Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator surging

[Mac Lewis]

Hi William,

You and/or a Kohler tech can log into the RDC2 controller with site tech
and update the controller firmware to the latest version.  Then,  I'd try
adjusting the Engine Speed Gain Adjustment downward in increments of 5
while the Radians are fully connected and charging.  This can help smooth
out overcompensation.  It will also make it slower to respond to load.

Hopefully this helps

On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 3:12 PM Tump  wrote:

> Rains came…. is the Gen shed away from the inverter/batteries/home?  Water
> in conduit?  You made sure that the generator natural was not bonded as the
> tend to be? To jays question; surging changes as the charge rate goes
> down?  Have you removed the air cleaner from the gen set and run it that
> way, under a load? I have seen water vapor freezing in the air filter
> causing surging I have also seen the rubber hose from AC to engine collapse
> under a load then when the load goes away no more surge and under the load
> up surges again and so on.
>
> On Mar 19, 2020, at 10:53 AM, Jay  wrote:
>
> Hi William
>
> 3 questions
>
> Did this system used to work?
>
>
> The surging is happening even with no loads, just battery charging?
>
> Lastly, did you find a charging/ ac amp size that stopped the surging?
> With 30 amps it’s still charging  full rate, if you set it down further
> does it stop?
>
> Jay
>
> Peltz Power.
>
>
>
> On Mar 19, 2020, at 12:20 AM, William Miller 
> wrote:
>
> 
> Mac:
>
>
> I know well what the AC input mode is.  This is the project that had the
> excessive THD on the voltage waveform (>26%f).  Here is a link
> 
>  to the case study.
>
>
> As you can see, we resolved the problem by changing the AC input mode to
> Backup.  After recent rains started and generator run became necessary, the
> client started noticing flickering of lights and refrigerator operation was
> unreliable. We examined the E-Gauge data and could see rapid fluctuations
> in the generator output.  At one point we saw generator power range from
> 19kW to 12Kw and back in about 2 seconds.
>
>
> We isolated the generator into a load bank and it was rock solid.  We
> tried lots of things but when we reconnected the generator to the Radians
> and switched to the Radians to Generator input mode the surging stopped.
> Unfortunately, the Generator mode causes tons of THD, as noted in the case
> study.
>
>
> So we can’t use Generator because of THD, and we can’t use Backup (or
> Support or UPS) because in all these modes the generator surges.
>
>
> By the way, this is a newish Kohler 30RCL.  This should be a rock-solid
> match to a 24 kW Radian system.
>
>
> Like I said, we tried lots of things.  What stopped the surging was to
> open the AC input breaker to Inverter 1.  It did not help to open the input
> to Inverters 2 or 3.  I don’t have a clue as to why this is so…
>
>
> We tried taking Inverter 1 out of the system--moving inverter 2 up to
> Master and Inverter 3 to Slave 1.  The generator still surged. So if anyone
> started to think Inverter 1 was the problem, this was not confirmed.
>
>
> We are certain the neutral bonding is exactly as it should be.  We tripled
> checked this when chasing the THD problems.  We also adjusted input AC from
> 30 to 50 (per port), no improvement.
>
>
> I must say Outback has been very available to us as we try to figure these
> problems out.  I am fortunate that I am working with a senior engineer.  We
> are both currently stumped, but we are going to consult again tomorrow and
> see if any other ideas come to us.
>
>
> Thanks everyone for the input.  More soon.
>
>
> William Miller
>
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Mac Lewis
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 18, 2020 6:35 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator surging
>
>
> Hi William,
>
>
> Do you know what your AC input mode is?
> I'd try playing with this mode.
> If you have a generator, I'd try switching between "generator",
> "support".  You may quickly see a difference.  There is a small diode
> symbol that shows up on the Mate3s screen during generator charging.  I
> don't fully understand what that means but I know that it can affect how a
> generator works with the Radian.
>
>
> Also, you may try lowering the charging current and see how the generator
> responds.
>
>
> What type of generator?  Whats your AC input limits?
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 6:56 PM Jerry Shafer 
> wrote:
>
> Adjust the generator max output in the outback down and see what happens
> Jerry
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 18, 2020, 4:04 PM William Miller 
> wrote:
>
> Friends:
>
>
> I have a 24kW Radian system that is acting up.  The problem is when the
> generator is running, it surges.  Voltage and power go up and down.  We
> connected the generator to a load bank and there was no surging.  This
> makes me think the problem is in the Radian system.
>
>
> Has 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator surging

[William Miller]

Jay:



Thanks for thinking about this.  Answers below.



*From:* Jay [mailto:jay.pe...@gmail.com]
*Sent:* Thursday, March 19, 2020 7:54 AM
*To:* will...@millersolar.com; RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator surging



Hi William



3 questions



Did this system used to work?  Define work.  There was no surging but the
THD was so high GFIs were popping like popcorn.



The surging is happening even with no loads, just battery charging?  I am
pretty sure it is charger loads causing the problem.



Lastly, did you find a charging/ ac amp size that stopped the surging? With
30 amps it’s still charging  full rate, if you set it down further does it
stop?  When the batteries become more fully charged, the charging current
tapers but the generator still surges.



Jay



Peltz Power.







On Mar 19, 2020, at 12:20 AM, William Miller 
wrote:



Mac:



I know well what the AC input mode is.  This is the project that had the
excessive THD on the voltage waveform (>26%f).  Here is a link

to the case study.



As you can see, we resolved the problem by changing the AC input mode to
Backup.  After recent rains started and generator run became necessary, the
client started noticing flickering of lights and refrigerator operation was
unreliable. We examined the E-Gauge data and could see rapid fluctuations
in the generator output.  At one point we saw generator power range from
19kW to 12Kw and back in about 2 seconds.



We isolated the generator into a load bank and it was rock solid.  We tried
lots of things but when we reconnected the generator to the Radians and
switched to the Radians to Generator input mode the surging stopped.
Unfortunately, the Generator mode causes tons of THD, as noted in the case
study.



So we can’t use Generator because of THD, and we can’t use Backup (or
Support or UPS) because in all these modes the generator surges.



By the way, this is a newish Kohler 30RCL.  This should be a rock-solid
match to a 24 kW Radian system.



Like I said, we tried lots of things.  What stopped the surging was to open
the AC input breaker to Inverter 1.  It did not help to open the input to
Inverters 2 or 3.  I don’t have a clue as to why this is so…



We tried taking Inverter 1 out of the system--moving inverter 2 up to
Master and Inverter 3 to Slave 1.  The generator still surged. So if anyone
started to think Inverter 1 was the problem, this was not confirmed.



We are certain the neutral bonding is exactly as it should be.  We tripled
checked this when chasing the THD problems.  We also adjusted input AC from
30 to 50 (per port), no improvement.



I must say Outback has been very available to us as we try to figure these
problems out.  I am fortunate that I am working with a senior engineer.  We
are both currently stumped, but we are going to consult again tomorrow and
see if any other ideas come to us.



Thanks everyone for the input.  More soon.



William Miller





*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
Behalf Of *Mac Lewis
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 18, 2020 6:35 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator surging



Hi William,



Do you know what your AC input mode is?

I'd try playing with this mode.

If you have a generator, I'd try switching between "generator", "support".
You may quickly see a difference.  There is a small diode symbol that shows
up on the Mate3s screen during generator charging.  I don't fully
understand what that means but I know that it can affect how a generator
works with the Radian.



Also, you may try lowering the charging current and see how the generator
responds.



What type of generator?  Whats your AC input limits?



On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 6:56 PM Jerry Shafer 
wrote:

Adjust the generator max output in the outback down and see what happens

Jerry



On Wed, Mar 18, 2020, 4:04 PM William Miller 
wrote:

Friends:



I have a 24kW Radian system that is acting up.  The problem is when the
generator is running, it surges.  Voltage and power go up and down.  We
connected the generator to a load bank and there was no surging.  This
makes me think the problem is in the Radian system.



Has anyone else experienced this?



Thanks in advance for any input.



William Miller

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator surging

[Tump]

Rains came…. is the Gen shed away from the inverter/batteries/home?  Water in 
conduit?  You made sure that the generator natural was not bonded as the tend 
to be? To jays question; surging changes as the charge rate goes down?  Have 
you removed the air cleaner from the gen set and run it that way, under a load? 
I have seen water vapor freezing in the air filter causing surging I have also 
seen the rubber hose from AC to engine collapse under a load then when the load 
goes away no more surge and under the load up surges again and so on. 
> On Mar 19, 2020, at 10:53 AM, Jay  wrote:
> 
> Hi William
> 
> 3 questions
> 
> Did this system used to work?
> 
> 
> The surging is happening even with no loads, just battery charging?
> 
> Lastly, did you find a charging/ ac amp size that stopped the surging? With 
> 30 amps it’s still charging  full rate, if you set it down further does it 
> stop?
> 
> Jay
> 
> Peltz Power. 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mar 19, 2020, at 12:20 AM, William Miller > > wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Mac:
>>  
>> I know well what the AC input mode is.  This is the project that had the 
>> excessive THD on the voltage waveform (>26%f).  Here is a link 
>> 
>>  to the case study.
>>  
>> As you can see, we resolved the problem by changing the AC input mode to 
>> Backup.  After recent rains started and generator run became necessary, the 
>> client started noticing flickering of lights and refrigerator operation was 
>> unreliable. We examined the E-Gauge data and could see rapid fluctuations in 
>> the generator output.  At one point we saw generator power range from 19kW 
>> to 12Kw and back in about 2 seconds.
>>  
>> We isolated the generator into a load bank and it was rock solid.  We tried 
>> lots of things but when we reconnected the generator to the Radians and 
>> switched to the Radians to Generator input mode the surging stopped.  
>> Unfortunately, the Generator mode causes tons of THD, as noted in the case 
>> study.
>>  
>> So we can’t use Generator because of THD, and we can’t use Backup (or 
>> Support or UPS) because in all these modes the generator surges.
>>  
>> By the way, this is a newish Kohler 30RCL.  This should be a rock-solid 
>> match to a 24 kW Radian system.
>>  
>> Like I said, we tried lots of things.  What stopped the surging was to open 
>> the AC input breaker to Inverter 1.  It did not help to open the input to 
>> Inverters 2 or 3.  I don’t have a clue as to why this is so…
>>  
>> We tried taking Inverter 1 out of the system--moving inverter 2 up to Master 
>> and Inverter 3 to Slave 1.  The generator still surged. So if anyone started 
>> to think Inverter 1 was the problem, this was not confirmed.
>>  
>> We are certain the neutral bonding is exactly as it should be.  We tripled 
>> checked this when chasing the THD problems.  We also adjusted input AC from 
>> 30 to 50 (per port), no improvement.
>>  
>> I must say Outback has been very available to us as we try to figure these 
>> problems out.  I am fortunate that I am working with a senior engineer.  We 
>> are both currently stumped, but we are going to consult again tomorrow and 
>> see if any other ideas come to us.
>>  
>> Thanks everyone for the input.  More soon.
>>  
>> William Miller
>>  
>>  
>> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
>> ] On Behalf Of Mac Lewis
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2020 6:35 PM
>> To: RE-wrenches
>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator surging
>>  
>> Hi William,
>>  
>> Do you know what your AC input mode is?  
>> I'd try playing with this mode.  
>> If you have a generator, I'd try switching between "generator", "support".  
>> You may quickly see a difference.  There is a small diode symbol that shows 
>> up on the Mate3s screen during generator charging.  I don't fully understand 
>> what that means but I know that it can affect how a generator works with the 
>> Radian.
>>  
>> Also, you may try lowering the charging current and see how the generator 
>> responds.
>>  
>> What type of generator?  Whats your AC input limits?
>>  
>> On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 6:56 PM Jerry Shafer > > wrote:
>> Adjust the generator max output in the outback down and see what happens
>> Jerry
>>  
>> On Wed, Mar 18, 2020, 4:04 PM William Miller > > wrote:
>> Friends:
>>  
>> I have a 24kW Radian system that is acting up.  The problem is when the 
>> generator is running, it surges.  Voltage and power go up and down.  We 
>> connected the generator to a load bank and there was no surging.  This makes 
>> me think the problem is in the Radian system.
>>  
>> Has anyone else experienced this?
>>  
>> Thanks in advance for any input.
>>  
>> William Miller
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator surging

[Jay]

Hi William

3 questions

Did this system used to work?


The surging is happening even with no loads, just battery charging?

Lastly, did you find a charging/ ac amp size that stopped the surging? With 30 
amps it’s still charging  full rate, if you set it down further does it stop?

Jay

Peltz Power. 



> On Mar 19, 2020, at 12:20 AM, William Miller  wrote:
> 
> 
> Mac:
>  
> I know well what the AC input mode is.  This is the project that had the 
> excessive THD on the voltage waveform (>26%f).  Here is a link to the case 
> study.
>  
> As you can see, we resolved the problem by changing the AC input mode to 
> Backup.  After recent rains started and generator run became necessary, the 
> client started noticing flickering of lights and refrigerator operation was 
> unreliable. We examined the E-Gauge data and could see rapid fluctuations in 
> the generator output.  At one point we saw generator power range from 19kW to 
> 12Kw and back in about 2 seconds.
>  
> We isolated the generator into a load bank and it was rock solid.  We tried 
> lots of things but when we reconnected the generator to the Radians and 
> switched to the Radians to Generator input mode the surging stopped.  
> Unfortunately, the Generator mode causes tons of THD, as noted in the case 
> study.
>  
> So we can’t use Generator because of THD, and we can’t use Backup (or Support 
> or UPS) because in all these modes the generator surges.
>  
> By the way, this is a newish Kohler 30RCL.  This should be a rock-solid match 
> to a 24 kW Radian system.
>  
> Like I said, we tried lots of things.  What stopped the surging was to open 
> the AC input breaker to Inverter 1.  It did not help to open the input to 
> Inverters 2 or 3.  I don’t have a clue as to why this is so…
>  
> We tried taking Inverter 1 out of the system--moving inverter 2 up to Master 
> and Inverter 3 to Slave 1.  The generator still surged. So if anyone started 
> to think Inverter 1 was the problem, this was not confirmed.
>  
> We are certain the neutral bonding is exactly as it should be.  We tripled 
> checked this when chasing the THD problems.  We also adjusted input AC from 
> 30 to 50 (per port), no improvement.
>  
> I must say Outback has been very available to us as we try to figure these 
> problems out.  I am fortunate that I am working with a senior engineer.  We 
> are both currently stumped, but we are going to consult again tomorrow and 
> see if any other ideas come to us.
>  
> Thanks everyone for the input.  More soon.
>  
> William Miller
>  
>  
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On 
> Behalf Of Mac Lewis
> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2020 6:35 PM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator surging
>  
> Hi William,
>  
> Do you know what your AC input mode is?  
> I'd try playing with this mode.  
> If you have a generator, I'd try switching between "generator", "support".  
> You may quickly see a difference.  There is a small diode symbol that shows 
> up on the Mate3s screen during generator charging.  I don't fully understand 
> what that means but I know that it can affect how a generator works with the 
> Radian.
>  
> Also, you may try lowering the charging current and see how the generator 
> responds.
>  
> What type of generator?  Whats your AC input limits?
>  
> On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 6:56 PM Jerry Shafer  wrote:
> Adjust the generator max output in the outback down and see what happens
> Jerry
>  
> On Wed, Mar 18, 2020, 4:04 PM William Miller  wrote:
> Friends:
>  
> I have a 24kW Radian system that is acting up.  The problem is when the 
> generator is running, it surges.  Voltage and power go up and down.  We 
> connected the generator to a load bank and there was no surging.  This makes 
> me think the problem is in the Radian system.
>  
> Has anyone else experienced this?
>  
> Thanks in advance for any input.
>  
> William Miller
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
> 
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
> 
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
> 
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> 
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> 
> Check out or update participant bios:
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> 
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
> 
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
> 
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
> 
> List-Archive: 
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> 
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> Check out or update participant bios:
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> 
> 
>  
> --
>  
>  
>  
> Mac Lewis
> 
> "Yo solo sé que no sé 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Optics systems ghost reprogramming

[Lones Tuss]

Hello All
In regards to this situation.
As an installer if you wish to have access to an new customer or an existing 
Optics account.
The quickest and easiest method is to have the account owner invite you to view 
their system.
They can also grant you full access.
This can be accomplished by clicking on the Cog at the top right of an Optics 
Page
if you hover over the cog System Tool will appear

[cid:image001.png@01D5FDE8.3005E3B0]
Select System Tool
then under the System Tool banner select Profiles

[cid:image002.png@01D5FDE8.3005E3B0]

Towards the bottom of the Profiles page Select
+Add a Person

This is where you enter an email address and allow the desired access level.
Hit send
An email will be sent informing the invitee.
That person will need to have an optics account to see the new system.

So … in the case where  optics information is not available.
Perhaps the customer forgot the Optics name or for a myriad of other situations 
the optics site name is unknown.
Then email tech support 
supp...@outbackpower.com
 We will need proof that you own the system.
Have the Mate Mac address available and have a copy of a receipt or a driver 
license showing the same address as the site address.
Something that proves ownership of the system.
We can then delete the account and a new profile can be created.
I hope this helps.
Take Care


From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of John 
Blittersdorf
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 8:17 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Optics systems ghost reprogramming

Jay,
My guess would be that the profile and site previously set up would have to 
be deleted and set up again.  Without your customers info, you would not be 
able to delete it yourself.  Outback tech support has access to all the 
profiles and sites and would be able to find the site with some info.  
Typically when I have worked with them about an Optics issue, they ask for 
profile or site name. Without that, I’m not sure if MAC address would work for 
them to locate it.  Maybe the customer’s email address they might have used.  
Possibly address of installation.

I have had tech support move a site from one profile to another when I swapped 
out a potentially defective Mate3s only to find out that the Mate3s was not the 
problem.  I had set it up for monitoring so I left it there and took his old 
one (which was almost new) and put it in another customers site to get them 
back on line after a severe lightning strike.  The data of course was showing 
up under the first customers profile.  Tech support was able to move it as a 
new system under the correct customers file.  Optics still shows the old site 
as off line with all data intact.

John Blittersdorf

On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 10:34 PM Jay 
mailto:jay.pe...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi john,

To Chris’s question. What if (all to common) the customer doesn’t have any of 
that data?  How do you reset it?

Jay


On Mar 18, 2020, at 9:01 AM, John Blittersdorf 
mailto:john.blittersd...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Chris,
If the customer has the username and password, they can log in and add your 
email address as a new user.   I find that on all the profiles I’m monitoring, 
there are inconsistencies in finding the screen to add authorized users.  It 
may be because some profiles were initiated by me (preferred method) and I 
added the customer with full control or limited control or the others were 
initiated by the customer with me added with full control and as administrator 
or not.  Tech support should be able to fix it if you are prepared to do other 
desk work while waiting for a half hour or more in the Queue.

John Blittersdorf

On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 6:41 PM Chris Schaefer 
mailto:ch...@solarandwindfx.com>> wrote:
To all,

Lately it seems that I'm taking over more and more off grid projects that have 
become orphaned by the many possers in our off grid world. Believe me when I 
say I'm happy to do it. In regards to Optics I've created my own account so 
that I can view all my clients. The problem I'm running into is that when I try 
to create a new profile by entering the clients Mate3 MAC address I find that 
the address is already registered. The clients don't know anything and the 
installers have disappeared. In some cases the clients do have a login and 
password. So my question to you is what is the work around here? Is there a way 
to locally clear the info at the Mate3 or is this something that has to be done 
at OB HQ? If so, what kind of documentation would be required from the client 
to provide to OB to allow someone else to "take over" administrative rights of 
the system? I did reach out to OB on the issue but have received no response as 
of yet. I will say, when it works it is awesome.

Christopher

On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 9:50 AM Tump mailto:t...@swnl.net>> 
wrote:
Please be aware that the files that are stored in the Mates are not able to be 
overwritten, and this leads to corrupted data among 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Optics systems ghost reprogramming

[John Blittersdorf]

Jay,
My guess would be that the profile and site previously set up would
have to be deleted and set up again.  Without your customers info, you
would not be able to delete it yourself.  Outback tech support has access
to all the profiles and sites and would be able to find the site with some
info.  Typically when I have worked with them about an Optics issue, they
ask for profile or site name. Without that, I’m not sure if MAC address
would work for them to locate it.  Maybe the customer’s email address they
might have used.  Possibly address of installation.

I have had tech support move a site from one profile to another when I
swapped out a potentially defective Mate3s only to find out that the Mate3s
was not the problem.  I had set it up for monitoring so I left it there and
took his old one (which was almost new) and put it in another customers
site to get them back on line after a severe lightning strike.  The data of
course was showing up under the first customers profile.  Tech support was
able to move it as a new system under the correct customers file.  Optics
still shows the old site as off line with all data intact.

John Blittersdorf

On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 10:34 PM Jay  wrote:

> Hi john,
>
> To Chris’s question. What if (all to common) the customer doesn’t have any
> of that data?  How do you reset it?
>
> Jay
>
> On Mar 18, 2020, at 9:01 AM, John Blittersdorf <
> john.blittersd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> 
>
>
> Chris,
> If the customer has the username and password, they can log in and add
> your email address as a new user.   I find that on all the profiles I’m
> monitoring, there are inconsistencies in finding the screen to add
> authorized users.  It may be because some profiles were initiated by me
> (preferred method) and I added the customer with full control or limited
> control or the others were initiated by the customer with me added with
> full control and as administrator or not.  Tech support should be able to
> fix it if you are prepared to do other desk work while waiting for a half
> hour or more in the Queue.
>
> John Blittersdorf
>
> On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 6:41 PM Chris Schaefer 
> wrote:
>
>> To all,
>>
>> Lately it seems that I'm taking over more and more off grid projects that
>> have become orphaned by the many possers in our off grid world. Believe me
>> when I say I'm happy to do it. In regards to Optics I've created my own
>> account so that I can view all my clients. The problem I'm running into is
>> that when I try to create a new profile by entering the clients Mate3 MAC
>> address I find that the address is already registered. The clients don't
>> know anything and the installers have disappeared. In some cases the
>> clients do have a login and password. So my question to you is what is the
>> work around here? Is there a way to locally clear the info at the Mate3 or
>> is this something that has to be done at OB HQ? If so, what kind of
>> documentation would be required from the client to provide to OB to allow
>> someone else to "take over" administrative rights of the system? I did
>> reach out to OB on the issue but have received no response as of yet. I
>> will say, when it works it is awesome.
>>
>> Christopher
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 9:50 AM Tump  wrote:
>>
>>> Please be aware that the files that are stored in the Mates are not able
>>> to be overwritten, and this leads to corrupted data among other mystery
>>> issues. Contact Kris Stone, a former OB employee, he has the ability to
>>> erase the old files. I no longer travel w/o updated M3s and the firmware to
>>> up date. IF I have an issue, I will copy settings in the older Mate and
>>> leave my new one in place until I get it addressed by Kris.
>>> FYI OB just closed down 1 their offices and moved (those who still had
>>> jobs) to I believe Bellingham. Lonus?
>>> Kris Stone, 425-233-0731 stkri...@yahoo.com
>>>
>>> On Mar 16, 2020, at 6:37 PM, Dan Fink  wrote:
>>>
>>> William, Michael; I have never seen spontaneous reprogramming of the
>>> AGS, but it sure does give me something to watch out for on the Optics
>>> systems I've installed, thanks for that!
>>>
>>> What I did see (last month) was an Optics system (no AGS) shut down the
>>> web gateway, saying the firmware in the charge controllers (old MX60s) and
>>> the Flexnet DC need to be updated, but all are too old, the firmware can't
>>> be updated as far as I know. It also lost the Port #s for the 2 MX60s and
>>> FlexNet DC and needs them re-entered.
>>>
>>> Oddly, the battery SOC is the only data showing in the Optics Portal,
>>> but it's saying 67% SOC, which (I hope!) is incorrect, as the site has had
>>> full sun, hardly a cloud in the sky, for over 3 days now, and the system is
>>> designed to charge from 50% SOC to full on one sunny day.
>>>
>>> The Mate 3S firmware isn't flagged for an update, but there is a newer
>>> version out. I plan to update the Mate 3S, re-enter the Port assignments
>>> and hope that fixes the 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator surging

[Mac Lewis]

Do you hear audible changes in generator rpm?

I believe that generator has the RDC2 controller that you can log into with
Sitetech. There is a parameter that adjusts the sensitivity of the governor
(I can dig up the exact parameter later). A Kohler tech can adjust this and
I'm betting it will help, or at least rule out the generator control loop.

What's your altitude?



On Thu, Mar 19, 2020, 1:20 AM William Miller 
wrote:

> Mac:
>
>
>
> I know well what the AC input mode is.  This is the project that had the
> excessive THD on the voltage waveform (>26%f).  Here is a link
> 
> to the case study.
>
>
>
> As you can see, we resolved the problem by changing the AC input mode to
> Backup.  After recent rains started and generator run became necessary, the
> client started noticing flickering of lights and refrigerator operation was
> unreliable. We examined the E-Gauge data and could see rapid fluctuations
> in the generator output.  At one point we saw generator power range from
> 19kW to 12Kw and back in about 2 seconds.
>
>
>
> We isolated the generator into a load bank and it was rock solid.  We
> tried lots of things but when we reconnected the generator to the Radians
> and switched to the Radians to Generator input mode the surging stopped.
> Unfortunately, the Generator mode causes tons of THD, as noted in the case
> study.
>
>
>
> So we can’t use Generator because of THD, and we can’t use Backup (or
> Support or UPS) because in all these modes the generator surges.
>
>
>
> By the way, this is a newish Kohler 30RCL.  This should be a rock-solid
> match to a 24 kW Radian system.
>
>
>
> Like I said, we tried lots of things.  What stopped the surging was to
> open the AC input breaker to Inverter 1.  It did not help to open the input
> to Inverters 2 or 3.  I don’t have a clue as to why this is so…
>
>
>
> We tried taking Inverter 1 out of the system--moving inverter 2 up to
> Master and Inverter 3 to Slave 1.  The generator still surged. So if anyone
> started to think Inverter 1 was the problem, this was not confirmed.
>
>
>
> We are certain the neutral bonding is exactly as it should be.  We tripled
> checked this when chasing the THD problems.  We also adjusted input AC from
> 30 to 50 (per port), no improvement.
>
>
>
> I must say Outback has been very available to us as we try to figure these
> problems out.  I am fortunate that I am working with a senior engineer.  We
> are both currently stumped, but we are going to consult again tomorrow and
> see if any other ideas come to us.
>
>
>
> Thanks everyone for the input.  More soon.
>
>
>
> William Miller
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Mac Lewis
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 18, 2020 6:35 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator surging
>
>
>
> Hi William,
>
>
>
> Do you know what your AC input mode is?
>
> I'd try playing with this mode.
>
> If you have a generator, I'd try switching between "generator",
> "support".  You may quickly see a difference.  There is a small diode
> symbol that shows up on the Mate3s screen during generator charging.  I
> don't fully understand what that means but I know that it can affect how a
> generator works with the Radian.
>
>
>
> Also, you may try lowering the charging current and see how the generator
> responds.
>
>
>
> What type of generator?  Whats your AC input limits?
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 6:56 PM Jerry Shafer 
> wrote:
>
> Adjust the generator max output in the outback down and see what happens
>
> Jerry
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 18, 2020, 4:04 PM William Miller 
> wrote:
>
> Friends:
>
>
>
> I have a 24kW Radian system that is acting up.  The problem is when the
> generator is running, it surges.  Voltage and power go up and down.  We
> connected the generator to a load bank and there was no surging.  This
> makes me think the problem is in the Radian system.
>
>
>
> Has anyone else experienced this?
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance for any input.
>
>
>
> William Miller
>
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[RE-wrenches] Seeking Magnum MP-ODE outdoor enclosure

[Mick Abraham]

Hello, Mechanix~

I've just learned Magnum's rainproof box to protect a single inverter, cc &
mini panel is factory discontinued.
My usual wholesalers don't have any leftovers. I spotted one in Ohio but
the eBay seller doesn't want to ship it.

If anyone knows where I might find one of these in the rusty & dusty bin,
please contact me off list. Thanks in advance,

Mick Abraham, Proprietor
www.abrahamsolar.com

Landline: 970-731-4675
Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584
ᐧ
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator surging

[William Miller]

Mac:



I know well what the AC input mode is.  This is the project that had the
excessive THD on the voltage waveform (>26%f).  Here is a link

to the case study.



As you can see, we resolved the problem by changing the AC input mode to
Backup.  After recent rains started and generator run became necessary, the
client started noticing flickering of lights and refrigerator operation was
unreliable. We examined the E-Gauge data and could see rapid fluctuations
in the generator output.  At one point we saw generator power range from
19kW to 12Kw and back in about 2 seconds.



We isolated the generator into a load bank and it was rock solid.  We tried
lots of things but when we reconnected the generator to the Radians and
switched to the Radians to Generator input mode the surging stopped.
Unfortunately, the Generator mode causes tons of THD, as noted in the case
study.



So we can’t use Generator because of THD, and we can’t use Backup (or
Support or UPS) because in all these modes the generator surges.



By the way, this is a newish Kohler 30RCL.  This should be a rock-solid
match to a 24 kW Radian system.



Like I said, we tried lots of things.  What stopped the surging was to open
the AC input breaker to Inverter 1.  It did not help to open the input to
Inverters 2 or 3.  I don’t have a clue as to why this is so…



We tried taking Inverter 1 out of the system--moving inverter 2 up to
Master and Inverter 3 to Slave 1.  The generator still surged. So if anyone
started to think Inverter 1 was the problem, this was not confirmed.



We are certain the neutral bonding is exactly as it should be.  We tripled
checked this when chasing the THD problems.  We also adjusted input AC from
30 to 50 (per port), no improvement.



I must say Outback has been very available to us as we try to figure these
problems out.  I am fortunate that I am working with a senior engineer.  We
are both currently stumped, but we are going to consult again tomorrow and
see if any other ideas come to us.



Thanks everyone for the input.  More soon.



William Miller





*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
Behalf Of *Mac Lewis
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 18, 2020 6:35 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator surging



Hi William,



Do you know what your AC input mode is?

I'd try playing with this mode.

If you have a generator, I'd try switching between "generator", "support".
You may quickly see a difference.  There is a small diode symbol that shows
up on the Mate3s screen during generator charging.  I don't fully
understand what that means but I know that it can affect how a generator
works with the Radian.



Also, you may try lowering the charging current and see how the generator
responds.



What type of generator?  Whats your AC input limits?



On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 6:56 PM Jerry Shafer 
wrote:

Adjust the generator max output in the outback down and see what happens

Jerry



On Wed, Mar 18, 2020, 4:04 PM William Miller 
wrote:

Friends:



I have a 24kW Radian system that is acting up.  The problem is when the
generator is running, it surges.  Voltage and power go up and down.  We
connected the generator to a load bank and there was no surging.  This
makes me think the problem is in the Radian system.



Has anyone else experienced this?



Thanks in advance for any input.



William Miller

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-- 







Mac Lewis

"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." *-Sócrates*
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