[RBW] Re: Choosing between Sam and Joe

[Joe Bernard]

That's a good point, John. I have big tires on my Appaloosa and the CX70s clear 
them easily with one end of the cable yoke unhooked. Also, to reiterate my 
earlier post, I can't recommend these brakes enough. Great modulation, great 
power, no squeals, they just work. The only drawback is my other bikes have 
v-brakes and now I'm annoyed with them ;-)

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[RBW] Re: Choosing between Sam and Joe

[Surlyprof]

Will suggested the CX70 to me once because I swap wheelsets often.  The CX70 
can be flipped pretty far out of the way so you can easily remove even fat 
tires.  That might be nice on the Joe since you can fit nice, wide wires.

Congrats on the new Joe A.  I'm sure you'll love it.

John

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[RBW] Re: Choosing between Sam and Joe

[Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles]

+1 on the mini motos limiting your max tire/fender capabilities.  Probably 
better off with something elsePaul Touring in silver?

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[RBW] Re: Choosing between Sam and Joe

[Joe Bernard]

I have CX70s on my blue Appaloosa. They work great and look good. 

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[RBW] Re: Choosing between Sam and Joe

[Ryan Fleming]

The Shimano CX-70's are excellent cantilever brakes...and though not silver 
are not unattractive...sort of a bluish gunmetal finish. If your Joe's 
blue, they  might  be a nice contrast. I'd go with the Riv recommendation 
there

On Wednesday, November 30, 2016 at 3:33:09 PM UTC-6, Ashwath Akirekadu 
wrote:
>
> Folks, much appreciate your opinions and sharing your experiences with 
> these bikes.   So I took them for a ride (51 Sam and 46 Joe).  Went there 
> thinking I'm bringing home a Sam frame.  After staring at the bikes for 
> some time,   I started liking the Orange better than Joe's blue :)  How 
> strange!  After the ride however, I ended up choosing Joe disregarding the 
> color.
>
> I like both these bikes better than any other thing I've ridden.  Given a 
> choice between something else and riding one of these bikes, I'll choose 
> the ride anytime of the day.  To me, the major factor in favor of Joe was 
> that it bounced much less as compared to Sam.  I'm thinking this is mostly 
> because on Joe you are sitting closer to the center .
>
> Initial plan was to have one bike that can do road and occasional trail. 
>  I'll use Joe for general riding and build a road bike in future when I 
> find a Rodeo/other nice light frame.
>
> So I'm back to the default state we all find ourselves in: I have all the 
> bikes I need minus one :)   
>
> Component recommendations for Joe are welcome.  First item: Is Paul Mini 
> Moto a good choice for this bike?  Folks at Riv HQ praised Shimano CX70, 
> however I'd like one in silver. 
>
> On Sunday, 27 November 2016 14:40:05 UTC-8, Ashwath Akirekadu wrote:
>>
>> Visited Rivendell HQ earlier this week.  It was really hard to squeeze 
>> time for it, but I thought I owed myself a ride on a real Riv before 
>> committing to San Marcos project.  It was a lovely experience.  Had planned 
>> on spending an hour.   Ended up spending more than 4 hours ;).   I was 
>> discussing Sam H vs San M with one of the associates.  At some point Grant 
>> yelled from his office "Sam is just better".Rode 51cm Sam for an hour. 
>>  In the end my feeling was that there just can't be a single way Marcos 
>> could possibly better.   
>>
>> I should have purchased a Sam frame and left.  I was curious about the 
>> Choco-Moose bar that was on a Jeo.  To try the handlebar I took Joe for a 
>> quick ride.  What a mistake :D   Joe was quite different and felt strangely 
>> pleasant.  
>>
>> It was getting late, so I left decision pending.
>>
>> The color might also have played a role why I didn't decide on Sam then 
>> and there.  While I loved Sam, I didn't like the new Orange color.I 
>> like the blue color of Joe.  Looking at Joe's geometry though, 46cm seems 
>> to be my size (PBH 81cm) which has 26" wheel.  Aesthetically I don't prefer 
>> wheels that small.  
>>
>> Here's my planned usage for the new bike: Ride to work once a week (46 
>> miles roundtrip).  Around the town, farmers market.  Weekend overnight 
>> camping rides 4-5 times a year.   Sometime in next 5 years I'm hoping to 
>> ride on Dalton Highway for a week to 10 days.
>>
>> Thoughts on which way I should go?  
>> Will 51cm Joe (which works with 650B) be too big for me?
>> If I want a blue Sam, how frequently such frames show up on the used 
>> market?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> PS: my posts making through moderator approval has been a hit or miss. 
>>  Really hoping this one gets a pass!
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Choosing between Sam and Joe

[Tim Gavin]

On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 3:33 PM, Ashwath Akirekadu 
wrote:

>
>
> Component recommendations for Joe are welcome.  First item: Is Paul Mini
> Moto a good choice for this bike?  Folks at Riv HQ praised Shimano CX70,
> however I'd like one in silver.
>

The Paul Mini Moto is a fantastic mini-V brake.  However, you could get 95%
of the same performance from just about any mini-V brake with Kool-stop
pads.  For example, the Tektro 926 and RX-5 brakes are a fraction of the
price of the Pauls.
But nothing beats a Paul brake for style.

Mini-V brakes were designed for cyclocross bikes, and therefore they work
with short-pull (road) brake levers, just like cantilevers, centerpulls,
and sidepulls.  However, Mini-V brakes have short arms which limit tire
clearance.  Their max tire is about a 38 mm.  If you want to run wider
tires (which the Joe Appaloosa is designed for), then Mini-Vs are not the
best choice.

That's why Riv sticks with cantilever brakes: they provide max tire
clearance but work with short-pull brake levers.


You could use full-size V-brakes if you use Travel Agent adapters.

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[RBW] Re: Choosing between Sam and Joe

[Les Lammers]

Congrats! The ride matters. As far as the build goes *I* would stick with 
old school parts for simplicity. The Mini Motos are as good as brakes get. 
I recently got a Chevoit and tried Choco norm bars but did not warm up to 
them. I am going to try SOMA Sparrow bars. Bars and saddles are personal 
things that you just have to experiment with. There are a lot of Riv bikes 
on Flickr. Browsing them may give you some ideas. Enjoy the new ride.

Here is a link to a cycling gearing calculator. Gearing calculator 
 


On Wednesday, November 30, 2016 at 4:33:09 PM UTC-5, Ashwath Akirekadu 
wrote:

> Folks, much appreciate your opinions and sharing your experiences with 
> these bikes.   So I took them for a ride (51 Sam and 46 Joe).  Went there 
> thinking I'm bringing home a Sam frame.  After staring at the bikes for 
> some time,   I started liking the Orange better than Joe's blue :)  How 
> strange!  After the ride however, I ended up choosing Joe disregarding the 
> color.
>
> I like both these bikes better than any other thing I've ridden.  Given a 
> choice between something else and riding one of these bikes, I'll choose 
> the ride anytime of the day.  To me, the major factor in favor of Joe was 
> that it bounced much less as compared to Sam.  I'm thinking this is mostly 
> because on Joe you are sitting closer to the center .
>
> Initial plan was to have one bike that can do road and occasional trail. 
>  I'll use Joe for general riding and build a road bike in future when I 
> find a Rodeo/other nice light frame.
>
> So I'm back to the default state we all find ourselves in: I have all the 
> bikes I need minus one :)   
>
> Component recommendations for Joe are welcome.  First item: Is Paul Mini 
> Moto a good choice for this bike?  Folks at Riv HQ praised Shimano CX70, 
> however I'd like one in silver. 
>
> On Sunday, 27 November 2016 14:40:05 UTC-8, Ashwath Akirekadu wrote:
>>
>> Visited Rivendell HQ earlier this week.  It was really hard to squeeze 
>> time for it, but I thought I owed myself a ride on a real Riv before 
>> committing to San Marcos project.  It was a lovely experience.  Had planned 
>> on spending an hour.   Ended up spending more than 4 hours ;).   I was 
>> discussing Sam H vs San M with one of the associates.  At some point Grant 
>> yelled from his office "Sam is just better".Rode 51cm Sam for an hour. 
>>  In the end my feeling was that there just can't be a single way Marcos 
>> could possibly better.   
>>
>> I should have purchased a Sam frame and left.  I was curious about the 
>> Choco-Moose bar that was on a Jeo.  To try the handlebar I took Joe for a 
>> quick ride.  What a mistake :D   Joe was quite different and felt strangely 
>> pleasant.  
>>
>> It was getting late, so I left decision pending.
>>
>> The color might also have played a role why I didn't decide on Sam then 
>> and there.  While I loved Sam, I didn't like the new Orange color.I 
>> like the blue color of Joe.  Looking at Joe's geometry though, 46cm seems 
>> to be my size (PBH 81cm) which has 26" wheel.  Aesthetically I don't prefer 
>> wheels that small.  
>>
>> Here's my planned usage for the new bike: Ride to work once a week (46 
>> miles roundtrip).  Around the town, farmers market.  Weekend overnight 
>> camping rides 4-5 times a year.   Sometime in next 5 years I'm hoping to 
>> ride on Dalton Highway for a week to 10 days.
>>
>> Thoughts on which way I should go?  
>> Will 51cm Joe (which works with 650B) be too big for me?
>> If I want a blue Sam, how frequently such frames show up on the used 
>> market?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> PS: my posts making through moderator approval has been a hit or miss. 
>>  Really hoping this one gets a pass!
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Choosing between Sam and Joe

[Ashwath Akirekadu]

BTW, I'll be using Campy short pull break levers.



On Wednesday, 30 November 2016 13:33:09 UTC-8, Ashwath Akirekadu wrote:
>
> Folks, much appreciate your opinions and sharing your experiences with 
> these bikes.   So I took them for a ride (51 Sam and 46 Joe).  Went there 
> thinking I'm bringing home a Sam frame.  After staring at the bikes for 
> some time,   I started liking the Orange better than Joe's blue :)  How 
> strange!  After the ride however, I ended up choosing Joe disregarding the 
> color.
>
> I like both these bikes better than any other thing I've ridden.  Given a 
> choice between something else and riding one of these bikes, I'll choose 
> the ride anytime of the day.  To me, the major factor in favor of Joe was 
> that it bounced much less as compared to Sam.  I'm thinking this is mostly 
> because on Joe you are sitting closer to the center .
>
> Initial plan was to have one bike that can do road and occasional trail. 
>  I'll use Joe for general riding and build a road bike in future when I 
> find a Rodeo/other nice light frame.
>
> So I'm back to the default state we all find ourselves in: I have all the 
> bikes I need minus one :)   
>
> Component recommendations for Joe are welcome.  First item: Is Paul Mini 
> Moto a good choice for this bike?  Folks at Riv HQ praised Shimano CX70, 
> however I'd like one in silver. 
>
> On Sunday, 27 November 2016 14:40:05 UTC-8, Ashwath Akirekadu wrote:
>>
>> Visited Rivendell HQ earlier this week.  It was really hard to squeeze 
>> time for it, but I thought I owed myself a ride on a real Riv before 
>> committing to San Marcos project.  It was a lovely experience.  Had planned 
>> on spending an hour.   Ended up spending more than 4 hours ;).   I was 
>> discussing Sam H vs San M with one of the associates.  At some point Grant 
>> yelled from his office "Sam is just better".Rode 51cm Sam for an hour. 
>>  In the end my feeling was that there just can't be a single way Marcos 
>> could possibly better.   
>>
>> I should have purchased a Sam frame and left.  I was curious about the 
>> Choco-Moose bar that was on a Jeo.  To try the handlebar I took Joe for a 
>> quick ride.  What a mistake :D   Joe was quite different and felt strangely 
>> pleasant.  
>>
>> It was getting late, so I left decision pending.
>>
>> The color might also have played a role why I didn't decide on Sam then 
>> and there.  While I loved Sam, I didn't like the new Orange color.I 
>> like the blue color of Joe.  Looking at Joe's geometry though, 46cm seems 
>> to be my size (PBH 81cm) which has 26" wheel.  Aesthetically I don't prefer 
>> wheels that small.  
>>
>> Here's my planned usage for the new bike: Ride to work once a week (46 
>> miles roundtrip).  Around the town, farmers market.  Weekend overnight 
>> camping rides 4-5 times a year.   Sometime in next 5 years I'm hoping to 
>> ride on Dalton Highway for a week to 10 days.
>>
>> Thoughts on which way I should go?  
>> Will 51cm Joe (which works with 650B) be too big for me?
>> If I want a blue Sam, how frequently such frames show up on the used 
>> market?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> PS: my posts making through moderator approval has been a hit or miss. 
>>  Really hoping this one gets a pass!
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Choosing between Sam and Joe

[Ashwath Akirekadu]

Folks, much appreciate your opinions and sharing your experiences with 
these bikes.   So I took them for a ride (51 Sam and 46 Joe).  Went there 
thinking I'm bringing home a Sam frame.  After staring at the bikes for 
some time,   I started liking the Orange better than Joe's blue :)  How 
strange!  After the ride however, I ended up choosing Joe disregarding the 
color.

I like both these bikes better than any other thing I've ridden.  Given a 
choice between something else and riding one of these bikes, I'll choose 
the ride anytime of the day.  To me, the major factor in favor of Joe was 
that it bounced much less as compared to Sam.  I'm thinking this is mostly 
because on Joe you are sitting closer to the center .

Initial plan was to have one bike that can do road and occasional trail. 
 I'll use Joe for general riding and build a road bike in future when I 
find a Rodeo/other nice light frame.

So I'm back to the default state we all find ourselves in: I have all the 
bikes I need minus one :)   

Component recommendations for Joe are welcome.  First item: Is Paul Mini 
Moto a good choice for this bike?  Folks at Riv HQ praised Shimano CX70, 
however I'd like one in silver. 

On Sunday, 27 November 2016 14:40:05 UTC-8, Ashwath Akirekadu wrote:
>
> Visited Rivendell HQ earlier this week.  It was really hard to squeeze 
> time for it, but I thought I owed myself a ride on a real Riv before 
> committing to San Marcos project.  It was a lovely experience.  Had planned 
> on spending an hour.   Ended up spending more than 4 hours ;).   I was 
> discussing Sam H vs San M with one of the associates.  At some point Grant 
> yelled from his office "Sam is just better".Rode 51cm Sam for an hour. 
>  In the end my feeling was that there just can't be a single way Marcos 
> could possibly better.   
>
> I should have purchased a Sam frame and left.  I was curious about the 
> Choco-Moose bar that was on a Jeo.  To try the handlebar I took Joe for a 
> quick ride.  What a mistake :D   Joe was quite different and felt strangely 
> pleasant.  
>
> It was getting late, so I left decision pending.
>
> The color might also have played a role why I didn't decide on Sam then 
> and there.  While I loved Sam, I didn't like the new Orange color.I 
> like the blue color of Joe.  Looking at Joe's geometry though, 46cm seems 
> to be my size (PBH 81cm) which has 26" wheel.  Aesthetically I don't prefer 
> wheels that small.  
>
> Here's my planned usage for the new bike: Ride to work once a week (46 
> miles roundtrip).  Around the town, farmers market.  Weekend overnight 
> camping rides 4-5 times a year.   Sometime in next 5 years I'm hoping to 
> ride on Dalton Highway for a week to 10 days.
>
> Thoughts on which way I should go?  
> Will 51cm Joe (which works with 650B) be too big for me?
> If I want a blue Sam, how frequently such frames show up on the used 
> market?
>
> Thanks!
>
> PS: my posts making through moderator approval has been a hit or miss. 
>  Really hoping this one gets a pass!
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Choosing between Sam and Joe

[Shoji Takahashi]

Hi Ashwath,
No, Compass's tire offerings do not have "flat protection". Compass uses 
"supple" casings for comfort, speed, handling. By using wider tires at 
lower pressures, flats are not as likely to occur. 

If you ride in goat head country, or places that are likely to have wires, 
nails, etc., that could penetrate the casing, then you might benefit from a 
different tire. I ride on city streets around Boston area with Compass 
tires. I have gotten the occasional flat, but that's a compromise that I'm 
willing to make for the ride quality of the tires. 

(By contrast, I dread putting on the winter studded tires that are slow, 
sluggish, and a lot of work to pedal against.)

RE: tire choice
There are many tire choices in different sizes. The question for you is 
whether the choices that exist are good for the riding you do (and want to 
do). Having more tire choices for riding conditions that you're not going 
to encounter doesn't offer real choice.

Good luck,
Shoji




On Wednesday, November 30, 2016 at 4:03:01 PM UTC-5, Ashwath Akirekadu 
wrote:
>
> Do these tires have some sort of flat protection?
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, 29 November 2016 07:51:06 UTC-8, Bob K. wrote:
>>
>> Alex Wrote:
>>
>> "Based on what you will do with it most often, Sam is king.  Throw on 
>> some Compass Baby Shoe tires and you're off to the races (It'll feel 
>> FAST!!)."
>>
>> I think you meant Barlow Pass, not Baby Shoe, but I don't blame you at 
>> all for getting the names confused. Happens to me almost every time someone 
>> writes the names of Compass tires. That said, I love the names and how they 
>> refer to specific passes, regardless of the potential (and my actual) 
>> confusion.
>>
>> And clearly you're right; the OP will love either bike as long as he 
>> chooses the one that feels best when he rides it. 
>>
>> Bob K. in Baltimore
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Choosing between Sam and Joe

[Ashwath Akirekadu]

Damn!  You were able to predict the outcome!

On Wednesday, 30 November 2016 03:34:05 UTC-8, Garth wrote:
>
>
> From what you expressed Ashwath, the Appaloosa being " strangely 
> pleasant", trust yourself.  Pleasant IS pleasant, and there is nothing 
> better than that. Isn't that what all effort is for, that sense of 
> pleasance ?
>
>
>
> On Sunday, November 27, 2016 at 5:40:05 PM UTC-5, Ashwath Akirekadu wrote:
>>
>> Visited Rivendell HQ earlier this week.  It was really hard to squeeze 
>> time for it, but I thought I owed myself a ride on a real Riv before 
>> committing to San Marcos project.  It was a lovely experience.  Had planned 
>> on spending an hour.   Ended up spending more than 4 hours ;).   I was 
>> discussing Sam H vs San M with one of the associates.  At some point Grant 
>> yelled from his office "Sam is just better".Rode 51cm Sam for an hour. 
>>  In the end my feeling was that there just can't be a single way Marcos 
>> could possibly better.   
>>
>> I should have purchased a Sam frame and left.  I was curious about the 
>> Choco-Moose bar that was on a Jeo.  To try the handlebar I took Joe for a 
>> quick ride.  What a mistake :D   Joe was quite different and felt strangely 
>> pleasant.  
>>
>> It was getting late, so I left decision pending.
>>
>> The color might also have played a role why I didn't decide on Sam then 
>> and there.  While I loved Sam, I didn't like the new Orange color.I 
>> like the blue color of Joe.  Looking at Joe's geometry though, 46cm seems 
>> to be my size (PBH 81cm) which has 26" wheel.  Aesthetically I don't prefer 
>> wheels that small.  
>>
>> Here's my planned usage for the new bike: Ride to work once a week (46 
>> miles roundtrip).  Around the town, farmers market.  Weekend overnight 
>> camping rides 4-5 times a year.   Sometime in next 5 years I'm hoping to 
>> ride on Dalton Highway for a week to 10 days.
>>
>> Thoughts on which way I should go?  
>> Will 51cm Joe (which works with 650B) be too big for me?
>> If I want a blue Sam, how frequently such frames show up on the used 
>> market?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> PS: my posts making through moderator approval has been a hit or miss. 
>>  Really hoping this one gets a pass!
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Choosing between Sam and Joe

[Ashwath Akirekadu]

Do these tires have some sort of flat protection?



On Tuesday, 29 November 2016 07:51:06 UTC-8, Bob K. wrote:
>
> Alex Wrote:
>
> "Based on what you will do with it most often, Sam is king.  Throw on some 
> Compass Baby Shoe tires and you're off to the races (It'll feel FAST!!)."
>
> I think you meant Barlow Pass, not Baby Shoe, but I don't blame you at all 
> for getting the names confused. Happens to me almost every time someone 
> writes the names of Compass tires. That said, I love the names and how they 
> refer to specific passes, regardless of the potential (and my actual) 
> confusion.
>
> And clearly you're right; the OP will love either bike as long as he 
> chooses the one that feels best when he rides it. 
>
> Bob K. in Baltimore
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Choosing between Sam and Joe

[Ashwath Akirekadu]

Good to know this option exists.  I might require it!



On Wednesday, 30 November 2016 01:51:59 UTC-8, BenG wrote:
>
> In 2013 I paid Riv to get my new Sam painted from forest green to metallic 
> pewter. Consider asking about a paint job to get the one you want as you 
> like it.

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[RBW] Re: Choosing between Sam and Joe

[Ashwath Akirekadu]

650B tire selection scene mildly worries me.  Agreed, there are more 
choices with 26".

Just that Appaloosa looked odd to me with 26.  Would have much preferred 
700c (I do understand why 650b is a better fit for my size)


On Monday, 28 November 2016 08:34:02 UTC-8, Chris Lampe 2 wrote:
>
> I don't have experience with either bike but I've spent several years 
> trying to figure out what I want in a bike and 26" wheels will offer many 
> more choices in tires than 650B, especially in the area of really fat 
> street tires.   That may not be a deciding factor for you but it's 
> something to consider.  
>
>
>
> On Sunday, November 27, 2016 at 4:40:05 PM UTC-6, Ashwath Akirekadu wrote:
>>
>> Visited Rivendell HQ earlier this week.  It was really hard to squeeze 
>> time for it, but I thought I owed myself a ride on a real Riv before 
>> committing to San Marcos project.  It was a lovely experience.  Had planned 
>> on spending an hour.   Ended up spending more than 4 hours ;).   I was 
>> discussing Sam H vs San M with one of the associates.  At some point Grant 
>> yelled from his office "Sam is just better".Rode 51cm Sam for an hour. 
>>  In the end my feeling was that there just can't be a single way Marcos 
>> could possibly better.   
>>
>> I should have purchased a Sam frame and left.  I was curious about the 
>> Choco-Moose bar that was on a Jeo.  To try the handlebar I took Joe for a 
>> quick ride.  What a mistake :D   Joe was quite different and felt strangely 
>> pleasant.  
>>
>> It was getting late, so I left decision pending.
>>
>> The color might also have played a role why I didn't decide on Sam then 
>> and there.  While I loved Sam, I didn't like the new Orange color.I 
>> like the blue color of Joe.  Looking at Joe's geometry though, 46cm seems 
>> to be my size (PBH 81cm) which has 26" wheel.  Aesthetically I don't prefer 
>> wheels that small.  
>>
>> Here's my planned usage for the new bike: Ride to work once a week (46 
>> miles roundtrip).  Around the town, farmers market.  Weekend overnight 
>> camping rides 4-5 times a year.   Sometime in next 5 years I'm hoping to 
>> ride on Dalton Highway for a week to 10 days.
>>
>> Thoughts on which way I should go?  
>> Will 51cm Joe (which works with 650B) be too big for me?
>> If I want a blue Sam, how frequently such frames show up on the used 
>> market?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> PS: my posts making through moderator approval has been a hit or miss. 
>>  Really hoping this one gets a pass!
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Choosing between Sam and Joe

[Garth]

>From what you expressed Ashwath, the Appaloosa being " strangely pleasant", 
trust yourself.  Pleasant IS pleasant, and there is nothing better than 
that. Isn't that what all effort is for, that sense of pleasance ?



On Sunday, November 27, 2016 at 5:40:05 PM UTC-5, Ashwath Akirekadu wrote:
>
> Visited Rivendell HQ earlier this week.  It was really hard to squeeze 
> time for it, but I thought I owed myself a ride on a real Riv before 
> committing to San Marcos project.  It was a lovely experience.  Had planned 
> on spending an hour.   Ended up spending more than 4 hours ;).   I was 
> discussing Sam H vs San M with one of the associates.  At some point Grant 
> yelled from his office "Sam is just better".Rode 51cm Sam for an hour. 
>  In the end my feeling was that there just can't be a single way Marcos 
> could possibly better.   
>
> I should have purchased a Sam frame and left.  I was curious about the 
> Choco-Moose bar that was on a Jeo.  To try the handlebar I took Joe for a 
> quick ride.  What a mistake :D   Joe was quite different and felt strangely 
> pleasant.  
>
> It was getting late, so I left decision pending.
>
> The color might also have played a role why I didn't decide on Sam then 
> and there.  While I loved Sam, I didn't like the new Orange color.I 
> like the blue color of Joe.  Looking at Joe's geometry though, 46cm seems 
> to be my size (PBH 81cm) which has 26" wheel.  Aesthetically I don't prefer 
> wheels that small.  
>
> Here's my planned usage for the new bike: Ride to work once a week (46 
> miles roundtrip).  Around the town, farmers market.  Weekend overnight 
> camping rides 4-5 times a year.   Sometime in next 5 years I'm hoping to 
> ride on Dalton Highway for a week to 10 days.
>
> Thoughts on which way I should go?  
> Will 51cm Joe (which works with 650B) be too big for me?
> If I want a blue Sam, how frequently such frames show up on the used 
> market?
>
> Thanks!
>
> PS: my posts making through moderator approval has been a hit or miss. 
>  Really hoping this one gets a pass!
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Choosing between Sam and Joe

[Les Lammers]

Could be the chainstay length. Joe's are longer. The rest of the frame 
geometry is similar to the Sam.

On Monday, November 28, 2016 at 1:34:57 PM UTC-5, Ashwath Akirekadu wrote:
>
> *Sam felt like a Honda Civic while Joe felt like Accord.*  This is how I 
> can best describe the difference.
>
> I'm planning to go back and ride them for an hour back to back.
>
> If Sam were available esp in sage, that would have been sufficient to 
> ignore finer details of the difference :)
>
>
> On Sunday, 27 November 2016 16:13:57 UTC-8, Evan E. wrote:
>>
>> I vote for Sam. It's a tad lighter, so its ride is apt to be a bit more 
>> spritely. And it's still stout enough for camping and for on-pavement 
>> touring. 
>>
>> By the way: When you say the Joe A. was "quite different," could you 
>> describe the difference?
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Choosing between Sam and Joe

[Les Lammers]

I have the Choco norm bars...O.K. but I ordered SOMA Sparrow bars. Going to 
try them flipped. Will post after they are installed. Also got German Ergon 
cork grips.

On Tuesday, November 29, 2016 at 9:42:34 AM UTC-5, Surlyprof wrote:
>
> You'll be able to get a great deal more upright with the Choconorm than 
> you will with the Albastache.  I had thought of getting the Choco Norm in 
> order to get the more upright position for city riding.  Two things stopped 
> me, (1) I like riding the front of the bar more often upright position so 
> that's where I want my brakes and (2) I prefer bar end shifters to thumbies 
> but don't like bar ends on bars that come back as far as the Choco Norm. 
>  If I could get over the second issue, I may consider the Choco Norm with 
> interrupters.  Maybe best of both worlds (although dropping my hands to the 
> front for quick braking situations has not been a problem).
>
> John
>
> On Monday, November 28, 2016 at 4:30:14 PM UTC-8, Ashwath Akirekadu wrote:
>>
>> Thanks!  That helps.  I had always wondered about these two.
>>
>> The Sam I test rode had Choco-NORM.  Which I liked a lot.  Albastache 
>> does seem more practical.I'm thinking it'd be much quicker to slide 
>> hands forward for urgent braking (while riding upright on Albastache) than 
>> having to pull back (while riding leaned forward on Choco-Norm).
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, 28 November 2016 16:02:38 UTC-8, Surlyprof wrote:
>>>
>>> Originally an Albatross but soon moved to an Albastache.  I found I was 
>>> spending most of my time in the front curves of the Albatross.  I like the 
>>> Albastache much better because it offers a little bit of upright position 
>>> as well as a more aggressive position in the curves.  Feels great.  Works 
>>> better with bar ends, too.  No knee shifting when turning.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Choosing between Sam and Joe

[BenG]

In 2013 I paid Riv to get my new Sam painted from forest green to metallic 
pewter. Consider asking about a paint job to get the one you want as you like 
it.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Choosing between Sam and Joe

[Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles]

Bob, 51 sams are 650b so baby shoe is king!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Choosing between Sam and Joe

[Robert Keal]

Gah! See? I did it again! Thanks, Alex!

Bob

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[RBW] Re: Choosing between Sam and Joe

[Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles]

Based on what you will do with it most often, Sam is king.  Throw on some 
Compass Baby Shoe tires and you're off to the races (It'll feel FAST!!).

It can handle those trails and a front-loaded week long trip with aplomb. 
 Having said all that, buy what feels best when you're actually 
riding...you can't really go wrong with either bike.

If you're bummed about color, check with the dealers to see if they have 
any Blue's in stockor buy a complete and make some changes (or ride it 
for a while and then decide).

On Sunday, November 27, 2016 at 5:40:05 PM UTC-5, Ashwath Akirekadu wrote:
>
> Visited Rivendell HQ earlier this week.  It was really hard to squeeze 
> time for it, but I thought I owed myself a ride on a real Riv before 
> committing to San Marcos project.  It was a lovely experience.  Had planned 
> on spending an hour.   Ended up spending more than 4 hours ;).   I was 
> discussing Sam H vs San M with one of the associates.  At some point Grant 
> yelled from his office "Sam is just better".Rode 51cm Sam for an hour. 
>  In the end my feeling was that there just can't be a single way Marcos 
> could possibly better.   
>
> I should have purchased a Sam frame and left.  I was curious about the 
> Choco-Moose bar that was on a Jeo.  To try the handlebar I took Joe for a 
> quick ride.  What a mistake :D   Joe was quite different and felt strangely 
> pleasant.  
>
> It was getting late, so I left decision pending.
>
> The color might also have played a role why I didn't decide on Sam then 
> and there.  While I loved Sam, I didn't like the new Orange color.I 
> like the blue color of Joe.  Looking at Joe's geometry though, 46cm seems 
> to be my size (PBH 81cm) which has 26" wheel.  Aesthetically I don't prefer 
> wheels that small.  
>
> Here's my planned usage for the new bike: Ride to work once a week (46 
> miles roundtrip).  Around the town, farmers market.  Weekend overnight 
> camping rides 4-5 times a year.   Sometime in next 5 years I'm hoping to 
> ride on Dalton Highway for a week to 10 days.
>
> Thoughts on which way I should go?  
> Will 51cm Joe (which works with 650B) be too big for me?
> If I want a blue Sam, how frequently such frames show up on the used 
> market?
>
> Thanks!
>
> PS: my posts making through moderator approval has been a hit or miss. 
>  Really hoping this one gets a pass!
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Choosing between Sam and Joe

[Robert Keal]

Alex Wrote:

"Based on what you will do with it most often, Sam is king.  Throw on some
Compass Baby Shoe tires and you're off to the races (It'll feel FAST!!)."

I think you meant Barlow Pass, not Baby Shoe, but I don't blame you at all
for getting the names confused. Happens to me almost every time someone
writes the names of Compass tires. That said, I love the names and how they
refer to specific passes, regardless of the potential (and my actual)
confusion.

And clearly you're right; the OP will love either bike as long as he
chooses the one that feels best when he rides it.

Bob K. in Baltimore

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[RBW] Re: Choosing between Sam and Joe

[Surlyprof]

I would ride the Sam on that trail with Smart Sams and no fenders to clog 
up with mud.  Joe with even fatter tires would probably be better on those 
trails.  Don't know how either would do trying to outrun bears.

John

On Monday, November 28, 2016 at 5:30:25 PM UTC-8, Bob K. wrote:
>
> Hi Ashwath,
>
> I've been eyeing that route with a buddy for this coming summer. It's "a 
> route designed to enjoy over an extra-long weekend on a gravel/adventure 
> bike with hearty 40mm tires or greater." I run 42mm tires on my Sam, and I 
> have a pair of Marathon 47s that fit without issue. I wouldn't hesitate to 
> take my Sam on that trip, although the few miles of single track just 
> wouldn't be as fun as they would be on my Krampus.
>
> In general, though, for your uses, either bike would be great. A Joe might 
> offer a bit more versatility, and I don't think you'd be giving up much to 
> the Sam for loaded road riding--perhaps a bit of nimbleness, but oh well. 
> And likewise, a Sam handles well on trails. I've done more than my fair 
> share of underbiking with mine, and smiles abound.
>
> Bob K. in Baltimore
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Choosing between Sam and Joe

[Surlyprof]

You'll be able to get a great deal more upright with the Choconorm than you 
will with the Albastache.  I had thought of getting the Choco Norm in order 
to get the more upright position for city riding.  Two things stopped me, 
(1) I like riding the front of the bar more often upright position so 
that's where I want my brakes and (2) I prefer bar end shifters to thumbies 
but don't like bar ends on bars that come back as far as the Choco Norm. 
 If I could get over the second issue, I may consider the Choco Norm with 
interrupters.  Maybe best of both worlds (although dropping my hands to the 
front for quick braking situations has not been a problem).

John

On Monday, November 28, 2016 at 4:30:14 PM UTC-8, Ashwath Akirekadu wrote:
>
> Thanks!  That helps.  I had always wondered about these two.
>
> The Sam I test rode had Choco-NORM.  Which I liked a lot.  Albastache does 
> seem more practical.I'm thinking it'd be much quicker to slide hands 
> forward for urgent braking (while riding upright on Albastache) than having 
> to pull back (while riding leaned forward on Choco-Norm).
>
>
>
> On Monday, 28 November 2016 16:02:38 UTC-8, Surlyprof wrote:
>>
>> Originally an Albatross but soon moved to an Albastache.  I found I was 
>> spending most of my time in the front curves of the Albatross.  I like the 
>> Albastache much better because it offers a little bit of upright position 
>> as well as a more aggressive position in the curves.  Feels great.  Works 
>> better with bar ends, too.  No knee shifting when turning.
>>
>> John
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Choosing between Sam and Joe

[Bill Lindsay]

That third photo with the deep glooshy mud looks pretty gross.  YUCK!  It 
gives me the willies just thinking about what rim-brakes would sound like 
after riding through that muck.  Gross!

On Monday, November 28, 2016 at 4:49:12 PM UTC-8, Ashwath Akirekadu wrote:
>
>
> Looking at the pictures on following links, I'm 'visually' concluding that 
> taking Sam on Dalton highway might be stretching its utility 
>
> http://salsacycles.com/culture/dalton_highway_dream
>
>
> http://bikehikesafari.com/2014/06/22/cycling-the-dalton-highway-to-deadhorse-prudhoe-bay-on-the-arctic-ocean/
>
> You folks agree?  
>
> When I think about guaranteed bear encounters, I feel fine skipping that 
> trip anyway ;)
>
> Here's a more likely ride I'm planning (Fall 2017)
>
> http://www.bikepacking.com/routes/green-mountain-gravel-growler/
>
> I'm 170lbs.  Is it possible to carry enough stuff for a week-long camping 
> ride on frequent gravel/occasional single track on Sam without damaging the 
> bike (also being able to safely ride it)?
>
> Attached are few pictures from the Vermont link.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sunday, 27 November 2016 14:40:05 UTC-8, Ashwath Akirekadu wrote:
>>
>> Visited Rivendell HQ earlier this week.  It was really hard to squeeze 
>> time for it, but I thought I owed myself a ride on a real Riv before 
>> committing to San Marcos project.  It was a lovely experience.  Had planned 
>> on spending an hour.   Ended up spending more than 4 hours ;).   I was 
>> discussing Sam H vs San M with one of the associates.  At some point Grant 
>> yelled from his office "Sam is just better".Rode 51cm Sam for an hour. 
>>  In the end my feeling was that there just can't be a single way Marcos 
>> could possibly better.   
>>
>> I should have purchased a Sam frame and left.  I was curious about the 
>> Choco-Moose bar that was on a Jeo.  To try the handlebar I took Joe for a 
>> quick ride.  What a mistake :D   Joe was quite different and felt strangely 
>> pleasant.  
>>
>> It was getting late, so I left decision pending.
>>
>> The color might also have played a role why I didn't decide on Sam then 
>> and there.  While I loved Sam, I didn't like the new Orange color.I 
>> like the blue color of Joe.  Looking at Joe's geometry though, 46cm seems 
>> to be my size (PBH 81cm) which has 26" wheel.  Aesthetically I don't prefer 
>> wheels that small.  
>>
>> Here's my planned usage for the new bike: Ride to work once a week (46 
>> miles roundtrip).  Around the town, farmers market.  Weekend overnight 
>> camping rides 4-5 times a year.   Sometime in next 5 years I'm hoping to 
>> ride on Dalton Highway for a week to 10 days.
>>
>> Thoughts on which way I should go?  
>> Will 51cm Joe (which works with 650B) be too big for me?
>> If I want a blue Sam, how frequently such frames show up on the used 
>> market?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> PS: my posts making through moderator approval has been a hit or miss. 
>>  Really hoping this one gets a pass!
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Choosing between Sam and Joe

[Bob K.]

Hi Ashwath,

I've been eyeing that route with a buddy for this coming summer. It's "a route 
designed to enjoy over an extra-long weekend on a gravel/adventure bike with 
hearty 40mm tires or greater." I run 42mm tires on my Sam, and I have a pair of 
Marathon 47s that fit without issue. I wouldn't hesitate to take my Sam on that 
trip, although the few miles of single track just wouldn't be as fun as they 
would be on my Krampus.

In general, though, for your uses, either bike would be great. A Joe might 
offer a bit more versatility, and I don't think you'd be giving up much to the 
Sam for loaded road riding--perhaps a bit of nimbleness, but oh well. And 
likewise, a Sam handles well on trails. I've done more than my fair share of 
underbiking with mine, and smiles abound.

Bob K. in Baltimore

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[RBW] Re: Choosing between Sam and Joe

[Ashwath Akirekadu]

Thanks!  That helps.  I had always wondered about these two.

The Sam I test rode had Choco-NORM.  Which I liked a lot.  Albastache does 
seem more practical.I'm thinking it'd be much quicker to slide hands 
forward for urgent braking (while riding upright on Albastache) than having 
to pull back (while riding leaned forward on Choco-Norm).



On Monday, 28 November 2016 16:02:38 UTC-8, Surlyprof wrote:
>
> Originally an Albatross but soon moved to an Albastache.  I found I was 
> spending most of my time in the front curves of the Albatross.  I like the 
> Albastache much better because it offers a little bit of upright position 
> as well as a more aggressive position in the curves.  Feels great.  Works 
> better with bar ends, too.  No knee shifting when turning.
>
> John
>

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[RBW] Re: Choosing between Sam and Joe

[Surlyprof]

Originally an Albatross but soon moved to an Albastache.  I found I was 
spending most of my time in the front curves of the Albatross.  I like the 
Albastache much better because it offers a little bit of upright position as 
well as a more aggressive position in the curves.  Feels great.  Works better 
with bar ends, too.  No knee shifting when turning.

John

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[RBW] Re: Choosing between Sam and Joe

[Joe Bernard]

Absolutely. I'm a sucker for good paint and graphics, and Joe Blue has it all. 
The little horseshoes on the downtube practically sold me the bike before I'd 
even ridden it ;-)

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[RBW] Re: Choosing between Sam and Joe

[Edwin W]

I think it is all about tire clearance. Want more? Joe Appaloosa. Ok with 
40mm (give or take, fenders or not), Sam could be your bike.

And of course color preference - you gotta have a color bike you like!

First Sam, now Appaloosa riding,

Edwin

On Sunday, November 27, 2016 at 4:40:05 PM UTC-6, Ashwath Akirekadu wrote:
>
> Visited Rivendell HQ earlier this week.  It was really hard to squeeze 
> time for it, but I thought I owed myself a ride on a real Riv before 
> committing to San Marcos project.  It was a lovely experience.  Had planned 
> on spending an hour.   Ended up spending more than 4 hours ;).   I was 
> discussing Sam H vs San M with one of the associates.  At some point Grant 
> yelled from his office "Sam is just better".Rode 51cm Sam for an hour. 
>  In the end my feeling was that there just can't be a single way Marcos 
> could possibly better.   
>
> I should have purchased a Sam frame and left.  I was curious about the 
> Choco-Moose bar that was on a Jeo.  To try the handlebar I took Joe for a 
> quick ride.  What a mistake :D   Joe was quite different and felt strangely 
> pleasant.  
>
> It was getting late, so I left decision pending.
>
> The color might also have played a role why I didn't decide on Sam then 
> and there.  While I loved Sam, I didn't like the new Orange color.I 
> like the blue color of Joe.  Looking at Joe's geometry though, 46cm seems 
> to be my size (PBH 81cm) which has 26" wheel.  Aesthetically I don't prefer 
> wheels that small.  
>
> Here's my planned usage for the new bike: Ride to work once a week (46 
> miles roundtrip).  Around the town, farmers market.  Weekend overnight 
> camping rides 4-5 times a year.   Sometime in next 5 years I'm hoping to 
> ride on Dalton Highway for a week to 10 days.
>
> Thoughts on which way I should go?  
> Will 51cm Joe (which works with 650B) be too big for me?
> If I want a blue Sam, how frequently such frames show up on the used 
> market?
>
> Thanks!
>
> PS: my posts making through moderator approval has been a hit or miss. 
>  Really hoping this one gets a pass!
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Choosing between Sam and Joe

[LeahFoy]

I vote for Joe Appaloosa because I like the name. You're welcome. 

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[RBW] Re: Choosing between Sam and Joe

[Ashwath Akirekadu]

John, What handlebar do you use for your mixed use?



On Sunday, 27 November 2016 18:25:10 UTC-8, Surlyprof wrote:
>
> I would lean toward the Sam only because you sound like you're planning 
> mostly road riding and only some trails.  I agree with Evan's assessment 
> that the Sam is a little more spritely due to the shorter wheelbase and 
> slightly lighter tubing (I think).  I've got a 56 canti-Sam (in the older, 
> brighter, metallic orange) and I ride it on my daily mixed terrain commute 
> loaded with all my books, teaching and office supplies and it handles it 
> like a champ.  On the weekends, I lose the load and put on a lighter 
> wheelset for road rides so I can enjoy that spritely feel.  I've also 
> ridden mountain trails with a set of 45cm Smart Sams (no fenders) which is 
> also fun.  I've only had one short Appaloosa test ride in the rain and it 
> did feel fantastic.  Smooth, stable and, dare I say, graceful.  I thought I 
> might want to buy the Joe and sell the Sam with the intent of riding more 
> trails with the capacity for fatter tires.  Decided to keep the Sam since I 
> ride roads a little more often than trails.  
>
> Good decision to have.  I'm confident you'll be thrilled with either since 
> you can't go wrong either way.
>
> John
>
> On Sunday, November 27, 2016 at 2:40:05 PM UTC-8, Ashwath Akirekadu wrote:
>>
>> Visited Rivendell HQ earlier this week.  It was really hard to squeeze 
>> time for it, but I thought I owed myself a ride on a real Riv before 
>> committing to San Marcos project.  It was a lovely experience.  Had planned 
>> on spending an hour.   Ended up spending more than 4 hours ;).   I was 
>> discussing Sam H vs San M with one of the associates.  At some point Grant 
>> yelled from his office "Sam is just better".Rode 51cm Sam for an hour. 
>>  In the end my feeling was that there just can't be a single way Marcos 
>> could possibly better.   
>>
>> I should have purchased a Sam frame and left.  I was curious about the 
>> Choco-Moose bar that was on a Jeo.  To try the handlebar I took Joe for a 
>> quick ride.  What a mistake :D   Joe was quite different and felt strangely 
>> pleasant.  
>>
>> It was getting late, so I left decision pending.
>>
>> The color might also have played a role why I didn't decide on Sam then 
>> and there.  While I loved Sam, I didn't like the new Orange color.I 
>> like the blue color of Joe.  Looking at Joe's geometry though, 46cm seems 
>> to be my size (PBH 81cm) which has 26" wheel.  Aesthetically I don't prefer 
>> wheels that small.  
>>
>> Here's my planned usage for the new bike: Ride to work once a week (46 
>> miles roundtrip).  Around the town, farmers market.  Weekend overnight 
>> camping rides 4-5 times a year.   Sometime in next 5 years I'm hoping to 
>> ride on Dalton Highway for a week to 10 days.
>>
>> Thoughts on which way I should go?  
>> Will 51cm Joe (which works with 650B) be too big for me?
>> If I want a blue Sam, how frequently such frames show up on the used 
>> market?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> PS: my posts making through moderator approval has been a hit or miss. 
>>  Really hoping this one gets a pass!
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Choosing between Sam and Joe

[Ashwath Akirekadu]

Sam felt like a Honda Civic while Joe felt like Accord.  This is how I can 
best describe the difference.

I'm planning to go back and ride them for an hour back to back.

If Sam were available esp in sage, that would have been sufficient to 
ignore finer details of the difference :)


On Sunday, 27 November 2016 16:13:57 UTC-8, Evan E. wrote:
>
> I vote for Sam. It's a tad lighter, so its ride is apt to be a bit more 
> spritely. And it's still stout enough for camping and for on-pavement 
> touring. 
>
> By the way: When you say the Joe A. was "quite different," could you 
> describe the difference?
>

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[RBW] Re: Choosing between Sam and Joe

['Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I don't have experience with either bike but I've spent several years 
trying to figure out what I want in a bike and 26" wheels will offer many 
more choices in tires than 650B, especially in the area of really fat 
street tires.   That may not be a deciding factor for you but it's 
something to consider.  



On Sunday, November 27, 2016 at 4:40:05 PM UTC-6, Ashwath Akirekadu wrote:
>
> Visited Rivendell HQ earlier this week.  It was really hard to squeeze 
> time for it, but I thought I owed myself a ride on a real Riv before 
> committing to San Marcos project.  It was a lovely experience.  Had planned 
> on spending an hour.   Ended up spending more than 4 hours ;).   I was 
> discussing Sam H vs San M with one of the associates.  At some point Grant 
> yelled from his office "Sam is just better".Rode 51cm Sam for an hour. 
>  In the end my feeling was that there just can't be a single way Marcos 
> could possibly better.   
>
> I should have purchased a Sam frame and left.  I was curious about the 
> Choco-Moose bar that was on a Jeo.  To try the handlebar I took Joe for a 
> quick ride.  What a mistake :D   Joe was quite different and felt strangely 
> pleasant.  
>
> It was getting late, so I left decision pending.
>
> The color might also have played a role why I didn't decide on Sam then 
> and there.  While I loved Sam, I didn't like the new Orange color.I 
> like the blue color of Joe.  Looking at Joe's geometry though, 46cm seems 
> to be my size (PBH 81cm) which has 26" wheel.  Aesthetically I don't prefer 
> wheels that small.  
>
> Here's my planned usage for the new bike: Ride to work once a week (46 
> miles roundtrip).  Around the town, farmers market.  Weekend overnight 
> camping rides 4-5 times a year.   Sometime in next 5 years I'm hoping to 
> ride on Dalton Highway for a week to 10 days.
>
> Thoughts on which way I should go?  
> Will 51cm Joe (which works with 650B) be too big for me?
> If I want a blue Sam, how frequently such frames show up on the used 
> market?
>
> Thanks!
>
> PS: my posts making through moderator approval has been a hit or miss. 
>  Really hoping this one gets a pass!
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Choosing between Sam and Joe

[Philip Kim]

I would lean towards the Sam and put Paul Racer brakes on it. Sam is still 
plenty stout for your intended uses you described. It's pretty versatile to 
be run with drop bars w/ short stem, or upright bars with a long stem.

for a joe, I would go with a 51 instead of a 46. my pbh is 78cm and the 51 
fits great.

On Sunday, November 27, 2016 at 5:40:05 PM UTC-5, Ashwath Akirekadu wrote:
>
> Visited Rivendell HQ earlier this week.  It was really hard to squeeze 
> time for it, but I thought I owed myself a ride on a real Riv before 
> committing to San Marcos project.  It was a lovely experience.  Had planned 
> on spending an hour.   Ended up spending more than 4 hours ;).   I was 
> discussing Sam H vs San M with one of the associates.  At some point Grant 
> yelled from his office "Sam is just better".Rode 51cm Sam for an hour. 
>  In the end my feeling was that there just can't be a single way Marcos 
> could possibly better.   
>
> I should have purchased a Sam frame and left.  I was curious about the 
> Choco-Moose bar that was on a Jeo.  To try the handlebar I took Joe for a 
> quick ride.  What a mistake :D   Joe was quite different and felt strangely 
> pleasant.  
>
> It was getting late, so I left decision pending.
>
> The color might also have played a role why I didn't decide on Sam then 
> and there.  While I loved Sam, I didn't like the new Orange color.I 
> like the blue color of Joe.  Looking at Joe's geometry though, 46cm seems 
> to be my size (PBH 81cm) which has 26" wheel.  Aesthetically I don't prefer 
> wheels that small.  
>
> Here's my planned usage for the new bike: Ride to work once a week (46 
> miles roundtrip).  Around the town, farmers market.  Weekend overnight 
> camping rides 4-5 times a year.   Sometime in next 5 years I'm hoping to 
> ride on Dalton Highway for a week to 10 days.
>
> Thoughts on which way I should go?  
> Will 51cm Joe (which works with 650B) be too big for me?
> If I want a blue Sam, how frequently such frames show up on the used 
> market?
>
> Thanks!
>
> PS: my posts making through moderator approval has been a hit or miss. 
>  Really hoping this one gets a pass!
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Choosing between Sam and Joe

[Les Lammers]

I agree with the others. Unless you will be off road a often or plan to 
carry a lot of weight the Sam will likely suit you better. From the JA 
description:* Our Joe Appaloosa is half-Sam Hillborne, half-Hunqapillar 
that’s bullseyed for loaded road touring. *It also has longer chainstays 
than the Sam and likely heavier tubing. Whichever you choose it will 
probably not be your last Riv. I bought a Bleriot, very similar to a Sam 
but 41mm or so is the max tire size, 9 years ago and recently got a 
Chevoit. They ride differently and are keepers.

On Sunday, November 27, 2016 at 5:40:05 PM UTC-5, Ashwath Akirekadu wrote:
>
> Visited Rivendell HQ earlier this week.  It was really hard to squeeze 
> time for it, but I thought I owed myself a ride on a real Riv before 
> committing to San Marcos project.  It was a lovely experience.  Had planned 
> on spending an hour.   Ended up spending more than 4 hours ;).   I was 
> discussing Sam H vs San M with one of the associates.  At some point Grant 
> yelled from his office "Sam is just better".Rode 51cm Sam for an hour. 
>  In the end my feeling was that there just can't be a single way Marcos 
> could possibly better.   
>
> I should have purchased a Sam frame and left.  I was curious about the 
> Choco-Moose bar that was on a Jeo.  To try the handlebar I took Joe for a 
> quick ride.  What a mistake :D   Joe was quite different and felt strangely 
> pleasant.  
>
> It was getting late, so I left decision pending.
>
> The color might also have played a role why I didn't decide on Sam then 
> and there.  While I loved Sam, I didn't like the new Orange color.I 
> like the blue color of Joe.  Looking at Joe's geometry though, 46cm seems 
> to be my size (PBH 81cm) which has 26" wheel.  Aesthetically I don't prefer 
> wheels that small.  
>
> Here's my planned usage for the new bike: Ride to work once a week (46 
> miles roundtrip).  Around the town, farmers market.  Weekend overnight 
> camping rides 4-5 times a year.   Sometime in next 5 years I'm hoping to 
> ride on Dalton Highway for a week to 10 days.
>
> Thoughts on which way I should go?  
> Will 51cm Joe (which works with 650B) be too big for me?
> If I want a blue Sam, how frequently such frames show up on the used 
> market?
>
> Thanks!
>
> PS: my posts making through moderator approval has been a hit or miss. 
>  Really hoping this one gets a pass!
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Choosing between Sam and Joe

[Surlyprof]

I would lean toward the Sam only because you sound like you're planning 
mostly road riding and only some trails.  I agree with Evan's assessment 
that the Sam is a little more spritely due to the shorter wheelbase and 
slightly lighter tubing (I think).  I've got a 56 canti-Sam (in the older, 
brighter, metallic orange) and I ride it on my daily mixed terrain commute 
loaded with all my books, teaching and office supplies and it handles it 
like a champ.  On the weekends, I lose the load and put on a lighter 
wheelset for road rides so I can enjoy that spritely feel.  I've also 
ridden mountain trails with a set of 45cm Smart Sams (no fenders) which is 
also fun.  I've only had one short Appaloosa test ride in the rain and it 
did feel fantastic.  Smooth, stable and, dare I say, graceful.  I thought I 
might want to buy the Joe and sell the Sam with the intent of riding more 
trails with the capacity for fatter tires.  Decided to keep the Sam since I 
ride roads a little more often than trails.  

Good decision to have.  I'm confident you'll be thrilled with either since 
you can't go wrong either way.

John

On Sunday, November 27, 2016 at 2:40:05 PM UTC-8, Ashwath Akirekadu wrote:
>
> Visited Rivendell HQ earlier this week.  It was really hard to squeeze 
> time for it, but I thought I owed myself a ride on a real Riv before 
> committing to San Marcos project.  It was a lovely experience.  Had planned 
> on spending an hour.   Ended up spending more than 4 hours ;).   I was 
> discussing Sam H vs San M with one of the associates.  At some point Grant 
> yelled from his office "Sam is just better".Rode 51cm Sam for an hour. 
>  In the end my feeling was that there just can't be a single way Marcos 
> could possibly better.   
>
> I should have purchased a Sam frame and left.  I was curious about the 
> Choco-Moose bar that was on a Jeo.  To try the handlebar I took Joe for a 
> quick ride.  What a mistake :D   Joe was quite different and felt strangely 
> pleasant.  
>
> It was getting late, so I left decision pending.
>
> The color might also have played a role why I didn't decide on Sam then 
> and there.  While I loved Sam, I didn't like the new Orange color.I 
> like the blue color of Joe.  Looking at Joe's geometry though, 46cm seems 
> to be my size (PBH 81cm) which has 26" wheel.  Aesthetically I don't prefer 
> wheels that small.  
>
> Here's my planned usage for the new bike: Ride to work once a week (46 
> miles roundtrip).  Around the town, farmers market.  Weekend overnight 
> camping rides 4-5 times a year.   Sometime in next 5 years I'm hoping to 
> ride on Dalton Highway for a week to 10 days.
>
> Thoughts on which way I should go?  
> Will 51cm Joe (which works with 650B) be too big for me?
> If I want a blue Sam, how frequently such frames show up on the used 
> market?
>
> Thanks!
>
> PS: my posts making through moderator approval has been a hit or miss. 
>  Really hoping this one gets a pass!
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Choosing between Sam and Joe

[Evan E.]

I vote for Sam. It's a tad lighter, so its ride is apt to be a bit more 
spritely. And it's still stout enough for camping and for on-pavement 
touring. 

By the way: When you say the Joe A. was "quite different," could you 
describe the difference?

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