Re: [RBW] C17 or C17 Carved?

[Eric Karnes]

thanks guys! coin flipped...think i'll give the carved a try.

eric

On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 2:19:43 AM UTC-4, Tim Butterfield wrote:
>
> I have had both the B17 and B17 Imperial and preferred the Imperial.  I 
> have a C17 now, but will be getting the C17 Carved for my AHH.  My guess is 
> that since I preferred the slot of the Imperial, I will prefer the slot of 
> the Carved also.
>
> On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 9:20 PM, Eric Karnes  > wrote:
>
>> I'm thinking about giving the cambium Brooks' a try. Has anyone tried 
>> both the C17 and C17 carved? Any preferences between the two? Thanks!
>>
>> Eric
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Thinking of a Riv

[Tim Butterfield]

On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 9:11 AM, Surlyprof  wrote:

> You'll never regret a Mark's rack.  So handy.  I would second the
> suggestions of the Tubus Evo and panniers.  I have a Cosmo that I've moved
> across three different bikes.  It may be heavier duty than you want but it
> isn't that heavy and the ability to carry panniers low is really nice
> because handles well and it leaves the top portion for other things.  You
> may not need it often but when you do, it is nice to have.  I would buy the
> Logo over the Cosmo.  The two prongs sticking up on the Cosmo wore through
> my Saddlesack.  I had to reinforce it with leather.  That wouldn't have
> been a problem with the Logo.
>

 I'm having some visual discord between a Tubus Logo Evo rear rack and a
Mark's front rack.  I would prefer they either both be black or both be
chrome, but would prefer to avoid a mismatch between them.  A silver
painted Logo wouldn't quite do it either.  I could get the Tubus Logo Evo
rear, but would need a matching black rack for the front.  I could get the
Marks' front, but would want a matching chrome rack for the rear.  Most of
the Tubus front seem oriented to panniers, which I'm not likely to use on
either end.  So, I could do my original guess of the Mark's front and the
Nitto R14 rear.  Or, I could do the Tubus Logo Evo rear, but would need
something for the font that was not pannier oriented.  Of course, I could
use the Tubus Logo Evo rear and keep my Ortleib Ultimate 6 Pro-M front bar
bag, not using a front rack at all.  Any further thoughts on this?

Thanks.

Tim

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Re: [RBW] C17 or C17 Carved?

[masmojo]

I have the C-17 carved on my Rawland and I have been happy with it so far. I 
don't have the regular to compare to, but I have half a dozen bikes with B-17 & 
I think I prefer having the cut out to not having it. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Massively upgraded Appaloosa

[Joe Bernard]

I had that group on a Bstone MB-1, which I REALLY wish I hadn't sold. It 
shifted and stopped like buttah. 

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Re: [RBW] Thinking of a Riv

[Tim Butterfield]

On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 7:23 PM, Tim Butterfield 
wrote:

>  Is there a different bar with flat tops that still has a flare out at the
> drops?
>

I found this one.  It might be an option.  It  seems to have a bit of
flare, but still has a flat top.
https://www.compasscycle.com/shop/components/handlebars/maes-1970s-handlebars/

Tim

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Re: [RBW] Re: Remember Islabikes?

[Garth]

DP, one persons perspective here is as valuable as another, regardless .

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Re: [RBW] Thinking of a Riv

[Tim Butterfield]

Brian,
Thanks for the info and pictures of your bike.  I'm 5'10".  I have been
reading through bar possibilities here, lots of options to be sure:
http://ruedatropical.com/2009/03/road-drop-bar-geometry/

Tim


On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 5:04 PM, stonehog  wrote:

> I like Noodles - like the curve back - fits my hands great.  I've tried
> 46, 42, and 44cm sizes, and like the 42s best (5'11" 87.5cm PBH), but that
> is a hugely personal preference and likely based on your body dimensions
> and how you ride.
>
> Like René, I like the Honjos or any aluminum fenders over plastic, but
> mainly based on esthetics and moldability - love a good fender line.  As
> far as racks go, I've tried most setups, and like a simple rear bag.  I
> love the convenience of a front bag, but keep it light and low unless you
> don't mind wheel flop.
>
> This worked pretty well for me on long rides: https://flic.kr/p/pgL8Ew
>
> At this point I've settled on this: https://flic.kr/p/zP7BQG
>
> As you've probably noticed, there are a lot of different setups on this
> list.  Rivs are great that way - most versatile bikes ever.
>
> Brian Hanson
> Seattle, WA
> www.stonehog.com
>
>
> On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 4:38:16 PM UTC-7, René wrote:
>>
>> Very very nice gray color! Bars are so personal. Also seems to depend on
>> other ongoing stuff; today my hands, butt, feet and neck hurt. Other days
>> nothing hurts.
>>
>> Here's my Homer with the Compass 44 Rando bars with Brooks tape.
>>
>> Can't go wrong with what you like!
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, May 28, 2016, Brian Campbell  wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 3:21:37 PM UTC-4, WETH wrote:

 Wow, Brian, that is a beautiful bike.  I am used to seeing lovely bikes
 here, but yours is really eye catching-the color, bar tape, etc.
 Nice work.
 Erl
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Thinking of a Riv

[Tim Butterfield]

Brian,
Beautiful bike.  Thanks for the front look at the bars. Now that I see the
angle, I'm not sure I would want the inward tilt on the tops. I may prefer
flat tops also.  Is there a different bar with flat tops that still has a
flare out at the drops?

Thanks.

Tim

On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 12:01 PM, Brian Campbell 
wrote:

> Tim,
>
> Here are some pis for comparison.
>
> My AHH as currently configured:
>
>
> 
>
> I have used 46cm Noodle bars for the last 6 years. I recently switched to
> a set of Compass Rando bars 42cm and the bar shapes are cleary very
> different. After a 100 miles on the Compass bars I determined that they are
> not for me. I like have a flatish spot for my hands and the Compass bars do
> not provide that. See the differences below:
>
> 46cm Noodles:
>
>
> 
>
>
> 42cm Compass Rando Bars:
>
>
> 
>
>
> I am 6'1" 185 and preferred the wider bars.
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Thinking of a Riv

[Tim Butterfield]

John,
Thanks for the width comment.  I'll check with them on width if I go for
the Compass.

Tim

On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 6:00 AM, John Hawrylak 
wrote:

> Tim
>
> Just 1 comment on the handlebar WIDTH.  You chosen 44cm.  I went from a
> 42cm rando type bar (38cm at the hoofs) to a 44cm Noodle (actually wider
> then 44) and did not like it as much. I felt too open regardless of hand
> position.
>
> Suggest considering or talking to Compass on width, especially at the
> hoods.  I know RBW prefers wider, but it was not an improvement for me
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
> On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 8:26:01 PM UTC-4, Tim Butterfield wrote:
>
>> John,
>> Thanks for explaining.  I had heard the Hillborne may be a little more
>> heavy duty also, though my needs don't extend further in that direction.
>> I will have a couple of months to determine the remaining components.  So
>> far, the only items I'm relatively settled on are
>>
>> Compass Randonneur handlebar  440mm
>>
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Re: [RBW] Thinking of a Riv

[Tim Butterfield]

Will,
Thanks for the link.  I think I would need this one for 700c instead of
650b.
http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/w70036135dyno.htm

The attach/detach time for the Ortlieb sounds great.  Are you referring to
the Bike Basket model or a different model?

As for the Abus, that anchor would not work for me as I rent the site I am
in and would not be able to drill holes to permanently attach a lock.  I am
most likely to use a really good U-Lock and a heavy padded chain with a bit
of extra padding around the top tube for protection while locked at home.
That might also allow simultaneous use of the bike cover like I do now.

Thanks.

Tim


On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 3:34 AM, Will  wrote:

> Go here for SP wheelset:
> http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/w6503236135dyno.htm
>
> We have 4 bikes with Logo Evo's. None are used for tourning (though they
> could be). All are used with Ortlieb rear roll tops for toting stuff. They
> replaced folding Wald baskets. Here's the thing... they attach/detach in
> about 5 seconds. The attach/detach convenience means you'll use them ALL
> THE TIME. Some folks like front loads. I am not one of them. The front is
> for unencumbered steering and unobstructed light placement. I can get 95%
> of my commuter/errand needs in a handy roll top. It's out of the way. Does
> not change bike handling. It's one of those belated discoveries that really
> surprised me. Like you, I had no interest in panniers.
>
> You'll love the Pitlocks. Hauling a big, heavy cable around sucks. The
> Pits weigh less than or equal to regular skewers. I use mine with a Abus
> Granit Futura Minu U lock. If you sink a heavy duty ring bolt into your
> cabana, or better:
>
>
> http://www.abus.com/eng/Mobile-Security/Bike-Safety-and-Security/Locks/Wall-Floor-Anchors
>
> The bike will stay loyal to you.
>
>
>
> On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 1:27:35 AM UTC-5, Tim Butterfield wrote:
>>
>> Will,
>> I had looked at the Shutter Precision dynamo, but hadn't see the stock
>> wheel with it.  Thanks.  I also looked a the Peter White page Riv links to,
>> which is where I found the SON I mentioned.  I wonder if there is much drag
>> difference between them.
>>
>> As for the Tubus Logo Evo, it seems more oriented to touring, which I
>> have no plans to do.  The light mount aspect is interesting, though.
>>
>> I am definitely planning on a set of Pitlocks.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 8:59 PM, Will  wrote:
>>
>>> Consider a Shutter Precision dynamo. Riv sells a wheelset using it.
>>>
>>> Consider a Tubus Logo Evo for the rear rack. Very good rack, fits
>>> Ortlieb panniers, carries weight lower, and is set up for the best rear
>>> dyno powered light: B Topline.
>>>
>>> Consider Pitlocks for the wheels and seat post.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 8:44:09 PM UTC-5, Tim Butterfield wrote:

 Well, my component choices just got a bit more complicated.  Isn't that
 what always happens?  It might not be quite as roadish as initially
 anticipated.

 The problem was I got to thinking of future uses as has been mentioned
 before.  That thinking can often cause these problems.  I expect my AHH to
 arrive sometime in August.  Just a few months further down the calendar,
 winter will be starting.  Here in Anacortes, that means it is getting dark
 earlier.  If I want to do any riding after work, I'm going to need
 lighting.  With the whole ride being in the dark, I don't want to have to
 keep recharging batteries.  See what's happening here?  It's like the thin
 edge of a wedge.  :)

 If I'm not using battery lights, that means a dyno hub.  Now, I'm into
 custom wheels also.  Might as well do the rear, too.  This little detour
 has added these to my tentative build list:

 Busch IQ-X headlight (black)
 SONdelux Wide Body Dyno Hub 36h
 Phil “Rivy” Rear Hub 36h

 The winters are wet here, so I might as well add these:
 SKS/ESGE LongBoard Silver Fenders

 Well, I'm almost there anyway.  What about racks?  This isn't full
 touring, though.  So, let's keep it light with these:
 Nitto Mark's Rack M1 - 20108
 Nitto R-14 Top Rack

 Less than six months after getting the AHH, it's role has already
 progressed beyond my initial guess.  It's not quite as roady as first
 thought, but probably more usable.

 These are just my initial guesses at my options.  Feel free to convince
 me otherwise.  I can always use an education and reasoning on options will
 help reaffirm choices.

 Thanks again for all of the assistance.

 Tim



 On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 7:14 PM, Tim Butterfield 
 wrote:

> I've been thinking of getting a Rivendell bicycle for a long time.  I
> first joined this group to lurk back in 2010 and have been a member and
> sometimes lurker since then.  

[RBW] Re: Long rides on low carb...

[Eric Karnes]

Hi Rene-

I went low carb / high fat this winter. And with the school year not quite 
over, I have yet to do any really long rides yet this season. But...in one 
of the Gary Taubes talks on YouTube (I forget which one), he mentions that 
he often brings a water bottle full of chicken broth (in addition to water) 
when he does intense workouts at the gym. As I said, I haven't tried it on 
long rides. But during the first week of my diet transition, I found a cup 
a day to be really helpful when I was feeling a bit weak from the 'carb 
withdrawal.'

Eric


On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 2:41:27 AM UTC-4, René wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I've been low carb high fat for about a year now, with some relapses. Lost 
> the 40 lbs between May and October last year, then plateaued, probably went 
> a bit off with and gained 10 lbs after the holidays which I've about just 
> lost back again in the last 8 weeks, albeit slowly and with some relapses.
>
> 7 weeks ago, I also started riding aerobically after discovering the 
> Maffetone method and signed up to do the 72 mile ride around Lake Tahoe 
> next Sunday.
>
> During this "training period" I noticed that since I was already quite fat 
> adapted, I had no trouble doing my bike rides on no food in the morning, 
> and that ensuring I didn't exceed my Maximum Aerobic Function HR of 124 
> (for my sweet age) I started managing to do the longer rides I previously 
> couldn't do without a lot of suffering and bonking. To stay in the aerobic 
> base building zone, I mostly chose flat rides and on the short climbs I 
> couldn't avoid, slowed to a crawl. Balance training I call it.
>
> Last Sunday, I did a 42 mile ride in just under 4 hours. This week I've 
> ridden twice to work and back, total of 36 miles each day, just split in 
> two rides. The afternoon rides home are with a very strong head/side wind, 
> where again, I have to slow down significantly and take it like 
> "meditation". Character building I call riding 18 miles with a constant 
> headwind.
>
> On all these rides I only drink water, nothing else. But when I get home I 
> feel like I can't keep riding. Once I rest a bit I feel fine, although my 
> legs and my butt "feel" it.
>
> I don't think I can do the 72 mile ride next Sunday on just water, so I'm 
> looking for some guidance and suggestions for how to fuel myself without 
> making it all sugary with gels and the traditional cycling fuels. When I 
> first did these long rides with Team in Training in 2005, I would finish so 
> bloated from all the gels I needed to take just to keep going, and also the 
> pace was too high for me. This time I'm riding by myself so I can control 
> my pace and my nutrition.
>
> I'm also hoping that during the day of the ride, I'll somehow find a way 
> to ride for 7 - 8 hours. Right now, it seems impossible as my longest ride 
> has been 4 hours, and most of my rides are around 2 hours. Suggestions are 
> also welcome.
>
> I know there is a lot of "mental" stuff needed to do these long rides, as 
> well as more aerobic training and losing the other 40+ lbs I'm still 
> carrying on me. I'm just hoping that persevering will make them truly 
> enjoyable, vs. fighting to just finish them.
>
> I welcome any other tips as well regarding managing the long hours on the 
> saddle. Frequency of stops to stretch out, rest the butt, hands, feet, 
> etc.? I know I can always get bailed out if necessary, but I'm going to try 
> to do the whole ride.
>
> Thanks for sharing your experience and feedback!
>
> I'm riding my Homer. Is anyone from this list going to do the ride as well?
>
> Best,
>
> René 
>

 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Massively upgraded Appaloosa

[Eric Karnes]

I have a Cross Check built up with that entire gray XTR group. It's 
lightweight and nicely understated. But most importantly, it's probably the 
best functioning and most dependable set of components I've ever used. I 
previously had it on an old Stumpjumper and I never once had to adjust a 
single thing...and that mountain bike was not ridden gingerly. I'm getting 
rid of the CrossCheck (too dead a ride for my taste), but maybe I'll keep 
the parts and one day build up an Appoloosa!

On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 3:59:00 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Speaking of which, I do have the matching XTR greyish rear derailer on my 
> Atlantis.  Perhaps I should switch that over...
>
> On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 11:18:12 AM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>> I think a mustard Appa slathered with greyish black XTR bits would look 
>> fabulous. Would it work appreciably better than the stock build? That's not 
>> the point!
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Remember Islabikes?

[masmojo]

You know honestly I am just as dumbfounded as Skenry! 
I think the original feelings expressed were ones of betrayal; they bought a 
bike that suited their needs, but the company introduces a bike that suits the 
needs of someone else, a bike that they take some objection too because of what 
it's made out of!? As I understand it they still make the other bikes that they 
liked, they've just expanded their offerings,  not sure why that's a problem!? 
Don't like carbon fiber? Fine don't buy it! Don't think the company should sell 
CF bikes? Fine, buy the company and discontinue them. But, otherwise it's 
presumptuous to enforce your values on them.
There's the old saying that money talks & BS walks. Obviously, customers 
expressed a desire to buy expensive kids "racing" bike, they are merely 
fulfilling that need! Good for them! If they hadn't someone else would have!
Incidentally, if you read the Blug regularly Grant has expressed a desire to 
build bikes for kids, I believe he back burnered the idea due to cost concerns. 
 I believe he was working on that about the time he was working on the 
development of the Clems.
After the tandems and Roscoe Bubbes are done maybe he will try again!?

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[RBW] Re: Long rides on low carb...

['Tim' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I didn't find brevets and low carb eating to be compatible. I was rigorously on 
the Eat Bacon Don't Jog way of eating. I lost weight and found it, at the time, 
easy to do and satisfying. I seemed to have reached nutritional ketosis and to 
have adapted to burning fat for energy. I could easily ride 4-6 hours with only 
water. But when it came time to do longer rides I struggled. I completed one 
200km ride eating meats and cheese, but was pretty sluggish at times, and had 
that bonking feeling. I did another a few weeks later and bonked pretty badly 
when I finally decided to give in and eat something. Of course, I immediately 
felt better. I finished the ride on Starbucks Doubleshots. The sugar and 
caffeine got me through. So then I would eat low carb except for when it was 
time for a brevet, and that seemed to work pretty well for me. Like any "diet" 
I didn't find low carb to be sustainable, but plenty of people do. There are a 
lot of people eating low carb and participating in endurance events these days, 
so there are numerous sources to help you find what works for you.

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[RBW] Re: Squeaky bb needs to change?

[Lungimsam]

Update:

Its not the bb. Its the freehub body squeaks as it rotates against the  hub 
where they contact each other on the outside when i walk the bike backwards 
slowly or turn the cranks backwards by hand slowly.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Remember Islabikes?

[stonehog]

Scott - please don't lump a whole list of us into those you don't agree 
with on one thread.  Of the bicycle groups I've been observing, this is one 
of the most open minded and educated.  :)  

And thanks for pointing out there are good things to be found in other 
bikes, too.

Brian Hanson
Seattle, WA
www.stonehog.com

On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 10:45:51 AM UTC-7, Skenry wrote:
>
> Deacon, 
> You might want to read some of  and others posts.  
>
> It has been specifically stated that people liked the company before, and 
> no longer do and they could not recommend them anymore after they EXPANDED 
> their offerings.
>
> How tolerant is that?   The "my way out the highway" approach doesn't fly 
> with me.
>
> Choice is a good thing.   
> Options are good things.
>
> I expected more from this list.
> On May 28, 2016 10:09 AM, "Deacon Patrick"  
> wrote:
>
>> Stop being ridiculous, Skenry. Nothing in this thread except your use of 
>> the words is intolerant or single-minded.
>>
>> In deciding between Cleary and Islabike I called and talked with both 
>> companies. Islabike was very "business and component" focused, Cleary was 
>> very "parent and kid experience with the bike" focused. That made my 
>> decision to buy from Cleary easy (despite my natural deference to anything 
>> resembling an Islay connection. Grin.). As I said earlier, and 
>> foreshadowing what Mark eventually said: "It shows me their underlying 
>> principles of bicycling differ greatly from mine."
>>
>> With abandon,
>> Patrick
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 8:35:08 PM UTC-6, Skenry wrote:
>>>
>>> And that's the point that is confusing, islabike is still making the 
>>> type of bike that you are referring to. All they are doing is offering 
>>> consumers a choice.
>>>
>>> Intolerance and single-sightedness don't seem to be those Riv qualities 
>>> that some of you preach on about.
>>>
>>> So it's a great company if they make only the type of bike that you 
>>> want?  But it's a bad company if they make the bike you want AND the type 
>>> of bike that someone else may want?
>>>
>>> Wow.  It's no wonder the reputation garnered here.
>>> On May 27, 2016 5:26 PM, "'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch" <
>>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>
 You guys are conflating the things I've written.This is not about 
 snobbery or proselytizing,  not about anti this or that, not about who 
 should or should not be on the list. I did not question anyone's 
 qualifications for being on RBW.  If you have actually read what I wrote 
 and the reason for my, let's face it, in the context of life, mild dismay 
 at Islabikes is not clear, I cheerfully give up! Wait, one last time: 

 There is a kid's bicycle company. It appeared that they had some 
 Riv-like qualities and a similar approach to bicycles as RBW. I purchased 
 a 
 bike from them based in some good measure on this approach. They are now 
 offering a line of kid's bikes that in many ways goes against this 
 approach 
 toward making and selling bicycles. I am disappointed. You don't have to 
 be. Not in the slightest. 

 On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 4:30:26 PM UTC-4, Daniel D. wrote:
>
> Because I like steel, I like pretty paint jobs, I like wool, I like 
> swedish axes, I like leather saddles, I like lugs, I like racks, I like 
> nice bags, I like the best bike shop experience ever, 
>
>  But what I enjoy and am willing to spend is not the end all be all .  
> Don't get the snobbery and need for it to be a "cause".   
>
> On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 11:56:27 AM UTC-7, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>>
>> And by the way, this idea that they are "filling a market" and 
>> "giving customers what they want" is also a bit suspect. One reason RBW 
>> is 
>> such a niche company is that the majority of people shopping for 
>> bicycles 
>> are at the mercy of the industry, which has a vested interest in pushing 
>> certain types of bicycles. And if you don't get that, I am truly puzzled 
>> why you are on this list. (Note that none of this means I think people 
>> should only ride Rivendells, or that carbon sucks, or that people cannot 
>> have fun on pro style racing bicycles. It's not about that per se.)
>>
>>
>> On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 11:40:55 AM UTC-4, RJM wrote:
>>>
>>> There is a lot of negativity towards this company here which made me 
>>> check the link so I can understand why, and after I still don't get it. 
>>>
>>> I've never heard of this company before but I understand why they 
>>> are making this pro line...not a lot of companies cater to the young 
>>> racer 
>>> and offer equipment for that. They are filling a market. If you don't 
>>> believe that kids that young are racing then you aren't attending many 
>>> races. Just this past weekend I 

Re: [RBW] Thinking of a Riv

[stonehog]

I like Noodles - like the curve back - fits my hands great.  I've tried 46, 
42, and 44cm sizes, and like the 42s best (5'11" 87.5cm PBH), but that is a 
hugely personal preference and likely based on your body dimensions and how 
you ride.  

Like René, I like the Honjos or any aluminum fenders over plastic, but 
mainly based on esthetics and moldability - love a good fender line.  As 
far as racks go, I've tried most setups, and like a simple rear bag.  I 
love the convenience of a front bag, but keep it light and low unless you 
don't mind wheel flop.  

This worked pretty well for me on long rides: https://flic.kr/p/pgL8Ew  

At this point I've settled on this: https://flic.kr/p/zP7BQG

As you've probably noticed, there are a lot of different setups on this 
list.  Rivs are great that way - most versatile bikes ever.

Brian Hanson
Seattle, WA
www.stonehog.com


On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 4:38:16 PM UTC-7, René wrote:
>
> Very very nice gray color! Bars are so personal. Also seems to depend on 
> other ongoing stuff; today my hands, butt, feet and neck hurt. Other days 
> nothing hurts. 
>
> Here's my Homer with the Compass 44 Rando bars with Brooks tape. 
>
> Can't go wrong with what you like!
>
>
> On Saturday, May 28, 2016, Brian Campbell  > wrote:
>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 3:21:37 PM UTC-4, WETH wrote:
>>>
>>> Wow, Brian, that is a beautiful bike.  I am used to seeing lovely bikes 
>>> here, but yours is really eye catching-the color, bar tape, etc.
>>> Nice work.
>>> Erl
>>
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>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Long rides on low carb...

[stonehog]

Hi René!  Congrats on sticking to the low carb stuff - I've been off and on 
for a while - like most diets, I find it hard to "stay different" from what 
others are eating around me.  Need to find the zen chi and become myself...

As far as what to eat on longer rides, here's my take.  I did brevets for a 
few years before low carb and used stuff like Perpetuum which is just 
maltodextrose (carbs) mixed with water.  Easy to get down on longer rides, 
and kept me from bonking, but not satisfying at all.  Everyone was 
different.  One guy ate dried fruits and seaweed chips - seemed like a pro 
to me.  Others ate lots of junk and gels.

On the Oregon Outback trip last year, I went with mainly coconut, nuts, and 
meat/cheese snacks.  This worked great - did five 70+ mile days and never 
felt like I was hungry.  Here's a pic of what I packed (wayyy too much, BTW 
- had half of it left at the end of the trip):

https://flic.kr/p/u3G4Nk

Just bring something with salt, and plenty of water, and you'll be fine. 
 If you feel like your are tired, stop and take a rest.  

Brian

On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 11:41:27 PM UTC-7, René wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I've been low carb high fat for about a year now, with some relapses. Lost 
> the 40 lbs between May and October last year, then plateaued, probably went 
> a bit off with and gained 10 lbs after the holidays which I've about just 
> lost back again in the last 8 weeks, albeit slowly and with some relapses.
>
> 7 weeks ago, I also started riding aerobically after discovering the 
> Maffetone method and signed up to do the 72 mile ride around Lake Tahoe 
> next Sunday.
>
> During this "training period" I noticed that since I was already quite fat 
> adapted, I had no trouble doing my bike rides on no food in the morning, 
> and that ensuring I didn't exceed my Maximum Aerobic Function HR of 124 
> (for my sweet age) I started managing to do the longer rides I previously 
> couldn't do without a lot of suffering and bonking. To stay in the aerobic 
> base building zone, I mostly chose flat rides and on the short climbs I 
> couldn't avoid, slowed to a crawl. Balance training I call it.
>
> Last Sunday, I did a 42 mile ride in just under 4 hours. This week I've 
> ridden twice to work and back, total of 36 miles each day, just split in 
> two rides. The afternoon rides home are with a very strong head/side wind, 
> where again, I have to slow down significantly and take it like 
> "meditation". Character building I call riding 18 miles with a constant 
> headwind.
>
> On all these rides I only drink water, nothing else. But when I get home I 
> feel like I can't keep riding. Once I rest a bit I feel fine, although my 
> legs and my butt "feel" it.
>
> I don't think I can do the 72 mile ride next Sunday on just water, so I'm 
> looking for some guidance and suggestions for how to fuel myself without 
> making it all sugary with gels and the traditional cycling fuels. When I 
> first did these long rides with Team in Training in 2005, I would finish so 
> bloated from all the gels I needed to take just to keep going, and also the 
> pace was too high for me. This time I'm riding by myself so I can control 
> my pace and my nutrition.
>
> I'm also hoping that during the day of the ride, I'll somehow find a way 
> to ride for 7 - 8 hours. Right now, it seems impossible as my longest ride 
> has been 4 hours, and most of my rides are around 2 hours. Suggestions are 
> also welcome.
>
> I know there is a lot of "mental" stuff needed to do these long rides, as 
> well as more aerobic training and losing the other 40+ lbs I'm still 
> carrying on me. I'm just hoping that persevering will make them truly 
> enjoyable, vs. fighting to just finish them.
>
> I welcome any other tips as well regarding managing the long hours on the 
> saddle. Frequency of stops to stretch out, rest the butt, hands, feet, 
> etc.? I know I can always get bailed out if necessary, but I'm going to try 
> to do the whole ride.
>
> Thanks for sharing your experience and feedback!
>
> I'm riding my Homer. Is anyone from this list going to do the ride as well?
>
> Best,
>
> René 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Remember Islabikes?

[Deacon Patrick]

Trenker, could you please apply your thinking to yourself and get back with 
us? Read your second sentence aloud. Then read your last two paragraphs 
aloud.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 4:36:55 PM UTC-6, Trenker wrote:
>
>
> I think that Skenry makes some valid points. If the idea is to “just 
> ride,” then who cares what kind of bike someone else chooses? 
>
>
> Rivendells are really nice bikes. They are sturdy and good-looking and 
> made to last. They are also expensive. I think when you buy something 
> expensive there is a tendency to give it great reviews because it cost so 
> much; for example, I got a pair of expensive shoes for weddings/funerals, 
> and I felt great when I wore them. They even seemed to fit extremely well. 
> But the cost of a shoe doesn’t have anything to do with how well it fits. I 
> think when someone talks about “the ride” of a Rivendell they are showing 
> some consumerism and elitism because the ride of a bike depends mainly on 
> the tires and the fit of the bike. 
>
>
> Re. a kid’s bike by Rivendell: There was an aborted attempt at one once, 
> and it was going to be called Rosco Bubbe. Or maybe it was Bosco Rubbe at 
> the time.  It would have been a nice bike, but I don’t think kids need an 
> expensive bike, and I don’t think most kids are going to ride a bike with a 
> semi-ironic name like Roscoe Bubbe. Kids are very attuned to what their 
> peers are using and they like bikes that are sporty and give an impression 
> of speed. A great bike for kids is the bmx bike, they are still popular and 
> are generally fun to ride, simple and durable. 
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>  
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Remember Islabikes?

[Steve Palincsar]

On 05/28/2016 06:36 PM, Trenker wrote:


I think that Skenry makes some valid points. If the idea is to “just 
ride,” then who cares what kind of bike someone else chooses?



Rivendells are really nice bikes. They are sturdy and good-looking and 
made to last. They are also expensive. I think when you buy something 
expensive there is a tendency to give it great reviews because it cost 
so much; for example, I got a pair of expensive shoes for 
weddings/funerals, and I felt great when I wore them. They even seemed 
to fit extremely well. But the cost of a shoe doesn’t have anything to 
do with how well it fits. I think when someone talks about “the ride” 
of a Rivendell they are showing some consumerism and elitism because 
the ride of a bike depends mainly on the tires and the fit of the bike.




Geometry doesn't matter?  I don't think so.  I'm not sure what you mean 
by "ride" is what everybody else means by the term.   Neither the tires 
nor the fit of the bike will influence how the bike turns or how stable 
or maneuverable it feels.   And I think you're wrong about "consumerism" 
and "elitism" in this context:  Bleriots ride like Rivendells.  This is 
beyond dispute.  And yet, the Bleriot was relatively inexpensive, and 
hardly an "elitist" product as we understand "elitist".  The same can be 
said for the Romulus, the low end no-frills Rambouillet.   Yes these 
were not five hundred dollar department store bikes, but they surely 
weren't high-end bikes for the elite either.  And the ride was instantly 
identifiable as "Rivendell" and stayed that way no matter whether you 
were using low end or high end tires, or whether the bike was a great 
fit or not.



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Re: [RBW] Re: Remember Islabikes?

[Trenker]

I think that Skenry makes some valid points. If the idea is to “just ride,” 
then who cares what kind of bike someone else chooses? 


Rivendells are really nice bikes. They are sturdy and good-looking and made 
to last. They are also expensive. I think when you buy something expensive 
there is a tendency to give it great reviews because it cost so much; for 
example, I got a pair of expensive shoes for weddings/funerals, and I felt 
great when I wore them. They even seemed to fit extremely well. But the 
cost of a shoe doesn’t have anything to do with how well it fits. I think 
when someone talks about “the ride” of a Rivendell they are showing some 
consumerism and elitism because the ride of a bike depends mainly on the 
tires and the fit of the bike. 


Re. a kid’s bike by Rivendell: There was an aborted attempt at one once, 
and it was going to be called Rosco Bubbe. Or maybe it was Bosco Rubbe at 
the time.  It would have been a nice bike, but I don’t think kids need an 
expensive bike, and I don’t think most kids are going to ride a bike with a 
semi-ironic name like Roscoe Bubbe. Kids are very attuned to what their 
peers are using and they like bikes that are sporty and give an impression 
of speed. A great bike for kids is the bmx bike, they are still popular and 
are generally fun to ride, simple and durable. 





 
 

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[RBW] Re: Ride Report Gap-C & O Towpath

[Deacon Patrick]

Looks like a blast, Howard! Congrats on all those firsts! May there soon be 
seconds. Grin. Cool/cold and wet is the most challenging "normal" weather 
(arctic cold, extreme heat being abnormal most areas) -- so you've got that 
down! There is something about bikepacking that brings out the "even better 
than the best" of Grant's creations.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 2:49:49 PM UTC-6, Howard Hatten wrote:
>
> Finished my ride last Saturday. Left Pittsburgh @ 5 AM, 33 degrees on 
> Monday morning. Explored the downtown for an hour or two then headed out. 
> Sky was sunny but cool. The next day brought cool rain and hazy conditions. 
> The rain stuck around most of the week making the C  & O very muddy. The 
> fenders on the Atlantis kept me very clean compared to others I encountered 
> along the way. I've ridden the Atlantis at Ragbrai and Dalmac in Michigan, 
> but I never realized  just how wonderful this bike is till this ride. 
> 1st time traveling by train with bike
> 1st rustic camping solo
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/136422809@N08/shares/69oU4R
>
> Howard
> Livonia Mi. 
>
>

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[RBW] Ride Report Gap-C & O Towpath

[Howard Hatten]

Finished my ride last Saturday. Left Pittsburgh @ 5 AM, 33 degrees on Monday 
morning. Explored the downtown for an hour or two then headed out. Sky was 
sunny but cool. The next day brought cool rain and hazy conditions. The rain 
stuck around most of the week making the C  & O very muddy. The fenders on the 
Atlantis kept me very clean compared to others I encountered along the way. 
I've ridden the Atlantis at Ragbrai and Dalmac in Michigan, but I never 
realized  just how wonderful this bike is till this ride. 
1st time traveling by train with bike
1st rustic camping solo

https://www.flickr.com/photos/136422809@N08/shares/69oU4R

Howard
Livonia Mi. 

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Re: [RBW] Thinking of a Riv

[Brian Campbell]

Thanks!

On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 3:21:37 PM UTC-4, WETH wrote:
>
> Wow, Brian, that is a beautiful bike.  I am used to seeing lovely bikes 
> here, but yours is really eye catching-the color, bar tape, etc.
> Nice work.
> Erl

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[RBW] Re: FS: Ibex and Wooly Warm, New and used (lightly)

[Joel Stern]

5 shirts are gone, I have updated the links

On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 7:06:17 PM UTC-4, Joel Stern wrote:
>
> I just got done cleaning out my cedar chest, when I was working I bought a 
> lot of ibex and wooly warm that I liked. Since I have not been cycling 
> these things are not really needed, I have set aside what I want, need and 
> am putting up for sale both new and used ibex. I will post links to photo 
> bucket
>
> New Ibex and wooly warm
>
> http://s60.photobucket.com/user/guitone/library/Ibex%20NEW?sort=4=1
>
> Used (mostly gently)
>
> There are some used Brooks Brothers and Nordstroms there, if interested 
> ask about those
>
>
> http://s60.photobucket.com/user/guitone/library/Ibex%20and%20BB%20and%20Nordstrom%20used?sort=2=1
>
> I looked at the prices of new ibex and it seems that these are going for 
> $65 to $72 for SS, and $75 for Long Sleeve
> I would want to price for a single item at $35 plus shipping new and 27.50 
> for the lightweight used, the heavy weight a bit more.  If you buy  a bunch 
> I will discount and shipping is extra, whatever it costs me.
>
> Please let me know off list if you are interested and if my pricing seems 
> ok.. I always try to give good pricing and over the years I think I have.
>
> I also have 4 FW's I have to get some photos of, will do as soon as I can 
> and post separately
>
> Thanks, Joel
>

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Re: [RBW] Chainrings...when to replace?

[Steven Sweedler]

I have been using a Surly stainless middle ring on my touring bike. On a
new chain they will sometime exhibit chain suck for a hundred or so miles.
Still worth it in my opinion. Steve

On Saturday, May 28, 2016, Lungimsam  wrote:

> Sounds good!
>
> Do they rust?
> Are they alot heavier than alu rings?
>
> They even say that when they wear out you can flip them and keep riding
> for another lifespan?
>
> I am surprised Rivendell doesnt sell steel chainrings.
>
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-- 
Steven Sweedler
Plymouth, New Hampshiret

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Re: [RBW] Re: Remember Islabikes?

[Deacon Patrick]

A black Clementine may be just the ticket, Leah. Our two eldest are growing 
wonderfully into their mediums (we're hoping that size will fit them as 
their "forever" bike), but a small clementine in black or orange. I'll be 
doing a Continental Divide criss-cross bikepacking  trip with my two eldest 
this summer. Or is the whole "girls bike" think a barrier?

With abandon,
Patrick

On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 1:29:40 PM UTC-6, LeahFoy wrote:
>
> As a side note, maybe Grant is listening and will have mercy on those of 
> us looking for Riv-esque bikes for our kids. He's been extending his 
> offerings with his Clem and his Rosco and his Hubbah Hubbah. Why not a bike 
> for bigger kids? Is it feasible to make a 24 and 26 inch bike with one of 
> the Rosco forks? I'd be very happy to continue with my extreme prejudice 
> for all things Rivendell, if given the chance. I've got a boy needing a 
> bike next year!
>

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[RBW] Now (nearly) fully stocked

[BenG]

Sheila and I want to visit from Fort Wayne to ride the Monon trail from Carmel 
into town. When we do we'll also come to see your shop, looks neat.
Ben

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Re: [RBW] Re: Remember Islabikes?

[Leah Peterson]

As a side note, maybe Grant is listening and will have mercy on those of us 
looking for Riv-esque bikes for our kids. He's been extending his offerings 
with his Clem and his Rosco and his Hubbah Hubbah. Why not a bike for bigger 
kids? Is it feasible to make a 24 and 26 inch bike with one of the Rosco forks? 
I'd be very happy to continue with my extreme prejudice for all things 
Rivendell, if given the chance. I've got a boy needing a bike next year!

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 28, 2016, at 11:51 AM, Scott Henry  wrote:
> 
> Let us all just try to be a little more open minded.
> 
> There is a huge difference in saying I don't like a certain bicycle company 
> because... and saying I like all bicycles because...
> 
> Try to be positive cyclists and embrace the activity in its entirety.
> 
> I guess I thought that you all being cyclists that you liked rivendell and 
> bicycling overall.
> So, my initial response to your use of the word "intolerant," Scott, should 
> have been:
> 
> Yes. People are expressing an intolerance in this thread. That is a good 
> thing. I am intolerant of mass produced beer, whisky from anywhere but Islay, 
> bikes made of materials that fail without warning, companies that objectify 
> their customers and see them more as dollars than as people, spoiled milk, 
> rotten eggs, and a whole lot of other things. You keep expressing intolerance 
> for intolerances expressed in this thread as disappointment in the group and 
> in the people. To me, that says a lot about you and very little about the 
> group or the people in this thread.
> 
> With abandon,
> Patrick
> 
>> On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 12:06:39 PM UTC-6, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>> Skenry, personal choice and discernment about a product or company doesn't 
>> even enter the realm of requiring tolerance and actually rightly exercises 
>> intolerance all the time. Though I suspect we have differing definitions. 
>> For reference my understanding of tolerance/intolerance is beautifully 
>> expressed by Bishop Fulton Sheen:
>> 
>> “Tolerance is an attitude of reasoned patience toward evil … a forbearance 
>> that restrains us from showing anger or inflicting punishment. Tolerance 
>> applies only to persons … never to truth. Tolerance applies to the erring, 
>> intolerance to the error … Architects are as intolerant about sand as 
>> foundations for skyscrapers as doctors are intolerant about germs in the 
>> laboratory.
>> 
>> Tolerance does not apply to truth or principles. About these things we must 
>> be intolerant, and for this kind of intolerance, so much needed to rouse us 
>> from sentimental gush, I make a plea. Intolerance of this kind is the 
>> foundation of all stability.”
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Having an intolerance for various qualities in a product is a part of 
>> customer choice. So, is this "intolerance" as in the PC use of the word that 
>> means "bigoted, wrongly judgmental"? No. Is it intolerance of qualities in a 
>> product and choices of a company? Absolutely. That part of the virtue of the 
>> free market. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> With abandon,
>> 
>> Patrick
>> 
>> 
>>> On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 11:45:51 AM UTC-6, Skenry wrote:
>>> Deacon, 
>>> You might want to read some of  and others posts. 
>>> 
>>> It has been specifically stated that people liked the company before, and 
>>> no longer do and they could not recommend them anymore after they EXPANDED 
>>> their offerings.
>>> 
>>> How tolerant is that?   The "my way out the highway" approach doesn't fly 
>>> with me.
>>> 
>>> Choice is a good thing.   
>>> Options are good things.
>>> 
>>> I expected more from this list.
>>> 
 On May 28, 2016 10:09 AM, "Deacon Patrick"  wrote:
 Stop being ridiculous, Skenry. Nothing in this thread except your use of 
 the words is intolerant or single-minded.
 
 In deciding between Cleary and Islabike I called and talked with both 
 companies. Islabike was very "business and component" focused, Cleary was 
 very "parent and kid experience with the bike" focused. That made my 
 decision to buy from Cleary easy (despite my natural deference to anything 
 resembling an Islay connection. Grin.). As I said earlier, and 
 foreshadowing what Mark eventually said: "It shows me their underlying 
 principles of bicycling differ greatly from mine."
 
 With abandon,
 Patrick
 
 
 
 
 
> On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 8:35:08 PM UTC-6, Skenry wrote:
> And that's the point that is confusing, islabike is still making the type 
> of bike that you are referring to. All they are doing is offering 
> consumers a choice.
> 
> Intolerance and single-sightedness don't seem to be those Riv qualities 
> that some of you preach on about.
> 
> So it's a great company if they make only the type of bike that you want? 
>  But it's a bad company if they make the bike you want AND the type of 

Re: [RBW] Thinking of a Riv

[WETH]

Wow, Brian, that is a beautiful bike.  I am used to seeing lovely bikes here, 
but yours is really eye catching-the color, bar tape, etc.
Nice work.
Erl

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Re: [RBW] Thinking of a Riv

[Brian Campbell]

Tim,

Here are some pis for comparison.

My AHH as currently configured:


 
I have used 46cm Noodle bars for the last 6 years. I recently switched to a 
set of Compass Rando bars 42cm and the bar shapes are cleary very 
different. After a 100 miles on the Compass bars I determined that they are 
not for me. I like have a flatish spot for my hands and the Compass bars do 
not provide that. See the differences below:

46cm Noodles:




42cm Compass Rando Bars:




I am 6'1" 185 and preferred the wider bars.


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Re: [RBW] Re: Remember Islabikes?

[Scott Henry]

Let us all just try to be a little more open minded.

There is a huge difference in saying I don't like a certain bicycle company
because... and saying I like all bicycles because...

Try to be positive cyclists and embrace the activity in its entirety.

I guess I thought that you all being cyclists that you liked rivendell and
bicycling overall.
So, my initial response to your use of the word "intolerant," Scott, should
have been:

Yes. People are expressing an intolerance in this thread. That is a good
thing. I am intolerant of mass produced beer, whisky from anywhere but
Islay, bikes made of materials that fail without warning, companies that
objectify their customers and see them more as dollars than as people,
spoiled milk, rotten eggs, and a whole lot of other things. You keep
expressing intolerance for intolerances expressed in this thread as
disappointment in the group and in the people. To me, that says a lot about
you and very little about the group or the people in this thread.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 12:06:39 PM UTC-6, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Skenry, personal choice and discernment about a product or company doesn't
> even enter the realm of requiring tolerance and actually rightly exercises
> intolerance all the time. Though I suspect we have differing definitions.
> For reference my understanding of tolerance/intolerance is beautifully
> expressed by Bishop Fulton Sheen:
>
> “Tolerance is an attitude of reasoned patience toward evil … a forbearance
> that restrains us from showing anger or inflicting punishment. Tolerance
> applies only to persons … never to truth. Tolerance applies to the erring,
> intolerance to the error … Architects are as intolerant about sand as
> foundations for skyscrapers as doctors are intolerant about germs in the
> laboratory.
>
> Tolerance does not apply to truth or principles. About these things we
> must be intolerant, and for this kind of intolerance, so much needed to
> rouse us from sentimental gush, I make a plea. Intolerance of this kind is
> the foundation of all stability.”
>
>
> Having an intolerance for various qualities in a product is a part of
> customer choice. So, is this "intolerance" as in the PC use of the word
> that means "bigoted, wrongly judgmental"? No. Is it intolerance of
> qualities in a product and choices of a company? Absolutely. That part of
> the virtue of the free market.
>
>
> With abandon,
>
> Patrick
>
> On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 11:45:51 AM UTC-6, Skenry wrote:
>>
>> Deacon,
>> You might want to read some of  and others posts.
>>
>> It has been specifically stated that people liked the company before, and
>> no longer do and they could not recommend them anymore after they EXPANDED
>> their offerings.
>>
>> How tolerant is that?   The "my way out the highway" approach doesn't fly
>> with me.
>>
>> Choice is a good thing.
>> Options are good things.
>>
>> I expected more from this list.
>> On May 28, 2016 10:09 AM, "Deacon Patrick"  wrote:
>>
>>> Stop being ridiculous, Skenry. Nothing in this thread except your use of
>>> the words is intolerant or single-minded.
>>>
>>> In deciding between Cleary and Islabike I called and talked with both
>>> companies. Islabike was very "business and component" focused, Cleary was
>>> very "parent and kid experience with the bike" focused. That made my
>>> decision to buy from Cleary easy (despite my natural deference to anything
>>> resembling an Islay connection. Grin.). As I said earlier, and
>>> foreshadowing what Mark eventually said: "It shows me their underlying
>>> principles of bicycling differ greatly from mine."
>>>
>>> With abandon,
>>> Patrick
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 8:35:08 PM UTC-6, Skenry wrote:

 And that's the point that is confusing, islabike is still making the
 type of bike that you are referring to. All they are doing is offering
 consumers a choice.

 Intolerance and single-sightedness don't seem to be those Riv qualities
 that some of you preach on about.

 So it's a great company if they make only the type of bike that you
 want?  But it's a bad company if they make the bike you want AND the type
 of bike that someone else may want?

 Wow.  It's no wonder the reputation garnered here.
 On May 27, 2016 5:26 PM, "'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch" <
 rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> You guys are conflating the things I've written.This is not about
> snobbery or proselytizing,  not about anti this or that, not about who
> should or should not be on the list. I did not question anyone's
> qualifications for being on RBW.  If you have actually read what I wrote
> and the reason for my, let's face it, in the context of life, mild dismay
> at Islabikes is not clear, I cheerfully give up! Wait, one last time:
>
> There is a kid's bicycle company. It appeared that they had some
> 

Re: [RBW] Re: Remember Islabikes?

[Scott Henry]

The dictionary say intolerance is unwillingness to accept views, beliefs,
or behavior that differ from one's own.

Yep.
On May 28, 2016 2:27 PM, "Deacon Patrick"  wrote:

> So, my initial response to your use of the word "intolerant," Scott,
> should have been:
>
> Yes. People are expressing an intolerance in this thread. That is a good
> thing. I am intolerant of mass produced beer, whisky from anywhere but
> Islay, bikes made of materials that fail without warning, companies that
> objectify their customers and see them more as dollars than as people,
> spoiled milk, rotten eggs, and a whole lot of other things. You keep
> expressing intolerance for intolerances expressed in this thread as
> disappointment in the group and in the people. To me, that says a lot about
> you and very little about the group or the people in this thread.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 12:06:39 PM UTC-6, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>
>> Skenry, personal choice and discernment about a product or company
>> doesn't even enter the realm of requiring tolerance and actually rightly
>> exercises intolerance all the time. Though I suspect we have differing
>> definitions. For reference my understanding of tolerance/intolerance is
>> beautifully expressed by Bishop Fulton Sheen:
>>
>> “Tolerance is an attitude of reasoned patience toward evil … a
>> forbearance that restrains us from showing anger or inflicting punishment.
>> Tolerance applies only to persons … never to truth. Tolerance applies to
>> the erring, intolerance to the error … Architects are as intolerant about
>> sand as foundations for skyscrapers as doctors are intolerant about germs
>> in the laboratory.
>>
>> Tolerance does not apply to truth or principles. About these things we
>> must be intolerant, and for this kind of intolerance, so much needed to
>> rouse us from sentimental gush, I make a plea. Intolerance of this kind is
>> the foundation of all stability.”
>>
>>
>> Having an intolerance for various qualities in a product is a part of
>> customer choice. So, is this "intolerance" as in the PC use of the word
>> that means "bigoted, wrongly judgmental"? No. Is it intolerance of
>> qualities in a product and choices of a company? Absolutely. That part of
>> the virtue of the free market.
>>
>>
>> With abandon,
>>
>> Patrick
>>
>> On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 11:45:51 AM UTC-6, Skenry wrote:
>>>
>>> Deacon,
>>> You might want to read some of  and others posts.
>>>
>>> It has been specifically stated that people liked the company before,
>>> and no longer do and they could not recommend them anymore after they
>>> EXPANDED their offerings.
>>>
>>> How tolerant is that?   The "my way out the highway" approach doesn't
>>> fly with me.
>>>
>>> Choice is a good thing.
>>> Options are good things.
>>>
>>> I expected more from this list.
>>> On May 28, 2016 10:09 AM, "Deacon Patrick"  wrote:
>>>
 Stop being ridiculous, Skenry. Nothing in this thread except your use
 of the words is intolerant or single-minded.

 In deciding between Cleary and Islabike I called and talked with both
 companies. Islabike was very "business and component" focused, Cleary was
 very "parent and kid experience with the bike" focused. That made my
 decision to buy from Cleary easy (despite my natural deference to anything
 resembling an Islay connection. Grin.). As I said earlier, and
 foreshadowing what Mark eventually said: "It shows me their underlying
 principles of bicycling differ greatly from mine."

 With abandon,
 Patrick





 On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 8:35:08 PM UTC-6, Skenry wrote:
>
> And that's the point that is confusing, islabike is still making the
> type of bike that you are referring to. All they are doing is offering
> consumers a choice.
>
> Intolerance and single-sightedness don't seem to be those Riv
> qualities that some of you preach on about.
>
> So it's a great company if they make only the type of bike that you
> want?  But it's a bad company if they make the bike you want AND the type
> of bike that someone else may want?
>
> Wow.  It's no wonder the reputation garnered here.
> On May 27, 2016 5:26 PM, "'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch" <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> You guys are conflating the things I've written.This is not about
>> snobbery or proselytizing,  not about anti this or that, not about who
>> should or should not be on the list. I did not question anyone's
>> qualifications for being on RBW.  If you have actually read what I wrote
>> and the reason for my, let's face it, in the context of life, mild dismay
>> at Islabikes is not clear, I cheerfully give up! Wait, one last time:
>>
>> There is a kid's bicycle company. It appeared that they had some
>> Riv-like qualities and a similar 

Re: [RBW] Re: Remember Islabikes?

[Deacon Patrick]

So, my initial response to your use of the word "intolerant," Scott, should 
have been:

Yes. People are expressing an intolerance in this thread. That is a good 
thing. I am intolerant of mass produced beer, whisky from anywhere but 
Islay, bikes made of materials that fail without warning, companies that 
objectify their customers and see them more as dollars than as people, 
spoiled milk, rotten eggs, and a whole lot of other things. You keep 
expressing intolerance for intolerances expressed in this thread as 
disappointment in the group and in the people. To me, that says a lot about 
you and very little about the group or the people in this thread.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 12:06:39 PM UTC-6, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Skenry, personal choice and discernment about a product or company doesn't 
> even enter the realm of requiring tolerance and actually rightly exercises 
> intolerance all the time. Though I suspect we have differing definitions. 
> For reference my understanding of tolerance/intolerance is beautifully 
> expressed by Bishop Fulton Sheen:
>
> “Tolerance is an attitude of reasoned patience toward evil … a forbearance 
> that restrains us from showing anger or inflicting punishment. Tolerance 
> applies only to persons … never to truth. Tolerance applies to the erring, 
> intolerance to the error … Architects are as intolerant about sand as 
> foundations for skyscrapers as doctors are intolerant about germs in the 
> laboratory.
>
> Tolerance does not apply to truth or principles. About these things we 
> must be intolerant, and for this kind of intolerance, so much needed to 
> rouse us from sentimental gush, I make a plea. Intolerance of this kind is 
> the foundation of all stability.”
>
>
> Having an intolerance for various qualities in a product is a part of 
> customer choice. So, is this "intolerance" as in the PC use of the word 
> that means "bigoted, wrongly judgmental"? No. Is it intolerance of 
> qualities in a product and choices of a company? Absolutely. That part of 
> the virtue of the free market. 
>
>
> With abandon,
>
> Patrick
>
> On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 11:45:51 AM UTC-6, Skenry wrote:
>>
>> Deacon, 
>> You might want to read some of  and others posts.  
>>
>> It has been specifically stated that people liked the company before, and 
>> no longer do and they could not recommend them anymore after they EXPANDED 
>> their offerings.
>>
>> How tolerant is that?   The "my way out the highway" approach doesn't fly 
>> with me.
>>
>> Choice is a good thing.   
>> Options are good things.
>>
>> I expected more from this list.
>> On May 28, 2016 10:09 AM, "Deacon Patrick"  wrote:
>>
>>> Stop being ridiculous, Skenry. Nothing in this thread except your use of 
>>> the words is intolerant or single-minded.
>>>
>>> In deciding between Cleary and Islabike I called and talked with both 
>>> companies. Islabike was very "business and component" focused, Cleary was 
>>> very "parent and kid experience with the bike" focused. That made my 
>>> decision to buy from Cleary easy (despite my natural deference to anything 
>>> resembling an Islay connection. Grin.). As I said earlier, and 
>>> foreshadowing what Mark eventually said: "It shows me their underlying 
>>> principles of bicycling differ greatly from mine."
>>>
>>> With abandon,
>>> Patrick
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 8:35:08 PM UTC-6, Skenry wrote:

 And that's the point that is confusing, islabike is still making the 
 type of bike that you are referring to. All they are doing is offering 
 consumers a choice.

 Intolerance and single-sightedness don't seem to be those Riv qualities 
 that some of you preach on about.

 So it's a great company if they make only the type of bike that you 
 want?  But it's a bad company if they make the bike you want AND the type 
 of bike that someone else may want?

 Wow.  It's no wonder the reputation garnered here.
 On May 27, 2016 5:26 PM, "'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch" <
 rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> You guys are conflating the things I've written.This is not about 
> snobbery or proselytizing,  not about anti this or that, not about who 
> should or should not be on the list. I did not question anyone's 
> qualifications for being on RBW.  If you have actually read what I wrote 
> and the reason for my, let's face it, in the context of life, mild dismay 
> at Islabikes is not clear, I cheerfully give up! Wait, one last time: 
>
> There is a kid's bicycle company. It appeared that they had some 
> Riv-like qualities and a similar approach to bicycles as RBW. I purchased 
> a 
> bike from them based in some good measure on this approach. They are now 
> offering a line of kid's bikes that in many ways goes against this 
> approach 
> toward making and selling bicycles. I 

Re: [RBW] Chainrings...when to replace?

[Deacon Patrick]

Excellent point, Scott! Surly chainrings are on my list to try when it's 
time to replace my middle (which I ride 95% of the time).

With abandon,
Patrick

On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 6:48:46 AM UTC-6, Skenry wrote:
>
> I'll just toss out Surly rings.They are really cheap and amazingly 
> durable.
>
> You can get just about any size you like, in popular bolt patterns, the 
> one issue for some of you may be the full tooth profile.  No shifting help 
> at all.But did I mention that they are durable?  
>
> The only chainring I liked more were Salsa rings.  Engagement rings I 
> believe they were called, unfortunately discontinued a few years ago.  
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Cheers,
> Scott Henry
> Dayton, OH
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Remember Islabikes?

[Deacon Patrick]

Skenry, personal choice and discernment about a product or company doesn't 
even enter the realm of requiring tolerance and actually rightly exercises 
intolerance all the time. Though I suspect we have differing definitions. 
For reference my understanding of tolerance/intolerance is beautifully 
expressed by Bishop Fulton Sheen:

“Tolerance is an attitude of reasoned patience toward evil … a forbearance 
that restrains us from showing anger or inflicting punishment. Tolerance 
applies only to persons … never to truth. Tolerance applies to the erring, 
intolerance to the error … Architects are as intolerant about sand as 
foundations for skyscrapers as doctors are intolerant about germs in the 
laboratory.

Tolerance does not apply to truth or principles. About these things we must 
be intolerant, and for this kind of intolerance, so much needed to rouse us 
from sentimental gush, I make a plea. Intolerance of this kind is the 
foundation of all stability.”


Having an intolerance for various qualities in a product is a part of 
customer choice. So, is this "intolerance" as in the PC use of the word 
that means "bigoted, wrongly judgmental"? No. Is it intolerance of 
qualities in a product and choices of a company? Absolutely. That part of 
the virtue of the free market. 


With abandon,

Patrick

On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 11:45:51 AM UTC-6, Skenry wrote:
>
> Deacon, 
> You might want to read some of  and others posts.  
>
> It has been specifically stated that people liked the company before, and 
> no longer do and they could not recommend them anymore after they EXPANDED 
> their offerings.
>
> How tolerant is that?   The "my way out the highway" approach doesn't fly 
> with me.
>
> Choice is a good thing.   
> Options are good things.
>
> I expected more from this list.
> On May 28, 2016 10:09 AM, "Deacon Patrick"  
> wrote:
>
>> Stop being ridiculous, Skenry. Nothing in this thread except your use of 
>> the words is intolerant or single-minded.
>>
>> In deciding between Cleary and Islabike I called and talked with both 
>> companies. Islabike was very "business and component" focused, Cleary was 
>> very "parent and kid experience with the bike" focused. That made my 
>> decision to buy from Cleary easy (despite my natural deference to anything 
>> resembling an Islay connection. Grin.). As I said earlier, and 
>> foreshadowing what Mark eventually said: "It shows me their underlying 
>> principles of bicycling differ greatly from mine."
>>
>> With abandon,
>> Patrick
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 8:35:08 PM UTC-6, Skenry wrote:
>>>
>>> And that's the point that is confusing, islabike is still making the 
>>> type of bike that you are referring to. All they are doing is offering 
>>> consumers a choice.
>>>
>>> Intolerance and single-sightedness don't seem to be those Riv qualities 
>>> that some of you preach on about.
>>>
>>> So it's a great company if they make only the type of bike that you 
>>> want?  But it's a bad company if they make the bike you want AND the type 
>>> of bike that someone else may want?
>>>
>>> Wow.  It's no wonder the reputation garnered here.
>>> On May 27, 2016 5:26 PM, "'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch" <
>>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>
 You guys are conflating the things I've written.This is not about 
 snobbery or proselytizing,  not about anti this or that, not about who 
 should or should not be on the list. I did not question anyone's 
 qualifications for being on RBW.  If you have actually read what I wrote 
 and the reason for my, let's face it, in the context of life, mild dismay 
 at Islabikes is not clear, I cheerfully give up! Wait, one last time: 

 There is a kid's bicycle company. It appeared that they had some 
 Riv-like qualities and a similar approach to bicycles as RBW. I purchased 
 a 
 bike from them based in some good measure on this approach. They are now 
 offering a line of kid's bikes that in many ways goes against this 
 approach 
 toward making and selling bicycles. I am disappointed. You don't have to 
 be. Not in the slightest. 

 On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 4:30:26 PM UTC-4, Daniel D. wrote:
>
> Because I like steel, I like pretty paint jobs, I like wool, I like 
> swedish axes, I like leather saddles, I like lugs, I like racks, I like 
> nice bags, I like the best bike shop experience ever, 
>
>  But what I enjoy and am willing to spend is not the end all be all .  
> Don't get the snobbery and need for it to be a "cause".   
>
> On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 11:56:27 AM UTC-7, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>>
>> And by the way, this idea that they are "filling a market" and 
>> "giving customers what they want" is also a bit suspect. One reason RBW 
>> is 
>> such a niche company is that the majority of people shopping for 
>> bicycles 
>> are at the mercy 

Re: [RBW] Chainrings...when to replace?

[Lungimsam]

Sounds good!

Do they rust?
Are they alot heavier than alu rings?

They even say that when they wear out you can flip them and keep riding for 
another lifespan?

I am surprised Rivendell doesnt sell steel chainrings.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Remember Islabikes?

[Scott Henry]

Deacon,
You might want to read some of  and others posts.

It has been specifically stated that people liked the company before, and
no longer do and they could not recommend them anymore after they EXPANDED
their offerings.

How tolerant is that?   The "my way out the highway" approach doesn't fly
with me.

Choice is a good thing.
Options are good things.

I expected more from this list.
On May 28, 2016 10:09 AM, "Deacon Patrick"  wrote:

> Stop being ridiculous, Skenry. Nothing in this thread except your use of
> the words is intolerant or single-minded.
>
> In deciding between Cleary and Islabike I called and talked with both
> companies. Islabike was very "business and component" focused, Cleary was
> very "parent and kid experience with the bike" focused. That made my
> decision to buy from Cleary easy (despite my natural deference to anything
> resembling an Islay connection. Grin.). As I said earlier, and
> foreshadowing what Mark eventually said: "It shows me their underlying
> principles of bicycling differ greatly from mine."
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
>
>
>
>
> On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 8:35:08 PM UTC-6, Skenry wrote:
>>
>> And that's the point that is confusing, islabike is still making the type
>> of bike that you are referring to. All they are doing is offering
>> consumers a choice.
>>
>> Intolerance and single-sightedness don't seem to be those Riv qualities
>> that some of you preach on about.
>>
>> So it's a great company if they make only the type of bike that you
>> want?  But it's a bad company if they make the bike you want AND the type
>> of bike that someone else may want?
>>
>> Wow.  It's no wonder the reputation garnered here.
>> On May 27, 2016 5:26 PM, "'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch" <
>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>> You guys are conflating the things I've written.This is not about
>>> snobbery or proselytizing,  not about anti this or that, not about who
>>> should or should not be on the list. I did not question anyone's
>>> qualifications for being on RBW.  If you have actually read what I wrote
>>> and the reason for my, let's face it, in the context of life, mild dismay
>>> at Islabikes is not clear, I cheerfully give up! Wait, one last time:
>>>
>>> There is a kid's bicycle company. It appeared that they had some
>>> Riv-like qualities and a similar approach to bicycles as RBW. I purchased a
>>> bike from them based in some good measure on this approach. They are now
>>> offering a line of kid's bikes that in many ways goes against this approach
>>> toward making and selling bicycles. I am disappointed. You don't have to
>>> be. Not in the slightest.
>>>
>>> On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 4:30:26 PM UTC-4, Daniel D. wrote:

 Because I like steel, I like pretty paint jobs, I like wool, I like
 swedish axes, I like leather saddles, I like lugs, I like racks, I like
 nice bags, I like the best bike shop experience ever,

  But what I enjoy and am willing to spend is not the end all be all .
 Don't get the snobbery and need for it to be a "cause".

 On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 11:56:27 AM UTC-7, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>
> And by the way, this idea that they are "filling a market" and "giving
> customers what they want" is also a bit suspect. One reason RBW is such a
> niche company is that the majority of people shopping for bicycles are at
> the mercy of the industry, which has a vested interest in pushing certain
> types of bicycles. And if you don't get that, I am truly puzzled why you
> are on this list. (Note that none of this means I think people should only
> ride Rivendells, or that carbon sucks, or that people cannot have fun on
> pro style racing bicycles. It's not about that per se.)
>
>
> On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 11:40:55 AM UTC-4, RJM wrote:
>>
>> There is a lot of negativity towards this company here which made me
>> check the link so I can understand why, and after I still don't get it.
>>
>> I've never heard of this company before but I understand why they are
>> making this pro line...not a lot of companies cater to the young racer 
>> and
>> offer equipment for that. They are filling a market. If you don't believe
>> that kids that young are racing then you aren't attending many races. 
>> Just
>> this past weekend I worked a local mountain bike race day and there was a
>> kid class, and they were competitive and having fun at the same time 
>> riding
>> a smaller portion of the same trail that the adults rode on. Very capable
>> kids.
>>
>> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Remember Islabikes?

[Deacon Patrick]

Excellent point, Lynne. For us, longer rides needing water, racks, etc, are 
done via the cargo bike until they are big enough for the Meerkat. At that 
point, we'll have to use a clamp on rack system and water bottle. But on 
the smaller bikes, we decided the room, weight, and need just weren't 
there. Our third daughter is about a year away from being able to bikepack 
on short S24Os, so that will be a good "problem" to have come next winter 
to occupy me. Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 11:27:58 AM UTC-6, Lynne Fitz wrote:
>
> Doing a quick compare of the offerings of the two companies - Pro series 
> aside, Islabike has provision to add fenders and racks, as well as water 
> bottle cages.  Cleary appears to have none of that.  (two grandsons getting 
> bigger; I look into these things as well)
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Remember Islabikes?

[Lynne Fitz]

Doing a quick compare of the offerings of the two companies - Pro series 
aside, Islabike has provision to add fenders and racks, as well as water 
bottle cages.  Cleary appears to have none of that.  (two grandsons getting 
bigger; I look into these things as well)

On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 7:09:14 AM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Stop being ridiculous, Skenry. Nothing in this thread except your use of 
> the words is intolerant or single-minded.
>
> In deciding between Cleary and Islabike I called and talked with both 
> companies. Islabike was very "business and component" focused, Cleary was 
> very "parent and kid experience with the bike" focused. That made my 
> decision to buy from Cleary easy (despite my natural deference to anything 
> resembling an Islay connection. Grin.). As I said earlier, and 
> foreshadowing what Mark eventually said: "It shows me their underlying 
> principles of bicycling differ greatly from mine."
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
>
>
>
>
> On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 8:35:08 PM UTC-6, Skenry wrote:
>>
>> And that's the point that is confusing, islabike is still making the type 
>> of bike that you are referring to. All they are doing is offering 
>> consumers a choice.
>>
>> Intolerance and single-sightedness don't seem to be those Riv qualities 
>> that some of you preach on about.
>>
>> So it's a great company if they make only the type of bike that you 
>> want?  But it's a bad company if they make the bike you want AND the type 
>> of bike that someone else may want?
>>
>> Wow.  It's no wonder the reputation garnered here.
>> On May 27, 2016 5:26 PM, "'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch" <
>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>> You guys are conflating the things I've written.This is not about 
>>> snobbery or proselytizing,  not about anti this or that, not about who 
>>> should or should not be on the list. I did not question anyone's 
>>> qualifications for being on RBW.  If you have actually read what I wrote 
>>> and the reason for my, let's face it, in the context of life, mild dismay 
>>> at Islabikes is not clear, I cheerfully give up! Wait, one last time: 
>>>
>>> There is a kid's bicycle company. It appeared that they had some 
>>> Riv-like qualities and a similar approach to bicycles as RBW. I purchased a 
>>> bike from them based in some good measure on this approach. They are now 
>>> offering a line of kid's bikes that in many ways goes against this approach 
>>> toward making and selling bicycles. I am disappointed. You don't have to 
>>> be. Not in the slightest. 
>>>
>>> On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 4:30:26 PM UTC-4, Daniel D. wrote:

 Because I like steel, I like pretty paint jobs, I like wool, I like 
 swedish axes, I like leather saddles, I like lugs, I like racks, I like 
 nice bags, I like the best bike shop experience ever, 

  But what I enjoy and am willing to spend is not the end all be all .  
 Don't get the snobbery and need for it to be a "cause".   

 On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 11:56:27 AM UTC-7, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>
> And by the way, this idea that they are "filling a market" and "giving 
> customers what they want" is also a bit suspect. One reason RBW is such a 
> niche company is that the majority of people shopping for bicycles are at 
> the mercy of the industry, which has a vested interest in pushing certain 
> types of bicycles. And if you don't get that, I am truly puzzled why you 
> are on this list. (Note that none of this means I think people should 
> only 
> ride Rivendells, or that carbon sucks, or that people cannot have fun on 
> pro style racing bicycles. It's not about that per se.)
>
>
> On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 11:40:55 AM UTC-4, RJM wrote:
>>
>> There is a lot of negativity towards this company here which made me 
>> check the link so I can understand why, and after I still don't get it. 
>>
>> I've never heard of this company before but I understand why they are 
>> making this pro line...not a lot of companies cater to the young racer 
>> and 
>> offer equipment for that. They are filling a market. If you don't 
>> believe 
>> that kids that young are racing then you aren't attending many races. 
>> Just 
>> this past weekend I worked a local mountain bike race day and there was 
>> a 
>> kid class, and they were competitive and having fun at the same time 
>> riding 
>> a smaller portion of the same trail that the adults rode on. Very 
>> capable 
>> kids. 
>>
>> -- 
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>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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[RBW] Re: Secondary Levers and V-Brakes

[Ron Mc]

additional $10 coupon at Modern Bike (if you can put together odds and ends 
to bring it up to $100)  37FHE 


On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 11:38:22 AM UTC-5, Brad Arnold wrote:
>
> First and foremost, many thanks to all those who replied. Just as I knew 
> the Rivendell bikes would be great, this list has been also. 
>
> I recently learned of the Travel Agent, but consider it a last resort 
> because it seems to be forcing things that do not work together to work 
> together. 
>
> I initially recommended the Bullmoose bar, but she was concerned about the 
> reach. The Noodle drop bar was more attractive because it can be paired 
> with a short reach stem (I found a Nitto 225mm stem with a 5cm reach).
>
> Since our [current] desired outcome is a comfortable drop bar system, I 
> need to consider the Paul Components in-line brake levers.
>
> The Origin 8 Space bar looks promising. If the Nitto Noodle does not work 
> out, it might be plan B.
>
> I will update the list when we find the setup that works for her. Maybe 
> that information can help others struggling with similar issues.
>
> Brad
>

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[RBW] ACW store just got a big revamp and restock for all you Associated coffeeoutside types.

[WETH]

Looks great! I just ordered a cap to go with my enamel mug!

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Re: [RBW] Thinking of a Riv

[Deacon Patrick]

I'd suggest going with cheep cotton tape, no shellac, in the "bar 
discernment" stage (for me it was a couple of years before I found bar 
heaven, but I'm a slow learner and tried every variation of adjustment with 
each bar to be sure I wasn't just a tweak away). It's inexpensive, so I 
didn't feel bad about swapping things out, or spending lots of labor 
getting it on there, etc. Once you have the bars dialed in, then go for 
your bar clothing of choice. And who knows, you may find you love 
unfinished cotton. I get two+ years out of mine now before adding a layer, 
and someday I'll have too many layers and cut it all off and start again. 
Yes, it's uglier than shellac, but the feel is far better for me.

With abandon,
Patrick

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Re: [RBW] ACW store just got a big revamp and restock for all you Associated coffeeoutside types.

[René Sterental]

Nice! Just ordered a cap and a t-shirt.

On Saturday, May 28, 2016, 'jinxed' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Over the last couple years I've had multiple requests for both tees and
> ceramic at home mugs. Apologies for taking so long, but I have finally
> dipped my toe in those waters.
>
> Decided to try out a small order of custom cycling caps made in TX by
> Ellum Bag Works. Plus new enamel mugs and patches.
>
> Our weather has been quite off and on and seemingly the "off" has been
> perfectly timed with my "on" to thwart my riding. Luckily it seems the ice
> has broken and finally got out for some of my own coffeeoutside excursions.
> It's amazing how recharging getting back on the bike is. Even with fitness
> being in the tank, it's so good to get pedaling.
>
> 
> Association of Caffeinated Wheelmen store
> 
>
> --
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> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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[RBW] Re: Large Grabsack width and height?

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I don't use a laptop, but I grabbed one lying around at work (slow day with 
the holiday weekend) that measured a little over 13" long and 9.5" high and 
it fit, as claimed on the website, along with all this other stuff, and 
closed fine. Second pic shows the rest of the stuff that was in there (2 
changes of shirt--90 degrees and muggy today in the Hudson Valley)  A 
couple items I threw in to "stuff it up" but it could still hold more. 

For a complete, scintillating photo set, including side view and bag 
stuffed into Sackville panniers:

https://goo.gl/photos/DpsYMkxmFLXWDpVXA

Great bag. Get it.

On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 8:51:08 AM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Can someone give me the main pocket interior maximum width -- ie, 
> stretching it -- as well as the height of this bag? Riv gives the 
> dimensions for the smaller size, but not for the larger.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Secondary Levers and V-Brakes

[Brad Arnold]

First and foremost, many thanks to all those who replied. Just as I knew 
the Rivendell bikes would be great, this list has been also. 

I recently learned of the Travel Agent, but consider it a last resort 
because it seems to be forcing things that do not work together to work 
together. 

I initially recommended the Bullmoose bar, but she was concerned about the 
reach. The Noodle drop bar was more attractive because it can be paired 
with a short reach stem (I found a Nitto 225mm stem with a 5cm reach).

Since our [current] desired outcome is a comfortable drop bar system, I 
need to consider the Paul Components in-line brake levers.

The Origin 8 Space bar looks promising. If the Nitto Noodle does not work 
out, it might be plan B.

I will update the list when we find the setup that works for her. Maybe 
that information can help others struggling with similar issues.

Brad

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Re: [RBW] Thinking of a Riv

[René Sterental]

I have the 44 on my Homer and it feels very nice. In theory, the narrower
handlebars ar better for low trail bikes and the wider are better for
higher trail bikes for handling. Of course, I still think it's quite
personal.

René

On Saturday, May 28, 2016, John Hawrylak  wrote:

> Tim
>
> Just 1 comment on the handlebar WIDTH.  You chosen 44cm.  I went from a
> 42cm rando type bar (38cm at the hoofs) to a 44cm Noodle (actually wider
> then 44) and did not like it as much. I felt too open regardless of hand
> position.
>
> Suggest considering or talking to Compass on width, especially at the
> hoods.  I know RBW prefers wider, but it was not an improvement for me
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
> On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 8:26:01 PM UTC-4, Tim Butterfield wrote:
>
>> John,
>> Thanks for explaining.  I had heard the Hillborne may be a little more
>> heavy duty also, though my needs don't extend further in that direction.
>> I will have a couple of months to determine the remaining components.  So
>> far, the only items I'm relatively settled on are
>>
>> Compass Randonneur handlebar  440mm
>>
>> --
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[RBW] ACW store just got a big revamp and restock for all you Associated coffeeoutside types.

['jinxed' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Over the last couple years I've had multiple requests for both tees and 
ceramic at home mugs. Apologies for taking so long, but I have finally 
dipped my toe in those waters.

Decided to try out a small order of custom cycling caps made in TX by Ellum 
Bag Works. Plus new enamel mugs and patches.

Our weather has been quite off and on and seemingly the "off" has been 
perfectly timed with my "on" to thwart my riding. Luckily it seems the ice 
has broken and finally got out for some of my own coffeeoutside excursions. 
It's amazing how recharging getting back on the bike is. Even with fitness 
being in the tank, it's so good to get pedaling.


Association of Caffeinated Wheelmen store 


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Re: [RBW] Re: Remember Islabikes?

[Deacon Patrick]

Stop being ridiculous, Skenry. Nothing in this thread except your use of 
the words is intolerant or single-minded.

In deciding between Cleary and Islabike I called and talked with both 
companies. Islabike was very "business and component" focused, Cleary was 
very "parent and kid experience with the bike" focused. That made my 
decision to buy from Cleary easy (despite my natural deference to anything 
resembling an Islay connection. Grin.). As I said earlier, and 
foreshadowing what Mark eventually said: "It shows me their underlying 
principles of bicycling differ greatly from mine."

With abandon,
Patrick





On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 8:35:08 PM UTC-6, Skenry wrote:
>
> And that's the point that is confusing, islabike is still making the type 
> of bike that you are referring to. All they are doing is offering 
> consumers a choice.
>
> Intolerance and single-sightedness don't seem to be those Riv qualities 
> that some of you preach on about.
>
> So it's a great company if they make only the type of bike that you want?  
> But it's a bad company if they make the bike you want AND the type of bike 
> that someone else may want?
>
> Wow.  It's no wonder the reputation garnered here.
> On May 27, 2016 5:26 PM, "'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch" <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com > wrote:
>
>> You guys are conflating the things I've written.This is not about 
>> snobbery or proselytizing,  not about anti this or that, not about who 
>> should or should not be on the list. I did not question anyone's 
>> qualifications for being on RBW.  If you have actually read what I wrote 
>> and the reason for my, let's face it, in the context of life, mild dismay 
>> at Islabikes is not clear, I cheerfully give up! Wait, one last time: 
>>
>> There is a kid's bicycle company. It appeared that they had some Riv-like 
>> qualities and a similar approach to bicycles as RBW. I purchased a bike 
>> from them based in some good measure on this approach. They are now 
>> offering a line of kid's bikes that in many ways goes against this approach 
>> toward making and selling bicycles. I am disappointed. You don't have to 
>> be. Not in the slightest. 
>>
>> On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 4:30:26 PM UTC-4, Daniel D. wrote:
>>>
>>> Because I like steel, I like pretty paint jobs, I like wool, I like 
>>> swedish axes, I like leather saddles, I like lugs, I like racks, I like 
>>> nice bags, I like the best bike shop experience ever, 
>>>
>>>  But what I enjoy and am willing to spend is not the end all be all .  
>>> Don't get the snobbery and need for it to be a "cause".   
>>>
>>> On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 11:56:27 AM UTC-7, Mark in Beacon wrote:

 And by the way, this idea that they are "filling a market" and "giving 
 customers what they want" is also a bit suspect. One reason RBW is such a 
 niche company is that the majority of people shopping for bicycles are at 
 the mercy of the industry, which has a vested interest in pushing certain 
 types of bicycles. And if you don't get that, I am truly puzzled why you 
 are on this list. (Note that none of this means I think people should only 
 ride Rivendells, or that carbon sucks, or that people cannot have fun on 
 pro style racing bicycles. It's not about that per se.)


 On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 11:40:55 AM UTC-4, RJM wrote:
>
> There is a lot of negativity towards this company here which made me 
> check the link so I can understand why, and after I still don't get it. 
>
> I've never heard of this company before but I understand why they are 
> making this pro line...not a lot of companies cater to the young racer 
> and 
> offer equipment for that. They are filling a market. If you don't believe 
> that kids that young are racing then you aren't attending many races. 
> Just 
> this past weekend I worked a local mountain bike race day and there was a 
> kid class, and they were competitive and having fun at the same time 
> riding 
> a smaller portion of the same trail that the adults rode on. Very capable 
> kids. 
>
> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com .
>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com 
>> .
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Long rides on low carb...

[Deacon Patrick]

Excellent job! Way to go! Remember one of the "principles" of Maffetone 
(one I wasn't very good at adhering to while building up my base -- now it 
just happens naturally) is to return home feeling like you could do it all 
again (but not). 

Look into resistant starch (think uber green banana). Here's a good place 
to start learning about 
them. 
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/search-results/?cx=004987908667488763946%3Akd-fp2c7jek=FORID%3A11=UTF-8=resistant+starch=www.marksdailyapple.com%2F==1564j355074j9#

My transition was before I learned about resistant starch. I took nuts. 
Macadamias. With salami.

What I found was that a lot of my "need" was less need to ingest and more 
my body needing to learn where to look for what it needs. So I let it go 
"hungry" and it figured it out. The transition took longer than I'd've 
liked though.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 12:41:27 AM UTC-6, René wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I've been low carb high fat for about a year now, with some relapses. Lost 
> the 40 lbs between May and October last year, then plateaued, probably went 
> a bit off with and gained 10 lbs after the holidays which I've about just 
> lost back again in the last 8 weeks, albeit slowly and with some relapses.
>
> 7 weeks ago, I also started riding aerobically after discovering the 
> Maffetone method and signed up to do the 72 mile ride around Lake Tahoe 
> next Sunday.
>
> During this "training period" I noticed that since I was already quite fat 
> adapted, I had no trouble doing my bike rides on no food in the morning, 
> and that ensuring I didn't exceed my Maximum Aerobic Function HR of 124 
> (for my sweet age) I started managing to do the longer rides I previously 
> couldn't do without a lot of suffering and bonking. To stay in the aerobic 
> base building zone, I mostly chose flat rides and on the short climbs I 
> couldn't avoid, slowed to a crawl. Balance training I call it.
>
> Last Sunday, I did a 42 mile ride in just under 4 hours. This week I've 
> ridden twice to work and back, total of 36 miles each day, just split in 
> two rides. The afternoon rides home are with a very strong head/side wind, 
> where again, I have to slow down significantly and take it like 
> "meditation". Character building I call riding 18 miles with a constant 
> headwind.
>
> On all these rides I only drink water, nothing else. But when I get home I 
> feel like I can't keep riding. Once I rest a bit I feel fine, although my 
> legs and my butt "feel" it.
>
> I don't think I can do the 72 mile ride next Sunday on just water, so I'm 
> looking for some guidance and suggestions for how to fuel myself without 
> making it all sugary with gels and the traditional cycling fuels. When I 
> first did these long rides with Team in Training in 2005, I would finish so 
> bloated from all the gels I needed to take just to keep going, and also the 
> pace was too high for me. This time I'm riding by myself so I can control 
> my pace and my nutrition.
>
> I'm also hoping that during the day of the ride, I'll somehow find a way 
> to ride for 7 - 8 hours. Right now, it seems impossible as my longest ride 
> has been 4 hours, and most of my rides are around 2 hours. Suggestions are 
> also welcome.
>
> I know there is a lot of "mental" stuff needed to do these long rides, as 
> well as more aerobic training and losing the other 40+ lbs I'm still 
> carrying on me. I'm just hoping that persevering will make them truly 
> enjoyable, vs. fighting to just finish them.
>
> I welcome any other tips as well regarding managing the long hours on the 
> saddle. Frequency of stops to stretch out, rest the butt, hands, feet, 
> etc.? I know I can always get bailed out if necessary, but I'm going to try 
> to do the whole ride.
>
> Thanks for sharing your experience and feedback!
>
> I'm riding my Homer. Is anyone from this list going to do the ride as well?
>
> Best,
>
> René 
>

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Re: [RBW] Tire wear question. When to replace?

[Ron Mc]

my normal mode is replace rears as needed, and on one bike I get triple+ 
miles from the front.  The one time I have "rotated" the tire was when I 
had a front cut, ended up moving the rear tire forward (still rolling on 
that one) and put the new tire in the rear.  But I'm a 3-tire kinda guy. 
 If I like a tire, I buy another for the roadside bag.  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Thinking of a Riv

[John Hawrylak]

Tim

Just 1 comment on the handlebar WIDTH.  You chosen 44cm.  I went from a 
42cm rando type bar (38cm at the hoofs) to a 44cm Noodle (actually wider 
then 44) and did not like it as much. I felt too open regardless of hand 
position.

Suggest considering or talking to Compass on width, especially at the 
hoods.  I know RBW prefers wider, but it was not an improvement for me

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ

On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 8:26:01 PM UTC-4, Tim Butterfield wrote:

> John,
> Thanks for explaining.  I had heard the Hillborne may be a little more 
> heavy duty also, though my needs don't extend further in that direction.
> I will have a couple of months to determine the remaining components.  So 
> far, the only items I'm relatively settled on are
>
> Compass Randonneur handlebar  440mm
>
>

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[RBW] Large Grabsack width and height?

[Patrick Moore]

Can someone give me the main pocket interior maximum width -- ie,
stretching it -- as well as the height of this bag? Riv gives the
dimensions for the smaller size, but not for the larger.

Thanks.

-- 
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**
**
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circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and
individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu

*Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the
world revolves.) *Carthusian motto

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*Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle

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Re: [RBW] Chainrings...when to replace?

[Scott Henry]

I'll just toss out Surly rings.They are really cheap and amazingly
durable.

You can get just about any size you like, in popular bolt patterns, the one
issue for some of you may be the full tooth profile.  No shifting help at
all.But did I mention that they are durable?

The only chainring I liked more were Salsa rings.  Engagement rings I
believe they were called, unfortunately discontinued a few years ago.




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Dayton, OH

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Re: [RBW] Long rides on low carb...

[Ron Mc]

good job Rene.  I guess I don't think about it so much, and I think I ride 
a bit faster - in fact, I think I use the bike riding so I don't have to 
think about it.  But again, good job - push those miles out.  

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[RBW] Re: Chainrings...when to replace?

[Ron Mc]

I have over 4000 mi on my XD, compact double, 99+% of those mi on the 
single 42T ring, and it runs great.  I bought the bare arms, the 42T from 
Riv, and the 25T granny is a Willow..  On other bikes, my experience with 
TA rings has been great, and will replace this with TA when it's time, but 
it's not even close to time...
Have you looked at chainline?  Does it make noise?  What do you do for 
lube?

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Re: [RBW] Thinking of a Riv

[Will]

Go here for SP wheelset: 
http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/w6503236135dyno.htm

We have 4 bikes with Logo Evo's. None are used for tourning (though they 
could be). All are used with Ortlieb rear roll tops for toting stuff. They 
replaced folding Wald baskets. Here's the thing... they attach/detach in 
about 5 seconds. The attach/detach convenience means you'll use them ALL 
THE TIME. Some folks like front loads. I am not one of them. The front is 
for unencumbered steering and unobstructed light placement. I can get 95% 
of my commuter/errand needs in a handy roll top. It's out of the way. Does 
not change bike handling. It's one of those belated discoveries that really 
surprised me. Like you, I had no interest in panniers. 

You'll love the Pitlocks. Hauling a big, heavy cable around sucks. The Pits 
weigh less than or equal to regular skewers. I use mine with a Abus Granit 
Futura Minu U lock. If you sink a heavy duty ring bolt into your cabana, or 
better:

http://www.abus.com/eng/Mobile-Security/Bike-Safety-and-Security/Locks/Wall-Floor-Anchors

The bike will stay loyal to you. 



On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 1:27:35 AM UTC-5, Tim Butterfield wrote:
>
> Will,
> I had looked at the Shutter Precision dynamo, but hadn't see the stock 
> wheel with it.  Thanks.  I also looked a the Peter White page Riv links to, 
> which is where I found the SON I mentioned.  I wonder if there is much drag 
> difference between them.
>
> As for the Tubus Logo Evo, it seems more oriented to touring, which I 
> have no plans to do.  The light mount aspect is interesting, though.
>
> I am definitely planning on a set of Pitlocks.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Tim
>
> On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 8:59 PM, Will  
> wrote:
>
>> Consider a Shutter Precision dynamo. Riv sells a wheelset using it. 
>>
>> Consider a Tubus Logo Evo for the rear rack. Very good rack, fits Ortlieb 
>> panniers, carries weight lower, and is set up for the best rear dyno 
>> powered light: B Topline. 
>>
>> Consider Pitlocks for the wheels and seat post. 
>>
>>
>> On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 8:44:09 PM UTC-5, Tim Butterfield wrote:
>>>
>>> Well, my component choices just got a bit more complicated.  Isn't that 
>>> what always happens?  It might not be quite as roadish as initially 
>>> anticipated.
>>>
>>> The problem was I got to thinking of future uses as has been mentioned 
>>> before.  That thinking can often cause these problems.  I expect my AHH to 
>>> arrive sometime in August.  Just a few months further down the calendar, 
>>> winter will be starting.  Here in Anacortes, that means it is getting dark 
>>> earlier.  If I want to do any riding after work, I'm going to need 
>>> lighting.  With the whole ride being in the dark, I don't want to have to 
>>> keep recharging batteries.  See what's happening here?  It's like the thin 
>>> edge of a wedge.  :)
>>>
>>> If I'm not using battery lights, that means a dyno hub.  Now, I'm into 
>>> custom wheels also.  Might as well do the rear, too.  This little detour 
>>> has added these to my tentative build list:
>>>
>>> Busch IQ-X headlight (black)
>>> SONdelux Wide Body Dyno Hub 36h
>>> Phil “Rivy” Rear Hub 36h
>>>
>>> The winters are wet here, so I might as well add these:
>>> SKS/ESGE LongBoard Silver Fenders
>>>
>>> Well, I'm almost there anyway.  What about racks?  This isn't full 
>>> touring, though.  So, let's keep it light with these:
>>> Nitto Mark's Rack M1 - 20108
>>> Nitto R-14 Top Rack
>>>
>>> Less than six months after getting the AHH, it's role has already 
>>> progressed beyond my initial guess.  It's not quite as roady as first 
>>> thought, but probably more usable.
>>>
>>> These are just my initial guesses at my options.  Feel free to convince 
>>> me otherwise.  I can always use an education and reasoning on options will 
>>> help reaffirm choices.
>>>
>>> Thanks again for all of the assistance.
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 7:14 PM, Tim Butterfield  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I've been thinking of getting a Rivendell bicycle for a long time.  I 
 first joined this group to lurk back in 2010 and have been a member and 
 sometimes lurker since then.  But, I had not made the commitment and 
 purchased a Riv.  The closest I came was getting a Velo-Orange Rando.  
 That 
 was sort of rivish.  
 https://www.flickr.com/photos/timbutterfield/sets/72157624827193423

 Being in the suburbs of Chicago near O'Hare airport limited my comfort 
 using it the way it should have been.  That bike was sold before I left 
 Chicago to live full-time in an RV.  Once we decided to settle in 
 Anacortes, WA (still in the RV), I purchased a Specialized AWOL Comp, 
 definitely not rivish.  
 https://www.flickr.com/photos/timbutterfield/sets/72157644371355428

 It's a nice bike, but I now want something more rivish, this time, the 
 real thing.  I'm thinking of getting either the Roadeo or the A 

Re: [RBW] Thinking of a Riv

[Tim Butterfield]

René ,

Thanks for the info.

I don't think I want panniers.  They seem too tour-y to me and I don't know
I would ever have the need to carry that much.  I would prefer to strap on
a single bag in the rear or even a basket if needed.  As for a front, I'm
not really set on a front rack.  I have an Ortlieb Ultimate 6 Pro-M
handlebar bag now and like the transparent cover, which is handy for maps,
though I have not used that part of it much.  It's not too large, but is
easy to reach.  And, with the lockable quick-release on it, it is so much
easy to put on or take off without having to strap it down.  That aspect is
appealing.  I guess I could also have that and the rack and alternate which
I use as I see fit.

I had Honjo hammered fenders on my VO Rondo.  They were quite nice.  I
wouldn't mind some more like those on my AHH.

I do plan to follow the advice you and Tim have made about 3x as brifters
or 2x as bar ends.  I have not yet decided which, but am leaning towards
bar ends with the cable routed under the bar tape.

As for the cassette, I wish the Riv elite wide 12-40 were still available.
I'm still weak and can imagine needing that, especially if I ever try to
climb Mt. Baker some day.  Even here within Anacortes, there are some nice
climbs on some of the streets.  Having a good low end would be helpful.

Thanks.

Tim



On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 11:55 PM, René Sterental 
wrote:

> +1 on the SON hubs. All my bikes have them, except for the Homer at this
> time.
>
> The R14 is great if you're just going to use a Medium/Large Saddlesack.
> For panniers, even small ones it won't work. I have one but not mounted
> now. I just ride my Homer with a small Trunksack in the front on the Mark's
> Rack for light stuff like wallet, keys, phone, and use an Acorn Large or
> Medium Saddlebag, depending on the season.
>
> Honjo fenders is the way to go, I don't like the plastic ones.
>
> I also agree that the original Waterford blue is the best color for the
> Homer; just as the original Waterford green is the best color for the
> Atlantis. Toyo frames for both have a different shade, but I find the
> Waterford colors so perfect that when I repainted my Atlantis, I just went
> with the same color and personalized it with the panels. In fact, I believe
> that all the original colors for all Rivendell bikes with the exception of
> the Hunqapillar gray/plum are perfect. Choosing a color for a custom
> bike/paint job is so hard... And you don't always like it long term as much
> as you thought you would...
>
> After a very excruciating process and change of hearts, I decided to go
> with silver for my custom. It will have polished lugs. When I repainted my
> Hunqapillar my final debate was between silver and pewter. I chose pewter
> and even though I liked it a lot, there was something "missing" after a
> while. So I'll go with silver this time and hope the feeling it evokes
> lasts just like the Homer and Atlantis colors have. Even the Betty.
>
> Based on what you said for your cockpit, plus your choice of the Compass
> Rando bar, I'd suggest going with 2x10 barends. Like I said, that setup
> works much better than the 3x9 (with barends) I had before on my Bike
> Friday. I will recommend going with the XT 772 rear derailleur that can go
> up to 36 and works perfectly with the 10 speed setup while looking more
> classical and less black and weird like the MTB 10 speed derailleurs do. If
> you don't need to go up to 36 like I do, there are other choices.
>
> Enjoy!
>
>
> On Friday, May 27, 2016, Tim Butterfield  wrote:
>
>> Will,
>> I had looked at the Shutter Precision dynamo, but hadn't see the stock
>> wheel with it.  Thanks.  I also looked a the Peter White page Riv links to,
>> which is where I found the SON I mentioned.  I wonder if there is much drag
>> difference between them.
>>
>> As for the Tubus Logo Evo, it seems more oriented to touring, which I
>> have no plans to do.  The light mount aspect is interesting, though.
>>
>> I am definitely planning on a set of Pitlocks.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 8:59 PM, Will  wrote:
>>
>>> Consider a Shutter Precision dynamo. Riv sells a wheelset using it.
>>>
>>> Consider a Tubus Logo Evo for the rear rack. Very good rack, fits
>>> Ortlieb panniers, carries weight lower, and is set up for the best rear
>>> dyno powered light: B Topline.
>>>
>>> Consider Pitlocks for the wheels and seat post.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 8:44:09 PM UTC-5, Tim Butterfield wrote:

 Well, my component choices just got a bit more complicated.  Isn't that
 what always happens?  It might not be quite as roadish as initially
 anticipated.

 The problem was I got to thinking of future uses as has been mentioned
 before.  That thinking can often cause these problems.  I expect my AHH to
 arrive sometime in August.  Just a few months further down the calendar,

Re: [RBW] Long rides on low carb...

[Tim Butterfield]

René ,

I recently started on LCHF also.  It seems you may be exercising during an
intermittent fast.  That's a great way to increase adaptation, but with
some possible side effects also as you're experiencing.  Even though you
are primarily burning fat, I doubt it is 100% fat.  It may be that you need
a small amount of carbs to replenish what you are burning.

The chart on this page (http://fellrnr.com/wiki/Comparison_of_Energy_Gels)
makes me guess that taking something like a single Accel Gel three hours
into a four hour session may help relieve some of your symptoms.  Now that
you are more fat adapted than in 2005, you should be able to get by on a
fraction of the gels.

We are each an experiment of one.  As such, we need to test things to see
how our bodies respond.  My additional guesses are that you would need more
in longer events like the 72 hours, but also that your stomach may react
differently to different things. You mentioned the bloating in 2005.  That
may indicate you still may not be able use just gels, even if used
sparingly.  So, try different things.  At some point, it may be helpful to
have a small chunk of potato with some salt as you're losing electrolytes
also.  Just having a small dose of some carbs every few hours may be
sufficient.  At another time, maybe you could try a few pieces of dried
fruit or a quarter of a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, just small
amounts each time as you don't need a lot of carbs like in 2005, just a
little.  Have a variety of small doses and be prepared to adapt to what
your body tells you, changing next time if you react poorly or have more
later if you react well.

These are just my guesses based on what I have learned from others, mostly
ultra runners, and are not from personal experience.  I have not yet
progressed to being able to utilize these strategies myself.  Still, I hope
it helps some.

Tim



On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 11:41 PM, René Sterental 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I've been low carb high fat for about a year now, with some relapses. Lost
> the 40 lbs between May and October last year, then plateaued, probably went
> a bit off with and gained 10 lbs after the holidays which I've about just
> lost back again in the last 8 weeks, albeit slowly and with some relapses.
>
> 7 weeks ago, I also started riding aerobically after discovering the
> Maffetone method and signed up to do the 72 mile ride around Lake Tahoe
> next Sunday.
>
> During this "training period" I noticed that since I was already quite fat
> adapted, I had no trouble doing my bike rides on no food in the morning,
> and that ensuring I didn't exceed my Maximum Aerobic Function HR of 124
> (for my sweet age) I started managing to do the longer rides I previously
> couldn't do without a lot of suffering and bonking. To stay in the aerobic
> base building zone, I mostly chose flat rides and on the short climbs I
> couldn't avoid, slowed to a crawl. Balance training I call it.
>
> Last Sunday, I did a 42 mile ride in just under 4 hours. This week I've
> ridden twice to work and back, total of 36 miles each day, just split in
> two rides. The afternoon rides home are with a very strong head/side wind,
> where again, I have to slow down significantly and take it like
> "meditation". Character building I call riding 18 miles with a constant
> headwind.
>
> On all these rides I only drink water, nothing else. But when I get home I
> feel like I can't keep riding. Once I rest a bit I feel fine, although my
> legs and my butt "feel" it.
>
> I don't think I can do the 72 mile ride next Sunday on just water, so I'm
> looking for some guidance and suggestions for how to fuel myself without
> making it all sugary with gels and the traditional cycling fuels. When I
> first did these long rides with Team in Training in 2005, I would finish so
> bloated from all the gels I needed to take just to keep going, and also the
> pace was too high for me. This time I'm riding by myself so I can control
> my pace and my nutrition.
>
> I'm also hoping that during the day of the ride, I'll somehow find a way
> to ride for 7 - 8 hours. Right now, it seems impossible as my longest ride
> has been 4 hours, and most of my rides are around 2 hours. Suggestions are
> also welcome.
>
> I know there is a lot of "mental" stuff needed to do these long rides, as
> well as more aerobic training and losing the other 40+ lbs I'm still
> carrying on me. I'm just hoping that persevering will make them truly
> enjoyable, vs. fighting to just finish them.
>
> I welcome any other tips as well regarding managing the long hours on the
> saddle. Frequency of stops to stretch out, rest the butt, hands, feet,
> etc.? I know I can always get bailed out if necessary, but I'm going to try
> to do the whole ride.
>
> Thanks for sharing your experience and feedback!
>
> I'm riding my Homer. Is anyone from this list going to do the ride as well?
>
> Best,
>
> René
>
> --
> You received this message because you are 

[RBW] Re: Long rides on low carb...

[Jeremy Tavan]

Hi, René,

The Lake Tahoe ride sounds like lots of fun. Can't make it next Sunday, but 
maybe the next time it's done - I might even be almost in shape by then!

As for high-fat, bike-portable snacks, we have enjoyed nut balls made from 
macadamia nuts, coconut oil and coconut butter, cacao nibs, and a few dates 
ground up, formed into balls, and chilled. Very energy dense, not too sweet 
or carby. I haven't used them specifically on a ride yet, but I plan to. 
Maybe add a bit of salt for use DURING exercise. Anyone else enjoy these?

/Jeremy

On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 11:41:27 PM UTC-7, René wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I've been low carb high fat for about a year now, with some relapses. Lost 
> the 40 lbs between May and October last year, then plateaued, probably went 
> a bit off with and gained 10 lbs after the holidays which I've about just 
> lost back again in the last 8 weeks, albeit slowly and with some relapses.
>
> 7 weeks ago, I also started riding aerobically after discovering the 
> Maffetone method and signed up to do the 72 mile ride around Lake Tahoe 
> next Sunday.
>
> During this "training period" I noticed that since I was already quite fat 
> adapted, I had no trouble doing my bike rides on no food in the morning, 
> and that ensuring I didn't exceed my Maximum Aerobic Function HR of 124 
> (for my sweet age) I started managing to do the longer rides I previously 
> couldn't do without a lot of suffering and bonking. To stay in the aerobic 
> base building zone, I mostly chose flat rides and on the short climbs I 
> couldn't avoid, slowed to a crawl. Balance training I call it.
>
> Last Sunday, I did a 42 mile ride in just under 4 hours. This week I've 
> ridden twice to work and back, total of 36 miles each day, just split in 
> two rides. The afternoon rides home are with a very strong head/side wind, 
> where again, I have to slow down significantly and take it like 
> "meditation". Character building I call riding 18 miles with a constant 
> headwind.
>
> On all these rides I only drink water, nothing else. But when I get home I 
> feel like I can't keep riding. Once I rest a bit I feel fine, although my 
> legs and my butt "feel" it.
>
> I don't think I can do the 72 mile ride next Sunday on just water, so I'm 
> looking for some guidance and suggestions for how to fuel myself without 
> making it all sugary with gels and the traditional cycling fuels. When I 
> first did these long rides with Team in Training in 2005, I would finish so 
> bloated from all the gels I needed to take just to keep going, and also the 
> pace was too high for me. This time I'm riding by myself so I can control 
> my pace and my nutrition.
>
> I'm also hoping that during the day of the ride, I'll somehow find a way 
> to ride for 7 - 8 hours. Right now, it seems impossible as my longest ride 
> has been 4 hours, and most of my rides are around 2 hours. Suggestions are 
> also welcome.
>
> I know there is a lot of "mental" stuff needed to do these long rides, as 
> well as more aerobic training and losing the other 40+ lbs I'm still 
> carrying on me. I'm just hoping that persevering will make them truly 
> enjoyable, vs. fighting to just finish them.
>
> I welcome any other tips as well regarding managing the long hours on the 
> saddle. Frequency of stops to stretch out, rest the butt, hands, feet, 
> etc.? I know I can always get bailed out if necessary, but I'm going to try 
> to do the whole ride.
>
> Thanks for sharing your experience and feedback!
>
> I'm riding my Homer. Is anyone from this list going to do the ride as well?
>
> Best,
>
> René 
>

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Re: [RBW] Thinking of a Riv

[René Sterental]

+1 on the SON hubs. All my bikes have them, except for the Homer at this
time.

The R14 is great if you're just going to use a Medium/Large Saddlesack. For
panniers, even small ones it won't work. I have one but not mounted now. I
just ride my Homer with a small Trunksack in the front on the Mark's Rack
for light stuff like wallet, keys, phone, and use an Acorn Large or Medium
Saddlebag, depending on the season.

Honjo fenders is the way to go, I don't like the plastic ones.

I also agree that the original Waterford blue is the best color for the
Homer; just as the original Waterford green is the best color for the
Atlantis. Toyo frames for both have a different shade, but I find the
Waterford colors so perfect that when I repainted my Atlantis, I just went
with the same color and personalized it with the panels. In fact, I believe
that all the original colors for all Rivendell bikes with the exception of
the Hunqapillar gray/plum are perfect. Choosing a color for a custom
bike/paint job is so hard... And you don't always like it long term as much
as you thought you would...

After a very excruciating process and change of hearts, I decided to go
with silver for my custom. It will have polished lugs. When I repainted my
Hunqapillar my final debate was between silver and pewter. I chose pewter
and even though I liked it a lot, there was something "missing" after a
while. So I'll go with silver this time and hope the feeling it evokes
lasts just like the Homer and Atlantis colors have. Even the Betty.

Based on what you said for your cockpit, plus your choice of the Compass
Rando bar, I'd suggest going with 2x10 barends. Like I said, that setup
works much better than the 3x9 (with barends) I had before on my Bike
Friday. I will recommend going with the XT 772 rear derailleur that can go
up to 36 and works perfectly with the 10 speed setup while looking more
classical and less black and weird like the MTB 10 speed derailleurs do. If
you don't need to go up to 36 like I do, there are other choices.

Enjoy!

On Friday, May 27, 2016, Tim Butterfield  wrote:

> Will,
> I had looked at the Shutter Precision dynamo, but hadn't see the stock
> wheel with it.  Thanks.  I also looked a the Peter White page Riv links to,
> which is where I found the SON I mentioned.  I wonder if there is much drag
> difference between them.
>
> As for the Tubus Logo Evo, it seems more oriented to touring, which I
> have no plans to do.  The light mount aspect is interesting, though.
>
> I am definitely planning on a set of Pitlocks.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Tim
>
> On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 8:59 PM, Will  > wrote:
>
>> Consider a Shutter Precision dynamo. Riv sells a wheelset using it.
>>
>> Consider a Tubus Logo Evo for the rear rack. Very good rack, fits Ortlieb
>> panniers, carries weight lower, and is set up for the best rear dyno
>> powered light: B Topline.
>>
>> Consider Pitlocks for the wheels and seat post.
>>
>>
>> On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 8:44:09 PM UTC-5, Tim Butterfield wrote:
>>>
>>> Well, my component choices just got a bit more complicated.  Isn't that
>>> what always happens?  It might not be quite as roadish as initially
>>> anticipated.
>>>
>>> The problem was I got to thinking of future uses as has been mentioned
>>> before.  That thinking can often cause these problems.  I expect my AHH to
>>> arrive sometime in August.  Just a few months further down the calendar,
>>> winter will be starting.  Here in Anacortes, that means it is getting dark
>>> earlier.  If I want to do any riding after work, I'm going to need
>>> lighting.  With the whole ride being in the dark, I don't want to have to
>>> keep recharging batteries.  See what's happening here?  It's like the thin
>>> edge of a wedge.  :)
>>>
>>> If I'm not using battery lights, that means a dyno hub.  Now, I'm into
>>> custom wheels also.  Might as well do the rear, too.  This little detour
>>> has added these to my tentative build list:
>>>
>>> Busch IQ-X headlight (black)
>>> SONdelux Wide Body Dyno Hub 36h
>>> Phil “Rivy” Rear Hub 36h
>>>
>>> The winters are wet here, so I might as well add these:
>>> SKS/ESGE LongBoard Silver Fenders
>>>
>>> Well, I'm almost there anyway.  What about racks?  This isn't full
>>> touring, though.  So, let's keep it light with these:
>>> Nitto Mark's Rack M1 - 20108
>>> Nitto R-14 Top Rack
>>>
>>> Less than six months after getting the AHH, it's role has already
>>> progressed beyond my initial guess.  It's not quite as roady as first
>>> thought, but probably more usable.
>>>
>>> These are just my initial guesses at my options.  Feel free to convince
>>> me otherwise.  I can always use an education and reasoning on options will
>>> help reaffirm choices.
>>>
>>> Thanks again for all of the assistance.
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 7:14 PM, Tim Butterfield 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I've 

[RBW] Long rides on low carb...

[René Sterental]

Hi all,

I've been low carb high fat for about a year now, with some relapses. Lost
the 40 lbs between May and October last year, then plateaued, probably went
a bit off with and gained 10 lbs after the holidays which I've about just
lost back again in the last 8 weeks, albeit slowly and with some relapses.

7 weeks ago, I also started riding aerobically after discovering the
Maffetone method and signed up to do the 72 mile ride around Lake Tahoe
next Sunday.

During this "training period" I noticed that since I was already quite fat
adapted, I had no trouble doing my bike rides on no food in the morning,
and that ensuring I didn't exceed my Maximum Aerobic Function HR of 124
(for my sweet age) I started managing to do the longer rides I previously
couldn't do without a lot of suffering and bonking. To stay in the aerobic
base building zone, I mostly chose flat rides and on the short climbs I
couldn't avoid, slowed to a crawl. Balance training I call it.

Last Sunday, I did a 42 mile ride in just under 4 hours. This week I've
ridden twice to work and back, total of 36 miles each day, just split in
two rides. The afternoon rides home are with a very strong head/side wind,
where again, I have to slow down significantly and take it like
"meditation". Character building I call riding 18 miles with a constant
headwind.

On all these rides I only drink water, nothing else. But when I get home I
feel like I can't keep riding. Once I rest a bit I feel fine, although my
legs and my butt "feel" it.

I don't think I can do the 72 mile ride next Sunday on just water, so I'm
looking for some guidance and suggestions for how to fuel myself without
making it all sugary with gels and the traditional cycling fuels. When I
first did these long rides with Team in Training in 2005, I would finish so
bloated from all the gels I needed to take just to keep going, and also the
pace was too high for me. This time I'm riding by myself so I can control
my pace and my nutrition.

I'm also hoping that during the day of the ride, I'll somehow find a way to
ride for 7 - 8 hours. Right now, it seems impossible as my longest ride has
been 4 hours, and most of my rides are around 2 hours. Suggestions are also
welcome.

I know there is a lot of "mental" stuff needed to do these long rides, as
well as more aerobic training and losing the other 40+ lbs I'm still
carrying on me. I'm just hoping that persevering will make them truly
enjoyable, vs. fighting to just finish them.

I welcome any other tips as well regarding managing the long hours on the
saddle. Frequency of stops to stretch out, rest the butt, hands, feet,
etc.? I know I can always get bailed out if necessary, but I'm going to try
to do the whole ride.

Thanks for sharing your experience and feedback!

I'm riding my Homer. Is anyone from this list going to do the ride as well?

Best,

René

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Re: [RBW] Thinking of a Riv

[Tim Butterfield]

Will,
I had looked at the Shutter Precision dynamo, but hadn't see the stock
wheel with it.  Thanks.  I also looked a the Peter White page Riv links to,
which is where I found the SON I mentioned.  I wonder if there is much drag
difference between them.

As for the Tubus Logo Evo, it seems more oriented to touring, which I have
no plans to do.  The light mount aspect is interesting, though.

I am definitely planning on a set of Pitlocks.

Thanks.

Tim

On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 8:59 PM, Will  wrote:

> Consider a Shutter Precision dynamo. Riv sells a wheelset using it.
>
> Consider a Tubus Logo Evo for the rear rack. Very good rack, fits Ortlieb
> panniers, carries weight lower, and is set up for the best rear dyno
> powered light: B Topline.
>
> Consider Pitlocks for the wheels and seat post.
>
>
> On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 8:44:09 PM UTC-5, Tim Butterfield wrote:
>>
>> Well, my component choices just got a bit more complicated.  Isn't that
>> what always happens?  It might not be quite as roadish as initially
>> anticipated.
>>
>> The problem was I got to thinking of future uses as has been mentioned
>> before.  That thinking can often cause these problems.  I expect my AHH to
>> arrive sometime in August.  Just a few months further down the calendar,
>> winter will be starting.  Here in Anacortes, that means it is getting dark
>> earlier.  If I want to do any riding after work, I'm going to need
>> lighting.  With the whole ride being in the dark, I don't want to have to
>> keep recharging batteries.  See what's happening here?  It's like the thin
>> edge of a wedge.  :)
>>
>> If I'm not using battery lights, that means a dyno hub.  Now, I'm into
>> custom wheels also.  Might as well do the rear, too.  This little detour
>> has added these to my tentative build list:
>>
>> Busch IQ-X headlight (black)
>> SONdelux Wide Body Dyno Hub 36h
>> Phil “Rivy” Rear Hub 36h
>>
>> The winters are wet here, so I might as well add these:
>> SKS/ESGE LongBoard Silver Fenders
>>
>> Well, I'm almost there anyway.  What about racks?  This isn't full
>> touring, though.  So, let's keep it light with these:
>> Nitto Mark's Rack M1 - 20108
>> Nitto R-14 Top Rack
>>
>> Less than six months after getting the AHH, it's role has already
>> progressed beyond my initial guess.  It's not quite as roady as first
>> thought, but probably more usable.
>>
>> These are just my initial guesses at my options.  Feel free to convince
>> me otherwise.  I can always use an education and reasoning on options will
>> help reaffirm choices.
>>
>> Thanks again for all of the assistance.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 7:14 PM, Tim Butterfield 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I've been thinking of getting a Rivendell bicycle for a long time.  I
>>> first joined this group to lurk back in 2010 and have been a member and
>>> sometimes lurker since then.  But, I had not made the commitment and
>>> purchased a Riv.  The closest I came was getting a Velo-Orange Rando.  That
>>> was sort of rivish.
>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/timbutterfield/sets/72157624827193423
>>>
>>> Being in the suburbs of Chicago near O'Hare airport limited my comfort
>>> using it the way it should have been.  That bike was sold before I left
>>> Chicago to live full-time in an RV.  Once we decided to settle in
>>> Anacortes, WA (still in the RV), I purchased a Specialized AWOL Comp,
>>> definitely not rivish.
>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/timbutterfield/sets/72157644371355428
>>>
>>> It's a nice bike, but I now want something more rivish, this time, the
>>> real thing.  I'm thinking of getting either the Roadeo or the A Homer
>>> Hilsen.  I like the idea of the liveliness and sportiness of the Roadeo,
>>> but like the bit of extra versatility of the AHH also.  With my weight at
>>> 200+ (PBH 33" or 83.8cm, age 51), I'm leaning towards the AHH instead of
>>> the Roadeo.  I can start more roadish with the AHH and, as I build my
>>> abilities further, expand the bike to fit new and/or different tasks
>>> without having to change frames.
>>>
>>> So, I'm fairly settled on getting my first Riv, one of the two
>>> mentioned.  My pondering now is mostly on how to appoint it.  My Rando was
>>> more modern with the 105 setup.  The AWOL was definitely modern with discs
>>> and SRAM setup.  But, I'm not tied to that.  Though I haven't used it much,
>>> I like the looks of a quill stem, drop bars, and downtube shifters.  It
>>> looks clean and simple.  I'm just not sure what it's like to live with.  I
>>> expect that, like many things, it is a matter of adapting to it.  But,
>>> using DT shifters or bar ends does set a direction as neither would work
>>> with an 11-speed I could have instead.  I'm trying to consider the pros and
>>> cons of each.
>>>
>>> With my AWOL, I leave it locked to the cabana just outside my RV.  Some
>>> RVs have sufficient inside storage for a bike.  Mine doesn't.
>>>
>>> My questions to the group are these:  

Re: [RBW] C17 or C17 Carved?

[Tim Butterfield]

I have had both the B17 and B17 Imperial and preferred the Imperial.  I
have a C17 now, but will be getting the C17 Carved for my AHH.  My guess is
that since I preferred the slot of the Imperial, I will prefer the slot of
the Carved also.

On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 9:20 PM, Eric Karnes  wrote:

> I'm thinking about giving the cambium Brooks' a try. Has anyone tried both
> the C17 and C17 carved? Any preferences between the two? Thanks!
>
> Eric
>
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Re: [RBW] Spring in CA

[René Sterental]

Lovely!

On Thursday, May 26, 2016, Surlyprof  wrote:

> Stunning photos! Thanks.
>
> On Tuesday, May 24, 2016 at 7:07:17 PM UTC-7, Daniel Jackson wrote:
>>
>> Howdy folks,
>>
>> Here are photos  of a
>> trip this past Spring inspired and aided by many of you. Thanks to all who
>> helped me put these routes together.
>>
>> Best,
>> Daniel
>> Northeast Kingdom, VT
>>
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Re: [RBW] C17 or C17 Carved?

[René Sterental]

I have both. I think I prefer the carved, but honestly, I don't think I can
tell the difference in feel. I've done long rides 3 - 4 hours on both.

Choose the color you prefer and toss a coin for carved or not... :-)

René

On Friday, May 27, 2016, Eric Karnes  wrote:

> I'm thinking about giving the cambium Brooks' a try. Has anyone tried both
> the C17 and C17 carved? Any preferences between the two? Thanks!
>
> Eric
>
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[RBW] C17 or C17 Carved?

[Eric Karnes]

I'm thinking about giving the cambium Brooks' a try. Has anyone tried both 
the C17 and C17 carved? Any preferences between the two? Thanks!

Eric

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