Re: [RE-wrenches] High current dc combiner vibration

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches, Kirk
Once you learn what is causing the issue then deciding on what to do is
safer, If you have access to a scope that may show you a DC side
fluctuation, pulsing or plain noise in the system.
Fun times in solar

On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 4:00 AM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> I have -15- sets of 4/0 cable (1 per 32 kwh stack) into the combiner. They
> are paired and within .25 " of one another in wire cable tray for 80% of
> their respective distance.
>
> The inverter to combiner sets are 2/0 for each respective inverter. They
> are paired (not twisted) in cable tray, anywhere from 10 -20' in length.
> Maybe I can send some photos, but can't at present due to computer issues.
>
> I used cable tray because the CT-rated cable is in free air, no derating
> of current required. But merely pairing the leads may be the issue.
>
> I could rearrange the inverter cables and twist the sets, but doing it
> from combiner to battery cabinets is impossible.
>
> And I'm wondering if this is really necessary if the customer is willing
> to live with the issue. What are the ramifications down the road?
> Loosening of connections I suppose would be one.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 12:40 AM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Kirk
>> As the batteries come up to charge does the vibration subside. Are the
>> battery cables spun together "corkscrew like" l have seen this correct DC
>> noise. I have an 8 on 8 just like your 10 and l have no noise at all, mine
>> come in from each side of the battery combiner, how is your install
>> configured, how is the cable length same close or very short to very long
>> some length is better on FLA's due to resistance under load and charge.
>> More information may help with a solution.
>> Fun times solar
>> NABCEP PV Inspector
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 29, 2023, 8:19 AM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> All,
>>>
>>> I am in the middle of commissioning a 480kwh BP LFP battery bank,
>>> connected to -10- OB Radian 8kw inverter/chargers.
>>>
>>> For the DC combiner I am using midnite 2000 amp combiner boxes, modified
>>> to mount  class T fuses on the positive bus, for both battery inputs and
>>> inverter outputs.
>>>
>>> For starters, I set the master inverter at a max charge rate of 20 AC
>>> amps, which equates to a DC charge of about 74 A. All the other inverters
>>> are automatically set to this charge rate as well.
>>>
>>> Turning the chargers on one by one, I started to get quite an audible
>>> vibration from the combiner box at a combined charge of about 400 to 500 A.
>>>
>>> So I took the cover off of the combiner, which was vibrating noticabllly
>>> by feel. Most of the noise was from the cover not fitting tight. But the
>>> The box itself is also vibrating by feel.
>>>
>>> I took the combined charge up to 640A dc. This level of vibration
>>> definitely increases with an increased charge rate. And I am surprised
>>> because after all, we’re not talking AC here we’re talking DC. It almost
>>> reminds me of a large AC transformer in its behavior. The vibration did not
>>> seem to be originating at the inverters, then resonating to the combiner.
>>>
>>> I can dampen the vibration by adding a few things, but I’m surprised
>>> that this is happening. All connections in the combiner are tightened
>>> properly. Ideas?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> *Kirk Herander / **kirkh@vermont.solar *
>>>
>>> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC*
>>>
>>> *Celebrating our 32st Anniversary 1991-2023!!*
>>>
>>> dba Vermont Solar Engineering
>>>
>>> 802.863.1202
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Manufactured homes

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

I lived in Mariposa CA before moving to Nevada. The workaround was to 
buy a metal roof structure like a car barn and cover the M home with it. 
The metal car barn had the snow load engineering. This made the building 
department happy. I definitely would not put solar on a manufactured 
home and expect any support from the AHJ.


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2023-06-30 2:14 pm, Bruce Erickson via RE-wrenches wrote:


Hi California guys,

We have a couple of leads that are manufactured homes, that have to be 
permitted through the CA Housing and Community Development office. The 
HCD wants roof engineering, and we are having trouble finding anyone 
local who will do this. Has anyone worked with an engineering firm 
anywhere in CA that is willing to deal with manufactured housing? (The 
builder of the houses has been no help other than providing non-stamped 
drawings.)


Thanks,
Bruce Erickson
Mendocino Solar Service
707-937-1701
PO Box 1252
Mendocino, CA 95460

"Serving the Solar System"

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Manufactured homes

[Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches]

check with Iron Ridge as they have done for me

On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 4:15 PM Bruce Erickson via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi California guys,
>
> We have a couple of leads that are manufactured homes, that have to be
> permitted through the CA Housing and Community Development office. The HCD
> wants roof engineering, and we are having trouble finding anyone local who
> will do this. Has anyone worked with an engineering firm anywhere in CA
> that is willing to deal with manufactured housing? (The builder of the
> houses has been no help other than providing non-stamped drawings.)
>
> Thanks,
> Bruce Erickson
> Mendocino Solar Service
> 707-937-1701
> PO Box 1252
> Mendocino, CA 95460
>
>
>
> "Serving the Solar System"
>
>
>
>
>
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[RE-wrenches] Manufactured homes

[Bruce Erickson via RE-wrenches]

Hi California guys,

We have a couple of leads that are manufactured homes, that have to be 
permitted through the CA Housing and Community Development office. The HCD 
wants roof engineering, and we are having trouble finding anyone local who will 
do this. Has anyone worked with an engineering firm anywhere in CA that is 
willing to deal with manufactured housing? (The builder of the houses has been 
no help other than providing non-stamped drawings.)

Thanks,
Bruce Erickson
Mendocino Solar Service
707-937-1701 
PO Box 1252
Mendocino, CA 95460
 


"Serving the Solar System"





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Re: [RE-wrenches] LG Chem RESU10H Battery Question

[Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches]

Hi David I think although it is 450 volts out, the battery is actually moch
lower voltage and has a buck boost charge controller. It bucks the voltage
down to charge the battery and boost the voltage to serve the load.  If you
open the battery and rewire you will need a BMS, you can find on line but
you need to know the battery voltages I think it is 3.8 to 4.1.  NMC
perhaps some one on line knows

On Fri, Jun 30, 2023, 11:40 AM David Katz via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> I have an LG Chem RESU10H Battery that was originally sold with a
> SunnyStorage inverter.  Does anyone know if there is a way to turn on the
> battery output terminals so it can be charged without the inverter. No
> lights come on when you turn on the main switch and the output breaker.
> There is a small terminal strip for control wires. There is a 12V + and –
> terminal and a Batt En terminal.  Does any one know if powering the Batt
> En. Terminal turns it on?  I am going to try that but I am not sure what
> voltage that terminal wants to see.
>
> Thanks
>
> David Katz
>
>
>
> David Katz
>
> *President*
>
> *www.tamaracksolar.com *
>
> (707) 222-6240 Ext: 105 | (707) 832-7487
>
> dk...@tamaracksolar.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] LG Chem RESU10H Battery Question

[David Katz via RE-wrenches]

Hi David. There sure are a lot of David’s around. Where are you. I would love 
to borrow it.
David

Get Outlook for iOS

From: RE-wrenches  on behalf of 
david quattro via RE-wrenches 
Sent: Friday, June 30, 2023 12:15:07 PM
To: RE-wrenches ; offgridso...@sti.net 

Cc: david quattro 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] LG Chem RESU10H Battery Question

Hi David and David, it’s me David
Since no lights come on when you turn the breakers on, it sounds like the 
battery is deeply discharged. I bought a specialized charger for the RESU10H.   
If you want to borrow it let me know.
David Quattro


On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 10:40 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> 
wrote:
Hi David,

I own and tested the 48V version Resu10, not the 10H that you have. On the one 
I have, the battery needs a heartbeat signal to operate.
Without that signal from the inverter or a device that talks to LG battery the 
contactor will open and shut down the battery.

This was a pretty early lithium offering and has proven to be very undesirable. 
We destroyed 2 of the Resu 10's with XW charge currents.

Not sure if your plan is safe. Maybe the guy's here will know more. I would 
hold off until. Good Luck



Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060


On 2023-06-30 9:39 am, David Katz via RE-wrenches wrote:

I have an LG Chem RESU10H Battery that was originally sold with a SunnyStorage 
inverter.  Does anyone know if there is a way to turn on the battery output 
terminals so it can be charged without the inverter. No lights come on when you 
turn on the main switch and the output breaker.  There is a small terminal 
strip for control wires. There is a 12V + and – terminal and a Batt En 
terminal.  Does any one know if powering the Batt En. Terminal turns it on?  I 
am going to try that but I am not sure what voltage that terminal wants to see.

Thanks

David Katz



[cid:1890d94204ead7999131]

David Katz

President

www.tamaracksolar.com

(707) 222-6240 Ext: 105 | (707) 832-7487

dk...@tamaracksolar.com







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--

David Quattro
CA License # 954020. C-10, C-46
ph (415) 312-2661
www.quattrosolar.com

[https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4x2CRHFQ2qTbaBSriGv3NFF6o3vPHKxr35HvBHYllFRBH-f8WALTOLOC2nxs0tEJHjB2WO6u2FFqPE4NBNuRqDKo2NJa7HpcNg2TVse5Q]
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Re: [RE-wrenches] LG Chem RESU10H Battery Question

[david quattro via RE-wrenches]

Hi David and David, it’s me David
Since no lights come on when you turn the breakers on, it sounds like
the battery is deeply discharged. I bought a specialized charger for the
RESU10H.   If you want to borrow it let me know.
David Quattro


On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 10:40 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via
RE-wrenches  wrote:

> Hi David,
>
> I own and tested the 48V version Resu10, not the 10H that you have. On the
> one I have, the battery needs a heartbeat signal to operate.
> Without that signal from the inverter or a device that talks to LG battery
> the contactor will open and shut down the battery.
>
> This was a pretty early lithium offering and has proven to be very
> undesirable. We destroyed 2 of the Resu 10's with XW charge currents.
>
> Not sure if your plan is safe. Maybe the guy's here will know more. I
> would hold off until. Good Luck
>
>
>
> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> "we go where powerlines don't"
> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ 
> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net 
> text 209 813 0060*
>
>
> On 2023-06-30 9:39 am, David Katz via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
> I have an LG Chem RESU10H Battery that was originally sold with a
> SunnyStorage inverter.  Does anyone know if there is a way to turn on the
> battery output terminals so it can be charged without the inverter. No
> lights come on when you turn on the main switch and the output breaker.
> There is a small terminal strip for control wires. There is a 12V + and –
> terminal and a Batt En terminal.  Does any one know if powering the Batt
> En. Terminal turns it on?  I am going to try that but I am not sure what
> voltage that terminal wants to see.
>
> Thanks
>
> David Katz
>
>
>
> David Katz
>
> *President*
>
> *www.tamaracksolar.com *
>
> (707) 222-6240 Ext: 105 | (707) 832-7487
>
> dk...@tamaracksolar.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
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David Quattro
CA License # 954020. C-10, C-46
ph (415) 312-2661
www.quattrosolar.com
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Re: [RE-wrenches] LG Chem RESU10H Battery Question

[David Katz via RE-wrenches]

Thanks Dave.  That’s why I am asking.  Does the heart beat come through the Can 
Bus?  There are a lot of these around that did not work as intended.  I am 
consdidering opening this one up and reconfiguring for 56 volts.  This one is 
450 volts.  Maybe that’s what the H stands for.
David

[cid:image001.png@01D9AB4A.CA07F8F0]
David Katz
President
www.tamaracksolar.com
(707) 222-6240 Ext: 105 | (707) 832-7487
dk...@tamaracksolar.com



From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Dave 
Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches
Sent: Friday, June 30, 2023 10:41 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] LG Chem RESU10H Battery Question

Hi David,

I own and tested the 48V version Resu10, not the 10H that you have. On the one 
I have, the battery needs a heartbeat signal to operate.
Without that signal from the inverter or a device that talks to LG battery the 
contactor will open and shut down the battery.

This was a pretty early lithium offering and has proven to be very undesirable. 
We destroyed 2 of the Resu 10's with XW charge currents.

Not sure if your plan is safe. Maybe the guy's here will know more. I would 
hold off until. Good Luck



Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar

"we go where powerlines don't"

http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/

e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net

text 209 813 0060



On 2023-06-30 9:39 am, David Katz via RE-wrenches wrote:

I have an LG Chem RESU10H Battery that was originally sold with a SunnyStorage 
inverter.  Does anyone know if there is a way to turn on the battery output 
terminals so it can be charged without the inverter. No lights come on when you 
turn on the main switch and the output breaker.  There is a small terminal 
strip for control wires. There is a 12V + and – terminal and a Batt En 
terminal.  Does any one know if powering the Batt En. Terminal turns it on?  I 
am going to try that but I am not sure what voltage that terminal wants to see.

Thanks

David Katz



[cid:image001.png@01D9AB4A.CA07F8F0]

David Katz

President

www.tamaracksolar.com

(707) 222-6240 Ext: 105 | (707) 832-7487

dk...@tamaracksolar.com







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Re: [RE-wrenches] High current dc combiner vibration

[Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches]

Hello, what do people think about the suggestion for chokes to filter this
noise out? How do I go about sizing a choke for something like that? Would
it have to be on each and every positive and negative conductor? And I
assume I’d wanna place those chokes as close as practical to the inverters
because that’s the assumed source of the 120 Hz ripple. And maybe that
approach could also harden the inverters against EMP and other outside
induced noise.

I am using 2 inch SEU connectors, metallic, to pass the cables into and out
of the combiner, I guess that’s not helping things. I was thinking of using
some heat resistant rubber tape/mastic to wrap the cables as they pass
through those connectors at least for dampening.

On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 12:46 PM bob--- via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

>
>
> We are talking to Kirk offline about this but the main issue here is that
> the enclosure
> for the 2000A combiner is made out of steel which is ferrous.  That means
> that when the
> 120 Hz ripple current induces into the chassis it can vibrate just like a
> transformer.
>
> Low frequency transformer inverters are have higher ripple than the newer
> HF transformer units
> but they have some AC ripple on the battery cables as well.
>
> This combiner is evidently been around for about 8 years and we haven't
> heard any complaints
> but maybe others have been silent on this.  I am not surprised at all that
> this happens.
>
> Aluminum chassis has the problem that it is a good conductor so when the
> whole enclosure forms
> around the cables, the aluminum can act as a shorted turn in a
> transformer.  It is usually just
> lossy but should vibrate much less, if at all.
>
> There are other issues in switching to aluminum that Robin mentions, here:
>
> *"One reason is cost, the other is fasteners, We would need to use press
> nuts instead of snail shells. *
> *Snail shells and sheet metal screws don’t do well in aluminum. It is too
> soft. Aluminum would not *
>
>
> *vibrate from magnetic ripple activity though." *He has some ideas to
> make aluminum work so we will try those.
>
> Now, plastic could work.   Just has to be real thick.Darn physics !
>
> Damping can help, like Kirk tried (more can be done here too).  Keeping
> the cables
> together best as you can inside the chassis may help as well but moving
> and routing
> the cables might also reduce the buzzing some more.
>
> That's the latest buzz from here.
>
> 🌜boB🌛
> K7IQ
>
> On 6/30/2023 8:45 AM, david quattro via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
> Ferrite cores can be used for the battery cables to pass through to reduce
> common mode current
>
> On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 3:59 AM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> I have -15- sets of 4/0 cable (1 per 32 kwh stack) into the combiner.
>> They are paired and within .25 " of one another in wire cable tray for 80%
>> of their respective distance.
>>
>> The inverter to combiner sets are 2/0 for each respective inverter. They
>> are paired (not twisted) in cable tray, anywhere from 10 -20' in length.
>> Maybe I can send some photos, but can't at present due to computer issues.
>>
>> I used cable tray because the CT-rated cable is in free air, no derating
>> of current required. But merely pairing the leads may be the issue.
>>
>> I could rearrange the inverter cables and twist the sets, but doing it
>> from combiner to battery cabinets is impossible.
>>
>> And I'm wondering if this is really necessary if the customer is willing
>> to live with the issue. What are the ramifications down the road?
>> Loosening of connections I suppose would be one.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 12:40 AM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Kirk
>>> As the batteries come up to charge does the vibration subside. Are the
>>> battery cables spun together "corkscrew like" l have seen this correct DC
>>> noise. I have an 8 on 8 just like your 10 and l have no noise at all, mine
>>> come in from each side of the battery combiner, how is your install
>>> configured, how is the cable length same close or very short to very long
>>> some length is better on FLA's due to resistance under load and charge.
>>> More information may help with a solution.
>>> Fun times solar
>>> NABCEP PV Inspector
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 29, 2023, 8:19 AM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches <
>>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>
 All,

 I am in the middle of commissioning a 480kwh BP LFP battery bank,
 connected to -10- OB Radian 8kw inverter/chargers.

 For the DC combiner I am using midnite 2000 amp combiner boxes,
 modified to mount  class T fuses on the positive bus, for both battery
 inputs and inverter outputs.

 For starters, I set the master inverter at a max charge rate of 20 AC
 amps, which equates to a DC charge of about 74 A. All the other inverters
 are automatically set to this charge rate

Re: [RE-wrenches] LG Chem RESU10H Battery Question

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

Hi David,

I own and tested the 48V version Resu10, not the 10H that you have. On 
the one I have, the battery needs a heartbeat signal to operate.
Without that signal from the inverter or a device that talks to LG 
battery the contactor will open and shut down the battery.


This was a pretty early lithium offering and has proven to be very 
undesirable. We destroyed 2 of the Resu 10's with XW charge currents.


Not sure if your plan is safe. Maybe the guy's here will know more. I 
would hold off until. Good Luck


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2023-06-30 9:39 am, David Katz via RE-wrenches wrote:

I have an LG Chem RESU10H Battery that was originally sold with a 
SunnyStorage inverter.  Does anyone know if there is a way to turn on 
the battery output terminals so it can be charged without the inverter. 
No lights come on when you turn on the main switch and the output 
breaker.  There is a small terminal strip for control wires. There is a 
12V + and - terminal and a Batt En terminal.  Does any one know if 
powering the Batt En. Terminal turns it on?  I am going to try that but 
I am not sure what voltage that terminal wants to see.


Thanks

David Katz

David Katz

President

www.tamaracksolar.com [1]

(707) 222-6240 Ext: 105 | (707) 832-7487

dk...@tamaracksolar.com

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Links:
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Re: [RE-wrenches] High current dc combiner vibration

[Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches]

Are we all thinking single phase? Another idea would be to use plastic
enclosures in at least some way to break the magnetic path.  This is a lot
of current, and it will cause magnetic heating where the magnetic loop is
complete.

On Thu, Jun 29, 2023 at 10:19 AM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> All,
>
> I am in the middle of commissioning a 480kwh BP LFP battery bank,
> connected to -10- OB Radian 8kw inverter/chargers.
>
> For the DC combiner I am using midnite 2000 amp combiner boxes, modified
> to mount  class T fuses on the positive bus, for both battery inputs and
> inverter outputs.
>
> For starters, I set the master inverter at a max charge rate of 20 AC
> amps, which equates to a DC charge of about 74 A. All the other inverters
> are automatically set to this charge rate as well.
>
> Turning the chargers on one by one, I started to get quite an audible
> vibration from the combiner box at a combined charge of about 400 to 500 A.
>
> So I took the cover off of the combiner, which was vibrating noticabllly
> by feel. Most of the noise was from the cover not fitting tight. But the
> The box itself is also vibrating by feel.
>
> I took the combined charge up to 640A dc. This level of vibration
> definitely increases with an increased charge rate. And I am surprised
> because after all, we’re not talking AC here we’re talking DC. It almost
> reminds me of a large AC transformer in its behavior. The vibration did not
> seem to be originating at the inverters, then resonating to the combiner.
>
> I can dampen the vibration by adding a few things, but I’m surprised that
> this is happening. All connections in the combiner are tightened properly.
> Ideas?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> *Kirk Herander / **kirkh@vermont.solar *
>
> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC*
>
> *Celebrating our 32st Anniversary 1991-2023!!*
>
> dba Vermont Solar Engineering
>
> 802.863.1202
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
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>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] High current dc combiner vibration

[bob--- via RE-wrenches]

We are talking to Kirk offline about this but the main issue here is 
that the enclosure
for the 2000A combiner is made out of steel which is ferrous.  That 
means that when the
120 Hz ripple current induces into the chassis it can vibrate just like 
a transformer.


Low frequency transformer inverters are have higher ripple than the 
newer HF transformer units

but they have some AC ripple on the battery cables as well.

This combiner is evidently been around for about 8 years and we haven't 
heard any complaints
but maybe others have been silent on this.  I am not surprised at all 
that this happens.


Aluminum chassis has the problem that it is a good conductor so when the 
whole enclosure forms
around the cables, the aluminum can act as a shorted turn in a 
transformer.  It is usually just

lossy but should vibrate much less, if at all.

There are other issues in switching to aluminum that Robin mentions, here:

/"One reason is cost, the other is fasteners, We would need to use press 
nuts instead of snail shells. //
//Snail shells and sheet metal screws don’t do well in aluminum. It is 
too soft. Aluminum would not //

//vibrate from magnetic ripple activity though."

/He has some ideas to make aluminum work so we will try those./
/
Now, plastic could work.   Just has to be real thick.    Darn physics !

Damping can help, like Kirk tried (more can be done here too). Keeping 
the cables
together best as you can inside the chassis may help as well but moving 
and routing

the cables might also reduce the buzzing some more.

That's the latest buzz from here.

🌜boB🌛
    K7IQ

On 6/30/2023 8:45 AM, david quattro via RE-wrenches wrote:
Ferrite cores can be used for the battery cables to pass through to 
reduce common mode current


On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 3:59 AM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


I have -15- sets of 4/0 cable (1 per 32 kwh stack) into the
combiner. They are paired and within .25 " of one another in wire
cable tray for 80% of their respective distance.

The inverter to combiner sets are 2/0 for each respective
inverter. They are paired (not twisted) in cable tray, anywhere
from 10 -20' in length. Maybe I can send some photos, but can't at
present due to computer issues.

I used cable tray because the CT-rated cable is in free air, no
derating of current required. But merely pairing the leads may be
the issue.

I could rearrange the inverter cables and twist the sets, but
doing it from combiner to battery cabinets is impossible.

And I'm wondering if this is really necessary if the customer is
willing to live with the issue. What are the ramifications down
the road? Loosening of connections I suppose would be one.



On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 12:40 AM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches
 wrote:

Kirk
As the batteries come up to charge does the vibration subside.
Are the battery cables spun together "corkscrew like" l have
seen this correct DC noise. I have an 8 on 8 just like your 10
and l have no noise at all, mine come in from each side of the
battery combiner, how is your install configured, how is the
cable length same close or very short to very long some length
is better on FLA's due to resistance under load and charge.
More information may help with a solution.
Fun times solar
NABCEP PV Inspector

On Thu, Jun 29, 2023, 8:19 AM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches
 wrote:

All,

I am in the middle of commissioning a 480kwh BP LFP
battery bank, connected to -10- OB Radian 8kw
inverter/chargers.

For the DC combiner I am using midnite 2000 amp combiner
boxes, modified to mount  class T fuses on the positive
bus, for both battery inputs and inverter outputs.

For starters, I set the master inverter at a max charge
rate of 20 AC amps, which equates to a DC charge of about
74 A. All the other inverters are automatically set to
this charge rate as well.

Turning the chargers on one by one, I started to get quite
an audible vibration from the combiner box at a combined
charge of about 400 to 500 A.

So I took the cover off of the combiner, which was
vibrating noticabllly by feel. Most of the noise was from
the cover not fitting tight. But the The box itself is
also vibrating by feel.

I took the combined charge up to 640A dc. This level of
vibration definitely increases with an increased charge
rate. And I am surprised because after all, we’re not
talking AC here we’re talking DC. It almost reminds me of
a large AC transformer in its behavior. The vibration did
not seem to be originating at the inverters, then
resonating to the combiner

[RE-wrenches] LG Chem RESU10H Battery Question

[David Katz via RE-wrenches]

I have an LG Chem RESU10H Battery that was originally sold with a SunnyStorage 
inverter.  Does anyone know if there is a way to turn on the battery output 
terminals so it can be charged without the inverter. No lights come on when you 
turn on the main switch and the output breaker.  There is a small terminal 
strip for control wires. There is a 12V + and - terminal and a Batt En 
terminal.  Does any one know if powering the Batt En. Terminal turns it on?  I 
am going to try that but I am not sure what voltage that terminal wants to see.
Thanks
David Katz

[cid:image001.png@01D9AB34.2025D660]
David Katz
President
www.tamaracksolar.com
(707) 222-6240 Ext: 105 | (707) 832-7487
dk...@tamaracksolar.com



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Re: [RE-wrenches] High current dc combiner vibration

[david quattro via RE-wrenches]

Ferrite cores can be used for the battery cables to pass through to reduce
common mode current

On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 3:59 AM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> I have -15- sets of 4/0 cable (1 per 32 kwh stack) into the combiner. They
> are paired and within .25 " of one another in wire cable tray for 80% of
> their respective distance.
>
> The inverter to combiner sets are 2/0 for each respective inverter. They
> are paired (not twisted) in cable tray, anywhere from 10 -20' in length.
> Maybe I can send some photos, but can't at present due to computer issues.
>
> I used cable tray because the CT-rated cable is in free air, no derating
> of current required. But merely pairing the leads may be the issue.
>
> I could rearrange the inverter cables and twist the sets, but doing it
> from combiner to battery cabinets is impossible.
>
> And I'm wondering if this is really necessary if the customer is willing
> to live with the issue. What are the ramifications down the road?
> Loosening of connections I suppose would be one.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 12:40 AM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Kirk
>> As the batteries come up to charge does the vibration subside. Are the
>> battery cables spun together "corkscrew like" l have seen this correct DC
>> noise. I have an 8 on 8 just like your 10 and l have no noise at all, mine
>> come in from each side of the battery combiner, how is your install
>> configured, how is the cable length same close or very short to very long
>> some length is better on FLA's due to resistance under load and charge.
>> More information may help with a solution.
>> Fun times solar
>> NABCEP PV Inspector
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 29, 2023, 8:19 AM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> All,
>>>
>>> I am in the middle of commissioning a 480kwh BP LFP battery bank,
>>> connected to -10- OB Radian 8kw inverter/chargers.
>>>
>>> For the DC combiner I am using midnite 2000 amp combiner boxes, modified
>>> to mount  class T fuses on the positive bus, for both battery inputs and
>>> inverter outputs.
>>>
>>> For starters, I set the master inverter at a max charge rate of 20 AC
>>> amps, which equates to a DC charge of about 74 A. All the other inverters
>>> are automatically set to this charge rate as well.
>>>
>>> Turning the chargers on one by one, I started to get quite an audible
>>> vibration from the combiner box at a combined charge of about 400 to 500 A.
>>>
>>> So I took the cover off of the combiner, which was vibrating noticabllly
>>> by feel. Most of the noise was from the cover not fitting tight. But the
>>> The box itself is also vibrating by feel.
>>>
>>> I took the combined charge up to 640A dc. This level of vibration
>>> definitely increases with an increased charge rate. And I am surprised
>>> because after all, we’re not talking AC here we’re talking DC. It almost
>>> reminds me of a large AC transformer in its behavior. The vibration did not
>>> seem to be originating at the inverters, then resonating to the combiner.
>>>
>>> I can dampen the vibration by adding a few things, but I’m surprised
>>> that this is happening. All connections in the combiner are tightened
>>> properly. Ideas?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> *Kirk Herander / **kirkh@vermont.solar *
>>>
>>> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC*
>>>
>>> *Celebrating our 32st Anniversary 1991-2023!!*
>>>
>>> dba Vermont Solar Engineering
>>>
>>> 802.863.1202
>>> ___
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>
>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try
>>> the other:
>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>
>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
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>>
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>> other:
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Re: [RE-wrenches] AC coupling with Solar Edge, pre HD Wave

[Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches]

Sam,
Thanks for pointing me in that direction. It looks like you can update some
of the grid protection settings, although I am not sure if that will allow
for freq-watt control. My LG rep told me to use CA rule 21 grid profile,
but I am not sure if there is something like that on the old A series
inverters.

Cheers,
Dave

On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 10:07 AM Sam Haraldson 
wrote:

> Good Morning, Dave,
>
> Take a look at this pdf and see if the info about setting up "Grid
> Protection" gets you anywhere.  Starting on page three it shows how to make
> the Vmin/max and Fmin/max for screened inverters.  What I can't verify for
> you is whether the A series has the same menu structure as highlighted in
> this document or not.
>
>
> https://knowledge-center.solaredge.com/sites/kc/files/viewing_grid_protection_values.pdf
>
> Cheers,
> Sam
>
>
> [image: OnSite Energy]
> 
>
> SAM HARALDSON
> Field Operations Director
> (406) 551-6135
> 1515 N. Rouse Ave Bozeman, MT 59715
> Locally owned and operated since 2012
> [image: B Corporation]
> 
>


-- 
[image: Logo] 
Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
Owner | Sungineer Solar
p: he | him | his
a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
w: www.sungineersolar.com 
c: (607) 270-0370
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Re: [RE-wrenches] AC coupling with Solar Edge, pre HD Wave

[Sam Haraldson via RE-wrenches]

Good Morning, Dave,

Take a look at this pdf and see if the info about setting up "Grid
Protection" gets you anywhere.  Starting on page three it shows how to make
the Vmin/max and Fmin/max for screened inverters.  What I can't verify for
you is whether the A series has the same menu structure as highlighted in
this document or not.

https://knowledge-center.solaredge.com/sites/kc/files/viewing_grid_protection_values.pdf

Cheers,
Sam


[image: OnSite Energy]


SAM HARALDSON
Field Operations Director
(406) 551-6135
1515 N. Rouse Ave Bozeman, MT 59715
Locally owned and operated since 2012
[image: B Corporation]

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[RE-wrenches] AC coupling with Solar Edge, pre HD Wave

[Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches]

Hi all,

Does anyone know if you can make the SolarEdge inverters (the A series,
before the HD wave inverters) respond to frequency control? I cannot find a
way to update the grid settings, and was wondering if anyone else has AC
coupled these inverters to a non-SolarEdge battery system. If not, its not
a big deal, since these batteries are just for short term backup, so if the
inverter just cycle off and on when the batteries are mostly full, that
will be okay. But it would be nice if I can set up the frequency control.

Cheers,
Dave

-- 
[image: Logo] 
Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
Owner | Sungineer Solar
p: he | him | his
a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
w: www.sungineersolar.com 
c: (607) 270-0370
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Re: [RE-wrenches] High current dc combiner vibration

[Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches]

I have -15- sets of 4/0 cable (1 per 32 kwh stack) into the combiner. They
are paired and within .25 " of one another in wire cable tray for 80% of
their respective distance.

The inverter to combiner sets are 2/0 for each respective inverter. They
are paired (not twisted) in cable tray, anywhere from 10 -20' in length.
Maybe I can send some photos, but can't at present due to computer issues.

I used cable tray because the CT-rated cable is in free air, no derating of
current required. But merely pairing the leads may be the issue.

I could rearrange the inverter cables and twist the sets, but doing it from
combiner to battery cabinets is impossible.

And I'm wondering if this is really necessary if the customer is willing to
live with the issue. What are the ramifications down the road? Loosening of
connections I suppose would be one.



On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 12:40 AM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Kirk
> As the batteries come up to charge does the vibration subside. Are the
> battery cables spun together "corkscrew like" l have seen this correct DC
> noise. I have an 8 on 8 just like your 10 and l have no noise at all, mine
> come in from each side of the battery combiner, how is your install
> configured, how is the cable length same close or very short to very long
> some length is better on FLA's due to resistance under load and charge.
> More information may help with a solution.
> Fun times solar
> NABCEP PV Inspector
>
> On Thu, Jun 29, 2023, 8:19 AM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> All,
>>
>> I am in the middle of commissioning a 480kwh BP LFP battery bank,
>> connected to -10- OB Radian 8kw inverter/chargers.
>>
>> For the DC combiner I am using midnite 2000 amp combiner boxes, modified
>> to mount  class T fuses on the positive bus, for both battery inputs and
>> inverter outputs.
>>
>> For starters, I set the master inverter at a max charge rate of 20 AC
>> amps, which equates to a DC charge of about 74 A. All the other inverters
>> are automatically set to this charge rate as well.
>>
>> Turning the chargers on one by one, I started to get quite an audible
>> vibration from the combiner box at a combined charge of about 400 to 500 A.
>>
>> So I took the cover off of the combiner, which was vibrating noticabllly
>> by feel. Most of the noise was from the cover not fitting tight. But the
>> The box itself is also vibrating by feel.
>>
>> I took the combined charge up to 640A dc. This level of vibration
>> definitely increases with an increased charge rate. And I am surprised
>> because after all, we’re not talking AC here we’re talking DC. It almost
>> reminds me of a large AC transformer in its behavior. The vibration did not
>> seem to be originating at the inverters, then resonating to the combiner.
>>
>> I can dampen the vibration by adding a few things, but I’m surprised that
>> this is happening. All connections in the combiner are tightened properly.
>> Ideas?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *Kirk Herander / **kirkh@vermont.solar *
>>
>> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC*
>>
>> *Celebrating our 32st Anniversary 1991-2023!!*
>>
>> dba Vermont Solar Engineering
>>
>> 802.863.1202
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-- 

*Kirk Herander / **kirkh@vermont.solar *

*Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC*

*Celebrating our 32st Anniversary 1991-2023!!*

dba Vermont Solar Engineering

802.863.1202
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