Re: [RBW] Comebacks for when people think your bikes cost too much

[Joe Bernard]

If I have to explain you better be married to me. Otherwise we're not 
discussing the price of my bicycle. 



On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 10:02:16 PM UTC-7 Matthew Williams wrote:

> I like the line I heard from my friends who built and rode motorcycles:
>
> "If I have to explain, you'd never understand."
>
>
>
> On Jun 27, 2021, at 8:12 PM, Kushan  wrote:
>
> Wife and recently marked the 10th anniversary and decided to get each 
> other nice presents. She is getting me an Appaloosa built and I got her 
> something she really wanted in the jewelry department (of 20-30% higher 
> value than the bike). 
>
> We are both financially responsible people, don't live lavishly, and can 
> afford both items. However, the reactions of the friends and family who 
> hear about our gifts and their values have been somewhat puzzling for me. 
> While no one has given a second thought to the price of the jewelry, the 
> reactions on the bike have almost universally been that of astonishment. 
> And these are from people who know me well, know I enjoy cycling, and that 
> I only have one bike right now which I am planning to sell when the new one 
> arrives.
>
> So that got me thinking, I can't be the only one who has experienced this. 
> What are some other similar stories? More importantly, what do you say to a 
> well-meaning loved one when they ask things like "$3500 for a bike?" and 
> "but isn't your current bike orange too?"
>
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>  
> 
> .
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Comebacks for when people think your bikes cost too much

[Matthew Williams]

I like the line I heard from my friends who built and rode motorcycles:

"If I have to explain, you'd never understand."



On Jun 27, 2021, at 8:12 PM, Kushan  wrote:

> Wife and recently marked the 10th anniversary and decided to get each other 
> nice presents. She is getting me an Appaloosa built and I got her something 
> she really wanted in the jewelry department (of 20-30% higher value than the 
> bike). 
> 
> We are both financially responsible people, don't live lavishly, and can 
> afford both items. However, the reactions of the friends and family who hear 
> about our gifts and their values have been somewhat puzzling for me. While no 
> one has given a second thought to the price of the jewelry, the reactions on 
> the bike have almost universally been that of astonishment. And these are 
> from people who know me well, know I enjoy cycling, and that I only have one 
> bike right now which I am planning to sell when the new one arrives.
> 
> So that got me thinking, I can't be the only one who has experienced this. 
> What are some other similar stories? More importantly, what do you say to a 
> well-meaning loved one when they ask things like "$3500 for a bike?" and "but 
> isn't your current bike orange too?"
> 
> -- 
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> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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Re: [RBW] Re: Comebacks for when people think your bikes cost too much

[Benjamin L. Kelley]

I generally remind them it's less expensive than most peoples cars. Then I
remind them that I don't own a car and that my bike is my transportation.



--ben in KC, celebrating 5 years of being car free in car country this
summer.

On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 11:47 PM Ian A  wrote:

> Most people understand watches, so the example can be compared to buying a
> Rolex or a Grand Seiko vs a Timex.
>
> Between 2009-2011 I spent the two years riding 20,000 miles from Vancouver
> BC to the tip of South America (Ushuaia) then north as far as Uruguay. I
> had bought a used touring bike for US$650, spent a bit on upgrading the
> wheels, bought used panniers and lots of used gear and was probably
> tour-ready for under. $1500. I travelled on the cheap by avoiding hotels.
> One evening in rural Colombia where I camped outside an army baracks (with
> their permission) a couple of gents I was chatting with had an old 250cc
> motorbike. They asked my how much I had paid for the bicycle and I said
> approximately $1000 and they were gobsmacked and told me the motorbike was
> only worth $500. I asked if the motorbike would make it from Canada and be
> able to continue to Argentina. Their response was hillarious as they said
> they wouldn't trust the motorbike to the end of their road and acknowedged
> a bicycle that could go all that way would have to cost some. It put the
> price/value equation into some perspective.
>
> IanA Alberta Canada (That tour was the last interesting thing I have
> done!).
>
> On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 9:12:57 PM UTC-6 Kushan wrote:
>
>> Wife and recently marked the 10th anniversary and decided to get each
>> other nice presents. She is getting me an Appaloosa built and I got her
>> something she really wanted in the jewelry department (of 20-30% higher
>> value than the bike).
>>
>> We are both financially responsible people, don't live lavishly, and can
>> afford both items. However, the reactions of the friends and family who
>> hear about our gifts and their values have been somewhat puzzling for me.
>> While no one has given a second thought to the price of the jewelry, the
>> reactions on the bike have almost universally been that of astonishment.
>> And these are from people who know me well, know I enjoy cycling, and that
>> I only have one bike right now which I am planning to sell when the new one
>> arrives.
>>
>> So that got me thinking, I can't be the only one who has experienced
>> this. What are some other similar stories? More importantly, what do you
>> say to a well-meaning loved one when they ask things like "$3500 for a
>> bike?" and "but isn't your current bike orange too?"
>>
> --
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> 
> .
>

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[RBW] Re: Comebacks for when people think your bikes cost too much

[Ian A]

Most people understand watches, so the example can be compared to buying a 
Rolex or a Grand Seiko vs a Timex. 

Between 2009-2011 I spent the two years riding 20,000 miles from Vancouver 
BC to the tip of South America (Ushuaia) then north as far as Uruguay. I 
had bought a used touring bike for US$650, spent a bit on upgrading the 
wheels, bought used panniers and lots of used gear and was probably 
tour-ready for under. $1500. I travelled on the cheap by avoiding hotels. 
One evening in rural Colombia where I camped outside an army baracks (with 
their permission) a couple of gents I was chatting with had an old 250cc 
motorbike. They asked my how much I had paid for the bicycle and I said 
approximately $1000 and they were gobsmacked and told me the motorbike was 
only worth $500. I asked if the motorbike would make it from Canada and be 
able to continue to Argentina. Their response was hillarious as they said 
they wouldn't trust the motorbike to the end of their road and acknowedged 
a bicycle that could go all that way would have to cost some. It put the 
price/value equation into some perspective.

IanA Alberta Canada (That tour was the last interesting thing I have done!).

On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 9:12:57 PM UTC-6 Kushan wrote:

> Wife and recently marked the 10th anniversary and decided to get each 
> other nice presents. She is getting me an Appaloosa built and I got her 
> something she really wanted in the jewelry department (of 20-30% higher 
> value than the bike). 
>
> We are both financially responsible people, don't live lavishly, and can 
> afford both items. However, the reactions of the friends and family who 
> hear about our gifts and their values have been somewhat puzzling for me. 
> While no one has given a second thought to the price of the jewelry, the 
> reactions on the bike have almost universally been that of astonishment. 
> And these are from people who know me well, know I enjoy cycling, and that 
> I only have one bike right now which I am planning to sell when the new one 
> arrives.
>
> So that got me thinking, I can't be the only one who has experienced this. 
> What are some other similar stories? More importantly, what do you say to a 
> well-meaning loved one when they ask things like "$3500 for a bike?" and 
> "but isn't your current bike orange too?"
>

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[RBW] Re: Comebacks for when people think your bikes cost too much

[Drw]

I think about this a lot. I currently have vintage bikes that i've spent 
maybe 300$ total on, and i have 2 rivs that are probably approaching 4k all 
in. Do they ride THAT differentlynot really. Why do i feel the money is 
justified?

I think one point would be that if you are into bikes, 3k is not crazy. i 
just perused the specialized website and 3k is sort of in the middle. They 
have a couple 15,000$ bikes!?! all of their gravel bikes are kind of in the 
rivendell range- some more, some less.

Another point could be about bikes and parts made responsibly in the US or 
other places that i trust rivendell to source from. A friend of mine needed 
some cantilever brakes recently and texted me "i dont know who PAUL is, but 
he seems pretty full of himself."... which was a joke. I get it though, to 
a non bike person, why would you pay 200$ for brakes when you can buy 30$ 
tektros. 

and then lastly, i rely on, "This is my hobby. i dont drive a fancy car. i 
cook my own food. this is the thing that i like to spend what little extra 
money i have on." Whoever you are talking to also has their thing,  and if 
they can link that your thing, to you, is equal to their thing, to them,  
its a good start i think. 


On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 8:43:51 PM UTC-7 Joel S wrote:

> Of the few people I have told about the cost of the bikes I have only a 
> couple get it, one is a bike guy.  Most people will not get it.  It’s the 
> same with guitars, cameras, etc.  Best to not discuss with those that 
> really do not get it.  For most $1,000 is an extravagant bike.  Jewelry, 
> watches, best not to discuss.  
>
> On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 11:12:57 PM UTC-4 Kushan wrote:
>
>> Wife and recently marked the 10th anniversary and decided to get each 
>> other nice presents. She is getting me an Appaloosa built and I got her 
>> something she really wanted in the jewelry department (of 20-30% higher 
>> value than the bike). 
>>
>> We are both financially responsible people, don't live lavishly, and can 
>> afford both items. However, the reactions of the friends and family who 
>> hear about our gifts and their values have been somewhat puzzling for me. 
>> While no one has given a second thought to the price of the jewelry, the 
>> reactions on the bike have almost universally been that of astonishment. 
>> And these are from people who know me well, know I enjoy cycling, and that 
>> I only have one bike right now which I am planning to sell when the new one 
>> arrives.
>>
>> So that got me thinking, I can't be the only one who has experienced 
>> this. What are some other similar stories? More importantly, what do you 
>> say to a well-meaning loved one when they ask things like "$3500 for a 
>> bike?" and "but isn't your current bike orange too?"
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Comebacks for when people think your bikes cost too much

['Joel S' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Of the few people I have told about the cost of the bikes I have only a 
couple get it, one is a bike guy.  Most people will not get it.  It’s the 
same with guitars, cameras, etc.  Best to not discuss with those that 
really do not get it.  For most $1,000 is an extravagant bike.  Jewelry, 
watches, best not to discuss.  

On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 11:12:57 PM UTC-4 Kushan wrote:

> Wife and recently marked the 10th anniversary and decided to get each 
> other nice presents. She is getting me an Appaloosa built and I got her 
> something she really wanted in the jewelry department (of 20-30% higher 
> value than the bike). 
>
> We are both financially responsible people, don't live lavishly, and can 
> afford both items. However, the reactions of the friends and family who 
> hear about our gifts and their values have been somewhat puzzling for me. 
> While no one has given a second thought to the price of the jewelry, the 
> reactions on the bike have almost universally been that of astonishment. 
> And these are from people who know me well, know I enjoy cycling, and that 
> I only have one bike right now which I am planning to sell when the new one 
> arrives.
>
> So that got me thinking, I can't be the only one who has experienced this. 
> What are some other similar stories? More importantly, what do you say to a 
> well-meaning loved one when they ask things like "$3500 for a bike?" and 
> "but isn't your current bike orange too?"
>

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[RBW] Comebacks for when people think your bikes cost too much

[Kushan]

Wife and recently marked the 10th anniversary and decided to get each other 
nice presents. She is getting me an Appaloosa built and I got her something 
she really wanted in the jewelry department (of 20-30% higher value than 
the bike). 

We are both financially responsible people, don't live lavishly, and can 
afford both items. However, the reactions of the friends and family who 
hear about our gifts and their values have been somewhat puzzling for me. 
While no one has given a second thought to the price of the jewelry, the 
reactions on the bike have almost universally been that of astonishment. 
And these are from people who know me well, know I enjoy cycling, and that 
I only have one bike right now which I am planning to sell when the new one 
arrives.

So that got me thinking, I can't be the only one who has experienced this. 
What are some other similar stories? More importantly, what do you say to a 
well-meaning loved one when they ask things like "$3500 for a bike?" and 
"but isn't your current bike orange too?"

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Re: [RBW] Ride Quality Difference between the Atlantis and Clem H?

[max.c....@gmail.com]

Haha, that got a laugh out of me! I'm saving as we speak...

On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 9:21:16 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Money buys lugs and butted tubing, baby. Buy up! 
>
>
>
> On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 6:18:17 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> If there is one thing you can count on this group for, it's the up-sell. 
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 6:10 PM max.c@gmail.com  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks all for weighing in -- it's been helpful! It has made me think 
>>> (so far) that the Clem would give me more of what I currently have with my 
>>> mid 80s Schwinn Cimarron and the Atlantis would give me a new experience, 
>>> which is what I think I'm after.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 6:19:52 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>>
 That's a good point, Joe - I think the Clem's tubing is "tuned" to 
 carry a load. Thinking more about it, the bike rode best when it was 
 loaded 
 down for me.  I imagine this is true of the Atlantis too but perhaps more 
 of a lightweight camp gear load, not heavy groceries load.  

 I was also on the 45cm H model, which is the stiffest possible option 
 in terms of triangulation (tight front triangle, and relatively short 45cm 
 stays).  That could have a lot to do with it. 

 On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 4:16 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:

> It's definitely different, you just have to know what you want a bike 
> to do. I've owned several Clems (both styles) and they all have an unique 
> ability to gain momentum and keep it..like once you get up to speed it 
> kinda wants to stay there. But it's a relatively heavy cruiser which 
> isn't 
> going to win any races, especially up hill. Its trick is it will carry 
> lots 
> of stuff all day and leave you alone to sit up and look around at the 
> scenery. A great bike for the things it's supposed to be great at, in my 
> opinion.  
>
>
>
> On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 4:04:53 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> This interests me, since I've thought of a Clem as a budget "cruiser" 
>> addition to my bike wardrobe. "Cruiser" covers a multitude of sins 
>> (quoting 
>> St Paul out of context), but all equal, I'd prefer a frame that didn't 
>> feel 
>> dead.
>>
>> Others: Do you find the Clem "non-lively" compared to other (which?) 
>> Riv frames?
>>
>> Patrick "OTOH, my perfectly acceptable 2012 Monocog frame does not 
>> present itself as 'dead'" Moore
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 4:56 PM Jason Fuller  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> ...  it cannot be overstated that the Clem is a utility bike through 
>>> and through:  the tubing is heavy and offers no liveliness of ride ...
>>>
>> -- 
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>  
> 
> .
>
 -- 
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>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Ride Quality Difference between the Atlantis and Clem H?

[Joe Bernard]

Money buys lugs and butted tubing, baby. Buy up! 



On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 6:18:17 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:

> If there is one thing you can count on this group for, it's the up-sell. 
>
> On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 6:10 PM max.c@gmail.com  
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks all for weighing in -- it's been helpful! It has made me think (so 
>> far) that the Clem would give me more of what I currently have with my mid 
>> 80s Schwinn Cimarron and the Atlantis would give me a new experience, which 
>> is what I think I'm after.
>>
>> On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 6:19:52 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> That's a good point, Joe - I think the Clem's tubing is "tuned" to carry 
>>> a load. Thinking more about it, the bike rode best when it was loaded down 
>>> for me.  I imagine this is true of the Atlantis too but perhaps more of a 
>>> lightweight camp gear load, not heavy groceries load.  
>>>
>>> I was also on the 45cm H model, which is the stiffest possible option in 
>>> terms of triangulation (tight front triangle, and relatively short 45cm 
>>> stays).  That could have a lot to do with it. 
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 4:16 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>>
 It's definitely different, you just have to know what you want a bike 
 to do. I've owned several Clems (both styles) and they all have an unique 
 ability to gain momentum and keep it..like once you get up to speed it 
 kinda wants to stay there. But it's a relatively heavy cruiser which isn't 
 going to win any races, especially up hill. Its trick is it will carry 
 lots 
 of stuff all day and leave you alone to sit up and look around at the 
 scenery. A great bike for the things it's supposed to be great at, in my 
 opinion.  



 On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 4:04:53 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> This interests me, since I've thought of a Clem as a budget "cruiser" 
> addition to my bike wardrobe. "Cruiser" covers a multitude of sins 
> (quoting 
> St Paul out of context), but all equal, I'd prefer a frame that didn't 
> feel 
> dead.
>
> Others: Do you find the Clem "non-lively" compared to other (which?) 
> Riv frames?
>
> Patrick "OTOH, my perfectly acceptable 2012 Monocog frame does not 
> present itself as 'dead'" Moore
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 4:56 PM Jason Fuller  
> wrote:
>
>> ...  it cannot be overstated that the Clem is a utility bike through 
>> and through:  the tubing is heavy and offers no liveliness of ride ...
>>
> -- 
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 .

>>> -- 
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>>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Ride Quality Difference between the Atlantis and Clem H?

[Jason Fuller]

If there is one thing you can count on this group for, it's the up-sell.

On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 6:10 PM max.c@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Thanks all for weighing in -- it's been helpful! It has made me think (so
> far) that the Clem would give me more of what I currently have with my mid
> 80s Schwinn Cimarron and the Atlantis would give me a new experience, which
> is what I think I'm after.
>
> On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 6:19:52 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> That's a good point, Joe - I think the Clem's tubing is "tuned" to carry
>> a load. Thinking more about it, the bike rode best when it was loaded down
>> for me.  I imagine this is true of the Atlantis too but perhaps more of a
>> lightweight camp gear load, not heavy groceries load.
>>
>> I was also on the 45cm H model, which is the stiffest possible option in
>> terms of triangulation (tight front triangle, and relatively short 45cm
>> stays).  That could have a lot to do with it.
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 4:16 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>
>>> It's definitely different, you just have to know what you want a bike to
>>> do. I've owned several Clems (both styles) and they all have an unique
>>> ability to gain momentum and keep it..like once you get up to speed it
>>> kinda wants to stay there. But it's a relatively heavy cruiser which isn't
>>> going to win any races, especially up hill. Its trick is it will carry lots
>>> of stuff all day and leave you alone to sit up and look around at the
>>> scenery. A great bike for the things it's supposed to be great at, in my
>>> opinion.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 4:04:53 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 This interests me, since I've thought of a Clem as a budget "cruiser"
 addition to my bike wardrobe. "Cruiser" covers a multitude of sins (quoting
 St Paul out of context), but all equal, I'd prefer a frame that didn't feel
 dead.

 Others: Do you find the Clem "non-lively" compared to other (which?)
 Riv frames?

 Patrick "OTOH, my perfectly acceptable 2012 Monocog frame does not
 present itself as 'dead'" Moore



 On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 4:56 PM Jason Fuller 
 wrote:

> ...  it cannot be overstated that the Clem is a utility bike through
> and through:  the tubing is heavy and offers no liveliness of ride ...
>
 --
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>>>
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Re: [RBW] Ride Quality Difference between the Atlantis and Clem H?

[max.c....@gmail.com]

Thanks all for weighing in -- it's been helpful! It has made me think (so 
far) that the Clem would give me more of what I currently have with my mid 
80s Schwinn Cimarron and the Atlantis would give me a new experience, which 
is what I think I'm after.

On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 6:19:52 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:

> That's a good point, Joe - I think the Clem's tubing is "tuned" to carry a 
> load. Thinking more about it, the bike rode best when it was loaded down 
> for me.  I imagine this is true of the Atlantis too but perhaps more of a 
> lightweight camp gear load, not heavy groceries load.  
>
> I was also on the 45cm H model, which is the stiffest possible option in 
> terms of triangulation (tight front triangle, and relatively short 45cm 
> stays).  That could have a lot to do with it. 
>
> On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 4:16 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
>> It's definitely different, you just have to know what you want a bike to 
>> do. I've owned several Clems (both styles) and they all have an unique 
>> ability to gain momentum and keep it..like once you get up to speed it 
>> kinda wants to stay there. But it's a relatively heavy cruiser which isn't 
>> going to win any races, especially up hill. Its trick is it will carry lots 
>> of stuff all day and leave you alone to sit up and look around at the 
>> scenery. A great bike for the things it's supposed to be great at, in my 
>> opinion.  
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 4:04:53 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> This interests me, since I've thought of a Clem as a budget "cruiser" 
>>> addition to my bike wardrobe. "Cruiser" covers a multitude of sins (quoting 
>>> St Paul out of context), but all equal, I'd prefer a frame that didn't feel 
>>> dead.
>>>
>>> Others: Do you find the Clem "non-lively" compared to other (which?) Riv 
>>> frames?
>>>
>>> Patrick "OTOH, my perfectly acceptable 2012 Monocog frame does not 
>>> present itself as 'dead'" Moore
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 4:56 PM Jason Fuller  wrote:
>>>
 ...  it cannot be overstated that the Clem is a utility bike through 
 and through:  the tubing is heavy and offers no liveliness of ride ...

>>> -- 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Ride Quality Difference between the Atlantis and Clem H?

[Jason Fuller]

That's a good point, Joe - I think the Clem's tubing is "tuned" to carry a
load. Thinking more about it, the bike rode best when it was loaded down
for me.  I imagine this is true of the Atlantis too but perhaps more of a
lightweight camp gear load, not heavy groceries load.

I was also on the 45cm H model, which is the stiffest possible option in
terms of triangulation (tight front triangle, and relatively short 45cm
stays).  That could have a lot to do with it.

On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 4:16 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:

> It's definitely different, you just have to know what you want a bike to
> do. I've owned several Clems (both styles) and they all have an unique
> ability to gain momentum and keep it..like once you get up to speed it
> kinda wants to stay there. But it's a relatively heavy cruiser which isn't
> going to win any races, especially up hill. Its trick is it will carry lots
> of stuff all day and leave you alone to sit up and look around at the
> scenery. A great bike for the things it's supposed to be great at, in my
> opinion.
>
>
>
> On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 4:04:53 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> This interests me, since I've thought of a Clem as a budget "cruiser"
>> addition to my bike wardrobe. "Cruiser" covers a multitude of sins (quoting
>> St Paul out of context), but all equal, I'd prefer a frame that didn't feel
>> dead.
>>
>> Others: Do you find the Clem "non-lively" compared to other (which?) Riv
>> frames?
>>
>> Patrick "OTOH, my perfectly acceptable 2012 Monocog frame does not
>> present itself as 'dead'" Moore
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 4:56 PM Jason Fuller  wrote:
>>
>>> ...  it cannot be overstated that the Clem is a utility bike through and
>>> through:  the tubing is heavy and offers no liveliness of ride ...
>>>
>> --
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> .
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Re: [RBW] Ride Quality Difference between the Atlantis and Clem H?

[Joe Bernard]

It's definitely different, you just have to know what you want a bike to 
do. I've owned several Clems (both styles) and they all have an unique 
ability to gain momentum and keep it..like once you get up to speed it 
kinda wants to stay there. But it's a relatively heavy cruiser which isn't 
going to win any races, especially up hill. Its trick is it will carry lots 
of stuff all day and leave you alone to sit up and look around at the 
scenery. A great bike for the things it's supposed to be great at, in my 
opinion.  



On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 4:04:53 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> This interests me, since I've thought of a Clem as a budget "cruiser" 
> addition to my bike wardrobe. "Cruiser" covers a multitude of sins (quoting 
> St Paul out of context), but all equal, I'd prefer a frame that didn't feel 
> dead.
>
> Others: Do you find the Clem "non-lively" compared to other (which?) Riv 
> frames?
>
> Patrick "OTOH, my perfectly acceptable 2012 Monocog frame does not present 
> itself as 'dead'" Moore
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 4:56 PM Jason Fuller  wrote:
>
>> ...  it cannot be overstated that the Clem is a utility bike through and 
>> through:  the tubing is heavy and offers no liveliness of ride ...
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Ride Quality Difference between the Atlantis and Clem H?

[Patrick Moore]

This interests me, since I've thought of a Clem as a budget "cruiser"
addition to my bike wardrobe. "Cruiser" covers a multitude of sins (quoting
St Paul out of context), but all equal, I'd prefer a frame that didn't feel
dead.

Others: Do you find the Clem "non-lively" compared to other (which?) Riv
frames?

Patrick "OTOH, my perfectly acceptable 2012 Monocog frame does not present
itself as 'dead'" Moore



On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 4:56 PM Jason Fuller  wrote:

> ...  it cannot be overstated that the Clem is a utility bike through and
> through:  the tubing is heavy and offers no liveliness of ride ...
>

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Re: [RBW] Ride Quality Difference between the Atlantis and Clem H?

[Jason Fuller]

Similar to others, I am in-between Clem sizes and therefore sold mine 
largely just due to poor fit, but also it cannot be overstated that the 
Clem is a utility bike through and through:  the tubing is heavy and offers 
no liveliness of ride, but it will last a lifetime of grocery store runs 
and doing whatever you ask of it, as long as you don't ask it to be 
sporty.  

If you want ride quality, get the Atlantis for sure. Even though it's a 
stout bike, the Atlantis was designed with ride quality much higher up the 
priority list than the Clem IMO. 

On Thursday, 24 June 2021 at 11:54:05 UTC-7 E. Ricky Creek wrote:

> It is time for me to fess up as to how many Riv's were (until recently) in 
> my garage: 7. I ride a Waterford Atlantis, a Waterford Hillborne (rare 
> canti/double TT 56cm), a Simpleone, and I recently sold a Gomez and a Clem 
> H. My wife rides a Cheviot and an Appaloosa (both are in my size range). I 
> rode the Clem H for 5-6 years and every time I rode it I thought "I just 
> don't love this bike, but it is the bike I ride the most (commuter)." I 
> ride a 58cm traditionally sized bike and found the 52 Clem H just never fit 
> right (too small). The 60cm Yves Gomez was too big and never felt 
> comfortable. Much like you my dream bike (since 2004) was the Atlantis. 
> I've had mine for 4 years. If I only could keep one bike, it would be the 
> Atlantis. I am not as fond of the long chainstays as others here are, but I 
> have ridden them and didn't think they are bad, but I prefer the ride of my 
> Hillborne and Atlantis (and sometimes when my knees are feeling okay the 
> Simpleone). If you are into bikes and dream of different bikes and spent 
> crazy amounts of time looking at bikes (and parts!), thinking that X bike 
> will complete your bike quest, then buying your dream bike now may not 
> truly satisfy your hunger. I bought, rode, sold, traded, gave away many 
> bikes on my journey to my current stable, which is perfect for me. But if 
> I'd started way back in 2003 (when I got into riding as an "adult") with 
> this bunch of bikes I likely wouldn't feel the way about them as I do now. 
> I don't know what the answer is for you, nor does anyone, really, but you 
> can't go wrong with any bike that fits you and you enjoy riding. Plus if 
> you score a Clem on this list, it will still be worth what you paid in a 
> year (maybe more?!), and folks on this list are always up for a "new" bike. 
>
> That was long winded and didn't answer your question. The Clem H rode slow 
> and fat for me (as I am slow and fat), and it didn't fit me right because 
> of the huge gap between sizes. The Atlantis (original style) rides much 
> more like a traditional touring bike (stable, easy handling), which I 
> prefer. I rode a LHT for years and the Atlantis rides more similar, though 
> much better, that that. The bikes were set up with upright bars (though the 
> Atlantis now has wide drops, which I prefer). 
>
> On Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 1:09:41 PM UTC-5 dougP wrote:
>
>> Max:
>>
>> I have a 58 cm 2003 Atlantis that has seen extensive use in all the 
>> categories Jim mentioned and agree with his evaluations.  I have fitted 50 
>> mm tires to it but chosen to run 40 mm as my optimal size.  The bike is 
>> amazingly versatile & came with drop bars which were fine for years until 
>> the penny dropped & I went upright for even more comfort.  I've used 
>> several kinds of racks on it, both for light around town use & fully loaded 
>> touring.  It handles everything with style.  
>>
>> I've never ridden a Clem so obviously I'm highly biased in this but if 
>> the Atlantis is your dream bike, go for it.  A frequent comment from list 
>> members who've sold an Atlantis is "I wish I hadn't done that".  
>>
>> Used ones pop up here from time to time, usually in the common frame 
>> sizes.  While there is nothing like a brand new bike (I still remember 
>> pulling mine out of the shipping box), a used Atlantis is still a great 
>> bike.  It's not as if steel frames wear out.  Besides, if the Atlantis is 
>> your dream bike & you pass on it, you will always wonder "...what if?...".  
>>
>> dougP
>>
>> On Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 10:30:09 AM UTC-7 max.c@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for the feedback Jimmy!
>>>
>>> On Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 11:37:29 AM UTC-5 Jimmy Warren wrote:
>>>

 I’m an Atlantis owner and a family member of a Clem owner, which I have 
 ridden. Disclaimer: that Clem is 2 cm above my ideal size.

 If it were me, I’d save up and get an Atlantis, especially if 
 pre-owned. A used one probably has less tire room, but still has a lot of 
 tire room, and the newest ones, according to the Riv site fit 2.4”, which 
 I 
 think matches the Clem. And it rides better, more efficient. It’s all 
 around a more versatile bike if you’re looking for a do-all with 
 road-riding in mind as well as trails.

 And even if you find one of 

[RBW] FS: PARTS & ACCESSORIES

['Gerard Gunhouse' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I have decided to pare down some parts duplicates.  Most if not all the 
parts listed are either new in the box, like new or have never been mounted 
on a frame. Pictures are included via Flickr. please feel free to PM me if 
you may have any questions.

https://flic.kr/s/aHsmW4KhM9

Thank you for your consideration

(1) SUGINO XD2 600   46/36/26  170MM   $125
NEW/BOX
(2) MKS SYLVAN TRACK PEDALS BLACK/CHROME  $25 (PAIR)  
NEW/BOX
(1) STRONGLIGHT DELTA HEADSET   $55.00
BRITISH  26.4   NEW/BOX
(1) STRONGLIGHT A9 HEADSET   $50.00
BRITISH 26.4  NEW/BOX
(1)DURA ACE HB 7700 FRONT HUB$100
36 H  NEW/BOX
(1) NITTO DREAM BAR 46 HEAT TREATED   $60.00 
MOD 176  NEW/ NEVER MOUNTED  
(1) GILLES BERTHOUD FRONT RACK$75.00  
ADJUSTABLE W/ LIGHTING MOUNT
CANTILEVER OR V BRAKESNEW
(1) GILLES BERTHOUD SMALL SADDLE BAG  $45.00
#GB288 BLACK   NEW
(2) RIVENDELL BAGGINS BANNANA BAG  $100 (EACH)
NEW/NEVER USED
(4) SCHWALBE MARATHON PLUS TIRES  $45.00 (EACH)
SMART GUARD 700C X 35   NEW
(4) CONTI TOP TOURING 2000  $20.00 EACH
700C X 32  NEW   (PROPERLY STORED)
(4) TUBES 700C 35-43   $5.00 (EACH)
PRESTA
(4) MAVIC MA3  RIMS   $45.00 (EACH) 
700C 36H  NEW
(1) PARK CABLE/HOUSING CUTTER CN-10  $30.00
NEW/POUCH
(3) VINTAGE HURET/SIMPLEX DERAILLEUR CABLE  (NO CHARGE)
(1) SIDI GENIUS 4 LORICA SHOE   $100  
43.0 NEW/BOX
(1) SIDI TOURING SHOE   $125 
42.0 NEW/BOX 

SHIPPING NOT INCLUDED




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[RBW] FS: 62cm Hunqapillar f/f/hs + extras -- 1st gen, grey/kidney bean, $1,500

[Jeremy Till]

I find myself with one too many bicycles and it's a last in, first out kind 
of situation. For sale is a 62cm Hunqapillar frame, fork, and FSA Orbit 
headset, and I will throw in the Thomson Elite seatpost and Velo Orange 
63mm fluted fenders. I bought the frame/fork/headset used last summer, 
built it up and rode it occasionally for the past ~9 months. The seatpost 
and fenders were new as of last Fall. The fenders are basically installed, 
and include a hole in the front fender that lines up with the eyelet on a 
Nitto 32F front rack for more support. 

Stated geometry can be found here: https://flic.kr/p/7NnxMg
That also links to the Hunqapillar group on Flickr, which has a number of 
shots from the original flyer with other useful information. I suspect that 
the top tube is slightly longer than the stated geometry, just from 
comparing its fit against my other similarly sized bikes. Being a first 
generation, its tire clearance is more limited than the later generations. 
I would say it fits 700x52/29x2.1" without fenders, 700x45 or maybe 
slightly wider with fenders, depending on rim width. 

It's biggest imperfection is a large chainsuck scar on the drive side 
chainstay, which was preexisting when I acquired it. Before building it up 
I sanded it smooth and hit with some spray on clear coat to discourage 
rust. In my formerly professional opinion it's not structural concern, but 
like most things, good to keep an eye on. See picture at the link below 
below. Aside from that there are a couple of very small shellac drips on 
the top and diagatube, otherwise in really good shape.  

Pictures of what's for sale here: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmW5Fche
Pictures of it built up: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmQUkEX8 
My saddle height is around 790mm for reference.

Asking $1,500 for everything pictured. I'm located in Sacramento, CA and 
would be happy to do a local exchange here or in the SF Bay Area. Can also 
ship at buyer's expense.  

Missed out on an Appaloosa? Curious about older, shorter-chainstayed, fat 
tire Rivs? Now's your chance. 

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA




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Re: [RBW] Re: WTB: Parts for a Build

[Doug H.]

Gunner,
No worries. I think the M12 is designed for cantilever brakes and I'll be
using v-brakes.  I appreciate the post.
Doug

On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 10:14 AM 'Gerard Gunhouse' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Doug
>
> Forgive me for the premature earlier posting. I recently sold a frame and
> due to my misunderstanding had not realized the buyer had committed to
> purchasing the B17 saddle I had offered to you. The Nitto rack is
> definitely still available.
>
> Apologies
>
> Gunner
> On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 7:49:26 AM UTC-4 Gerard Gunhouse wrote:
>
>>
>> Doug
>>
>> I am not sure if you have completed your parts want list, I do have the
>> following pieces:
>>
>> Brooks B17 Special (antique brown)  (slightly used) $100
>> Nitto M12 Campee front rack (new) $75
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Gerard Gunhouse
>> Atlanta
>> On Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 10:44:16 AM UTC-4 Doug H. wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry for another WTB post but my parts acquisition is nearing an end
>>> with a few more needed. If you have any of the following please reach out:
>>>
>>> Paul Thumbie mount: black preferred
>>> Brooks B17 antique brown or black
>>> Ergon cork grips new or slightly used
>>> Brass bell
>>> Blue or black headset spacers (one inch)
>>> Front rack
>>> Crank bolt wrench
>>>
>>> Thanks to all who have reached out and/or sold parts for my build.
>>> Doug
>>> Athens, Ga
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Anyone know what this is?

[E. Ricky Creek]

I don't have a drivetrain that is even remotely as clean as that one. 
I recently bought two chain rests from Columbine Cycles (Riv used to sell 
them). http://www.columbinecycle.com/store-accessory.php


On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 9:40:34 AM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> It's a chain rest. I've had chain rests, though much simpler in design, 
> added to my customs, though much higher on the stay because the frames are 
> designed for single cogs. Very helpful when removing the wheel on sandy 
> verges.
>
> On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 7:35 AM Johnny Alien  wrote:
>
>> I just picked up a Saluki and it has this odd thing attached to the 
>> frame. I have no idea what it is? Some sort of device to hold the chain for 
>> some reason? Anyone see anything like this before? 
>>
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>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Anyone know what this is?

['JRStern11' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I have a 55 Bleriot that I bought because the 56 Saluki was too large. Enjoy.

Sent from ProtonMail Mobile

On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 9:57 AM, Johnny Alien  wrote:

> I did! I got it late yesterday so didn't get a chance to ride it but I am 
> super excited. I have been without a Rivendell for a few years. My first 
> Rivendell was a 53cm Bleriot so this should be very similar.
>
> On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 9:54:06 AM UTC-4 Joel S wrote:
>
>> You got the 54cm, congrats.
>>
>> On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 9:35:51 AM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>
>>> I just picked up a Saluki and it has this odd thing attached to the frame. 
>>> I have no idea what it is? Some sort of device to hold the chain for some 
>>> reason? Anyone see anything like this before?
>
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Re: [RBW] Anyone know what this is?

[Patrick Moore]

It's a chain rest. I've had chain rests, though much simpler in design,
added to my customs, though much higher on the stay because the frames are
designed for single cogs. Very helpful when removing the wheel on sandy
verges.

On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 7:35 AM Johnny Alien 
wrote:

> I just picked up a Saluki and it has this odd thing attached to the frame.
> I have no idea what it is? Some sort of device to hold the chain for some
> reason? Anyone see anything like this before?
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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> 
> .
>


-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[RBW] Re: WTB: Parts for a Build

['Gerard Gunhouse' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Doug

Forgive me for the premature earlier posting. I recently sold a frame and 
due to my misunderstanding had not realized the buyer had committed to 
purchasing the B17 saddle I had offered to you. The Nitto rack is 
definitely still available.

Apologies

Gunner 
On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 7:49:26 AM UTC-4 Gerard Gunhouse wrote:

>
> Doug
>
> I am not sure if you have completed your parts want list, I do have the 
> following pieces:
>
> Brooks B17 Special (antique brown)  (slightly used) $100
> Nitto M12 Campee front rack (new) $75
>
> Regards
>
> Gerard Gunhouse
> Atlanta
> On Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 10:44:16 AM UTC-4 Doug H. wrote:
>
>> Sorry for another WTB post but my parts acquisition is nearing an end 
>> with a few more needed. If you have any of the following please reach out:
>>
>> Paul Thumbie mount: black preferred
>> Brooks B17 antique brown or black
>> Ergon cork grips new or slightly used
>> Brass bell
>> Blue or black headset spacers (one inch)
>> Front rack
>> Crank bolt wrench
>>
>> Thanks to all who have reached out and/or sold parts for my build.
>> Doug
>> Athens, Ga
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Anyone know what this is?

[Johnny Alien]

I did! I got it late yesterday so didn't get a chance to ride it but I am 
super excited. I have been without a Rivendell for a few years. My first 
Rivendell was a 53cm Bleriot so this should be very similar.

On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 9:54:06 AM UTC-4 Joel S wrote:

> You got the 54cm, congrats.  
>
> On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 9:35:51 AM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:
>
>> I just picked up a Saluki and it has this odd thing attached to the 
>> frame. I have no idea what it is? Some sort of device to hold the chain for 
>> some reason? Anyone see anything like this before?
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Anyone know what this is?

['Joel S' via RBW Owners Bunch]

You got the 54cm, congrats.  

On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 9:35:51 AM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:

> I just picked up a Saluki and it has this odd thing attached to the frame. 
> I have no idea what it is? Some sort of device to hold the chain for some 
> reason? Anyone see anything like this before?

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[RBW] Re: Anyone know what this is?

[Justin]

I believe it's a fancy way of holding the chain for when removing the 
wheel. Never seen one like it though.

On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 9:35:51 AM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:

> I just picked up a Saluki and it has this odd thing attached to the frame. 
> I have no idea what it is? Some sort of device to hold the chain for some 
> reason? Anyone see anything like this before?

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[RBW] Re: WTB: Parts for a Build

['Gerard Gunhouse' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Doug

I am not sure if you have completed your parts want list, I do have the 
following pieces:

Brooks B17 Special (antique brown)  (slightly used) $100
Nitto M12 Campee front rack (new) $75

Regards

Gerard Gunhouse
Atlanta
On Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 10:44:16 AM UTC-4 Doug H. wrote:

> Sorry for another WTB post but my parts acquisition is nearing an end with 
> a few more needed. If you have any of the following please reach out:
>
> Paul Thumbie mount: black preferred
> Brooks B17 antique brown or black
> Ergon cork grips new or slightly used
> Brass bell
> Blue or black headset spacers (one inch)
> Front rack
> Crank bolt wrench
>
> Thanks to all who have reached out and/or sold parts for my build.
> Doug
> Athens, Ga
>

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Re: [RBW] Interesting Riv

[Ian A]

The frame has some of the details of a Canti Long Low without the Joe Bell 
paint. The fork has some type of mid fork braze on (looking at the photos 
on mobile). Mid fork braze ons weren't really a Riv thing in the beginning, 
were they? It almost looks like the frame was given an 
available/appropriate fork. Probably a nicely made fork nonetheless.

It is clearly a quality bike and probably rides wonderfully. I rather like 
the patina too. 

IanA Alberta Canada

On Friday, June 25, 2021 at 11:17:27 AM UTC-6 Joe Bernard wrote:

> The lugs look right, but you're right about the fork. Maybe that's why it 
> didn't turn into a production frame this way? But yeah, we need the serial 
> number. 
>
>
>
> On Friday, June 25, 2021 at 7:57:47 AM UTC-7 Cyclofiend Jim wrote:
>
>> The "Protovelo" stickers were later - maybe '05 or so...  they were 
>> created to sell frames which were laying about in the warehouse. I've never 
>> seen those applied to bikes which weren't pretty close to production models 
>> - might have used a different dropout without fender/rack mounts or had 
>> braze-ons for cable routing in a weird place. Most I've seen had received 
>> quality powder coating or paint.
>>
>> It does seem to have a "star" under the bottle boss, but Riv were't the 
>> only ones doing those types of details. 
>>
>> On Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 6:13:24 AM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I always thought Rivendell marked their prototypes as Protovelo
>>> On Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 7:14:13 AM UTC-4 Steven Sweedler wrote:
>>>
 I had a similar Road Custom that was designed around 700 x 28s 
 w/cantis. This was before longer reach dual pivots were introduced. Steve

 On Thu, Jun 24, 2021 at 2:49 AM dub...@hotmail.com  
 wrote:

> Hi Team,
>
> Purchased this one on ebay and the story is that its a Prototype 
> Rivendell 
>
> Anyone have any ideas on it's back ground?
>
> SN M1
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Adrian the Aussie
>
> -- 
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>  
> 
> .
>
 -- 
 Steven Sweedler
 Plymouth, New Hampshire

>>>

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