Re: [RBW] Re: Long-low for sale in SF Craigslist
While we're strolling down memory lane, I find it ironic that when Grant transitioned from Waterford to Joe S (and Curt G and other individual builders), he had to make a pretty hard sell. I think back then, many people, myself included, saw Waterford as the established and having the best manufacturing facility, and questioned whether a less-known single builder would be up to the task. Now we believe that Waterford is a production shop, and the single-builder artisan bikes show more craftsmanship, attention to detail, are one-offs, etc. Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/4yFC7Hcc2qwJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Long-low for sale in SF Craigslist
I think what a lot of us who were following didn't know at the time was that the frames called Rivendell were moving up to a higher level. During and before the switch away from Waterford for the frames called Rivendell, the frames were not called custom. In hindsight, it is easy to see the hierarchy of the frames that followed (custom, Toyo-built, eventual production-Waterford-built, etc.), but no way to see that at the time. - Jim W. On Nov 11, 2011, at 9:52 AM, Greg J wrote: While we're strolling down memory lane, I find it ironic that when Grant transitioned from Waterford to Joe S (and Curt G and other individual builders), he had to make a pretty hard sell. I think back then, many people, myself included, saw Waterford as the established and having the best manufacturing facility, and questioned whether a less-known single builder would be up to the task. Now we believe that Waterford is a production shop, and the single-builder artisan bikes show more craftsmanship, attention to detail, are one-offs, etc. Greg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/4yFC7Hcc2qwJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Long-low for sale in SF Craigslist
On Nov 10, 2011, at 1:00 PM, tdusky wrote: The canti long-lows were called all all-arounders. I have a 1996 All-Rounder and it is not the same bike as a Long-Low. The original All-Rounders were all 26 wheel bikes with cantis and were based on the ideas behind the Bridgestone XO-1. It was designed to allow the use of 2 knobbies down to 1 slicks. The All-Rounder was one of the first three original Rivendell models (Road, Mountain and All-Rounder). The A/R used (IIRC) larger a diameter top tube but I think the same diameter down tube as the Road, whereas I think the Mountain used oversize top and down tubes (could be wrong about that, my recollection about those details is fuzzy). The Long-Lows came along a year or two later, I think about the time I placed my order (I vaguely recall Grant alerting me to the new model in between my placing the order and production starting. I stuck with the A/R but in retrospect should have gone with the Long-Low for the uses I have ended up putting it to). The Long-Lows were 700C bikes with long-reach sidepulls, although as some folks have mentioned they could be ordered with cantis; I don't remember if that was an option from the get-go. They were designed as road bikes with a lot of clearance for fenders and/or fat tires, much more so than the Road model of the day. They had a lower BB and a longer wheelbase (hence Long-Low) than the Roads but used (IIRC) the same tubing. None of the original 3 models or the Long-Low were initially conceived of as custom frames. However, Grant started doing tweaks for individual uyers early on and pretty quickly the bikes became customs. In those days it was all 753 with 531 forks nostalgic sigh. The Atlantis is a several-years-later bike based mostly on the All-Rounder and the XO-1 before it. My recollection is that the first run or two of the Atlantis used 26 wheels on all sizes and then later 26 on the smaller bikes and 700C on the larger sizes (smart idea). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Long-low for sale in SF Craigslist
-Original Message- Subject: [RBW] Re: Long-low for sale in SF Craigslist The canti long-lows were called all all-arounders. This is not correct. The All-Rounder and the Longlow were two different frames with two different geometries. The All-Rounder was closer to proper touring with longer chainstays and 26 wheels in the smaller sizes. The Longlow was always considered a 700C road bike, sport-touring bike actually, with longer chainstays than the mainstream, but still shorter than a proper tourer like the All-Rounder. All-Rounder is like Atlantis and Longlow is like Rambouillet. The fact that some Longlows came with cantis did not change the distinctions above, so a canti-Longlow was not called an All-Rounder, at least not with a capital A-R. If stated lower case, as in all-rounder, then you could probably say that almost all Rivendells have had all-rounder qualities. -Jim W. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Long-low for sale in SF Craigslist
Good points, Greg. I've just tonight been going through some old RRs and catalogues... confirmed I still have all from the first few years, and only missing a couple of later issues (they must be around here somewhere!) But this thread has been a trove of nuggets on the early years of Riv frames. And I'm enjoying every small detail that's brought forth. - Andrew, Berkeley On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 9:38 PM, Greg J gregkj...@gmail.com wrote: Perhaps stating the obvious, but: Just because it is that Atlantis color doesn't make it an Atlantis. I doubt that the seller would call it a Long-Low if it says Atlantis on the downtube. Atlantis was derived as a lower-cost A/R, built by Toyo in Japan and intentionally given a different name (Atlantis) to distinguish it from a Rivendell model. And I think the 700c Atlantises came later; originally they were 26. While it's possible that the geometry/ride of this particular bike may be similar to or even identical to an Atlantis, if it sports a Riv label on the downtube, it is not an Atlantis b/c it was not made in Japan. While we're on the subject, I'm looking at Riv Catalog No. 4 from Summer 1998/March 1999, and Catalog No. 5 from Summer-Winter 1999 in front of me, and both have pics of 2 different Long Lows with cantis, for you nonbelievers. The LL is described as having a bigger tire clearance (up to 38c), longer stays, little relaxed angles, and cantis (because at that time, there were no std reach brakes available). in fact, Cat. 5 has a std geometry table for the A/R, Road Std, and LL. So I think it's really unfair to keep on calling this an Atlantis. There was a real Long Low model that was built by Joe S, and if this is one, then I think that's a very fair price for a great bike. Greg - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
