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[Garth]

Yes Patrick Moore ! 
It is all rather silly .   All these "names" for diets . HaH !

The funny thing about them all, is that once they are defined , they are 
impossible to follow , as they create a prison within their own rules . 

For every theory, there is another to refute it. For every refute, there is 
a counter . It never ends .

So to I, it's all false . Truth , real Truth to I , is irrefutable , 
unchangeable and Eternally Good (and I do not mean this as a corporeal 
perspective only).  And no man-made diet or way is any of those .  All 
these false ways of eating or fasting are an attempt to Free themselves 
from self begotten subjective woes of living , and the only true way to do 
this , is to see clearly the falsity of self begotten woe itself .  That 
food or conditions are never the matter, but the Spirit who is All , is the 
only matter as without the Spirit of the man, there is no man . 

The irony is , we're All Already Free !  So all these attempts to free 
ourselves with this and that way of eating and doing all eventually fail 
because there is no bondage to free oneself from !   



On Friday, November 7, 2014 5:17:27 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> It's hard to get annoyed at people who discover a way of eating that makes 
> them feel much better in many different ways, so I have no beef against the 
> -- what do you call'ems, those who eschew starch and eat mostly protein and 
> fat. My own take is that this is just one more example of how people thrive 
> on so many different diets. The Inuit, of course, were traditionally 
> notorious for living largely on meat, fat, and fish and, from what I've 
> read, they were normally healthy. OTOH, Orthodox monks, who never eat meat, 
> and eat dairy only on special occasions -- the very strict eat only 
> vegetables, and oil only on non-strict-fast days -- are themselves 
> notororious for living long and healthy lives, free in particular from the 
> chronic ailments (almost wrote aliments) suffered by the old accustomed to 
> what I think should be called the American commercial diet.  
>
> I was amused and annoyed to see that there is even a formal diet, with 
> websites, called the Daniel diet, after Daniel who refused Nebuchadnezzer's 
> rich palace food for legumes and who, with his friends, were healthier 
> after several months on them than the better fed.
>

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[RBW] Re: Racks: fork barrel eyelet vs. canti braze-on mounting question.

[Michael Hechmer]

I don't know which is stronger, but would assume the larger triangle.  I'm 
sure the canti mounts are strong enough.  I resisted the canti mounts for a 
long time, thinking it would make brake adjustment more difficult, but this 
does not turn out to be the case.  It may actually make the adjustment 
easier.  I have large hands and always find the  struts to the braze on 
(and the fenders) made it more difficult to get my hand in and release the 
straddle wire.  This seems like less of an issue with the brake mounts. 
 You will however need an adapter for the brake.  Paul's are specific, the 
rest generic.  Anyway both work fine.   Of course if you really going with 
a heavy duty rack and plan to load it up. you can do both!

Michael

On Saturday, November 8, 2014 1:10:38 AM UTC-5, lungimsam wrote:
>
> So, I have been looking at a lot of rack pics lately.
>
> I see some racks have the straight bolt that directly mounts to fork crown 
> hole. And it also has struts that mount directly to fork barrel braze ons. 
> NITTO Mini, for example.
> Looks like a 5 minute mounting job - must be a luxurious and satisfying 
> mount!
>
> But I also see some racks, that have struts that mount to the cantilever 
> brake braze on studs. Like the NITTO M12. More involved for sure.
>
> Which type of mounting method is stronger and more durable? To barrels, or 
> to canti-studs?
>

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[Ron Mc]

bad science has always made for entertaining reading

On Saturday, November 8, 2014 6:50:58 AM UTC-6, Garth wrote:
>
> Yes Patrick Moore ! 
> It is all rather silly .   All these "names" for diets . HaH !
>
> The funny thing about them all, is that once they are defined , they are 
> impossible to follow , as they create a prison within their own rules . 
>
> For every theory, there is another to refute it. For every refute, there 
> is a counter . It never ends .
>
> So to I, it's all false . Truth , real Truth to I , is irrefutable , 
> unchangeable and Eternally Good (and I do not mean this as a corporeal 
> perspective only).  And no man-made diet or way is any of those .  All 
> these false ways of eating or fasting are an attempt to Free themselves 
> from self begotten subjective woes of living , and the only true way to do 
> this , is to see clearly the falsity of self begotten woe itself .  That 
> food or conditions are never the matter, but the Spirit who is All , is the 
> only matter as without the Spirit of the man, there is no man . 
>
> The irony is , we're All Already Free !  So all these attempts to free 
> ourselves with this and that way of eating and doing all eventually fail 
> because there is no bondage to free oneself from !   
>
>
>
> On Friday, November 7, 2014 5:17:27 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> It's hard to get annoyed at people who discover a way of eating that 
>> makes them feel much better in many different ways, so I have no beef 
>> against the -- what do you call'ems, those who eschew starch and eat mostly 
>> protein and fat. My own take is that this is just one more example of how 
>> people thrive on so many different diets. The Inuit, of course, were 
>> traditionally notorious for living largely on meat, fat, and fish and, from 
>> what I've read, they were normally healthy. OTOH, Orthodox monks, who never 
>> eat meat, and eat dairy only on special occasions -- the very strict eat 
>> only vegetables, and oil only on non-strict-fast days -- are themselves 
>> notororious for living long and healthy lives, free in particular from the 
>> chronic ailments (almost wrote aliments) suffered by the old accustomed to 
>> what I think should be called the American commercial diet.  
>>
>> I was amused and annoyed to see that there is even a formal diet, with 
>> websites, called the Daniel diet, after Daniel who refused Nebuchadnezzer's 
>> rich palace food for legumes and who, with his friends, were healthier 
>> after several months on them than the better fed.
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Racks: fork barrel eyelet vs. canti braze-on mounting question.

[Anton Tutter]

I think practically, it makes no difference at all.  The amount of weight 
that a small front rack has to hold is not enough to test the limits of the 
strength of the two different triangulation geometries of the two mounting 
approaches.

Personally I think if the bike already has canti studs, the additional 
barrels just make the upper fork area look cluttered and are somewhat 
unnecessary.  On non-canti equipped bikes, the barrels make perfect sense. 
 However, on non-canti equipped bikes, the brake bolt hole is not available 
for a direct bolt-up because there is a caliper brake installed. On those 
bikes, the upper rack mount has to be a bracket or welded rack tang that 
bolts to the existing brake caliper bolt.

Anton


On Saturday, November 8, 2014 1:10:38 AM UTC-5, lungimsam wrote:
>
> So, I have been looking at a lot of rack pics lately.
>
> I see some racks have the straight bolt that directly mounts to fork crown 
> hole. And it also has struts that mount directly to fork barrel braze ons. 
> NITTO Mini, for example.
> Looks like a 5 minute mounting job - must be a luxurious and satisfying 
> mount!
>
> But I also see some racks, that have struts that mount to the cantilever 
> brake braze on studs. Like the NITTO M12. More involved for sure.
>
> Which type of mounting method is stronger and more durable? To barrels, or 
> to canti-studs?
>

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[RBW] Re: Racks: fork barrel eyelet vs. canti braze-on mounting question.

[Anton Tutter]

For anything more than a small handlebar rack (e.g., a large porteur rack), 
it makes better sense for the rack struts to extend down to the dropouts 
and attach to eyelets there.  Otherwise you have a large horizontal 
compressive force component on the rack struts if they are attached up 
high. This is why you don't see a lot of large porteur racks attached to 
mid-fork braze-ons.


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[Ron Mc]

what blows my mind is that nobody argues simply for a healthy attitude - 
don't graze on junk, which is the exact cause of American obesity (it's not 
an Illuminati plot). Everything is extreme, rather than balanced.  Point at 
everybody else and call them carb-mongers.  The Only Answer is Death to All 
Carbs - bollocks.  You got a tough row to hoe with the fiber is bad 
argument, especially with all my MD friends who daily eat their cereal 
religiously and blame it for their good health.  
My grilled salmon caesar was great last night.   
I also have the world's simplest relleno recipe - a can of lump crabmeat 
(not from China), skin two sticks of boudin, blend with grated white 
cheese, stuff in a pepper and roast (oven or sidebox smoker).  




On Saturday, November 8, 2014 7:29:55 AM UTC-6, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> bad science has always made for entertaining reading
>
> On Saturday, November 8, 2014 6:50:58 AM UTC-6, Garth wrote:
>>
>> Yes Patrick Moore ! 
>> It is all rather silly .   All these "names" for diets . HaH !
>>
>> The funny thing about them all, is that once they are defined , they are 
>> impossible to follow , as they create a prison within their own rules . 
>>
>> For every theory, there is another to refute it. For every refute, there 
>> is a counter . It never ends .
>>
>> So to I, it's all false . Truth , real Truth to I , is irrefutable , 
>> unchangeable and Eternally Good (and I do not mean this as a corporeal 
>> perspective only).  And no man-made diet or way is any of those .  All 
>> these false ways of eating or fasting are an attempt to Free themselves 
>> from self begotten subjective woes of living , and the only true way to do 
>> this , is to see clearly the falsity of self begotten woe itself .  That 
>> food or conditions are never the matter, but the Spirit who is All , is the 
>> only matter as without the Spirit of the man, there is no man . 
>>
>> The irony is , we're All Already Free !  So all these attempts to free 
>> ourselves with this and that way of eating and doing all eventually fail 
>> because there is no bondage to free oneself from !   
>>
>>
>>
>> On Friday, November 7, 2014 5:17:27 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
>>> It's hard to get annoyed at people who discover a way of eating that 
>>> makes them feel much better in many different ways, so I have no beef 
>>> against the -- what do you call'ems, those who eschew starch and eat mostly 
>>> protein and fat. My own take is that this is just one more example of how 
>>> people thrive on so many different diets. The Inuit, of course, were 
>>> traditionally notorious for living largely on meat, fat, and fish and, from 
>>> what I've read, they were normally healthy. OTOH, Orthodox monks, who never 
>>> eat meat, and eat dairy only on special occasions -- the very strict eat 
>>> only vegetables, and oil only on non-strict-fast days -- are themselves 
>>> notororious for living long and healthy lives, free in particular from the 
>>> chronic ailments (almost wrote aliments) suffered by the old accustomed to 
>>> what I think should be called the American commercial diet.  
>>>
>>> I was amused and annoyed to see that there is even a formal diet, with 
>>> websites, called the Daniel diet, after Daniel who refused Nebuchadnezzer's 
>>> rich palace food for legumes and who, with his friends, were healthier 
>>> after several months on them than the better fed.
>>>
>>

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[Ron Mc]

BTW, if you get rid of mega-food-industrial conspiracies, then no one is 
responsible for your state of health other than yourself.  

On Saturday, November 8, 2014 7:42:22 AM UTC-6, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> what blows my mind is that nobody argues simply for a healthy attitude - 
> don't graze on junk, which is the exact cause of American obesity (it's not 
> an Illuminati plot). Everything is extreme, rather than balanced.  Point at 
> everybody else and call them carb-mongers.  The Only Answer is Death to All 
> Carbs - bollocks.  You got a tough row to hoe with the fiber is bad 
> argument, especially with all my MD friends who daily eat their cereal 
> religiously and blame it for their good health.  
> My grilled salmon caesar was great last night.   
> I also have the world's simplest relleno recipe - a can of lump crabmeat 
> (not from China), skin two sticks of boudin, blend with grated white 
> cheese, stuff in a pepper and roast (oven or sidebox smoker).  
>
> 
>
>
> On Saturday, November 8, 2014 7:29:55 AM UTC-6, Ron Mc wrote:
>>
>> bad science has always made for entertaining reading
>>
>> On Saturday, November 8, 2014 6:50:58 AM UTC-6, Garth wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes Patrick Moore ! 
>>> It is all rather silly .   All these "names" for diets . HaH !
>>>
>>> The funny thing about them all, is that once they are defined , they are 
>>> impossible to follow , as they create a prison within their own rules . 
>>>
>>> For every theory, there is another to refute it. For every refute, there 
>>> is a counter . It never ends .
>>>
>>> So to I, it's all false . Truth , real Truth to I , is irrefutable , 
>>> unchangeable and Eternally Good (and I do not mean this as a corporeal 
>>> perspective only).  And no man-made diet or way is any of those .  All 
>>> these false ways of eating or fasting are an attempt to Free themselves 
>>> from self begotten subjective woes of living , and the only true way to do 
>>> this , is to see clearly the falsity of self begotten woe itself .  That 
>>> food or conditions are never the matter, but the Spirit who is All , is the 
>>> only matter as without the Spirit of the man, there is no man . 
>>>
>>> The irony is , we're All Already Free !  So all these attempts to free 
>>> ourselves with this and that way of eating and doing all eventually fail 
>>> because there is no bondage to free oneself from !   
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, November 7, 2014 5:17:27 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:

 It's hard to get annoyed at people who discover a way of eating that 
 makes them feel much better in many different ways, so I have no beef 
 against the -- what do you call'ems, those who eschew starch and eat 
 mostly 
 protein and fat. My own take is that this is just one more example of how 
 people thrive on so many different diets. The Inuit, of course, were 
 traditionally notorious for living largely on meat, fat, and fish and, 
 from 
 what I've read, they were normally healthy. OTOH, Orthodox monks, who 
 never 
 eat meat, and eat dairy only on special occasions -- the very strict eat 
 only vegetables, and oil only on non-strict-fast days -- are themselves 
 notororious for living long and healthy lives, free in particular from the 
 chronic ailments (almost wrote aliments) suffered by the old accustomed to 
 what I think should be called the American commercial diet.  

 I was amused and annoyed to see that there is even a formal diet, with 
 websites, called the Daniel diet, after Daniel who refused 
 Nebuchadnezzer's 
 rich palace food for legumes and who, with his friends, were healthier 
 after several months on them than the better fed.

>>>

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[Allingham II, Thomas J]

Rellenos Ron:

My favorite pic of the morning – that looks tasty!

Tom

From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ron Mc
Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2014 9:05 AM
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: OT (grant-related, not Riv-related): lo-carb, high fat & 
protein, ketosis, &c.

BTW, if you get rid of mega-food-industrial conspiracies, then no one is 
responsible for your state of health other than yourself.

On Saturday, November 8, 2014 7:42:22 AM UTC-6, Ron Mc wrote:
what blows my mind is that nobody argues simply for a healthy attitude - don't 
graze on junk, which is the exact cause of American obesity (it's not an 
Illuminati plot). Everything is extreme, rather than balanced.  Point at 
everybody else and call them carb-mongers.  The Only Answer is Death to All 
Carbs - bollocks.  You got a tough row to hoe with the fiber is bad argument, 
especially with all my MD friends who daily eat their cereal religiously and 
blame it for their good health.
My grilled salmon caesar was great last night.
I also have the world's simplest relleno recipe - a can of lump crabmeat (not 
from China), skin two sticks of boudin, blend with grated white cheese, stuff 
in a pepper and roast (oven or sidebox smoker).

[http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v728/bulldog1935/aP5040007.jpg]


On Saturday, November 8, 2014 7:29:55 AM UTC-6, Ron Mc wrote:
bad science has always made for entertaining reading

On Saturday, November 8, 2014 6:50:58 AM UTC-6, Garth wrote:
Yes Patrick Moore !
It is all rather silly .   All these "names" for diets . HaH !

The funny thing about them all, is that once they are defined , they are 
impossible to follow , as they create a prison within their own rules .

For every theory, there is another to refute it. For every refute, there is a 
counter . It never ends .

So to I, it's all false . Truth , real Truth to I , is irrefutable , 
unchangeable and Eternally Good (and I do not mean this as a corporeal 
perspective only).  And no man-made diet or way is any of those .  All these 
false ways of eating or fasting are an attempt to Free themselves from self 
begotten subjective woes of living , and the only true way to do this , is to 
see clearly the falsity of self begotten woe itself .  That food or conditions 
are never the matter, but the Spirit who is All , is the only matter as without 
the Spirit of the man, there is no man .

The irony is , we're All Already Free !  So all these attempts to free 
ourselves with this and that way of eating and doing all eventually fail 
because there is no bondage to free oneself from !



On Friday, November 7, 2014 5:17:27 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
It's hard to get annoyed at people who discover a way of eating that makes them 
feel much better in many different ways, so I have no beef against the -- what 
do you call'ems, those who eschew starch and eat mostly protein and fat. My own 
take is that this is just one more example of how people thrive on so many 
different diets. The Inuit, of course, were traditionally notorious for living 
largely on meat, fat, and fish and, from what I've read, they were normally 
healthy. OTOH, Orthodox monks, who never eat meat, and eat dairy only on 
special occasions -- the very strict eat only vegetables, and oil only on 
non-strict-fast days -- are themselves notororious for living long and healthy 
lives, free in particular from the chronic ailments (almost wrote aliments) 
suffered by the old accustomed to what I think should be called the American 
commercial diet.

I was amused and annoyed to see that there is even a formal diet, with 
websites, called the Daniel diet, after Daniel who refused Nebuchadnezzer's 
rich palace food for legumes and who, with his friends, were healthier after 
several months on them than the better fed.
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[Patrick Moore]

This is what I don't see. Corn came to North America even later than to
middle America, yet the better part of two whole continents built
flourishing civilizations on corn and a couple of other vegetables (those
were the dietary basis, though of course they ate other things. Much of the
rest of SA built theirs on potatoes. And per the "1491" theorists, who give
good evidence, these cultures were not far behind Europe in just their
material sophistication and population numbers.

When I say "built on corn" I mean just that. Corn was for the Hopi (I know
this second hand, since my brother is close to the Hopi) what an icon is to
the Orthodox, or perhaps even what icons and the Eucharist are to the
Orthodox.

You don't do that if your diet is making you chronically sick for hundreds
of years.

There are 24 Federally recognized tribes in NM; all of these (the Navajo by
trade) ate diets largely composed of maize.

On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 8:06 PM, Grant Petersen 
wrote: But carbs (in mass qty) came to Africans and Native Americans and
Mexicans and some others much later, and they have not had time to adapt.

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[Patrick Moore]

Because such things show ideological fervor and not scientific dispassion.

On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 11:25 PM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Thursday, November 6, 2014 12:35:19 PM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> Incidentally, remembering the story in Daniel about the captives turning
>> away the rich meats offered by the king and turning out healthier than
>> everyone else on a diet of legumes, I was amused and appalled to see that
>> even this has been turned into a theory and a diet.
>>
>>
>
>
>> Appalled?  Why would you be appalled?
>>
>
> Matt
>
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*
*[I]n exploring the physical universe man has made no attempt to explore
himself. Much of what goes by the name of pleasure is simply an effort to
destroy consciousness. If one started by asking, what is man? what are his
needs? how can he best express himself? one would discover that merely
having the power to avoid work and live one’s life from birth to death in
electric light and to the tune of tinned music is not a reason for doing
so.”*
*
  -- George Orwell, Pleasure Spots*

*Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not money,
I am become as a sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have
the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and
though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not
money, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and
though I give my body to be burned, and have not money, it profiteth me
nothing. Money suffereth long, and it is kind; money envieth not; money
vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, doth not behave unseemly, seeketh
not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; rejoiceth not in
iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; beareth all things, hopeth all
things, endureth all things. . . . And now abideth faith, hope, money,
these three; but the greatest of these is money. *
*
 -- George Orwell, Keep The Apidistra Flying*

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RE: [RBW] Re: Racks: fork barrel eyelet vs. canti braze-on mounting question.

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

I just recently mounted two racks (front and rear) to the canti studs on my 
Stumpjumper.  The mount seems extremely solid (but these are the Nitto Campee 
racks that mount at the dropouts and at the canti studs, the ones that have 
removable pannier racks, so I would expect the mount to be solid), but, boy, 
getting the racks mounted AND the brakes properly adjusted was a tedious job, 
and I certainly wouldn’t want to be engaging in incremental adjustment of the 
brakes hereafter.  Love the racks once they were finally in place, though.

From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anton Tutter
Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2014 8:32 AM
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] Re: Racks: fork barrel eyelet vs. canti braze-on mounting 
question.

I think practically, it makes no difference at all.  The amount of weight that 
a small front rack has to hold is not enough to test the limits of the strength 
of the two different triangulation geometries of the two mounting approaches.

Personally I think if the bike already has canti studs, the additional barrels 
just make the upper fork area look cluttered and are somewhat unnecessary.  On 
non-canti equipped bikes, the barrels make perfect sense.  However, on 
non-canti equipped bikes, the brake bolt hole is not available for a direct 
bolt-up because there is a caliper brake installed. On those bikes, the upper 
rack mount has to be a bracket or welded rack tang that bolts to the existing 
brake caliper bolt.

Anton


On Saturday, November 8, 2014 1:10:38 AM UTC-5, lungimsam wrote:
So, I have been looking at a lot of rack pics lately.

I see some racks have the straight bolt that directly mounts to fork crown 
hole. And it also has struts that mount directly to fork barrel braze ons. 
NITTO Mini, for example.
Looks like a 5 minute mounting job - must be a luxurious and satisfying mount!

But I also see some racks, that have struts that mount to the cantilever brake 
braze on studs. Like the NITTO M12. More involved for sure.

Which type of mounting method is stronger and more durable? To barrels, or to 
canti-studs?
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RE: [RBW] Re: Racks: fork barrel eyelet vs. canti braze-on mounting question.

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

Well, Michael Hechmer’s post suggests I may be incorrect about the difficulty 
of subsequent brake adjustments, and since I’m almost always inclined to 
believe the reality that is premised on my faulty bike mechanic skills, he’s 
probably right!

From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Allingham II, Thomas J
Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2014 9:51 AM
To: 'rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com'
Subject: RE: [RBW] Re: Racks: fork barrel eyelet vs. canti braze-on mounting 
question.

I just recently mounted two racks (front and rear) to the canti studs on my 
Stumpjumper.  The mount seems extremely solid (but these are the Nitto Campee 
racks that mount at the dropouts and at the canti studs, the ones that have 
removable pannier racks, so I would expect the mount to be solid), but, boy, 
getting the racks mounted AND the brakes properly adjusted was a tedious job, 
and I certainly wouldn’t want to be engaging in incremental adjustment of the 
brakes hereafter.  Love the racks once they were finally in place, though.

From: 
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Anton Tutter
Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2014 8:32 AM
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] Re: Racks: fork barrel eyelet vs. canti braze-on mounting 
question.

I think practically, it makes no difference at all.  The amount of weight that 
a small front rack has to hold is not enough to test the limits of the strength 
of the two different triangulation geometries of the two mounting approaches.

Personally I think if the bike already has canti studs, the additional barrels 
just make the upper fork area look cluttered and are somewhat unnecessary.  On 
non-canti equipped bikes, the barrels make perfect sense.  However, on 
non-canti equipped bikes, the brake bolt hole is not available for a direct 
bolt-up because there is a caliper brake installed. On those bikes, the upper 
rack mount has to be a bracket or welded rack tang that bolts to the existing 
brake caliper bolt.

Anton


On Saturday, November 8, 2014 1:10:38 AM UTC-5, lungimsam wrote:
So, I have been looking at a lot of rack pics lately.

I see some racks have the straight bolt that directly mounts to fork crown 
hole. And it also has struts that mount directly to fork barrel braze ons. 
NITTO Mini, for example.
Looks like a 5 minute mounting job - must be a luxurious and satisfying mount!

But I also see some racks, that have struts that mount to the cantilever brake 
braze on studs. Like the NITTO M12. More involved for sure.

Which type of mounting method is stronger and more durable? To barrels, or to 
canti-studs?
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Re: [RBW] Alternatives to MUSA pants and knickers?

[Kevin M]

The midweight Swrve pants are awesome, and they happen to be on sale right 
now!

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[RBW] Re: Hilsen Overhaul

[Paul G]

Nice! How do those Compass tires compare to the JB greens?

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[justinaugust]

1491 was an amazing read. 

-J

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[Aaron Young]

I'm not a nutritionist, but I do practice medicine if that counts for
anything.

In medicine when there is a disease that has many different possible
treatments it indicates we really don't have a good treatment yet, or we
don't understand the disease very well yet. I think this is why there are
so many conflicting thoughts on the "best" diet, and suggests that
nutrition is really complicated and we don't have a full understanding of
it yet. At least not in a way that we can recommend one diet for all people
on one hand, or specific, individualized diets on the other hand. If we
have figured out nutrition, then we would know it and there would be much
less controversy.

I don't know, but my guess is the answer lies in our individual genetics,
which can vary widely, so a one-size-fits-all approach will probably never
work. Perhaps in the future when we really figure out nutrition we will be
able to suggest a diet based on an individual's genome. Certainly there is
nothing wrong with trying different dietary approaches in the meantime.

Till then at least there is something we can all agree on: "Just Ride",
right? :)

Aaron "Please don't ever call me Dr. unless it's Dr. Squirrel" Young
The Dalles, OR

On Sat, Nov 8, 2014 at 06:45 Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Because such things show ideological fervor and not scientific dispassion.
>
> On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 11:25 PM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, November 6, 2014 12:35:19 PM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
>>> Incidentally, remembering the story in Daniel about the captives turning
>>> away the rich meats offered by the king and turning out healthier than
>>> everyone else on a diet of legumes, I was amused and appalled to see that
>>> even this has been turned into a theory and a diet.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>> Appalled?  Why would you be appalled?
>>>
>>
>> Matt
>>
>> --
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>
>
>
> --
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
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>
> *
> *[I]n exploring the physical universe man has made no attempt to explore
> himself. Much of what goes by the name of pleasure is simply an effort to
> destroy consciousness. If one started by asking, what is man? what are his
> needs? how can he best express himself? one would discover that merely
> having the power to avoid work and live one’s life from birth to death in
> electric light and to the tune of tinned music is not a reason for doing
> so.”*
> *
>   -- George Orwell, Pleasure Spots*
>
> *Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not money,
> I am become as a sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have
> the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and
> though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not
> money, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and
> though I give my body to be burned, and have not money, it profiteth me
> nothing. Money suffereth long, and it is kind; money envieth not; money
> vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, doth not behave unseemly, seeketh
> not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; rejoiceth not in
> iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; beareth all things, hopeth all
> things, endureth all things. . . . And now abideth faith, hope, money,
> these three; but the greatest of these is money. *
> *
>  -- George Orwell, Keep The Apidistra Flying*
>
> --
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[LeahFoy]

I, for one, am grateful Eat Bacon Don't Jog has been written. I happen to be 
one of those folks who simply cannot handle a high-carb diet. I come from a 
family with rampant diabetes - both types - and though I'm only 33 and NOT 
overweight, my lab results revealed prediabetes last month. Clearly, carbs 
affect me. The dr was concerned with the high cholesterol, (I have really high 
HDL AND elevated LDL) and started lecturing about fatty foods. New, 
high-quality research talks about high cholesterol as a direct result of high 
blood glucose - not fatty foods. I pointed that out, but he didn't seem to want 
to hear about THAT. He didn't even care about my on-the-edge A1C! I told him I 
would NOT be put on a statin and that I'm making some changes and he can 
re-evaluate in 3 months. I reject candy/baked goods/ sugar outright now, and I 
stick with high-fat foods instead. I don't worry about salt. I'm taking coconut 
oil in my coffee or out of the jar, and if I do decide to incorporate a small 
amount of rice or potato in a meal, I swallow 2 T diluted unfiltered, organic 
apple cider vinegar, which has a Metforamin-type effect on blood glucose. 
Ideally, I'd never consume these foods, but for now, I'm limiting them and 
using the cider vinegar. If that has to change in the future, I'm sure I'll get 
there. For now, all these other changes are about what I can handle.

My understanding of the corn issue is that corn today is not what it was "back 
then." Maybe that is an explanation for how early American cultures we able to 
sustain themselves on a high-corn diet. I don't know. Also, I do know that 
Egypt was one of the first, if not THE first civilization with a 
high-carb/grain diet and scientists have observed massive heart and vessel 
disease in them. Which, as we now know, high carbs = heart disease as well.

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[RBW] Re: Racks: fork barrel eyelet vs. canti braze-on mounting question.

[rcnute]

I have to partially dissent from my esteemed colleague Anton, having 
successfully used the mid-fork with a few porteur racks with moderate 
albeit not super heavy loads (a la the paper stacks of the original 
porteurs).

Ryan

On Saturday, November 8, 2014 5:34:29 AM UTC-8, Anton Tutter wrote:
>
> For anything more than a small handlebar rack (e.g., a large porteur 
> rack), it makes better sense for the rack struts to extend down to the 
> dropouts and attach to eyelets there.  Otherwise you have a large 
> horizontal compressive force component on the rack struts if they are 
> attached up high. This is why you don't see a lot of large porteur racks 
> attached to mid-fork braze-ons.
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Racks: fork barrel eyelet vs. canti braze-on mounting question.

[Anton Tutter]

We're mostly on the same page-- I agree the mid-fork attachment for a large 
rack can be OK, just not for really heavy loads.  That just wouldn't make 
engineering sense. But on the plus side, a rack with mid-fork attachment 
would not alter the compliance characteristics of the fork, whereas 
attachment at the dropouts would stiffen the fork.

Anton


On Saturday, November 8, 2014 11:47:40 AM UTC-5, rcnute wrote:
>
> I have to partially dissent from my esteemed colleague Anton, having 
> successfully used the mid-fork with a few porteur racks with moderate 
> albeit not super heavy loads (a la the paper stacks of the original 
> porteurs).
>
> Ryan
>
> On Saturday, November 8, 2014 5:34:29 AM UTC-8, Anton Tutter wrote:
>>
>> For anything more than a small handlebar rack (e.g., a large porteur 
>> rack), it makes better sense for the rack struts to extend down to the 
>> dropouts and attach to eyelets there.  Otherwise you have a large 
>> horizontal compressive force component on the rack struts if they are 
>> attached up high. This is why you don't see a lot of large porteur racks 
>> attached to mid-fork braze-ons.
>>
>>
>>

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[Ron Mc]

Leah, please don't be offended, but you started off with "high-carb diet". 
 I don't think high-anything diet can be good for anybody.  The only high 
thing that is good for any of us is high activity.  Like going for a bike 
ride.  I just got home from 30 miles and finished with that tough climb 
back into my neighborhood.  

On Saturday, November 8, 2014 10:36:32 AM UTC-6, LeahFoy wrote:
>
> I, for one, am grateful Eat Bacon Don't Jog has been written. I happen to 
> be one of those folks who simply cannot handle a high-carb diet. I come 
> from a family with rampant diabetes - both types - and though I'm only 33 
> and NOT overweight, my lab results revealed prediabetes last month. 
> Clearly, carbs affect me. The dr was concerned with the high cholesterol, 
> (I have really high HDL AND elevated LDL) and started lecturing about fatty 
> foods. New, high-quality research talks about high cholesterol as a direct 
> result of high blood glucose - not fatty foods. I pointed that out, but he 
> didn't seem to want to hear about THAT. He didn't even care about my 
> on-the-edge A1C! I told him I would NOT be put on a statin and that I'm 
> making some changes and he can re-evaluate in 3 months. I reject 
> candy/baked goods/ sugar outright now, and I stick with high-fat foods 
> instead. I don't worry about salt. I'm taking coconut oil in my coffee or 
> out of the jar, and if I do decide to incorporate a small amount of rice or 
> potato in a meal, I swallow 2 T diluted unfiltered, organic apple cider 
> vinegar, which has a Metforamin-type effect on blood glucose. Ideally, I'd 
> never consume these foods, but for now, I'm limiting them and using the 
> cider vinegar. If that has to change in the future, I'm sure I'll get 
> there. For now, all these other changes are about what I can handle. 
>
> My understanding of the corn issue is that corn today is not what it was 
> "back then." Maybe that is an explanation for how early American cultures 
> we able to sustain themselves on a high-corn diet. I don't know. Also, I do 
> know that Egypt was one of the first, if not THE first civilization with a 
> high-carb/grain diet and scientists have observed massive heart and vessel 
> disease in them. Which, as we now know, high carbs = heart disease as well.

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[LeahFoy]

Ron, I'm not offended. High carb diet is what we have in the USofA and that is 
what I'm referring to. Doctors have been saying the high-carb diet is great - 
been saying it for decades, and we see that it is not. Low-fat, lots of grains, 
low-fat pasta and rice, it's all been touted as superior to saturated fat. I 
hold a bachelor's of science in nursing, and am a registered nurse and that is 
very much what was pushed. (I've since hung up my stethescope in favor of 
raising kiddos, but I doubt this has drastically changed.)

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[Ron Mc]

ok - thanks

On Saturday, November 8, 2014 11:07:10 AM UTC-6, LeahFoy wrote:
>
> Ron, I'm not offended. High carb diet is what we have in the USofA and 
> that is what I'm referring to. Doctors have been saying the high-carb diet 
> is great - been saying it for decades, and we see that it is not. Low-fat, 
> lots of grains, low-fat pasta and rice, it's all been touted as superior to 
> saturated fat. I hold a bachelor's of science in nursing, and am a 
> registered nurse and that is very much what was pushed. (I've since hung up 
> my stethescope in favor of raising kiddos, but I doubt this has drastically 
> changed.)

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['hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch]

There is plenty of science to back up the Daniel Diet.  I think you take 
issue because a group of people got their diet's name and inspiration from 
the Bible.  I doubt you are appalled by the names of diets derived from 
non-Christian entities  (ex. Paleo).  What if they got their name and 
inspiration from the Navajo Indians? Would you be appalled?  I seriously 
doubt it.

Matt

On Saturday, November 8, 2014 6:45:05 AM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Because such things show ideological fervor and not scientific dispassion.
>
> On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 11:25 PM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, November 6, 2014 12:35:19 PM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
>>> Incidentally, remembering the story in Daniel about the captives turning 
>>> away the rich meats offered by the king and turning out healthier than 
>>> everyone else on a diet of legumes, I was amused and appalled to see that 
>>> even this has been turned into a theory and a diet.
>>>
>>>
>>  
>>
>>> Appalled?  Why would you be appalled?
>>>
>>
>> Matt 
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
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> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
>
> *
> *[I]n exploring the physical universe man has made no attempt to explore 
> himself. Much of what goes by the name of pleasure is simply an effort to 
> destroy consciousness. If one started by asking, what is man? what are his 
> needs? how can he best express himself? one would discover that merely 
> having the power to avoid work and live one’s life from birth to death in 
> electric light and to the tune of tinned music is not a reason for doing 
> so.”*
> *  
>   -- George Orwell, Pleasure Spots*
>
> *Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not money, 
> I am become as a sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have 
> the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and 
> though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not 
> money, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and 
> though I give my body to be burned, and have not money, it profiteth me 
> nothing. Money suffereth long, and it is kind; money envieth not; money 
> vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, doth not behave unseemly, seeketh 
> not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; rejoiceth not in 
> iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; beareth all things, hopeth all 
> things, endureth all things. . . . And now abideth faith, hope, money, 
> these three; but the greatest of these is money. *
> *  
>  -- George Orwell, Keep The Apidistra Flying*
>  

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[RBW] FS: 66cm orange Rambouillet F/F/HS

[Kieran J]

Hi Folks,

I have a Rivendell Rambouillet frameset I'm getting ready to re-home. The 
plan is to move up one size to a 68cm. 

About this one:

   - Orange.
   - It’s what Riv called a "66", so it’s: 
  - 64cm ST, C-C 
  - 60cm TT
  - 92.5cm standover with 33.3 Jack Browns. 
   - The JBs are the ideal 700c tire for this frame. Nice comfortable 
   amount of clearance, but not much more.
   - Other wheel options are 700x28/fenders or 650bx42 Hetres/fenders!
   - Comes with original and still-smooth Ultegra headset installed. 
   - Paint is OK; lots of nicks and chips, but looks fairly presentable. No 
   dents and everything is straight.
   - There is some evidence of surface rust inside the tubes. Would be a 
   good candidate for a renovation or a commuter. 
   - I will include a new set of Rambouillet decals obtained from Riv, in 
   case the prospective new owner does a respray.

Here's a picture of the bike built up. I'd be happy to send along more 
detailed photos to anyone seriously interested.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/70712473@N05/13972946383/

I'm looking for $575 + shipping. I should be in the States in the next 
couple of weeks to pick up Mr. 68cm, so I could conceivable ship this out 
from there to save $$.

Thanks!

Kieran 
Toronto, Canada

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[Eric Norris]

There are many plants that have naturally developed toxins so that insects 
won’t eat them. A plant “that even a bug has the sense not to eat” isn’t 
necessarily bad. 

—Eric “Not Genetically Modified” N

P.S. Many insects have themselves developed toxins that make them unpalatable 
to other insects. Monarch butterfly, for example. 

> On Nov 7, 2014, at 10:07 PM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Friday, November 7, 2014 6:09:30 AM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote:
> The grain of today is not the grain of Jesus or Joseph. It has been 
> selectively bread to withstand bugs and blights and climates, which means 
> more grows for the same effort, at the price of anti-nutrients that can wreak 
> havoc on health. 
> 
> And to take this a step further what about Genetically Modified Organisms 
> (GMO)?  Sure, this can help to avoid pesticides, but why should I eat grains 
> that even a bug has the sense to NOT eat?  I am in no way a Paleo (or 
> whatever they call themselves) but this bothers me to no end. 
> 
> Matt 
> 
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Re: [RBW] FS: New Sackville, New Brooks, New NITTO rack

[David Hays]

Seat still available?
David


> On Nov 8, 2014, at 12:57 AM, lungimsam  wrote:
> 
> New Brooks B17 Imperial - Honey
> Briefly mounted on my new Rivendell and then removed after a couple test 
> rides in nice weather. Less than 30 miles on it I would guess.
> It is a beautiful saddle. Feels great,  but I just like the cush of sprung 
> saddles better. No clamp marks on rails. Saddle looks brand new because it is 
> except for the brief test rides.
> 109$ shipped anywhere in the continental USA.
> Pics:  https://www.flickr.com/photos/70237737@N00/sets/72157648756456368/ 
> 
> 
> New Sackville Bar Sack
> Bought it a few weeks ago and briefly mounted on my new Rivendell and then 
> removed after a few rides in nice weather. Less than 75 miles on it, I would 
> guess.
> Gorgeous, high quality bag, still smells new. Very impressive quality. The 
> magnet closure is fantastic. 159$ shipped anywhere in the continental USA.
> 
> New NITTO F-15 rack for Bar Sack
> Bought it a few weeks ago with the above bag and briefly mounted on my new 
> Rivendell and then removed after a couple test rides in nice weather. Less 
> than 75 miles on it I would guess.
> Beautiful rack. Beautiful finish. 59$ shipped anywhere in the continental USA.
> 
> Decided to go with a front-racked bag, instead of a handlebar mounted bag, so 
> that is why I am selling the bag and rack.
> 
> Pics of bag and rack to come. Or I can email you some.
> Paypal only please.
> 
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Re: [RBW] WTB Nitto Campee front rack

[Kendallspower]

Hmmm. I want one for the wifes Betty. You think the 26" is better?

On Friday, November 7, 2014 2:20:20 PM UTC-8, Tim Gavin wrote:
>
> As far as I understand, they come in two sizes:  a 700 / 650 sized one 
> that you pictured (with angled mounts), and a 26" version (with straight 
> mounts, presumably to attach to the front of the fork).
>
> Best of luck,
> Tim
>
> On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 7:54 PM, Kendallspower  > wrote:
>
>> Looking for both 650 & 700 sizes. Missing panniers okay.
>>
>> Thank you
>>
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>
>

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[RBW] Re: Hilsen Overhaul

[GAJett]

Those are some pretty impressive breaks!
Took a look at the Gevenalle front.  It only has a 14-tooth capacity.  My 
old Superbe had 18, so works perfectly well on the current 17-tooth jump.  
On the old Raleigh, with the 23-tooth jump, it worked perfectly well as 
long as I didn't use the bottom 2 or 3 rear cogs.  On those small cogs the 
chain bottomed out on the cross-piece at the back of the cage.  I never 
went there anyway as the gear-train was selected so that those few gears on 
the 26-tooth cw were available on the 44 with the larger rear cogs.

The Gevenalle DOES look bomb-proof, but you may be limited on the use of 
your smallest rear cogs.
Cheers.

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[Philip Williamson]

Humans, like bears, pigs, and rats, are omnivores. 
"A true carnivore cannot move its jaw from side to side to grind its food."
There are monogastric herbivores, like horses and rabbits. Using cows' guts to 
prove humans must be carnivores is rhetoric, not science.
http://www.saylor.org/site/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/BIO309-OC-3.8.1-Comparison-of-Digestive-Systems-FINAL.pdf

Philip
www.biketinker.com

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[RBW] Re: Racks: fork barrel eyelet vs. canti braze-on mounting question.

[Ron Mc]

I think you have more variability in aligning the tilt of the rack with a 
Mark's rack which uses the nitto rod bolts.  With the Mini rack, if you 
need to change the tilt you end up with, you have to bend something in the 
rack.  
If you may move the rack later, I think the Mark's rack will also give you 
options on a different bike.  

On Saturday, November 8, 2014 12:10:38 AM UTC-6, lungimsam wrote:
>
> So, I have been looking at a lot of rack pics lately.
>
> I see some racks have the straight bolt that directly mounts to fork crown 
> hole. And it also has struts that mount directly to fork barrel braze ons. 
> NITTO Mini, for example.
> Looks like a 5 minute mounting job - must be a luxurious and satisfying 
> mount!
>
> But I also see some racks, that have struts that mount to the cantilever 
> brake braze on studs. Like the NITTO M12. More involved for sure.
>
> Which type of mounting method is stronger and more durable? To barrels, or 
> to canti-studs?
>

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['hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch]

That is true Eric but you are comparing apples to oranges.  I was referring 
to GMO.  A GMO or genetically modified organism is created by merging the 
DNA from different species to create an organism; plant, animal, bacteria 
or virus which cannot be produced in nature or through traditional 
crossbreeding.

Matt

On Saturday, November 8, 2014 11:06:29 AM UTC-8, Eric Norris wrote:
>
> There are many plants that have naturally developed toxins so that insects 
> won’t eat them. A plant “that even a bug has the sense not to eat” isn’t 
> necessarily bad. 
>
> —Eric “Not Genetically Modified” N
>
> P.S. Many insects have themselves developed toxins that make them 
> unpalatable to other insects. Monarch butterfly, for example. 
>
> On Nov 7, 2014, at 10:07 PM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com > wrote:
>
>
>
> On Friday, November 7, 2014 6:09:30 AM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>
>> The grain of today is not the grain of Jesus or Joseph. It has been 
>> selectively bread to withstand bugs and blights and climates, which means 
>> more grows for the same effort, at the price of anti-nutrients that can 
>> wreak havoc on health. 
>>
>
> And to take this a step further what about Genetically Modified Organisms 
> (GMO)?  Sure, this can help to avoid pesticides, but why should I eat 
> grains that even a bug has the sense to NOT eat?  I am in no way a Paleo 
> (or whatever they call themselves) but this bothers me to no end. 
>
> Matt 
>
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>
>

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[RBW] Are P clamps supposed to do this?

[lungimsam]

Front rack feels rock solid when pulling on the rack.

But if I grab the rubber p clamps themselves, I can sorta slide them a bit 
a few mm's. Is this just how P clamps are supposed to be?

Bolts are totally snugged up and forks under p clamps are lined with 
bartape.


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[RBW] Re: FS: New Sackville, New Brooks, New NITTO rack

[lungimsam]

Yes it is still available! I just send you a private response.

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[RBW] Re: Polling what's the best 650b touring tire?

[Marc Irwin]

I like the Soma Express at 38mm.  It's the Pasela tread with beefed up 
sidewalls for city riding.  They've treated me well the past few years.

Marc

On Monday, October 27, 2014 4:58:49 PM UTC-4, Mike Schiller wrote:
>
> Panaracer is coming out with a 650B x 42mm version of the Pasela in 2015. 
>  In both TG and non TG.  Should be a good touring choice at under 500 gms.
>
> ~mike
> Carlsbad Ca.
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Racks: fork barrel eyelet vs. canti braze-on mounting question.

[Michael Hechmer]

I'm curious.  Which brakes?  What was the problem and how did the rack 
figure into all of that?  And how much prior experience do you have 
adjusting these brakes?  You suggest learning as a solution, lets see if we 
can narrow that down a bit.

Michael

On Saturday, November 8, 2014 10:10:03 AM UTC-5, Pudge wrote:
>
>  Well, Michael Hechmer’s post suggests I may be incorrect about the 
> difficulty of subsequent brake adjustments, and since I’m almost always 
> inclined to believe the reality that is premised on my faulty bike mechanic 
> skills, he’s probably right!
>
>  
>  
> *From:* rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com  [mailto:
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com ] *On Behalf Of *Allingham II, 
> Thomas J
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 08, 2014 9:51 AM
> *To:* 'rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com '
> *Subject:* RE: [RBW] Re: Racks: fork barrel eyelet vs. canti braze-on 
> mounting question.
>  
>  
>
> I just recently mounted two racks (front and rear) to the canti studs on 
> my Stumpjumper.  The mount seems extremely solid (but these are the Nitto 
> Campee racks that mount at the dropouts and at the canti studs, the ones 
> that have removable pannier racks, so I would expect the mount to be 
> solid), but, boy, getting the racks mounted AND the brakes properly 
> adjusted was a tedious job, and I certainly wouldn’t want to be engaging in 
> incremental adjustment of the brakes hereafter.  Love the racks once they 
> were finally in place, though.
>
>  
>
> *From:* rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com  [
> mailto:rbw-...@googlegroups.com ] *On Behalf Of *Anton Tutter
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 08, 2014 8:32 AM
> *To:* rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com 
> *Subject:* [RBW] Re: Racks: fork barrel eyelet vs. canti braze-on 
> mounting question.
>
>  
>  
> I think practically, it makes no difference at all.  The amount of weight 
> that a small front rack has to hold is not enough to test the limits of the 
> strength of the two different triangulation geometries of the two mounting 
> approaches.
>  
>  
>  
> Personally I think if the bike already has canti studs, the additional 
> barrels just make the upper fork area look cluttered and are somewhat 
> unnecessary.  On non-canti equipped bikes, the barrels make perfect sense. 
>  However, on non-canti equipped bikes, the brake bolt hole is not available 
> for a direct bolt-up because there is a caliper brake installed. On those 
> bikes, the upper rack mount has to be a bracket or welded rack tang that 
> bolts to the existing brake caliper bolt.
>  
>  
>  
> Anton
>  
>
>
> On Saturday, November 8, 2014 1:10:38 AM UTC-5, lungimsam wrote:
>  
> So, I have been looking at a lot of rack pics lately.
>  
>  
>  
> I see some racks have the straight bolt that directly mounts to fork crown 
> hole. And it also has struts that mount directly to fork barrel braze ons. 
> NITTO Mini, for example.
>  
> Looks like a 5 minute mounting job - must be a luxurious and satisfying 
> mount!
>  
>  
>  
> But I also see some racks, that have struts that mount to the cantilever 
> brake braze on studs. Like the NITTO M12. More involved for sure.
>  
>  
>  
> Which type of mounting method is stronger and more durable? To barrels, or 
> to canti-studs?
>   
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[RBW] Re: Are P clamps supposed to do this?

[hsmitham]

Perhaps the bar tape is too slick and allowing the P-Clamp to slide. If I'm 
not mistaken they are designed to have the rubber make direct contact with 
the fork. Or maybe you used the wrong size? An image would help.

~Hugh
Los Angeles, CA

On Saturday, November 8, 2014 12:46:29 PM UTC-8, lungimsam wrote:
>
> Front rack feels rock solid when pulling on the rack.
>
> But if I grab the rubber p clamps themselves, I can sorta slide them a bit 
> a few mm's. Is this just how P clamps are supposed to be?
>
> Bolts are totally snugged up and forks under p clamps are lined with 
> bartape.
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Polling what's the best 650b touring tire?

[Coconutbill]

I'm pretty happy with the Panaracer Col de la Vie . I haven't taken a 
caliper to them. no lumps. no problems seating them on my Synergy/Dyad 
rims.  I haven't tried them under a touring load, though.

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Re: [RBW] WTB Nitto Campee front rack

[Tim Gavin]

Does her Betty Foy have eyelets on the front and back of the fork dropouts
?
If so, then the 26" version
 would
work fine on the front eyelets, and the 700c version
 would
work fine on the rear.  I don't know what the difference it the platform
height may be.

I have a 26" version of the Campee Classic, mounted with tubus stay clamps
and fork clamps

on my girlfriend's San Marcos.  It's a very, very, very nice rack.  The
panniers carry the weight 
nice and low and makes the whole front end quite stable, totally unlike how
a high-mounted front load makes the front end flop.  Without the panniers,
it is a very attractive rack with a vintage french Randonneur style.

If you just want that style without the panniers, the VO Constructeur

is not a bad choice.  In fact, I had one on her San Marcos before I
equipped it with the Campee Classic.  It was used as a support for a front
basket
.
She prefers how the bike handles with the weight down low on the panniers.

The VO has some cons:  1) it mounts with a fork daruma, though you may be
able to bend the tang up to the brake bolt. 2) it works best when mounted
to the front eyelet, otherwise the platform is forward of level. 3) it's
not as beautiful up close as the Nitto; the welds are visible instead of
Nitto's perfect fillets.

But it's only $100.

Another option is the Soma Champs Elyssees
 rack for $120.  It can mount to
either the axle or the front eyelet, and it mounts with a tang to the brake
bolt instead of a daruma.  I have no experience with it but it looks decent.

Or, Bruce Gordon or many other US frame builders could custom up exactly
what you'd like, for about the price of the Nitto Campee Classic.

Cheers,
Tim

On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 8:31 PM, Kendallspower 
wrote:

> Hmmm. I want one for the wifes Betty. You think the 26" is better?
>
> On Friday, November 7, 2014 2:20:20 PM UTC-8, Tim Gavin wrote:
>>
>> As far as I understand, they come in two sizes:  a 700 / 650 sized one
>> that you pictured (with angled mounts), and a 26" version (with straight
>> mounts, presumably to attach to the front of the fork).
>>
>> Best of luck,
>> Tim
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 7:54 PM, Kendallspower 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Looking for both 650 & 700 sizes. Missing panniers okay.
>>>
>>> Thank you
>>>
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[Eric Norris]

True, but simply saying that we shouldn't eat any plant (grain) that an insect 
won't eat is a much broader statement, and covers plants with naturally 
occurring defenses. 

Eric N
www.CampyOnly.com
CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com
Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy

> On Nov 8, 2014, at 12:28 PM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch 
>  wrote:
> 
> That is true Eric but you are comparing apples to oranges.  I was referring 
> to GMO.  A GMO or genetically modified organism is created by merging the DNA 
> from different species to create an organism; plant, animal, bacteria or 
> virus which cannot be produced in nature or through traditional crossbreeding.
> 
> Matt
> 
>> On Saturday, November 8, 2014 11:06:29 AM UTC-8, Eric Norris wrote:
>> There are many plants that have naturally developed toxins so that insects 
>> won’t eat them. A plant “that even a bug has the sense not to eat” isn’t 
>> necessarily bad. 
>> 
>> —Eric “Not Genetically Modified” N
>> 
>> P.S. Many insects have themselves developed toxins that make them 
>> unpalatable to other insects. Monarch butterfly, for example. 
>> 
>>> On Nov 7, 2014, at 10:07 PM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Friday, November 7, 2014 6:09:30 AM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote:
 The grain of today is not the grain of Jesus or Joseph. It has been 
 selectively bread to withstand bugs and blights and climates, which means 
 more grows for the same effort, at the price of anti-nutrients that can 
 wreak havoc on health.
>>> 
>>> And to take this a step further what about Genetically Modified Organisms 
>>> (GMO)?  Sure, this can help to avoid pesticides, but why should I eat 
>>> grains that even a bug has the sense to NOT eat?  I am in no way a Paleo 
>>> (or whatever they call themselves) but this bothers me to no end. 
>>> 
>>> Matt 
>>> 
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[Patrick Moore]

OK, perhaps I will retract the "annoyed" and leave only the "amused". For
the record, I am a practicing Orthodox Christian and I am quite ready to
believe Daniel -- that is, to believe that the book, Daniel, accurately
relates what happened to the prophet, Daniel. I just find the "gee whiz!!!"
factor on the websites that popped up first when I googled "Daniel" and
"diet", hoping to get the scriptural reference -- well, again, let's just
say I find them amusing.

No, I do not take offense because the putative source is the Bible. Please,
*please* believe me when I tell you that I am *not* a conventional liberal!

On Sat, Nov 8, 2014 at 10:31 AM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> There is plenty of science to back up the Daniel Diet.  I think you take
> issue because a group of people got their diet's name and inspiration from
> the Bible.  I doubt you are appalled by the names of diets derived from
> non-Christian entities  (ex. Paleo).  What if they got their name and
> inspiration from the Navajo Indians? Would you be appalled?  I seriously
> doubt it.
>
> Matt
>
> On Saturday, November 8, 2014 6:45:05 AM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> Because such things show ideological fervor and not scientific dispassion.
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 11:25 PM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, November 6, 2014 12:35:19 PM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:

 Incidentally, remembering the story in Daniel about the captives
 turning away the rich meats offered by the king and turning out healthier
 than everyone else on a diet of legumes, I was amused and appalled to see
 that even this has been turned into a theory and a diet.


>>>
>>>
 Appalled?  Why would you be appalled?

>>>
>>> Matt
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
>> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
>> Other professional writing services.
>> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
>> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
>>
>> *
>> *[I]n exploring the physical universe man has made no attempt to explore
>> himself. Much of what goes by the name of pleasure is simply an effort to
>> destroy consciousness. If one started by asking, what is man? what are his
>> needs? how can he best express himself? one would discover that merely
>> having the power to avoid work and live one’s life from birth to death in
>> electric light and to the tune of tinned music is not a reason for doing
>> so.”*
>> *
>> -- George Orwell, Pleasure Spots*
>>
>> *Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not
>> money, I am become as a sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I
>> have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge;
>> and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not
>> money, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and
>> though I give my body to be burned, and have not money, it profiteth me
>> nothing. Money suffereth long, and it is kind; money envieth not; money
>> vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, doth not behave unseemly, seeketh
>> not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; rejoiceth not in
>> iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; beareth all things, hopeth all
>> things, endureth all things. . . . And now abideth faith, hope, money,
>> these three; but the greatest of these is money. *
>> *
>>-- George Orwell, Keep The Apidistra Flying*
>>
>  --
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*
*[I]n exploring the physical universe man has made

Re: [RBW] Re: Racks: fork barrel eyelet vs. canti braze-on mounting question.

[Tim Gavin]

I picked up a Nitto M12 for my KOM (which has no other eyelets besides
crown hole and canti), and I'm really satisfied with it.  It came with
the canti
bolts  included, and they keep
the brake bolt tension separate from the rack mount.  It mounted very
easily, and it's quite shiny.  It holds a small TrunkSack
 perfectly.

The M12 is a great rack for a canti-brake equipped bike.  I got it here
 for $82, when it was in
stock a couple months ago.

However, the small TrunkSack is too darned small for me.  It's great for a
tool kit, flat kit, and tube, plus your phone, wallet, and a couple
snacks.  That's it.  That kind of load is usually easy to stash somewhere
else, like a saddle wedge.  But it's very cute!

Of course, the M12 (or Mark's, Mini, Campee, Big Front, etc...) would also
work great to support a handlebar/decaleur bag.  Or, to mount a medium Wald
(what mine will carry soon instead of the small TrunkSack).

Cheers,
Tim

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[Patrick Moore]

True omnivores find a Moscow Mule, made with good vodka and real ginger
beer, a Very Good Thing after a nice bosque ride on the Fargo. (Even if
they are Orthodox Christians.)

(Mblmblmblmbl, Amen.)

On Sat, Nov 8, 2014 at 1:04 PM, Philip Williamson <
philip.william...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Humans, like bears, pigs, and rats, are omnivores.
> "A true carnivore cannot move its jaw from side to side to grind its food."
> There are monogastric herbivores, like horses and rabbits. Using cows'
> guts to prove humans must be carnivores is rhetoric, not science.
>
> http://www.saylor.org/site/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/BIO309-OC-3.8.1-Comparison-of-Digestive-Systems-FINAL.pdf
>
> Philip
> www.biketinker.com
>
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*
*[I]n exploring the physical universe man has made no attempt to explore
himself. Much of what goes by the name of pleasure is simply an effort to
destroy consciousness. If one started by asking, what is man? what are his
needs? how can he best express himself? one would discover that merely
having the power to avoid work and live one’s life from birth to death in
electric light and to the tune of tinned music is not a reason for doing
so.”*
*
  -- George Orwell, Pleasure Spots*

*Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not money,
I am become as a sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have
the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and
though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not
money, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and
though I give my body to be burned, and have not money, it profiteth me
nothing. Money suffereth long, and it is kind; money envieth not; money
vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, doth not behave unseemly, seeketh
not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; rejoiceth not in
iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; beareth all things, hopeth all
things, endureth all things. . . . And now abideth faith, hope, money,
these three; but the greatest of these is money. *
*
 -- George Orwell, Keep The Apidistra Flying*

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Re: [RBW] WTB Nitto Campee front rack

[Dan McNamara]

There is (or was) a 650B version available. Might be one still in stock 
somewhere. Straight mount at dropouts but more clearance than the 26" version. 
I did a bent strut hack to mount at the mid-fork braze-ons instead of canti 
posts. Works great. 

Dan




> On Nov 7, 2014, at 2:20 PM, Tim Gavin  wrote:
> 
> As far as I understand, they come in two sizes:  a 700 / 650 sized one that 
> you pictured (with angled mounts), and a 26" version (with straight mounts, 
> presumably to attach to the front of the fork).
> 
> Best of luck,
> Tim
> 
>> On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 7:54 PM, Kendallspower  wrote:
>> Looking for both 650 & 700 sizes. Missing panniers okay.
>> 
>> Thank you
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['hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I didn't say that.  I was specifically referring to GMO's.  At least I 
thought I was.  Oh well ... lets move on.

Matt


On Saturday, November 8, 2014 2:20:22 PM UTC-8, Eric Norris wrote:
>
> True, but simply saying that we shouldn't eat any plant (grain) that an 
> insect won't eat is a much broader statement, and covers plants with 
> naturally occurring defenses. 
>
> Eric N
> www.CampyOnly.com
> CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com
> Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy
>
> On Nov 8, 2014, at 12:28 PM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com > wrote:
>
> That is true Eric but you are comparing apples to oranges.  I was 
> referring to GMO.  A GMO or genetically modified organism is created by 
> merging the DNA from different species to create an organism; plant, 
> animal, bacteria or virus which cannot be produced in nature or through 
> traditional crossbreeding.
>
> Matt
>
> On Saturday, November 8, 2014 11:06:29 AM UTC-8, Eric Norris wrote:
>>
>> There are many plants that have naturally developed toxins so that 
>> insects won’t eat them. A plant “that even a bug has the sense not to eat” 
>> isn’t necessarily bad. 
>>
>> —Eric “Not Genetically Modified” N
>>
>> P.S. Many insects have themselves developed toxins that make them 
>> unpalatable to other insects. Monarch butterfly, for example. 
>>
>> On Nov 7, 2014, at 10:07 PM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Friday, November 7, 2014 6:09:30 AM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>>
>>> The grain of today is not the grain of Jesus or Joseph. It has been 
>>> selectively bread to withstand bugs and blights and climates, which means 
>>> more grows for the same effort, at the price of anti-nutrients that can 
>>> wreak havoc on health. 
>>>
>>
>> And to take this a step further what about Genetically Modified Organisms 
>> (GMO)?  Sure, this can help to avoid pesticides, but why should I eat 
>> grains that even a bug has the sense to NOT eat?  I am in no way a Paleo 
>> (or whatever they call themselves) but this bothers me to no end. 
>>
>> Matt 
>>
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[RBW] Re: FS: New Sackville, New Brooks, New NITTO rack

[lungimsam]

Saddle is sold. Thanks!

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Re: [RBW] Alternatives to MUSA pants and knickers?

[rperks]

In the last 8 months I have made the move to Swrve pants/shorts/knickers 
almost every day.  I have one pair of regular jeans that have not worn out 
yet, but will be done soon.  In the last year or so, the cut on the product 
has gotten a little more generous.  Also, do like they say and measure your 
favorite pants to determine waist size.  They do not do vanity sizing, and 
I had to come to terms with the fact that I am a 38 now.  Not skinny by any 
means, but wear a 38 regular, and they are perfect for me.

Rob

On Saturday, November 8, 2014 7:20:57 AM UTC-8, Kevin M wrote:
>
> The midweight Swrve pants are awesome, and they happen to be on sale right 
> now!
>

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[Eric Norris]

What? It’s just getting fun.

—Eric “Half Gallon of Organic Milk in the Fridge” N

> On Nov 8, 2014, at 3:03 PM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch 
>  wrote:
> 
> Oh well ... lets move on.

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[RBW] Re: Bike Industry Controlled by Grant Petersen

[Noah Deuce]

Sorry to Grant for misspelling his last name (if I were better at this 
google groups stuff I'd change the title at the top)!  And thanks for 
giving us the opportunity to buy more versatile bikes.

As to Mike's point about the midwest gravel races being "racy," well, yes 
and no.  I did Dirty Kanza on my A. Homer Hilsen two years ago...and 
finished in 20 hours.  I was "racing" myself, completing a personal 
challenge.  I think anyone who's out there in Emporia or the various other 
midwestern (or western) spots and isn't expecting to be in the top 
50...they're doing the same sort of thing.

I recently sold my mountain-ish bike because I found I didn't like hitting 
single track (including driving to the trailhead).  But I love riding the 
backroads and gravel tracks (and even some mountain biking trails, oddly) 
that I can reach right from my door.

On Wednesday, November 5, 2014 10:21:18 AM UTC-7, Noah Deuce wrote:
>
> Hyperbole, sure, but the drum GP has been beating for decades (better tire 
> clearance, too much emphasis on racing, etc.) has finally turned into a 
> product "category" that may save the industry from itself. 
>
> Just see the latest by Guitar Ted: 
> http://www.gravelgrindernews.com/less-about-the-rock-and-more-about-the-roll/
>

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[RBW] Polling what's the best 650b touring tire?

[WETH]

If it is not thread hijacking, anyone have experience with both Nifftyswifty 
and Soma New Xpress 650b tires and willing to share thoughts on how they 
compare?
Hugh, apologies if this pulls too far away from your original question.
-Erl

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[RBW] Re: Wheel Stabilizer or no?

['hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Cecily, 

A possible solution could be the Mark's Hub Area Rack.  Due to it's lower 
center of gravity I'd think it would have less flop.  That combined with a 
double legged kick stand should almost guarantee a solution.   But hey  
...  no guarantees :>)

Matt

On Friday, October 31, 2014 5:25:43 PM UTC-7, Cecily Walker wrote:
>
> Since putting a Mark's Rack and a basket on the front of my Betty Foy, my 
> front handlebars flop most prodigiously (and annoyingly) when there's 
> anything in the basket. I'm writing to get you folks' opinions on wheel 
> stabilizers, or any other solutions you can think of to fight the flop. 
>
> Cheers,
> Cecily 
>

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[RBW] Biking with the future wifey.

[Manuel Acosta]

You know it's true love when you decide that a ride with a love one is more 
important than a ride for yourself. 

Pictures proved that I am incredibly lucky to have someone to join me:
https://flic.kr/s/aHsk62KXd2

Manny "Weddings are expensive" Acosta

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Re: [RBW] Re: Wheel Stabilizer or no?

[Patrick Moore]

This reminds me of the time I installed a Wald "Newsboy" basket -- the
biggest available, 21" X 15" X 9", now apparently called just the "Giant
Delivery Basket" -- on the front of a beater, and tested it a l'outrance
with 2 cinderblocks -- 52 lb total. I actually managed to ride it a half
block, but was scared enough to stop at that point. Hell, I could hardly
keep the back wheel on the ground.

On Sat, Nov 8, 2014 at 7:42 PM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Cecily,
>
> A possible solution could be the Mark's Hub Area Rack.  Due to it's lower
> center of gravity I'd think it would have less flop.  That combined with a
> double legged kick stand should almost guarantee a solution.   But hey
> ...  no guarantees :>)
>
> Matt
>
> On Friday, October 31, 2014 5:25:43 PM UTC-7, Cecily Walker wrote:
>>
>> Since putting a Mark's Rack and a basket on the front of my Betty Foy, my
>> front handlebars flop most prodigiously (and annoyingly) when there's
>> anything in the basket. I'm writing to get you folks' opinions on wheel
>> stabilizers, or any other solutions you can think of to fight the flop.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Cecily
>>
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*
*[I]n exploring the physical universe man has made no attempt to explore
himself. Much of what goes by the name of pleasure is simply an effort to
destroy consciousness. If one started by asking, what is man? what are his
needs? how can he best express himself? one would discover that merely
having the power to avoid work and live one’s life from birth to death in
electric light and to the tune of tinned music is not a reason for doing
so.”*
*
  -- George Orwell, Pleasure Spots*

*Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not money,
I am become as a sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have
the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and
though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not
money, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and
though I give my body to be burned, and have not money, it profiteth me
nothing. Money suffereth long, and it is kind; money envieth not; money
vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, doth not behave unseemly, seeketh
not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; rejoiceth not in
iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; beareth all things, hopeth all
things, endureth all things. . . . And now abideth faith, hope, money,
these three; but the greatest of these is money. *
*
 -- George Orwell, Keep The Apidistra Flying*

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[RBW] Biking with the future wifey.

[WETH]

Congratulations! Rides with my wife are my favorite rides.

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[RBW] Re: Found at the Co-Op Tonight

[Andrew Drummond]

Riv's version of these stems had the same hardware. My recollection is that 
the quills are friction-welded on, so Grant spec'ed them as long as he 
could. Looking closely at one NItto Technomic stem I have in the parts bin, 
I can see and feel the joint. I love the look of these stems too (I have 
two), but they're a little on the twisty side, especially with a wide bar 
like the moustache.

Andrew

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[RBW] Re: Polling what's the best 650b touring tire?

[rperks]

FWIW Schwalbe is hitting the 650b market a bit harder soon.  There is a 
650b x 62
http://www.schwalbe.com/en/tour-reader/super-moto-x.html

and a couple of others like the Kojak and big ben too
Rob

On Saturday, November 8, 2014 5:35:46 PM UTC-8, WETH wrote:
>
> If it is not thread hijacking, anyone have experience with both 
> Nifftyswifty and Soma New Xpress 650b tires and willing to share thoughts 
> on how they compare?
> Hugh, apologies if this pulls too far away from your original question.
> -Erl

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[RBW] Re: Polling what's the best 650b touring tire?

[hsmitham]

Erl,

No worries. I welcome which ever direction this post goes. 

I've been running the Soma New Express for nearly a year now and I like 
them. Very few flats and only from those pesky stickers called "Goat 
heads". I haven't used them really off road nor with a load so can't speak 
to that variable. As a road/commute tire they fit the bill.

Cheers,

~Hugh

On Saturday, November 8, 2014 5:35:46 PM UTC-8, WETH wrote:
>
> If it is not thread hijacking, anyone have experience with both 
> Nifftyswifty and Soma New Xpress 650b tires and willing to share thoughts 
> on how they compare?
> Hugh, apologies if this pulls too far away from your original question.
> -Erl

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rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com

[Grant Petersen]

Humans are omnivores, of course. I hesitate to say THIS, but if we evolved 
from apes, and it's understandable that we'd have some ape-like 
features--like a sideways-moving jaw, and eyeballs in front. 

Right now and for the last 200,000 years, our digestive system looks more 
like a dog's than an ape's, though. I don't know how to address the  "using 
cows guts to prove humans must be carnivores," but proving that humans are 
(must be) carnivores wasn't my point. My point--I maybe didn't make it 
well--was that we have a digestive system that is ideally suited to 
digesting low-fiber, nutrient-dense foods, and  are underequipped to do the 
same to high fiber or cellulose-based foods. There is SOME science 
SOMEWHERE in there.

Omnivores that have eaten considerable plants for a long enough time have 
also evolved the ability to fermentin a large cecum; but our vestigial 
cecum--the appendix---doesn't do that. It could well be that humans are the 
only discovered animals to have a digestive apparatus that's ill-suited to 
the food we (in general) eat, but it is at least as likely that, being 
omnivores, we have evolved the ability to survive on foods that don't match 
up with our digestive system. 

I was a vegetarian for 18 years, ending in 1988. That is irrelevant, but as 
a matter of fact...

Anyway. this topic is better suited to my "new book" email, which is 
gr...@eatbacondontjog.com.
The books is short--like JUST RIDE--and it's probably a bad use of time for 
me to try to comment or answer stuff here, culling arguments that I have 
already made in the book. I don't think V's are idiots. My youngest 
daughter remains one (a vegetarian, that is), and I'm up to my 
sideways-moving jaw in vegan and vegetarian friends, and the topic nev-R 
comes up.

Since I don't need the last word...can we agree to wrap this up on this 
forum by, say, Monday Noon? Whatevs-

On Saturday, November 8, 2014 12:04:01 PM UTC-8, Philip Williamson wrote:
>
> Humans, like bears, pigs, and rats, are omnivores. 
> "A true carnivore cannot move its jaw from side to side to grind its food."
> There are monogastric herbivores, like horses and rabbits. Using cows' 
> guts to prove humans must be carnivores is rhetoric, not science.
>
> http://www.saylor.org/site/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/BIO309-OC-3.8.1-Comparison-of-Digestive-Systems-FINAL.pdf
>
> Philip
> www.biketinker.com
>

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Re: [RBW] Alternatives to MUSA pants and knickers?

[Chris Chen]

Swrve midweight DWR knickers every day. Amazingly versatile, I wear them
down to the 30s, until spring ends.

On Sat, Nov 8, 2014 at 3:46 PM, rperks  wrote:

> In the last 8 months I have made the move to Swrve pants/shorts/knickers
> almost every day.  I have one pair of regular jeans that have not worn out
> yet, but will be done soon.  In the last year or so, the cut on the product
> has gotten a little more generous.  Also, do like they say and measure your
> favorite pants to determine waist size.  They do not do vanity sizing, and
> I had to come to terms with the fact that I am a 38 now.  Not skinny by any
> means, but wear a 38 regular, and they are perfect for me.
>
> Rob
>
>
> On Saturday, November 8, 2014 7:20:57 AM UTC-8, Kevin M wrote:
>>
>> The midweight Swrve pants are awesome, and they happen to be on sale
>> right now!
>>
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Re: [RBW] Biking with the future wifey.

[Chris Chen]

Weddings are expensive because we're all invited, right? :)

I kid I kid

On Sat, Nov 8, 2014 at 6:43 PM, Manuel Acosta 
wrote:

> You know it's true love when you decide that a ride with a love one is
> more important than a ride for yourself.
>
> Pictures proved that I am incredibly lucky to have someone to join me:
> https://flic.kr/s/aHsk62KXd2
>
> Manny "Weddings are expensive" Acosta
>
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>



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