Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Combiner
Mac, Try Boltswitch. http://www.boltswitch.com/pdf/135.pdf Dick Ratico Solarwind Electric -- --- You wrote: Hi REwrenches, Does anyone know where I can get a UL listed battery combiner good for 1500A DC, 48V, preferably with a shunt? Does this exist? Thanks -- Mac Lewis --- end of quote --- ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Module defect? Cell interconnections
Benn I personally would not accept these modules, the defect is what you can see and makes me wonder of how good the remainder of the soldered connection is. It is a red flag and very likely will become a problem in the future under load thermal cycling. Shading of the cell is the least of the worries. I have seen cells in the Star Center ( granted 15 years + age and early technology) that did have hot spots developing where there was obvious misalignment of bus bars. Movement of the module can lift the bus bar enough to cause frictional heating. At a very minimum these modules then to be on a watch list to detect issues before they become a real problem. At the module plant I work for this would be an immediate down grade to a B module if it flashed properly and a C grade module if it flashed low. We size our bus bars slightly larger then then the silk screen and if we see any silk screening on the sides it becomes a B grade module and is priced accordingly. Bill On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 2:42 PM, Benn Kilburn b...@skyfireenergy.com wrote: Thanks for your comments Brian. I would also consider these to be low grade, even though we did not order or pay for low grade. I did get in touch with the module manufacturer and found out that these did sneak past their QC checkpoint. I was told that their general tolerance for the bus/ribbon alignment is within 1/2 the ribbon width. I was told that internal arcing is not a concern here because the individual cell is at the same potential, so arcing should not happen with the ribbon/bus being misaligned. Yes, the small amount of cell shading will reduce output, but it is a minute amount of shading, so the loss is negligible.(?) I would appreciate any feedback from any other module manufacturers on this, if we have any on this list? Benn *Benn Kilburn * CSA Certified Solar Photovoltaic Systems Electrician, SkyFire Energy Inc 6706 – 82 Ave NW | Edmonton, AB | T6B 0E7 P: 780-474-8992 | F: 888-405-5843 | www.skyfireenergy.com [image: email] b...@skyfireenergy.com [image: facebook] https://www.facebook.com/SkyFireEnergy [image: twitter] https://twitter.com/SkyFireEnergy [image: linkedin] https://www.linkedin.com/company/283735?trk=tyahtrkInfo=tarId%3A1408655033432%2Ctas%3Askyfire%2Cidx%3A2-2-5 [image: google] https://plus.google.com/+SkyFireEnergy/ [image: SkyFire Energy Logo_horizontal] On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 12:31 PM, Benn Kilburn b...@skyfireenergy.com wrote: Wrenches, Have any of you noticed misaligned cell interconnections like the ones in the attached photo? I'm hesitant to use these and I already returned another module back to the distributer that had several cells with misaligned conductors as well, but just came across these in the order we just picked up. I'm waiting for a reply from he mfgr but in the meantime I'm wondering if any of you have seen this and should we be concerned with quality or safety (arcing?) in the short or long term? Thanks, Benn Benn Kilburn SkyFire Energy Inc. 780-906-7807 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- William Hoffer 161 SE Fourth Ave P.O. Box 1823 White Salmon, WA 98672-1823 suneng...@gmail.com bhof...@sunergyengineeringservices.com ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Solaredge Storedge
Hello, Anyone have detailed info on the Storedge battery-compatible system from Solaredge? I only found a brochure on their website. Apparently batteries can be added to a new or existing Solaredge inverter (the brochure says they have partnered with Tesla's Powerwall) for backup power. They call it DC-coupling. Kirk Herander VT Solar, LLC Proven PV provider since 1991 www.vermontsolarnow.com dba Vermont Solar Engineering NABCEPTM Inaugural Certificant VT RE Incentive Program Partner 802.863.1202 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] SnapNrack
Esteemed Wrenches, Does anyone know of a less tedious and messy way to lube the bolts than squeeze tube anti-seize? My 2 cents; I believe that the torque specs for an engineered assembly are put in there for a reason. Ignoring them puts the installer on the hook for any failures. Aside from being the right thing to do, using torque wrenches helps avoid assuming unnecessary financial risk which my thin margins cannot afford. Kurt Johnsen On Sun, Jun 28, 2015 at 5:27 PM, Ray Walters r...@solarray.com wrote: Besides your note that cordless impact drivers can over torque the clamps, also they spin the bolts too fast which can lead to spalling of the SS hardware. We now hand torque those connects. Finally, most torque specs are for lubricated bolts. We use anti-seize on the threads before torquing. Using a cordless impact driver and no lube can cause not only module damage but also clamp damage, and end up with clamps not actually securing the modules, because the bolts spalled out before fully clamping. R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer303 505-8760 On 6/28/2015 3:06 PM, Benn Kilburn wrote: Chris, It sounds (to me) that you are describing the bonding tooth dug through the aluminum frame and into the glass? or at least compressed the frame enough to break the glass? If that is the case then i'm betting that the clamp bolt was way over-torqued. You need to check the recommended tightening torque for the module and for the racking system you are using. For example, what we are using these days, Kinetic, the tightening torque for mid and end clamps is 12 ft-lb and here are some recommended clamping torques from some different module mfgrs Conergy 8 NM - 6 ft-lb Hanwha 5 NM - 3.7 ft-lb JA Solar 18-24 NM - 13-18 ft-lb These likely vary based on the construction of the module frame. I've also found that some module mfgrs do not list recommended tightening torques in their install manuals, so best to use discretion. We had a module break after clamping it down. The crew described it as 'putting the module in place, clamping it down and turning around to grab the next module and hearing a 'crack' followed by the crackling glass sound (if you have ever heard a module break, the crackling sound can last for a few minutes). The break pattern in the glass seemed to focus on a particular mid clamp. I used a torque wrench, set at around 10 ft-lb and checked all the mid-clamp bolts, increasing the torque setting by a few ft-lb each time until it finally turned a bolt instead of clicking. I found that most of the bolts were close to 30 ft-lb and the one that appeared to break the glass was about 34 ft-lb. Suffice to say, we were getting carried away with tightening using cordless impact drivers. At that point i and the rest of the crew started using the torque wrench as we were going along until we had a better feel for what was the proper torque. (i've done this before, but it is something that needs to be self re-calibrated often. *Benn Kilburn * CSA Certified Solar Photovoltaic Systems Electrician, SkyFire Energy Inc 6706 – 82 Ave NW | Edmonton, AB | T6B 0E7 P: 780-474-8992 | F: 888-405-5843 | www.skyfireenergy.com [image: email] b...@skyfireenergy.com [image: facebook] https://www.facebook.com/SkyFireEnergy [image: twitter] https://twitter.com/SkyFireEnergy [image: linkedin] https://www.linkedin.com/company/283735?trk=tyahtrkInfo=tarId%3A1408655033432%2Ctas%3Askyfire%2Cidx%3A2-2-5 [image: google] https://plus.google.com/+SkyFireEnergy/ [image: SkyFire Energy Logo_horizontal] On Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 5:11 PM, Chris Worcester ch...@solarwindworks.com wrote: Hi Jason, Have you or others been using the new UniRac SM mid and end clamps with the integrated bonding yet? My concern is the “Stainless steel Midclamp points, 2 per module, pierce module frame anodization to bond module to module through clamp.” We had an MSI Alpha + self-bonding midclamp shatter the glass on an LG 280 last fall, as the factory set point was sticking out too far, so as it was being tightened down, on top of the module the point dug through the module’s top frame hitting the glass, shattering it. I do wonder if there are any issues with this “point” on the UniRac midclamps potential for doing the same damage? Chris Worcester Solar Wind Works NABCEP Certified PV Installer Office 530-582-4503 Cell 530-448-9692 Fax 530-582-4603 www.solarwindworks.com ch...@solarwindworks.com *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Jason Szumlanski *Sent:* Thursday, June 25, 2015 1:13 PM *To:* RE-wrenches *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] SnapNrack That decision was based on our distribution network offering better pricing on Unirac, and engineers being comfortable with it. Now with the integrated grounding from
Re: [RE-wrenches] SnapNrack
Kurt, Less messy, yes; less tedious, maybe: anti-seize also comes in a semi-solid stick form, like a large lip balm tube with a cap and a twist dial on the bottom to raise the level of the anti-seize as it's used. One quick rub on the threads per bolt. Purchased through Fastenal. Allan Allan Sindelar al...@sindelarsolar.com NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc. 505 780-2738 cell On 6/29/2015 11:05 AM, Kurt Johnsen wrote: Esteemed Wrenches, Does anyone know of a less tedious and messy way to lube the bolts than squeeze tube anti-seize? My 2 cents; I believe that the torque specs for an engineered assembly are put in there for a reason. Ignoring them puts the installer on the hook for any failures. Aside from being the right thing to do, using torque wrenches helps avoid assuming unnecessary financial risk which my thin margins cannot afford. Kurt Johnsen On Sun, Jun 28, 2015 at 5:27 PM, Ray Walters r...@solarray.com wrote: Besides your note that cordless impact drivers can over torque the clamps, also they spin the bolts too fast which can lead to spalling of the SS hardware. We now hand torque those connects. Finally, most torque specs are for lubricated bolts. We use anti-seize on the threads before torquing. Using a cordless impact driver and no lube can cause not only module damage but also clamp damage, and end up with clamps not actually securing the modules, because the bolts spalled out before fully clamping. R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 On 6/28/2015 3:06 PM, Benn Kilburn wrote: Chris, It sounds (to me) that you are describing the bonding "tooth" dug through the aluminum frame and into the glass? or at least compressed the frame enough to break the glass? If that is the case then i'm betting that the clamp bolt was way over-torqued. You need to check the recommended tightening torque for the module and for the racking system you are using. For example, what we are using these days, Kinetic, the tightening torque for mid and end clamps is 12 ft-lb and here are some recommended clamping torques from some different module mfgrs Conergy 8 NM - 6 ft-lb Hanwha 5 NM - 3.7 ft-lb JA Solar 18-24 NM - 13-18 ft-lb These likely vary based on the construction of the module frame. I've also found that some module mfgrs do not list recommended tightening torques in their install manuals, so best to use discretion. We had a module break after clamping it down. The crew described it as 'putting the module in place, clamping it down and turning around to grab the next module and hearing a 'crack' followed by the crackling glass sound (if you have ever heard a module break, the crackling sound can last for a few minutes). The break pattern in the glass seemed to focus on a particular mid clamp. I used a torque wrench, set at around 10 ft-lb and checked all the mid-clamp bolts, increasing the torque setting by a few ft-lb each time until it finally turned
Re: [RE-wrenches] SnapNrack
Good points Ray. I always warn the crews of galling and to avoid spinning the SS hardware to fast. Another tip is to try to keep the SS hardware out of direct sun prior to using it. Kinetic tells me that their threaded hardware comes with a clear coat of anti-seize. Benn Kilburn SkyFire Energy Inc. 780-906-7807 On Jun 28, 2015, at 3:27 PM, Ray Walters r...@solarray.com wrote: Besides your note that cordless impact drivers can over torque the clamps, also they spin the bolts too fast which can lead to spalling of the SS hardware. We now hand torque those connects. Finally, most torque specs are for lubricated bolts. We use anti-seize on the threads before torquing. Using a cordless impact driver and no lube can cause not only module damage but also clamp damage, and end up with clamps not actually securing the modules, because the bolts spalled out before fully clamping. R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 On 6/28/2015 3:06 PM, Benn Kilburn wrote: Chris, It sounds (to me) that you are describing the bonding tooth dug through the aluminum frame and into the glass? or at least compressed the frame enough to break the glass? If that is the case then i'm betting that the clamp bolt was way over-torqued. You need to check the recommended tightening torque for the module and for the racking system you are using. For example, what we are using these days, Kinetic, the tightening torque for mid and end clamps is 12 ft-lb and here are some recommended clamping torques from some different module mfgrs Conergy 8 NM - 6 ft-lb Hanwha 5 NM - 3.7 ft-lb JA Solar 18-24 NM - 13-18 ft-lb These likely vary based on the construction of the module frame. I've also found that some module mfgrs do not list recommended tightening torques in their install manuals, so best to use discretion. We had a module break after clamping it down. The crew described it as 'putting the module in place, clamping it down and turning around to grab the next module and hearing a 'crack' followed by the crackling glass sound (if you have ever heard a module break, the crackling sound can last for a few minutes). The break pattern in the glass seemed to focus on a particular mid clamp. I used a torque wrench, set at around 10 ft-lb and checked all the mid-clamp bolts, increasing the torque setting by a few ft-lb each time until it finally turned a bolt instead of clicking. I found that most of the bolts were close to 30 ft-lb and the one that appeared to break the glass was about 34 ft-lb. Suffice to say, we were getting carried away with tightening using cordless impact drivers. At that point i and the rest of the crew started using the torque wrench as we were going along until we had a better feel for what was the proper torque. (i've done this before, but it is something that needs to be self re-calibrated often. Benn Kilburn CSA Certified Solar Photovoltaic Systems Electrician, SkyFire Energy Inc 6706 – 82 Ave NW | Edmonton, AB | T6B 0E7 P: 780-474-8992 | F: 888-405-5843 | www.skyfireenergy.com On Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 5:11 PM, Chris Worcester ch...@solarwindworks.com wrote: Hi Jason, Have you or others been using the new UniRac SM mid and end clamps with the integrated bonding yet? My concern is the “Stainless steel Midclamp points, 2 per module, pierce module frame anodization to bond module to module through clamp.” We had an MSI Alpha + self-bonding midclamp shatter the glass on an LG 280 last fall, as the factory set point was sticking out too far, so as it was being tightened down, on top of the module the point dug through the module’s top frame hitting the glass, shattering it. I do wonder if there are any issues with this “point” on the UniRac midclamps potential for doing the same damage? Chris Worcester Solar Wind Works NABCEP Certified PV Installer Office 530-582-4503 Cell 530-448-9692 Fax 530-582-4603 www.solarwindworks.com ch...@solarwindworks.com From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jason Szumlanski Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2015 1:13 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SnapNrack That decision was based on our distribution network offering better pricing on Unirac, and engineers being comfortable with it. Now with the integrated grounding from Unirac, I can't see moving away from it again barring a significant cost benefit. It also stacks and stocks easier than the Ironridge rails. On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 5:55 PM, Dana Brandt d...@ecotechenergy.com wrote: Hi Jason, We've used Unirac for years but have been contemplating Ironridge. I'm curious what your experience was and why you went back to Unirac? Anyone else have input on best racking systems
Re: [RE-wrenches] SnapNrack
Loctite makes anti seize in aerosol cans. Not necessarily less messy but certainly less tedious if all bolts are prepped on the ground and carried up in a bucket for assembly. Roy Rakobitsch NABCEP Certified Small Wind Installer® NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer® Certified Advanced Tower Climbing, Safety Rescue Wind/PV Design Engineer Windsine LLC 631-514-4166 www.windsine.org On Jun 29, 2015 12:32 PM, Ray Walters r...@solarray.com wrote: Anti seize also comes in larger cans with a brush, but it still can get messy. Also on the torque issue, I found just using the T handle hex wrench from the manufacturer (we use S Flex) gets the torque where it should be, and even a gorilla can't over torque it too far. Old fashioned, but we have less heavy tools to carry on the roof, and no over torque issues. With lubed threads, the T handle wrench can twirl, which is almost as fast as using a power tool. R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer303 505-8760 On 6/29/2015 11:12 AM, Allan Sindelar wrote: Kurt, Less messy, yes; less tedious, maybe: anti-seize also comes in a semi-solid stick form, like a large lip balm tube with a cap and a twist dial on the bottom to raise the level of the anti-seize as it's used. One quick rub on the threads per bolt. Purchased through Fastenal. Allan *Allan Sindelar* al...@sindelarsolar.com NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc. *505 780-2738 505%20780-2738 cell* On 6/29/2015 11:05 AM, Kurt Johnsen wrote: Esteemed Wrenches, Does anyone know of a less tedious and messy way to lube the bolts than squeeze tube anti-seize? My 2 cents; I believe that the torque specs for an engineered assembly are put in there for a reason. Ignoring them puts the installer on the hook for any failures. Aside from being the right thing to do, using torque wrenches helps avoid assuming unnecessary financial risk which my thin margins cannot afford. Kurt Johnsen On Sun, Jun 28, 2015 at 5:27 PM, Ray Walters r...@solarray.com wrote: Besides your note that cordless impact drivers can over torque the clamps, also they spin the bolts too fast which can lead to spalling of the SS hardware. We now hand torque those connects. Finally, most torque specs are for lubricated bolts. We use anti-seize on the threads before torquing. Using a cordless impact driver and no lube can cause not only module damage but also clamp damage, and end up with clamps not actually securing the modules, because the bolts spalled out before fully clamping. R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer303 505-8760 On 6/28/2015 3:06 PM, Benn Kilburn wrote: Chris, It sounds (to me) that you are describing the bonding tooth dug through the aluminum frame and into the glass? or at least compressed the frame enough to break the glass? If that is the case then i'm betting that the clamp bolt was way over-torqued. You need to check the recommended tightening torque for the module and for the racking system you are using. For example, what we are using these days, Kinetic, the tightening torque for mid and end clamps is 12 ft-lb and here are some recommended clamping torques from some different module mfgrs Conergy 8 NM - 6 ft-lb Hanwha 5 NM - 3.7 ft-lb JA Solar 18-24 NM - 13-18 ft-lb These likely vary based on the construction of the module frame. I've also found that some module mfgrs do not list recommended tightening torques in their install manuals, so best to use discretion. We had a module break after clamping it down. The crew described it as 'putting the module in place, clamping it down and turning around to grab the next module and hearing a 'crack' followed by the crackling glass sound (if you have ever heard a module break, the crackling sound can last for a few minutes). The break pattern in the glass seemed to focus on a particular mid clamp. I used a torque wrench, set at around 10 ft-lb and checked all the mid-clamp bolts, increasing the torque setting by a few ft-lb each time until it finally turned a bolt instead of clicking. I found that most of the bolts were close to 30 ft-lb and the one that appeared to break the glass was about 34 ft-lb. Suffice to say, we were getting carried away with tightening using cordless impact drivers. At that point i and the rest of the crew started using the torque wrench as we were going along until we had a better feel for what was the proper torque. (i've done this before, but it is something that needs to be self re-calibrated often. *Benn Kilburn * CSA Certified Solar Photovoltaic Systems Electrician, SkyFire Energy Inc 6706 – 82 Ave NW | Edmonton, AB | T6B 0E7 P: 780-474-8992 | F:
Re: [RE-wrenches] Solaredge Storedge
I would think that Solar City would know all about this. Or, maybe I wouldn't ? boB On 6/29/2015 11:06 AM, Rebekah Hren wrote: I don't have any info, but the StorEdge diagram is confusing to me when it says energy independence. I can see a simple compatibility between the Powerwall DC voltage (300 to 400VDC) and the SolarEdge operating voltage, ~350VDC, and I can also see how this setup could be used to maximize self-consumption (a grid-zero type system). What is confusing is the AC output of the inverter - it is not diagrammed as a multimode system, which is what energy independence would indicate to me. The brochure is not showing an AC loads panel that can be isolated from the grid, or any kind of separate transfer switch - which would be necessary for a multimode system. I would be curious to hear what the technical requirements will be to install the system as a multimode system, if that is indeed a possibility - which it may not be. Rebekah On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 8:57 AM, Kirk Herander k...@vtsolar.com mailto:k...@vtsolar.com wrote: Hello, Anyone have detailed info on the Storedge battery-compatible system from Solaredge? I only found a brochure on their website. Apparently batteries can be added to a new or existing Solaredge inverter (the brochure says they have partnered with Tesla’s Powerwall) for backup power. They call it “DC-coupling”. *Kirk Herander* *VT Solar, LLC * */Proven PV provider since 1991/* *www.vermontsolarnow.com http://www.vermontsolarnow.com* dba Vermont Solar Engineering NABCEP^TM Inaugural Certificant VT RE Incentive Program Partner 802.863.1202 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] SnapNrack - Anti-seize
You can use a thin sponge soaked anti-seize and just touch the threads to the sponge. Since it only takes a minute amount of lube to prevent galling, you can prep all your bolts in the shop and bag them. Zip lock the sponge for the next job. Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems On Jun 29, 2015, at 10:05 AM, Kurt Johnsen kjenergysyst...@gmail.com mailto:kjenergysyst...@gmail.com wrote: Esteemed Wrenches, Does anyone know of a less tedious and messy way to lube the bolts than squeeze tube anti-seize? My 2 cents; I believe that the torque specs for an engineered assembly are put in there for a reason. Ignoring them puts the installer on the hook for any failures. Aside from being the right thing to do, using torque wrenches helps avoid assuming unnecessary financial risk which my thin margins cannot afford. Kurt Johnsen ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] SnapNrack
With all this talk of anti-seize in an email thread with SnapNrack as the
subject line, I just wanted to add another comment which is that we have for
several years now shipped all SnapNrack hardware with a wax coating. This
significantly reduces issues with hardware galling even when anti-seize is not
used at all. The coating process on the black hardware seems to even further
reduce galling. We still recommend application of anti-seize as a best
practice but I suspect that 90% (or more) of installs go in without any and
feedback from customers on hardware galling has gone down dramatically since we
rolled this in. Perhaps we should promote it more -
Greg
Greg McPheetersSenior Engineering Manager, SnapNrack
From: Ray Walters r...@solarray.com
To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 10:32 AM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SnapNrack
Anti seize also comes in larger cans with a brush, but it still can get messy.
Also on the torque issue, I found just using the T handle hex wrench from the
manufacturer (we use S Flex) gets the torque where it should be, and even a
gorilla can't over torque it too far.
Old fashioned, but we have less heavy tools to carry on the roof, and no over
torque issues. With lubed threads, the T handle wrench can twirl, which is
almost as fast as using a power tool.
R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760 On 6/29/2015 11:12 AM, Allan Sindelar wrote:
Kurt,
Less messy, yes; less tedious, maybe: anti-seize also comes in a semi-solid
stick form, like a large lip balm tube with a cap and a twist dial on the
bottom to raise the level of the anti-seize as it's used. One quick rub on the
threads per bolt. Purchased through Fastenal.
Allan
!--#yiv1944238807 _filtered #yiv1944238807 {font-family:MS
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al...@sindelarsolar.com
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
505 780-2738 cell
On 6/29/2015 11:05 AM, Kurt Johnsen wrote:
Esteemed Wrenches,
Does anyone know of a less tedious and messy way to lube the bolts than
squeeze tube anti-seize?
My 2 cents; I believe that the torque specs for an engineered assembly are put
in there for a reason. Ignoring them puts the installer on the hook for any
failures. Aside from being the right thing to do, using torque wrenches helps
avoid assuming unnecessary financial risk which my thin margins cannot afford.
Kurt Johnsen
On Sun, Jun 28, 2015 at 5:27 PM, Ray Walters r...@solarray.com wrote:
Besides your note that cordless impact drivers can over torque the clamps,
also they spin the bolts too fast which can lead to spalling of the SS hardware.
We now hand torque those connects. Finally, most torque specs are for
lubricated bolts. We use anti-seize on the threads before torquing.
Using a cordless impact driver and no lube can cause not only module damage
but also clamp damage, and end up with clamps not actually securing the
modules, because the bolts spalled out before fully clamping.
R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760 On 6/28/2015 3:06 PM, Benn Kilburn wrote:
Chris,
It sounds (to me) that you are describing the bonding tooth dug through the
aluminum frame and into the glass? or at least compressed the frame enough to
break the glass? If that is the case then i'm betting that the clamp bolt was
way over-torqued.
You need to check the recommended tightening torque for the module and for the
racking system you are using. For example, what we are using these days,
Kinetic, the tightening torque for mid and end clamps is 12 ft-lb and here are
some recommended clamping torques from some different module mfgrs
Conergy 8 NM - 6 ft-lb
Hanwha 5 NM - 3.7 ft-lb
JA Solar 18-24 NM - 13-18 ft-lb
These likely vary based on the construction of the module frame.
I've also found that some module mfgrs do not list recommended
Re: [RE-wrenches] Solaredge Storedge
I don't have any info, but the StorEdge diagram is confusing to me when it says energy independence. I can see a simple compatibility between the Powerwall DC voltage (300 to 400VDC) and the SolarEdge operating voltage, ~350VDC, and I can also see how this setup could be used to maximize self-consumption (a grid-zero type system). What is confusing is the AC output of the inverter - it is not diagrammed as a multimode system, which is what energy independence would indicate to me. The brochure is not showing an AC loads panel that can be isolated from the grid, or any kind of separate transfer switch - which would be necessary for a multimode system. I would be curious to hear what the technical requirements will be to install the system as a multimode system, if that is indeed a possibility - which it may not be. Rebekah On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 8:57 AM, Kirk Herander k...@vtsolar.com wrote: Hello, Anyone have detailed info on the Storedge battery-compatible system from Solaredge? I only found a brochure on their website. Apparently batteries can be added to a new or existing Solaredge inverter (the brochure says they have partnered with Tesla’s Powerwall) for backup power. They call it “DC-coupling”. *Kirk Herander* *VT Solar, LLC * *Proven PV provider since 1991* *www.vermontsolarnow.com http://www.vermontsolarnow.com* dba Vermont Solar Engineering NABCEPTM Inaugural Certificant VT RE Incentive Program Partner 802.863.1202 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Tel: 336.266.8800 NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional™ 091209-85 NC Licensed Electrical Contractor ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] SnapNrack
We also found that a Q-tip works great for applying the anti seize to the threads without having to disassemble the clamp. R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 On 6/29/2015 11:37 AM, Roy Rakobitsch wrote: Loctite makes anti seize in aerosol cans. Not necessarily less messy but certainly less tedious if all bolts are prepped on the ground and carried up in a bucket for assembly. Roy Rakobitsch NABCEP Certified Small Wind Installer® NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer® Certified Advanced Tower Climbing, Safety Rescue Wind/PV Design Engineer Windsine LLC 631-514-4166 www.windsine.org http://www.windsine.org On Jun 29, 2015 12:32 PM, Ray Walters r...@solarray.com mailto:r...@solarray.com wrote: Anti seize also comes in larger cans with a brush, but it still can get messy. Also on the torque issue, I found just using the T handle hex wrench from the manufacturer (we use S Flex) gets the torque where it should be, and even a gorilla can't over torque it too far. Old fashioned, but we have less heavy tools to carry on the roof, and no over torque issues. With lubed threads, the T handle wrench can twirl, which is almost as fast as using a power tool. R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 tel:303%20505-8760 On 6/29/2015 11:12 AM, Allan Sindelar wrote: Kurt, Less messy, yes; less tedious, maybe: anti-seize also comes in a semi-solid stick form, like a large lip balm tube with a cap and a twist dial on the bottom to raise the level of the anti-seize as it's used. One quick rub on the threads per bolt. Purchased through Fastenal. Allan *Allan Sindelar* al...@sindelarsolar.com mailto:al...@sindelarsolar.com NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc. *505 780-2738 tel:505%20780-2738 cell* On 6/29/2015 11:05 AM, Kurt Johnsen wrote: Esteemed Wrenches, Does anyone know of a less tedious and messy way to lube the bolts than squeeze tube anti-seize? My 2 cents; I believe that the torque specs for an engineered assembly are put in there for a reason. Ignoring them puts the installer on the hook for any failures. Aside from being the right thing to do, using torque wrenches helps avoid assuming unnecessary financial risk which my thin margins cannot afford. Kurt Johnsen On Sun, Jun 28, 2015 at 5:27 PM, Ray Walters r...@solarray.com mailto:r...@solarray.com wrote: Besides your note that cordless impact drivers can over torque the clamps, also they spin the bolts too fast which can lead to spalling of the SS hardware. We now hand torque those connects. Finally, most torque specs are for lubricated bolts. We use anti-seize on the threads before torquing. Using a cordless impact driver and no lube can cause not only module damage but also clamp damage, and end up with clamps not actually securing the modules, because the bolts spalled out before fully clamping. R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 tel:303%20505-8760 On 6/28/2015 3:06 PM, Benn Kilburn wrote: Chris, It sounds (to me) that you are describing the bonding tooth dug through the aluminum frame and into the glass? or at least compressed the frame enough to break the glass? If that is the case then i'm betting that the clamp bolt was way over-torqued. You need to check the recommended tightening torque for the module and for the racking system you are using. For example, what we are using these days, Kinetic, the tightening torque for mid and end clamps is 12 ft-lb and here are some recommended clamping torques from some different module mfgrs Conergy 8 NM - 6 ft-lb Hanwha 5 NM - 3.7 ft-lb JA Solar 18-24 NM - 13-18 ft-lb These likely vary based on the construction of the module frame. I've also found that some module mfgrs do not list recommended tightening torques in their install manuals, so best to use discretion. We had a module break after clamping it down. The crew described it as 'putting the module in place, clamping it down and turning around to grab the next module and hearing a 'crack' followed by the crackling glass sound (if you have ever heard a module break, the crackling sound can last for a few minutes). The break pattern
Re: [RE-wrenches] SnapNrack
Hi Benn, The Alpha+ mid clamps are unique, in that they have mini hex head set screws epoxied into place on the top of the mid clamps, with their sharp little points sticking down to bite into the top of the module’s frame. One of these small set screws was sticking out about an 1/8”, not good, all the rest of them are set at less than 1/16” more like a 1/32”. After it shattered the glass we figured out what had happened, and really started to pay attention to this factory glued in grounding point carefully! That is why I’m wondering about the UniRac’s mid clamp bent down points and the degree of tolerance that UniRac bends these to. Hand torqueing is the best bet for sure, although in the case of this mid clamp it never got close to torque spec when the module’s glass shattered. Chris Worcester Solar Wind Works NABCEP Certified PV Installer Office 530-582-4503 Cell 530-448-9692 Fax 530-582-4603 www.solarwindworks.com ch...@solarwindworks.com From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Benn Kilburn Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2015 2:07 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SnapNrack Chris, It sounds (to me) that you are describing the bonding tooth dug through the aluminum frame and into the glass? or at least compressed the frame enough to break the glass? If that is the case then i'm betting that the clamp bolt was way over-torqued. You need to check the recommended tightening torque for the module and for the racking system you are using. For example, what we are using these days, Kinetic, the tightening torque for mid and end clamps is 12 ft-lb and here are some recommended clamping torques from some different module mfgrs Conergy 8 NM - 6 ft-lb Hanwha 5 NM - 3.7 ft-lb JA Solar 18-24 NM - 13-18 ft-lb These likely vary based on the construction of the module frame. I've also found that some module mfgrs do not list recommended tightening torques in their install manuals, so best to use discretion. We had a module break after clamping it down. The crew described it as 'putting the module in place, clamping it down and turning around to grab the next module and hearing a 'crack' followed by the crackling glass sound (if you have ever heard a module break, the crackling sound can last for a few minutes). The break pattern in the glass seemed to focus on a particular mid clamp. I used a torque wrench, set at around 10 ft-lb and checked all the mid-clamp bolts, increasing the torque setting by a few ft-lb each time until it finally turned a bolt instead of clicking. I found that most of the bolts were close to 30 ft-lb and the one that appeared to break the glass was about 34 ft-lb. Suffice to say, we were getting carried away with tightening using cordless impact drivers. At that point i and the rest of the crew started using the torque wrench as we were going along until we had a better feel for what was the proper torque. (i've done this before, but it is something that needs to be self re-calibrated often. Benn Kilburn CSA Certified Solar Photovoltaic Systems Electrician, SkyFire Energy Inc 6706 – 82 Ave NW | Edmonton, AB | T6B 0E7 P: 780-474-8992 | F: 888-405-5843 | http://www.skyfireenergy.com/ www.skyfireenergy.com mailto:b...@skyfireenergy.com email https://www.facebook.com/SkyFireEnergy facebook https://twitter.com/SkyFireEnergy twitter https://www.linkedin.com/company/283735?trk=tyahtrkInfo=tarId%3A1408655033432%2Ctas%3Askyfire%2Cidx%3A2-2-5 linkedin https://plus.google.com/+SkyFireEnergy/ google SkyFire Energy Logo_horizontal http://www.skyfireenergy.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/SkyFire-Energy-Logo_horizontal.png On Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 5:11 PM, Chris Worcester ch...@solarwindworks.com wrote: Hi Jason, Have you or others been using the new UniRac SM mid and end clamps with the integrated bonding yet? My concern is the “Stainless steel Midclamp points, 2 per module, pierce module frame anodization to bond module to module through clamp.” We had an MSI Alpha + self-bonding midclamp shatter the glass on an LG 280 last fall, as the factory set point was sticking out too far, so as it was being tightened down, on top of the module the point dug through the module’s top frame hitting the glass, shattering it. I do wonder if there are any issues with this “point” on the UniRac midclamps potential for doing the same damage? Chris Worcester Solar Wind Works NABCEP Certified PV Installer Office 530-582-4503 Cell 530-448-9692 Fax 530-582-4603 www.solarwindworks.com ch...@solarwindworks.com From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jason Szumlanski Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2015 1:13 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SnapNrack That decision was based on our distribution network offering better pricing on Unirac, and engineers being comfortable with it. Now with the integrated
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Bank to Inverter Wiring
On 6/29/2015 3:15 PM, Roy Rakobitsch wrote: In my experience, adding large electrolytic filter caps at the inverter seems to help quite a bit with ac ripple issues and increases inverter efficiency a bit as well. Yep, that usually helps.Turns out that if you get just the right amount of battery cable inductance AND just the right amount of inductance, then you can have an LC resonant circuit that makes the voltage go sky high and let out the smoke. But typically, raising the capacitance lowers the resonant frequency enough below 120 Hz that it helps the situation. As far as batteries being part of the loop, yes they are. Just picture their layout as a piece of wire and you can get a feel for that contribution to the loop. You could also place a capacitor or two right where the battery cables come together again. But you gotta stop somewhere. This is more educational or a way to visualize what is going on so that you use the best wiring practices when at all possible. There are other related best practices sort of relating to this as well, as far as wiring chargers and inverters electrically close to the batteries. If you have the charge controllers wired too close to the inverter battery terminals and also have long battery cables, then the inverter will tend to draw more current from the charge controllers rather than the batteries and cause problems with the CC. By wiring the CC positive and negatives closer to the battery terminals, then the inverter MUST draw its power from the battery terminal... The battery acts as kind of a filter for the CC and the CC doesn't get jerked around so much by the inverter's input ripple current. This can help reduce wear and tear on the CC somewhat. But we've been used to wiring the batteries to bus bars inside of a main connector box (E-panel, flexware, whatever), and aren't really given the opportunity to make nice best practice connections, except maybe to make the battery cables as short as possible and twist them as best we can. boB Roy Rakobitsch NABCEP Certified Small Wind Installer® NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer® Certified Advanced Tower Climbing, Safety Rescue Wind/PV Design Engineer Windsine LLC 631-514-4166 www.windsine.org http://www.windsine.org On Jun 29, 2015 5:05 PM, Ray Walters r...@solarray.com mailto:r...@solarray.com wrote: This is fascinating because while I knew the DC cables had an AC component, I never realized how much inductance played in the volt drop to the inverter. Thanks for bringing this to our attention Jarmo. Which brings up another question based on Benn's question: isn't the battery itself part of the inductive loop? and would the lead inside and steel cases act to increase the inductance? Should we consider changing battery layouts not just to shorten cable lengths, but to counter inductance in the batteries themselves? If needed, we could actually wire the batteries to twist by putting every other 2 v cell in the opposite row. My guess is that it wouldn't be worth it, but I've been wrong many times... R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 tel:303%20505-8760 On 6/29/2015 3:55 PM, Benn Kilburn wrote: What about when you have the (+) and (-) terminals at opposite ends of a larger battery bank? Sure you can run the conductors side-by-side once they meet up on their way to the inverter, but would you consider the distance between the end terminals a large loop? Ideally the battery string is laid out so the end terminals are close together and close to the inverter, but this isn't always the case. Benn Kilburn SkyFire Energy Inc. 780-906-7807 tel:780-906-7807 On Jun 29, 2015, at 10:28 AM, jarmo.venalai...@schneider-electric.com mailto:jarmo.venalai...@schneider-electric.com wrote: Hi: From the comments so far, it appears that within the wrenches group, good practices are the rule and DC cables are kept side by side, so the problem I mentioned hasn't come up much. I have seen large loop battery cables a couple of times in solar installs myself out on islands way down south. Also on boats/RV's/motor homes. Please keep the cable loop in mind when you do bench tests of inverters, as it may screw up the results and make it seem like there is something wrong with the inverter. JARMO _ * Jarmo Venalainen* | *Schneider Electric **| Xantrex Brand* | *CANADA* | *Sales Application Engineer* * Phone:* +604-422-2528 tel:%2B604-422-2528 | *Tech Support:* 800-670-0707 tel:800-670-0707 | *Mobile:* +604-505-0291 tel:%2B604-505-0291 * Email:* _jarmo.venalainen@schneider-electric.com_
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Bank to Inverter Wiring
What about when you have the (+) and (-) terminals at opposite ends of a larger battery bank? Sure you can run the conductors side-by-side once they meet up on their way to the inverter, but would you consider the distance between the end terminals a large loop? Ideally the battery string is laid out so the end terminals are close together and close to the inverter, but this isn't always the case. Benn Kilburn SkyFire Energy Inc. 780-906-7807 On Jun 29, 2015, at 10:28 AM, jarmo.venalai...@schneider-electric.com wrote: Hi: From the comments so far, it appears that within the wrenches group, good practices are the rule and DC cables are kept side by side, so the problem I mentioned hasn't come up much. I have seen large loop battery cables a couple of times in solar installs myself out on islands way down south. Also on boats/RV's/motor homes. Please keep the cable loop in mind when you do bench tests of inverters, as it may screw up the results and make it seem like there is something wrong with the inverter. JARMO _ Jarmo Venalainen | Schneider Electric | Xantrex Brand | CANADA | Sales Application Engineer Phone: +604-422-2528 | Tech Support: 800-670-0707 | Mobile: +604-505-0291 Email: jarmo.venalai...@schneider-electric.com | Site: www.Xantrex.com | Address: 3700 Gilmore Way, Burnaby, BC V5G4M1 mime-attachment.gif mime-attachment.gif mime-attachment.gif mime-attachment.gif mime-attachment.gif *** Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail From: b...@midnitesolar.com b...@midnitesolar.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org, Date: 06/28/2015 10:30 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Bank to Inverter Wiring Sent by: RE-wrenches re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org On 6/28/2015 9:20 AM, Allan Sindelar wrote: I'm not an EE, but I can't see what difference twisting would make in the absence of a building/collapsing field as is normal with AC. It is little known that with the typical inverters that use the heavy power transformers, have a lot of AC 120 Hz (or 100 Hz for 50 Hz systems) current mixed in with that DC battery current. The AC output current reflects back to the input as ripple current. This is why you want to have at least short as possible Sbattery cable runs AND keep the wires as close together as possible. Twisting the battery cables may help a bit but that is probably overkill. The problem has to do with inductance in the battery cables. You can use as big of cable as you can fit in to reduce resistance, but that will not help to lower the inductance. The problems you can sometimes have with high inductance is that L-C resonance at the inverter can raise the peak voltages seen at the inverter input terminals and can be hard on the inverter. Then again, the high frequency, lighter weight inverters will typically keep most of that ripple inside, between the DC input and AC output and battery cable inductance will not be as much of a problem on the battery cables. boB Gudgel On 6/28/2015 9:20 AM, Allan Sindelar wrote: As a matter of course I have always run the positive and negative conductors of high-current cable pairs together, but have never deliberately twisted them, and have never known of any related problems. The most obvious example of this would be 4/0 battery/inverter cables in a 24V system, with a 250A GJ-class breaker or (prior to that) a 300A or 400A Class T fuse. It's pretty tough to thread a twisted pair of 4/0 USE/RHH/RHW cables through a 2 elbow or LB from inverter enclosure to battery enclosure. I'm not an EE, but I can't see what difference twisting would make in the absence of a building/collapsing field as is normal with AC. I have twisted AC conductors together in the past when clients have expressed concerns about EMF from their equipment and wiring, but only AC. Allan Allan Sindelar al...@sindelarsolar.com NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc. 505 780-2738 cell On 6/27/2015 2:40 AM, John wrote: That is why for years we have been twisting those leads around each other. I was told it was to cancel out the opposing fields on the wires, but for whatever the correct technical reason is, we have always twisted those heavy wires. John V. From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of jarmo.venalai...@schneider-electric.com Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2015 5:45 a.m. To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Battery Bank to Inverter Wiring Hi: From time to time over the years I've come across systems where the routing of DC cables
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Bank to Inverter Wiring
This is fascinating because while I knew the DC cables had an AC component, I never realized how much inductance played in the volt drop to the inverter. Thanks for bringing this to our attention Jarmo. Which brings up another question based on Benn's question: isn't the battery itself part of the inductive loop? and would the lead inside and steel cases act to increase the inductance? Should we consider changing battery layouts not just to shorten cable lengths, but to counter inductance in the batteries themselves? If needed, we could actually wire the batteries to twist by putting every other 2 v cell in the opposite row. My guess is that it wouldn't be worth it, but I've been wrong many times... R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 On 6/29/2015 3:55 PM, Benn Kilburn wrote: What about when you have the (+) and (-) terminals at opposite ends of a larger battery bank? Sure you can run the conductors side-by-side once they meet up on their way to the inverter, but would you consider the distance between the end terminals a large loop? Ideally the battery string is laid out so the end terminals are close together and close to the inverter, but this isn't always the case. Benn Kilburn SkyFire Energy Inc. 780-906-7807 On Jun 29, 2015, at 10:28 AM, jarmo.venalai...@schneider-electric.com mailto:jarmo.venalai...@schneider-electric.com wrote: Hi: From the comments so far, it appears that within the wrenches group, good practices are the rule and DC cables are kept side by side, so the problem I mentioned hasn't come up much. I have seen large loop battery cables a couple of times in solar installs myself out on islands way down south. Also on boats/RV's/motor homes. Please keep the cable loop in mind when you do bench tests of inverters, as it may screw up the results and make it seem like there is something wrong with the inverter. JARMO _ * Jarmo Venalainen* | *Schneider Electric **| Xantrex Brand* | *CANADA* | *Sales Application Engineer* * Phone:* +604-422-2528 | *Tech Support:* 800-670-0707 | *Mobile:* +604-505-0291 * Email:* _jarmo.venalainen@schneider-electric.com_ mailto:jarmo.venalai...@schneider-electric.com | *Site:*_www.Xantrex.com_ http://www.xantrex.com/ | *Address:* 3700 Gilmore Way, Burnaby, BC V5G4M1 mime-attachment.gif http://www.xantrexrebate.com/ mime-attachment.gif http://www.xantrex.com/ mime-attachment.gif https://www.facebook.com/Xantrex mime-attachment.gif https://twitter.com/Xantrex mime-attachment.gif https://twitter.com/Xantrex *** Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail From: b...@midnitesolar.com mailto:b...@midnitesolar.com b...@midnitesolar.com mailto:b...@midnitesolar.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org, Date: 06/28/2015 10:30 PM Subject:Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Bank to Inverter Wiring Sent by: RE-wrenches re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org On 6/28/2015 9:20 AM, Allan Sindelar wrote: I'm not an EE, but I can't see what difference twisting would make in the absence of a building/collapsing field as is normal with AC. It is little known that with the typical inverters that use the heavy power transformers, have a lot of AC 120 Hz (or 100 Hz for 50 Hz systems) current mixed in with that DC battery current. The AC output current reflects back to the input as ripple current. This is why you want to have at least short as possible Sbattery cable runs AND keep the wires as close together as possible. Twisting the battery cables may help a bit but that is probably overkill. The problem has to do with inductance in the battery cables. You can use as big of cable as you can fit in to reduce resistance, but that will not help to lower the inductance. The problems you can sometimes have with high inductance is that L-C resonance at the inverter can raise the peak voltages seen at the inverter input terminals and can be hard on the inverter. Then again, the high frequency, lighter weight inverters will typically keep most of that ripple inside, between the DC input and AC output and battery cable inductance will not be as much of a problem on the battery cables. boB Gudgel On 6/28/2015 9:20 AM, Allan Sindelar wrote: As a matter of course I have always run the positive and negative conductors of high-current cable pairs together, but have never deliberately twisted them, and have never known of any related problems. The most obvious example of this would be 4/0 battery/inverter cables in a 24V system, with a 250A GJ-class breaker or (prior to that) a 300A or 400A Class T fuse. It's pretty
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Bank to Inverter Wiring
In my experience, adding large electrolytic filter caps at the inverter seems to help quite a bit with ac ripple issues and increases inverter efficiency a bit as well. Roy Rakobitsch NABCEP Certified Small Wind Installer® NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer® Certified Advanced Tower Climbing, Safety Rescue Wind/PV Design Engineer Windsine LLC 631-514-4166 www.windsine.org On Jun 29, 2015 5:05 PM, Ray Walters r...@solarray.com wrote: This is fascinating because while I knew the DC cables had an AC component, I never realized how much inductance played in the volt drop to the inverter. Thanks for bringing this to our attention Jarmo. Which brings up another question based on Benn's question: isn't the battery itself part of the inductive loop? and would the lead inside and steel cases act to increase the inductance? Should we consider changing battery layouts not just to shorten cable lengths, but to counter inductance in the batteries themselves? If needed, we could actually wire the batteries to twist by putting every other 2 v cell in the opposite row. My guess is that it wouldn't be worth it, but I've been wrong many times... R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer303 505-8760 On 6/29/2015 3:55 PM, Benn Kilburn wrote: What about when you have the (+) and (-) terminals at opposite ends of a larger battery bank? Sure you can run the conductors side-by-side once they meet up on their way to the inverter, but would you consider the distance between the end terminals a large loop? Ideally the battery string is laid out so the end terminals are close together and close to the inverter, but this isn't always the case. Benn Kilburn SkyFire Energy Inc. 780-906-7807 On Jun 29, 2015, at 10:28 AM, jarmo.venalai...@schneider-electric.com wrote: Hi: From the comments so far, it appears that within the wrenches group, good practices are the rule and DC cables are kept side by side, so the problem I mentioned hasn't come up much. I have seen large loop battery cables a couple of times in solar installs myself out on islands way down south. Also on boats/RV's/motor homes. Please keep the cable loop in mind when you do bench tests of inverters, as it may screw up the results and make it seem like there is something wrong with the inverter. JARMO _ * Jarmo Venalainen* | * Schneider Electric ** | Xantrex Brand* | *CANADA* | *Sales Application Engineer* * Phone:* +604-422-2528 | *Tech Support:* 800-670-0707 | *Mobile:* +604-505-0291 * Email:* *jarmo.venalai...@schneider-electric.com* jarmo.venalai...@schneider-electric.com | *Site:** www.Xantrex.com* http://www.xantrex.com/ | *Address:* 3700 Gilmore Way, Burnaby, BC V5G4M1 mime-attachment.gif http://www.xantrexrebate.com/ mime-attachment.gif http://www.xantrex.com/ mime-attachment.gif https://www.facebook.com/Xantrex mime-attachment.gif https://twitter.com/Xantrex mime-attachment.gif https://twitter.com/Xantrex *** Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail From: b...@midnitesolar.com b...@midnitesolar.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org, Date: 06/28/2015 10:30 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Bank to Inverter Wiring Sent by: RE-wrenches re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org -- On 6/28/2015 9:20 AM, Allan Sindelar wrote: I'm not an EE, but I can't see what difference twisting would make in the absence of a building/collapsing field as is normal with AC. It is little known that with the typical inverters that use the heavy power transformers, have a lot of AC 120 Hz (or 100 Hz for 50 Hz systems) current mixed in with that DC battery current. The AC output current reflects back to the input as ripple current. This is why you want to have at least short as possible Sbattery cable runs AND keep the wires as close together as possible. Twisting the battery cables may help a bit but that is probably overkill. The problem has to do with inductance in the battery cables. You can use as big of cable as you can fit in to reduce resistance, but that will not help to lower the inductance. The problems you can sometimes have with high inductance is that L-C resonance at the inverter can raise the peak voltages seen at the inverter input terminals and can be hard on the inverter. Then again, the high frequency, lighter weight inverters will typically keep most of that ripple inside, between the DC input and AC output and battery cable inductance will not be as much of a problem on the battery cables. boB Gudgel On 6/28/2015 9:20 AM, Allan Sindelar wrote: As a matter of course I have always run the positive and negative conductors of high-current cable pairs together, but have never
Re: [RE-wrenches] Solaredge Storedge
sadly, all we have left is hopium On Monday, June 29, 2015 12:36pm, Kirk Herander k...@vtsolar.com said: Here’s the reply I just got back from Solaredge: “As this stands ATM Tesla has only announced the product, not finished developing it. As Tesla finalizes it the details will become available. Please click StorEdge on the bottom right of the web page and sign up for the announcements as they come available. Furthermore all of our inverters are compatible with this announcement “ I get a funny vibe about all this hype / vaporware. Announced, but still in development. Kind of like the Powerwall itself. The Powerwall is supposedly sold out through 2016, with $800 mil in advance orders, and no product being shipped. Are there any Powerwalls in operation anywhere in the real world? Even in beta test? Available tech info on both Powerwall and Storedge is basically zero. Too bad nonsense marketing like this causes some potential customers to delay their commitment to install a system. Kirk Herander VT Solar, LLC Proven PV provider since 1991 [ www.vermontsolarnow.com ]( www.vermontsolarnow.com ) dba Vermont Solar Engineering NABCEPTM Inaugural Certificant VT RE Incentive Program Partner 802.863.1202 From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of b...@midnitesolar.com Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 2:56 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Solaredge Storedge I would think that Solar City would know all about this. Or, maybe I wouldn't ? boB On 6/29/2015 11:06 AM, Rebekah Hren wrote: I don't have any info, but the StorEdge diagram is confusing to me when it says energy independence. I can see a simple compatibility between the Powerwall DC voltage (300 to 400VDC) and the SolarEdge operating voltage, ~350VDC, and I can also see how this setup could be used to maximize self-consumption (a grid-zero type system). What is confusing is the AC output of the inverter - it is not diagrammed as a multimode system, which is what energy independence would indicate to me. The brochure is not showing an AC loads panel that can be isolated from the grid, or any kind of separate transfer switch - which would be necessary for a multimode system. I would be curious to hear what the technical requirements will be to install the system as a multimode system, if that is indeed a possibility - which it may not be. Rebekah On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 8:57 AM, Kirk Herander [ k...@vtsolar.com ]( mailto:k...@vtsolar.com ) wrote: Hello, Anyone have detailed info on the Storedge battery-compatible system from Solaredge? I only found a brochure on their website. Apparently batteries can be added to a new or existing Solaredge inverter (the brochure says they have partnered with Tesla’s Powerwall) for backup power. They call it “DC-coupling”. Kirk Herander VT Solar, LLC Proven PV provider since 1991 [ www.vermontsolarnow.com ]( http://www.vermontsolarnow.com ) dba Vermont Solar Engineering NABCEPTM Inaugural Certificant VT RE Incentive Program Partner 802.863.1202 Sent from Finest Planet WebMail. ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Bank to Inverter Wiring
Wrenches We always try to minimize in connection cables as well as home run cables to the shorted length possible, restating batteries to aid this should always be considered as well as positive and negative runs Jerry Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an ATT 4G LTE smartphone div Original message /divdivFrom: Ray Walters r...@solarray.com /divdivDate:06/29/2015 12:05 PM (GMT-10:00) /divdivTo: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org /divdivSubject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Bank to Inverter Wiring /divdiv /divThis is fascinating because while I knew the DC cables had an AC component, I never realized how much inductance played in the volt drop to the inverter. Thanks for bringing this to our attention Jarmo. Which brings up another question based on Benn's question: isn't the battery itself part of the inductive loop? and would the lead inside and steel cases act to increase the inductance? Should we consider changing battery layouts not just to shorten cable lengths, but to counter inductance in the batteries themselves? If needed, we could actually wire the batteries to twist by putting every other 2 v cell in the opposite row. My guess is that it wouldn't be worth it, but I've been wrong many times... R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 On 6/29/2015 3:55 PM, Benn Kilburn wrote: What about when you have the (+) and (-) terminals at opposite ends of a larger battery bank? Sure you can run the conductors side-by-side once they meet up on their way to the inverter, but would you consider the distance between the end terminals a large loop? Ideally the battery string is laid out so the end terminals are close together and close to the inverter, but this isn't always the case. Benn Kilburn SkyFire Energy Inc. 780-906-7807 On Jun 29, 2015, at 10:28 AM, jarmo.venalai...@schneider-electric.com wrote: Hi: From the comments so far, it appears that within the wrenches group, good practices are the rule and DC cables are kept side by side, so the problem I mentioned hasn't come up much. I have seen large loop battery cables a couple of times in solar installs myself out on islands way down south. Also on boats/RV's/motor homes. Please keep the cable loop in mind when you do bench tests of inverters, as it may screw up the results and make it seem like there is something wrong with the inverter. JARMO _ Jarmo Venalainen | Schneider Electric | Xantrex Brand | CANADA | Sales Application Engineer Phone: +604-422-2528 | Tech Support: 800-670-0707 | Mobile: +604-505-0291 Email: jarmo.venalai...@schneider-electric.com | Site: www.Xantrex.com | Address: 3700 Gilmore Way, Burnaby, BC V5G4M1 mime-attachment.gif mime-attachment.gif mime-attachment.gif mime-attachment.gif mime-attachment.gif *** Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail From: b...@midnitesolar.com b...@midnitesolar.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org, Date: 06/28/2015 10:30 PM Subject:Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Bank to Inverter Wiring Sent by:RE-wrenches re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org On 6/28/2015 9:20 AM, Allan Sindelar wrote: I'm not an EE, but I can't see what difference twisting would make in the absence of a building/collapsing field as is normal with AC. It is little known that with the typical inverters that use the heavy power transformers, have a lot of AC 120 Hz (or 100 Hz for 50 Hz systems) current mixed in with that DC battery current. The AC output current reflects back to the input as ripple current. This is why you want to have at least short as possible Sbattery cable runs AND keep the wires as close together as possible. Twisting the battery cables may help a bit but that is probably overkill. The problem has to do with inductance in the battery cables. You can use as big of cable as you can fit in to reduce resistance, but that will not help to lower the inductance. The problems you can sometimes have with high inductance is that L-C resonance at the inverter can raise the peak voltages seen at the inverter input terminals and can be hard on the inverter. Then again, the high frequency, lighter weight inverters will typically keep most of that ripple inside, between the DC input and AC output and battery cable inductance will not be as much of a problem on the battery cables. boB Gudgel On 6/28/2015 9:20 AM, Allan Sindelar wrote: As a matter of course I have always run the positive and negative conductors of high-current cable
[RE-wrenches] Rack hardware, galling
For about the last year, DPW has been sending all the 5/16 nuts which work with their mid and end clamps plus the foot-to-rail connection, splices, etc with a polymer coating on the threads. Since then I have had zero issues with galling or backing nuts off for fine tuning alignments. If your rack manu is not doing this job for you, maybe its time for a phone call. Bill Feather River Solar Electric - Original Message - From: Benn Kilburn To: RE-wrenches Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 10:03 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SnapNrack Good points Ray. I always warn the crews of galling and to avoid spinning the SS hardware to fast. Another tip is to try to keep the SS hardware out of direct sun prior to using it. Kinetic tells me that their threaded hardware comes with a clear coat of anti-seize. Benn Kilburn SkyFire Energy Inc. 780-906-7807 On Jun 28, 2015, at 3:27 PM, Ray Walters r...@solarray.com wrote: Besides your note that cordless impact drivers can over torque the clamps, also they spin the bolts too fast which can lead to spalling of the SS hardware. We now hand torque those connects. Finally, most torque specs are for lubricated bolts. We use anti-seize on the threads before torquing. Using a cordless impact driver and no lube can cause not only module damage but also clamp damage, and end up with clamps not actually securing the modules, because the bolts spalled out before fully clamping. R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760On 6/28/2015 3:06 PM, Benn Kilburn wrote: Chris, It sounds (to me) that you are describing the bonding tooth dug through the aluminum frame and into the glass? or at least compressed the frame enough to break the glass? If that is the case then i'm betting that the clamp bolt was way over-torqued. You need to check the recommended tightening torque for the module and for the racking system you are using. For example, what we are using these days, Kinetic, the tightening torque for mid and end clamps is 12 ft-lb and here are some recommended clamping torques from some different module mfgrs Conergy 8 NM - 6 ft-lb Hanwha 5 NM - 3.7 ft-lb JA Solar 18-24 NM - 13-18 ft-lb These likely vary based on the construction of the module frame. I've also found that some module mfgrs do not list recommended tightening torques in their install manuals, so best to use discretion. We had a module break after clamping it down. The crew described it as 'putting the module in place, clamping it down and turning around to grab the next module and hearing a 'crack' followed by the crackling glass sound (if you have ever heard a module break, the crackling sound can last for a few minutes). The break pattern in the glass seemed to focus on a particular mid clamp. I used a torque wrench, set at around 10 ft-lb and checked all the mid-clamp bolts, increasing the torque setting by a few ft-lb each time until it finally turned a bolt instead of clicking. I found that most of the bolts were close to 30 ft-lb and the one that appeared to break the glass was about 34 ft-lb. Suffice to say, we were getting carried away with tightening using cordless impact drivers. At that point i and the rest of the crew started using the torque wrench as we were going along until we had a better feel for what was the proper torque. (i've done this before, but it is something that needs to be self re-calibrated often. Benn Kilburn CSA Certified Solar Photovoltaic Systems Electrician, SkyFire Energy Inc 6706 – 82 Ave NW | Edmonton, AB | T6B 0E7 P: 780-474-8992 | F: 888-405-5843 | www.skyfireenergy.com On Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 5:11 PM, Chris Worcester ch...@solarwindworks.com wrote: Hi Jason, Have you or others been using the new UniRac SM mid and end clamps with the integrated bonding yet? My concern is the “Stainless steel Midclamp points, 2 per module, pierce module frame anodization to bond module to module through clamp.” We had an MSI Alpha + self-bonding midclamp shatter the glass on an LG 280 last fall, as the factory set point was sticking out too far, so as it was being tightened down, on top of the module the point dug through the module’s top frame hitting the glass, shattering it. I do wonder if there are any issues with this “point” on the UniRac midclamps potential for doing the same damage? Chris Worcester Solar Wind Works NABCEP Certified PV Installer Office 530-582-4503 Cell 530-448-9692 Fax 530-582-4603 www.solarwindworks.com ch...@solarwindworks.com From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jason Szumlanski Sent:
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Bank to Inverter Wiring
Hi: It's not possible to have no loop area at all, but cables should be run in ways to minimize the loop area. If you run the + or - along the side of the batteries for example, then that has the effect of minimizing the total loop. JARMO _ Jarmo Venalainen | Schneider Electric | Xantrex Brand | CANADA | Sales Application Engineer Phone: +604-422-2528 | Tech Support: 800-670-0707 | Mobile: +604-505-0291 Email: jarmo.venalai...@schneider-electric.com | Site: www.Xantrex.com | Address: 3700 Gilmore Way, Burnaby, BC V5G4M1 *** Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail From: Benn Kilburn b...@skyfireenergy.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org, Date: 06/29/2015 02:55 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Bank to Inverter Wiring Sent by: RE-wrenches re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org What about when you have the (+) and (-) terminals at opposite ends of a larger battery bank? Sure you can run the conductors side-by-side once they meet up on their way to the inverter, but would you consider the distance between the end terminals a large loop? Ideally the battery string is laid out so the end terminals are close together and close to the inverter, but this isn't always the case. Benn Kilburn SkyFire Energy Inc. 780-906-7807 On Jun 29, 2015, at 10:28 AM, jarmo.venalai...@schneider-electric.com wrote: Hi: From the comments so far, it appears that within the wrenches group, good practices are the rule and DC cables are kept side by side, so the problem I mentioned hasn't come up much. I have seen large loop battery cables a couple of times in solar installs myself out on islands way down south. Also on boats/RV's/motor homes. Please keep the cable loop in mind when you do bench tests of inverters, as it may screw up the results and make it seem like there is something wrong with the inverter. JARMO _ Jarmo Venalainen | Schneider Electric | Xantrex Brand | CANADA | Sales Application Engineer Phone: +604-422-2528 | Tech Support: 800-670-0707 | Mobile: +604-505-0291 Email: jarmo.venalai...@schneider-electric.com | Site: www.Xantrex.com | Address: 3700 Gilmore Way, Burnaby, BC V5G4M1 mime-attachment.gif mime-attachment.gif mime-attachment.gif mime-attachment.gif mime-attachment.gif *** Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail From: b...@midnitesolar.com b...@midnitesolar.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org, Date: 06/28/2015 10:30 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Bank to Inverter Wiring Sent by: RE-wrenches re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org On 6/28/2015 9:20 AM, Allan Sindelar wrote: I'm not an EE, but I can't see what difference twisting would make in the absence of a building/collapsing field as is normal with AC. It is little known that with the typical inverters that use the heavy power transformers, have a lot of AC 120 Hz (or 100 Hz for 50 Hz systems) current mixed in with that DC battery current. The AC output current reflects back to the input as ripple current. This is why you want to have at least short as possible Sbattery cable runs AND keep the wires as close together as possible. Twisting the battery cables may help a bit but that is probably overkill. The problem has to do with inductance in the battery cables. You can use as big of cable as you can fit in to reduce resistance, but that will not help to lower the inductance. The problems you can sometimes have with high inductance is that L-C resonance at the inverter can raise the peak voltages seen at the inverter input terminals and can be hard on the inverter. Then again, the high frequency, lighter weight inverters will typically keep most of that ripple inside, between the DC input and AC output and battery cable inductance will not be as much of a problem on the battery cables. boB Gudgel On 6/28/2015 9:20 AM, Allan Sindelar wrote: As a matter of course I have always run the positive and negative conductors of high-current cable pairs together, but have never deliberately twisted them, and have never known of any related problems. The most obvious example of this would be 4/0 battery/inverter cables in a 24V system, with a 250A GJ-class breaker or (prior to that) a 300A or 400A Class T fuse. It's pretty tough to thread a twisted pair of 4/0 USE/RHH/RHW cables through a 2 elbow or LB from inverter enclosure to battery enclosure. I'm not an EE, but I can't see what difference twisting would make in the absence of a building/collapsing field as is normal with AC. I have twisted AC conductors together in the past when clients have expressed concerns about EMF from their equipment and wiring, but only AC. Allan Allan Sindelar
Re: [RE-wrenches] Solaredge Storedge
Here's the reply I just got back from Solaredge: As this stands ATM Tesla has only announced the product, not finished developing it. As Tesla finalizes it the details will become available. Please click StorEdge on the bottom right of the web page and sign up for the announcements as they come available. Furthermore all of our inverters are compatible with this announcement I get a funny vibe about all this hype / vaporware. Announced, but still in development. Kind of like the Powerwall itself. The Powerwall is supposedly sold out through 2016, with $800 mil in advance orders, and no product being shipped. Are there any Powerwalls in operation anywhere in the real world? Even in beta test? Available tech info on both Powerwall and Storedge is basically zero. Too bad nonsense marketing like this causes some potential customers to delay their commitment to install a system. Kirk Herander VT Solar, LLC Proven PV provider since 1991 www.vermontsolarnow.com dba Vermont Solar Engineering NABCEPTM Inaugural Certificant VT RE Incentive Program Partner 802.863.1202 From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of b...@midnitesolar.com Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 2:56 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Solaredge Storedge I would think that Solar City would know all about this. Or, maybe I wouldn't ? boB On 6/29/2015 11:06 AM, Rebekah Hren wrote: I don't have any info, but the StorEdge diagram is confusing to me when it says energy independence. I can see a simple compatibility between the Powerwall DC voltage (300 to 400VDC) and the SolarEdge operating voltage, ~350VDC, and I can also see how this setup could be used to maximize self-consumption (a grid-zero type system). What is confusing is the AC output of the inverter - it is not diagrammed as a multimode system, which is what energy independence would indicate to me. The brochure is not showing an AC loads panel that can be isolated from the grid, or any kind of separate transfer switch - which would be necessary for a multimode system. I would be curious to hear what the technical requirements will be to install the system as a multimode system, if that is indeed a possibility - which it may not be. Rebekah On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 8:57 AM, Kirk Herander k...@vtsolar.com wrote: Hello, Anyone have detailed info on the Storedge battery-compatible system from Solaredge? I only found a brochure on their website. Apparently batteries can be added to a new or existing Solaredge inverter (the brochure says they have partnered with Tesla's Powerwall) for backup power. They call it DC-coupling. Kirk Herander VT Solar, LLC Proven PV provider since 1991 www.vermontsolarnow.com dba Vermont Solar Engineering NABCEPTM Inaugural Certificant VT RE Incentive Program Partner 802.863.1202 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
