[RBW] Re: WTB: Big u-lock

[Joe Bernard]

Got one. 

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 4:05:41 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I know it's a random thing to WTB but I've sold a few locks here over the 
> years and now need one back! I have a little one which is basically useless 
> to me, anybody got a big u-lock they're not using?
>
> Thanks, 
> Joe Bernard 
>

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[RBW] Re: All Time Best Paint Color

[Corwin Zechar]

My favorite color has to be the deep purple of my original - and soon to be 
reincarnated custom.

I will admit I am a big fan of the orange creamsicle as well. Especially 
now that I have an orange creamsicle Ram to look at every day.

On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 4:08:42 PM UTC-7 Keith P. wrote:

>
> I've been going down the archive rabbit hole and am curious of the bunch's 
> thoughts (opinions).
>
> *What is the best factory Rivendell paint color to date?*
>
> Give me your hot takes - and photos if you've got 'em.
>

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[RBW] WTB: Big u-lock

[Joe Bernard]

I know it's a random thing to WTB but I've sold a few locks here over the 
years and now need one back! I have a little one which is basically useless 
to me, anybody got a big u-lock they're not using?

Thanks, 
Joe Bernard 

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Re: [RBW] Do Roadinis ride tall?

[Karl Wilcox]

I am 6’6” tall, so I ride ‘tall’ no matter what.  I ride a 61cm Roadini,
but do not find that it rides taller than my other frames (I have a 69cm
Mercian frame, for example).  But, I also ride with my bars about 1 inch
below saddle height.  If you lowered your bars, the feeling of riding tall
would probably change.

On Saturday, September 10, 2022, Piaw Na  wrote:

> I recently acquired a Roadini, and I've been puzzling over the way it
> rides. It feels a lot taller than my custom touring bike, which was itself
> based on a 1993 Bridgestone RB-1 geometry with longer chainstays (43cm) and
> a 80mm BB drop. The Roadini has a 75mm BB drop, and I've got 28mm tires on
> the Roadini vs 25mm on my touring bike, so in theory, that's only an 8mm
> difference in BB height. But when I ride the Roadini it feels a lot taller
> than that! Strangely enough, that doesn't affect handling on climbs or on
> gravel, but on descents it makes me slow down quite a bit in comparison
> with my custom bike. Did anyone experience anything similar?
>
> I've attached my frame geometry, and the Roadini 54cm geometry is here:
> https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1403/7343/files/ROADINI-540-Geo.jpg?
> 7649874663519573416
>
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> .
>

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[RBW] Re: All Time Best Paint Color

[Danny Noonan]

I am very partial to the mustard that some older Clems came in – I would 
immediately jump at the opportunity to buy a mustard Clem H.

Also love the dark gold the recent Sams came in, and the current Homer blue.

Le samedi 10 septembre 2022 à 15:23:46 UTC-7, Huston a écrit :

> Many have touched on these classics, which constitute 3 of my 4 favorites:
>
> Early Riv blue
> Toyo Atlantis green (which I call Smyrna green)
> Sam orange
>
> I'll throw in one more: All Rounder bronze/brown as seen here 
> .
>
> Huston
> Lexington, KY
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 7:08:42 PM UTC-4 Keith P. wrote:
>
>>
>> I've been going down the archive rabbit hole and am curious of the 
>> bunch's thoughts (opinions).
>>
>> *What is the best factory Rivendell paint color to date?*
>>
>> Give me your hot takes - and photos if you've got 'em.
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: All Time Best Paint Color

[Huston]

Many have touched on these classics, which constitute 3 of my 4 favorites:

Early Riv blue
Toyo Atlantis green (which I call Smyrna green)
Sam orange

I'll throw in one more: All Rounder bronze/brown as seen here 
.

Huston
Lexington, KY



On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 7:08:42 PM UTC-4 Keith P. wrote:

>
> I've been going down the archive rabbit hole and am curious of the bunch's 
> thoughts (opinions).
>
> *What is the best factory Rivendell paint color to date?*
>
> Give me your hot takes - and photos if you've got 'em.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Do Roadinis ride tall?

[Piaw Na]

According to https://www.bikecalc.com/wheel_size_math, it'll take a 1.75" 
tire on 650b to match a 700x25 tire on 700c. No question the Roadini would 
ride taller than the 1.5" tires on my wife's Cheviot. I think I once tried 
1.75" tires on that bike and she didn't like it at all and made me size 
down the tires.

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 2:10:10 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> My answer is yes. I had a 54 Roadini for a while (great bike, shoulda kept 
> it) and it felt markedly taller (higher off the road) than various 650B 
> Rivs I've owned. Fat tired 650B vs. skinnier 700C should be similar 
> diameters so I think the higher BB on Roadini must indeed be noticeable. 
> This is not a criticism in my case, the frame was quite zippy and fun! 
>
> On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 11:49:42 AM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Clearly I'm too old school to be slamming anything!
>>
>> On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 10:01:13 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> Google "Slam that Stem" and see what the kids are doing.  It's amusing.  
>>> Best of luck with your Roadini.  
>>>
>>> On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 9:38:24 AM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 The bike can take 42mm tires though! I always feel like you should 
 design the bike for the biggest tire you intend to use. I've never heard 
 the term "slam the stem." I assume that means to put it down as low as 
 possible? Right now I have it set up level with my seat just like my 
 touring bike. I'm not sure I want it any lower, but it's worth a shot to 
 see if my back aches. I have no intention of replacing the Roadini, which 
 rides nice enough. My intention was to have it be a backup bike for my 
 touring bike, since this is the 3rd frame I'm on from Carl Strong and he's 
 retiring so that lifetime warranty isn't going to work any more. I may put 
 38mm tires on it and treat it like a MTB. :-)

 On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 9:27:17 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> The Roadini GEO-Chart on rivbike says the drop is 75, but also shows 
> the bike set up with a 33mm tire.  I think 75 is the correct drop for 
> 622x33mm tires.  I agree with you that 80mm is the correct drop for 
> 38-40mm 
> tires (like a Hilsen).  I don't think any of that has anything to do with 
> Grant riding fixies and forgetting how to design road bikes.  :)  
>
> I don't think a rider can meaningfully feel a 5mm difference in BB 
> drop.  I think what you are feeling is likely Stack related.  A 54cm 
> Roadini is a bigger bike than a 56cm RB1.  Is your stem slammed?  Slam 
> that 
> stem! :)
> If you want to split the difference, ride your Roadini for now, and 
> get a deposit in on a Nobilette Roadeo.  Sell the Roadini when it 
> arrives, 
> and off you go.  I'm not sure if you'd prefer a 57 Roadeo, or maybe a 55? 
>  
>
> BL in EC
>
> On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 9:06:15 AM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I had a 56cm 1993 RB-1 (which died when a Volvo C70 broadsided me on 
>> a residential street). So ok, my impression that the Roadini is a taller 
>> bike makes sense. When I first talked to Will he thought I would fit a 
>> 57cm, but after I told him my intention to use drop bars he went and 
>> remeasured the bike and decided the 54cm made more sense. I'm glad I 
>> didn't 
>> go for a 57! Clearly bike sizes are like shoe sizes --- they seem to 
>> change 
>> year to year even from the same designer! I did give Grant a hard time 
>> for 
>> not making the Roadini a 80mm BB drop bike like the Hilsen. (The Hilsen 
>> wasn't a consideration --- it used 135mm wheels, which I don't have, and 
>> the chainstays are even longer --- the Roadini's long stays already make 
>> certain sharp steep climbs not as much fun to ride!) My thoughts are 
>> that 
>> with the trend to larger/wider tire sizes BB drop should be even lower, 
>> especially for those of us who aren't aggressively pedaling around 
>> corners. 
>> But Grant rides fixies and he pedals around corners so I'm going to lose 
>> that argument every time.
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 8:59 AM Bill Lindsay  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The legendary Piaw Na asked for a comparison of the 54cm Roadini 
>>> with a 1993 RB-1. 
>>>
>>> What size 1993 RB-1 are you comparing?
>>>
>>> Back in 1993, I would have chosen a 56cm RB1 for myself, and that 
>>> would have been for a Lemond-ish race fit.  I probably would have run a 
>>> 120mm extension stem, basically slammed.  My Saddle Height is 75.5cm.  
>>> I 
>>> worked at a Bridgestone dealer to the end and had my 56cm Bridgestone 
>>> setup 
>>> dialed.  The 1994 RB2, which had the identical geometry to the RB1, got 
>>> blown out at the end for $250 complete on my 

Re: [RBW] WTB/ISO: Nitto Technomic Deluxe

[Todd G]

Bumping this thread again. After running a 100mm for a month or so, I think 
I’d like to try a 90mm Technomic Deluxe. 

If you’ve got one that you’d like to move along please message offline. 
FWIW, every now and then Gmail sends group messages to the spam folder, so 
if I don’t respond within a day or so, don’t hesitate to shoot me another 
message or reply here. Thanks!

On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 11:34:48 AM UTC-7 lug...@gmail.com wrote:

> Call it $40 USD plus shipping 
>
> peter stock
> toronto canada
>
> On Sun., Aug. 21, 2022, 2:30 p.m. Peter Stock,  wrote:
>
>> In fact my 80mm Technomic stem is stamped  26.0.
>> My error.
>> Does this help?
>>
>> peter stock
>> toronto canada
>>
>> On Fri., Aug. 19, 2022, 8:21 p.m. James,  wrote:
>>
>>> I am interested!  I can always use a shim to fit a 25.4, but can't move 
>>> up from 25.4 to 26
>>>
>>> On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 6:59:57 PM UTC-4 lug...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 i've got an 80mm. but I have it catalogued as 25.4
 if it's interesting, I'll double check that clamp diam tomorrow.

 Peter Stock
 Toronto, Canada


 On Fri, Aug 19, 2022 at 5:52 PM James  wrote:

> A lotta stems floating around here and it seems like OP got their 
> needs met.  I'll try my luck for a tallux, 80mm with a 26mm clamp.  PM me 
> if you've got one you want to sell
> On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 4:04:33 PM UTC-4 phoen...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone, I was able to source a 100mmm stem locally. Thus far, 
>> the 100 feels good so I think that I’ll run it for now. If I need to go 
>> shorter I’ll bump this thread. 
>>
>> Thanks for all of the offers, what a great group!
>>
>> Todd
>>
>> On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 10:53:25 AM UTC-7 lug...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have a Technomic in 80 length. maybe too short.
>>> but I have it listed as having a 25.4 clamp diameter. But I could 
>>> check that.
>>> let me know if you are set or if an 80 could help.
>>> Peter
>>> Peter Stock
>>> Toronto, Canada
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 18, 2022 at 4:44 PM Todd G  wrote:
>>>
 Hi Seth, thanks for the offer! I’m wanting to bring the reach in a 
 little bit, so I’m looking for a 90 or 100 Deluxe at this point. GLWS!

 On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 11:45:55 AM UTC-7 Seth wrote:

> I have a 120mm still in the package and unopened if you decide you 
> want a bit more reach. 
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 17, 2022 at 1:54 PM Todd G  wrote:
>
>> Looking for a 90 or 100mm Technomic Deluxe or NP stem with a 26mm 
>> clamp. Doesn’t need to be pristine, but does need to be in nice 
>> shape. 
>>
>> Please let me know if you have one or both to part with, Thanks!
>>
>> -- 
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>> send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>> 
>> .
>>
> -- 
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> incomprehensible text or strange autocorrect errors... /* Seth C. 
> Kruckenberg, kruck...@gmail.com */
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 -- 

Re: [RBW] Re: Do Roadinis ride tall?

[Joe Bernard]

My answer is yes. I had a 54 Roadini for a while (great bike, shoulda kept 
it) and it felt markedly taller (higher off the road) than various 650B 
Rivs I've owned. Fat tired 650B vs. skinnier 700C should be similar 
diameters so I think the higher BB on Roadini must indeed be noticeable. 
This is not a criticism in my case, the frame was quite zippy and fun! 

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 11:49:42 AM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> Clearly I'm too old school to be slamming anything!
>
> On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 10:01:13 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> Google "Slam that Stem" and see what the kids are doing.  It's amusing.  
>> Best of luck with your Roadini.  
>>
>> On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 9:38:24 AM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The bike can take 42mm tires though! I always feel like you should 
>>> design the bike for the biggest tire you intend to use. I've never heard 
>>> the term "slam the stem." I assume that means to put it down as low as 
>>> possible? Right now I have it set up level with my seat just like my 
>>> touring bike. I'm not sure I want it any lower, but it's worth a shot to 
>>> see if my back aches. I have no intention of replacing the Roadini, which 
>>> rides nice enough. My intention was to have it be a backup bike for my 
>>> touring bike, since this is the 3rd frame I'm on from Carl Strong and he's 
>>> retiring so that lifetime warranty isn't going to work any more. I may put 
>>> 38mm tires on it and treat it like a MTB. :-)
>>>
>>> On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 9:27:17 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
 The Roadini GEO-Chart on rivbike says the drop is 75, but also shows 
 the bike set up with a 33mm tire.  I think 75 is the correct drop for 
 622x33mm tires.  I agree with you that 80mm is the correct drop for 
 38-40mm 
 tires (like a Hilsen).  I don't think any of that has anything to do with 
 Grant riding fixies and forgetting how to design road bikes.  :)  

 I don't think a rider can meaningfully feel a 5mm difference in BB 
 drop.  I think what you are feeling is likely Stack related.  A 54cm 
 Roadini is a bigger bike than a 56cm RB1.  Is your stem slammed?  Slam 
 that 
 stem! :)
 If you want to split the difference, ride your Roadini for now, and get 
 a deposit in on a Nobilette Roadeo.  Sell the Roadini when it arrives, and 
 off you go.  I'm not sure if you'd prefer a 57 Roadeo, or maybe a 55?  

 BL in EC

 On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 9:06:15 AM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> I had a 56cm 1993 RB-1 (which died when a Volvo C70 broadsided me on a 
> residential street). So ok, my impression that the Roadini is a taller 
> bike 
> makes sense. When I first talked to Will he thought I would fit a 57cm, 
> but 
> after I told him my intention to use drop bars he went and remeasured the 
> bike and decided the 54cm made more sense. I'm glad I didn't go for a 57! 
> Clearly bike sizes are like shoe sizes --- they seem to change year to 
> year 
> even from the same designer! I did give Grant a hard time for not making 
> the Roadini a 80mm BB drop bike like the Hilsen. (The Hilsen wasn't a 
> consideration --- it used 135mm wheels, which I don't have, and the 
> chainstays are even longer --- the Roadini's long stays already make 
> certain sharp steep climbs not as much fun to ride!) My thoughts are that 
> with the trend to larger/wider tire sizes BB drop should be even lower, 
> especially for those of us who aren't aggressively pedaling around 
> corners. 
> But Grant rides fixies and he pedals around corners so I'm going to lose 
> that argument every time.
>
> On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 8:59 AM Bill Lindsay  
> wrote:
>
>> The legendary Piaw Na asked for a comparison of the 54cm Roadini with 
>> a 1993 RB-1. 
>>
>> What size 1993 RB-1 are you comparing?
>>
>> Back in 1993, I would have chosen a 56cm RB1 for myself, and that 
>> would have been for a Lemond-ish race fit.  I probably would have run a 
>> 120mm extension stem, basically slammed.  My Saddle Height is 75.5cm.  I 
>> worked at a Bridgestone dealer to the end and had my 56cm Bridgestone 
>> setup 
>> dialed.  The 1994 RB2, which had the identical geometry to the RB1, got 
>> blown out at the end for $250 complete on my employee deal, so I set up 
>> one 
>> of those as my primary road bike for a few years.  It was my first road 
>> bike with a compact double, which was life changing.  
>>
>> Anyway, now I'm 53, and today I have an RB1.  It's a 1992.  My less 
>> race-oriented setup  puts me on a 59cm RB1, with a slightly shorter 
>> extension stem (100mm) and not slammed.  :)  
>>
>> I also used to own a Leo Roadini, and I ran a 57cm.  A 57cm Leo 
>> Roadini is a MUCH larger bike than a 1992 

[RBW] Re: TK's Custom

[Joe Bernard]

I'd love to know when this project started. Until further notice I shall 
believe TK saw my bike and wanted one, too!*

*I can't even take credit for it, mine was based on another 
somwhat-dropped-toptube custom I saw on Riv's site. 
On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 11:11:20 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Agreed Bill, I don't see on my frame how the pump would mount if it had 
> that ball bearing-looking thingy on it. But it's cool! 
>
> On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 10:19:52 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> The Campy head in your photo wedges into an acute angle.  Gravity, 
>> pulling the pump down, would wedge the pump in TIGHTER, which keeps it in 
>> place.  Try to remove the pump by just pressing it down at the Campy head 
>> end.  You probably can't do it.  It's self-securing.  
>>
>> That same Campy head, pressed into an obtuse angle may hold steady with 
>> the bike parked.  Bounce over a bump, as the pump slips down, it becomes 
>> LOOSER, and eventually falls out.  You'd need a strap to keep it secure
>>
>> BL in EC
>>
>> On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 10:04:54 AM UTC-7 Jingy wrote:
>>
>>> I bet an old Silca with a Campy head would work with that pump peg.
>>> The blue color reminds me of my 96 All-Rounder Blue-Grey, but just a bit 
>>> lighter
>>>
>>> Jim in Mpls
>>> [image: ar2.jpg]
>>>
>>> On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 11:09:38 AM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
 Does anybody have a theory on how one would use that adorable pump 
 peg?  The opposing frame angle is obtuse.  In order for a normal pump peg 
 to work, the opposing frame angle needs to be acute so you have something 
 to springload the pump into.  Step throughs  with a pump peg typically 
 have 
 another pump peg at that other end for that reason.  I can't see how TK is 
 actually going to fit a pump except with a velcro strap.  I must be 
 missing 
 the intended use case, because Nobilette, Grant, and/or Joe Bell would 
 have 
 said "wait a sec.  Is that what you really want?"  Maybe TK has a 
 particular use case in mind.  On the surface, that looks like a half-done 
 frame feature.  

 Bill Lindsay
 El Cerrito, CA

 On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 4:50:37 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Check this out from the latest Riv email, it looks like mine! I also 
> got my paint inspiration from Mark Abele's custom, this one is a little 
> darker than mine and closer to Mark's. So pretty. 
>
>
> https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news/tks-custom?mc_cid=1ae4dd7598_eid=6ddd470367
>


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Re: [RBW] New Roadinis will have clearance for 42 mm tires

[藍俊彪]

Short of taking calipers to the tire I don't know how you would know that's
truly a 44mm tire. I put Michelin Pro Race 4 Endurance 700x28 on my
Velocity Aerohead OC and they measure 27mm. I put Continental GP 5000
700x30 on my Mavic Kysrium and they measure 27mm. Makes me think that the
size markings on the tires are just science fiction. I will note that on my
Roadini the pads are definitely not all the way at the bottom of the slots.

On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 1:20 PM M Talley  wrote:

> I was wondering about tire clearance and found a Soma Pescadero
>  (longer reach rim
> brake synergy between Riv and Merry Sales) with 44mm wide WTB Byways on
> Velocity A23 rims.  Even this doesn't look like it's maxed out. That's from
> the perspective of the brake arch only.  One has to wonder about getting an
> inflated wheel out  . .  quick vs not-so-quick.
> The Roadinin's brake bridge is moved upward and the fork legs are longer
> but if all the rest is the same as the original designs it seems there are
> limits might be the widths of chain/seat stays and the width of the fork
> crown. Gotta wonder why the mind drifts towards even-wider tires.
>
> On Tuesday, September 6, 2022 at 9:24:44 AM UTC-4 Andrew Turner wrote:
>
>> Once these roadini's start getting built, I'd be curious to know what the
>> maximum size tire is with fenders. Seems like a solid rando option!
>> On Saturday, September 3, 2022 at 8:13:41 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> A very different wheel diameter and of course a different Rivendell
>>> frame, but depending on how precise the positioning of the brake mounting
>>> hole is placed in the crown, you might be able to use a normal reach single
>>> pivot.
>>>
>>> This is a Naches Pass measuring a bit over 41 mm on a 21 mm OW rim under
>>> the -- I forget; SunTour? Dia Compe? -- normal reach single pivot on my
>>> 1999 Joe Starck. Plenty of room, ditto in back.
>>>
>>> BTW, that single pivot with salmon Kool Stops is very strong and
>>> modulates very well.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 3, 2022 at 12:09 PM Ryan  wrote:
>>>
 Grand Cru do have a long-reach optionand are excellent paired with
 TRP brake levers in my opinion...have this combo on my Riv Road with Barlow
 Pass 32mm. Although...Velo-Orange brands 47-57mm as long reach and Roadini
 specs specify 63mm of reachtoo bad...so yeah I guess V-brakes or cantis
 would be more useful. Oh well


 https://velo-orange.com/collections/brakes/products/grand-cru-long-reach-brakes

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[RBW] Re: TK's Custom

[Ryan]

Yeah...I see what you guys mean...it's at best a right-angle junction , but 
pointier pump-pegs make a lot more sense. Maybe cool  but 
functionally...not so much IMO

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 1:11:20 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Agreed Bill, I don't see on my frame how the pump would mount if it had 
> that ball bearing-looking thingy on it. But it's cool! 
>
> On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 10:19:52 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> The Campy head in your photo wedges into an acute angle.  Gravity, 
>> pulling the pump down, would wedge the pump in TIGHTER, which keeps it in 
>> place.  Try to remove the pump by just pressing it down at the Campy head 
>> end.  You probably can't do it.  It's self-securing.  
>>
>> That same Campy head, pressed into an obtuse angle may hold steady with 
>> the bike parked.  Bounce over a bump, as the pump slips down, it becomes 
>> LOOSER, and eventually falls out.  You'd need a strap to keep it secure
>>
>> BL in EC
>>
>> On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 10:04:54 AM UTC-7 Jingy wrote:
>>
>>> I bet an old Silca with a Campy head would work with that pump peg.
>>> The blue color reminds me of my 96 All-Rounder Blue-Grey, but just a bit 
>>> lighter
>>>
>>> Jim in Mpls
>>> [image: ar2.jpg]
>>>
>>> On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 11:09:38 AM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
 Does anybody have a theory on how one would use that adorable pump 
 peg?  The opposing frame angle is obtuse.  In order for a normal pump peg 
 to work, the opposing frame angle needs to be acute so you have something 
 to springload the pump into.  Step throughs  with a pump peg typically 
 have 
 another pump peg at that other end for that reason.  I can't see how TK is 
 actually going to fit a pump except with a velcro strap.  I must be 
 missing 
 the intended use case, because Nobilette, Grant, and/or Joe Bell would 
 have 
 said "wait a sec.  Is that what you really want?"  Maybe TK has a 
 particular use case in mind.  On the surface, that looks like a half-done 
 frame feature.  

 Bill Lindsay
 El Cerrito, CA

 On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 4:50:37 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Check this out from the latest Riv email, it looks like mine! I also 
> got my paint inspiration from Mark Abele's custom, this one is a little 
> darker than mine and closer to Mark's. So pretty. 
>
>
> https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news/tks-custom?mc_cid=1ae4dd7598_eid=6ddd470367
>


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Re: [RBW] New Roadinis will have clearance for 42 mm tires

[M Talley]

I was wondering about tire clearance and found a Soma Pescadero 
 (longer reach rim 
brake synergy between Riv and Merry Sales) with 44mm wide WTB Byways on 
Velocity A23 rims.  Even this doesn't look like it's maxed out. That's from 
the perspective of the brake arch only.  One has to wonder about getting an 
inflated wheel out  . .  quick vs not-so-quick.
The Roadinin's brake bridge is moved upward and the fork legs are longer 
but if all the rest is the same as the original designs it seems there are 
limits might be the widths of chain/seat stays and the width of the fork 
crown. Gotta wonder why the mind drifts towards even-wider tires.

On Tuesday, September 6, 2022 at 9:24:44 AM UTC-4 Andrew Turner wrote:

> Once these roadini's start getting built, I'd be curious to know what the 
> maximum size tire is with fenders. Seems like a solid rando option! 
> On Saturday, September 3, 2022 at 8:13:41 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> A very different wheel diameter and of course a different Rivendell 
>> frame, but depending on how precise the positioning of the brake mounting 
>> hole is placed in the crown, you might be able to use a normal reach single 
>> pivot.
>>
>> This is a Naches Pass measuring a bit over 41 mm on a 21 mm OW rim under 
>> the -- I forget; SunTour? Dia Compe? -- normal reach single pivot on my 
>> 1999 Joe Starck. Plenty of room, ditto in back.
>>
>> BTW, that single pivot with salmon Kool Stops is very strong and 
>> modulates very well.
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 3, 2022 at 12:09 PM Ryan  wrote:
>>
>>> Grand Cru do have a long-reach optionand are excellent paired with 
>>> TRP brake levers in my opinion...have this combo on my Riv Road with Barlow 
>>> Pass 32mm. Although...Velo-Orange brands 47-57mm as long reach and Roadini 
>>> specs specify 63mm of reachtoo bad...so yeah I guess V-brakes or cantis 
>>> would be more useful. Oh well
>>>
>>>
>>> https://velo-orange.com/collections/brakes/products/grand-cru-long-reach-brakes
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Do Roadinis ride tall?

[Piaw Na]

Clearly I'm too old school to be slamming anything!

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 10:01:13 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Google "Slam that Stem" and see what the kids are doing.  It's amusing.  
> Best of luck with your Roadini.  
>
> On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 9:38:24 AM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> The bike can take 42mm tires though! I always feel like you should design 
>> the bike for the biggest tire you intend to use. I've never heard the term 
>> "slam the stem." I assume that means to put it down as low as possible? 
>> Right now I have it set up level with my seat just like my touring bike. 
>> I'm not sure I want it any lower, but it's worth a shot to see if my back 
>> aches. I have no intention of replacing the Roadini, which rides nice 
>> enough. My intention was to have it be a backup bike for my touring bike, 
>> since this is the 3rd frame I'm on from Carl Strong and he's retiring so 
>> that lifetime warranty isn't going to work any more. I may put 38mm tires 
>> on it and treat it like a MTB. :-)
>>
>> On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 9:27:17 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> The Roadini GEO-Chart on rivbike says the drop is 75, but also shows the 
>>> bike set up with a 33mm tire.  I think 75 is the correct drop for 622x33mm 
>>> tires.  I agree with you that 80mm is the correct drop for 38-40mm tires 
>>> (like a Hilsen).  I don't think any of that has anything to do with Grant 
>>> riding fixies and forgetting how to design road bikes.  :)  
>>>
>>> I don't think a rider can meaningfully feel a 5mm difference in BB 
>>> drop.  I think what you are feeling is likely Stack related.  A 54cm 
>>> Roadini is a bigger bike than a 56cm RB1.  Is your stem slammed?  Slam that 
>>> stem! :)
>>> If you want to split the difference, ride your Roadini for now, and get 
>>> a deposit in on a Nobilette Roadeo.  Sell the Roadini when it arrives, and 
>>> off you go.  I'm not sure if you'd prefer a 57 Roadeo, or maybe a 55?  
>>>
>>> BL in EC
>>>
>>> On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 9:06:15 AM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I had a 56cm 1993 RB-1 (which died when a Volvo C70 broadsided me on a 
 residential street). So ok, my impression that the Roadini is a taller 
 bike 
 makes sense. When I first talked to Will he thought I would fit a 57cm, 
 but 
 after I told him my intention to use drop bars he went and remeasured the 
 bike and decided the 54cm made more sense. I'm glad I didn't go for a 57! 
 Clearly bike sizes are like shoe sizes --- they seem to change year to 
 year 
 even from the same designer! I did give Grant a hard time for not making 
 the Roadini a 80mm BB drop bike like the Hilsen. (The Hilsen wasn't a 
 consideration --- it used 135mm wheels, which I don't have, and the 
 chainstays are even longer --- the Roadini's long stays already make 
 certain sharp steep climbs not as much fun to ride!) My thoughts are that 
 with the trend to larger/wider tire sizes BB drop should be even lower, 
 especially for those of us who aren't aggressively pedaling around 
 corners. 
 But Grant rides fixies and he pedals around corners so I'm going to lose 
 that argument every time.

 On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 8:59 AM Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> The legendary Piaw Na asked for a comparison of the 54cm Roadini with 
> a 1993 RB-1. 
>
> What size 1993 RB-1 are you comparing?
>
> Back in 1993, I would have chosen a 56cm RB1 for myself, and that 
> would have been for a Lemond-ish race fit.  I probably would have run a 
> 120mm extension stem, basically slammed.  My Saddle Height is 75.5cm.  I 
> worked at a Bridgestone dealer to the end and had my 56cm Bridgestone 
> setup 
> dialed.  The 1994 RB2, which had the identical geometry to the RB1, got 
> blown out at the end for $250 complete on my employee deal, so I set up 
> one 
> of those as my primary road bike for a few years.  It was my first road 
> bike with a compact double, which was life changing.  
>
> Anyway, now I'm 53, and today I have an RB1.  It's a 1992.  My less 
> race-oriented setup  puts me on a 59cm RB1, with a slightly shorter 
> extension stem (100mm) and not slammed.  :)  
>
> I also used to own a Leo Roadini, and I ran a 57cm.  A 57cm Leo 
> Roadini is a MUCH larger bike than a 1992 59cm Bridgestone RB1.  It's got 
> enormous stack and moderate reach.  I would call my 57cm Roadini as a 
> hair 
> larger than my current largest road bike, which is an Ebisu All Purpose 
> whose seat tube measures 60cm c-t-c, 61.5cm c-t-t.   The reach number is 
> about the same, but stack on the 57cm Roadini is taller.  
>
> I'd guess that a 54cm Leo Roadini would probably have a stack and 
> reach pretty similar to a 59cm RB1.  If the RB1 you are comparing was a 
> 59cm, then I would not expect the 54cm 

Re: [RBW] Re: Club Rides On A Racing Platypus

[Leah Peterson]

I’m *loving* these bike stories you guys are giving. Now that I’ve got club 
riding experience, I can better relate to your stories. 

Interesting observation about the comfort of the Trek - I wonder why it became 
uncomfortable when slowing? I can relate about the hills, too. We Riv riders 
are working harder on our hills than the rest. I stand up and PUSH on my pedals 
on our ascents. I feel like I need more weight to get them to turn faster, and 
I can feel the bikes behind me gaining. But once we crest the top I’m back up 
to pace again. I know I work harder on my bike, but I also think that makes me 
stronger. I am at my high school weight, or maybe less, and I have new muscles 
and even new circulation. I have augmented my riding with weight lifting and 
core about 6 days a week, and I think that helps my rides, too.

I can also relate to the bag comments - Marc (Sam rider with a Saddlesack) and 
I rode a club ride one day. One guy said to us, “You guys are ready for 
anything. Even a job interview…with your little briefcases.” 

Club rides are good, clean fun and a good way to challenge yourself. They don’t 
replace the best kind of riding - using your bike to go places and do things - 
but they are a good time.

Ryan and Feltovich - did either of you make any converts? Anyone want to try 
your Rivendell and then love the comfort?

L

> On Sep 10, 2022, at 12:51 PM, Ryan M.  wrote:
> 
> Club riding can be a lot of fun and quite rewarding. I always liked riding 
> with a group like that when I had the time...the fitness of it was great. 
> 
> I started out club riding on my Sam Hillborne with a Sackville handlebar bag 
> hooked up to a set of Nitto Noodles. My friend would make fun of me asking 
> why I needed a trout creel on the bike; I just answered that it was the 
> perfect size for a 6 pack of beer and a sandwich in case we needed a rest 
> stop. It was a great bike for riding with the slower or medium speed group. 
> Eventually I bought a carbon Trek and really started riding with the faster 
> group. Did it for a few years and I do think the bike setup helped with the 
> speed and I don't think I could have kept up with the group on my Sam. I did 
> buy a Roadeo and road that...and it was a great bike for club riding. That 
> carbon bike could climb a hill faster and more efficiently than the Hillborne 
> could, I can't deny that. The Roadeo was faster than the Sam too and really 
> about the same as the carbon bike for efficiency.  The thing about that 
> carbon Trek bike was that it was really comfortable for long rides provided I 
> was kinda hammering the pedals most of the time. As soon as the pace came 
> down to casual, the bike would become uncomfortable. The Rivs were 
> comfortable all the time.
> 
> It's always a sobering moment when the group gets blown away by the single 
> speed riding, flip flop sporting, floppy t-shirt and jean short wearing bike 
> shop employee who just looks like he is out for a Sunday stroll. 
> 
> 
>> On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 10:26:17 AM UTC-5 felt...@gmail.com wrote:
>> When we lived in minneapolis I rode with a small neighborhood group that did 
>> a weekly Sunday ride at a respectable pace. I was riding a Rambouillet back 
>> then: fenders, canvas saddle bag, shellacked bar tape, 33.333mm tires, etc. 
>> The other riders were on aluminum or CF bikes, of course. One day, we were 
>> doing our version of a paceline on a winding road near the U of M campus 
>> when we got passed by some shirtless college kid in jean shorts on a 
>> mountain bike. The group instinctively sped up to chase, but it was quickly 
>> obvious that we weren't going to catch him. Wry smiles and "holy crap, that 
>> kid was flying!" But the obvious point was that his speed wasn't really 
>> hindered that much by his upright/heavy bike and that the racy bikes and 
>> fancy clothes in our group were not making a significant difference to our 
>> middle-aged dadbod speeds. 
>> 
>>> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 8:05:49 PM UTC-6 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>>> wrote:
>>> Doug - congrats on your increasing fitness on your new bike! Bikes and 
>>> health are great investments. Despite demonstrating that speed and comfort 
>>> are NOT mutually exclusive, I have made zero converts. Absolutely no one is 
>>> rushing out to buy a Racing Platypus of their own. However, their gaze has 
>>> been shifted to using bikes as transportation/for errands, and there is 
>>> some interest in the club about getting Rivendells to that end. The club 
>>> recently asked 5 of us to present how we commute/shop by bike and two of us 
>>> were Rivendell owners, so that was pretty awesome. The club has been saying 
>>> it wants to broaden its focus and even changed its mission statement to be 
>>> more inclusive of all types of cycling. So, the winds of change are blowing.
>>> 
>>> Joe - I think you have to join a club ride. Your paint is Rad Red. That’s 
>>> racing paint.
>>> 
>>> I try to be a good 

[RBW] Re: TK's Custom

[Bill Lindsay]

The Campy head in your photo wedges into an acute angle.  Gravity, pulling 
the pump down, would wedge the pump in TIGHTER, which keeps it in place.  
Try to remove the pump by just pressing it down at the Campy head end.  You 
probably can't do it.  It's self-securing.  

That same Campy head, pressed into an obtuse angle may hold steady with the 
bike parked.  Bounce over a bump, as the pump slips down, it becomes 
LOOSER, and eventually falls out.  You'd need a strap to keep it secure

BL in EC

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 10:04:54 AM UTC-7 Jingy wrote:

> I bet an old Silca with a Campy head would work with that pump peg.
> The blue color reminds me of my 96 All-Rounder Blue-Grey, but just a bit 
> lighter
>
> Jim in Mpls
> [image: ar2.jpg]
>
> On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 11:09:38 AM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> Does anybody have a theory on how one would use that adorable pump peg?  
>> The opposing frame angle is obtuse.  In order for a normal pump peg to 
>> work, the opposing frame angle needs to be acute so you have something to 
>> springload the pump into.  Step throughs  with a pump peg typically have 
>> another pump peg at that other end for that reason.  I can't see how TK is 
>> actually going to fit a pump except with a velcro strap.  I must be missing 
>> the intended use case, because Nobilette, Grant, and/or Joe Bell would have 
>> said "wait a sec.  Is that what you really want?"  Maybe TK has a 
>> particular use case in mind.  On the surface, that looks like a half-done 
>> frame feature.  
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 4:50:37 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> Check this out from the latest Riv email, it looks like mine! I also got 
>>> my paint inspiration from Mark Abele's custom, this one is a little darker 
>>> than mine and closer to Mark's. So pretty. 
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news/tks-custom?mc_cid=1ae4dd7598_eid=6ddd470367
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: All Time Best Paint Color

[Jingy]

I think it's nearly impossible to pick an all time best color- Riv has had 
too many fabulous ones!
My buddy who was a big-wig at Surly once said to me "Rivendell always has 
the best colors!"

Jim in Mpls

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 9:00:07 AM UTC-5 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Here's another raw frame, Lyle's Ram. Yeah, it's not paint, but it's a 
> finish... or lack thereof! 
>
> [image: download.jpg]
>
> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 4:37:37 AM UTC-4 john...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Another vote for the red-grey Hunquapillar. There was a custom cyclocross 
>> bike with the same scheme on the old Riv staff bikes that I spent too much 
>> time staring at. 
>>
>> [image: hunq.jpg]
>>
>> Also a vote for the grilver Clem H. I own one, and it is a very nice, 
>> understated scheme. Goes really well with the classic olive green Carradice 
>> bags.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Johnny
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, 8 September 2022 at 22:54:21 UTC+2 Paul M wrote:
>>
>>> How about "Grilver"?
>>>
>>> On Thursday, 8 September 2022 at 12:03:01 UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 "Is it cheating if I say the best is this one?"

 It's not cheating if Grant makes Bicycle Belle Raspberry a production 
 color. Put it on a 30th Anniversary Mixte, GP! 
 On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 11:07:20 AM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding 
 Ding! wrote:

> [image: 5DB777E4-F431-416E-84F2-04154161C367.jpeg][image: 
> 20ACC827-BC28-4CC2-B0DB-890A2CC0F77D.jpeg]
>
> Is it cheating if I say the best is this one?
>
>
> On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 11:27:35 AM UTC-4 jrst...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I still like the early Rivendell blue frames, I’m also a sucker for a 
>> nice silver.  
>>
>> On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 7:08:42 PM UTC-4 Keith P. wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I've been going down the archive rabbit hole and am curious of the 
>>> bunch's thoughts (opinions).
>>>
>>> *What is the best factory Rivendell paint color to date?*
>>>
>>> Give me your hot takes - and photos if you've got 'em.
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Heat in the Bay

[rltilley]

We’re getting it in SoCal as well but nothing like that. We were up near 100 
but with high humidity for us. I can take the heat but am definitely not used 
to humid. We have rain now but at least it’s cooler.

Robert Tilley
San Diego, CA

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 10, 2022, at 7:51 AM, Collin A  wrote:
> 
> Tuesday it was 117 on my deck in downtown sacramento...literally the hottest 
> day ever recorded (in the past 160 years). It was so hot, our office building 
> shut down its HVAC system and lighting at 4 to conserve energy. I worked from 
> home that day and ended early, biked up along the American river, and floated 
> for a couple hours on the packraft. 
> 
> 
> Even with my AC cranked at max, my apartment could only maintain 84 deg. Its 
> an old victorian with "character." Oh, and then mosquito fire started later 
> that evening.
> 
> Collin in Sweatramento
> 
>> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 5:49:07 PM UTC-6 George Schick wrote:
>> Just got a regular email from Will announcing bike frame availability among 
>> other things.  "Other things" include his comment that last Tuesday the 
>> temps reached 114 degrees!!?  Isn't that a rare temperature for the Bay area 
>> in NoCal?
>> 
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Do Roadinis ride tall?

[Bill Lindsay]

Google "Slam that Stem" and see what the kids are doing.  It's amusing.  
Best of luck with your Roadini.  

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 9:38:24 AM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> The bike can take 42mm tires though! I always feel like you should design 
> the bike for the biggest tire you intend to use. I've never heard the term 
> "slam the stem." I assume that means to put it down as low as possible? 
> Right now I have it set up level with my seat just like my touring bike. 
> I'm not sure I want it any lower, but it's worth a shot to see if my back 
> aches. I have no intention of replacing the Roadini, which rides nice 
> enough. My intention was to have it be a backup bike for my touring bike, 
> since this is the 3rd frame I'm on from Carl Strong and he's retiring so 
> that lifetime warranty isn't going to work any more. I may put 38mm tires 
> on it and treat it like a MTB. :-)
>
> On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 9:27:17 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> The Roadini GEO-Chart on rivbike says the drop is 75, but also shows the 
>> bike set up with a 33mm tire.  I think 75 is the correct drop for 622x33mm 
>> tires.  I agree with you that 80mm is the correct drop for 38-40mm tires 
>> (like a Hilsen).  I don't think any of that has anything to do with Grant 
>> riding fixies and forgetting how to design road bikes.  :)  
>>
>> I don't think a rider can meaningfully feel a 5mm difference in BB drop.  
>> I think what you are feeling is likely Stack related.  A 54cm Roadini is a 
>> bigger bike than a 56cm RB1.  Is your stem slammed?  Slam that stem! :)
>> If you want to split the difference, ride your Roadini for now, and get a 
>> deposit in on a Nobilette Roadeo.  Sell the Roadini when it arrives, and 
>> off you go.  I'm not sure if you'd prefer a 57 Roadeo, or maybe a 55?  
>>
>> BL in EC
>>
>> On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 9:06:15 AM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I had a 56cm 1993 RB-1 (which died when a Volvo C70 broadsided me on a 
>>> residential street). So ok, my impression that the Roadini is a taller bike 
>>> makes sense. When I first talked to Will he thought I would fit a 57cm, but 
>>> after I told him my intention to use drop bars he went and remeasured the 
>>> bike and decided the 54cm made more sense. I'm glad I didn't go for a 57! 
>>> Clearly bike sizes are like shoe sizes --- they seem to change year to year 
>>> even from the same designer! I did give Grant a hard time for not making 
>>> the Roadini a 80mm BB drop bike like the Hilsen. (The Hilsen wasn't a 
>>> consideration --- it used 135mm wheels, which I don't have, and the 
>>> chainstays are even longer --- the Roadini's long stays already make 
>>> certain sharp steep climbs not as much fun to ride!) My thoughts are that 
>>> with the trend to larger/wider tire sizes BB drop should be even lower, 
>>> especially for those of us who aren't aggressively pedaling around corners. 
>>> But Grant rides fixies and he pedals around corners so I'm going to lose 
>>> that argument every time.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 8:59 AM Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>>>
 The legendary Piaw Na asked for a comparison of the 54cm Roadini with a 
 1993 RB-1. 

 What size 1993 RB-1 are you comparing?

 Back in 1993, I would have chosen a 56cm RB1 for myself, and that would 
 have been for a Lemond-ish race fit.  I probably would have run a 120mm 
 extension stem, basically slammed.  My Saddle Height is 75.5cm.  I worked 
 at a Bridgestone dealer to the end and had my 56cm Bridgestone setup 
 dialed.  The 1994 RB2, which had the identical geometry to the RB1, got 
 blown out at the end for $250 complete on my employee deal, so I set up 
 one 
 of those as my primary road bike for a few years.  It was my first road 
 bike with a compact double, which was life changing.  

 Anyway, now I'm 53, and today I have an RB1.  It's a 1992.  My less 
 race-oriented setup  puts me on a 59cm RB1, with a slightly shorter 
 extension stem (100mm) and not slammed.  :)  

 I also used to own a Leo Roadini, and I ran a 57cm.  A 57cm Leo Roadini 
 is a MUCH larger bike than a 1992 59cm Bridgestone RB1.  It's got enormous 
 stack and moderate reach.  I would call my 57cm Roadini as a hair larger 
 than my current largest road bike, which is an Ebisu All Purpose whose 
 seat 
 tube measures 60cm c-t-c, 61.5cm c-t-t.   The reach number is about the 
 same, but stack on the 57cm Roadini is taller.  

 I'd guess that a 54cm Leo Roadini would probably have a stack and reach 
 pretty similar to a 59cm RB1.  If the RB1 you are comparing was a 59cm, 
 then I would not expect the 54cm Roadini to "ride taller".  If your RB1 
 is/was smaller than a 59cm, then YES, I think a 54cm Leo Roadini would 
 ride 
 taller, because of it's huge stack.  If, for example, your RB1 for 
 comparison was a 54.5cm size, then a 54cm Leo 

Re: [RBW] Re: Club Rides On A Racing Platypus

[Ryan M.]

Club riding can be a lot of fun and quite rewarding. I always liked riding 
with a group like that when I had the time...the fitness of it was great. 

I started out club riding on my Sam Hillborne with a Sackville handlebar 
bag hooked up to a set of Nitto Noodles. My friend would make fun of me 
asking why I needed a trout creel on the bike; I just answered that it was 
the perfect size for a 6 pack of beer and a sandwich in case we needed a 
rest stop. It was a great bike for riding with the slower or medium speed 
group. Eventually I bought a carbon Trek and really started riding with the 
faster group. Did it for a few years and I do think the bike setup helped 
with the speed and I don't think I could have kept up with the group on my 
Sam. I did buy a Roadeo and road that...and it was a great bike for club 
riding. That carbon bike could climb a hill faster and more efficiently 
than the Hillborne could, I can't deny that. The Roadeo was faster than the 
Sam too and really about the same as the carbon bike for efficiency.  The 
thing about that carbon Trek bike was that it was really comfortable for 
long rides provided I was kinda hammering the pedals most of the time. As 
soon as the pace came down to casual, the bike would become uncomfortable. 
The Rivs were comfortable all the time.

It's always a sobering moment when the group gets blown away by the single 
speed riding, flip flop sporting, floppy t-shirt and jean short wearing 
bike shop employee who just looks like he is out for a Sunday stroll. 


On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 10:26:17 AM UTC-5 felt...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> When we lived in minneapolis I rode with a small neighborhood group that 
> did a weekly Sunday ride at a respectable pace. I was riding a Rambouillet 
> back then: fenders, canvas saddle bag, shellacked bar tape, 33.333mm tires, 
> etc. The other riders were on aluminum or CF bikes, of course. One day, we 
> were doing our version of a paceline on a winding road near the U of M 
> campus when we got passed by some shirtless college kid in jean shorts on a 
> mountain bike. The group instinctively sped up to chase, but it was quickly 
> obvious that we weren't going to catch him. Wry smiles and "holy crap, that 
> kid was flying!" But the obvious point was that his speed wasn't really 
> hindered that much by his upright/heavy bike and that the racy bikes and 
> fancy clothes in our group were not making a significant difference to our 
> middle-aged dadbod speeds. 
>
> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 8:05:49 PM UTC-6 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> Doug - congrats on your increasing fitness on your new bike! Bikes and 
>> health are great investments. Despite demonstrating that speed and comfort 
>> are NOT mutually exclusive, I have made zero converts. Absolutely no one is 
>> rushing out to buy a Racing Platypus of their own. However, their gaze has 
>> been shifted to using bikes as transportation/for errands, and there is 
>> some interest in the club about getting Rivendells to that end. The club 
>> recently asked 5 of us to present how we commute/shop by bike and two of us 
>> were Rivendell owners, so that was pretty awesome. The club has been saying 
>> it wants to broaden its focus and even changed its mission statement to be 
>> more inclusive of all types of cycling. So, the winds of change are blowing.
>>
>> Joe - I think you have to join a club ride. Your paint is Rad Red. That’s 
>> racing paint.
>>
>> I try to be a good sport about the comments but they do get old. They 
>> just have to say something, though; I think it’s too much for them. They 
>> have subscribed to the racing school of thought and then a clear violator 
>> of the rules speeds by. If one can assign value to suffering, then that’s 
>> one thing. You can be willing to suffer if there’s a payoff. But what if 
>> you were riding an uncomfortable bike/saddle and wearing uncomfortable 
>> clothes/shoes/diaper butt for NO REASON? If you can be fast without that 
>> stuff, then what? Sacred cows. Being slaughtered.
>>
>> Anyway, I am not trying to rag on the racers. I love riding with the 
>> racers. We just see things differently, but I’m glad to know them.
>> L
>>
>> On Sep 9, 2022, at 9:01 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>
>> I love your smiling comeback to the guys. Personally if I was hammering 
>> on a carbon racer and a young lady on a pretty raspberry mixte with 
>> fenders, rack and dynohub beat me I wouldn't pull up in the parking lot and 
>> tell her she's doing it wrong. I'd ask what *I'm *doing wrong! 
>>
>>
>>
>> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 2:58:33 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I’ve continued my club rides this summer, and will soon get to 
>>> experience them in the fall. There is no question that these rides have 
>>> made me fitter; I can look back at my Apple Watch recordings and see it. 
>>> I’m sure everyone is fitter by the end of the season, actually. Before I 
>>> joined the group, my 

Re: [RBW] Re: Bosco vs. Boscomoose

[Richard Rose]

I actually have the Boscomoose. Just got it after first swapping out the 650 
wide Tosco for a 550 wide Bosco. I just finished a 21 mile mixed surface ride 
with the 580 wide Boscomoose on my Clem. I have plenty of length & a lot of 
flexibility with height. The 30mm / 3cm of extra width is noticeable, neither 
good or bad. Reach is very similar to the Bosco / FacePlater combo. The only 
issue I might have is the fixed, overly horizontal grip area. Seems most folks 
& Rivendell recommends at least a 7 degree angle down of the tips. Cannot get 
that angle with the ‘moose.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 10, 2022, at 12:12 PM, Mackenzy Albright  
> wrote:
> 
> I love my Boscomoose on my clementine. I think the 3mm wider bar makes the 
> 5mm shorter feel natural enough as long as you can get the bar low enough and 
> you have enough top tube. On the clementine the top tube is long and feels 
> good. Tried them on a Romanceur and the shorter TT wanted a lower bar with 
> longer stem so set up loscos. I also enjoy the extra security for off road 
> riding. If you can find a set and have the spare cash, give em a whirrl. 
> 
>> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 4:01:11 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>> Definitely ride it for a while before deciding. I just tilted my Billies up 
>> this week, it's probably the same angle my Boscomoose was now! 
>> 
>>> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 3:49:22 PM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> My judgement is likely a bit premature. I failed to mention that my Bosco 
>>> was 550 wide, the ‘moose 580. I did notice the solid feel straight away 
>>> although the FacePlater is very secure. Nice to have options.:)
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
> On Sep 9, 2022, at 6:37 PM, J J  wrote:
> 
 I have a Boscomoose on my Hunq. I guess I'm fortunate that the fixed tilt 
 angle works very well for me. I had run the regular Bosco with a stem, and 
 it felt less secure than the triangulated and reinforced Boscomoose, no 
 matter how tightly I clamped the stem to the bar (and you can only go so 
 tight anyway). 
>>> 
 
 So tilt adjustments aside, the Boscomoose feels more stable, stiffer, less 
 flexy, and certainly has less unwanted movement than the separate bar and 
 stem combo, especially on bumpy terrain and any riding that requires 
 weight on the bar. This is probably a much more significant consideration 
 for those of us who weigh more than 210 than it is for folks lighter than 
 that.
 
>> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 5:27:40 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>> I also learned this with the exact bars you're comparing. Bars that 
>> can't be adjusted for tilt are always a crapshoot and you're probably 
>> going to lose that bet unless the front end is really slack like a Clem 
>> or Gus/Susie. My custom IS that slack and they worked ok for me, but I 
>> still preferred the regular Bosco (which I then sold for a Billie, but 
>> that's another thread). 
>> 
>> Joe Bernard 
>> 
>>> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 2:11:45 PM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>> Or, when to leave well enough alone? I recently traded my 650 wide 
>>> Tosco for a 550 wide Bosco. This worked to let me achieve a higher bar 
>>> without exposing more stem & even gave me the flexibility of lowering 
>>> the stem a smidge. The narrower width gave me a more natural feeling 
>>> wrist angle and overall felt much more comfortable without loosing any 
>>> control. I liked it so much that it really made me want to try a 
>>> Boscomoose. 
>>> I am really interested in any others thoughts who may have compared the 
>>> Bosco & Boscomoose. My observations; even though the "extension" of the 
>>> 'moose is 120mm vs. my Faceplater's 135mm, there is in reality only 5mm 
>>> difference. This I assume is due to the upward angle of the Faceplater 
>>> extension - effectively shortening it. In any event the reach to the 
>>> bar ends is quite different. With the exact 120mm of exposed stem the 
>>> bar ends of the 'moose are nearly 2" higher than the Bosco! This I 
>>> presume is mostly due to the more horizontal & fixed angle nature of 
>>> the grip areas - they do not tilt down very much.
>>> I will probably play with these a bit more but unless I stumble on to 
>>> some adjustment magic I will be returning to the Bosco / Faceplater 
>>> combo. I had really high hopes for the Boscomoose because it just looks 
>>> so cool.
> 
 -- 
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 "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> 
> -- 

Re: [RBW] Re: Do Roadinis ride tall?

[Piaw Na]

The bike can take 42mm tires though! I always feel like you should design 
the bike for the biggest tire you intend to use. I've never heard the term 
"slam the stem." I assume that means to put it down as low as possible? 
Right now I have it set up level with my seat just like my touring bike. 
I'm not sure I want it any lower, but it's worth a shot to see if my back 
aches. I have no intention of replacing the Roadini, which rides nice 
enough. My intention was to have it be a backup bike for my touring bike, 
since this is the 3rd frame I'm on from Carl Strong and he's retiring so 
that lifetime warranty isn't going to work any more. I may put 38mm tires 
on it and treat it like a MTB. :-)

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 9:27:17 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> The Roadini GEO-Chart on rivbike says the drop is 75, but also shows the 
> bike set up with a 33mm tire.  I think 75 is the correct drop for 622x33mm 
> tires.  I agree with you that 80mm is the correct drop for 38-40mm tires 
> (like a Hilsen).  I don't think any of that has anything to do with Grant 
> riding fixies and forgetting how to design road bikes.  :)  
>
> I don't think a rider can meaningfully feel a 5mm difference in BB drop.  
> I think what you are feeling is likely Stack related.  A 54cm Roadini is a 
> bigger bike than a 56cm RB1.  Is your stem slammed?  Slam that stem! :)
> If you want to split the difference, ride your Roadini for now, and get a 
> deposit in on a Nobilette Roadeo.  Sell the Roadini when it arrives, and 
> off you go.  I'm not sure if you'd prefer a 57 Roadeo, or maybe a 55?  
>
> BL in EC
>
> On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 9:06:15 AM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I had a 56cm 1993 RB-1 (which died when a Volvo C70 broadsided me on a 
>> residential street). So ok, my impression that the Roadini is a taller bike 
>> makes sense. When I first talked to Will he thought I would fit a 57cm, but 
>> after I told him my intention to use drop bars he went and remeasured the 
>> bike and decided the 54cm made more sense. I'm glad I didn't go for a 57! 
>> Clearly bike sizes are like shoe sizes --- they seem to change year to year 
>> even from the same designer! I did give Grant a hard time for not making 
>> the Roadini a 80mm BB drop bike like the Hilsen. (The Hilsen wasn't a 
>> consideration --- it used 135mm wheels, which I don't have, and the 
>> chainstays are even longer --- the Roadini's long stays already make 
>> certain sharp steep climbs not as much fun to ride!) My thoughts are that 
>> with the trend to larger/wider tire sizes BB drop should be even lower, 
>> especially for those of us who aren't aggressively pedaling around corners. 
>> But Grant rides fixies and he pedals around corners so I'm going to lose 
>> that argument every time.
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 8:59 AM Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>>
>>> The legendary Piaw Na asked for a comparison of the 54cm Roadini with a 
>>> 1993 RB-1. 
>>>
>>> What size 1993 RB-1 are you comparing?
>>>
>>> Back in 1993, I would have chosen a 56cm RB1 for myself, and that would 
>>> have been for a Lemond-ish race fit.  I probably would have run a 120mm 
>>> extension stem, basically slammed.  My Saddle Height is 75.5cm.  I worked 
>>> at a Bridgestone dealer to the end and had my 56cm Bridgestone setup 
>>> dialed.  The 1994 RB2, which had the identical geometry to the RB1, got 
>>> blown out at the end for $250 complete on my employee deal, so I set up one 
>>> of those as my primary road bike for a few years.  It was my first road 
>>> bike with a compact double, which was life changing.  
>>>
>>> Anyway, now I'm 53, and today I have an RB1.  It's a 1992.  My less 
>>> race-oriented setup  puts me on a 59cm RB1, with a slightly shorter 
>>> extension stem (100mm) and not slammed.  :)  
>>>
>>> I also used to own a Leo Roadini, and I ran a 57cm.  A 57cm Leo Roadini 
>>> is a MUCH larger bike than a 1992 59cm Bridgestone RB1.  It's got enormous 
>>> stack and moderate reach.  I would call my 57cm Roadini as a hair larger 
>>> than my current largest road bike, which is an Ebisu All Purpose whose seat 
>>> tube measures 60cm c-t-c, 61.5cm c-t-t.   The reach number is about the 
>>> same, but stack on the 57cm Roadini is taller.  
>>>
>>> I'd guess that a 54cm Leo Roadini would probably have a stack and reach 
>>> pretty similar to a 59cm RB1.  If the RB1 you are comparing was a 59cm, 
>>> then I would not expect the 54cm Roadini to "ride taller".  If your RB1 
>>> is/was smaller than a 59cm, then YES, I think a 54cm Leo Roadini would ride 
>>> taller, because of it's huge stack.  If, for example, your RB1 for 
>>> comparison was a 54.5cm size, then a 54cm Leo Roadini is a much much bigger 
>>> bike than a 54.5cm 1993 RB1.  
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>> On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 7:57:45 AM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I recently acquired a Roadini, and I've been puzzling over the way it 
 rides. It feels a 

[RBW] Re: Bosco vs. Boscomoose

[Ryan M.]

I had the boscomoose on an old steel framed bike...can't even remember what 
the make of the frame was off hand...maybe an old Olmo. Anyway, the bars 
worked well for me on that bike but I never intended that bike to be a long 
distance rider. Basically, I used it on a greenway trail and around town 
and the uprightness of the bars really helped with that kind of riding. it 
got my head up and I could see over parked cars and other obstacles pretty 
well. It's a quite large/heavy bar and pretty wide/upright, so if you are 
into that kind of body positioning on the bike, it may work well for you. 
The lack of adjusting is the downside, of course. 

I've also used the chocomoose bars and the bullmoose bars, both of which I 
still have. Actually, the bullmoose is one of my favorite bars for my Frank 
Jones single speed and the choco is sitting in a closet waiting to be used 
on something again. I kind of dig the whole "moose" fixed stem thingy going 
on. 

The awesome thing about bar swapping is that you eventually settle on the 
ones you really like and you can sell off the ones you aren't getting along 
with fairly easily (if you like to constantly tinker with your bikes, which 
I do.) buy used and sell and you really don't lose too much, if any, money 
on the deal. 

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 4:11:45 PM UTC-5 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> Or, when to leave well enough alone? I recently traded my 650 wide Tosco 
> for a 550 wide Bosco. This worked to let me achieve a higher bar without 
> exposing more stem & even gave me the flexibility of lowering the stem a 
> smidge. The narrower width gave me a more natural feeling wrist angle and 
> overall felt much more comfortable without loosing any control. I liked it 
> so much that it really made me want to try a Boscomoose. 
> I am really interested in any others thoughts who may have compared the 
> Bosco & Boscomoose. My observations; even though the "extension" of the 
> 'moose is 120mm vs. my Faceplater's 135mm, there is in reality only 5mm 
> difference. This I assume is due to the upward angle of the Faceplater 
> extension - effectively shortening it. In any event the reach to the bar 
> ends is quite different. With the exact 120mm of exposed stem the bar ends 
> of the 'moose are nearly 2" higher than the Bosco! This I presume is mostly 
> due to the more horizontal & fixed angle nature of the grip areas - they do 
> not tilt down very much.
> I will probably play with these a bit more but unless I stumble on to some 
> adjustment magic I will be returning to the Bosco / Faceplater combo. I had 
> really high hopes for the Boscomoose because it just looks so cool.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Do Roadinis ride tall?

[Bill Lindsay]

The Roadini GEO-Chart on rivbike says the drop is 75, but also shows the 
bike set up with a 33mm tire.  I think 75 is the correct drop for 622x33mm 
tires.  I agree with you that 80mm is the correct drop for 38-40mm tires 
(like a Hilsen).  I don't think any of that has anything to do with Grant 
riding fixies and forgetting how to design road bikes.  :)  

I don't think a rider can meaningfully feel a 5mm difference in BB drop.  I 
think what you are feeling is likely Stack related.  A 54cm Roadini is a 
bigger bike than a 56cm RB1.  Is your stem slammed?  Slam that stem! :)
If you want to split the difference, ride your Roadini for now, and get a 
deposit in on a Nobilette Roadeo.  Sell the Roadini when it arrives, and 
off you go.  I'm not sure if you'd prefer a 57 Roadeo, or maybe a 55?  

BL in EC

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 9:06:15 AM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> I had a 56cm 1993 RB-1 (which died when a Volvo C70 broadsided me on a 
> residential street). So ok, my impression that the Roadini is a taller bike 
> makes sense. When I first talked to Will he thought I would fit a 57cm, but 
> after I told him my intention to use drop bars he went and remeasured the 
> bike and decided the 54cm made more sense. I'm glad I didn't go for a 57! 
> Clearly bike sizes are like shoe sizes --- they seem to change year to year 
> even from the same designer! I did give Grant a hard time for not making 
> the Roadini a 80mm BB drop bike like the Hilsen. (The Hilsen wasn't a 
> consideration --- it used 135mm wheels, which I don't have, and the 
> chainstays are even longer --- the Roadini's long stays already make 
> certain sharp steep climbs not as much fun to ride!) My thoughts are that 
> with the trend to larger/wider tire sizes BB drop should be even lower, 
> especially for those of us who aren't aggressively pedaling around corners. 
> But Grant rides fixies and he pedals around corners so I'm going to lose 
> that argument every time.
>
> On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 8:59 AM Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>
>> The legendary Piaw Na asked for a comparison of the 54cm Roadini with a 
>> 1993 RB-1. 
>>
>> What size 1993 RB-1 are you comparing?
>>
>> Back in 1993, I would have chosen a 56cm RB1 for myself, and that would 
>> have been for a Lemond-ish race fit.  I probably would have run a 120mm 
>> extension stem, basically slammed.  My Saddle Height is 75.5cm.  I worked 
>> at a Bridgestone dealer to the end and had my 56cm Bridgestone setup 
>> dialed.  The 1994 RB2, which had the identical geometry to the RB1, got 
>> blown out at the end for $250 complete on my employee deal, so I set up one 
>> of those as my primary road bike for a few years.  It was my first road 
>> bike with a compact double, which was life changing.  
>>
>> Anyway, now I'm 53, and today I have an RB1.  It's a 1992.  My less 
>> race-oriented setup  puts me on a 59cm RB1, with a slightly shorter 
>> extension stem (100mm) and not slammed.  :)  
>>
>> I also used to own a Leo Roadini, and I ran a 57cm.  A 57cm Leo Roadini 
>> is a MUCH larger bike than a 1992 59cm Bridgestone RB1.  It's got enormous 
>> stack and moderate reach.  I would call my 57cm Roadini as a hair larger 
>> than my current largest road bike, which is an Ebisu All Purpose whose seat 
>> tube measures 60cm c-t-c, 61.5cm c-t-t.   The reach number is about the 
>> same, but stack on the 57cm Roadini is taller.  
>>
>> I'd guess that a 54cm Leo Roadini would probably have a stack and reach 
>> pretty similar to a 59cm RB1.  If the RB1 you are comparing was a 59cm, 
>> then I would not expect the 54cm Roadini to "ride taller".  If your RB1 
>> is/was smaller than a 59cm, then YES, I think a 54cm Leo Roadini would ride 
>> taller, because of it's huge stack.  If, for example, your RB1 for 
>> comparison was a 54.5cm size, then a 54cm Leo Roadini is a much much bigger 
>> bike than a 54.5cm 1993 RB1.  
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 7:57:45 AM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I recently acquired a Roadini, and I've been puzzling over the way it 
>>> rides. It feels a lot taller than my custom touring bike, which was itself 
>>> based on a 1993 Bridgestone RB-1 geometry with longer chainstays (43cm) and 
>>> a 80mm BB drop. The Roadini has a 75mm BB drop, and I've got 28mm tires on 
>>> the Roadini vs 25mm on my touring bike, so in theory, that's only an 8mm 
>>> difference in BB height. But when I ride the Roadini it feels a lot taller 
>>> than that! Strangely enough, that doesn't affect handling on climbs or on 
>>> gravel, but on descents it makes me slow down quite a bit in comparison 
>>> with my custom bike. Did anyone experience anything similar?
>>>
>>> I've attached my frame geometry, and the Roadini 54cm geometry is here: 
>>> https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1403/7343/files/ROADINI-540-Geo.jpg?7649874663519573416
>>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
>> 

Re: [RBW] Re: Bosco vs. Boscomoose

[Mackenzy Albright]

I love my Boscomoose on my clementine. I think the 3mm wider bar makes the 
5mm shorter feel natural enough as long as you can get the bar low enough 
and you have enough top tube. On the clementine the top tube is long and 
feels good. Tried them on a Romanceur and the shorter TT wanted a lower bar 
with longer stem so set up loscos. I also enjoy the extra security for off 
road riding. If you can find a set and have the spare cash, give em a 
whirrl. 

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 4:01:11 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Definitely ride it for a while before deciding. I just tilted my Billies 
> up this week, it's probably the same angle my Boscomoose was now! 
>
> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 3:49:22 PM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> My judgement is likely a bit premature. I failed to mention that my Bosco 
>> was 550 wide, the ‘moose 580. I did notice the solid feel straight away 
>> although the FacePlater is very secure. Nice to have options.:)
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Sep 9, 2022, at 6:37 PM, J J  wrote:
>>
>> I have a Boscomoose on my Hunq. I guess I'm fortunate that the fixed 
>> tilt angle works very well for me. I had run the regular Bosco with a stem, 
>> and it felt less secure than the triangulated and reinforced Boscomoose, no 
>> matter how tightly I clamped the stem to the bar (and you can only go so 
>> tight anyway). 
>>
>>
>> So tilt adjustments aside, the Boscomoose feels more stable, stiffer, 
>> less flexy, and certainly has less unwanted movement than the separate bar 
>> and stem combo, especially on bumpy terrain and any riding that requires 
>> weight on the bar. This is probably a much more significant consideration 
>> for those of us who weigh more than 210 than it is for folks lighter than 
>> that.
>>
>> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 5:27:40 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> I also learned this with the exact bars you're comparing. Bars that 
>>> can't be adjusted for tilt are always a crapshoot and you're probably going 
>>> to lose that bet unless the front end is really slack like a Clem or 
>>> Gus/Susie. My custom IS that slack and they worked ok for me, but I still 
>>> preferred the regular Bosco (which I then sold for a Billie, but that's 
>>> another thread). 
>>>
>>> Joe Bernard 
>>>
>>> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 2:11:45 PM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Or, when to leave well enough alone? I recently traded my 650 wide 
 Tosco for a 550 wide Bosco. This worked to let me achieve a higher bar 
 without exposing more stem & even gave me the flexibility of lowering the 
 stem a smidge. The narrower width gave me a more natural feeling wrist 
 angle and overall felt much more comfortable without loosing any control. 
 I 
 liked it so much that it really made me want to try a Boscomoose. 
 I am really interested in any others thoughts who may have compared the 
 Bosco & Boscomoose. My observations; even though the "extension" of the 
 'moose is 120mm vs. my Faceplater's 135mm, there is in reality only 5mm 
 difference. This I assume is due to the upward angle of the Faceplater 
 extension - effectively shortening it. In any event the reach to the bar 
 ends is quite different. With the exact 120mm of exposed stem the bar ends 
 of the 'moose are nearly 2" higher than the Bosco! This I presume is 
 mostly 
 due to the more horizontal & fixed angle nature of the grip areas - they 
 do 
 not tilt down very much.
 I will probably play with these a bit more but unless I stumble on to 
 some adjustment magic I will be returning to the Bosco / Faceplater combo. 
 I had really high hopes for the Boscomoose because it just looks so cool.

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[RBW] Re: TK's Custom

[Bill Lindsay]

Does anybody have a theory on how one would use that adorable pump peg?  
The opposing frame angle is obtuse.  In order for a normal pump peg to 
work, the opposing frame angle needs to be acute so you have something to 
springload the pump into.  Step throughs  with a pump peg typically have 
another pump peg at that other end for that reason.  I can't see how TK is 
actually going to fit a pump except with a velcro strap.  I must be missing 
the intended use case, because Nobilette, Grant, and/or Joe Bell would have 
said "wait a sec.  Is that what you really want?"  Maybe TK has a 
particular use case in mind.  On the surface, that looks like a half-done 
frame feature.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 4:50:37 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Check this out from the latest Riv email, it looks like mine! I also got 
> my paint inspiration from Mark Abele's custom, this one is a little darker 
> than mine and closer to Mark's. So pretty. 
>
>
> https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news/tks-custom?mc_cid=1ae4dd7598_eid=6ddd470367
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Do Roadinis ride tall?

[藍俊彪]

I had a 56cm 1993 RB-1 (which died when a Volvo C70 broadsided me on a
residential street). So ok, my impression that the Roadini is a taller bike
makes sense. When I first talked to Will he thought I would fit a 57cm, but
after I told him my intention to use drop bars he went and remeasured the
bike and decided the 54cm made more sense. I'm glad I didn't go for a 57!
Clearly bike sizes are like shoe sizes --- they seem to change year to year
even from the same designer! I did give Grant a hard time for not making
the Roadini a 80mm BB drop bike like the Hilsen. (The Hilsen wasn't a
consideration --- it used 135mm wheels, which I don't have, and the
chainstays are even longer --- the Roadini's long stays already make
certain sharp steep climbs not as much fun to ride!) My thoughts are that
with the trend to larger/wider tire sizes BB drop should be even lower,
especially for those of us who aren't aggressively pedaling around corners.
But Grant rides fixies and he pedals around corners so I'm going to lose
that argument every time.

On Sat, Sep 10, 2022 at 8:59 AM Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> The legendary Piaw Na asked for a comparison of the 54cm Roadini with a
> 1993 RB-1.
>
> What size 1993 RB-1 are you comparing?
>
> Back in 1993, I would have chosen a 56cm RB1 for myself, and that would
> have been for a Lemond-ish race fit.  I probably would have run a 120mm
> extension stem, basically slammed.  My Saddle Height is 75.5cm.  I worked
> at a Bridgestone dealer to the end and had my 56cm Bridgestone setup
> dialed.  The 1994 RB2, which had the identical geometry to the RB1, got
> blown out at the end for $250 complete on my employee deal, so I set up one
> of those as my primary road bike for a few years.  It was my first road
> bike with a compact double, which was life changing.
>
> Anyway, now I'm 53, and today I have an RB1.  It's a 1992.  My less
> race-oriented setup  puts me on a 59cm RB1, with a slightly shorter
> extension stem (100mm) and not slammed.  :)
>
> I also used to own a Leo Roadini, and I ran a 57cm.  A 57cm Leo Roadini is
> a MUCH larger bike than a 1992 59cm Bridgestone RB1.  It's got enormous
> stack and moderate reach.  I would call my 57cm Roadini as a hair larger
> than my current largest road bike, which is an Ebisu All Purpose whose seat
> tube measures 60cm c-t-c, 61.5cm c-t-t.   The reach number is about the
> same, but stack on the 57cm Roadini is taller.
>
> I'd guess that a 54cm Leo Roadini would probably have a stack and reach
> pretty similar to a 59cm RB1.  If the RB1 you are comparing was a 59cm,
> then I would not expect the 54cm Roadini to "ride taller".  If your RB1
> is/was smaller than a 59cm, then YES, I think a 54cm Leo Roadini would ride
> taller, because of it's huge stack.  If, for example, your RB1 for
> comparison was a 54.5cm size, then a 54cm Leo Roadini is a much much bigger
> bike than a 54.5cm 1993 RB1.
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 7:57:45 AM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I recently acquired a Roadini, and I've been puzzling over the way it
>> rides. It feels a lot taller than my custom touring bike, which was itself
>> based on a 1993 Bridgestone RB-1 geometry with longer chainstays (43cm) and
>> a 80mm BB drop. The Roadini has a 75mm BB drop, and I've got 28mm tires on
>> the Roadini vs 25mm on my touring bike, so in theory, that's only an 8mm
>> difference in BB height. But when I ride the Roadini it feels a lot taller
>> than that! Strangely enough, that doesn't affect handling on climbs or on
>> gravel, but on descents it makes me slow down quite a bit in comparison
>> with my custom bike. Did anyone experience anything similar?
>>
>> I've attached my frame geometry, and the Roadini 54cm geometry is here:
>> https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1403/7343/files/ROADINI-540-Geo.jpg?7649874663519573416
>>
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[RBW] Re: Do Roadinis ride tall?

[Bill Lindsay]

The legendary Piaw Na asked for a comparison of the 54cm Roadini with a 
1993 RB-1. 

What size 1993 RB-1 are you comparing?

Back in 1993, I would have chosen a 56cm RB1 for myself, and that would 
have been for a Lemond-ish race fit.  I probably would have run a 120mm 
extension stem, basically slammed.  My Saddle Height is 75.5cm.  I worked 
at a Bridgestone dealer to the end and had my 56cm Bridgestone setup 
dialed.  The 1994 RB2, which had the identical geometry to the RB1, got 
blown out at the end for $250 complete on my employee deal, so I set up one 
of those as my primary road bike for a few years.  It was my first road 
bike with a compact double, which was life changing.  

Anyway, now I'm 53, and today I have an RB1.  It's a 1992.  My less 
race-oriented setup  puts me on a 59cm RB1, with a slightly shorter 
extension stem (100mm) and not slammed.  :)  

I also used to own a Leo Roadini, and I ran a 57cm.  A 57cm Leo Roadini is 
a MUCH larger bike than a 1992 59cm Bridgestone RB1.  It's got enormous 
stack and moderate reach.  I would call my 57cm Roadini as a hair larger 
than my current largest road bike, which is an Ebisu All Purpose whose seat 
tube measures 60cm c-t-c, 61.5cm c-t-t.   The reach number is about the 
same, but stack on the 57cm Roadini is taller.  

I'd guess that a 54cm Leo Roadini would probably have a stack and reach 
pretty similar to a 59cm RB1.  If the RB1 you are comparing was a 59cm, 
then I would not expect the 54cm Roadini to "ride taller".  If your RB1 
is/was smaller than a 59cm, then YES, I think a 54cm Leo Roadini would ride 
taller, because of it's huge stack.  If, for example, your RB1 for 
comparison was a 54.5cm size, then a 54cm Leo Roadini is a much much bigger 
bike than a 54.5cm 1993 RB1.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 7:57:45 AM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> I recently acquired a Roadini, and I've been puzzling over the way it 
> rides. It feels a lot taller than my custom touring bike, which was itself 
> based on a 1993 Bridgestone RB-1 geometry with longer chainstays (43cm) and 
> a 80mm BB drop. The Roadini has a 75mm BB drop, and I've got 28mm tires on 
> the Roadini vs 25mm on my touring bike, so in theory, that's only an 8mm 
> difference in BB height. But when I ride the Roadini it feels a lot taller 
> than that! Strangely enough, that doesn't affect handling on climbs or on 
> gravel, but on descents it makes me slow down quite a bit in comparison 
> with my custom bike. Did anyone experience anything similar?
>
> I've attached my frame geometry, and the Roadini 54cm geometry is here: 
> https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1403/7343/files/ROADINI-540-Geo.jpg?7649874663519573416
>

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[RBW] Re: TK's Custom

[Ryan]

You took the words right outta my mouth, Joe...it is a stunner! Can't wait 
to see how it's built up. Great color scheme!

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 6:50:37 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Check this out from the latest Riv email, it looks like mine! I also got 
> my paint inspiration from Mark Abele's custom, this one is a little darker 
> than mine and closer to Mark's. So pretty. 
>
>
> https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news/tks-custom?mc_cid=1ae4dd7598_eid=6ddd470367
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Club Rides On A Racing Platypus

[brian feltovich]

When we lived in minneapolis I rode with a small neighborhood group that 
did a weekly Sunday ride at a respectable pace. I was riding a Rambouillet 
back then: fenders, canvas saddle bag, shellacked bar tape, 33.333mm tires, 
etc. The other riders were on aluminum or CF bikes, of course. One day, we 
were doing our version of a paceline on a winding road near the U of M 
campus when we got passed by some shirtless college kid in jean shorts on a 
mountain bike. The group instinctively sped up to chase, but it was quickly 
obvious that we weren't going to catch him. Wry smiles and "holy crap, that 
kid was flying!" But the obvious point was that his speed wasn't really 
hindered that much by his upright/heavy bike and that the racy bikes and 
fancy clothes in our group were not making a significant difference to our 
middle-aged dadbod speeds. 

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 8:05:49 PM UTC-6 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> Doug - congrats on your increasing fitness on your new bike! Bikes and 
> health are great investments. Despite demonstrating that speed and comfort 
> are NOT mutually exclusive, I have made zero converts. Absolutely no one is 
> rushing out to buy a Racing Platypus of their own. However, their gaze has 
> been shifted to using bikes as transportation/for errands, and there is 
> some interest in the club about getting Rivendells to that end. The club 
> recently asked 5 of us to present how we commute/shop by bike and two of us 
> were Rivendell owners, so that was pretty awesome. The club has been saying 
> it wants to broaden its focus and even changed its mission statement to be 
> more inclusive of all types of cycling. So, the winds of change are blowing.
>
> Joe - I think you have to join a club ride. Your paint is Rad Red. That’s 
> racing paint.
>
> I try to be a good sport about the comments but they do get old. They just 
> have to say something, though; I think it’s too much for them. They have 
> subscribed to the racing school of thought and then a clear violator of the 
> rules speeds by. If one can assign value to suffering, then that’s one 
> thing. You can be willing to suffer if there’s a payoff. But what if you 
> were riding an uncomfortable bike/saddle and wearing uncomfortable 
> clothes/shoes/diaper butt for NO REASON? If you can be fast without that 
> stuff, then what? Sacred cows. Being slaughtered.
>
> Anyway, I am not trying to rag on the racers. I love riding with the 
> racers. We just see things differently, but I’m glad to know them.
> L
>
> On Sep 9, 2022, at 9:01 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
> I love your smiling comeback to the guys. Personally if I was hammering 
> on a carbon racer and a young lady on a pretty raspberry mixte with 
> fenders, rack and dynohub beat me I wouldn't pull up in the parking lot and 
> tell her she's doing it wrong. I'd ask what *I'm *doing wrong! 
>
>
>
> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 2:58:33 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> I’ve continued my club rides this summer, and will soon get to experience 
>> them in the fall. There is no question that these rides have made me 
>> fitter; I can look back at my Apple Watch recordings and see it. I’m sure 
>> everyone is fitter by the end of the season, actually. Before I joined the 
>> group, my normal trips were a mere 10 miles, and I was proud of that 
>> mileage. Now, is not uncommon for me to ride 28-30 miles on a club ride, 
>> and go out again on my own ride the same day. I just have to be careful 
>> that I get enough hydration and electrolytes, or I pay for it the next day. 
>> At the beginning of the season I was in the 14 mph group. The watch shows 
>> the “splits”, a mile by mile tracking of speed, and I can also see what my 
>> heart rate was doing - it was up in 140s and 150s. Now I’m in the 16 mph 
>> group and we exceed 16 regularly, but my heart rate is still slower at high 
>> speeds than it was when I was in the slower group. I’ve considered riding 
>> with a group going 17, but I would be pushing and I have to think it’s hard 
>> on one’s heart to push it for upwards of 2 hours. 
>>
>> Today’s women’s ride was a hilly route that took us through vineyard 
>> after vineyard. Wait until you smell the grapes, they told me. Did you know 
>> that grapes have a scent? I did not. They smell exactly like grape juice, 
>> which I did not expect, since I’ve never eaten a grape that tasted like 
>> grape juice. Also of note from today: a near tragedy. The ride starts at a 
>> park. The group was circled up, waiting for the last woman to arrive. She 
>> approached on the 2 lane road, 2 vehicles behind her. She was lit up, had 
>> her arm wide out, signaling to turn left. A woman near me began to scream 
>> NO NO NO NO NO NO!! The truck directly behind her slowed, but the one 
>> behind him decided to pass. He nearly killed Anne. She was unharmed but 
>> deeply shaken. 
>>
>> I’ve learned a lot about road safety and being a good group member by 
>> 

Re: [RBW] Re: Club Rides On A Racing Platypus

[RichS]

Leah,

Your club ride stories are very enjoyable. From a Vegas Lone Wolf to a full 
on Michigan "clubbie". Great that you found such a nice bunch to ride with!
Speaking of club rides, the Clarion National Cycling Club is your kind of 
club — and would be mine. Check out this group. Cheers!
https://membermojo.co.uk/cotswold-clarion-cycling-club/

Best,
Rich in ATL (wishing it was the Cotswolds)

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 10:05:49 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> Doug - congrats on your increasing fitness on your new bike! Bikes and 
> health are great investments. Despite demonstrating that speed and comfort 
> are NOT mutually exclusive, I have made zero converts. Absolutely no one is 
> rushing out to buy a Racing Platypus of their own. However, their gaze has 
> been shifted to using bikes as transportation/for errands, and there is 
> some interest in the club about getting Rivendells to that end. The club 
> recently asked 5 of us to present how we commute/shop by bike and two of us 
> were Rivendell owners, so that was pretty awesome. The club has been saying 
> it wants to broaden its focus and even changed its mission statement to be 
> more inclusive of all types of cycling. So, the winds of change are blowing.
>
> Joe - I think you have to join a club ride. Your paint is Rad Red. That’s 
> racing paint.
>
> I try to be a good sport about the comments but they do get old. They just 
> have to say something, though; I think it’s too much for them. They have 
> subscribed to the racing school of thought and then a clear violator of the 
> rules speeds by. If one can assign value to suffering, then that’s one 
> thing. You can be willing to suffer if there’s a payoff. But what if you 
> were riding an uncomfortable bike/saddle and wearing uncomfortable 
> clothes/shoes/diaper butt for NO REASON? If you can be fast without that 
> stuff, then what? Sacred cows. Being slaughtered.
>
> Anyway, I am not trying to rag on the racers. I love riding with the 
> racers. We just see things differently, but I’m glad to know them.
> L
>
> On Sep 9, 2022, at 9:01 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
> I love your smiling comeback to the guys. Personally if I was hammering 
> on a carbon racer and a young lady on a pretty raspberry mixte with 
> fenders, rack and dynohub beat me I wouldn't pull up in the parking lot and 
> tell her she's doing it wrong. I'd ask what *I'm *doing wrong! 
>
>
>
> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 2:58:33 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> I’ve continued my club rides this summer, and will soon get to experience 
>> them in the fall. There is no question that these rides have made me 
>> fitter; I can look back at my Apple Watch recordings and see it. I’m sure 
>> everyone is fitter by the end of the season, actually. Before I joined the 
>> group, my normal trips were a mere 10 miles, and I was proud of that 
>> mileage. Now, is not uncommon for me to ride 28-30 miles on a club ride, 
>> and go out again on my own ride the same day. I just have to be careful 
>> that I get enough hydration and electrolytes, or I pay for it the next day. 
>> At the beginning of the season I was in the 14 mph group. The watch shows 
>> the “splits”, a mile by mile tracking of speed, and I can also see what my 
>> heart rate was doing - it was up in 140s and 150s. Now I’m in the 16 mph 
>> group and we exceed 16 regularly, but my heart rate is still slower at high 
>> speeds than it was when I was in the slower group. I’ve considered riding 
>> with a group going 17, but I would be pushing and I have to think it’s hard 
>> on one’s heart to push it for upwards of 2 hours. 
>>
>> Today’s women’s ride was a hilly route that took us through vineyard 
>> after vineyard. Wait until you smell the grapes, they told me. Did you know 
>> that grapes have a scent? I did not. They smell exactly like grape juice, 
>> which I did not expect, since I’ve never eaten a grape that tasted like 
>> grape juice. Also of note from today: a near tragedy. The ride starts at a 
>> park. The group was circled up, waiting for the last woman to arrive. She 
>> approached on the 2 lane road, 2 vehicles behind her. She was lit up, had 
>> her arm wide out, signaling to turn left. A woman near me began to scream 
>> NO NO NO NO NO NO!! The truck directly behind her slowed, but the one 
>> behind him decided to pass. He nearly killed Anne. She was unharmed but 
>> deeply shaken. 
>>
>> I’ve learned a lot about road safety and being a good group member by 
>> calling out road hazards and taking my turn leading the group so the ride 
>> leaders can rest. I love all the scenery and the wildlife and the crops. We 
>> see animals and flowers and lakes on every ride. It’s a feast for the eyes, 
>> and I love that I can sit upright to fully see and appreciate them. I look 
>> down at my raspberry bike and I love that we get to do this together. The 
>> camaraderie is enjoyable; it is good to be with bike people, even 

Re: [RBW] Heat in the Bay

[Piaw Na]

It's been brutal. I've been getting up at 5:00am to get my ride in.

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 5:56:37 PM UTC-7 row.n.2...@gmail.com wrote:

> Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. 99' in Colorado. 3 records broken
>
> On Fri, Sep 9, 2022, 6:53 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
>> You think "media" have it wrong and "these numbers have been exaggerated 
>> all week" ? I don't understand your implication here. 
>>
>> On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 5:32:12 PM UTC-7 kwi...@weimar.edu wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, 114 is extremely rare in the East Bay, but I live up in the hills 
>>> of the North Bay (Napa Valley) and while we were told by media that our 
>>> high was 112, my weather station under my covered front porch (shade) 
>>> indicated a high of 91 degrees.  I also did my 30 mile ride with a six mile 
>>> climb at 12.00 noon, and did not ‘feel’ like I was climbing in extreme 
>>> heat.  These numbers have been exaggerated all week, but maybe these are 
>>> urban temps; not rural.
>>>
>>> On Friday, September 9, 2022, George Schick  wrote:
>>>
 Just got a regular email from Will announcing bike frame availability 
 among other things.  "Other things" include his comment that last Tuesday 
 the temps reached 114 degrees!!?  Isn't that a rare temperature for the 
 Bay 
 area in NoCal?

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 .

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Baggage For Sale

[James M]

Hi, Karl. Count me in for the #8 Baggins bag 

James

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 2:20:48 PM UTC-4 Karl wrote:

> Needing to dramatically downsize my "stuff" so, first post is my Rivendell 
> Bags I have had collecting dust and Golden Retriever hair! If interested, 
> please note the number on the photo for the bag when replying. Let me know 
> if I am crazy high on pricing. More fun stuff to come (Quickbeam wheels, 
> Paul brakes, etc!) Thanks All!
>
> Photos Here 
>
> #1- Duluth Candy Bar Bag- Some spotting. Good shape- $50 shipped
>
> #2- Baggins Candy Bar Bag- Some beausage- $40 Shipped
>
> #3- Baggins Banana-ish Bag- Shorter “tail” than other banana I have. Also, 
> this has a zipper- $50 shipped
>
> #4- Baggins Little Joe (Pretty sure) Hole in bottom, but still has some 
> miles- $50 shipped
>
> #5- Sackville Musette Bag- $40 Shipped
>
> #6- Sackville Big Bag (Don’t remember the model)- $120 Shipped
>
> #7- Sackville Big Bag (Also.. Don’t remember the model)- $120 Shipped
>
> #8- Baggins Adam (?)- Good shape- $100 Shipped
>
> #9- Rivendell Vegan Rack Bag- $30 Shipped
>
> Karl in Nashville, TN
>

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