Re: [RE-wrenches] Stand alone battery charger

[bruce]

Check out Quickcharge out of Oklahoma. I have one of their 100 amp chargers working in tandem with some VFXs. Good folks.Bruce Fiero-RMI"Energizing the Rogue Valley"4115 S Pacific HwyMedford, OR 97501  P: 541.535.3965F: 541.512.0061E: br...@willpowerelect.comW: Willpower Electric, LLC CCB 191852Oregon Electrical Contractor C681NABCEP Certified Solar (PV) Installer 031409-38DUNS 191470363 Energy Trust of Oregon Trade Ally Solar (PV) Installation & Energy Efficient Commercial Lighting Programs   **This email may contain information that is privileged, confidential, or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the addressee, or if it appears that you have received this email in error, please advise me immediately by reply email, keep the contents confidential, and immediately delete the message and any attachments from your system.  


 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Stand alone battery charger
From: Jason Szumlanski 
Date: Tue, April 21, 2020 9:32 am
To: Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar 
Cc: RE-wrenches 

I'm not sure I follow. I would disconnect the generator AC2 input from the existing quad XW system and move it to the external chargers. Or, I could just turn the charging off by software config in the XWs.If I were to buy four inverter/chargers to serve as "external" chargers for the battery (any brand, really) I would just connect the generator input to AC2 and the battery to the batt terminals of the four inverters. The AC1 input/output would have no connections. The inverter function would be turned off and the charger function turned on. Again, this would be an expensive solution. I'm sure there are some companies making high output DC chargers. I assume a 48V model will be able to go up to 60V charging output, which would be plenty for my 51V nominal system. On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 11:44 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar  wrote:4 xw's need the external relay contactors not the internals, Right? You will destroy the internals relays. If there was warranty still left, and there is not on 6048, you would need to scrap them for parts. Xw logs welded relay warnings and faults for warranty on all xw's.  Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060  On Tue, 21 Apr 2020 08:27:53 -0400, Jason Szumlanski  wrote:I actually need 400Adc at 51V nominal of total charge rate. I was hoping to use 100Adc chargers for redundancy, or some combination of 2-8 chargers to reach the needed current, assuming they can be synced up. I don't think the charging algorithm needs to be complicated. We are basically bulk charging the LiPOs to 80% with the battery BMS controlling the generator. The concept is to get to 80% sometime in the night and solar kicks in during the day to reach 100% using 2-stage charging from the XW charge controllers.   The problem I have is the quad XW6048s in the system run at a pretty good load typically... often over 50%. This is off-grid with generator backup. The transfer switches in the XW6048 are causing surges and brownouts when the switched loads are high, especially smart dimmers and televisions. I need seamless power for this client. My thought is to abandon the internal chargers in the XW6048s and just run loads off inverter power full-time. I would charge the batteries with external battery chargers. The tricky part is how to adjust the charge rate based on load, and also based on solar input. I need to limit the net charging current. Of course, I still need 400Adc of charging current, which I'm learning might be hard to find. I don't really want to buy four more XWs - that's a pretty expensive solution.    Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group  On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 4:26 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar  wrote:  I use the CSW 4048. It has a 50 amp charger. A good spare for clients. Get 2 of them. Repurpose an old Radian or XW well over 100A. XW+ is 140adc. Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar  "we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060  On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 14:21:14 -0400, Jason Szumlanski  wrote:  I'm looking for a standalone 51V nominal battery charger suitable for a LiPO battery with 2-stage charging and adjustable setpoints for max current and battery voltage. It would require dual chargers with 100A capacity (I want dual chargers for redundancy so I have at least 50% capacity if one goes bad). Ideally they would sync up so they change stages simultaneously, but I'm not sure if that's really important.    Who makes something like that?   Jason Szumlanski    ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance  List Address: RE-wrench

Re: [RE-wrenches] Stand alone battery charger

[Jason Szumlanski]

I'm not too concerned with multi-stage charging. I need to check with the
battery manufacturer, but I'm pretty sure they are not, either. The BMS is
set up to start the AGS at 20% SOC and charge to 80% SOC at which time the
BMS turns off the generator. So we are just talking about bulk charging
here. We rely on the XW MPPTs to get the battery up to 100% with solar
during the day and maintain the loads.

The battery capacity is currently such that one 20%-80% charge per night
occurs on almost every night. The solar capacity is ample. The battery
capacity is way too low. It's a long story, as these things often tend to
be. There is a complex set of requirements for me to increase charge rate,
reduce fuel usage, reduce generator run time (and wear/maintenance), and
provide flicker-free luxurious power to a demanding client.

Thanks, everyone for the input.

Jason




On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 12:45 PM RE Ellison  wrote:

> And also most battery chargers are not multi stage they’re big taper type
> chargers
>
> They don’t charge nearly as efficiently or as well as a three stage
> inverter charger
>
> Bob Ellison
>
> On Apr 21, 2020, at 12:32 PM, Jason Szumlanski <
> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>
> I'm not sure I follow. I would disconnect the generator AC2 input from the
> existing quad XW system and move it to the external chargers. Or, I could
> just turn the charging off by software config in the XWs.
>
> If I were to buy four inverter/chargers to serve as "external" chargers
> for the battery (any brand, really) I would just connect the generator
> input to AC2 and the battery to the batt terminals of the four inverters.
> The AC1 input/output would have no connections. The inverter function would
> be turned off and the charger function turned on.
>
> Again, this would be an expensive solution. I'm sure there are some
> companies making high output DC chargers. I assume a 48V model will be able
> to go up to 60V charging output, which would be plenty for my 51V nominal
> system.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 11:44 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar <
> offgridso...@sti.net> wrote:
>
>> 4 xw's need the external relay contactors not the internals, Right?
>>
>> You will destroy the internals relays. If there was warranty still left,
>> and there is not on 6048, you would need to scrap them for parts. Xw logs
>> welded relay warnings and faults for warranty on all xw's.
>>
>> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
>> "we go where powerlines don't"
>> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ 
>> 
>> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net 
>> text 209 813 0060*
>>
>> On Tue, 21 Apr 2020 08:27:53 -0400, Jason Szumlanski <
>> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>>
>> I actually need 400Adc at 51V nominal of total charge rate. I was hoping
>> to use 100Adc chargers for redundancy, or some combination of 2-8 chargers
>> to reach the needed current, assuming they can be synced up. I don't think
>> the charging algorithm needs to be complicated. We are basically bulk
>> charging the LiPOs to 80% with the battery BMS controlling the generator.
>> The concept is to get to 80% sometime in the night and solar kicks in
>> during the day to reach 100% using 2-stage charging from the XW charge
>> controllers.
>>
>> The problem I have is the quad XW6048s in the system run at a pretty good
>> load typically... often over 50%. This is off-grid with generator backup.
>> The transfer switches in the XW6048 are causing surges and brownouts when
>> the switched loads are high, especially smart dimmers and televisions. I
>> need seamless power for this client. My thought is to abandon the internal
>> chargers in the XW6048s and just run loads off inverter power full-time. I
>> would charge the batteries with external battery chargers. The tricky part
>> is how to adjust the charge rate based on load, and also based on solar
>> input. I need to limit the net charging current. Of course, I still need
>> 400Adc of charging current, which I'm learning might be hard to find. I
>> don't really want to buy four more XWs - that's a pretty expensive
>> solution.
>>
>> Jason Szumlanski
>> Florida Solar Design Group
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 4:26 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar <
>> offgridso...@sti.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I use the CSW 4048. It has a 50 amp charger. A good spare for clients.
>>> Get 2 of them. Repurpose an old Radian or XW well over 100A. XW+ is 140adc.
>>>
>>> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar*
>>>
>>> *"we go where powerlines don't"
>>> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ 
>>> 
>>> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net 
>>> text 209 813 0060*
>>>
>>> On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 14:21:14 -0400, Jason Szumlanski <
>>> ja

Re: [RE-wrenches] Stand alone battery charger

[Jason Szumlanski]

Thanks, Steve. Parallel operation might be tricky, but I'm sure they have
dealt with this before. I'll check it out.






On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 12:45 PM Steve Higgins  wrote:

> Try these guys... Heard Good things.   Not sure how they would work with 4
> in parallel on the same battery bank.
>
> https://quickcharge.com/selct-a-charge-stationary-chargers.html
> 
>
>
>
>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steve Higgins ⋅ Technical Services Manager
> t +1.902.597.4020  m +1.206.790.5840
> f +1.902.597.8447  e st...@surrette.com
> <#m_3535228063810942375_SignatureSanitizer_SafeHtmlFilter_>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
> --
> *Become a Certified PV Professional. Register for* *NABCEP CEC 2020*
> 
>  *using promo code* *20RBE*
> 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Stand alone battery charger

[Jason Szumlanski]

The issue is during switching only. During inverter operation everything is
silky smooth. During generator operation things are mostly smooth, but
large loads that come on or off during heavy charging can cause some
surging, but that is more a function of a junky generator (which was just
replaced with a better unit).

So the natural conclusion by the client is let's just run on
battery/inverter all the time. And it does make sense. And it's his money.




*Jason Szumlanski*
Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
(239) 491-8010 (239) 410-4985
www.FloridaSolarDesignGroup.com

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Youtube]




On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 2:29 PM Ray  wrote:

> Are you sure its just the transfer switching causing problems?  I've seen
> quite a bit of lights dimming, flickering, and strangeness with XW
> inverters ( and many others) just in normal operation.  Certain LEDs are
> particularly sensitive, just another appliance coming on can cause
> noticeable flicker that bothers some clients.  Our solution was to try
> different brands of LEDs till we found ones that had less trouble.  I
> recall the Phillips ones being good, but you would have to test a few to
> see.
>
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> 303 505-8760
>
> On 4/21/20 12:26 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
>
> I have not looked into that, but the problem also exists transferring from
> inverter to generator. The owner wants "clean" power all the time, and just
> keeping him on inverter power all the time would be a solution.
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 9:35 AM Tump  wrote:
>
>> Have you shortened the transfer time from gen to inv, voltage “cut
>> out"acceptance of the gen in power instead of their 90Vac to say 110V/L ?
>> Raising the output voltage on the 6848s & gen set for VD/voltage sag issues
>> under heavy loading? Watch this as sometimes under heavy loading it will
>> cut the AC input. I use the config tool to address this kind of issue,
>> gives me a bit more control.
>>  I have a client that has a large external battery charger similar to a
>> fork truck unit that he alleges causes "dirty power" while the genset is
>> supplying power to the charger, w/o charging thru the inverters.
>> Unfortunately w/ the virus I have yet to confirm.
>>
>> On Apr 21, 2020, at 8:27 AM, Jason Szumlanski <
>> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>>
>> I actually need 400Adc at 51V nominal of total charge rate. I was hoping
>> to use 100Adc chargers for redundancy, or some combination of 2-8 chargers
>> to reach the needed current, assuming they can be synced up. I don't think
>> the charging algorithm needs to be complicated. We are basically bulk
>> charging the LiPOs to 80% with the battery BMS controlling the generator.
>> The concept is to get to 80% sometime in the night and solar kicks in
>> during the day to reach 100% using 2-stage charging from the XW charge
>> controllers.
>>
>> The problem I have is the quad XW6048s in the system run at a pretty good
>> load typically... often over 50%. This is off-grid with generator backup.
>> The transfer switches in the XW6048 are causing surges and brownouts when
>> the switched loads are high, especially smart dimmers and televisions. I
>> need seamless power for this client. My thought is to abandon the internal
>> chargers in the XW6048s and just run loads off inverter power full-time. I
>> would charge the batteries with external battery chargers. The tricky part
>> is how to adjust the charge rate based on load, and also based on solar
>> input. I need to limit the net charging current. Of course, I still need
>> 400Adc of charging current, which I'm learning might be hard to find. I
>> don't really want to buy four more XWs - that's a pretty expensive
>> solution.
>>
>> Jason Szumlanski
>> Florida Solar Design Group
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 4:26 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar <
>> offgridso...@sti.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I use the CSW 4048. It has a 50 amp charger. A good spare for clients.
>>> Get 2 of them. Repurpose an old Radian or XW well over 100A. XW+ is 140adc.
>>>
>>> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar*
>>>
>>> *"we go 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Stand alone battery charger

[Ray]

Are you sure its just the transfer switching causing problems? I've seen 
quite a bit of lights dimming, flickering, and strangeness with XW 
inverters ( and many others) just in normal operation.  Certain LEDs are 
particularly sensitive, just another appliance coming on can cause 
noticeable flicker that bothers some clients.  Our solution was to try 
different brands of LEDs till we found ones that had less trouble.  I 
recall the Phillips ones being good, but you would have to test a few to 
see.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 4/21/20 12:26 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
I have not looked into that, but the problem also exists 
transferring from inverter to generator. The owner wants "clean" power 
all the time, and just keeping him on inverter power all the time 
would be a solution.


*

*


On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 9:35 AM Tump > wrote:


Have you shortened the transfer time from gen to inv, voltage “cut
out"acceptance of the gen in power instead of their 90Vac to say
110V/L ? Raising the output voltage on the 6848s & gen set for
VD/voltage sag issues under heavy loading? Watch this as sometimes
under heavy loading it will cut the AC input. I use the config
tool to address this kind of issue, gives me a bit more control.
 I have a client that has a large external battery charger similar
to a fork truck unit that he alleges causes "dirty power" while
the genset is supplying power to the charger, w/o charging thru
the inverters. Unfortunately w/ the virus I have yet to confirm.

On Apr 21, 2020, at 8:27 AM, Jason Szumlanski
mailto:ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com>> wrote:

I actually need 400Adc at 51V nominal of total charge rate. I was
hoping to use 100Adc chargers for redundancy, or some combination
of 2-8 chargers to reach the needed current, assuming they can be
synced up. I don't think the charging algorithm needs to be
complicated. We are basically bulk charging the LiPOs to 80% with
the battery BMS controlling the generator. The concept is to get
to 80% sometime in the night and solar kicks in during the day to
reach 100% using 2-stage charging from the XW charge controllers.

The problem I have is the quad XW6048s in the system run at a
pretty good load typically... often over 50%. This is off-grid
with generator backup. The transfer switches in the XW6048 are
causing surges and brownouts when the switched loads are high,
especially smart dimmers and televisions. I need seamless power
for this client. My thought is to abandon the internal chargers
in the XW6048s and just run loads off inverter power full-time. I
would charge the batteries with external battery chargers. The
tricky part is how to adjust the charge rate based on load, and
also based on solar input. I need to limit the net charging
current. Of course, I still need 400Adc of charging current,
which I'm learning might be hard to find. I don't really want to
buy four more XWs - that's a pretty expensive solution.

Jason Szumlanski
Florida Solar Design Group


On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 4:26 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
mailto:offgridso...@sti.net>> wrote:

I use the CSW 4048. It has a 50 amp charger. A good spare for
clients. Get 2 of them. Repurpose an old Radian or XW well
over 100A. XW+ is 140adc.

*Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar*

*"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/


e-mail offgridso...@sti.net 
text 209 813 0060*

On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 14:21:14 -0400, Jason Szumlanski
mailto:ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com>> wrote:


I'm looking for a standalone 51V nominal battery charger
suitable for a LiPO battery with 2-stage charging and
adjustable setpoints for max current and battery voltage. It
would require dual chargers with 100A capacity (I want dual
chargers for redundancy so I have at least 50% capacity if
one goes bad). Ideally they would sync up so they change
stages simultaneously, but I'm not sure if that's really
important.
Who makes something like that?
Jason Szumlanski

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Stand alone battery charger

[Steve Higgins]

Try these guys... Heard Good things.   Not sure how they would work with 4
in parallel on the same battery bank.

https://quickcharge.com/selct-a-charge-stationary-chargers.html


 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Steve Higgins ⋅ Technical Services Manager
t +1.902.597.4020  m +1.206.790.5840
f +1.902.597.8447  e st...@surrette.com
<#SignatureSanitizer_SafeHtmlFilter_> 
 






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On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 9:44 AM RE Ellison  wrote:

> Maybe somebody’s already got this thought in here I didn’t look that
> in-depth
>
> Used to be a good suggestion was to get a couple magnums or heart
> interface inverters and use them strictly as a charger not an inverter
>
> So the inverters you have can keep inverting the generator would feed the
> other inverters that are used strictly as chargers so the transfer switch
> does not function and you don’t get that instantaneous change when it
> crosses over with the transfer switch
>
> Another advantages is if you have a problem you have inverters on site
> that you could wire over to to keep things going
>
> Just a thought,
> Bob Ellison
>
> On Apr 21, 2020, at 12:32 PM, Jason Szumlanski <
> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>
> I'm not sure I follow. I would disconnect the generator AC2 input from the
> existing quad XW system and move it to the external chargers. Or, I could
> just turn the charging off by software config in the XWs.
>
> If I were to buy four inverter/chargers to serve as "external" chargers
> for the battery (any brand, really) I would just connect the generator
> input to AC2 and the battery to the batt terminals of the four inverters.
> The AC1 input/output would have no connections. The inverter function would
> be turned off and the charger function turned on.
>
> Again, this would be an expensive solution. I'm sure there are some
> companies making high output DC chargers. I assume a 48V model will be able
> to go up to 60V charging output, which would be plenty for my 51V nominal
> system.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 11:44 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar <
> offgridso...@sti.net> wrote:
>
>> 4 xw's need the external relay contactors not the internals, Right?
>>
>> You will destroy the internals relays. If there was warranty still left,
>> and there is not on 6048, you would need to scrap them for parts. Xw logs
>> welded relay warnings and faults for warranty on all xw's.
>>
>> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
>> "we go where powerlines don't"
>> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ 
>> 
>> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net 
>> text 209 813 0060*
>>
>> On Tue, 21 Apr 2020 08:27:53 -0400, Jason Szumlanski <
>> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>>
>> I actually need 400Adc at 51V nominal of total charge rate. I was hoping
>> to use 100Adc chargers for redundancy, or some combination of 2-8 chargers
>> to reach the needed current, assuming they can be synced up. I don't think
>> the charging algorithm needs to be complicated. We are basically bulk
>> charging the LiPOs to 80% with the battery BMS controlling the generator.
>> The concept is to get to 80% sometime in the night and solar kicks in
>> during the day to reach 100% using 2-stage charging from the XW charge
>> controllers.
>>
>> The problem I have is the quad XW6048s in the system run at a pretty good
>> load typically... often over 50%. This is off-grid with generator backup.
>> The transfer switche

Re: [RE-wrenches] Stand alone battery charger

[RE Ellison]

And also most battery chargers are not multi stage they’re big taper type 
chargers

They don’t charge nearly as efficiently or as well as a three stage inverter 
charger

Bob Ellison

> On Apr 21, 2020, at 12:32 PM, Jason Szumlanski 
>  wrote:
> 
> I'm not sure I follow. I would disconnect the generator AC2 input from the 
> existing quad XW system and move it to the external chargers. Or, I could 
> just turn the charging off by software config in the XWs.
> 
> If I were to buy four inverter/chargers to serve as "external" chargers for 
> the battery (any brand, really) I would just connect the generator input to 
> AC2 and the battery to the batt terminals of the four inverters. The AC1 
> input/output would have no connections. The inverter function would be turned 
> off and the charger function turned on. 
> 
> Again, this would be an expensive solution. I'm sure there are some companies 
> making high output DC chargers. I assume a 48V model will be able to go up to 
> 60V charging output, which would be plenty for my 51V nominal system. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 11:44 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar 
>>  wrote:
>> 4 xw's need the external relay contactors not the internals, Right?
>> 
>> You will destroy the internals relays. If there was warranty still left, and 
>> there is not on 6048, you would need to scrap them for parts. Xw logs welded 
>> relay warnings and faults for warranty on all xw's.
>> 
>> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
>> "we go where powerlines don't"
>> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
>> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
>> text 209 813 0060
>>> On Tue, 21 Apr 2020 08:27:53 -0400, Jason Szumlanski 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I actually need 400Adc at 51V nominal of total charge rate. I was hoping to 
>>> use 100Adc chargers for redundancy, or some combination of 2-8 chargers to 
>>> reach the needed current, assuming they can be synced up. I don't think the 
>>> charging algorithm needs to be complicated. We are basically bulk charging 
>>> the LiPOs to 80% with the battery BMS controlling the generator. The 
>>> concept is to get to 80% sometime in the night and solar kicks in during 
>>> the day to reach 100% using 2-stage charging from the XW charge controllers.
>>>  
>>> The problem I have is the quad XW6048s in the system run at a pretty good 
>>> load typically... often over 50%. This is off-grid with generator backup. 
>>> The transfer switches in the XW6048 are causing surges and brownouts when 
>>> the switched loads are high, especially smart dimmers and televisions. I 
>>> need seamless power for this client. My thought is to abandon the internal 
>>> chargers in the XW6048s and just run loads off inverter power full-time. I 
>>> would charge the batteries with external battery chargers. The tricky part 
>>> is how to adjust the charge rate based on load, and also based on solar 
>>> input. I need to limit the net charging current. Of course, I still need 
>>> 400Adc of charging current, which I'm learning might be hard to find. I 
>>> don't really want to buy four more XWs - that's a pretty expensive 
>>> solution. 
>>>  
>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>> Florida Solar Design Group
>>>  
>>> 
 On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 4:26 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar 
  wrote:
 I use the CSW 4048. It has a 50 amp charger. A good spare for clients. Get 
 2 of them. Repurpose an old Radian or XW well over 100A. XW+ is 140adc.
 
 Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
 
 "we go where powerlines don't"
 http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
 e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
 text 209 813 0060
 On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 14:21:14 -0400, Jason Szumlanski 
  wrote:
 
 I'm looking for a standalone 51V nominal battery charger suitable for a 
 LiPO battery with 2-stage charging and adjustable setpoints for max 
 current and battery voltage. It would require dual chargers with 100A 
 capacity (I want dual chargers for redundancy so I have at least 50% 
 capacity if one goes bad). Ideally they would sync up so they change 
 stages simultaneously, but I'm not sure if that's really important.
  
 Who makes something like that?
  
 Jason Szumlanski
  
  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Stand alone battery charger

[RE Ellison]

Maybe somebody’s already got this thought in here I didn’t look that in-depth

Used to be a good suggestion was to get a couple magnums or heart interface 
inverters and use them strictly as a charger not an inverter

So the inverters you have can keep inverting the generator would feed the other 
inverters that are used strictly as chargers so the transfer switch does not 
function and you don’t get that instantaneous change when it crosses over with 
the transfer switch

Another advantages is if you have a problem you have inverters on site that you 
could wire over to to keep things going

Just a thought,
Bob Ellison

> On Apr 21, 2020, at 12:32 PM, Jason Szumlanski 
>  wrote:
> 
> I'm not sure I follow. I would disconnect the generator AC2 input from the 
> existing quad XW system and move it to the external chargers. Or, I could 
> just turn the charging off by software config in the XWs.
> 
> If I were to buy four inverter/chargers to serve as "external" chargers for 
> the battery (any brand, really) I would just connect the generator input to 
> AC2 and the battery to the batt terminals of the four inverters. The AC1 
> input/output would have no connections. The inverter function would be turned 
> off and the charger function turned on. 
> 
> Again, this would be an expensive solution. I'm sure there are some companies 
> making high output DC chargers. I assume a 48V model will be able to go up to 
> 60V charging output, which would be plenty for my 51V nominal system. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 11:44 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar 
>>  wrote:
>> 4 xw's need the external relay contactors not the internals, Right?
>> 
>> You will destroy the internals relays. If there was warranty still left, and 
>> there is not on 6048, you would need to scrap them for parts. Xw logs welded 
>> relay warnings and faults for warranty on all xw's.
>> 
>> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
>> "we go where powerlines don't"
>> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
>> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
>> text 209 813 0060
>>> On Tue, 21 Apr 2020 08:27:53 -0400, Jason Szumlanski 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I actually need 400Adc at 51V nominal of total charge rate. I was hoping to 
>>> use 100Adc chargers for redundancy, or some combination of 2-8 chargers to 
>>> reach the needed current, assuming they can be synced up. I don't think the 
>>> charging algorithm needs to be complicated. We are basically bulk charging 
>>> the LiPOs to 80% with the battery BMS controlling the generator. The 
>>> concept is to get to 80% sometime in the night and solar kicks in during 
>>> the day to reach 100% using 2-stage charging from the XW charge controllers.
>>>  
>>> The problem I have is the quad XW6048s in the system run at a pretty good 
>>> load typically... often over 50%. This is off-grid with generator backup. 
>>> The transfer switches in the XW6048 are causing surges and brownouts when 
>>> the switched loads are high, especially smart dimmers and televisions. I 
>>> need seamless power for this client. My thought is to abandon the internal 
>>> chargers in the XW6048s and just run loads off inverter power full-time. I 
>>> would charge the batteries with external battery chargers. The tricky part 
>>> is how to adjust the charge rate based on load, and also based on solar 
>>> input. I need to limit the net charging current. Of course, I still need 
>>> 400Adc of charging current, which I'm learning might be hard to find. I 
>>> don't really want to buy four more XWs - that's a pretty expensive 
>>> solution. 
>>>  
>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>> Florida Solar Design Group
>>>  
>>> 
 On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 4:26 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar 
  wrote:
 I use the CSW 4048. It has a 50 amp charger. A good spare for clients. Get 
 2 of them. Repurpose an old Radian or XW well over 100A. XW+ is 140adc.
 
 Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
 
 "we go where powerlines don't"
 http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
 e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
 text 209 813 0060
 On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 14:21:14 -0400, Jason Szumlanski 
  wrote:
 
 I'm looking for a standalone 51V nominal battery charger suitable for a 
 LiPO battery with 2-stage charging and adjustable setpoints for max 
 current and battery voltage. It would require dual chargers with 100A 
 capacity (I want dual chargers for redundancy so I have at least 50% 
 capacity if one goes bad). Ideally they would sync up so they change 
 stages simultaneously, but I'm not sure if that's really important.
  
 Who makes something like that?
  
 Jason Szumlanski
  
  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Stand alone battery charger

[Jerry Shafer]

Wrenches, Jason
I have done this when l dont want tranfer switch operation but you are
looking for 400 amps at 51vdc that around 20 kW of charger. l used golf
cart chargers but you may want to consider a forklift charger, they are
quick and basic, the BMS/U will manage the charge rates anyway. I would run
everything through a shunt for monitoring either through the box or via an
eguage and DC shunts. You should be able to let the inverter turn on genny
but programmed as a DC charger not AC at least with Outback we can do that.
Fun times
Jerry
NABCEP PV Inspector

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 5:28 AM Jason Szumlanski <
ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:

> I actually need 400Adc at 51V nominal of total charge rate. I was hoping
> to use 100Adc chargers for redundancy, or some combination of 2-8 chargers
> to reach the needed current, assuming they can be synced up. I don't think
> the charging algorithm needs to be complicated. We are basically bulk
> charging the LiPOs to 80% with the battery BMS controlling the generator.
> The concept is to get to 80% sometime in the night and solar kicks in
> during the day to reach 100% using 2-stage charging from the XW charge
> controllers.
>
> The problem I have is the quad XW6048s in the system run at a pretty good
> load typically... often over 50%. This is off-grid with generator backup.
> The transfer switches in the XW6048 are causing surges and brownouts when
> the switched loads are high, especially smart dimmers and televisions. I
> need seamless power for this client. My thought is to abandon the internal
> chargers in the XW6048s and just run loads off inverter power full-time. I
> would charge the batteries with external battery chargers. The tricky part
> is how to adjust the charge rate based on load, and also based on solar
> input. I need to limit the net charging current. Of course, I still need
> 400Adc of charging current, which I'm learning might be hard to find. I
> don't really want to buy four more XWs - that's a pretty expensive
> solution.
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Florida Solar Design Group
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 4:26 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar <
> offgridso...@sti.net> wrote:
>
>> I use the CSW 4048. It has a 50 amp charger. A good spare for clients.
>> Get 2 of them. Repurpose an old Radian or XW well over 100A. XW+ is 140adc.
>>
>> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar*
>>
>> *"we go where powerlines don't"
>> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ 
>> 
>> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net 
>> text 209 813 0060*
>>
>> On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 14:21:14 -0400, Jason Szumlanski <
>> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'm looking for a standalone 51V nominal battery charger suitable for a
>> LiPO battery with 2-stage charging and adjustable setpoints for max current
>> and battery voltage. It would require dual chargers with 100A capacity (I
>> want dual chargers for redundancy so I have at least 50% capacity if one
>> goes bad). Ideally they would sync up so they change stages simultaneously,
>> but I'm not sure if that's really important.
>>
>> Who makes something like that?
>>
>> Jason Szumlanski
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Stand alone battery charger

[Jason Szumlanski]

I'm not sure I follow. I would disconnect the generator AC2 input from the
existing quad XW system and move it to the external chargers. Or, I could
just turn the charging off by software config in the XWs.

If I were to buy four inverter/chargers to serve as "external" chargers for
the battery (any brand, really) I would just connect the generator input to
AC2 and the battery to the batt terminals of the four inverters. The AC1
input/output would have no connections. The inverter function would be
turned off and the charger function turned on.

Again, this would be an expensive solution. I'm sure there are some
companies making high output DC chargers. I assume a 48V model will be able
to go up to 60V charging output, which would be plenty for my 51V nominal
system.





On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 11:44 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar <
offgridso...@sti.net> wrote:

> 4 xw's need the external relay contactors not the internals, Right?
>
> You will destroy the internals relays. If there was warranty still left,
> and there is not on 6048, you would need to scrap them for parts. Xw logs
> welded relay warnings and faults for warranty on all xw's.
>
> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> "we go where powerlines don't"
> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ 
> 
> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net 
> text 209 813 0060*
>
> On Tue, 21 Apr 2020 08:27:53 -0400, Jason Szumlanski <
> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>
> I actually need 400Adc at 51V nominal of total charge rate. I was hoping
> to use 100Adc chargers for redundancy, or some combination of 2-8 chargers
> to reach the needed current, assuming they can be synced up. I don't think
> the charging algorithm needs to be complicated. We are basically bulk
> charging the LiPOs to 80% with the battery BMS controlling the generator.
> The concept is to get to 80% sometime in the night and solar kicks in
> during the day to reach 100% using 2-stage charging from the XW charge
> controllers.
>
> The problem I have is the quad XW6048s in the system run at a pretty good
> load typically... often over 50%. This is off-grid with generator backup.
> The transfer switches in the XW6048 are causing surges and brownouts when
> the switched loads are high, especially smart dimmers and televisions. I
> need seamless power for this client. My thought is to abandon the internal
> chargers in the XW6048s and just run loads off inverter power full-time. I
> would charge the batteries with external battery chargers. The tricky part
> is how to adjust the charge rate based on load, and also based on solar
> input. I need to limit the net charging current. Of course, I still need
> 400Adc of charging current, which I'm learning might be hard to find. I
> don't really want to buy four more XWs - that's a pretty expensive
> solution.
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Florida Solar Design Group
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 4:26 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar <
> offgridso...@sti.net> wrote:
>
>> I use the CSW 4048. It has a 50 amp charger. A good spare for clients.
>> Get 2 of them. Repurpose an old Radian or XW well over 100A. XW+ is 140adc.
>>
>> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar*
>>
>> *"we go where powerlines don't"
>> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ 
>> 
>> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net 
>> text 209 813 0060*
>>
>> On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 14:21:14 -0400, Jason Szumlanski <
>> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'm looking for a standalone 51V nominal battery charger suitable for a
>> LiPO battery with 2-stage charging and adjustable setpoints for max current
>> and battery voltage. It would require dual chargers with 100A capacity (I
>> want dual chargers for redundancy so I have at least 50% capacity if one
>> goes bad). Ideally they would sync up so they change stages simultaneously,
>> but I'm not sure if that's really important.
>>
>> Who makes something like that?
>>
>> Jason Szumlanski
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Stand alone battery charger

[Jason Szumlanski]

I have not looked into that, but the problem also exists transferring from
inverter to generator. The owner wants "clean" power all the time, and just
keeping him on inverter power all the time would be a solution.




On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 9:35 AM Tump  wrote:

> Have you shortened the transfer time from gen to inv, voltage “cut
> out"acceptance of the gen in power instead of their 90Vac to say 110V/L ?
> Raising the output voltage on the 6848s & gen set for VD/voltage sag issues
> under heavy loading? Watch this as sometimes under heavy loading it will
> cut the AC input. I use the config tool to address this kind of issue,
> gives me a bit more control.
>  I have a client that has a large external battery charger similar to a
> fork truck unit that he alleges causes "dirty power" while the genset is
> supplying power to the charger, w/o charging thru the inverters.
> Unfortunately w/ the virus I have yet to confirm.
>
> On Apr 21, 2020, at 8:27 AM, Jason Szumlanski <
> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>
> I actually need 400Adc at 51V nominal of total charge rate. I was hoping
> to use 100Adc chargers for redundancy, or some combination of 2-8 chargers
> to reach the needed current, assuming they can be synced up. I don't think
> the charging algorithm needs to be complicated. We are basically bulk
> charging the LiPOs to 80% with the battery BMS controlling the generator.
> The concept is to get to 80% sometime in the night and solar kicks in
> during the day to reach 100% using 2-stage charging from the XW charge
> controllers.
>
> The problem I have is the quad XW6048s in the system run at a pretty good
> load typically... often over 50%. This is off-grid with generator backup.
> The transfer switches in the XW6048 are causing surges and brownouts when
> the switched loads are high, especially smart dimmers and televisions. I
> need seamless power for this client. My thought is to abandon the internal
> chargers in the XW6048s and just run loads off inverter power full-time. I
> would charge the batteries with external battery chargers. The tricky part
> is how to adjust the charge rate based on load, and also based on solar
> input. I need to limit the net charging current. Of course, I still need
> 400Adc of charging current, which I'm learning might be hard to find. I
> don't really want to buy four more XWs - that's a pretty expensive
> solution.
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Florida Solar Design Group
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 4:26 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar <
> offgridso...@sti.net> wrote:
>
>> I use the CSW 4048. It has a 50 amp charger. A good spare for clients.
>> Get 2 of them. Repurpose an old Radian or XW well over 100A. XW+ is 140adc.
>>
>> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar*
>>
>> *"we go where powerlines don't"
>> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ 
>> 
>> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net 
>> text 209 813 0060*
>>
>> On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 14:21:14 -0400, Jason Szumlanski <
>> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'm looking for a standalone 51V nominal battery charger suitable for a
>> LiPO battery with 2-stage charging and adjustable setpoints for max current
>> and battery voltage. It would require dual chargers with 100A capacity (I
>> want dual chargers for redundancy so I have at least 50% capacity if one
>> goes bad). Ideally they would sync up so they change stages simultaneously,
>> but I'm not sure if that's really important.
>>
>> Who makes something like that?
>>
>> Jason Szumlanski
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Stand alone battery charger

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

4 xw's need the external relay contactors not the internals, Right?


You will destroy the internals relays. If there was warranty still left,
and there is not on 6048, you would need to scrap them for parts. Xw logs
welded relay warnings and faults for warranty on all xw's.  
Dave Angelini
Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines
don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [1]
e-mail offgridso...@sti.net
[2]
text 209 813 0060

On Tue, 21 Apr 2020 08:27:53 -0400, Jason Szumlanski
wrote:I actually need 400Adc at 51V nominal of total charge rate. I
was hoping to use 100Adc chargers for redundancy, or some combination of
2-8 chargers to reach the needed current, assuming they can be synced up. I
don't think the charging algorithm needs to be complicated. We are
basically bulk charging the LiPOs to 80% with the battery BMS controlling
the generator. The concept is to get to 80% sometime in the night and solar
kicks in during the day to reach 100% using 2-stage charging from the XW
charge controllers.   The problem I have is the quad XW6048s in the system
run at a pretty good load typically... often over 50%. This is off-grid
with generator backup. The transfer switches in the XW6048 are causing
surges and brownouts when the switched loads are high, especially smart
dimmers and televisions. I need seamless power for this client. My thought
is to abandon the internal chargers in the XW6048s and just run loads off
inverter power full-time. I would charge the batteries with external
battery chargers. The tricky part is how to adjust the charge rate based on
load, and also based on solar input. I need to limit the net charging
current. Of course, I still need 400Adc of charging current, which I'm
learning might be hard to find. I don't really want to buy four more XWs -
that's a pretty expensive solution.Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar
Design Group
  On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 4:26 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid
Solar  wrote:  

I use the CSW 4048. It has a 50 amp charger. A good spare
for clients. Get 2 of them. Repurpose an old Radian or XW well over 100A.
XW+ is 140adc. 

DAVE ANGELINI OFFGRID SOLAR  
"we go where powerlines
don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [4]
e-mail offgridso...@sti.net
[5]
text 209 813 0060

On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 14:21:14 -0400, Jason Szumlanski
wrote:  I'm looking for a standalone 51V nominal battery charger suitable
for a LiPO battery with 2-stage charging and adjustable setpoints for max
current and battery voltage. It would require dual chargers with 100A
capacity (I want dual chargers for redundancy so I have at least 50%
capacity if one goes bad). Ideally they would sync up so they change stages
simultaneously, but I'm not sure if that's really important.Who makes
something like that?   Jason Szumlanski   
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Rectifier

[Ray]

I also don't understand requiring 100 amps for an auxillary dwelling. 
230.79 requires a minimum service of 100 amps for a single family 
dwelling, but that is a service requirement, not a requirement for a 
feeder to another building.  Even 230.79(D) says all other buildings 
only require a 60 amp service.    I think we'd all like to know where 
the AHJ is getting these requirements.  Is it local amendments that were 
added, or is it just a possible misinterpretation?


I suggest possibly reviewing with the AHJ the article 100 definitions of 
Service (connection to the Utility) and Feeder. Article 230 covers 
Services and does Not apply to feeders.   The ADU would only need 100 
amps if it had its own service meter.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 4/21/20 10:05 AM, drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org wrote:


The voltage drop recommendations in the code are actually not 
requirements, but recommendations. Some locations make them 
requirements, but if the AHJ is following the NEC without amendment, 
the 2% and 3% recommended drops are only recommendations.


---


On 2020-04-20 10:56, Mac Lewis wrote:

This is an example of where  some code requirements bump up against 
logic.  I believe the AC voltage will be quite usable at the 
site, just not for code requirements of the AHJ, and it may get 
pretty low during high usage times.  They make the electrician size 
it for 100A minimum for an ADU, even though the loads are pretty 
minimal, and then require <5% VD from the main service entrance.  
That is the requirement for the certificate of occupancy.
  Luckily, off-grid buildings don't have these requirements at all.  
I'm going to size it as an off-grid and probably tie it in at some 
point in the future.

Thanks for the input.

On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 10:20 AM 
> wrote:


We had a similar situation, and are now feeding a battery bank
with a pair of 48 V Iota chargers. Iota can run on very low
voltages. We have one Iota on each leg of the the 120/240 split
phase to balance the load. It works.

---


On 2020-04-18 21:25, Ray wrote:

When doing the volt drop calculation, be sure to correct for
temperature, per the note after table 8, chapter 9 of the
NEC.  The table values default at 167 deg F (75 C).  An
underground cable will be operating closer to earth
temperature.   When I run volt drop for a 4/0 copper cable at
60 deg F, I'm seeing that you could go over 60 amps and
maintain a volt drop of 3%.

Not sure what the requirements for the building are, but that
exceeds most of my off grid systems.  60+ amps at a final
voltage of 232 v is almost 14kW. Is there air conditioning? 
What are the calculated loads for this building?  Is the
inspector actually calling this a problem?

I would do a proof of concept: turn every light on in the
place, along with some typical appliances (hair dryer,
microwave) hit a circular saw to really make the point, with
a DMM plugged in.  I found long ago that actual measured volt
drop was not as bad as Chapter 9 first predicts.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 4/18/20 3:41 PM, Darryl Thayer wrote:

Hi Mac, There are a few questions like is it Al or Cu
wire, What makes it unusable?
for Voltage drop, I use Vd=2KIL/CMA for your case the
unknown is the current.  The installation of an inverter
with grid support.  Many inverters have this,  you want a
multimode inverter such as a Schneider, Outback, SolArk
and I could name at least 4 more.  A normal house will
run on 30 amps.  So assume 30 amps,
Vd=2x21.6x30x1100/211600 =6.7 volts
So if the main house is at 240 Volts the remote house is
at 233 Volts.  The multimode inverter could be set at
grid support beyond 30 Amps.  For higher house loads the
inverter can support up to 30 to 50 amps additional.
(SolArk is 50 amp) I would add a balancing transformer at
the end of the line to make the 120 loads balance.  (an
Autotransformer) such that  120 volts loads are balanced
and the load is shared between 240-Volt conductors. 
Based on my customers' experiences I would use AGM LA
batteries, as I expect low usage of the battery and quick
recharge, but that is the customer's choice.  I had one
customer that had 10 years on the float-AGM battery set.

On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 8:15 AM Mac Lewis
mailto:maclew...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi wrenches,
I've got a architect client with a sub-optimal power
situation on one of the projects he is working on. 
I'm running 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Rectifier

[drake . chamberlin]

The voltage drop recommendations in the code are actually not
requirements, but recommendations. Some locations make them
requirements, but if the AHJ is following the NEC without amendment, the
2% and 3% recommended drops are only recommendations. 


---

On 2020-04-20 10:56, Mac Lewis wrote:

This is an example of where  some code requirements bump up against logic.  I believe the AC voltage will be quite usable at the site, just not for code requirements of the AHJ, and it may get pretty low during high usage times.  They make the electrician size it for 100A minimum for an ADU, even though the loads are pretty minimal, and then require <5% VD from the main service entrance.  That is the requirement for the certificate of occupancy.   

Luckily, off-grid buildings don't have these requirements at all.  I'm going to size it as an off-grid and probably tie it in at some point in the future. 

Thanks for the input. 

On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 10:20 AM  wrote: 


We had a similar situation, and are now feeding a battery bank with a pair of 
48 V Iota chargers. Iota can run on very low voltages. We have one Iota on each 
leg of the the 120/240 split phase to balance the load. It works.

---

On 2020-04-18 21:25, Ray wrote: 

When doing the volt drop calculation, be sure to correct for temperature, per the note after table 8, chapter 9 of the NEC.  The table values default at 167 deg F (75 C).  An underground cable will be operating closer to earth temperature.   When I run volt drop for a 4/0 copper cable at 60 deg F, I'm seeing that you could go over 60 amps and maintain a volt drop of 3%.  

Not sure what the requirements for the building are, but that exceeds most of my off grid systems.  60+ amps at a final voltage of 232 v is almost 14kW. Is there air conditioning?  What are the calculated loads for this building?  Is the inspector actually calling this a problem?  

I would do a proof of concept: turn every light on in the place, along with some typical appliances (hair dryer, microwave) hit a circular saw to really make the point, with a DMM plugged in.  I found long ago that actual measured volt drop was not as bad as Chapter 9 first predicts. 


Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 4/18/20 3:41 PM, Darryl Thayer wrote: 

Hi Mac, There are a few questions like is it Al or Cu wire, What makes it unusable?   
for Voltage drop, I use Vd=2KIL/CMA for your case the unknown is the current.  The installation of an inverter with grid support.  Many inverters have this,  you want a multimode inverter such as a Schneider, Outback, SolArk and I could name at least 4 more.  A normal house will run on 30 amps.  So assume 30 amps, Vd=2x21.6x30x1100/211600 =6.7 volts 
So if the main house is at 240 Volts the remote house is at 233 Volts.  The multimode inverter could be set at grid support beyond 30 Amps.  For higher house loads the inverter can support up to 30 to 50 amps additional.  (SolArk is 50 amp) I would add a balancing transformer at the end of the line to make the 120 loads balance.  (an Autotransformer) such that  120 volts loads are balanced and the load is shared between 240-Volt conductors.  Based on my customers' experiences I would use AGM LA batteries, as I expect low usage of the battery and quick recharge, but that is the customer's choice.  I had one customer that had 10 years on the float-AGM battery set.  

On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 8:15 AM Mac Lewis  wrote: 
Hi wrenches, 

I've got a architect client with a sub-optimal power situation on one of the projects he is working on.  I'm running through a couple of scenarios that may work.  Its a ADU (accessory dwelling unit) that is about 1100' from power.  The farmer had taken it upon himself to bury some 4/0 a few years ago to run power out there.  Voltage drop is the big issue and its not going to pass the AHJ inspection.  We could just ditch the grid and go off-grid, but it seems like a shame to not tap into the grid resource.  Instead of dealing with the voltage drop, I was thinking it may make sense to rectify that low AC voltage input and parallel a smallish battery bank (size is yet to be determined), then use an off-grid inverter to serve the loads at good voltage. 

I am looking for feedback on this concept.  What do you think? 

Also, are there any recommendations for good quality rectifiers with wide input voltage window?   

Thanks in advance for your help 


--

Mac Lewis

"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Stand alone battery charger

[Tump]

Have you shortened the transfer time from gen to inv, voltage “cut 
out"acceptance of the gen in power instead of their 90Vac to say 110V/L ? 
Raising the output voltage on the 6848s & gen set for VD/voltage sag issues 
under heavy loading? Watch this as sometimes under heavy loading it will cut 
the AC input. I use the config tool to address this kind of issue, gives me a 
bit more control. 
 I have a client that has a large external battery charger similar to a fork 
truck unit that he alleges causes "dirty power" while the genset is supplying 
power to the charger, w/o charging thru the inverters. Unfortunately w/ the 
virus I have yet to confirm.
> On Apr 21, 2020, at 8:27 AM, Jason Szumlanski 
>  wrote:
> 
> I actually need 400Adc at 51V nominal of total charge rate. I was hoping to 
> use 100Adc chargers for redundancy, or some combination of 2-8 chargers to 
> reach the needed current, assuming they can be synced up. I don't think the 
> charging algorithm needs to be complicated. We are basically bulk charging 
> the LiPOs to 80% with the battery BMS controlling the generator. The concept 
> is to get to 80% sometime in the night and solar kicks in during the day to 
> reach 100% using 2-stage charging from the XW charge controllers.
> 
> The problem I have is the quad XW6048s in the system run at a pretty good 
> load typically... often over 50%. This is off-grid with generator backup. The 
> transfer switches in the XW6048 are causing surges and brownouts when the 
> switched loads are high, especially smart dimmers and televisions. I need 
> seamless power for this client. My thought is to abandon the internal 
> chargers in the XW6048s and just run loads off inverter power full-time. I 
> would charge the batteries with external battery chargers. The tricky part is 
> how to adjust the charge rate based on load, and also based on solar input. I 
> need to limit the net charging current. Of course, I still need 400Adc of 
> charging current, which I'm learning might be hard to find. I don't really 
> want to buy four more XWs - that's a pretty expensive solution. 
> 
> Jason Szumlanski
> Florida Solar Design Group
> 
> 
> On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 4:26 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar 
> mailto:offgridso...@sti.net>> wrote:
> I use the CSW 4048. It has a 50 amp charger. A good spare for clients. Get 2 
> of them. Repurpose an old Radian or XW well over 100A. XW+ is 140adc.
> 
> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> 
> "we go where powerlines don't"
> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ 
> 
> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net 
> text 209 813 0060
> On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 14:21:14 -0400, Jason Szumlanski 
>  > wrote:
> 
>> I'm looking for a standalone 51V nominal battery charger suitable for a LiPO 
>> battery with 2-stage charging and adjustable setpoints for max current and 
>> battery voltage. It would require dual chargers with 100A capacity (I want 
>> dual chargers for redundancy so I have at least 50% capacity if one goes 
>> bad). Ideally they would sync up so they change stages simultaneously, but 
>> I'm not sure if that's really important.
>>  
>> Who makes something like that?
>>  
>> Jason Szumlanski
>>  
>>  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Stand alone battery charger

[Jason Szumlanski]

I actually need 400Adc at 51V nominal of total charge rate. I was hoping to
use 100Adc chargers for redundancy, or some combination of 2-8 chargers to
reach the needed current, assuming they can be synced up. I don't think the
charging algorithm needs to be complicated. We are basically bulk charging
the LiPOs to 80% with the battery BMS controlling the generator. The
concept is to get to 80% sometime in the night and solar kicks in during
the day to reach 100% using 2-stage charging from the XW charge controllers.

The problem I have is the quad XW6048s in the system run at a pretty good
load typically... often over 50%. This is off-grid with generator backup.
The transfer switches in the XW6048 are causing surges and brownouts when
the switched loads are high, especially smart dimmers and televisions. I
need seamless power for this client. My thought is to abandon the internal
chargers in the XW6048s and just run loads off inverter power full-time. I
would charge the batteries with external battery chargers. The tricky part
is how to adjust the charge rate based on load, and also based on solar
input. I need to limit the net charging current. Of course, I still need
400Adc of charging current, which I'm learning might be hard to find. I
don't really want to buy four more XWs - that's a pretty expensive
solution.

Jason Szumlanski
Florida Solar Design Group


On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 4:26 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar <
offgridso...@sti.net> wrote:

> I use the CSW 4048. It has a 50 amp charger. A good spare for clients. Get
> 2 of them. Repurpose an old Radian or XW well over 100A. XW+ is 140adc.
>
> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar*
>
> *"we go where powerlines don't"
> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ 
> 
> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net 
> text 209 813 0060*
>
> On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 14:21:14 -0400, Jason Szumlanski <
> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>
> I'm looking for a standalone 51V nominal battery charger suitable for a
> LiPO battery with 2-stage charging and adjustable setpoints for max current
> and battery voltage. It would require dual chargers with 100A capacity (I
> want dual chargers for redundancy so I have at least 50% capacity if one
> goes bad). Ideally they would sync up so they change stages simultaneously,
> but I'm not sure if that's really important.
>
> Who makes something like that?
>
> Jason Szumlanski
>
>
>
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