Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark/Fortress charging issue

2022-11-16 Thread Ray Walters via RE-wrenches 
Talk to Thomas Honey.  He is the Fortress rep, nice guy, and 
knowledgeable wrench.   He has stepped in on my issue.


Ray

On 11/16/2022 10:58 PM, Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches wrote:

Good Evening,

I have a frustrating charging issue involving 2 Fortress eVault Maxs 
connected to a Sol-Ark 15k. Commissioned the system last week, 
replacing a legacy off-grid Dual Stack SunnyIsland 5048s and 2-volt 
Rolls battery system.  Initially, we connected one of the eVaults to 
the Sol-Ark, programmed it to Fortress' and Sol-Ark's specs, setup 
closed loop, and things seemed fine.  The battery charged at around 95 
amps off the 20kW Kohler. The next day we connected the 2nd eVault, 
went through the procedures as Fortress suggested, made the necessary 
settings changes in the Sol-Ark, and that is when the issue started.


Ever since we connected the 2nd eVault, we have not been able to get 
the charge rate much above a combined total of 35 amps.  Fortress has 
pretty much said that it can't be anything on their end (although the 
communication with them has been very much limited and frustrating). 
They say that nothing on their side would limit the charge rate to 
that low, especially if the batteries were in a lower state of 
charge.  We've talked to at least 3 different Sol-Ark technicians more 
than once.  We have changed the setting between closed loop, % SOC, 
and Battery Voltage multiple times.  We've tried dropping back to a 
single battery, both the first one we had connected and the second one 
(changing the battery setup and the Sol-Ark parameters, but have only 
seen at times a moderate increase in maximum charge rate (up to about 
40 amps total).


This small increase happened after a Fortress technician suggested 
that we turn on both the generator and the grid charging toggles (the 
generator is connected to the grid port on the Sol-Ark as per 
Sol-Ark's recommendation.  Sol-Ark has run out of suggestions at the 
moment, and are having us cycle the batteries tonight and they will 
start another charge cycle in the morning to see if having a lower SOC 
along with the firmware reload will change anyhing (I don't think it 
will - it didn't the last several times.


Has anybody seen this type of behavior before?  I don't think it is a 
settings issue, as several technicians have gone through them, I have 
gone over them many times using the Fortress/Sol-Ark integration white 
papers. Hoping to get higher level  tech involved ASAP, since I don't 
feel like the lower level techs know enough to provide useful ideas.


Thanks,
Howie
*Howie Michaelson
**Sun Catcher*
*/NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™
/**
**Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service
802-272-0004*

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[RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark/Fortress charging issue

2022-11-16 Thread Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches 
Good Evening,

I have a frustrating charging issue involving 2 Fortress eVault Maxs
connected to a Sol-Ark 15k. Commissioned the system last week, replacing a
legacy off-grid Dual Stack SunnyIsland 5048s and 2-volt Rolls battery
system.  Initially, we connected one of the eVaults to the Sol-Ark,
programmed it to Fortress' and Sol-Ark's specs, setup closed loop, and
things seemed fine.  The battery charged at around 95 amps off the 20kW
Kohler. The next day we connected the 2nd eVault, went through the
procedures as Fortress suggested, made the necessary settings changes in
the Sol-Ark, and that is when the issue started.

Ever since we connected the 2nd eVault, we have not been able to get the
charge rate much above a combined total of 35 amps.  Fortress has pretty
much said that it can't be anything on their end (although the
communication with them has been very much limited and frustrating). They
say that nothing on their side would limit the charge rate to that low,
especially if the batteries were in a lower state of charge.  We've talked
to at least 3 different Sol-Ark technicians more than once.  We have
changed the setting between closed loop, % SOC, and Battery Voltage
multiple times.  We've tried dropping back to a single battery, both the
first one we had connected and the second one (changing the battery setup
and the Sol-Ark parameters, but have only seen at times a moderate increase
in maximum charge rate (up to about 40 amps total).

This small increase happened after a Fortress technician suggested that we
turn on both the generator and the grid charging toggles (the generator is
connected to the grid port on the Sol-Ark as per Sol-Ark's recommendation.
Sol-Ark has run out of suggestions at the moment, and are having us cycle
the batteries tonight and they will start another charge cycle in the
morning to see if having a lower SOC along with the firmware reload will
change anyhing (I don't think it will - it didn't the last several times.

Has anybody seen this type of behavior before?  I don't think it is a
settings issue, as several technicians have gone through them, I have gone
over them many times using the Fortress/Sol-Ark integration white papers.
Hoping to get higher level  tech involved ASAP, since I don't feel like the
lower level techs know enough to provide useful ideas.

Thanks,
Howie

*Howie Michaelson**Sun Catcher*

*NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™*

*Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service802-272-0004*
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Re: [RE-wrenches] SolArk and Tigo compatibility

2022-11-16 Thread Bradley Bassett via RE-wrenches 
The issue as I see it is that the Tigo RSS Transmitter and the APsmart
transmitter are both rated to draw up to 800ma. The 12VDC output of the
Sol-Ark inverters is limited to 100ma. Since some have used this
successfully I suppose that means that either these transmitters don't
really use more than 100ma, or the 12VDC output of the Sol-Ark can actually
handle more than that, or some combination of both. If I owned a Sol-Ark
I'd test this to see what the answer is, but alas I do not. I design
systems using a 48VDC to 12VDC power supply (Online Components has a
Mean-Well device for a reasonable price, sorry no link from here) and a
fairly rare IMO shutdown button (we have that) that has both NO and NC
contacts. This is needed because to shut down the Sol-Ark inverter requires
a NO contact that closes on initiation which is quite rare in RSD
initiators. And you do still need to shut down the inverter as well as the
RSD devices so that it does not continue to feed voltage back into the PV
circuits (I think). This also shuts down the AC output of the Sol-Ark which
tends to make the inspector happy. Since it also shuts down the inverter,
that limits the battery to its own circuits, does this count as a battery
disconnect also?? I'm seeing some inspectors calling out for battery
disconnects which is much more problematic.

Brad Bassett
AEE Solar

On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 4:27 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Wrenches, Christopher
> I have done quite a few and per solark have always connected in the
> inverter with no issues, Now with that connecting to the output side it
> would do much the same work until it did not then shut off the modules.
> Fun times
>
> On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 6:33 AM Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi, We are doing our first system with these two devices. The inverter is
>> SolArk 12P (mutimode) and the Tigo product for RS is the TS4F.  Tigo has me
>> a little bit walking in circles.
>>
>> I told them that SolArk says not to use the 12VDC RS output terminals for
>> connecting the transmitter.  I gave them the attached drawing which they
>> ask for, which shows the transmitter connected to a 120VAC/12VDC breaker
>> which they supply.  They told me to wire the 120VAC source to the main
>> service panel so the array would shut down on loss of power. I told them
>> that is exactly NOTwhat I wanted to happen as that would stop the battery
>> charging when there is a loss of utility power. I said I wanted the 120VAC
>> source to be the back up loads panel. After about a week of calls and
>> emails, I got an email back saying to use the SolArk 12VDC terminals for
>> RS.  I just emailed them a screen shot of the SolArk manual that says not
>> to do that.
>>
>> At this point, I am asking anyone on the list to let me know how they
>> wired the transmitter successfully. Thank you for any guidance, Chris Warfel
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>  Christopher Warfel
>>  ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
>> PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
>> 401-466-8978
>> 
>>
>>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] SolArk and Tigo compatibility

2022-11-16 Thread Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches 
Wrenches, Christopher
I have done quite a few and per solark have always connected in the
inverter with no issues, Now with that connecting to the output side it
would do much the same work until it did not then shut off the modules.
Fun times

On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 6:33 AM Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi, We are doing our first system with these two devices. The inverter is
> SolArk 12P (mutimode) and the Tigo product for RS is the TS4F.  Tigo has me
> a little bit walking in circles.
>
> I told them that SolArk says not to use the 12VDC RS output terminals for
> connecting the transmitter.  I gave them the attached drawing which they
> ask for, which shows the transmitter connected to a 120VAC/12VDC breaker
> which they supply.  They told me to wire the 120VAC source to the main
> service panel so the array would shut down on loss of power. I told them
> that is exactly NOTwhat I wanted to happen as that would stop the battery
> charging when there is a loss of utility power. I said I wanted the 120VAC
> source to be the back up loads panel. After about a week of calls and
> emails, I got an email back saying to use the SolArk 12VDC terminals for
> RS.  I just emailed them a screen shot of the SolArk manual that says not
> to do that.
>
> At this point, I am asking anyone on the list to let me know how they
> wired the transmitter successfully. Thank you for any guidance, Chris Warfel
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>  Christopher Warfel
>  ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
> PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
> 401-466-8978
> 
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] SolArk and Tigo compatibility

2022-11-16 Thread Dustin Douglas via RE-wrenches 
Hello All,



The utilization of the onboard 12v DC power supply is dependent on the Rapid 
Shutdown Device that you are using, whether Tigo/APSystems/Midnite. Tigo has 
many different solutions in their TS4 series of products. The devices that 
utilize the RSS Transmitter only, TS4-A-F and TS4-A-2F receivers, will be able 
to utilize the onboard 12v power supply to power the RSS Transmitter. It is 
possible to power the RSS Transmitter separately from the inverter if it makes 
the most sense for the project.



However, if you are using any of the other TS4 series (TS4-A-O, TS4-A-M and 
TS4-A-S) these require the use of the CCA (Cloud Connect Advance) and the TAP 
(Tigo Access Point) kit provided by Tigo to provide the PTO (permission to 
operate) signal to the receivers. Both the CCA and TAP kit must be powered 
separately from the included 12vDC power supply in the Sol-Ark as this exceeds 
the power supply. We recommend that these items be powered by a 120vAC circuit 
connected to the "Load" breaker of the Sol-Ark so that the CCA and TAP kit are 
powered during a grid outage.



Thank you and have a blessed day,

Dustin Douglas










 On Wed, 16 Nov 2022 16:37:57 -0600 Chris Sparadeo 
 wrote ---



@DustinDouglas do you mind confirming if the Tigo RSS Transmitter is compatible 
with the 12vdc power supply from Sol-Ark, and if not…what should we be doing to 
supply power without having to rely on 120VAC output of the inverter? 



Thanks,



-Chris 





On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 4:22 PM Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:

Hi Nick and List, that was my problem exactly. 
Chris





On 11/16/2022 12:38 PM, Nick A Lucchese
  via RE-wrenches wrote:


All, I believe what Chris is referring to is something I was
  initially confused on during a Solark install I was involved with
  last year. Uncertain if the manual has changed but in the Solark
  12k manual dated April 2, 2021 on page 23 it has a line saying- 



Note: Tigo Optimizers are compatible with the
  Sol-Ark 12k (Do not use the built in 12v Power supply in the
  Sol-Ark user area to power the Tigo Optimizer TX transmitter)



I too had to confirm with Sol-Ark to clarify these
  details. I’ve not looked at any of their newer manuals to see
  if some of these notes have changed.



Enjoy your day, Nick







On Nov 16, 2022, at 8:41 AM, Chris Sparadeo
via RE-wrenches 
wrote:



Hi Chris,



I echo Ronald’s experience. I
  wasn’t aware of any memo from Sol Ark suggesting pins
  15 and 16 should not be used for the Tigo RSS
  Transmitter. The 12K and 15K manuals both refrence a
  12vdc RSS transmitter to achieve rapid shut down. 



Best,



Chris 



On Wed, Nov 16,
  2022 at 11:21 AM Roland - RES via RE-wrenches 

  wrote:

Aloha Chris, 



We have numerous Sol-Ark systems
  with Tigo TS4Fs where we have the transmitter
  wired to the 12v supply of the inverter, with
  no issues to date.

 

 

Sent from a IPhone, with touch
screen keys on the fly. Please excuse
shortcuts and typos. 



Roland Shackelford
  
NABCEP CERTIFIED PV INSTALLER

President 

Renewable Energy Services
  (RES), Inc. 

Mobile:  http://808-938-9239/

http://www.renewablenergy.com/





On Nov 16,
  2022, at 4:33 AM, Christopher Warfel via
  RE-wrenches 

  wrote:
 







Hi, We are doing our first
  system with these two devices. The
  inverter is SolArk 12P (mutimode) and
  the Tigo product for RS is the TS4F. 
  Tigo has me a little bit walking in
  circles. 

I told them that SolArk says
not to use the 12VDC RS output terminals
for connecting the transmitter.  I gave
them the attached drawing which they ask
for, which shows the transmitter
connected to a 120VAC/12VDC breaker
which they supply.  They told me to wire
the 120VAC source to the main service
panel so the array would shut down on
loss of power. I told them that is
exactly NOTwhat I wanted to happen as

Re: [RE-wrenches] SolArk and Tigo compatibility

2022-11-16 Thread Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches 
@DustinDouglas do you mind confirming if the Tigo RSS Transmitter is
compatible with the 12vdc power supply from Sol-Ark, and if not…what should
we be doing to supply power without having to rely on 120VAC output of the
inverter?

Thanks,

-Chris


On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 4:22 PM Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi Nick and List, that was my problem exactly.  Chris
>

On 11/16/2022 12:38 PM, Nick A Lucchese via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
> All, I believe what Chris is referring to is something I was initially
> confused on during a Solark install I was involved with last year.
> Uncertain if the manual has changed but in the Solark 12k manual dated
> April 2, 2021 on page 23 it has a line saying-
>
> Note: Tigo Optimizers are compatible with the Sol-Ark 12k (Do not use the
> built in 12v Power supply in the Sol-Ark user area to power the Tigo
> Optimizer TX transmitter)
>
> I too had to confirm with Sol-Ark to clarify these details. I’ve not
> looked at any of their newer manuals to see if some of these notes have
> changed.
>
> Enjoy your day, Nick
>
>
>
> On Nov 16, 2022, at 8:41 AM, Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> I echo Ronald’s experience. I wasn’t aware of any memo from Sol Ark
> suggesting pins 15 and 16 should not be used for the Tigo RSS Transmitter.
> The 12K and 15K manuals both refrence a 12vdc RSS transmitter to achieve
> rapid shut down.
>
> Best,
>
> Chris
>
> On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 11:21 AM Roland - RES via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Aloha Chris,
>>
>> We have numerous Sol-Ark systems with Tigo TS4Fs where we have the
>> transmitter wired to the 12v supply of the inverter, with no issues to date.
>>
>> Sent from a IPhone, with touch screen keys on the fly. Please excuse
>> shortcuts and typos.
>>
>>
>> Roland Shackelford
>> NABCEP CERTIFIED PV INSTALLER
>> President
>> Renewable Energy Services (RES), Inc.
>> Mobile:  *808-938-9239 *
>> www.renewablenergy.com
>>
>> On Nov 16, 2022, at 4:33 AM, Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> Hi, We are doing our first system with these two devices. The inverter is
>> SolArk 12P (mutimode) and the Tigo product for RS is the TS4F.  Tigo has me
>> a little bit walking in circles.
>>
>> I told them that SolArk says not to use the 12VDC RS output terminals for
>> connecting the transmitter.  I gave them the attached drawing which they
>> ask for, which shows the transmitter connected to a 120VAC/12VDC breaker
>> which they supply.  They told me to wire the 120VAC source to the main
>> service panel so the array would shut down on loss of power. I told them
>> that is exactly NOTwhat I wanted to happen as that would stop the battery
>> charging when there is a loss of utility power. I said I wanted the 120VAC
>> source to be the back up loads panel. After about a week of calls and
>> emails, I got an email back saying to use the SolArk 12VDC terminals for
>> RS.  I just emailed them a screen shot of the SolArk manual that says not
>> to do that.
>>
>> At this point, I am asking anyone on the list to let me know how they
>> wired the transmitter successfully. Thank you for any guidance, Chris Warfel
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>  Christopher Warfel
>>  ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
>> PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
>> 401-466-8978
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] SolArk and Tigo compatibility

2022-11-16 Thread Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches 
Thanks Kent, I would have thought they would have this clarified by now. 
I think that we will just use a remote switch and not use the pins. It's 
starting to snow here soon, so this needs to be done.  Chris


On 11/16/2022 1:38 PM, Kent via RE-wrenches wrote:


As of the March 2022 manuals there are contradictory statements:

  * (+15, -16) 12V power supply for RSD transmitters: such as TIGO and
Midnite Rated for a maximum of 1.2W (100mA @12V)

and

  * TIGO Optimizers are compatible with the Sol-Ark 8K (Do not use the
built in 12V Power supply in the Sol-Ark user area to Power the
Tigo Optimizer TX transmitter)

Why use Tigo as an example for the pins purpose in one location and 
then say don't use them do it in another?


Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar

On 11/16/2022 9:38 AM, Nick A Lucchese via RE-wrenches wrote:
All, I believe what Chris is referring to is something I was 
initially confused on during a Solark install I was involved with 
last year. Uncertain if the manual has changed but in the Solark 12k 
manual dated April 2, 2021 on page 23 it has a line saying-


Note: Tigo Optimizers are compatible with the Sol-Ark 12k (Do not use 
the built in 12v Power supply in the Sol-Ark user area to power the 
Tigo Optimizer TX transmitter)


I too had to confirm with Sol-Ark to clarify these details. I’ve not 
looked at any of their newer manuals to see if some of these notes 
have changed.


Enjoy your day, Nick



On Nov 16, 2022, at 8:41 AM, Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Hi Chris,

I echo Ronald’s experience. I wasn’t aware of any memo from Sol Ark 
suggesting pins 15 and 16 should not be used for the Tigo RSS 
Transmitter. The 12K and 15K manuals both refrence a 12vdc RSS 
transmitter to achieve rapid shut down.


Best,

Chris

On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 11:21 AM Roland - RES via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Aloha Chris,

We have numerous Sol-Ark systems with Tigo TS4Fs where we have
the transmitter wired to the 12v supply of the inverter, with no
issues to date.


Sent from a IPhone, with touch screen keys on the fly. Please
excuse shortcuts and typos. 


Roland Shackelford
NABCEP CERTIFIED PV INSTALLER
President
Renewable Energy Services (RES), Inc.
Mobile: _808-938-9239 _
www.renewablenergy.com 


On Nov 16, 2022, at 4:33 AM, Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches
 wrote:



Hi, We are doing our first system with these two devices. The
inverter is SolArk 12P (mutimode) and the Tigo product for RS
is the TS4F.  Tigo has me a little bit walking in circles.

I told them that SolArk says not to use the 12VDC RS output
terminals for connecting the transmitter.  I gave them the
attached drawing which they ask for, which shows the
transmitter connected to a 120VAC/12VDC breaker which they
supply.  They told me to wire the 120VAC source to the main
service panel so the array would shut down on loss of power. I
told them that is exactly NOTwhat I wanted to happen as that
would stop the battery charging when there is a loss of utility
power. I said I wanted the 120VAC source to be the back up
loads panel. After about a week of calls and emails, I got an
email back saying to use the SolArk 12VDC terminals for RS.  I
just emailed them a screen shot of the SolArk manual that says
not to do that.

At this point, I am asking anyone on the list to let me know
how they wired the transmitter successfully. Thank you for any
guidance, Chris Warfel





-- 
        Christopher Warfel

             ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
        401-466-8978



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Re: [RE-wrenches] SolArk and Tigo compatibility

2022-11-16 Thread Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches 

Hi Nick and List, that was my problem exactly. Chris

On 11/16/2022 12:38 PM, Nick A Lucchese via RE-wrenches wrote:
All, I believe what Chris is referring to is something I was initially 
confused on during a Solark install I was involved with last year. 
Uncertain if the manual has changed but in the Solark 12k manual dated 
April 2, 2021 on page 23 it has a line saying-


Note: Tigo Optimizers are compatible with the Sol-Ark 12k (Do not use 
the built in 12v Power supply in the Sol-Ark user area to power the 
Tigo Optimizer TX transmitter)


I too had to confirm with Sol-Ark to clarify these details. I’ve not 
looked at any of their newer manuals to see if some of these notes 
have changed.


Enjoy your day, Nick



On Nov 16, 2022, at 8:41 AM, Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Hi Chris,

I echo Ronald’s experience. I wasn’t aware of any memo from Sol Ark 
suggesting pins 15 and 16 should not be used for the Tigo RSS 
Transmitter. The 12K and 15K manuals both refrence a 12vdc RSS 
transmitter to achieve rapid shut down.


Best,

Chris

On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 11:21 AM Roland - RES via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Aloha Chris,

We have numerous Sol-Ark systems with Tigo TS4Fs where we have
the transmitter wired to the 12v supply of the inverter, with no
issues to date.


Sent from a IPhone, with touch screen keys on the fly. Please
excuse shortcuts and typos. 


Roland Shackelford
NABCEP CERTIFIED PV INSTALLER
President
Renewable Energy Services (RES), Inc.
Mobile: _808-938-9239 _
www.renewablenergy.com 


On Nov 16, 2022, at 4:33 AM, Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches
 wrote:



Hi, We are doing our first system with these two devices. The
inverter is SolArk 12P (mutimode) and the Tigo product for RS is
the TS4F. Tigo has me a little bit walking in circles.

I told them that SolArk says not to use the 12VDC RS output
terminals for connecting the transmitter.  I gave them the
attached drawing which they ask for, which shows the transmitter
connected to a 120VAC/12VDC breaker which they supply.  They
told me to wire the 120VAC source to the main service panel so
the array would shut down on loss of power. I told them that is
exactly NOTwhat I wanted to happen as that would stop the
battery charging when there is a loss of utility power. I said I
wanted the 120VAC source to be the back up loads panel. After
about a week of calls and emails, I got an email back saying to
use the SolArk 12VDC terminals for RS.  I just emailed them a
screen shot of the SolArk manual that says not to do that.

At this point, I am asking anyone on the list to let me know how
they wired the transmitter successfully. Thank you for any
guidance, Chris Warfel





-- 
    Christopher Warfel

         ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
401-466-8978



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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Battery Problems

2022-11-16 Thread Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches 
Wrenches and Ray
So did you properly configuer the master slave battery config, I have
several set up with no issues SOC is within1 to 2% and volatge is the same,
what inverter/chargers are you using are you still connnected to bat temp
sensors I assume there is no connection to the inverter(s)
Jerry

On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 11:02 AM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Greetings Fellow Wrenches;
>
> Based on glowing reports from the RE list, I finally used Fortress for a
> battery replacement for a long time customer. Overall, it seems to be a
> better solution than others I've seen. However, we are having issues.
> First the two batteries are supposed to be linked together in a master/
> slave configuration, but they charge and discharge unevenly, and have
> SOC often 20% different.   Batteries are connected to a common buss with
> equal length 4/0 cables.
>
> I've been truly disappointed with Fortress customer support. First, I've
> called multiple times over the past two weeks, and never got through to
> anyone.  Their online support system is quite flawed as well, and I had
> a very difficult time even setting up a support ticket.  Now I can't
> even log in to view the support ticket, and I've only received one email
> back asking if I had properly paralleled the batteries.
>
> Has anyone else had a hard time with Fortress support?  Does anyone have
> a direct contact?  Customer is beyond pissed now, after almost 2 weeks
> hearing nothing, and having spent tens of thousands.
>
> Thanks;
>
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Battery Problems

2022-11-16 Thread Ray Walters via RE-wrenches 
I finally heard back from Fortress, I'm going to try their suggestion of 
"equalizing" the batteries at 55.5 v, and adjust some settings.  I'll 
report back to the list on what I come up with.  This is an interesting 
application: quad stack of VFX inverters with Midnite CCs.   Using the 
aux out on the Classic to control a relay to turn on/off the inverters 
for LVD, since Outback programming (like Schneider) won't allow LVD 
settings above 48v.


Ray

On 11/16/2022 12:40 PM, Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches wrote:

Hi Ray,

I would suggest pushing the latest firmware update to both units.

https://www.fortresspower.com/firmware/

re: tech support…

I have had good luck speaking directly to Tom:

Thomas Honey
Fortress Power
Applications Engineering
(215) 613-4318 x4318
t...@fortresspower.com

I agree that Fortress’ Discord, online ticketing system and phone 
support are subpar. Call me old school, but an answered phone call 
when on-site is a must have feature of any manufacturer.


Hope this helps,

-Chris

On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 2:20 PM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Hi Ray,
I have been having a difficult time communicating with Fortress as
well.  I filed a support ticket several times and only got a
response a couple of days later asking another question that was
easily answered, but then do not receive any reply to that without
filing another support ticket, which again takes days for them to
respond to. Very unsatisfactory and frustrating after having
invested in 7 eVault Max for a long time client. Don't have any
suggestions for you.
*Howie Michaelson
**Sun Catcher*
*/NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™
/**
**Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service
802-272-0004*


On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 2:02 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches
 wrote:

Greetings Fellow Wrenches;

Based on glowing reports from the RE list, I finally used
Fortress for a
battery replacement for a long time customer. Overall, it
seems to be a
better solution than others I've seen. However, we are having
issues.
First the two batteries are supposed to be linked together in
a master/
slave configuration, but they charge and discharge unevenly,
and have
SOC often 20% different.   Batteries are connected to a common
buss with
equal length 4/0 cables.

I've been truly disappointed with Fortress customer support.
First, I've
called multiple times over the past two weeks, and never got
through to
anyone.  Their online support system is quite flawed as well,
and I had
a very difficult time even setting up a support ticket. Now I
can't
even log in to view the support ticket, and I've only received
one email
back asking if I had properly paralleled the batteries.

Has anyone else had a hard time with Fortress support? Does
anyone have
a direct contact?  Customer is beyond pissed now, after almost
2 weeks
hearing nothing, and having spent tens of thousands.

Thanks;

Ray Walters
Remote Solar

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Battery Problems

2022-11-16 Thread Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches 
Hi Ray,

I would suggest pushing the latest firmware update to both units.

https://www.fortresspower.com/firmware/

re: tech support…

I have had good luck speaking directly to Tom:

Thomas Honey
Fortress Power
Applications Engineering
(215) 613-4318 x4318
t...@fortresspower.com

I agree that Fortress’ Discord, online ticketing system and phone support
are subpar. Call me old school, but an answered phone call when on-site is
a must have feature of any manufacturer.

Hope this helps,

-Chris

On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 2:20 PM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi Ray,
> I have been having a difficult time communicating with Fortress as well.
> I filed a support ticket several times and only got a response a couple of
> days later asking another question that was easily answered, but then do
> not receive any reply to that without filing another support ticket, which
> again takes days for them to respond to.  Very unsatisfactory and
> frustrating after having invested in 7 eVault Max for a long time client.
> Don't have any suggestions for you.
>
> *Howie Michaelson**Sun Catcher*
>
> *NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™*
>
> *Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service802-272-0004*
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 2:02 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Greetings Fellow Wrenches;
>>
>> Based on glowing reports from the RE list, I finally used Fortress for a
>> battery replacement for a long time customer. Overall, it seems to be a
>> better solution than others I've seen. However, we are having issues.
>> First the two batteries are supposed to be linked together in a master/
>> slave configuration, but they charge and discharge unevenly, and have
>> SOC often 20% different.   Batteries are connected to a common buss with
>> equal length 4/0 cables.
>>
>> I've been truly disappointed with Fortress customer support. First, I've
>> called multiple times over the past two weeks, and never got through to
>> anyone.  Their online support system is quite flawed as well, and I had
>> a very difficult time even setting up a support ticket.  Now I can't
>> even log in to view the support ticket, and I've only received one email
>> back asking if I had properly paralleled the batteries.
>>
>> Has anyone else had a hard time with Fortress support?  Does anyone have
>> a direct contact?  Customer is beyond pissed now, after almost 2 weeks
>> hearing nothing, and having spent tens of thousands.
>>
>> Thanks;
>>
>> Ray Walters
>> Remote Solar
>>
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Battery Problems

2022-11-16 Thread Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches 
Hi Ray,
I have been having a difficult time communicating with Fortress as well.  I
filed a support ticket several times and only got a response a couple of
days later asking another question that was easily answered, but then do
not receive any reply to that without filing another support ticket, which
again takes days for them to respond to.  Very unsatisfactory and
frustrating after having invested in 7 eVault Max for a long time client.
Don't have any suggestions for you.

*Howie Michaelson**Sun Catcher*

*NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™*

*Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service802-272-0004*


On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 2:02 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Greetings Fellow Wrenches;
>
> Based on glowing reports from the RE list, I finally used Fortress for a
> battery replacement for a long time customer. Overall, it seems to be a
> better solution than others I've seen. However, we are having issues.
> First the two batteries are supposed to be linked together in a master/
> slave configuration, but they charge and discharge unevenly, and have
> SOC often 20% different.   Batteries are connected to a common buss with
> equal length 4/0 cables.
>
> I've been truly disappointed with Fortress customer support. First, I've
> called multiple times over the past two weeks, and never got through to
> anyone.  Their online support system is quite flawed as well, and I had
> a very difficult time even setting up a support ticket.  Now I can't
> even log in to view the support ticket, and I've only received one email
> back asking if I had properly paralleled the batteries.
>
> Has anyone else had a hard time with Fortress support?  Does anyone have
> a direct contact?  Customer is beyond pissed now, after almost 2 weeks
> hearing nothing, and having spent tens of thousands.
>
> Thanks;
>
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
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[RE-wrenches] Fortress Battery Problems

2022-11-16 Thread Ray Walters via RE-wrenches 

Greetings Fellow Wrenches;

Based on glowing reports from the RE list, I finally used Fortress for a 
battery replacement for a long time customer. Overall, it seems to be a 
better solution than others I've seen. However, we are having issues.  
First the two batteries are supposed to be linked together in a master/ 
slave configuration, but they charge and discharge unevenly, and have 
SOC often 20% different.   Batteries are connected to a common buss with 
equal length 4/0 cables.


I've been truly disappointed with Fortress customer support. First, I've 
called multiple times over the past two weeks, and never got through to 
anyone.  Their online support system is quite flawed as well, and I had 
a very difficult time even setting up a support ticket.  Now I can't 
even log in to view the support ticket, and I've only received one email 
back asking if I had properly paralleled the batteries.


Has anyone else had a hard time with Fortress support?  Does anyone have 
a direct contact?  Customer is beyond pissed now, after almost 2 weeks 
hearing nothing, and having spent tens of thousands.


Thanks;

Ray Walters
Remote Solar

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Re: [RE-wrenches] SolArk and Tigo compatibility

2022-11-16 Thread Kent via RE-wrenches 

As of the March 2022 manuals there are contradictory statements:

 * (+15, -16) 12V power supply for RSD transmitters: such as TIGO and
   Midnite Rated for a maximum of 1.2W (100mA @12V)

and

 * TIGO Optimizers are compatible with the Sol-Ark 8K (Do not use the
   built in 12V Power supply in the Sol-Ark user area to Power the Tigo
   Optimizer TX transmitter)

Why use Tigo as an example for the pins purpose in one location and then 
say don't use them do it in another?


Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar

On 11/16/2022 9:38 AM, Nick A Lucchese via RE-wrenches wrote:
All, I believe what Chris is referring to is something I was initially 
confused on during a Solark install I was involved with last year. 
Uncertain if the manual has changed but in the Solark 12k manual dated 
April 2, 2021 on page 23 it has a line saying-


Note: Tigo Optimizers are compatible with the Sol-Ark 12k (Do not use 
the built in 12v Power supply in the Sol-Ark user area to power the 
Tigo Optimizer TX transmitter)


I too had to confirm with Sol-Ark to clarify these details. I’ve not 
looked at any of their newer manuals to see if some of these notes 
have changed.


Enjoy your day, Nick



On Nov 16, 2022, at 8:41 AM, Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Hi Chris,

I echo Ronald’s experience. I wasn’t aware of any memo from Sol Ark 
suggesting pins 15 and 16 should not be used for the Tigo RSS 
Transmitter. The 12K and 15K manuals both refrence a 12vdc RSS 
transmitter to achieve rapid shut down.


Best,

Chris

On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 11:21 AM Roland - RES via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Aloha Chris,

We have numerous Sol-Ark systems with Tigo TS4Fs where we have
the transmitter wired to the 12v supply of the inverter, with no
issues to date.


Sent from a IPhone, with touch screen keys on the fly. Please
excuse shortcuts and typos. 


Roland Shackelford
NABCEP CERTIFIED PV INSTALLER
President
Renewable Energy Services (RES), Inc.
Mobile: _808-938-9239 _
www.renewablenergy.com 


On Nov 16, 2022, at 4:33 AM, Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches
 wrote:



Hi, We are doing our first system with these two devices. The
inverter is SolArk 12P (mutimode) and the Tigo product for RS is
the TS4F. Tigo has me a little bit walking in circles.

I told them that SolArk says not to use the 12VDC RS output
terminals for connecting the transmitter.  I gave them the
attached drawing which they ask for, which shows the transmitter
connected to a 120VAC/12VDC breaker which they supply.  They
told me to wire the 120VAC source to the main service panel so
the array would shut down on loss of power. I told them that is
exactly NOTwhat I wanted to happen as that would stop the
battery charging when there is a loss of utility power. I said I
wanted the 120VAC source to be the back up loads panel. After
about a week of calls and emails, I got an email back saying to
use the SolArk 12VDC terminals for RS.  I just emailed them a
screen shot of the SolArk manual that says not to do that.

At this point, I am asking anyone on the list to let me know how
they wired the transmitter successfully. Thank you for any
guidance, Chris Warfel





-- 
    Christopher Warfel

         ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
401-466-8978



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Re: [RE-wrenches] SolArk and Tigo compatibility

2022-11-16 Thread Nick A Lucchese via RE-wrenches 
All, I believe what Chris is referring to is something I was initially confused 
on during a Solark install I was involved with last year. Uncertain if the 
manual has changed but in the Solark 12k manual dated April 2, 2021 on page 23 
it has a line saying-

Note: Tigo Optimizers are compatible with the Sol-Ark 12k (Do not use the built 
in 12v Power supply in the Sol-Ark user area to power the Tigo Optimizer TX 
transmitter)

I too had to confirm with Sol-Ark to clarify these details. I’ve not looked at 
any of their newer manuals to see if some of these notes have changed.

Enjoy your day, Nick



> On Nov 16, 2022, at 8:41 AM, Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Chris,
> 
> I echo Ronald’s experience. I wasn’t aware of any memo from Sol Ark 
> suggesting pins 15 and 16 should not be used for the Tigo RSS Transmitter. 
> The 12K and 15K manuals both refrence a 12vdc RSS transmitter to achieve 
> rapid shut down. 
> 
> Best,
> 
> Chris 
> 
> On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 11:21 AM Roland - RES via RE-wrenches 
>  > wrote:
> Aloha Chris,
> 
> We have numerous Sol-Ark systems with Tigo TS4Fs where we have the 
> transmitter wired to the 12v supply of the inverter, with no issues to date.
> 
>> Sent from a IPhone, with touch screen keys on the fly. Please excuse 
>> shortcuts and typos. 
>> 
> Roland Shackelford
> NABCEP CERTIFIED PV INSTALLER
> President 
> Renewable Energy Services (RES), Inc. 
> Mobile:  808-938-9239 
> www.renewablenergy.com 
> 
>> On Nov 16, 2022, at 4:33 AM, Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches 
>> > > wrote:
>> 
>> 
> 
>> Hi, We are doing our first system with these two devices. The inverter is 
>> SolArk 12P (mutimode) and the Tigo product for RS is the TS4F.  Tigo has me 
>> a little bit walking in circles. 
>> 
>> I told them that SolArk says not to use the 12VDC RS output terminals for 
>> connecting the transmitter.  I gave them the attached drawing which they ask 
>> for, which shows the transmitter connected to a 120VAC/12VDC breaker which 
>> they supply.  They told me to wire the 120VAC source to the main service 
>> panel so the array would shut down on loss of power. I told them that is 
>> exactly NOTwhat I wanted to happen as that would stop the battery charging 
>> when there is a loss of utility power. I said I wanted the 120VAC source to 
>> be the back up loads panel. After about a week of calls and emails, I got an 
>> email back saying to use the SolArk 12VDC terminals for RS.  I just emailed 
>> them a screen shot of the SolArk manual that says not to do that.
>> 
>> At this point, I am asking anyone on the list to let me know how they wired 
>> the transmitter successfully. Thank you for any guidance, Chris Warfel
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>>  Christopher Warfel
>>  ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
>> PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
>> 401-466-8978
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> 
> 
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>> 
>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org 
>> 
>> 
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org 
>> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] SolArk and Tigo compatibility

2022-11-16 Thread Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches 
Hi Chris,

I echo Ronald’s experience. I wasn’t aware of any memo from Sol Ark
suggesting pins 15 and 16 should not be used for the Tigo RSS Transmitter.
The 12K and 15K manuals both refrence a 12vdc RSS transmitter to achieve
rapid shut down.

Best,

Chris

On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 11:21 AM Roland - RES via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Aloha Chris,
>
> We have numerous Sol-Ark systems with Tigo TS4Fs where we have the
> transmitter wired to the 12v supply of the inverter, with no issues to date.
>
> Sent from a IPhone, with touch screen keys on the fly. Please excuse
> shortcuts and typos.
>
>
> Roland Shackelford
> NABCEP CERTIFIED PV INSTALLER
> President
> Renewable Energy Services (RES), Inc.
> Mobile:  *808-938-9239 *
> www.renewablenergy.com
>
> On Nov 16, 2022, at 4:33 AM, Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Hi, We are doing our first system with these two devices. The inverter is
> SolArk 12P (mutimode) and the Tigo product for RS is the TS4F.  Tigo has me
> a little bit walking in circles.
>
> I told them that SolArk says not to use the 12VDC RS output terminals for
> connecting the transmitter.  I gave them the attached drawing which they
> ask for, which shows the transmitter connected to a 120VAC/12VDC breaker
> which they supply.  They told me to wire the 120VAC source to the main
> service panel so the array would shut down on loss of power. I told them
> that is exactly NOTwhat I wanted to happen as that would stop the battery
> charging when there is a loss of utility power. I said I wanted the 120VAC
> source to be the back up loads panel. After about a week of calls and
> emails, I got an email back saying to use the SolArk 12VDC terminals for
> RS.  I just emailed them a screen shot of the SolArk manual that says not
> to do that.
>
> At this point, I am asking anyone on the list to let me know how they
> wired the transmitter successfully. Thank you for any guidance, Chris Warfel
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>  Christopher Warfel
>  ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
> PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
> 401-466-8978
> 
>
> 
>
>
> ___
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>
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> --
Chris Sparadeo


C_802-369-4458
H_802-728-3059
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Re: [RE-wrenches] SolArk and Tigo compatibility

2022-11-16 Thread Roland - RES via RE-wrenches 
Aloha Chris,We have numerous Sol-Ark systems with Tigo TS4Fs where we have the transmitter wired to the 12v supply of the inverter, with no issues to date.Sent from a IPhone, with touch screen keys on the fly. Please excuse shortcuts and typos. Roland ShackelfordNABCEP CERTIFIED PV INSTALLERPresident Renewable Energy Services (RES), Inc. Mobile:  808-938-9239www.renewablenergy.comOn Nov 16, 2022, at 4:33 AM, Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches  wrote:
  


  
  
Hi, We are doing our first system with these two
devices. The inverter is SolArk 12P (mutimode) and the Tigo
product for RS is the TS4F.  Tigo has me a little bit walking in
circles. 
  
I told them that SolArk says not to use the 12VDC RS output
  terminals for connecting the transmitter.  I gave them the
  attached drawing which they ask for, which shows the transmitter
  connected to a 120VAC/12VDC breaker which they supply.  They told
  me to wire the 120VAC source to the main service panel so the
  array would shut down on loss of power. I told them that is
  exactly NOTwhat I wanted to happen as that would stop the battery
  charging when there is a loss of utility power. I said I wanted
  the 120VAC source to be the back up loads panel. After about a
  week of calls and emails, I got an email back saying to use the
  SolArk 12VDC terminals for RS.  I just emailed them a screen shot
  of the SolArk manual that says not to do that.
At this point, I am asking anyone on the list to let me know how
  they wired the transmitter successfully. Thank you for any
  guidance, Chris Warfel









-- 
  
  

  

  


                    
              Christopher Warfel
                 ENTECH
  Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI
  02807
                           
                                  401-466-8978



  

  

  

  


Tigo Transmitter Powering.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
___List sponsored by Redwood AlliancePay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.orgList Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgChange listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgThere are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmCheck out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] SolArk and Tigo compatibility

2022-11-16 Thread Kirpal via RE-wrenches 
Chris,
Assuming there will be 48V batteries in the system - connect the
Tigo transmitter via a 48V to 12V power supply and come off of the battery
bussing.  If there are no batteries now, use the 120V-12V power supply
from the backed up loads panel - then when they get batteries that panel
will remain live even during power outage and allow panels to remain on
even with grid outage. You will need to install an additional rapid
shutdown switch in line with power to the transmitter if rapid shutdown is
required or desired..  If there are no batteries now, then solar can't stay
on anyway during power outages..
Sunny Regards,
Kirpal Khalsa
Oregon LRT#25
Oregon Solarworks LLC
www.oregonsolarworks.com
541-299-0402


On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 6:33 AM Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi, We are doing our first system with these two devices. The inverter is
> SolArk 12P (mutimode) and the Tigo product for RS is the TS4F.  Tigo has me
> a little bit walking in circles.
>
> I told them that SolArk says not to use the 12VDC RS output terminals for
> connecting the transmitter.  I gave them the attached drawing which they
> ask for, which shows the transmitter connected to a 120VAC/12VDC breaker
> which they supply.  They told me to wire the 120VAC source to the main
> service panel so the array would shut down on loss of power. I told them
> that is exactly NOTwhat I wanted to happen as that would stop the battery
> charging when there is a loss of utility power. I said I wanted the 120VAC
> source to be the back up loads panel. After about a week of calls and
> emails, I got an email back saying to use the SolArk 12VDC terminals for
> RS.  I just emailed them a screen shot of the SolArk manual that says not
> to do that.
>
> At this point, I am asking anyone on the list to let me know how they
> wired the transmitter successfully. Thank you for any guidance, Chris Warfel
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>  Christopher Warfel
>  ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
> PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
> 401-466-8978
> 
>
>
> ___
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[RE-wrenches] SolArk and Tigo compatibility

2022-11-16 Thread Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches 
Hi, We are doing our first system with these two devices. The inverter 
is SolArk 12P (mutimode) and the Tigo product for RS is the TS4F.  Tigo 
has me a little bit walking in circles.


I told them that SolArk says not to use the 12VDC RS output terminals 
for connecting the transmitter.  I gave them the attached drawing which 
they ask for, which shows the transmitter connected to a 120VAC/12VDC 
breaker which they supply.  They told me to wire the 120VAC source to 
the main service panel so the array would shut down on loss of power. I 
told them that is exactly NOTwhat I wanted to happen as that would stop 
the battery charging when there is a loss of utility power. I said I 
wanted the 120VAC source to be the back up loads panel. After about a 
week of calls and emails, I got an email back saying to use the SolArk 
12VDC terminals for RS.  I just emailed them a screen shot of the SolArk 
manual that says not to do that.


At this point, I am asking anyone on the list to let me know how they 
wired the transmitter successfully. Thank you for any guidance, Chris Warfel






--
            Christopher Warfel
                 ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
                                401-466-8978




Tigo Transmitter Powering.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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