratio of the racket users mailing list
> has dropped below the level of viability.
>
> In short, it’s time to give up on the mailing list.
>
> After a good deal of research, it looks like there’s room for a whole
> bunch of discussion platforms for Racket, but it also seems as though
> there should be a “permanent” one; it should be archived, it should be
> searchable in its entirety, and it should not tie us to someone else’s
> plan to monetize user data.
>
> Given these criteria, the winner is Discourse, an open-source
> messaging platform built by Jeff Atwood, Robin Ward, and Sam
> Saffron. It has a reasonable business model (they host projects like
> ours unless they get really big, whereupon you can either host it
> yourself or pay them to do it); it’s widely used by other language
> communities; and it appears to do most of what we want.
>
> # So where can I sign up?
>
> Sign up here: https://racket.discourse.group/invites/okLTSrQw1T
>
> The discourse platform has been in a “soft opening” phase for about
> two weeks now, since RacketCon, and we have about a hundred users.
> You’re receiving this message because we’d like to have *YOU* there
> as well.
>
> # Can I still receive messages like a mailing list?
>
> Yes, you can. I have it enabled myself!
> To use discord as a mailing-list:
> Sign up, go to Preferences > Email, and tick “Enable mailing list mode'.
>
> Yours,
>
> John Clements & Stephen De Gabrielle
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Racket Users" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/9d080367-1b70-4818-8e76-8c6714db404c%40mtasv.net
> .
>

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[racket-users] Racket Discourse

['John Clements' via Racket Users]

TL;DR: Go to

   https://racket.discourse.group/invites/okLTSrQw1T

and sign up for Racket Discourse (https://racket.discourse.group/)

# Thoughts behind the move:

Over time, it has become steadily more apparent that email-only 
mailing lists are an outdated communication medium for the Racket
community. More recent arrivals in our community have generally 
chosen other platforms like slack or discord to carry on discussions. 
As a result, the signal-to-noise ratio of the racket users mailing list 
has dropped below the level of viability.

In short, it’s time to give up on the mailing list.

After a good deal of research, it looks like there’s room for a whole
bunch of discussion platforms for Racket, but it also seems as though
there should be a “permanent” one; it should be archived, it should be
searchable in its entirety, and it should not tie us to someone else’s
plan to monetize user data.

Given these criteria, the winner is Discourse, an open-source
messaging platform built by Jeff Atwood, Robin Ward, and Sam
Saffron. It has a reasonable business model (they host projects like
ours unless they get really big, whereupon you can either host it
yourself or pay them to do it); it’s widely used by other language
communities; and it appears to do most of what we want.

# So where can I sign up?

Sign up here: https://racket.discourse.group/invites/okLTSrQw1T

The discourse platform has been in a “soft opening” phase for about 
two weeks now, since RacketCon, and we have about a hundred users. 
You’re receiving this message because we’d like to have *YOU* there 
as well.

# Can I still receive messages like a mailing list?

Yes, you can. I have it enabled myself!  
To use discord as a mailing-list:
Sign up, go to Preferences > Email, and tick “Enable mailing list mode'.

Yours,

John Clements & Stephen De Gabrielle

-- 
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Re: [racket-users] racket-mode / paredit combine closing parens

[David Storrs]

Ah, that looks right.  Thanks, Siddhartha.

On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 1:59 PM Siddhartha Kasivajhula 
wrote:

> Was curious about this feature so I went looking. It might be lispy-tab
> .
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 10:35 AM David Storrs 
> wrote:
>
>> In Emacs, I've seen a demonstration where one keystroke can pull all
>> closing parens together, transforming this (point/cursor position is shown
>> as |):
>>
>> (let ()
>>   (let ()
>>(some-func 'a)|
>>   )
>> )
>>
>> into this:
>>
>> (let ()
>>   (let ()
>>(some-func 'a)))|
>>
>> I haven't been able to find the relevant keyboard command.  Does anyone
>> know it?  I'm not sure if it's racket-mode, paredit, or some other thing.
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Racket Users" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/CAE8gKofPAMdVQK1Aw_WjB7wcdhxNST10itriV6a0SbGgKNaB9A%40mail.gmail.com
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [racket-users] racket-mode / paredit combine closing parens

[Siddhartha Kasivajhula]

Was curious about this feature so I went looking. It might be lispy-tab
.


On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 10:35 AM David Storrs 
wrote:

> In Emacs, I've seen a demonstration where one keystroke can pull all
> closing parens together, transforming this (point/cursor position is shown
> as |):
>
> (let ()
>   (let ()
>(some-func 'a)|
>   )
> )
>
> into this:
>
> (let ()
>   (let ()
>(some-func 'a)))|
>
> I haven't been able to find the relevant keyboard command.  Does anyone
> know it?  I'm not sure if it's racket-mode, paredit, or some other thing.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Racket Users" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
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[racket-users] racket-mode / paredit combine closing parens

[David Storrs]

In Emacs, I've seen a demonstration where one keystroke can pull all
closing parens together, transforming this (point/cursor position is shown
as |):

(let ()
  (let ()
   (some-func 'a)|
  )
)

into this:

(let ()
  (let ()
   (some-func 'a)))|

I haven't been able to find the relevant keyboard command.  Does anyone
know it?  I'm not sure if it's racket-mode, paredit, or some other thing.

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[racket-users] Racket v8.3 also available on the Ubuntu PPA

[Asumu Takikawa]

On 2021-11-06 21:07:22 +, 'John Clements' via Racket Users wrote:
> Racket version 8.3 is now available from
> 
> https://racket-lang.org/

v8.3 is also now available from the Ubuntu PPA:

  https://launchpad.net/~plt/+archive/ubuntu/racket

This release also supports Ubuntu 21.10 (Impish). Please report any
issues on github as usual:

  https://github.com/takikawa/racket-ppa/issues

Cheers,
Asumu

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[racket-users] Racket Discourse (forum & mailing list)

[Stephen De Gabrielle]

Racket Discourse!

Sam announced this on day two of RacketCon so it is public, but I thought
I’d spread the word as not everyone was able to attend or watch all the
videos yet.

It is a bit like google groups in that you have a web interface and a
mailing list mode.

A (hopefully) real benefit of using Discourse is categories and tags
*should* make it easier to find answers, rather than repeating the same
questions. (I have been saved many times by being able search racket-users,
but it gets harder over time.)

It also has a ‘Questions and Help’ category for questions about the Racket
languages.

It is a new Discourse server, and the admins have created a site feedback
category if you have problems, questions or suggestions about the Racket
Discourse instance: https://racket.discourse.group/c/site-feedback/2

Hope to see you there!

Stephen

PS signup is easy and you don’t need a google account.

PPS Discourse is open source and the data can be retrieved.

PPPS you have to enable ‘mailing list mode’ in your settings

S it has dark mode!


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[racket-users] Racket Discord (chat) forum

[Stephen De Gabrielle]

Hi,

Sam mentioned the discord - I thought I'd share the link
https://discord.gg/6Zq8sH5

bw
Stephen

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[racket-users] Racket v8.3

['John Clements' via Racket Users]

Racket version 8.3 is now available from

https://racket-lang.org/


* Racket removes syntax arming and disarming in favor of a simpler
 system of protected syntax operations, along with other updates to the
 syntax system.

* DrRacket has improved support for custom #lang languages.

* Typed Racket improves precision for type-checking of non-polymorphic
  structures, existential types, and certain binding forms.

* Scribble HTML output gains a button to show / hide the table of
  contents on mobile platforms.

* Redex's stepper's GUI shows IO-judgment form rule names.

* Many bug fixes!


The following people contributed to this release:

Adam Zaiter, Alex Knauth, Alexis King, Ayman Osman, Ben Greenman, Bob
Burger, Bogdan Popa, Brian Adkins, Cameron Moy, Carl Eastlund, Dan
Holtby, Dominik Pantůček, Eli Barzilay, Ethan Leba, Fred Fu, Greg
Hendershott, Gustavo Massaccesi, J. Ryan Stinnett, Jason Hemann, Jay
McCarthy, Jesse Alama, Joel Dueck, John Clements, Jonathan Simpson,
Kartik Sabharwal, Laurent Orseau, Lehua Ding, Maciej Barć, Marc Burns,
Matthew Flatt, Matthias Felleisen, Michael Ballantyne, Mike Sperber,
Noah Ma, Paulo Matos, Pavel Panchekha, Philip McGrath, Robby Findler,
Ryan Culpepper, Ryan Sundberg, Sage Gerard, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt,
Shu-Hung You, Sorawee Porncharoenwase, Stefan Schwarzer, Stephen De
Gabrielle, Vincent St-Amour, William J. Bowman, minor-change, and yjqww6

Feedback Welcome

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[racket-users] Racket News - Issue 55

[Paulo Matos]

Hi all,

Racket News Issue 55 is here... Call it a warmup for RacketCon later on. 
Enjoy the issue.

https://racket-news.com/2021/11/racket-news-issue-55.html

Paulo Matos

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Re: [racket-users] Racket News - Issue 54

[Paulo Matos]

Stephen De Gabrielle  writes:

> Thank you Paulo for another great issue.
>
> I must put it *on the record* that the contributor of the 'run guile in Dr
> Racket' is actually Laurent Orseau.

Thanks for clearing that up. In any case, Laurent has also suggested the
example to use with the quickscript, so I have added both of you to the
contributors section of RN.

Thanks for your contributions,

-- 
Paulo Matos

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Re: [racket-users] Racket News - Issue 54

[Stephen De Gabrielle]

Thank you Paulo for another great issue.

I must put it *on the record* that the contributor of the 'run guile in Dr
Racket' is actually Laurent Orseau.

bw

s.

On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 3:55 PM Paulo Matos  wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> Issue 54 is finally here:
> https://racket-news.com/2021/10/racket-news-issue-54.html
>
> Enjoy!
>
> Paulo Matos
>
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[racket-users] Racket News - Issue 54

[Paulo Matos]

Hello all,

Issue 54 is finally here:
https://racket-news.com/2021/10/racket-news-issue-54.html

Enjoy!

Paulo Matos

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Re: [racket-users] racket/gui/base in sandboxes in places

[George Neuner]

On 10/3/2021 4:04 PM, 'William J. Bowman' via Racket Users wrote:

I'm trying to run sandboxes in places, but when the sandboxes need access to 
racket/gui (such as through 2htdp/universe), they get `cannot instantiate 
racket/gui/base' a second time`. I've tried initing racket/gui once in the 
server that starts the places, but this doesn't seem to work. (gui-available?) 
is still false in started places, and they still raise the exception when the 
sandbox tries to load the gui module.

I don't really need to run gui code in the sandbox, so I'm guessing the best 
workaround is to override `2htdp/universe` in the sandbox.

Anyone have either a solution, or a better workaround?


My (perhaps incorrect) understanding is that with dynamic (kernel 
thread) places, only the foreground place can have a GUI.  I'm not sure 
why the gui package won't load in a background place, but it may not 
work right even if you can get it to load.


Just a suggestion: you might try using Paulo Matos's "Loci" package - it 
simulates dynamic places using separate processes.  With Loci, the place 
is foreground in its own process, so it /might/ allow racket/gui to work.


https://pkgs.racket-lang.org/package/loci


Hope this doesn't lead down a rabbit hole.
George

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[racket-users] racket/gui/base in sandboxes in places

['William J. Bowman' via Racket Users]

I'm trying to run sandboxes in places, but when the sandboxes need access to 
racket/gui (such as through 2htdp/universe), they get `cannot instantiate 
racket/gui/base' a second time`. I've tried initing racket/gui once in the 
server that starts the places, but this doesn't seem to work. (gui-available?) 
is still false in started places, and they still raise the exception when the 
sandbox tries to load the gui module.

I don't really need to run gui code in the sandbox, so I'm guessing the best 
workaround is to override `2htdp/universe` in the sandbox.

Anyone have either a solution, or a better workaround?

-- 
William J. Bowman

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Re: [racket-users] Racket virtual meet-up in 50 minutes (8pm UTC) TODAY

[Stephen De Gabrielle]

Thank you to everyone who joined us today

I’m looking forward to seeing more of you at the next meet-up:

When: *First Saturday EVERY Month UTC: 20:00* (30 minutes but can overrun)
Calendar: Google

 , iCal


Where: https://gather.town/app/wH1EDG3McffLjrs0/racket-users

The link is free for all - so if you want to organise a meet-up at a time
that is better for your time zone please feel free!

stephen



On Sat, 2 Oct 2021 at 20:09, Stephen De Gabrielle 
wrote:

> All welcome
>
> starts in a little over 50 minutes
>
> Where: https://gather.town/app/wH1EDG3McffLjrs0/racket-users
>
> When: *First Saturday EVERY Month UTC: 20:00* (30 minutes but can overrun)
> Calendar: Google
> 
>  , iCal
> 
>
> stephen
>
> --
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> 
> .
>
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[racket-users] Racket virtual meet-up in 50 minutes (8pm UTC) TODAY

[Stephen De Gabrielle]

All welcome

starts in a little over 50 minutes

Where: https://gather.town/app/wH1EDG3McffLjrs0/racket-users

When: *First Saturday EVERY Month UTC: 20:00* (30 minutes but can overrun)
Calendar: Google 

 , iCal 


stephen 

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Re: [racket-users] Racket meeting tomorrow?

[Stephen De Gabrielle]

All welcome

starts in a little over 50 minutes

Where: https://gather.town/app/wH1EDG3McffLjrs0/racket-users

When: *First Saturday EVERY Month UTC: 20:00* (30 minutes but can overrun)
Calendar: Google 

 , iCal 


stephen 


On Friday, October 1, 2021 at 8:56:08 PM UTC+1 hen...@topoi.pooq.com wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 01, 2021 at 12:31:27PM -0700, Sam Phillips wrote:
> > October 2, 2021
> > 1 PM PDT
> > 4 PM EDT
> > 8 PM UTC
> > 10 PM CEST
> > 
> > Should be the same URL as previous meetups.
> > 
> > https://gather.town/app/wH1EDG3McffLjrs0/racket-users
>
> I'll try to be there even though I haven't been doing much Racketting 
> lately.
> I didn't see it announced in Racket News, so I asked.
>
> -- hendrik
>
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Sam
> > 
> > On Fri, Oct 1, 2021 at 9:49 AM Hendrik Boom  
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Is there going to be a Racket online meeting at the gather site 
> tomorrow
> > > on October 2? There have been on previous
> > > first-Saturdays-in-the-month.If so, at what time, and what's the URL?
> > >
> > > -- hendrik
> > >
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "Racket Users" group.
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> an email to racket-users...@googlegroups.com.
> > > To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/20211001164939.xrugfg7xlkj4pmfo%40topoi.pooq.com
> .
> > 
> > -- 
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> an email to racket-users...@googlegroups.com.
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> .
>

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Re: [racket-users] Racket meeting tomorrow?

[Hendrik Boom]

On Fri, Oct 01, 2021 at 12:31:27PM -0700, Sam Phillips wrote:
> October 2, 2021
> 1 PM PDT
> 4 PM EDT
> 8 PM UTC
> 10 PM CEST
> 
> Should be the same URL as previous meetups.
> 
> https://gather.town/app/wH1EDG3McffLjrs0/racket-users

I'll try to be there even though I haven't been doing much Racketting lately.
I didn't see it announced in Racket News, so I asked.

-- hendrik

> 
> Cheers,
> Sam
> 
> On Fri, Oct 1, 2021 at 9:49 AM Hendrik Boom  wrote:
> >
> > Is there going to be a Racket online meeting at the gather site tomorrow
> > on October 2?  There have been on previous
> > first-Saturdays-in-the-month.If so, at what time, and what's the URL?
> >
> > -- hendrik
> >
> > --
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> > "Racket Users" group.
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> 
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Re: [racket-users] Racket meeting tomorrow?

[Sam Phillips]

October 2, 2021
1 PM PDT
4 PM EDT
8 PM UTC
10 PM CEST

Should be the same URL as previous meetups.

https://gather.town/app/wH1EDG3McffLjrs0/racket-users

Cheers,
Sam

On Fri, Oct 1, 2021 at 9:49 AM Hendrik Boom  wrote:
>
> Is there going to be a Racket online meeting at the gather site tomorrow
> on October 2?  There have been on previous
> first-Saturdays-in-the-month.If so, at what time, and what's the URL?
>
> -- hendrik
>
> --
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Re: [racket-users] Racket meeting tomorrow?

[Dominik Pantůček]

I truly hope that the standard time (10pm CEST, 8pm UTC) and place 
(gather.town) tomorrow. Although I missed a few as I was busy with other 
projects over the summer, I'd like to see what others are up to again ;-)



See ya there!
Dominik

On 01. 10. 21 18:49, Hendrik Boom wrote:

Is there going to be a Racket online meeting at the gather site tomorrow
on October 2?  There have been on previous
first-Saturdays-in-the-month.If so, at what time, and what's the URL?

-- hendrik



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[racket-users] Racket meeting tomorrow?

[Hendrik Boom]

Is there going to be a Racket online meeting at the gather site tomorrow 
on October 2?  There have been on previous 
first-Saturdays-in-the-month.If so, at what time, and what's the URL?

-- hendrik

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[racket-users] Racket News - Issue 53

[Paulo Matos]

Hi all,

Here's another Racket News Issue... Counting 53 now! :)
Enjoy!

https://racket-news.com/2021/08/racket-news-issue-53.html

Paulo Matos

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Re: [racket-users] racket/gui fn that returns width of O.S. toolbar?

[James Platt]

> In linux and I imagine on Windows and macOS, when there exists a vertical OS 
> toolbar the values returned by get-display-size and get-client-size are the 
> same and are insufficient.

The macOS version, at least, is draggable so there can be different widths on 
different Finder windows at the same time.  You can get the info by shelling 
out to the command line if that's a possibility for you.

$osascript -e 'tell application "Finder" to get the sidebar width of Finder 
window 1'

or 

$osascript -e 'tell application "Finder" to get the sidebar width of front 
Finder window'

or

$defaults read com.apple.finder | grep SidebarWidth

Note that this gives a list of results but I am not clear on whether they are 
all default values or values for current windows or, more likely, some of each. 
 The file com.apple.finder is a plist file which is a form of xml so you might 
even read the file directly into Racket and parse it.

I would not be at all surprised if there are multiple other ways to get the 
info from the command line.  

James

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[racket-users] racket/gui fn that returns width of O.S. toolbar?

[Don Green]

Is there a racket/gui fn that returns width of an Operating System vertical 
toolbar?

In linux and I imagine on Windows and macOS, when there exists a vertical 
OS toolbar the values returned by get-display-size and get-client-size are 
the same and are insufficient.

So,
Is there a racket/gui fn that returns width of an Operating System vertical 
toolbar?
Thanks

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[racket-users] Racket v8.2

['John Clements' via Racket Users]

--
Racket version 8.2 is now available from

https://racket-lang.org/


* Racket CS improved the performance of large-integer arithmetic.

* Racket has improved support for layered and tethered installation.

* Racket CS supports nonatomic allocation via ffi/unsafe.

* Cross-compilation works fully with the `raco cross` tool, which is
  distributed separately as the "raco-cross" package.
  
* DrRacket has performance improvements when editing files with
  picts containing large bitmaps.

* Typed Racket more consistently refines field types of non-polymorphic
  structs.

* Printing of values is unified across the teaching language
  implementations and the stepper.

The following people contributed to this release:

Alex Harsányi, Alex Knauth, Amirouche, Andrew Mauer-Oats, Bob Burger,
Bogdan Popa, Cameron Moy, Crystal Jacobs, Dale Vaillancourt, Diego
A. Mundo, Fred Fu, Greg Hendershott, Gustavo Massaccesi, Jack Firth,
Jamie Taylor, Jarhmander, Jason Hemann, Jay McCarthy, Jeffrey D. Swan,
Jens Axel Søgaard, Jesse Alama, John Clements, Laurent Orseau,
Lazerbeak12345, Matthew Flatt, Matthias Felleisen, Mike Sperber, Nada
Amin, Noah Ma, Oscar Waddell, Paulo Matos, Pavel Panchekha, Philip
McGrath, Ray Racine, Robby Findler, Ryan Culpepper, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt,
Shu-Hung You, Sorawee Porncharoenwase, Stephen Chang, Thorsten Blum,
Tony Garnock-Jones, WarGrey Gyoudmon Ju, William J. Bowman, Yu Fang,
and minor-change.

Feedback Welcome
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[racket-users] Racket web-server question

[Rohan Posthumus]

Good morning everyone,

Sorry, this is a bit of a noob question, but this is my first Racket 
program :-)
I build a CRUD in Racket web-server, everything seems to work well but my 
Sqlite database does not update the data until I restart the server. I 
tried a few things, but all in vain. 

Any suggestions?

Kind regards
Rohan

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[racket-users] Racket News - Issue 52

[Paulo Matos]

Issue 52 of RN is here: 
https://racket-news.com/2021/07/racket-news-issue-52.html

Enjoy!

Paulo Matos

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[racket-users] Racket News - Issue 51

[Paulo Matos]

Hello,

Issue 51 of RN is online. Enjoy!
https://racket-news.com/2021/06/racket-news-issue-51.html

-- 
Paulo Matos

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Re: [racket-users] Racket v8.1 [cs] -- Memory leaks with IDE in Win10

[J Fuller]

Hi! I've read the issue ticket and that sure sounds like the problem! I've 
installed 8.1.0.7 and I'll see if that addresses it. 

Thanks very much!

On Tuesday, 15 June 2021 at 08:44:27 UTC-4 Matthew Flatt wrote:

> Hi, and thanks for the report!
>
> That sounds like a bug that has been fixed for the next release,
> especially if you opened any HTML page (such as documentation) from
> DrRacket.
>
> For more information on a previous report and the repair:
>
> https://github.com/racket/racket/issues/3832
>
> Snapshot versions with the repair:
>
> https://snapshot.racket-lang.org/
>
>
> Matthew
>
> At Tue, 15 Jun 2021 05:41:11 -0700 (PDT), J Fuller wrote:
> > Hi!
> > 
> > I'm having problems with memory consumption in Racket v8.1 [cs], 64 bit 
> on 
> > Windows 10.
> > 
> > I left the IDE running overnight with a one short file open in the 
> editor 
> > (less than 30 lines) but nothing actually running and in the morning, I 
> > found it it had consumed over 20GB of RAM (see attached screenshot from 
> > Process Explorer). 
> > 
> > Is there any way I can troubleshoot what's causing this?
> > What's the best information to supply to make a good bug report?
> > 
> > Thanks very much! 
> > 
> > -- 
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups 
> > "Racket Users" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an email 
> > to racket-users...@googlegroups.com.
> > To view this discussion on the web visit 
> > 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/94f11c62-5e1c-498c-8550-bbda0e70f
> > 2b4n%40googlegroups.com.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> --
> > [image/png "Screenshot 2021-06-15 082515.png"] [~/Desktop & open] 
> [~/Temp & open]
> > .
>

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Re: [racket-users] Racket v8.1 [cs] -- Memory leaks with IDE in Win10

[Matthew Flatt]

Hi, and thanks for the report!

That sounds like a bug that has been fixed for the next release,
especially if you opened any HTML page (such as documentation) from
DrRacket.

For more information on a previous report and the repair:

  https://github.com/racket/racket/issues/3832

Snapshot versions with the repair:

  https://snapshot.racket-lang.org/


Matthew

At Tue, 15 Jun 2021 05:41:11 -0700 (PDT), J Fuller wrote:
>  Hi!
> 
> I'm having problems with memory consumption in Racket v8.1 [cs], 64 bit on 
> Windows 10.
> 
> I left the IDE running overnight with a one short file open in the editor 
> (less than 30 lines) but nothing actually running and in the morning, I 
> found it it had consumed over 20GB of RAM (see attached screenshot from 
> Process Explorer). 
> 
> Is there any way I can troubleshoot what's causing this?
> What's the best information to supply to make a good bug report?
> 
> Thanks very much! 
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Racket Users" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email 
> to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/94f11c62-5e1c-498c-8550-bbda0e70f
> 2b4n%40googlegroups.com.
> 
> 
> --
> [image/png "Screenshot 2021-06-15 082515.png"] [~/Desktop & open] [~/Temp & 
> open]
> .

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[racket-users] Racket v8.1 [cs] -- Memory leaks with IDE in Win10

[J Fuller]

 Hi!

I'm having problems with memory consumption in Racket v8.1 [cs], 64 bit on 
Windows 10.

I left the IDE running overnight with a one short file open in the editor 
(less than 30 lines) but nothing actually running and in the morning, I 
found it it had consumed over 20GB of RAM (see attached screenshot from 
Process Explorer). 

Is there any way I can troubleshoot what's causing this?
What's the best information to supply to make a good bug report?

Thanks very much! 

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[racket-users] Racket Slack archive update: privacy concerns

[D. Ben Knoble]

Update on the project to host an archive of the Racket Slack: I have been
directed to some privacy issues with the current proof-of-concept. Until 
these
issues are resolved, I have made the repository private and taken down the 
site.

If you have a copy of the archive files or site, I must ask that you refrain
from using them publicly until those impacted have a chance to decide what 
to
do.

If you wish to participate in the discussion, please join the Racket Slack 
[1,2]
and use the channel #slack-archive. You can also reach out privately to me 
and
Sam Tobin-Hochstadt, as we have become the organizers behind the archive. So
that I remain accountable and transparent, I would prefer any private
communication with me to include Sam.

The crux of the issue is data privacy: What data is in the archive? What 
are we
doing with private data? How are we using data from the archive? How are we
going to explain that to people? What will opt-in/opt-out look like?  
More
details in Slack.

[1] https://racket.slack.com/
[2] https://racket-slack.herokuapp.com/

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Re: [racket-users] Racket Slack archive [help wanted]

[Ben Knoble]

D. Ben Knoble

> 1) It wasn’t immediately clear to me that the links were the names of 
> channels. It seems painfully obvious to me now, but perhaps it’s worth 
> starting all the names with hashes?


Great idea, thanks. 

> 2) Clicking on the channel name “general” appears to melt down somehow, 
> presumably because the page is really really really big. Is pagination near 
> the top of most-desired-new-features?

Yeah, this is one of my top priorities. I’m thinking I’ll break it down by 
date. But I may want to rewrite the static generation in Racket first (to get 
it off Ruby + Jekyll, which may be unfamiliar to the community).


> Again, I think it’s great that you’re doing this!

Thanks :)

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Re: [racket-users] Racket Slack archive [help wanted]

['John Clements' via Racket Users]

Hearing about this for the first time, seems like a fantastic idea.

10 seconds of experience:

1) It wasn’t immediately clear to me that the links were the names of channels. 
It seems painfully obvious to me now, but perhaps it’s worth starting all the 
names with hashes?

2) Clicking on the channel name “general” appears to melt down somehow, 
presumably because the page is really really really big. Is pagination near the 
top of most-desired-new-features?

Again, I think it’s great that you’re doing this!

John

> On Jun 8, 2021, at 08:16, D. Ben Knoble  wrote:
> 
> In case you missed it/aren't on Slack:
> 
> The latest version of the Slack archive is up-and-running at 
> https://benknoble.github.io/racket-slack-archive/ (extends through roughly 
> 2021-06-07).
> 
> The site is now built using a mix of 
> - Racket (data processing, mostly the json, hash, and unzip modules)
> - Jekyll/Ruby (site-generation; a plugin makes pages out of all the channel 
> directories, which are then rendered via a set of HTML templates)
> 
> I have some todos to make a nicer experience, and help is welcome. Also if 
> anyone wants to start working porting the Jekyll + Ruby stuff to Racket, feel 
> free.
> 
> -- 
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[racket-users] Racket Slack archive [help wanted]

[D. Ben Knoble]

In case you missed it/aren't on Slack:

The latest version of the Slack archive is up-and-running at 
https://benknoble.github.io/racket-slack-archive/ (extends through roughly 
2021-06-07).

The site is now built using a mix of 
- Racket (data processing, mostly the json, hash, and unzip modules)
- Jekyll/Ruby (site-generation; a plugin makes pages out of all the channel 
directories, which are then rendered via a set of HTML templates)

I have some todos to make a nicer experience, and help is welcome. Also if 
anyone wants to start working porting the Jekyll + Ruby stuff to Racket, 
feel free.

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Re: [racket-users] Racket News - Issue 50

[Sage Gerard]

Thank you for organizing the news and for bringing attention to so many cool 
projects out there. Definitely cause to celebrate! :)

On 5/19/21 10:00 AM, Paulo Matos wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> We have hit 50 issues! :)
> https://racket-news.com/2021/05/racket-news-issue-50.html
>
> Enjoy!
>
> --
> Paulo Matos
> --
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--
~slg

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[racket-users] Racket News - Issue 50

[Paulo Matos]

Hello all,

We have hit 50 issues! :)
https://racket-news.com/2021/05/racket-news-issue-50.html

Enjoy!

-- 
Paulo Matos

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Re: [racket-users] Racket v8.1

['John Clements' via Racket Users]

Ah! My apologies. I’ve added your name to our “preferred names” file, and I 
hope not to make this mistake again.

Thank you!

John

> On May 8, 2021, at 13:38, Dexter Lagan  wrote:
> 
> Hello sir,
> 
>  Thank you ! My name is actually Dexter Santucci. Apologies for the 
> confusion. My email address isn't telling.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Dexter
> 
> On Wednesday, May 5, 2021 at 6:39:22 PM UTC+2 johnbclements wrote:
> -- 
> Racket version 8.1 is now available from 
> 
> https://racket-lang.org/ 
> 
> 
> - DrRacket tabs can be dragged, and have new close buttons. 
> 
> - Racket CS supports cross-compilation using `raco exe`. 
> 
> - Racket CS supports Android on 32-bit and 64-bit ARM processors. 
> 
> - The database library supports running queries in OS threads. 
> 
> - Check-Syntax arrows correctly identify the definition site of 
> identifiers with contracts. 
> 
> - Racket CS performance has improved for structure predicates and 
> accessors 
> 
> - Racket CS is faster at multiplying extremely large numbers and 
> dividing large integers. 
> 
> - Racket CS allows callbacks to raise exceptions if they are annotated 
> with `#:callback-exns?`. 
> 
> - New ephemeron hash tables simplify the implementation of tables where 
> keys can refer to values. 
> 
> - Typed Racket supports for/foldr. 
> 
> - The stepper works for #lang htdp/*sl. 
> 
> - Struct signatures work for the ASL teaching language. 
> 
> The following people contributed to this release: 
> 
> Alex Harsányi, Alex Knauth, Alexander Shopov, Alexis King, Andrew 
> Mauer-Oats, Anish Athalye, Ben Greenman, Bert De Ketelaere, Bob Burger, 
> Bogdan Popa, Brian Adkins, Cameron Moy, David Van Horn, Dexter Lagan, 
> Dominik Pantůček, Fred Fu, Greg Hendershott, Gustavo Massaccesi, Hazel 
> Levine, Ismael Luceno, Jack Firth, Jarhmander, John Clements, Jörgen 
> Brandt, Laurent Orseau, Lazerbeak12345, Matthew Flatt, Matthias 
> Felleisen, Micah Cantor, Mike Sperber, Noah Ma, Patrick McCarty, Paulo 
> Matos, Pavel Panchekha, Philip McGrath, Philippe Meunier, R. Kent 
> Dybvig, Robby Findler, Ryan Culpepper, Ryan Kramer, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt, 
> Sergiu Ivanov, Shu-Hung You, Sorawee Porncharoenwase, Stephen De 
> Gabrielle, William J. Bowman, bmitc, xxyzz, yjqww6, and ymdarake 
> 
> Feedback Welcome 
> -- 
> 
> 
> -- 
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Re: [racket-users] Racket - How to define a function that can be used both in syntax transformers and ordinary code?

[Sage Gerard]

Wow, I really butchered a sentence. Let me try it again.

Old: "That is, there's a compile-time "pass" where Racket is focuses on the 
code you write and what they can see"

New: "That is, there's a compile-time "pass" where Racket focuses on replacing 
used macros with new code, and that pass has its own set of bindings that only 
that pass can see."

~slg

 Original Message 
On May 9, 2021, 3:14 PM, Sage Gerard wrote:

> I'm stretching details a bit, but maybe it would help to think of phases as 
> "passes." That is, there's a compile-time "pass" where Racket is focuses on 
> the code you write and what they can see. These passes continue until the 
> Racket program is fully expanded.
>
> Where things get tricky is remembering that when you create a binding at one 
> phase, it is available for that phase. It's a little easier to tell the 
> difference across module boundaries.
>
> Let's say you have a library that defines your functions at phase 0, or 
> runtime.
>
> ; lib.rkt
> #lang racket/base
> (provide (all-defined-out))
> (define (my-function x) (+ x 1))  (define (my-macro stx)
> (datum->syntax stx (my-function (cadr (syntax->datum stx)
>
> Now let's have another module use the syntax transformer. I'm handwaving 
> around some details because `define-syntax` and `define-for-syntax` are not 
> the same, but I'd like to focus on illustrating how phases operate.
>
> #lang racket/base
> (require "lib.rkt")
> (my-macro #'(x 1))
>
> The reason this works is because all the bindings are in the same phase. That 
> is, everything was defined in the same pass. Now let's shift it all one phase 
> up, which will break the program because it no longer sees my-macro, or even 
> enough of racket/base to apply functions.
>
> #lang racket/base
> (require (for-syntax "lib.rkt"))
> (my-macro #'(x 1))
>
> Right now `my-macro` is in phase 1 relative to this module. So we have to 
> "lift" the rest of the code to match.
>
> #lang racket/base
> (require (for-syntax racket/base "lib.rkt"))
> (begin-for-syntax (my-macro #'(x 1)))
>
> This still isn't particularly useful because most of the time, a module 
> manages multiple phases at once. It can be harder to visualize, but the 
> principle is the same: When code runs at a certain phase, is everything that 
> code needs to run also available at that phase? It's still just Racket. I 
> like to visualize it as running at a different "layer" on top of the code 
> that I know will eventually execute at runtime. Here's another example that 
> can help drive the point home. Run it using the `racket` command.
>
> #lang racket/base
> (require (for-syntax racket/base))
>
> (define a "foo")
> (define-for-syntax a 1)
>
> (displayln a)
> (begin-for-syntax (displayln a))
>
> Notice that you see "1" first, before "foo", even though the displayln for 
> the "1" is after the displayln for "foo".
>
> So to answer your question, if you have something you want available across 
> phases, you need to bind that same value across phases. Here's a simplified 
> example.
>
> #lang racket/base
> (require (for-syntax racket/base))
>
> (define-syntax-rule (define-across-phases id v)
> (begin (define id v)
> (define-for-syntax id v)))
>
> (define-across-phases a 1)
>
> (displayln a)
>
> (begin-for-syntax (displayln a))
>
> Notice that I leverage a phase to define an identifier twice: Once for the 
> current phase, and once for the phase +1 "layer" up.
>
> But... I normally do bind across phases using (require) with both for-syntax 
> and without a phase shift. e.g. (require "lib.rkt" (for-syntax "lib.rkt")). 
> There are times I'll need cross-phase definitions only within one module, but 
> it doesn't come up much for me.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> On 5/9/21 3:53 AM, Yushuo Xiao wrote:
>
>> I am using syntax transformers to define macros in Racket. I want to create 
>> some helper functions to help me manipulate the syntax. However, the 
>> functions I defined outside the syntax transformer are not available inside 
>> the syntax transformer. For example, in the following code
>>
>> (define (my-function x) (+ x 1))
>>
>> (define-syntax my-macro
>> (lambda (stx)
>> (datum->syntax stx (my-function (cadr (syntax->datum stx))
>>
>> I got the error "my-function: reference to an unbound identifier at phase: 
>> 1; the transformer environment".
>>
>> After some searching, I am able to write the following code so that 
>> `my-function` is available inside the syntax transformer.
>>
>> (begin-for-syntax
>> (define (my-function x) (+ x 1)))
>> (provide (for-syntax my-function))
>>
>> (define-syntax my-macro
>> (lambda (stx)
>> (datum->syntax stx (my-function (cadr (syntax->datum stx))
>>
>> But the problem is, `my-function` is not available outside the syntax 
>> transformer this time. Sometimes I want to check those helper functions in 
>> ordinary code, so I need to be able to call it from both inside and outside 
>> the syntax transformer, just like the function `cadr`. How can I 

Re: [racket-users] Racket - How to define a function that can be used both in syntax transformers and ordinary code?

[Sage Gerard]

I'm stretching details a bit, but maybe it would help to think of phases as 
"passes." That is, there's a compile-time "pass" where Racket is focuses on the 
code you write and what they can see. These passes continue until the Racket 
program is fully expanded.

Where things get tricky is remembering that when you create a binding at one 
phase, it is available for that phase. It's a little easier to tell the 
difference across module boundaries.

Let's say you have a library that defines your functions at phase 0, or runtime.

; lib.rkt
#lang racket/base
(provide (all-defined-out))
(define (my-function x) (+ x 1))  (define (my-macro stx)
(datum->syntax stx (my-function (cadr (syntax->datum stx)

Now let's have another module use the syntax transformer. I'm handwaving around 
some details because `define-syntax` and `define-for-syntax` are not the same, 
but I'd like to focus on illustrating how phases operate.

#lang racket/base
(require "lib.rkt")
(my-macro #'(x 1))

The reason this works is because all the bindings are in the same phase. That 
is, everything was defined in the same pass. Now let's shift it all one phase 
up, which will break the program because it no longer sees my-macro, or even 
enough of racket/base to apply functions.

#lang racket/base
(require (for-syntax "lib.rkt"))
(my-macro #'(x 1))

Right now `my-macro` is in phase 1 relative to this module. So we have to 
"lift" the rest of the code to match.

#lang racket/base
(require (for-syntax racket/base "lib.rkt"))
(begin-for-syntax (my-macro #'(x 1)))

This still isn't particularly useful because most of the time, a module manages 
multiple phases at once. It can be harder to visualize, but the principle is 
the same: When code runs at a certain phase, is everything that code needs to 
run also available at that phase? It's still just Racket. I like to visualize 
it as running at a different "layer" on top of the code that I know will 
eventually execute at runtime. Here's another example that can help drive the 
point home. Run it using the `racket` command.

#lang racket/base
(require (for-syntax racket/base))

(define a "foo")
(define-for-syntax a 1)

(displayln a)
(begin-for-syntax (displayln a))

Notice that you see "1" first, before "foo", even though the displayln for the 
"1" is after the displayln for "foo".

So to answer your question, if you have something you want available across 
phases, you need to bind that same value across phases. Here's a simplified 
example.

#lang racket/base
(require (for-syntax racket/base))

(define-syntax-rule (define-across-phases id v)
(begin (define id v)
(define-for-syntax id v)))

(define-across-phases a 1)

(displayln a)

(begin-for-syntax (displayln a))

Notice that I leverage a phase to define an identifier twice: Once for the 
current phase, and once for the phase +1 "layer" up.

But... I normally do bind across phases using (require) with both for-syntax 
and without a phase shift. e.g. (require "lib.rkt" (for-syntax "lib.rkt")). 
There are times I'll need cross-phase definitions only within one module, but 
it doesn't come up much for me.

Hope this helps.

On 5/9/21 3:53 AM, Yushuo Xiao wrote:

> I am using syntax transformers to define macros in Racket. I want to create 
> some helper functions to help me manipulate the syntax. However, the 
> functions I defined outside the syntax transformer are not available inside 
> the syntax transformer. For example, in the following code
>
> (define (my-function x) (+ x 1))
>
> (define-syntax my-macro
> (lambda (stx)
> (datum->syntax stx (my-function (cadr (syntax->datum stx))
>
> I got the error "my-function: reference to an unbound identifier at phase: 1; 
> the transformer environment".
>
> After some searching, I am able to write the following code so that 
> `my-function` is available inside the syntax transformer.
>
> (begin-for-syntax
> (define (my-function x) (+ x 1)))
> (provide (for-syntax my-function))
>
> (define-syntax my-macro
> (lambda (stx)
> (datum->syntax stx (my-function (cadr (syntax->datum stx))
>
> But the problem is, `my-function` is not available outside the syntax 
> transformer this time. Sometimes I want to check those helper functions in 
> ordinary code, so I need to be able to call it from both inside and outside 
> the syntax transformer, just like the function `cadr`. How can I achieve that?
>
> I know my question has something to do with Racket's syntax model, in 
> particular the concept of "phase level", but I never really understand it. If 
> you could provide some easy-to-follow tutorials explaining it I would even be 
> more grateful.
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Racket Users" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> 

[racket-users] Racket - How to define a function that can be used both in syntax transformers and ordinary code?

[Yushuo Xiao]

I am using syntax transformers to define macros in Racket. I want to create 
some helper functions to help me manipulate the syntax. However, the 
functions I defined outside the syntax transformer are not available inside 
the syntax transformer. For example, in the following code

(define (my-function x) (+ x 1))

(define-syntax my-macro
  (lambda (stx)
(datum->syntax stx (my-function (cadr (syntax->datum stx))

I got the error "my-function: reference to an unbound identifier at phase: 
1; the transformer environment".

After some searching, I am able to write the following code so that 
`my-function` is available inside the syntax transformer.

(begin-for-syntax
  (define (my-function x) (+ x 1)))
(provide (for-syntax my-function))

(define-syntax my-macro
  (lambda (stx)
(datum->syntax stx (my-function (cadr (syntax->datum stx))

But the problem is, `my-function` is not available outside the syntax 
transformer this time. Sometimes I want to check those helper functions in 
ordinary code, so I need to be able to call it from both inside and outside 
the syntax transformer, just like the function `cadr`. How can I achieve 
that?

I know my question has something to do with Racket's syntax model, in 
particular the concept of "phase level", but I never really understand it. 
If you could provide some easy-to-follow tutorials explaining it I would 
even be more grateful.

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[racket-users] Racket v8.1

['John Clements' via Racket Users]

--
Racket version 8.1 is now available from

https://racket-lang.org/


- DrRacket tabs can be dragged, and have new close buttons.

- Racket CS supports cross-compilation using `raco exe`.

- Racket CS supports Android on 32-bit and 64-bit ARM processors.

- The database library supports running queries in OS threads.

- Check-Syntax arrows correctly identify the definition site of
  identifiers with contracts.

- Racket CS performance has improved for structure predicates and
  accessors

- Racket CS is faster at multiplying extremely large numbers and
  dividing large integers.

- Racket CS allows callbacks to raise exceptions if they are annotated
  with `#:callback-exns?`.

- New ephemeron hash tables simplify the implementation of tables where
  keys can refer to values.

- Typed Racket supports for/foldr.

- The stepper works for #lang htdp/*sl.

- Struct signatures work for the ASL teaching language.

The following people contributed to this release:

Alex Harsányi, Alex Knauth, Alexander Shopov, Alexis King, Andrew
Mauer-Oats, Anish Athalye, Ben Greenman, Bert De Ketelaere, Bob Burger,
Bogdan Popa, Brian Adkins, Cameron Moy, David Van Horn, Dexter Lagan,
Dominik Pantůček, Fred Fu, Greg Hendershott, Gustavo Massaccesi, Hazel
Levine, Ismael Luceno, Jack Firth, Jarhmander, John Clements, Jörgen
Brandt, Laurent Orseau, Lazerbeak12345, Matthew Flatt, Matthias
Felleisen, Micah Cantor, Mike Sperber, Noah Ma, Patrick McCarty, Paulo
Matos, Pavel Panchekha, Philip McGrath, Philippe Meunier, R. Kent
Dybvig, Robby Findler, Ryan Culpepper, Ryan Kramer, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt,
Sergiu Ivanov, Shu-Hung You, Sorawee Porncharoenwase, Stephen De
Gabrielle, William J. Bowman, bmitc, xxyzz, yjqww6, and ymdarake

Feedback Welcome
--

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[racket-users] Racket News - Issue 49

[Paulo Matos]

Hi all,

Apologies all for the yatus on Racket News - but we are back.
Issue 49 is finally here and packed with lots of Racket goodness:
https://racket-news.com/2021/05/racket-news-issue-49.html

Enjoy,

-- 
Paulo Matos

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[racket-users] racket-prefs

[Don Green]

Using Racket on Ubuntu. Was Racket version 7 now version 8.
New default racket-prefs file is in effect.
Still have access to older versions of racket-prefs.
Thought the new Racket install would continue to reference my previous 
racket-prefs file.
a)  Any thoughts about why any time I install new Racket it points to new 
racket-prefs file?
b)  Should I manually reconfigure the new racket-prefs file?
c)  Should I backup the new racket-prefs file and position a copy of the 
previous file in it's place?
Thanks
Don


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[racket-users] racket text://protocol client

[Petite Abeille]

Hello,

Would you know of any racket text://protocol clients? Or servers? [1][2][3]

Thanks in advance.

[1] https://textprotocol.org
[2] https://github.com/textprotocol/public
[3] https://github.com/textprotocol/publictext

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Re: [racket-users] Racket Dev Sessions Streamed on Twitch

[Yury Bulka]

Thank you for sharing! Looking forward to watching :)

--
Yury Bulka
https://mamot.fr/@setthemfree
#NotOnFacebook



Lindsey Handley  writes:

> Shameless plug here...
>
> For the past several months, Stephen Foster  
> and I have been live streaming our game development in Racket on Twitch:
> https://www.twitch.tv/codespells
>
> We'd love to see some Racketeers! Feel free to stop by anytime and say hi, 
> or just hangout and watch some Racket programming! We generally stream from 
> ~9:30am-12pm M-F. You can follow us on Twitch for notifications when we go 
> live.
>
> If you'd like to learn more about the project, you can find information and 
> our blog on our website: https://codespells.org/

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[racket-users] Racket Dev Sessions Streamed on Twitch

[Lindsey Handley]

Shameless plug here...

For the past several months, Stephen Foster  
and I have been live streaming our game development in Racket on Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/codespells

We'd love to see some Racketeers! Feel free to stop by anytime and say hi, 
or just hangout and watch some Racket programming! We generally stream from 
~9:30am-12pm M-F. You can follow us on Twitch for notifications when we go 
live.

If you'd like to learn more about the project, you can find information and 
our blog on our website: https://codespells.org/

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[racket-users] Racket News - Issue 48

[Paulo Matos]

Hi all,

Issue 48 of RN has landed... 
https://racket-news.com/2021/03/racket-news-issue-48.html

Enjoy it, if possible with a strong espresso!

Keep Racketing,

Paulo Matos

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Re: [racket-users] Racket slower than Chez Scheme on interpreter benchmark, potential low hanging fruit?

[Sorawee Porncharoenwase]

With the recent improvements by Phil, the rank of the syntax object variant
moves up from 26th to the second (what?!?), losing only to c++ / g++.
Moreover, it's significantly faster than the third place.

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 3:29 AM philngu...@gmail.com <
philnguyen0...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Oh I see. So one problem is here that `match-define` expands to `match`
> with an implicit error case, which at the low level, isn't distinguished
> from a user-written second case, and the tag check can't just be eliminated.
>
> On Thursday, March 4, 2021 at 9:40:22 AM UTC-8 Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote:
>
>> I think there are two reasons that code gets slower.
>>
>> 1. The `match-define` includes pair and struct checks, which are
>> omitted for plain accessor uses because of the unsafe declaration.
>> 2. That use of `match` expands to `define-values` which ends up as a
>> `call-with-values` and a `case-lambda` at the chez layer and is not
>> removed.
>>
>> `match` could recognize that it's being compiled with unsafe mode and
>> omit these checks, although it's not that straightforward. Also
>> schemify (or Chez) could do more to eliminate the use of multiple
>> values, although that's hard without eliminating the failure cases.
>>
>> Sam
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 3:23 AM philngu...@gmail.com
>>  wrote:
>> >
>> > Thanks for the tip about PLT_CS_COMPILE_LIMIT! I submitted a revision
>> to the syntax object variant that incorporated sleepnova's and yjqww6's
>> improvements.
>> >
>> > Also, I never knew about `(#%declare #:unsafe)` until I saw yjqww6's
>> pull request. It makes a noticeable difference. One unsatisfying thing is
>> that in one place, if I replace the 4 separate define clauses with just
>> `(match-define (cons (op o val) rst) parsed)`, the benchmarks are more than
>> twice slower.
>> >
>> > On Wednesday, March 3, 2021 at 11:12:30 AM UTC-8 Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> First, there's no longer a difference because yjqww6 just had a PR
>> >> merged that improves the Racket performance.
>> >>
>> >> The performance difference that was there was mostly because the Chez
>> >> code was run with `--optimize-level 3` which turns off safety. If that
>> >> was changed to `--optimize-level 2` the timing became much slower.
>> >>
>> >> Sam
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Mar 1, 2021 at 2:39 AM philngu...@gmail.com
>> >>  wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > There’s this benchmark on BF interpreter where the Racket and Chez
>> Scheme implementations are very similar, but Chez Scheme is much faster
>> than Racket 8.0 at interpreting bench.b (3s vs 8s) and mandel.b (40s vs
>> 136s).
>> >> >
>> >> > There’s the “Racket (Syntax Object)” variant that directly parses
>> BF’s syntax into Racket syntax object, which is faster (3.7s for bench, 82s
>> for mandel), but still significantly behind Chez Scheme’s naive
>> interpreter.
>> >> >
>> >> > Profiling doesn’t give very illuminating results, saying most of the
>> cost is from interpreting BF’s loop instruction.
>> >> >
>> >> > Given that Racket is on Chez, could this benchmark reveal some low
>> hanging fruit for improving Racket’s performance?
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "Racket Users" group.
>> >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>> send an email to racket-users...@googlegroups.com.
>> >> > To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/83b2819d-8295-4769-944d-fa0c155976dan%40googlegroups.com.
>>
>> >
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "Racket Users" group.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>> an email to racket-users...@googlegroups.com.
>> > To view this discussion on the web visit
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>>
>>
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> .
>

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Re: [racket-users] Racket slower than Chez Scheme on interpreter benchmark, potential low hanging fruit?

[philngu...@gmail.com]

Oh I see. So one problem is here that `match-define` expands to `match` 
with an implicit error case, which at the low level, isn't distinguished 
from a user-written second case, and the tag check can't just be eliminated.

On Thursday, March 4, 2021 at 9:40:22 AM UTC-8 Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote:

> I think there are two reasons that code gets slower.
>
> 1. The `match-define` includes pair and struct checks, which are
> omitted for plain accessor uses because of the unsafe declaration.
> 2. That use of `match` expands to `define-values` which ends up as a
> `call-with-values` and a `case-lambda` at the chez layer and is not
> removed.
>
> `match` could recognize that it's being compiled with unsafe mode and
> omit these checks, although it's not that straightforward. Also
> schemify (or Chez) could do more to eliminate the use of multiple
> values, although that's hard without eliminating the failure cases.
>
> Sam
>
> On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 3:23 AM philngu...@gmail.com
>  wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for the tip about PLT_CS_COMPILE_LIMIT! I submitted a revision to 
> the syntax object variant that incorporated sleepnova's and yjqww6's 
> improvements.
> >
> > Also, I never knew about `(#%declare #:unsafe)` until I saw yjqww6's 
> pull request. It makes a noticeable difference. One unsatisfying thing is 
> that in one place, if I replace the 4 separate define clauses with just 
> `(match-define (cons (op o val) rst) parsed)`, the benchmarks are more than 
> twice slower.
> >
> > On Wednesday, March 3, 2021 at 11:12:30 AM UTC-8 Sam Tobin-Hochstadt 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> First, there's no longer a difference because yjqww6 just had a PR
> >> merged that improves the Racket performance.
> >>
> >> The performance difference that was there was mostly because the Chez
> >> code was run with `--optimize-level 3` which turns off safety. If that
> >> was changed to `--optimize-level 2` the timing became much slower.
> >>
> >> Sam
> >>
> >> On Mon, Mar 1, 2021 at 2:39 AM philngu...@gmail.com
> >>  wrote:
> >> >
> >> > There’s this benchmark on BF interpreter where the Racket and Chez 
> Scheme implementations are very similar, but Chez Scheme is much faster 
> than Racket 8.0 at interpreting bench.b (3s vs 8s) and mandel.b (40s vs 
> 136s).
> >> >
> >> > There’s the “Racket (Syntax Object)” variant that directly parses 
> BF’s syntax into Racket syntax object, which is faster (3.7s for bench, 82s 
> for mandel), but still significantly behind Chez Scheme’s naive interpreter.
> >> >
> >> > Profiling doesn’t give very illuminating results, saying most of the 
> cost is from interpreting BF’s loop instruction.
> >> >
> >> > Given that Racket is on Chez, could this benchmark reveal some low 
> hanging fruit for improving Racket’s performance?
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "Racket Users" group.
> >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
> send an email to racket-users...@googlegroups.com.
> >> > To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/83b2819d-8295-4769-944d-fa0c155976dan%40googlegroups.com
> .
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "Racket Users" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an email to racket-users...@googlegroups.com.
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/a5e77286-68b8-481a-8dea-0f547c5ce968n%40googlegroups.com
> .
>

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Re: [racket-users] Racket Meetup! 6 March

[Dominik Pantůček]

Hello Racketeers,

just a friendly reminder here on the ML - this Saturday brings the next
monthly Racket meetup(s) in Gather Town!


>From the latest Racket News[1]:

6 March 2021 TWO sessions

11 am Pacific Time
4:30 pm UK time

See you there!

Dominik

[1] https://racket-news.com/2021/03/racket-news-issue-47.html

On 06. 02. 21 21:05, Stephen De Gabrielle wrote:
> 
> Thank you to Eli Barzilay for joining us on today's meetup to discuss
> the paper 'A Foreign Function Interface'. 
> 
> And a big thank you to Sam Philips for organising this event and
> making sure it happens. (all I did was the racket news announcement so
> thank you Sam)
>  
> I had to leave a little early but I wanted to communicate the date and
> time for the next meetup:
> 
> Racket users video meetup
> 6 March 2021 at 8pm CET, via Gather Town.
> https://gather.town/app/wH1EDG3McffLjrs0/racket-users
> 
> Paper for discussion (optional pre-reading) is:  To be decided! 
> 
> (Note - we do take suggestions if you have something that interests or
> excites you - and other media would also be considered; blog post,
> video, package, app - as long as it is Racket related)
> 
> Kind regards
> 
> Stephen De Gabrielle
> 
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Re: [racket-users] Racket slower than Chez Scheme on interpreter benchmark, potential low hanging fruit?

[Sam Tobin-Hochstadt]

I think there are two reasons that code gets slower.

1. The `match-define` includes pair and struct checks, which are
omitted for plain accessor uses because of the unsafe declaration.
2. That use of `match` expands to `define-values` which ends up as a
`call-with-values` and a `case-lambda` at the chez layer and is not
removed.

`match` could recognize that it's being compiled with unsafe mode and
omit these checks, although it's not that straightforward. Also
schemify (or Chez) could do more to eliminate the use of multiple
values, although that's hard without eliminating the failure cases.

Sam

On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 3:23 AM philngu...@gmail.com
 wrote:
>
> Thanks for the tip about PLT_CS_COMPILE_LIMIT! I submitted a revision to the 
> syntax object variant that incorporated sleepnova's and yjqww6's improvements.
>
> Also, I never knew about `(#%declare #:unsafe)` until I saw yjqww6's pull 
> request. It makes a noticeable difference. One unsatisfying thing is that in 
> one place, if I replace the 4 separate define clauses with just 
> `(match-define (cons (op o val) rst) parsed)`, the benchmarks are more than 
> twice slower.
>
> On Wednesday, March 3, 2021 at 11:12:30 AM UTC-8 Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote:
>>
>> First, there's no longer a difference because yjqww6 just had a PR
>> merged that improves the Racket performance.
>>
>> The performance difference that was there was mostly because the Chez
>> code was run with `--optimize-level 3` which turns off safety. If that
>> was changed to `--optimize-level 2` the timing became much slower.
>>
>> Sam
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 1, 2021 at 2:39 AM philngu...@gmail.com
>>  wrote:
>> >
>> > There’s this benchmark on BF interpreter where the Racket and Chez Scheme 
>> > implementations are very similar, but Chez Scheme is much faster than 
>> > Racket 8.0 at interpreting bench.b (3s vs 8s) and mandel.b (40s vs 136s).
>> >
>> > There’s the “Racket (Syntax Object)” variant that directly parses BF’s 
>> > syntax into Racket syntax object, which is faster (3.7s for bench, 82s for 
>> > mandel), but still significantly behind Chez Scheme’s naive interpreter.
>> >
>> > Profiling doesn’t give very illuminating results, saying most of the cost 
>> > is from interpreting BF’s loop instruction.
>> >
>> > Given that Racket is on Chez, could this benchmark reveal some low hanging 
>> > fruit for improving Racket’s performance?
>> >
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> > "Racket Users" group.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> > email to racket-users...@googlegroups.com.
>> > To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/83b2819d-8295-4769-944d-fa0c155976dan%40googlegroups.com.
>
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[racket-users] Racket News - Issue 47

[Paulo Matos]

Racket News is once again here... yes, it's one of *those* weeks!

https://racket-news.com/2021/03/racket-news-issue-47.html

Enjoy!

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Re: [racket-users] Racket slower than Chez Scheme on interpreter benchmark, potential low hanging fruit?

[philngu...@gmail.com]

Thanks for the tip about PLT_CS_COMPILE_LIMIT! I submitted a revision to 
the syntax object variant that incorporated sleepnova's and yjqww6's 
improvements.

Also, I never knew about `(#%declare #:unsafe)` until I saw yjqww6's pull 
request. It makes a noticeable difference. One unsatisfying thing is that 
in one place, if I replace the 4 separate define clauses 

 
with just `(match-define (cons (op o val) rst) parsed)`, the benchmarks are 
more than twice slower.

On Wednesday, March 3, 2021 at 11:12:30 AM UTC-8 Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote:

> First, there's no longer a difference because yjqww6 just had a PR
> merged that improves the Racket performance.
>
> The performance difference that was there was mostly because the Chez
> code was run with `--optimize-level 3` which turns off safety. If that
> was changed to `--optimize-level 2` the timing became much slower.
>
> Sam
>
> On Mon, Mar 1, 2021 at 2:39 AM philngu...@gmail.com
>  wrote:
> >
> > There’s this benchmark on BF interpreter where the Racket and Chez 
> Scheme implementations are very similar, but Chez Scheme is much faster 
> than Racket 8.0 at interpreting bench.b (3s vs 8s) and mandel.b (40s vs 
> 136s).
> >
> > There’s the “Racket (Syntax Object)” variant that directly parses BF’s 
> syntax into Racket syntax object, which is faster (3.7s for bench, 82s for 
> mandel), but still significantly behind Chez Scheme’s naive interpreter.
> >
> > Profiling doesn’t give very illuminating results, saying most of the 
> cost is from interpreting BF’s loop instruction.
> >
> > Given that Racket is on Chez, could this benchmark reveal some low 
> hanging fruit for improving Racket’s performance?
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "Racket Users" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an email to racket-users...@googlegroups.com.
> > To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/83b2819d-8295-4769-944d-fa0c155976dan%40googlegroups.com
> .
>

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Re: [racket-users] Racket slower than Chez Scheme on interpreter benchmark, potential low hanging fruit?

[Sam Tobin-Hochstadt]

First, there's no longer a difference because yjqww6 just had a PR
merged that improves the Racket performance.

The performance difference that was there was mostly because the Chez
code was run with `--optimize-level 3` which turns off safety. If that
was changed to `--optimize-level 2` the timing became much slower.

Sam

On Mon, Mar 1, 2021 at 2:39 AM philngu...@gmail.com
 wrote:
>
> There’s this benchmark on BF interpreter where the Racket and Chez Scheme 
> implementations are very similar, but Chez Scheme is much faster than Racket 
> 8.0 at interpreting bench.b (3s vs 8s) and mandel.b (40s vs 136s).
>
> There’s the “Racket (Syntax Object)” variant that directly parses BF’s syntax 
> into Racket syntax object, which is faster (3.7s for bench, 82s for mandel), 
> but still significantly behind Chez Scheme’s naive interpreter.
>
> Profiling doesn’t give very illuminating results, saying most of the cost is 
> from interpreting BF’s loop instruction.
>
> Given that Racket is on Chez, could this benchmark reveal some low hanging 
> fruit for improving Racket’s performance?
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Racket Users" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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Re: [racket-users] Racket slower than Chez Scheme on interpreter benchmark, potential low hanging fruit?

[Dexter Lagan]

  For what it's worth, I ran my own benchmark on Racket 8.0 and Racket 
8.0.10 (current), and current is between 50 and 100% faster for certain 
operations. There must have been some optimizations done recently to 
current.

Dex
On Tuesday, March 2, 2021 at 9:37:29 AM UTC+1 wanp...@gmail.com wrote:

> I previously came out with a version that converts a BF program directly 
> into a module, which has received some optimization contributions from 
> Matthew Flatt.
> Got some pretty good results.
>
> Execute bench.b in cpu time: 1542 ms, (2.2s include compile time).
>
> And mandel.b in cpu time: 3851 ms, (7s include compile time). But you have 
> to manually "export PLT_CS_COMPILE_LIMIT=10" environment variable in 
> order to get compiled and executed properly.
>
> https://gist.github.com/sleepnova/92d7b2a7f077e7de76da4ce31f60335e
>
> philngu...@gmail.com  於 2021年3月1日 週一 下午3:39寫道：
>
>> There’s this benchmark on BF interpreter where the Racket 
>>  and Chez 
>> Scheme  
>> implementations are very similar, but Chez Scheme is much faster than 
>> Racket 8.0 at interpreting bench.b 
>>  (3s vs 8s) and mandel.b 
>>  (40s vs 136s).
>>
>> There’s the “Racket (Syntax Object) 
>> ”
>>  
>> variant that directly parses BF’s syntax into Racket syntax object, which 
>> is faster (3.7s for bench, 82s for mandel), but still significantly behind 
>> Chez Scheme’s naive interpreter.
>>
>> Profiling doesn’t give very illuminating results, saying most of the cost 
>> is from interpreting BF’s loop instruction.
>>
>> Given that Racket is on Chez, could this benchmark reveal some low 
>> hanging fruit for improving Racket’s performance?
>>
>> -- 
>>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "Racket Users" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to racket-users...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/83b2819d-8295-4769-944d-fa0c155976dan%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
> - sleepnova
> 呼叫小黃創辦人 & CEO
>

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Re: [racket-users] Racket slower than Chez Scheme on interpreter benchmark, potential low hanging fruit?

[sleepnova]

I previously came out with a version that converts a BF program directly
into a module, which has received some optimization contributions from
Matthew Flatt.
Got some pretty good results.

Execute bench.b in cpu time: 1542 ms, (2.2s include compile time).

And mandel.b in cpu time: 3851 ms, (7s include compile time). But you have
to manually "export PLT_CS_COMPILE_LIMIT=10" environment variable in
order to get compiled and executed properly.

https://gist.github.com/sleepnova/92d7b2a7f077e7de76da4ce31f60335e

philngu...@gmail.com  於 2021年3月1日 週一 下午3:39寫道：

> There’s this benchmark on BF interpreter where the Racket
>  and Chez
> Scheme 
> implementations are very similar, but Chez Scheme is much faster than
> Racket 8.0 at interpreting bench.b
>  (3s vs 8s) and mandel.b
>  (40s vs 136s).
>
> There’s the “Racket (Syntax Object)
> ”
> variant that directly parses BF’s syntax into Racket syntax object, which
> is faster (3.7s for bench, 82s for mandel), but still significantly behind
> Chez Scheme’s naive interpreter.
>
> Profiling doesn’t give very illuminating results, saying most of the cost
> is from interpreting BF’s loop instruction.
>
> Given that Racket is on Chez, could this benchmark reveal some low hanging
> fruit for improving Racket’s performance?
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Racket Users" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/83b2819d-8295-4769-944d-fa0c155976dan%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>


-- 
- sleepnova
呼叫小黃創辦人 & CEO

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Re: [racket-users] Racket slower than Chez Scheme on interpreter benchmark, potential low hanging fruit?

[Sam Tobin-Hochstadt]

When Chez is faster than Racket CS, the usual culprits are either:
- mutable pairs
- very large code size that causes Racket CS to interpret the outer module

However, neither of those seem to be happening here.

Sam

On Mon, Mar 1, 2021 at 2:39 AM philngu...@gmail.com
 wrote:
>
> There’s this benchmark on BF interpreter where the Racket and Chez Scheme 
> implementations are very similar, but Chez Scheme is much faster than Racket 
> 8.0 at interpreting bench.b (3s vs 8s) and mandel.b (40s vs 136s).
>
> There’s the “Racket (Syntax Object)” variant that directly parses BF’s syntax 
> into Racket syntax object, which is faster (3.7s for bench, 82s for mandel), 
> but still significantly behind Chez Scheme’s naive interpreter.
>
> Profiling doesn’t give very illuminating results, saying most of the cost is 
> from interpreting BF’s loop instruction.
>
> Given that Racket is on Chez, could this benchmark reveal some low hanging 
> fruit for improving Racket’s performance?
>
> --
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> "Racket Users" group.
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Re: [racket-users] racket-launcher-names and easing the user experience

[Matthew Flatt]

The path for executables in user-scope installation is always like
that. As far as I know, think there's not a great answer for where to
put user-scope executables, especially across platforms.

One more option to consider: add a `raco` command. That avoids the PATH
issue by changing the PATH search into a raco-tool search as controlled
by "info.rkt" files.

At Mon, 1 Mar 2021 10:52:42 +, Laurent wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I want to share a program with non-racketeers, as a package/collection
> named myprog (say), and I want to make it as simple as possible for the
> user.
> 
> [The Racket Installation instructions need some work by the way, it's not
> very user friendly on linux. It could at least say that `[sudo] apt install
> racket` should work on debian/ubuntu (thanks Asumu!), but also say to
> otherwise download the .sh and run it with `$ sh racket-...sh`]
> 
> My first idea was to have the user run:
> $ racket -l- myprog args ...
> 
> but I'm told `racket-launcher-names
>  x._%28gentag._18._%28lib._scribblings%2Fraco%2Fraco..scrbl%29%29%29>`
> may make it even simpler as the user could invoke
> $ myprog args ...
> 
> which is neat. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be so straightforward due
> to PATH issues:
> I installed a snapshot/nightly as a unix distribution (as I always do), and
> the myprog launcher is successfully created at
> /home//.racket/snapshot/bin/myprog
> but this isn't in my PATH, so it can't be found and the 'neat'
> invocation above doesn't work.
> 
> Questions:
> * Is this specific to my weird snapshot+Unix-style installation?
> * Can I expect this to work trouble-free on Windows, Mac, Linux (at least
> debian/ubuntu) when installing a release the way a new user would do?
> 
> If it requires any work by the user to make it work, it seems that asking
> to do
> $ racket -l- myprog
> is simpler.
> 
> Thanks,
> Laurent
> 
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> C%2BKw8S-pPKdww-ffDg%40mail.gmail.com.

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[racket-users] racket-launcher-names and easing the user experience

[Laurent]

Hi all,

I want to share a program with non-racketeers, as a package/collection
named myprog (say), and I want to make it as simple as possible for the
user.

[The Racket Installation instructions need some work by the way, it's not
very user friendly on linux. It could at least say that `[sudo] apt install
racket` should work on debian/ubuntu (thanks Asumu!), but also say to
otherwise download the .sh and run it with `$ sh racket-...sh`]

My first idea was to have the user run:
$ racket -l- myprog args ...

but I'm told `racket-launcher-names
`
may make it even simpler as the user could invoke
$ myprog args ...

which is neat. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be so straightforward due
to PATH issues:
I installed a snapshot/nightly as a unix distribution (as I always do), and
the myprog launcher is successfully created at
/home//.racket/snapshot/bin/myprog
but this isn't in my PATH, so it can't be found and the 'neat'
invocation above doesn't work.

Questions:
* Is this specific to my weird snapshot+Unix-style installation?
* Can I expect this to work trouble-free on Windows, Mac, Linux (at least
debian/ubuntu) when installing a release the way a new user would do?

If it requires any work by the user to make it work, it seems that asking
to do
$ racket -l- myprog
is simpler.

Thanks,
Laurent

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[racket-users] Racket slower than Chez Scheme on interpreter benchmark, potential low hanging fruit?

[philngu...@gmail.com]

There’s this benchmark on BF interpreter where the Racket 
 and Chez 
Scheme  
implementations are very similar, but Chez Scheme is much faster than 
Racket 8.0 at interpreting bench.b 
 (3s vs 8s) and mandel.b 
 (40s vs 136s).

There’s the “Racket (Syntax Object) 
” 
variant that directly parses BF’s syntax into Racket syntax object, which 
is faster (3.7s for bench, 82s for mandel), but still significantly behind 
Chez Scheme’s naive interpreter.

Profiling doesn’t give very illuminating results, saying most of the cost 
is from interpreting BF’s loop instruction.

Given that Racket is on Chez, could this benchmark reveal some low hanging 
fruit for improving Racket’s performance?

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Re: [racket-users] [racket users] list question

[Kevin Forchione]

> On Feb 25, 2021, at 10:12 AM, Norman Gray  wrote:
> 
> 
> I think this is called 'zip', or a convolution [1].  The variant you describe 
> is (effectively) with circular lists, but seems to be the same principle.
> 
> ...and I see that, with that name in hand, SRFI/1 does indeed have a zip 
> procedure, which works with circular lists.

Thanks, Norman! Looks like “zip” is the right name for the general process, and 
now that I can browse the docs for it there seems to be several flavors in 
various library modules, depending on creator intention.  I’ve generalized mine 
a bit to fit intention and some of theirs. 

(define/contract (zip #:length (len max) . lsts)
  (->* () (#:length (or/c procedure? natural?)) #:rest (listof list?) (listof 
list?))
  (define (loop cnt (acc empty))
(cond
  [(zero? cnt) acc]
  [else
   (define n (sub1 cnt))
   (loop n (cons (map (λ (lst) (list-ref lst (modulo n (length lst 
lsts) acc))]))
  (loop (cond
  [(procedure? len)
   (apply len (map length lsts))]
[else len])))

Kevin

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Re: [racket-users] [racket users] list question

[Norman Gray]

Kevin, hello.

On 25 Feb 2021, at 17:07, Kevin Forchione wrote:

As you can see each element of the sublist corresponds to the list-ref 
of the modulo n (length sublist) as n proceeds from 0 to  some maximum 
value. I’ve created a function that does exactly this, but … 
I’ve no idea what this process might be called. As they say, the 
naming of cats, and all that.Does this sort of mapping have a formal 
name?


I think this is called 'zip', or a convolution [1].  The variant you 
describe is (effectively) with circular lists, but seems to be the same 
principle.


...and I see that, with that name in hand, SRFI/1 does indeed have a zip 
procedure, which works with circular lists.


[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convolution_(computer_science)

Best wishes,

Norman


--
Norman Gray  :  https://nxg.me.uk
SUPA School of Physics and Astronomy, University of Glasgow, UK

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[racket-users] [racket users] list question

[Kevin Forchione]

Hi guys,
I’m trying to find out what this process may be called. Suppose you have lists 
of various lengths:

‘(A B C D E F)
‘(1 2)
‘(3 4 5)

And you want tho produce the following:

'((A 1 3) (B 2 4) (C 1 5) (D 2 3) (E 1 4) (F 2 5) (A 1 3) (B 2 4) (C 1 5) (D 2 
3) ...)

As you can see each element of the sublist corresponds to the list-ref of the 
modulo n (length sublist) as n proceeds from 0 to  some maximum value. I’ve 
created a function that does exactly this, but … I’ve no idea what this process 
might be called. As they say, the naming of cats, and all that.Does this sort 
of mapping have a formal name?

Thanks!
Kevin

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Re: [racket-users] Racket v8.0 (!)

[Matthew Flatt]

At Wed, 17 Feb 2021 17:31:04 -0500, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> It looks as if there's no Racket on Chez for 32-bit Linux, though there does 
> seem to be one on Windows.

I've added 32-bit i386 Linux CS to the set of snapshots at Utah:

https://www.cs.utah.edu/plt/snapshots/

https://www.cs.utah.edu/plt/snapshots/current/installers/racket-current-i386-linux-precise.sh


A 32-bit Linux build makes sense as part of the snapshot service, since
part of the job of the service is to make sure things keep working on
various platforms.

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Re: [racket-users] Racket v8.0 (!)

[Hendrik Boom]

On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 09:24:59PM -0500, 'John Clements' via Racket Users 
wrote:
> I think your 32-bit options at this point are these:
> 
> 1) Use one of the nightly builds, e.g. 
> https://plt.cs.northwestern.edu/snapshots/
> 2) Compile it yourself, using the source bundle.
> 3) (Of course, you could use an older version. Looks ilke 7.3 is the last one 
> released in a 32-bit Linux build.)
> 
> Let me know if I’ve forgotten any other options!

It looks as if there's no Racket on Chez for 32-bit Linux, though there does 
seem to be one on Windows.

-- hendrik

> 
> John
> 
> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 15:27, Hendrik Boom  wrote:
> > 
> > On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 12:26:50PM -0500, John Clements wrote:
> >> Help me out: which platform are you referring to?
> > 
> > The Linux one that was on everybody's PC before PC's went 64-bit.
> > I still use that old computer now and then with a stable 
> > Devuan release, especially when I'm on the move.
> > (though normally at home I have a 64-bit one).
> > 
> > -- hendrik
> > 
> >> 
> >> John
> >> 
> >>> On Feb 16, 2021, at 8:10 AM, Hendrik Boom  wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 09:17:26PM -0500, 'John Clements' via Racket 
> >>> Users wrote:
>  *** Racket 8.0 is here! ***
>  
>  Racket version 8.0 is now available from
>  
>    https://racket-lang.org/
> >>> 
> >>> Are there no 32-bit intel binaries available?
> >>> Or did I just look too soon?
> >>> 
> >>> -- hendrik
> >>> 
> >>> -- 
> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> >>> "Racket Users" group.
> >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> >>> email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> >>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/20210216161016.vtmuiws3m3b7mhed%40topoi.pooq.com.
> >> 
> > 
> > -- 
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> 
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Re: [racket-users] Racket v8.0 (!)

['John Clements' via Racket Users]

I think your 32-bit options at this point are these:

1) Use one of the nightly builds, e.g. 
https://plt.cs.northwestern.edu/snapshots/
2) Compile it yourself, using the source bundle.
3) (Of course, you could use an older version. Looks ilke 7.3 is the last one 
released in a 32-bit Linux build.)

Let me know if I’ve forgotten any other options!

John

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 15:27, Hendrik Boom  wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 12:26:50PM -0500, John Clements wrote:
>> Help me out: which platform are you referring to?
> 
> The Linux one that was on everybody's PC before PC's went 64-bit.
> I still use that old computer now and then with a stable 
> Devuan release, especially when I'm on the move.
> (though normally at home I have a 64-bit one).
> 
> -- hendrik
> 
>> 
>> John
>> 
>>> On Feb 16, 2021, at 8:10 AM, Hendrik Boom  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 09:17:26PM -0500, 'John Clements' via Racket Users 
>>> wrote:
 *** Racket 8.0 is here! ***
 
 Racket version 8.0 is now available from
 
   https://racket-lang.org/
>>> 
>>> Are there no 32-bit intel binaries available?
>>> Or did I just look too soon?
>>> 
>>> -- hendrik
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "Racket Users" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/20210216161016.vtmuiws3m3b7mhed%40topoi.pooq.com.
>> 
> 
> -- 
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Re: [racket-users] Racket v8.0 (!)

[Hendrik Boom]

On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 12:26:50PM -0500, John Clements wrote:
> Help me out: which platform are you referring to?

The Linux one that was on everybody's PC before PC's went 64-bit.
I still use that old computer now and then with a stable 
Devuan release, especially when I'm on the move.
(though normally at home I have a 64-bit one).

-- hendrik

> 
> John
> 
> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 8:10 AM, Hendrik Boom  wrote:
> > 
> > On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 09:17:26PM -0500, 'John Clements' via Racket Users 
> > wrote:
> >> *** Racket 8.0 is here! ***
> >> 
> >> Racket version 8.0 is now available from
> >> 
> >>https://racket-lang.org/
> > 
> > Are there no 32-bit intel binaries available?
> > Or did I just look too soon?
> > 
> > -- hendrik
> > 
> > -- 
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> > "Racket Users" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> > email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> > To view this discussion on the web visit 
> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/20210216161016.vtmuiws3m3b7mhed%40topoi.pooq.com.
> 

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Re: [racket-users] Racket v8.0 (!)

['John Clements' via Racket Users]

Help me out: which platform are you referring to?

John

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 8:10 AM, Hendrik Boom  wrote:
> 
> On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 09:17:26PM -0500, 'John Clements' via Racket Users 
> wrote:
>> *** Racket 8.0 is here! ***
>> 
>> Racket version 8.0 is now available from
>> 
>>https://racket-lang.org/
> 
> Are there no 32-bit intel binaries available?
> Or did I just look too soon?
> 
> -- hendrik
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Racket Users" group.
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> email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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Re: [racket-users] Racket v8.0 (!)

[Hendrik Boom]

On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 09:17:26PM -0500, 'John Clements' via Racket Users 
wrote:
> *** Racket 8.0 is here! ***
> 
> Racket version 8.0 is now available from
> 
> https://racket-lang.org/

Are there no 32-bit intel binaries available?
Or did I just look too soon?

-- hendrik

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[racket-users] Racket News - Issue 46

[Paulo Matos]

Hi all,

Issue 46 is here: https://racket-news.com/2021/02/racket-news-issue-46.html

Take a look and enjoy!

-- 
Paulo Matos

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Re: [racket-users] Racket v8.0 (!)

[Sage Gerard]

So exciting! A massive thank you to everyone making Racket even better. :)


~slg

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Saturday, February 13, 2021 9:17 PM, 'John Clements' via Racket Users 
 wrote:

> *** Racket 8.0 is here! ***
>
> Racket version 8.0 is now available from
>
> https://racket-lang.org/
>
> Racket 8.0 marks the first release where Racket CS is the default
> implementation. Creating, polishing, and adopting Racket CS has been a
> 4-year effort involving the entire Racket community. At this point,
> Racket CS is faster, easier to maintain and develop, and compatible
> with existing Racket programs. Racket CS will continue to improve, but
> at this point it is ready to be the primary variant of Racket for all
> Racketeers. More details about the current state of Racket CS are
> available in the recent blog post (https://blog.racket-lang.org/).
>
> Other notable changes:
>
> -   Racket CS has better parallel garbage collection, a 10%-30% reduction
> in the size of generated code, and various targeted optimizations.
>
> -   A rewrite of the test-engine package allows the `#lang` versions of
> teaching languages to produce linked test-failure messages.
>
> -   The release comes with a new mark-up DSL for composing text to
> appear in the REPL (simple-tree-text-markup).
>
> -   Redex has an added `define-overriding-judgment` form and improved
> error source location reporting.
>
> -   Windows scrolling speed reflects the system preference.
> -   The db package uses the utf8mb4 charset for MySQL connections.
>
> The following people contributed to this release:
>
> Alex Harsányi, Alex Knauth, Alexander Shopov, Alexis King, Bert De
> Ketelaere, Bogdan Popa, Cameron Moy, David Van Horn, Davis Silverman,
> Dominik Pantůček, Florian Weimer, Fred Fu, Gustavo Massaccesi, Jack
> Firth, James Wilcox, Joel Dueck, John Clements, Jonathan Chan, Lîm
> Tsú-thuàn, Mark, Matthew Flatt, Matthias Felleisen, Michael Ballantyne,
> Mike Sperber, Paulo Matos, Pavel Panchekha, Peter Zhong, Phil Nguyen,
> Philip McGrath, Robby Findler, Ryan Culpepper, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt,
> Sergiu Ivanov, Shu-Hung You, Sorawee Porncharoenwase, Stefan Schwarzer,
> Stephen Chang, Stephen De Gabrielle, Walter H. Yang, WarGrey Gyoudmon
> Ju, kurinoku, xxyzz, and yjqww6
>
>
> *** Windows users should note that as of this release date (2021-02-13),
> Windows SmartScreen is observed to flag the Racket download bundles
> as potentially malicious, based on the low number of times this
> bundle has been downloaded and installed. Clicking a label with the
> text “more info” appears to be necessary to install Racket
> 8.0. We’re hopeful that this issue will go away … soon? ***
>
>
> ---
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Racket Users" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/06d8e16d-b7d2-41c6-ae76-99e33fecd3bd%40mtasv.net.


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[racket-users] Racket on Corporate Desktop Windows

[Bruce O'Neel]

Hi,  
  
So for quite some while I have been running a minimal racket on my locked down 
windows desktop.   Go to More Installers and Checksums and I grab the Windows 
64bit x86-64 tar ball, untar it, and everyone is happy.  
  
But no GUI of course.  
  
Well I had been building on MacOS for years following the instructions to build 
a Minimal Racket and then run  
  
raco pkg install -i main-distribution  
  
and it finally clicked that the instructions were almost identical for Windows. 
 
  
raco pkg update --auto racket-lib  
raco pkg install -i main-distribution  
  
just like the instructions said.  In my mind I thought "I don't have a build 
toolchain on Windows, so that won't work."  And I was wrong.  It works just 
fine on my locked down desktop and now I have a GUI Dr Racket as well.  
  
cheers  
  
bruce  
  

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[racket-users] Racket v8.0 (!)

['John Clements' via Racket Users]

*** Racket 8.0 is here! ***

Racket version 8.0 is now available from

https://racket-lang.org/

Racket 8.0 marks the first release where Racket CS is the default
implementation. Creating, polishing, and adopting Racket CS has been a
4-year effort involving the entire Racket community. At this point,
Racket CS is faster, easier to maintain and develop, and compatible
with existing Racket programs. Racket CS will continue to improve, but
at this point it is ready to be the primary variant of Racket for all
Racketeers. More details about the current state of Racket CS are
available in the recent blog post (https://blog.racket-lang.org/).

Other notable changes:

* Racket CS has better parallel garbage collection, a 10%-30% reduction
  in the size of generated code, and various targeted optimizations.

* A rewrite of the test-engine package allows the `#lang` versions of
  teaching languages to produce linked test-failure messages.

* The release comes with a new mark-up DSL for composing text to
  appear in the REPL (simple-tree-text-markup).

* Redex has an added `define-overriding-judgment` form  and improved
  error source location reporting.

* Windows scrolling speed reflects the system preference.

* The db package uses the utf8mb4 charset for MySQL connections.

The following people contributed to this release:

Alex Harsányi, Alex Knauth, Alexander Shopov, Alexis King, Bert De
Ketelaere, Bogdan Popa, Cameron Moy, David Van Horn, Davis Silverman,
Dominik Pantůček, Florian Weimer, Fred Fu, Gustavo Massaccesi, Jack
Firth, James Wilcox, Joel Dueck, John Clements, Jonathan Chan, Lîm
Tsú-thuàn, Mark, Matthew Flatt, Matthias Felleisen, Michael Ballantyne,
Mike Sperber, Paulo Matos, Pavel Panchekha, Peter Zhong, Phil Nguyen,
Philip McGrath, Robby Findler, Ryan Culpepper, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt,
Sergiu Ivanov, Shu-Hung You, Sorawee Porncharoenwase, Stefan Schwarzer,
Stephen Chang, Stephen De Gabrielle, Walter H. Yang, WarGrey Gyoudmon
Ju, kurinoku, xxyzz, and yjqww6

--

*** Windows users should note that as of this release date (2021-02-13),
Windows SmartScreen is observed to flag the Racket download bundles
as potentially malicious, based on the low number of times this
bundle has been downloaded and installed. Clicking a label with the
text “more info” appears to be necessary to install Racket
8.0. We’re hopeful that this issue will go away … soon? ***



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[racket-users] Racket Discord (text chat with channels like slack)

[Stephen De Gabrielle]

Hi Racketeers

There is a Racket Discord!

*I do recommend the Racket Slack and IRC* as they have more users - but the
Racket Discord is available as an alternative.

It is mostly used as a text chat service with channels like the Racket
Slack, and it also supports voice, video and screen sharing.

You access it via this invite link
https://discord.gg/6Zq8sH5
You can use the discord client(iOS/android/macOS/Windows/Linux) or use it
via a web browser.

We welcome new and experienced racketeers!

Looking forward to seeing you there.

Stephen

PS  There is also a Racket Taiwan Discord at https://discord.gg/xpwzAcx -
it is multilingual: English, Chinese, and many languages used in Taiwan!


-- 


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[racket-users] Racket Meetup! 6 March

[Stephen De Gabrielle]

Thank you to Eli Barzilay for joining us on today's meetup to discuss the
paper 'A Foreign Function Interface'.

And a big thank you to Sam Philips for organising this event and
making sure it happens. (all I did was the racket news announcement so
thank you Sam)

I had to leave a little early but I wanted to communicate the date and time
for the next meetup:

Racket users video meetup
6 March 2021 at 8pm CET, via Gather Town.
https://gather.town/app/wH1EDG3McffLjrs0/racket-users
Paper for discussion (optional pre-reading) is:  To be decided!

(Note - we do take suggestions if you have something that interests or
excites you - and other media would also be considered; blog post, video,
package, app - as long as it is Racket related)

Kind regards

Stephen De Gabrielle

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[racket-users] Racket users video meetup NOW!

[Stephen De Gabrielle]

https://gather.town/app/wH1EDG3McffLjrs0/racket-users

Racket users video meetup brought to you by Stephen De Gabrielle and Sam
Phillips - Feb. 6, 2021 at 8pm CET, via Gather Town
<https://tools.us18.list-manage.com/track/click?u=2d4bcd7724e2a351c8e594233=b05d9f50cb=94512116cc>.
Paper for discussion (optional pre-reading) is: A Foreign Function Interface
<https://tools.us18.list-manage.com/track/click?u=2d4bcd7724e2a351c8e594233=ab3ad34551=94512116cc>
by
Eli Barzilay & Dmitry Orlovsky.

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