Re: [RBW] Re: What's in Your Cockpit?

[Ron Mc]

headlight, bell and Randi-Jo bar bag

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[RBW] Re: Fantasyland Daydream: Ti "Riv"

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Looks like Mr. Heine ponied up for his fantasyland bike:

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2016/08/30/i-bought-a-titanium-bike/

On Saturday, August 27, 2016 at 10:55:43 PM UTC-4, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>
> http://fireflybicycles.com/bicycles/all-road
>
> Since it is custom, and they offer different head tubes and braking 
> options, I am pretty sure they would be happy to take your money and get 
> you on a Fantasy "Riv, " complete with cantis, quill stem, and geometry for 
> bars level with saddle. A Firefly All Road was reviewed in BQ last issue.
>
> Like Steve, I had a '91 Spectrum. I liked it fine, but I like steel 
> better. I've ridden modern Ti as well--a friend bought a Lynskey road bike 
> recently. It's a great material for bikes, but it just doesn't do much for 
> me--certainly not enough to pay the extra $$$. Though I did flirt with 
> buying a proto ti rSogn that Sean of Rawland offered at one point (which I 
> believe was built by Lynskey).
>
> On Saturday, August 27, 2016 at 3:53:00 PM UTC-4, Call Me Jay wrote:
>>
>> I was thinking something akin to a titanium Legolas---drop bars, cantis, 
>> fits CX tires and fenders, quill stem and Riv fit.
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: What's in Your Cockpit?

[Philip Kim]

Just the Randi Jo bag aside from brake levers and shifters for me

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[RBW] Re: What's in Your Cockpit?

[Garth]

 A brass duet IncrediBell . About the only one's I ring it "at" is the 
horses and cows I say hi too along my way.  I have never been fond of 
things that tell me speed or distance on a bike. To "live in the moment" 
has weird implication, as if what, there is something else beside now ?  
It's always and only now no matter what a clock looks like, and always and 
only here no matter what here looks like, so what's to keep track of ?  A 
clock is but infinite faces of now, our environment the infinity of here. 

  The path to some-where and the road to no-where are the same one place, 
here ! 

  Smile, Life is Fun :) 

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Re: [RBW] Re: What's in Your Cockpit?

[Addison Wilhite]

I no longer have this specific setup for my Allrounder but I did post about
it here:

http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com/2011/09/bicycle-cockpit.html

Here is the most recent version with albatross and deerhead shifters:

http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com/2016/04/rivendell-as-nature-and-god-intended.html

Best,


Addison Wilhite, M.A.

Academy of Arts, Careers and Technology 

*“Blazing the Trail to College and Career Success”*

Educator: Professional Portfolio 

Blogger: Reno Rambler 




On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 5:33 AM, Garth  wrote:

>
>  A brass duet IncrediBell . About the only one's I ring it "at" is the
> horses and cows I say hi too along my way.  I have never been fond of
> things that tell me speed or distance on a bike. To "live in the moment"
> has weird implication, as if what, there is something else beside now ?
> It's always and only now no matter what a clock looks like, and always and
> only here no matter what here looks like, so what's to keep track of ?  A
> clock is but infinite faces of now, our environment the infinity of here.
>
>   The path to some-where and the road to no-where are the same one place,
> here !
>
>   Smile, Life is Fun :)
>
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[RBW] What's in Your Cockpit?

[RichS]

Eric, nice suggestion for a topic. Thanks!
My Hunq Gray Atlantis: Nitto - Noodles, stem, F15 bag holder supporting a Riv 
boxy handlebar bag (fantastic!), 
maroon bar tape, twine, brass bell, non-aero brake levers, Silver bar ends. No 
electronics. Headlight attached to a Gino mount on the left fork.

Best,
Richard

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Re: [RBW] Leah's Bicycle Bus! (and question)

[René Sterental]

Wow!!! Heat stroke and babysitting that ill-equipped girl who In spitenif
everything made it even though she walked. Needless to say, bring more
water and don't let it happen again. Luckily the kids didn't have such a
close call.

She'll either decide she can make it happen and get a better bike or will
give up. Hopefully you can inspire her.

Aren't there some items you can wet with water that can keep you cool,
especially wearing them around the neck? I forgot the name...

Regardless the new muscles the bar is working, do you feel you need to
change the height of the bar? Is it lowered all the way? A little
experimentation might pay off.

Rode to work this morning. Forgot my bottle of water and it was a flat 15.5
miles @ 57F. Dry throat... And thinking of your bus! 👏👍😎

Keep it up and laugh at those stuck in the traffic!!!

René

On Monday, August 29, 2016, LeahFoy  wrote:

> René, ooh, I LOVE the bars. They do let me sit up nice and high, and
> unless on a steep climb, I rarely think about them, which, like saddles,
> means they're great. I got Riv's new long, skinny cork grips! I watched the
> twining video 100 times and finally got what Mark was doing there. I just
> kept thinking, "Leah, you can braid hair French, Dutch, upside down,
> standing on your HEAD; you can figure this out!" And so I did. Then I
> shellacked it. I'm super good at shellacking. And to prove it, I did it
> four times. Then I noticed my husband's Clem over there and attacked it
> with a fresh coat, too. I looked around for more stuff to shellac but there
> was nothing, so reluctantly I put imy brush away. (Side note: do you all
> think it's spelled "shellac" as a noun but "shellack" as a verb? It looks
> right to me.) The bars have 3 quirks: 1. They make the bike want to tip
> over more easily. 2. I have caught myself veering off a bit and it was not
> a quick an easy correction. It scared me a bit. 3. The width works totally
> different muscles on a climb. My triceps and trapezius muscles are working.
> Fine with me.
>
> But I digress.
>
> The Ride Home. Well, you all didn't pray for me because it was AWFUL. It
> was hot. Hot, hot, hot. Sweltering, stifling, oppressive heat, with nary a
> cloud in the sky for help. I arrived early because one of my quirks is a
> continual fear of being late. So, there I stood. In triple digit heat with
> no shade. Like a fool. I finally collected my 3 charges, only to have one
> say he forgot his Hydroflask and would be right back. We stood there
> forever. He comes back with no Hydroflask. Alright, I guess I'm sharing my
> water. The boys looked a little wilted at the start, but the girl, T, was
> just about done in by the second block. I kept promising it would get
> better as the weather cools and her muscles adapt. But she insisted on
> walking most of that mile-long hill. I had to wear my little guy's
> backpack, and haul my 5th grader's heavy beast of a pack in my basket. I
> shoved some of T's notebooks in my saddlesack to lighten her load. She had
> no kickstand, so I had to hold her bike at water breaks, while fighting to
> keep mine from toppling with its huge front load. Something was wrong and
> she couldn't shift to an easier gear. She had her enormous backpack on her
> back, and it was way too much. The boys' style was severely cramped by all
> the waiting, but they have kind hearts, so wait they did without complaint.
> She walked a lot. Slowly. I waited a lot. The boys found shade a ways up
> ahead and laid on the sidewalk like homeless kids. Not wanting to leave her
> too far behind, I stood in the blazing sun while she plodded along, and
> suddenly strange things started happening to me. As I poured sweat (highly
> uncharacteristic), I noticed my lips had gone completely, uncomfortably
> dry. I got goosebumps - as if I was becoming cold. I started to get an
> impending sense of doom, like I might not make the rest of this darn climb,
> and I began wracking my brain to remember the signs of heat exhaustion/heat
> stroke. I was past the point of feeling like water was helpful. I had very
> little left in me. Near the end, I sent the boys ahead so at least they
> could get home and get cool.
>
> I honestly don't know how, but we all made it. I dropped T off, unloaded
> my bike, got inside, laid on cool tile and ate a lime fruit bar and drank
> water. I could have wrung the sweat out of my shirt. The boys and I jumped
> in the pool and were good as new. T has decided she no longer wants to do
> the ride. Her mother REALLY wants her to do the ride. She wants to practice
> with her this weekend and get her a front basket. I said if that doesn't
> work, I had a new bike suggestion. "Anything that would help!" she said. I
> think an Islabike in her size with the rack, which holds 39 lbs and Ortlieb
> panniers would work. And it's light and she can even have a kickstand. I
> sent the info and we'll see. The mom believes T is being lazy (I don't
> think so) but she's from South Africa, 

Re: [RBW] Leah's Bicycle Bus! (and question)

[Ryan Fleming]

Well...I was certainly thinking of you...I cannot imagine climbing in that 
100F heat. I hope you and your charges are recovered fully. Heatstroke sure 
can happen quick as a wink. Are these Bosco bars you are using?

Take care and good luck!

On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 12:58:08 AM UTC-5, LeahFoy wrote:
>
> René, ooh, I LOVE the bars. They do let me sit up nice and high, and 
> unless on a steep climb, I rarely think about them, which, like saddles, 
> means they're great. I got Riv's new long, skinny cork grips! I watched the 
> twining video 100 times and finally got what Mark was doing there. I just 
> kept thinking, "Leah, you can braid hair French, Dutch, upside down, 
> standing on your HEAD; you can figure this out!" And so I did. Then I 
> shellacked it. I'm super good at shellacking. And to prove it, I did it 
> four times. Then I noticed my husband's Clem over there and attacked it 
> with a fresh coat, too. I looked around for more stuff to shellac but there 
> was nothing, so reluctantly I put imy brush away. (Side note: do you all 
> think it's spelled "shellac" as a noun but "shellack" as a verb? It looks 
> right to me.) The bars have 3 quirks: 1. They make the bike want to tip 
> over more easily. 2. I have caught myself veering off a bit and it was not 
> a quick an easy correction. It scared me a bit. 3. The width works totally 
> different muscles on a climb. My triceps and trapezius muscles are working. 
> Fine with me. 
>
> But I digress. 
>
> The Ride Home. Well, you all didn't pray for me because it was AWFUL. It 
> was hot. Hot, hot, hot. Sweltering, stifling, oppressive heat, with nary a 
> cloud in the sky for help. I arrived early because one of my quirks is a 
> continual fear of being late. So, there I stood. In triple digit heat with 
> no shade. Like a fool. I finally collected my 3 charges, only to have one 
> say he forgot his Hydroflask and would be right back. We stood there 
> forever. He comes back with no Hydroflask. Alright, I guess I'm sharing my 
> water. The boys looked a little wilted at the start, but the girl, T, was 
> just about done in by the second block. I kept promising it would get 
> better as the weather cools and her muscles adapt. But she insisted on 
> walking most of that mile-long hill. I had to wear my little guy's 
> backpack, and haul my 5th grader's heavy beast of a pack in my basket. I 
> shoved some of T's notebooks in my saddlesack to lighten her load. She had 
> no kickstand, so I had to hold her bike at water breaks, while fighting to 
> keep mine from toppling with its huge front load. Something was wrong and 
> she couldn't shift to an easier gear. She had her enormous backpack on her 
> back, and it was way too much. The boys' style was severely cramped by all 
> the waiting, but they have kind hearts, so wait they did without complaint. 
> She walked a lot. Slowly. I waited a lot. The boys found shade a ways up 
> ahead and laid on the sidewalk like homeless kids. Not wanting to leave her 
> too far behind, I stood in the blazing sun while she plodded along, and 
> suddenly strange things started happening to me. As I poured sweat (highly 
> uncharacteristic), I noticed my lips had gone completely, uncomfortably 
> dry. I got goosebumps - as if I was becoming cold. I started to get an 
> impending sense of doom, like I might not make the rest of this darn climb, 
> and I began wracking my brain to remember the signs of heat exhaustion/heat 
> stroke. I was past the point of feeling like water was helpful. I had very 
> little left in me. Near the end, I sent the boys ahead so at least they 
> could get home and get cool. 
>
> I honestly don't know how, but we all made it. I dropped T off, unloaded 
> my bike, got inside, laid on cool tile and ate a lime fruit bar and drank 
> water. I could have wrung the sweat out of my shirt. The boys and I jumped 
> in the pool and were good as new. T has decided she no longer wants to do 
> the ride. Her mother REALLY wants her to do the ride. She wants to practice 
> with her this weekend and get her a front basket. I said if that doesn't 
> work, I had a new bike suggestion. "Anything that would help!" she said. I 
> think an Islabike in her size with the rack, which holds 39 lbs and Ortlieb 
> panniers would work. And it's light and she can even have a kickstand. I 
> sent the info and we'll see. The mom believes T is being lazy (I don't 
> think so) but she's from South Africa, and maybe in that country this is 
> not much to ask of a South African child. American kids, on the other 
> hand...well, they were all surely pointing and laughing at us from the back 
> seats of their air-conditioned motherships. 
>
> René, sorry you missed out on cycling to school. I envy your kids' flat 
> commute! Thank you for my new bars. I'll have great triceps, thanks to them!

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Re: [RBW] Leah's Bicycle Bus! (and question)

[Deacon Patrick]

I know you are joking but ... Oh? If discomfort and challenge is a sign no 
one is praying for us than our God is too small. Grin.  I am thankful 
everyone got home safe and has the amazing opportunity to learn from 
discomfort and challenge. All part of the adventure. Often the opportunity 
to grow IS the answer to prayer. Grin. 

With abandon,
Patrick

On Monday, August 29, 2016 at 11:58:08 PM UTC-6, LeahFoy wrote:
>
> Well, you all didn't pray for me because it was AWFUL. 

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[RBW] Re: Anyone tried the mod174 drop bar from Nitto?

[John M]

Thanks Irving.  I sent you a PM as well. 

Those 151s look like they have a nice shape, but almost no flare at the 
drops.  I'd love to find a bar with the flat ramps of the Noodle, compact 
dimensions and some flare at the drops.  The Salsa Cowbell fits the bill, 
but is strictly 31.8 clamp diameter.




On Monday, August 29, 2016 at 8:03:15 PM UTC-6, John M wrote:
>
>
> I'm looking for drop handlebars for my Hunqapillar and stumbled onto this 
> bar from Fairweather in Japan.  It's a modified Nitto Noodle with shorter 
> reach and drop:
>
> Fairweather Allroad 
>
> As far as I know, it is only available from Fairweather in Japan, so I'm 
> wondering if someone here might have taken the plunge and tried it out. 
>  Any reviews?
>
>
> Ideally I'd love to find something like the Ritchey EvoMax 
>  but with 26.0 clamp 
> diameter.  Does such a bar exist?
>
>
>
> thanks,
> john
>

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Re: [RBW] Anyone tried the mod174 drop bar from Nitto?

[Jim Bronson]

How much more is the reach on a Noodle?

On Aug 29, 2016 21:03, "John M"  wrote:

>
> I'm looking for drop handlebars for my Hunqapillar and stumbled onto this
> bar from Fairweather in Japan.  It's a modified Nitto Noodle with shorter
> reach and drop:
>
> Fairweather Allroad 
>
> As far as I know, it is only available from Fairweather in Japan, so I'm
> wondering if someone here might have taken the plunge and tried it out.
> Any reviews?
>
>
> Ideally I'd love to find something like the Ritchey EvoMax
>  but with 26.0 clamp
> diameter.  Does such a bar exist?
>
>
>
> thanks,
> john
>
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Re: [RBW] Anyone tried the mod174 drop bar from Nitto?

[Tim Gavin]

The Nitto B135 Randonneur bars have relatively compact dimensions (short
reach), and some flare to the drops.

But, they only come in one or two widths, and some folks don't like the
upward angle of the tops near the stem.

On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 10:40 AM, Jim Bronson  wrote:

> How much more is the reach on a Noodle?
>
> On Aug 29, 2016 21:03, "John M"  wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm looking for drop handlebars for my Hunqapillar and stumbled onto this
>> bar from Fairweather in Japan.  It's a modified Nitto Noodle with shorter
>> reach and drop:
>>
>> Fairweather Allroad 
>>
>> As far as I know, it is only available from Fairweather in Japan, so I'm
>> wondering if someone here might have taken the plunge and tried it out.
>> Any reviews?
>>
>>
>> Ideally I'd love to find something like the Ritchey EvoMax
>>  but with 26.0 clamp
>> diameter.  Does such a bar exist?
>>
>>
>>
>> thanks,
>> john
>>
>> --
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[RBW] Re: What pressures do you run your Ruffy Tuffy 28's at?

['Mojo' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Tire pressure is a function of your bike-system+motor weight. Mine is 
around 30-35+185-190 or 220lbs. Using Frank Berto's tire pressure chart I 
pump my 28mm rear tire up to 90-95 and front 80-85 then don't refill for 
several weeks. I seem to feel the need to refill around 75psi.

I have found the Ruffy Tuffys to ride quite harsh, so much so that I no 
longer ride them. I have some Ruffy Tuffy Speedblends I should sell. 

I am near the point in my riding and viewpoint where 28mm are just too 
narrow. Over the last decade I have culled my herd of too-small frames, 
tubular tires/wheels, road-style cleats, and perhaps soon bikes with less 
then 32-35mm tires. My how times change!



On Monday, August 29, 2016 at 5:00:12 PM UTC-6, Lungimsam wrote:
>
> Also, how does the ride compare to other 28's you have ridden?
>
> Just wundrin'. Thanks for the info.
>

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Re: [RBW] What's in Your Cockpit?

[Eric Norris]

Scott:

I usually don’t carry the Narrative Clip, which I bought mostly because I’m 
fascinated by the technology—a camera about the size of a matchbook that takes 
hi-res photos and 1080P video. The Clip takes a photo at intervals you set as 
long as it’s not laid face-down; viewed in the iPhone app, the images turn into 
a time-lapse movie (curiously, they don’t provide for exporting the movies … 
yet).

If I’m intent on filming a ride, I’ll carry another video camera in a jersey 
pocket or in my handlebar bag for handheld footage.

--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com
www.campyonly.com
campyonlyguy.blogspot.com

> On Aug 30, 2016, at 5:17 AM, Scott Henry  wrote:
> 
> Eric,
> I'm curious about the go-pro and the narrative.  Why the duplication?   More 
> curious as a photographer, I'm fairly sterile regarding my cockpit.   Nothing 
> on my bars that isn't required.Though one does have some touring/cross 
> levers.  Other than that its just tape over two layers of foam rubber.  
> 
> I have a battery light that normally stays in the bag, my one dyno bike has 
> the headlight mounted front low on the rack.Cell phone goes in the bag 
> and I buy a new computer every few years, but take them back off even before 
> the batteries go dead.   
> 
> Its strange thinking about it, I love gadgets in my normal life, but have 
> moved away from them on the bike
> Go figure. 
> 
> Curious about those dueling cameras though.
> Scott
> 
> 
> On Aug 29, 2016 8:37 PM, "Eric Norris"  > wrote:
> My Riv Road: Steel, leather, friction shifting ... and a bunch of electronic 
> gear. Even the headlights are electronic. 
> 
> What's in *your* cockpit?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> –Eric N
> 
> 
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Re: [RBW] Anyone tried the mod174 drop bar from Nitto?

[Irving]

Nitto MOD176 (Noodle) = Reach 110mm, Drop 130mm

Nitto MOD174 = Reach 75mm, Drop 125mm

On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 8:40:22 AM UTC-7, Jim Bronson wrote:
>
> How much more is the reach on a Noodle?
>
> On Aug 29, 2016 21:03, "John M" > wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm looking for drop handlebars for my Hunqapillar and stumbled onto this 
>> bar from Fairweather in Japan.  It's a modified Nitto Noodle with shorter 
>> reach and drop:
>>
>> Fairweather Allroad 
>>
>> As far as I know, it is only available from Fairweather in Japan, so I'm 
>> wondering if someone here might have taken the plunge and tried it out.  
>> Any reviews?
>>
>>
>> Ideally I'd love to find something like the Ritchey EvoMax 
>>  but with 26.0 clamp 
>> diameter.  Does such a bar exist?
>>
>>
>>
>> thanks,
>> john
>>
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[RBW] Re: What's in Your Cockpit?

['Mojo' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Eric, like you my headlights have migrated down to near tire height. 
Cyclometers have mostly gone away and I have not moved into the GPS world. 
My rides are now mostly number free (except an occasional timed climb up 
the local four mile hill) and I love it. My Jones bar bikes both have a bag 
 that holds arm 
coolers (this time of year), cell phone, snack, pepper spray.

On Monday, August 29, 2016 at 6:37:23 PM UTC-6, Eric Norris wrote:
>
> My Riv Road: Steel, leather, friction shifting ... and a bunch of 
> electronic gear. Even the headlights are electronic. 
>
> What's in *your* cockpit?
>
>
>
> –Eric N
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: What pressures do you run your Ruffy Tuffy 28's at?

[Tim Gavin]

I put Ruffy Tuffy's on a bike I re-habbed for my daughter:  '83 Schwinn
Super Sport 
(full lugged Tange #2 frame), converted to upright bars by the previous
owner.  I gave it a new chain, new cables, a triple touring crank, and
thumbshifters (6s index from my '88 KOM).

I pump them to ~70 psi front, ~80 psi rear.  I'd add 10-15 psi if I were
riding these tires; she weighs maybe #100 where I weigh #220.

I briefly rode the Ruffy Tuffy's on my Riv Road, before converting to 650b
wheels.  The Ruffy Tuffy's rode OK, but didn't feel supple compared to the
Grand Bois Cerf tires on my gofast.

On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 10:57 AM, 'Mojo' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Tire pressure is a function of your bike-system+motor weight. Mine is
> around 30-35+185-190 or 220lbs. Using Frank Berto's tire pressure chart I
> pump my 28mm rear tire up to 90-95 and front 80-85 then don't refill for
> several weeks. I seem to feel the need to refill around 75psi.
>
> I have found the Ruffy Tuffys to ride quite harsh, so much so that I no
> longer ride them. I have some Ruffy Tuffy Speedblends I should sell.
>
> I am near the point in my riding and viewpoint where 28mm are just too
> narrow. Over the last decade I have culled my herd of too-small frames,
> tubular tires/wheels, road-style cleats, and perhaps soon bikes with less
> then 32-35mm tires. My how times change!
>
>
>
>
> On Monday, August 29, 2016 at 5:00:12 PM UTC-6, Lungimsam wrote:
>>
>> Also, how does the ride compare to other 28's you have ridden?
>>
>> Just wundrin'. Thanks for the info.
>>
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[RBW] PSA: RIVENDELL SIMPLEONE Frameset 60 CM on e-bay

[JohnS]

Not mine, just passing it along to those who might be interested, looks 
awesome!

NOS Rivendell Simpleone frameset. Single- speed. 60 cm. Dark green. Auction 
is for frame, fork, headset, bottom bracket and seat post. I have had this 
in cool,dark and dry storage for a few years now. Only taken out of box 
today for pictures. Immaculate and pristine-no issues whatsoever. Shipped 
to the lower 48 only. Thanks!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/172318893765?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

JohnS

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[RBW] Re: ISO: Cheap crankset

[Belopsky]

Thanks to all - a crank has been found

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[RBW] Re: What's in Your Cockpit?

[Marc Irwin]

Both Riv's have Bosco's with Tektro Lever and interrupter levers, friction 
shift barcons on the Hunq, stem shifters on Sam.  Both have DiaCompe Stoker 
knobs in a strategic place now, a German Mirror and I have a BM Eyc on the 
Hunq but that's it.  I use VO Leather although I tried the harlequin wrap 
on the Hunq once. 





Marc
>

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[RBW] Re: Fantasyland Daydream: Ti "Riv"

[Lungimsam]

I know and he wrote that for riding in Mexico area he prefers that bike over 
his others. Shocked that he found something he likes better than the Herse for 
a given purpose.

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Re: [RBW] Anyone tried the mod174 drop bar from Nitto?

[Steve Palincsar]

On 08/30/2016 12:02 PM, Irving wrote:

Nitto MOD176 (Noodle) = Reach 110mm, Drop 130mm


That's not correct.  The Noodle is the 177.  The 176 aka "Dream Bar" is 
a standard Maes bar.  Here's Riv's listing for the "Noodle" 
http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/hb1.htm and for the sake of comparison 
here is a page on the 176: 
https://www.retro-gression.com/products/nitto-m176-dream-handlebar and 
here is a page on the 174: 
http://www.santucci-cycles.com/product/fairweather-nitto-mod-174-compact-drop-handlebar/?v=7516fd43adaa



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[RBW] Re: Cantilever brake question...

[Brian Campbell]

This is why I no longer use cantilever brakes. V-brakes work and have 
allowed me to stop futzing. I know the purists are taught to hate V-bakes 
because they don't "look" the part, or you are lacking in mechanical skills 
if you don't enjoy spending time with them.In the real world they work 
better, are easier to set up, easier to maintain and easier to service 
(especially on the road if need be). I recently set up a set of Shimano SLR 
mid profile canti-s on a 1983 Schwinn Voyageur SP and while they work ok, I 
was reminded that they are a good bit more finicky ( and the Shimano brakes 
are pretty well designed and easy to set up as far a canti's go) and 
require more time that V-Brakes. 

I say go with the mini-motos' (if possible) and don't look back. You will 
more than likely not have think about whether or not the brakes have been 
"optimized" ever again..

FWIW, I used a set of Shimano XT V- brakes (silver) when I built up the 
Hunqapillar frame you provided me (I am keeping it BTW, figured out my fit 
issue)and the brakes were set up at the time of the build and have needed 
nothing since. More powerful that any canti brake I have ever used. 

On Saturday, August 27, 2016 at 2:00:24 PM UTC-4, René wrote:

> Here is the source of my original confusion; extracted from the article 
> linked by Alan:
> "*Straddle cable and yoke position*
> To get the most out of your canti brake, it's crucial to get the straddle 
> cable carrier (yoke) installed in the right position based on the type of 
> brakes you are running.  Simply put, you want to try to achieve a 90 degree 
> angle between the pivot bolt/cable anchor/straddle cable.  The angle formed 
> if you drew a line from the pivot bolt to the cable anchor on the arm and 
> along the straddle cable should be around 90 degrees.  This gives you a 
> good combination of modulation and power.  It's possible to alter this 
> angle to get more power, giving up modulation.  A rough rule of thumb is 
> low-profile brakes require a low straddle cable carrier position, wide 
> profile brakes require a high straddle cable carrier position.  Going even 
> lower on a low-profile brake will give you more power, but the modulation 
> will be lower and the brake pads will need to be set closer to the rim.  
> This position also will feel a little mushy at the lever.  Most lower 
> profile canti brakes I see have the straddle carrier set too high.  This 
> might feel good at the lever; solid feeling, you might say, but when you 
> need to hit the brakes you won't have the power needed to stop."
>
> See the sentence that starts with "A rough rule of thumb..."
>
> So I checked my Neo-Retro yoke position; it wasn't too high, limited by 
> the crown fork cable hanger, probably around 1 - 1.5" above the fender 
> (recent photo: https://flic.kr/p/Huku4A). Lowered it to almost touching 
> the fender, just 5 - 6mm away, and though the feeling increased slightly, 
> the braking is still less powerful than the rear Touring brake.
>
> Next step is to remove the rack (hassle!) to install the Touring brakes 
> and check if the MiniMoto fit or not.
>
> Stay tuned...
>
> René 
>
> On Thursday, August 25, 2016, adam leibow  > wrote:
>
>>
>> http://blackmountaincycles.blogspot.com/2013/03/get-most-out-of-your-canit-brake.html
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 24, 2016 at 4:49:20 PM UTC-7, René wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I've had Paul Cantis on my Atlantis (and Hunqapillar) since I acquired 
>>> them. Paul Centerpulls on the Homer after using the original Silver brakes, 
>>> and now will have Compass brazed Centerpulls on the custom. I've also read 
>>> everything I could find, including BQ's excellent volume on brakes to 
>>> understand how to adjust these brakes properly.
>>>
>>> The question is regarding the brakes on my Atlantis. On the front it has 
>>> the Paul Neo-Retro and on the rear the Paul Tourer. Per my education, the 
>>> Neo-Retro needs the cable yoke to be as high as possible and the Tourer as 
>>> low as possible for optimal function.
>>>
>>> When braking, the rear Tourer brake which by design should be less 
>>> powerful, feels excellent, both in braking power and modulation. In fact, I 
>>> can brake really well with it alone, and use it primarily to slow down 
>>> prior to turns.
>>>
>>> Braking with the front Neo-Retro feels as if it has very little power 
>>> and is very hard to stop the bike unless you press really hard. It doesn't 
>>> feel as if it modulates, it's just that it's hard to stop the wheel.
>>>
>>> My experience before was usually the opposite, where the rear brake 
>>> wasn't enough on its own, but you had to be careful with the front.
>>>
>>> I changed the pads on both brakes to see if that made a difference, but 
>>> it didn't. 
>>>
>>> Is there anything I'm missing? Is that just how these brakes work? I'm 
>>> tempted to switch the front Neo-Retros for a set of Tourer brakes that were 
>>> in the rear of my Hunqapillar, but am concerned I wo

Re: [RBW] Leah's Bicycle Bus! (and question)

[Evan E.]

Leah,

Yikes! Your latest installment is harrowing and funny, rich in detail and 
awesome. 

Please post a new story daily. Leah's Bus Blog!

Evan E.




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[RBW] Re: Cantilever brake question...

[ian m]

What is the max tire size the mini-motos will fit?

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[RBW] Re: Cantilever brake question...

[Daniel Jackson]

Yeah. Clearance is the crux of it all. If you could accommodate 50mm tires with 
fenders under a v brake, many of us who use cantis might be inclined to try out 
some V options. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cantilever brake question...

[Steve Palincsar]

What do you do to resolve road brake lever cable pull incompatibilities?


On 08/30/2016 04:04 PM, Daniel Jackson wrote:

Yeah. Clearance is the crux of it all. If you could accommodate 50mm tires with 
fenders under a v brake, many of us who use cantis might be inclined to try out 
some V options.



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Re: [RBW] Anyone tried the mod174 drop bar from Nitto?

[Irving]

Whoops, Steve is right.

On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 11:29:27 AM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>
>
> On 08/30/2016 12:02 PM, Irving wrote: 
> > Nitto MOD176 (Noodle) = Reach 110mm, Drop 130mm 
>
> That's not correct.  The Noodle is the 177.  The 176 aka "Dream Bar" is 
> a standard Maes bar.  Here's Riv's listing for the "Noodle" 
> http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/hb1.htm and for the sake of comparison 
> here is a page on the 176: 
> https://www.retro-gression.com/products/nitto-m176-dream-handlebar 
> 
>  
> and 
> here is a page on the 174: 
>
> http://www.santucci-cycles.com/product/fairweather-nitto-mod-174-compact-drop-handlebar/?v=7516fd43adaa
>  
> 
>  
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Cantilever brake question...

[Bill Lindsay]

Ian asked what is the max tire size that Paul Mini-Motos will fit.  

The answer depends on where your frame builder put the posts, but it is 
normal to run them with monster cross tires 700x45, without fenders.  With 
a fender and "good" fender clearance, maybe a 700x32.  If you don't need 
"good" fender clearance, maybe a 700x38.  YMMV depending on where your 
posts are.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 12:36:12 PM UTC-7, ian m wrote:
>
> What is the max tire size the mini-motos will fit?

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cantilever brake question...

[Jay Lonner]

I would be tempted to try Motolites if I could find long-pull reverse brake 
levers. Paul stopped making them a few years ago, and I don't know of any other 
models out there. I'd love to buy a used pair of the Paul levers if any list 
members have a set for sale. Or maybe someone can point me in the direction of 
other long-pull reverse levers? I don't want to mess around with Travel Agents 
and the like. 

Jay Lonner
Bellingham, WA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cantilever brake question...

[Brian Campbell]

Tektro/Cane Creek and Dia Compe make road bar levers for v-brakes. There 
are no brifters that I am aware of but I have used the Dia Compe 287v with 
shimano bar ends for shifting. I don't like things like travel agents etc 
and avoid them.

On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 4:05:54 PM UTC-4, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> What do you do to resolve road brake lever cable pull incompatibilities? 
>
>
> On 08/30/2016 04:04 PM, Daniel Jackson wrote: 
> > Yeah. Clearance is the crux of it all. If you could accommodate 50mm 
> tires with fenders under a v brake, many of us who use cantis might be 
> inclined to try out some V options. 
> > 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Cantilever brake question...

[Brian Campbell]

It will work on my Hunqapillar but I think the brake arm length is a factor 
to consider as well. I have had good luck with the older, Shimano XT 
v-brakes.

On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 4:04:52 PM UTC-4, Daniel Jackson wrote:
>
> Yeah. Clearance is the crux of it all. If you could accommodate 50mm tires 
> with fenders under a v brake, many of us who use cantis might be inclined 
> to try out some V options. 

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[RBW] Re: Cantilever brake question...

[RoadieRyan]

I started out with Cani's (Avids) on my Handsome Devil but quickly grew 
frustrated and make the switch to V Brakes and they have worked great for 4 
years.  Mini Motos huh? nice tip -if the Cantis on my newly acquired 
vintage touring Schwinn Passage don't work out (Dia Compe 960s)  I may give 
the Mini Motos a try and I won't need new brake levers.

On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 11:40:16 AM UTC-7, Brian Campbell wrote:
>
> This is why I no longer use cantilever brakes. V-brakes work and have 
> allowed me to stop futzing. I know the purists are taught to hate V-bakes 
> because they don't "look" the part, or you are lacking in mechanical skills 
> if you don't enjoy spending time with them.In the real world they work 
> better, are easier to set up, easier to maintain and easier to service 
> (especially on the road if need be). I recently set up a set of Shimano SLR 
> mid profile canti-s on a 1983 Schwinn Voyageur SP and while they work ok, I 
> was reminded that they are a good bit more finicky ( and the Shimano brakes 
> are pretty well designed and easy to set up as far a canti's go) and 
> require more time that V-Brakes. 
>
> I say go with the mini-motos' (if possible) and don't look back. You will 
> more than likely not have think about whether or not the brakes have been 
> "optimized" ever again..
>
> FWIW, I used a set of Shimano XT V- brakes (silver) when I built up the 
> Hunqapillar frame you provided me (I am keeping it BTW, figured out my fit 
> issue)and the brakes were set up at the time of the build and have needed 
> nothing since. More powerful that any canti brake I have ever used. 
>
> On Saturday, August 27, 2016 at 2:00:24 PM UTC-4, René wrote:
>
>> Here is the source of my original confusion; extracted from the article 
>> linked by Alan:
>> "*Straddle cable and yoke position*
>> To get the most out of your canti brake, it's crucial to get the straddle 
>> cable carrier (yoke) installed in the right position based on the type of 
>> brakes you are running.  Simply put, you want to try to achieve a 90 degree 
>> angle between the pivot bolt/cable anchor/straddle cable.  The angle formed 
>> if you drew a line from the pivot bolt to the cable anchor on the arm and 
>> along the straddle cable should be around 90 degrees.  This gives you a 
>> good combination of modulation and power.  It's possible to alter this 
>> angle to get more power, giving up modulation.  A rough rule of thumb is 
>> low-profile brakes require a low straddle cable carrier position, wide 
>> profile brakes require a high straddle cable carrier position.  Going even 
>> lower on a low-profile brake will give you more power, but the modulation 
>> will be lower and the brake pads will need to be set closer to the rim.  
>> This position also will feel a little mushy at the lever.  Most lower 
>> profile canti brakes I see have the straddle carrier set too high.  This 
>> might feel good at the lever; solid feeling, you might say, but when you 
>> need to hit the brakes you won't have the power needed to stop."
>>
>> See the sentence that starts with "A rough rule of thumb..."
>>
>> So I checked my Neo-Retro yoke position; it wasn't too high, limited by 
>> the crown fork cable hanger, probably around 1 - 1.5" above the fender 
>> (recent photo: https://flic.kr/p/Huku4A). Lowered it to almost touching 
>> the fender, just 5 - 6mm away, and though the feeling increased slightly, 
>> the braking is still less powerful than the rear Touring brake.
>>
>> Next step is to remove the rack (hassle!) to install the Touring brakes 
>> and check if the MiniMoto fit or not.
>>
>> Stay tuned...
>>
>> René 
>>
>> On Thursday, August 25, 2016, adam leibow  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> http://blackmountaincycles.blogspot.com/2013/03/get-most-out-of-your-canit-brake.html
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, August 24, 2016 at 4:49:20 PM UTC-7, René wrote:

 Hi all,

 I've had Paul Cantis on my Atlantis (and Hunqapillar) since I acquired 
 them. Paul Centerpulls on the Homer after using the original Silver 
 brakes, 
 and now will have Compass brazed Centerpulls on the custom. I've also read 
 everything I could find, including BQ's excellent volume on brakes to 
 understand how to adjust these brakes properly.

 The question is regarding the brakes on my Atlantis. On the front it 
 has the Paul Neo-Retro and on the rear the Paul Tourer. Per my education, 
 the Neo-Retro needs the cable yoke to be as high as possible and the 
 Tourer 
 as low as possible for optimal function.

 When braking, the rear Tourer brake which by design should be less 
 powerful, feels excellent, both in braking power and modulation. In fact, 
 I 
 can brake really well with it alone, and use it primarily to slow down 
 prior to turns.

 Braking with the front Neo-Retro feels as if it has very little power 
 and is very hard to stop the bike unless you press really hard. It

[RBW] Re: Cantilever brake question...

[Bill Lindsay]

Roadie Ryan

You probably should not count on any contemporary brakes working on your 
schwinn passage.  Canti-post placement for TINY cantilevers like the Dia 
Compe 960 is far different from canti-post placement for modern brakes.  In 
fact if you do an image search on Google for "dia compe 960" a lot of what 
you will see is photos of people trying to 'update' their brakes from dia 
compe 960 and failing.  I think those tiny cantilevers are super cute.  Use 
new salmon pads and do your best.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 3:55:34 PM UTC-7, RoadieRyan wrote:
>
> I started out with Cani's (Avids) on my Handsome Devil but quickly grew 
> frustrated and make the switch to V Brakes and they have worked great for 4 
> years.  Mini Motos huh? nice tip -if the Cantis on my newly acquired 
> vintage touring Schwinn Passage don't work out (Dia Compe 960s)  I may give 
> the Mini Motos a try and I won't need new brake levers.
>

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[RBW] Re: Cantilever brake question...

[Brian Campbell]

You can use the Shimano SLR mid-profile cantis  on that Passage w/ Salmon 
Kool Stops and greatly improve the braking  IMHO. I have done it three 
separate times to 80's Schwinn touring bikes (Passage/Voyageur/Voyageur SP)

On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 7:17:41 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Roadie Ryan
>
> You probably should not count on any contemporary brakes working on your 
> schwinn passage.  Canti-post placement for TINY cantilevers like the Dia 
> Compe 960 is far different from canti-post placement for modern brakes.  In 
> fact if you do an image search on Google for "dia compe 960" a lot of what 
> you will see is photos of people trying to 'update' their brakes from dia 
> compe 960 and failing.  I think those tiny cantilevers are super cute.  Use 
> new salmon pads and do your best.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 3:55:34 PM UTC-7, RoadieRyan wrote:
>>
>> I started out with Cani's (Avids) on my Handsome Devil but quickly grew 
>> frustrated and make the switch to V Brakes and they have worked great for 4 
>> years.  Mini Motos huh? nice tip -if the Cantis on my newly acquired 
>> vintage touring Schwinn Passage don't work out (Dia Compe 960s)  I may give 
>> the Mini Motos a try and I won't need new brake levers.
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Cantilever brake question...

[Brian Campbell]

Looks like this1983 Voyageur SP. Fits 38mm  Compass Barlow Pass EL 
tires and fenders.











On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 7:58:25 PM UTC-4, Brian Campbell wrote:
>
> You can use the Shimano SLR mid-profile cantis  on that Passage w/ Salmon 
> Kool Stops and greatly improve the braking  IMHO. I have done it three 
> separate times to 80's Schwinn touring bikes (Passage/Voyageur/Voyageur SP)
>
> On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 7:17:41 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> Roadie Ryan
>>
>> You probably should not count on any contemporary brakes working on your 
>> schwinn passage.  Canti-post placement for TINY cantilevers like the Dia 
>> Compe 960 is far different from canti-post placement for modern brakes.  In 
>> fact if you do an image search on Google for "dia compe 960" a lot of what 
>> you will see is photos of people trying to 'update' their brakes from dia 
>> compe 960 and failing.  I think those tiny cantilevers are super cute.  Use 
>> new salmon pads and do your best.  
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 3:55:34 PM UTC-7, RoadieRyan wrote:
>>>
>>> I started out with Cani's (Avids) on my Handsome Devil but quickly grew 
>>> frustrated and make the switch to V Brakes and they have worked great for 4 
>>> years.  Mini Motos huh? nice tip -if the Cantis on my newly acquired 
>>> vintage touring Schwinn Passage don't work out (Dia Compe 960s)  I may give 
>>> the Mini Motos a try and I won't need new brake levers.
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Cantilever brake question...

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Terrible pic, but here is my Clementine with 2" (50mm) tires and fenders 
and V brakes (and, embarrassingly enough, sans brake cable cap--on the way!)


Gravel bike has a list of V-brake arm lengths:

http://www.gravelbike.com/v-brake-arm-lengths/

The Shimano Deore XT is supposed to be a nice brake, less than $60 for the 
pair and they come in at 107, one of the longer arm lengths on the list.










On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 4:04:52 PM UTC-4, Daniel Jackson wrote:
>
> Yeah. Clearance is the crux of it all. If you could accommodate 50mm tires 
> with fenders under a v brake, many of us who use cantis might be inclined 
> to try out some V options. 

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[RBW] Re: Cantilever brake question...

[Bill Lindsay]

Yes. Brian is right that you can just barely use late 80s brakes on your early 
80s bike.  When I said nothing contemporary I meant nothing you can buy new and 
certainly nothing v-brake 

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[RBW] Re: FS: 57cm Rivendell Romulus complete

[brianweee]

The ones on this bike are clinchers. 

On Friday, August 26, 2016 at 10:45:44 PM UTC-7, Thomas Welch wrote:
>
> Are EA90's clincher or tubular?
>
> On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 4:55:33 PM UTC-6, brianweee wrote:
>>
>> Hi all, selling my 57cm Rivendell Romulus for  $900 local (SF Bay area) 
>> or $1000 shipped.
>>
>> Link with more info on the bike: http://cyclofiend.com/rbw/romulus
>> /romflyer/01.html 
>>
>> I will be posting photos tomorrow morning when I can take photos of it. I 
>> think the headset could be either adjusted or may need a new headset. The 
>> price reflects that. 
>>
>> List of components:
>>
>> Nitto noodle 44cm hbar
>> Maroon cloth tape w/ twine finish
>> Nitto technomic 110 mm stem
>> Canecreek brake levers
>> Shimano/ tecktro mid reach brakes
>> Riv Silver down tube shifters
>> Tiagra front der
>> Dura ace rear der
>> Silver Sram rival crank w/ sugino 50/36 chain rings
>> GXP bb
>> Kmc chain
>> Shimano 9sd 11-30  cassette
>> EA90 wheels
>> Challenge strada Blanca 700x30c tires
>> Thompson elite seat post
>> Selle Italia SLR flow saddle
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cantilever brake question...

[Philip Kim]

Paul v brake levers specifically

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cantilever brake question...

[Philip Kim]

Jay I got v brake light levers pleas email me philipw...@gmail.com as I'm on 
mobile now

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[RBW] Re: FS: Quickbeam Suzue Rear Wheel $50

[cyclotourist]

Wheel has been sold, sorry to not post that earlier.

On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 6:38 PM, cyclotourist  wrote:

> Stock rear wheel from an orange-era 'Beam. Wheel, SS freewheel, and
> quick-release.
> $50 + actual shipping via bikeflights.com (should be no more than $30).
>
> Would love to partial trade for a Phil Wood q/r front hub in shiny
> condition.
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/28805959216/
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/28805961006
>
> --
> Cheers,
> David
>
> Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace
>
> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>



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Cheers,
David

Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace

"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal

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Re: [RBW] Leah's Bicycle Bus! (and question)

[Brian Campbell]

You could try this, as I did with my kids when they were smaller!




On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 3:19:22 PM UTC-4, Evan E. wrote:
>
> Leah,
>
> Yikes! Your latest installment is harrowing and funny, rich in detail and 
> awesome. 
>
> Please post a new story daily. Leah's Bus Blog!
>
> Evan E.
>
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Cantilever brake question...

[Brian Campbell]

True. These brakes also allow for  27" to 700c conversion pretty easily as 
well on most bike from this era.

On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 8:10:08 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Yes. Brian is right that you can just barely use late 80s brakes on your 
> early 80s bike.  When I said nothing contemporary I meant nothing you can 
> buy new and certainly nothing v-brake 

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[RBW] Re: What's in Your Cockpit?

[Brian Campbell]

Pretty Simple



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[RBW] Bridgestone MB6, Campy Daytona Crankset/BB, Tires

[Andrew Huston]

Bottom bracket sold. 

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Re: [RBW] Anyone tried the mod174 drop bar from Nitto?

[Lungimsam]

Maes as in same as the Maes Parallel on the Compass site?

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[RBW] Re: Cantilever brake question...

[Jeremy Till]

It may help to clarify a few things here, and define terms.  Braking 
"power" is a tricky term, but for the purposes of my post we could define 
it as amount of normal force applied by the brake pad to the rim.  This is 
dependent on the mechanical advantage of the braking system (brake, cables, 
and levers), the spring tension of the brakes, and the grip strength of the 
rider.  For the purposes of this discussion we will ignore secondary 
factors in braking such as cable stretch, housing compression, and brake 
pad friction.  

Mechanical advantage (or leverage) is likewise a tricky term.  It refers 
specifically to how much the braking system multiplies the force applied to 
the brake lever by the rider. Taken simplistically, therefore, it could be 
understood as the main determinant of power, as in "v-brakes are more 
powerful than cantis." However; mechanical advantage is not power for 
nothing; just like a simple lever, in order to taken advantage of leverage, 
we have to apply that power over a distance.  The brake lever travels 
farther than the brake pad over the course of the braking action.  The 
bigger the mechanical advantage of the system, the farther your fingers 
have to travel.  In the end, the power (remember, that's total braking 
force) of high mechanical advantage systems can be limited by the amount of 
travel the lever has between its resting point and bottoming out on the 
handlebar.  Since the brake pad is not moving very far, they also have the 
disadvantage of requiring the brake pads to be run very close to the rim, 
requiring exacting brake adjustment and wheel trueness.  

Low mechanical advantage systems, on the other hand, often are not limited 
by lever travel.  Since the leverage ratio is smaller, the total distance 
the brake lever has to travel is smaller, well within the range of most 
contemporary brake lever designs, even when adjusted for smaller reach.  It 
just means that the force you have to apply to the brake lever in order to 
achieve a given "power" (braking force) is larger than it would be with a 
higher mechanical advantage system.  In other words, it comes down to grip 
strength.  If you have plenty of grip strength and squeeze really hard, a 
low mechanical advantage system can let you achieve very high braking force 
without ever reaching the limits of your brake levers.  They also have the 
advantage of allowing the brake pads to run farther from the rim, so aren't 
as depending on exacting setup and perfectly true wheels.  
.
So in the end, it comes down to the particular rider: the dimensions of 
their hands, their grip strength, and their personal preferences.  If you 
are limited in grip strength, you would probably prefer a high mechanical 
advantage system.  However, given that most riders with lower grip strength 
also have smaller hands and have to limit the reach of their brake levers, 
this means that lever travel becomes the limiting factor in most high 
mechanical advantage systems.  While they multiply hand force more, they 
are limited by how far the brake lever can go before hitting the bar.  They 
have a limit beyond which you cannot physically brake anymore, even if you 
were stronger.   On the the other hand, folks with big hands and  a firm 
handshake can run a low mechanical advantage system, run their brake levers 
as far out as they'll go, and be just fine.  Since the're not limited by 
level travel, they harder they pull, the harder the brakes will press on 
the rim. 

What does this have to do with the braking components offered by Paul? 
 Well, here's the rub (pun intended): I'm fairly certain that the 
mid-profile Touring Canti has more mechanical advantage than the 
high-profile Neo-Retro.  Does that mean that they are absolutely more 
powerful than the Neo-Retros?  Not necessarily; they just create a system 
that is limited more by lever travel than the grip strength of the rider. 
 I have no doubt that a rider with a strong grip could squeeze tons of 
power out of a set of Neo-Retros, the type of fork-bending forces that Paul 
describes in their warning.  On the other hand, if you find that your 
braking force "hits a wall" with Neo-Retros, that you can't pull the lever 
any harder (and it is not bottoming out on the bar) and still aren't 
achieving adequate stopping power, then the higher mechanical advantage 
Touring Cantis might be right for you, both on the front and back.

Paul are amazing machinists and fabricators, who care about longevity and 
serviceability more than a lot of companies in the bike market.  They are 
not necessarily super original when it comes to design, however, especially 
of their brakes.  Pretty much all of their brakes are copies of other brake 
designs, except executed with top notch materials and attention to detail. 
 Paul readily admits that the design of the Neo-Retro was copied from old 
Mafac tandem cantilevers, which back in the pre-MTB days were probably some 
of the most powerful 

[RBW] Anyone riding the Indian Head 100 Century on Labor Day?

[Lungimsam]

In Indian Head, Maryland.

http://ohbike.org/century/

I hope to be there with my Bleriot or Rambouillet.

This is my report from last year if you are curious what it is like: 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/rbw-owners-bunch/gJPWltCIzqQ/wOtLARmNAgAJ;context-place=forum/rbw-owners-bunch

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Re: [RBW] Re: What pressures do you run your Ruffy Tuffy 28's at?

[James Chang]

I am around 165lbs and maybe another 25lbs for the bike and I run anywhere
around 75 ~ 90psi.  Not the fastest tire but they are pretty tough.

On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 12:22 AM, Tim Gavin 
wrote:

> I put Ruffy Tuffy's on a bike I re-habbed for my daughter:  '83 Schwinn
> Super Sport 
> (full lugged Tange #2 frame), converted to upright bars by the previous
> owner.  I gave it a new chain, new cables, a triple touring crank, and
> thumbshifters (6s index from my '88 KOM).
>
> I pump them to ~70 psi front, ~80 psi rear.  I'd add 10-15 psi if I were
> riding these tires; she weighs maybe #100 where I weigh #220.
>
> I briefly rode the Ruffy Tuffy's on my Riv Road, before converting to 650b
> wheels.  The Ruffy Tuffy's rode OK, but didn't feel supple compared to the
> Grand Bois Cerf tires on my gofast.
>
> On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 10:57 AM, 'Mojo' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> Tire pressure is a function of your bike-system+motor weight. Mine is
>> around 30-35+185-190 or 220lbs. Using Frank Berto's tire pressure chart I
>> pump my 28mm rear tire up to 90-95 and front 80-85 then don't refill for
>> several weeks. I seem to feel the need to refill around 75psi.
>>
>> I have found the Ruffy Tuffys to ride quite harsh, so much so that I no
>> longer ride them. I have some Ruffy Tuffy Speedblends I should sell.
>>
>> I am near the point in my riding and viewpoint where 28mm are just too
>> narrow. Over the last decade I have culled my herd of too-small frames,
>> tubular tires/wheels, road-style cleats, and perhaps soon bikes with less
>> then 32-35mm tires. My how times change!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, August 29, 2016 at 5:00:12 PM UTC-6, Lungimsam wrote:
>>>
>>> Also, how does the ride compare to other 28's you have ridden?
>>>
>>> Just wundrin'. Thanks for the info.
>>>
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[RBW] Re: Leah's Bicycle Bus! (and question)

[Clementine59]

Good for you!!! One of major my goals in life is to life a care-free life 
and forgo my driver's license renewal when it expires in 3 years. Your 
photo of the cars leaving school is so sad on so many levels. You are 
teaching your kids as well as the other kids (and hopefully their parents) 
in your neighborhood a great life lesson. Keep up the great work!

On Friday, August 26, 2016 at 5:27:25 PM UTC-4, LeahFoy wrote:
>
> School begins on Monday, and we have before us a number of challenges. The 
> school is in its second year, and it has exploded in population. There was 
> nearly no parking to begin with, and with the second school in the 
> neighborhood also convening in the morning and with the canyon's whole 
> workforce trying to get out for their 25 minute commute with but one single 
> road that we all must share, biking is a NO-BRAINER. But nearly no one, 
> excepting us, has done it. The school is 2 miles from my door (too far to 
> walk), all downhill to school, and all uphill on the way home. The hill is 
> so steep that a child really needs brakes of good quality for the downhill, 
> and a bike that isn't too heavy (these are just kids, remember) and has 
> GEARS for the way uphill. Also ideal would be a bottle cage for water since 
> we live in Vegas and a rack. But a rack is probably asking too much. 
>
> I mentor the junior high girls from church (I heart teenagers!), and one 
> of my little favorites, L,  will attend our school. She and her little 
> sister plan to use their electric scooter and bike to join us. She babysits 
> a boy who will ride with us on his own bike. Another family I'm acquainted 
> with asked if their 5th grader could join us. As I was leaving campus after 
> the meet and greet today, I heard L yell, "Leah! We have some more coming!" 
>
> "More what?" I asked.
> "More girls!" she called.
> "Riding bikes?" I asked, incredulous.
> "Yes, my mom's getting all their information, I'll tell you later!"
>
> So, there you have it. Leah's Bicycle Bus is born! 
>
> You might imagine I have some anxiety about the logistics. Even more about 
> the liability. I have a plan worked out, and I'll tweak it as need arises. 
>
> Now, for the question.
>
> My only-5th grade-son has been reclassified as a middle-schooler. He must 
> carry all his books/folders/etc in his backpack. They tell me, "Oh, and 
> here's his Chromebook for the year. It goes home with him every night." 
>
> SERIOUSLY? 
>
> My Betty Foy has a Nitto Big Front Rack with the biggest Wald they make. 
> The back has a lighter duty rack that was acting as a support for my medium 
> Saddlesack. This is not going to carry both sons' bags and lunches now that 
> my "middle-schooler" must schlep around everything he owns. Also, what 
> happens if one of the neighborhood kids needs me to haul something?  I 
> called Riv and Will listened and we both thought I would need the Big Back 
> Rack, so I ordered it. Now, I wonder if I should continue to use my medium 
> saddlesack or if I should order the large. Or maybe just add 
> Back-a-Bike-bags, which are out of stock for now. Will suggested: 
> http://www.carsickdesigns.com/products/large-pannier-set but I don't love 
> them very much.
>
> Someone chime in and tell me what's the best way to carry all this weight.
>
> Thanks once again! L
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Cantilever brake question...

[Bill in Roswell GA]

Ref the Shimano Deore XT V brakes, I just rebuilt a 1997 Klein MTB that 
I've not been on since 2004. I cleaned the brake tracks, sanded the pads 
and was astounded at how great those brakes are (in the dry). Using shorty 
levers, I'm talking one finger operation per brake. A nice feature of the 
old XT Vs is how wide the open, easily clearing 2.2 inch wide tires. 

The old XT V brakes have more stopping power than the Ultegra 6600 
sidepulls I have on a couple of bikes (flex?). Having recently taken a ride 
on a gravel bike with TRP Spyres, I would say the old XT V brakes are only 
a few hairs behind, about equal with Avid BB7s (in the dry). 

On of my riding buddies has Shimano CX-70 canti brakes on his all-rounder 
and those things are pretty awesome with the stock Shimano pads. My CX has 
wide cantis (Kore branded, but a lot like FSAs) with Koolstop CX pads setup 
with low straddle (the way most CX racers run wide cantis) and they are 
pretty good at slowing the bike down, but not as good at stopping. Levers 
are Ultegra 6600 STI.

If you can't run discs and need stopping power the old XT V brakes would be 
hard to beat (having never tried Paul or Compass centerpulls) for the 
money. 

Cheers,
Bill in Roswell, GA

On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 2:40:16 PM UTC-4, Brian Campbell wrote:
>
> This is why I no longer use cantilever brakes. V-brakes work and have 
> allowed me to stop futzing. I know the purists are taught to hate V-bakes 
> because they don't "look" the part, or you are lacking in mechanical skills 
> if you don't enjoy spending time with them.In the real world they work 
> better, are easier to set up, easier to maintain and easier to service 
> (especially on the road if need be). I recently set up a set of Shimano SLR 
> mid profile canti-s on a 1983 Schwinn Voyageur SP and while they work ok, I 
> was reminded that they are a good bit more finicky ( and the Shimano brakes 
> are pretty well designed and easy to set up as far a canti's go) and 
> require more time that V-Brakes. 
>
> I say go with the mini-motos' (if possible) and don't look back. You will 
> more than likely not have think about whether or not the brakes have been 
> "optimized" ever again..
>
> FWIW, I used a set of Shimano XT V- brakes (silver) when I built up the 
> Hunqapillar frame you provided me (I am keeping it BTW, figured out my fit 
> issue)and the brakes were set up at the time of the build and have needed 
> nothing since. More powerful that any canti brake I have ever used. 
>
> On Saturday, August 27, 2016 at 2:00:24 PM UTC-4, René wrote:
>
>> Here is the source of my original confusion; extracted from the article 
>> linked by Alan:
>> "*Straddle cable and yoke position*
>> To get the most out of your canti brake, it's crucial to get the straddle 
>> cable carrier (yoke) installed in the right position based on the type of 
>> brakes you are running.  Simply put, you want to try to achieve a 90 degree 
>> angle between the pivot bolt/cable anchor/straddle cable.  The angle formed 
>> if you drew a line from the pivot bolt to the cable anchor on the arm and 
>> along the straddle cable should be around 90 degrees.  This gives you a 
>> good combination of modulation and power.  It's possible to alter this 
>> angle to get more power, giving up modulation.  A rough rule of thumb is 
>> low-profile brakes require a low straddle cable carrier position, wide 
>> profile brakes require a high straddle cable carrier position.  Going even 
>> lower on a low-profile brake will give you more power, but the modulation 
>> will be lower and the brake pads will need to be set closer to the rim.  
>> This position also will feel a little mushy at the lever.  Most lower 
>> profile canti brakes I see have the straddle carrier set too high.  This 
>> might feel good at the lever; solid feeling, you might say, but when you 
>> need to hit the brakes you won't have the power needed to stop."
>>
>> See the sentence that starts with "A rough rule of thumb..."
>>
>> So I checked my Neo-Retro yoke position; it wasn't too high, limited by 
>> the crown fork cable hanger, probably around 1 - 1.5" above the fender 
>> (recent photo: https://flic.kr/p/Huku4A). Lowered it to almost touching 
>> the fender, just 5 - 6mm away, and though the feeling increased slightly, 
>> the braking is still less powerful than the rear Touring brake.
>>
>> Next step is to remove the rack (hassle!) to install the Touring brakes 
>> and check if the MiniMoto fit or not.
>>
>> Stay tuned...
>>
>> René 
>>
>> On Thursday, August 25, 2016, adam leibow  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> http://blackmountaincycles.blogspot.com/2013/03/get-most-out-of-your-canit-brake.html
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, August 24, 2016 at 4:49:20 PM UTC-7, René wrote:

 Hi all,

 I've had Paul Cantis on my Atlantis (and Hunqapillar) since I acquired 
 them. Paul Centerpulls on the Homer after using the original Silver 
 brakes, 
 and now will have Compass brazed

[RBW] Behind seat tube frame pump / mount for Clementine 59

[Clementine59]

Looking for suggestions or hacks for a rattle-free setup behind the seat 
tube on a Clementine 59. At the moment, I'm considering the Zefal HPX pump 
mounted with Zefal or Twofish blocks/straps. 

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Re: [RBW] Anyone tried the mod174 drop bar from Nitto?

[Justin August]

I love the MoD174. I have it in 42 and I am looking for it in 44cm silver. 
Fairweather is out and I'm debating ordering the 46cm. 

It's a great bar and really fits well with the longer hoods of modern brake 
levers. 

Irving - what size do you have?

-Justin, Oakland

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[RBW] Re: Cantilever brake question...

[Jay Lonner]

Jeremy, what you write makes perfect sense and is an excellent distillation 
of what Sheldon has written on the subject. However, in my experience 
theory doesn't always work out under real-world conditions. FWIW, I am a 
large man (6'3", 215#) with big hands (size 8.5 glove) and a strong grip 
(take my word for it). In wet conditions with a heavy load and a steep 
descent I have found Neo-Retros to function more as speed modulators than 
proper brakes, no matter how hard I squeeze. So far I am happier with the 
Touring cantis, but they've only been on the bike for a month or so and 
it's been pretty dry during that time, so it isn't an apples-to-apples 
comparison. The rain is coming though, so stay tuned...

Jay Lonner
Bellingham, WA


On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 8:03:37 PM UTC-7, Jeremy Till wrote:
>
> It may help to clarify a few things here, and define terms.  Braking 
> "power" is a tricky term, but for the purposes of my post we could define 
> it as amount of normal force applied by the brake pad to the rim.  This is 
> dependent on the mechanical advantage of the braking system (brake, cables, 
> and levers), the spring tension of the brakes, and the grip strength of the 
> rider.  For the purposes of this discussion we will ignore secondary 
> factors in braking such as cable stretch, housing compression, and brake 
> pad friction.  
>
> Mechanical advantage (or leverage) is likewise a tricky term.  It refers 
> specifically to how much the braking system multiplies the force applied to 
> the brake lever by the rider. Taken simplistically, therefore, it could be 
> understood as the main determinant of power, as in "v-brakes are more 
> powerful than cantis." However; mechanical advantage is not power for 
> nothing; just like a simple lever, in order to taken advantage of leverage, 
> we have to apply that power over a distance.  The brake lever travels 
> farther than the brake pad over the course of the braking action.  The 
> bigger the mechanical advantage of the system, the farther your fingers 
> have to travel.  In the end, the power (remember, that's total braking 
> force) of high mechanical advantage systems can be limited by the amount of 
> travel the lever has between its resting point and bottoming out on the 
> handlebar.  Since the brake pad is not moving very far, they also have the 
> disadvantage of requiring the brake pads to be run very close to the rim, 
> requiring exacting brake adjustment and wheel trueness.  
>
> Low mechanical advantage systems, on the other hand, often are not limited 
> by lever travel.  Since the leverage ratio is smaller, the total distance 
> the brake lever has to travel is smaller, well within the range of most 
> contemporary brake lever designs, even when adjusted for smaller reach.  It 
> just means that the force you have to apply to the brake lever in order to 
> achieve a given "power" (braking force) is larger than it would be with a 
> higher mechanical advantage system.  In other words, it comes down to grip 
> strength.  If you have plenty of grip strength and squeeze really hard, a 
> low mechanical advantage system can let you achieve very high braking force 
> without ever reaching the limits of your brake levers.  They also have the 
> advantage of allowing the brake pads to run farther from the rim, so aren't 
> as depending on exacting setup and perfectly true wheels.  
> .
> So in the end, it comes down to the particular rider: the dimensions of 
> their hands, their grip strength, and their personal preferences.  If you 
> are limited in grip strength, you would probably prefer a high mechanical 
> advantage system.  However, given that most riders with lower grip strength 
> also have smaller hands and have to limit the reach of their brake levers, 
> this means that lever travel becomes the limiting factor in most high 
> mechanical advantage systems.  While they multiply hand force more, they 
> are limited by how far the brake lever can go before hitting the bar.  They 
> have a limit beyond which you cannot physically brake anymore, even if you 
> were stronger.   On the the other hand, folks with big hands and  a firm 
> handshake can run a low mechanical advantage system, run their brake levers 
> as far out as they'll go, and be just fine.  Since the're not limited by 
> level travel, they harder they pull, the harder the brakes will press on 
> the rim. 
>
> What does this have to do with the braking components offered by Paul? 
>  Well, here's the rub (pun intended): I'm fairly certain that the 
> mid-profile Touring Canti has more mechanical advantage than the 
> high-profile Neo-Retro.  Does that mean that they are absolutely more 
> powerful than the Neo-Retros?  Not necessarily; they just create a system 
> that is limited more by lever travel than the grip strength of the rider. 
>  I have no doubt that a rider with a strong grip could squeeze tons of 
> power out of a set of Neo-Retros, the type of fork-bend

[RBW] Re: Leah's Bicycle Bus! (and question)

[LeahFoy]

Brian, your kids! How SWEET. Love your setup. I didn't have quite that setup, 
but I did pull L on a Trek tag-along for a few years. I was happy when he 
became independent because I could finally take the ugly black hitch off my 
seat post and let the Betty be as beautiful and unfettered as she was meant to 
be. 

Clementine59 - I hope you can make your goal! I wish I could do most of my 
errands by bike, but I am not able (or ready) to give up the van just yet. 
(Side note: I do think more people will do just that, however. The advent of 
driverless cars and Uber and such wonders will make drivers' licenses rather 
unnecessary. So, if you can't get there by bike, those options are wonderful. 
Maybe I'll give up the van yet!) Do you live in a bike-friendly place? How I 
envy you if you do. Everything is here car-centric and spread out for miles, 
and then there are the mountains along the way. I told my husband the next time 
we move, I want to live somewhere bike-friendly. We do have great weather most 
of the year, though, so there's that! 

Have you shown us your Clementine yet? We'd love to see it!

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[RBW] Re: FS: Quickbeam Suzue Rear Wheel $50

[Bill Lindsay]

Let me know if you want a deal on a bolt on Phil 32 hole front hub

Bill

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