[RBW] Re: Lightweight wheels question: J bend vs straight pull (Ritchey vs Hunt)

2023-01-16 Thread Piaw Na 
I would consider Ted Neugent's 
wheels: http://www.neugentcycling.com/Alloy-Wheels.html

The TwoX technology (16 drive side spokes, 8 non-drive side spokes so you 
can have equal tension of spokes on both sides, with washers on the 
non-drive side so you can tension them safely without the rim cracking) 
makes a lot of sense to me. I've ordered a set and will report back when I 
get some real riding experience. I build my own wheels and they're reliable 
but his approach makes sense and he has the scale to get the right parts 
drilled correctly in this case, and I can't build anything  as light.

On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 1:18:22 PM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hey there group,  
>
> As far as pre-built, lightweight alloy wheelsets are concerned, I'm 
> currently looking at 3: 
> Pacenti brevet, Ritchey Zeta II classic, and Hunt but leaning towards the 
> last 2. I've had experience with Ritchey's and really enjoyed them and 
> their clever J-bend design, but Hunt's are better stocked. Does anyone have 
> positive experience with Hunt wheels or do they lack longevity? 
>
> I'd also be inclined to hear about your custom-built lightweight wheelset 
> experiences. My goal weight is something in the 1600g range w/ skewers.  
>
> Cheers, 
> Andrew
>

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[RBW] Re: Lightweight wheels question: J bend vs straight pull (Ritchey vs Hunt)

2023-01-16 Thread Andrew Turner 
Wow yes, these look fantastic on paper. I actually went ahead and pulled 
the trigger on a set of them so I suppose we'll both see how things go.

Thanks for the tip!!
On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 3:44:22 PM UTC-6 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> I would consider Ted Neugent's wheels: 
> http://www.neugentcycling.com/Alloy-Wheels.html
>
> The TwoX technology (16 drive side spokes, 8 non-drive side spokes so you 
> can have equal tension of spokes on both sides, with washers on the 
> non-drive side so you can tension them safely without the rim cracking) 
> makes a lot of sense to me. I've ordered a set and will report back when I 
> get some real riding experience. I build my own wheels and they're reliable 
> but his approach makes sense and he has the scale to get the right parts 
> drilled correctly in this case, and I can't build anything  as light.
>
> On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 1:18:22 PM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Hey there group,  
>>
>> As far as pre-built, lightweight alloy wheelsets are concerned, I'm 
>> currently looking at 3: 
>> Pacenti brevet, Ritchey Zeta II classic, and Hunt but leaning towards the 
>> last 2. I've had experience with Ritchey's and really enjoyed them and 
>> their clever J-bend design, but Hunt's are better stocked. Does anyone have 
>> positive experience with Hunt wheels or do they lack longevity? 
>>
>> I'd also be inclined to hear about your custom-built lightweight wheelset 
>> experiences. My goal weight is something in the 1600g range w/ skewers.  
>>
>> Cheers, 
>> Andrew
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Lightweight wheels question: J bend vs straight pull (Ritchey vs Hunt)

2023-01-16 Thread Will Boericke 
DT Swiss 240 to a 450g rim (Archetype, DT 450, Kinlin TL-21, etc) all day 
long.  I own 2 sets of these - bombproof and light.  All parts can be 
easily found (no proprietary badged hubs that you need bearings for 10 
years down the road and cannot find).  J-bend spokes for the win.  ERD of 
the standard 22mm deep 450g rim is pretty constant (in the 597 range), so 
when it dies you can replace easily.  You could go fewer spokes to save 
some grams, but unlikely you'd regret 32.  

Alternatively, I have a set of Bitex hubs to older Pacenti SL23s that 
definitely make that weight cut and have been low-maintenance (well, THOSE 
Pacenti rims were okay; the ones on my cross bike were not).  But I like 
DTs freehub design better.

I would avoid a straight pull hubset because they're a little more finicky 
to work with down the road, but not a deal breaker.  I'm about to lace one 
up for my fatbike but that's because it was a deal.

Will

On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 6:44:42 PM UTC-5 Nick Payne wrote:

> Here's pair I built myself - Newmen Fade 28h thru axle hubs, Light Bicycle 
> AR28 (22mm internal width) rims, Sapim CX-Ray straight pull spokes. Weight 
> 1380g. They've been perfectly reliable and have remained dead true in the 
> 18 months I've been riding them. All-up cost of the parts was about $AU900 
> (~$US600).
> [image: PXL_20210608_022518518.jpg]
> [image: PXL_20210608_022600960.jpg]
> [image: PXL_20210608_022635313.jpg]
>
> Nick
>

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[RBW] Re: Lightweight wheels question: J bend vs straight pull (Ritchey vs Hunt)

2023-01-17 Thread lconley 
So if the spoke tension is equal on both sides, why would one side need 
washers? Makes no sense to me.

Laing

On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 4:44:22 PM UTC-5 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> I would consider Ted Neugent's wheels: 
> http://www.neugentcycling.com/Alloy-Wheels.html
>
> The TwoX technology (16 drive side spokes, 8 non-drive side spokes so you 
> can have equal tension of spokes on both sides, with washers on the 
> non-drive side so you can tension them safely without the rim cracking) 
> makes a lot of sense to me. I've ordered a set and will report back when I 
> get some real riding experience. I build my own wheels and they're reliable 
> but his approach makes sense and he has the scale to get the right parts 
> drilled correctly in this case, and I can't build anything  as light.
>
> On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 1:18:22 PM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Hey there group,  
>>
>> As far as pre-built, lightweight alloy wheelsets are concerned, I'm 
>> currently looking at 3: 
>> Pacenti brevet, Ritchey Zeta II classic, and Hunt but leaning towards the 
>> last 2. I've had experience with Ritchey's and really enjoyed them and 
>> their clever J-bend design, but Hunt's are better stocked. Does anyone have 
>> positive experience with Hunt wheels or do they lack longevity? 
>>
>> I'd also be inclined to hear about your custom-built lightweight wheelset 
>> experiences. My goal weight is something in the 1600g range w/ skewers.  
>>
>> Cheers, 
>> Andrew
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Lightweight wheels question: J bend vs straight pull (Ritchey vs Hunt)

2023-01-18 Thread ascpgh 
What I've always wondered about straight pull vs. J-bend spokes is the 
risk/benefit comparison. 

The fixtures necessary to create on the straight pull hub that receive 
force concentrated by the head of the spoke need to be more robust than a 
conventional drilled hub flange. They have greater contact surface and 
tangential distribution of energy gained through the contact of the spokes' 
J-shape, particularly the outbound, against the hub flange material. The 
straight pull hub must transfer all energy directly by only the head of the 
spoke. 

Seems that to make the spoke head fixtures on a straight pull hub body you 
must ensure enough material for strength and avoid stress risers by design 
that a weight comparison isn't the highlight. Weight savings at the hub are 
much less impressive to me than those outward on the circumference. 

For load bearing parts the importance of experience weighs very well 
against garage innovations. Shimano or Campagnolo know some things about 
hubs institutionally and would not focus on any single aspect of a hub 
design unless able to address the rest of their corporate secret soup. 
Having lived through the CNC '90s in a bike shop I've seen lot of boutique 
maker parts after the fail and the wrath of owners unhappy their money 
didn't buy them out of being concerned for simple failure such as axle of 
spindle breaks. Whether from less than professional machine work, material 
selection or tolerances not as tight as they should have been, I saw those 
things come back in parts.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 6:44:42 PM UTC-5 Nick Payne wrote:

> Here's pair I built myself - Newmen Fade 28h thru axle hubs, Light Bicycle 
> AR28 (22mm internal width) rims, Sapim CX-Ray straight pull spokes. Weight 
> 1380g. They've been perfectly reliable and have remained dead true in the 
> 18 months I've been riding them. All-up cost of the parts was about $AU900 
> (~$US600).
> [image: PXL_20210608_022518518.jpg]
> [image: PXL_20210608_022600960.jpg]
> [image: PXL_20210608_022635313.jpg]
>
> Nick
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lightweight wheels question: J bend vs straight pull (Ritchey vs Hunt)

2023-01-17 Thread 藍俊彪 
The drive side still has higher tension, and the way to get durable wheels
is to get high tension without cracking the rim. The washers spread the
load of the spoke nipple over a wider area and prevents the rim from
cracking. With lowish spoke count wheels and dished wheels, you can easily
exceed the rim's cracking threshold.

On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 4:27 AM lconley  wrote:

> So if the spoke tension is equal on both sides, why would one side need
> washers? Makes no sense to me.
>
> Laing
>
> On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 4:44:22 PM UTC-5 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I would consider Ted Neugent's wheels:
>> http://www.neugentcycling.com/Alloy-Wheels.html
>>
>> The TwoX technology (16 drive side spokes, 8 non-drive side spokes so you
>> can have equal tension of spokes on both sides, with washers on the
>> non-drive side so you can tension them safely without the rim cracking)
>> makes a lot of sense to me. I've ordered a set and will report back when I
>> get some real riding experience. I build my own wheels and they're reliable
>> but his approach makes sense and he has the scale to get the right parts
>> drilled correctly in this case, and I can't build anything  as light.
>>
>> On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 1:18:22 PM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hey there group,
>>>
>>> As far as pre-built, lightweight alloy wheelsets are concerned, I'm
>>> currently looking at 3:
>>> Pacenti brevet, Ritchey Zeta II classic, and Hunt but leaning towards
>>> the last 2. I've had experience with Ritchey's and really enjoyed them and
>>> their clever J-bend design, but Hunt's are better stocked. Does anyone have
>>> positive experience with Hunt wheels or do they lack longevity?
>>>
>>> I'd also be inclined to hear about your custom-built lightweight
>>> wheelset experiences. My goal weight is something in the 1600g range w/
>>> skewers.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Andrew
>>>
>> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Lightweight wheels question: J bend vs straight pull (Ritchey vs Hunt)

2023-01-17 Thread Will Boericke 
Not a huge fan of the 16/8 idea for this reason.  Seems like a solution in
search of a problem.



On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 10:20 AM Piaw Na(藍俊彪)  wrote:

> The drive side still has higher tension, and the way to get durable wheels
> is to get high tension without cracking the rim. The washers spread the
> load of the spoke nipple over a wider area and prevents the rim from
> cracking. With lowish spoke count wheels and dished wheels, you can easily
> exceed the rim's cracking threshold.
>
> On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 4:27 AM lconley  wrote:
>
>> So if the spoke tension is equal on both sides, why would one side need
>> washers? Makes no sense to me.
>>
>> Laing
>>
>> On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 4:44:22 PM UTC-5 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I would consider Ted Neugent's wheels:
>>> http://www.neugentcycling.com/Alloy-Wheels.html
>>>
>>> The TwoX technology (16 drive side spokes, 8 non-drive side spokes so
>>> you can have equal tension of spokes on both sides, with washers on the
>>> non-drive side so you can tension them safely without the rim cracking)
>>> makes a lot of sense to me. I've ordered a set and will report back when I
>>> get some real riding experience. I build my own wheels and they're reliable
>>> but his approach makes sense and he has the scale to get the right parts
>>> drilled correctly in this case, and I can't build anything  as light.
>>>
>>> On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 1:18:22 PM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hey there group,

 As far as pre-built, lightweight alloy wheelsets are concerned, I'm
 currently looking at 3:
 Pacenti brevet, Ritchey Zeta II classic, and Hunt but leaning towards
 the last 2. I've had experience with Ritchey's and really enjoyed them and
 their clever J-bend design, but Hunt's are better stocked. Does anyone have
 positive experience with Hunt wheels or do they lack longevity?

 I'd also be inclined to hear about your custom-built lightweight
 wheelset experiences. My goal weight is something in the 1600g range w/
 skewers.

 Cheers,
 Andrew

>>> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Lightweight wheels question: J bend vs straight pull (Ritchey vs Hunt)

2023-01-17 Thread Bill Lindsay 
I wonder when we'll see a new Gus Boots Willsen build with a 16/8 rear 
wheel?  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 7:59:15 AM UTC-8 wboe...@gmail.com wrote:

> Not a huge fan of the 16/8 idea for this reason.  Seems like a solution in 
> search of a problem.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 10:20 AM Piaw Na(藍俊彪)  wrote:
>
>> The drive side still has higher tension, and the way to get durable 
>> wheels is to get high tension without cracking the rim. The washers spread 
>> the load of the spoke nipple over a wider area and prevents the rim from 
>> cracking. With lowish spoke count wheels and dished wheels, you can easily 
>> exceed the rim's cracking threshold.
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 4:27 AM lconley  wrote:
>>
>>> So if the spoke tension is equal on both sides, why would one side need 
>>> washers? Makes no sense to me.
>>>
>>> Laing
>>>
>>> On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 4:44:22 PM UTC-5 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 I would consider Ted Neugent's wheels: 
 http://www.neugentcycling.com/Alloy-Wheels.html

 The TwoX technology (16 drive side spokes, 8 non-drive side spokes so 
 you can have equal tension of spokes on both sides, with washers on the 
 non-drive side so you can tension them safely without the rim cracking) 
 makes a lot of sense to me. I've ordered a set and will report back when I 
 get some real riding experience. I build my own wheels and they're 
 reliable 
 but his approach makes sense and he has the scale to get the right parts 
 drilled correctly in this case, and I can't build anything  as light.

 On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 1:18:22 PM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> Hey there group,  
>
> As far as pre-built, lightweight alloy wheelsets are concerned, I'm 
> currently looking at 3: 
> Pacenti brevet, Ritchey Zeta II classic, and Hunt but leaning towards 
> the last 2. I've had experience with Ritchey's and really enjoyed them 
> and 
> their clever J-bend design, but Hunt's are better stocked. Does anyone 
> have 
> positive experience with Hunt wheels or do they lack longevity? 
>
> I'd also be inclined to hear about your custom-built lightweight 
> wheelset experiences. My goal weight is something in the 1600g range w/ 
> skewers.  
>
> Cheers, 
> Andrew
>
 -- 
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>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
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>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Lightweight wheels question: J bend vs straight pull (Ritchey vs Hunt)

2023-01-17 Thread 藍俊彪 
If you feel that your wheels are already plenty strong and durable enough,
sure. But what I've discovered over the years is that hubs have gotten
their wR smaller and smaller, which reduces the bracing angle and increases
the difference in tension between drive and non-drive side wheels.

https://blog.piaw.net/2009/07/hubs.html

Back in 2009 when I did the above measurements, the Campy Record was the
hub with the smallest wR at 15.2mm, which makes the wheel much weaker ---
you pretty much needed an offset rim to have any kind of durability with
those hubs. At this point, with the industry having moved to 11-12 speed
wheels, wR has gotten worse. At this point, most hubs have less than 16mm
wR. Of course you can also make the wL smaller by introducing disc brake
rotor mounts on the non-drive side but that really doesn't solve the
problem of weaker wheels.

If you're still living with 6 speed hubs with wR of 22mm or less, I'd agree
with  you. But that's not the world I live in. So for me, anything that
makes the wheel stronger is a feature, not a bug.

On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 7:59 AM Will Boericke  wrote:

> Not a huge fan of the 16/8 idea for this reason.  Seems like a solution in
> search of a problem.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 10:20 AM Piaw Na(藍俊彪)  wrote:
>
>> The drive side still has higher tension, and the way to get durable
>> wheels is to get high tension without cracking the rim. The washers spread
>> the load of the spoke nipple over a wider area and prevents the rim from
>> cracking. With lowish spoke count wheels and dished wheels, you can easily
>> exceed the rim's cracking threshold.
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 4:27 AM lconley  wrote:
>>
>>> So if the spoke tension is equal on both sides, why would one side need
>>> washers? Makes no sense to me.
>>>
>>> Laing
>>>
>>> On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 4:44:22 PM UTC-5 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 I would consider Ted Neugent's wheels:
 http://www.neugentcycling.com/Alloy-Wheels.html

 The TwoX technology (16 drive side spokes, 8 non-drive side spokes so
 you can have equal tension of spokes on both sides, with washers on the
 non-drive side so you can tension them safely without the rim cracking)
 makes a lot of sense to me. I've ordered a set and will report back when I
 get some real riding experience. I build my own wheels and they're reliable
 but his approach makes sense and he has the scale to get the right parts
 drilled correctly in this case, and I can't build anything  as light.

 On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 1:18:22 PM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com
 wrote:

> Hey there group,
>
> As far as pre-built, lightweight alloy wheelsets are concerned, I'm
> currently looking at 3:
> Pacenti brevet, Ritchey Zeta II classic, and Hunt but leaning towards
> the last 2. I've had experience with Ritchey's and really enjoyed them and
> their clever J-bend design, but Hunt's are better stocked. Does anyone 
> have
> positive experience with Hunt wheels or do they lack longevity?
>
> I'd also be inclined to hear about your custom-built lightweight
> wheelset experiences. My goal weight is something in the 1600g range w/
> skewers.
>
> Cheers,
> Andrew
>
 --
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>>> 
>>> .
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Lightweight wheels question: J bend vs straight pull (Ritchey vs Hunt)

2023-01-17 Thread lconley 
So if the drive side spokes have higher tension, why are the washers put on 
the non-drive side spokes? Again, makes no sense to me.

Laing

On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 10:20:40 AM UTC-5 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
The drive side still has higher tension, and the way to get durable wheels 
is to get high tension without cracking the rim. The washers spread the 
load of the spoke nipple over a wider area and prevents the rim from 
cracking. With lowish spoke count wheels and dished wheels, you can easily 
exceed the rim's cracking threshold.

On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 4:27 AM lconley  wrote:
So if the spoke tension is equal on both sides, why would one side need 
washers? Makes no sense to me.

Laing

On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 4:44:22 PM UTC-5 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
I would consider Ted Neugent's wheels: 
http://www.neugentcycling.com/Alloy-Wheels.html

The TwoX technology (16 drive side spokes, 8 non-drive side spokes so you 
can have equal tension of spokes on both sides, with washers on the 
non-drive side so you can tension them safely without the rim cracking) 
makes a lot of sense to me. I've ordered a set and will report back when I 
get some real riding experience. I build my own wheels and they're reliable 
but his approach makes sense and he has the scale to get the right parts 
drilled correctly in this case, and I can't build anything  as light.

On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 1:18:22 PM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com wrote:
Hey there group,  

As far as pre-built, lightweight alloy wheelsets are concerned, I'm 
currently looking at 3: 
Pacenti brevet, Ritchey Zeta II classic, and Hunt but leaning towards the 
last 2. I've had experience with Ritchey's and really enjoyed them and 
their clever J-bend design, but Hunt's are better stocked. Does anyone have 
positive experience with Hunt wheels or do they lack longevity? 

I'd also be inclined to hear about your custom-built lightweight wheelset 
experiences. My goal weight is something in the 1600g range w/ skewers.  

Cheers, 
Andrew

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lightweight wheels question: J bend vs straight pull (Ritchey vs Hunt)

2023-01-17 Thread Andrew Turner 
Washers are put on the drive-side rear spokes. 

Andrew

On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 12:16:43 PM UTC-6 lconley wrote:

> So if the drive side spokes have higher tension, why are the washers put 
> on the non-drive side spokes? Again, makes no sense to me.
>
> Laing
>
>
> On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 10:20:40 AM UTC-5 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
> The drive side still has higher tension, and the way to get durable wheels 
> is to get high tension without cracking the rim. The washers spread the 
> load of the spoke nipple over a wider area and prevents the rim from 
> cracking. With lowish spoke count wheels and dished wheels, you can easily 
> exceed the rim's cracking threshold.
>
> On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 4:27 AM lconley  wrote:
> So if the spoke tension is equal on both sides, why would one side need 
> washers? Makes no sense to me.
>
> Laing
>
> On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 4:44:22 PM UTC-5 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
> I would consider Ted Neugent's wheels: 
> http://www.neugentcycling.com/Alloy-Wheels.html
>
> The TwoX technology (16 drive side spokes, 8 non-drive side spokes so you 
> can have equal tension of spokes on both sides, with washers on the 
> non-drive side so you can tension them safely without the rim cracking) 
> makes a lot of sense to me. I've ordered a set and will report back when I 
> get some real riding experience. I build my own wheels and they're reliable 
> but his approach makes sense and he has the scale to get the right parts 
> drilled correctly in this case, and I can't build anything  as light.
>
> On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 1:18:22 PM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
> Hey there group,  
>
> As far as pre-built, lightweight alloy wheelsets are concerned, I'm 
> currently looking at 3: 
> Pacenti brevet, Ritchey Zeta II classic, and Hunt but leaning towards the 
> last 2. I've had experience with Ritchey's and really enjoyed them and 
> their clever J-bend design, but Hunt's are better stocked. Does anyone have 
> positive experience with Hunt wheels or do they lack longevity? 
>
> I'd also be inclined to hear about your custom-built lightweight wheelset 
> experiences. My goal weight is something in the 1600g range w/ skewers.  
>
> Cheers, 
> Andrew
>
> -- 
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>  
> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lightweight wheels question: J bend vs straight pull (Ritchey vs Hunt)

2023-01-17 Thread 藍俊彪 
Andrew is correct. I made a mistake --- the washers are on the drive side,
not the non-drive side.

On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 10:20 AM Andrew Turner 
wrote:

> Washers are put on the drive-side rear spokes.
>
> Andrew
>
> On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 12:16:43 PM UTC-6 lconley wrote:
>
>> So if the drive side spokes have higher tension, why are the washers put
>> on the non-drive side spokes? Again, makes no sense to me.
>>
>> Laing
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 10:20:40 AM UTC-5 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>> The drive side still has higher tension, and the way to get durable
>> wheels is to get high tension without cracking the rim. The washers spread
>> the load of the spoke nipple over a wider area and prevents the rim from
>> cracking. With lowish spoke count wheels and dished wheels, you can easily
>> exceed the rim's cracking threshold.
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 4:27 AM lconley  wrote:
>> So if the spoke tension is equal on both sides, why would one side need
>> washers? Makes no sense to me.
>>
>> Laing
>>
>> On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 4:44:22 PM UTC-5 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>> I would consider Ted Neugent's wheels:
>> http://www.neugentcycling.com/Alloy-Wheels.html
>>
>> The TwoX technology (16 drive side spokes, 8 non-drive side spokes so you
>> can have equal tension of spokes on both sides, with washers on the
>> non-drive side so you can tension them safely without the rim cracking)
>> makes a lot of sense to me. I've ordered a set and will report back when I
>> get some real riding experience. I build my own wheels and they're reliable
>> but his approach makes sense and he has the scale to get the right parts
>> drilled correctly in this case, and I can't build anything  as light.
>>
>> On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 1:18:22 PM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>> Hey there group,
>>
>> As far as pre-built, lightweight alloy wheelsets are concerned, I'm
>> currently looking at 3:
>> Pacenti brevet, Ritchey Zeta II classic, and Hunt but leaning towards the
>> last 2. I've had experience with Ritchey's and really enjoyed them and
>> their clever J-bend design, but Hunt's are better stocked. Does anyone have
>> positive experience with Hunt wheels or do they lack longevity?
>>
>> I'd also be inclined to hear about your custom-built lightweight wheelset
>> experiences. My goal weight is something in the 1600g range w/ skewers.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Andrew
>>
>> --
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>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/ZbYSPOltKqI/unsubscribe
>> .
>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/f5654f86-76e0-4646-a346-7eb20511d895n%40googlegroups.com
>> 
>> .
>>
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> .
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Re: [RBW] Re: Lightweight wheels question: J bend vs straight pull (Ritchey vs Hunt)

2023-01-17 Thread Andrew Turner 
John at Neugent Cycles strikes me as "the real deal" with the right 
connections and knowledge of modern wheel-building practices. Plus I could 
be wrong but I think he's building these wheels himself, regardless they're 
hand-built here stateside. (He let me mail some SimWorks' raw brass nipples 
to use for the wheel build to his home address). 

I'm still rocking 8 speed cassettes so yes, it's a bummer 11 speed systems 
screw with the structural integrity of the bicycle wheel. But frankly, I'm 
not looking for these to last me 20 years. I'm a very light rider, on a 
budget, ride 90% pavement, and I wanna lose 1.5lbs off my wheels if I can! 

Bill made a joke about seeing these wheels on a Gus and I can do ya one 
better: Neugent offers a carbon tubular wheelset at a sweltering 1000g that 
I think would pair nicely with a Gus if anyone's looking to get up Mt. 
Diablo with some pep! 

- Andrew, who jokes aside is a little curious about those tubular wheels... 


On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 12:27:52 PM UTC-6 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> Andrew is correct. I made a mistake --- the washers are on the drive side, 
> not the non-drive side.
>
> On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 10:20 AM Andrew Turner  
> wrote:
>
>> Washers are put on the drive-side rear spokes. 
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 12:16:43 PM UTC-6 lconley wrote:
>>
>>> So if the drive side spokes have higher tension, why are the washers put 
>>> on the non-drive side spokes? Again, makes no sense to me.
>>>
>>> Laing
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 10:20:40 AM UTC-5 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> The drive side still has higher tension, and the way to get durable 
>>> wheels is to get high tension without cracking the rim. The washers spread 
>>> the load of the spoke nipple over a wider area and prevents the rim from 
>>> cracking. With lowish spoke count wheels and dished wheels, you can easily 
>>> exceed the rim's cracking threshold.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 4:27 AM lconley  wrote:
>>> So if the spoke tension is equal on both sides, why would one side need 
>>> washers? Makes no sense to me.
>>>
>>> Laing
>>>
>>> On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 4:44:22 PM UTC-5 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> I would consider Ted Neugent's wheels: 
>>> http://www.neugentcycling.com/Alloy-Wheels.html
>>>
>>> The TwoX technology (16 drive side spokes, 8 non-drive side spokes so 
>>> you can have equal tension of spokes on both sides, with washers on the 
>>> non-drive side so you can tension them safely without the rim cracking) 
>>> makes a lot of sense to me. I've ordered a set and will report back when I 
>>> get some real riding experience. I build my own wheels and they're reliable 
>>> but his approach makes sense and he has the scale to get the right parts 
>>> drilled correctly in this case, and I can't build anything  as light.
>>>
>>> On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 1:18:22 PM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>> Hey there group,  
>>>
>>> As far as pre-built, lightweight alloy wheelsets are concerned, I'm 
>>> currently looking at 3: 
>>> Pacenti brevet, Ritchey Zeta II classic, and Hunt but leaning towards 
>>> the last 2. I've had experience with Ritchey's and really enjoyed them and 
>>> their clever J-bend design, but Hunt's are better stocked. Does anyone have 
>>> positive experience with Hunt wheels or do they lack longevity? 
>>>
>>> I'd also be inclined to hear about your custom-built lightweight 
>>> wheelset experiences. My goal weight is something in the 1600g range w/ 
>>> skewers.  
>>>
>>> Cheers, 
>>> Andrew
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
>>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/ZbYSPOltKqI/unsubscribe
>>> .
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to 
>>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/f5654f86-76e0-4646-a346-7eb20511d895n%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>> -- 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Lightweight wheels question: J bend vs straight pull (Ritchey vs Hunt)

2023-01-17 Thread Will Boericke 
Totally agree with John's wheels.  If I didn't like building wheels so 
much, I'd buy his for sure.

As far as spoke tension imbalance, I'll reserve judgement until I have a 
problem.  Currently, I have 8 bikes with 9+ speed freehubs.  I've never had 
a spoke tension related problem with any, including wheels that I have 
abused unduly (I really shouldn't ride singletrack with 24/28 wheels, 
but).  In my sample size of 8, spoke tension is not an issue.

Will

On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 2:15:21 PM UTC-5 Andrew Turner wrote:

> John at Neugent Cycles strikes me as "the real deal" with the right 
> connections and knowledge of modern wheel-building practices. Plus I could 
> be wrong but I think he's building these wheels himself, regardless they're 
> hand-built here stateside. (He let me mail some SimWorks' raw brass nipples 
> to use for the wheel build to his home address). 
>
> I'm still rocking 8 speed cassettes so yes, it's a bummer 11 speed systems 
> screw with the structural integrity of the bicycle wheel. But frankly, I'm 
> not looking for these to last me 20 years. I'm a very light rider, on a 
> budget, ride 90% pavement, and I wanna lose 1.5lbs off my wheels if I can! 
>
> Bill made a joke about seeing these wheels on a Gus and I can do ya one 
> better: Neugent offers a carbon tubular wheelset at a sweltering 1000g that 
> I think would pair nicely with a Gus if anyone's looking to get up Mt. 
> Diablo with some pep! 
>
> - Andrew, who jokes aside is a little curious about those tubular 
> wheels... 
>
>
> On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 12:27:52 PM UTC-6 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Andrew is correct. I made a mistake --- the washers are on the drive 
>> side, not the non-drive side.
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 10:20 AM Andrew Turner  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Washers are put on the drive-side rear spokes. 
>>>
>>> Andrew
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 12:16:43 PM UTC-6 lconley wrote:
>>>
 So if the drive side spokes have higher tension, why are the washers 
 put on the non-drive side spokes? Again, makes no sense to me.

 Laing


 On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 10:20:40 AM UTC-5 pi...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 The drive side still has higher tension, and the way to get durable 
 wheels is to get high tension without cracking the rim. The washers spread 
 the load of the spoke nipple over a wider area and prevents the rim from 
 cracking. With lowish spoke count wheels and dished wheels, you can easily 
 exceed the rim's cracking threshold.

 On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 4:27 AM lconley  wrote:
 So if the spoke tension is equal on both sides, why would one side need 
 washers? Makes no sense to me.

 Laing

 On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 4:44:22 PM UTC-5 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
 I would consider Ted Neugent's wheels: 
 http://www.neugentcycling.com/Alloy-Wheels.html

 The TwoX technology (16 drive side spokes, 8 non-drive side spokes so 
 you can have equal tension of spokes on both sides, with washers on the 
 non-drive side so you can tension them safely without the rim cracking) 
 makes a lot of sense to me. I've ordered a set and will report back when I 
 get some real riding experience. I build my own wheels and they're 
 reliable 
 but his approach makes sense and he has the scale to get the right parts 
 drilled correctly in this case, and I can't build anything  as light.

 On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 1:18:22 PM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 Hey there group,  

 As far as pre-built, lightweight alloy wheelsets are concerned, I'm 
 currently looking at 3: 
 Pacenti brevet, Ritchey Zeta II classic, and Hunt but leaning towards 
 the last 2. I've had experience with Ritchey's and really enjoyed them and 
 their clever J-bend design, but Hunt's are better stocked. Does anyone 
 have 
 positive experience with Hunt wheels or do they lack longevity? 

 I'd also be inclined to hear about your custom-built lightweight 
 wheelset experiences. My goal weight is something in the 1600g range w/ 
 skewers.  

 Cheers, 
 Andrew

 -- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
 Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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 .
 To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to 
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 To view this discussion on the web visit 
 https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/f5654f86-76e0-4646-a346-7eb20511d895n%40googlegroups.com
  
 
 .

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lightweight wheels question: J bend vs straight pull (Ritchey vs Hunt)

2023-01-17 Thread 藍俊彪 
Spoke tension wasn't an issue until hubs with wR went down to ridiculous
level. On one of my recent builds I discovered that the non-drive side was
definitely too loose if I tensioned the drive side to Velocity's specs. So
I made the decision to just tension the spokes to beyond velocity's specs
for maximum tension and live with a shortened rim life. That was not a
trade off I needed to do in the past.

On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 3:16 PM Will Boericke  wrote:

> Totally agree with John's wheels.  If I didn't like building wheels so
> much, I'd buy his for sure.
>
> As far as spoke tension imbalance, I'll reserve judgement until I have a
> problem.  Currently, I have 8 bikes with 9+ speed freehubs.  I've never had
> a spoke tension related problem with any, including wheels that I have
> abused unduly (I really shouldn't ride singletrack with 24/28 wheels,
> but).  In my sample size of 8, spoke tension is not an issue.
>
> Will
>
> On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 2:15:21 PM UTC-5 Andrew Turner wrote:
>
>> John at Neugent Cycles strikes me as "the real deal" with the right
>> connections and knowledge of modern wheel-building practices. Plus I could
>> be wrong but I think he's building these wheels himself, regardless they're
>> hand-built here stateside. (He let me mail some SimWorks' raw brass nipples
>> to use for the wheel build to his home address).
>>
>> I'm still rocking 8 speed cassettes so yes, it's a bummer 11 speed
>> systems screw with the structural integrity of the bicycle wheel. But
>> frankly, I'm not looking for these to last me 20 years. I'm a very light
>> rider, on a budget, ride 90% pavement, and I wanna lose 1.5lbs off my
>> wheels if I can!
>>
>> Bill made a joke about seeing these wheels on a Gus and I can do ya one
>> better: Neugent offers a carbon tubular wheelset at a sweltering 1000g that
>> I think would pair nicely with a Gus if anyone's looking to get up Mt.
>> Diablo with some pep!
>>
>> - Andrew, who jokes aside is a little curious about those tubular
>> wheels...
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 12:27:52 PM UTC-6 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Andrew is correct. I made a mistake --- the washers are on the drive
>>> side, not the non-drive side.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 10:20 AM Andrew Turner 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Washers are put on the drive-side rear spokes.

 Andrew

 On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 12:16:43 PM UTC-6 lconley wrote:

> So if the drive side spokes have higher tension, why are the washers
> put on the non-drive side spokes? Again, makes no sense to me.
>
> Laing
>
>
> On Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 10:20:40 AM UTC-5 pi...@gmail.com
> wrote:
> The drive side still has higher tension, and the way to get durable
> wheels is to get high tension without cracking the rim. The washers spread
> the load of the spoke nipple over a wider area and prevents the rim from
> cracking. With lowish spoke count wheels and dished wheels, you can easily
> exceed the rim's cracking threshold.
>
> On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 4:27 AM lconley  wrote:
> So if the spoke tension is equal on both sides, why would one side
> need washers? Makes no sense to me.
>
> Laing
>
> On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 4:44:22 PM UTC-5 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
> I would consider Ted Neugent's wheels:
> http://www.neugentcycling.com/Alloy-Wheels.html
>
> The TwoX technology (16 drive side spokes, 8 non-drive side spokes so
> you can have equal tension of spokes on both sides, with washers on the
> non-drive side so you can tension them safely without the rim cracking)
> makes a lot of sense to me. I've ordered a set and will report back when I
> get some real riding experience. I build my own wheels and they're 
> reliable
> but his approach makes sense and he has the scale to get the right parts
> drilled correctly in this case, and I can't build anything  as light.
>
> On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 1:18:22 PM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com
> wrote:
> Hey there group,
>
> As far as pre-built, lightweight alloy wheelsets are concerned, I'm
> currently looking at 3:
> Pacenti brevet, Ritchey Zeta II classic, and Hunt but leaning towards
> the last 2. I've had experience with Ritchey's and really enjoyed them and
> their clever J-bend design, but Hunt's are better stocked. Does anyone 
> have
> positive experience with Hunt wheels or do they lack longevity?
>
> I'd also be inclined to hear about your custom-built lightweight
> wheelset experiences. My goal weight is something in the 1600g range w/
> skewers.
>
> Cheers,
> Andrew
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/ZbYSPOltKqI/un