Re: [RE-wrenches] Operating Voltages Outback RE High Capacity Battery

[Darryl Thayer]

Jay has a real strong point.  If you are near low voltage low state of
charge. Two or 4 hrs from a 4kw array is only 8 to 16 kwh nowhere near 46
kwh.  Given the recomended max charge rate is C/5 you would have to be
charging for days

On Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 10:20 PM John Blittersdorf <
john.blittersd...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Mac,
>If there is a TriMetric or charge controllers, you can get min/max
> voltages each day or since last reset.   I have found that is very useful
> info when large, short duration loads hit.  ie well pump.  I would find on
> one of my 24 v systems that an 18 or 19 v min would indicate that the well
> pump went on when the batteries were quite low and pulled the voltage down
> to low battery cutoff.  If the system does not shut down, you might see a
> voltage lower than the 2 minute setpoint.  I think the FlexNet DC also
> records minimum voltage.  And be sure that the gen start trigger is not the
> flexnet as that is big trouble.
>
> John Blittersdorf.
>
> On Fri, Apr 19, 2019 at 8:06 PM Glenn Burt  wrote:
>
>> Hi Larry,
>>
>>
>>
>> I am curious why you would use the 100Hr rate for this approximation and
>> not the 20 or 24Hr one, since that is the period in which Mac is reporting
>> the anomaly. Happy to learn the details!
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Glenn
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* RE-wrenches  *On
>> Behalf Of *Starlight Solar Power Systems
>> *Sent:* Friday, April 19, 2019 3:10 PM
>> *To:* RE-wrenches 
>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Operating Voltages Outback RE High Capacity
>> Battery
>>
>>
>>
>> Mac,
>>
>>
>>
>> Only removing 6kWh from 46kWh of storage should not be able to produce
>> the voltage sag to trigger AGS. That’s only about 13% at a 100Hr rate.
>> Voltage should be no where near that point. Have you verified actual
>> voltage when the AGS is triggered? Loose wiring or terminal corrosion can
>> cause voltage drop but I would think that an easy find/repair you would
>> have checked.
>>
>>
>>
>> Saying the battery easily charges to 100% worries me as sulfated
>> batteries do that. Healthy LA batteries take many hours to reach full
>> saturation. Has cell voltage been compared for non-uniformity? Has the
>> equalization charge been performed?
>>
>>
>>
>> I am not a fan of the unusual low voltages that Outback prescribes for
>> EnergyCells and seriously wonder how these voltages can properly maintain
>> these cells. CV is below the point where balanced O2 and H2 evolution takes
>> place. But, thats off point.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Larry Crutcher
>> Starlight Solar Power Systems
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 19, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Mac Lewis  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello Wrenches,
>>
>>
>>
>> We recently inherited an Outback system that I've been keeping an eye on
>> via Optics.  Its a dual stack 3648 VFXR, with about 4kW of PV with a single
>> string of EnergyCell 1100RE battery bank (reported to be ~6 months old)
>> ~.46 kWh at C20.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have been observing how the system functions and how the voltage
>> behaves.  We keep getting 2 minute voltage starts on the generator in the
>> middle of the night that don't seem necessary judging from how much energy
>> has been used from the battery bank.  I am hesitant to tweak anything
>> because these battery set-points are a bit different than I'm used to.
>>
>>
>>
>> As per Outback:
>>
>> Absorb Voltage is 55.6V for 2 hours
>>
>> Float Voltage is 54.0V
>>
>>
>>
>> I've slowly been dropping the 2 minute start voltage to see if there is a
>> bottom, but I'm hesitant to take it much lower (maybe I should).
>>
>> 2 minute start voltage: 44.8 V.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The system easily charges the battery bank to 100% (and easily reached
>> the 2 hr absorb time) every day.  The flexnet DC is correctly set up and
>> calibrated.
>>
>>
>>
>> The load on the system is pretty consistent.  They use between 400 and
>> 600W throughout the night.
>>
>>
>>
>> An average night, they may use about 6 kWh before the voltage sags below
>> the 2 minute start voltage and it starts the generator.
>>
>>
>>
>> Just curious if our 2 minute voltage needs to be dropped or if these
>> batteries are degraded.  What corrective changes can I make to get better
>> performance?
>>
>>
>>
>> I have and will call Outback about this, but I'd like other perspectives
>> as well.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks as always for your expertise
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Mac Lewis
>>
>>
>> "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." *-Sócrates*
>>
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List-Archive:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
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>>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Operating Voltages Outback RE High Capacity Battery

[John Blittersdorf]

Mac,
   If there is a TriMetric or charge controllers, you can get min/max
voltages each day or since last reset.   I have found that is very useful
info when large, short duration loads hit.  ie well pump.  I would find on
one of my 24 v systems that an 18 or 19 v min would indicate that the well
pump went on when the batteries were quite low and pulled the voltage down
to low battery cutoff.  If the system does not shut down, you might see a
voltage lower than the 2 minute setpoint.  I think the FlexNet DC also
records minimum voltage.  And be sure that the gen start trigger is not the
flexnet as that is big trouble.

John Blittersdorf.

On Fri, Apr 19, 2019 at 8:06 PM Glenn Burt  wrote:

> Hi Larry,
>
>
>
> I am curious why you would use the 100Hr rate for this approximation and
> not the 20 or 24Hr one, since that is the period in which Mac is reporting
> the anomaly. Happy to learn the details!
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Glenn
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches  *On
> Behalf Of *Starlight Solar Power Systems
> *Sent:* Friday, April 19, 2019 3:10 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches 
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Operating Voltages Outback RE High Capacity
> Battery
>
>
>
> Mac,
>
>
>
> Only removing 6kWh from 46kWh of storage should not be able to produce the
> voltage sag to trigger AGS. That’s only about 13% at a 100Hr rate. Voltage
> should be no where near that point. Have you verified actual voltage when
> the AGS is triggered? Loose wiring or terminal corrosion can cause voltage
> drop but I would think that an easy find/repair you would have checked.
>
>
>
> Saying the battery easily charges to 100% worries me as sulfated batteries
> do that. Healthy LA batteries take many hours to reach full saturation. Has
> cell voltage been compared for non-uniformity? Has the equalization charge
> been performed?
>
>
>
> I am not a fan of the unusual low voltages that Outback prescribes for
> EnergyCells and seriously wonder how these voltages can properly maintain
> these cells. CV is below the point where balanced O2 and H2 evolution takes
> place. But, thats off point.
>
>
>
>
> Larry Crutcher
> Starlight Solar Power Systems
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 19, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Mac Lewis  wrote:
>
>
>
> Hello Wrenches,
>
>
>
> We recently inherited an Outback system that I've been keeping an eye on
> via Optics.  Its a dual stack 3648 VFXR, with about 4kW of PV with a single
> string of EnergyCell 1100RE battery bank (reported to be ~6 months old)
> ~.46 kWh at C20.
>
>
>
> I have been observing how the system functions and how the voltage
> behaves.  We keep getting 2 minute voltage starts on the generator in the
> middle of the night that don't seem necessary judging from how much energy
> has been used from the battery bank.  I am hesitant to tweak anything
> because these battery set-points are a bit different than I'm used to.
>
>
>
> As per Outback:
>
> Absorb Voltage is 55.6V for 2 hours
>
> Float Voltage is 54.0V
>
>
>
> I've slowly been dropping the 2 minute start voltage to see if there is a
> bottom, but I'm hesitant to take it much lower (maybe I should).
>
> 2 minute start voltage: 44.8 V.
>
>
>
>
>
> The system easily charges the battery bank to 100% (and easily reached the
> 2 hr absorb time) every day.  The flexnet DC is correctly set up and
> calibrated.
>
>
>
> The load on the system is pretty consistent.  They use between 400 and
> 600W throughout the night.
>
>
>
> An average night, they may use about 6 kWh before the voltage sags below
> the 2 minute start voltage and it starts the generator.
>
>
>
> Just curious if our 2 minute voltage needs to be dropped or if these
> batteries are degraded.  What corrective changes can I make to get better
> performance?
>
>
>
> I have and will call Outback about this, but I'd like other perspectives
> as well.
>
>
>
> Thanks as always for your expertise
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Mac Lewis
>
>
> "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." *-Sócrates*
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Operating Voltages Outback RE High Capacity Battery

[Glenn Burt]

Hi Larry,

 

I am curious why you would use the 100Hr rate for this approximation and not 
the 20 or 24Hr one, since that is the period in which Mac is reporting the 
anomaly. Happy to learn the details!

 

Thanks,

Glenn 

 

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
Starlight Solar Power Systems
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2019 3:10 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Operating Voltages Outback RE High Capacity Battery

 

Mac,

 

Only removing 6kWh from 46kWh of storage should not be able to produce the 
voltage sag to trigger AGS. That’s only about 13% at a 100Hr rate. Voltage 
should be no where near that point. Have you verified actual voltage when the 
AGS is triggered? Loose wiring or terminal corrosion can cause voltage drop but 
I would think that an easy find/repair you would have checked.

 

Saying the battery easily charges to 100% worries me as sulfated batteries do 
that. Healthy LA batteries take many hours to reach full saturation. Has cell 
voltage been compared for non-uniformity? Has the equalization charge been 
performed? 

 

I am not a fan of the unusual low voltages that Outback prescribes for 
EnergyCells and seriously wonder how these voltages can properly maintain these 
cells. CV is below the point where balanced O2 and H2 evolution takes place. 
But, thats off point.

 


Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems

 

 

 

On Apr 19, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Mac Lewis mailto:maclew...@gmail.com> > wrote:

 

Hello Wrenches,

 

We recently inherited an Outback system that I've been keeping an eye on via 
Optics.  Its a dual stack 3648 VFXR, with about 4kW of PV with a single string 
of EnergyCell 1100RE battery bank (reported to be ~6 months old) ~.46 kWh at 
C20.

 

I have been observing how the system functions and how the voltage behaves.  We 
keep getting 2 minute voltage starts on the generator in the middle of the 
night that don't seem necessary judging from how much energy has been used from 
the battery bank.  I am hesitant to tweak anything because these battery 
set-points are a bit different than I'm used to.

 

As per Outback:

Absorb Voltage is 55.6V for 2 hours

Float Voltage is 54.0V

 

I've slowly been dropping the 2 minute start voltage to see if there is a 
bottom, but I'm hesitant to take it much lower (maybe I should). 

2 minute start voltage: 44.8 V.

 

 

The system easily charges the battery bank to 100% (and easily reached the 2 hr 
absorb time) every day.  The flexnet DC is correctly set up and calibrated.

 

The load on the system is pretty consistent.  They use between 400 and 600W 
throughout the night.

 

An average night, they may use about 6 kWh before the voltage sags below the 2 
minute start voltage and it starts the generator.

 

Just curious if our 2 minute voltage needs to be dropped or if these batteries 
are degraded.  What corrective changes can I make to get better performance?

 

I have and will call Outback about this, but I'd like other perspectives as 
well.

 

Thanks as always for your expertise


 

-- 

 

 

 

Mac Lewis




"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Operating Voltages Outback RE High Capacity Battery

[Jay]

Hi Mac

I don’t know if this is pertinent, but it could be the SOC /fndc getting out of 
calibration. 

I’ve seen this happen if  % SOC charge termination is on ( default). 
Kinda goes into a negative loop. 

The other thought is that 2 hr absorb is pretty short for that size bank, but 
maybe that is OB spec?

Jay
Peltz power. 

> On Apr 19, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Mac Lewis  wrote:
> 
> Hello Wrenches,
> 
> We recently inherited an Outback system that I've been keeping an eye on via 
> Optics.  Its a dual stack 3648 VFXR, with about 4kW of PV with a single 
> string of EnergyCell 1100RE battery bank (reported to be ~6 months old) ~.46 
> kWh at C20.
> 
> I have been observing how the system functions and how the voltage behaves.  
> We keep getting 2 minute voltage starts on the generator in the middle of the 
> night that don't seem necessary judging from how much energy has been used 
> from the battery bank.  I am hesitant to tweak anything because these battery 
> set-points are a bit different than I'm used to.
> 
> As per Outback:
> Absorb Voltage is 55.6V for 2 hours
> Float Voltage is 54.0V
> 
> I've slowly been dropping the 2 minute start voltage to see if there is a 
> bottom, but I'm hesitant to take it much lower (maybe I should). 
> 2 minute start voltage: 44.8 V.
> 
> 
> The system easily charges the battery bank to 100% (and easily reached the 2 
> hr absorb time) every day.  The flexnet DC is correctly set up and calibrated.
> 
> The load on the system is pretty consistent.  They use between 400 and 600W 
> throughout the night.
> 
> An average night, they may use about 6 kWh before the voltage sags below the 
> 2 minute start voltage and it starts the generator.
> 
> Just curious if our 2 minute voltage needs to be dropped or if these 
> batteries are degraded.  What corrective changes can I make to get better 
> performance?
> 
> I have and will call Outback about this, but I'd like other perspectives as 
> well.
> 
> Thanks as always for your expertise
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
> Mac Lewis
> 
> "
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Operating Voltages Outback RE High Capacity Battery

[Starlight Solar Power Systems]

Mac,

Only removing 6kWh from 46kWh of storage should not be able to produce the 
voltage sag to trigger AGS. That’s only about 13% at a 100Hr rate. Voltage 
should be no where near that point. Have you verified actual voltage when the 
AGS is triggered? Loose wiring or terminal corrosion can cause voltage drop but 
I would think that an easy find/repair you would have checked.

Saying the battery easily charges to 100% worries me as sulfated batteries do 
that. Healthy LA batteries take many hours to reach full saturation. Has cell 
voltage been compared for non-uniformity? Has the equalization charge been 
performed? 

I am not a fan of the unusual low voltages that Outback prescribes for 
EnergyCells and seriously wonder how these voltages can properly maintain these 
cells. CV is below the point where balanced O2 and H2 evolution takes place. 
But, thats off point.


Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems




On Apr 19, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Mac Lewis  wrote:

Hello Wrenches,

We recently inherited an Outback system that I've been keeping an eye on via 
Optics.  Its a dual stack 3648 VFXR, with about 4kW of PV with a single string 
of EnergyCell 1100RE battery bank (reported to be ~6 months old) ~.46 kWh at 
C20.

I have been observing how the system functions and how the voltage behaves.  We 
keep getting 2 minute voltage starts on the generator in the middle of the 
night that don't seem necessary judging from how much energy has been used from 
the battery bank.  I am hesitant to tweak anything because these battery 
set-points are a bit different than I'm used to.

As per Outback:
Absorb Voltage is 55.6V for 2 hours
Float Voltage is 54.0V

I've slowly been dropping the 2 minute start voltage to see if there is a 
bottom, but I'm hesitant to take it much lower (maybe I should). 
2 minute start voltage: 44.8 V.


The system easily charges the battery bank to 100% (and easily reached the 2 hr 
absorb time) every day.  The flexnet DC is correctly set up and calibrated.

The load on the system is pretty consistent.  They use between 400 and 600W 
throughout the night.

An average night, they may use about 6 kWh before the voltage sags below the 2 
minute start voltage and it starts the generator.

Just curious if our 2 minute voltage needs to be dropped or if these batteries 
are degraded.  What corrective changes can I make to get better performance?

I have and will call Outback about this, but I'd like other perspectives as 
well.

Thanks as always for your expertise

-- 



Mac Lewis

"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Operating Voltages Outback RE High Capacity Battery

[Howard Arey]

Might want to confirm that the FNDC Relay is off and just the AGS relay is set 
from the Mate menu.

Seems I went through this one time before and excellent Outback support quickly 
surmised the issue for me.

Scot Arey
Solar CenTex

 

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Mac 
Lewis
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2019 12:27 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Operating Voltages Outback RE High Capacity Battery

 

Hello Wrenches,

 

We recently inherited an Outback system that I've been keeping an eye on via 
Optics.  Its a dual stack 3648 VFXR, with about 4kW of PV with a single string 
of EnergyCell 1100RE battery bank (reported to be ~6 months old) ~.46 kWh at 
C20.

 

I have been observing how the system functions and how the voltage behaves.  We 
keep getting 2 minute voltage starts on the generator in the middle of the 
night that don't seem necessary judging from how much energy has been used from 
the battery bank.  I am hesitant to tweak anything because these battery 
set-points are a bit different than I'm used to.

 

As per Outback:

Absorb Voltage is 55.6V for 2 hours

Float Voltage is 54.0V

 

I've slowly been dropping the 2 minute start voltage to see if there is a 
bottom, but I'm hesitant to take it much lower (maybe I should). 

2 minute start voltage: 44.8 V.

 

 

The system easily charges the battery bank to 100% (and easily reached the 2 hr 
absorb time) every day.  The flexnet DC is correctly set up and calibrated.

 

The load on the system is pretty consistent.  They use between 400 and 600W 
throughout the night.

 

An average night, they may use about 6 kWh before the voltage sags below the 2 
minute start voltage and it starts the generator.

 

Just curious if our 2 minute voltage needs to be dropped or if these batteries 
are degraded.  What corrective changes can I make to get better performance?

 

I have and will call Outback about this, but I'd like other perspectives as 
well.

 

Thanks as always for your expertise


 

-- 

 

 

 

Mac Lewis

"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Operating Voltages Outback RE High Capacity Battery

[Mac Lewis]

Good question.  Voltage slowly drops in a fairly linear fashion through out
the night.  If it is a sudden short duration load, it is short  enough that
Optics can't pick it up, or it get's averaged out.  When I've been on site,
I didn't observe any loads that caused concern.

On Fri, Apr 19, 2019 at 11:45 AM Roy Rakobitsch  wrote:

> Using Optics, can you equate the voltage sag/ gen start command with a
> particular load?  Or is the voltage dropping quite evenly over the course
> of the night?  They could actually be degraded if there is no indication of
> a sudden load/ voltage drop. A simple load test when on site can also help
> you replicate and/or get a better picture of whats going on.
>
>
> Roy Rakobitsch
> NABCEP Certified Small Wind Installer®
> Certified Advanced Tower Climbing, Safety & Rescue
> Wind/PV Design Engineer
> Windsine LLC
> 631-514-4166
> www.windsine.org
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 19, 2019 at 12:27 PM Mac Lewis  wrote:
>
>> Hello Wrenches,
>>
>> We recently inherited an Outback system that I've been keeping an eye on
>> via Optics.  Its a dual stack 3648 VFXR, with about 4kW of PV with a single
>> string of EnergyCell 1100RE battery bank (reported to be ~6 months old)
>> ~.46 kWh at C20.
>>
>> I have been observing how the system functions and how the voltage
>> behaves.  We keep getting 2 minute voltage starts on the generator in the
>> middle of the night that don't seem necessary judging from how much energy
>> has been used from the battery bank.  I am hesitant to tweak anything
>> because these battery set-points are a bit different than I'm used to.
>>
>> As per Outback:
>> Absorb Voltage is 55.6V for 2 hours
>> Float Voltage is 54.0V
>>
>> I've slowly been dropping the 2 minute start voltage to see if there is a
>> bottom, but I'm hesitant to take it much lower (maybe I should).
>> 2 minute start voltage: 44.8 V.
>>
>>
>> The system easily charges the battery bank to 100% (and easily reached
>> the 2 hr absorb time) every day.  The flexnet DC is correctly set up and
>> calibrated.
>>
>> The load on the system is pretty consistent.  They use between 400 and
>> 600W throughout the night.
>>
>> An average night, they may use about 6 kWh before the voltage sags below
>> the 2 minute start voltage and it starts the generator.
>>
>> Just curious if our 2 minute voltage needs to be dropped or if these
>> batteries are degraded.  What corrective changes can I make to get better
>> performance?
>>
>> I have and will call Outback about this, but I'd like other perspectives
>> as well.
>>
>> Thanks as always for your expertise
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>> Mac Lewis
>>
>> *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
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Mac Lewis

*"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Operating Voltages Outback RE High Capacity Battery

[Roy Rakobitsch]

Using Optics, can you equate the voltage sag/ gen start command with a
particular load?  Or is the voltage dropping quite evenly over the course
of the night?  They could actually be degraded if there is no indication of
a sudden load/ voltage drop. A simple load test when on site can also help
you replicate and/or get a better picture of whats going on.


Roy Rakobitsch
NABCEP Certified Small Wind Installer®
Certified Advanced Tower Climbing, Safety & Rescue
Wind/PV Design Engineer
Windsine LLC
631-514-4166
www.windsine.org





On Fri, Apr 19, 2019 at 12:27 PM Mac Lewis  wrote:

> Hello Wrenches,
>
> We recently inherited an Outback system that I've been keeping an eye on
> via Optics.  Its a dual stack 3648 VFXR, with about 4kW of PV with a single
> string of EnergyCell 1100RE battery bank (reported to be ~6 months old)
> ~.46 kWh at C20.
>
> I have been observing how the system functions and how the voltage
> behaves.  We keep getting 2 minute voltage starts on the generator in the
> middle of the night that don't seem necessary judging from how much energy
> has been used from the battery bank.  I am hesitant to tweak anything
> because these battery set-points are a bit different than I'm used to.
>
> As per Outback:
> Absorb Voltage is 55.6V for 2 hours
> Float Voltage is 54.0V
>
> I've slowly been dropping the 2 minute start voltage to see if there is a
> bottom, but I'm hesitant to take it much lower (maybe I should).
> 2 minute start voltage: 44.8 V.
>
>
> The system easily charges the battery bank to 100% (and easily reached the
> 2 hr absorb time) every day.  The flexnet DC is correctly set up and
> calibrated.
>
> The load on the system is pretty consistent.  They use between 400 and
> 600W throughout the night.
>
> An average night, they may use about 6 kWh before the voltage sags below
> the 2 minute start voltage and it starts the generator.
>
> Just curious if our 2 minute voltage needs to be dropped or if these
> batteries are degraded.  What corrective changes can I make to get better
> performance?
>
> I have and will call Outback about this, but I'd like other perspectives
> as well.
>
> Thanks as always for your expertise
>
> --
>
>
>
> Mac Lewis
>
> *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
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[RE-wrenches] Operating Voltages Outback RE High Capacity Battery

[Mac Lewis]

Hello Wrenches,

We recently inherited an Outback system that I've been keeping an eye on
via Optics.  Its a dual stack 3648 VFXR, with about 4kW of PV with a single
string of EnergyCell 1100RE battery bank (reported to be ~6 months old)
~.46 kWh at C20.

I have been observing how the system functions and how the voltage
behaves.  We keep getting 2 minute voltage starts on the generator in the
middle of the night that don't seem necessary judging from how much energy
has been used from the battery bank.  I am hesitant to tweak anything
because these battery set-points are a bit different than I'm used to.

As per Outback:
Absorb Voltage is 55.6V for 2 hours
Float Voltage is 54.0V

I've slowly been dropping the 2 minute start voltage to see if there is a
bottom, but I'm hesitant to take it much lower (maybe I should).
2 minute start voltage: 44.8 V.


The system easily charges the battery bank to 100% (and easily reached the
2 hr absorb time) every day.  The flexnet DC is correctly set up and
calibrated.

The load on the system is pretty consistent.  They use between 400 and 600W
throughout the night.

An average night, they may use about 6 kWh before the voltage sags below
the 2 minute start voltage and it starts the generator.

Just curious if our 2 minute voltage needs to be dropped or if these
batteries are degraded.  What corrective changes can I make to get better
performance?

I have and will call Outback about this, but I'd like other perspectives as
well.

Thanks as always for your expertise

-- 



Mac Lewis

*"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 1000 volt

[Harry Mahon]

Bill – A couple items:

  1.  The 3TL-US (along with all the STP TL-US line) has been discontinued, 
and I believe this particular model has been completely sold out.  Some 
Distributors may have stock remaining or you may have already obtained the 
unit.  As Blake noted, if you use this model, it is critical to pay attention 
to service connection requirements.  See technical document: 
https://files.sma.de/dl/7418/STP-US_MV_Trafo-TI-en-13.pdf and particularly the 
table and notes below on page 3.
  2.  Not sure where the array is located on this residential property, but 
single family dwelling roofs are limited to 600V (2014 NEC 690.7(C) or 2017 NEC 
690.7).  If that is where the array is, perhaps the 33kW CORE1-US-41 inverter 
would be an option – it is designed to work with high efficiency down to the 
350VDC level.  The 50kW and 62.5kW units are designed to work best with arrays 
closer to the 1000VDC limit – ok if the array is a large ground mount or 
possibly non-dwelling unit roof. This inverter family requires a 277/480 wye 
service, so a transformer would be required.  Transformer requirements for the 
CORE1 family can also be found in the above linked document.
Best-
Mike

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
Blake Gleason
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2019 5:20 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 1000 volt

Bill,

Watch out for the 480 delta with the SMA inverter.  Even though the product 
literature says it works, it doesn't.  If there's ever a ground fault (PV 
system or customer facility wiring) on one of the 480 legs, the other two legs 
will jump to 480V to ground (with much higher spikes along the way) and blow up 
the varistors on the inverter output stage which are not rated for this 
condition.  We learned this the hard way with 10 out of 24 inverters suffering 
complete failures on one project shortly after they were installed.  We're 
talking catastrophic component failure with bits of varistor all over the 
inverter boards and adjacent components scorched.  In the end, we installed a 
750kVA 480 wye to 480 delta isolation transformer to provide a reliable ground 
reference for the inverters.  In the process of solving this problem, we 
learned of several other sites with the same issue...

Best,
Blake
Sun Light & Power

On Thu, Apr 18, 2019 at 3:44 PM frenergy 
mailto:frene...@psln.com>> wrote:

Wrenches,

I'm tackling a huge residential system that requires back-feeding 
the grid at 480 volts, delta (no neutral, right?). We're going to GT 30-50 KW.  
The SMA SB3TL-US-10 is one of the few inverters (apparently) that can do 
this, which I'm planning to use.  The inverter can be fed up to 1,000 vdc,OC. 
1,000 volt array is new to me.  I assume they have to accept the high voltage 
because its a 30K inverter with only 2 MPPT strings.  My question: Other than 
not getting fried during installation, what's different about wiring the array 
or anything else on the DC side?  I don't see anything in our current (2014) 
code cycle on this that's different than 600 volt.  Tips, advice?

Any links, past webinars, whatever else also helpful would be 
welcome.

Thanks,

Bill
On 4/18/2019 2:32 PM, Starlight Solar Power Systems wrote:
Hi Chris,

SWRC is the remote part name. SW-4024 is the inverter/charge.
I believe all the Trace products from that era use the same BTS with RJ11 plug 
so that should not be a problem.

Larry

[cid:16a32b673f0cc3c664a1]

On Apr 18, 2019, at 10:33 AM, 
ch...@oasismontana.com wrote:

Hi Folks:

Does anyone have a line on a remote option and battery temp sensor for a 
SW-RC4024 (in a customer’s motor coach)?  If so, please contact me off list.   
Thanks.

Sincerely,

Chris Daum
Oasis Montana Inc.
406-777-4309
406-777-4309 fax

www.oasismontana.com





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List-Archive: 

[RE-wrenches] REC 290 TP

[drake . chamberlin]

Does anyone have 4, REC 290 TP modules? Please contact me off the list
if you do.

Thank you,

Drake


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