Re: [RE-wrenches] favortie micro inverters?
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] favortie micro inverters? All, thanks for the info on micros. These will be going on a ground mount so should be easy if there are failures in the future. As far as who will be in business next year, Yogi Berra said " the hardest thing to predict is the future" For that reason I'll buy a few extra just in case. Best, Greg Egan Remote Power Inc. Fairbanks AK ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] favortie micro inverters?
Dave,
Was reading about AP systems DC 3's tonight. Will start reading Enphase
in the morning. Thanks for sharing.
Greg Egan
Remote Power Inc.
Fairbanks, AK
On 9/23/2024 9:07 PM, david quattro wrote:
I used Chilicon on a couple installs, and Enphase is far better.
On Mon, Sep 23, 2024 at 9:05 PM greg egan via RE-wrenches
wrote:
Good intel. I believe their micros are rated to -40C/F. If they
quit
working at that temp it would be okay as long as they start back
up when
if warms up. Normally when it's that cold the sun is pretty
scarce at
this latitude.
Greg Egan
Remote Power Inc.
Fairbanks, AK
On 9/23/2024 7:47 PM, MDElectricSolar wrote:
> Been around forever, good tech support, the products have been
improved and refined, easy to install, good monitoring platform.
Not sure how they would fare in Alaskan winters though…
>
> Maybe an sma installed indoors?
>
> Michael D Nelson
> MD Electric & Solar, Inc.
> 707-684-0064 mobile
> 707-884-1862 office
> www.mdelectricsolar.com <http://www.mdelectricsolar.com>
> www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar
<http://www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar>
>
>
>> On Sep 23, 2024, at 8:41 PM, greg egan
wrote:
>>
>> Michael, thank you. Any particular reason you like them best?
>>
>>
>> Greg Egan
>> Remote Power Inc.
>> Fairbanks, AK
>>
>>> On 9/23/2024 7:29 PM, MDElectricSolar wrote:
>>> Enphase…
>>>
>>> Michael D Nelson
>>> MD Electric & Solar, Inc.
>>> 707-684-0064 mobile
>>> 707-884-1862 office
>>> www.mdelectricsolar.com <http://www.mdelectricsolar.com>
>>> www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar
<http://www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar>
>>>
>>>
>>>>> On Sep 23, 2024, at 7:30 PM, greg egan via RE-wrenches
wrote:
>>>> Esteemed wrenches,
>>>>
>>>> Have a client that is grid connected (not my usual client)
and looking to do solar without back up. Has shading issues so I'm
thinking micros would work best for this application, plus take
care of rapid shut down without needing extra devices/wiring.
Problem is I have not ever installed micros.
>>>>
>>>> Any recommendations on brands /models that have been
reliable? Decent tech support? Customer just wants something that
works and is relatively simple to navigate the online monitoring.
Probably 4-5 kW so not a huge system.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance, I appreciate it!
>>>>
>>>> Greg Egan
>>>> Remote Power Inc.
>>>> Fairbanks, AK
>>>> ___
>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>>
>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>>
>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>>
>>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>>>
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>
>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't
work, try the other:
>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>>>>
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>
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>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>>
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>>>>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] favortie micro inverters?
Good intel. I believe their micros are rated to -40C/F. If they quit working at that temp it would be okay as long as they start back up when if warms up. Normally when it's that cold the sun is pretty scarce at this latitude. Greg Egan Remote Power Inc. Fairbanks, AK On 9/23/2024 7:47 PM, MDElectricSolar wrote: Been around forever, good tech support, the products have been improved and refined, easy to install, good monitoring platform. Not sure how they would fare in Alaskan winters though… Maybe an sma installed indoors? Michael D Nelson MD Electric & Solar, Inc. 707-684-0064 mobile 707-884-1862 office www.mdelectricsolar.com www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar On Sep 23, 2024, at 8:41 PM, greg egan wrote: Michael, thank you. Any particular reason you like them best? Greg Egan Remote Power Inc. Fairbanks, AK On 9/23/2024 7:29 PM, MDElectricSolar wrote: Enphase… Michael D Nelson MD Electric & Solar, Inc. 707-684-0064 mobile 707-884-1862 office www.mdelectricsolar.com www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar On Sep 23, 2024, at 7:30 PM, greg egan via RE-wrenches wrote: Esteemed wrenches, Have a client that is grid connected (not my usual client) and looking to do solar without back up. Has shading issues so I'm thinking micros would work best for this application, plus take care of rapid shut down without needing extra devices/wiring. Problem is I have not ever installed micros. Any recommendations on brands /models that have been reliable? Decent tech support? Customer just wants something that works and is relatively simple to navigate the online monitoring. Probably 4-5 kW so not a huge system. Thanks in advance, I appreciate it! Greg Egan Remote Power Inc. Fairbanks, AK ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] favortie micro inverters?
Michael, thank you. Any particular reason you like them best? Greg Egan Remote Power Inc. Fairbanks, AK On 9/23/2024 7:29 PM, MDElectricSolar wrote: Enphase… Michael D Nelson MD Electric & Solar, Inc. 707-684-0064 mobile 707-884-1862 office www.mdelectricsolar.com www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar On Sep 23, 2024, at 7:30 PM, greg egan via RE-wrenches wrote: Esteemed wrenches, Have a client that is grid connected (not my usual client) and looking to do solar without back up. Has shading issues so I'm thinking micros would work best for this application, plus take care of rapid shut down without needing extra devices/wiring. Problem is I have not ever installed micros. Any recommendations on brands /models that have been reliable? Decent tech support? Customer just wants something that works and is relatively simple to navigate the online monitoring. Probably 4-5 kW so not a huge system. Thanks in advance, I appreciate it! Greg Egan Remote Power Inc. Fairbanks, AK ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] favortie micro inverters?
Esteemed wrenches, Have a client that is grid connected (not my usual client) and looking to do solar without back up. Has shading issues so I'm thinking micros would work best for this application, plus take care of rapid shut down without needing extra devices/wiring. Problem is I have not ever installed micros. Any recommendations on brands /models that have been reliable? Decent tech support? Customer just wants something that works and is relatively simple to navigate the online monitoring. Probably 4-5 kW so not a huge system. Thanks in advance, I appreciate it! Greg Egan Remote Power Inc. Fairbanks, AK ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Dual battery bank switch for 48 VDC system
William, thanks for the reply. In the scenario I'm thinking we use the Blue Seas #3002 switch which has a battery bank A, bank B or A & B option. Under normal circumstances he has it set to A&B. When he wants to eq / condition his Concorde PVX series AGM's he switches to bank A and begins charging. When the bank is fully charged he switches to B. The switch is make before break so the lights stay on. Bank A sits there fully charged with no load. Loses less than .5% /month at 25C. Next day he charges Bank B fully and then flips the switch to A + B and marks on his calendar to do this again in 2 months. This site is mostly charged with generator in winter (Fairbanks AK). Exclusively with PV in spring/summer. Customer is smart. Understands what's involved. Kind of an ideal customer in that he figures out most things by reading the manuals and when he has a question, he calls or emails me. I'm guessing now that I've told you more you no longer think he'd need to manage the system hourly. Or am I missing something? Thank you, Greg Egan Remote Power Inc. Greg: Let me say I think the idea is generally bad. Your client would need to be actively involved managing this system on an hour by hour basis or both battery banks are likely to be ruined. If you want to switch between batteries, unless both battery arrays are at a very similar voltage (+/- 0.5 volts) you should not parallel them. In that scenario you would need to shut down the inverter(s), switch battery banks, then restart the inverter. A breaker interlock may be in order to prevent bad things from happening. Like I said, a bad idea. If you have too much battery to match the PV capabilities you need to reduce the battery bank capacity. If this system includes valid BOS components, and you still want to experiment, integrate within that system by adding a battery breaker. If it does not have a decent BOS (Outback Flexware, Midnite DC breaker panel, for example) that is a problem in itself. Add the BOS. The PV charge needs to have either two battery breakers or be wired on the inverter side of the battery breaker, an arrangement that I do not recommend. Did I mention I think this is a bad idea? William Miller ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Dual battery bank switch for 48 VDC system
Jay, the Blue Seas 3002 states it's "make before break" So I'm assuming the lights don't go out when you make the switch. Anyway, thanks for the Midnite option. I'll take a look, Greg On 6/15/2024 9:49 AM, Jay wrote: Hi Greg How about this midnite box midnitesolar.com <https://www.midnitesolar.com/productPhoto.php?product_ID=326&productCat_ID=8&sortOrder=14&act=p> <https://www.midnitesolar.com/productPhoto.php?product_ID=326&productCat_ID=8&sortOrder=14&act=p> <https://www.midnitesolar.com/productPhoto.php?product_ID=326&productCat_ID=8&sortOrder=14&act=p> Personally what I don’t like about single switch A or B is there is an off time. With the midnite box, you switch both on, and turn the off the one you want. That way there is never an off time. Just a thought. Jay On Jun 15, 2024, at 11:19 AM, greg egan via RE-wrenches wrote: Wrenches, I have a customer who has a 2 strings of AGM's @ 48 VDC that we want to split so we can charge them at decent charge rate. Adding more PV and/or larger generator and inverter is cost prohibitive. I've seen Blue Seas (#3002) 4 position 500 amp switches that are rated for 32VDC. Max he could possibly pull at once with his system is less than 100 amps. I would assume the Blue Seas 3002 would work and I'd probably use it in my garage, but I'm not comfortable recommending it to a customer. Any suggestions on a 60 VDC rated unit that could handle say 150 amps and 4/0 cables? Maybe I'm being too cautious since the max load would be < 6KW and the 3002 is rated for 16kW load (32 VDC /500A)? Thoughts? Thank you, Greg Egan Remote Power Inc. Fairbanks, AK ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Dual battery bank switch for 48 VDC system
Wrenches, I have a customer who has a 2 strings of AGM's @ 48 VDC that we want to split so we can charge them at decent charge rate. Adding more PV and/or larger generator and inverter is cost prohibitive. I've seen Blue Seas (#3002) 4 position 500 amp switches that are rated for 32VDC. Max he could possibly pull at once with his system is less than 100 amps. I would assume the Blue Seas 3002 would work and I'd probably use it in my garage, but I'm not comfortable recommending it to a customer. Any suggestions on a 60 VDC rated unit that could handle say 150 amps and 4/0 cables? Maybe I'm being too cautious since the max load would be < 6KW and the 3002 is rated for 16kW load (32 VDC /500A)? Thoughts? Thank you, Greg Egan Remote Power Inc. Fairbanks, AK ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Schneider SCP / MPPT 80 600 / XW+ / Gateway questions
Friends, I'm currently onsite with a system. Just replaced 4 XW + 6848's with 4 XW Pros. Updated the Gateway to rev. 1.17 and the Pros to 2.04. Have some questions/observations so far. System: Off Grid with 4 XW Pros, 18 MPPT 80 600s, 2 SCPs, 1 Gateway, 1 Battery Monitor, 1 AGS. 3000 ahr of NiFe batteries. 36 kW Kubota Genset. I tried using the Inverter SCP to program settings on the new inverters and it took everything but when I checked on InsightLocal the settings had not changed. They were all still default so I had to go through it again one at a time through insightlocal. I'm guessing the SCP no longer works for programming with the Gateway? Can anyone confirm? Programming used to work through the SCP with the old XW+ inverters and firmware. Tried using the Solar SCP to change settings on the charge controls but had to use insight local to change each individually. Used to be able to use the "copy from" function which was a real time saver. Wondering if anyone else has run into the same problem, or if it works for them, what am I missing? Is there a cool way to change one setting with insightlocal and get it to change the other 17? Observations: - looking at the CC's via insightlocal, under configuration -> advanced ->controls - I set all chargers "enabled" but the next day or so they all go to "disabled". They all still work though. Doesn't seem to affect operations. under configuration -> advanced ->charger settings - I have the first CC set to "primary" and the rest to secondary. No idea if that's right or not. seems to work. Options are "stand-alone, primary, secondary and echo". I could not find definitions in the manual on them. - looking at the XW Pros via insight local, under configuration -> advanced ->controls -> Backup Mode - I disabled BAckup mode since I'm not backing up the grid. _System shut down immediately._ Backup mode must be enabled when you're off grid. Thanks in advance : ) Greg Egan Remote Power Inc Fairbanks, AK ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Fronius Primo 3.8 with state 573 error code
Bill, I've been in touch with Fronius on this. It is listed as a "low temp" error code. I got sick and the inverter/system is generating power as it should now so I'm just now following up. The Primo 3.8 has been running for 5 years and I'm sure has seen some cold temps but it was ~ 0F the day I was out there and saw the STATE 573 error code. I've been in touch with Fronius Tech support. When they get back with me with an explanation I'll post it here. The Primo is rated to run at -40F. Fairbanks used to see -40 in low lying areas a few weeks a year (in the 70's) but seldom these days. This install is in the hills. They usually are 10+ degrees warmer than town. Anyway, they _could have_ experienced -40 a time or 2 in the last 5 years but not this year for sure. No reason it shouldn't run at -40 imo. That's why I read the spec sheets before installing inverters outdoors. Thanks, Greg Greg, My Fronius manual goes up to a code 517 but no "higher". I assume you're talking about an "IG". The last Ph # I used for them was 810-220-4414. Bill Feather River Solar Electric Bill Battagin, Owner 4291 Nelson St.(shipping) 5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS) Taylorsville, CA 95983 530.284.1925 Office/ 530.258.1641 Cell CA Lic 874049 Solar powered since 1982 On 3/14/2023 8:11 PM, greg egan via RE-wrenches wrote: Wrenches, I'm out of town and trying to help a customer with a STATE 573 error on a Fronius 3.8 kW inverter installed in 2017. I looked on line and could find State codes but no "573". Customer sent me a photo of the screen and it's definitely 573 so not a typo. If anyone has run into this before and can provide any guidance that would be great. Also if you have a current phone # for Fronius Tech support that wouldn't hurt either. All the best, Greg Egan Remote Power Inc. Fairbanks, AK ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] RE-wrenches] replace part of rolls battery bank
Danny, My experience is if you are careful and use _equal length conductors_ for all 3 strings you can get good results. The main problem I have with 3 strings of 6 V cells @ 48 vdc is leaving the customer with 72 cells to check and fill. That's a lot of work if you don't have a watering system. I totally get why you'd want to give them 2 strings in case they lose a battery or 2. Most of my off grid customers live quite a ways from the battery store and it's not uncommon for it to take a month to get replacements - during the best of times. Another option I've done is give them a string of 25 - 2V cells for a 48V system. You just set the charging parameters accordingly and go. That way if they lose a cell or two, the remaining battery bank should be able to keep them limping along until the replacement battery(s) show up. Need to check and _make sure_ your charge controller and inverter can charge at the slightly higher V but usually that's not a problem. Best, Greg Egan Remote Power Inc. g...@remotepowerinc.com Message: 1 Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2023 20:45:44 + From: Daniel Young To:"offgridso...@sti.net" , RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] replace part of rolls battery bank Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Thanks all for the advice. I figured it was not worth trying on a different battery brand. I honestly needed to be able to tell them I researched it and asked my peers. The client really uses the 3 x strings they have and did not really want to go down to 3. They are currently choosing to get the two Rolls under the prorated warranty, and hopes to get another 2 useful years out of the bank before planning to replace. Already prepared him on the cost of the equivalent Li+ at todays prices. So he knows roughly where he is heading. Side note: I am in the camp of trying for 2 x strings when possible (agree that 3 x strings is the absolute limit, and not the best option), simply because if a single cell goes bad, I don?t want a client with essentially nothing available until we can get a replacement and get on site. With 2 strings, they can make due at least. That?ll go out the window with Lithium though. Looking at Fortress Power for the next battery bank for this client. But we will see what changes in the market by the time it?s needed. With Regards, -- Danny Young NABCEP PV Installation Professional #031508-90 Engineering Team Lead Solar Energy Solutions Lexington | Louisville | Bloomington | Cincinnati | Evansville | Indianapolis 513-448-5176 (mobile) 877-312-7456 (Main Office) da...@sesre.com<mailto:da...@sesre.com> ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Fronius Primo 3.8 with State 573 error code
Wrenches, I'm out of town and trying to help a customer with a STATE 573 error on a Fronius 3.8 kW inverter installed in 2017. I looked on line and could find State codes but no "573". Customer sent me a photo of the screen and it's definitely 573 so not a typo. If anyone has run into this before and can provide any guidance that would be great. Also if you have a current phone # for Fronius Tech support that wouldn't hurt either. All the best, Greg Egan Remote Power Inc. Fairbanks, AK ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 4 XW+ 6848 with AC Coupling problem
Dave and Maverick, Thanks for the info. Dave, - Grid support is off. Was never on. - inverters were purchased in Sep 2019. Installed and turned off in Sep 2020. Finishing installation now. - they worked a few days ago. sometimes they sell to each other, sometimes they don't. Last I looked they were behaving. - all named differently - are they really no longer supported? if so it begs the question, how long will anything SE sells be supported? Maverick, - only one master - I may go adding them one at a time if they start selling to each other again. It MAY be that when I lay the SCP down sometimes I'm laying it too close to the Batt cables and maybe there's some noise generated on the line? who knows. Since you like the config tool, do you know how to set the voltages so they're all the same? It seems like you're supposed to make the inverter you want to adjust the output voltage on, you're supposed to make that inverter the master. When I try (even with all the other inverters off) the inverter gives me a fault and shuts off. I forget the F- number but it's like a naming conflict fault of some sort. I'm thinking of trying to - kill power to all the inverters. - erase anything in the SCP if I can figure out how. - disconnect all CAT 5 cables from the inverters except the cable to the SCP and the end plug for the one I'm working on. I'm hoping that MAYBE that will allow me to get the voltages within .5 of each other per the manual. I don't understand why that should matter since they all are connected with AC SYNC cables but it might be the problem. Who knows? I've run into another problem fwiw. We're trying to charge a NiFe battery bank at 66 VDC. The SCP and the inverters show a hi batt voltage warning sometimes and even go in to fault sometimes. That's supposed to happen at 68VDC. I've never seen that on my Fluke 187 or on the SCP. It's tough enough to get it to 66v. I may have seen it @ 66.5 but never 68. Does anyone know what the real programmed HBCO is for these inverters because it's definitely not 68. Just wondering if anyone else has found a solution. Inverters shutting on HBCO is not a really cool feature. On the 80/600 Charge controllers I've gotten a weird error, something like HiFastOCErr. It's supposed to be when the CC is putting out over 140 amps DC for more than 5 seconds. It stops the CC from charging which is also not a cool feature. No way of course it's putting out 140 amps or even close. Anyone know what this really means? I'm guessing that it means the CC is putting out more than 4800 watts. I set the Percent Charge to 90% just to see if that helps. 72 amps X 66 VDC is just under 4800 so we'll see if it works. I'll try to make a post of all the errors and ommisions I find on the XW+ and Connext gear I'm working on, especially if I figure out how the gear actually works and what the error/fault/warnings really mean. Thanks very much for writing, I really appreciate it. Sorry for the slow response to comments today - comm issues. Greg Egan Remote Power Inc. From: greg egan To: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] 4 XW+ 6848 with AC Coupling problem The XW+ inverters are selling to each other.? XW+'s are disconnected from the load and from generator input.? System is off grid.? When I switch the ATS the inverters are supposed to pick up the load.? ~ 12 kW, maybe 18 worst case.? They are selling to each other and when I make the switch the lights flicker and the inverters go off, then they try to go on, and go off, etc. Sync cables are hooked up.? 4 XW+ and 1 SCP on one xanbus network. No gateway hooked up at this time.? PV will be on it's own Xbus network.? Not planning on using the Gateway if I can help it. Thanks for any light you can shed on this.? Not sure why Schneider would ever want their inverters to sell to each other -- Message: 4 Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2021 13:30:13 -0700 From: Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar To: "RE-wrenches" Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 4 XW+ 6848 with AC Coupling problem Message-ID: <03332e63e95983efcc841f3a8a579ed4@127.0.0.1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" If they are selling you need to verify that grid support is off!. There are so many settings that interact. By default it was. I will ask, these are old units right? Did they ever work right? Is the firmware the same on all and do they have different ID numbers for the network? You may try going back to defaults. There really is not enough info in your post to go further. XW+ are out of support for US split phase and replaced with XWP about a year back. How old are they? If it were me, I would make sure that 2 of the units work correctly first. Take all other xw's off xanbus/Sync and
[RE-wrenches] 4 XW+ 6848 with AC Coupling problem
Wrenches, I'm getting ready to go outside the building and shoot myself. AC Coupling is turned off. The XW+ inverters are selling to each other. XW+'s are disconnected from the load and from generator input. System is off grid. When I switch the ATS the inverters are supposed to pick up the load. ~ 12 kW, maybe 18 worst case. They are selling to each other and when I make the switch the lights flicker and the inverters go off, then they try to go on, and go off, etc. Sync cables are hooked up. 4 XW+ and 1 SCP on one xanbus network. No gateway hooked up at this time. PV will be on it's own Xbus network. Not planning on using the Gateway if I can help it. Thanks for any light you can shed on this. Not sure why Schneider would ever want their inverters to sell to each other especially with AC Coupling OFF. Arrgh. Greg Egan Remote Power Inc. ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Conext Configuration Tool password needed
Wrenches, The password for the Schneider Configuration tool is "xantrex" all lower case. This information was provided by Pieter Hubner of Off-Grid Enterprises. I tried it and it works! All the best, Greg Egan Remote Power Inc. ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Conext Configuration Tool password needed
Esteemed Wrenches, Working on a system with 4 XW+ inverters. Using a conext config tool I used a few years ago. I am trying to set the AC output voltages on the inverters so they were within .5 VAC per the manual. When you try to configure the AC output It gives you a warning and requires a password. I have tried the password that worked with the Gateway and guessed at many others but no luck. I did a word search for "password" in all the schneider O & M manuals that had anything remotely to do with inverters, config tool, multi inverter systems etc. Anyone know the secret handshake? If I made one years ago and no longer have it does anyone know how I can reset it? Also wondering if anyone is using the new combox successfully with XW+ inverters? Looks like Schneider discontinued the XW+ line as well as the original combox. I've heard good things about the combox and would like to try out the new version if it's compatible. Thanks in advance, I appreciate it! Greg Egan Remote Power Inc. Fairbanks, AK ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] how to prevent selling to grid with grid tie inverter
Wrenches, I've got a small system using SolarEdge inverter (4 kW) that is supposed to go in to a small town that does not allow selling power to the grid. That may change but that is how it stands now. The customer wants to use the power that is generated but can not sell or even give excess power away. Do any of you have any experience setting up a grid tie no battery system so that it can not sell to the grid under any circumstances? Just wondering before I dig any deeper if there's an obvious solution I'm missing. Thanks, Greg Egan Remote Power Inc. ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] White wire for DC- after ground fault breaker
Jim, Hope all is well with you and yours. on white wires in circuits, In 3 ph. circuits you can get killed breaking into a neutral that's common to other circuits. One example, working on 277 lighting, you throw the breaker or light switch on the one circuit you're working so the hot isn't hot anymore. It's standard practice for 3 ph. lighting ckts to share a neutral. The white wire in your ckt is wire nutted in the j-box up in the ceiling to the common neutrals. Those neutrals are hot to ground when their respective ckts are hot and they're carrying current. Just thought it was worth mentioning on this list that there's no hard fast rule that all white wires are dead. It depends on the ckt. Best, Greg Egan Remote Power Inc. Message: 11 Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2020 15:17:19 -0500 From: James Jarvis To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] White wire for DC- after ground fault breaker Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hello Wrenches, I have an off-grid install where I was recently red-tagged by the state inspector. System is 24 volt with battery, Magnum inverters, some Magnum charge controllers, and a Morningstar charge controller. It is permitted under NEC 2017. One of the inspectors issues was that my DC- conductors to the array / rapid shut down box are black color. He wants them to be white because he says they are solidly grounded. I reason that they are only solidly grounded when they are solidly grounded. As soon as the ground fault protection breaker opens, they are floating at array voltage. I think it is misleading and unsafe to have a white conductor that can have hundreds of volts of potential on it when a breaker trips. I haven't dug into the code yet. I'm just working on the logic that one of my mentors put into me which is white wires better not have voltage potential on them. "That's the sort of sh*t that kills electricians" is what he repeatedly said ... and it's stuck with me. Thoughts? I'm backed into the corner with the state, so I will be changing them to white even if it is unsafe ... unless I have some code backing. Changing the wires to white will get interesting up on the roof. I wonder if they want me to cut off the black MC on the modules and replace them with white? This is mostly just an exercise in the State of Minnesota only wanting to know about and allow micro inverters. They brought in a state inspector from three hours away who kept repeating that he was a "highly qualified individual", but was unable to identify or recognize a charge controller. He kept referring to the charge controllers as inverters. Thanks, -James Jarvis APRS World, LLC +1-507-454-2727 http://www.aprsworld.com/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL:<http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20200612/5cd338c8/attachment-0001.html> ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Real world production data for bifacials?
Wrenches, good health to you and your loved ones. I have a client that thinks he wants bifacial modules since his site is in the Alaskan arctic and they have snow a significant amount of the year. I've been installing standard modules on racks that can be set at 90 deg in the fall and set back to ~lat -15deg in the spring. They are snow free in the spring when it's clear and cold and they definitely make more power than the ones I see siting with snow on them all year. A 6.2 kW array will put out 5.8kW AC under perfect conditions (90 deg tilt, solar noon, clear sky, cold etc.) Anyway, I browsed the archives and in general looks like they require special racking , clamps and raise the price significantly. Have any of you installed some and seen increased power production in snow country and if so has it made up for the extra cost, extra labor etc.? Have the modules been reliable? I'm looking for data on installed systems and maybe recommendations on where I can get price and availability on some so I can help my customer make an informed decision. All the best, Greg Egan Remote Power Inc. ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] RV PV System...Las Vegas
All - sorry for posting a "lead" on this list the other day. From the RE-Wrench list rules and etiquette: /*Please do not post leads on the Wrenches List *// //1. If you get a lead you cannot handle, then either send it directly to someone you think will be interested (but not the list) or, // //2. Send them a piece of email giving them reference to find someone else, like www.nabcep.org web site and www.homepower.com/inbiz.htm // //3. It is OK to post leads on the other list, RE-Markets, if you are a member. / Michael was good enough to see my post and remind me of this. Thanks again Michael! : ) Greg Egan Remote Power Inc. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] RV PV System for friends in Las Vegas
Fellow Wrenches, We have some friends in LV that could use a local expert to help them add PV and an inverter to an older Road Trek van. They know what their loads are and are a the decision making stage. If you are in their area and up for a small job working for good people contact me off list. Best, Greg Egan Remote Power Inc. g...@remotepowerinc.com Thanks!! ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] XW 600 VDC Controller
Re: XW 600 VDC Controller: Friends, Sure appreciate the feedback over the last 2 days! I've been away from the computer but able to read on my phone. I wound up ordering a Classic 250 which will allow for running strings of 5 LG250'S and still keep the VOC within spec of the controller when it's chilly out. I'd like to try an XW 600 in the future but after considering the travel distance to this customer (far), added cost of the XW, cost benefit of smaller wire and my experience with Classic 150's and 200's in the past (all good) I went for the C250. Thanks for the awesome support! Greg Egan NABCEP Certified PV Installer, Licensed Journeyman Electrician Remote Power Inc. g...@remotepowerinc.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] XW 600 VDC Controller?
Friends, Have a customer that needs to put the array 420' from the batteries. Have never really wanted to wire an off grid customer for hi voltage DC but the price difference on that much copper has me considering it. Anyone used the XW-MPPT 80-600 and been happy with it? I did a search of the archive and only found 1 post with my keywords in it. Thanks again, Greg Egan NABCEP Certified PV Installer, Licensed Journeyman Electrician Remote Power Inc. g...@remotepowerinc.com -- Untitled Document <http://www.remotepowerinc.com> ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] size of Surrette AGM S-460 Stud Terminals?
Friends, Thanks for the responses. Steve H. has got an email into Surrette to confirm exactly what terminal they have/what size ring connector I need on my cables. I'll post here what we find out. Best, Greg Egan ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] size of Surrette AGM S-460 Stud Terminals?
Wrenches, I can find a pdf on Surrette's site and many other sites with the specs on the S6-460 AGM but the part showing the size of the terminals is unreadable. It's either 5/16th or 3/8" or some metric equivalent. If anyone knows exactly what it is - I'd like to know. I honestly don't think the info is available unless it's in some restricted area of the Surrette site. Thanks! Greg Egan Nabcep PV Installer Certified Journeyman Electrician Remote Power Inc. -- Untitled Document ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Husqvarna 5500 and VFX3524 Compatibility question
Todd, Dan & Ray and all, Thanks for the answers on my question. Sorry for my slowness getting back. The generator has a 30 amp 240 V twist lock connection we're using for power to the inverter - first through a PSX 240 xfmr. I've spoken to the customer about adjusting the charging amperage down and seeing if that makes a difference. I also gave him an electric heater (120 v) that has a low 900W and high 1300 W setting. I'm hoping that by adding the resistive load while battery charging the genny will be able to run with a larger charging load and he won't have to run it as long. Normally I don't recommend adding electric heat to an off grid home but he only uses his genny in the winter. In the spring he gets enough sun that the PV can stay ahead of the load until mid fall. Thankfully when I brought up this idea he said he'd be happy to have some extra heat - we're having a REAL winter this year. I told him to call me if he still has problems and I'll come out (he's a ways out of town). If I do I'll bring the Fluke 87 and see if I can learn anything from it. Dan, that's the first I've heard of a Honda 3000i not working with an Outback inverter. I hope it was a fluke (no pun intended). Anyone else had issues with the Honda i line of gensets and inverters? Thanks again, -- Untitled Document Greg Egan ph (907)457-4299 fx (907)457-4290 www.remotepowerinc.com <http://www.remotepowerinc.com> ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 4, Issue 298
Wrenches, My experience is that the Rolls are a very good battery, as are the Hups. I like single strings for a couple reasons. 1) less connections and less likely that part of the bank will be maintained at a higher or lower voltage than the rest due to differences in resistance in string interconnection cables. 2) less cells for the customer to care for. Greg's law: The higher the number of cells to water, check sp.gr., maintain clean tight connections on, etc. the higher the probability of early battery death from neglect (involuntary manslaughter) by the customer. Greg Egan Remote Power Inc. *** ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 4, Issue 135
Doug & Todd, We install here in Fairbanks, AK and I'm a big believer in a really steep tilt angle. 85 degrees or more. One reason is that it's got to be steep enough to shed snow. If you're array is under snow you're not going to get much performance if any. Second is we get most of our sunshine in the springtime. We get more hours of possible sunshine in the summer but as a rule summers are cloudier, so if you miss out on the spring sun you lose a lot. Third is during snow season you definitely get some benefit from snow reflection. I personally have seen a 10% boost but some have told me they've seen higher. We have some pretty cold temperatures so even if it's sunny out it can be well below 0. Our snow doesn't melt off the panels fast like it must in some warmer climes. I like pole mounts as well because they're easy to clean, easy to adjust and will never cause a roof to leak. Of course there are places where they just don't fit for one reason or another. If you have a pole mount with plenty of room under it for snow (or someone who's good with a snow shovel), you can do really well in the winter with snow reflection and then adjust as needed for the summer months. If you're going to put something high on a pole you want to make sure your foundation and the pole can handle the extra stress. Using a structural engineer is better than guesting and you'll sleep a lot better during wind storms. Last, I don't know how they stand up to heavy loads but Sharp NU-U240F1 (240 watt panel) has two beams that kind of separates the panel in to 3rds. This should make it stronger since structurally it's closer to 3 - 80 watt modules than one 240 watt panel Best, Greg Egan NABCEP Certified PV Remote Power Inc. Fairbanks, AK Hi Doug, I had a customer's roof mount system break modules this spring after yet another record Mount Shasta snow event. This one brought 8' in 10 days. The situation here was 15 Evergreen 190 watt modules (rated for 80#/sq ft), on a DP&W power rail mount, on a 6/12 pitch, comp roof. Ice dams were not removed so the bottom edge of 5 module's frames were peeled off the glass... without the frame's support, 2 of the module's glass broke. Evergreen did not warranty the damage. From Evergreen: "The observed damage is attributable to weather related effects, not manufacturing or workmanship issues with the panels. You are correct, we do guarantee our panels for up to 80 pounds / sq. ft. However, that is for a uniform load. The installation manual, page 3 (attached), has the following warning: The maximum permissible loads apply to uniformly distributed wind or snow loading. Care should be taken to avoid mounting panels in areas that are prone to drifting snow, icicle and/or ice dam formation." I have come to the conclusion that the only real way to mount PV modules in heavy snow country is on a pole mount with a steep winter angle and enough ground clearance (minimum 6' from the bottom edge of the array to the ground) to allow the snow to keep sliding off the array all winter. A roof mount might still work, but it would need to be greater than ~8/12 pitch (not so good for summer production) and accessible to manual snow removal in those critical situations like we had here a couple of weeks ago. One of my most difficult challenges is trying to design my installations to mitigate winter snow damage. I realize very few list members have to deal with these kinds of severe conditions, but any feedback on my empirical conclusions would be welcome. Todd Wrenches, Can anyone recommend a panel that is built with more strength or ability to handle greater load. I am installing on a shallow pitched roof and am concerned about snow build up in this particular location. I know you guys out in the Sierra's get a lot more snow than we do. What modules are up to the challenge? Are there any new military spec modules like the old MSX 120's? Any experience or guidance is appreciated. Doug Wells Morrisville, VT 05661 NABCEP Certified PV Vermont Solar Partner The Solar Specialists www.thesolarspecialists.com 802-498-5856 ___ ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Solar Solutions and Distribution, LLC?
All Curious if anyone has had any dealings with this company? They're located in Denver. Interested in the good, bad and ugly. If you don't want to announce it to the world feel free to contact me off list. g...@remotepowerinc.com Thanks! Greg Egan Remote Power Inc. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Nabcep Stamp
Bill & Peter, Okay, if I have a PE Stamp that means I went to school and worked under a mentor for an amount of time to qualify for the PE exam. Passed the exam and I got my stamp. If I have NABCEP certification that means I worked installing solar electric systems (in my case) for an amount of time and /or went to school to qualify for the NABCEP exam and passed the test. I'm having a hard time seeing the difference here. If NABCEP provided a stamp to it's members that they could use to stamp drawings all it would show is that someone who passed the NABCEP exam reviewed the design and hung his or her name on the job. I don't see where NABCEP would be responsible for the design anymore than the PE board or whoever is in charge of giving out PE stamps would be culpable in a case of a bad design by a PE. I think NABCEP should provide a stamp with the certificated member's # on it. All it would do is identify them as a NABCEP member. My understanding is that NABCEP was formed to help the general public distinguish between fly by nights and real RE professionals. A stamp would help do that. If the city of xyz decides that they've seen a lot of good work from NABCEP members and that NABCEP certification is good enough for them, what's wrong with that? Greg Egan Remote Power Inc. NABCEP PV Installer ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] PV voltage at Isc
Ken, Dan, boB and Peter and all, Thanks for your thoughtful answers. I think if we put superconductors in outer space aside we know our answer. Of course knowing doesn't help to sell even one more wire nut! :) Hope all your teams win the superbowl today! All the best, Greg Egan Remote Power Inc. Fairbanks, AK ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] PV voltage at Isc
Fellow Scientists, I got in a discussion with a wrench the other day. He is under the impression that when a PV module is at short circuit current there is no voltage. My understanding of electricity is that if there's no voltage there's no current because current needs voltage in order to flow. I'm seeing it as a difference in potential, voltage that is. If there's no difference in potential I don't understand why current would flow. I googled it and the few links I checked out were on his side - zero voltage at Isc. All this is of course irrelevant to the business of installing PV so if you don't care I don't blame you. So I still think that if you a precise enough meter that if you stuck the test leads into the cables sticking out of the back of a shorted PV module that you'd read some small voltage that was approaching zero. Any explanation of why I am right or wrong in plain English (I'm not really a scientist) would be welcome. All the best, Greg Egan Remote Power Inc. Fairbanks, AK re-wrenches-requ...@lists.re-wrenches.org wrote: Send RE-wrenches mailing list submissions to re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to re-wrenches-requ...@lists.re-wrenches.org You can reach the person managing the list at re-wrenches-ow...@lists.re-wrenches.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of RE-wrenches digest..." When responding to posts within the Digest, be sure to restore the Subject: line to the original, and please edit out any extraneous lines from the quoted message. Today's Topics: 1. Re: PV Encapsulant Quality (Eric Thomas) 2. I Need a Sharp SunVista Manual (Brian Sipp) 3. Re: I Need a Sharp SunVista Manual (Jeff Irish) 4. Re: I Need a Sharp SunVista Manual (Brian Sipp) 5. Re: PV Encapsulant Quality (Jesse Dahl) 6. Re: Matching modules into Xantrex GT (Allan Sindelar) -- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 10:33:27 -0800 From: Eric Thomas To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] PV Encapsulant Quality Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Here is a great report that goes over advanced life cycle testing of modules and their reasons for failure. http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy11osti/47755.pdf . It is a recent study and there is some good info regarding encapsulents. I can tell you that the high ranker on the results chart is the Silicon Energy Cascade module. With its glass on glass encapsulent and integrated wireway, its the most robust module I've ever seen. We installed the largest WA residential system utilizing these modules in Dec of last year. They are nice to work with...not without their challenges of course, but as far as warranty..I think they will last the test of time. Eric Thomas Solar Epiphany (206)919-3014 www.solarepiphany.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20110204/799c5d79/attachment.html> -- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 13:21:09 -0800 From: "Brian Sipp" To: "'RE-wrenches'" Subject: [RE-wrenches] I Need a Sharp SunVista Manual Message-ID: <8B7DB7ABA13B4A05A1E69FCEA166F07B@FirstSource> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I just got off the phone with the worlds worst customer (dis)service rep. at Sharp. It really calls into question whether I want to sell any more of Sharp modules, if this is how they treat their past customers. Does anyone have a PDF of the Sharp SunVista manual? The only thing I find online, or Sharp would provide, is a 2 page cut sheet. Brian M. Sipp First Source Solar Systems <http://www.firstsourcesolar.com/> www.FirstSourceSolar.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20110204/5c558a63/attachment-0001.htm> -- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 16:31:41 -0500 From: "Jeff Irish" To: "RE-wrenches" Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] I Need a Sharp SunVista Manual Message-ID: <86FA2C8AA80F3C49AE21B7EC7BD559B8798995@HVCE-SERVER.hvcegroup.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Brian, I have one but it's a big file and I don't want to overload everyone's mailboxes. Email me off-line at j...@hvce.com Jeff Irish Hudson Valley Clean Energy and Adirondack Solar
[RE-wrenches] checking grid for power quality
Wrenches, I have a client with a SMA 700 inverter set up as a windy boy. It's in a remote Alaskan village powered by diesel generation. I haven't been to the site but judging by the size of the community the utility load probably varies between 50 and 300 kW depending on time of day/season - point being it's not trying to backfeed a tiny genset. The turbine is not producing the power that would be expected with the wind resource they have. I'd like to log some V and Hz data and see what the grid is doing up there. Any suggestions on sensors and/or techniques for getting this data? They already have a CR1000 on site they're using to see how the home is performing and how much power is being produced by the wind and solar systems so I'm assuming that the sensors could be read by the existing logger and the data fed to the web for download. Thanks for all you do, Greg Egan Remote Power Inc. Fairbanks AK NABCEP certified PV Installer and licensed Electrician ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] required inverter and system testing
Esteemed Wrenches, I'm in the process of bidding a small government job. They're requiring the following tests. I was wondering if any of you have ever run across this before and if so how you went about it. /- Inspect inverters according to requirements in NETA Acceptance Testing Specifications. - Test the PV system under prime solar design conditions to validate system power performance rating.Use instruments calibrated within the previous six months according to NIST standards. /(not easy since the site they've chosen will shade some of the array all the time. I should be able to just explain this to them) / - Simulate malfunctions, including ground faults, to verify protective device operation. /(I would create a GF and then replace the fuse for this test) / - Test anti-islanding shutdown function due to normal utility source failure, time delay and automatic restart after utility power restoration. /(this is an easy one) / - Test and record the total harmonic distortion (THD) content of output current at 25, 50, and 100 percent of system rating. Comply with IEEE 519 at MDP point of connection. - Test and record the real power output for each inverter, and total power delivered at the grid tie connection, for a 24 hour period. The continuous power output during prime solar conditions shall meet or exceed performance requirement under part I of this specification. - For each inverter, record DC input voltage for 24 hours, to demonstrate affects of maximum power point tracking (MPPT), voltage regulation within inverter rated limits, and affect of partial shading on solar modules. Simulate partial shading by covering 50% of modules during prime solar conditions. - Record of Tests and Inspections:Prepare and submit documentation of tests and inspections, including references to manufacturers' written instructions and other test and inspection criteria. Include results of tests, inspections, and retests. / Any advice would be gratefully accepted and appreciated! Best, Greg Egan NABCEP Certified PV Installer Remote Power Inc. Fairbanks, AK -- Greg Egan Remote Power Inc. 981 Gold Mine Trail Fairbanks, AK 99712 P. 907.457.4299 U.S.Distributor for Outback Power Systems and other premium power equipment. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] direct grid micro inverters?
Wrenches, I was wondering if anyone has any experience with this company and/or it's products. We have a client looking to put in a bunch of modules. I don't believe the other micro inverter companies warrant their inverters down to -40 so these guys have got my attention. Thanks! Greg NABCEP certified PV installer -- Greg Egan Remote Power Inc. 981 Gold Mine Trail Fairbanks, AK 99712 P. 907.457.4299 U.S.Distributor for Outback Power Systems and other premium power equipment. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] DC voltage drop
ity of copper and make an estimate of the operating temperature. Most of the standard tables that you find in books assume that the temperature of the copper wire is at the limit for PVC insulation (around 70 degrees C) but in reality you will be working much lower (for energy efficiency) and thus have lower resistance. As usual it's a lot easier for us with metric units of measure (wires are sold according to their cross section in square mm) but you can also do this with AWG. Remember that increasing wire gauge by 3 halves the area, so #6 has half the sectional area, and hence twice the resistance of #3. Here are some resistances I worked out for an article in HP magazine 134 (back page basics) using "English" units. But here I am giving you the figures at 3 different temperatures to emphasise the effects of temperature: FEET PER OHM OF TWIN CABLE === === === === #AWG0 35 70 degrees C === === === === 05,541 4,639 3,989 14,394 3,679 3,164 23,484 2,917 2,509 32,763 2,313 1,989 42,191 1,835 1,578 51,738 1,455 1,251 61,378 1,154 992 71,093 915 787 8867 726 624 9687 575 495 10 545 456 392 12 343 287 247 === === === === The figures are FEET ONE WAY to make one ohm for a 2-core cable. For example if you use #8 at an operating temperature of 35C then you get 726 feet of wire run (actually using 1452 feet of actual wire) to make one ohm. It's easy to use. Say your current is I and the wire run is L. Volt-drop will therefore be V = I x L / 726 (in this case). Say 10 amps and 100 feet then you will lose 1000/726 = 1.4 volts. No sense in calculating a string of decimals, since the temperature is only estimated anyway. Using this stuff you can build your own spreadsheet or even do the calcs quickly in your head to a useful level of accuracy once you have a bit of experience. As I say its a lot easier with metric units where the wires sizes are multiples of 1 sqmm, and about 28 metres of that stuff is one ohm. -- Greg Egan Remote Power Inc. 981 Gold Mine Trail Fairbanks, AK 99712 P. 907.457.4299 U.S.Distributor for Outback Power Systems and other premium power equipment. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] High Snow Load on PV modules
My solution to snow load issues is to install modules on racks so they can tilt to 90 degrees when it's snow season. I guess it depends on where you are but in the areas of Alaska where we work we tell people to tilt your array to 90 in the fall and kick it back to lat-15 in the late spring. They gain some from snow reflection and lose some because they're not always at the best angle but they make a lot more power than modules installed under the snow. We like top of pole mounts that allow for an 85 or 90 degree setting for the snowy season. We've done some installs of modules on the s side of buildings where we leave them basically plumb during snow season and kick them out like an awning the rest of the year. Sometimes there's a nice 2' overhang on the roof that keeps the snow off the wall mounted array even if it's kicked out maybe to 75 degrees or so. Roof installs are our least favorite for a number of reasons. I know the architects among us love to not see those ugly modules but I generally try to convince my clients that their neighbors will think they're stupid if they see their PV panels under the snow. Believe it or not we get most of our annual sunshine in the spring. It's clear and cool. June has more "possible" sun hours but is generally cloudier so the NREL 30 yr averages show spring to be the most productive for us. Don't want to miss out on that power if we can help it! Best, Greg Greg Egan Remote Power Inc. 981 Gold Mine Trail Fairbanks, AK 99712 P. 907.457.4299 U.S.Distributor for Outback Power Systems and other premium power equipment. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Pathfinder data manipulation
Glenn, Thanks for the quick response. We override the latitude default because we never install arrays at a latitude tilt angle. 90 degrees sheds snow. That's setting 1. Latitude minus 15 is the other season. So what we're doing is making 2 reports- one at 90 and one at 52 for example - and then calculating the "winter" power production at 90 degrees plus the "summer" power production at 52 degrees to get an estimate of the total annual power production at a particular site. What I wanted to do was export the data from SPA to excel so I could combine the data from the 2 reports (summer and winter settings) quickly and accurately. It may be do-able with the SPA software but I get an error message when I go into the EDIT menu and click "copy report data". I contacted SPA and they will get back with me on it but I just thought that someone out there might have already come up with a slick way of doing it already. I just got off the phone with the SP folks and they are going to talk with their programmers and see if they can't come up with an update that would let users put in a different latitude for every month - so if they are under snow Dec - January for instance, they could show the array tilt as 90 for that period. Thanks Greg -- Greg Egan Remote Power Inc. 981 Gold Mine Trail Fairbanks, AK 99712 P. 907.457.4299 U.S.Distributor for Outback Power Systems and other premium power equipment. Hi Greg, We use this tool & on the first page where you setup a new report, you can specify the 'surface tilt settings' and override the Latitude default. You can create a full report, then 'edit report' and change the tilt to run other scenarios. HTH -Glenn Burt ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Solar Pathfinder data manipulation
Hi all, I'm doing a few Solar Site Survey Reports using the Solar Pathfinder Assistant 4.0 Software. We get snow and it sticks to modules so we need to be able to model the arrays at 85 or 90 degrees during the likely snowy months and closer to 50 degrees during the other months. I was hoping a) that the SP software would allow me to do this or b) it would allow me to export the data tables into ms excel so I can do it myself. I can't seem to figure out a way to get it to let me do either. I can't believe I'm the only wrench in North America that has tried to do this. Anyone out there already done this successfully or know of another program that I can buy to get it done? I can just retype all the data into excel every time I do a report but that seems a slow way to do it and invites typing errors into the data set. Thanks in advance, Greg Egan NABCEP Certified PV Installer & Licensed Electrician Remote Power Inc. 981 Gold Mine Trail Fairbanks, AK 99712 P. 907.457.4299 U.S.Distributor for Outback Power Systems and other premium power equipment. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] PV pricing and Pro conduct
Jeff, Joel, William and all, Thanks for all the input. I think the general consensus is that giving out wholesale price information is not a great business strategy - on this list or anywhere else. I'm glad the PV pricing thread morphed into Professional Conduct. There was a lot of really good advice in those posts. I think you saved a lot of us "lurkers" some scar - tissue! Thanks again, Greg Egan Remote Power Inc. re-wrenches-requ...@lists.re-wrenches.org wrote: Send RE-wrenches mailing list submissions to re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to re-wrenches-requ...@lists.re-wrenches.org You can reach the person managing the list at re-wrenches-ow...@lists.re-wrenches.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of RE-wrenches digest..." When responding to posts within the Digest, be sure to restore the Subject: line to the original, and please edit out any extraneous lines from the quoted message. Today's Topics: 1. Charge Controllers with greater than 150 V input (Peter Parrish) 2. Re: Charge Controllers with greater than 150 V input (jay peltz) 3. Re: Professional conduct ( Jeff Yago) 4. Re: Professional conduct (William Miller) 5. Re: Charge Controllers with greater than 150 V input (Matt Tritt) -- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 17:23:18 -0800 From: "Peter Parrish" Subject: [RE-wrenches] Charge Controllers with greater than 150 V input To: "'RE-wrenches'" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I seem to remember mention a while ago of a quality charge controller that supports a higher input voltage than 150 V? We would like 175 V. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20090205/fba969f8/attachment-0001.htm> -- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 17:40:19 -0800 From: jay peltz Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Charge Controllers with greater than 150 V input To: RE-wrenches Message-ID: <96c18e8f-5047-4ae5--d0b3fb570...@asis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed"; DelSp="yes" Hi Peter, Apollo makes a high voltage 200VOC unit, 80 amps. And the Classic from Midnight is almost ready to come out if I hear it right. jay peltz power On Feb 5, 2009, at 5:23 PM, Peter Parrish wrote: I seem to remember mention a while ago of a quality charge controller that supports a higher input voltage than 150 V? We would like 175 V. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20090205/e0bf2aaf/attachment-0001.htm> -- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 18:09:24 -0800 From: " Jeff Yago" Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Professional conduct To: RE-wrenches Message-ID: <20090205180924.1feed...@resin14.mta.everyone.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20090205/3728bd1c/attachment-0001.htm> -- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2009 18:33:45 -0800 From: William Miller Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Professional conduct To: RE-wrenches Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20090205183240.03aab...@pop.charter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Joel: Shoot. I guess this means I gotta write a book... William At 03:43 PM 2/5/2009, you wrote: parts list, I ask them, "Why? Are you going to use the list to shop around?" Then I usually end up telling them politely, "I'm sorry, but I do not design PV systems for free. If you want parts lists and wiring diagrams, then buy my book." -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenche
Re: [RE-wrenches] Prices on PV
Hey guys, Is this a list that can be viewed by the public or what? If it is - why are we advertising the lowest prices we can buy PV for? Would you intentionally tell a potential client - "I'm buying PV for 2.95/watt but I'll sell it to you for 3.95 - how do you like that?" I spoke to Michael about this a month ago regarding posts about battery pricing and he said it CAN be viewed by the public although it isn't advertised. He also said that he found a link to a post from this list on GOOGLE although it's not supposed to be there. Google is about as public as it gets! I don't know about your customers but if mine knew there was 2.95/watt pv out there they'd want to pay 2.95 /watt and not a penny more. Same thing for batteries and everything else we sell. Especially in this economy. Understand - I have the utmost respect for all the posters on this list and recognize that some of you have decades more business experience than I do. However, I strongly suggest if you want to talk pricing with people - contact them off list. I don't see where publishing your wholesale discount pricing on the web is good for your business, my business, or the RE industry as a whole. Best, Greg Egan Remote Power Inc. re-wrenches-requ...@lists.re-wrenches.org wrote: Send RE-wrenches mailing list submissions to re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to re-wrenches-requ...@lists.re-wrenches.org You can reach the person managing the list at re-wrenches-ow...@lists.re-wrenches.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of RE-wrenches digest..." When responding to posts within the Digest, be sure to restore the Subject: line to the original, and please edit out any extraneous lines from the quoted message. Today's Topics: 1. Re: future market crystal ball (Wind-sun.com) 2. Re: NY Times: 25% price reduction on PV (Joel Davidson) -- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 10:47:28 -0700 From: "Wind-sun.com" Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] future market crystal ball To: ,"RE-wrenches" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original We saw the same thing, and it is like deja vu all over again. And I totally agree on this part: ". I think any government related "gift" always brings more problems than they are worth, as sooner or later there will be more forms to fill out, more fees, inspections, approvals, and other strings that are always attached.." Subsidies and "gifts" always distort the true market, inviting profiteers and fly by night operations. We are seeing them already. This applies to solar panels just as much as it does to ethanol, corn, or oil. And the increased government regulation started hitting at least two years ago. We will be stuck with those regulations forever, but eventually the subsidies will go away. While panel prices have dropped somewhat, we have seen a huge increase in things like permit costs, general (often useless) red tape, etc. .. Northern Arizona Wind & Sun - Electricity From The Sun - Original Message - From: " Jeff Yago" To: "RE-wrenches" Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 10:30 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] future market crystal ball Being in the solar business during the first solar tax credits during Jimmy Carter, I see the same things going on again now with the new tax credits. I think those who do not know history will repeat it. On one hand solar tax credits increase interest and "buzz" with the general public and will cause the fence-sitters to finally make the purchase. But I also think this will only affects the fence sitters, so after the initial increase in sales as a result of the tax credits, the market will settle back to sales based on actual need. Tax credits also have a downside, like bringing some marketers and installers into the market who have little or no experience, who do poor quality installations that get highly publicized, and who will use tax credits to hide their much higher profit margins. I think any government related "gift" always brings more problems than they are worth, as sooner or later there will be more forms to fill out, more fees, inspections, approvals, and other strings that are always attached - there are no free lunches and no free tax credits. -- Messa
