Re: [RBW] Re: Do you Rapid Rise? (Share pics and thoughts)

[Luke Hendrickson]

Yes!!! It looks wonderful. How’re you liking the action/shifting?
On Saturday, October 8, 2022 at 3:15:49 PM UTC-7 J Imler wrote:

> [image: 2E786F40-6A76-461D-9773-2626E7E9D69E.jpeg]
> HAD to have it. Necessitated a two pulley donor to be functional.
> On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 7:44:20 PM UTC-7 Luke Hendrickson 
> wrote:
>
>> Ha! Loving the three pulley love on here. Shorter cage with the chain 
>> wrap of long cage rds. Super fun. 
>>
>> On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 8:52:14 AM UTC-7 Pancake wrote:
>>
>>> Exactly right Eric, that photo shows the third pulley just disengaged 
>>> because it’s in the tallest gear on the cassette and middle chainring. Less 
>>> slack in the chain means the chain is pulling the derailer mechanism 
>>> forward enough to disengage the third pulley. But when you shift down the 
>>> third pulley engages and makes it act like a longer cage derailler, eating 
>>> up slack and avoiding chain slap while all the while keeping the lowest 
>>> pulleys far off the ground. It’s clever! But Dad needs a read rack and 
>>> panniers to make grocery trips easier so the bike will be in my garage 
>>> again soon - I’ll take some closer up photos in different positions then. 
>>> I do wonder ho/if  a significantly larger pulley could do something 
>>> similar but that’s above my pay grade. 
>>> Abe
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 8:33:01 AM UTC-7 eric...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Nice one, Pancake. Dang, those mechs are wild. Looks like the smallest 
 pulley wheel isn't engaged in this position?

 On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 10:26:37 AM UTC-4 Pancake wrote:

> [image: D7524129-0A85-4CDF-8977-5CB6316AF1EA.jpeg]Built up a Nishiki 
> Bel Air for my dad as a grocery getter … including the triple pulley read 
> derailer:
>
> On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 3:58:36 AM UTC-7 J J wrote:
>
>> [image: SunTour 3 pulley system.jpg]
>>
>> A few months ago I saw a SunTour XC triple pulley RD for the first 
>> time. Pictured here. It was on an old mountain bike that hangs high 
>> on a wall in a DC bike shop. I was confused and intrigued. The 
>> extremely ornery, loud, and hilarious shop foreman, who was helping a 
>> customer, noticed me staring at it. He said, “Cool, huh?” 
>>
>> I nodded and pointed to the XC. “It has three….?” 
>>
>> Shouting over the customer the mechanic said: “Exactly, bro. Three. A 
>> triple. It’s wild. That was my daily ride since forever. But you see the 
>> seat tube? Some asshole took a crowbar to the lock and crushed it. 
>> Couldn’t 
>> even steal it properly. It’s too far gone to repair. So I hung it for 
>> posterity. And before you ask, no, I will not sell you that derailleur.” 
>> Then he turned back to the customer.  
>> On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 6:56:36 PM UTC-4 Garth wrote:
>>
>>> I'd buy one of those cool looking Suntour Rd's any day ! Man I miss 
>>> Suntour stuff.  I have no need or desire for a reverse direction RD 
>>> though. 
>>> On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 5:46:37 PM UTC-4 Luke Hendrickson 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 It’s super cool!

 On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 6:20:03 AM UTC-7 
 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Wow, Luke, I've never seen one of those. I had to check out 
> Disraeli Gears 
> for
>  
> more info. 
>
> "So what in heaven’s name is this? SunTour were wrestling with the 
> demands of the new mountain bikes, with their triple chainsets and 
> huge 
> gear capacities. They hated the very long pulley cages, which had 
> limited 
> ground clearance and irritating chain slap - so they invented the ‘3 
> Pulley 
> System’. With one brilliant stroke it gave huge capacity with a 
> relatively 
> short cage. Ground clearance was restored, chain slap minimised.
>
> Fantastic - except for the fact that it looked so weird that, as 
> you cycled by, dogs barked, babies cried and your friends laughed. At 
> you, 
> not with you. Sales were lamentably low."
>
> On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 2:14:50 AM UTC-4 Luke 
> Hendrickson wrote:
>
>> [image: 40650634-AA3B-48BE-A3F3-09AC3632AB79.jpeg]
>>
>> I shall most likely be buying this as my friend (Jim of Merry 
>> Sales) is involved, I want to support Riv, and this will officially 
>> be the 
>> only good-looking contemporary rd made. That said, I happen to love 
>> what 
>> I’m running rn: a three pulley Suntour XC from about 1986.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, September 26, 2022 at 1:40:59 PM UTC-7 J J wrote:
>>
>>>

Re: [RBW] Re: Do you Rapid Rise? (Share pics and thoughts)

[Pancake]

Exactly right Eric, that photo shows the third pulley just disengaged 
because it’s in the tallest gear on the cassette and middle chainring. Less 
slack in the chain means the chain is pulling the derailer mechanism 
forward enough to disengage the third pulley. But when you shift down the 
third pulley engages and makes it act like a longer cage derailler, eating 
up slack and avoiding chain slap while all the while keeping the lowest 
pulleys far off the ground. It’s clever! But Dad needs a read rack and 
panniers to make grocery trips easier so the bike will be in my garage 
again soon - I’ll take some closer up photos in different positions then. 
I do wonder ho/if  a significantly larger pulley could do something similar 
but that’s above my pay grade. 
Abe

On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 8:33:01 AM UTC-7 eric...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Nice one, Pancake. Dang, those mechs are wild. Looks like the smallest 
> pulley wheel isn't engaged in this position?
>
> On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 10:26:37 AM UTC-4 Pancake wrote:
>
>> [image: D7524129-0A85-4CDF-8977-5CB6316AF1EA.jpeg]Built up a Nishiki Bel 
>> Air for my dad as a grocery getter … including the triple pulley read 
>> derailer:
>>
>> On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 3:58:36 AM UTC-7 J J wrote:
>>
>>> [image: SunTour 3 pulley system.jpg]
>>>
>>> A few months ago I saw a SunTour XC triple pulley RD for the first time. 
>>> Pictured 
>>> here. It was on an old mountain bike that hangs high on a wall in a DC 
>>> bike shop. I was confused and intrigued. The extremely ornery, loud, 
>>> and hilarious shop foreman, who was helping a customer, noticed me staring 
>>> at it. He said, “Cool, huh?” 
>>>
>>> I nodded and pointed to the XC. “It has three….?” 
>>>
>>> Shouting over the customer the mechanic said: “Exactly, bro. Three. A 
>>> triple. It’s wild. That was my daily ride since forever. But you see the 
>>> seat tube? Some asshole took a crowbar to the lock and crushed it. Couldn’t 
>>> even steal it properly. It’s too far gone to repair. So I hung it for 
>>> posterity. And before you ask, no, I will not sell you that derailleur.” 
>>> Then he turned back to the customer.  
>>> On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 6:56:36 PM UTC-4 Garth wrote:
>>>
 I'd buy one of those cool looking Suntour Rd's any day ! Man I miss 
 Suntour stuff.  I have no need or desire for a reverse direction RD 
 though. 
 On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 5:46:37 PM UTC-4 Luke Hendrickson 
 wrote:

> It’s super cool!
>
> On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 6:20:03 AM UTC-7 eric...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Wow, Luke, I've never seen one of those. I had to check out Disraeli 
>> Gears 
>> for
>>  
>> more info. 
>>
>> "So what in heaven’s name is this? SunTour were wrestling with the 
>> demands of the new mountain bikes, with their triple chainsets and huge 
>> gear capacities. They hated the very long pulley cages, which had 
>> limited 
>> ground clearance and irritating chain slap - so they invented the ‘3 
>> Pulley 
>> System’. With one brilliant stroke it gave huge capacity with a 
>> relatively 
>> short cage. Ground clearance was restored, chain slap minimised.
>>
>> Fantastic - except for the fact that it looked so weird that, as you 
>> cycled by, dogs barked, babies cried and your friends laughed. At you, 
>> not 
>> with you. Sales were lamentably low."
>>
>> On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 2:14:50 AM UTC-4 Luke Hendrickson 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> [image: 40650634-AA3B-48BE-A3F3-09AC3632AB79.jpeg]
>>>
>>> I shall most likely be buying this as my friend (Jim of Merry Sales) 
>>> is involved, I want to support Riv, and this will officially be the 
>>> only 
>>> good-looking contemporary rd made. That said, I happen to love what I’m 
>>> running rn: a three pulley Suntour XC from about 1986.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, September 26, 2022 at 1:40:59 PM UTC-7 J J wrote:
>>>
 Thanks for sending the excerpts, Eric! Super interesting to read 
 Grant’s thoughts so early on. That was the seed that led to him to 
 the wild idea of designing and then manufacturing his own low normal 
 RDs.

 On Monday, September 26, 2022 at 4:10:07 PM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> I was reading some Rivendell Readers this weekend and encountered 
> a few mentions of Rapid Rise mechs. Interesting to see Grant's takes 
> when 
> Rapid Rise was new and in production. 
>
> These are from RR 33 (Fall 2004) and RR 22 (Winter 2001). 
>
> [image: IMG_2712 2.jpg]
>
> [image: IMG_2711 2.jpg]
>


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Re: [RBW] Re: Do you Rapid Rise? (Share pics and thoughts)

[Eric Marth]

Nice one, Pancake. Dang, those mechs are wild. Looks like the smallest 
pulley wheel isn't engaged in this position?

On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 10:26:37 AM UTC-4 Pancake wrote:

> [image: D7524129-0A85-4CDF-8977-5CB6316AF1EA.jpeg]Built up a Nishiki Bel 
> Air for my dad as a grocery getter … including the triple pulley read 
> derailer:
>
> On Wednesday, September 28, 2022 at 3:58:36 AM UTC-7 J J wrote:
>
>> [image: SunTour 3 pulley system.jpg]
>>
>> A few months ago I saw a SunTour XC triple pulley RD for the first time. 
>> Pictured 
>> here. It was on an old mountain bike that hangs high on a wall in a DC 
>> bike shop. I was confused and intrigued. The extremely ornery, loud, and 
>> hilarious shop foreman, who was helping a customer, noticed me staring at 
>> it. He said, “Cool, huh?” 
>>
>> I nodded and pointed to the XC. “It has three….?” 
>>
>> Shouting over the customer the mechanic said: “Exactly, bro. Three. A 
>> triple. It’s wild. That was my daily ride since forever. But you see the 
>> seat tube? Some asshole took a crowbar to the lock and crushed it. Couldn’t 
>> even steal it properly. It’s too far gone to repair. So I hung it for 
>> posterity. And before you ask, no, I will not sell you that derailleur.” 
>> Then he turned back to the customer.  
>> On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 6:56:36 PM UTC-4 Garth wrote:
>>
>>> I'd buy one of those cool looking Suntour Rd's any day ! Man I miss 
>>> Suntour stuff.  I have no need or desire for a reverse direction RD though. 
>>> On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 5:46:37 PM UTC-4 Luke Hendrickson 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 It’s super cool!

 On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 6:20:03 AM UTC-7 eric...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> Wow, Luke, I've never seen one of those. I had to check out Disraeli 
> Gears 
> for
>  
> more info. 
>
> "So what in heaven’s name is this? SunTour were wrestling with the 
> demands of the new mountain bikes, with their triple chainsets and huge 
> gear capacities. They hated the very long pulley cages, which had limited 
> ground clearance and irritating chain slap - so they invented the ‘3 
> Pulley 
> System’. With one brilliant stroke it gave huge capacity with a 
> relatively 
> short cage. Ground clearance was restored, chain slap minimised.
>
> Fantastic - except for the fact that it looked so weird that, as you 
> cycled by, dogs barked, babies cried and your friends laughed. At you, 
> not 
> with you. Sales were lamentably low."
>
> On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 2:14:50 AM UTC-4 Luke Hendrickson 
> wrote:
>
>> [image: 40650634-AA3B-48BE-A3F3-09AC3632AB79.jpeg]
>>
>> I shall most likely be buying this as my friend (Jim of Merry Sales) 
>> is involved, I want to support Riv, and this will officially be the only 
>> good-looking contemporary rd made. That said, I happen to love what I’m 
>> running rn: a three pulley Suntour XC from about 1986.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, September 26, 2022 at 1:40:59 PM UTC-7 J J wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for sending the excerpts, Eric! Super interesting to read 
>>> Grant’s thoughts so early on. That was the seed that led to him to 
>>> the wild idea of designing and then manufacturing his own low normal 
>>> RDs.
>>>
>>> On Monday, September 26, 2022 at 4:10:07 PM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I was reading some Rivendell Readers this weekend and encountered a 
 few mentions of Rapid Rise mechs. Interesting to see Grant's takes 
 when 
 Rapid Rise was new and in production. 

 These are from RR 33 (Fall 2004) and RR 22 (Winter 2001). 

 [image: IMG_2712 2.jpg]

 [image: IMG_2711 2.jpg]

>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Do you Rapid Rise? (Share pics and thoughts)

[Kim Hetzel]

I was given one a Shimano XTR RD-M951 Rear Derailleur years ago. I 
installed on my bicycle. I rode it for a very very short time. I could not 
stand it whatsoever !  I changed it out. Gave it away. 

Kim Hetzel
Yelm, WA.
On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 3:56:36 PM UTC-7 Garth wrote:

> I'd buy one of those cool looking Suntour Rd's any day ! Man I miss 
> Suntour stuff.  I have no need or desire for a reverse direction RD though. 
> On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 5:46:37 PM UTC-4 Luke Hendrickson wrote:
>
>> It’s super cool!
>>
>> On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 6:20:03 AM UTC-7 eric...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Wow, Luke, I've never seen one of those. I had to check out Disraeli 
>>> Gears 
>>> for
>>>  
>>> more info. 
>>>
>>> "So what in heaven’s name is this? SunTour were wrestling with the 
>>> demands of the new mountain bikes, with their triple chainsets and huge 
>>> gear capacities. They hated the very long pulley cages, which had limited 
>>> ground clearance and irritating chain slap - so they invented the ‘3 Pulley 
>>> System’. With one brilliant stroke it gave huge capacity with a relatively 
>>> short cage. Ground clearance was restored, chain slap minimised.
>>>
>>> Fantastic - except for the fact that it looked so weird that, as you 
>>> cycled by, dogs barked, babies cried and your friends laughed. At you, not 
>>> with you. Sales were lamentably low."
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 2:14:50 AM UTC-4 Luke Hendrickson 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 [image: 40650634-AA3B-48BE-A3F3-09AC3632AB79.jpeg]

 I shall most likely be buying this as my friend (Jim of Merry Sales) is 
 involved, I want to support Riv, and this will officially be the only 
 good-looking contemporary rd made. That said, I happen to love what I’m 
 running rn: a three pulley Suntour XC from about 1986.



 On Monday, September 26, 2022 at 1:40:59 PM UTC-7 J J wrote:

> Thanks for sending the excerpts, Eric! Super interesting to read 
> Grant’s thoughts so early on. That was the seed that led to him to 
> the wild idea of designing and then manufacturing his own low normal RDs.
>
> On Monday, September 26, 2022 at 4:10:07 PM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I was reading some Rivendell Readers this weekend and encountered a 
>> few mentions of Rapid Rise mechs. Interesting to see Grant's takes when 
>> Rapid Rise was new and in production. 
>>
>> These are from RR 33 (Fall 2004) and RR 22 (Winter 2001). 
>>
>> [image: IMG_2712 2.jpg]
>>
>> [image: IMG_2711 2.jpg]
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Do you Rapid Rise? (Share pics and thoughts)

[Garth]

I'd buy one of those cool looking Suntour Rd's any day ! Man I miss Suntour 
stuff.  I have no need or desire for a reverse direction RD though. 
On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 5:46:37 PM UTC-4 Luke Hendrickson wrote:

> It’s super cool!
>
> On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 6:20:03 AM UTC-7 eric...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Wow, Luke, I've never seen one of those. I had to check out Disraeli 
>> Gears 
>> for
>>  
>> more info. 
>>
>> "So what in heaven’s name is this? SunTour were wrestling with the 
>> demands of the new mountain bikes, with their triple chainsets and huge 
>> gear capacities. They hated the very long pulley cages, which had limited 
>> ground clearance and irritating chain slap - so they invented the ‘3 Pulley 
>> System’. With one brilliant stroke it gave huge capacity with a relatively 
>> short cage. Ground clearance was restored, chain slap minimised.
>>
>> Fantastic - except for the fact that it looked so weird that, as you 
>> cycled by, dogs barked, babies cried and your friends laughed. At you, not 
>> with you. Sales were lamentably low."
>>
>> On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 2:14:50 AM UTC-4 Luke Hendrickson wrote:
>>
>>> [image: 40650634-AA3B-48BE-A3F3-09AC3632AB79.jpeg]
>>>
>>> I shall most likely be buying this as my friend (Jim of Merry Sales) is 
>>> involved, I want to support Riv, and this will officially be the only 
>>> good-looking contemporary rd made. That said, I happen to love what I’m 
>>> running rn: a three pulley Suntour XC from about 1986.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, September 26, 2022 at 1:40:59 PM UTC-7 J J wrote:
>>>
 Thanks for sending the excerpts, Eric! Super interesting to read 
 Grant’s thoughts so early on. That was the seed that led to him to the 
 wild idea of designing and then manufacturing his own low normal RDs.

 On Monday, September 26, 2022 at 4:10:07 PM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> I was reading some Rivendell Readers this weekend and encountered a 
> few mentions of Rapid Rise mechs. Interesting to see Grant's takes when 
> Rapid Rise was new and in production. 
>
> These are from RR 33 (Fall 2004) and RR 22 (Winter 2001). 
>
> [image: IMG_2712 2.jpg]
>
> [image: IMG_2711 2.jpg]
>


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Re: [RBW] Re: Do you Rapid Rise? (Share pics and thoughts)

[Eric Marth]

Wow, Luke, I've never seen one of those. I had to check out Disraeli Gears 
for
 
more info. 

"So what in heaven’s name is this? SunTour were wrestling with the demands 
of the new mountain bikes, with their triple chainsets and huge gear 
capacities. They hated the very long pulley cages, which had limited ground 
clearance and irritating chain slap - so they invented the ‘3 Pulley 
System’. With one brilliant stroke it gave huge capacity with a relatively 
short cage. Ground clearance was restored, chain slap minimised.

Fantastic - except for the fact that it looked so weird that, as you cycled 
by, dogs barked, babies cried and your friends laughed. At you, not with 
you. Sales were lamentably low."

On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 2:14:50 AM UTC-4 Luke Hendrickson wrote:

> [image: 40650634-AA3B-48BE-A3F3-09AC3632AB79.jpeg]
>
> I shall most likely be buying this as my friend (Jim of Merry Sales) is 
> involved, I want to support Riv, and this will officially be the only 
> good-looking contemporary rd made. That said, I happen to love what I’m 
> running rn: a three pulley Suntour XC from about 1986.
>
>
>
> On Monday, September 26, 2022 at 1:40:59 PM UTC-7 J J wrote:
>
>> Thanks for sending the excerpts, Eric! Super interesting to read Grant’s 
>> thoughts so early on. That was the seed that led to him to the wild idea 
>> of designing and then manufacturing his own low normal RDs.
>>
>> On Monday, September 26, 2022 at 4:10:07 PM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I was reading some Rivendell Readers this weekend and encountered a few 
>>> mentions of Rapid Rise mechs. Interesting to see Grant's takes when Rapid 
>>> Rise was new and in production. 
>>>
>>> These are from RR 33 (Fall 2004) and RR 22 (Winter 2001). 
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_2712 2.jpg]
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_2711 2.jpg]
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Do you Rapid Rise? (Share pics and thoughts)

[J J]

Thanks for sending the excerpts, Eric! Super interesting to read Grant’s 
thoughts so early on. That was the seed that led to him to the wild idea of 
designing and then manufacturing his own low normal RDs.

On Monday, September 26, 2022 at 4:10:07 PM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> I was reading some Rivendell Readers this weekend and encountered a few 
> mentions of Rapid Rise mechs. Interesting to see Grant's takes when Rapid 
> Rise was new and in production. 
>
> These are from RR 33 (Fall 2004) and RR 22 (Winter 2001). 
>
> [image: IMG_2712 2.jpg]
>
> [image: IMG_2711 2.jpg]
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Do you Rapid Rise? (Share pics and thoughts)

[Eric Marth]

Laing — Thanks for sharing that pic of the RH rear mech. I've seen it 
before but haven't read much about it. Are these supposed to offer great 
shifting, justifying their resurrection? Any chance they shift as well as a 
Suntour Cyclone? I'm sure I wouldn't be down for the cost. I remember the 
80th anniversary bikes being around $14,000. 

I agree that RH makes refined and good-looking parts. While I have no 
complaints about how Paul brakes look I do understand what people mean when 
they say they look CAD-heavy, stamped, unrefined, or as you point out, 
brutalist. I definitely prefer the look of the RH roller straddle cable 
hangers to the Moon Unit. Also agree about the Silver *and * Sugino/Clipper 
cranks, there are definitely better looking cranks out there. 
On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 12:26:08 PM UTC-4 lconley wrote:

> I have only seen the Nivex / Rene Herse derailleur for sale on the limited 
> edition 80th anniversary Rene Herse bicycle that sold out immediately. The 
> Nivex / Rene Herse derailleur mounts to a braze-on in the chainstay. This 
> picture is from Jan's PBP bike:
>
> [image: Rene Herse.JPG]
>
> On Disraeli Gears, they show a Nivex derailleur that clamps to the rear 
> chainstay. This derailleur dates back to 1937 - and some call Grant a 
> Retro-Grouch!
> It was supposedly in production as of April, but subject to supply issues 
> along with everything else. Note that is is a "no normal" derailleur - it 
> has two cables and no spring (other than the pulley cage) - it requires a 
> pulling cable in both directions.
>
> I am kind of partial to Rene Herse stuff, my custom has their tires, 
> crankset, brakes, front cable hanger, headset spacers, and water bottle 
> cage bolts. They pay a lot of attention to the appearance of the component 
> - unlike components such as Paul brakes and Rivendell cranksets, which are 
> kind of brutalist to my eye. But I do not think I will trying the Rene 
> Herse front or rear derailleurs , though.
>
> Laing
>
> On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 2:41:57 PM UTC-4 Bill Schairer wrote:
>
>> My mechanical reasoning challenged mind does not get the apparently self 
>> evident "mechanically, logically, intuitively, low-normal/RapidRise 
>> derailers are better…"  If I cared that my shifters both went the same way 
>> to get to a lower gear I would probably go to a reverse pull front 
>> derailleur to achieve that.  I agree, I want my low NOW and my experience 
>> is I get that when I am pulling the derailleur not when the spring is.  To 
>> me, this is why a reverse pull front derailleur on a tandem is sometimes a 
>> solution to having trouble shifting to a granny on a tandem - the springs 
>> just seem to have trouble counteracting any chain tension.  It is easier on 
>> a single to release all the tension so the spring of normal pull front 
>> derailleurs usually handle that shift without too much trouble.  I also 
>> don't buy that low normal didn't take because of racers.  The slant 
>> parallelogram was a big success for Suntour because they actually were so 
>> much better even though the pros weren't using Suntour derailleurs.  I 
>> kinda think that if OM actually was so much better they also would have 
>> succeeded in the market.  I have nothing against them and think it is great 
>> that there are choices to meet various needs or desires, I'm just not 
>> personally moved. 
>>
>>  I still find the Rene Herse rear derailleur the most intriguing of the 
>> small shop derailleurs.  If it could handle a cog larger than what FKT 
>> riders use I might even be tempted to give one a try.  Wait, I thought he 
>> sold those but I can't find them on their website??
>>
>> Bill S 
>> San Diego
>>
>> On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 10:59:39 AM UTC-7 eric...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Laing, I love the look of those mechs. The Le Tour, the Rally, and the 
>>> new Record. With the drillium it does seem they're harkening back to the 
>>> cages of the Shimano Crane. It almost looks like your picture is from their 
>>> research files! 
>>>
>>> Bill, I think you're right, we'd moan if we missed out. I think I'll get 
>>> one just to have one and to support such an insane project for a company of 
>>> Riv's size to undertake and, hopefully, see through to the end. 
>>>
>>> Were those Paul derailers any good? They look cool but I've never read 
>>> any accounts of how they worked (or didn't). 
>>>
>>> On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 11:40:11 AM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
 This demographic is the type that will handwring over the price while 
 the part is available, and then bellyache when it is not available 
 anymore, 
 finally bemoaning "if they ever bring it back I would buy two!"  :)

 It's what some people say about Paul rear derailers.  They were what 
 $350?  They/we complained that they were expensive, then complained when 
 they went away, and now you often see comments "I hope Paul reintroduces 
 their 

Re: [RBW] Re: Do you Rapid Rise? (Share pics and thoughts)

[J J]

I would definitely buy a Riv OM RD. No hesitation. 

I also have a hoard of low normal mechs. After I tried one and loved it, I 
went all in with almost every Shimano model I could find. Maybe too much 
all in! But I like having multiple redundant backups of things that work 
for me. I have sold some because I’m the living embodiment of the tension 
between the urge to acquire and the urge to purge.

I can’t wait to see Rivendell’s actual production model. The drawing 
suggests the design is an amalgam of different RDs, high end and low end, 
part homage, part “borrowing.” So curious how unified it will look in 
actuality. But ultimately what matters most is that it will even come into 
existence, being so contrary to the market tide… and how it functions on a 
bike in the real world. 

On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 1:59:39 PM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Laing, I love the look of those mechs. The Le Tour, the Rally, and the new 
> Record. With the drillium it does seem they're harkening back to the cages 
> of the Shimano Crane. It almost looks like your picture is from their 
> research files! 
>
> Bill, I think you're right, we'd moan if we missed out. I think I'll get 
> one just to have one and to support such an insane project for a company of 
> Riv's size to undertake and, hopefully, see through to the end. 
>
> Were those Paul derailers any good? They look cool but I've never read any 
> accounts of how they worked (or didn't). 
>
> On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 11:40:11 AM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> This demographic is the type that will handwring over the price while the 
>> part is available, and then bellyache when it is not available anymore, 
>> finally bemoaning "if they ever bring it back I would buy two!"  :)
>>
>> It's what some people say about Paul rear derailers.  They were what 
>> $350?  They/we complained that they were expensive, then complained when 
>> they went away, and now you often see comments "I hope Paul reintroduces 
>> their RD!"  
>>
>> Anyway, I'm almost as into Rapid Rise as Grant is, so I bought a bunch of 
>> XT M751 when they were being closed out, so I have a lifetime supply.  That 
>> said, a bike company in 2022 developing their own rear derailer is kind of 
>> an awesome achievement, and I'm proud of Grant and the rest of those who 
>> worked on it.  I'd probably buy one even as an artifact of audacity.  
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 8:18:56 AM UTC-7 Jay Lonner wrote:
>>
>>> Probably not, my vintage SunTour stuff is going strong on my existing 
>>> fleet, and future bike purchases will almost certainly have contemporary 
>>> drivetrains.
>>>
>>> Jay Lonner
>>> Bellingham, WA 
>>>
>>> On Sep 24, 2022, at 7:07 AM, lconley  wrote:
>>>
>>> I love the Campagnolo inspired textured surface and the Shimano Crane 
>>> GS (Schwinn Le Tour GT300) inspired drillium pulley cage. I will buy 
>>> one.[image: 
>>> Derailleurs (3)s.jpg]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Laing
>>> On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 9:41:55 AM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 In case anyone missed it, Grant posted some updates 
 
  
 on their new derailer.

 Looks like they found another place to have them fabricated (no more 
 $350 samples for them) and that retail cost (for us!) will be $175. That's 
 about $125 more than I've ever paid for a rear derailer. What do you all 
 think? Would you spend the $175 for one of these when you can get a 
 vintage 
 Shimano rapid rise on ebay for way less? 

 Image below is latest design. I think they mentioned on instagram that 
 the red parts will *not* *be red.* Thank goodness. Give me silver with 
 black pulley wheels. If you thought that Shimano 600EX arabesque 
 flourishes 
 were too groovy, well, check out the peace sign detail in that pulley 
 cage. 



 [image: download.png]

 On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 5:34:42 PM UTC-4 cz...@sonic.net wrote:

> Really hard to make ends meet with a 20% markup. With a 10% or 20% 
> markup, you're more likely to be selling groceries than bikes.
>
> I would be discouraged too. Working hard and putting lots of resources 
> behind a project you love - only to have it become impossible is really 
> tough to deal with.
>
> Regards,
>
> Corwin
>
> On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 6:14:35 AM UTC-7 J J wrote:
>
>> Yeah, I read the blog. The $345 would presumably be Riv's wholesale 
>> price, right? So... assuming a nominal retail markup of, say, 20%, the 
>>  price would be ~$415 for the end user. No idea if there is a standard 
>> industry markup, and we know Rivendell marches to their own rhythm. A 
>> 10% 
>> markup would be ~$380; 30% ~$450. Grant seemed disheartened. I really 
>> apprecia

Re: [RBW] Re: Do you Rapid Rise? (Share pics and thoughts)

[Bill Schairer]

My mechanical reasoning challenged mind does not get the apparently self 
evident "mechanically, logically, intuitively, low-normal/RapidRise 
derailers are better…"  If I cared that my shifters both went the same way 
to get to a lower gear I would probably go to a reverse pull front 
derailleur to achieve that.  I agree, I want my low NOW and my experience 
is I get that when I am pulling the derailleur not when the spring is.  To 
me, this is why a reverse pull front derailleur on a tandem is sometimes a 
solution to having trouble shifting to a granny on a tandem - the springs 
just seem to have trouble counteracting any chain tension.  It is easier on 
a single to release all the tension so the spring of normal pull front 
derailleurs usually handle that shift without too much trouble.  I also 
don't buy that low normal didn't take because of racers.  The slant 
parallelogram was a big success for Suntour because they actually were so 
much better even though the pros weren't using Suntour derailleurs.  I 
kinda think that if OM actually was so much better they also would have 
succeeded in the market.  I have nothing against them and think it is great 
that there are choices to meet various needs or desires, I'm just not 
personally moved. 

 I still find the Rene Herse rear derailleur the most intriguing of the 
small shop derailleurs.  If it could handle a cog larger than what FKT 
riders use I might even be tempted to give one a try.  Wait, I thought he 
sold those but I can't find them on their website??

Bill S 
San Diego

On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 10:59:39 AM UTC-7 eric...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Laing, I love the look of those mechs. The Le Tour, the Rally, and the new 
> Record. With the drillium it does seem they're harkening back to the cages 
> of the Shimano Crane. It almost looks like your picture is from their 
> research files! 
>
> Bill, I think you're right, we'd moan if we missed out. I think I'll get 
> one just to have one and to support such an insane project for a company of 
> Riv's size to undertake and, hopefully, see through to the end. 
>
> Were those Paul derailers any good? They look cool but I've never read any 
> accounts of how they worked (or didn't). 
>
> On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 11:40:11 AM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> This demographic is the type that will handwring over the price while the 
>> part is available, and then bellyache when it is not available anymore, 
>> finally bemoaning "if they ever bring it back I would buy two!"  :)
>>
>> It's what some people say about Paul rear derailers.  They were what 
>> $350?  They/we complained that they were expensive, then complained when 
>> they went away, and now you often see comments "I hope Paul reintroduces 
>> their RD!"  
>>
>> Anyway, I'm almost as into Rapid Rise as Grant is, so I bought a bunch of 
>> XT M751 when they were being closed out, so I have a lifetime supply.  That 
>> said, a bike company in 2022 developing their own rear derailer is kind of 
>> an awesome achievement, and I'm proud of Grant and the rest of those who 
>> worked on it.  I'd probably buy one even as an artifact of audacity.  
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 8:18:56 AM UTC-7 Jay Lonner wrote:
>>
>>> Probably not, my vintage SunTour stuff is going strong on my existing 
>>> fleet, and future bike purchases will almost certainly have contemporary 
>>> drivetrains.
>>>
>>> Jay Lonner
>>> Bellingham, WA 
>>>
>>> On Sep 24, 2022, at 7:07 AM, lconley  wrote:
>>>
>>> I love the Campagnolo inspired textured surface and the Shimano Crane 
>>> GS (Schwinn Le Tour GT300) inspired drillium pulley cage. I will buy 
>>> one.[image: 
>>> Derailleurs (3)s.jpg]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Laing
>>> On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 9:41:55 AM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 In case anyone missed it, Grant posted some updates 
 
  
 on their new derailer.

 Looks like they found another place to have them fabricated (no more 
 $350 samples for them) and that retail cost (for us!) will be $175. That's 
 about $125 more than I've ever paid for a rear derailer. What do you all 
 think? Would you spend the $175 for one of these when you can get a 
 vintage 
 Shimano rapid rise on ebay for way less? 

 Image below is latest design. I think they mentioned on instagram that 
 the red parts will *not* *be red.* Thank goodness. Give me silver with 
 black pulley wheels. If you thought that Shimano 600EX arabesque 
 flourishes 
 were too groovy, well, check out the peace sign detail in that pulley 
 cage. 



 [image: download.png]

 On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 5:34:42 PM UTC-4 cz...@sonic.net wrote:

> Really hard to make ends meet with a 20% markup. With a 10% or 20% 
> markup, you're more l

Re: [RBW] Re: Do you Rapid Rise? (Share pics and thoughts)

[Eric Marth]

Laing, I love the look of those mechs. The Le Tour, the Rally, and the new 
Record. With the drillium it does seem they're harkening back to the cages 
of the Shimano Crane. It almost looks like your picture is from their 
research files! 

Bill, I think you're right, we'd moan if we missed out. I think I'll get 
one just to have one and to support such an insane project for a company of 
Riv's size to undertake and, hopefully, see through to the end. 

Were those Paul derailers any good? They look cool but I've never read any 
accounts of how they worked (or didn't). 

On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 11:40:11 AM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> This demographic is the type that will handwring over the price while the 
> part is available, and then bellyache when it is not available anymore, 
> finally bemoaning "if they ever bring it back I would buy two!"  :)
>
> It's what some people say about Paul rear derailers.  They were what 
> $350?  They/we complained that they were expensive, then complained when 
> they went away, and now you often see comments "I hope Paul reintroduces 
> their RD!"  
>
> Anyway, I'm almost as into Rapid Rise as Grant is, so I bought a bunch of 
> XT M751 when they were being closed out, so I have a lifetime supply.  That 
> said, a bike company in 2022 developing their own rear derailer is kind of 
> an awesome achievement, and I'm proud of Grant and the rest of those who 
> worked on it.  I'd probably buy one even as an artifact of audacity.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 8:18:56 AM UTC-7 Jay Lonner wrote:
>
>> Probably not, my vintage SunTour stuff is going strong on my existing 
>> fleet, and future bike purchases will almost certainly have contemporary 
>> drivetrains.
>>
>> Jay Lonner
>> Bellingham, WA 
>>
>> On Sep 24, 2022, at 7:07 AM, lconley  wrote:
>>
>> I love the Campagnolo inspired textured surface and the Shimano Crane GS 
>> (Schwinn Le Tour GT300) inspired drillium pulley cage. I will buy 
>> one.[image: 
>> Derailleurs (3)s.jpg]
>>
>>
>>
>> Laing
>> On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 9:41:55 AM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In case anyone missed it, Grant posted some updates 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> on their new derailer.
>>>
>>> Looks like they found another place to have them fabricated (no more 
>>> $350 samples for them) and that retail cost (for us!) will be $175. That's 
>>> about $125 more than I've ever paid for a rear derailer. What do you all 
>>> think? Would you spend the $175 for one of these when you can get a vintage 
>>> Shimano rapid rise on ebay for way less? 
>>>
>>> Image below is latest design. I think they mentioned on instagram that 
>>> the red parts will *not* *be red.* Thank goodness. Give me silver with 
>>> black pulley wheels. If you thought that Shimano 600EX arabesque flourishes 
>>> were too groovy, well, check out the peace sign detail in that pulley cage. 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: download.png]
>>>
>>> On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 5:34:42 PM UTC-4 cz...@sonic.net wrote:
>>>
 Really hard to make ends meet with a 20% markup. With a 10% or 20% 
 markup, you're more likely to be selling groceries than bikes.

 I would be discouraged too. Working hard and putting lots of resources 
 behind a project you love - only to have it become impossible is really 
 tough to deal with.

 Regards,

 Corwin

 On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 6:14:35 AM UTC-7 J J wrote:

> Yeah, I read the blog. The $345 would presumably be Riv's wholesale 
> price, right? So... assuming a nominal retail markup of, say, 20%, the 
>  price would be ~$415 for the end user. No idea if there is a standard 
> industry markup, and we know Rivendell marches to their own rhythm. A 10% 
> markup would be ~$380; 30% ~$450. Grant seemed disheartened. I really 
> appreciate his transparency. 
> (Your build videos are great btw Eric.)  
>
> On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 8:57:56 AM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Great pics, Ana, and yeah, those Nexaves are quite large! 
>>
>> Did you all read the latest Blahg? Seems the prototypes are crazy 
>> expensive. They'll be CNC machined. Here's Grant's quote from the 
>> fabricators: 
>>
>> "50 pieces. These will be made by CNC machining They will cost 
>> $345.5 USD each,  total $17,275 USD. The cost base on the QTY"
>>
>> More here.  
>> Um,
>>  
>> does it seem like maybe 50 Rivendell customers would pool together and 
>> chunk in a non-refundable $350 towards getting this project moving in 
>> the 
>> (opposite) direction?  
>> On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 3:24:45 AM UTC-4 Ana Candela wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, and love it!

Re: [RBW] Re: Do you Rapid Rise? (Share pics and thoughts)

[Bill Lindsay]

This demographic is the type that will handwring over the price while the 
part is available, and then bellyache when it is not available anymore, 
finally bemoaning "if they ever bring it back I would buy two!"  :)

It's what some people say about Paul rear derailers.  They were what $350?  
They/we complained that they were expensive, then complained when they went 
away, and now you often see comments "I hope Paul reintroduces their RD!"  

Anyway, I'm almost as into Rapid Rise as Grant is, so I bought a bunch of 
XT M751 when they were being closed out, so I have a lifetime supply.  That 
said, a bike company in 2022 developing their own rear derailer is kind of 
an awesome achievement, and I'm proud of Grant and the rest of those who 
worked on it.  I'd probably buy one even as an artifact of audacity.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 8:18:56 AM UTC-7 Jay Lonner wrote:

> Probably not, my vintage SunTour stuff is going strong on my existing 
> fleet, and future bike purchases will almost certainly have contemporary 
> drivetrains.
>
> Jay Lonner
> Bellingham, WA 
>
> On Sep 24, 2022, at 7:07 AM, lconley  wrote:
>
> I love the Campagnolo inspired textured surface and the Shimano Crane GS 
> (Schwinn Le Tour GT300) inspired drillium pulley cage. I will buy one.[image: 
> Derailleurs (3)s.jpg]
>
>
>
> Laing
> On Saturday, September 24, 2022 at 9:41:55 AM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> In case anyone missed it, Grant posted some updates 
>> 
>>  
>> on their new derailer.
>>
>> Looks like they found another place to have them fabricated (no more $350 
>> samples for them) and that retail cost (for us!) will be $175. That's about 
>> $125 more than I've ever paid for a rear derailer. What do you all think? 
>> Would you spend the $175 for one of these when you can get a vintage 
>> Shimano rapid rise on ebay for way less? 
>>
>> Image below is latest design. I think they mentioned on instagram that 
>> the red parts will *not* *be red.* Thank goodness. Give me silver with 
>> black pulley wheels. If you thought that Shimano 600EX arabesque flourishes 
>> were too groovy, well, check out the peace sign detail in that pulley cage. 
>>
>>
>>
>> [image: download.png]
>>
>> On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 5:34:42 PM UTC-4 cz...@sonic.net wrote:
>>
>>> Really hard to make ends meet with a 20% markup. With a 10% or 20% 
>>> markup, you're more likely to be selling groceries than bikes.
>>>
>>> I would be discouraged too. Working hard and putting lots of resources 
>>> behind a project you love - only to have it become impossible is really 
>>> tough to deal with.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Corwin
>>>
>>> On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 6:14:35 AM UTC-7 J J wrote:
>>>
 Yeah, I read the blog. The $345 would presumably be Riv's wholesale 
 price, right? So... assuming a nominal retail markup of, say, 20%, the 
  price would be ~$415 for the end user. No idea if there is a standard 
 industry markup, and we know Rivendell marches to their own rhythm. A 10% 
 markup would be ~$380; 30% ~$450. Grant seemed disheartened. I really 
 appreciate his transparency. 
 (Your build videos are great btw Eric.)  

 On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 8:57:56 AM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Great pics, Ana, and yeah, those Nexaves are quite large! 
>
> Did you all read the latest Blahg? Seems the prototypes are crazy 
> expensive. They'll be CNC machined. Here's Grant's quote from the 
> fabricators: 
>
> "50 pieces. These will be made by CNC machining They will cost 
> $345.5 USD each,  total $17,275 USD. The cost base on the QTY"
>
> More here.  
> Um,
>  
> does it seem like maybe 50 Rivendell customers would pool together and 
> chunk in a non-refundable $350 towards getting this project moving in the 
> (opposite) direction?  
> On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 3:24:45 AM UTC-4 Ana Candela wrote:
>
>> Yes, and love it! I got one last year thanks to Grant's suggestion: 
>> Shimano Nexave RD-C505. It is rather large compared to the other ones 
>> I'm 
>> seeing posted here, but hey, function before form. I am very much 
>> looking 
>> forward to Rivendell's derailer project because function will be 
>> enhanced 
>> by form. I think it's coming along beautifully :)
>>
>> My RR der is the #1 upgrade that I've done to my bike, and that's 
>> saying a lot! The reason is thanks to its logic of shifting: it doesn't 
>> twist my brain and wreak havoc like "normal" ones do. I always thought 
>> the 
>> shifting in bikes was counterintuitive, but I assumed that was the way 
>> of 
>> derailers. Then at some point Grant brought up the rapid-ris

Re: [RBW] Re: Do you Rapid Rise? (Share pics and thoughts)

[brendonoid]

Grant has said previously that no one local is interested, including Paul.
I was more pointing out that I wouldn't be paying hundreds of dollars for
anything made in China, and that the prices Grant was talking about
definitely makes domestic production more attractive.
There are lots of places in Asia to ethically produce something and China
is not one of those places. Full stop. I don't really care what lies they
tell you or fake factory floor they show you pictures of.

I suspect Eric Daume is right. *It aint worth it*.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Do you Rapid Rise? (Share pics and thoughts)

[Johnny Alien]

I am sure a Paul made one would be well north of a grand. You might pay it 
but I would guess most of the regular world would not.  Especially with 
cheap RR options available used. It's not like this is a product people are 
trying desperately to get. Its a product that Rivendell is going to have to 
convince people they need. I'm up to try one but when the Altus derailer I 
have on my Clem works so f'n fantastic at $25 it's hard for me to think of 
paying 20 times that to make it go backwards. It would be an odd sell for a 
company that has long been saying the cheapest Shimano shift as good as all 
of the expensive stuff. I still hope he can pull it together I was 
certainly interested in the low end version.

On Saturday, August 27, 2022 at 6:20:13 AM UTC-4 Eric Daume wrote:

> $19k was for one cage plate. So, two cage plates, and what? four parts of 
> the upper link? Probably well over $100k total in tooling.
>
> Bringing back rapid rise ain't worth it. 
>
> Eric
> who has tried RR but doesn't see the point
>
> On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 2:02 AM brendonoid  wrote:
>
>> A bit more concerning in the blahg was that the tooling to make the 
>> non-cnc'd version was going to cost ~$19k?
>> I suspect that would be a no go for proceeding.
>>
>> I sort of wish Paul or white industries or someone local would just do it 
>> for a crazy expensive price. At least it would be MUSA and you know it 
>> would be great quality, considering what Paul derailleurs go for in the 
>> second hand market I have no doubt he would be able to sell them even at a 
>> crazy price point.
>>
>> I wouldn't be happy paying 500 for a made in china derailleur. That is as 
>> much a political choice as anything else but I wouldn't do it. 
>> I might consider paying a grand for a Paul derailleur though...
>>
>> -- 
>>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/e7ed684a-1d62-4cfa-8d2f-88e722ea1958n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Do you Rapid Rise? (Share pics and thoughts)

[Eric Daume]

$19k was for one cage plate. So, two cage plates, and what? four parts of
the upper link? Probably well over $100k total in tooling.

Bringing back rapid rise ain't worth it.

Eric
who has tried RR but doesn't see the point

On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 2:02 AM brendonoid  wrote:

> A bit more concerning in the blahg was that the tooling to make the
> non-cnc'd version was going to cost ~$19k?
> I suspect that would be a no go for proceeding.
>
> I sort of wish Paul or white industries or someone local would just do it
> for a crazy expensive price. At least it would be MUSA and you know it
> would be great quality, considering what Paul derailleurs go for in the
> second hand market I have no doubt he would be able to sell them even at a
> crazy price point.
>
> I wouldn't be happy paying 500 for a made in china derailleur. That is as
> much a political choice as anything else but I wouldn't do it.
> I might consider paying a grand for a Paul derailleur though...
>
> --
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> 
> .
>

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