Re: [RBW] Re: Heck, even my Monocog is lighter than your Platypus. [Monocog with Specialized Hover bar]

[Garth]

Ahahahahahaahahahahahaahaha   !!!  

Very good Leah :-) 





On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 4:36:11 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

It’s about to get sillier. I made a video in response to Patrick’s thread. 
I’m attaching it as a link here, since it’s too big to include in the text. 
I changed my Instagram to public for this, but I’ll switch it back to 
private soon, so watch it before I do!

I’m on a roll over there with taking classic, classy Rivendells and putting 
them to tacky hit music. 5 years ago you long-time Riv fans would have 
thrown me out of here, but I think I’ve worn you down enough that you will 
find this palatable. Or not!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Heck, even my Monocog is lighter than your Platypus. [Monocog with Specialized Hover bar]

[Steve]

Dingding - I LOVE it !!!Might just be one of the best bicycle videos 
I've yet to see on the internet. Great soundtrack too!
Thanks for sharing. (Please invite me to your Webby Awards "Best Video 
award" party)

On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 4:36:11 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> It’s about to get sillier. I made a video in response to Patrick’s thread. 
> I’m attaching it as a link here, since it’s too big to include in the text. 
> I changed my Instagram to public for this, but I’ll switch it back to 
> private soon, so watch it before I do!
>
> I’m on a roll over there with taking classic, classy Rivendells and 
> putting them to tacky hit music. 5 years ago you long-time Riv fans would 
> have thrown me out of here, but I think I’ve worn you down enough that you 
> will find this palatable. Or not!
>
> https://www.instagram.com/reel/CrohxSlgzAY/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
> On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 3:24:54 PM UTC-4 steve...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> "My bike is lighter than a bike that's heavier than my bike but heavier 
>> than a bike that's lighter than my bike. True story. "
>>
>> Now Joe, that's just silly. Come to think of it, this whole thread is 
>> just silly - which is probably why I keep following it ; )
>>
>> On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 11:30:26 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> My bike is lighter than a bike that's heavier than my bike but heavier 
>>> than a bike that's lighter than my bike. True story. 
>>>
>>> On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 5:43:55 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 https://youtu.be/R3Uf4OKYqzs

 The narrator is Phil Ligget's brother.

 On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 6:37 PM Patrick Moore  
 wrote:

> Now that's interesting. Watch even older videos of Coppi and Bartalli 
> on climbs and on the flats; 50 rpm standing in a 62" gear, and -- Coppi 
> -- 
> 120 rpm bursts in a 93" high alternating with coasting on the flats (48 X 
> 14-21 4 speed); much as I used to ride (we pros share a great deal) with 
> the difference that (this was 30 years ago) my flatland cruising was 
> about 
> 64" at 108+ rpm for 20+ mph. No longer! 90 in a 76" gear is high. Funny, 
> it 
> was riding fixed that transformed me from a twiddler to a masher; true.
>
> On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 6:11 PM Garth  wrote:
>
>> ... As I've watched pro road cycling since the 70/80's, this is how 
>> everyone rode. Slow rpm in big gears uphill and huge gears spinning high 
>> rpm with great supple' going downhill and on the flats. Watch Greg 
>> Lemond 
>> in the 80's in race videos, he was fluid from the very low to very high 
>> rpm. To be a pro you pretty much had to be able to do that. That started 
>> to 
>> change in the early 90's, where higher uphill rpm were beginning to 
>> happen, 
>> but that time frame coincided with the introduction of the drug EPO, 
>> which 
>> basically gave riders more oxygen in the blood so they could push those 
>> higher rpm without running out of oxygen. That's how the story goes as I 
>> understood it at least. Even still,  you see riders ride in every 
>> conceivable way and so one must caution against implying "everyone does 
>> this or that" because everyone is unique in their own way. 
>>
>

 -- 

 ---
 Patrick Moore
 Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum



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Re: [RBW] Re: Heck, even my Monocog is lighter than your Platypus. [Monocog with Specialized Hover bar]

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

It’s about to get sillier. I made a video in response to Patrick’s thread. 
I’m attaching it as a link here, since it’s too big to include in the text. 
I changed my Instagram to public for this, but I’ll switch it back to 
private soon, so watch it before I do!

I’m on a roll over there with taking classic, classy Rivendells and putting 
them to tacky hit music. 5 years ago you long-time Riv fans would have 
thrown me out of here, but I think I’ve worn you down enough that you will 
find this palatable. Or not!

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CrohxSlgzAY/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
On Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 3:24:54 PM UTC-4 steve...@gmail.com wrote:

> "My bike is lighter than a bike that's heavier than my bike but heavier 
> than a bike that's lighter than my bike. True story. "
>
> Now Joe, that's just silly. Come to think of it, this whole thread is just 
> silly - which is probably why I keep following it ; )
>
> On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 11:30:26 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> My bike is lighter than a bike that's heavier than my bike but heavier 
>> than a bike that's lighter than my bike. True story. 
>>
>> On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 5:43:55 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> https://youtu.be/R3Uf4OKYqzs
>>>
>>> The narrator is Phil Ligget's brother.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 6:37 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>>
 Now that's interesting. Watch even older videos of Coppi and Bartalli 
 on climbs and on the flats; 50 rpm standing in a 62" gear, and -- Coppi -- 
 120 rpm bursts in a 93" high alternating with coasting on the flats (48 X 
 14-21 4 speed); much as I used to ride (we pros share a great deal) with 
 the difference that (this was 30 years ago) my flatland cruising was about 
 64" at 108+ rpm for 20+ mph. No longer! 90 in a 76" gear is high. Funny, 
 it 
 was riding fixed that transformed me from a twiddler to a masher; true.

 On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 6:11 PM Garth  wrote:

> ... As I've watched pro road cycling since the 70/80's, this is how 
> everyone rode. Slow rpm in big gears uphill and huge gears spinning high 
> rpm with great supple' going downhill and on the flats. Watch Greg Lemond 
> in the 80's in race videos, he was fluid from the very low to very high 
> rpm. To be a pro you pretty much had to be able to do that. That started 
> to 
> change in the early 90's, where higher uphill rpm were beginning to 
> happen, 
> but that time frame coincided with the introduction of the drug EPO, 
> which 
> basically gave riders more oxygen in the blood so they could push those 
> higher rpm without running out of oxygen. That's how the story goes as I 
> understood it at least. Even still,  you see riders ride in every 
> conceivable way and so one must caution against implying "everyone does 
> this or that" because everyone is unique in their own way. 
>

>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Patrick Moore
>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Heck, even my Monocog is lighter than your Platypus. [Monocog with Specialized Hover bar]

[Steve]

"My bike is lighter than a bike that's heavier than my bike but heavier 
than a bike that's lighter than my bike. True story. "

Now Joe, that's just silly. Come to think of it, this whole thread is just 
silly - which is probably why I keep following it ; )

On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 11:30:26 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> My bike is lighter than a bike that's heavier than my bike but heavier 
> than a bike that's lighter than my bike. True story. 
>
> On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 5:43:55 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> https://youtu.be/R3Uf4OKYqzs
>>
>> The narrator is Phil Ligget's brother.
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 6:37 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>>> Now that's interesting. Watch even older videos of Coppi and Bartalli on 
>>> climbs and on the flats; 50 rpm standing in a 62" gear, and -- Coppi -- 120 
>>> rpm bursts in a 93" high alternating with coasting on the flats (48 X 14-21 
>>> 4 speed); much as I used to ride (we pros share a great deal) with the 
>>> difference that (this was 30 years ago) my flatland cruising was about 64" 
>>> at 108+ rpm for 20+ mph. No longer! 90 in a 76" gear is high. Funny, it was 
>>> riding fixed that transformed me from a twiddler to a masher; true.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 6:11 PM Garth  wrote:
>>>
 ... As I've watched pro road cycling since the 70/80's, this is how 
 everyone rode. Slow rpm in big gears uphill and huge gears spinning high 
 rpm with great supple' going downhill and on the flats. Watch Greg Lemond 
 in the 80's in race videos, he was fluid from the very low to very high 
 rpm. To be a pro you pretty much had to be able to do that. That started 
 to 
 change in the early 90's, where higher uphill rpm were beginning to 
 happen, 
 but that time frame coincided with the introduction of the drug EPO, which 
 basically gave riders more oxygen in the blood so they could push those 
 higher rpm without running out of oxygen. That's how the story goes as I 
 understood it at least. Even still,  you see riders ride in every 
 conceivable way and so one must caution against implying "everyone does 
 this or that" because everyone is unique in their own way. 

>>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Heck, even my Monocog is lighter than your Platypus. [Monocog with Specialized Hover bar]

[Joe Bernard]

My bike is lighter than a bike that's heavier than my bike but heavier than 
a bike that's lighter than my bike. True story. 

On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 5:43:55 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> https://youtu.be/R3Uf4OKYqzs
>
> The narrator is Phil Ligget's brother.
>
> On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 6:37 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> Now that's interesting. Watch even older videos of Coppi and Bartalli on 
>> climbs and on the flats; 50 rpm standing in a 62" gear, and -- Coppi -- 120 
>> rpm bursts in a 93" high alternating with coasting on the flats (48 X 14-21 
>> 4 speed); much as I used to ride (we pros share a great deal) with the 
>> difference that (this was 30 years ago) my flatland cruising was about 64" 
>> at 108+ rpm for 20+ mph. No longer! 90 in a 76" gear is high. Funny, it was 
>> riding fixed that transformed me from a twiddler to a masher; true.
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 6:11 PM Garth  wrote:
>>
>>> ... As I've watched pro road cycling since the 70/80's, this is how 
>>> everyone rode. Slow rpm in big gears uphill and huge gears spinning high 
>>> rpm with great supple' going downhill and on the flats. Watch Greg Lemond 
>>> in the 80's in race videos, he was fluid from the very low to very high 
>>> rpm. To be a pro you pretty much had to be able to do that. That started to 
>>> change in the early 90's, where higher uphill rpm were beginning to happen, 
>>> but that time frame coincided with the introduction of the drug EPO, which 
>>> basically gave riders more oxygen in the blood so they could push those 
>>> higher rpm without running out of oxygen. That's how the story goes as I 
>>> understood it at least. Even still,  you see riders ride in every 
>>> conceivable way and so one must caution against implying "everyone does 
>>> this or that" because everyone is unique in their own way. 
>>>
>>
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Heck, even my Monocog is lighter than your Platypus. [Monocog with Specialized Hover bar]

[Patrick Moore]

https://youtu.be/R3Uf4OKYqzs

The narrator is Phil Ligget's brother.

On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 6:37 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Now that's interesting. Watch even older videos of Coppi and Bartalli on
> climbs and on the flats; 50 rpm standing in a 62" gear, and -- Coppi -- 120
> rpm bursts in a 93" high alternating with coasting on the flats (48 X 14-21
> 4 speed); much as I used to ride (we pros share a great deal) with the
> difference that (this was 30 years ago) my flatland cruising was about 64"
> at 108+ rpm for 20+ mph. No longer! 90 in a 76" gear is high. Funny, it was
> riding fixed that transformed me from a twiddler to a masher; true.
>
> On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 6:11 PM Garth  wrote:
>
>> ... As I've watched pro road cycling since the 70/80's, this is how
>> everyone rode. Slow rpm in big gears uphill and huge gears spinning high
>> rpm with great supple' going downhill and on the flats. Watch Greg Lemond
>> in the 80's in race videos, he was fluid from the very low to very high
>> rpm. To be a pro you pretty much had to be able to do that. That started to
>> change in the early 90's, where higher uphill rpm were beginning to happen,
>> but that time frame coincided with the introduction of the drug EPO, which
>> basically gave riders more oxygen in the blood so they could push those
>> higher rpm without running out of oxygen. That's how the story goes as I
>> understood it at least. Even still,  you see riders ride in every
>> conceivable way and so one must caution against implying "everyone does
>> this or that" because everyone is unique in their own way.
>>
>

-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Re: [RBW] Re: Heck, even my Monocog is lighter than your Platypus. [Monocog with Specialized Hover bar]

[Patrick Moore]

Now that's interesting. Watch even older videos of Coppi and Bartalli on
climbs and on the flats; 50 rpm standing in a 62" gear, and -- Coppi -- 120
rpm bursts in a 93" high alternating with coasting on the flats (48 X 14-21
4 speed); much as I used to ride (we pros share a great deal) with the
difference that (this was 30 years ago) my flatland cruising was about 64"
at 108+ rpm for 20+ mph. No longer! 90 in a 76" gear is high. Funny, it was
riding fixed that transformed me from a twiddler to a masher; true.

On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 6:11 PM Garth  wrote:

> ... As I've watched pro road cycling since the 70/80's, this is how
> everyone rode. Slow rpm in big gears uphill and huge gears spinning high
> rpm with great supple' going downhill and on the flats. Watch Greg Lemond
> in the 80's in race videos, he was fluid from the very low to very high
> rpm. To be a pro you pretty much had to be able to do that. That started to
> change in the early 90's, where higher uphill rpm were beginning to happen,
> but that time frame coincided with the introduction of the drug EPO, which
> basically gave riders more oxygen in the blood so they could push those
> higher rpm without running out of oxygen. That's how the story goes as I
> understood it at least. Even still,  you see riders ride in every
> conceivable way and so one must caution against implying "everyone does
> this or that" because everyone is unique in their own way.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Heck, even my Monocog is lighter than your Platypus. [Monocog with Specialized Hover bar]

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

I’m going to make a video in which I lift my pair of Platypuses over my 
head. Racks. Bags. The whole bit. You can’t do that with your Monocog! 😜🤣

On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 8:27:01 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

> I twiddle, thou twiddlest, he/she/it twiddeleth, we twiddle, y'all 
> twiddle, they twiddle.
>
> I expect that if you repeat "twiddle" rapidly 1,000 times while breathing 
> very shallowly and rapidly you will receive some sort of enlightenment.
>
> On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 5:52 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
>> I twiddle, I'm a big twiddler. Twiddling my life away. 
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Heck, even my Monocog is lighter than your Platypus. [Monocog with Specialized Hover bar]

[Patrick Moore]

I twiddle, thou twiddlest, he/she/it twiddeleth, we twiddle, y'all twiddle,
they twiddle.

I expect that if you repeat "twiddle" rapidly 1,000 times while breathing
very shallowly and rapidly you will receive some sort of enlightenment.

On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 5:52 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:

> I twiddle, I'm a big twiddler. Twiddling my life away.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Heck, even my Monocog is lighter than your Platypus. [Monocog with Specialized Hover bar]

[Garth]

Yep Patrick and Steve that's what I do. 

Spinning fast uphill in a tiny gear = going nowhere in a hurry and running 
out of breath. Going uphill in the largest gear I can get away with while 
pedaling slow and steady = very efficient in terms of propulsion forward, 
strength and breathing long, deep breaths. Actually on the steepest parts 
I'm bent over more forward with more arm bend the harder it gets, so in 
that way it really doesn't change from flats to uphill when pushing hard. 
The only difference is in the rpm. Both are quad burners ... heeheehee ! 

As I've watched pro road cycling since the 70/80's, this is how everyone 
rode. Slow rpm in big gears uphill and huge gears spinning high rpm with 
great supple' going downhill and on the flats. Watch Greg Lemond in the 
80's in race videos, he was fluid from the very low to very high rpm. To be 
a pro you pretty much had to be able to do that. That started to change in 
the early 90's, where higher uphill rpm were beginning to happen, but that 
time frame coincided with the introduction of the drug EPO, which basically 
gave riders more oxygen in the blood so they could push those higher rpm 
without running out of oxygen. That's how the story goes as I understood it 
at least. Even still,  you see riders ride in every conceivable way and so 
one must caution against implying "everyone does this or that" because 
everyone is unique in their own way. 


On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 7:23:39 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

I think Garth does what I do, which is to shove back to the end of the 
saddle, put hands on ramps or flats, and push the crank forward and around 
at top dead center in a highish gear; right, Garth?

Me, I expect there are as many different climbing styles as there are 
gearing patterns, and perhaps some people like to sit upright and spin a 
very low gear. I (who raised the matter) can't climb like this because I 
don't twiddle when climbing. When I twiddle, it is to accelerate or to 
maintain peak speed (not very speedy in my case) and, to do so, move 
forward and bend low -- "on the rivet" as they used to say.

On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 2:52 PM Steven Sweedler  wrote:

On big climbs do you ride in the  drops of with hands on the ramps. Steve

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Re: [RBW] Re: Heck, even my Monocog is lighter than your Platypus. [Monocog with Specialized Hover bar]

[Joe Bernard]

I twiddle, I'm a big twiddler. Twiddling my life away. 

On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 4:23:39 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> I think Garth does what I do, which is to shove back to the end of the 
> saddle, put hands on ramps or flats, and push the crank forward and around 
> at top dead center in a highish gear; right, Garth?
>
> Me, I expect there are as many different climbing styles as there are 
> gearing patterns, and perhaps some people like to sit upright and spin a 
> very low gear. I (who raised the matter) can't climb like this because I 
> don't twiddle when climbing. When I twiddle, it is to accelerate or to 
> maintain peak speed (not very speedy in my case) and, to do so, move 
> forward and bend low -- "on the rivet" as they used to say.
>
> On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 2:52 PM Steven Sweedler  wrote:
>
>> On big climbs do you ride in the  drops of with hands on the ramps. Steve
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 1:32 PM Garth  wrote:
>>
>>> There's nothing to get Patrick as how you've explained how you 
>>> position/ride is quite "natural" to me. That said, I never have or will 
>>> ride a bike with very, very high bars. I won't say it's impossible to sit 
>>> very upright and spin up steep hills, but it's surely awkward and 
>>> inefficient to sit up too straight. Like you, in spinning I naturally move 
>>> long and low. As a hill steepens and I can no longer maintain that cadence 
>>> and quad load, I naturally move back a little in the saddle and sit up a 
>>> little, just enough to pedal in my power zone. Never way upright !  Having 
>>> given the higher bar positions(say 3" max hand position about saddle 
>>> height) a try for a number of years, I can positively say I don't like it 
>>> and found it to be a exercise in ever increasing futility. It just feels 
>>> all wrong to me. Oh what a relief it is to lower the bars where my hands 
>>> are just above saddle height at the highest, and I've found a much 
>>> better/more suitable saddle to facilitate a low-er road position, an Ergon 
>>> SMC. Oh where has a saddle like that been all my life .. ! I just never 
>>> tried them out before now. 
>>>
>>> I've been meaning to get a hanging scale of some sort. I'm more apt to 
>>> get a analog/dial one as they don't need batteries to function and battery 
>>> dependency generally sucks. I have analog kitchen scales from the 70's that 
>>> I use all the time. The Bombadil is a tankster and my Franklin feels like a 
>>> heavy-er version of the various Columbus SL/SLX racing bikes I used to own. 
>>> I love me some road bikes and riding ! 
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>> -- 
>> Steven Sweedler
>> Plymouth, New Hampshire
>>
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>>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALimyfL0Hco3-%3Dzqswh2d5Wg42yPdzFVwLE_0Jwa91DtH-n_CQ%40mail.gmail.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Heck, even my Monocog is lighter than your Platypus. [Monocog with Specialized Hover bar]

[Patrick Moore]

I think Garth does what I do, which is to shove back to the end of the
saddle, put hands on ramps or flats, and push the crank forward and around
at top dead center in a highish gear; right, Garth?

Me, I expect there are as many different climbing styles as there are
gearing patterns, and perhaps some people like to sit upright and spin a
very low gear. I (who raised the matter) can't climb like this because I
don't twiddle when climbing. When I twiddle, it is to accelerate or to
maintain peak speed (not very speedy in my case) and, to do so, move
forward and bend low -- "on the rivet" as they used to say.

On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 2:52 PM Steven Sweedler  wrote:

> On big climbs do you ride in the  drops of with hands on the ramps. Steve
>
> On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 1:32 PM Garth  wrote:
>
>> There's nothing to get Patrick as how you've explained how you
>> position/ride is quite "natural" to me. That said, I never have or will
>> ride a bike with very, very high bars. I won't say it's impossible to sit
>> very upright and spin up steep hills, but it's surely awkward and
>> inefficient to sit up too straight. Like you, in spinning I naturally move
>> long and low. As a hill steepens and I can no longer maintain that cadence
>> and quad load, I naturally move back a little in the saddle and sit up a
>> little, just enough to pedal in my power zone. Never way upright !  Having
>> given the higher bar positions(say 3" max hand position about saddle
>> height) a try for a number of years, I can positively say I don't like it
>> and found it to be a exercise in ever increasing futility. It just feels
>> all wrong to me. Oh what a relief it is to lower the bars where my hands
>> are just above saddle height at the highest, and I've found a much
>> better/more suitable saddle to facilitate a low-er road position, an Ergon
>> SMC. Oh where has a saddle like that been all my life .. ! I just never
>> tried them out before now.
>>
>> I've been meaning to get a hanging scale of some sort. I'm more apt to
>> get a analog/dial one as they don't need batteries to function and battery
>> dependency generally sucks. I have analog kitchen scales from the 70's that
>> I use all the time. The Bombadil is a tankster and my Franklin feels like a
>> heavy-er version of the various Columbus SL/SLX racing bikes I used to own.
>> I love me some road bikes and riding !
>>
>> --
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> 
>> .
>>
> --
> Steven Sweedler
> Plymouth, New Hampshire
>
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> 
> .
>


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---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Re: [RBW] Re: Heck, even my Monocog is lighter than your Platypus. [Monocog with Specialized Hover bar]

[Steve]

In the words of Sly Stone, "Different strokes for different folks".  Nuff 
said.

On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 4:52:23 PM UTC-4 Steven Sweedler wrote:

> On big climbs do you ride in the  drops of with hands on the ramps. Steve
>
> On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 1:32 PM Garth  wrote:
>
>> There's nothing to get Patrick as how you've explained how you 
>> position/ride is quite "natural" to me. That said, I never have or will 
>> ride a bike with very, very high bars. I won't say it's impossible to sit 
>> very upright and spin up steep hills, but it's surely awkward and 
>> inefficient to sit up too straight. Like you, in spinning I naturally move 
>> long and low. As a hill steepens and I can no longer maintain that cadence 
>> and quad load, I naturally move back a little in the saddle and sit up a 
>> little, just enough to pedal in my power zone. Never way upright !  Having 
>> given the higher bar positions(say 3" max hand position about saddle 
>> height) a try for a number of years, I can positively say I don't like it 
>> and found it to be a exercise in ever increasing futility. It just feels 
>> all wrong to me. Oh what a relief it is to lower the bars where my hands 
>> are just above saddle height at the highest, and I've found a much 
>> better/more suitable saddle to facilitate a low-er road position, an Ergon 
>> SMC. Oh where has a saddle like that been all my life .. ! I just never 
>> tried them out before now. 
>>
>> I've been meaning to get a hanging scale of some sort. I'm more apt to 
>> get a analog/dial one as they don't need batteries to function and battery 
>> dependency generally sucks. I have analog kitchen scales from the 70's that 
>> I use all the time. The Bombadil is a tankster and my Franklin feels like a 
>> heavy-er version of the various Columbus SL/SLX racing bikes I used to own. 
>> I love me some road bikes and riding ! 
>>
>> -- 
>>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/5c1c0ca6-43fd-40e2-8b78-cd997faab5adn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
> -- 
> Steven Sweedler
> Plymouth, New Hampshire
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Heck, even my Monocog is lighter than your Platypus. [Monocog with Specialized Hover bar]

[Steven Sweedler]

On big climbs do you ride in the  drops of with hands on the ramps. Steve

On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 1:32 PM Garth  wrote:

> There's nothing to get Patrick as how you've explained how you
> position/ride is quite "natural" to me. That said, I never have or will
> ride a bike with very, very high bars. I won't say it's impossible to sit
> very upright and spin up steep hills, but it's surely awkward and
> inefficient to sit up too straight. Like you, in spinning I naturally move
> long and low. As a hill steepens and I can no longer maintain that cadence
> and quad load, I naturally move back a little in the saddle and sit up a
> little, just enough to pedal in my power zone. Never way upright !  Having
> given the higher bar positions(say 3" max hand position about saddle
> height) a try for a number of years, I can positively say I don't like it
> and found it to be a exercise in ever increasing futility. It just feels
> all wrong to me. Oh what a relief it is to lower the bars where my hands
> are just above saddle height at the highest, and I've found a much
> better/more suitable saddle to facilitate a low-er road position, an Ergon
> SMC. Oh where has a saddle like that been all my life .. ! I just never
> tried them out before now.
>
> I've been meaning to get a hanging scale of some sort. I'm more apt to get
> a analog/dial one as they don't need batteries to function and battery
> dependency generally sucks. I have analog kitchen scales from the 70's that
> I use all the time. The Bombadil is a tankster and my Franklin feels like a
> heavy-er version of the various Columbus SL/SLX racing bikes I used to own.
> I love me some road bikes and riding !
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> 
> .
>
-- 
Steven Sweedler
Plymouth, New Hampshire

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[RBW] Re: Heck, even my Monocog is lighter than your Platypus. [Monocog with Specialized Hover bar]

[Garth]

There's nothing to get Patrick as how you've explained how you 
position/ride is quite "natural" to me. That said, I never have or will 
ride a bike with very, very high bars. I won't say it's impossible to sit 
very upright and spin up steep hills, but it's surely awkward and 
inefficient to sit up too straight. Like you, in spinning I naturally move 
long and low. As a hill steepens and I can no longer maintain that cadence 
and quad load, I naturally move back a little in the saddle and sit up a 
little, just enough to pedal in my power zone. Never way upright !  Having 
given the higher bar positions(say 3" max hand position about saddle 
height) a try for a number of years, I can positively say I don't like it 
and found it to be a exercise in ever increasing futility. It just feels 
all wrong to me. Oh what a relief it is to lower the bars where my hands 
are just above saddle height at the highest, and I've found a much 
better/more suitable saddle to facilitate a low-er road position, an Ergon 
SMC. Oh where has a saddle like that been all my life .. ! I just never 
tried them out before now. 

I've been meaning to get a hanging scale of some sort. I'm more apt to get 
a analog/dial one as they don't need batteries to function and battery 
dependency generally sucks. I have analog kitchen scales from the 70's that 
I use all the time. The Bombadil is a tankster and my Franklin feels like a 
heavy-er version of the various Columbus SL/SLX racing bikes I used to own. 
I love me some road bikes and riding ! 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Heck, even my Monocog is lighter than your Platypus. [Monocog with Specialized Hover bar]

[Joe Bernard]

I have a 50. 

Granny Joe Bernard 

On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 9:48:17 AM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Yes, I meant those huge inner cogs. I don't know if they actually get to 
> 52 teeth but I believe they've reached 50.
>
> On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 6:48 AM lconley  wrote:
>
>> 52 tooth granny cog on the freewheel, I assume.
>> I use the term granny for the small chainwheel on the crank, but others 
>> may not.
>>
>> Laing
>>
>> On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 12:32:01 AM UTC-4 Philip Williamson wrote:
>>
>>> 52 tooth granny cog? 
>>>
>>> Philip 
>>> SR, CA
>>>
>>> On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 6:08:22 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 OTOH: this is puzzling: I see so many Rivendells on this list with 
 very, very high bars, but with 52 tooth granny cogs; IOW gearing designed 
 for low-torque fast-cadence twiddling. I don't get it. When I spin I move 
 forward and down; when I torque I shove back and sit up. What gives? 
 Someone explain.

 On Thu, Apr 27, 2023 at 6:18 PM Patrick Moore  
 wrote:

> ... And one more interesting thing: A more forward and lower position 
> makes you re-think your saddle position. With the M/A I had the saddle -- 
> first edition Flite -- slammed all the way back on the rails and seapost 
> raised for full leg extension; I wanted to sit back and push forward. 
> Leaning and reaching more forward, I wanted to move the saddle forward 
> and 
> down; which I did, ~7 mm forward and ~10 mm down. This felt better 
> particularly in the hooks, which with the slightly lower and closer 
> saddle 
> are now much more comfortable. But the further-forward hoods position 
> also 
> make standing and grunting, as through sand, feel more natural compared 
> to 
> the closer and higher M/A. So perhaps I don't need a shorter or a higher 
> stem after all.
>
 -- 
>>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/353ccda2-2c4a-4f82-be87-14cded87de64n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Heck, even my Monocog is lighter than your Platypus. [Monocog with Specialized Hover bar]

[Patrick Moore]

Yes, I meant those huge inner cogs. I don't know if they actually get to 52
teeth but I believe they've reached 50.

On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 6:48 AM lconley  wrote:

> 52 tooth granny cog on the freewheel, I assume.
> I use the term granny for the small chainwheel on the crank, but others
> may not.
>
> Laing
>
> On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 12:32:01 AM UTC-4 Philip Williamson wrote:
>
>> 52 tooth granny cog?
>>
>> Philip
>> SR, CA
>>
>> On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 6:08:22 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> OTOH: this is puzzling: I see so many Rivendells on this list with very,
>>> very high bars, but with 52 tooth granny cogs; IOW gearing designed for
>>> low-torque fast-cadence twiddling. I don't get it. When I spin I move
>>> forward and down; when I torque I shove back and sit up. What gives?
>>> Someone explain.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 27, 2023 at 6:18 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>>
 ... And one more interesting thing: A more forward and lower position
 makes you re-think your saddle position. With the M/A I had the saddle --
 first edition Flite -- slammed all the way back on the rails and seapost
 raised for full leg extension; I wanted to sit back and push forward.
 Leaning and reaching more forward, I wanted to move the saddle forward and
 down; which I did, ~7 mm forward and ~10 mm down. This felt better
 particularly in the hooks, which with the slightly lower and closer saddle
 are now much more comfortable. But the further-forward hoods position also
 make standing and grunting, as through sand, feel more natural compared to
 the closer and higher M/A. So perhaps I don't need a shorter or a higher
 stem after all.

>>> --
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> 
> .
>


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---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[RBW] Re: Heck, even my Monocog is lighter than your Platypus. [Monocog with Specialized Hover bar]

[DavidP]

Traditionally I think that's been the most common use of the term "granny 
gear" in the context of bicycle gearing, though it's likely due to the fact 
that for a long time the only way to get gearing low enough for your 
grandmother to push was to put a small chainring up front. With modern 
cassettes and derailleurs you can get a granny gear with a large rear cog 
on a 1x setup so I think Patrick's use makes sense.

-Dave

On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 8:48:05 AM UTC-4 lconley wrote:

> 52 tooth granny cog on the freewheel, I assume.
> I use the term granny for the small chainwheel on the crank, but others 
> may not.
>
> Laing
>
> On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 12:32:01 AM UTC-4 Philip Williamson wrote:
>
>> 52 tooth granny cog? 
>>
>> Philip 
>> SR, CA
>>
>> On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 6:08:22 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> OTOH: this is puzzling: I see so many Rivendells on this list with very, 
>>> very high bars, but with 52 tooth granny cogs; IOW gearing designed for 
>>> low-torque fast-cadence twiddling. I don't get it. When I spin I move 
>>> forward and down; when I torque I shove back and sit up. What gives? 
>>> Someone explain.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 27, 2023 at 6:18 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>>
 ... And one more interesting thing: A more forward and lower position 
 makes you re-think your saddle position. With the M/A I had the saddle -- 
 first edition Flite -- slammed all the way back on the rails and seapost 
 raised for full leg extension; I wanted to sit back and push forward. 
 Leaning and reaching more forward, I wanted to move the saddle forward and 
 down; which I did, ~7 mm forward and ~10 mm down. This felt better 
 particularly in the hooks, which with the slightly lower and closer saddle 
 are now much more comfortable. But the further-forward hoods position also 
 make standing and grunting, as through sand, feel more natural compared to 
 the closer and higher M/A. So perhaps I don't need a shorter or a higher 
 stem after all.

>>>

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[RBW] Re: Heck, even my Monocog is lighter than your Platypus. [Monocog with Specialized Hover bar]

[lconley]

52 tooth granny cog on the freewheel, I assume.
I use the term granny for the small chainwheel on the crank, but others may 
not.

Laing

On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 12:32:01 AM UTC-4 Philip Williamson wrote:

> 52 tooth granny cog? 
>
> Philip 
> SR, CA
>
> On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 6:08:22 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> OTOH: this is puzzling: I see so many Rivendells on this list with very, 
>> very high bars, but with 52 tooth granny cogs; IOW gearing designed for 
>> low-torque fast-cadence twiddling. I don't get it. When I spin I move 
>> forward and down; when I torque I shove back and sit up. What gives? 
>> Someone explain.
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 27, 2023 at 6:18 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>>> ... And one more interesting thing: A more forward and lower position 
>>> makes you re-think your saddle position. With the M/A I had the saddle -- 
>>> first edition Flite -- slammed all the way back on the rails and seapost 
>>> raised for full leg extension; I wanted to sit back and push forward. 
>>> Leaning and reaching more forward, I wanted to move the saddle forward and 
>>> down; which I did, ~7 mm forward and ~10 mm down. This felt better 
>>> particularly in the hooks, which with the slightly lower and closer saddle 
>>> are now much more comfortable. But the further-forward hoods position also 
>>> make standing and grunting, as through sand, feel more natural compared to 
>>> the closer and higher M/A. So perhaps I don't need a shorter or a higher 
>>> stem after all.
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Heck, even my Monocog is lighter than your Platypus. [Monocog with Specialized Hover bar]

[Doug H.]

I lean forward but not downward with the Tosco bars on my Clem. I get neck 
pain when the forward lean is also downward over long distances so the bars 
being above the saddle is my preference. The grip portion of the bars does 
sit me upright but the bars have a couple of forward areas that I use as 
well.
Doug

On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 12:32:01 AM UTC-4 Philip Williamson wrote:

> 52 tooth granny cog? 
>
> Philip 
> SR, CA
>
> On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 6:08:22 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> OTOH: this is puzzling: I see so many Rivendells on this list with very, 
>> very high bars, but with 52 tooth granny cogs; IOW gearing designed for 
>> low-torque fast-cadence twiddling. I don't get it. When I spin I move 
>> forward and down; when I torque I shove back and sit up. What gives? 
>> Someone explain.
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 27, 2023 at 6:18 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>>> ... And one more interesting thing: A more forward and lower position 
>>> makes you re-think your saddle position. With the M/A I had the saddle -- 
>>> first edition Flite -- slammed all the way back on the rails and seapost 
>>> raised for full leg extension; I wanted to sit back and push forward. 
>>> Leaning and reaching more forward, I wanted to move the saddle forward and 
>>> down; which I did, ~7 mm forward and ~10 mm down. This felt better 
>>> particularly in the hooks, which with the slightly lower and closer saddle 
>>> are now much more comfortable. But the further-forward hoods position also 
>>> make standing and grunting, as through sand, feel more natural compared to 
>>> the closer and higher M/A. So perhaps I don't need a shorter or a higher 
>>> stem after all.
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Heck, even my Monocog is lighter than your Platypus. [Monocog with Specialized Hover bar]

[Philip Williamson]

52 tooth granny cog? 

Philip 
SR, CA

On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 6:08:22 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> OTOH: this is puzzling: I see so many Rivendells on this list with very, 
> very high bars, but with 52 tooth granny cogs; IOW gearing designed for 
> low-torque fast-cadence twiddling. I don't get it. When I spin I move 
> forward and down; when I torque I shove back and sit up. What gives? 
> Someone explain.
>
> On Thu, Apr 27, 2023 at 6:18 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> ... And one more interesting thing: A more forward and lower position 
>> makes you re-think your saddle position. With the M/A I had the saddle -- 
>> first edition Flite -- slammed all the way back on the rails and seapost 
>> raised for full leg extension; I wanted to sit back and push forward. 
>> Leaning and reaching more forward, I wanted to move the saddle forward and 
>> down; which I did, ~7 mm forward and ~10 mm down. This felt better 
>> particularly in the hooks, which with the slightly lower and closer saddle 
>> are now much more comfortable. But the further-forward hoods position also 
>> make standing and grunting, as through sand, feel more natural compared to 
>> the closer and higher M/A. So perhaps I don't need a shorter or a higher 
>> stem after all.
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Heck, even my Monocog is lighter than your Platypus. [Monocog with Specialized Hover bar]

[Patrick Moore]

I'm sorry, what logic are we talking about?

I shove back and sit up for low-cadence, high-torque pedaling, and I move
forward and down when I want to spin fast. My riding includes both extremes
but it also includes the entire middle ground. So again, I don't understand
"logic."

Patrick Moore, who has a doctorate in Aristotelian philosophy.


On Thu, Apr 27, 2023 at 7:36 PM Brian Turner  wrote:

> That logic would only make sense if most of your riding exists in either
> of those two extremes.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Heck, even my Monocog is lighter than your Platypus. [Monocog with Specialized Hover bar]

[Brian Turner]

That logic would only make sense if most of your riding exists in either of those two extremes.On Apr 27, 2023, at 9:15 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:I sit upright because I like it and I use really low gears because the hills are steep.  On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 6:08:22 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:OTOH: this is puzzling: I see so many Rivendells on this list with very, very high bars, but with 52 tooth granny cogs; IOW gearing designed for low-torque fast-cadence twiddling. I don't get it. When I spin I move forward and down; when I torque I shove back and sit up. What gives? Someone explain.On Thu, Apr 27, 2023 at 6:18 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:... And one more interesting thing: A more forward and lower position makes you re-think your saddle position. With the M/A I had the saddle -- first edition Flite -- slammed all the way back on the rails and seapost raised for full leg extension; I wanted to sit back and push forward. Leaning and reaching more forward, I wanted to move the saddle forward and down; which I did, ~7 mm forward and ~10 mm down. This felt better particularly in the hooks, which with the slightly lower and closer saddle are now much more comfortable. But the further-forward hoods position also make standing and grunting, as through sand, feel more natural compared to the closer and higher M/A. So perhaps I don't need a shorter or a higher stem after all.




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[RBW] Re: Heck, even my Monocog is lighter than your Platypus. [Monocog with Specialized Hover bar]

[Joe Bernard]

I sit upright because I like it and I use really low gears because the 
hills are steep.  

On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 6:08:22 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> OTOH: this is puzzling: I see so many Rivendells on this list with very, 
> very high bars, but with 52 tooth granny cogs; IOW gearing designed for 
> low-torque fast-cadence twiddling. I don't get it. When I spin I move 
> forward and down; when I torque I shove back and sit up. What gives? 
> Someone explain.
>
> On Thu, Apr 27, 2023 at 6:18 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> ... And one more interesting thing: A more forward and lower position 
>> makes you re-think your saddle position. With the M/A I had the saddle -- 
>> first edition Flite -- slammed all the way back on the rails and seapost 
>> raised for full leg extension; I wanted to sit back and push forward. 
>> Leaning and reaching more forward, I wanted to move the saddle forward and 
>> down; which I did, ~7 mm forward and ~10 mm down. This felt better 
>> particularly in the hooks, which with the slightly lower and closer saddle 
>> are now much more comfortable. But the further-forward hoods position also 
>> make standing and grunting, as through sand, feel more natural compared to 
>> the closer and higher M/A. So perhaps I don't need a shorter or a higher 
>> stem after all.
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Heck, even my Monocog is lighter than your Platypus. [Monocog with Specialized Hover bar]

[Patrick Moore]

OTOH: this is puzzling: I see so many Rivendells on this list with very,
very high bars, but with 52 tooth granny cogs; IOW gearing designed for
low-torque fast-cadence twiddling. I don't get it. When I spin I move
forward and down; when I torque I shove back and sit up. What gives?
Someone explain.

On Thu, Apr 27, 2023 at 6:18 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> ... And one more interesting thing: A more forward and lower position
> makes you re-think your saddle position. With the M/A I had the saddle --
> first edition Flite -- slammed all the way back on the rails and seapost
> raised for full leg extension; I wanted to sit back and push forward.
> Leaning and reaching more forward, I wanted to move the saddle forward and
> down; which I did, ~7 mm forward and ~10 mm down. This felt better
> particularly in the hooks, which with the slightly lower and closer saddle
> are now much more comfortable. But the further-forward hoods position also
> make standing and grunting, as through sand, feel more natural compared to
> the closer and higher M/A. So perhaps I don't need a shorter or a higher
> stem after all.
>

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