Re: [RE-wrenches] Dual Channel Inverters; Hosed By Fronius

[Troy Harvey]

> but it also takes MUCH less time in most cases and can be done much more 
> easily by one service technician. It's not a money maker, but it covers cost 
> in our neck of the woods.
> 


How is that possible?

 I get a lousy $150 dollars from enphase to rip apart half of a array just to 
get at the micro inverter. Then I have to put the array back together. Its an 
all day activity for two people for 1 inverter. And then I have to do it on the 
same array the next year again. With a string inverter the swap is simple.



thanks,

Troy Harvey
-
Principal Engineer
Heliocentric
801-453-9434
tahar...@heliocentric.org

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Dual Channel Inverters; Hosed By Fronius

[Tump]

Yeah I too agree. Bring the techs from Enfizz out & put them on a 12/12 pitch 
roof, 2 stories up and see if they feel "adequately compensaited"! This has 
ALWAYS BEEN an issue for this industry. We recommend products, buy the 
products, without us the manus don't HAVE jobs and we are left trying to 
address issues that cost us our reputation & lost opportunity cost.
It use to be if I had a nickel for every time someone said I was in the "right" 
biz now If I could get a nickel for overtime a manu says its NOT our product at 
fault...
On May 9, 2013, at 10:54 AM, Troy Harvey wrote:

> 
> 
>> but it also takes MUCH less time in most cases and can be done much more 
>> easily by one service technician. It's not a money maker, but it covers cost 
>> in our neck of the woods.
>> 
> 
> 
> How is that possible?
> 
>  I get a lousy $150 dollars from enphase to rip apart half of a array just to 
> get at the micro inverter. Then I have to put the array back together. Its an 
> all day activity for two people for 1 inverter. And then I have to do it on 
> the same array the next year again. With a string inverter the swap is simple.
> 
> 
> 
> thanks,
> 
> Troy Harvey
> -
> Principal Engineer
> Heliocentric
> 801-453-9434
> tahar...@heliocentric.org
> 
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> 

> t...@swnl.net   www.SWNL.net
> Solarwinds Northernlights   
>Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California
>  207-832-7574   Cl. 610-517-8401  
> 
>   Blair "TUMP" May
>  MAINE'S CHARTER 
>   NABCEP"Certified PV Installer" 
>
>     MAINE'S CHARTER 
>   Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer"
> 


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase / Inverter failures

[Troy Harvey]

> I don't enjoy the PLC interference problems, which are rare. When they have 
> occurred, Enphase provided continuous technical support, including factory 
> evaluation of line filters and enhanced system analysis.  Did you know that 
> each Enphase system has a built in spectrum analyzer? Tech support can 
> provide a printout of interfering signals to help in troubleshooting. 
> Installing a separate AC load center to accept the AC return breakers helps 
> with solving these problems.  I understand that the next release of Enphase 
> inverters will be Wi-fi, eliminating the PLC protocol entirely.  When the 
> communication works, (which it does most of the time) it is a very valuable 
> resource.

I find we have several times the service calls on enphase due to the customers 
thinking their system isn't working, when in fact it the flakey PLC network. 
And all that monitoring is only really telling me about the inverters or their 
networking, since the long term failure rate of the panels is several orders of 
magnitude better than even the best inverter on the market.

I have only seen 2 Xantrex string inverters go out in the last 5 years (no 
surprise there) out of all of the string inverters, and all of the brands. But 
I've seen failure at everyone of our Enphase installs, and usually failures 
every year (1 or 2 dead micros per year per site).

There is no argument that micros improve flexibility. And the potential for a 
micro to have a higher MTBF is believable. But first they need better design, 
more market experience, and will never reach 25 year lifespan like they say 
until they take electrolytic caps out of their designs.

thanks,

Troy Harvey
-
Principal Engineer
Heliocentric
801-453-9434
tahar...@heliocentric.org


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase / Inverter failures

[Will White]

It's funny because I've had a very different experience from everyone else.  
I've had lots of Xantrex inverters fail and a few Fronius but not to the extent 
that everyone else has.  I've only replaced a few Enphase inverters and they 
were usually dead out of the box.

Thanks,
Will

__
Will White
Regional Field Operations Manager - New England

Real Goods Solar
64 Main St.
Montpelier, VT 05602
Tel: (802) 223-7804
Cell: (802) 234-3167
www.realgoodssolar.com


From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Troy Harvey
Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 11:06 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase / Inverter failures



I don't enjoy the PLC interference problems, which are rare. When they have 
occurred, Enphase provided continuous technical support, including factory 
evaluation of line filters and enhanced system analysis.  Did you know that 
each Enphase system has a built in spectrum analyzer? Tech support can provide 
a printout of interfering signals to help in troubleshooting. Installing a 
separate AC load center to accept the AC return breakers helps with solving 
these problems.  I understand that the next release of Enphase inverters will 
be Wi-fi, eliminating the PLC protocol entirely.  When the communication works, 
(which it does most of the time) it is a very valuable resource.

I find we have several times the service calls on enphase due to the customers 
thinking their system isn't working, when in fact it the flakey PLC network. 
And all that monitoring is only really telling me about the inverters or their 
networking, since the long term failure rate of the panels is several orders of 
magnitude better than even the best inverter on the market.

I have only seen 2 Xantrex string inverters go out in the last 5 years (no 
surprise there) out of all of the string inverters, and all of the brands. But 
I've seen failure at everyone of our Enphase installs, and usually failures 
every year (1 or 2 dead micros per year per site).

There is no argument that micros improve flexibility. And the potential for a 
micro to have a higher MTBF is believable. But first they need better design, 
more market experience, and will never reach 25 year lifespan like they say 
until they take electrolytic caps out of their designs.

thanks,

Troy Harvey
-
Principal Engineer
Heliocentric
801-453-9434
tahar...@heliocentric.org

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase / Inverter failures

[Mike & Jessica Nelson]

Wrenches,
I have had extensive failures on 3 installs that are situated right on the
coastal bluff in Northern California. Once you replace more than one
inverter at one site on one day, the compensation goes from $150.00 per
inverter, to next to nothing for the remaining. Enphase actually sent out
their field services tech, and did a complete swap out on these 3 systems
(with my assistance). It was a long day. But now, 2 years later, we are
seeing more failures. One has had 4 micro failures to date. Once I get away
from the coastal edge, with it's corrosive effect, the failure rate goes
way down. I have asked Enphase to upgrade these 3 systems to the newer M215
system, and am still waiting for a response. I am to the point where I
won't install Enphase within 1/2 mile of the ocean.
Michael D. Nelson
MD Electric & Solar

On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 8:31 AM, Will White wrote:

>  It’s funny because I’ve had a very different experience from everyone
> else.  I’ve had lots of Xantrex inverters fail and a few Fronius but not to
> the extent that everyone else has.  I’ve only replaced a few Enphase
> inverters and they were usually dead out of the box.
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks,
>
> Will
>
> ** **
>
> *
> __
> *
>
> Will White
>
> Regional Field Operations Manager – New England
>
> ** **
>
> Real Goods Solar
>
> 64 Main St.
>
> Montpelier, VT 05602
>
> Tel: (802) 223-7804
>
> Cell: (802) 234-3167
>
> www.realgoodssolar.com
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
> re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Troy Harvey
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 09, 2013 11:06 AM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase / Inverter failures
>
> ** **
>
>
>
> 
>
> I don't enjoy the PLC interference problems, which are rare. When they
> have occurred, Enphase provided continuous technical support, including
> factory evaluation of line filters and enhanced system analysis.  Did you
> know that each Enphase system has a built in spectrum analyzer? Tech
> support can provide a printout of interfering signals to help in
> troubleshooting. Installing a separate AC load center to accept the AC
> return breakers helps with solving these problems.  I understand that the
> next release of Enphase inverters will be Wi-fi, eliminating the PLC
> protocol entirely.  When the communication works, (which it does most of
> the time) it is a very valuable resource.
>
> ** **
>
> I find we have several times the service calls on enphase due to the
> customers thinking their system isn't working, when in fact it the flakey
> PLC network. And all that monitoring is only really telling me about the
> inverters or their networking, since the long term failure rate of the
> panels is several orders of magnitude better than even the best inverter on
> the market.
>
> ** **
>
> I have only seen 2 Xantrex string inverters go out in the last 5 years (no
> surprise there) out of all of the string inverters, and all of the brands.
> But I've seen failure at everyone of our Enphase installs, and usually
> failures every year (1 or 2 dead micros per year per site).
>
> ** **
>
> There is no argument that micros improve flexibility. And
> the potential for a micro to have a higher MTBF is believable. But first
> they need better design, more market experience, and will never reach 25
> year lifespan like they say until they take electrolytic caps out of their
> designs.
>
> ** **
>
> thanks,
>
> Troy Harvey
> -
> Principal Engineer
> Heliocentric
> 801-453-9434
> tahar...@heliocentric.org
>
> 
>
> ___
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>
>


-- 
Michael & Jessica Nelson
MD Electric & Solar Inc.
Office: 707-884-1862
Cell: 707-684-0064
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Dual Channel Inverters; Hosed By Fronius

[Jason Szumlanski]

Why would you "rip apart an array?" We only remove one module in almost
every case, replace the WEEBs, replace the inverter, and we're done. If
there are more than two rows of modules, you might need to remove an
additional module or two, but that takes almost no time. Our steepest roofs
here are typically 6:12, with many shallower, so you folks up north
probably find it much more difficult, and I understand that.

Also, there isn't any rule that you can't charge the customer a diagnostic
fee. We don't because the reimbursement does adequately compensate us, but
if your costs are legitimately higher, recover them from the consumer like
most appliance warranty service companies do.

*Jason Szumlanski** *

*Fafco Solar
*


On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 10:54 AM, Troy Harvey wrote:

>
>
> but it also takes MUCH less time in most cases and can be done much more
> easily by one service technician. It's not a money maker, but it covers
> cost in our neck of the woods.
>
>
>
> How is that possible?
>
>  I get a lousy $150 dollars from enphase to rip apart half of a array just
> to get at the micro inverter. Then I have to put the array back together.
> Its an all day activity for two people for 1 inverter. And then I have to
> do it on the same array the next year again. With a string inverter the
> swap is simple.
>
>
>
> thanks,
>
> Troy Harvey
> -
> Principal Engineer
> Heliocentric
> 801-453-9434
> tahar...@heliocentric.org
>
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase / Inverter failures

[August Goers]

This is fascinating - the majority of the Enphase failures reported on this
list seem to be near coastal areas. I know that is true for us. We've had
extensive failures on the M190 and M210 units close to the ocean. We have
yet to have a single M215 failure so I have my fingers crossed.



SMA has continued to be the most reliable for us but I worry that slowly
their fans will fail. The first gen Fronius units have been horribly
unreliable and have all been replaced. Fronius was excellent in dealing
with the warranty claims. The 2nd Gen Fronius have been pretty good with
just a couple of units DOA and no long term failures yet. Power One, which
is the most interesting to me, is still too new to judge. We've had two
Power One failures so far. I understand that the first 10 and 12 k units
sold in the US had really bad problems but those are fixed now. Xantrex was
horrible but we still have over 100 units in operation after the capacitor
recall.



It's a real crapshoot with all these inverters!



Best,



August



*From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Mike & Jessica
Nelson
*Sent:* Thursday, May 09, 2013 8:45 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase / Inverter failures



Wrenches,

I have had extensive failures on 3 installs that are situated right on the
coastal bluff in Northern California. Once you replace more than one
inverter at one site on one day, the compensation goes from $150.00 per
inverter, to next to nothing for the remaining. Enphase actually sent out
their field services tech, and did a complete swap out on these 3 systems
(with my assistance). It was a long day. But now, 2 years later, we are
seeing more failures. One has had 4 micro failures to date. Once I get away
from the coastal edge, with it's corrosive effect, the failure rate goes
way down. I have asked Enphase to upgrade these 3 systems to the newer M215
system, and am still waiting for a response. I am to the point where I
won't install Enphase within 1/2 mile of the ocean.

Michael D. Nelson

MD Electric & Solar

On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 8:31 AM, Will White 
wrote:

It’s funny because I’ve had a very different experience from everyone
else.  I’ve had lots of Xantrex inverters fail and a few Fronius but not to
the extent that everyone else has.  I’ve only replaced a few Enphase
inverters and they were usually dead out of the box.



Thanks,

Will



*
__
*

Will White

Regional Field Operations Manager – New England



Real Goods Solar

64 Main St.

Montpelier, VT 05602

Tel: (802) 223-7804

Cell: (802) 234-3167

www.realgoodssolar.com





*From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Troy Harvey
*Sent:* Thursday, May 09, 2013 11:06 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase / Inverter failures





I don't enjoy the PLC interference problems, which are rare. When they have
occurred, Enphase provided continuous technical support, including factory
evaluation of line filters and enhanced system analysis.  Did you know that
each Enphase system has a built in spectrum analyzer? Tech support can
provide a printout of interfering signals to help in troubleshooting.
Installing a separate AC load center to accept the AC return breakers helps
with solving these problems.  I understand that the next release of Enphase
inverters will be Wi-fi, eliminating the PLC protocol entirely.  When the
communication works, (which it does most of the time) it is a very valuable
resource.



I find we have several times the service calls on enphase due to the
customers thinking their system isn't working, when in fact it the flakey
PLC network. And all that monitoring is only really telling me about the
inverters or their networking, since the long term failure rate of the
panels is several orders of magnitude better than even the best inverter on
the market.



I have only seen 2 Xantrex string inverters go out in the last 5 years (no
surprise there) out of all of the string inverters, and all of the brands.
But I've seen failure at everyone of our Enphase installs, and usually
failures every year (1 or 2 dead micros per year per site).



There is no argument that micros improve flexibility. And the potential for
a micro to have a higher MTBF is believable. But first they need better
design, more market experience, and will never reach 25 year lifespan like
they say until they take electrolytic caps out of their designs.



thanks,

Troy Harvey
-
Principal Engineer
Heliocentric
801-453-9434
tahar...@heliocentric.org


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Dual Channel Inverters; Hosed By Fronius

[Dave Click]

Another option would be to compensate the customer for lost production 
until you're out there to replace a second inverter. You can credit this 
against Jason's diagnostic fee idea and/or the $150/unit reimbursement 
from Enphase. Each unit down is about $30-60/year depending on location. 
Could help those of you working on tough multi-row installations on 
steep roofs, especially with larger systems and more units to fail.


Downsides:
some customers will insist on individual replacements as needed-- the 
"let's just wait for the second inevitable domino to fall" approach is a 
tricky sell...

weighing $150/unit now vs unknown future Enphase policy
may not be compatible with your warranty policy



On 2013/5/9 11:51, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
Why would you "rip apart an array?" We only remove one module in 
almost every case, replace the WEEBs, replace the inverter, and we're 
done. If there are more than two rows of modules, you might need to 
remove an additional module or two, but that takes almost no time. Our 
steepest roofs here are typically 6:12, with many shallower, so you 
folks up north probably find it much more difficult, and I understand 
that.


Also, there isn't any rule that you can't charge the customer a 
diagnostic fee. We don't because the reimbursement does adequately 
compensate us, but if your costs are legitimately higher, recover them 
from the consumer like most appliance warranty service companies do.


*Jason Szumlanski*//

/Fafco Solar
/



On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 10:54 AM, Troy Harvey 
mailto:tahar...@heliocentric.org>> wrote:





but it also takes MUCH less time in most cases and can be done
much more easily by one service technician. It's not a money
maker, but it covers cost in our neck of the woods.




How is that possible?

 I get a lousy $150 dollars from enphase to rip apart half of a
array just to get at the micro inverter. Then I have to put the
array back together. Its an all day activity for two people for 1
inverter. And then I have to do it on the same array the next year
again. With a string inverter the swap is simple.



thanks,

Troy Harvey
-
Principal Engineer
Heliocentric
801-453-9434 
tahar...@heliocentric.org 





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Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase / Inverter failures

[penobscotsolar]

Living on the coast of Maine, the majority of our M-215 installs
(approximately 200) are along the immediate coast, say, within a couple
thousand feet of salt water. We have had zero failures of this inverter
(M-215) since it came out. We had one non-coastal issue with AC Out Of
Frequency events that Enphase stayed on top of, including extensive
engineer inclusion and even a site visit from an engineer for Enphase out
of Boston, until the problem was fixed. I actually have high praise for
how they dealt with that situation. I do understand the problems that
still occur with the 190's and to a lesser extent the 210's, but I haven't
seen them with the 215's.

Daryl



> This is fascinating - the majority of the Enphase failures reported on
> this
> list seem to be near coastal areas. I know that is true for us. We've had
> extensive failures on the M190 and M210 units close to the ocean. We have
> yet to have a single M215 failure so I have my fingers crossed.
>
>
>
> SMA has continued to be the most reliable for us but I worry that slowly
> their fans will fail. The first gen Fronius units have been horribly
> unreliable and have all been replaced. Fronius was excellent in dealing
> with the warranty claims. The 2nd Gen Fronius have been pretty good with
> just a couple of units DOA and no long term failures yet. Power One, which
> is the most interesting to me, is still too new to judge. We've had two
> Power One failures so far. I understand that the first 10 and 12 k units
> sold in the US had really bad problems but those are fixed now. Xantrex
> was
> horrible but we still have over 100 units in operation after the capacitor
> recall.
>
>
>
> It's a real crapshoot with all these inverters!
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
>
> August
>
>
>
> *From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
> re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Mike & Jessica
> Nelson
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 09, 2013 8:45 AM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase / Inverter failures
>
>
>
> Wrenches,
>
> I have had extensive failures on 3 installs that are situated right on the
> coastal bluff in Northern California. Once you replace more than one
> inverter at one site on one day, the compensation goes from $150.00 per
> inverter, to next to nothing for the remaining. Enphase actually sent out
> their field services tech, and did a complete swap out on these 3 systems
> (with my assistance). It was a long day. But now, 2 years later, we are
> seeing more failures. One has had 4 micro failures to date. Once I get
> away
> from the coastal edge, with it's corrosive effect, the failure rate goes
> way down. I have asked Enphase to upgrade these 3 systems to the newer
> M215
> system, and am still waiting for a response. I am to the point where I
> won't install Enphase within 1/2 mile of the ocean.
>
> Michael D. Nelson
>
> MD Electric & Solar
>
> On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 8:31 AM, Will White 
> wrote:
>
> It’s funny because I’ve had a very different experience from everyone
> else.  I’ve had lots of Xantrex inverters fail and a few Fronius but not
> to
> the extent that everyone else has.  I’ve only replaced a few Enphase
> inverters and they were usually dead out of the box.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Will
>
>
>
> *
> __
> *
>
> Will White
>
> Regional Field Operations Manager – New England
>
>
>
> Real Goods Solar
>
> 64 Main St.
>
> Montpelier, VT 05602
>
> Tel: (802) 223-7804
>
> Cell: (802) 234-3167
>
> www.realgoodssolar.com
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
> re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Troy Harvey
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 09, 2013 11:06 AM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase / Inverter failures
>
>
>
>
>
> I don't enjoy the PLC interference problems, which are rare. When they
> have
> occurred, Enphase provided continuous technical support, including factory
> evaluation of line filters and enhanced system analysis.  Did you know
> that
> each Enphase system has a built in spectrum analyzer? Tech support can
> provide a printout of interfering signals to help in troubleshooting.
> Installing a separate AC load center to accept the AC return breakers
> helps
> with solving these problems.  I understand that the next release of
> Enphase
> inverters will be Wi-fi, eliminating the PLC protocol entirely.  When the
> communication works, (which it does most of the time) it is a very
> valuable
> resource.
>
>
>
> I find we have several times the service calls on enphase due to the
> customers thinking their system isn't working, when in fact it the flakey
> PLC network. And all that monitoring is only really telling me about the
> inverters or their networking, since the long term failure rate of the
> panels is several orders of magnitude better than even the best inverter
> on
> the market.
>
>
>
> I have only seen 2 Xantrex string i

Re: [RE-wrenches] Dual Channel Inverters; Hosed By Fronius

[Dana]

Jason, in many states including CO with a state rebate program, we are
required to have a 10 year warranty for labor & materials.  It is 100%
coverage for the warranty period. Any replacements have been out of our
pockets for the labor response.



Dana Orzel 

Great Solar Works, Inc -  NABCEP # 051112-136

d...@solarwork.com  - www.solarwork.com 

PLEASE ADD & NOTE NEW CELL - C - 208.721.7003 

O - 970.626.5253F - 970.626.4140   

"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  

 

 

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jason
Szumlanski
Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 9:52 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Dual Channel Inverters; Hosed By Fronius

 

Why would you "rip apart an array?" We only remove one module in almost
every case, replace the WEEBs, replace the inverter, and we're done. If
there are more than two rows of modules, you might need to remove an
additional module or two, but that takes almost no time. Our steepest roofs
here are typically 6:12, with many shallower, so you folks up north probably
find it much more difficult, and I understand that.

 

Also, there isn't any rule that you can't charge the customer a diagnostic
fee. We don't because the reimbursement does adequately compensate us, but
if your costs are legitimately higher, recover them from the consumer like
most appliance warranty service companies do.

 

Jason Szumlanski 

Fafco Solar

 

On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 10:54 AM, Troy Harvey 
wrote:

 





but it also takes MUCH less time in most cases and can be done much more
easily by one service technician. It's not a money maker, but it covers cost
in our neck of the woods.

 

 

 

How is that possible?

 

 I get a lousy $150 dollars from enphase to rip apart half of a array just
to get at the micro inverter. Then I have to put the array back together.
Its an all day activity for two people for 1 inverter. And then I have to do
it on the same array the next year again. With a string inverter the swap is
simple.

 

 

 

thanks,

Troy Harvey
-
Principal Engineer
Heliocentric
801-453-9434
tahar...@heliocentric.org

 

 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Dual Channel Inverters; Hosed By Fronius

[Troy Harvey]

> Why would you "rip apart an array?" We only remove one module in almost every 
> case, replace the WEEBs, replace the inverter, and we're done. If there are 
> more than two rows of modules, you might need to remove an additional module 
> or two, but that takes almost no time. Our steepest roofs here are typically 
> 6:12, with many shallower, so you folks up north probably find it much more 
> difficult, and I understand that.

Most residential arrays have several rows. We primarily use a architectural 
rail systems (such as Sunframe). You have to pull up 16' cap strips, pull up 
the panels, un-screw the lugs (WEEBs have not really come to anything but the 
main-stream top clamp style racks), pull out the panels, wade into the middle 
of the array and get to your inverter.


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase / Inverter failures

[Troy Harvey]

All of my enphase failure are in the desert (Utah)

We have had Power-one units in the field for 5 or 6 years.


- Troy Harvey



On May 9, 2013, at 10:28 AM, August Goers  wrote:

> This is fascinating - the majority of the Enphase failures reported on this 
> list seem to be near coastal areas. I know that is true for us. We've had 
> extensive failures on the M190 and M210 units close to the ocean. We have yet 
> to have a single M215 failure so I have my fingers crossed.
>  
> SMA has continued to be the most reliable for us but I worry that slowly 
> their fans will fail. The first gen Fronius units have been horribly 
> unreliable and have all been replaced. Fronius was excellent in dealing with 
> the warranty claims. The 2nd Gen Fronius have been pretty good with just a 
> couple of units DOA and no long term failures yet. Power One, which is the 
> most interesting to me, is still too new to judge. We've had two Power One 
> failures so far. I understand that the first 10 and 12 k units sold in the US 
> had really bad problems but those are fixed now. Xantrex was horrible but we 
> still have over 100 units in operation after the capacitor recall.
>  
> It's a real crapshoot with all these inverters!
>  
> Best,
>  
> August
>  
> From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
> [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Mike & 
> Jessica Nelson
> Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 8:45 AM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase / Inverter failures
>  
> Wrenches,
> I have had extensive failures on 3 installs that are situated right on the 
> coastal bluff in Northern California. Once you replace more than one inverter 
> at one site on one day, the compensation goes from $150.00 per inverter, to 
> next to nothing for the remaining. Enphase actually sent out their field 
> services tech, and did a complete swap out on these 3 systems (with my 
> assistance). It was a long day. But now, 2 years later, we are seeing more 
> failures. One has had 4 micro failures to date. Once I get away from the 
> coastal edge, with it's corrosive effect, the failure rate goes way down. I 
> have asked Enphase to upgrade these 3 systems to the newer M215 system, and 
> am still waiting for a response. I am to the point where I won't install 
> Enphase within 1/2 mile of the ocean.
> Michael D. Nelson
> MD Electric & Solar
> 
> On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 8:31 AM, Will White  
> wrote:
> It’s funny because I’ve had a very different experience from everyone else.  
> I’ve had lots of Xantrex inverters fail and a few Fronius but not to the 
> extent that everyone else has.  I’ve only replaced a few Enphase inverters 
> and they were usually dead out of the box.
>  
> Thanks,
> Will
>  
> __
> Will White
> Regional Field Operations Manager – New England
>  
> Real Goods Solar
> 64 Main St.
> Montpelier, VT 05602
> Tel: (802) 223-7804
> Cell: (802) 234-3167
> www.realgoodssolar.com
>  
>  
> From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
> [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Troy Harvey
> Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 11:06 AM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase / Inverter failures
>  
>  
> I don't enjoy the PLC interference problems, which are rare. When they have 
> occurred, Enphase provided continuous technical support, including factory 
> evaluation of line filters and enhanced system analysis.  Did you know that 
> each Enphase system has a built in spectrum analyzer? Tech support can 
> provide a printout of interfering signals to help in troubleshooting. 
> Installing a separate AC load center to accept the AC return breakers helps 
> with solving these problems.  I understand that the next release of Enphase 
> inverters will be Wi-fi, eliminating the PLC protocol entirely.  When the 
> communication works, (which it does most of the time) it is a very valuable 
> resource.
>  
> I find we have several times the service calls on enphase due to the 
> customers thinking their system isn't working, when in fact it the flakey PLC 
> network. And all that monitoring is only really telling me about the 
> inverters or their networking, since the long term failure rate of the panels 
> is several orders of magnitude better than even the best inverter on the 
> market.
>  
> I have only seen 2 Xantrex string inverters go out in the last 5 years (no 
> surprise there) out of all of the string inverters, and all of the brands. 
> But I've seen failure at everyone of our Enphase installs, and usually 
> failures every year (1 or 2 dead micros per year per site).
>  
> There is no argument that micros improve flexibility. And the potential for a 
> micro to have a higher MTBF is believable. But first they need better design, 
> more market experience, and will never reach 25 year lifespan like they say 
> until they take electrolytic caps out of their design

Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase / Inverter failures

[Kirk]

Let me tell everyone about my Enphase M190 experience. I installed 113 of them 
on a roughly 25kw array several years ago. About 3 months after installation 
the inverters started to piecemeal fail, until the replacement count was close 
to 20. Mind you they were replaced at $150 a pop, which Enphase paid. So after 
this $3k debacle, I called to tell Enphase this was silly and for everyone's 
sake they really should consider replacing all remaining inverters in bulk. 
They immediately agreed. And they upgraded all 113 inverters to M215's. All 
inverters, new trunk cable, and accessories were supplied free of charge and 
shipped for free. Plus we negotiated a labor cost of $9k to do the job. So they 
ultimately paid $12k plus all the materials to make it right. They could have, 
like others in this industry, refused to move a muscle to resolve the 
situation. But they did everything necessary to correct an ugly situation and 
keep me recommending and installing their product as a result. That is 
exemplary customer service. 

Rant on
Don't try to tell me Enphase are warranty slackers, please. Instead of 
stonewalling, or blaming the installer or customer, they stepped up to the 
plate. Perhaps some of the OEM reps on this list could learn something from 
them.
Rant off

Ps. I have 500 remaining M190's across multiple installs in the field. I have 
no other failures.
 Of the now 700+ M215's installed, I have not had 1 failure.

Kirk Herander
VSE

On May 9, 2013, at 4:45 PM, Troy Harvey  wrote:

> All of my enphase failure are in the desert (Utah)
> 
> We have had Power-one units in the field for 5 or 6 years.
> 
> 
> - Troy Harvey
> 
> 
> 
> On May 9, 2013, at 10:28 AM, August Goers  wrote:
> 
>> This is fascinating - the majority of the Enphase failures reported on this 
>> list seem to be near coastal areas. I know that is true for us. We've had 
>> extensive failures on the M190 and M210 units close to the ocean. We have 
>> yet to have a single M215 failure so I have my fingers crossed.
>>  
>> SMA has continued to be the most reliable for us but I worry that slowly 
>> their fans will fail. The first gen Fronius units have been horribly 
>> unreliable and have all been replaced. Fronius was excellent in dealing with 
>> the warranty claims. The 2nd Gen Fronius have been pretty good with just a 
>> couple of units DOA and no long term failures yet. Power One, which is the 
>> most interesting to me, is still too new to judge. We've had two Power One 
>> failures so far. I understand that the first 10 and 12 k units sold in the 
>> US had really bad problems but those are fixed now. Xantrex was horrible but 
>> we still have over 100 units in operation after the capacitor recall.
>>  
>> It's a real crapshoot with all these inverters!
>>  
>> Best,
>>  
>> August
>>  
>> From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
>> [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Mike & 
>> Jessica Nelson
>> Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 8:45 AM
>> To: RE-wrenches
>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase / Inverter failures
>>  
>> Wrenches,
>> I have had extensive failures on 3 installs that are situated right on the 
>> coastal bluff in Northern California. Once you replace more than one 
>> inverter at one site on one day, the compensation goes from $150.00 per 
>> inverter, to next to nothing for the remaining. Enphase actually sent out 
>> their field services tech, and did a complete swap out on these 3 systems 
>> (with my assistance). It was a long day. But now, 2 years later, we are 
>> seeing more failures. One has had 4 micro failures to date. Once I get away 
>> from the coastal edge, with it's corrosive effect, the failure rate goes way 
>> down. I have asked Enphase to upgrade these 3 systems to the newer M215 
>> system, and am still waiting for a response. I am to the point where I won't 
>> install Enphase within 1/2 mile of the ocean.
>> Michael D. Nelson
>> MD Electric & Solar
>> 
>> On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 8:31 AM, Will White  
>> wrote:
>> It’s funny because I’ve had a very different experience from everyone else.  
>> I’ve had lots of Xantrex inverters fail and a few Fronius but not to the 
>> extent that everyone else has.  I’ve only replaced a few Enphase inverters 
>> and they were usually dead out of the box.
>>  
>> Thanks,
>> Will
>>  
>> __
>> Will White
>> Regional Field Operations Manager – New England
>>  
>> Real Goods Solar
>> 64 Main St.
>> Montpelier, VT 05602
>> Tel: (802) 223-7804
>> Cell: (802) 234-3167
>> www.realgoodssolar.com
>>  
>>  
>> From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
>> [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Troy Harvey
>> Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 11:06 AM
>> To: RE-wrenches
>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase / Inverter failures
>>  
>>  
>> I don't enjoy the PLC interference problems, which are rare. When they have 
>> occurr

[RE-wrenches] Fronius warranty payment

[Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems]

What a surprise to receive a phone call from Fronius after 5 months and 
numerous promises to return calls and emails. I'm guessing they got wind of 
recent complaints on this list. The tech, after making a few more excuses, did 
say that the payment will now be processed. So, in fairness, I am reporting 
this. Hmmm?….motivated by "public bitching"?

Larry 


On May 7, 2013, at 1:21 PM, "Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems" 
 wrote:

Bob-O,

Fronius is not good for reimbursement anymore. While they used to be, Fronius 
has refused to pay for warranty service. Since December, 2012, they have 
refused to reimburse me for an inverter swap that THEY told me to make. The 
display had an intermit ant problem. When I swapped out the display board, it 
had the same issue. SO THEY shipped out a replacement and asked me to change it 
out. When they got it back, they claimed that there was no problem found and so 
far have refused to pay.  I made three trips to the site without reimbursement. 

BTW, this is the third time this inverter has had a problem. Fronius….no more 
sold by me.

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems




On May 7, 2013, at 12:14 PM, Bob-O Schultze  
wrote:

Jason,
I'm one of the many installers who still won't touch a micro yet. It's not so 
much that there were failures early on, it's how companies like Enphase HANDLED 
them. My understanding is that you basically got a replacement inverter and got 
stuffed for your time and travel. That may have changed a bit by now but I'm 
betting that the reimbursement is still pretty pitiful.
It's the same with most central inverter failures during warranty with the 
exception of Fronius. There are failures to be sure, BUT Fronius' compensation 
for my time and travel is better than any other manufacturer I've heard about. 
You won't make much money occasionally replacing their failures, but you won't 
get hosed either. And that, fellow Wrenches, is why I use Fronius almost 
exclusively.
Any equipment manu who wants my biz needs to make me whole if/when their 
product bites it during the warranty period. It's bad enough when a product 
that I recommend to my clients goes belly up. Even though it is the product's 
fault, that reflects directly back on ME not the manu. If they won't at least 
compensate me fairly to fix their screw ups, they can just bugger off. 

Bob-O

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase / Inverter failures

[Corey Shalanski]

I would be interested in hearing about other wrenches' observed Enphase
failure rates.

Since 2010 we've installed 1347 total Enphase units with an overall failure
rate of 3.27%

Our breakdown is as follows:

   - M190 - 19/362 = 5.25% failed
   - M210 - 21/545 = 3.85% failed
   - D380 - 3/101 = 2.97% failed
   - M215 - 1/339 = 0.29% failed

--
Corey Shalanski
Joule Energy
New Orleans, LA
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[RE-wrenches] Enphase M240

[Marco Mangelsdorf]

As some of you might have heard, Enphase is bringing to market their newest
micro: the M240 which is already listed on the California Solar Initiative
website.

 

http://www.gosolarcalifornia.ca.gov/equipment/inverters.php

 

Are any of you beta testing this bugger?

 

Thanks,

marco

 

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