Re: [RBW] Re: Heavy rider wheel issues
On Apr 20, 2010, at 2:06 PM, CycloFiend wrote: Hmmm... such spoke/failures (particularly without any pinch flatting) would point me back to looking at the dropout alignment or rear triangle alignment on the frame. You can get a sense of frame alignment with the string test described on Sheldon's site: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html You are running the right hubs for your frame spacing, right? That will give you the major alignment of the triangles bit not the alignment of the faces of the dropouts, which must be parallel to each other. You need a dropout gauge to check this. Good bike shops will always have them (although shops with them are not necessarily good) and all frame builders will have them. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Heavy rider wheel issues
on 4/20/10 4:36 AM, Thomas Lynn Skean at thomaslynnsk...@comcast.net wrote: > Question: a couple folks indicated that the 35mm @60 psi combination > was too low a pressure. Was that intended to suggest that higher > pressure would help avoid my wheel problems? That seems counter- > intuitive. I was just a bit suprised that you were having such significant wheel issues without pinch flatting. It struck me that while 60 psi may be giving you a smooth ride, the volume might be sub-optimal for your weight and distribution percentage. My own arrival at appropriate pressure is very subjective and reasonably personal - it's only recently that I came across Jan's publishing of the "15%" sag findings. Spreadsheet in xls format here - http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch/files?&sort=date Basically, for my trails and riding style, if the bike is bouncing, I back off the pressure until the tires just barely deflect on the hardest, nastiest edges that I hit at normal speeds. Then I sort of forget about it until they lose enough air that I feel them really compress on rocky edges. The worst wheel damage I've caused recently was courtesy of inattention, followed by sliding about a couple feet sideways down an embankment onto a paved roadway. Lots of side load and I hit the saddle hard as the bike hit pavement. Didn't pinch flat, but ganked the rim. This was _after_ smacking it back straightish... http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclofiend/2643604057/ The hub was fine, and the spokes were reused to a new rim. Which is sort of the way I'd expect failures to occur - tire/tube before rim before spoke before hub. Back in freewheel mtb days, I used to bend a goodly number of axles, but haven't in a while. > > Also, the "max" pressure on these tires is either 70 or 80 psi. While > the value of that figure as an absolute max is questionable, it > suggests to me that using 60psi is not all that unexpected. If the > suggestion is that I'm subject to pinch flats... well, to date all of > my flats have been due to either my ham-handedness changing a tire or > a Pasela sidewall failures (4 of those within 2000 miles). None have > been pinch flats or even road-hazard flats. And I've had no other tire > fail at all, so I think the Pasela failures are Panaracer's failures, > not mine. Of course, YMMV. Hmmm... such spoke/failures (particularly without any pinch flatting) would point me back to looking at the dropout alignment or rear triangle alignment on the frame. You can get a sense of frame alignment with the string test described on Sheldon's site: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html You are running the right hubs for your frame spacing, right? - Jim -- Jim Edgar cyclofi...@earthlink.net Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries - http://www.cyclofiend.com Current Classics - Cross Bikes Singlespeed - Working Bikes Get your photos posted: http://www.cyclofiend.com/guidelines "Then I sat up, wiped the water out of my eyes, and looked at my bike, and just like that I knew it was dead" -- Robert McCammon, "Boy's Life" -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Heavy rider wheel issues
On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 12:50 AM, happyriding wrote: > What I want to know is: do rims with non-machined side walls brake > worth a damn? Or, is the brake pad skipping all over the brake > surface and making a terrible racket? Has anyone used Velocity Dyad > rims before? Another data point: i have a set of XT/Dyad wheels i built myself for my cyclocross/commuter bike 4 years ago, and they've been excellent rims through racing seasons and thousands of miles of year-round riding. Nothing more than minor truing touch-up needed on them, and braking has been perfectly fine. I highly recommend it as a good rim for riding anything from about a 32mm tire on up. -- Bill Connell St. Paul, MN -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Heavy rider wheel issues
Recently (this weekend) I noticed that the rear wheel on my Big Dummy (XT hub, Mavic 319 rim) had play. Figuring that it's a year round commuter and it's been about a year since the hub and wheel were new, I yanked it apart, re-greased, adjusted, etc. Whoops. Stil play. Adjust the cones tighter (wow, that just seems like too much resistance). Still play. The next day I took the wheel back from whence it came. One of the mechanics could reproduce the play, the other could not. Suggestion: try without the Burley hitch. I get home and think, "gee, it's always been a tight fit in the rear dropout, I wonder...). With the help of a friend and a workstand, we noticed that with the QR removed, the axle was not seated fully in the dropout. A utility knife and judicious use of a file later (paint only, no metal removal), the axle now seats fully. Huh. But there's still play. This time, I ride back to the shop. Well, now they're able to reproduce the issue, yank the hub apart, re-grease, adjust, etc. Still play. The best guess is that the freehub body is not secured adequately to the hub. Since the bearing race is part of the freehub body, if the freehub is loose, well, there ya go. I stop at the local cheap tools place (Autozone) and pick up a 14MM allen key for a 1/2" socket. When I get home, I yank the thing apart again and sure enough, the fixing bolt for the freehub was not tight (don't worry, I didn't hamfist it and was judicious in how much torque I was applying). Now, I get the hub back together, adjust correctly (now that feels like the bearings are smooth!), secure the wheel again, and now I have smooth spinning and no play. So, the moral of this story is that you should definitely check the alignment of the axle in the dropouts, the alignment of the dropouts themselves and other things that you wouldn't expect to be loose, like the freehub body. It's unclear if having the axle not seated fully in the dropouts caused or aggravated any of my issues, or if it's my propensity to sprint from stoplights on a really huge bike, but in the future, you can bet that I will always shave paint from the inside of the dropouts of any new or repainted frame and check for axle play every week. --dlloyd -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Heavy rider wheel issues
Regarding the question about Velocity Dyad rims: I built up a set of wheels for my touring bike (Trek 520) with a Schmidt front hub and an XT rear. Have been using them for more than a year with no problems. I like them a lot and plan to use them on my planned Hunquapillar. Steve Hemmelgarn From: happyriding To: RBW Owners Bunch Sent: Tue, April 20, 2010 1:50:41 AM Subject: [RBW] Re: Heavy rider wheel issues You might want to browse around Peter White's website, and see what he has to say about wheels: http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/Wheels.asp I imagine that if you are going to get a Sam Hillborne, Rivendell is going to recommend either the Velocity Dyad or Mavic 719 rims. The Velocity Dyad's do not have a machined side wall. Machined side walls are created by removing metal to smooth out the braking surface, which potentially weakens the rim(although manufacturers can start with a thicker piece of aluminum in anticipation that part of the surface will be shaved off). Grant has written about how he prefers non- machined side walls for strength. What I want to know is: do rims with non-machined side walls brake worth a damn? Or, is the brake pad skipping all over the brake surface and making a terrible racket? Has anyone used Velocity Dyad rims before? Thanks. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Heavy rider wheel issues
It was about 15 years ago, so I don't recall :-) I think it was a T217, does that sound right? Their heavy touring rim at the time (mid-90's). The Dyad had me worried as it doesn't have eyelets, but that has been a non-issue. On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 11:15 PM, happyriding wrote: > On Apr 19, 11:54 pm, cyclotourist wrote: > > Have one (Dyad) on our tandem and works fine. It was the replacement for > > the Mavic rim that failed. > > > > Do you notice any difference in braking? Was that a Mavic A719? > > Thanks. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > -- Cheers, David Redlands, CA "Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym." ~Bill Nye, scientist guy -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Heavy rider wheel issues
Have one (Dyad) on our tandem and works fine. It was the replacement for the Mavic rim that failed. On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:50 PM, happyriding wrote: > You might want to browse around Peter White's website, and see what he > has to say about wheels: > > http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/Wheels.asp > > I imagine that if you are going to get a Sam Hillborne, Rivendell is > going to recommend either the Velocity Dyad or Mavic 719 rims. The > Velocity Dyad's do not have a machined side wall. Machined side walls > are created by removing metal to smooth out the braking surface, which > potentially weakens the rim(although manufacturers can start with a > thicker piece of aluminum in anticipation that part of the surface > will be shaved off). Grant has written about how he prefers non- > machined side walls for strength. > > What I want to know is: do rims with non-machined side walls brake > worth a damn? Or, is the brake pad skipping all over the brake > surface and making a terrible racket? Has anyone used Velocity Dyad > rims before? > > Thanks. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > -- Cheers, David Redlands, CA "Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym." ~Bill Nye, scientist guy -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Heavy rider wheel issues
On Mon, 2010-04-19 at 12:42 -0700, James Dinneen wrote: > Are 7 speed cassett > 7 speed cassettes are indeed available, and in all the original combinations. The silver finish HG70s are starting to become discontinued, but the black HG50s are readily available -- and they're all pretty cheap compared to 9 or 10 speed cassettes. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Heavy rider wheel issues
Are 7 speed cassett or freewheels readily available? I thought that 7 and 8 speeds were getting hard to find. Jim D. Massachusetts --- On Mon, 4/19/10, rperks wrote: From: rperks Subject: [RBW] Re: Heavy rider wheel issues To: "RBW Owners Bunch" Date: Monday, April 19, 2010, 3:03 PM Get Rich to build up a Phil freewheel hub dishless, 36 spokes and 7 speed. This should last you a very long time, and in my opinion is one of the best values in the wheel market at the moment. - Rob On Apr 19, 10:02 am, Thomas Lynn Skean wrote: > Hi, all. I seek counsel. > > I weigh about 250 lbs. I often carry 10-15 lbs on a rear rack. I ride > a Trek hybrid, sitting bolt-upright. (By the way, this Trek is about > as Riv'd up as any Trek could be. Actual Riv relevance: Later this > year I'll also be riding a Hillborne and any counsel I receive will > apply to it for sure; maybe/maybe-not for the Trek. Also, the riding I > do is very much non-clubby, non-race-y, and non-trivial in distance; > this seems to match up with Riv philosophy and thus seems appropriate > for this group.) I use 700x35 tires on 32- or 36-spoke wheels at about > 60 psi. I ride 70-100 miles/week 12 months a year (I bet that'll rise > when I get the Hillborne), over half on limestone trail. I'm actually > pretty easy on the bike in general, avoiding obstacles/rough path > where practical, lifting the wheel and slowing down when I don't avoid > the hazard. > > My problem is that I haven't gotten more than 1000 miles on any rear > wheel without complete failure (cracked hub, bent axle) or the need > for repair (hub overhaul, multiple spoke breakage, rim *way* out-of- > true-or-round). The wheels I've used include some cheapies and some > good ones. Some were better to use than others. But all were okay to > use (until they failed :( ). More wheel details later. > > My preliminary question is: should I simply expect to have these > problems every thousand (or two) miles? That is, will I likely have > problems like these at that rate no matter *what* wheel I have? If so, > then my plan will likely be to go for a value proposition instead of a > reliability one. That is, I'll settle with a cheap wheel, always > having a backup, knowing that I'll have to replace/repair/adjust more > often than I'd like. That'd be okay, I guess... though it seems wrong > in some profound way; after all, I've literally never *had* to replace > any of my non-Pasela tires. I've put at least 3000 miles on my most > recent set and still *could* use the originals the Trek came with. (I > went through 4 Paselas in short order, with all of them failing in the > same way with a sidewall eruption. Too bad. I liked the gum sidewall > look.) > > However, if these wheel problems are avoidable (yes, yes... I know... > losing 80-90 pounds would go a long way; let's assume that's not > happening short-term), what kind of wheel will avoid them? Wheels I've > used thus far include: > > --- Shimano RM60 (Alivio-ish?) hub / 32 2|1.8|2mm spokes / cheapish > Alex rim - lasted about 1000 miles before breaking spokes, eventually > on 3 rides in a row > > --- 105 hub / 36 2mm spokes / Sun CR18 rim - lasted maybe a little > over 1000 miles before 4 holes-worth of drive-side hub snapped off of > the hub body > > --- Deore hub / 32 2mm spokes / Sun CR18 rim - lasted maybe 400 miles > before breaking spokes on 3 or 4 rides in a row (had 2 of these on the > the theory that the first one was not "prepped" properly... 2nd one > was no different with "prep") - eventually I bent an axle on one of > these, the other one (having been re-laced and re-trued and > overhauled) is now my snow/ice wheel and will see little mileage > > --- XT hub / 36 2|1.7|2mm spokes / Velocity Synergy OC rim - lasted > around 1000 miles before periodic ka-tink ka-tink noise appeared in > the hub; am currently looking into whether this is a fatal problem or > simply a maintenance issue > > Now, if the current XT-hubbed wheel's problems turn out to be readily > solvable (adjustment of bearings, regreasing, something like that) > then I'm happy to stay with this kind of wheel. The spokes seem to > maintain tension reasonably well and the rim has only minor touch-up > every few hundred miles to keep it very true and round. I like the > fact that the drive-side spokes are not *that* much more tight than > the non-drive side because of the asymmetry. > > However, if it turns out that it *is* a fatal or unacceptably-severe > problem (and surely one can appreciate my pessimism on this matter), I > wonder: What sort of wheel do I need? > > I don't want to needlessly ride a wheel with 48 spokes and a 3 pound > hub (exaggerating, perhaps... but still... you get the point). But I > will ride a 48-spoke-3-pound-hub-wheel if that's the only way to avoid > these problems. Nor do I want to pay $500+ if a $200 wheel will give > me a reasonable level of reliability with reasonable ride quality. > Let's assume for ar
