Re: [RBW] Re: Grim Hipsters, Holdfasts

[Jon BALER]

My buddy and I have both used the VO sabot pedals for many miles of paved 
bike touring, and been very happy with them.  I've done around 5,000 miles, 
and he has done about 15,000 miles.  We both use them with sturdy soled 
trail running shoes.   For paved riding, I have no issues with the rounded 
pins.   For off-road riding, I agree that sharper pins would be a benefit.

Besides the VO sabot pedals on my touring bike, I have VP pedals on most of 
the rest of my bikes (fat bike, fixed gear, monster cross).   My commuting 
bike has spanky oozy pedals with the 3 middle pins removed.

I've tried the Hold Fast straps a couple of times, and just couldn't like 
them.  I find them too much of a hassle to get into, and it doesn't help 
that I have size 14 feet which probably causes them to have a less stiff 
open shape.  I even tried their extra large version, and it didn't help 
much.  I find good pedals don't require straps, and even my fixed gear is 
ok if I don't get too crazy on the downhills.   Fixed gear is harder to get 
into the straps, because you can't coast and hold the pedal level.   I use 
five10 shoes for mountain biking, but regular trail running shoes (even 
sandals) for road riding.


On Monday, July 31, 2017 at 12:10:53 PM UTC-4, drew wrote:
>
> Agreed. The vp pins grip and dig into anything, in all weather. Including 
> shin and ankle meat.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Grim Hipsters, Holdfasts

[drew]

Agreed. The vp pins grip and dig into anything, in all weather. Including shin 
and ankle meat.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Grim Hipsters, Holdfasts

[Garth]

Of course you can change the pins to hollow, they even come in different 
lengths, but hey, nothing like buying brand new stuff only to have replace part 
of it before you use it

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Re: [RBW] Re: Grim Hipsters, Holdfasts

[Garth]

I just looked at the Sabots, I would not recommend them if you want your feet 
to stay put. The pins are the rounded off type, not the hollow point ones, huge 
difference. No wonder Dave's feet slid off. With the hollow point pins that 
would not have happened. I have ridden in driving rain with Vice and Crocs 
sildes and my feet were of no concern. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Grim Hipsters, Holdfasts

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Dave; Sabots and these Power Grips clones might be the best
compromise, which is somewhat adequate retention while accommodating all
shoes.

On Sun, Jul 30, 2017 at 7:14 PM, 'Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> My only experience with the Hold-Fast straps is with VO Sabot pedals.  In
> that case retraction hasn't been a problem because the pins on the pedal
> aren't that tall and are rounded.  I tightened the straps to the point that
> they're snug, but not so tight they were cutting off blood flow to my toes,
> and I made sure I could remove my feet quickly without issue.  The
> tightness level is a fine line, but I found it pretty quickly.
>
> On a recent tour I considered going with the Sabots and no straps, and
> ended up taking the pedals with straps thinking that I could remove the
> straps during the trip if I wanted to.  On the 2nd afternoon it rained
> fairly hard for a couple of hours and I flipped the pedals to test the
> Sabots without retention, and my foot slipped more than I thought they
> would.  I was glad I had the straps.  With longer spikier pins I think
> retracting from the Hold-Fasts would be a problem, and in that case you may
> not need retention even when it rains.
>
>
> On Sunday, July 30, 2017 at 6:42:51 PM UTC-4, drew wrote:
>>
>> I've never tried this, but wouldn't pins be somewhat redundant on a pedal
>> with straps? Also, wouldn't the pins make foot entrance/exit difficult? I
>> was under the assumption that grippy pedals with pins were made for bmx or
>> mtb applications where you wouldn't want straps.
>>
>> I have thin gripsters on 2 bikes, and my foot does zero sliding around. I
>> hear you on the pulling up part, but I haven't thought about that since
>> installing them on the bike.
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Grim Hipsters, Holdfasts

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

My only experience with the Hold-Fast straps is with VO Sabot pedals.  In 
that case retraction hasn't been a problem because the pins on the pedal 
aren't that tall and are rounded.  I tightened the straps to the point that 
they're snug, but not so tight they were cutting off blood flow to my toes, 
and I made sure I could remove my feet quickly without issue.  The 
tightness level is a fine line, but I found it pretty quickly.  

On a recent tour I considered going with the Sabots and no straps, and 
ended up taking the pedals with straps thinking that I could remove the 
straps during the trip if I wanted to.  On the 2nd afternoon it rained 
fairly hard for a couple of hours and I flipped the pedals to test the 
Sabots without retention, and my foot slipped more than I thought they 
would.  I was glad I had the straps.  With longer spikier pins I think 
retracting from the Hold-Fasts would be a problem, and in that case you may 
not need retention even when it rains.   

On Sunday, July 30, 2017 at 6:42:51 PM UTC-4, drew wrote:
>
> I've never tried this, but wouldn't pins be somewhat redundant on a pedal 
> with straps? Also, wouldn't the pins make foot entrance/exit difficult? I 
> was under the assumption that grippy pedals with pins were made for bmx or 
> mtb applications where you wouldn't want straps. 
>
> I have thin gripsters on 2 bikes, and my foot does zero sliding around. I 
> hear you on the pulling up part, but I haven't thought about that since 
> installing them on the bike. 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Grim Hipsters, Holdfasts

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Garth. More good information to feed into the knowledge mill.

No, I've never tried no-ret, at least, not since about 1972 -- actually,
had a grocery store Raleigh Sprite in WDC circa 1986-8 with rubber blocks,
but since then, nope. I keep meaning to try it but haven't gotten a round
tuit yet. But I want to!

On Sun, Jul 30, 2017 at 5:43 PM, Garth  wrote:

> Hollow point pins, the most common, grip anything soft. Depending on the
> softness it may even create voids in the sole. I
> This happens on Crocs slides I wear and my feet do not move at all on tne
> pedals, but since the the sandals fit somewhat loose my feet move around a
> bit, whatever is natural. I removed all the pins on o e side and installed
> spome skate tape on the exposed surfacw of the Vice, and though I can move
> my feet around easily my feet still have never flown off. I suppose it is
> in the technique. I started many eons ago keeping my feet level
> throughout(like cleaning mud off your shoes) the stroke with the
> availablity of clipless and this easily translated to flat pedals and a
> midfoot position. It's all in the technique, not the pedal itself.
>
> Your boat shoes are a harder rubber but they may still create holes in the
> soles.
>
> Have you not tried going strapless many times Patrick and it never felt
> good enough for you ?  That's what I recall. If so don't bother, just go
> with a retention system. Unless your technique has changed it'll be a
> Groundhod Day, and there's nowhere to go but off the cliff with the little
> fella !
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Grim Hipsters, Holdfasts

[Garth]

Hollow point pins, the most common, grip anything soft. Depending on the 
softness it may even create voids in the sole. I
This happens on Crocs slides I wear and my feet do not move at all on tne 
pedals, but since the the sandals fit somewhat loose my feet move around a bit, 
whatever is natural. I removed all the pins on o e side and installed spome 
skate tape on the exposed surfacw of the Vice, and though I can move my feet 
around easily my feet still have never flown off. I suppose it is in the 
technique. I started many eons ago keeping my feet level throughout(like 
cleaning mud off your shoes) the stroke with the availablity of clipless and 
this easily translated to flat pedals and a midfoot position. It's all in the 
technique, not the pedal itself.

Your boat shoes are a harder rubber but they may still create holes in the 
soles. 

Have you not tried going strapless many times Patrick and it never felt good 
enough for you ?  That's what I recall. If so don't bother, just go with a 
retention system. Unless your technique has changed it'll be a Groundhod Day, 
and there's nowhere to go but off the cliff with the little fella ! 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Grim Hipsters, Holdfasts

[Ty Graham]

some of us have to check everything. :-)


On Saturday, July 29, 2017 at 4:21:02 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Ooooh medical tape.  Maybe.  I'll rewatch the movie and make a judgement. 
>  Who's in the pool for:
>
> Electrical tape
> Scotch tape 
> Newbaums
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Grim Hipsters, Holdfasts

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Deacon. One more very useful data point.

On Sun, Jul 30, 2017 at 5:04 PM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:

> Barefoot and pins, no. Thin, flat sandals work great with pins. You should
> be just fine. You may find a grippier rubber sole grips better, but you'll
> get a lot of grip short of a wooden clog. Grin.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Sunday, July 30, 2017 at 4:45:25 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> Whoops! Good point! You might have saved me from yet one more expensive
>> Trial And Error experiment, with the result being the Error.
>>
>> But this raises a question: do the pins work to hold any shoe in place --
>> eg, the Sperry boat shoes I'm wearing right now? Or do you need to buy
>> special grippy soles for grippy pins? If so, if I have to change out of my
>> slip on boat shoes, I might as well slip into SPD shoes.
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 30, 2017 at 4:42 PM, drew  wrote:
>>
>>> I've never tried this, but wouldn't pins be somewhat redundant on a
>>> pedal with straps? Also, wouldn't the pins make foot entrance/exit
>>> difficult? I was under the assumption that grippy pedals with pins were
>>> made for bmx or mtb applications where you wouldn't want straps.
>>>
>>> I have thin gripsters on 2 bikes, and my foot does zero sliding around.
>>> I hear you on the pulling up part, but I haven't thought about that since
>>> installing them on the bike.
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
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>> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Grim Hipsters, Holdfasts

[Deacon Patrick]

Barefoot and pins, no. Thin, flat sandals work great with pins. You should 
be just fine. You may find a grippier rubber sole grips better, but you'll 
get a lot of grip short of a wooden clog. Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Sunday, July 30, 2017 at 4:45:25 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Whoops! Good point! You might have saved me from yet one more expensive 
> Trial And Error experiment, with the result being the Error.
>
> But this raises a question: do the pins work to hold any shoe in place -- 
> eg, the Sperry boat shoes I'm wearing right now? Or do you need to buy 
> special grippy soles for grippy pins? If so, if I have to change out of my 
> slip on boat shoes, I might as well slip into SPD shoes.
>
> On Sun, Jul 30, 2017 at 4:42 PM, drew  
> wrote:
>
>> I've never tried this, but wouldn't pins be somewhat redundant on a pedal 
>> with straps? Also, wouldn't the pins make foot entrance/exit difficult? I 
>> was under the assumption that grippy pedals with pins were made for bmx or 
>> mtb applications where you wouldn't want straps.
>>
>> I have thin gripsters on 2 bikes, and my foot does zero sliding around. I 
>> hear you on the pulling up part, but I haven't thought about that since 
>> installing them on the bike.
>>
>> --
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>
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Grim Hipsters, Holdfasts

[Patrick Moore]

Whoops! Good point! You might have saved me from yet one more expensive
Trial And Error experiment, with the result being the Error.

But this raises a question: do the pins work to hold any shoe in place --
eg, the Sperry boat shoes I'm wearing right now? Or do you need to buy
special grippy soles for grippy pins? If so, if I have to change out of my
slip on boat shoes, I might as well slip into SPD shoes.

On Sun, Jul 30, 2017 at 4:42 PM, drew  wrote:

> I've never tried this, but wouldn't pins be somewhat redundant on a pedal
> with straps? Also, wouldn't the pins make foot entrance/exit difficult? I
> was under the assumption that grippy pedals with pins were made for bmx or
> mtb applications where you wouldn't want straps.
>
> I have thin gripsters on 2 bikes, and my foot does zero sliding around. I
> hear you on the pulling up part, but I haven't thought about that since
> installing them on the bike.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Grim Hipsters, Holdfasts

[drew]

I've never tried this, but wouldn't pins be somewhat redundant on a pedal with 
straps? Also, wouldn't the pins make foot entrance/exit difficult? I was under 
the assumption that grippy pedals with pins were made for bmx or mtb 
applications where you wouldn't want straps. 

I have thin gripsters on 2 bikes, and my foot does zero sliding around. I hear 
you on the pulling up part, but I haven't thought about that since installing 
them on the bike. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Grim Hipsters, Holdfasts

[Patrick Moore]

BTW, I'm particularly interested in knowing if those Holdfasts retain
better than slightly tightened straps, for the (climbing" reason mentioned.

Do Power Grips hold your non-slotted-cleat shoe in place better than just
slightly tight straps?

On Sun, Jul 30, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Thanks, Chris. I will indeed try retentionless, if I do get the Gripsters
> or the VO Sabot (which takes clips and straps). But I so often pull rather
> strongly upward or backward when climbing that in fact, rather than either
> of these, I may simply go back to SPDs.
>
> On Sun, Jul 30, 2017 at 11:30 AM, christian poppell 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Patrick,
>>
>> Have you tried just using flat pedals without straps? I use them on my
>> multi speed and fixed gear and have not had a problem with my feet flying
>> off. On the fixed gear, which sees a lot of offroad, slow cadence hill
>> climbing, I am able to pull on the upstroke by pointing my toe downward
>> (also works in flip flops). A differet technique but it does work.
>>
>> Christian
>>
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>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Grim Hipsters, Holdfasts

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Chris. I will indeed try retentionless, if I do get the Gripsters
or the VO Sabot (which takes clips and straps). But I so often pull rather
strongly upward or backward when climbing that in fact, rather than either
of these, I may simply go back to SPDs.

On Sun, Jul 30, 2017 at 11:30 AM, christian poppell 
wrote:

> Hi Patrick,
>
> Have you tried just using flat pedals without straps? I use them on my
> multi speed and fixed gear and have not had a problem with my feet flying
> off. On the fixed gear, which sees a lot of offroad, slow cadence hill
> climbing, I am able to pull on the upstroke by pointing my toe downward
> (also works in flip flops). A differet technique but it does work.
>
> Christian
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Grim Hipsters, Holdfasts

[christian poppell]

Hi Patrick,

Have you tried just using flat pedals without straps? I use them on my multi 
speed and fixed gear and have not had a problem with my feet flying off. On the 
fixed gear, which sees a lot of offroad, slow cadence hill climbing, I am able 
to pull on the upstroke by pointing my toe downward (also works in flip flops). 
A differet technique but it does work. 

Christian

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Re: [RBW] Re: Grim Hipsters, Holdfasts

[Mitch Harris]

On Saturday, July 29, 2017 at 3:12:47 PM UTC-6, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Patrick Moore implied that duct tape was employed to attach Daves feet to 
> the pedals during the Little 500 at the end of Breaking Away. 
>
> Without checking , I will wager the cost of a pair of HoldFast straps that 
> it was not duct tape, but masking tape.  
>
> Bill Pedal Pedant Lindsay
> El Cerrito Ca
>

This will require a re-viewing. My memory is it's white athletic trainers 
tape, the kind commonly found in a stadium for taping ankles and vaulting 
poles.

--Mitch

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Re: [RBW] Re: Grim Hipsters, Holdfasts

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Dave, for bringing a small measure of sanity to this discussion
recently gotten out of hand. I checked out the VO Sabots last month, to see
if they accept clips 'n' strap; and yes, they do -- a plus.

I've moved the Sabots once again to the top of the list, as able to take
clips/straps as well as Power Grips and clones.

On Sat, Jul 29, 2017 at 5:55 PM, 'Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Back to the subject
>
> For touring I use Hold-Fast straps with VO Sabot pedals, which for
> purposes of this discussion are similar to the Thin Gripsters. The pedals
> are well made and have a large 100mm by 100mm platform, which when coupled
> with the large-size Hold-Fast straps accommodate my size 13 shoes which
> traditional clips and straps don't. My favorite shoes with this are Keen
> Commuter sandals but without clips installed.  With this combination my
> feet are well-supported on the wide platform and are nicely snugged in so
> that I feel connected but can disengage easily. The straps are robust
> enough that I can pull up on hills. The only downside is the same one toe
> clips have; when disengaged the strap is always under the pedal, and it
> take a little practice to be able to flip them up easily and get your foot
> in.
>
> By the way, the company that sells the Hold-Fast straps also sells nice
> canvas bags for a reasonable price.  Not saddlebag-bags, but 7" x 4.5" and
> another size a little larger.  I use the smaller size for storing travel
> chargers so I can just grab the bag when I'm leaving for a trip.
>
> Dave
>
> On Saturday, July 29, 2017 at 3:57:28 PM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> Thems These And Those:
>>
>> https://www.rivbike.com/products/thin-gripster-pedals-dark-grey-vp-001
>>
>> (Grim Hipsters instead of Thin Gripsters is from the Blug, so it's
>> official.)
>>
>> https://holdfastordie.com/
>>
>> 1. Have any of youse used these and those?
>>
>> 2. How well do the Hold Fasts work?
>>
>> 3. How well do the Hold Fasts work compared to clips and straps?
>>
>> 4. How would Thin Gripsters plus Hold Fasts work in (a) securing your
>> feet to a pedal continually moving because it is attached to a fixed
>> drivetrain; (b) letting you pull back or at least up, occasionally under
>> high load, as on a steep hill at very slow speeds; and then, comparing (a)
>> and (b) to MKS GR-9 pedals, Christophe clips, nice straps, strap cushions
>> or pads or whatever, and Toe Clip Buttons? That is, if you've gotten lost
>> in my cluster of clauses: (i) which would let you do a and b better, (ii)
>> which would allow easier entry and exit (I'm a dab hand at toe clip entry
>> and exit with the GR-9s); and (iii) which would be more comfortable overall?
>>
>> Patrick "clustering clauses clumsily coalesce creating conceptual cloaca"
>> Moore
>>
>> --
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>> 
>> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Grim Hipsters, Holdfasts

[Bill Lindsay]

Ooooh medical tape.  Maybe.  I'll rewatch the movie and make a judgement.  
Who's in the pool for:

Electrical tape
Scotch tape 
Newbaums

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Re: [RBW] Re: Grim Hipsters, Holdfasts

[Christopher Cote]

I always thought it was medical tape, the cloth stuff with glue so strong 
it would reopen the cut when you tried to pull it off.

Chris


On Saturday, July 29, 2017 at 5:12:47 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Patrick Moore implied that duct tape was employed to attach Daves feet to 
> the pedals during the Little 500 at the end of Breaking Away. 
>
> Without checking , I will wager the cost of a pair of HoldFast straps that 
> it was not duct tape, but masking tape.  
>
> Bill Pedal Pedant Lindsay
> El Cerrito Ca
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Grim Hipsters, Holdfasts

[Patrick Moore]

Sorry, only willing to wager the cost of a roll of masking tape.

On Sat, Jul 29, 2017 at 3:12 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> Patrick Moore implied that duct tape was employed to attach Daves feet to
> the pedals during the Little 500 at the end of Breaking Away.
>
> Without checking , I will wager the cost of a pair of HoldFast straps that
> it was not duct tape, but masking tape.
>
> Bill Pedal Pedant Lindsay
> El Cerrito Ca
>
> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Grim Hipsters, Holdfasts

[Bill Lindsay]

Patrick Moore implied that duct tape was employed to attach Daves feet to the 
pedals during the Little 500 at the end of Breaking Away. 

Without checking , I will wager the cost of a pair of HoldFast straps that it 
was not duct tape, but masking tape.  

Bill Pedal Pedant Lindsay
El Cerrito Ca

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Re: [RBW] Re: Grim Hipsters, Holdfasts

[Patrick Moore]

It let Dave Stoller win, but I expect more than Dave Stoller.

On Sat, Jul 29, 2017 at 2:19 PM, Garth  wrote:

>
>Duct tape will work !!!  It's the Xth wonder of the world you know
> ..
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Grim Hipsters, Holdfasts

[Patrick Moore]

Just for the record, "cloaca" means, archaically, "sewer", avian or not.

On Sat, Jul 29, 2017 at 2:08 PM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:

> You're becoming a conceptual bird?
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Saturday, July 29, 2017 at 1:57:28 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> Thems These And Those:
>>
>> https://www.rivbike.com/products/thin-gripster-pedals-dark-grey-vp-001
>>
>> (Grim Hipsters instead of Thin Gripsters is from the Blug, so it's
>> official.)
>>
>> https://holdfastordie.com/
>>
>> 1. Have any of youse used these and those?
>>
>> 2. How well do the Hold Fasts work?
>>
>> 3. How well do the Hold Fasts work compared to clips and straps?
>>
>> 4. How would Thin Gripsters plus Hold Fasts work in (a) securing your
>> feet to a pedal continually moving because it is attached to a fixed
>> drivetrain; (b) letting you pull back or at least up, occasionally under
>> high load, as on a steep hill at very slow speeds; and then, comparing (a)
>> and (b) to MKS GR-9 pedals, Christophe clips, nice straps, strap cushions
>> or pads or whatever, and Toe Clip Buttons? That is, if you've gotten lost
>> in my cluster of clauses: (i) which would let you do a and b better, (ii)
>> which would allow easier entry and exit (I'm a dab hand at toe clip entry
>> and exit with the GR-9s); and (iii) which would be more comfortable overall?
>>
>> Patrick "clustering clauses clumsily coalesce creating conceptual cloaca"
>> Moore
>>
>> --
>> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
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>> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
>> 
>> 
>> *Interested in trading resume, LinkedIn, and other writing work for
>> professional (professional) help with marketing and growing my resumes,
>> etc. business. Respondents should have considerable experience in helping
>> small, online businesses grow. Please contact me at
>> patric...@resumespecialties.com. Thanks.*
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Grim Hipsters, Holdfasts

[Patrick Moore]

A conceptually confused canary.

Ciao!

Catrick.

On Sat, Jul 29, 2017 at 2:08 PM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:

> You're becoming a conceptual bird?
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Saturday, July 29, 2017 at 1:57:28 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> Thems These And Those:
>>
>> https://www.rivbike.com/products/thin-gripster-pedals-dark-grey-vp-001
>>
>> (Grim Hipsters instead of Thin Gripsters is from the Blug, so it's
>> official.)
>>
>> https://holdfastordie.com/
>>
>> 1. Have any of youse used these and those?
>>
>> 2. How well do the Hold Fasts work?
>>
>> 3. How well do the Hold Fasts work compared to clips and straps?
>>
>> 4. How would Thin Gripsters plus Hold Fasts work in (a) securing your
>> feet to a pedal continually moving because it is attached to a fixed
>> drivetrain; (b) letting you pull back or at least up, occasionally under
>> high load, as on a steep hill at very slow speeds; and then, comparing (a)
>> and (b) to MKS GR-9 pedals, Christophe clips, nice straps, strap cushions
>> or pads or whatever, and Toe Clip Buttons? That is, if you've gotten lost
>> in my cluster of clauses: (i) which would let you do a and b better, (ii)
>> which would allow easier entry and exit (I'm a dab hand at toe clip entry
>> and exit with the GR-9s); and (iii) which would be more comfortable overall?
>>
>> Patrick "clustering clauses clumsily coalesce creating conceptual cloaca"
>> Moore
>>
>> --
>> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
>> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
>> Other professional writing services.
>> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
>> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
>> 
>> 
>> *Interested in trading resume, LinkedIn, and other writing work for
>> professional (professional) help with marketing and growing my resumes,
>> etc. business. Respondents should have considerable experience in helping
>> small, online businesses grow. Please contact me at
>> patric...@resumespecialties.com. Thanks.*
>>
>>
>>
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