[RBW] Re: loaded handling question
I have an Atlantis with a Tubus Logo Evo rear rack. I heavily load one pannier (right hand side) frequently. Has never shimmied. I think a good deal of this shimmy business is due to folks using poor cargo systems. Yes, I know Riv promotes saddlebags, but riding with high weight isn't wise. Also, weighting small single strut platform racks isn't wise. You need cross bracing to stabilize the rack. You also need a good relationship between the rack and axles. Attaching rack struts to barrels halfway up a fork blade, or barrels halfway down a seat stay doesn't carry the weight directly to the axles, it hangs the weight on the frame. You need to take the weight to the dropouts. I strongly suspect that the relationship between the loaded bike weight (rider + cargo) and the rotating mass of the wheels is a key factor. Moving that rotating mass in or out and inch or two (trail) or moving the rider (or cargo) in or out or down with respect to the wheels (rotating mass) should resolve most issues. I think the key element is associating the weight with the axles. If you can get the weight more directly to the axles... why would the frame vibrate? On Sunday, May 31, 2015 at 9:13:17 PM UTC-5, hsmitham wrote: > > Whew! I just read all the posts, took two attempts. I've been busy! > > I have to agree with rack/load flex as at least one point of origin of > oscillation that is then transmitted through out the frame, but in the > extreme. Both my Hilsen and Atlantis have had shimmy. When riding the > Hilsen basically unloaded at speeds above 25 mph hands free I get shimmy as > soon as I squeeze the top tube with my knees it's gone! Hands on nothing. > > I had the same issue with my '03 Atlantis loaded or unloaded. Violent > shimmy even with one hand loaded and horrible at low speed climbing, lots > of drift and correction which is super fatiguing. Mike Schiller suggested > the Tange needle bearing headset, which I installed. The headset made a > huge difference and like Doug said the increased friction at the bottom > race (the upper race are normal bearings)dampens the oscillation. But this > headset will only go so far in resolving shimmy. Personally, I feel that > the ride quality inherent with Riv's tubing and geometry that we admire is > also what contributes to frame flex and consequently shimmy. In the case of > both my bikes unladen I hypothesize the shake originates at the bottom fork > race and becomes amplified though out the frame. Add a load that flexes and > you have a recipe for increased shaking. I understand that some Riv's don't > manifest these qualities therefore I attribute this to inconsistencies in > batch builds. Also, I'm certainly no expert in tubing types and geometry > but understand there are other bike builds that don't manifest these > qualities. But since we're talking about a Riv "All Rounder". > > David, I understand you want to use what you have but I'll still throw out > my suggestions even though. > > So how to mitigate these aspects and have the stability desired? Install > the Tange headset number one, next as Doug mentioned, try different load > configurations. I like a low front load even with a medium trail fork using > a Tubus low rider rack with hoop, small campee rack/basket configuration > under 3 lbs and a light rear load strapped/secured to an R14 rack. When > feasible I ditch the low rider's off road. > > In terms of cockpits, and I know lots of you love drop bars but for > comfort I like Albatross bars up high, I can be in an aggressive position > in the hooks and when I need to give my back and neck a break I can sit up > with no need to ride hands free. > > I have plans to remove & replace my Hilsen's headset and since my Atlantis > is my loaded tour rig I have plans to have a low trail fork built just to > see whether or not it makes a difference. My .02. > > Cheers, > > ~Hugh > Los Angeles, CA > > > > > > May 28, 2015 at 9:07:38 PM UTC-7, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote: > > Last week on a S240, had a great time (except for that one incident) > > but the problem was really, really bad shimmy/wobble. So bad I really > > couldn't take my hands off even for a bit at any speed. > > Rear loaded, with a little bit up front (sleeping bag). Pannier on one > > side only but not a ton of weight in there. Heaviest thing was > > probably the tent, packed up high. > > So what am I packing wrong? I don't want to get a whole new luggage > > system, nor a new bike, just want to work with what I've got and what > > you can see here: > > > https://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/17795666300/in/photostream/lightbox/ > > > Suggestions? Want to get it so I'm stable and can ride hands free, at > > least at lower <10mph speeds. Possible, or just the wrong bike for it? > > Intermediate Riv tubing, OS downtube, nothing super light, nor super > > stout, basically like a Hilsen I would guess. > > > > -- > > Cheers, >
[RBW] Re: loaded handling question
Yes, this is what I'm looking for: "Note to that on every bike I can comfortable go down hill holding my floppy hat on my head with one hand and other hand lightly on the bar with zero shimmy or even a trace..." I think I just need to pack better, I like the forward of rear axle idea. That may be why a seat bag works well, even though it's high up??? On Monday, June 1, 2015 at 10:53:25 AM UTC-7, dougP wrote: > > " If I bought an Atlantis expecting it to carry a load and it couldn't, > I'd be upset. " > > It's a matter of placement, balance, and load security. The bike is fine; > it's how we choose to use it that can cause variations in handling. Lot's > of trial & lots of error went into my learning experience. Your Sam could > likely carry 40 lbs but would have to be organized properly to do so. > Mike's comments about low placement are especially pertinent. > > dougP > > On Sunday, May 31, 2015 at 9:47:22 PM UTC-7, hangtownmatt wrote: >> >> Wow! I find this post disturbing. If I bought an Atlantis expecting it >> to carry a load and it couldn't, I'd be upset. >> >> As a side note: I participated in this years "Party at Pardee". It's a >> Northern California foothills annual metric century with about 4,500 feet >> of climbing. In a sea of carbon I rode my Sam Hillborne. As I was tooling >> along a Surly Trucker pulled up alongside and we rode together for a >> while. He complimented me on my bike and told me about some of his tours; >> both in the USA and out. This dude was seasoned, and if this ride was a >> race he probably could have won it on his unloaded Trucker. I could only >> keep pace for a while. He was a fan of Rivendell and was familiar with >> their offerings. I asked him a few questions about touring and he said the >> Trucker was a "noodle" with 60 lbs. of gear. He was disappointed. I asked >> him if he thought my Sam could handle 40 lbs. and he said "I doubt it". I >> think he was being polite. >> >> Since than, I've been thinking about the possibility of a trailer. I'd >> hate to sell the Sam because I love the ride and want to grow old with it, >> Gotta love romance. One day, I hope to haul more than 40+ lbs on a touring >> expedition, and I do not want to have to get another bike. A trailer >> probably has its own set of problems but I can see advantages also. For >> example, less weight on the primary wheels; this would seem to be >> especially significant off road. Less weight on the frame which may help >> with shimmy, and maybe most importantly, the ability to have one bike for >> recreational riding, commuting, S240's and touring. All the while, still >> making use of other previously purchased accessories such as racks, >> panniers, baskets, shopsacks, etc. >> >> For the record these are just my thoughts, and I want to clarify this >> because I really have no S240 or touring experience on a bicycle. I do, >> however, have a lot of experience touring and camping on a motorcycle. I >> think there are similarities. Motorcycles will shimmy also, but I learned >> to live with it, played with it, and had fun with it, but never considered >> a trailer. Probably because things are different when you have several >> hundred CC's between your legs at the twist of a wrist. But I'm no newbie >> to cycling either. I've been commuting on a bicycle, on average 30 - 45 >> miles per day, 5 days per week, for the most part year round, since the >> early nineties. >> >> I don't want to take this topic off track but I am interested in what >> people think of trailers, as an option, in general. At least until we hear >> the scientific results from of dougP, David and Hugh. >> >> >> On Sunday, May 31, 2015 at 7:13:17 PM UTC-7, hsmitham wrote: >>> >>> Whew! I just read all the posts, took two attempts. I've been busy! >>> >>> I have to agree with rack/load flex as at least one point of origin of >>> oscillation that is then transmitted through out the frame, but in the >>> extreme. Both my Hilsen and Atlantis have had shimmy. When riding the >>> Hilsen basically unloaded at speeds above 25 mph hands free I get shimmy as >>> soon as I squeeze the top tube with my knees it's gone! Hands on nothing. >>> >>> I had the same issue with my '03 Atlantis loaded or unloaded. Violent >>> shimmy even with one hand loaded and horrible at low speed climbing, lots >>> of drift and correction which is super fatiguing. Mike Schiller suggested >>> the Tange needle bearing headset, which I installed. The headset made a >>> huge difference and like Doug said the increased friction at the bottom >>> race (the upper race are normal bearings)dampens the oscillation. But this >>> headset will only go so far in resolving shimmy. Personally, I feel that >>> the ride quality inherent with Riv's tubing and geometry that we admire is >>> also what contributes to frame flex and consequently shimmy. In the case of >>> both my bikes
[RBW] Re: loaded handling question
" If I bought an Atlantis expecting it to carry a load and it couldn't, I'd be upset. " It's a matter of placement, balance, and load security. The bike is fine; it's how we choose to use it that can cause variations in handling. Lot's of trial & lots of error went into my learning experience. Your Sam could likely carry 40 lbs but would have to be organized properly to do so. Mike's comments about low placement are especially pertinent. dougP On Sunday, May 31, 2015 at 9:47:22 PM UTC-7, hangtownmatt wrote: > > Wow! I find this post disturbing. If I bought an Atlantis expecting it > to carry a load and it couldn't, I'd be upset. > > As a side note: I participated in this years "Party at Pardee". It's a > Northern California foothills annual metric century with about 4,500 feet > of climbing. In a sea of carbon I rode my Sam Hillborne. As I was tooling > along a Surly Trucker pulled up alongside and we rode together for a > while. He complimented me on my bike and told me about some of his tours; > both in the USA and out. This dude was seasoned, and if this ride was a > race he probably could have won it on his unloaded Trucker. I could only > keep pace for a while. He was a fan of Rivendell and was familiar with > their offerings. I asked him a few questions about touring and he said the > Trucker was a "noodle" with 60 lbs. of gear. He was disappointed. I asked > him if he thought my Sam could handle 40 lbs. and he said "I doubt it". I > think he was being polite. > > Since than, I've been thinking about the possibility of a trailer. I'd > hate to sell the Sam because I love the ride and want to grow old with it, > Gotta love romance. One day, I hope to haul more than 40+ lbs on a touring > expedition, and I do not want to have to get another bike. A trailer > probably has its own set of problems but I can see advantages also. For > example, less weight on the primary wheels; this would seem to be > especially significant off road. Less weight on the frame which may help > with shimmy, and maybe most importantly, the ability to have one bike for > recreational riding, commuting, S240's and touring. All the while, still > making use of other previously purchased accessories such as racks, > panniers, baskets, shopsacks, etc. > > For the record these are just my thoughts, and I want to clarify this > because I really have no S240 or touring experience on a bicycle. I do, > however, have a lot of experience touring and camping on a motorcycle. I > think there are similarities. Motorcycles will shimmy also, but I learned > to live with it, played with it, and had fun with it, but never considered > a trailer. Probably because things are different when you have several > hundred CC's between your legs at the twist of a wrist. But I'm no newbie > to cycling either. I've been commuting on a bicycle, on average 30 - 45 > miles per day, 5 days per week, for the most part year round, since the > early nineties. > > I don't want to take this topic off track but I am interested in what > people think of trailers, as an option, in general. At least until we hear > the scientific results from of dougP, David and Hugh. > > > On Sunday, May 31, 2015 at 7:13:17 PM UTC-7, hsmitham wrote: >> >> Whew! I just read all the posts, took two attempts. I've been busy! >> >> I have to agree with rack/load flex as at least one point of origin of >> oscillation that is then transmitted through out the frame, but in the >> extreme. Both my Hilsen and Atlantis have had shimmy. When riding the >> Hilsen basically unloaded at speeds above 25 mph hands free I get shimmy as >> soon as I squeeze the top tube with my knees it's gone! Hands on nothing. >> >> I had the same issue with my '03 Atlantis loaded or unloaded. Violent >> shimmy even with one hand loaded and horrible at low speed climbing, lots >> of drift and correction which is super fatiguing. Mike Schiller suggested >> the Tange needle bearing headset, which I installed. The headset made a >> huge difference and like Doug said the increased friction at the bottom >> race (the upper race are normal bearings)dampens the oscillation. But this >> headset will only go so far in resolving shimmy. Personally, I feel that >> the ride quality inherent with Riv's tubing and geometry that we admire is >> also what contributes to frame flex and consequently shimmy. In the case of >> both my bikes unladen I hypothesize the shake originates at the bottom fork >> race and becomes amplified though out the frame. Add a load that flexes and >> you have a recipe for increased shaking. I understand that some Riv's don't >> manifest these qualities therefore I attribute this to inconsistencies in >> batch builds. Also, I'm certainly no expert in tubing types and geometry >> but understand there are other bike builds that don't manifest these >> qualities. But since we're talking about a Riv "All Ro
[RBW] Re: loaded handling question
Try putting your knee against the top tube. I know for me at some speed shimmy can be induced or begin and my knee calms it right down. That being said.. my theories.. right wrong ... shrug.. just me thinking.. 1. On my larger framed bike with larger tires I get shimmy free handed... non of my wife bikes shimmy at 61cm even with load. Betty Foy, Atlantis, and Roadeo 2. Tires.. the bigger the tire the more chance of shimmy.. so balance the tires... (ok that's a joke but a thought for me) based on AHH and Rambouiet that with light fast tires 32mm from compass no shimmy at all... 3. when loaded on my Bombadil I can ride no handed at lower speeds with 70lbs of gear including handlebar bag with 35mm dslr in it, 9lb tent in front basket and 24lbs of gear in the lowrider front panniers... at lower speeds... Note to that on every bike I can comfortable go down hill holding my floppy hat on my head with one hand and other hand lightly on the bar with zero shimmy or even a trace... As for the comment about a Hilbourne not being able to carry 40lbs I say that it's not my experience as several friends of mine have them and tour with them successfully. That's my two cents with my experience... shrug.. Kelly On Thursday, May 28, 2015 at 11:07:38 PM UTC-5, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote: > > Last week on a S240, had a great time (except for that one incident) > but the problem was really, really bad shimmy/wobble. So bad I really > couldn't take my hands off even for a bit at any speed. > Rear loaded, with a little bit up front (sleeping bag). Pannier on one > side only but not a ton of weight in there. Heaviest thing was > probably the tent, packed up high. > So what am I packing wrong? I don't want to get a whole new luggage > system, nor a new bike, just want to work with what I've got and what > you can see here: > > https://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/17795666300/in/photostream/lightbox/ > > Suggestions? Want to get it so I'm stable and can ride hands free, at > least at lower <10mph speeds. Possible, or just the wrong bike for it? > Intermediate Riv tubing, OS downtube, nothing super light, nor super > stout, basically like a Hilsen I would guess. > > -- > Cheers, > David > > Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace > > "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: loaded handling question
Doug: Shops have tools specific to the job. I do nearly all my own work but have the shop change out the headset. I just take things apart down to removing the fork. I made an appt for a day when they expected to be slow, walked in & they R&R the headset while I waited & watched. All they had to do was pop the old bits out of the frame & press in the new ones. IIRC they charged me about $30, far less than the cost of my buying tools I would only use every few years. dougP On Monday, June 1, 2015 at 5:57:12 AM UTC-7, Doug Williams wrote: > > I just got a new Homer and love it. I did get a small amount of shimmy > when I had my SaddleSack Large fully loaded on an R14 rack with no other > weight anywhere else. But really...I have a Mark's front rack so there is > no excuse for that. I added a basket on the front so I'll put some weight > there if the shimmy returns. But now I wish I had popped for the > NeedleBlasteur headset. Maybe I'll get a NeedleBlasteur now anyway. But I > don't want to ding up my Hilsen trying to install it. How tough is it for > someone of only basic mechanical expertise to swap out a headset? > > Doug > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: loaded handling question
Doug, Any reputable bike shop will swap your headset for about $25~30. YMMV. ~Hugh “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.” ― Albert Einstein http://velocipedemusings.blogspot.com/ On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 5:57 AM, Doug Williams wrote: > I just got a new Homer and love it. I did get a small amount of shimmy > when I had my SaddleSack Large fully loaded on an R14 rack with no other > weight anywhere else. But really...I have a Mark's front rack so there is > no excuse for that. I added a basket on the front so I'll put some weight > there if the shimmy returns. But now I wish I had popped for the > NeedleBlasteur headset. Maybe I'll get a NeedleBlasteur now anyway. But I > don't want to ding up my Hilsen trying to install it. How tough is it for > someone of only basic mechanical expertise to swap out a headset? > > Doug > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/TdDx6oGiy-Y/unsubscribe > . > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: loaded handling question
On Monday, June 1, 2015 at 8:57:12 AM UTC-4, Doug Williams wrote: > > I just got a new Homer and love it. I did get a small amount of shimmy > when I had my SaddleSack Large fully loaded on an R14 rack with no other > weight anywhere else. But really...I have a Mark's front rack so there is > no excuse for that. I added a basket on the front so I'll put some weight > there if the shimmy returns. But now I wish I had popped for the > NeedleBlasteur headset. Maybe I'll get a NeedleBlasteur now anyway. But I > don't want to ding up my Hilsen trying to install it. How tough is it for > someone of only basic mechanical expertise to swap out a headset? > > Doug > Changing out a headset is a pretty easy job if you have the right tools, but potentially messy without them.To do it right, for removing the old headset you'll want a crown race puller, a cup remover, and a mallet or light hammer. For installation, you'll want a crown race setter. For installing the cups you can just use a piece of 5/8" threaded rod, two nuts, and some big washers. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: loaded handling question
I just got a new Homer and love it. I did get a small amount of shimmy when I had my SaddleSack Large fully loaded on an R14 rack with no other weight anywhere else. But really...I have a Mark's front rack so there is no excuse for that. I added a basket on the front so I'll put some weight there if the shimmy returns. But now I wish I had popped for the NeedleBlasteur headset. Maybe I'll get a NeedleBlasteur now anyway. But I don't want to ding up my Hilsen trying to install it. How tough is it for someone of only basic mechanical expertise to swap out a headset? Doug -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: loaded handling question
the other "thing" that no one has mentioned is that two different frames of the same model may behave differently as regards shimmy. Slight differences in frame alignment and or assembly and even rider pedaling style can cause shimmy. So you do everything mentioned above to correct it but you may never completely get rid of it. ~mike > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: loaded handling question
Seems like getting the load down as low as possible will be the best option. Low riders in the front for heavier loads, a small saddle bag and front bag for lighter items. The IRD headset will help as well. But even with all of the above you may still get some shimmy. Sometimes you may have to stop and rearrange things in your bags for better balance. Unless you have a really stiff bike riding with one pannier is a sure way to cause shimmy. One of the good things about the bikepacking frame bags is it puts weight lower and centered, so those are options too. ~mike > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: loaded handling question
I want to reiterate that my bike bike rides rock-solid at any speed hands free. I can corner on it, change lanes, whatever and am fine. It's just adding S240 weight to it that it freaks out. Hopefully that can be mitigated if not eliminated with some simple changes in set up and/or packing technique! On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 9:47 PM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote: > Wow! I find this post disturbing. If I bought an Atlantis expecting it to > carry a load and it couldn't, I'd be upset. > > As a side note: I participated in this years "Party at Pardee". It's a > Northern California foothills annual metric century with about 4,500 feet of > climbing. In a sea of carbon I rode my Sam Hillborne. As I was tooling > along a Surly Trucker pulled up alongside and we rode together for a while. > He complimented me on my bike and told me about some of his tours; both in > the USA and out. This dude was seasoned, and if this ride was a race he > probably could have won it on his unloaded Trucker. I could only keep pace > for a while. He was a fan of Rivendell and was familiar with their > offerings. I asked him a few questions about touring and he said the > Trucker was a "noodle" with 60 lbs. of gear. He was disappointed. I asked > him if he thought my Sam could handle 40 lbs. and he said "I doubt it". I > think he was being polite. > > Since than, I've been thinking about the possibility of a trailer. I'd hate > to sell the Sam because I love the ride and want to grow old with it, Gotta > love romance. One day, I hope to haul more than 40+ lbs on a touring > expedition, and I do not want to have to get another bike. A trailer > probably has its own set of problems but I can see advantages also. For > example, less weight on the primary wheels; this would seem to be especially > significant off road. Less weight on the frame which may help with shimmy, > and maybe most importantly, the ability to have one bike for recreational > riding, commuting, S240's and touring. All the while, still making use of > other previously purchased accessories such as racks, panniers, baskets, > shopsacks, etc. > > For the record these are just my thoughts, and I want to clarify this > because I really have no S240 or touring experience on a bicycle. I do, > however, have a lot of experience touring and camping on a motorcycle. I > think there are similarities. Motorcycles will shimmy also, but I learned > to live with it, played with it, and had fun with it, but never considered a > trailer. Probably because things are different when you have several > hundred CC's between your legs at the twist of a wrist. But I'm no newbie > to cycling either. I've been commuting on a bicycle, on average 30 - 45 > miles per day, 5 days per week, for the most part year round, since the > early nineties. > > I don't want to take this topic off track but I am interested in what people > think of trailers, as an option, in general. At least until we hear the > scientific results from of dougP, David and Hugh. > > > On Sunday, May 31, 2015 at 7:13:17 PM UTC-7, hsmitham wrote: >> >> Whew! I just read all the posts, took two attempts. I've been busy! >> >> I have to agree with rack/load flex as at least one point of origin of >> oscillation that is then transmitted through out the frame, but in the >> extreme. Both my Hilsen and Atlantis have had shimmy. When riding the Hilsen >> basically unloaded at speeds above 25 mph hands free I get shimmy as soon as >> I squeeze the top tube with my knees it's gone! Hands on nothing. >> >> I had the same issue with my '03 Atlantis loaded or unloaded. Violent >> shimmy even with one hand loaded and horrible at low speed climbing, lots of >> drift and correction which is super fatiguing. Mike Schiller suggested the >> Tange needle bearing headset, which I installed. The headset made a huge >> difference and like Doug said the increased friction at the bottom race (the >> upper race are normal bearings)dampens the oscillation. But this headset >> will only go so far in resolving shimmy. Personally, I feel that the ride >> quality inherent with Riv's tubing and geometry that we admire is also what >> contributes to frame flex and consequently shimmy. In the case of both my >> bikes unladen I hypothesize the shake originates at the bottom fork race and >> becomes amplified though out the frame. Add a load that flexes and you have >> a recipe for increased shaking. I understand that some Riv's don't manifest >> these qualities therefore I attribute this to inconsistencies in batch >> builds. Also, I'm certainly no expert in tubing types and geometry but >> understand there are other bike builds that don't manifest these qualities. >> But since we're talking about a Riv "All Rounder". >> >> David, I understand you want to use what you have but I'll still throw out >> my suggestions even though. >> >> So how to mitigate these aspects and have the stability desired? Install >> the Ta
[RBW] Re: loaded handling question
Wow! I find this post disturbing. If I bought an Atlantis expecting it to carry a load and it couldn't, I'd be upset. As a side note: I participated in this years "Party at Pardee". It's a Northern California foothills annual metric century with about 4,500 feet of climbing. In a sea of carbon I rode my Sam Hillborne. As I was tooling along a Surly Trucker pulled up alongside and we rode together for a while. He complimented me on my bike and told me about some of his tours; both in the USA and out. This dude was seasoned, and if this ride was a race he probably could have won it on his unloaded Trucker. I could only keep pace for a while. He was a fan of Rivendell and was familiar with their offerings. I asked him a few questions about touring and he said the Trucker was a "noodle" with 60 lbs. of gear. He was disappointed. I asked him if he thought my Sam could handle 40 lbs. and he said "I doubt it". I think he was being polite. Since than, I've been thinking about the possibility of a trailer. I'd hate to sell the Sam because I love the ride and want to grow old with it, Gotta love romance. One day, I hope to haul more than 40+ lbs on a touring expedition, and I do not want to have to get another bike. A trailer probably has its own set of problems but I can see advantages also. For example, less weight on the primary wheels; this would seem to be especially significant off road. Less weight on the frame which may help with shimmy, and maybe most importantly, the ability to have one bike for recreational riding, commuting, S240's and touring. All the while, still making use of other previously purchased accessories such as racks, panniers, baskets, shopsacks, etc. For the record these are just my thoughts, and I want to clarify this because I really have no S240 or touring experience on a bicycle. I do, however, have a lot of experience touring and camping on a motorcycle. I think there are similarities. Motorcycles will shimmy also, but I learned to live with it, played with it, and had fun with it, but never considered a trailer. Probably because things are different when you have several hundred CC's between your legs at the twist of a wrist. But I'm no newbie to cycling either. I've been commuting on a bicycle, on average 30 - 45 miles per day, 5 days per week, for the most part year round, since the early nineties. I don't want to take this topic off track but I am interested in what people think of trailers, as an option, in general. At least until we hear the scientific results from of dougP, David and Hugh. On Sunday, May 31, 2015 at 7:13:17 PM UTC-7, hsmitham wrote: > > Whew! I just read all the posts, took two attempts. I've been busy! > > I have to agree with rack/load flex as at least one point of origin of > oscillation that is then transmitted through out the frame, but in the > extreme. Both my Hilsen and Atlantis have had shimmy. When riding the > Hilsen basically unloaded at speeds above 25 mph hands free I get shimmy as > soon as I squeeze the top tube with my knees it's gone! Hands on nothing. > > I had the same issue with my '03 Atlantis loaded or unloaded. Violent > shimmy even with one hand loaded and horrible at low speed climbing, lots > of drift and correction which is super fatiguing. Mike Schiller suggested > the Tange needle bearing headset, which I installed. The headset made a > huge difference and like Doug said the increased friction at the bottom > race (the upper race are normal bearings)dampens the oscillation. But this > headset will only go so far in resolving shimmy. Personally, I feel that > the ride quality inherent with Riv's tubing and geometry that we admire is > also what contributes to frame flex and consequently shimmy. In the case of > both my bikes unladen I hypothesize the shake originates at the bottom fork > race and becomes amplified though out the frame. Add a load that flexes and > you have a recipe for increased shaking. I understand that some Riv's don't > manifest these qualities therefore I attribute this to inconsistencies in > batch builds. Also, I'm certainly no expert in tubing types and geometry > but understand there are other bike builds that don't manifest these > qualities. But since we're talking about a Riv "All Rounder". > > David, I understand you want to use what you have but I'll still throw out > my suggestions even though. > > So how to mitigate these aspects and have the stability desired? Install > the Tange headset number one, next as Doug mentioned, try different load > configurations. I like a low front load even with a medium trail fork using > a Tubus low rider rack with hoop, small campee rack/basket configuration > under 3 lbs and a light rear load strapped/secured to an R14 rack. When > feasible I ditch the low rider's off road. > > In terms of cockpits, and I know lots of you love drop bars but for > comfort I l
Re: [RBW] Re: loaded handling question
Hey Doug, PM me with your thoughts. ~Hugh On Sun, May 31, 2015, 7:41 PM dougP wrote: > Hugh: > > In the interest of science, further testing required. David & I are > contemplating doing some tests with his bike. If we can coordinate it, you > might want to join us with your Atlantis. I did not know your Atlantis was > also an '03. I would guess ours are from the same batch or really close. > My s.n. is 519; take a look under your BB to see what yours is. I have a > couple of ideas that may be worth exploring. We're thinking about the > weekend of June 14 when REI has their big gear sale in Tustin. > > dougP > > > On Sunday, May 31, 2015 at 7:13:17 PM UTC-7, hsmitham wrote: >> >> Whew! I just read all the posts, took two attempts. I've been busy! >> >> I have to agree with rack/load flex as at least one point of origin of >> oscillation that is then transmitted through out the frame, but in the >> extreme. Both my Hilsen and Atlantis have had shimmy. When riding the >> Hilsen basically unloaded at speeds above 25 mph hands free I get shimmy as >> soon as I squeeze the top tube with my knees it's gone! Hands on nothing. >> >> I had the same issue with my '03 Atlantis loaded or unloaded. Violent >> shimmy even with one hand loaded and horrible at low speed climbing, lots >> of drift and correction which is super fatiguing. Mike Schiller suggested >> the Tange needle bearing headset, which I installed. The headset made a >> huge difference and like Doug said the increased friction at the bottom >> race (the upper race are normal bearings)dampens the oscillation. But this >> headset will only go so far in resolving shimmy. Personally, I feel that >> the ride quality inherent with Riv's tubing and geometry that we admire is >> also what contributes to frame flex and consequently shimmy. In the case of >> both my bikes unladen I hypothesize the shake originates at the bottom fork >> race and becomes amplified though out the frame. Add a load that flexes and >> you have a recipe for increased shaking. I understand that some Riv's don't >> manifest these qualities therefore I attribute this to inconsistencies in >> batch builds. Also, I'm certainly no expert in tubing types and geometry >> but understand there are other bike builds that don't manifest these >> qualities. But since we're talking about a Riv "All Rounder". >> >> David, I understand you want to use what you have but I'll still throw >> out my suggestions even though. >> >> So how to mitigate these aspects and have the stability desired? Install >> the Tange headset number one, next as Doug mentioned, try different load >> configurations. I like a low front load even with a medium trail fork using >> a Tubus low rider rack with hoop, small campee rack/basket configuration >> under 3 lbs and a light rear load strapped/secured to an R14 rack. When >> feasible I ditch the low rider's off road. >> >> In terms of cockpits, and I know lots of you love drop bars but for >> comfort I like Albatross bars up high, I can be in an aggressive position >> in the hooks and when I need to give my back and neck a break I can sit up >> with no need to ride hands free. >> >> I have plans to remove & replace my Hilsen's headset and since my >> Atlantis is my loaded tour rig I have plans to have a low trail fork built >> just to see whether or not it makes a difference. My .02. >> >> Cheers, >> >> ~Hugh >> Los Angeles, CA >> >> >> >> >> >> May 28, 2015 at 9:07:38 PM UTC-7, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote: >> > Last week on a S240, had a great time (except for that one incident) >> > but the problem was really, really bad shimmy/wobble. So bad I really >> > couldn't take my hands off even for a bit at any speed. >> > Rear loaded, with a little bit up front (sleeping bag). Pannier on one >> > side only but not a ton of weight in there. Heaviest thing was >> > probably the tent, packed up high. >> > So what am I packing wrong? I don't want to get a whole new luggage >> > system, nor a new bike, just want to work with what I've got and what >> > you can see here: >> > >> https://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/17795666300/in/photostream/lightbox/ >> > Suggestions? Want to get it so I'm stable and can ride hands free, at >> > least at lower <10mph speeds. Possible, or just the wrong bike for it? >> > Intermediate Riv tubing, OS downtube, nothing super light, nor super >> > stout, basically like a Hilsen I would guess. >> > >> > -- >> > Cheers, >> > David >> > >> > Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace >> > >> > "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/TdDx6oGiy-Y/unsubscribe > . > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to rb
[RBW] Re: loaded handling question
Hugh: In the interest of science, further testing required. David & I are contemplating doing some tests with his bike. If we can coordinate it, you might want to join us with your Atlantis. I did not know your Atlantis was also an '03. I would guess ours are from the same batch or really close. My s.n. is 519; take a look under your BB to see what yours is. I have a couple of ideas that may be worth exploring. We're thinking about the weekend of June 14 when REI has their big gear sale in Tustin. dougP On Sunday, May 31, 2015 at 7:13:17 PM UTC-7, hsmitham wrote: > > Whew! I just read all the posts, took two attempts. I've been busy! > > I have to agree with rack/load flex as at least one point of origin of > oscillation that is then transmitted through out the frame, but in the > extreme. Both my Hilsen and Atlantis have had shimmy. When riding the > Hilsen basically unloaded at speeds above 25 mph hands free I get shimmy as > soon as I squeeze the top tube with my knees it's gone! Hands on nothing. > > I had the same issue with my '03 Atlantis loaded or unloaded. Violent > shimmy even with one hand loaded and horrible at low speed climbing, lots > of drift and correction which is super fatiguing. Mike Schiller suggested > the Tange needle bearing headset, which I installed. The headset made a > huge difference and like Doug said the increased friction at the bottom > race (the upper race are normal bearings)dampens the oscillation. But this > headset will only go so far in resolving shimmy. Personally, I feel that > the ride quality inherent with Riv's tubing and geometry that we admire is > also what contributes to frame flex and consequently shimmy. In the case of > both my bikes unladen I hypothesize the shake originates at the bottom fork > race and becomes amplified though out the frame. Add a load that flexes and > you have a recipe for increased shaking. I understand that some Riv's don't > manifest these qualities therefore I attribute this to inconsistencies in > batch builds. Also, I'm certainly no expert in tubing types and geometry > but understand there are other bike builds that don't manifest these > qualities. But since we're talking about a Riv "All Rounder". > > David, I understand you want to use what you have but I'll still throw out > my suggestions even though. > > So how to mitigate these aspects and have the stability desired? Install > the Tange headset number one, next as Doug mentioned, try different load > configurations. I like a low front load even with a medium trail fork using > a Tubus low rider rack with hoop, small campee rack/basket configuration > under 3 lbs and a light rear load strapped/secured to an R14 rack. When > feasible I ditch the low rider's off road. > > In terms of cockpits, and I know lots of you love drop bars but for > comfort I like Albatross bars up high, I can be in an aggressive position > in the hooks and when I need to give my back and neck a break I can sit up > with no need to ride hands free. > > I have plans to remove & replace my Hilsen's headset and since my Atlantis > is my loaded tour rig I have plans to have a low trail fork built just to > see whether or not it makes a difference. My .02. > > Cheers, > > ~Hugh > Los Angeles, CA > > > > > > May 28, 2015 at 9:07:38 PM UTC-7, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote: > > Last week on a S240, had a great time (except for that one incident) > > but the problem was really, really bad shimmy/wobble. So bad I really > > couldn't take my hands off even for a bit at any speed. > > Rear loaded, with a little bit up front (sleeping bag). Pannier on one > > side only but not a ton of weight in there. Heaviest thing was > > probably the tent, packed up high. > > So what am I packing wrong? I don't want to get a whole new luggage > > system, nor a new bike, just want to work with what I've got and what > > you can see here: > > > https://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/17795666300/in/photostream/lightbox/ > > > Suggestions? Want to get it so I'm stable and can ride hands free, at > > least at lower <10mph speeds. Possible, or just the wrong bike for it? > > Intermediate Riv tubing, OS downtube, nothing super light, nor super > > stout, basically like a Hilsen I would guess. > > > > -- > > Cheers, > > David > > > > Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace > > > > "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: loaded handling question
Whew! I just read all the posts, took two attempts. I've been busy! I have to agree with rack/load flex as at least one point of origin of oscillation that is then transmitted through out the frame, but in the extreme. Both my Hilsen and Atlantis have had shimmy. When riding the Hilsen basically unloaded at speeds above 25 mph hands free I get shimmy as soon as I squeeze the top tube with my knees it's gone! Hands on nothing. I had the same issue with my '03 Atlantis loaded or unloaded. Violent shimmy even with one hand loaded and horrible at low speed climbing, lots of drift and correction which is super fatiguing. Mike Schiller suggested the Tange needle bearing headset, which I installed. The headset made a huge difference and like Doug said the increased friction at the bottom race (the upper race are normal bearings)dampens the oscillation. But this headset will only go so far in resolving shimmy. Personally, I feel that the ride quality inherent with Riv's tubing and geometry that we admire is also what contributes to frame flex and consequently shimmy. In the case of both my bikes unladen I hypothesize the shake originates at the bottom fork race and becomes amplified though out the frame. Add a load that flexes and you have a recipe for increased shaking. I understand that some Riv's don't manifest these qualities therefore I attribute this to inconsistencies in batch builds. Also, I'm certainly no expert in tubing types and geometry but understand there are other bike builds that don't manifest these qualities. But since we're talking about a Riv "All Rounder". David, I understand you want to use what you have but I'll still throw out my suggestions even though. So how to mitigate these aspects and have the stability desired? Install the Tange headset number one, next as Doug mentioned, try different load configurations. I like a low front load even with a medium trail fork using a Tubus low rider rack with hoop, small campee rack/basket configuration under 3 lbs and a light rear load strapped/secured to an R14 rack. When feasible I ditch the low rider's off road. In terms of cockpits, and I know lots of you love drop bars but for comfort I like Albatross bars up high, I can be in an aggressive position in the hooks and when I need to give my back and neck a break I can sit up with no need to ride hands free. I have plans to remove & replace my Hilsen's headset and since my Atlantis is my loaded tour rig I have plans to have a low trail fork built just to see whether or not it makes a difference. My .02. Cheers, ~Hugh Los Angeles, CA May 28, 2015 at 9:07:38 PM UTC-7, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote: > Last week on a S240, had a great time (except for that one incident) > but the problem was really, really bad shimmy/wobble. So bad I really > couldn't take my hands off even for a bit at any speed. > Rear loaded, with a little bit up front (sleeping bag). Pannier on one > side only but not a ton of weight in there. Heaviest thing was > probably the tent, packed up high. > So what am I packing wrong? I don't want to get a whole new luggage > system, nor a new bike, just want to work with what I've got and what > you can see here: > https://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/17795666300/in/photostream/lightbox/ > Suggestions? Want to get it so I'm stable and can ride hands free, at > least at lower <10mph speeds. Possible, or just the wrong bike for it? > Intermediate Riv tubing, OS downtube, nothing super light, nor super > stout, basically like a Hilsen I would guess. > > -- > Cheers, > David > > Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace > > "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: loaded handling question
This is interesting, and illustrates the difficulty of dealing with shimmy. I use the Tubus Duo low rider (no hoop, just 2 loose pieces) and have loaded it with Ortleib large panniers (10-12 lbs each). Above that is a Nitto small front rack supporting an Acorn boxy rando bag (the early, smaller one), usually stuffed full if traveling. No rear bag, just a seat wedge with small tools, tube, etc.. This set-up has never shimmied. A couple of possible variables from Clayton's set-up: my Atlantis has a 40 mm trail fork (stock is around 65 mm) and the IRD roller bearing headset. Depending on who you believe, lowering trail either magnifies or reduces the tendency to shimmy (helpful, no?) but consensus is the roller bearing headset has more drag & so may dampen oscillation, helping reduce shimmy. I agree with Clayton's hypothesis about rack wiggle & fork twist. Since shimmy is an oscillation, minor movements could set up major reactions. Like Clayton, my ride was more stable once I started loading the front, even with my old junky, definitely flexy aluminum low rider, stock fork & headset. I did still encounter shimmy. The randomness of it spurred me on to look for a reliable solution. dougP On Saturday, May 30, 2015 at 8:32:07 AM UTC-7, Clayton wrote: > > I was troubled by severe shimmy on my old Atlantis. I had a Nitto small >> front rack with a Tubus low rider. No matter how I changed the weight, it >> persisted. I bought a Nitto big front rack from Riv and the shimmy >> disappeared. For years I resisted the voices that said to load the front. >> Once I did, no prob. I have a theory that the Tubus front rack and others >> of the ilk, are too flexible laterally (not the rears, they are >> triangulated). Between the fork and rack oscillation dance, wibblewobbles >> raise their heads and make one nervous. The load yaws on the flexible rack, >> twisting the fork a bit, which hits the right oscillation frequency >> and. > > > Claytonious Q > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: loaded handling question
I'm preferring to work with what I got, and if I just improve it I'll be happy. But if nothing works, open to upgrades. Just seems that I have a decent bike, a good rack, nice panniers, a Hoss seatbag, so some combination of the above should work!!! On Sat, May 30, 2015 at 9:24 AM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote: > Sorry David. I just reread your post and see you only want suggestions that > work with what you already have. Good luck with that. > > > On Saturday, May 30, 2015 at 8:51:57 AM UTC-7, hangtownmatt wrote: >> >> Since nobody else has suggested it, I'll throw this out for consideration >> - How about a trailer? Here's one I'd consider and might be perfect for >> your adventures: >> >> http://www.extrawheel.com/en/3/bicycle_trailer/ >> >> https://www.biketrailershop.com/extrawheel-trailers-c-140.html >> >> >> >> On Thursday, May 28, 2015 at 9:07:38 PM UTC-7, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> Last week on a S240, had a great time (except for that one incident) >>> but the problem was really, really bad shimmy/wobble. So bad I really >>> couldn't take my hands off even for a bit at any speed. >>> Rear loaded, with a little bit up front (sleeping bag). Pannier on one >>> side only but not a ton of weight in there. Heaviest thing was >>> probably the tent, packed up high. >>> So what am I packing wrong? I don't want to get a whole new luggage >>> system, nor a new bike, just want to work with what I've got and what >>> you can see here: >>> >>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/17795666300/in/photostream/lightbox/ >>> Suggestions? Want to get it so I'm stable and can ride hands free, at >>> least at lower <10mph speeds. Possible, or just the wrong bike for it? >>> Intermediate Riv tubing, OS downtube, nothing super light, nor super >>> stout, basically like a Hilsen I would guess. >>> >>> -- >>> Cheers, >>> David >>> >>> Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace >>> >>> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Cheers, David Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: loaded handling question
Sorry David. I just reread your post and see you only want suggestions that work with what you already have. Good luck with that. On Saturday, May 30, 2015 at 8:51:57 AM UTC-7, hangtownmatt wrote: > > Since nobody else has suggested it, I'll throw this out for consideration > - How about a trailer? Here's one I'd consider and might be perfect for > your adventures: > > http://www.extrawheel.com/en/3/bicycle_trailer/ > > https://www.biketrailershop.com/extrawheel-trailers-c-140.html > > > > On Thursday, May 28, 2015 at 9:07:38 PM UTC-7, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> Last week on a S240, had a great time (except for that one incident) >> but the problem was really, really bad shimmy/wobble. So bad I really >> couldn't take my hands off even for a bit at any speed. >> Rear loaded, with a little bit up front (sleeping bag). Pannier on one >> side only but not a ton of weight in there. Heaviest thing was >> probably the tent, packed up high. >> So what am I packing wrong? I don't want to get a whole new luggage >> system, nor a new bike, just want to work with what I've got and what >> you can see here: >> >> https://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/17795666300/in/photostream/lightbox/ >> >> Suggestions? Want to get it so I'm stable and can ride hands free, at >> least at lower <10mph speeds. Possible, or just the wrong bike for it? >> Intermediate Riv tubing, OS downtube, nothing super light, nor super >> stout, basically like a Hilsen I would guess. >> >> -- >> Cheers, >> David >> >> Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace >> >> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: loaded handling question
Since nobody else has suggested it, I'll throw this out for consideration - How about a trailer? Here's one I'd consider and might be perfect for your adventures: http://www.extrawheel.com/en/3/bicycle_trailer/ https://www.biketrailershop.com/extrawheel-trailers-c-140.html On Thursday, May 28, 2015 at 9:07:38 PM UTC-7, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote: > > Last week on a S240, had a great time (except for that one incident) > but the problem was really, really bad shimmy/wobble. So bad I really > couldn't take my hands off even for a bit at any speed. > Rear loaded, with a little bit up front (sleeping bag). Pannier on one > side only but not a ton of weight in there. Heaviest thing was > probably the tent, packed up high. > So what am I packing wrong? I don't want to get a whole new luggage > system, nor a new bike, just want to work with what I've got and what > you can see here: > > https://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/17795666300/in/photostream/lightbox/ > > Suggestions? Want to get it so I'm stable and can ride hands free, at > least at lower <10mph speeds. Possible, or just the wrong bike for it? > Intermediate Riv tubing, OS downtube, nothing super light, nor super > stout, basically like a Hilsen I would guess. > > -- > Cheers, > David > > Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace > > "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: loaded handling question
> > I was troubled by severe shimmy on my old Atlantis. I had a Nitto small > front rack with a Tubus low rider. No matter how I changed the weight, it > persisted. I bought a Nitto big front rack from Riv and the shimmy > disappeared. For years I resisted the voices that said to load the front. > Once I did, no prob. I have a theory that the Tubus front rack and others > of the ilk, are too flexible laterally (not the rears, they are > triangulated). Between the fork and rack oscillation dance, wibblewobbles > raise their heads and make one nervous. The load yaws on the flexible rack, > twisting the fork a bit, which hits the right oscillation frequency > and. Claytonious Q -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: loaded handling question
I'm going to fool around with some different dry-run set up ups and see how it goes. Rear bag only, rear bag w/ small front load, rear panniers only, and rear pannies with just a little up front. Also going to try the saddle a bit forward and see if that does anything. Hands free isn't the ultimate goal, as I'll settle for steady and smooth! On Friday, May 29, 2015 at 2:45:52 PM UTC-7, joe b. wrote: > > Sure, definitely try some different loading strategies with panniers, but > I think other posters area too quick to dismiss a big saddlebag. It's the > only rear load that doesn't have leverage on the rear triangle (as long as > it's mostly hanging from the saddle, with any rack or support just > providing a little stability). > > As shown above, it's the only way I've found to carry a 30+/- lb load on a > Riv similar to David's and still be able to ride shimmy free, including the > all important to some of us no hands. Second best had been the big > saddlebag plus front low riders. Rear rack loads even by themselves don't > work for me on this bike. Keep in mind both David and I ride taller frames, > so we may be pushing the boundaries of light tubing more than those on > smaller frames. > > Dr. Moore can carry a bushel of watermelons on the rear of an al dente > noodle, all while sipping a glass of cheap merlot. I've not been able to > reach his state of rear-biased nirvana so far. But, the wheel is ever > turning > > Good info all around. > > Best, > joe broach > pdx or > On May 29, 2015 2:23 PM, "Mike Schiller" > wrote: > >> Sounds like the option you should try is either front or rear panniers >> with only a light front top load ( no basket) up high. Keeping the weight >> as low as possible. >> >> Every bike/load is different base on how you pack. Big loads up high are >> a shimmy cause in most cases. >> >> I remember riding down the NorCal coast on my Soma Double Cross with >> everything in rear panniers and the bike tracked like a laser beam. >> >> ~mike >> Carlsbad Ca. >> >> >>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com . >> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com >> . >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: loaded handling question
Sure, definitely try some different loading strategies with panniers, but I think other posters area too quick to dismiss a big saddlebag. It's the only rear load that doesn't have leverage on the rear triangle (as long as it's mostly hanging from the saddle, with any rack or support just providing a little stability). As shown above, it's the only way I've found to carry a 30+/- lb load on a Riv similar to David's and still be able to ride shimmy free, including the all important to some of us no hands. Second best had been the big saddlebag plus front low riders. Rear rack loads even by themselves don't work for me on this bike. Keep in mind both David and I ride taller frames, so we may be pushing the boundaries of light tubing more than those on smaller frames. Dr. Moore can carry a bushel of watermelons on the rear of an al dente noodle, all while sipping a glass of cheap merlot. I've not been able to reach his state of rear-biased nirvana so far. But, the wheel is ever turning Good info all around. Best, joe broach pdx or On May 29, 2015 2:23 PM, "Mike Schiller" wrote: > Sounds like the option you should try is either front or rear panniers > with only a light front top load ( no basket) up high. Keeping the weight > as low as possible. > > Every bike/load is different base on how you pack. Big loads up high are > a shimmy cause in most cases. > > I remember riding down the NorCal coast on my Soma Double Cross with > everything in rear panniers and the bike tracked like a laser beam. > > ~mike > Carlsbad Ca. > > >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: loaded handling question
Sounds like the option you should try is either front or rear panniers with only a light front top load ( no basket) up high. Keeping the weight as low as possible. Every bike/load is different base on how you pack. Big loads up high are a shimmy cause in most cases. I remember riding down the NorCal coast on my Soma Double Cross with everything in rear panniers and the bike tracked like a laser beam. ~mike Carlsbad Ca. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: loaded handling question
I'm okay w/ no hands (I guess), but hope that moving loads around can reduce the necessity for tight two-handed grip! On Friday, May 29, 2015 at 11:01:39 AM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote: > > One handed becomes iffy for me above 30mph or on rougher roads, but > otherwise is easy. Sound like two things may need to shift: your load and > dropping no-hands from your expectations? > > With abandon, > Patrick > > On Friday, May 29, 2015 at 11:54:44 AM UTC-6, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> Yeah, I don't mean riding for for miles no-hands, but it's nice to sit up >> and take hands off occasionally. But above and beyond that, I have to ride >> seriously grabbing the bars with both hands when loaded. I really can't >> even ride one-handed without shimmy starting. It's pretty severe, and not a >> whole bunch of fun. >> >> On Friday, May 29, 2015 at 10:45:45 AM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote: >>> >>> For me loaded and hands free are mutually exclusive, but have dismissed >>> myself from having a strong voice in this because of my vertigo. Even if I >>> was comfortable riding no-hands with a load, the amount of correction >>> required when something goes off is huge compared with an unloaded bike >>> with is much more responsive. >>> >>> I'd say it's equivalent to a semi-trucker who refuses to use low gear to >>> never speed up heading down a mountain pass. Bad idea. >>> >>> With abandon, >>> Patrick >>> >>> On Friday, May 29, 2015 at 11:32:44 AM UTC-6, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote: Because I like riding with no hands. Shouldn't I be able to when loaded? Are they mutually exclusive? Serious question. >>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: loaded handling question
One handed becomes iffy for me above 30mph or on rougher roads, but otherwise is easy. Sound like two things may need to shift: your load and dropping no-hands from your expectations? With abandon, Patrick On Friday, May 29, 2015 at 11:54:44 AM UTC-6, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote: > > Yeah, I don't mean riding for for miles no-hands, but it's nice to sit up > and take hands off occasionally. But above and beyond that, I have to ride > seriously grabbing the bars with both hands when loaded. I really can't > even ride one-handed without shimmy starting. It's pretty severe, and not a > whole bunch of fun. > > On Friday, May 29, 2015 at 10:45:45 AM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote: >> >> For me loaded and hands free are mutually exclusive, but have dismissed >> myself from having a strong voice in this because of my vertigo. Even if I >> was comfortable riding no-hands with a load, the amount of correction >> required when something goes off is huge compared with an unloaded bike >> with is much more responsive. >> >> I'd say it's equivalent to a semi-trucker who refuses to use low gear to >> never speed up heading down a mountain pass. Bad idea. >> >> With abandon, >> Patrick >> >> On Friday, May 29, 2015 at 11:32:44 AM UTC-6, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> Because I like riding with no hands. Shouldn't I be able to when loaded? >>> Are they mutually exclusive? Serious question. >>> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: loaded handling question
Yeah, I don't mean riding for for miles no-hands, but it's nice to sit up and take hands off occasionally. But above and beyond that, I have to ride seriously grabbing the bars with both hands when loaded. I really can't even ride one-handed without shimmy starting. It's pretty severe, and not a whole bunch of fun. On Friday, May 29, 2015 at 10:45:45 AM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote: > > For me loaded and hands free are mutually exclusive, but have dismissed > myself from having a strong voice in this because of my vertigo. Even if I > was comfortable riding no-hands with a load, the amount of correction > required when something goes off is huge compared with an unloaded bike > with is much more responsive. > > I'd say it's equivalent to a semi-trucker who refuses to use low gear to > never speed up heading down a mountain pass. Bad idea. > > With abandon, > Patrick > > On Friday, May 29, 2015 at 11:32:44 AM UTC-6, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> Because I like riding with no hands. Shouldn't I be able to when loaded? >> Are they mutually exclusive? Serious question. >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: loaded handling question
IMHO they are almost :-) mutually exclusive given the number of factors that come into play when riding an unladen bike, no handed. When you add weight, in unequal amounts, at different points, all over the bike, stabilty with no hands would not be an expectation I would have of any bike. I would guess it is more an issue of practice riding no hands and shifting your own body weight to accomodate the ever changing situation. Seems like you would be working harder than just keeping your hands on the bars or stopping to stretch if need be. On Friday, May 29, 2015 at 1:32:44 PM UTC-4, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote: > Because I like riding with no hands. Shouldn't I be able to when loaded? > Are they mutually exclusive? Serious question. > > My bike rides absolutely brilliantly when not loaded, but the four or so > times a year I ride loaded, it's pretty miserable. As I don't do it a lot, > I don't want to get a whole new bike. I have the big Nitto rack in back, > just seems like it should work as is. If I'm doing something wrong, I'd > like to fix it! > > > > On Friday, May 29, 2015 at 8:34:05 AM UTC-7, Brian Campbell wrote: >> >> Why are people trying to ride loaded bikes with no hands? >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: loaded handling question
For me loaded and hands free are mutually exclusive, but have dismissed myself from having a strong voice in this because of my vertigo. Even if I was comfortable riding no-hands with a load, the amount of correction required when something goes off is huge compared with an unloaded bike with is much more responsive. I'd say it's equivalent to a semi-trucker who refuses to use low gear to never speed up heading down a mountain pass. Bad idea. With abandon, Patrick On Friday, May 29, 2015 at 11:32:44 AM UTC-6, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote: > > Because I like riding with no hands. Shouldn't I be able to when loaded? > Are they mutually exclusive? Serious question. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: loaded handling question
I'm not upset if I can't ride no hands, laden or not; it's just a minor annoyance. But no, the two are not exclusive. My '94 rode rock solid and rock steady no-hands at 8 mph and at 18 mph with 30 lb in an unsupported Camper Longflap; and the '94 was quicker handling than the later ones, with 42.4 cm stays. (Fly rack.) The Ram was almost as stable; Fly. The '73 Motobecane: again, stable, no shimmy, Fly; and this with a flexy frame. The '03, less so -- perhaps because the rack is custom and not Tubus? That said, the '94, like the '03 would shimmy from time to time, but not regularly under heavy rear load; I know that when I switched from 26 X 1" Turbos to 26 X 1.35" Kojaks, the '03 started to shimmy (no load as well as loads of varying weights, rear). On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 11:32 AM, cyclotour...@gmail.com < cyclotour...@gmail.com> wrote: > Because I like riding with no hands. Shouldn't I be able to when loaded? > Are they mutually exclusive? Serious question. > > My bike rides absolutely brilliantly when not loaded, but the four or so > times a year I ride loaded, it's pretty miserable. As I don't do it a lot, > I don't want to get a whole new bike. I have the big Nitto rack in back, > just seems like it should work as is. If I'm doing something wrong, I'd > like to fix it! > > > > On Friday, May 29, 2015 at 8:34:05 AM UTC-7, Brian Campbell wrote: >> >> Why are people trying to ride loaded bikes with no hands? >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten * *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu *Kinei hos eromenon. It moves as the being-loved. *Aristotle *The Love that moves the Sun and all the other stars. *Dante -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: loaded handling question
Because I like riding with no hands. Shouldn't I be able to when loaded? Are they mutually exclusive? Serious question. My bike rides absolutely brilliantly when not loaded, but the four or so times a year I ride loaded, it's pretty miserable. As I don't do it a lot, I don't want to get a whole new bike. I have the big Nitto rack in back, just seems like it should work as is. If I'm doing something wrong, I'd like to fix it! On Friday, May 29, 2015 at 8:34:05 AM UTC-7, Brian Campbell wrote: > > Why are people trying to ride loaded bikes with no hands? > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: loaded handling question
Forgot the Ram: again, Fly, 40 lb, no shimmy.
On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 11:20 AM, Patrick Moore wrote:
> As an inveterate rear-loader, of several Rivendells ('94 Road, '03 Road,
> Sam Hill) and many other bikes, I haven't found that rear loads even up to
> 40 lb cause shimmy, while even modest front loads -- over 5 but no more
> than 10 lb -- make the front wheels harder to control.
>
> Perhaps shimmy associated with rear loads may be caused by flexing racks?
> I know that the (11 1/2 oz Tubus Fly is girder-steady; not to mention the
> Cargo
>
> On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 10:39 AM, Andy.M wrote:
>
>> It has been my experience with the Atlantis that any high rear load adds
>> a considerable amount of shimmy. The best loaded handling for me I have
>> found to be lower on the front. To me, the low front load also feels like
>> it adds a bit of stability to the bike, like its more solidly on the
>> ground.
>> -Andy
>>
>>
>> On Friday, May 29, 2015 at 9:13:16 AM UTC-7, Ryan Fleming wrote:
>>>
>>> At the risk of being a smartass, I was wondering that too. :)
>>>
>>> Maybe, David, your AR would work better except that those pesky M-bars
>>> won't allow you to have the Wald basket. I have a funny feeling that a Sam
>>> or a Hunq or an Atlantis would shimmy less when loaded this way. Jan and
>>> others have commented that some of the needle bearing headsets can mitigate
>>> shimmy.
>>>
>>> But I remember in the late eighties when I toured loaded I used front
>>> panniers on low-riders as well as rear panniers with my tent and sleeping
>>> bag lashed to the top of a Blackburn rack with Coughlin straps (look a lot
>>> like the Irish straps Riv sells). Bikes I rode were my PX-10 (not ideal
>>> gearing and I did have shimmy due to loosening headset and a 531 frame and
>>> later a Cannondale T something - which really handled well loaded. But back
>>> then the conventional wisdom was to load low and balanced
>>> On Friday, May 29, 2015 at 10:34:05 AM UTC-5, Brian Campbell wrote:
>>>
Why are people trying to ride loaded bikes with no hands?
>>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> Other professional writing services.
> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten
>
> *
> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
> circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and
> individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu
>
> *Kinei hos eromenon. It moves as the being-loved. *Aristotle
>
> *The Love that moves the Sun and all the other stars. *Dante
>
--
Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
Other professional writing services.
http://www.resumespecialties.com/
www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten
*
*The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and
individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu
*Kinei hos eromenon. It moves as the being-loved. *Aristotle
*The Love that moves the Sun and all the other stars. *Dante
--
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Re: [RBW] Re: loaded handling question
As an inveterate rear-loader, of several Rivendells ('94 Road, '03 Road,
Sam Hill) and many other bikes, I haven't found that rear loads even up to
40 lb cause shimmy, while even modest front loads -- over 5 but no more
than 10 lb -- make the front wheels harder to control.
Perhaps shimmy associated with rear loads may be caused by flexing racks? I
know that the (11 1/2 oz Tubus Fly is girder-steady; not to mention the
Cargo
On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 10:39 AM, Andy.M wrote:
> It has been my experience with the Atlantis that any high rear load adds a
> considerable amount of shimmy. The best loaded handling for me I have
> found to be lower on the front. To me, the low front load also feels like
> it adds a bit of stability to the bike, like its more solidly on the
> ground.
> -Andy
>
>
> On Friday, May 29, 2015 at 9:13:16 AM UTC-7, Ryan Fleming wrote:
>>
>> At the risk of being a smartass, I was wondering that too. :)
>>
>> Maybe, David, your AR would work better except that those pesky M-bars
>> won't allow you to have the Wald basket. I have a funny feeling that a Sam
>> or a Hunq or an Atlantis would shimmy less when loaded this way. Jan and
>> others have commented that some of the needle bearing headsets can mitigate
>> shimmy.
>>
>> But I remember in the late eighties when I toured loaded I used front
>> panniers on low-riders as well as rear panniers with my tent and sleeping
>> bag lashed to the top of a Blackburn rack with Coughlin straps (look a lot
>> like the Irish straps Riv sells). Bikes I rode were my PX-10 (not ideal
>> gearing and I did have shimmy due to loosening headset and a 531 frame and
>> later a Cannondale T something - which really handled well loaded. But back
>> then the conventional wisdom was to load low and balanced
>> On Friday, May 29, 2015 at 10:34:05 AM UTC-5, Brian Campbell wrote:
>>
>>> Why are people trying to ride loaded bikes with no hands?
>>>
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[RBW] Re: loaded handling question
It has been my experience with the Atlantis that any high rear load adds a considerable amount of shimmy. The best loaded handling for me I have found to be lower on the front. To me, the low front load also feels like it adds a bit of stability to the bike, like its more solidly on the ground. -Andy On Friday, May 29, 2015 at 9:13:16 AM UTC-7, Ryan Fleming wrote: > > At the risk of being a smartass, I was wondering that too. :) > > Maybe, David, your AR would work better except that those pesky M-bars > won't allow you to have the Wald basket. I have a funny feeling that a Sam > or a Hunq or an Atlantis would shimmy less when loaded this way. Jan and > others have commented that some of the needle bearing headsets can mitigate > shimmy. > > But I remember in the late eighties when I toured loaded I used front > panniers on low-riders as well as rear panniers with my tent and sleeping > bag lashed to the top of a Blackburn rack with Coughlin straps (look a lot > like the Irish straps Riv sells). Bikes I rode were my PX-10 (not ideal > gearing and I did have shimmy due to loosening headset and a 531 frame and > later a Cannondale T something - which really handled well loaded. But back > then the conventional wisdom was to load low and balanced > On Friday, May 29, 2015 at 10:34:05 AM UTC-5, Brian Campbell wrote: > >> Why are people trying to ride loaded bikes with no hands? >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: loaded handling question
At the risk of being a smartass, I was wondering that too. :) Maybe, David, your AR would work better except that those pesky M-bars won't allow you to have the Wald basket. I have a funny feeling that a Sam or a Hunq or an Atlantis would shimmy less when loaded this way. Jan and others have commented that some of the needle bearing headsets can mitigate shimmy. But I remember in the late eighties when I toured loaded I used front panniers on low-riders as well as rear panniers with my tent and sleeping bag lashed to the top of a Blackburn rack with Coughlin straps (look a lot like the Irish straps Riv sells). Bikes I rode were my PX-10 (not ideal gearing and I did have shimmy due to loosening headset and a 531 frame and later a Cannondale T something - which really handled well loaded. But back then the conventional wisdom was to load low and balanced On Friday, May 29, 2015 at 10:34:05 AM UTC-5, Brian Campbell wrote: > Why are people trying to ride loaded bikes with no hands? > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: loaded handling question
Why are people trying to ride loaded bikes with no hands? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: loaded handling question
Obviously my vertigo has a profound effect on my experience here, but I can take my hands off very briefly with a minimal day ride load, but never with a bikepacking load. The Hunqapillar rides very smooth with a bikepacking load with rear panniers, tent/bag/pad on top and food bag on the front. Questions/ideas: -- how balanced is the weight of your pannier load, one side to the other and even front to back? -- perhaps try a small front rack and put a wee bit of weight right above the tire, well anchored like in a trunksack and see how it does? You've likely seen my bikepacking set up, but here it is: https://www.flickr.com/photos/32311885@N07/16786949014/in/album-72157652026645308/ With abandon, Patrick On Thursday, May 28, 2015 at 10:07:38 PM UTC-6, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote: > > Last week on a S240, had a great time (except for that one incident) > but the problem was really, really bad shimmy/wobble. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: loaded handling question
I get shimmy on my Atlantis with a full Nelson Long flap (cool band name) with no front load. I must be doing something wrong On Friday, May 29, 2015 at 12:07:38 AM UTC-4, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote: > > Last week on a S240, had a great time (except for that one incident) > but the problem was really, really bad shimmy/wobble. So bad I really > couldn't take my hands off even for a bit at any speed. > Rear loaded, with a little bit up front (sleeping bag). Pannier on one > side only but not a ton of weight in there. Heaviest thing was > probably the tent, packed up high. > So what am I packing wrong? I don't want to get a whole new luggage > system, nor a new bike, just want to work with what I've got and what > you can see here: > > https://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/17795666300/in/photostream/lightbox/ > > Suggestions? Want to get it so I'm stable and can ride hands free, at > least at lower <10mph speeds. Possible, or just the wrong bike for it? > Intermediate Riv tubing, OS downtube, nothing super light, nor super > stout, basically like a Hilsen I would guess. > > -- > Cheers, > David > > Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace > > "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
