[RBW] Re: Double 1x

[Joe Bernard]

I should add - I didn't realize my aside about it needing a little work 
would be so noticeable - that my front shifting works good enough most of 
the time now. My intent was to show how a narrow range double could work 
with one of those huge cassettes people use for 1x's. 

On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 11:31:52 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> That may be the next move but I suspect it's a spindle length issue. This 
> FD was designed to run with an MTB double with a wide Q and 10-spd 
> chainrings closer together, it's not quite snapping over hard enough to the 
> small ring before running out of travel (limit screw all the way out). I 
> don't want to put in a longer bottom bracket so I may need to pick up an 
> older FD like Riv used to put on most of their bikes.*
>
> *This is the part of the story where I remember why I gave up front 
> derailers. 
>
> On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 11:17:01 PM UTC-7 Hetchins52 wrote:
>
>> Looks like you can lower the new derailleur a tad. Have you tried that 
>> and run into interference?
>>
>> David Lipsky
>> Berkeley, CA
>> On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 10:04:45 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> I had a nice 1x and wanted slightly lower gears for some crazy hills 
>>> around here, but didn't want to lose the already relatively low top end so 
>>> mashed some parts together and this is the result. 
>>>
>>> Starting point: SRAM Rival 1 (with clutch) rear derailer, I believe the 
>>> largest cog this is supposed to handle is 42t. I added a Garbaruk cage and 
>>> pulleys and it shifts a SunRace 11-50 11-spd cassette with a SRAM Apex 
>>> trigger shifter. The front is a Sugino XD crank with 34t chainring. 
>>>
>>> Ok what happens if I want double rings? The manufacturer stuff says I 
>>> can't use a 1x derailer (I don't know why) so I thought I would cheat a 
>>> little and make it kind of two 1x's by adding a 30t inner ring, Shimano 
>>> Deore (DynaSys 10-spd double) FD and a Silver2 thumbshifter on the stem. It 
>>> works! 
>>>
>>> Ok it doesn't work completely fabulously yet, the downshift to the small 
>>> ring doesn't always take and I still have some fiddling to do but overall 
>>> the bike works well for me using all of the gears in the 30t plus grabbing 
>>> the top 2 or 3 in the 34t on occasion, and sometimes just staying in the 
>>> 34t like before. It's not a massive increase in gear range, I think of it 
>>> as an expanded 1x. 
>>>
>>> Does it make sense? I don't know, maybe this can be duplicated by ye old 
>>> triple drivetrains with 11-36 cassettes but I don't like triples. I like 
>>> this! 
>>>
>>> Joe "tried to ditch front derailers, ended up with a front derailer 
>>> again" Bernard
>>>
>>> [image: Screenshot_20230429_211431.jpg][image: 
>>> Screenshot_20230429_211411.jpg]
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Double 1x

[Eric Daume]

CUES has a 2x option.

Eric
who doesn't miss the front derailleur at all

On Sun, Apr 30, 2023 at 8:22 AM ascpgh  wrote:

> Somewhere in the last two days I read something roughly this: "I tried to
> ditch front derailleurs on my road bike but they just work so well."
> Perhaps from one of the bike topic digest emails I get daily but oh so
> true. I solved my FD needs on my newest 2x bike with an NOS SunTour Superbe
> Pro from the mid '80s. Fit and worked better than all of the current FDs
> from three makers.
>
> When I see the size of those cassettes and necessity for expensive
> materials to keep their weight appropriate, RDs requiring clutches and
> reduced compatibility of shifters, it rekindles the thought that my 2x road
> drivetrains are pretty good. They are simple, elegant and yet
> sophisticated, durable and light. Above all I am not perplexed by their
> operation, adjustment or maintenance. i'm not going change what works for
> me, the struggle to reach that point had many lessons both near and far
> from home or a sag call.
>
> What seems simple (1x) sometimes comes with great complexity once details
> start being ironed out. I'm not a fan of the complete component group
> drivetrain sales to volume manufacturers targeting new or newer cyclists
> being the driving standard. They are telling the experienced cyclist that
> they don't matter to them.
>
> Shimano sales were down 17% in 2022, forecast to be down 22% in 2023.
> How's that model working out for them? CUES is their response. Hope they
> start considering the dedicated,, experienced cyclists a bit more.
>
> Andy Cheatham
> Pittsburgh
>
>
>
>
> On Sunday, April 30, 2023 at 1:04:45 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> I had a nice 1x and wanted slightly lower gears for some crazy hills
>> around here, but didn't want to lose the already relatively low top end so
>> mashed some parts together and this is the result.
>>
>> Starting point: SRAM Rival 1 (with clutch) rear derailer, I believe the
>> largest cog this is supposed to handle is 42t. I added a Garbaruk cage and
>> pulleys and it shifts a SunRace 11-50 11-spd cassette with a SRAM Apex
>> trigger shifter. The front is a Sugino XD crank with 34t chainring.
>>
>> Ok what happens if I want double rings? The manufacturer stuff says I
>> can't use a 1x derailer (I don't know why) so I thought I would cheat a
>> little and make it kind of two 1x's by adding a 30t inner ring, Shimano
>> Deore (DynaSys 10-spd double) FD and a Silver2 thumbshifter on the stem. It
>> works!
>>
>> Ok it doesn't work completely fabulously yet, the downshift to the small
>> ring doesn't always take and I still have some fiddling to do but overall
>> the bike works well for me using all of the gears in the 30t plus grabbing
>> the top 2 or 3 in the 34t on occasion, and sometimes just staying in the
>> 34t like before. It's not a massive increase in gear range, I think of it
>> as an expanded 1x.
>>
>> Does it make sense? I don't know, maybe this can be duplicated by ye old
>> triple drivetrains with 11-36 cassettes but I don't like triples. I like
>> this!
>>
>> Joe "tried to ditch front derailers, ended up with a front derailer
>> again" Bernard
>>
>> [image: Screenshot_20230429_211431.jpg][image:
>> Screenshot_20230429_211411.jpg]
>>
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> 
> .
>

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[RBW] Re: Double 1x

[ascpgh]

Somewhere in the last two days I read something roughly this: "I tried to 
ditch front derailleurs on my road bike but they just work so well." 
Perhaps from one of the bike topic digest emails I get daily but oh so 
true. I solved my FD needs on my newest 2x bike with an NOS SunTour Superbe 
Pro from the mid '80s. Fit and worked better than all of the current FDs 
from three makers. 

When I see the size of those cassettes and necessity for expensive 
materials to keep their weight appropriate, RDs requiring clutches and 
reduced compatibility of shifters, it rekindles the thought that my 2x road 
drivetrains are pretty good. They are simple, elegant and yet 
sophisticated, durable and light. Above all I am not perplexed by their 
operation, adjustment or maintenance. i'm not going change what works for 
me, the struggle to reach that point had many lessons both near and far 
from home or a sag call.

What seems simple (1x) sometimes comes with great complexity once details 
start being ironed out. I'm not a fan of the complete component group 
drivetrain sales to volume manufacturers targeting new or newer cyclists 
being the driving standard. They are telling the experienced cyclist that 
they don't matter to them.

Shimano sales were down 17% in 2022, forecast to be down 22% in 2023. How's 
that model working out for them? CUES is their response. Hope they start 
considering the dedicated,, experienced cyclists a bit more.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh




On Sunday, April 30, 2023 at 1:04:45 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I had a nice 1x and wanted slightly lower gears for some crazy hills 
> around here, but didn't want to lose the already relatively low top end so 
> mashed some parts together and this is the result. 
>
> Starting point: SRAM Rival 1 (with clutch) rear derailer, I believe the 
> largest cog this is supposed to handle is 42t. I added a Garbaruk cage and 
> pulleys and it shifts a SunRace 11-50 11-spd cassette with a SRAM Apex 
> trigger shifter. The front is a Sugino XD crank with 34t chainring. 
>
> Ok what happens if I want double rings? The manufacturer stuff says I 
> can't use a 1x derailer (I don't know why) so I thought I would cheat a 
> little and make it kind of two 1x's by adding a 30t inner ring, Shimano 
> Deore (DynaSys 10-spd double) FD and a Silver2 thumbshifter on the stem. It 
> works! 
>
> Ok it doesn't work completely fabulously yet, the downshift to the small 
> ring doesn't always take and I still have some fiddling to do but overall 
> the bike works well for me using all of the gears in the 30t plus grabbing 
> the top 2 or 3 in the 34t on occasion, and sometimes just staying in the 
> 34t like before. It's not a massive increase in gear range, I think of it 
> as an expanded 1x. 
>
> Does it make sense? I don't know, maybe this can be duplicated by ye old 
> triple drivetrains with 11-36 cassettes but I don't like triples. I like 
> this! 
>
> Joe "tried to ditch front derailers, ended up with a front derailer again" 
> Bernard
>
> [image: Screenshot_20230429_211431.jpg][image: 
> Screenshot_20230429_211411.jpg]
>

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[RBW] Re: Double 1x

[Joe Bernard]

That may be the next move but I suspect it's a spindle length issue. This 
FD was designed to run with an MTB double with a wide Q and 10-spd 
chainrings closer together, it's not quite snapping over hard enough to the 
small ring before running out of travel (limit screw all the way out). I 
don't want to put in a longer bottom bracket so I may need to pick up an 
older FD like Riv used to put on most of their bikes.*

*This is the part of the story where I remember why I gave up front 
derailers. 

On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 11:17:01 PM UTC-7 Hetchins52 wrote:

> Looks like you can lower the new derailleur a tad. Have you tried that and 
> run into interference?
>
> David Lipsky
> Berkeley, CA
> On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 10:04:45 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> I had a nice 1x and wanted slightly lower gears for some crazy hills 
>> around here, but didn't want to lose the already relatively low top end so 
>> mashed some parts together and this is the result. 
>>
>> Starting point: SRAM Rival 1 (with clutch) rear derailer, I believe the 
>> largest cog this is supposed to handle is 42t. I added a Garbaruk cage and 
>> pulleys and it shifts a SunRace 11-50 11-spd cassette with a SRAM Apex 
>> trigger shifter. The front is a Sugino XD crank with 34t chainring. 
>>
>> Ok what happens if I want double rings? The manufacturer stuff says I 
>> can't use a 1x derailer (I don't know why) so I thought I would cheat a 
>> little and make it kind of two 1x's by adding a 30t inner ring, Shimano 
>> Deore (DynaSys 10-spd double) FD and a Silver2 thumbshifter on the stem. It 
>> works! 
>>
>> Ok it doesn't work completely fabulously yet, the downshift to the small 
>> ring doesn't always take and I still have some fiddling to do but overall 
>> the bike works well for me using all of the gears in the 30t plus grabbing 
>> the top 2 or 3 in the 34t on occasion, and sometimes just staying in the 
>> 34t like before. It's not a massive increase in gear range, I think of it 
>> as an expanded 1x. 
>>
>> Does it make sense? I don't know, maybe this can be duplicated by ye old 
>> triple drivetrains with 11-36 cassettes but I don't like triples. I like 
>> this! 
>>
>> Joe "tried to ditch front derailers, ended up with a front derailer 
>> again" Bernard
>>
>> [image: Screenshot_20230429_211431.jpg][image: 
>> Screenshot_20230429_211411.jpg]
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Double 1x

['Hetchins52' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Looks like you can lower the new derailleur a tad. Have you tried that and 
run into interference?

David Lipsky
Berkeley, CA
On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 10:04:45 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I had a nice 1x and wanted slightly lower gears for some crazy hills 
> around here, but didn't want to lose the already relatively low top end so 
> mashed some parts together and this is the result. 
>
> Starting point: SRAM Rival 1 (with clutch) rear derailer, I believe the 
> largest cog this is supposed to handle is 42t. I added a Garbaruk cage and 
> pulleys and it shifts a SunRace 11-50 11-spd cassette with a SRAM Apex 
> trigger shifter. The front is a Sugino XD crank with 34t chainring. 
>
> Ok what happens if I want double rings? The manufacturer stuff says I 
> can't use a 1x derailer (I don't know why) so I thought I would cheat a 
> little and make it kind of two 1x's by adding a 30t inner ring, Shimano 
> Deore (DynaSys 10-spd double) FD and a Silver2 thumbshifter on the stem. It 
> works! 
>
> Ok it doesn't work completely fabulously yet, the downshift to the small 
> ring doesn't always take and I still have some fiddling to do but overall 
> the bike works well for me using all of the gears in the 30t plus grabbing 
> the top 2 or 3 in the 34t on occasion, and sometimes just staying in the 
> 34t like before. It's not a massive increase in gear range, I think of it 
> as an expanded 1x. 
>
> Does it make sense? I don't know, maybe this can be duplicated by ye old 
> triple drivetrains with 11-36 cassettes but I don't like triples. I like 
> this! 
>
> Joe "tried to ditch front derailers, ended up with a front derailer again" 
> Bernard
>
> [image: Screenshot_20230429_211431.jpg][image: 
> Screenshot_20230429_211411.jpg]
>

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