Re: [RBW] Re: Leah's Bicycle Bus! (and question)

[Deacon Patrick]

That Back-a-Bike bottom buckle isn't weight bearing and, as Doug points 
out, prevents flapping. Flapping and clapping panniers may not be an issue 
for you, so you could either go without connecting the bottom buckle (at 
least it's a sewn on buckle on my lassie's bags) or you can clip it round 
any part of the rack/frame that doesn't interfere with the chain. I often 
just secure my panniers at the top of the rack for grocery runs, and that 
includes some jouncy and bouncy dirt, so you'll be fine just anchoring the 
top of the bags. Also, you can get in and out of the panniers with a loaded 
SaddleSack, it's just a bit of work.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Wednesday, August 31, 2016 at 9:06:44 PM UTC-6, LeahFoy wrote:
>
>
> I'll take a closer look at the rack tomorrow, but I think I'm stuck. If I 
> lower the bag, the clip on bottom that secures the bag to the rack becomes 
> too low. It sits lower than the rack and there is nothing for it to grab 
> onto. The little backpack gets one Backabike.The huge backpack will never 
> fit in the other Backabike. It has to go in the basket or rear rack, I 
> think. The Chromebook will probably go in the other Backabike bag when he 
> gets it next week. I guess I need another bag for ME . 
>
> Leah, who feels every pleasure center in her brain light up over bags

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Re: [RBW] Re: Leah's Bicycle Bus! (and question)

[Takashi]

Leah, I've been enjoying reading your great story. Thanks for sharing!

About Backabike Bags:
I think there are loops on your bags through which you can run straps.
You can secure the bottom of your bags to the rack with John's Irish Straps 
which Riv sells.
(ANY strap will work for that matter, but Irish Straps are best-looking, 
right?)
Attached picture is of my Hunqapillar with Hub Area Bags on front, smaller 
version of Backabike Bags, secured with Irish Straps.

Good luck.
I'm looking forward to reading more of your stories.

Takshi





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Re: [RBW] Re: Leah's Bicycle Bus! (and question)

[dougP]

" If I lower the bag, the clip on bottom that secures the bag to the rack 
becomes too low. It sits lower than the rack and there is nothing for it to 
grab onto."

Got it.  Any way to secure the bag to the rack with a bungee around it, 
down low?  The idea at the bottom is to keep the bag from flapping outward 
from the rack.  

dougP

On Wednesday, August 31, 2016 at 8:06:44 PM UTC-7, LeahFoy wrote:
>
> Doug, you know what? The rubber on the Specialized's tires IS dry and 
> brittle-feeling! We got the bike Easter of his 1st grade year and he is now 
> a 5th grader. Yikes. Ok, I'll take it in this weekend. The Islabike is new 
> and should be fine. My tires are from 2012. I have wondered how I will know 
> when it's time. I don't think they feel as bad as the Specialized, though. 
>
> I'll take a closer look at the rack tomorrow, but I think I'm stuck. If I 
> lower the bag, the clip on bottom that secures the bag to the rack becomes 
> too low. It sits lower than the rack and there is nothing for it to grab 
> onto. The little backpack gets one Backabike.The huge backpack will never 
> fit in the other Backabike. It has to go in the basket or rear rack, I 
> think. The Chromebook will probably go in the other Backabike bag when he 
> gets it next week. I guess I need another bag for ME . 
>
> Leah, who feels every pleasure center in her brain light up over bags

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Re: [RBW] Re: Leah's Bicycle Bus! (and question)

[LeahFoy]

Doug, you know what? The rubber on the Specialized's tires IS dry and 
brittle-feeling! We got the bike Easter of his 1st grade year and he is now a 
5th grader. Yikes. Ok, I'll take it in this weekend. The Islabike is new and 
should be fine. My tires are from 2012. I have wondered how I will know when 
it's time. I don't think they feel as bad as the Specialized, though.

I'll take a closer look at the rack tomorrow, but I think I'm stuck. If I lower 
the bag, the clip on bottom that secures the bag to the rack becomes too low. 
It sits lower than the rack and there is nothing for it to grab onto. The 
little backpack gets one Backabike.The huge backpack will never fit in the 
other Backabike. It has to go in the basket or rear rack, I think. The 
Chromebook will probably go in the other Backabike bag when he gets it next 
week. I guess I need another bag for ME .

Leah, who feels every pleasure center in her brain light up over bags

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Re: [RBW] Re: Leah's Bicycle Bus! (and question)

[dougP]

104 degrees, plus humidity!  That's really tough. You guys are all troopers 
but esp. those kids.  That break in the shade looks inviting.  

The loading problem is common when you have both panniers & a trunk bag or 
saddlebag.  The idea of the lower (second) set of rails on the rack is to 
separate the side bags from the top bag.  It sounds like the backabike ones 
don't allow this?  Do they go on the lower rail?  Ideally you'd get one 
kid's worth of school stuff in each pannier & have the front basket for 
your stuff, maybe not have to mess with the saddlebag.  

RE:  kids bikes conditions:  if those tires are typical kids bike tires & 
they've been baking in the garage in southern Nevada for a few years it 
would be wise to replace them, worn or not.  Even if they hold air, the 
rubber is aged & brittle.  Look at it this way:  $100 at the LBS is a lot 
cheaper, more convenient & less stressful than a trip to the ER, and they 
can check the rest of the bike over, i.e., brake cables, other crash 
inducing stuff (ever seen a kid's pedal fall off?).  

Even if you have to take the van part way, you & crew will be cycling away 
from the madness.  My wife & I do a regular ride on Wednesdays that takes 
us by 2 schools.  In our district, the kids are out at 1:30 on Wednesdays.  
Nothing like massive SUVs and not-so-mini vans jockeying for pole position 
in the kid pick-up zone.  

dougP

On Wednesday, August 31, 2016 at 6:05:44 PM UTC-7, LeahFoy wrote:
>
> Ah, the Bicycle Bus. Thanks for asking! T is out of it for now, pending a 
> new bike purchase and/or better ways of carrying her load. The pair of 
> sisters will be back at it again in the morning. I asked Mom to replace 
> that tire; she said she would refill it again and see if it holds. No word 
> on that, but I’m a bit scared to take that child on that lousy bike down 
> that huge hill again. 
>
> We biked every trip until this afternoon. It was dreadfully hot (104) and 
> humid to boot. That was a losing combination and not worth the risk of heat 
> exhaustion. We did do the morning commute but for afternoon I parked off 
> campus and took the boys and their bikes home in the van. 
>
> It was really too bad, because this afternoon I got my Nitto Big Back Rack 
> AND my Backabike bags on the bike! I plan to take photos tomorrow when I’m 
> not in cleaning clothes and we’re out on the road again. I think Little 
> Guy’s backpack will fit in one Backabike, and I will stow my own stuff in 
> the other. The big backpack can either go in the front basket or maybe I 
> can lash it to the rear rack. We’ll see. There was some wailing and 
> gnashing of teeth when I realized I couldn’t also use my Saddlesack - I 
> couldn’t open the Backabike bags. I really don’t know how I got this 
> ridiculous, but maybe I have Rivendellitis, which is characterized by 
> attempts to employ all your Riv stuff at once and then stare lovingly at it 
> while proclaiming this is the best setup yet!
>
> We have a new family joining us on the Bicycle Bus next week! Lots of 
> other people have stopped to chat about biking and how maybe they should, 
> as well. As I waited on campus today, there were cars honking and angry 
> drivers doing their best to show their frustration and other drivers trying 
> to cut in line while the harassed-looking crossing guard volunteers tried 
> to regulate the mess. So grateful for my bike!!!
>
> PS Here are some photos from yesterday, before my new bags and rack. 
> PPS I had to attach my Backabikes to the top rail of my rack. The bottom 
> clip won’t work if I string the bags on the pannier rails. Anyone else have 
> this issue? Am I doing it wrong or what?
>
> 1. Looking down the hill we just climbed. We're halfway done!
> [image: image1.JPG]
>
> 2. Resting. Then more climbing. 101 degrees and only that one cloud in the 
> sky! Troopers![image: image2.JPG]
>
> 3. The grips I shellacked and twined.
> [image: image3.JPG]
>
> 4. My now unusable Saddlesack.  Too much stuff in the front basket.
> [image: image4.JPG]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Aug 31, 2016, at 5:17 PM, Deacon Patrick  > wrote:
>
> How progresses the Bicycle Bus?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Leah's Bicycle Bus! (and question)

[Deacon Patrick]

With your exuberant, happy-go-lucky, slap-stick comedy on wheels you'll 
have those cars lines down to nothing sooner than later! Grin.

You CAN use the SaddleSack with panniers, but the panniers are awkward to 
access, so load them with stuff you don't mind having difficulty accessing 
(aka when the saddlesack is less loaded, aka at home or school, but not 
during the ride, if that makes sense). I've does this setup bikepacking and 
loved it, just keeping stuff in the panniers I needed at camp.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Wednesday, August 31, 2016 at 7:05:44 PM UTC-6, LeahFoy wrote:
>
> Ah, the Bicycle Bus. Thanks for asking! T is out of it for now, pending a 
> new bike purchase and/or better ways of carrying her load. The pair of 
> sisters will be back at it again in the morning. I asked Mom to replace 
> that tire; she said she would refill it again and see if it holds. No word 
> on that, but I’m a bit scared to take that child on that lousy bike down 
> that huge hill again. 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Leah's Bicycle Bus! (and question)

[franklyn]

When I read the title of the thread, I thought of this story on 
BikePortland a few years back: 


Mom carrying 6 kids in her bike. 


Best,
Franklyn

On Monday, August 29, 2016 at 2:23:19 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> I look forward to other photos. Nostalgia follows; bail out now while you 
> have a chance.
>
> Reminiscing about my own elementary school boyhood (Oh! So long ago!), I 
> recall carpooling in rather (at the time; now very much so) declasse 
> Clinton, MD, Prince George's county MD, where we lived for 4 years until my 
> father was transferred overseas. St, John the Evangelist RC parish started 
> its school in 1961, when I entered 1st grade. We carpooled between my 
> father (Renault Dauphine! -- sold the Peugeot 403 hoping to net some cash) 
> swapped transport duties with my best friend's mother (excessively large 
> Irish Catholic working class family) late '50s Ford SW) and another 
> aspiring white collar professional (vague 7 year old recollections of 
> semi-Euro compact and pretty 9 year old babe daughter). 
>
> But what about the setup below? I recall seeing many such transportation 
> arrangements in Bangalore when we lived there, 1st Q 1966 - end of 2d Q 
> 1967. I remember hailing a rickshaw to carry me home from my 2d Form (7th 
> grade) classes at St. Josephs (Jesuit) in Bangalore (the Prods went to 
> Bishop Cotton) -- odd, because usually my father's driver picked me up, 
> next stopping at the local Sacred Heart franchise to pick up my sisters and 
> little bro --at any rate, the skinny old man who pedaled the rickshaw was 
> very irate because he had to pedal me all the way to Palace Orchards, then 
> a dirt-road wilderness some (I guess) 7-8 miles from the school. I recall 
> having to argue with him and chivvy him along as we got further and further 
> from the downtown school. I myself started my long career of bike commuting 
> shortly afterward, when my parents let me ride my pimped Hero rod braked 
> roadster to school, and park it with all the other students' and staffs' 
> bikes in the Bike Shed (where I dangerously kick started the PT Teacher's 
> Vespa, then -- thank God! -- discovered the kill switch before he appeared 
> with bamboo cane in hand). 
>
>
> [image: Inline image 1]
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Leah's Bicycle Bus! (and question)

[Leah Peterson]

I only have three kids on the ride home. Flat Tire and her sister are tossing 
their bikes in the back of Dad’s pick up. Sweet relief! I so agree with you on 
the parents needing to take some responsibility. I’m going to talk to Raleigh 
Girl’s mom first because her family will probably not bat an eye at paying for 
a new rack or a new bike. The other family will be more difficult. I’ll have to 
choose my methods carefully…

John, one does not ride another bike when one has The Best Bike in the Whole 
Wide World! No matter how ill-equipped! Haha!

Patrick wanted more photos, and I’ll get those this week, Patrick, but every 
one I took today had identifying info (street names, school name), and since 
they aren’t my kids, I won’t post those. I’ll get some more anonymous shots 
this week, I hope. But here’s a photo of the cars trying to LEAVE campus this 
morning. Flat tire or not, we got the less frustrating end of the deal!










> On Aug 29, 2016, at 12:54 PM, dougP  wrote:
> 
> Hope the afternoon run goes well, but you still have that bike with the flat 
> tire waiting for you.  I think each family needs to be responsible for their 
> student's load carrying as well as bike condition.  Just digging their old 
> bike out of the cobwebs & pumping up the tires isn't enough.  If you're on 
> the street with this group, the bikes need to have been serviced (cables? 
> brakes? chains?) and the kids need to have some idea of what their supposed 
> to be doing.  With a wide disparity in ages will come a wide variety of 
> average speeds, esp on that uphill run home in the heat.  Maybe a Saturday 
> get together with all the families?  A couple of practice runs?  All things 
> considered it's a great idea and you're doing a good thing by shepherding 
> these kids to school.  
> 
> dougP
> 
> On Monday, August 29, 2016 at 9:16:46 AM UTC-7, Surlyprof wrote:
> I would tend to agree with the trailer idea as well.  We used a Chariot for a 
> while and it worked quite well and several friends use the BOB Yak.  The BOBs 
> are nice because they easily hang in a garage when not in use but it is 
> expensive.  We bought the Chariot at one of the REI garage sales for a 
> fraction of the retail price (maybe $75?).  Later, we sold it on craigslist 
> for a profit (Not profiteers... we honestly forgot how much we had paid for 
> it.)  Worked for kids, dogs and errands.  The nice thing about the trailer is 
> that it doesn't effect your pleasure riding.  There is often a simple 
> attachment piece that attaches to the axle or seatpost depending on the 
> brand.  It was very easy to take on and off.  I'd do a little research to 
> identify a few trailers that would work and then surf your local classifieds, 
> craigslist or online sales.  A quick search of the REI Garage (previously 
> Outlet) showed no trailers but they might in the future 
> (https://www.rei.com/rei-garage/search?q=trailer=84=outlet-only=q%3Atrailer=true
>  
> ).
> 
> Good luck with the school year.
> John (also back in the classroom after a pleasant summer)
> 
> On Friday, August 26, 2016 at 2:27:25 PM UTC-7, LeahFoy wrote:
> School begins on Monday, and we have before us a number of challenges. The 
> school is in its second year, and it has exploded in population. There was 
> nearly no parking to begin with, and with the second school in the 
> neighborhood also convening in the morning and with the canyon's whole 
> workforce trying to get out for their 25 minute commute with but one single 
> road that we all must share, biking is a NO-BRAINER. But nearly no one, 
> excepting us, has done it. The school is 2 miles from my door (too far to 
> walk), all downhill to school, and all uphill on the way home. The hill is so 
> steep that a child really needs brakes of good quality for the downhill, and 
> a bike that isn't too heavy (these are just kids, remember) and has GEARS for 
> the way uphill. Also ideal would be a bottle cage for water since we live in 
> Vegas and a rack. But a rack is probably asking too much.
> I mentor the junior high girls from church (I heart teenagers!), and one of 
> my little favorites, L,  will attend our school. She and her little sister 
> plan to use their electric scooter and bike to join us. She babysits a boy 
> who will ride with us on his own bike. Another family I'm acquainted with 
> asked if their 5th grader could join us. As I was leaving campus after the 
> meet and greet today, I heard L yell, "Leah! We have some more coming!"
> 
> "More what?" I asked.
> "More girls!" she called.
> "Riding bikes?" I asked, incredulous.
> "Yes, my mom's getting all their information, I'll tell you later!"
> 
> So, there you have it. Leah's Bicycle Bus is born!
> 
> You might imagine I have some anxiety about the logistics. Even more about 
> the liability. I have a plan worked out, and I'll tweak it as need arises.
> 
> 

Re: [RBW] Re: Leah's Bicycle Bus! (and question)

[Deacon Patrick]

Panniers and you're good then!

With abandon,
Patrick

On Friday, August 26, 2016 at 6:08:23 PM UTC-6, LeahFoy wrote:
>
>  Not a trailer up that hill, too!!!
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Leah's Bicycle Bus! (and question)

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Riv gearing was made to pull trailers up hills! (By the way, John up there 
mentioned it first.) And think how fast you will go up that hill when the 
trailer is not attached!

Re: Backabike bags. I love mine, the best bicycle accessory I've bought in 
years. A pleasure to use, and I use them a number of times almost every 
day. I regularly carry 25 to 35 pounds, books, heavy stuff--and they will 
fit a laptop. But they are not the bags to get if you are planning lots of 
on and off. I would not even want to do it once a week. Not that it's all 
that difficult, or takes all that much time. But on-off lots is not really 
in its design dna. I use them in combination with cloth shopping bags and a 
Jumbo grab sack--sort of a liner concept. It may not directly help, but I 
took a couple pics for a fellow iBob/RBW who asked about Jumbo capacity a 
while back:















On Friday, August 26, 2016 at 8:08:23 PM UTC-4, LeahFoy wrote:
>
> Bill - I like your idea, but I worry about overloading the 30 lb on the 
> rack. Maybe it will be ok, though. Do you find the Backabike to be roomy? 
> Are they awkward on the bike? Easy to take off or not? I'm including a pic 
> of my current set-up.
>
> I can't see myself hauling a trailer on that uphill, guys. And I don't 
> mean to carry the neighborhood kids' stuff completely, only in dire 
> situations. I will carry my boys' stuff, though. I'm 135, the bike isn't 
> light, and I've got a lot of pounds in cargo (oh, and sometimes, a dog!). 
> Not a trailer up that hill, too!!!
> [image: image1.JPG]
> [image: image2.JPG]
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 26, 2016, at 3:14 PM, Bill Lindsay  
> wrote:
>
> Do you have bags on the sides of the front rack?  I'm running the Big 
> Front rack on my Appaloosa.  I have the huge Wald Basket with the Large 
> shopsack on top and the Large Backabike panniers on the sides.  Here's a 
> shot of an S24O setup, with the bike weighing about 75lbs.  
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/26121289280
>
> A Big Rear would allow another set of panniers plus a large saddlesack if 
> necessary.  
>
> On Friday, August 26, 2016 at 2:27:25 PM UTC-7, LeahFoy wrote:
>>
>> School begins on Monday, and we have before us a number of challenges. 
>> The school is in its second year, and it has exploded in population. There 
>> was nearly no parking to begin with, and with the second school in the 
>> neighborhood also convening in the morning and with the canyon's whole 
>> workforce trying to get out for their 25 minute commute with but one single 
>> road that we all must share, biking is a NO-BRAINER. But nearly no one, 
>> excepting us, has done it. The school is 2 miles from my door (too far to 
>> walk), all downhill to school, and all uphill on the way home. The hill is 
>> so steep that a child really needs brakes of good quality for the downhill, 
>> and a bike that isn't too heavy (these are just kids, remember) and has 
>> GEARS for the way uphill. Also ideal would be a bottle cage for water since 
>> we live in Vegas and a rack. But a rack is probably asking too much. 
>>
>> I mentor the junior high girls from church (I heart teenagers!), and one 
>> of my little favorites, L,  will attend our school. She and her little 
>> sister plan to use their electric scooter and bike to join us. She babysits 
>> a boy who will ride with us on his own bike. Another family I'm acquainted 
>> with asked if their 5th grader could join us. As I was leaving campus after 
>> the meet and greet today, I heard L yell, "Leah! We have some more coming!" 
>>
>> "More what?" I asked.
>> "More girls!" she called.
>> "Riding bikes?" I asked, incredulous.
>> "Yes, my mom's getting all their information, I'll tell you later!"
>>
>> So, there you have it. Leah's Bicycle Bus is born! 
>>
>> You might imagine I have some anxiety about the logistics. Even more 
>> about the liability. I have a plan worked out, and I'll tweak it as need 
>> arises. 
>>
>> Now, for the question.
>>
>> My only-5th grade-son has been reclassified as a middle-schooler. He must 
>> carry all his books/folders/etc in his backpack. They tell me, "Oh, and 
>> here's his Chromebook for the year. It goes home with him every night." 
>>
>> SERIOUSLY? 
>>
>> My Betty Foy has a 

Re: [RBW] Re: Leah's Bicycle Bus! (and question)

[Jeff Lesperance]

I tend to agree that a bike trailer is a pretty darn good solution for your
use case. If you do decide to go the pannier route, I have a spare set that
I have not been putting to good use since I picked them up from a fellow
listmate a little while back - they're Swift Industries waxed canvas
tan/maroon. I've been watching them hang around in my parts bin thinking
I'll use 'em more some day but I use my Carradice Camper saddlebag daily
and for s24o's and when I go longer I tend to use my matching set of four
Ortliebs.

Here's a link to pics listmate John took, and they still look the same now:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/jbusteed/sets/72157660475769437/

If they'd look right for your bike and give you the function you need I
could pass them along for under $100 as John got them to me at a really
nice deal - we could just sort out shipping to figure out the right deal.

-Jeff
Silver Spring, MD

On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 6:35 PM, 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> I think possibly your best bet is a used bike trailer hooked up to the
> Betty engine. Maybe not as sexy as some other options, but hey, it's a
> school bus, and you can often get them cheap. As kids join the train, they
> can simply toss in their backpacks, books, whatever, saddle up, get in the
> paceline, and then grab 'em right out at the school. No fussing with
> opening and closing bags, buying expensive stuff, whose thing is in what
> etc. No worries about kids precariously loading their bikes. (Though the
> older ones should be schooled in rackage and baggage. A good after school
> activity.) I have a Cycle Tote that would be perfect for this--basically a
> big open box with soft canvas sides. Has a thing for when it rains. Even a
> basic kid's Burley would be fine. Also good as a traffic calming device for
> the trip. And it goes on/comes off in under a minute. Maybe a few of the
> parents will even help fund it, since you will be saving them the hassle
> and trip! Or apply for a Bike Train To School grant!
>
>
> On Friday, August 26, 2016 at 5:27:25 PM UTC-4, LeahFoy wrote:
>>
>> School begins on Monday, and we have before us a number of challenges.
>> The school is in its second year, and it has exploded in population. There
>> was nearly no parking to begin with, and with the second school in the
>> neighborhood also convening in the morning and with the canyon's whole
>> workforce trying to get out for their 25 minute commute with but one single
>> road that we all must share, biking is a NO-BRAINER. But nearly no one,
>> excepting us, has done it. The school is 2 miles from my door (too far to
>> walk), all downhill to school, and all uphill on the way home. The hill is
>> so steep that a child really needs brakes of good quality for the downhill,
>> and a bike that isn't too heavy (these are just kids, remember) and has
>> GEARS for the way uphill. Also ideal would be a bottle cage for water since
>> we live in Vegas and a rack. But a rack is probably asking too much.
>>
>> I mentor the junior high girls from church (I heart teenagers!), and one
>> of my little favorites, L,  will attend our school. She and her little
>> sister plan to use their electric scooter and bike to join us. She babysits
>> a boy who will ride with us on his own bike. Another family I'm acquainted
>> with asked if their 5th grader could join us. As I was leaving campus after
>> the meet and greet today, I heard L yell, "Leah! We have some more coming!"
>>
>> "More what?" I asked.
>> "More girls!" she called.
>> "Riding bikes?" I asked, incredulous.
>> "Yes, my mom's getting all their information, I'll tell you later!"
>>
>> So, there you have it. Leah's Bicycle Bus is born!
>>
>> You might imagine I have some anxiety about the logistics. Even more
>> about the liability. I have a plan worked out, and I'll tweak it as need
>> arises.
>>
>> Now, for the question.
>>
>> My only-5th grade-son has been reclassified as a middle-schooler. He must
>> carry all his books/folders/etc in his backpack. They tell me, "Oh, and
>> here's his Chromebook for the year. It goes home with him every night."
>>
>> SERIOUSLY?
>>
>> My Betty Foy has a Nitto Big Front Rack with the biggest Wald they make.
>> The back has a lighter duty rack that was acting as a support for my medium
>> Saddlesack. This is not going to carry both sons' bags and lunches now that
>> my "middle-schooler" must schlep around everything he owns. Also, what
>> happens if one of the neighborhood kids needs me to haul something?  I
>> called Riv and Will listened and we both thought I would need the Big Back
>> Rack, so I ordered it. Now, I wonder if I should continue to use my medium
>> saddlesack or if I should order the large. Or maybe just add
>> Back-a-Bike-bags, which are out of stock for now. Will suggested:
>> http://www.carsickdesigns.com/products/large-pannier-set but I don't
>> love them very much.
>>
>> Someone chime in and tell me what's the best