Re: [RBW] Re: Retro Rear Der
Not to derail the happy debate, but to the OP: have you considered a Huret Duopar or EcoDuopar? On Wed, Apr 6, 2011 at 4:05 PM, rob markwardt robmar...@hotmail.com wrote: I agree about the 70 SunTours (VGT and the Luxe versions...great stuff), however, the Shimano Crane is IMO a great derailleur as well. Mine has lasted a little longer than yours...I think it's going on 40 years. Just got back from an hour ride and didn't miss a shift. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2464/3906172556_10d65013f0_z.jpg On Apr 6, 12:56 pm, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: You should have tried one in 1974. They were just so far ahead of everything else it was astonishing. And they were cheap. Dirt cheap. Five bucks a copy cheap. Better by a long way than Shimano's Crane and Titlist, in my personal experience on my own P15 Paramount - lasted much longer (the Titlist got wobbly in the pivots in 1 year, the VGT lasted 15 years) too. And light years better that Campagnolo's attempts at a touring derailleur at far less cost (and in the case of Campagnolo's first attempt, far less weight as well). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- Ken Freeman Ann Arbor, MI USA -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Retro Rear Der
Speaking of derailing (teehee)if the OP is still a list member who is asking for a derailer recommendation for a Bombadil, then I'd disagree with all of these vintage 5/6 speed derailers. I am totally convinced that a deerhead XT or a Duopar, or a Rally might work perfectly for those of you who are lauding their attributes. But I think that in part has to do with your using them on a 120mm rear end with a 5 speed freewheel. If the OP is building a Bombadil, he's got a 135mm rear end. If he's using a current Phil Freewheel hub, then he's going to have room for a 7-speed freewheel. Will any of those vintage derailers have the range of motion to even cover a 7-speed freewheel? Will they do it well? Even if he uses an old 5-speed freewheel or a 6-speed freewheel, will he have to use spacers to move the freewheel outboard to even work with the range limits of these derailers from the 1970's or 1980's? Is it really worth the effort? The rear derailer that I know will work beautifully is the couple year old Shimano Deore XT M760. It's not the least bit retro, so if a particular old-school look is what the OP is after, this derailer fails at that. If instead, he wants impeccably reliable shifting in friction mode, that derailer is unsurpassed in my opinion. You can find them new on closeout for $60. Buy two or three of them and never worry about a rear derailer for your Bombadil for the rest of your life. I've stocked up on the GS cage and the SGS cage of that derailer. The main attributes to me are: it shifts perfectly, it's available for less than retail in new condition, parts are still readily available for it, it still has an adjuster barrel. On Apr 7, 2:57 am, Ken Freeman kenfreeman...@gmail.com wrote: Not to derail the happy debate, but to the OP: have you considered a Huret Duopar or EcoDuopar? On Wed, Apr 6, 2011 at 4:05 PM, rob markwardt robmar...@hotmail.com wrote: I agree about the 70 SunTours (VGT and the Luxe versions...great stuff), however, the Shimano Crane is IMO a great derailleur as well. Mine has lasted a little longer than yours...I think it's going on 40 years. Just got back from an hour ride and didn't miss a shift. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2464/3906172556_10d65013f0_z.jpg On Apr 6, 12:56 pm, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: You should have tried one in 1974. They were just so far ahead of everything else it was astonishing. And they were cheap. Dirt cheap. Five bucks a copy cheap. Better by a long way than Shimano's Crane and Titlist, in my personal experience on my own P15 Paramount - lasted much longer (the Titlist got wobbly in the pivots in 1 year, the VGT lasted 15 years) too. And light years better that Campagnolo's attempts at a touring derailleur at far less cost (and in the case of Campagnolo's first attempt, far less weight as well). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- Ken Freeman Ann Arbor, MI USA -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Retro Rear Der
I'm totally with you on the cheap part. The cheapskate in me hates buying something that doesn't work at all. I bought an early 90's XC pro front and rear derailer, only to find that I couldn't make it take a 32 tooth cog. It was only $40 that I spent on F+R, but I'm such a cheapskate that $40 wasted drives me crazy. $60 is more than $20 that's for sure, but knowing that my stock of that derailer will work on EVERY bike in the stable is pretty useful. I use the M760 with suntour retro-friction on 3 bikes and with indexed barcons on my tandem. It frankly works better in friction than in index, but on the tandem its hard to hear the need to trim. I'm trying to train my stoker to do that for me, but it's a work in progress. Rapid rise is a new thing to me, too, and I was skeptical that it would make any difference to me, but my Hilsen with Suntour downtube shifters and rapid rise M760 GS rear derailer is without question the best shifting bike I've owned. I would not pay $120 retail for a new XT derailer, but $60 for a new three-year-old version was an investment that I was willing to make. On Apr 7, 10:39 am, Minh mgiangs...@gmail.com wrote: William, So i use my Suntour XC pro on my Hillborne (135mm PW free wheel, but only 6 speed). I have an early 90's XT (the pewter painted one, not the black plastic one) on my cruiser and that's a 130mm 7 speed cassette. my bridgestone uses a road-der (not labeled, it's silver), and that's a 126mm 6-speed. all are friction shifting and i don't have any range issues, i think if you are sticking to 7 or below you're fine with these older ones, if you're at 8 or above then i'd get a late 90's vintage r der. For me it's partly i like the old stuff, but also i'm cheap, i'd rather pay 20-30 for a beat-up r-der from the early 90's then a new modern one. also all the new rapid rise, etc stuff is un-needed when all i use them for is friction shifting. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Retro Rear Der
That said, I have SunTour Cyclone Superbe Pro rear derailleurs on both my A/R (135 mm, 12-24 7 speed f/w) and my Ritchey road bike (130 mm, 12-28 8 speed). Both function without a hiccup (friction downtube shifting in both cases). On Apr 7, 2011, at 12:39 PM, Minh wrote: So i use my Suntour XC pro on my Hillborne (135mm PW free wheel, but only 6 speed). I have an early 90's XT (the pewter painted one, not the black plastic one) on my cruiser and that's a 130mm 7 speed cassette. my bridgestone uses a road-der (not labeled, it's silver), and that's a 126mm 6-speed. all are friction shifting and i don't have any range issues, i think if you are sticking to 7 or below you're fine with these older ones, if you're at 8 or above then i'd get a late 90's vintage r der. For me it's partly i like the old stuff, but also i'm cheap, i'd rather pay 20-30 for a beat-up r-der from the early 90's then a new modern one. also all the new rapid rise, etc stuff is un-needed when all i use them for is friction shifting. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Retro Rear Der
My VGT worked on a weird 13-32 7 sp cassette, just not as well as the immediately post-curlicue Shimano long cage I replaced it with. I had a Superbe Pro rd that worked well on a 7 or 8 sp cassette. On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Tim McNamara tim...@bitstream.net wrote: That said, I have SunTour Cyclone Superbe Pro rear derailleurs on both my A/R (135 mm, 12-24 7 speed f/w) and my Ritchey road bike (130 mm, 12-28 8 speed). Both function without a hiccup (friction downtube shifting in both cases). On Apr 7, 2011, at 12:39 PM, Minh wrote: So i use my Suntour XC pro on my Hillborne (135mm PW free wheel, but only 6 speed). I have an early 90's XT (the pewter painted one, not the black plastic one) on my cruiser and that's a 130mm 7 speed cassette. my bridgestone uses a road-der (not labeled, it's silver), and that's a 126mm 6-speed. all are friction shifting and i don't have any range issues, i think if you are sticking to 7 or below you're fine with these older ones, if you're at 8 or above then i'd get a late 90's vintage r der. For me it's partly i like the old stuff, but also i'm cheap, i'd rather pay 20-30 for a beat-up r-der from the early 90's then a new modern one. also all the new rapid rise, etc stuff is un-needed when all i use them for is friction shifting. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- Patrick Moore Albuquerque, NM For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW at patrickmo...@resumespecialties.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Retro Rear Der
I've used a late version of the Rally rear derailleur (here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/37964304@N05/4880410555/in/set-72157624699133170 ) for about the last 14 years on my vintage Paramount. It works quite well. I do notice that the Rally works better with a SunTour Winner Pro or Sachs freewheel than the old Regina freewheels that were available when the Rally appeared. Jim Cloud Tucson, AZ On Apr 5, 10:23 pm, Tim McNamara tim...@bitstream.net wrote: It's a dual pivot so it does mimic the SunTours in that regard, but I have never seen a Rally that was a slant parallelogram design and that was the other key thing in improving shifting. IIRC the Rally was discontinued before the SunTour patent expired and Shimano pounced on it. I'd have to go look at the Campy timeline. The Rally derailleurs do shift better with modern cog profiles and flexible 3/32 chains; they were terrible back in the day of 5 speeds. On Apr 5, 2011, at 11:10 PM, Eric Norris wrote: Actually, mine shifts very nicely, probably because its design mimicked Japanese derailleurs of the time. This particular Rally is on my PBP bike. --Eric On Apr 5, 2011, at 9:03 PM, Tim McNamara tim...@bitstream.net wrote: On Apr 5, 2011, at 10:30 PM, Eric Norris wrote: Campagnolo Rally. Friction shifting ... Retro ... Beautiful ... Is there any other choice? Almost anything else. Those derailleurs shifted very poorly, even by Campagnolo standards of the time. Any cheap SunTour contemporary derailleur shifted much better. Campy was behind the curve in derailleur performance for years and years. Purty, though. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Retro Rear Der
I don't have a bias in this discussion but thought you would all like to visit this website for remarkable information on derailleurs: http://www.disraeligears.co.uk/Site/Home.html Good luck, Bill On Apr 6, 10:59 am, Jim Cloud cloud...@aol.com wrote: I've used a late version of the Rally rear derailleur (here:http://www.flickr.com/photos/37964304@N05/4880410555/in/set-721576246... ) for about the last 14 years on my vintage Paramount. It works quite well. I do notice that the Rally works better with a SunTour Winner Pro or Sachs freewheel than the old Regina freewheels that were available when the Rally appeared. Jim Cloud Tucson, AZ On Apr 5, 10:23 pm, Tim McNamara tim...@bitstream.net wrote: It's a dual pivot so it does mimic the SunTours in that regard, but I have never seen a Rally that was a slant parallelogram design and that was the other key thing in improving shifting. IIRC the Rally was discontinued before the SunTour patent expired and Shimano pounced on it. I'd have to go look at the Campy timeline. The Rally derailleurs do shift better with modern cog profiles and flexible 3/32 chains; they were terrible back in the day of 5 speeds. On Apr 5, 2011, at 11:10 PM, Eric Norris wrote: Actually, mine shifts very nicely, probably because its design mimicked Japanese derailleurs of the time. This particular Rally is on my PBP bike. --Eric On Apr 5, 2011, at 9:03 PM, Tim McNamara tim...@bitstream.net wrote: On Apr 5, 2011, at 10:30 PM, Eric Norris wrote: Campagnolo Rally. Friction shifting ... Retro ... Beautiful ... Is there any other choice? Almost anything else. Those derailleurs shifted very poorly, even by Campagnolo standards of the time. Any cheap SunTour contemporary derailleur shifted much better. Campy was behind the curve in derailleur performance for years and years. Purty, though.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Retro Rear Der
Thanks, that's a very interesting website! The Campagnolo Rally rear derailleur was, in my opinion, quite heavily influenced by the Shimano Crane GS. At the time, however, SunTour probably had the best functional design with their VGT. Jim Cloud Tucson, AZ On Apr 6, 8:19 am, bicyclebill b...@wbpnet.com wrote: I don't have a bias in this discussion but thought you would all like to visit this website for remarkable information on derailleurs: http://www.disraeligears.co.uk/Site/Home.html Good luck, Bill On Apr 6, 10:59 am, Jim Cloud cloud...@aol.com wrote: I've used a late version of the Rally rear derailleur (here:http://www.flickr.com/photos/37964304@N05/4880410555/in/set-721576246... ) for about the last 14 years on my vintage Paramount. It works quite well. I do notice that the Rally works better with a SunTour Winner Pro or Sachs freewheel than the old Regina freewheels that were available when the Rally appeared. Jim Cloud Tucson, AZ On Apr 5, 10:23 pm, Tim McNamara tim...@bitstream.net wrote: It's a dual pivot so it does mimic the SunTours in that regard, but I have never seen a Rally that was a slant parallelogram design and that was the other key thing in improving shifting. IIRC the Rally was discontinued before the SunTour patent expired and Shimano pounced on it. I'd have to go look at the Campy timeline. The Rally derailleurs do shift better with modern cog profiles and flexible 3/32 chains; they were terrible back in the day of 5 speeds. On Apr 5, 2011, at 11:10 PM, Eric Norris wrote: Actually, mine shifts very nicely, probably because its design mimicked Japanese derailleurs of the time. This particular Rally is on my PBP bike. --Eric On Apr 5, 2011, at 9:03 PM, Tim McNamara tim...@bitstream.net wrote: On Apr 5, 2011, at 10:30 PM, Eric Norris wrote: Campagnolo Rally. Friction shifting ... Retro ... Beautiful ... Is there any other choice? Almost anything else. Those derailleurs shifted very poorly, even by Campagnolo standards of the time. Any cheap SunTour contemporary derailleur shifted much better. Campy was behind the curve in derailleur performance for years and years. Purty, though.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Retro Rear Der
I owned and used a couple of VGTs and didn't find that they shifted all that well; perhaps I am just inexperienced in the more mundane models available at the time. I know that I was surprised at how much better an old, early '80s, just-pre-indexing Shimano long cage shifted over my bastard 7 speed when I substituted it for a VGT. The VGTs certainly looked more interesting, though. On Wed, Apr 6, 2011 at 12:47 PM, Jim Cloud cloud...@aol.com wrote: Thanks, that's a very interesting website! The Campagnolo Rally rear derailleur was, in my opinion, quite heavily influenced by the Shimano Crane GS. At the time, however, SunTour probably had the best functional design with their VGT. -- Patrick Moore Albuquerque, NM For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW at patrickmo...@resumespecialties.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Retro Rear Der
I have enjoyed the earlier Shimano XT's. I also have some earlier Suntour XC 9000's which have been fantastic friction deraileurs. They haven't been easy to find, but then you don't need many. I found a couple at a bike shop in the back and still boxed. The shop owner was happy to convert them to money. \ Best to all. david - Original Message - From: bicyclebill b...@wbpnet.com To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2011 10:19:08 AM Subject: [RBW] Re: Retro Rear Der I don't have a bias in this discussion but thought you would all like to visit this website for remarkable information on derailleurs: http://www.disraeligears.co.uk/Site/Home.html Good luck, Bill On Apr 6, 10:59 am, Jim Cloud cloud...@aol.com wrote: I've used a late version of the Rally rear derailleur (here:http://www.flickr.com/photos/37964304@N05/4880410555/in/set-721576246... ) for about the last 14 years on my vintage Paramount. It works quite well. I do notice that the Rally works better with a SunTour Winner Pro or Sachs freewheel than the old Regina freewheels that were available when the Rally appeared. Jim Cloud Tucson, AZ On Apr 5, 10:23 pm, Tim McNamara tim...@bitstream.net wrote: It's a dual pivot so it does mimic the SunTours in that regard, but I have never seen a Rally that was a slant parallelogram design and that was the other key thing in improving shifting. IIRC the Rally was discontinued before the SunTour patent expired and Shimano pounced on it. I'd have to go look at the Campy timeline. The Rally derailleurs do shift better with modern cog profiles and flexible 3/32 chains; they were terrible back in the day of 5 speeds. On Apr 5, 2011, at 11:10 PM, Eric Norris wrote: Actually, mine shifts very nicely, probably because its design mimicked Japanese derailleurs of the time. This particular Rally is on my PBP bike. --Eric On Apr 5, 2011, at 9:03 PM, Tim McNamara tim...@bitstream.net wrote: On Apr 5, 2011, at 10:30 PM, Eric Norris wrote: Campagnolo Rally. Friction shifting ... Retro ... Beautiful ... Is there any other choice? Almost anything else. Those derailleurs shifted very poorly, even by Campagnolo standards of the time. Any cheap SunTour contemporary derailleur shifted much better. Campy was behind the curve in derailleur performance for years and years. Purty, though.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Retro Rear Der
On Wed, 2011-04-06 at 12:51 -0600, PATRICK MOORE wrote: I owned and used a couple of VGTs and didn't find that they shifted all that well; perhaps I am just inexperienced in the more mundane models available at the time. I know that I was surprised at how much better an old, early '80s, just-pre-indexing Shimano long cage shifted over my bastard 7 speed when I substituted it for a VGT. The VGTs certainly looked more interesting, though. [Preface: my remarks apply to wide range freewheels. I never used close ratio freewheels, where the Campagnolo Nuovo Record ruled the roost.] You should have tried one in 1974. They were just so far ahead of everything else it was astonishing. And they were cheap. Dirt cheap. Five bucks a copy cheap. Better by a long way than Shimano's Crane and Titlist, in my personal experience on my own P15 Paramount - lasted much longer (the Titlist got wobbly in the pivots in 1 year, the VGT lasted 15 years) too. And light years better that Campagnolo's attempts at a touring derailleur at far less cost (and in the case of Campagnolo's first attempt, far less weight as well). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
