[RBW] Re: Bike Industry Controlled by Grant Peterson

[Ron Mc]

now if we can just get some Retro Grouch tee shirts made up - "it's all 
about the roll" is a pretty good anthem - I like it better than Unracer.  

On Wednesday, November 5, 2014 11:21:18 AM UTC-6, Noah Deuce wrote:
>
> Hyperbole, sure, but the drum GP has been beating for decades (better tire 
> clearance, too much emphasis on racing, etc.) has finally turned into a 
> product "category" that may save the industry from itself. 
>
> Just see the latest by Guitar Ted: 
> http://www.gravelgrindernews.com/less-about-the-rock-and-more-about-the-roll/
>

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[RBW] Re: Bike Industry Controlled by Grant Peterson

['Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Nice article.   So basically we are just going back to the All-Terrain 
Bikes that came out of Marin County in the late 70's and early 80's.   I've 
done a bit of reading about the history of the MTB (as well as watching 
Klunkerz) and those guys (and a couple of girls) were really just doing 
exactly what Guitar Ted is talking aboutdeveloping bikes that could 
be ridden almost anywhere.  The whole downhill/extreme terrain thing came 
about when the racers took over.  I know that Repack was all about racing 
and was a huge influence but it seems those guys were doing a lot of what 
would now be called expedition biking.  

I've evolved to prefer just that type of bike and no longer have any 
interest in riding anything less than 55mm tires.  When I picked up a 1984 
MTB last year, I did some research on bikes from that era and in 1985 
Bicycling put out a book and they were still referring to them as ATB's, 
which is actually much more appropriate than "mountain bike".   



On Wednesday, November 5, 2014 11:21:18 AM UTC-6, Noah Deuce wrote:
>
> Hyperbole, sure, but the drum GP has been beating for decades (better tire 
> clearance, too much emphasis on racing, etc.) has finally turned into a 
> product "category" that may save the industry from itself. 
>
> Just see the latest by Guitar Ted: 
> http://www.gravelgrindernews.com/less-about-the-rock-and-more-about-the-roll/
>

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[RBW] Re: Bike Industry Controlled by Grant Peterson

[Mike Schiller]

not quite decades... but certainly for the last few years. Many Rivs from 
the late 90's wont fit anything larger than 32mm tires. And lest we forget 
many sport tourers from the 60-70's fit 35mm tires.  and of course 
those demi-balloon 40-50 mm tired bikes from France. 

as far as "gravel" riders the gravel races are races, full lycra kits 
and an emphasis on speed ... certainly not unracers.


~mike



On Wednesday, November 5, 2014 9:21:18 AM UTC-8, Noah Deuce wrote:
>
> Hyperbole, sure, but the drum GP has been beating for decades (better tire 
> clearance, too much emphasis on racing, etc.) has finally turned into a 
> product "category" that may save the industry from itself. 
>
> Just see the latest by Guitar Ted: 
> http://www.gravelgrindernews.com/less-about-the-rock-and-more-about-the-roll/
>

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[RBW] Re: Bike Industry Controlled by Grant Peterson

[Anton Tutter]

Right, and GP wasn't the only one preaching that sermon. There was also Jan 
Heine and to a lesser extent and more recently, VO.

I do dislike the term "gravel grinding", because it has connotations of 
effort and exertion. I prefer dirt-road riding, or gravel road riding, or 
even mixed terrain riding, but none of those sound particularly catchy.

Anton
 

On Wednesday, November 5, 2014 11:13:20 PM UTC-5, Mike Schiller wrote:
>
> not quite decades... but certainly for the last few years. Many Rivs from 
> the late 90's wont fit anything larger than 32mm tires. And lest we forget 
> many sport tourers from the 60-70's fit 35mm tires.  and of course 
> those demi-balloon 40-50 mm tired bikes from France. 
>
> as far as "gravel" riders the gravel races are races, full lycra kits 
> and an emphasis on speed ... certainly not unracers.
>
>
> ~mike
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, November 5, 2014 9:21:18 AM UTC-8, Noah Deuce wrote:
>>
>> Hyperbole, sure, but the drum GP has been beating for decades (better 
>> tire clearance, too much emphasis on racing, etc.) has finally turned into 
>> a product "category" that may save the industry from itself. 
>>
>> Just see the latest by Guitar Ted: 
>> http://www.gravelgrindernews.com/less-about-the-rock-and-more-about-the-roll/
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Bike Industry Controlled by Grant Peterson

[Grant Petersen]

About the influence thing, with practical bikes, and so on: I'm not dumb 
enough or falsely humble enough to deny that Rivendell has had influence, 
but to put it on ME gives me too much credit. As some have pointed out, 
lots of what we're doing with bikes has been done before in some 
form--bigger tires, fitting, higher bars, fenders, baskets, bags, steel & 
lugs. ALL OF IT. 

The whole industry got racified (like the word or not) starting in about 
the early '80s (road) and late '80s (mtn), and that's where everything 
seems to go. A few ride bikes. More ride bikes. Then somebody says I can 
beat that guy and another says heythen let's see you prove it, and the 
races happen, there's suddenly an audience (nobody's a "commute 
spectator"), and with the audience comes opportunity to ... market. 
Spectators admire racers and want to be like them to whatever extent their 
lives allow it, and that changes equipment.

So the high-clearance bikes and brakes of the pre-race era stopped being 
made, and the early RIVs used whatever brakes were available--and they were 
short-reach, which is limiting. Through some of our efforts Shimano 
reintroduced a "med reach" sidepull--still in existence--and when we wanted 
more clearance we went to Tektro for the Silver brake, which is now 
available also as a 559. That was a huge breakthrough, and you can see it 
and its cheaper cousins on bikes all over the US and Europe now, but my 
point is that all we did was push the ball, and it would have stopped 
without your support. 

This is neat, because it has proved that NON-racers can drive things, too. 
The internet helps. Without the emotional support and affirmation that 
comes from unseen strangers, a lot of people would be timid to go this way, 
or wouldn't even know it was an option. When people thank us for making a 
bike, I always thankem back for buying it, and behind the thanks is a long 
speech they don't have time to hear about how we wouldn't "make" this stuff 
if people didn't buy it.

It's not the same as being "market-driven"--something that I hope we never 
are. It's more like those of you who are reading this and liking and 
supporting it with your purchases...are rewarding any effort we make, and 
that's the fuel for more of it. There are still some areas that need 
addressing, and we're trying to work on them. It would be so much easier if 
well-funded companies did it, but the stuff we like --- and, I'd say the 
stuff YOU like --the same stuff, I think --- is too quirky for big  people 
with money to understand UNTIL it gets out there, which it does thru us but 
because of you...so, thanks. It's funny to say "thanks," because after a 
longish explanation like that, adding "thanks" seems like a passive 
agressive way to reel in more credit as I wind this thing up, but I swear 
to god I'm not trying to do that. Of COURSE we-all-here-at-RIV appreciate 
the support, which means jobs and a living and all that--but the main point 
is that good ideas are easy, and what really makes them work and spread is 
what happens on your end. G

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[RBW] Re: Bike Industry Controlled by Grant Peterson

[hsmitham]

I prefer "Mixed Terrain " my self.

-Hugh

On Thursday, November 6, 2014 8:00:04 AM UTC-8, Anton Tutter wrote:
> Right, and GP wasn't the only one preaching that sermon. There was also Jan 
> Heine and to a lesser extent and more recently, VO.
> 
> I do dislike the term "gravel grinding", because it has connotations of 
> effort and exertion. I prefer dirt-road riding, or gravel road riding, or 
> even mixed terrain riding, but none of those sound particularly catchy.
> 
> Anton
>  
> 
> On Wednesday, November 5, 2014 11:13:20 PM UTC-5, Mike Schiller wrote:
> not quite decades... but certainly for the last few years. Many Rivs from the 
> late 90's wont fit anything larger than 32mm tires. And lest we forget many 
> sport tourers from the 60-70's fit 35mm tires.  and of course those 
> demi-balloon 40-50 mm tired bikes from France. 
> 
> 
> as far as "gravel" riders the gravel races are races, full lycra kits and 
> an emphasis on speed ... certainly not unracers.    
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~mike
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, November 5, 2014 9:21:18 AM UTC-8, Noah Deuce wrote:Hyperbole, 
> sure, but the drum GP has been beating for decades (better tire clearance, 
> too much emphasis on racing, etc.) has finally turned into a product 
> "category" that may save the industry from itself. 
> Just see the latest by Guitar Ted: 
> http://www.gravelgrindernews.com/less-about-the-rock-and-more-about-the-roll/

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[RBW] Re: Bike Industry Controlled by Grant Peterson

['Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch]

That's actually a better descriptive term but it doesn't quite roll off the 
tongue like "ATB" or "MTB".  :)

On Thursday, November 6, 2014 5:14:38 PM UTC-6, hsmitham wrote:
>
> I prefer "Mixed Terrain " my self. 
>
> -Hugh 
>
> On Thursday, November 6, 2014 8:00:04 AM UTC-8, Anton Tutter wrote: 
> > Right, and GP wasn't the only one preaching that sermon. There was also 
> Jan Heine and to a lesser extent and more recently, VO. 
> > 
> > I do dislike the term "gravel grinding", because it has connotations of 
> effort and exertion. I prefer dirt-road riding, or gravel road riding, or 
> even mixed terrain riding, but none of those sound particularly catchy. 
> > 
> > Anton 
> >   
> > 
> > On Wednesday, November 5, 2014 11:13:20 PM UTC-5, Mike Schiller wrote: 
> > not quite decades... but certainly for the last few years. Many Rivs 
> from the late 90's wont fit anything larger than 32mm tires. And lest we 
> forget many sport tourers from the 60-70's fit 35mm tires.  and of 
> course those demi-balloon 40-50 mm tired bikes from France.  
> > 
> > 
> > as far as "gravel" riders the gravel races are races, full lycra 
> kits and an emphasis on speed ... certainly not unracers. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ~mike 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Wednesday, November 5, 2014 9:21:18 AM UTC-8, Noah Deuce 
> wrote:Hyperbole, sure, but the drum GP has been beating for decades (better 
> tire clearance, too much emphasis on racing, etc.) has finally turned into 
> a product "category" that may save the industry from itself. 
> > Just see the latest by Guitar Ted: 
> http://www.gravelgrindernews.com/less-about-the-rock-and-more-about-the-roll/

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[RBW] Re: Bike Industry Controlled by Grant Peterson

[Montclair BobbyB]

Agree, to me "gravel grinding" is a cringe-worthy misnomer... although I DO 
cringe any time I encounter loose gravel *(at which point the 'grinding' 
part is spot-on).* 

I formally refer to this kind of riding as "combo riding" *(which I'm sure 
many of us do as part of any normal ride)*.  A bunch of my friends and I 
are planning a special combo ride next weekend from High Point (NJ) to 
Blairstown, on a varied mix of XC ski trail, paved road, wooded single 
track, dirt road, packed rail trail, and maybe even a little unplanned 
improv if the road/trail (on the map) no longer exists in the real world... 
these rides can get a bit crazy, so we've affectionately dubbed them 
"mutant" rides... They're my absolute favorite.

BB

On Thursday, November 6, 2014 11:00:04 AM UTC-5, Anton Tutter wrote:
>
> Right, and GP wasn't the only one preaching that sermon. There was also 
> Jan Heine and to a lesser extent and more recently, VO.
>
> I do dislike the term "gravel grinding", because it has connotations of 
> effort and exertion. I prefer dirt-road riding, or gravel road riding, or 
> even mixed terrain riding, but none of those sound particularly catchy.
>
> Anton
>  
>
> On Wednesday, November 5, 2014 11:13:20 PM UTC-5, Mike Schiller wrote:
>>
>> not quite decades... but certainly for the last few years. Many Rivs from 
>> the late 90's wont fit anything larger than 32mm tires. And lest we forget 
>> many sport tourers from the 60-70's fit 35mm tires.  and of course 
>> those demi-balloon 40-50 mm tired bikes from France. 
>>
>> as far as "gravel" riders the gravel races are races, full lycra kits 
>> and an emphasis on speed ... certainly not unracers.
>>
>>
>> ~mike
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 5, 2014 9:21:18 AM UTC-8, Noah Deuce wrote:
>>>
>>> Hyperbole, sure, but the drum GP has been beating for decades (better 
>>> tire clearance, too much emphasis on racing, etc.) has finally turned into 
>>> a product "category" that may save the industry from itself. 
>>>
>>> Just see the latest by Guitar Ted: 
>>> http://www.gravelgrindernews.com/less-about-the-rock-and-more-about-the-roll/
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Industry Controlled by Grant Peterson

[Joe Bunik]

Chris, all,

I just stumbled over this which seems quite germane to the Marin MTB
pre-history tangent:

http://www.peterverdone.com/?p=2399

=- Joe

On 11/7/14, 'Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch
 wrote:
> I don't do much off-road riding either but that style of bike is fun to
> ride anywhere!!
>
> I found what is basically an engineering drawing that Joe Breeze did of
> Breezer #1 and it had a 67.5 degree head angle and 50mm of rake on the
> fork.  Given that Tom Ritchey was influenced by the Breezers, I doubt there
>
> was a huge difference in the way the Breezers and Ritcheys rode versus the
> Stumpjumpers and other mass produced MTB's.
>
> I'm finding that on my old Highlander, the key is to really use my body
> more and my handlebars less.  I tend to do this on any bike but I'm finding
>
> that greatly exaggerating what I do on my other, more nimble, bikes works
> really well on this one.  Fat tires, long wheelbase, slack angles and one
> gear.LOVE IT!!
>
>
>
>
>
> On Friday, November 7, 2014 9:44:04 AM UTC-6, Montclair BobbyB wrote:
>>
>> Chris:
>>
>> I didn't take my Typhoon on many actual trails (although I'm sure I would
>>
>> have struggled on climbs), but I sure spent lots of time on grass, jumping
>>
>> curbs, and skidding on gravel-dirt like nobody's business...
>>
>> Funny story, I spent a year a Univ of Dayton in 1976, and took along my
>> trusty campus cruiser ('62 red Typhoon with white pinstriped rims and
>> bricktread fat tires). One of my dorm buddies took a particular shining to
>>
>> it, and always asked to borrow it (everyone else riding their racing bikes
>>
>> around campus made fun of my Typhoon)... But this one guy (had a gleam in
>>
>> his eye when he looked at my Typhoon) and would ride it over anything that
>>
>> DIDN'T resemble a road, including snow mounds, stairs... you name it.  And
>>
>> BTW that guy's name was Maurice Tierney, who *(many years later)* founded
>>
>> Dirt Rag / Bicycle Times.  *(I like to kid around and claim that I got
>> Maurice hooked on mountain biking... oddly there's a little bit of truth
>> to
>> that... and we owe lots of thanks to Frank Schwinn, father of the original
>>
>> fat tire movement... the rest is history.)*
>>
>> BB
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Industry Controlled by Grant Peterson

[Addison Wilhite]

I tried to express some of this sentiment in a post from not too long ago.
Inspired in part by the "vindication" tshirt:

http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com/2014/07/rivendell-bicycle-workshas-vindication.html?q=grant




Addison Wilhite, M.A.

Academy of Arts, Careers and Technology 

*“Blazing the Trail to College and Career Success”*

Educator: Professional Portfolio 

Blogger: Reno Rambler 

Bicycle Advocate: Regional Transportation Commission, Bicycle Pedestrian
Advisory Committee



On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 9:33 AM, Ron Mc  wrote:

> now if we can just get some Retro Grouch tee shirts made up - "it's all
> about the roll" is a pretty good anthem - I like it better than Unracer.
>
>
> On Wednesday, November 5, 2014 11:21:18 AM UTC-6, Noah Deuce wrote:
>>
>> Hyperbole, sure, but the drum GP has been beating for decades (better
>> tire clearance, too much emphasis on racing, etc.) has finally turned into
>> a product "category" that may save the industry from itself.
>>
>> Just see the latest by Guitar Ted: http://www.gravelgrindernews.
>> com/less-about-the-rock-and-more-about-the-roll/
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Industry Controlled by Grant Peterson

[Joe Bunik]

Chris, all-

Re: the Marin-legacy and it's influence on bike culture, check out
Charlie Kelley's new memoir, "Fat Tire Flyer". It's a book of both
lavish production quality as well as a compelling storytelling.

=- Joe Bunik
Walnut Creek, CA

On 11/5/14, 'Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch
 wrote:
> Nice article.   So basically we are just going back to the All-Terrain
> Bikes that came out of Marin County in the late 70's and early 80's.   I've
>
> done a bit of reading about the history of the MTB (as well as watching
> Klunkerz) and those guys (and a couple of girls) were really just doing
> exactly what Guitar Ted is talking aboutdeveloping bikes that could
>
> be ridden almost anywhere.  The whole downhill/extreme terrain thing came
> about when the racers took over.  I know that Repack was all about racing
> and was a huge influence but it seems those guys were doing a lot of what
> would now be called expedition biking.
>
> I've evolved to prefer just that type of bike and no longer have any
> interest in riding anything less than 55mm tires.  When I picked up a 1984
> MTB last year, I did some research on bikes from that era and in 1985
> Bicycling put out a book and they were still referring to them as ATB's,
> which is actually much more appropriate than "mountain bike".
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, November 5, 2014 11:21:18 AM UTC-6, Noah Deuce wrote:
>>
>> Hyperbole, sure, but the drum GP has been beating for decades (better tire
>>
>> clearance, too much emphasis on racing, etc.) has finally turned into a
>> product "category" that may save the industry from itself.
>>
>> Just see the latest by Guitar Ted:
>> http://www.gravelgrindernews.com/less-about-the-rock-and-more-about-the-roll/
>>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Industry Controlled by Grant Peterson

['Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I pre-ordered mine on Amazon back when a first came available and devoured 
it once I got it.  You are right, I almost got the Kindle version but that 
would ahve been such a waste on a library quality, coffee table sized book 
full of illustrations and photos.  I've watched Klunkerz, read Barto's 
"Birth of Dirt" as well as a lot of articles but I still learned some 
fascinating stuff.  I also highly recommend it to anyone interested in bike 
history.  

On Wednesday, November 5, 2014 1:31:12 PM UTC-6, jbu...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Chris, all- 
>
> Re: the Marin-legacy and it's influence on bike culture, check out 
> Charlie Kelley's new memoir, "Fat Tire Flyer". It's a book of both 
> lavish production quality as well as a compelling storytelling. 
>
> =- Joe Bunik 
> Walnut Creek, CA 
>
> On 11/5/14, 'Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch 
> > wrote: 
> > Nice article.   So basically we are just going back to the All-Terrain 
> > Bikes that came out of Marin County in the late 70's and early 80's.   
> I've 
> > 
> > done a bit of reading about the history of the MTB (as well as watching 
> > Klunkerz) and those guys (and a couple of girls) were really just doing 
> > exactly what Guitar Ted is talking aboutdeveloping bikes that 
> could 
> > 
> > be ridden almost anywhere.  The whole downhill/extreme terrain thing 
> came 
> > about when the racers took over.  I know that Repack was all about 
> racing 
> > and was a huge influence but it seems those guys were doing a lot of 
> what 
> > would now be called expedition biking. 
> > 
> > I've evolved to prefer just that type of bike and no longer have any 
> > interest in riding anything less than 55mm tires.  When I picked up a 
> 1984 
> > MTB last year, I did some research on bikes from that era and in 1985 
> > Bicycling put out a book and they were still referring to them as ATB's, 
> > which is actually much more appropriate than "mountain bike". 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Wednesday, November 5, 2014 11:21:18 AM UTC-6, Noah Deuce wrote: 
> >> 
> >> Hyperbole, sure, but the drum GP has been beating for decades (better 
> tire 
> >> 
> >> clearance, too much emphasis on racing, etc.) has finally turned into a 
> >> product "category" that may save the industry from itself. 
> >> 
> >> Just see the latest by Guitar Ted: 
> >> 
> http://www.gravelgrindernews.com/less-about-the-rock-and-more-about-the-roll/ 
> >> 
> > 
> > -- 
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups 
> > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 
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> an 
> > email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com . 
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> . 
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> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. 
> > 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Industry Controlled by Grant Peterson

[Anne Paulson]

Take a look at the reports for this gravel race, the Oregon Outback:
http://theradavist.com/2014/05/bikes-faces-oregon-outback/#14

A lot of the gravel riders are riding just to ride.

On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 8:13 PM, Mike Schiller  wrote:
> not quite decades... but certainly for the last few years. Many Rivs from
> the late 90's wont fit anything larger than 32mm tires. And lest we forget
> many sport tourers from the 60-70's fit 35mm tires.  and of course those
> demi-balloon 40-50 mm tired bikes from France.
>
> as far as "gravel" riders the gravel races are races, full lycra kits
> and an emphasis on speed ... certainly not unracers.
>
>
> ~mike
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, November 5, 2014 9:21:18 AM UTC-8, Noah Deuce wrote:
>>
>> Hyperbole, sure, but the drum GP has been beating for decades (better tire
>> clearance, too much emphasis on racing, etc.) has finally turned into a
>> product "category" that may save the industry from itself.
>>
>> Just see the latest by Guitar Ted:
>> http://www.gravelgrindernews.com/less-about-the-rock-and-more-about-the-roll/
>
> --
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-- 
-- Anne Paulson

It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Industry Controlled by Grant Peterson

[Mike Schiller]

Anne, If you call riding 120 miles a day for 3 days  "just riding"  yes. 
 Most of the riders that I know or read about were on that schedule.   I 
was signed up to ride that event but figuring  if I rode only 90 miles a 
day I would be behind most of the others and I would run into empty shelves 
at the few and infrequent tiny stores along the way so I decided to wait 
until next year. At least that was what the organizer said to discourage 
the 300+ riders that signed up.  I'm signing up for next year and will give 
it a go.

Others that I know went at a different time and did the ride over 5-6 days. 
More tour then the "event".

As far as the referenced site, most of those rides in the Midwest are very 
race oriented,  I'm sure  some participants were more laid back in their 
"ride" but are in the minority.

~mike

On Wednesday, November 5, 2014 8:36:53 PM UTC-8, Anne Paulson wrote:
>
> Take a look at the reports for this gravel race, the Oregon Outback: 
> http://theradavist.com/2014/05/bikes-faces-oregon-outback/#14 
>
> A lot of the gravel riders are riding just to ride. 
>
> On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 8:13 PM, Mike Schiller  > wrote: 
> > not quite decades... but certainly for the last few years. Many Rivs 
> from 
> > the late 90's wont fit anything larger than 32mm tires. And lest we 
> forget 
> > many sport tourers from the 60-70's fit 35mm tires.  and of course 
> those 
> > demi-balloon 40-50 mm tired bikes from France. 
> > 
> > as far as "gravel" riders the gravel races are races, full lycra 
> kits 
> > and an emphasis on speed ... certainly not unracers. 
> > 
> > 
> > ~mike 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Wednesday, November 5, 2014 9:21:18 AM UTC-8, Noah Deuce wrote: 
> >> 
> >> Hyperbole, sure, but the drum GP has been beating for decades (better 
> tire 
> >> clearance, too much emphasis on racing, etc.) has finally turned into a 
> >> product "category" that may save the industry from itself. 
> >> 
> >> Just see the latest by Guitar Ted: 
> >> 
> http://www.gravelgrindernews.com/less-about-the-rock-and-more-about-the-roll/ 
> > 
> > -- 
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups 
> > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an 
> > email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com . 
> > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com 
> . 
> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. 
> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. 
>
>
>
> -- 
> -- Anne Paulson 
>
> It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Industry Controlled by Grant Peterson

[Anne Paulson]

I'm doing the Outback this year with a friend or two. We'll go at the "just 
ride" pace of six days.

> On Nov 5, 2014, at 10:40 PM, Mike Schiller  wrote:
> 
> Anne, If you call riding 120 miles a day for 3 days  "just riding"  yes.  
> Most of the riders that I know or read about were on that schedule.   I was 
> signed up to ride that 'event but figuring  if I rode only 90 miles a day I 
> would be behind most of the others and I would run into empty shelves at the 
> few and infrequent tiny stores along the way so I decided to wait until next 
> year. At least that was what the organizer said to discourage the 300+ riders 
> that signed up.  I'm signing up for next year and will give it a go.
> 
> Others that I know went at a different time and did the ride over 5-6 days. 
> More tour then the "event".
> 
> As far as the referenced site, most of those rides in the Midwest are very 
> race oriented,  I'm sure  some participants were more laid back in their 
> "ride" but are in the minority.
> 
> ~mike
> 
>> On Wednesday, November 5, 2014 8:36:53 PM UTC-8, Anne Paulson wrote:
>> Take a look at the reports for this gravel race, the Oregon Outback: 
>> http://theradavist.com/2014/05/bikes-faces-oregon-outback/#14 
>> 
>> A lot of the gravel riders are riding just to ride. 
>> 
>> On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 8:13 PM, Mike Schiller  
>> wrote: 
>> > not quite decades... but certainly for the last few years. Many Rivs from 
>> > the late 90's wont fit anything larger than 32mm tires. And lest we forget 
>> > many sport tourers from the 60-70's fit 35mm tires.  and of course 
>> > those 
>> > demi-balloon 40-50 mm tired bikes from France. 
>> > 
>> > as far as "gravel" riders the gravel races are races, full lycra kits 
>> > and an emphasis on speed ... certainly not unracers. 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > ~mike 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > On Wednesday, November 5, 2014 9:21:18 AM UTC-8, Noah Deuce wrote: 
>> >> 
>> >> Hyperbole, sure, but the drum GP has been beating for decades (better 
>> >> tire 
>> >> clearance, too much emphasis on racing, etc.) has finally turned into a 
>> >> product "category" that may save the industry from itself. 
>> >> 
>> >> Just see the latest by Guitar Ted: 
>> >> http://www.gravelgrindernews.com/less-about-the-rock-and-more-about-the-roll/
>> >>  
>> > 
>> > -- 
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 
>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> > email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. 
>> > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. 
>> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. 
>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> -- Anne Paulson 
>> 
>> It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. 
> 
> -- 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Industry Controlled by Grant Peterson

[Eric Platt]

While Fat Tire Flyer was my main influence into riding bikes with wider
tires, the short-lived magazine "Mountain Bike - for the Adventure" put out
by Hank Barlow was more my style.  It focused more on touring back roads
and recreational riding, moreso than racing.  Although racing did show up
in the magazine.  The first issue actually had reviews of small tents for
mountain bike touring.

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 2:15 PM, 'Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> I pre-ordered mine on Amazon back when a first came available and devoured
> it once I got it.  You are right, I almost got the Kindle version but that
> would ahve been such a waste on a library quality, coffee table sized book
> full of illustrations and photos.  I've watched Klunkerz, read Barto's
> "Birth of Dirt" as well as a lot of articles but I still learned some
> fascinating stuff.  I also highly recommend it to anyone interested in bike
> history.
>
> On Wednesday, November 5, 2014 1:31:12 PM UTC-6, jbu...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> Chris, all-
>>
>> Re: the Marin-legacy and it's influence on bike culture, check out
>> Charlie Kelley's new memoir, "Fat Tire Flyer". It's a book of both
>> lavish production quality as well as a compelling storytelling.
>>
>> =- Joe Bunik
>> Walnut Creek, CA
>>
>> On 11/5/14, 'Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch
>>  wrote:
>> > Nice article.   So basically we are just going back to the All-Terrain
>> > Bikes that came out of Marin County in the late 70's and early 80's.
>> I've
>> >
>> > done a bit of reading about the history of the MTB (as well as watching
>> > Klunkerz) and those guys (and a couple of girls) were really just doing
>> > exactly what Guitar Ted is talking aboutdeveloping bikes that
>> could
>> >
>> > be ridden almost anywhere.  The whole downhill/extreme terrain thing
>> came
>> > about when the racers took over.  I know that Repack was all about
>> racing
>> > and was a huge influence but it seems those guys were doing a lot of
>> what
>> > would now be called expedition biking.
>> >
>> > I've evolved to prefer just that type of bike and no longer have any
>> > interest in riding anything less than 55mm tires.  When I picked up a
>> 1984
>> > MTB last year, I did some research on bikes from that era and in 1985
>> > Bicycling put out a book and they were still referring to them as
>> ATB's,
>> > which is actually much more appropriate than "mountain bike".
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wednesday, November 5, 2014 11:21:18 AM UTC-6, Noah Deuce wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hyperbole, sure, but the drum GP has been beating for decades (better
>> tire
>> >>
>> >> clearance, too much emphasis on racing, etc.) has finally turned into
>> a
>> >> product "category" that may save the industry from itself.
>> >>
>> >> Just see the latest by Guitar Ted:
>> >> http://www.gravelgrindernews.com/less-about-the-rock-and-
>> more-about-the-roll/
>> >>
>> >
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups
>> > "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>> an
>> > email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>> > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
>> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> >
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Industry Controlled by Grant Peterson

[John G]

I think there are increasing options for both types of rides.  Lots of 
folks like to challenge themselves with epic, high mileage gravel grinders, 
but I see plenty who are doing more laid back rambles.  My personal motto 
is "Half the Distance, Twice the Time, Three Times the Fun."

One type is, I suspect, more brag/news/net-worthy, but that does not mean 
the other is not as common.
John G 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Industry Controlled by Grant Peterson

[Montclair BobbyB]

Eric:

Indeed, Mountain Bike WAS an excellent magazine, and (having grown up on a 
fat-tired Schwinn Typhoon), I remember in 1985 how smitten I became with 
the whole idea of mountain bikes... WOW, the mere notion of riding bikes in 
the back-country just blew my mind.  For the entire month of June 1985 I 
was on a business trip in Pueblo Colorado, where I would hang out every day 
after work at the local bike shop talking mountain biking with the staff. 
 I bought a copy of Mountain Bike mag, and there was a feature article 
about Crested Butte and the emerging mountain biking scene.  I checked the 
map (hmm, just a few hours away), made hotel reservations for the weekend 
in Crested Butte, found a local shop to rent me a Rockhopper, and spent 2 
glorious days riding the high country above CB (Schofield Pass, etc.)... I 
was HOOKED for life!

Now 30 years later, while my mountain biking has evolved somewhat, and I 
followed the industry trends for awhile (dabbling with full-suspension, 
aluminum, titanium, etc)  I've gone back to riding a simple, fully-rigid 
steel frame/fork (kinda like the original 80s bikes), not because I'm 
nostalgic, but because it just FEELS right.  And as for the original 80s 
designs, I think the industry absolutely nailed it in designing perfect 
workhorse all-rounders build to last... And think about it... the frames, 
shifters, brake levers, derailleurs etc of the 80s are still around (I 
actually prefer them) because they were built to LAST!  It's a shame that 
most of the industry (starting in the late 80s) seemed to drift away from 
building these super-high-quality, overbuilt bikes and components in favor 
of evolving designs, and (IMO) cheaper-quality... I hope we're seeing this 
trend reversed...



 
On Thursday, November 6, 2014 7:01:52 AM UTC-5, EricP wrote:
>
> While Fat Tire Flyer was my main influence into riding bikes with wider 
> tires, the short-lived magazine "Mountain Bike - for the Adventure" put out 
> by Hank Barlow was more my style.  It focused more on touring back roads 
> and recreational riding, moreso than racing.  Although racing did show up 
> in the magazine.  The first issue actually had reviews of small tents for 
> mountain bike touring.
>
> Eric Platt
> St. Paul, MN
>
> Eric Platt
> St. Paul, MN
>
> On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 2:15 PM, 'Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com > wrote:
>
>> I pre-ordered mine on Amazon back when a first came available and 
>> devoured it once I got it.  You are right, I almost got the Kindle version 
>> but that would ahve been such a waste on a library quality, coffee table 
>> sized book full of illustrations and photos.  I've watched Klunkerz, read 
>> Barto's "Birth of Dirt" as well as a lot of articles but I still learned 
>> some fascinating stuff.  I also highly recommend it to anyone interested in 
>> bike history.  
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 5, 2014 1:31:12 PM UTC-6, jbu...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Chris, all- 
>>>
>>> Re: the Marin-legacy and it's influence on bike culture, check out 
>>> Charlie Kelley's new memoir, "Fat Tire Flyer". It's a book of both 
>>> lavish production quality as well as a compelling storytelling. 
>>>
>>> =- Joe Bunik 
>>> Walnut Creek, CA 
>>>
>>> On 11/5/14, 'Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch 
>>>  wrote: 
>>> > Nice article.   So basically we are just going back to the All-Terrain 
>>> > Bikes that came out of Marin County in the late 70's and early 80's.   
>>> I've 
>>> > 
>>> > done a bit of reading about the history of the MTB (as well as 
>>> watching 
>>> > Klunkerz) and those guys (and a couple of girls) were really just 
>>> doing 
>>> > exactly what Guitar Ted is talking aboutdeveloping bikes that 
>>> could 
>>> > 
>>> > be ridden almost anywhere.  The whole downhill/extreme terrain thing 
>>> came 
>>> > about when the racers took over.  I know that Repack was all about 
>>> racing 
>>> > and was a huge influence but it seems those guys were doing a lot of 
>>> what 
>>> > would now be called expedition biking. 
>>> > 
>>> > I've evolved to prefer just that type of bike and no longer have any 
>>> > interest in riding anything less than 55mm tires.  When I picked up a 
>>> 1984 
>>> > MTB last year, I did some research on bikes from that era and in 1985 
>>> > Bicycling put out a book and they were still referring to them as 
>>> ATB's, 
>>> > which is actually much more appropriate than "mountain bike". 
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > On Wednesday, November 5, 2014 11:21:18 AM UTC-6, Noah Deuce wrote: 
>>> >> 
>>> >> Hyperbole, sure, but the drum GP has been beating for decades (better 
>>> tire 
>>> >> 
>>> >> clearance, too much emphasis on racing, etc.) has finally turned into 
>>> a 
>>> >> product "category" that may save the industry from itself. 
>>> >> 
>>> >> Just see the latest by Guitar Ted: 
>>> >> http://www.gravelgrindernews.com/less-about-the-rock-and-
>>> more-about-the-roll/ 
>>> >> 
>>> > 
>>> > -- 
>>> > You r

Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Industry Controlled by Grant Peterson

['Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I couldn't agree more.  My tastes in bikes have evolved but I've pretty 
much arrived at wanting an mid-to-late 80's style All-Rounder bike.  I 
struggled with the idea of buying a full-fledged MTB for over a year but I 
finally got out and tried true single-track and discovered I did not enjoy 
it at all.  Pavement, dirt roads, gravel roads, fire trails and even 
relatively smooth but wider single-track sounds fun.  I'm more into the 
journey and the scenery than the high speed, high adrenaline rush of 
shredding. 

I think the closest thing in my price range is going to be a 26" Long Haul 
Trucker and that's what I plan to purchase in the Spring.  I'm thinking it 
will have the benefits of my Takara Highlander but with much more nimble 
and responsive steering.  I'm hoping it's my "perfect" bike.  I'll probably 
keep my Takara as a dedicated single-speed because it is just SO MUCH FUN 
to ride!!  

I almost forgot to ask, but do you remember if your Schwinn Typhoon had the 
horrendous wheel flop that many early ATB's shared and also DID many of the 
early 80's ATB's have that characteristic?  I might replace the Takara as a 
single-speed if I can find a mid-to-late 80's ATB with longer chainstays 
but a steeper headangle and with forward facing dropouts.  



On Thursday, November 6, 2014 9:06:13 AM UTC-6, Montclair BobbyB wrote:
>
> Eric:
>
> Indeed, Mountain Bike WAS an excellent magazine, and (having grown up on a 
> fat-tired Schwinn Typhoon), I remember in 1985 how smitten I became with 
> the whole idea of mountain bikes... WOW, the mere notion of riding bikes in 
> the back-country just blew my mind.  For the entire month of June 1985 I 
> was on a business trip in Pueblo Colorado, where I would hang out every day 
> after work at the local bike shop talking mountain biking with the staff. 
>  I bought a copy of Mountain Bike mag, and there was a feature article 
> about Crested Butte and the emerging mountain biking scene.  I checked the 
> map (hmm, just a few hours away), made hotel reservations for the weekend 
> in Crested Butte, found a local shop to rent me a Rockhopper, and spent 2 
> glorious days riding the high country above CB (Schofield Pass, etc.)... I 
> was HOOKED for life!
>
> Now 30 years later, while my mountain biking has evolved somewhat, and I 
> followed the industry trends for awhile (dabbling with full-suspension, 
> aluminum, titanium, etc)  I've gone back to riding a simple, fully-rigid 
> steel frame/fork (kinda like the original 80s bikes), not because I'm 
> nostalgic, but because it just FEELS right.  And as for the original 80s 
> designs, I think the industry absolutely nailed it in designing perfect 
> workhorse all-rounders build to last... And think about it... the frames, 
> shifters, brake levers, derailleurs etc of the 80s are still around (I 
> actually prefer them) because they were built to LAST!  It's a shame that 
> most of the industry (starting in the late 80s) seemed to drift away from 
> building these super-high-quality, overbuilt bikes and components in favor 
> of evolving designs, and (IMO) cheaper-quality... I hope we're seeing this 
> trend reversed...
>
>
>
>  
> On Thursday, November 6, 2014 7:01:52 AM UTC-5, EricP wrote:
>>
>> While Fat Tire Flyer was my main influence into riding bikes with wider 
>> tires, the short-lived magazine "Mountain Bike - for the Adventure" put out 
>> by Hank Barlow was more my style.  It focused more on touring back roads 
>> and recreational riding, moreso than racing.  Although racing did show up 
>> in the magazine.  The first issue actually had reviews of small tents for 
>> mountain bike touring.
>>
>> Eric Platt
>> St. Paul, MN
>>
>> Eric Platt
>> St. Paul, MN
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 2:15 PM, 'Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I pre-ordered mine on Amazon back when a first came available and 
>>> devoured it once I got it.  You are right, I almost got the Kindle version 
>>> but that would ahve been such a waste on a library quality, coffee table 
>>> sized book full of illustrations and photos.  I've watched Klunkerz, read 
>>> Barto's "Birth of Dirt" as well as a lot of articles but I still learned 
>>> some fascinating stuff.  I also highly recommend it to anyone interested in 
>>> bike history.  
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, November 5, 2014 1:31:12 PM UTC-6, jbu...@gmail.com wrote:

 Chris, all- 

 Re: the Marin-legacy and it's influence on bike culture, check out 
 Charlie Kelley's new memoir, "Fat Tire Flyer". It's a book of both 
 lavish production quality as well as a compelling storytelling. 

 =- Joe Bunik 
 Walnut Creek, CA 

 On 11/5/14, 'Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch 
  wrote: 
 > Nice article.   So basically we are just going back to the 
 All-Terrain 
 > Bikes that came out of Marin County in the late 70's and early 80's. 
   I've 
 > 
 > done a bit of reading about

Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Industry Controlled by Grant Peterson

[Joe Bunik]

It may be hearsay, but I believe the (book, not old zine/mag) FTF
describes a batch of Ritchey-built Moutainbikes that had incorrect ht
angle / rake... which were sold at discount t to their friends
@Specialized. Curiously, the first-gen batch of Japanese stumpjumpers
appeared! replicating the "error". And then everybody and their uncle
jumped into the business... and the rest as they say is history!

=- Joe Bunik
Walnut Creek, CA

On 11/6/14, 'Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch
 wrote:
> I couldn't agree more.  My tastes in bikes have evolved but I've pretty
> much arrived at wanting an mid-to-late 80's style All-Rounder bike.  I
> struggled with the idea of buying a full-fledged MTB for over a year but I
> finally got out and tried true single-track and discovered I did not enjoy
> it at all.  Pavement, dirt roads, gravel roads, fire trails and even
> relatively smooth but wider single-track sounds fun.  I'm more into the
> journey and the scenery than the high speed, high adrenaline rush of
> shredding.
>
> I think the closest thing in my price range is going to be a 26" Long Haul
> Trucker and that's what I plan to purchase in the Spring.  I'm thinking it
> will have the benefits of my Takara Highlander but with much more nimble
> and responsive steering.  I'm hoping it's my "perfect" bike.  I'll probably
>
> keep my Takara as a dedicated single-speed because it is just SO MUCH FUN
> to ride!!
>
> I almost forgot to ask, but do you remember if your Schwinn Typhoon had the
>
> horrendous wheel flop that many early ATB's shared and also DID many of the
>
> early 80's ATB's have that characteristic?  I might replace the Takara as a
>
> single-speed if I can find a mid-to-late 80's ATB with longer chainstays
> but a steeper headangle and with forward facing dropouts.
>
>
>
> On Thursday, November 6, 2014 9:06:13 AM UTC-6, Montclair BobbyB wrote:
>>
>> Eric:
>>
>> Indeed, Mountain Bike WAS an excellent magazine, and (having grown up on a
>>
>> fat-tired Schwinn Typhoon), I remember in 1985 how smitten I became with
>> the whole idea of mountain bikes... WOW, the mere notion of riding bikes
>> in
>> the back-country just blew my mind.  For the entire month of June 1985 I
>> was on a business trip in Pueblo Colorado, where I would hang out every
>> day
>> after work at the local bike shop talking mountain biking with the staff.
>>
>>  I bought a copy of Mountain Bike mag, and there was a feature article
>> about Crested Butte and the emerging mountain biking scene.  I checked the
>>
>> map (hmm, just a few hours away), made hotel reservations for the weekend
>>
>> in Crested Butte, found a local shop to rent me a Rockhopper, and spent 2
>>
>> glorious days riding the high country above CB (Schofield Pass, etc.)... I
>>
>> was HOOKED for life!
>>
>> Now 30 years later, while my mountain biking has evolved somewhat, and I
>> followed the industry trends for awhile (dabbling with full-suspension,
>> aluminum, titanium, etc)  I've gone back to riding a simple, fully-rigid
>> steel frame/fork (kinda like the original 80s bikes), not because I'm
>> nostalgic, but because it just FEELS right.  And as for the original 80s
>> designs, I think the industry absolutely nailed it in designing perfect
>> workhorse all-rounders build to last... And think about it... the frames,
>>
>> shifters, brake levers, derailleurs etc of the 80s are still around (I
>> actually prefer them) because they were built to LAST!  It's a shame that
>>
>> most of the industry (starting in the late 80s) seemed to drift away from
>>
>> building these super-high-quality, overbuilt bikes and components in favor
>>
>> of evolving designs, and (IMO) cheaper-quality... I hope we're seeing this
>>
>> trend reversed...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, November 6, 2014 7:01:52 AM UTC-5, EricP wrote:
>>>
>>> While Fat Tire Flyer was my main influence into riding bikes with wider
>>> tires, the short-lived magazine "Mountain Bike - for the Adventure" put
>>> out
>>> by Hank Barlow was more my style.  It focused more on touring back roads
>>>
>>> and recreational riding, moreso than racing.  Although racing did show up
>>>
>>> in the magazine.  The first issue actually had reviews of small tents for
>>>
>>> mountain bike touring.
>>>
>>> Eric Platt
>>> St. Paul, MN
>>>
>>> Eric Platt
>>> St. Paul, MN
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 2:15 PM, 'Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>
 I pre-ordered mine on Amazon back when a first came available and
 devoured it once I got it.  You are right, I almost got the Kindle
 version
 but that would ahve been such a waste on a library quality, coffee table

 sized book full of illustrations and photos.  I've watched Klunkerz,
 read
 Barto's "Birth of Dirt" as well as a lot of articles but I still learned

 some fascinating stuff.  I also highly recommend it to anyone interested
 in
 bike history.

 On Wednesday, November 5, 20

Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Industry Controlled by Grant Peterson

['Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Yes, that was pretty much the story I was referencing.  This seems to imply 
that the huge wheel flop my Takara has is a result of all the other bike 
companies basically copying the Stumpjumper, which itself was a flawed copy 
of the original Ritchey MTB's.  It really makes me wonder how the Ritchey's 
handled and also how that first batch of 10 Breezers handled.   Charley 
Kelly made it quite clear who he thinks "really" designed the Stumpjumper, 
despite some other guy's name being printed on the frame.  



On Thursday, November 6, 2014 11:11:57 AM UTC-6, jbu...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> It may be hearsay, but I believe the (book, not old zine/mag) FTF 
> describes a batch of Ritchey-built Moutainbikes that had incorrect ht 
> angle / rake... which were sold at discount t to their friends 
> @Specialized. Curiously, the first-gen batch of Japanese stumpjumpers 
> appeared! replicating the "error". And then everybody and their uncle 
> jumped into the business... and the rest as they say is history! 
>
> =- Joe Bunik 
> Walnut Creek, CA 
>
> On 11/6/14, 'Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch 
> > wrote: 
> > I couldn't agree more.  My tastes in bikes have evolved but I've pretty 
> > much arrived at wanting an mid-to-late 80's style All-Rounder bike.  I 
> > struggled with the idea of buying a full-fledged MTB for over a year but 
> I 
> > finally got out and tried true single-track and discovered I did not 
> enjoy 
> > it at all.  Pavement, dirt roads, gravel roads, fire trails and even 
> > relatively smooth but wider single-track sounds fun.  I'm more into the 
> > journey and the scenery than the high speed, high adrenaline rush of 
> > shredding. 
> > 
> > I think the closest thing in my price range is going to be a 26" Long 
> Haul 
> > Trucker and that's what I plan to purchase in the Spring.  I'm thinking 
> it 
> > will have the benefits of my Takara Highlander but with much more nimble 
> > and responsive steering.  I'm hoping it's my "perfect" bike.  I'll 
> probably 
> > 
> > keep my Takara as a dedicated single-speed because it is just SO MUCH 
> FUN 
> > to ride!! 
> > 
> > I almost forgot to ask, but do you remember if your Schwinn Typhoon had 
> the 
> > 
> > horrendous wheel flop that many early ATB's shared and also DID many of 
> the 
> > 
> > early 80's ATB's have that characteristic?  I might replace the Takara 
> as a 
> > 
> > single-speed if I can find a mid-to-late 80's ATB with longer chainstays 
> > but a steeper headangle and with forward facing dropouts. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Thursday, November 6, 2014 9:06:13 AM UTC-6, Montclair BobbyB wrote: 
> >> 
> >> Eric: 
> >> 
> >> Indeed, Mountain Bike WAS an excellent magazine, and (having grown up 
> on a 
> >> 
> >> fat-tired Schwinn Typhoon), I remember in 1985 how smitten I became 
> with 
> >> the whole idea of mountain bikes... WOW, the mere notion of riding 
> bikes 
> >> in 
> >> the back-country just blew my mind.  For the entire month of June 1985 
> I 
> >> was on a business trip in Pueblo Colorado, where I would hang out every 
> >> day 
> >> after work at the local bike shop talking mountain biking with the 
> staff. 
> >> 
> >>  I bought a copy of Mountain Bike mag, and there was a feature article 
> >> about Crested Butte and the emerging mountain biking scene.  I checked 
> the 
> >> 
> >> map (hmm, just a few hours away), made hotel reservations for the 
> weekend 
> >> 
> >> in Crested Butte, found a local shop to rent me a Rockhopper, and spent 
> 2 
> >> 
> >> glorious days riding the high country above CB (Schofield Pass, 
> etc.)... I 
> >> 
> >> was HOOKED for life! 
> >> 
> >> Now 30 years later, while my mountain biking has evolved somewhat, and 
> I 
> >> followed the industry trends for awhile (dabbling with full-suspension, 
> >> aluminum, titanium, etc)  I've gone back to riding a simple, 
> fully-rigid 
> >> steel frame/fork (kinda like the original 80s bikes), not because I'm 
> >> nostalgic, but because it just FEELS right.  And as for the original 
> 80s 
> >> designs, I think the industry absolutely nailed it in designing perfect 
> >> workhorse all-rounders build to last... And think about it... the 
> frames, 
> >> 
> >> shifters, brake levers, derailleurs etc of the 80s are still around (I 
> >> actually prefer them) because they were built to LAST!  It's a shame 
> that 
> >> 
> >> most of the industry (starting in the late 80s) seemed to drift away 
> from 
> >> 
> >> building these super-high-quality, overbuilt bikes and components in 
> favor 
> >> 
> >> of evolving designs, and (IMO) cheaper-quality... I hope we're seeing 
> this 
> >> 
> >> trend reversed... 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On Thursday, November 6, 2014 7:01:52 AM UTC-5, EricP wrote: 
> >>> 
> >>> While Fat Tire Flyer was my main influence into riding bikes with 
> wider 
> >>> tires, the short-lived magazine "Mountain Bike - for the Adventure" 
> put 
> >>> out 
> >>> by Hank Barlow was more my style.  It focused more on touring 

Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Industry Controlled by Grant Peterson

[David Yu Greenblatt]

More than a "mountain bike" or "gravel grinder" I love the idea of an
"all-terrain,
go anywhere, ride all day" bike that can "do it all" (DIA):
http://www.mountainflyermagazine.com/view.php/touching-metal.html

- David G in San Diego



On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 8:00 AM, Anton Tutter  wrote:

> Right, and GP wasn't the only one preaching that sermon. There was also
> Jan Heine and to a lesser extent and more recently, VO.
>
> I do dislike the term "gravel grinding", because it has connotations of
> effort and exertion. I prefer dirt-road riding, or gravel road riding, or
> even mixed terrain riding, but none of those sound particularly catchy.
>
> Anton
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, November 5, 2014 11:13:20 PM UTC-5, Mike Schiller wrote:
>>
>> not quite decades... but certainly for the last few years. Many Rivs from
>> the late 90's wont fit anything larger than 32mm tires. And lest we forget
>> many sport tourers from the 60-70's fit 35mm tires.  and of course
>> those demi-balloon 40-50 mm tired bikes from France.
>>
>> as far as "gravel" riders the gravel races are races, full lycra kits
>> and an emphasis on speed ... certainly not unracers.
>>
>>
>> ~mike
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 5, 2014 9:21:18 AM UTC-8, Noah Deuce wrote:
>>>
>>> Hyperbole, sure, but the drum GP has been beating for decades (better
>>> tire clearance, too much emphasis on racing, etc.) has finally turned into
>>> a product "category" that may save the industry from itself.
>>>
>>> Just see the latest by Guitar Ted: http://www.gravelgrindernews.
>>> com/less-about-the-rock-and-more-about-the-roll/
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Industry Controlled by Grant Peterson

[Anne Paulson]

The emotional support and affirmation is so important. Most of the
people I ride with have carbon bikes, or if we're riding off-road,
they have full-suspension mountain bikes. It can be hard to be the
only one on steel, with wider tires. Without the affirmation that I'm
not the only one, I'd have a tough time saying, "No. That's not what I
want. Those narrow tires, that carbon fiber bike, those bikes that
can't carry anything, those don't fulfill my needs," when everyone
else is telling me to get a carbon fiber road bike and a suspension on
my off-road bike.

So thanks, Grant, and thanks, all Riv folks on this list, for having my back.

On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 9:56 AM, Grant Petersen
 wrote:

>
> This is neat, because it has proved that NON-racers can drive things, too.
> The internet helps. Without the emotional support and affirmation that comes
> from unseen strangers, a lot of people would be timid to go this way, or
> wouldn't even know it was an option.

-- 
-- Anne Paulson

It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Industry Controlled by Grant Peterson

[Chris Chen]

Well, sure, Grant Petersen might be awww shucks but what 'bout Grant
Peterson? I hear that guy's a jerk

On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 11:18 AM, Anne Paulson 
wrote:

> The emotional support and affirmation is so important. Most of the
> people I ride with have carbon bikes, or if we're riding off-road,
> they have full-suspension mountain bikes. It can be hard to be the
> only one on steel, with wider tires. Without the affirmation that I'm
> not the only one, I'd have a tough time saying, "No. That's not what I
> want. Those narrow tires, that carbon fiber bike, those bikes that
> can't carry anything, those don't fulfill my needs," when everyone
> else is telling me to get a carbon fiber road bike and a suspension on
> my off-road bike.
>
> So thanks, Grant, and thanks, all Riv folks on this list, for having my
> back.
>
> On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 9:56 AM, Grant Petersen
>  wrote:
>
> >
> > This is neat, because it has proved that NON-racers can drive things,
> too.
> > The internet helps. Without the emotional support and affirmation that
> comes
> > from unseen strangers, a lot of people would be timid to go this way, or
> > wouldn't even know it was an option.
>
> --
> -- Anne Paulson
>
> It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>



-- 
"I want the kind of six pack you can't drink." -- Micah

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Industry Controlled by Grant Peterson

['Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch]

LOVE Cunningham's and Potts' concept.  The execution of the concept.not 
so much.  



On Thursday, November 6, 2014 11:25:45 AM UTC-6, David G wrote:
>
> More than a "mountain bike" or "gravel grinder" I love the idea of an 
> "all-terrain, 
> go anywhere, ride all day" bike that can "do it all" (DIA):
> http://www.mountainflyermagazine.com/view.php/touching-metal.html
>
> - David G in San Diego
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 8:00 AM, Anton Tutter  > wrote:
>
>> Right, and GP wasn't the only one preaching that sermon. There was also 
>> Jan Heine and to a lesser extent and more recently, VO.
>>
>> I do dislike the term "gravel grinding", because it has connotations of 
>> effort and exertion. I prefer dirt-road riding, or gravel road riding, or 
>> even mixed terrain riding, but none of those sound particularly catchy.
>>
>> Anton
>>
>>  
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 5, 2014 11:13:20 PM UTC-5, Mike Schiller wrote:
>>>
>>> not quite decades... but certainly for the last few years. Many Rivs 
>>> from the late 90's wont fit anything larger than 32mm tires. And lest we 
>>> forget many sport tourers from the 60-70's fit 35mm tires.  and of 
>>> course those demi-balloon 40-50 mm tired bikes from France. 
>>>
>>> as far as "gravel" riders the gravel races are races, full lycra 
>>> kits and an emphasis on speed ... certainly not unracers.
>>>
>>>
>>> ~mike
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, November 5, 2014 9:21:18 AM UTC-8, Noah Deuce wrote:

 Hyperbole, sure, but the drum GP has been beating for decades (better 
 tire clearance, too much emphasis on racing, etc.) has finally turned into 
 a product "category" that may save the industry from itself. 

 Just see the latest by Guitar Ted: http://www.gravelgrindernews.
 com/less-about-the-rock-and-more-about-the-roll/

>>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Industry Controlled by Grant Peterson

[Hugh Smitham]

"MT"

-Hugh
On Nov 6, 2014 4:39 PM, "'Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch" <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> That's actually a better descriptive term but it doesn't quite roll off
> the tongue like "ATB" or "MTB".  :)
>
> On Thursday, November 6, 2014 5:14:38 PM UTC-6, hsmitham wrote:
>>
>> I prefer "Mixed Terrain " my self.
>>
>> -Hugh
>>
>> On Thursday, November 6, 2014 8:00:04 AM UTC-8, Anton Tutter wrote:
>> > Right, and GP wasn't the only one preaching that sermon. There was also
>> Jan Heine and to a lesser extent and more recently, VO.
>> >
>> > I do dislike the term "gravel grinding", because it has connotations of
>> effort and exertion. I prefer dirt-road riding, or gravel road riding, or
>> even mixed terrain riding, but none of those sound particularly catchy.
>> >
>> > Anton
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wednesday, November 5, 2014 11:13:20 PM UTC-5, Mike Schiller wrote:
>> > not quite decades... but certainly for the last few years. Many Rivs
>> from the late 90's wont fit anything larger than 32mm tires. And lest we
>> forget many sport tourers from the 60-70's fit 35mm tires.  and of
>> course those demi-balloon 40-50 mm tired bikes from France.
>> >
>> >
>> > as far as "gravel" riders the gravel races are races, full lycra
>> kits and an emphasis on speed ... certainly not unracers.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ~mike
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wednesday, November 5, 2014 9:21:18 AM UTC-8, Noah Deuce
>> wrote:Hyperbole, sure, but the drum GP has been beating for decades (better
>> tire clearance, too much emphasis on racing, etc.) has finally turned into
>> a product "category" that may save the industry from itself.
>> > Just see the latest by Guitar Ted: http://www.gravelgrindernews.
>> com/less-about-the-rock-and-more-about-the-roll/
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Industry Controlled by Grant Peterson

[Montclair BobbyB]

Ah, the KOM... Beauty!!! Out-aggro'd?  Perhaps, but seldom out-classed!! 
 Keep that beauty in the family for sure.  BB   

On Thursday, November 6, 2014 11:16:20 AM UTC-5, Tim Gavin wrote:
>
> I agree, there were some great "all-terrain" bikes built in the 80s.  I 
> love my '88 Schwinn KOM (lugs, prestige, XT, and now drops).  It's funny 
> how a bike that was built as an aggressive racer (and championship winner!) 
> has been out-aggro'd by 30 years of suspension and fat tires.
>
>
>
> I ride a head-shock Cannondale--and now my new Fatboy--for aggressive 
> single track.  The obstacles and big hits are better handled by those newer 
> bikes with knobby tires and wide handlebars.  
>
> But the KOM is still a fast, playful, indestructible bike and makes a 
> great bike for gravel.  The drop bars really changed the feel of the bike 
> (or how I feel on it), and now it just flies on any surface.
>
> I recently broke the original XT rear derailer, and I had to choke back a 
> tear for losing such a trusty, original component.  But, the new cheapo 
> Acera RD is lighter and smoother--maybe because of those huge pulleys Grant 
> likes so much!  (That said, anyone have a XT-M730 RD 
> 
>  
> around?  Or for parts?)
>
> Old steel is still real!  With new paint, I'll be passing this bike (and 
> my others) down to future generations.
>
> Tim
> in:
>
>
>
>
>> Now 30 years later, while my mountain biking has evolved somewhat, and I 
>> followed the industry trends for awhile (dabbling with full-suspension, 
>> aluminum, titanium, etc)  I've gone back to riding a simple, fully-rigid 
>> steel frame/fork (kinda like the original 80s bikes), not because I'm 
>> nostalgic, but because it just FEELS right.  And as for the original 80s 
>> designs, I think the industry absolutely nailed it in designing perfect 
>> workhorse all-rounders build to last... And think about it... the frames, 
>> shifters, brake levers, derailleurs etc of the 80s are still around (I 
>> actually prefer them) because they were built to LAST!  It's a shame that 
>> most of the industry (starting in the late 80s) seemed to drift away from 
>> building these super-high-quality, overbuilt bikes and components in favor 
>> of evolving designs, and (IMO) cheaper-quality... I hope we're seeing this 
>> trend reversed...
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Industry Controlled by Grant Peterson

[Montclair BobbyB]

Chris:

I didn't take my Typhoon on many actual trails (although I'm sure I would 
have struggled on climbs), but I sure spent lots of time on grass, jumping 
curbs, and skidding on gravel-dirt like nobody's business... 

Funny story, I spent a year a Univ of Dayton in 1976, and took along my 
trusty campus cruiser ('62 red Typhoon with white pinstriped rims and 
bricktread fat tires). One of my dorm buddies took a particular shining to 
it, and always asked to borrow it (everyone else riding their racing bikes 
around campus made fun of my Typhoon)... But this one guy (had a gleam in 
his eye when he looked at my Typhoon) and would ride it over anything that 
DIDN'T resemble a road, including snow mounds, stairs... you name it.  And 
BTW that guy's name was Maurice Tierney, who *(many years later)* founded 
Dirt Rag / Bicycle Times.  *(I like to kid around and claim that I got 
Maurice hooked on mountain biking... oddly there's a little bit of truth to 
that... and we owe lots of thanks to Frank Schwinn, father of the original 
fat tire movement... the rest is history.)*  

BB

On Thursday, November 6, 2014 11:54:25 AM UTC-5, Chris Lampe 2 wrote:
>
> I couldn't agree more.  My tastes in bikes have evolved but I've pretty 
> much arrived at wanting an mid-to-late 80's style All-Rounder bike.  I 
> struggled with the idea of buying a full-fledged MTB for over a year but I 
> finally got out and tried true single-track and discovered I did not enjoy 
> it at all.  Pavement, dirt roads, gravel roads, fire trails and even 
> relatively smooth but wider single-track sounds fun.  I'm more into the 
> journey and the scenery than the high speed, high adrenaline rush of 
> shredding. 
>
> I think the closest thing in my price range is going to be a 26" Long Haul 
> Trucker and that's what I plan to purchase in the Spring.  I'm thinking it 
> will have the benefits of my Takara Highlander but with much more nimble 
> and responsive steering.  I'm hoping it's my "perfect" bike.  I'll probably 
> keep my Takara as a dedicated single-speed because it is just SO MUCH FUN 
> to ride!!  
>
> I almost forgot to ask, but do you remember if your Schwinn Typhoon had 
> the horrendous wheel flop that many early ATB's shared and also DID many of 
> the early 80's ATB's have that characteristic?  I might replace the Takara 
> as a single-speed if I can find a mid-to-late 80's ATB with longer 
> chainstays but a steeper headangle and with forward facing dropouts.  
>
>
>
> On Thursday, November 6, 2014 9:06:13 AM UTC-6, Montclair BobbyB wrote:
>>
>> Eric:
>>
>> Indeed, Mountain Bike WAS an excellent magazine, and (having grown up on 
>> a fat-tired Schwinn Typhoon), I remember in 1985 how smitten I became with 
>> the whole idea of mountain bikes... WOW, the mere notion of riding bikes in 
>> the back-country just blew my mind.  For the entire month of June 1985 I 
>> was on a business trip in Pueblo Colorado, where I would hang out every day 
>> after work at the local bike shop talking mountain biking with the staff. 
>>  I bought a copy of Mountain Bike mag, and there was a feature article 
>> about Crested Butte and the emerging mountain biking scene.  I checked the 
>> map (hmm, just a few hours away), made hotel reservations for the weekend 
>> in Crested Butte, found a local shop to rent me a Rockhopper, and spent 2 
>> glorious days riding the high country above CB (Schofield Pass, etc.)... I 
>> was HOOKED for life!
>>
>> Now 30 years later, while my mountain biking has evolved somewhat, and I 
>> followed the industry trends for awhile (dabbling with full-suspension, 
>> aluminum, titanium, etc)  I've gone back to riding a simple, fully-rigid 
>> steel frame/fork (kinda like the original 80s bikes), not because I'm 
>> nostalgic, but because it just FEELS right.  And as for the original 80s 
>> designs, I think the industry absolutely nailed it in designing perfect 
>> workhorse all-rounders build to last... And think about it... the frames, 
>> shifters, brake levers, derailleurs etc of the 80s are still around (I 
>> actually prefer them) because they were built to LAST!  It's a shame that 
>> most of the industry (starting in the late 80s) seemed to drift away from 
>> building these super-high-quality, overbuilt bikes and components in favor 
>> of evolving designs, and (IMO) cheaper-quality... I hope we're seeing this 
>> trend reversed...
>>
>>
>>
>>  
>> On Thursday, November 6, 2014 7:01:52 AM UTC-5, EricP wrote:
>>>
>>> While Fat Tire Flyer was my main influence into riding bikes with wider 
>>> tires, the short-lived magazine "Mountain Bike - for the Adventure" put out 
>>> by Hank Barlow was more my style.  It focused more on touring back roads 
>>> and recreational riding, moreso than racing.  Although racing did show up 
>>> in the magazine.  The first issue actually had reviews of small tents for 
>>> mountain bike touring.
>>>
>>> Eric Platt
>>> St. Paul, MN
>>>
>>> Eric Platt
>>> St. Paul, MN
>>>
>>> On

Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Industry Controlled by Grant Peterson

['Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I don't do much off-road riding either but that style of bike is fun to 
ride anywhere!! 

I found what is basically an engineering drawing that Joe Breeze did of 
Breezer #1 and it had a 67.5 degree head angle and 50mm of rake on the 
fork.  Given that Tom Ritchey was influenced by the Breezers, I doubt there 
was a huge difference in the way the Breezers and Ritcheys rode versus the 
Stumpjumpers and other mass produced MTB's.  

I'm finding that on my old Highlander, the key is to really use my body 
more and my handlebars less.  I tend to do this on any bike but I'm finding 
that greatly exaggerating what I do on my other, more nimble, bikes works 
really well on this one.  Fat tires, long wheelbase, slack angles and one 
gear.LOVE IT!!  





On Friday, November 7, 2014 9:44:04 AM UTC-6, Montclair BobbyB wrote:
>
> Chris:
>
> I didn't take my Typhoon on many actual trails (although I'm sure I would 
> have struggled on climbs), but I sure spent lots of time on grass, jumping 
> curbs, and skidding on gravel-dirt like nobody's business... 
>
> Funny story, I spent a year a Univ of Dayton in 1976, and took along my 
> trusty campus cruiser ('62 red Typhoon with white pinstriped rims and 
> bricktread fat tires). One of my dorm buddies took a particular shining to 
> it, and always asked to borrow it (everyone else riding their racing bikes 
> around campus made fun of my Typhoon)... But this one guy (had a gleam in 
> his eye when he looked at my Typhoon) and would ride it over anything that 
> DIDN'T resemble a road, including snow mounds, stairs... you name it.  And 
> BTW that guy's name was Maurice Tierney, who *(many years later)* founded 
> Dirt Rag / Bicycle Times.  *(I like to kid around and claim that I got 
> Maurice hooked on mountain biking... oddly there's a little bit of truth to 
> that... and we owe lots of thanks to Frank Schwinn, father of the original 
> fat tire movement... the rest is history.)*  
>
> BB
>
>


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Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Industry Controlled by Grant Peterson

[tarik saleh]

Hey Bobby,

That is a great story indeed. As someone who has had a passel of typhoons
over the years which have seen a fair bit of off road action, and as
someone who has met and ridden with Maurice a few times, and been a dirt
rag subscriber since the nineties, I really appreciate it.

Thanks

Tarik


On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 8:44 AM, Montclair BobbyB 
wrote:

> Chris:
>
> I didn't take my Typhoon on many actual trails (although I'm sure I would
> have struggled on climbs), but I sure spent lots of time on grass, jumping
> curbs, and skidding on gravel-dirt like nobody's business...
>
> Funny story, I spent a year a Univ of Dayton in 1976, and took along my
> trusty campus cruiser ('62 red Typhoon with white pinstriped rims and
> bricktread fat tires). One of my dorm buddies took a particular shining to
> it, and always asked to borrow it (everyone else riding their racing bikes
> around campus made fun of my Typhoon)... But this one guy (had a gleam in
> his eye when he looked at my Typhoon) and would ride it over anything that
> DIDN'T resemble a road, including snow mounds, stairs... you name it.  And
> BTW that guy's name was Maurice Tierney, who *(many years later)* founded
> Dirt Rag / Bicycle Times.  *(I like to kid around and claim that I got
> Maurice hooked on mountain biking... oddly there's a little bit of truth to
> that... and we owe lots of thanks to Frank Schwinn, father of the original
> fat tire movement... the rest is history.)*
>
> BB
>
>
> On Thursday, November 6, 2014 11:54:25 AM UTC-5, Chris Lampe 2 wrote:
>>
>> I couldn't agree more.  My tastes in bikes have evolved but I've pretty
>> much arrived at wanting an mid-to-late 80's style All-Rounder bike.  I
>> struggled with the idea of buying a full-fledged MTB for over a year but I
>> finally got out and tried true single-track and discovered I did not enjoy
>> it at all.  Pavement, dirt roads, gravel roads, fire trails and even
>> relatively smooth but wider single-track sounds fun.  I'm more into the
>> journey and the scenery than the high speed, high adrenaline rush of
>> shredding.
>>
>> I think the closest thing in my price range is going to be a 26" Long
>> Haul Trucker and that's what I plan to purchase in the Spring.  I'm
>> thinking it will have the benefits of my Takara Highlander but with much
>> more nimble and responsive steering.  I'm hoping it's my "perfect" bike.
>> I'll probably keep my Takara as a dedicated single-speed because it is just
>> SO MUCH FUN to ride!!
>>
>> I almost forgot to ask, but do you remember if your Schwinn Typhoon had
>> the horrendous wheel flop that many early ATB's shared and also DID many of
>> the early 80's ATB's have that characteristic?  I might replace the Takara
>> as a single-speed if I can find a mid-to-late 80's ATB with longer
>> chainstays but a steeper headangle and with forward facing dropouts.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, November 6, 2014 9:06:13 AM UTC-6, Montclair BobbyB wrote:
>>>
>>> Eric:
>>>
>>> Indeed, Mountain Bike WAS an excellent magazine, and (having grown up on
>>> a fat-tired Schwinn Typhoon), I remember in 1985 how smitten I became with
>>> the whole idea of mountain bikes... WOW, the mere notion of riding bikes in
>>> the back-country just blew my mind.  For the entire month of June 1985 I
>>> was on a business trip in Pueblo Colorado, where I would hang out every day
>>> after work at the local bike shop talking mountain biking with the staff.
>>> I bought a copy of Mountain Bike mag, and there was a feature article about
>>> Crested Butte and the emerging mountain biking scene.  I checked the map
>>> (hmm, just a few hours away), made hotel reservations for the weekend in
>>> Crested Butte, found a local shop to rent me a Rockhopper, and spent 2
>>> glorious days riding the high country above CB (Schofield Pass, etc.)... I
>>> was HOOKED for life!
>>>
>>> Now 30 years later, while my mountain biking has evolved somewhat, and I
>>> followed the industry trends for awhile (dabbling with full-suspension,
>>> aluminum, titanium, etc)  I've gone back to riding a simple, fully-rigid
>>> steel frame/fork (kinda like the original 80s bikes), not because I'm
>>> nostalgic, but because it just FEELS right.  And as for the original 80s
>>> designs, I think the industry absolutely nailed it in designing perfect
>>> workhorse all-rounders build to last... And think about it... the frames,
>>> shifters, brake levers, derailleurs etc of the 80s are still around (I
>>> actually prefer them) because they were built to LAST!  It's a shame that
>>> most of the industry (starting in the late 80s) seemed to drift away from
>>> building these super-high-quality, overbuilt bikes and components in favor
>>> of evolving designs, and (IMO) cheaper-quality... I hope we're seeing this
>>> trend reversed...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, November 6, 2014 7:01:52 AM UTC-5, EricP wrote:

 While Fat Tire Flyer was my main influence into riding bikes with wider
 tires, the short-liv