Re: [RDA-L] Description of symbols - in which language?
Heidrun said:
What strikes me as odd is that RDA is not very consistent here. With
respect to a symbol in a title, we're supposed to describe it in the
language of the title - regardless of which language this is. But if we
abridge a statement of responsibility naming more than three persons
etc. (2.4.1.5, optional omission), we're compelled to do this in the
language of the agency.
My understanding is the recording of title should be loyal to the title
(author's decision) found in the manifestation. The abridgement of a
statement of responsibility (cataloger's decision) should be loyal to the
cataloging language.
Joan Wang
Illinois Heartland Library
On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 12:10 PM, J. McRee Elrod m...@slc.bc.ca wrote:
Heidrun said:
What strikes me as odd is that RDA is not very consistent here. With
respect to a symbol in a title, we're supposed to describe it in the
language of the title - regardless of which language this is. But if we
abridge a statement of responsibility naming more than three persons
etc. (2.4.1.5, optional omission), we're compelled to do this in the
language of the agency.
With clients in Francophone Canada, Europe, and Asia, SLC can't do
languge of the agency inclusions. It would require multiple copies of
records with different language inclusions. We will continue ISBD
Latin abbreviation inclusions, and urge EURIG to do the same.
What strikes me as inconsistent is that we may give a symbol
description in brackets, but can't supply missing letters or [sic.].
__ __ J. McRee (Mac) Elrod (m...@slc.bc.ca)
{__ | / Special Libraries Cataloguing HTTP://www.slc.bc.ca/
___} |__ \__
--
Zhonghong (Joan) Wang, Ph.D.
Cataloger -- CMC
Illinois Heartland Library System (Edwardsville Office)
6725 Goshen Road
Edwardsville, IL 62025
618.656.3216x409
618.656.9401Fax
[RDA-L] Description of symbols - in which language?
Here's an (admittedly very small) problem which I've been discussing with some colleagues the other day. RDA 1.7.5 tells us: Replace symbols and other characters, etc., that cannot be reproduced by the facilities available with a description of the symbol enclosed in square brackets. An example given is: Robust H [proportional to] stabilization of stochastic hybrid systems with Wiener process This is a new rule for German catalogers (according to our rules we simply replace a symbol which cannot be reproduced by a space). Now we were wondering about the language for the description of the symbol. It seems this would have to be in the language of the resource, as it says in 1.4: When adding data within an element listed above, record the added data in the language and script of the other data in the element unless the instructions for a specific element indicate otherwise. We are not instructed to use the language of the agency in 1.7.5 (unlike e.g. in the optional omission at 2.1.4.5 for statements of responsibility naming more than one person, etc., which explicitly states: Indicate the omission by summarizing what has been omitted in the language and script preferred by the agency preparing the description.). Therefore, when cataloguing e.g. a book in Polish, we'd have to make the description of the symbol in Polish as well. Was that really intentional? I find it hard to believe that RDA expects catalogers to be able to describe complicated symbols in any number of foreign languages. The LC-PCC PS for 1.7.5 has taken care of the problem by stating: Substitute in the language of the context the word, phrase, etc., that is the obvious spoken/written equivalent (if unknown in the language of the context, use English). Well, this is certainly a sensible way of doing it, but it still seems to go against RDA. So, shouldn't there at least be an option to describe such a symbol in the language of the agency? Heidrun -- - Prof. Heidrun Wiesenmueller M.A. Stuttgart Media University Faculty of Information and Communication Wolframstr. 32, 70191 Stuttgart, Germany www.hdm-stuttgart.de/bi
Re: [RDA-L] Description of symbols - in which language?
I think that kind of begs the question. The part that she thought went against RDA was the LC-PCC PS that said to use English if the term in the language of the context was unknown. There is still no solution in RDA itself for what to do when the title is in Polish or some even more obscure language and the cataloger doesn't know how to say proportional to or whatever the symbol might be. -- John Hostage Authorities and Database Integrity Librarian Harvard Library--Information and Technical Services Langdell Hall 194 Cambridge, MA 02138 host...@law.harvard.edu +(1)(617) 495-3974 (voice) +(1)(617) 496-4409 (fax) -Original Message- From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Kevin M Randall Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 16:28 To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Description of symbols - in which language? Heidrun Wiesenmüller wrote: I find it hard to believe that RDA expects catalogers to be able to describe complicated symbols in any number of foreign languages. The LC-PCC PS for 1.7.5 has taken care of the problem by stating: Substitute in the language of the context the word, phrase, etc., that is the obvious spoken/written equivalent (if unknown in the language of the context, use English). Well, this is certainly a sensible way of doing it, but it still seems to go against RDA. This seems to be entirely in keeping with the principles of RDA. Bear in mind that you don't use the language of the *resource* but the language of the rest of the element being recorded. If it's the TITLE that has the symbol, and the title is in English, use an English word or phrase in place of the symbol; if the title is in German, use a German word or phrase, etc. Regardless of the language of the resource itself. (For example, the resource could be in German, with an English title proper.) This is not at all unlike supplying a variant access point replacing an ampersand with a word. If the title is in English, you would replace the ampersand with and; if the title is in German, you would replace the ampersand with und. In any catalog, it would look kind of funny (to me, at least) to see an access point such as Advise und consent, Advise et consent, Advise y consent, etc. instead of Advise and consent. Kevin M. Randall Principal Serials Cataloger Northwestern University Library k...@northwestern.edu (847) 491-2939 Proudly wearing the sensible shoes since 1978!
Re: [RDA-L] Description of symbols - in which language?
Aha, I get it now. It looks like Heidrun is asking if maybe the LC-PCC PS should be turned into an alternative, and generalized from English to language of the cataloging agency. I think the PS is a matter of expediency, and is probably meant to be used as a last resort. I'm not sure I'd like to see this as an actual alternative in RDA; it would seem to be legitimizing mixed-language (nonsense) title strings which I really think should be kept to the barest minimum. Kevin -Original Message- From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of John Hostage Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 4:10 PM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Description of symbols - in which language? I think that kind of begs the question. The part that she thought went against RDA was the LC-PCC PS that said to use English if the term in the language of the context was unknown. There is still no solution in RDA itself for what to do when the title is in Polish or some even more obscure language and the cataloger doesn't know how to say proportional to or whatever the symbol might be. -- John Hostage Authorities and Database Integrity Librarian Harvard Library--Information and Technical Services Langdell Hall 194 Cambridge, MA 02138 host...@law.harvard.edu +(1)(617) 495-3974 (voice) +(1)(617) 496-4409 (fax) -Original Message- From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Kevin M Randall Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 16:28 To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Description of symbols - in which language? Heidrun Wiesenmüller wrote: I find it hard to believe that RDA expects catalogers to be able to describe complicated symbols in any number of foreign languages. The LC-PCC PS for 1.7.5 has taken care of the problem by stating: Substitute in the language of the context the word, phrase, etc., that is the obvious spoken/written equivalent (if unknown in the language of the context, use English). Well, this is certainly a sensible way of doing it, but it still seems to go against RDA. This seems to be entirely in keeping with the principles of RDA. Bear in mind that you don't use the language of the *resource* but the language of the rest of the element being recorded. If it's the TITLE that has the symbol, and the title is in English, use an English word or phrase in place of the symbol; if the title is in German, use a German word or phrase, etc. Regardless of the language of the resource itself. (For example, the resource could be in German, with an English title proper.) This is not at all unlike supplying a variant access point replacing an ampersand with a word. If the title is in English, you would replace the ampersand with and; if the title is in German, you would replace the ampersand with und. In any catalog, it would look kind of funny (to me, at least) to see an access point such as Advise und consent, Advise et consent, Advise y consent, etc. instead of Advise and consent. Kevin M. Randall Principal Serials Cataloger Northwestern University Library k...@northwestern.edu (847) 491-2939 Proudly wearing the sensible shoes since 1978!
