[RBW] Re: Sugino Wide/Low Dbl Crank - Chain Rub Issue

[RDS]

I think the chain is a 9 speed SRAM chain.  So, it sounds like I'll just 
need to avoid the "extreme" gear combinations which is easy enough to do. 
 Thanks for all of the help.  Since I have two different length BB's, I 
determine which provides the best chainline.

On Monday, August 3, 2015 at 8:51:07 AM UTC-4, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> make that 42/25T front...
>
> On Monday, August 3, 2015 at 7:50:37 AM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:
>>
>> I'm running an almost identical setup, 42/26T front, 12-29 9-speed rear, 
>> 111mm BB, and don't have this problem at all
>> What chain are you using?  I did have a SRAM 9-sp chain dusting the 
>> chainstay in big ring front, smallest rear cog, but eliminated that with a 
>> Wippermann chain.  
>>
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Sugino Wide/Low Dbl Crank - Chain Rub Issue

[Dave Redmon]

I solved a similar problem on a Bridgestone 450 years ago by installing 
spacers between the middle and outer chain rings on the chainwheel.. Two or 
three millimeters thick, as I recall. 

Dave in Kansas

On Friday, July 31, 2015 at 1:53:00 AM UTC-5, RDS wrote:
>
> Installed the Sugino Wide/Low double Crank (40/26).  Still in repair 
> stand.  9 Speed.  Cassette is 11/34.  When the chain is in the small ring 
> up front and the small ring in the back (yes, I realize that this might not 
> be a good gear combination to ride in), the chain is making contact with 
> the inside of the big ring.  To clarify, the chain is NOT coming in contact 
> with the FD, but the inside portion of the big chain ring.
>
> Does this mean that I need a BB that is more wide?  Or does this mean that 
> I should never have the chain in that combination?  Or ???  Any help 
> appreciated.
>
> Bike is a 59 Soma San Marcos.
>

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[RBW] Re: Sugino Wide/Low Dbl Crank - Chain Rub Issue

[William deRosset]

>When the chain is in the small ring up front and the small ring in the 
back...the chain is making contact with the inside of the big ring.  

Dear RDS,

The Wide/low is a triple crank with the outer chainring replaced with a 
chainguard. I'd be deeply surprised if the inner ring reached the small 
cogs without fouling the chain on the middle ring.

With a super-compact gear setup (like the one you're using), it is usually 
done such that the outer ring is set at the chainline (centered around 
43.5mm from the centerline of the bike in your case), and the inner is 
checked that it clears the chainstay. In practice, many will set the bike 
up such that the inner just clears the chainstay. The outer ring should 
work with the full cassette range. The inner ring is a bailout gear, and 
need only work with the half or so of the cassette closest to the 
centerline of the bike.  

By the way, almost all of the bikes (double or triple) I've owned have 
scrubbed the outer ring in the inner front /small rear combination. It is, 
as Steve pointed out, your bicycle's way of encouraging good shifting 
practices, like avoiding the big/big and small/small combinations.

Best Regards,

Will
William M. deRosset
Fort Collins, CO

On Sunday, August 2, 2015 at 9:25:05 PM UTC-6, RDS wrote:
>
> Rear spacing is 130 on the Soma San Marcos.  I have tried a 110 BB and 
> currently a 118 BB.  Same issue using both BB's.  Again, this is just in 
> the workstand setting things up.  Meaning, I have not rode the bike yet. 
>  Installed the crank on a VO Campeur and the Soma San Marcos and same issue 
> on both.  So, asking the question from ignorance as I am a novice mechanic 
> at best.  Thanks for the feedback.
>
> On Saturday, August 1, 2015 at 8:43:14 PM UTC-4, Dave Johnston wrote:
>>
>> That is the cross-chain audible warning mode. It is a feature.
>>
>> What size BB are you using and is the rear spacing 130mm or 135mm. I have 
>> not experienced this on the 3 double setups I'm using. 43/29, 40/26, an 
>> 42/28
>>
>> -Dave
>>
>> On Friday, July 31, 2015 at 2:53:00 AM UTC-4, RDS wrote:
>>>
>>> Installed the Sugino Wide/Low double Crank (40/26).  Still in repair 
>>> stand.  9 Speed.  Cassette is 11/34.  When the chain is in the small ring 
>>> up front and the small ring in the back (yes, I realize that this might not 
>>> be a good gear combination to ride in), the chain is making contact with 
>>> the inside of the big ring.  To clarify, the chain is NOT coming in contact 
>>> with the FD, but the inside portion of the big chain ring.
>>>
>>> Does this mean that I need a BB that is more wide?  Or does this mean 
>>> that I should never have the chain in that combination?  Or ???  Any help 
>>> appreciated.
>>>
>>> Bike is a 59 Soma San Marcos.
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Sugino Wide/Low Dbl Crank - Chain Rub Issue

[Ron Mc]

make that 42/25T front...

On Monday, August 3, 2015 at 7:50:37 AM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> I'm running an almost identical setup, 42/26T front, 12-29 9-speed rear, 
> 111mm BB, and don't have this problem at all
> What chain are you using?  I did have a SRAM 9-sp chain dusting the 
> chainstay in big ring front, smallest rear cog, but eliminated that with a 
> Wippermann chain.  
>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Sugino Wide/Low Dbl Crank - Chain Rub Issue

[Ron Mc]

I'm running an almost identical setup, 42/26T front, 12-29 9-speed rear, 
111mm BB, and don't have this problem at all
What chain are you using?  I did have a SRAM 9-sp chain dusting the 
chainstay in big ring front, smallest rear cog, but eliminated that with a 
Wippermann chain.  

On Sunday, August 2, 2015 at 10:25:05 PM UTC-5, RDS wrote:
>
> Rear spacing is 130 on the Soma San Marcos.  I have tried a 110 BB and 
> currently a 118 BB.  Same issue using both BB's.  Again, this is just in 
> the workstand setting things up.  Meaning, I have not rode the bike yet. 
>  Installed the crank on a VO Campeur and the Soma San Marcos and same issue 
> on both.  So, asking the question from ignorance as I am a novice mechanic 
> at best.  Thanks for the feedback.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Sugino Wide/Low Dbl Crank - Chain Rub Issue

[Michael Hechmer]

I don't see how changing the BB can do anything more than move the problem 
around.  When you get that 26 far enough out not to hit the big ring, the 
chainline for the big ring will be  too cocked to reach most of the inside 
cogs.  I'm not a big fan of the 16th tooth difference and this sounds like 
another disadvantage.  My Ram has a 44/30.  For gears below that I think a 
triple is a better choice. I run 48/34/26 on the Saluki, Trek,i & tandem, 
but think the 45/35/25 that RBW sells makes a lot of sense for those of us 
who need more help on the long, steep climbs.

Of course the cross chaining you are referring to is never a good idea. I 
would recommend avoiding it no matter what rings are on the bike.  On my 
triple I would only use the middle ring with the 1 & 9 cogs very briefly, 
to avoid a front end shift.  When riders select gear combinations they 
often focus on the range but it is also important to look  at the shifting 
pattern.  Ten & fourteen tooth differences usually yield simpler patterns 
than 12 & 16.  For triples the 10 tooth difference  makes finding the next 
gear much easier than a 16 tooth dbl., which offsets the added 
inconvenience of the triple.

Michael

On Sunday, August 2, 2015 at 11:25:05 PM UTC-4, RDS wrote:
>
> Rear spacing is 130 on the Soma San Marcos.  I have tried a 110 BB and 
> currently a 118 BB.  Same issue using both BB's.  Again, this is just in 
> the workstand setting things up.  Meaning, I have not rode the bike yet. 
>  Installed the crank on a VO Campeur and the Soma San Marcos and same issue 
> on both.  So, asking the question from ignorance as I am a novice mechanic 
> at best.  Thanks for the feedback.
>
> On Saturday, August 1, 2015 at 8:43:14 PM UTC-4, Dave Johnston wrote:
>>
>> That is the cross-chain audible warning mode. It is a feature.
>>
>> What size BB are you using and is the rear spacing 130mm or 135mm. I have 
>> not experienced this on the 3 double setups I'm using. 43/29, 40/26, an 
>> 42/28
>>
>> -Dave
>>
>> On Friday, July 31, 2015 at 2:53:00 AM UTC-4, RDS wrote:
>>>
>>> Installed the Sugino Wide/Low double Crank (40/26).  Still in repair 
>>> stand.  9 Speed.  Cassette is 11/34.  When the chain is in the small ring 
>>> up front and the small ring in the back (yes, I realize that this might not 
>>> be a good gear combination to ride in), the chain is making contact with 
>>> the inside of the big ring.  To clarify, the chain is NOT coming in contact 
>>> with the FD, but the inside portion of the big chain ring.
>>>
>>> Does this mean that I need a BB that is more wide?  Or does this mean 
>>> that I should never have the chain in that combination?  Or ???  Any help 
>>> appreciated.
>>>
>>> Bike is a 59 Soma San Marcos.
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Sugino Wide/Low Dbl Crank - Chain Rub Issue

[RDS]

Rear spacing is 130 on the Soma San Marcos.  I have tried a 110 BB and 
currently a 118 BB.  Same issue using both BB's.  Again, this is just in 
the workstand setting things up.  Meaning, I have not rode the bike yet. 
 Installed the crank on a VO Campeur and the Soma San Marcos and same issue 
on both.  So, asking the question from ignorance as I am a novice mechanic 
at best.  Thanks for the feedback.

On Saturday, August 1, 2015 at 8:43:14 PM UTC-4, Dave Johnston wrote:
>
> That is the cross-chain audible warning mode. It is a feature.
>
> What size BB are you using and is the rear spacing 130mm or 135mm. I have 
> not experienced this on the 3 double setups I'm using. 43/29, 40/26, an 
> 42/28
>
> -Dave
>
> On Friday, July 31, 2015 at 2:53:00 AM UTC-4, RDS wrote:
>>
>> Installed the Sugino Wide/Low double Crank (40/26).  Still in repair 
>> stand.  9 Speed.  Cassette is 11/34.  When the chain is in the small ring 
>> up front and the small ring in the back (yes, I realize that this might not 
>> be a good gear combination to ride in), the chain is making contact with 
>> the inside of the big ring.  To clarify, the chain is NOT coming in contact 
>> with the FD, but the inside portion of the big chain ring.
>>
>> Does this mean that I need a BB that is more wide?  Or does this mean 
>> that I should never have the chain in that combination?  Or ???  Any help 
>> appreciated.
>>
>> Bike is a 59 Soma San Marcos.
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Sugino Wide/Low Dbl Crank - Chain Rub Issue

[Dave Johnston]

That is the cross-chain audible warning mode. It is a feature.

What size BB are you using and is the rear spacing 130mm or 135mm. I have 
not experienced this on the 3 double setups I'm using. 43/29, 40/26, an 
42/28

-Dave

On Friday, July 31, 2015 at 2:53:00 AM UTC-4, RDS wrote:
>
> Installed the Sugino Wide/Low double Crank (40/26).  Still in repair 
> stand.  9 Speed.  Cassette is 11/34.  When the chain is in the small ring 
> up front and the small ring in the back (yes, I realize that this might not 
> be a good gear combination to ride in), the chain is making contact with 
> the inside of the big ring.  To clarify, the chain is NOT coming in contact 
> with the FD, but the inside portion of the big chain ring.
>
> Does this mean that I need a BB that is more wide?  Or does this mean that 
> I should never have the chain in that combination?  Or ???  Any help 
> appreciated.
>
> Bike is a 59 Soma San Marcos.
>

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[RBW] Re: Sugino Wide/Low Dbl Crank - Chain Rub Issue

[Garth]

  FWIW, the choice of specific rings and crank also will vary the distance 
between rings.  Basic Sugino rings for example, do not have the wonderful 
clearance of their OEM rings that come on their complete cranks . They are 
set and formed completely differently.  So every setup is going to be 
unique . 

  Also, there isn't just one chainline that works either.  Spec's are given 
not as absolute rules, but as the measured spec of the component with other 
like or branded components .  For a middle ring you have room to "play" so 
to speak and the chain will be fine .  


On Friday, July 31, 2015 at 8:31:58 AM UTC-4, Larry Charlton wrote:
>
> I just installed that exact drivetrain on my Yves Gomez.  Even though I 
> wouldn't ride in the small/small combination I still clear the large big 
> chain ring by a couple mm.
>   
>

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[RBW] Re: Sugino Wide/Low Dbl Crank - Chain Rub Issue

[Ron Mc]

It's always a geometry exercise.  You have two choices, pick a smaller big 
ring or a wider axle.  Look very closely at your chainline to begin with. 
 Then also question whether the single gear option is worth changing 
anything.  
















On my daughter's go-fast, she built up from an '86 Team Fuji frame, we used 
a mix of new parts and those already hanging around.  For her crankset, she 
used my old Sugino Mighty Comp, which is a 144 BCD strada clone.  Ran into 
the exact chainline problem you're having, so swapped the 52T ring for a 
50T and solved the problem.  


On Friday, July 31, 2015 at 1:53:00 AM UTC-5, RDS wrote:
>
> Installed the Sugino Wide/Low double Crank (40/26).  Still in repair 
> stand.  9 Speed.  Cassette is 11/34.  When the chain is in the small ring 
> up front and the small ring in the back (yes, I realize that this might not 
> be a good gear combination to ride in), the chain is making contact with 
> the inside of the big ring.  To clarify, the chain is NOT coming in contact 
> with the FD, but the inside portion of the big chain ring.
>
> Does this mean that I need a BB that is more wide?  Or does this mean that 
> I should never have the chain in that combination?  Or ???  Any help 
> appreciated.
>
> Bike is a 59 Soma San Marcos.
>

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[RBW] Re: Sugino Wide/Low Dbl Crank - Chain Rub Issue

[Larry Charlton]

I just installed that exact drivetrain on my Yves Gomez.  Even though I 
wouldn't ride in the small/small combination I still clear the large big 
chain ring by a couple mm.
  

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[RBW] Re: Sugino Wide/Low Dbl Crank - Chain Rub Issue

[Garth]

  Yes . . . .  ditto of what Steve highlighted on what you originally said 
, "never have the chain in this combination " !   

The 26 to me, is really more of a "bailout" ring anyways , lol .  The 40 
can use the entire cogset so the 26 would only be used when/if I really 
needed it .  Tiny rings feel rather odd to ride in anyways , at least for 
me, , fine for those times when I needed it uphill but I'd never want to 
ride it on the flats .

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