Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown Off Grid

[Jeremy Rodriguez]

We’ve installed many Midnite BHs with the disconnecting combiners (and battery 
disco modules pre 2017 NEC.)
Recently we set up a roof mounted array with the disconnecting HV combiner 
along with the SOB for the PV Side of the CC. Worked well.
I’d be interested in the OB gear as well.


Jeremy Rodriguez
Solar Installation / Design Expert
All Solar, Inc.
1463 M St
Penrose Colorado 81240

Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand.

On Aug 14, 2018, at 5:45 PM, Ray mailto:r...@solarray.com>> 
wrote:

Hi All;

Its time to beat this poor dead horse again:  What is the latest, greatest ways 
to comply with 690.12 for lower voltage 150 Voc array with a charge controller 
in an off grid system?  At the moment, we are planning on using Midnite's new 
SOB system, and were told that while it won't work with most charge 
controllers, that it does work with Magnum's PT 100.  I'd like to hear from 
folks that have done this, any problems you've had, and also an explanation of 
why their transmitter is powered by 12 vdc, and not 24 or 48 vdc.We 
definitely don't want to have the PV array dependent on AC power, so their AC 
transmitter is out.  If the inverters shut down from low battery voltage, the 
last thing we want is for the array to shut off too.

I've done a few Birdhouse setups and found them to be fatally flawed. If there 
is a nuisance trip, (seemingly relatively common) the customer had to scale the 
roof to reset the PV array to "ON". I'm also looking at Outback, but it seems 
prohibitively expensive.

Thanks,

--
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback FM100

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

I think you would make a huge mistake to not use an all Outback or
Schneider system! No mixing because the web portals are excellent from a
monitoring sense. Much of my income is from monitoring so as they say, I'm
a fan!

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

Dave Howie MichaelsonDave
> I am changing out an off-grid AC coupled SMA SB3000TL inverter tied to a
> dual stack VFX3648 system with a Mate (original - not Mate3) and an FNDC,
> making into a DC coupled array.  It was set up as AC coupled originally
> because of the distance the array was from the system (about 500 feet) and
> high voltagecharge controllers were not available at the time.  Now that
> there are several options, we want to change it because the charging setup
> is less than adequate.  My first choice is to use an Outback FM100, only
> because it keeps all the equipment tied together, although I'm not a big
> fan of Outback these days. What are folks experience with the FM100? And
> apparently it needs a Mate3 (not the Mate) in order to program and read
> it,
> true?  Otherwise I will probably go with either a Midnite 250 SL or a
> Schneider XW80-600.
> TIA,
> Howie Michaelson
> Sun Catcher
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Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
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http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
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text 209 813 0060

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback FM100

[Jay]

Hi Howie

Yes you need a Mate 3 to program  and view data for the FM100

Jay
Peltz power. 

> On Aug 14, 2018, at 5:48 PM, Howie Michaelson  
> wrote:
> 
> I am changing out an off-grid AC coupled SMA SB3000TL inverter tied to a dual 
> stack VFX3648 system with a Mate (original - not Mate3) and an FNDC, making 
> into a DC coupled array.  It was set up as AC coupled originally because of 
> the distance the array was from the system (about 500 feet) and high 
> voltagecharge controllers were not available at the time.  Now that there are 
> several options, we want to change it because the charging setup is less than 
> adequate.  My first choice is to use an Outback FM100, only because it keeps 
> all the equipment tied together, although I'm not a big fan of Outback these 
> days. What are folks experience with the FM100? And apparently it needs a 
> Mate3 (not the Mate) in order to program and read it, true?  Otherwise I will 
> probably go with either a Midnite 250 SL or a Schneider XW80-600.
> TIA,
> Howie Michaelson
> Sun Catcher
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Cell Cracks

[glenn.b...@glbcc.com]

Ray,
Do you feel that these are different from the microfractures or snail trails 
that were  reported widely across the industry a couple of years ago?
Glenn
Sent from my 'smart' phone so please excuse spelling and typos.
-- Original message--From: RayDate: Tue, Aug 14, 2018 10:24 AMTo: 
RE-wrenches;Cc: Subject:[RE-wrenches] Cell Cracks
Hi All;

I've had a colleague ask that I post a couple pictures of what appears 
to be cracks in cells under the glass.  The glass is not damaged.  These 
are Sun Edison modules, so apparently no warranty.  Has anyone seen 
this, and are these possibly dangerous (hot spots) or is this nothing to 
worry about?  An Infrared camera did not show any issues.

As always your invaluable input is always appreciated.

Thanks,

-- 
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Cell Cracks

[Ray]

I haven't seen the actual modules, and I am not that familiar with 
microfractures or snail trails either.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 8/14/18 7:42 PM, glenn.b...@glbcc.com wrote:

Ray,

Do you feel that these are different from the microfractures or snail 
trails that were  reported widely across the industry a couple of 
years ago?


Glenn

Sent from my 'smart' phone so please excuse spelling and typos.

-- Original message--
*From: *Ray
*Date: *Tue, Aug 14, 2018 10:24 AM
*To: *RE-wrenches;
*Cc: *
*Subject:*[RE-wrenches] Cell Cracks

Hi All;

I've had a colleague ask that I post a couple pictures of what appears
to be cracks in cells under the glass.  The glass is not damaged.  These
are Sun Edison modules, so apparently no warranty.  Has anyone seen
this, and are these possibly dangerous (hot spots) or is this nothing to
worry about?  An Infrared camera did not show any issues.

As always your invaluable input is always appreciated.

Thanks,

--
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760 


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[RE-wrenches] Outback FM100

[Howie Michaelson]

I am changing out an off-grid AC coupled SMA SB3000TL inverter tied to a
dual stack VFX3648 system with a Mate (original - not Mate3) and an FNDC,
making into a DC coupled array.  It was set up as AC coupled originally
because of the distance the array was from the system (about 500 feet) and
high voltagecharge controllers were not available at the time.  Now that
there are several options, we want to change it because the charging setup
is less than adequate.  My first choice is to use an Outback FM100, only
because it keeps all the equipment tied together, although I'm not a big
fan of Outback these days. What are folks experience with the FM100? And
apparently it needs a Mate3 (not the Mate) in order to program and read it,
true?  Otherwise I will probably go with either a Midnite 250 SL or a
Schneider XW80-600.
TIA,
Howie Michaelson
Sun Catcher
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[RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown Off Grid

[Ray]

Hi All;

Its time to beat this poor dead horse again:  What is the latest, 
greatest ways to comply with 690.12 for lower voltage 150 Voc array with 
a charge controller in an off grid system?  At the moment, we are 
planning on using Midnite's new SOB system, and were told that while it 
won't work with most charge controllers, that it does work with Magnum's 
PT 100.  I'd like to hear from folks that have done this, any problems 
you've had, and also an explanation of why their transmitter is powered 
by 12 vdc, and not 24 or 48 vdc.    We definitely don't want to have the 
PV array dependent on AC power, so their AC transmitter is out.  If the 
inverters shut down from low battery voltage, the last thing we want is 
for the array to shut off too.


I've done a few Birdhouse setups and found them to be fatally flawed. If 
there is a nuisance trip, (seemingly relatively common) the customer had 
to scale the roof to reset the PV array to "ON". I'm also looking at 
Outback, but it seems prohibitively expensive.


Thanks,

--
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Cell Cracks

[Ray]

I believe these were a roof mount.  I forwarded everyone's comments to 
the other wrench not on the list.


Thanks,

Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 8/14/18 11:50 AM, b...@midnitesolar.com wrote:



My cohort here that used to make PV modules thinks that something may 
have hit the back of the


module ?  Maybe somebody weed-eating around the array and something 
hit it ?


We notice the cracks in Ray's cells are white. Are the backs of these 
modules white too ?


Interesting if they still work but if just a couple of cells out of 60 
or 70 are bad then it might


not be noticeable, electrically ?

boB


On 8/14/2018 7:31 AM, Dave Tedeyan wrote:

Ray,
I have seen this many times while servicing systems. I have not 
noticed it cause any issues,
at least for modules that are 3-8 years old. On one site, I too did 
an IR scan and even curve
traced modules showing this, and there was no difference compared to 
other nearby modules
that did not show this cracking. The attached photo is what I have 
seen a lot of. It is very similar
although not exactly the same as the pattern your photos show. (you 
may need to zoom in to

see it).

Cheers,
Dave


*Dave Tedeyan*
Senior Engineer | Taitem Engineering, PC

10 Verizon Lane | Lansing, NY 14882
o. _607.930.3481_ x6  f. 607.277.2119
www.taitem.com 

Solar •Sustainability • Energy • Design
B-Corporation Best for the World 2018 Honoree

On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 10:23 AM, Ray > wrote:


Hi All;

I've had a colleague ask that I post a couple pictures of what
appears to be cracks in cells under the glass.  The glass is not
damaged.  These are Sun Edison modules, so apparently no
warranty.  Has anyone seen this, and are these possibly dangerous
(hot spots) or is this nothing to worry about?  An Infrared
camera did not show any issues.

As always your invaluable input is always appreciated.

Thanks,

-- 
Ray Walters

Remote Solar
303 505-8760


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Cell Cracks

[b...@midnitesolar.com]

My cohort here that used to make PV modules thinks that something may 
have hit the back of the


module ?  Maybe somebody weed-eating around the array and something hit it ?

We notice the cracks in Ray's cells are white. Are the backs of these 
modules white too ?


Interesting if they still work but if just a couple of cells out of 60 
or 70 are bad then it might


not be noticeable, electrically ?

boB


On 8/14/2018 7:31 AM, Dave Tedeyan wrote:

Ray,
I have seen this many times while servicing systems. I have not 
noticed it cause any issues,
at least for modules that are 3-8 years old. On one site, I too did an 
IR scan and even curve
traced modules showing this, and there was no difference compared to 
other nearby modules
that did not show this cracking. The attached photo is what I have 
seen a lot of. It is very similar
although not exactly the same as the pattern your photos show. (you 
may need to zoom in to

see it).

Cheers,
Dave


*Dave Tedeyan*
Senior Engineer | Taitem Engineering, PC

10 Verizon Lane | Lansing, NY 14882
o. _607.930.3481_ x6  f. 607.277.2119
www.taitem.com 

Solar •Sustainability • Energy • Design
B-Corporation Best for the World 2018 Honoree

On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 10:23 AM, Ray > wrote:


Hi All;

I've had a colleague ask that I post a couple pictures of what
appears to be cracks in cells under the glass.  The glass is not
damaged.  These are Sun Edison modules, so apparently no
warranty.  Has anyone seen this, and are these possibly dangerous
(hot spots) or is this nothing to worry about?  An Infrared camera
did not show any issues.

As always your invaluable input is always appreciated.

Thanks,

-- 
Ray Walters

Remote Solar
303 505-8760


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Cell Cracks

[Jay]

I had a module engineer tell me these are often a static discharge issue which 
happens during the lamination process. 
It’s not effecting the cell surface but the encapsulate above it. 
It’s not cracking but it looks like it. 

Jay 

Peltz power. 



> On Aug 14, 2018, at 7:31 AM, Dave Tedeyan  wrote:
> 
> Ray,
> I have seen this many times while servicing systems. I have not noticed it 
> cause any issues, 
> at least for modules that are 3-8 years old. On one site, I too did an IR 
> scan and even curve 
> traced modules showing this, and there was no difference compared to other 
> nearby modules 
> that did not show this cracking. The attached photo is what I have seen a lot 
> of. It is very similar
> although not exactly the same as the pattern your photos show. (you may need 
> to zoom in to
> see it).
> 
> Cheers,
> Dave
> 
> 
> Dave Tedeyan
> Senior Engineer | Taitem Engineering, PC
> 
> 10 Verizon Lane | Lansing, NY 14882
> o. 607.930.3481 x6  f. 607.277.2119
> www.taitem.com
> 
> Solar • Sustainability • Energy • Design
> B-Corporation Best for the World 2018 Honoree
> 
>> On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 10:23 AM, Ray  wrote:
>> Hi All;
>> 
>> I've had a colleague ask that I post a couple pictures of what appears to be 
>> cracks in cells under the glass.  The glass is not damaged.  These are Sun 
>> Edison modules, so apparently no warranty.  Has anyone seen this, and are 
>> these possibly dangerous (hot spots) or is this nothing to worry about?  An 
>> Infrared camera did not show any issues.
>> 
>> As always your invaluable input is always appreciated.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> -- 
>> Ray Walters
>> Remote Solar
>> 303 505-8760
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Cell Cracks

[Luke Christy]

Ray,
I just saw the same sort of thing on 2-year-old Peimar modules. In my case, 
there were visible hot spots that had burned through the backsheet in several 
places on several modules. In some places it was just small blisters, in others 
there was a clearly melted area of the backsheet. The hot spots seemed clearly 
associated with the cells that had cracks, but they were always at the edges 
and corners of cells. Unfortunately I did not have access to an IR camera to 
view them under load in the sun. 

The manufacturer replaced them under warranty, but I’m not pleased with these 
modules at all.


-Luke Christy

NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™: 



Solar Gain Services, LLC
PO Box 531
Monte Vista, CO. 81144
sgsrenewab...@gmail.com 
719.588.3044
www.sgsrenewables.com 
> 
> Hi All;
> 
> I've had a colleague ask that I post a couple pictures of what appears to be 
> cracks in cells under the glass.  The glass is not damaged.  These are Sun 
> Edison modules, so apparently no warranty.  Has anyone seen this, and are 
> these possibly dangerous (hot spots) or is this nothing to worry about?  An 
> Infrared camera did not show any issues.
> 
> As always your invaluable input is always appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -- 
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> 303 505-8760
> 
> 
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