[RBW] Re: Cambium Test. Stainless Steel Spoke Corrosion? 7-speed Hubs?
While the C17 didn't jive with me, I'd like to pass along some info. Was at the LBS when a Brooks' rep dropped off some new Cambium samples: C17 in BLACK and C15 in BROWN. If you were on the fence based on color or size, there's new options brewing. David Chicago -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Cambium Test. Stainless Steel Spoke Corrosion? 7-speed Hubs?
Thanks David. Definitely interested in a black C-17 for a forthcoming build. On Thursday, September 4, 2014 8:04:56 PM UTC-5, David Banzer wrote: While the C17 didn't jive with me, I'd like to pass along some info. Was at the LBS when a Brooks' rep dropped off some new Cambium samples: C17 in BLACK and C15 in BROWN. If you were on the fence based on color or size, there's new options brewing. David Chicago -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Cambium Test. Stainless Steel Spoke Corrosion? 7-speed Hubs?
Take a look at the face of the broken spokes with a magnifying glass. If there is a bit of corrosion in the face, say more than the area that looks freshly broken, then the rust may have been working its way in there for a while. I have a wheel that I bought as a test sample for possible OEM spec about 2 years ago, factory built with DT spokes. Recently started popping drive side spokes in rapid succession, All breaks at mid spoke. Even after replacement spokes for those broken and careful tension balance, problem persisted. I still need to contact both the wheel vendor and DT this week, but it is clearly a corrosion problem. I have had surface pitting on most of my spokes living near the coast my entire life. This is the first time I have observed deep penetration leading to failure. Most of my graduate work was corrosion and fracture mechanics, if anybody wants a deeper explanation I will likely bore you to sleep. But It is looking a lot like a batch of bad spokes, at least for my wheel, so it can happen Rob On Tuesday, August 12, 2014 6:52:25 AM UTC-7, Garth wrote: from here : http://www.sapim.be/nl/where-and-when-does-a-spoke-break-nl Where and when does a spoke break? (nl) *Normally just before the bend (this is fairly standard after many years use)* - The rim has been damaged - even the smallest dent can be the cause; - The use of non-compatible components; Irregular tension on the spokes; - A gap exists in the spoke-nipple alignment; - *Is it possible to replace 1 or 2 spokes *or do you have to replace all the spokes and re-spoke the wheel? If you do not re-spoke the wheel, the replaced spokes will have to be very tightly tensioned if the wheel is to be round and true. Do not forget when the first spoke breaks, all the other spokes suddenly have a different tension pattern! Also the rim structure goes out of line. If you only replace 1 or 2 spokes, you can expect these or the spokes next to them to break again. It is best to re-spoke the entire wheel and to replace the hub just in case the hub holes are damaged. It is possible to re-use the hub by mounting the spokes in the opposite direction (i.e. not in the direction of the ovalisation of the hub holes). *The spoke head breaks off (this is unusual)* - Bad positioning of the head in the hub (e.g. a slant position puts all the pressure on one side of the bottom of the spoke head. As a result the head snaps off, the so-called bottle cap effect). - The hub flange is too thick and is not suited to the length of the spoke bend (i.e. all the pressure is on the head, which will be excessively stressed and rip off). - If the wrong cross pattern is chosen, e.g. cross 4 on large flange hubs, the spoke bend can rub against the adjacent spoke head. This should be avoided. *The spoke thread breaks in the nipple* - This often occurs as a result of nipple/rim and spoke mis-alignment. - If spokes are used which are too long, new threads in the nipple will be made. Under heavy pressure the spoke threads will be stressed too greatly. - Spokes which are too short may also break at the spoke thread. *When the thinner middle section breaks (on single or double butted spokes)* - Any object striking a moving wheel causes damage (sometimes only visible with a magnifying glass or microscope). - Top quality manufacture will safeguard against damage. Lower standard processes will produce an inferior quality. SAPIM draws wire in such way that no change in molecular material structure occurs. The spoke does not twist much when it is built into a wheel. - Aerodynamic, elliptical spokes, such as the SAPIM CX-Ray spoke, are best fitted with a special CX-Ray key. This will prevent the spokes from twisting during lacing and centring. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Cambium Test. Stainless Steel Spoke Corrosion? 7-speed Hubs?
Waitaminute - the Cambiums on sale at my LBS are clearly labeled Made in Italy. My understanding was that they were OEMed by Selle Italia for Brooks. How does Brooks' tooling and machinery have any bearing on the price of a saddle manufactured by a subcontractor? Maybe I'm missing some key bit of information. I stopped paying attention to the Cambium developments once I failed to make it into the beta test. Peter Adler Berkeley, CA/USA On Monday, August 11, 2014 2:48:39 PM UTC-7, David Banzer wrote: I would think with Brooks' tooling and machinery in place, that a leather saddle would be less expensive for them to make than the Cambium. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Cambium Test. Stainless Steel Spoke Corrosion? 7-speed Hubs?
That was kind of my point. For leather saddles, Brooks already has tooling and machinery in place. For the new Cambium's, they're paying a subcontractor to make a new saddle model, needing new tooling and machinery. No matter who is making it, new products require initial investment to produce, making the Cambium's potentially more expensive to make (and subsequently cost to Brooks) than Brooks' leather models. David Chicago On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 4:21:10 AM UTC-5, Peter Adler wrote: Waitaminute - the Cambiums on sale at my LBS are clearly labeled Made in Italy. My understanding was that they were OEMed by Selle Italia for Brooks. How does Brooks' tooling and machinery have any bearing on the price of a saddle manufactured by a subcontractor? Maybe I'm missing some key bit of information. I stopped paying attention to the Cambium developments once I failed to make it into the beta test. Peter Adler Berkeley, CA/USA On Monday, August 11, 2014 2:48:39 PM UTC-7, David Banzer wrote: I would think with Brooks' tooling and machinery in place, that a leather saddle would be less expensive for them to make than the Cambium. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Cambium Test. Stainless Steel Spoke Corrosion? 7-speed Hubs?
My understanding was that they were OEMed by Selle Italia for Brooks. Selle Italia owns Brooks. Appears the Cambium is an effort to expand sales in markets where the Brooks name is better known to customers who either want to have alternatives to their Brooks products or would not necessarily buy Brooks for whatever reason. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Cambium Test. Stainless Steel Spoke Corrosion? 7-speed Hubs?
I have to say, I was pretty stumped when I saw they had broken at the crossover. I've seen a bunch of broken spokes working in a shop, but cannot think of one incident broken there. Generally its the spoke head, followed by the threaded end, and then at the butting. Any mid spoke break has been due to damage from a crash or rock impact. It's certainly not uncommon for multiple spokes to go in short succession, as the first one popping stresses the neighbors. My guess is that there was some slight lateral play (loose tension) in the wheel and they had been slowly sawing away at each other. But if that's true, you should be able to see the same indication on the remaining spokes. If you push them apart, can you see any groves or gouges? On Monday, August 11, 2014 9:20:14 PM UTC-6, David Banzer wrote: Nope! Any other reason for repeated spokes breaking at crossing point? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Cambium Test. Stainless Steel Spoke Corrosion? 7-speed Hubs?
from here : http://www.sapim.be/nl/where-and-when-does-a-spoke-break-nl Where and when does a spoke break? (nl) *Normally just before the bend (this is fairly standard after many years use)* - The rim has been damaged - even the smallest dent can be the cause; - The use of non-compatible components; Irregular tension on the spokes; - A gap exists in the spoke-nipple alignment; - *Is it possible to replace 1 or 2 spokes *or do you have to replace all the spokes and re-spoke the wheel? If you do not re-spoke the wheel, the replaced spokes will have to be very tightly tensioned if the wheel is to be round and true. Do not forget when the first spoke breaks, all the other spokes suddenly have a different tension pattern! Also the rim structure goes out of line. If you only replace 1 or 2 spokes, you can expect these or the spokes next to them to break again. It is best to re-spoke the entire wheel and to replace the hub just in case the hub holes are damaged. It is possible to re-use the hub by mounting the spokes in the opposite direction (i.e. not in the direction of the ovalisation of the hub holes). *The spoke head breaks off (this is unusual)* - Bad positioning of the head in the hub (e.g. a slant position puts all the pressure on one side of the bottom of the spoke head. As a result the head snaps off, the so-called bottle cap effect). - The hub flange is too thick and is not suited to the length of the spoke bend (i.e. all the pressure is on the head, which will be excessively stressed and rip off). - If the wrong cross pattern is chosen, e.g. cross 4 on large flange hubs, the spoke bend can rub against the adjacent spoke head. This should be avoided. *The spoke thread breaks in the nipple* - This often occurs as a result of nipple/rim and spoke mis-alignment. - If spokes are used which are too long, new threads in the nipple will be made. Under heavy pressure the spoke threads will be stressed too greatly. - Spokes which are too short may also break at the spoke thread. *When the thinner middle section breaks (on single or double butted spokes)* - Any object striking a moving wheel causes damage (sometimes only visible with a magnifying glass or microscope). - Top quality manufacture will safeguard against damage. Lower standard processes will produce an inferior quality. SAPIM draws wire in such way that no change in molecular material structure occurs. The spoke does not twist much when it is built into a wheel. - Aerodynamic, elliptical spokes, such as the SAPIM CX-Ray spoke, are best fitted with a special CX-Ray key. This will prevent the spokes from twisting during lacing and centring. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Cambium Test. Stainless Steel Spoke Corrosion? 7-speed Hubs?
There are tiny notches at other crosses, so the driveside spokes may have been under tensioned, though I don't feel any loose play in the remaining driveside spokes. I used straight gauge SS Sapim spokes. Probably go for butted spokes next build. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Cambium Test. Stainless Steel Spoke Corrosion? 7-speed Hubs?
From what I've read, the Cambiums don't break in. The intent is that the rubber will perform similarly to a broken-in leather saddle, such that it is ready to ride from new (no break in needed) and does not wear out. They seem to be popular enough that I'll be surprised if they don't introduce some sprung models eventually--those would have wider profiles for more upright riding. I'm ~200 pounds, mostly upright, and 30 to 50 mile rides are rare indulgences in time, and the Cambium has been very comfortable for me. I feel the spring of the saddle over bad pavement. I do have to be careful with the angle, though. If it's nosed up at all numbness starts in. Stainless will corrode, it's just way less likely too. As for chloride and acidic conditions, I'd think that the salt and grit of a Chicago street would qualify. Certainly couldn't say that's your problem with the spokes, though. I'm visiting Chicago this weekend, and was thinking I might whittle some time out to visit Comrade, as it's close to where I'm staying. Lots to do, though. Arts spaces, galleries, and friends are all ahead of bikes for this trip. On Monday, August 11, 2014 2:43:44 PM UTC-5, David Banzer wrote: My LBS wonderfully let me borrow a Cambium tester saddle and I set out for a ride from Chicago to Waukegan to meet my girlfriend at a family event. I'll start by saying this... I really, really, really wanted to like the Cambium and already put aside money to buy one. My LBS (Comrade in Chicago) let me test out a Cambium before I decided. The saddle looks very nice and gives a more modern look over a classic leather saddle, and it also looked great on my Redwood with gray shellacked Newbaum's tape. It felt comfortable right away and coupled with the fact that I had already in my mind decided to buy a new one, pretty much had me sold... Until the ride continued and after mile 20 or so, it was not so comfortable at all and I kicked myself for not packing my broken-in B17 just in case. The Cambium felt narrow to me and felt too firm. I wish the rubber could've given more. I'm not too sure if these indeed do break-in a bit like leather, but I figured the saddle already had a buncha use and should've been broken-in already. All in all, it took me awhile to realize that the Cambium just isn't for me for long rides. I could see it being fine for an errand bike, but at its pricepoint, it doesn't make sense to me. Bummer. Guess I'll spend some money on something else. ... A few miles away from my destination I heard a distinct PING! I knew that sound - broken spoke. Oh well, I'll gingerly get it the last 5 miles and figure out what to do later. Until a mile later, another distinct PING! Two adjacent driveside spokes broken at the cross point. Time to call for help. Wheel was wobbling and locking up against brake pads that were already opened up. I examined the wheel and saw what looked like corrosion at the cross point on most driveside spokes. I was surprised as the spokes were stainless steel and I'd been riding this self built wheel for close to 5 years without any issue. Question then: Will stainless steel spokes corrode over time? Wheel obviously needs a complete rebuild. Got me thinking then about a 7-speed hub spaced at 135mm, which should have close to zero dish. This should be stronger then a 8/9/10 speed hub spaced at 130mm? The Redwood is 132.5 which'll take either 130 or 135. I've been using 8-speed 130mm. Any insights? Lastly, shameless plug... Have several bags (including ones on Redwood) for sale at treetop.bigcartel.com - contact offlist for a better price than listed there. Thanks, David Chicago -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Cambium Test. Stainless Steel Spoke Corrosion? 7-speed Hubs?
Perhaps if the spokes are undertensioned, as the wheel turns under load and spokes experience loading/unloading, they will flex and move relative to each other (rub) at the crossing point, which could affect the finish/corrosion resistance/strength of the spokes at that point? On Monday, August 11, 2014 8:20:14 PM UTC-7, David Banzer wrote: Nope! Any other reason for repeated spokes breaking at crossing point? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Cambium Test. Stainless Steel Spoke Corrosion? 7-speed Hubs?
I had the same experience trying out a used Cambium. I rode it for about 20 minutes, which was long enough to determine that it felt like riding on one of those plastic saddles on a BMX bike. I also felt like the rubber could have somehow been designed to be more forgiving - that was my personal hope anyways. It also seems incredibly expensive for a piece of rubber with some fabric glued on top. Oh well. KJ On Monday, August 11, 2014 3:43:44 PM UTC-4, David Banzer wrote: My LBS wonderfully let me borrow a Cambium tester saddle and I set out for a ride from Chicago to Waukegan to meet my girlfriend at a family event. I'll start by saying this... I really, really, really wanted to like the Cambium and already put aside money to buy one. My LBS (Comrade in Chicago) let me test out a Cambium before I decided. The saddle looks very nice and gives a more modern look over a classic leather saddle, and it also looked great on my Redwood with gray shellacked Newbaum's tape. It felt comfortable right away and coupled with the fact that I had already in my mind decided to buy a new one, pretty much had me sold... Until the ride continued and after mile 20 or so, it was not so comfortable at all and I kicked myself for not packing my broken-in B17 just in case. The Cambium felt narrow to me and felt too firm. I wish the rubber could've given more. I'm not too sure if these indeed do break-in a bit like leather, but I figured the saddle already had a buncha use and should've been broken-in already. All in all, it took me awhile to realize that the Cambium just isn't for me for long rides. I could see it being fine for an errand bike, but at its pricepoint, it doesn't make sense to me. Bummer. Guess I'll spend some money on something else. ... A few miles away from my destination I heard a distinct PING! I knew that sound - broken spoke. Oh well, I'll gingerly get it the last 5 miles and figure out what to do later. Until a mile later, another distinct PING! Two adjacent driveside spokes broken at the cross point. Time to call for help. Wheel was wobbling and locking up against brake pads that were already opened up. I examined the wheel and saw what looked like corrosion at the cross point on most driveside spokes. I was surprised as the spokes were stainless steel and I'd been riding this self built wheel for close to 5 years without any issue. Question then: Will stainless steel spokes corrode over time? Wheel obviously needs a complete rebuild. Got me thinking then about a 7-speed hub spaced at 135mm, which should have close to zero dish. This should be stronger then a 8/9/10 speed hub spaced at 130mm? The Redwood is 132.5 which'll take either 130 or 135. I've been using 8-speed 130mm. Any insights? Lastly, shameless plug... Have several bags (including ones on Redwood) for sale at treetop.bigcartel.com - contact offlist for a better price than listed there. Thanks, David Chicago -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Cambium Test. Stainless Steel Spoke Corrosion? 7-speed Hubs?
David, Totally off topic but could you patch two waxed canvas bags for me? I have the extra material but not the know how. Bummer about your ride. If you need a temporary rear wheel I have an atlas with a somewhat roached hub. FW, CBB -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Cambium Test. Stainless Steel Spoke Corrosion? 7-speed Hubs?
It also seems incredibly expensive for a piece of rubber with some fabric glued on top. Except that is not how it is made. The Fabric is infused into the rubber. Not an easy process and certainly not inexpensive. Especially so when compared to the cost of leather. There is so much tanned cow skin on the market, I would not be all surprised to learn Brooks cost for leather is substantially less than the infused rubber. As the Cambium saddle cage is a new and apparently more involved design than the leather line saddles all indications the Cambium is a deal. As for riding experience - I actually find I prefer the Cambium on my road bike (which I use regularly for 60 mile plus rises) than on my Commuter. Suggesting geometry and saddle position play a role in how the saddle is experienced. On Monday, August 11, 2014 3:23:49 PM UTC-5, Kieran J wrote: I had the same experience trying out a used Cambium. I rode it for about 20 minutes, which was long enough to determine that it felt like riding on one of those plastic saddles on a BMX bike. I also felt like the rubber could have somehow been designed to be more forgiving - that was my personal hope anyways. It also seems incredibly expensive for a piece of rubber with some fabric glued on top. Oh well. KJ On Monday, August 11, 2014 3:43:44 PM UTC-4, David Banzer wrote: My LBS wonderfully let me borrow a Cambium tester saddle and I set out for a ride from Chicago to Waukegan to meet my girlfriend at a family event. I'll start by saying this... I really, really, really wanted to like the Cambium and already put aside money to buy one. My LBS (Comrade in Chicago) let me test out a Cambium before I decided. The saddle looks very nice and gives a more modern look over a classic leather saddle, and it also looked great on my Redwood with gray shellacked Newbaum's tape. It felt comfortable right away and coupled with the fact that I had already in my mind decided to buy a new one, pretty much had me sold... Until the ride continued and after mile 20 or so, it was not so comfortable at all and I kicked myself for not packing my broken-in B17 just in case. The Cambium felt narrow to me and felt too firm. I wish the rubber could've given more. I'm not too sure if these indeed do break-in a bit like leather, but I figured the saddle already had a buncha use and should've been broken-in already. All in all, it took me awhile to realize that the Cambium just isn't for me for long rides. I could see it being fine for an errand bike, but at its pricepoint, it doesn't make sense to me. Bummer. Guess I'll spend some money on something else. ... A few miles away from my destination I heard a distinct PING! I knew that sound - broken spoke. Oh well, I'll gingerly get it the last 5 miles and figure out what to do later. Until a mile later, another distinct PING! Two adjacent driveside spokes broken at the cross point. Time to call for help. Wheel was wobbling and locking up against brake pads that were already opened up. I examined the wheel and saw what looked like corrosion at the cross point on most driveside spokes. I was surprised as the spokes were stainless steel and I'd been riding this self built wheel for close to 5 years without any issue. Question then: Will stainless steel spokes corrode over time? Wheel obviously needs a complete rebuild. Got me thinking then about a 7-speed hub spaced at 135mm, which should have close to zero dish. This should be stronger then a 8/9/10 speed hub spaced at 130mm? The Redwood is 132.5 which'll take either 130 or 135. I've been using 8-speed 130mm. Any insights? Lastly, shameless plug... Have several bags (including ones on Redwood) for sale at treetop.bigcartel.com - contact offlist for a better price than listed there. Thanks, David Chicago -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Cambium Test. Stainless Steel Spoke Corrosion? 7-speed Hubs?
Especially so when compared to the cost of leather. There is so much tanned cow skin on the market, I would not be all surprised to learn Brooks cost for leather is substantially less than the infused rubber. Agreed. There was a LONG discussion about the price of this saddle when it came out. I would think with Brooks' tooling and machinery in place, that a leather saddle would be less expensive for them to make than the Cambium. Matthew - I have the Cambium set up close to level with drop bars and positioned the actual saddle level. Any tips for a different angle? I still have the saddle and wouldn't mind messing with angles before I return it. All in all, it's narrower than I prefer. Doesn't really matter if it's vulcanized rubber or leather or the saddle is just too narrow for my tastes. I know there's investment in tooling and such, but I hope they launch new sizes. David Chicago -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Cambium Test. Stainless Steel Spoke Corrosion? 7-speed Hubs?
Well, whatever. I guess I meant that more anecdotally. There is something sinister about leather having a lower input cost than rubber, if that is indeed the case. KJ On Monday, August 11, 2014 5:40:41 PM UTC-4, Matthew J wrote: It also seems incredibly expensive for a piece of rubber with some fabric glued on top. Except that is not how it is made. The Fabric is infused into the rubber. Not an easy process and certainly not inexpensive. Especially so when compared to the cost of leather. There is so much tanned cow skin on the market, I would not be all surprised to learn Brooks cost for leather is substantially less than the infused rubber. As the Cambium saddle cage is a new and apparently more involved design than the leather line saddles all indications the Cambium is a deal. As for riding experience - I actually find I prefer the Cambium on my road bike (which I use regularly for 60 mile plus rises) than on my Commuter. Suggesting geometry and saddle position play a role in how the saddle is experienced. On Monday, August 11, 2014 3:23:49 PM UTC-5, Kieran J wrote: I had the same experience trying out a used Cambium. I rode it for about 20 minutes, which was long enough to determine that it felt like riding on one of those plastic saddles on a BMX bike. I also felt like the rubber could have somehow been designed to be more forgiving - that was my personal hope anyways. It also seems incredibly expensive for a piece of rubber with some fabric glued on top. Oh well. KJ On Monday, August 11, 2014 3:43:44 PM UTC-4, David Banzer wrote: My LBS wonderfully let me borrow a Cambium tester saddle and I set out for a ride from Chicago to Waukegan to meet my girlfriend at a family event. I'll start by saying this... I really, really, really wanted to like the Cambium and already put aside money to buy one. My LBS (Comrade in Chicago) let me test out a Cambium before I decided. The saddle looks very nice and gives a more modern look over a classic leather saddle, and it also looked great on my Redwood with gray shellacked Newbaum's tape. It felt comfortable right away and coupled with the fact that I had already in my mind decided to buy a new one, pretty much had me sold... Until the ride continued and after mile 20 or so, it was not so comfortable at all and I kicked myself for not packing my broken-in B17 just in case. The Cambium felt narrow to me and felt too firm. I wish the rubber could've given more. I'm not too sure if these indeed do break-in a bit like leather, but I figured the saddle already had a buncha use and should've been broken-in already. All in all, it took me awhile to realize that the Cambium just isn't for me for long rides. I could see it being fine for an errand bike, but at its pricepoint, it doesn't make sense to me. Bummer. Guess I'll spend some money on something else. ... A few miles away from my destination I heard a distinct PING! I knew that sound - broken spoke. Oh well, I'll gingerly get it the last 5 miles and figure out what to do later. Until a mile later, another distinct PING! Two adjacent driveside spokes broken at the cross point. Time to call for help. Wheel was wobbling and locking up against brake pads that were already opened up. I examined the wheel and saw what looked like corrosion at the cross point on most driveside spokes. I was surprised as the spokes were stainless steel and I'd been riding this self built wheel for close to 5 years without any issue. Question then: Will stainless steel spokes corrode over time? Wheel obviously needs a complete rebuild. Got me thinking then about a 7-speed hub spaced at 135mm, which should have close to zero dish. This should be stronger then a 8/9/10 speed hub spaced at 130mm? The Redwood is 132.5 which'll take either 130 or 135. I've been using 8-speed 130mm. Any insights? Lastly, shameless plug... Have several bags (including ones on Redwood) for sale at treetop.bigcartel.com - contact offlist for a better price than listed there. Thanks, David Chicago -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Cambium Test. Stainless Steel Spoke Corrosion? 7-speed Hubs?
To the op, I have a phil wood 7spd cassette hub with spacers to set it up 130 or 135mm, matching front hub as well, if your interested email me off line. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Cambium Test. Stainless Steel Spoke Corrosion? 7-speed Hubs?
My road bike is a custom with geometry similar to the Masis and DeRosas that were considered top of the line in the mid-1980s (wanna guess when I was a poor undergrad?). The drop bars and saddle height are even. No angle on the saddle at all (at least as well as I can tell). For the most part I ride with my back at about a 45 degree, my thumbs hooked around the hoods. The drop bars are old Riv Dream Bars - 42 mm. My city bike has Jitensha bars just a bit higher than the saddle. I ride with my back almost completely straight. Cambium is definitely too narrow for this set up. My hope is Brooks comes out with a wider Cambium - recently they launched a more narrow model. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Cambium Test. Stainless Steel Spoke Corrosion? 7-speed Hubs?
There is something sinister about leather having a lower input cost than rubber, if that is indeed the case. Oh I agree. In Brasil many beautiful stretches of forest where rubber trees grow naturally have been leveled for cow pasture and soy feed - much of which is used to feed cows. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Cambium Test. Stainless Steel Spoke Corrosion? 7-speed Hubs?
David: Should also say the seat post is a Paul Tall and Handsome which has modest set back. The saddle is almost smack dab in center of the post. On Monday, August 11, 2014 8:17:33 PM UTC-5, Matthew J wrote: My road bike is a custom with geometry similar to the Masis and DeRosas that were considered top of the line in the mid-1980s (wanna guess when I was a poor undergrad?). The drop bars and saddle height are even. No angle on the saddle at all (at least as well as I can tell). For the most part I ride with my back at about a 45 degree, my thumbs hooked around the hoods. The drop bars are old Riv Dream Bars - 42 mm. My city bike has Jitensha bars just a bit higher than the saddle. I ride with my back almost completely straight. Cambium is definitely too narrow for this set up. My hope is Brooks comes out with a wider Cambium - recently they launched a more narrow model. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Cambium Test. Stainless Steel Spoke Corrosion? 7-speed Hubs?
Thanks Matthew for the info. Confirms my suspicions that the C17 is not the saddle for me. Bummer. Glad I found that out with a test saddle. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Cambium Test. Stainless Steel Spoke Corrosion? 7-speed Hubs?
On Monday, August 11, 2014 12:43:44 PM UTC-7, David Banzer wrote: Question then: Will stainless steel spokes corrode over time? The short answer is yes, stainless steel will corrode given the appropriate environment. But we're talking about high concentrations of chloride and under acidic conditions. Do you see that under normal riding conditions? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Cambium Test. Stainless Steel Spoke Corrosion? 7-speed Hubs?
Nope! Any other reason for repeated spokes breaking at crossing point? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
