Re: [RBW] Dialing in a Brooks Saddle

[Ron Mc]

My bikes with B-17 are semi upright.  

My bikes with level saddle/stem and drop bars are Swallow or Pro

On Wednesday, January 31, 2024 at 1:50:46 AM UTC-6 Steven Sweedler wrote:

> FWIW my bikes are set up with B-17 s level and  with the bars level to the 
> saddle, works for me. 
>
> Steven Sweedler
> Plymouth, New Hampshire
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2024 at 3:27 AM Jay  wrote:
>
>> Next week I'll be throwing a leg over a Roadini for the first time (I 
>> posted a couple weeks ago about the frame I ordered) and I thought I was 
>> set on my saddle, but decided yesterday I need to try something very 
>> different.  
>>
>> A little bit of background before I get to my question...
>>
>> When I started cycling around 20 years ago I had Brooks B17 on my road 
>> bike (custom geometry, not too aggressive) and a Masi commuter bike.  It 
>> was a while ago so I can't recall what I liked about them, and why I 
>> eventually stopped using them, but I do recall one memory...I always used 
>> padded bib shorts (still do) and one day in the winter I went for a 2hr 
>> ride and only realized when I got home that I just had on my underwear and 
>> tights.  In at least that way for me at that time, the saddle was that 
>> comfortable.
>>
>> Since that time I've used a lot of plastic saddles from Fizik, Selle 
>> Italia and the latest is a Prologo (147mm wide, with a bit of padding).  I 
>> used this saddle on two bikes the last 4 months and it was a noticeable 
>> improvement over the Selle Italia saddles I was using previously.  I 
>> thought this is what I would use on the Roadini (and still may, in the long 
>> run).  But when I use it on my Salsa Fargo (bar level with saddle) and ride 
>> for 2+ hours, I get friction and general discomfort.  And can I ride 
>> without padded bib shorts?  Heck no, I can't even go around my block 
>> without bibs when using this saddle.
>>
>> To get to my point, I ordered a B17 in Honey to try out on my Roadini.  
>> I'm getting it tomorrow and I'm going to try it on my Fargo (nice weather 
>> for next little while).  I know that overall I need to be patient, only 
>> change one thing at a time, and only small adjustments.
>>
>> My thinking, where I wanted to get your input, is that I would be set up 
>> the bike so saddle and bars are level, and will likely start with the 
>> saddle level (from what I recall this will have the rear of the saddle 
>> where my sit bones are located, pointed down a bit, but that's how my 
>> Prologo is today and I can ride in the drops and take my hands off and I'm 
>> balanced...so I think I'll start there and see how it goes).
>>
>> Any other words of wisdom that I can consider?  Thanks in advance.
>>
>> -- 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Dialing in a Brooks Saddle

[Richard Rose]

Jay, my experience only…I read on the Analog site I think, that a B17 properly adjusted does not need a break in to be comfortable. I concur. My first B17 may have come to me with a few miles on it but it was sublimely comfortable as soon as I got the nose up. Probably important to note that I am bolt upright Lon my Clem with Bosco bar higher than the saddle by at least a couple of inches. Based on that experience I ordered a brand new B17 for my Gus. I replicated my position including nose up & that is even more comfortable. I do not know if the nose up thing works on a more road oriented position especially with drops? And, I have not worn padded shorts in a long time. 100% merino boxers for me. Prior to being gifted the first B17 I had a B67 on the Clem. It was very good but when I reluctantly tried the B17 I never looked back.Sent from my iPhoneOn Jan 30, 2024, at 10:27 PM, Jay  wrote:Next week I'll be throwing a leg over a Roadini for the first time (I posted a couple weeks ago about the frame I ordered) and I thought I was set on my saddle, but decided yesterday I need to try something very different.  A little bit of background before I get to my question...When I started cycling around 20 years ago I had Brooks B17 on my road bike (custom geometry, not too aggressive) and a Masi commuter bike.  It was a while ago so I can't recall what I liked about them, and why I eventually stopped using them, but I do recall one memory...I always used padded bib shorts (still do) and one day in the winter I went for a 2hr ride and only realized when I got home that I just had on my underwear and tights.  In at least that way for me at that time, the saddle was that comfortable.Since that time I've used a lot of plastic saddles from Fizik, Selle Italia and the latest is a Prologo (147mm wide, with a bit of padding).  I used this saddle on two bikes the last 4 months and it was a noticeable improvement over the Selle Italia saddles I was using previously.  I thought this is what I would use on the Roadini (and still may, in the long run).  But when I use it on my Salsa Fargo (bar level with saddle) and ride for 2+ hours, I get friction and general discomfort.  And can I ride without padded bib shorts?  Heck no, I can't even go around my block without bibs when using this saddle.To get to my point, I ordered a B17 in Honey to try out on my Roadini.  I'm getting it tomorrow and I'm going to try it on my Fargo (nice weather for next little while).  I know that overall I need to be patient, only change one thing at a time, and only small adjustments.My thinking, where I wanted to get your input, is that I would be set up the bike so saddle and bars are level, and will likely start with the saddle level (from what I recall this will have the rear of the saddle where my sit bones are located, pointed down a bit, but that's how my Prologo is today and I can ride in the drops and take my hands off and I'm balanced...so I think I'll start there and see how it goes).Any other words of wisdom that I can consider?  Thanks in advance.



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Re: [RBW] Dialing in a Brooks Saddle

[Doug H.]

I too have tried B17s level and it doesn't work for me. The nose up 
slightly is my preferred setting. It looks odd to my eyes when I'm not on 
the bike and I've seen them turned up much farther than I would like. It 
seems that there are many variations of bums and you have to adjust to your 
comfort. Let us know how you like the Roadini!
Doug

On Wednesday, January 31, 2024 at 7:57:56 AM UTC-5 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> Jay, my experience only…
> I read on the Analog site I think, that a B17 properly adjusted does not 
> need a break in to be comfortable. I concur. My first B17 may have come to 
> me with a few miles on it but it was sublimely comfortable as soon as I got 
> the nose up. Probably important to note that I am bolt upright Lon my Clem 
> with Bosco bar higher than the saddle by at least a couple of inches. Based 
> on that experience I ordered a brand new B17 for my Gus. I replicated my 
> position including nose up & that is even more comfortable. I do not know 
> if the nose up thing works on a more road oriented position especially with 
> drops? And, I have not worn padded shorts in a long time. 100% merino 
> boxers for me. Prior to being gifted the first B17 I had a B67 on the Clem. 
> It was very good but when I reluctantly tried the B17 I never looked back.
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 30, 2024, at 10:27 PM, Jay  wrote:
>
> Next week I'll be throwing a leg over a Roadini for the first time (I 
> posted a couple weeks ago about the frame I ordered) and I thought I was 
> set on my saddle, but decided yesterday I need to try something very 
> different.  
>
>
> A little bit of background before I get to my question...
>
> When I started cycling around 20 years ago I had Brooks B17 on my road 
> bike (custom geometry, not too aggressive) and a Masi commuter bike.  It 
> was a while ago so I can't recall what I liked about them, and why I 
> eventually stopped using them, but I do recall one memory...I always used 
> padded bib shorts (still do) and one day in the winter I went for a 2hr 
> ride and only realized when I got home that I just had on my underwear and 
> tights.  In at least that way for me at that time, the saddle was that 
> comfortable.
>
> Since that time I've used a lot of plastic saddles from Fizik, Selle 
> Italia and the latest is a Prologo (147mm wide, with a bit of padding).  I 
> used this saddle on two bikes the last 4 months and it was a noticeable 
> improvement over the Selle Italia saddles I was using previously.  I 
> thought this is what I would use on the Roadini (and still may, in the long 
> run).  But when I use it on my Salsa Fargo (bar level with saddle) and ride 
> for 2+ hours, I get friction and general discomfort.  And can I ride 
> without padded bib shorts?  Heck no, I can't even go around my block 
> without bibs when using this saddle.
>
> To get to my point, I ordered a B17 in Honey to try out on my Roadini. 
>  I'm getting it tomorrow and I'm going to try it on my Fargo (nice weather 
> for next little while).  I know that overall I need to be patient, only 
> change one thing at a time, and only small adjustments.
>
> My thinking, where I wanted to get your input, is that I would be set up 
> the bike so saddle and bars are level, and will likely start with the 
> saddle level (from what I recall this will have the rear of the saddle 
> where my sit bones are located, pointed down a bit, but that's how my 
> Prologo is today and I can ride in the drops and take my hands off and I'm 
> balanced...so I think I'll start there and see how it goes).
>
> Any other words of wisdom that I can consider?  Thanks in advance.
>
> -- 
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d0f80866-732b-4e26-a534-795cf005e702n%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Dialing in a Brooks Saddle

[Eric Daume]

My technique for dialing in a Brooks:

1. Loosen seat post bolt
2. Remove Brooks saddle
3. Replace with any other plastic saddle I happen to have nearby
4. Enjoy the better comfort, less slipperiness, lighter weight, and zero
maintenance.

YMMV :)

Eric

On Tue, Jan 30, 2024 at 10:27 PM Jay  wrote:

> Next week I'll be throwing a leg over a Roadini for the first time (I
> posted a couple weeks ago about the frame I ordered) and I thought I was
> set on my saddle, but decided yesterday I need to try something very
> different.
>
> A little bit of background before I get to my question...
>
> When I started cycling around 20 years ago I had Brooks B17 on my road
> bike (custom geometry, not too aggressive) and a Masi commuter bike.  It
> was a while ago so I can't recall what I liked about them, and why I
> eventually stopped using them, but I do recall one memory...I always used
> padded bib shorts (still do) and one day in the winter I went for a 2hr
> ride and only realized when I got home that I just had on my underwear and
> tights.  In at least that way for me at that time, the saddle was that
> comfortable.
>
> Since that time I've used a lot of plastic saddles from Fizik, Selle
> Italia and the latest is a Prologo (147mm wide, with a bit of padding).  I
> used this saddle on two bikes the last 4 months and it was a noticeable
> improvement over the Selle Italia saddles I was using previously.  I
> thought this is what I would use on the Roadini (and still may, in the long
> run).  But when I use it on my Salsa Fargo (bar level with saddle) and ride
> for 2+ hours, I get friction and general discomfort.  And can I ride
> without padded bib shorts?  Heck no, I can't even go around my block
> without bibs when using this saddle.
>
> To get to my point, I ordered a B17 in Honey to try out on my Roadini.
> I'm getting it tomorrow and I'm going to try it on my Fargo (nice weather
> for next little while).  I know that overall I need to be patient, only
> change one thing at a time, and only small adjustments.
>
> My thinking, where I wanted to get your input, is that I would be set up
> the bike so saddle and bars are level, and will likely start with the
> saddle level (from what I recall this will have the rear of the saddle
> where my sit bones are located, pointed down a bit, but that's how my
> Prologo is today and I can ride in the drops and take my hands off and I'm
> balanced...so I think I'll start there and see how it goes).
>
> Any other words of wisdom that I can consider?  Thanks in advance.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] Dialing in a Brooks Saddle

[Steven Sweedler]

My first leather saddle was a Brooks Swallow, rode Bikecentennial on it,
when the rail broke in the early 90’s I switched to Pro’s , but have now
been on B-17s for at least 20 years, all on bikes w/drop bars.

Steven Sweedler
Plymouth, New Hampshire


On Wed, Jan 31, 2024 at 12:46 PM Ron Mc  wrote:

> My bikes with B-17 are semi upright.
>
> My bikes with level saddle/stem and drop bars are Swallow or Pro
>
> On Wednesday, January 31, 2024 at 1:50:46 AM UTC-6 Steven Sweedler wrote:
>
>> FWIW my bikes are set up with B-17 s level and  with the bars level to
>> the saddle, works for me.
>>
>> Steven Sweedler
>> Plymouth, New Hampshire
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2024 at 3:27 AM Jay  wrote:
>>
>>> Next week I'll be throwing a leg over a Roadini for the first time (I
>>> posted a couple weeks ago about the frame I ordered) and I thought I was
>>> set on my saddle, but decided yesterday I need to try something very
>>> different.
>>>
>>> A little bit of background before I get to my question...
>>>
>>> When I started cycling around 20 years ago I had Brooks B17 on my road
>>> bike (custom geometry, not too aggressive) and a Masi commuter bike.  It
>>> was a while ago so I can't recall what I liked about them, and why I
>>> eventually stopped using them, but I do recall one memory...I always used
>>> padded bib shorts (still do) and one day in the winter I went for a 2hr
>>> ride and only realized when I got home that I just had on my underwear and
>>> tights.  In at least that way for me at that time, the saddle was that
>>> comfortable.
>>>
>>> Since that time I've used a lot of plastic saddles from Fizik, Selle
>>> Italia and the latest is a Prologo (147mm wide, with a bit of padding).  I
>>> used this saddle on two bikes the last 4 months and it was a noticeable
>>> improvement over the Selle Italia saddles I was using previously.  I
>>> thought this is what I would use on the Roadini (and still may, in the long
>>> run).  But when I use it on my Salsa Fargo (bar level with saddle) and ride
>>> for 2+ hours, I get friction and general discomfort.  And can I ride
>>> without padded bib shorts?  Heck no, I can't even go around my block
>>> without bibs when using this saddle.
>>>
>>> To get to my point, I ordered a B17 in Honey to try out on my Roadini.
>>> I'm getting it tomorrow and I'm going to try it on my Fargo (nice weather
>>> for next little while).  I know that overall I need to be patient, only
>>> change one thing at a time, and only small adjustments.
>>>
>>> My thinking, where I wanted to get your input, is that I would be set up
>>> the bike so saddle and bars are level, and will likely start with the
>>> saddle level (from what I recall this will have the rear of the saddle
>>> where my sit bones are located, pointed down a bit, but that's how my
>>> Prologo is today and I can ride in the drops and take my hands off and I'm
>>> balanced...so I think I'll start there and see how it goes).
>>>
>>> Any other words of wisdom that I can consider?  Thanks in advance.
>>>
>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d0f80866-732b-4e26-a534-795cf005e702n%40googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>> --
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> 
> .
>

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[RBW] Re: Dialing in a Brooks Saddle

[alan lavine]

Hi Jay,
Your story sounds familiar. Twenty years ago, I was a dedicated Brooks 
man...loved the leather idea, the color, the aging, etc. And mine too, were 
comfortable right out of the box. N.B.  I have always been a fan of padded 
bibs and chamois cream.

Then the birthdays started to accumulate and my handlebars mysteriously 
levitated higher and closer, this changed things. And my dermatologist 
reminded me that as we age, the skin thins and we lose subcutaneous 
fat...and I'm a skinny butt guy to begin with. Ultimately, after an 
infinite numbers of adjustments, I had to give up two beautifully aged and 
broken in honey tan saddles.

As an aside, as I have lost some flexibility with age, and gained some 
degenerative spinal changes, what helped me was having a lower than 
predicted saddle height and a smaller saddle offset w/r to the BB. This may 
or may not help you.

Not to be pessimistic, but age changes everything. But you should 
definitely give a shot, trying all posible positions and angles. Best of 
luck ! 
Alan in NYC, adjusting to aging as. best I can.

On Tuesday, January 30, 2024 at 10:27:00 PM UTC-5 Jay wrote:

> Next week I'll be throwing a leg over a Roadini for the first time (I 
> posted a couple weeks ago about the frame I ordered) and I thought I was 
> set on my saddle, but decided yesterday I need to try something very 
> different.  
>
> A little bit of background before I get to my question...
>
> When I started cycling around 20 years ago I had Brooks B17 on my road 
> bike (custom geometry, not too aggressive) and a Masi commuter bike.  It 
> was a while ago so I can't recall what I liked about them, and why I 
> eventually stopped using them, but I do recall one memory...I always used 
> padded bib shorts (still do) and one day in the winter I went for a 2hr 
> ride and only realized when I got home that I just had on my underwear and 
> tights.  In at least that way for me at that time, the saddle was that 
> comfortable.
>
> Since that time I've used a lot of plastic saddles from Fizik, Selle 
> Italia and the latest is a Prologo (147mm wide, with a bit of padding).  I 
> used this saddle on two bikes the last 4 months and it was a noticeable 
> improvement over the Selle Italia saddles I was using previously.  I 
> thought this is what I would use on the Roadini (and still may, in the long 
> run).  But when I use it on my Salsa Fargo (bar level with saddle) and ride 
> for 2+ hours, I get friction and general discomfort.  And can I ride 
> without padded bib shorts?  Heck no, I can't even go around my block 
> without bibs when using this saddle.
>
> To get to my point, I ordered a B17 in Honey to try out on my Roadini. 
>  I'm getting it tomorrow and I'm going to try it on my Fargo (nice weather 
> for next little while).  I know that overall I need to be patient, only 
> change one thing at a time, and only small adjustments.
>
> My thinking, where I wanted to get your input, is that I would be set up 
> the bike so saddle and bars are level, and will likely start with the 
> saddle level (from what I recall this will have the rear of the saddle 
> where my sit bones are located, pointed down a bit, but that's how my 
> Prologo is today and I can ride in the drops and take my hands off and I'm 
> balanced...so I think I'll start there and see how it goes).
>
> Any other words of wisdom that I can consider?  Thanks in advance.
>

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Re: [RBW] Dialing in a Brooks Saddle

[Patrick Moore]

I was going to speak along similar lines, perhaps not as forthrightly. But
I found angle more critical on Brookses for some reason than on any other
saddle, including other leather makes.

After trying several B 17s, a B 17N, a Champion Flyer, and a Pro, the one
Brooks that I found comfortable *(very* comfortable except for tilt
adjustment) was the Pro -- the others chafed or pressed or obtruded. I
positioned the Pro tilted slightly up on a bike with drop bar below saddle.
But I could never get the tilt just right, and I had a rather nice seatpost
with separate angle adjustment bolt that allowed stepless adjustment. With
the slippery surface I was either sliding forward onto the bar or feeling
pressure, and after I had commuted on it for 18 or 24 months or so I went
back to original issue Flites which I now have on all my bikes.

I almost never ride in padded shorts and the lined shorts I occasionally
use have very thin chamoises or (1 pair) a very thin synthetic layer just
to prevent seam chafing -- I *hate* thick pads.




On Wed, Jan 31, 2024 at 6:04 AM Eric Daume  wrote:

> My technique for dialing in a Brooks:
>
> 1. Loosen seat post bolt
> 2. Remove Brooks saddle
> 3. Replace with any other plastic saddle I happen to have nearby
> 4. Enjoy the better comfort, less slipperiness, lighter weight, and zero
> maintenance.
>
> YMMV :)
>
> Eric
>

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Re: [RBW] Dialing in a Brooks Saddle

[Chris Halasz]

I've owned many B17 saddles, and there is variability, and in my 
experience, less variability in the Special than in the Standard. So if you 
don't like the B17 you try, it may just be you don't like *that* particular 
B17. 

I've always thought that Brooks should do a little pressure test mid-way on 
the saddle to address the variability in the leather. In my experience, 
some seem made for more robust torsos, and some for much less. I regret 
selling a just right one to a very nice person here in town, but am more 
pleased to know how well it suits him. 

For starters, I always adjust a B17 to nose up by a tip of the thumb 
thickness at the back from level. That gets me good enough. 

If further micro-adjustment is needed, I have a small round magnet that Riv 
provided with my Hobson Zingo (is that right?) Allen key that remains on 
the bike's head tube and then temporarily set my 4 or 5mm key handy and 
(ideally) have a seat post with a fore and aft screw for the adjustment. 

I recall an old video of Eddy Merckx micro adjusting his saddle height 
while out on a ride. Makes me feel just like Eddy. 

- Chris 

On Wednesday, January 31, 2024 at 9:26:36 AM UTC-8 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:

> I believe that it all depends on your riding posture in the angle of which 
> your pelvis and your seat bones rest on the saddle. See attachment diagram. 
>
> It is a personal choice and preference as much as one's bum is different 
> from the next person's. 
>
> I ride in an upright riding position my Clem with my B66S saddle's nose 
> titled up slightly. I wear padded cycling shorts. 
>
> Kim Hetzel
>
> On Wednesday, January 31, 2024 at 7:28:13 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> I was going to speak along similar lines, perhaps not as forthrightly. 
>> But I found angle more critical on Brookses for some reason than on any 
>> other saddle, including other leather makes.
>>
>> After trying several B 17s, a B 17N, a Champion Flyer, and a Pro, the one 
>> Brooks that I found comfortable *(very* comfortable except for tilt 
>> adjustment) was the Pro -- the others chafed or pressed or obtruded. I 
>> positioned the Pro tilted slightly up on a bike with drop bar below saddle. 
>> But I could never get the tilt just right, and I had a rather nice seatpost 
>> with separate angle adjustment bolt that allowed stepless adjustment. With 
>> the slippery surface I was either sliding forward onto the bar or feeling 
>> pressure, and after I had commuted on it for 18 or 24 months or so I went 
>> back to original issue Flites which I now have on all my bikes.
>>
>> I almost never ride in padded shorts and the lined shorts I occasionally 
>> use have very thin chamoises or (1 pair) a very thin synthetic layer just 
>> to prevent seam chafing -- I *hate* thick pads. 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2024 at 6:04 AM Eric Daume  wrote:
>>
>>> My technique for dialing in a Brooks:
>>>
>>> 1. Loosen seat post bolt
>>> 2. Remove Brooks saddle
>>> 3. Replace with any other plastic saddle I happen to have nearby
>>> 4. Enjoy the better comfort, less slipperiness, lighter weight, and zero 
>>> maintenance.
>>>
>>> YMMV :)
>>>
>>> Eric
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Mainstream press article pushing steel bike?

[Chris Halasz]

I overheard that a big box bike brand is entertaining introducing a small 
tubed steel road bike. 

The concept would be in response to those desiring to segregate themselves 
from cyclists on very high end e-bikes that nearly camouflage the motor and 
battery within their respective carbon frame, which are similar in shape 
with many common high-end carbon fiber bikes. 

Not sure why that market sector wouldn't just be going retro with some nice 
steel European Bowlachili frame from the 80s. Maybe they need compact 
geometry and internal cables and the latest in derailer and gravel 
accommodations? 

Maybe they just buy a Roadeo? I'd love an Albatross-equipped Roadeo. 

- Chris 
On Monday, January 29, 2024 at 7:07:07 PM UTC-8 cz...@sonic.net wrote:

> I think Eben Weiss is mainstream. He's owned and ridden carbon bikes. And 
> he rides a lot. I think "mainstream" in the context of cylcing encompasses 
> a broad spectrum from racer wanna-be's to parents with kids in trailers or 
> child seats to people carrying heavy loads on all kinds of bikes.
>
> I don't think of myself as mainstream because I have never and will never 
> consider riding carbon. Not that I'm a snob - just that I prefer my steel 
> bikes.
>
> Regards,
>
> Corwin
>
> On Monday, January 29, 2024 at 6:41:31 PM UTC-8 ttoshi wrote:
>
>> My favorite quote:
>>
>> Unless you spend more time carrying your bike than riding it, a slight 
>> weight reduction is utterly meaningless, and foregoing a nice steel bike 
>> because the carbon one is lighter is like choosing a single $50 bill over 
>> twenty $5 bills because the fifty is easier to fit in your wallet.
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 29, 2024 at 12:13 PM Piaw Na(藍俊彪)  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> https://www.outsideonline.com/culture/opinion/theres-no-good-reason-to-buy-a-carbon-bike/?fbclid=IwAR2uIwBwz29AqiFhiVs5TTjdXw2HDNApUOMVh51foKzayEp1u_vB5UMltqU
>>>
>>> Never thought I'd see this.
>>>
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Mainstream press article pushing steel bike?

[Nick Payne]

On Tuesday 30 January 2024 at 8:18:42 am UTC+11 mathiass...@gmail.com wrote:

With all respect to Mr. Weiss, the logical material for racy/roady types is 
aluminum, not steel. 
Nearly as light as carbon, significantly more robust, cheaper, and has the 
modern look and feel.


Yes, I've shifted towards aluminium frames and disc brakes (alongside being 
a touring cyclist, I also raced for about 30 years). The last two frames 
I've bought have been that, and they both ride really nicely. Modern 
hydro-formed aluminium frames are a far cry from the uncomfortable beer can 
Cannondales of 25-30 years ago. And the price of both those aluminium 
frames I bought was about one third of the price of the Open U.P.P.E.R. 
carbon fibre frame that I bought half a dozen years ago.

If you walk into a bike shop and look at the same model bike that comes in 
both C-F and aluminium (e.g. Trek Emonda), for the same level of 
components, the bike with the C-F frame will be much more expensive. That 
frame will very probably be slightly lighter than the aluminium one, but if 
you built the Al frame with a much better level of compenents to bring it 
up to the same price, you'd probably make up for any difference in the 
frame weights, plus you also have a more durable frame and (hopefully) 
better performing and lasting components.

Nick Payne
  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Northern Hemisphere Winter 2023-2024 Ride Photos

[Josh (BertoBerg)]

Cousins for sure! Good find.

Josh 
Bainbridge Island, WA

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Re: [RBW] Mainstream press article pushing steel bike?

[Eric Daume]

I don’t think many big box store customers are debating between a $200
Mongoose and a $4000 Rodeo.

It would be nice to have an entry steel option, but aside from aesthetics,
I would rather ride entry level aluminum.  Cheap steel bikes are just heavy
and overbuilt.

Eric

On Wednesday, January 31, 2024, Chris Halasz  wrote:

> I overheard that a big box bike brand is entertaining introducing a small
> tubed steel road bike.
>
> The concept would be in response to those desiring to segregate themselves
> from cyclists on very high end e-bikes that nearly camouflage the motor and
> battery within their respective carbon frame, which are similar in shape
> with many common high-end carbon fiber bikes.
>
> Not sure why that market sector wouldn't just be going retro with some
> nice steel European Bowlachili frame from the 80s. Maybe they need compact
> geometry and internal cables and the latest in derailer and gravel
> accommodations?
>
> Maybe they just buy a Roadeo? I'd love an Albatross-equipped Roadeo.
>
> - Chris
> On Monday, January 29, 2024 at 7:07:07 PM UTC-8 cz...@sonic.net wrote:
>
>> I think Eben Weiss is mainstream. He's owned and ridden carbon bikes. And
>> he rides a lot. I think "mainstream" in the context of cylcing encompasses
>> a broad spectrum from racer wanna-be's to parents with kids in trailers or
>> child seats to people carrying heavy loads on all kinds of bikes.
>>
>> I don't think of myself as mainstream because I have never and will never
>> consider riding carbon. Not that I'm a snob - just that I prefer my steel
>> bikes.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Corwin
>>
>> On Monday, January 29, 2024 at 6:41:31 PM UTC-8 ttoshi wrote:
>>
>>> My favorite quote:
>>>
>>> Unless you spend more time carrying your bike than riding it, a slight
>>> weight reduction is utterly meaningless, and foregoing a nice steel bike
>>> because the carbon one is lighter is like choosing a single $50 bill over
>>> twenty $5 bills because the fifty is easier to fit in your wallet.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 29, 2024 at 12:13 PM Piaw Na(藍俊彪)  wrote:
>>>
 https://www.outsideonline.com/culture/opinion/theres-no-
 good-reason-to-buy-a-carbon-bike/?fbclid=IwAR2uIwBwz29AqiFhiVs5TTjdXw2H
 DNApUOMVh51foKzayEp1u_vB5UMltqU

 Never thought I'd see this.


 --
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> dd92c5b1af55n%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Manivelle basket rack on Sam Hillborne

[Timothy Tolls]

Hi Teague - take my comments with many grains of salt because I am still
gaining experience with it….that said I find it very solid and I have no
doubt it will remain solid under its max 10kg (??) capacity.  The mounting
kit is high quality and sturdy- much more so than I expected for the
price.  My only concern with max loads is not the rasket, but the hit to
stability and performance which varies from bike to bike. I even noticed
this with my 13lb gym bag.  Its not awful, but noticeable at lowest speeds
IMHO. Really the only thing giving me pause from buying a second Maniville
for my Appa is that it might be nice to have an easily removable basket on
this Sam - and since so many others do the Marks / Wald combo there is a
reasonable chance I will learn they are right!  Until that time…I am having
fun with this $94 solution!

On Tue, Jan 30, 2024 at 1:13 PM Teague Scott  wrote:

> This rasket has had me intrigued for a while now! Cool to see one in use
> here.
>
> What do you think of the Manivelle? How does it hold up to a decent load?
> Does it get a little noodly? I'd plan on using it on my basketpacker. I
> currently use a big ol' Surly rack with a 139 strapped to it. Works well
> and feels solid, but it's a hefty setup that I'd like to pare down a little.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Teague in Boise
>
> --
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> .
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> 
> .
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Acorn Bag, Shimano Skewers, Appaloosa 700c Wheelset

[Matthew Williams]

Skewers: SOLD
Wheelset: Sold pending payment

Acorn Tool Roll: still available!

On Tuesday, January 30, 2024 at 8:19:58 PM UTC-8 Matthew Williams wrote:

> Acorn Tool Roll
> Black waxed canvas with leather straps
> Nearly new, mounted once but never used
> From a non-smoking, pet-free, fragrance-free home
> 60.00 or best offer, free shipping
>
>
> Shimano Dura-Ace 7400 Skewers
> Excellent mechanical condition
> Good cosmetic condition with some patina
> 40.00 or best offer, free shipping
>
>
> Appaloosa wheelset with the fun multicolored spoke nipples
> 700c AlexRims DM18
> Kenda 700 x 45 tires (no tubes)
> Silver hubs & skewers
> Used, in very good condition
> Ridden for 3 years, probably around 500 miles
> Only ridden gently and unloaded, never in rain or snow
> Only ridden on asphalt, concrete, and a few fire roads
> No jumps, curbs, stunts, or racing
> 150.00 or best offer + shipping
>
>
> All items available for pickup in the San Francisco Bay Area
>
>
> [image: wheelset_6537.jpg][image: skewers_8128.jpg][image: 
> tool_roll_8122.jpg]
>

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Re: [RBW] Digest for rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com - 24 updates in 8 topics

[Corwin Zechar]

On 1/31/24 05:50, rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com wrote:
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com < 
https://groups.google.com/forum/?utm_source=digest&utm_medium=email#!forum/rbw-owners-bunch/topics 
> 	Google Groups 
 
	








John Dewey : Jan 30 05:45PM -0800

Troop 21 BSA, many Lake Mills campouts. We even rode our 3-speeds with 
gear

one time.

Brain workin’ hard today, whew 😰 And this after cold dark wet NorCal ride
this aft. I need a long hot shower & nap.

Jock





--

*Corwin "I am a Cyclist"  
Zechar*


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Re: [RBW] Re: Manivelle basket rack on Sam Hillborne

[Teague Scott]

Thanks for your 2c.

I like that the Manivelle's size is between that of the 137 and 139. I've 
found a 137 jst a little tight for shoulder season (need for warm gear) 
overnighters here in SW Idaho. The 137 is a little too big for my needs and 
begs for extra, unnecessary s%*! ... Either way, I try to minimize weight 
in a basket and use it for soft stuff only – sleeping bag & clothes. 
Heavier stuff (food, beer, stove, tool kit, steripen, extra tube, 
"shelter") rides in a saddlebag. A Z-rest pad migrates between front and 
rear depending on how frequently I find myself digging for stuff in the 
saddlebag. A Jandd partial framebag and stem bag help alleviate most 
digging.

I've tried both the 137 and 139 on a Mark's rack. Both work, but IMO the 
139 is too much basket for the Mark's platform.

My most recent front rasket setup, the 139 & surly front rack, weights 4.75 
lbs 😱
The Manivelle looks to weigh ~2.8 lbs

This ongoing experimentation has been taking place on a big Black Mountain 
Cycles MXC.
On Wednesday, January 31, 2024 at 3:59:08 PM UTC-7 Tim Tom wrote:

> Hi Teague - take my comments with many grains of salt because I am still 
> gaining experience with it….that said I find it very solid and I have no 
> doubt it will remain solid under its max 10kg (??) capacity.  The mounting 
> kit is high quality and sturdy- much more so than I expected for the 
> price.  My only concern with max loads is not the rasket, but the hit to 
> stability and performance which varies from bike to bike. I even noticed 
> this with my 13lb gym bag.  Its not awful, but noticeable at lowest speeds 
> IMHO. Really the only thing giving me pause from buying a second Maniville 
> for my Appa is that it might be nice to have an easily removable basket on 
> this Sam - and since so many others do the Marks / Wald combo there is a 
> reasonable chance I will learn they are right!  Until that time…I am having 
> fun with this $94 solution!
>
> On Tue, Jan 30, 2024 at 1:13 PM Teague Scott  wrote:
>
>> This rasket has had me intrigued for a while now! Cool to see one in use 
>> here.
>>
>> What do you think of the Manivelle? How does it hold up to a decent load? 
>> Does it get a little noodly? I'd plan on using it on my basketpacker. I 
>> currently use a big ol' Surly rack with a 139 strapped to it. Works well 
>> and feels solid, but it's a hefty setup that I'd like to pare down a little.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Teague in Boise
>>
>> -- 
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>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/xrkZiIwOxR0/unsubscribe
>> .
>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to 
>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/fb2b9841-e15a-4cdb-b3fc-8ce04778672an%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Dialing in a Brooks Saddle

[Jay]

Thanks for all the wisdom.  And the humour (Eric).

I installed the saddle and tinkered with initial set up in my basement. 
 Proceeded to go out for ride one, around the block.  These very short 
rides tell me if I'm way off.  I was.  Made adjustments about five more 
times, going around my block once or twice each time.  Felt better, but 
never comfortable.  Went out for a 10k ride.  Stopped twice to adjust.  I 
had the saddle level in the back, which puts the nose up (as you know). 
 That had me neither sliding forward or backward, but it wasn't 
comfortable.  I felt like the tilt was right (no slide), height was good 
(decent extension at bottom of stroke), and I'm guessing fore/aft was 
good...no leg pain. Hard to say what was uncomfortable; I felt the skirt of 
the saddle, and general discomfort around the sit bones (not the sit bone 
pin-point area itself).  

When I ride my Prologo (147mm wide) I am very comfortable for 1-2 hours, 
then it slowly becomes uncomfortable (friction/chafing).  The Prologo was 
comfortable from ride one (after the small adjustments per my routine).  On 
my Fargo, where I'm riding it like a drop-bar mountain bike on 'green' 
trails in my area, I stand a lot, and I can ride long without discomfort. 
 Long road rides, however, not so good.  Same saddle on my road bike, bit 
better at the 2-3hr mark.

Not sure where to go from here!  I don't think I'll bring the saddle for 
the Roadini fitting, but I won't get rid of it.  We'll see how this unfolds 
:-)

On Wednesday, January 31, 2024 at 3:06:26 PM UTC-5 Chris Halasz wrote:

> I've owned many B17 saddles, and there is variability, and in my 
> experience, less variability in the Special than in the Standard. So if you 
> don't like the B17 you try, it may just be you don't like *that* particular 
> B17. 
>
> I've always thought that Brooks should do a little pressure test mid-way 
> on the saddle to address the variability in the leather. In my experience, 
> some seem made for more robust torsos, and some for much less. I regret 
> selling a just right one to a very nice person here in town, but am more 
> pleased to know how well it suits him. 
>
> For starters, I always adjust a B17 to nose up by a tip of the thumb 
> thickness at the back from level. That gets me good enough. 
>
> If further micro-adjustment is needed, I have a small round magnet that 
> Riv provided with my Hobson Zingo (is that right?) Allen key that remains 
> on the bike's head tube and then temporarily set my 4 or 5mm key handy and 
> (ideally) have a seat post with a fore and aft screw for the adjustment. 
>
> I recall an old video of Eddy Merckx micro adjusting his saddle height 
> while out on a ride. Makes me feel just like Eddy. 
>
> - Chris 
>
> On Wednesday, January 31, 2024 at 9:26:36 AM UTC-8 krhe...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I believe that it all depends on your riding posture in the angle of 
>> which your pelvis and your seat bones rest on the saddle. See attachment 
>> diagram. 
>>
>> It is a personal choice and preference as much as one's bum is different 
>> from the next person's. 
>>
>> I ride in an upright riding position my Clem with my B66S saddle's nose 
>> titled up slightly. I wear padded cycling shorts. 
>>
>> Kim Hetzel
>>
>> On Wednesday, January 31, 2024 at 7:28:13 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> I was going to speak along similar lines, perhaps not as forthrightly. 
>>> But I found angle more critical on Brookses for some reason than on any 
>>> other saddle, including other leather makes.
>>>
>>> After trying several B 17s, a B 17N, a Champion Flyer, and a Pro, the 
>>> one Brooks that I found comfortable *(very* comfortable except for tilt 
>>> adjustment) was the Pro -- the others chafed or pressed or obtruded. I 
>>> positioned the Pro tilted slightly up on a bike with drop bar below saddle. 
>>> But I could never get the tilt just right, and I had a rather nice seatpost 
>>> with separate angle adjustment bolt that allowed stepless adjustment. With 
>>> the slippery surface I was either sliding forward onto the bar or feeling 
>>> pressure, and after I had commuted on it for 18 or 24 months or so I went 
>>> back to original issue Flites which I now have on all my bikes.
>>>
>>> I almost never ride in padded shorts and the lined shorts I occasionally 
>>> use have very thin chamoises or (1 pair) a very thin synthetic layer just 
>>> to prevent seam chafing -- I *hate* thick pads. 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2024 at 6:04 AM Eric Daume  wrote:
>>>
 My technique for dialing in a Brooks:

 1. Loosen seat post bolt
 2. Remove Brooks saddle
 3. Replace with any other plastic saddle I happen to have nearby
 4. Enjoy the better comfort, less slipperiness, lighter weight, and 
 zero maintenance.

 YMMV :)

 Eric

>>>

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Re: [RBW] Dialing in a Brooks Saddle

[Will Boericke]

To my mind, if you have been comfortable on plastic saddles (which are most 
of my saddles), you are not going to be comfy on a B17.  Too wide.  I have 
leather saddles on my commuters mostly so I don't have to wear padded 
shorts, and the only Brooks saddles I get on with are Professionals or 
other narrow models (Swift, Swallow, etc).

Many of my friends are quite devoted to Selle Anatomica.  Perhaps that 
would be worth a try as well.  Though again, not a plastic-saddle-like feel 
at all.

Will 



On Wednesday, January 31, 2024 at 8:52:51 PM UTC-5 Jay wrote:

> Thanks for all the wisdom.  And the humour (Eric).
>
> I installed the saddle and tinkered with initial set up in my basement. 
>  Proceeded to go out for ride one, around the block.  These very short 
> rides tell me if I'm way off.  I was.  Made adjustments about five more 
> times, going around my block once or twice each time.  Felt better, but 
> never comfortable.  Went out for a 10k ride.  Stopped twice to adjust.  I 
> had the saddle level in the back, which puts the nose up (as you know). 
>  That had me neither sliding forward or backward, but it wasn't 
> comfortable.  I felt like the tilt was right (no slide), height was good 
> (decent extension at bottom of stroke), and I'm guessing fore/aft was 
> good...no leg pain. Hard to say what was uncomfortable; I felt the skirt of 
> the saddle, and general discomfort around the sit bones (not the sit bone 
> pin-point area itself).  
>
> When I ride my Prologo (147mm wide) I am very comfortable for 1-2 hours, 
> then it slowly becomes uncomfortable (friction/chafing).  The Prologo was 
> comfortable from ride one (after the small adjustments per my routine).  On 
> my Fargo, where I'm riding it like a drop-bar mountain bike on 'green' 
> trails in my area, I stand a lot, and I can ride long without discomfort. 
>  Long road rides, however, not so good.  Same saddle on my road bike, bit 
> better at the 2-3hr mark.
>
> Not sure where to go from here!  I don't think I'll bring the saddle for 
> the Roadini fitting, but I won't get rid of it.  We'll see how this unfolds 
> :-)
>
> On Wednesday, January 31, 2024 at 3:06:26 PM UTC-5 Chris Halasz wrote:
>
>> I've owned many B17 saddles, and there is variability, and in my 
>> experience, less variability in the Special than in the Standard. So if you 
>> don't like the B17 you try, it may just be you don't like *that* particular 
>> B17. 
>>
>> I've always thought that Brooks should do a little pressure test mid-way 
>> on the saddle to address the variability in the leather. In my experience, 
>> some seem made for more robust torsos, and some for much less. I regret 
>> selling a just right one to a very nice person here in town, but am more 
>> pleased to know how well it suits him. 
>>
>> For starters, I always adjust a B17 to nose up by a tip of the thumb 
>> thickness at the back from level. That gets me good enough. 
>>
>> If further micro-adjustment is needed, I have a small round magnet that 
>> Riv provided with my Hobson Zingo (is that right?) Allen key that remains 
>> on the bike's head tube and then temporarily set my 4 or 5mm key handy and 
>> (ideally) have a seat post with a fore and aft screw for the adjustment. 
>>
>> I recall an old video of Eddy Merckx micro adjusting his saddle height 
>> while out on a ride. Makes me feel just like Eddy. 
>>
>> - Chris 
>>
>> On Wednesday, January 31, 2024 at 9:26:36 AM UTC-8 krhe...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I believe that it all depends on your riding posture in the angle of 
>>> which your pelvis and your seat bones rest on the saddle. See attachment 
>>> diagram. 
>>>
>>> It is a personal choice and preference as much as one's bum is different 
>>> from the next person's. 
>>>
>>> I ride in an upright riding position my Clem with my B66S saddle's nose 
>>> titled up slightly. I wear padded cycling shorts. 
>>>
>>> Kim Hetzel
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, January 31, 2024 at 7:28:13 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 I was going to speak along similar lines, perhaps not as forthrightly. 
 But I found angle more critical on Brookses for some reason than on any 
 other saddle, including other leather makes.

 After trying several B 17s, a B 17N, a Champion Flyer, and a Pro, the 
 one Brooks that I found comfortable *(very* comfortable except for 
 tilt adjustment) was the Pro -- the others chafed or pressed or obtruded. 
 I 
 positioned the Pro tilted slightly up on a bike with drop bar below 
 saddle. 
 But I could never get the tilt just right, and I had a rather nice 
 seatpost 
 with separate angle adjustment bolt that allowed stepless adjustment. With 
 the slippery surface I was either sliding forward onto the bar or feeling 
 pressure, and after I had commuted on it for 18 or 24 months or so I went 
 back to original issue Flites which I now have on all my bikes.

 I almost never ride in padded shorts and the lined 

[RBW] WTB: 60mm FacePlater (31.8)

[Joe P]

Anybody here have a 60mm 31.8 FacePlater stem they don't want or need 
anymore? 

I'm looking to put a noodle bar on my '94 xo-3 and the dirt drop that I 
have doesn't get them quite close enough. If you have one you'd be willing 
to part with, email me off list and let me know what you'd let it go for. 
 (If you have a 31.8-26 adapter / shim I'd be interested in that as well.) 

thanks!
Joe

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[RBW] Re: WTB a Mark's Rack (double-strutted)

[Bill Lindsay]

Looks like this is going to work out, so I am no longer in search of a 
reason to give you money.  

BL in EC

On Tuesday, January 30, 2024 at 5:27:02 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Tom M
>
> I sent you a private message asking for these photos and your price.  If 
> you haven't seen that, check your spam folder.  I'm interested, but I still 
> would shoot to keep it close to $100 total.  Otherwise I'll buy a new 
> complete one at Riv HQ when I pick up my new Roadeo.  
>
> BL in EC
>
> On Monday, January 29, 2024 at 5:39:25 AM UTC-8 Tom M wrote:
>
>> I have one, but would have to ship because I'm in Virginia. If you're 
>> interested, I can send photos.
>> Thanks,
>> Tom Milani
>> Alexandria, VA
>>
>> On Sunday, January 28, 2024 at 12:03:24 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> I've got a Mark's rack, but it's in Michigan.  I have one more bike that 
>>> would be made more useful with a Mark's rack.  There's two things to do: 
>>>  either remove the Mark's rack from the Michigan bike next time I'm out 
>>> there -OR- buy yours!
>>>
>>> I'm in the market for a Mark's Rack (double-strutted).  I'm looking to 
>>> spend $100, ideally in my hands for $100.  If you're in the East Bay and we 
>>> can arrange a hand-off, awesome.  If you have the chassis of a Mark's Rack 
>>> with no hardware, I can also make that work from my parts stash, but I'm 
>>> not looking to pay $100 for just a chassis.  
>>>
>>> Let me know if you want to convert a rack to cash
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>

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