[RE-wrenches] XW connection to PC?
Fellow Wrenches, I am looking to see if there is a way to connect the Xantrex XW inverters to a PC for data acquisition and/or control. The cabling is familiar enough, but I can find no reference in Xantrex literature mentioning a PC link. With the old SW, they offered an interface box. I though at first that the XW control panel may accommodate the connection, but it is not mentioned. Have any of you found a way to do this? OR have any of you come to the conclusion that it is not possible? Thanks, Jim Grundy NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ Vermont Solar Specialist Plumber PS-279 Elemental Energy, Inc. 1750 Clark Rd E. Montpelier, VT 05651 802-476-3441 (p) 802-476-5680 (f ) 802-272-8933 (c) ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] XW connection to PC?
Hi Jim, Xantrex has a XW configuration tool with a USB to Xanbus adapter and XW config software that is used for firmware upgrades and adjusting settings on connected devices. I don't know if it can be used for data acquisition. I haven't used one yet so I can't tell you how it works. Jon Jon Haeme Innovations NABCEP certified Solar PV installer Kempton, IL On Dec 10, 2008, at 7:34 AM, design wrote: Fellow Wrenches, I am looking to see if there is a way to connect the Xantrex XW inverters to a PC for data acquisition and/or control. The cabling is familiar enough, but I can find no reference in Xantrex literature mentioning a PC link. With the old SW, they offered an interface box. I though at first that the XW control panel may accommodate the connection, but it is not mentioned. Have any of you found a way to do this? OR have any of you come to the conclusion that it is not possible? Thanks, Jim Grundy NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ Vermont Solar Specialist Plumber PS-279 Elemental Energy, Inc. 1750 Clark Rd E. Montpelier, VT 05651 802-476-3441 (p) 802-476-5680 (f ) 802-272-8933 (c) ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re- wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] XW connection to PC?
Here's a link to follow: http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/269/p/1/pt/5/product.asp I do not know if the Communications Gateway is shipping or not, but it's close anyway. Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 -- Original Message --- From: design [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 08:34:29 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] XW connection to PC? Fellow Wrenches, I am looking to see if there is a way to connect the Xantrex XW inverters to a PC for data acquisition and/or control. The cabling is familiar enough, but I can find no reference in Xantrex literature mentioning a PC link. With the old SW, they offered an interface box. I though at first that the XW control panel may accommodate the connection, but it is not mentioned. Have any of you found a way to do this? OR have any of you come to the conclusion that it is not possible? Thanks, Jim Grundy NABCEP Certified Solar PV [WINDOWS-1252?]Installer Vermont Solar Specialist Plumber PS-279 Elemental Energy, Inc. 1750 Clark Rd E. Montpelier, VT 05651 802-476-3441 (p) 802-476-5680 (f ) 802-272-8933 (c) --- End of Original Message --- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] XW connection to PC?
You might want to take a look at http://www.righthandeng.com/ - our experience with Xantrex made software has been less than .. gratifying. .. Northern Arizona Wind Sun - Electricity From The Sun .. - Original Message - From: mick abraham To: RE-wrenches Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 8:24 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] XW connection to PC? Here's a link to follow: http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/269/p/1/pt/5/product.asp I do not know if the Communications Gateway is shipping or not, but it's close anyway. Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 -- Original Message --- From: design [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 08:34:29 -0500 Subject: [RE-wrenches] XW connection to PC? Fellow Wrenches, I am looking to see if there is a way to connect the Xantrex XW inverters to a PC for data acquisition and/or control. The cabling is familiar enough, but I can find no reference in Xantrex literature mentioning a PC link. With the old SW, they offered an interface box. I though at first that the XW control panel may accommodate the connection, but it is not mentioned. Have any of you found a way to do this? OR have any of you come to the conclusion that it is not possible? Thanks, Jim Grundy NABCEP Certified Solar PV [WINDOWS-1252?]InstallerT Vermont Solar Specialist Plumber PS-279 Elemental Energy, Inc. 1750 Clark Rd E. Montpelier, VT 05651 802-476-3441 (p) 802-476-5680 (f ) 802-272-8933 (c) --- End of Original Message --- -- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] building permits for PV
Dana, See http://lomaprieta.sierraclub.org/global_warming/fee_study.htm I think there were other lists of permit requirements on this list but I can not find them. Perhaps someone can suggest a search method. Joel Davidson - Original Message - From: Andrew Truitt To: RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 9:05 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] building permits for PV Dana, Washington DC, Baltimore MD, San Francisco, Berkeley and Oakland CA - none require roof footing inspections. However, one of our local AHJs does require a letter on company letterhead stating our roof guarantee - maybe something you could try. We are also required to get structural engineer stamped drawings in most jurisdictions in Maryland. This document has some info you might find useful: http://www.solartech.org/index.php/about/29-objectives/18-buildingpermits But when faced with unreasonable AHJs I don't think any way foreword is better than just sitting down with the Head of Permitting and explaining exactly how you install, preferably with visual aids. And since yours seems to be especially worried about leaks make sure you have a good counterflashed waterproofing solution to show him. Tell him you want to work with him but that many solar installs are completed in a day or two and to accommodate an inspection in the middle severely impacts your project timeline. And of course it couldn't hurt to bring a box of donuts. Good luck! Andrew Truitt Standard Solar On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 6:13 PM, Dana Brandt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for all the feedback. Sounds like there's a ton of variation from one jurisdiction to another. Would you all be willing to send me a list of large cities you've worked in that do not require a building permit? I'd like to use that to make a case against the requirement. I just got back from the inspection which verified that - yes indeed, there are L-feet and rails on the roof. Seems pretty silly... Thanks again, Dana -- Dana Brandt Ecotech Energy Systems, LLC www.ecotechenergy.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] 360.510.0433 On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 8:11 AM, Paul Israel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dana, Firstly we all truly sympathize, I have never heard of that one! Not one building department - has required that. We have installed in Oregon, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Reno - Nevada, and Massachusetts. We are inspected consistently for concrete pours (rebar/pads/ground mounts/pole mounts). For most roofs in CT we are usually required to have an Engineers Stamp for the layout relative to the rafter loading. It depends on the jurisdiction or whether they had their coffee. It is random. I would try and push the manufacturer's installation instructions or get a local engineering stamp on the layout as an alternative. On a lighter note, make sure to leave some exposed wet caulk. After messing up their car, paperwork, and a couple layers of skin they surely won't want to do that again. Good luck and let us know how it works out. Paul N. Israel, President [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.sunlightsolar.com 541/389-3480 (Oregon) 203/878-9123 x103 (CT) 860/617-6527 (Cell) -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dana Brandt Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:46 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] building permits for PV Hi all, Until recently, we've only been required to have an electrical permit for flush-mounted PV systems. The city has now decided to require building permits for all PV systems and wants to come out and inspect our L-feet attachments and rails before the modules can go up. This seems crazy to me. What are other jurisdictions requiring? I'd love some information I can take to the city showing that other jurisdictions aren't requiring this type of process. Thanks a lot, Dana -- Dana Brandt Ecotech Energy Systems, LLC www.ecotechenergy.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] 360.510.0433 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings:
Re: [RE-wrenches] XW connection to PC?
Hi All - yes the XW Gateway unit is shipping, and gives you either a wired or wireless connection to a local Ethernet network. The XW-Config tool is also available and provides a USB connection and software for set up and monitoring via a PC. (I don't think the Config tool is on the web site yet, but can be ordered through the tech support group) The built in com ports on the XW system devices use CAN bus hardware, with a proprietary communication protocol, so either one of the above devices is the best way to make your connection from this to a computer. Cheers, Mark Mark Edmunds Xantrex Technology Inc. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of mick abraham Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:25 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] XW connection to PC? Here's a link to follow: http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/269/p/1/pt/5/product.asp I do not know if the Communications Gateway is shipping or not, but it's close anyway. Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com http://www.abrahamsolar.com/ Voice: 970-731-4675 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] XW connection to PC?
Thanks, Mark~ Did the T-tap device ever materialize? You had written about this as a way to get power onto the Xanbus network if an inverter/charger was absent from the system. I think part number 865-1057 had been assigned. Please advise if this can now be ordered through distributor channels. Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 -- Original Message --- From: Mark Edmunds [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 09:07:39 -0800 Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] XW connection to PC? Hi All yes the XW Gateway unit is shipping, and givesyou either a wired or wireless connection to a local Ethernet network. The XW-Configtool is also available and provides a USB connection and software for set up andmonitoring via a PC. (I dont think the Config tool is on the web siteyet, but can be ordered through the tech support group) The built in com ports on the XW system devices use CAN bushardware, with a proprietary communication protocol, so either one of the abovedevices is the best way to make your connection from this to a computer. Cheers, Mark Mark Edmunds Xantrex Technology Inc. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of mickabraham Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:25 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] XW connection to PC? Here's a link to follow: http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/269/p/1/pt/5/product.asp I do not know if the Communications Gateway is shipping or not, but it's closeanyway. Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 --- End of Original Message --- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] voltage drop
I have a volt drop spreadsheet on our website as well at http:// www.solarray.com/TechGuides/TGmain_T.php It uses NEC temp correction for resistance, and another temp correction for ampacity. One is based on ambient air temp, and one is wire temp. All calculations are taken directly from the 2005 NEC ( don't think wire changed in 2008) Also, it lets you look at various wires at the same time like William's. I don't currently have AC on it, but it's getting cold here, so maybe I'll add that this winter. I hid the ampacity stuff I attempted, since NEC has so many factors to consider, but its still on there, if you unhide all the rows. I also tried to do a sizing based on wire cost thing, but when wire pricing shot up, it threw all that off too. You can still use that, you just have to enter your per ft cost for each wire size. The idea was to not spend $1000 putting in 4/0 cable to save $100 worth of solar power. Ray On Dec 10, 2008, at 8:16 AM, Wind-sun.com wrote: The NEC values are for 75C, but not everything operates at that temperature (167F), nor or all uses of wire under NEC codes. I understand why the spreadsheet is set up for NEC since that covers probably 98% of all uses. At room temperature (25C), the resistance values are almost 20% less - the standard physics value of #10 AWG is almost exactly 1 ohm per 1000 feet at 26C. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge .. Northern Arizona Wind Sun - Electricity From The Sun .. - Original Message - From: William Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 11:48 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] voltage drop Dear Wind Sun: What standard are you referring to? We are using the 75C values from the NEC in order to assure code compliance. We need to have a direct link to the NEC in case of compliance or liability issues. Thanks for asking. William Miller ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re- wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org R. Walters Solarray.com NABCEP # 04170442 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Module Voltage Question for Off-Grid Designers
Wrenches, Here's an issue I haven't seen directly addressed, and I would like to know what the rest of you are doing. It's getting harder to get 24V nominal modules. Because the bulk of industry growth is high-voltage grid-tied applications, modules no longer have to be a standard voltage. Just pick the number of modules to best fit the chosen inverter's string voltage range. But for off-grid, the odd cell counts and resulting nontraditional DC input voltages challenge the traditional rules of off-grid design. I may be fighting a losing battle here, as the industry changes so rapidly and fundamentally. I have been trying to stay with 72-cell modules for offgrid, as this most readily combines with existing systems with 36-cell modules (12V) and 72-cell modules (24V). For example, I will use the new Canadian Solar 170-200W modules. They are 60-cell modules, with a Vmppt of around 28 volts - too low to charge 24V batteries with a standard charge controller. We can use them in any new systems with an MX60 or similar voltage-converting MPPT controller. Two or three in series would charge a 24V battery; 3 in series would charge 48V. Four in series would violate Code, as low-temp voltage would easily exceed 150V. Unless 60-cell modules remain a standard in the future, any future array additions would have to be on their own charge controller, in order to match a different I-V curve and MPP voltages into the same battery bank. Is this prohibitive? No, it just runs counter to the longstanding standards of off-grid design that allow modules to be added in the future: these modules will not add well to existing systems, and will not easily allow additional dissimilar modules to be added later. I had this same objection to using Day4 modules, although they were better at 16Vnom. Three made up a standard 48V array, so strings could be combined with two-module strings of similar 24Vnom modules. Who else is trying to stay with 24V modules? Anyone still using 12V modules in off-grid (residential-scale, not little apps) designs? Who has a crystal ball and knows what modules will be like in 20 years, or even two years? Wat are the rest of you doing? Thanks, as usual. Allan Allan Sindelar allan_(at)_positiveenergysolar.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] NABCEP certified solar PV installer Positive Energy, Inc. 3225A Richards Lane Santa Fe NM 87507 505 424-1112 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] solar hot water penetration flashing
Any thoughts on how to flash a copper pipe roof penetration on a metal roof. The brazed copper flashing we typically use would cause corrosion with the steel roof I'm afraid. WHat have others used in this situation? Troy Harvey - Heliocentric 801-453-9434 [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Dec 10, 2008, at 11:07 AM, R. Walters wrote: I have a volt drop spreadsheet on our website as well at http://www.solarray.com/TechGuides/TGmain_T.php It uses NEC temp correction for resistance, and another temp correction for ampacity. One is based on ambient air temp, and one is wire temp. All calculations are taken directly from the 2005 NEC( don't think wire changed in 2008) Also, it lets you look at various wires at the same time like William's. I don't currently have AC on it, but it's getting cold here, so maybe I'll add that this winter. I hid the ampacity stuff I attempted, since NEC has so many factors to consider, but its still on there, if you unhide all the rows. I also tried to do a sizing based on wire cost thing, but when wire pricing shot up, it threw all that off too. You can still use that, you just have to enter your per ft cost for each wire size. The idea was to not spend $1000 putting in 4/0 cable to save $100 worth of solar power. Ray On Dec 10, 2008, at 8:16 AM, Wind-sun.com wrote: The NEC values are for 75C, but not everything operates at that temperature (167F), nor or all uses of wire under NEC codes. I understand why the spreadsheet is set up for NEC since that covers probably 98% of all uses. At room temperature (25C), the resistance values are almost 20% less - the standard physics value of #10 AWG is almost exactly 1 ohm per 1000 feet at 26C. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge .. Northern Arizona Wind Sun - Electricity From The Sun .. - Original Message - From: William Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 11:48 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] voltage drop Dear Wind Sun: What standard are you referring to? We are using the 75C values from the NEC in order to assure code compliance. We need to have a direct link to the NEC in case of compliance or liability issues. Thanks for asking. William Miller ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org R. Walters Solarray.com NABCEP # 04170442 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Module Voltage Question for Off-Grid Designers
Call me old school, but the only modules I keep in stock are 36 cell. I would consider 72 cell modules for stock but otherwise I just say no to all of the screwball cell counts that are out there. It's not that I refuse to sell anything else...but if I go goofy on the cell count I just order those modules as I need them. Why go goofy?, I ask myself. My occasional string inverter sale can often be accommodated with 36 cell modules...ditto for pumps...and of course a 36 cell module fits right in to battery charging setups regardless of whether the solar array is wired classic or at elevated voltage. Cost per watt for my preferred 36's is about the same as everything else, so again I ask: Why go goofy? The main thing that causes me now to consider 72 cell modules for stock is the Enphase M175 inverter. My preferred 36 cell modules are a little too big on amperage to work well in pairs with the Enphase 175. If anyone has a surplus batch or used batch of Enphase appropriate modules with 72 cell count, contact me off list for a possible cash sale. Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 -- Original Message --- From: Allan Sindelar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'RE-wrenches' re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 13:16:26 -0700 Subject: [RE-wrenches] Module Voltage Question for Off-Grid Designers Wrenches, Here's an issue I haven't seen directly addressed, and I would like to know what the rest of you are doing. It's getting harder to get 24V nominal modules. Because the bulk of industry growth is high-voltage grid-tied applications, modules no longer have to be a standard voltage. Just pick the number of modules to best fit the chosen inverter's string voltage range. But for off-grid, the odd cell counts and resulting nontraditional DC input voltages challenge the traditional rules of off-grid design. I may be fighting a losing battle here, as the industry changes so rapidly and fundamentally. I have been trying to stay with 72-cell modules for offgrid, as this most readily combines with existing systems with 36-cell modules (12V) and 72-cell modules (24V). For example, I will use the new Canadian Solar 170-200W modules. They are 60-cell modules, with a Vmppt of around 28 volts - too low to charge 24V batteries with a standard charge controller. We can use them in any new systems with an MX60 or similar voltage-converting MPPT controller. Two or three in series would charge a 24V battery; 3 in series would charge 48V. Four in series would violate Code, as low-temp voltage would easily exceed 150V. Unless 60-cell modules remain a standard in the future, any future array additions would have to be on their own charge controller, in order to match a different I-V curve and MPP voltages into the same battery bank. Is this prohibitive? No, it just runs counter to the longstanding standards of off-grid design that allow modules to be added in the future: these modules will not add well to existing systems, and will not easily allow additional dissimilar modules to be added later. I had this same objection to using Day4 modules, although they were better at 16Vnom. Three made up a standard 48V array, so strings could be combined with two-module strings of similar 24Vnom modules. Who else is trying to stay with 24V modules? Anyone still using 12V modules in off-grid (residential-scale, not little apps) designs? Who has a crystal ball and knows what modules will be like in 20 years, or even two years? Wat are the rest of you doing? Thanks, as usual. Allan Allan Sindelar allan_(at)_positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP certified solar PV installer Positive Energy, Inc. 3225A Richards Lane Santa Fe NM 87507 505 424-1112 --- End of Original Message --- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Module Voltage Question for Off-Grid Designers
Allan, Because many MPPT controllers convert to any battery voltage, new installations allow you to use just about any solar module. When I install any higher voltage module on RV's (12 volt battery), I design series strings up to the max design voltage to minimize voltage drop. No more 6 gauge wire runs. Now I can install Sanyo's or even Kaneka's and charge 12 volt batteries with up to 97% conversion efficiency. If you are trying to add to an existing array it may be harder to match up your Vmp for parallel strings. I would not be worried about a few volts. The voltages will average out somewhere in the middle. For instance, I have customers in Mexico that have very old systems (think Arco). They want to keep the PV modules they have and add more while upgrading to MPPT. I have done this by re-stringing the old modules in series and try to get close to the published Vmp of the new modules. Some power will be lost in this parallel setup as it is difficult to estimate the Vmp of a 20 year old module. I have done this for several customers and so far it has worked well. Kindest Regards, Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar 11279 S. Glenwood Ave #4 Yuma, AZ 85367 (928) 941-1660 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.starlightsolar.com Retail Store: 2998 Shari, Yuma, AZ Renewable Energy Products, Service and Installation On Dec 10, 2008, at 1:16 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote: Wrenches, Here's an issue I haven't seen directly addressed, and I would like to know what the rest of you are doing. It's getting harder to get 24V nominal modules. Because the bulk of industry growth is high-voltage grid-tied applications, modules no longer have to be a standard voltage. Just pick the number of modules to best fit the chosen inverter's string voltage range. But for off-grid, the odd cell counts and resulting nontraditional DC input voltages challenge the traditional rules of off-grid design. I may be fighting a losing battle here, as the industry changes so rapidly and fundamentally. I have been trying to stay with 72-cell modules for offgrid, as this most readily combines with existing systems with 36-cell modules (12V) and 72-cell modules (24V). For example, I will use the new Canadian Solar 170-200W modules. They are 60-cell modules, with a Vmppt of around 28 volts - too low to charge 24V batteries with a standard charge controller. We can use them in any new systems with an MX60 or similar voltage- converting MPPT controller. Two or three in series would charge a 24V battery; 3 in series would charge 48V. Four in series would violate Code, as low-temp voltage would easily exceed 150V. Unless 60-cell modules remain a standard in the future, any future array additions would have to be on their own charge controller, in order to match a different I-V curve and MPP voltages into the same battery bank. Is this prohibitive? No, it just runs counter to the longstanding standards of off-grid design that allow modules to be added in the future: these modules will not add well to existing systems, and will not easily allow additional dissimilar modules to be added later. I had this same objection to using Day4 modules, although they were better at 16Vnom. Three made up a standard 48V array, so strings could be combined with two-module strings of similar 24Vnom modules. Who else is trying to stay with 24V modules? Anyone still using 12V modules in off-grid (residential-scale, not little apps) designs? Who has a crystal ball and knows what modules will be like in 20 years, or even two years? Wat are the rest of you doing? Thanks, as usual. Allan Allan Sindelar allan_(at)_positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP certified solar PV installer Positive Energy, Inc. 3225A Richards Lane Santa Fe NM 87507 505 424-1112 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Module Voltage Question for Off-Grid Designers
My favorite is the Sharp 175 for off-grid and solar pumping applications; a sturdy, well built and consistent module for most applications. You can even get them fairly often! Matt T Kirpal Khalsa wrote: Allen..Greetingsyes indeed it is an issue. we have been addressing with multiple charge controllers per system. we don't fight the current (not electrical). In the future the way i see it- the electronics will be more flexible and be able to handle the larger variety of string voltages. For example the long long long awaited apollo solar t100 which will allow voltages to exceed the 150V limit we have had for a long time. They have apparently even lined up some breakers which will work with these greater voltages. 3 modules in a series will no longer be a maximum. I understand midnite solar also has a charge controller which will allow the 150V max to go by the way side. We are trying to be flexible as modules become less standard and hope that the electronics will allow us to address thesee challanges as time goes by. One thing that we would love to see is more large wattage modules with j boxes rather than pre-wired MC cables. In many of our off grid systems the array is located in readily accesible locations and crafting a fence or sticking the array over 8 feet of the ground is a big hassle/extra expense. This has proven to be a bigger concern for us rahter than the voltage variety. If you know of any 72 cell or for that matter 60 cell modules which allow flex conduit between j boxes we would love some info... -- Sunny Regards, Kirpal Khalsa NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer Renewable Energy Systems LLC On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 12:16 PM, Allan Sindelar [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wrenches, Here's an issue I haven't seen directly addressed, and I would like to know what the rest of you are doing. It's getting harder to get 24V nominal modules. Because the bulk of industry growth is high-voltage grid-tied applications, modules no longer have to be a standard voltage. Just pick the number of modules to best fit the chosen inverter's string voltage range. But for off-grid, the odd cell counts and resulting nontraditional DC input voltages challenge the traditional rules of off-grid design. I may be fighting a losing battle here, as the industry changes so rapidly and fundamentally. I have been trying to stay with 72-cell modules for offgrid, as this most readily combines with existing systems with 36-cell modules (12V) and 72-cell modules (24V). For example, I will use the new Canadian Solar 170-200W modules. They are 60-cell modules, with a Vmppt of around 28 volts - too low to charge 24V batteries with a standard charge controller. We can use them in any new systems with an MX60 or similar voltage-converting MPPT controller. Two or three in series would charge a 24V battery; 3 in series would charge 48V. Four in series would violate Code, as low-temp voltage would easily exceed 150V. Unless 60-cell modules remain a standard in the future, any future array additions would have to be on their own charge controller, in order to match a different I-V curve and MPP voltages into the same battery bank. Is this prohibitive? No, it just runs counter to the longstanding standards of off-grid design that allow modules to be added in the future: these modules will not add well to existing systems, and will not easily allow additional dissimilar modules to be added later. I had this same objection to using Day4 modules, although they were better at 16Vnom. Three made up a standard 48V array, so strings could be combined with two-module strings of similar 24Vnom modules. Who else is trying to stay with 24V modules? Anyone still using 12V modules in off-grid (residential-scale, not little apps) designs? Who has a crystal ball and knows what modules will be like in 20 years, or even two years? Wat are the rest of you doing? Thanks, as usual. Allan Allan Sindelar _allan_(at)_positiveenergysolar.com_ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] NABCEP certified solar PV installer Positive Energy, Inc. 3225A Richards Lane Santa Fe NM 87507 505 424-1112 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG -
[RE-wrenches] SS zip ties
Where do you get these SS zip ties. I have seen them and think they would work in some applications. thanks, jay peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] SDHW and High Mains Pressure
Hi Peter, There are some hi end units that are really nice. Takagi, Rennai are the two that come to mind that are really amazing. They have digital remote controlls and are are designed to mounted outside, which saves a lot of interior space, cost of reworking the flue etc. Jay Peltz power On Dec 7, 2008, at 3:22 PM, Peter Parrish wrote: We are getting ready to install a SDHW system for a customer and we looked at a number of things regarding his current set up. I just posted a question about tankless heaters but I wanted this query to be a separate one. The customer’s mains water pressure is 88 psi on a Saturday afternoon and some time over the next 18 hours, the pressure went as high as 96 psi. I understand that 80 psi is the high end of the safe range in general and that 96 psi on a regular basis can/will damage valves and possibly trigger TP valves on water heaters. At the recommendation of a plumber I know I looked into pressure reducers, specifically the Wilkins/Zurn line. All the Wilkins regulators produce zero pressure drop at zero flow. What good are these products in protecting plumbing systems from high mains pressures at night when pressures tend to be the highest and usage is at a minimum or even zero? Are there products that will prevent system pressures from exceeding a set point (e.g. 60 psi) under any flow condition including zero? - Peter Peter T. Parrish, President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] solar hot water penetration flashing
I use similar boots, and design the penetration so the insulation and wrap ( we use aluminum) nearly cover the whole boot by the time you're all done. you're left with about 1/2 of boot showing all the way around. where can I get the coolie cap style brazed copper flashings? karl Todd Cory wrote: I use accordion style rubber boots. These are typically attached to the roofing with a bead of silicone underneath and gasketed metal roofing screws on top. These are made for all kinds of metal roof penetrations and I have even seen them used for 6 metalbestos stove flues. One note of caution, the orange high temperature ones are (I think) rated only to 180 degrees F. so you want to make sure the SHW fluid never exceeds this. Also in time, like any rubber flashing on a roof the rubber will deteriorate from UV. I build a show shed over my system's plumbing which shades it so hopefully this will not be in issue in ~20 years. Todd troy Harvey wrote: Any thoughts on how to flash a copper pipe roof penetration on a metal roof. The brazed copper flashing we typically use would cause corrosion with the steel roof I'm afraid. WHat have others used in this situation? Troy Harvey - Heliocentric 801-453-9434 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Karl Schwingel NABCEP Certified Solar Thermal Installer NorthWind Renewable Energy LLC PO Box 723 Stevens Point, WI 54481 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cell: 715 209 0446 Fax : 715 952 4501 This e-mail message is confidential, is intended only for the named recipient(s) above, and may contain information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this message in error, or are not a named recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender by return e-mail and delete this e-mail message from your computer. Thank you. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] SS zip ties
Jay: Waytekwire.com William At 04:15 PM 12/10/2008, you wrote: Where do you get these SS zip ties. I have seen them and think they would work in some applications. thanks, jay peltz power ___ ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] SS zip ties
Kent: To tighten: 1. Pull tie snug by hand. 2. Cut tail about 20 mm from clasp. 3. Roll tail with needle-nose pliers, like a sardine can lid. This tightens tie and hides sharp end. See http://mpandc.com/practices/Technical_Procedures/PV_wiring/PV_wiring.html for photos. Do not over-tighten to avoid wire damage. William At 09:25 PM 12/10/2008, you wrote: Fastenal has stainless ties is various lengths http://www.fastenal.com/web/products/detail.ex?sku=0710242 For those that haven't used these before, beware that it is difficult to tighten them. Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
