[RE-wrenches] Solar Thermal Expert in Los Angeles Area?
Hi all, I have a student who is looking for a solar thermal expert to look at an ailing system in Anaheim, CA. Who could he call? Thank you in advance, Kelly ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Design Software?
Hi y'all, Since I haven't been doing layout/design recently, I wonder what software I can recommend to a client. He is a newbie doing mostly commercial systems - some roof and some ground mount. The software needs to layout strings for string inverters, calc voltage drop, conductor sizes, etc, and show distances. Suggestions? Thank you in advance, Kelly ~~~~~~~ Kelly Larson 707-223-3209 Box 18094 Reno, NV 89511 Electrical Engineer NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™ NABCEP Certified PV Installer Specialist™ NABCEP Certified PV Commissioning & Maintenance Specialist™ IREC Certified Master Trainer™/ PV CA Electrical Contractor# 868189 Solar Energy International Instructor SolarKelly.com ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Design Software?
Hi y'all, Since I haven't been doing layout/design recently, I wonder what software I can recommend to a client. He is a newbie doing mostly commercial systems - some roof and some ground mount. The software needs to layout strings for string inverters, calc voltage drop, conductor sizes, etc, and show distances. Suggestions? Thank you in advance, Kelly ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] New IEC 62446
Hi fellow wrenches, Has anyone seen the new version of IEC 62446? I am wondering if they added an entry for insulation resistance tests with an array voltage above the ">500V" category. Thank you in advance, Kelly ~~~ Kelly Larson 707-223-3209 Box 18094 Reno, NV 89511 Electrical Engineer NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™ NABCEP Certified PV Installer Specialist™ NABCEP Certified PV Commissioning & Maintenance Specialist™ IREC Certified Master Trainer™/ PV CA Electrical Contractor# 868189 Solar Energy International Instructor SolarKelly.com ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Fire Mitigation Plans (NEC 691.10)
Hi fellow wrenches, Does anybody have examples of what they've seen used for a “Fire Mitigation Plan” for compliance with 691.10, or guidance on what should be in an appropriate Fire Mitigation Plan. I imagine the level of complexity in such plans could be quite regional, given the wide variability of fire risk across the country? I have not run across the need for a Fire Mitigation Plan, but imagine that some of you have. What suggestions do you have? Thank you in advance, Kelly ~~~ Kelly Larson 707-223-3209 Box 18094 Reno, NV 89511 Electrical Engineer NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™ NABCEP Certified PV Installer Specialist™ NABCEP Certified PV Commissioning & Maintenance Specialist™ IREC Certified Master Trainer™/ PV CA Electrical Contractor# 868189 Solar Energy International Instructor SolarKelly.com ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Good Tablets for the Solar Installer
Esteemed wrenches, I am looking to buy a PC tablet/laptop for testing in the field. I will be using a Solmetric PVA, Seaward 210 and Survey, excel spreadsheet, internet, and email. I also would like to be able to read and annotate pdfs. Suggestions? What do you use? What are the advantages and shortcomings of your device? Thank you for your response in advance! Kelly ~~~ Kelly Larson Electrical Engineer NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™ NABCEP Certified PV Installer Specialist™ NABCEP Certified PV Commissioning & Maintenance Specialist™ IREC Certified Master Trainer™/ PV CA Electrical Contractor# 868189 SolarKelly.com ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Battery temperature sensor for Sunny Island
All, We replaced a failed Radian in our shop PV/backup system with an elderly Sunny Island 5048 salvaged from a demo. The inverter works fine, but needs a battery temperature sensor. I’m having no luck finding one to buy, unless it ships from Europe. Or, if another make is compatible. Any help? Thanks, Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Principal Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems NABCEP PV Installation Professional WA Electrical Administrator office: 360.678.7131 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Darn Pesky Electrons
This is a new onenot critical issue, just very curious. 7.92kW Enphase IQ6 system on garage roof. There seems to be some RFI(?) that is preventing the garage door remote from operating unless it is right at the door. Works ok at night and in cloudy weather, but in full sun it isn't operating as usual before system installed. Small inconvenience but a curious situation. Any thoughts? Holt E. Kelly Holtek Fireplace & Solar Products 500 Jewell Dr. Waco, TX 76712 www.holteksolar.com<http://www.holteksolar.com/> 254-751-9111 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Ac Coupling
Larry, I recommend considering retrofitting the SolarEdge “StorEdge” Li-ion battery. It’s a high-voltage battery on the PV side of the inverter. We have a few out there now for a few months without a problem. Really like the design concept of the storage on the PV side, increasing system efficiency. We’ve done quite a few AC-coupled systems, which Outback FX, Outback Radian, and SMA Sunny Island/Sunny Boy. The Outbacks require a cutout relay. We won’t do Radian AC-coupling any more, as the setup, documentation, and support is a royal PITA, and have had failures in the “ROCB” automatic cutout breaker. Even when the ROCB doesn’t fail, it often cuts out when it isn’t supposed to, like at the start/end of a float cycle. My understanding is that Outback doesn’t support AC-coupling any more with the Radian. Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Principal Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems NABCEP PV Installation Professional WA Electrical Administrator office: 360.678.7131 > On Jul 19, 2018, at 07:07, Larry Brown wrote: > > Does anyone have a recommendation on a battery based inverter to AC Couple > with a Solar Edge 11400A-US Inverter that is already installed? > I have been working a lot with the Schneider Conergy XW+ Inverters for off > grid but have no experience AC Coupling them with a Solar Edge Inverter > Any recommendations? > > Thanks > Larry > > Larry Brown > Sun Mountain > 845-657-8096 > sunmount...@netstep.net > > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA Core 1 Inverter
Good to know, Darryl! Thanks for posting, Kelly > On Nov 6, 2017, at 3:18 PM, Darryl Thayer wrote: > > Hi i was at a SMA lecture and they said the boards are replaceable, so > hopefully a perdon never has to replace the complete unit > > On Nov 6, 2017 10:08 AM, "Kelly Larson" wrote: > >> …especially replacement! The inverter weighs in at 185 lbs, so >> replacement likely will require the use of a crane on multi-story flat >> roofs. >> >> I am in complete agreement with you that putting inverters on the roof is >> not ideal. Not only is servicing and replacement an issue, but there is no >> doubt that the inverter will run hotter sitting in the sun. But this is >> one way to satisfy the 2014 rapid shutdown requirements, so I assume we >> will be seeing more of it. Compared to other commercial roof rapid >> shutdown solutions that employ a contractor it seems important to consider >> rooftop inverters, as they provide potentially more reliable system >> operation in the long run. Maybe we should be looking at lower DC/AC >> ratios for these systems? >> >> I am still wondering if anyone on the list has installed these SMA Core1 >> inverters. >> >> Thanks for the comments! >> Kelly >> >> PS: I didn’t design or install the system, but am inspecting and >> commissioning it. >> >> >>> On Nov 2, 2017, at 2:30 PM, William Miller >> wrote: >>> >>> Kelly: >>> >>> I see one problem: the inverter on the roof. Makes servicing and >>> replacement a real pain. >>> >>> William >>> >>> >>> >>> Lic 773985 >>> millersolar.com >>> 805-438-5600 >>> >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On >>> Behalf Of Kelly Larson >>> Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2017 12:36 PM >>> To: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA Core 1 Inverter >>> >>> Dear estemed Wrenches, >>> >>> I will be inspecting a system with SMA’s new Core 1 inverters and am >>> wondering: What experience do you have with this inverter? >>> >>> I think it is the first inverter made to sit freestanding on a commercial >>> roof. It looks like it has some super interesting features, including >>> “String Failure Detection”. (Why is this feature deactivated by >> default?) >>> >>> I’m not sure how well it will satisfy the rapid shutdown requirement when >>> the roof array areas are broken up, but on one with a contiguous array >> area, >>> it looks like it’ll work for the 2014 NEC. >>> >>> Any bugs or issues I should know about? >>> >>> Thanks in advanced for your replies! >>> >>> Blessings, >>> Kelly >>> >>> >>> ~ >>> Kelly Larson >>> 707-223-3209 >>> >>> Box 504 >>> Ukiah, CA 95482 >>> Electrical Engineer >>> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional IREC Certified Master >>> Trainer for Photovoltaic Installer CA Electrical Contractor# 868189 >>> SolarKelly.com >>> >>> "Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, >> power >>> and magic in it." -- Goethe >>> >>> >> >> ___ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches. >> org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA Core 1 Inverter
…especially replacement! The inverter weighs in at 185 lbs, so replacement likely will require the use of a crane on multi-story flat roofs. I am in complete agreement with you that putting inverters on the roof is not ideal. Not only is servicing and replacement an issue, but there is no doubt that the inverter will run hotter sitting in the sun. But this is one way to satisfy the 2014 rapid shutdown requirements, so I assume we will be seeing more of it. Compared to other commercial roof rapid shutdown solutions that employ a contractor it seems important to consider rooftop inverters, as they provide potentially more reliable system operation in the long run. Maybe we should be looking at lower DC/AC ratios for these systems? I am still wondering if anyone on the list has installed these SMA Core1 inverters. Thanks for the comments! Kelly PS: I didn’t design or install the system, but am inspecting and commissioning it. > On Nov 2, 2017, at 2:30 PM, William Miller wrote: > > Kelly: > > I see one problem: the inverter on the roof. Makes servicing and > replacement a real pain. > > William > > > > Lic 773985 > millersolar.com > 805-438-5600 > > > -Original Message- > From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On > Behalf Of Kelly Larson > Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2017 12:36 PM > To: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA Core 1 Inverter > > Dear estemed Wrenches, > > I will be inspecting a system with SMA’s new Core 1 inverters and am > wondering: What experience do you have with this inverter? > > I think it is the first inverter made to sit freestanding on a commercial > roof. It looks like it has some super interesting features, including > “String Failure Detection”. (Why is this feature deactivated by default?) > > I’m not sure how well it will satisfy the rapid shutdown requirement when > the roof array areas are broken up, but on one with a contiguous array area, > it looks like it’ll work for the 2014 NEC. > > Any bugs or issues I should know about? > > Thanks in advanced for your replies! > > Blessings, > Kelly > > > ~ > Kelly Larson > 707-223-3209 > > Box 504 > Ukiah, CA 95482 > Electrical Engineer > NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional IREC Certified Master > Trainer for Photovoltaic Installer CA Electrical Contractor# 868189 > SolarKelly.com > > "Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power > and magic in it." -- Goethe > > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] SMA Core 1 Inverter
Dear estemed Wrenches, I will be inspecting a system with SMA’s new Core 1 inverters and am wondering: What experience do you have with this inverter? I think it is the first inverter made to sit freestanding on a commercial roof. It looks like it has some super interesting features, including “String Failure Detection”. (Why is this feature deactivated by default?) I’m not sure how well it will satisfy the rapid shutdown requirement when the roof array areas are broken up, but on one with a contiguous array area, it looks like it’ll work for the 2014 NEC. Any bugs or issues I should know about? Thanks in advanced for your replies! Blessings, Kelly ~ Kelly Larson 707-223-3209 Box 504 Ukiah, CA 95482 Electrical Engineer NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional IREC Certified Master Trainer for Photovoltaic Installer CA Electrical Contractor# 868189 SolarKelly.com "Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it." -- Goethe ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Grundfos CU200 location
Hi Jay, I’ve put it both close to the pump and the array and never noticed any issues. Blessings, Kelly ~ Kelly Larson 707-223-3209 Box 504 Ukiah, CA 95482 Electrical Engineer NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional IREC Certified Master Trainer for Photovoltaic Installer CA Electrical Contractor# 868189 SolarKelly.com <http://solarkelly.com/> > On Apr 9, 2016, at 1:22 PM, jay <mailto:jay.pe...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > HI All, > > Does anyone know where the CU-200 has to be located? > > I’m trying to determine if it matters if the CU200 be closer to the pump or > not? > > I have a location where there is some theft possibility so if I can mount it > 200’ away where the PV is that would help. > But the manual isn’t any help. > > Thanks > > jay > > Peltz power > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > <mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org> > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Bay Area Structural Engineer Recommendation?
Hi Wrenches, Can anyone recommend a good structural engineer in the Bay Area? Blessings, Kelly ~ Kelly Larson 707-223-3209 Box 504 Ukiah, CA 95482 Electrical Engineer NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional IREC Certified Master Trainer for Photovoltaic Installer CA Electrical Contractor# 868189 SolarKelly.com <http://solarkelly.com/> ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] to flash or not to flash
Hi All, In the early days with PV and SWH we didn’t use flashings for most roofs (except tile). We used L-feet directly to the roofing with butyl (comp) or EPDM (metal) and pre-filled our holes and covered the attachments with good goop. We've never had a leak reported from this practice. And, here in western Washington State, it does get tested. We changed methods about 10 years ago deciding it would be good practice - both legally and professionally - to follow roofing industry guidelines that prescribe (if you consider attachments “penetrations”) the use of flashings. This spring we had our first leak, from a 2-year old system, on a 4:12 comp roof, with flashed L-feet. The leak occurred through a roofing nail hole that our installers had pulled but didn’t quite get covered up by the flashing or sealant. Even though the hole was still “shingled” by 2 layers of overlapping comp, the concentrated storm runoff from the module edges overwhelmed the ability of the shingles to shed the water. We fixed the problem, reroofing the section and fixing the damage to the ceiling, but not to our reputation and pride. Even though this issue was caused by a combination of procedural error and specific geometry, it’s easy to imagine this could happen again. Installers moving fast on roofs and not being able to see exactly where those nails they are pulling are coming from. And, when it’s cold out older comp shingles can crack when trying to get the nails out. If “best practices” for our industry could be established/recognized that prescribed our former methodology with L-feet, I would be happy to return to it (customers would also get lower costs). As of now, however, “best practices” for us mean following the roofing industry standards. -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Principal Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems NABCEP PV Installation Professional WA Electrical Administrator ke...@whidbeysunwind.com PH & FAX: 360.678.7131 On Aug 26, 2015, at 7:44, jay wrote: > Didn’t know there was a pole. > I”m on the flash side. > > Question for those who don’t. > How would your insurance claim work if you didn’t flash? > > jay > > peltz power > > >> On Aug 25, 2015, at 9:59 PM, Jason Andrade >> wrote: >> >> I wouldn't install a comp roof system without the flashings myself, I am in >> Northern California and the extreme weather both heat and cold are murder on >> roofing. >> >> Jason >> >> West Coast Sustainables >> Jason Andrade >> C-46# 974647 >> (530) 410-4745 Cell >> (530) 241-7498 Office >> (530) 348-5301 Fax >> ja...@westcoastsustainables.com > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] PV step-up transformer design
Jerry, A utility-side cause is a suspicion for our system issue, especially after a year and a half of operation. However, in our case the little 15 kVA step-up transformers are between the inverters and the main utility inverter for this facility. Our design should be robust enough to handle whatever the utility throws at it. With the neutral between the 15 kVA 277/480 secondary and the utility transformer doing nothing I’m leaning toward disconnecting it - unless any of you see a problem with doing so. -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Principal Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems NABCEP PV Installation Professional WA Electrical Administrator ke...@whidbeysunwind.com PH & FAX: 360.678.7131 On Apr 3, 2015, at 16:38, Jerry Shafer wrote: > Wrenches > > We just had a utility side issue that had the same transfomer damage on only > neutral wire. This was a larger 3/0 inverter 333 k but the utility may be a > direction to look at. This was one of three systems, none of the others > showed damage either. There should be next to nothing on that wire with 240 > volt inverters. > Jerry > > On Apr 3, 2015 1:03 PM, "August Goers" wrote: > Hi Kelly, > > > Sounds like a doozey. As others have posted, it sounds like an imbalance > issue. However, it might be possible to solve the problem without replacing > the major equipment (could just be wire size, phasing, fuses, etc?). Do you > have a single line diagram you can share? > > > Best, > > > August > > > From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On > Behalf Of Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun & Wind > Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2015 3:19 PM > To: RE Wrenches listserve > Subject: [RE-wrenches] PV step-up transformer design > > > Wrenches, > > We have issues with a 1-1/2 year old 25 kW grid-tied PV system utilizing 2 > step up transformers from the array to grid. Actually it’s two identical, > 12.5 kW systems (for incentive and financing reasons) on each transformer. > Note that the inverter size and voltage selection was also dictated by > incentives. Each of the two systems are designed as follows: > > > - 3, 3.8 kW, 240 Vac inverters (16A max output current) across each phase of > the 240V, 3-ph Delta primary of a 15 kVA transformer. Each inverter 1-ph > output has a fused disconnect. The output of all three inverters is combined > into 3 phase delta configuration with terminal blocks before the transformer. > Other than the inverter AC disconnects there is no OCPD on the 3-ph primary > side of the transformer. > > > - Transformer secondary to grid is 277/480 wye. The secondary output has two > fused disconnects (one at each end of the 600-ft run between array and > line-side connection) each with 20-A fuses. > > > After more than year of operation we noticed one inverter, in one of the two > identical systems, was down (monitoring showed it happened past December), > indicating a grid problem. One fuse (of the 3) in the secondary (grid-side) > fused disco had blown. Replaced that fuse, but then 2 fuses at the disconnect > near the meter, 600 feet away, popped. > > > Systematic checking of the system reveals no shorted conductors, but a > problem at the transformer. Close inspection revealed that the insulation on > our 90˚C neutral conductor had slightly melted where it touched the X-O > neutral wire of the transformer (the splice looked fine). Now it gets more > interesting…. > > > In the last week, while troubleshooting the first 12.5 kW system, its > adjacent twin system had an inverter quit with a ground-fault error (these > inverters commonly will display ground fault errors for other reasons). One > of the 20A fuses in the secondary (grid 277/480) side had popped. And, yup, > the neutral wire had signs of overheating. We shut all three inverters down > in that system. The transformer doesn’t seem damaged, hopefully because we > caught it in time. But we’re looking at a replacement transformer for the > first system. > > > Here’s what we think may have happened: The grid went down and, on coming > back on, the in-rush current to the secondary side of the transformer popped > a (undersized) fuse, taking out one leg of the 480. One inverter on the > primary side saw a bad grid and dropped out, but the other two connected and > kept producing. This unbalanced production resulted in the neutral of the > secondary wye (grid) side of the transformer, being overloaded. Over 3 months > this unbalanced operation damaged the transformer. > > > Initially we replaced the fuses near the line-connection with 60A (it’s a > hot-swap and we don’t want those to go again unless
Re: [RE-wrenches] PV step-up transformer design
Hi August, Yes, it’s difficult to understand what’s going on from my text description. I’ll forward a copy of the schematic to all who replied, when I get in the office tomorrow. Any wrenches lurking who’d like to look at the schematic let me know off-line. -Kelly On Apr 3, 2015, at 16:02, August Goers wrote: > Hi Kelly, > > Sounds like a doozey. As others have posted, it sounds like an imbalance > issue. However, it might be possible to solve the problem without replacing > the major equipment (could just be wire size, phasing, fuses, etc?). Do you > have a single line diagram you can share? > > Best, > > August > > From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On > Behalf Of Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun & Wind > Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2015 3:19 PM > To: RE Wrenches listserve > Subject: [RE-wrenches] PV step-up transformer design > > Wrenches, > We have issues with a 1-1/2 year old 25 kW grid-tied PV system utilizing 2 > step up transformers from the array to grid. Actually it’s two identical, > 12.5 kW systems (for incentive and financing reasons) on each transformer. > Note that the inverter size and voltage selection was also dictated by > incentives. Each of the two systems are designed as follows: > > - 3, 3.8 kW, 240 Vac inverters (16A max output current) across each phase of > the 240V, 3-ph Delta primary of a 15 kVA transformer. Each inverter 1-ph > output has a fused disconnect. The output of all three inverters is combined > into 3 phase delta configuration with terminal blocks before the transformer. > Other than the inverter AC disconnects there is no OCPD on the 3-ph primary > side of the transformer. > > - Transformer secondary to grid is 277/480 wye. The secondary output has two > fused disconnects (one at each end of the 600-ft run between array and > line-side connection) each with 20-A fuses. > > After more than year of operation we noticed one inverter, in one of the two > identical systems, was down (monitoring showed it happened past December), > indicating a grid problem. One fuse (of the 3) in the secondary (grid-side) > fused disco had blown. Replaced that fuse, but then 2 fuses at the disconnect > near the meter, 600 feet away, popped. > > Systematic checking of the system reveals no shorted conductors, but a > problem at the transformer. Close inspection revealed that the insulation on > our 90˚C neutral conductor had slightly melted where it touched the X-O > neutral wire of the transformer (the splice looked fine). Now it gets more > interesting…. > > In the last week, while troubleshooting the first 12.5 kW system, its > adjacent twin system had an inverter quit with a ground-fault error (these > inverters commonly will display ground fault errors for other reasons). One > of the 20A fuses in the secondary (grid 277/480) side had popped. And, yup, > the neutral wire had signs of overheating. We shut all three inverters down > in that system. The transformer doesn’t seem damaged, hopefully because we > caught it in time. But we’re looking at a replacement transformer for the > first system. > > Here’s what we think may have happened: The grid went down and, on coming > back on, the in-rush current to the secondary side of the transformer popped > a (undersized) fuse, taking out one leg of the 480. One inverter on the > primary side saw a bad grid and dropped out, but the other two connected and > kept producing. This unbalanced production resulted in the neutral of the > secondary wye (grid) side of the transformer, being overloaded. Over 3 months > this unbalanced operation damaged the transformer. > > Initially we replaced the fuses near the line-connection with 60A (it’s a > hot-swap and we don’t want those to go again unless the conductors need it), > and the fuses near the array transformer secondary with 30A, thinking that > will handle the inrush current to the transformer after a grid outage better > than the 20A fuses. However, after a lot of discussion, research, and > consideration of the risk (of replacing another transformer) we’re wondering > if we need to alter the design more substantially. > > The main design change we’re considering is to replace the fused disconnect > on the secondary side with a 3-phase breaker, that will shut off all phases > of the grid supply simultaneously in case of an over-current fault. But, what > if one inverter just plain quits and that breaker stays on? Will the neutral > on the secondary still be overloaded from the other two? > Other changes we’re pondering include: > - Do we need a ganged 3-ph breaker on the inverter side, so that all three > inverters go off at once? This will onl
[RE-wrenches] PV step-up transformer design
Wrenches, We have issues with a 1-1/2 year old 25 kW grid-tied PV system utilizing 2 step up transformers from the array to grid. Actually it’s two identical, 12.5 kW systems (for incentive and financing reasons) on each transformer. Note that the inverter size and voltage selection was also dictated by incentives. Each of the two systems are designed as follows: - 3, 3.8 kW, 240 Vac inverters (16A max output current) across each phase of the 240V, 3-ph Delta primary of a 15 kVA transformer. Each inverter 1-ph output has a fused disconnect. The output of all three inverters is combined into 3 phase delta configuration with terminal blocks before the transformer. Other than the inverter AC disconnects there is no OCPD on the 3-ph primary side of the transformer. - Transformer secondary to grid is 277/480 wye. The secondary output has two fused disconnects (one at each end of the 600-ft run between array and line-side connection) each with 20-A fuses. After more than year of operation we noticed one inverter, in one of the two identical systems, was down (monitoring showed it happened past December), indicating a grid problem. One fuse (of the 3) in the secondary (grid-side) fused disco had blown. Replaced that fuse, but then 2 fuses at the disconnect near the meter, 600 feet away, popped. Systematic checking of the system reveals no shorted conductors, but a problem at the transformer. Close inspection revealed that the insulation on our 90˚C neutral conductor had slightly melted where it touched the X-O neutral wire of the transformer (the splice looked fine). Now it gets more interesting…. In the last week, while troubleshooting the first 12.5 kW system, its adjacent twin system had an inverter quit with a ground-fault error (these inverters commonly will display ground fault errors for other reasons). One of the 20A fuses in the secondary (grid 277/480) side had popped. And, yup, the neutral wire had signs of overheating. We shut all three inverters down in that system. The transformer doesn’t seem damaged, hopefully because we caught it in time. But we’re looking at a replacement transformer for the first system. Here’s what we think may have happened: The grid went down and, on coming back on, the in-rush current to the secondary side of the transformer popped a (undersized) fuse, taking out one leg of the 480. One inverter on the primary side saw a bad grid and dropped out, but the other two connected and kept producing. This unbalanced production resulted in the neutral of the secondary wye (grid) side of the transformer, being overloaded. Over 3 months this unbalanced operation damaged the transformer. Initially we replaced the fuses near the line-connection with 60A (it’s a hot-swap and we don’t want those to go again unless the conductors need it), and the fuses near the array transformer secondary with 30A, thinking that will handle the inrush current to the transformer after a grid outage better than the 20A fuses. However, after a lot of discussion, research, and consideration of the risk (of replacing another transformer) we’re wondering if we need to alter the design more substantially. The main design change we’re considering is to replace the fused disconnect on the secondary side with a 3-phase breaker, that will shut off all phases of the grid supply simultaneously in case of an over-current fault. But, what if one inverter just plain quits and that breaker stays on? Will the neutral on the secondary still be overloaded from the other two? Other changes we’re pondering include: - Do we need a ganged 3-ph breaker on the inverter side, so that all three inverters go off at once? This will only be useful in case of over current on an inverter output, which isn’t likely, and is now addressed with the fused 240 AC 1-ph disconnects on the inverter outputs. - Use a step-down transformer in reverse. I.E. use a 277/480 wye primary and 240 delta secondary and back feed the secondary with the PV. Some info from other sources suggest that this will reduce the inrush current from the grid after an outage. I think this would be inefficient at transmitting the PV power. - Can/should we remove the neutral connection to the transformer on the secondary side? There are no 277 loads or sources. - Can/should we put OCP on the neutral to the transformer? Your suggestions and experience will be appreciated. This has additional importance as we are preparing to install another 75 kW at the same site utilizing 240Vac inverters to the 277/480 grid. Thanks, -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Principal Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems NABCEP PV Installation Professional WA Electrical Administrator ke...@whidbeysunwind.com PH & FAX: 360.678.7131 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: htt
Re: [RE-wrenches] TL inverter with long DC Feeder
Hi William, The 5200TL has two independent MPPT zones, each with two string inputs (essentially a two string combiner on each MPPT zone). The 'combiners' can't be bypassed at the moment, and the max fuse size that is allowed is 20A. Sorry, but fuses greater than 20A are not allowed; they would violate our compliance to our product listing. Also, please be aware that the MPPT zones can't be configured to act as a single zone. Any one zone will input limit at 70% of the inverter's nameplate output, and the two zones together will limit when the inverter's AC output is reached. So, for the 5200TL, one zone is allowed to have a max input of 3640W, while the other zone will have the balance to achieve 5200W on the output side. In other words, in your example of only two strings, don't put both of your strings on one MPPT zone, because you will limit that MPPT zone and your output will only be around 3.6kW. I hope this is helpful. Let me know if I am not understanding your example correctly. Best, Mike From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of William Miller Sent: Monday, October 6, 2014 18:27 To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] TL inverter with long DC Feeder Mike: If I have just two strings of Solarworld SW275 modules per inverter, can I use one input to the built-in combiner to feed in a combined string? My calculations indicate that I might be able to feed the two strings into one 25 amp KLKD fuse. The Isc is 8.94. times 1.25 = 11.715. Times 2 = 22.35. The manual says use of any fuse higher than 20 amps voids the warranty. Could an exception be made if only one set of 25 amp fuses were installed? William PS: I am not sure fuses are required in a combiner with just two strings. The SW275 module can withstand 16 amp external feed (from the max fuse rating). A parallel module will output 8.94 times 1.56 or 13.95. This is less than the 16 amps. This used to be allowed in earlier versions of the code, I will have to look and see if it still is. Wm [Gradient Cap_mini] Lic 773985 millersolar.com<http://www.millersolar.com/> 805-438-5600 From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Michael Kelly Sent: Monday, October 06, 2014 3:10 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] TL inverter with long DC Feeder Hi William, I wanted to let you know that currently, there is no bypass terminal to allow for combining at the array in this series of inverters. We have gotten a lot of feedback from customers that this is a required feature. Working toward that, in the next few months, we will phase into production an update that will include a bypass, but the existing stock does not have the feature. I wanted to let you know so you could plan appropriately. Best, Mike Michael Kelly [Solectria_Yaskawa_signature_logo]<http://www.solectria.com/> HQ: 360 Merrimack Street, Bldg 9, Fl 2, Entrance I, Lawrence, MA 01843 USA O: +1 978-683-9700 x167 | F: +1 978-683-9702 mike.ke...@solectria.com<mailto:mike.ke...@solectria.com> | www.solectria.com<http://www.solectria.com/> NOTICE: This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, or an authorized representative of the recipient, please be advised that you may not use, copy or disclose its contents in part or in whole. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by replying to this e-mail, and delete the message. Thank you. From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of William Miller Sent: Monday, October 6, 2014 14:40 To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] TL inverter with long DC Feeder Wrenches: We are getting up to speed on using transformer-less inverters. I have advocated long for the additional safety offered by these inverters but I am realizing the trade-offs with the new technology: The implementation gets more complicated with the requirement for PV wire, OCPD and disconnecting means for plus and minus and plus providing Arc Flash rated equipment. I am currently designing a system that will locate the PV about 400 feet from the residence. The system will utilize 2 Solectria 5200 watt inverters at the residence. I would like to provide disconnecting means for the 4 strings at the array, in case of any needed service or excavating. Preferably I'd like the disconnecting means to be deployable by a lay person (i.e. the gardener). Finding an 8 pole, arc flash, 600 VDC rated disconnect is not easy. I could install an Outback 8 circuit combiner with 8 touch-safe fuse holders. The new combiners have had dead-fronts for a while now. The gardener needs only to have a Philips screw driver to open this cover. Any better ideas out there? Thanks, William [Gradient Cap_mini] Lic 773985 millersolar.com<http://www.millers
Re: [RE-wrenches] TL inverter with long DC Feeder
Hi William, I wanted to let you know that currently, there is no bypass terminal to allow for combining at the array in this series of inverters. We have gotten a lot of feedback from customers that this is a required feature. Working toward that, in the next few months, we will phase into production an update that will include a bypass, but the existing stock does not have the feature. I wanted to let you know so you could plan appropriately. Best, Mike Michael Kelly [Solectria_Yaskawa_signature_logo]<http://www.solectria.com/> HQ: 360 Merrimack Street, Bldg 9, Fl 2, Entrance I, Lawrence, MA 01843 USA O: +1 978-683-9700 x167 | F: +1 978-683-9702 mike.ke...@solectria.com<mailto:mike.ke...@solectria.com> | www.solectria.com<http://www.solectria.com/> NOTICE: This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, or an authorized representative of the recipient, please be advised that you may not use, copy or disclose its contents in part or in whole. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by replying to this e-mail, and delete the message. Thank you. From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of William Miller Sent: Monday, October 6, 2014 14:40 To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] TL inverter with long DC Feeder Wrenches: We are getting up to speed on using transformer-less inverters. I have advocated long for the additional safety offered by these inverters but I am realizing the trade-offs with the new technology: The implementation gets more complicated with the requirement for PV wire, OCPD and disconnecting means for plus and minus and plus providing Arc Flash rated equipment. I am currently designing a system that will locate the PV about 400 feet from the residence. The system will utilize 2 Solectria 5200 watt inverters at the residence. I would like to provide disconnecting means for the 4 strings at the array, in case of any needed service or excavating. Preferably I'd like the disconnecting means to be deployable by a lay person (i.e. the gardener). Finding an 8 pole, arc flash, 600 VDC rated disconnect is not easy. I could install an Outback 8 circuit combiner with 8 touch-safe fuse holders. The new combiners have had dead-fronts for a while now. The gardener needs only to have a Philips screw driver to open this cover. Any better ideas out there? Thanks, William [Gradient Cap_mini] Lic 773985 millersolar.com<http://www.millersolar.com/> 805-438-5600 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Concentrics at 250 volts plus
Hi William, The requirement for bonding on BOTH ends comes when the wire though the conduit is a GEC. For EGC, just one end of the conduit is sufficient. Blessings, Kelly ~ Kelly Larson 707-223-3209 Box 504 Ukiah, CA 95482 Electrical Engineer NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional IREC Certified Master Trainer for Photovoltaic Installer CA Electrical Contractor# 868189 SolarKelly.com On Jul 14, 2014, at 3:11 PM, William Miller wrote: > Friends: > > Please help us settle a crew debate before we come to blows: for circuits > 250 volts and higher, do we need to bond EMT at both ends? Or, if there is > bonded cabinet with a concentric on one end and a solid, bonded metal cabinet > on the other, do we need a bonding bushing on the concentric end? > > I say a conduit needs to be bonded only on one end. My misguided employee > says both ends. Both cabinets are independently bonded. > > Thanks in advance. > > William > Miller Solar > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Arc Flash Training
Thanks so much for relating this to me. I will try to get to a live one if it fits my schedule. Blessings, Kelly On Jul 11, 2014, at 2:40 PM, Glenn Burt wrote: > Hi Kelly, > > Yes, that's the one. I think I got much more out of it in person than the > online classes I have attended. There are many more teachable moments in a > face to face experience. > > Best of luck! > Glenn > From: Kelly Larson > Sent: 7/11/2014 16:48 > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Arc Flash Training > > Hi Glenn, > > Is that the NFPA's "2012 NFPA 70E: Electrical Safety in the Workplace 2-day > Seminar" you took? Do you think it is important to have it in person or > would online be okay? > > Blessings, > Kelly > > > On Jul 11, 2014, at 1:19 PM, Glenn Burt wrote: > >> We had enough people to justify having the NFPA send an instructor to our >> offices last Christmas time. Mr. Stallcup himself gave the 2 days of >> training and administered the exam. It was very well presented and gave us >> all a lot to think about in the development of our in-house safety program. >> I highly recommend the NFPA 70E course. >> >> Glenn >> From: Kelly Larson >> Sent: 7/11/2014 14:40 >> To: RE-wrenches >> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Arc Flash Training >> >> Hi all, >> >> I am in need of arc flash training. I expect to be working on some big >> commercial and "behind the fence" systems. What is the best trainers for >> arc fault? What should the training include? What gear do you have? Thank >> you in advance for sharing your expertise! > > [The entire original message is not included.] > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Arc Flash Training
Hi Glenn, Is that the NFPA's "2012 NFPA 70E: Electrical Safety in the Workplace 2-day Seminar" you took? Do you think it is important to have it in person or would online be okay? Blessings, Kelly On Jul 11, 2014, at 1:19 PM, Glenn Burt wrote: > We had enough people to justify having the NFPA send an instructor to our > offices last Christmas time. Mr. Stallcup himself gave the 2 days of training > and administered the exam. It was very well presented and gave us all a lot > to think about in the development of our in-house safety program. > I highly recommend the NFPA 70E course. > > Glenn > From: Kelly Larson > Sent: 7/11/2014 14:40 > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Arc Flash Training > > Hi all, > > I am in need of arc flash training. I expect to be working on some big > commercial and "behind the fence" systems. What is the best trainers for arc > fault? What should the training include? What gear do you have? Thank you > in advance for sharing your expertise! > > Blessings, > Kelly > > > ~ > Kelly Larson > 707-223-3209 > > Box 504 > Ukiah, CA 95482 > Electrical Engineer > NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional > IREC Certified Master Trainer for Photovoltaic Installer > CA Electrical Contractor# 868189 > SolarKelly.com > > > > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Arc Flash Training
Thanks, Ray. I will look at HP&P's training! I can get the arc flash videos online, but want more info about how and when to use the equipment, hazard analysis', etc. Arc flash videos are super scary. I use them in my classes to emphasize the risks and get buy in to the safety program. Most students don't realize that just working in a standard mains panel can put them in arc flash danger. Here is one showing what happens when you don't take precautions without being too graphic. (This guy runs out of the frame at the end still on fire). This one is great and shows how the right PPE can make the difference. For general PV safety info the pdfs at FACE are good, and this video is sobering about a PV worker fall death. Blessings, Kelly On Jul 11, 2014, at 12:30 PM, Ray Walters wrote: > I took an 8 hr Arc Flash Hazard Analysis Training course from HP&P Safety > here in Colorado. > I'm sure there are quite a few places that offer this. Its a standard course. > Basically after you watch enough video of folks getting blown up, you start > rethinking your approach to opening any live boxes. > My 2 sentence summary: > 1) Avoid working on live circuits in the first place. > 2) Wear flame retardant clothing (FR rated), gloves, and a Flash guard face > shield when you do have to work live. > > Most injuries are due to catching your clothing on fire, and the initial > flash going down your throat and burning your lungs. > R.Ray Walters > CTO, Solarray, Inc > Nabcep Certified PV Installer, > Licensed Master Electrician > Solar Design Engineer > 303 505-8760 > On 7/11/2014 12:40 PM, Kelly Larson wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I am in need of arc flash training. I expect to be working on some big >> commercial and "behind the fence" systems. What is the best trainers for >> arc fault? What should the training include? What gear do you have? Thank >> you in advance for sharing your expertise! >> >> Blessings, >> Kelly >> >> >> ~ >> Kelly Larson >> 707-223-3209 >> >> Box 504 >> Ukiah, CA 95482 >> Electrical Engineer >> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional >> IREC Certified Master Trainer for Photovoltaic Installer >> CA Electrical Contractor# 868189 >> SolarKelly.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Arc Flash Training
Thank you, boB for that link. I think it is exactly what I need, but I can't find the section that talks about training. Do you know how to navigate that site? Blessings, Kelly On Jul 11, 2014, at 11:51 AM, b...@midnitesolar.com wrote: > > AFAIK, Arc "Flash" usually means that it is for large(ish) AC systems and > maybe that is > exactly what you are looking for. > > It might have become a buzz word for DC and PV arc fault as well ? > > There is the Arc Fault Forum that has a lot of great information. > You can get past the login screen and just read the forum by > clicking on a forum subject. > > http://arcflashforum.brainfiller.com/ > > boB > > > On 7/11/2014 11:40 AM, Kelly Larson wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I am in need of arc flash training. I expect to be working on some big >> commercial and "behind the fence" systems. What is the best trainers for >> arc fault? What should the training include? What gear do you have? Thank >> you in advance for sharing your expertise! >> >> Blessings, >> Kelly >> >> >> ~ >> Kelly Larson >> 707-223-3209 >> >> Box 504 >> Ukiah, CA 95482 >> Electrical Engineer >> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional >> IREC Certified Master Trainer for Photovoltaic Installer >> CA Electrical Contractor# 868189 >> SolarKelly.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Arc Flash Training
Hi all, I am in need of arc flash training. I expect to be working on some big commercial and "behind the fence" systems. What is the best trainers for arc fault? What should the training include? What gear do you have? Thank you in advance for sharing your expertise! Blessings, Kelly ~ Kelly Larson 707-223-3209 Box 504 Ukiah, CA 95482 Electrical Engineer NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional IREC Certified Master Trainer for Photovoltaic Installer CA Electrical Contractor# 868189 SolarKelly.com ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Subject: Re: Best Ground Racking?
I second the Dura-con. We use them too. Blessings, Kelly On Feb 6, 2014, at 1:47 PM, Bill Hoffer wrote: > Ray > > Gave up on stainless fasteners and anti-sieze a long time ago after > discovering Dura-Con Fasteners. Better corrsion resistance against aluminum > than stainless and no galling! We have used them for training where systems > are assembled and disassembled several times. Even with anti-sieze still > would have to hack a few fasteners off every time. With Dura-Con no more > problem. I also believe that they are also cheaper than quality Stainless > ( not all stainless fasteners are created equal!) . Try em you'll be asking > every racking company to switch over from stainless! > > Bill, now gall-free Bill and loving it! > > > On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 12:55 PM, Ray Walters wrote: > We use Anti- Seize Lubricant made by Permalex. I get it at the auto parts > store. I have an 8 oz. bottle with built in brush on applicator. > Definitely recommended on all SS hardware. I took apart another installer5's > rack to add modules, and half the bolts were ruined and had to be replaced. > I recommend a torque wrench too, its super easy to over5 tighten the SS > hardware. > > R.Ray Walters > CTO, Solarray, Inc > Nabcep Certified PV Installer, > Licensed Master Electrician > Solar Design Engineer > 303 505-8760 > > > On 2/6/2014 11:20 AM, Jason Andrade wrote: > there are a lot of stainless bolts, I use pentrox as a anti galling > compound, what do other people use? > > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > > -- > William Hoffer > 161 SE Fourth Ave > P.O. Box 1823 > White Salmon, WA 98672-1823 > suneng...@gmail.com > > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Subject: Re: Best Ground Racking?
I use a toothpick and put a tiny bit in the bolt threads. It's a little less messy that way. Blessings, Kelly On Feb 6, 2014, at 1:25 PM, Chris Mason wrote: > This is the stuff. Be prepared for it to get everywhere, it's really messy > (or maybe I am). > > http://www.amazon.com/Permatex-80078-Anti-Seize-Lubricant-Bottle/dp/B000AAJTXY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1391721840&sr=8-1&keywords=permatex+anti-seize+lubricant > > > > > On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 5:21 PM, Chris Mason > wrote: > Probably Permatex. > > > On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 4:55 PM, Ray Walters wrote: > We use Anti- Seize Lubricant made by Permalex. I get it at the auto parts > store. I have an 8 oz. bottle with built in brush on applicator. > Definitely recommended on all SS hardware. I took apart another installer5's > rack to add modules, and half the bolts were ruined and had to be replaced. > I recommend a torque wrench too, its super easy to over5 tighten the SS > hardware. > > R.Ray Walters > CTO, Solarray, Inc > Nabcep Certified PV Installer, > Licensed Master Electrician > Solar Design Engineer > 303 505-8760 > > > On 2/6/2014 11:20 AM, Jason Andrade wrote: > there are a lot of stainless bolts, I use pentrox as a anti galling > compound, what do other people use? > > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > > -- > Chris Mason > President, Comet Systems Ltd > www.cometenergysystems.com > Cell: 264.235.5670 > Skype: netconcepts > > > > -- > Chris Mason > President, Comet Systems Ltd > www.cometenergysystems.com > Cell: 264.235.5670 > Skype: netconcepts > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Best Ground Racking?
I couldn't agree more, Chris! Hellermanntyton put on a nice little seminar at Intersolar last year and gave out lots of samples. I was positively impressed. Blessings, Kelly On Feb 6, 2014, at 3:48 AM, Chris Mason wrote: > In reference to William's comments on cable ties, which are very valid, > HellermannTyton makes a huge range of ties for every industry. They have a > catalogue of solar components which includes stainless ties and plastic > covered stainless ties. As an industry, we need to be purchasing the correct > products and not going to the local Home Depot and buying home owner junk. > http://www.hellermanntyton.us/products_solar.aspx > > > On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 2:42 AM, Kelly Larson wrote: > Thanks, Andrew. I have a stack of SolarPro waiting for the rain to hit. > Looks like we are getting some soon. (Thank goodness) > > Blessings, > Kelly > > > On Feb 4, 2014, at 11:02 PM, Andrew Truitt wrote: > >> >> Kelly - Here are a couple of SolarPro articles that you might find helpful: >> >> >> http://solarprofessional.com/articles/design-installation/ground-mounted-pv >> >> http://solarprofessional.com/articles/products-equipment/racking/ground-mount-pv-racking-systems/page/0/1 >> >> >> >> >> For a brighter energy future, >> >> >> Andrew Truitt >> >> Principal >> Truitt Renewable Energy Consulting, LLC >> >> (202) 486-7507 >> >> LinkedIn Profile >> >> Company Website >> >> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional ID: 032407-66 >> >> Colorado Journeyman Electrician License No.: 600132 >> >> >> >> >> >> "Don't get me wrong: I love nuclear energy! It's just that I prefer fusion >> to fission. And it just so happens that there's an enormous fusion reactor >> safely banked a few million miles from us. It delivers more than we could >> ever use in just about 8 minutes. And it's wireless!" >> >> ~William McDonough >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 9:58 PM, Kelly Larson wrote: >> Wow, William. Thank you for all the details. One size clearly doesn't fit >> all! I like the page with all the different wire management options you've >> used. Somebody tell me why we still don't have this taken care of WITH the >> racking... Shesh. >> >> Blessings, >> Kelly >> >> >> >> On Feb 4, 2014, at 8:47 PM, >> wrote: >> >>> Kelly: >>> >>> Ground mount racking choice is determined on a case-by-case basis. If the >>> ground is flat and area plentiful, we use ballasted on gravel (Dyno-Raxx). >>> If you need to seasonally adjust, we like the DPW MPM. If the ground is >>> sloped other than gradually south, top of pole mounts may be your choice. >>> For flat ground, low tilt (grid-tied) “fence post” arrays like the DPW LGM >>> work well. For high wind areas, consider the DPW TTRGM on piers spanned by >>> strut. >>> >>> Lest anyone think I am the cheering section for DPW, I suggest you avoid >>> the DPW P6 or P8 “Tilt Kit” assemblies. The brackets are flimsy. Also, >>> avoid DPW’s L-feet. They are bent aluminum and come pre-stress cracked at >>> no extra cost. For L-feet, use Unirac “Serrated L-feet.” >>> >>> It is refreshing to hear someone ask about wire management upfront. All >>> too often this is an afterthought. In the industry vacuum we have been >>> developing wire management systems on an ongoing basis. Below is a link >>> that depicts some of our ideas. >>> >>> http://www.millersolar.com/public_html/MillerSolar/practices/PV_wiring/_PV_Wiring2.html >>> >>> The Code now requires wire shielding on “readily accessible” PV which means >>> ground mount. Just managing the wire is not enough, you must shield it from >>> touch. One option is to enclose the PV in chain link, which ramps up the >>> ugly factor (I don’t think three rail pasture fence or even barbed wire >>> complies). Once you fence the array you can dispense with shielding, but >>> you still don’t want the leads dangling in a year or two, so avoid any >>> flavor of plastic wire ties. There have been studies proving they don’t >>> last (US Navy is one source). >>> >>> We have looked at racking members with larger interior cross section (i.e. >>> Pr
Re: [RE-wrenches] Wire Shielding (was Best Ground Racking?)
Thanks, Howie. It is metal, fabric or what? Blessings, Kelly On Feb 5, 2014, at 7:34 AM, Howie Michaelson wrote: > We've used SolarScrim - it works fine, reasonable cost. Used it on a > 100kW system and went up fast, looks neat. We used it under the array, > changing from our original plan to use it as a perimeter. It is unclear > whether many AHJs will find it acceptable shielding in either > configuration, particularly if it is in any sort of public location. > > Howie > -- > Howie Michaelson > NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ > > Catamount Solar, LLC > Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service > VT Solar Electric & Hot Water Incentive Partner > http://www.CatamountSolar.com > 802-272-0004 > > > On Wed, February 5, 2014 8:57 am, Dave Click wrote: >> A colleague found this online the other day as one potential option for >> shielding the wires for a ground-/pole-mount system: >> http://www.solarscrim.com/index.php >> >> No personal experience, though. Looks like they may ship with black zip >> ties but Sunbundler ties (or others) would be an easy swap. >> >> Didn't notice that REC residential/AEE had been sold. It looks like >> SolarCity, Vivint, and Sunrun are just taking turns buying every smaller >> solar company to make sure that the others don't get them. >> >> On 2014/2/4, 23:47, will...@millersolar.com wrote: >>> >>> Kelly: >>> >>> Ground mount racking choice is determined on a case-by-case basis. If >>> the ground is flat and area plentiful, we use ballasted on gravel >>> (Dyno-Raxx). If you need to seasonally adjust, we like the DPW MPM. >>> If the ground is sloped other than gradually south, top of pole mounts >>> may be your choice. For flat ground, low tilt (grid-tied) "fence >>> post" arrays like the DPW LGM work well. For high wind areas, >>> consider the DPW TTRGM on piers spanned by strut. >>> >>> Lest anyone think I am the cheering section for DPW, I suggest you >>> avoid the DPW P6 or P8 "Tilt Kit" assemblies. The brackets are >>> flimsy. Also, avoid DPW's L-feet. They are bent aluminum and come >>> pre-stress cracked at no extra cost. For L-feet, use Unirac "Serrated >>> L-feet." >>> >>> It is refreshing to hear someone ask about wire management upfront. >>> All too often this is an afterthought. In the industry vacuum we have >>> been developing wire management systems on an ongoing basis. Below is >>> a link that depicts some of our ideas. >>> >>> http://www.millersolar.com/public_html/MillerSolar/practices/PV_wiring/_PV_Wiring2.html >>> >>> The Code now requires wire shielding on "readily accessible" PV which >>> means ground mount. Just managing the wire is not enough, you must >>> shield it from touch. One option is to enclose the PV in chain link, >>> which ramps up the ugly factor (I don't think three rail pasture fence >>> or even barbed wire complies). Once you fence the array you can >>> dispense with shielding, but you still don't want the leads dangling >>> in a year or two, so avoid any flavor of plastic wire ties. There have >>> been studies proving they don't last (US Navy is one source). >>> >>> We have looked at racking members with larger interior cross section >>> (i.e. Pro-Solar) with the intent of running AC and DC leads inside and >>> we have even mocked up a few, but fitting leads and the proprietary >>> nuts into the same channel has proven impractical. >>> >>> Good luck. >>> >>> William Miller >>> >>> PS: Speaking of racking systems, did anyone get the news that >>> SnapNRack and indeed the entire REC Residential juggernaut has been >>> sold? Read the rest of this story >>> <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001DOU7toids4P6EbtZ8amZnWIPqfwSVSQprZxgWcCDNMwVujGRFeNr6kDDQxv8reDLHOjQsU5ZAbim7nwyi2LH1WCwpxjpydyrqtwAXR7rGEE1Vv9y6CHdApOn8xu7viO-boKxfR0vxuRWZuQZUsi31k7EuNfvsnYtZxiDLh9hiU2snspkUXkwVWlu0bEQXhPr6iN048ijV9vyy42Nc0lSkRY8eR4Vuhj1x9WG_J42Nw3BUMy2LRo8bPk83rGlFxOIi3a3_xZ86ubEYbyk1MwQDdKVfXOrZiplaNIIzrDh6n_xz1PO28GP4feFeQCk2gd8l_yy_pAgMdOHcKD_IDW7y6eRVPj8LA5FS7-3nIgC4egIz2vMLcdeRCtjg_WNZoRohptTtbcFtULUCOupqpn91wIENm--baFFvHj0TycL7wMKVBZI340LaA==&c=-PYi8jywk0XKsL2vpOkRGCzs2UwO52AqIXjyxYLdwi6HgzYpVBBpKQ==&ch=UHlwvhDu_eij1qcoWtW5qiGLvNITtkXGLCqG4RSjo4k9OQWUYTpu8w==> >>> >>> Wm >>> >>> >>> On Feb 4, 2014, at 4:45 PM, Kelly Larson >> <mailto:so
Re: [RE-wrenches] Best Ground Racking?
Thanks, Andrew. I have a stack of SolarPro waiting for the rain to hit. Looks like we are getting some soon. (Thank goodness) Blessings, Kelly On Feb 4, 2014, at 11:02 PM, Andrew Truitt wrote: > > Kelly - Here are a couple of SolarPro articles that you might find helpful: > > > http://solarprofessional.com/articles/design-installation/ground-mounted-pv > > http://solarprofessional.com/articles/products-equipment/racking/ground-mount-pv-racking-systems/page/0/1 > > > > > For a brighter energy future, > > > Andrew Truitt > > Principal > Truitt Renewable Energy Consulting, LLC > > (202) 486-7507 > > LinkedIn Profile > > Company Website > > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional ID: 032407-66 > > Colorado Journeyman Electrician License No.: 600132 > > > > "Don't get me wrong: I love nuclear energy! It's just that I prefer fusion to > fission. And it just so happens that there's an enormous fusion reactor > safely banked a few million miles from us. It delivers more than we could > ever use in just about 8 minutes. And it's wireless!" > > ~William McDonough > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 9:58 PM, Kelly Larson wrote: > Wow, William. Thank you for all the details. One size clearly doesn't fit > all! I like the page with all the different wire management options you've > used. Somebody tell me why we still don't have this taken care of WITH the > racking... Shesh. > > Blessings, > Kelly > > > > On Feb 4, 2014, at 8:47 PM, > wrote: > >> Kelly: >> >> Ground mount racking choice is determined on a case-by-case basis. If the >> ground is flat and area plentiful, we use ballasted on gravel (Dyno-Raxx). >> If you need to seasonally adjust, we like the DPW MPM. If the ground is >> sloped other than gradually south, top of pole mounts may be your choice. >> For flat ground, low tilt (grid-tied) “fence post” arrays like the DPW LGM >> work well. For high wind areas, consider the DPW TTRGM on piers spanned by >> strut. >> >> Lest anyone think I am the cheering section for DPW, I suggest you avoid the >> DPW P6 or P8 “Tilt Kit” assemblies. The brackets are flimsy. Also, avoid >> DPW’s L-feet. They are bent aluminum and come pre-stress cracked at no >> extra cost. For L-feet, use Unirac “Serrated L-feet.” >> >> It is refreshing to hear someone ask about wire management upfront. All too >> often this is an afterthought. In the industry vacuum we have been >> developing wire management systems on an ongoing basis. Below is a link >> that depicts some of our ideas. >> >> http://www.millersolar.com/public_html/MillerSolar/practices/PV_wiring/_PV_Wiring2.html >> >> The Code now requires wire shielding on “readily accessible” PV which means >> ground mount. Just managing the wire is not enough, you must shield it from >> touch. One option is to enclose the PV in chain link, which ramps up the >> ugly factor (I don’t think three rail pasture fence or even barbed wire >> complies). Once you fence the array you can dispense with shielding, but you >> still don’t want the leads dangling in a year or two, so avoid any flavor of >> plastic wire ties. There have been studies proving they don’t last (US Navy >> is one source). >> >> We have looked at racking members with larger interior cross section (i.e. >> Pro-Solar) with the intent of running AC and DC leads inside and we have >> even mocked up a few, but fitting leads and the proprietary nuts into the >> same channel has proven impractical. >> >> Good luck. >> >> William Miller >> >> PS: Speaking of racking systems, did anyone get the news that SnapNRack and >> indeed the entire REC Residential juggernaut has been sold? Read the rest >> of this story >> >> Wm >> >> >> >> >> On Feb 4, 2014, at 4:45 PM, Kelly Larson wrote: >> >> Thanks, Aaron. How are you handling wire management and connection to the >> ground? >> >> Blessings, >> Kelly >> >> On Feb 4, 2014, at 2:41 PM, Aaron Mandelkorn wrote: >> >> I like SnapNrack 200 Series as well as DPW Solar Multi Pole Mount. >> >> On Feb 4, 2014, at 3:28 PM, Kelly Larson wrote: >> >> >> Hi, >> >> We are looking to install some 4KW ground mounted arrays. What racking are >> you using? Best ground connection? Wire management? The shows have so >>
Re: [RE-wrenches] Best Ground Racking?
Hmmm. I can't tell what it is made of. It looks like landscape fabric. Anyone have experience with this? (Solarscrim.com) Blessings, Kelly On Feb 5, 2014, at 5:57 AM, Dave Click wrote: > A colleague found this online the other day as one potential option for > shielding the wires for a ground-/pole-mount system: > http://www.solarscrim.com/index.php > > No personal experience, though. Looks like they may ship with black zip ties > but Sunbundler ties (or others) would be an easy swap. > > Didn't notice that REC residential/AEE had been sold. It looks like > SolarCity, Vivint, and Sunrun are just taking turns buying every smaller > solar company to make sure that the others don't get them. > > On 2014/2/4, 23:47, will...@millersolar.com wrote: >> Kelly: >> >> Ground mount racking choice is determined on a case-by-case basis. If the >> ground is flat and area plentiful, we use ballasted on gravel (Dyno-Raxx). >> If you need to seasonally adjust, we like the DPW MPM. If the ground is >> sloped other than gradually south, top of pole mounts may be your choice. >> For flat ground, low tilt (grid-tied) “fence post” arrays like the DPW LGM >> work well. For high wind areas, consider the DPW TTRGM on piers spanned by >> strut. >> >> Lest anyone think I am the cheering section for DPW, I suggest you avoid the >> DPW P6 or P8 “Tilt Kit” assemblies. The brackets are flimsy. Also, avoid >> DPW’s L-feet. They are bent aluminum and come pre-stress cracked at no >> extra cost. For L-feet, use Unirac “Serrated L-feet.” >> >> It is refreshing to hear someone ask about wire management upfront. All too >> often this is an afterthought. In the industry vacuum we have been >> developing wire management systems on an ongoing basis. Below is a link >> that depicts some of our ideas. >> >> http://www.millersolar.com/public_html/MillerSolar/practices/PV_wiring/_PV_Wiring2.html >> >> The Code now requires wire shielding on “readily accessible” PV which means >> ground mount. Just managing the wire is not enough, you must shield it from >> touch. One option is to enclose the PV in chain link, which ramps up the >> ugly factor (I don’t think three rail pasture fence or even barbed wire >> complies). Once you fence the array you can dispense with shielding, but you >> still don’t want the leads dangling in a year or two, so avoid any flavor of >> plastic wire ties. There have been studies proving they don’t last (US Navy >> is one source). >> >> We have looked at racking members with larger interior cross section (i.e. >> Pro-Solar) with the intent of running AC and DC leads inside and we have >> even mocked up a few, but fitting leads and the proprietary nuts into the >> same channel has proven impractical. >> >> Good luck. >> >> William Miller >> >> PS: Speaking of racking systems, did anyone get the news that SnapNRack and >> indeed the entire REC Residential juggernaut has been sold? Read the rest >> of this story >> >> Wm >> >> >> >> >> On Feb 4, 2014, at 4:45 PM, Kelly Larson wrote: >> >> Thanks, Aaron. How are you handling wire management and connection to the >> ground? >> >> Blessings, >> Kelly >> >> On Feb 4, 2014, at 2:41 PM, Aaron Mandelkorn wrote: >> >> I like SnapNrack 200 Series as well as DPW Solar Multi Pole Mount. >> >> On Feb 4, 2014, at 3:28 PM, Kelly Larson wrote: >> >> >> Hi, >> >> We are looking to install some 4KW ground mounted arrays. What racking are >> you using? Best ground connection? Wire management? The shows have so >> many choices, and I keep doing the same ol thing... >> >> Blessings, >> Kelly >> >> Kelly Larson >> Electrical Engineer >> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional >> IREC Certified Master Trainer >> CA Electrical Contractor# 868189 >> SolarKelly.com >> >> >> ___ >> List sponsored by Home Power magazine >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches
Re: [RE-wrenches] Best Ground Racking?
Wow, William. Thank you for all the details. One size clearly doesn't fit all! I like the page with all the different wire management options you've used. Somebody tell me why we still don't have this taken care of WITH the racking... Shesh. Blessings, Kelly On Feb 4, 2014, at 8:47 PM, wrote: > Kelly: > > Ground mount racking choice is determined on a case-by-case basis. If the > ground is flat and area plentiful, we use ballasted on gravel (Dyno-Raxx). > If you need to seasonally adjust, we like the DPW MPM. If the ground is > sloped other than gradually south, top of pole mounts may be your choice. > For flat ground, low tilt (grid-tied) “fence post” arrays like the DPW LGM > work well. For high wind areas, consider the DPW TTRGM on piers spanned by > strut. > > Lest anyone think I am the cheering section for DPW, I suggest you avoid the > DPW P6 or P8 “Tilt Kit” assemblies. The brackets are flimsy. Also, avoid > DPW’s L-feet. They are bent aluminum and come pre-stress cracked at no extra > cost. For L-feet, use Unirac “Serrated L-feet.” > > It is refreshing to hear someone ask about wire management upfront. All too > often this is an afterthought. In the industry vacuum we have been > developing wire management systems on an ongoing basis. Below is a link that > depicts some of our ideas. > > http://www.millersolar.com/public_html/MillerSolar/practices/PV_wiring/_PV_Wiring2.html > > The Code now requires wire shielding on “readily accessible” PV which means > ground mount. Just managing the wire is not enough, you must shield it from > touch. One option is to enclose the PV in chain link, which ramps up the > ugly factor (I don’t think three rail pasture fence or even barbed wire > complies). Once you fence the array you can dispense with shielding, but you > still don’t want the leads dangling in a year or two, so avoid any flavor of > plastic wire ties. There have been studies proving they don’t last (US Navy > is one source). > > We have looked at racking members with larger interior cross section (i.e. > Pro-Solar) with the intent of running AC and DC leads inside and we have even > mocked up a few, but fitting leads and the proprietary nuts into the same > channel has proven impractical. > > Good luck. > > William Miller > > PS: Speaking of racking systems, did anyone get the news that SnapNRack and > indeed the entire REC Residential juggernaut has been sold? Read the rest of > this story > > Wm > > > > > On Feb 4, 2014, at 4:45 PM, Kelly Larson wrote: > > Thanks, Aaron. How are you handling wire management and connection to the > ground? > > Blessings, > Kelly > > On Feb 4, 2014, at 2:41 PM, Aaron Mandelkorn wrote: > > I like SnapNrack 200 Series as well as DPW Solar Multi Pole Mount. > > On Feb 4, 2014, at 3:28 PM, Kelly Larson wrote: > > > Hi, > > We are looking to install some 4KW ground mounted arrays. What racking are > you using? Best ground connection? Wire management? The shows have so many > choices, and I keep doing the same ol thing... > > Blessings, > Kelly > > Kelly Larson > Electrical Engineer > NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional > IREC Certified Master Trainer > CA Electrical Contractor# 868189 > SolarKelly.com > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Best Ground Racking?
Great. Many thanks, Jerry! On Feb 4, 2014, at 3:39 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote: > We use holes with concrete for a small array its less expensive > > On Feb 4, 2014 3:37 PM, "Kelly Larson" wrote: > Thanks for your reply, Jerry. How do you attach them to the ground? > Concrete? Driven? > > Blessings, > Kelly > > On Feb 4, 2014, at 3:30 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote: > >> We use unirac ULA good engineering not much on wire management >> Jerry >> >> On Feb 4, 2014 2:29 PM, "Kelly Larson" wrote: >> Hi, >> >> We are looking to install some 4KW ground mounted arrays. What racking are >> you using? Best ground connection? Wire management? The shows have so >> many choices, and I keep doing the same ol thing... >> >> Blessings, >> Kelly >> >> Kelly Larson >> Electrical Engineer >> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional >> IREC Certified Master Trainer >> CA Electrical Contractor# 868189 >> SolarKelly.com >> >> >> ___ >> List sponsored by Home Power magazine >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> ___ >> List sponsored by Home Power magazine >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Best Ground Racking?
Thanks for your reply, Jerry. How do you attach them to the ground? Concrete? Driven? Blessings, Kelly On Feb 4, 2014, at 3:30 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote: > We use unirac ULA good engineering not much on wire management > Jerry > > On Feb 4, 2014 2:29 PM, "Kelly Larson" wrote: > Hi, > > We are looking to install some 4KW ground mounted arrays. What racking are > you using? Best ground connection? Wire management? The shows have so many > choices, and I keep doing the same ol thing... > > Blessings, > Kelly > > Kelly Larson > Electrical Engineer > NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional > IREC Certified Master Trainer > CA Electrical Contractor# 868189 > SolarKelly.com > > > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Best Ground Racking?
Hi, We are looking to install some 4KW ground mounted arrays. What racking are you using? Best ground connection? Wire management? The shows have so many choices, and I keep doing the same ol thing... Blessings, Kelly Kelly Larson Electrical Engineer NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional IREC Certified Master Trainer CA Electrical Contractor# 868189 SolarKelly.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Hidden freight damage
When modules are rec'd, sign all freight bills "with exception" or "subject to inspection." Take LOTS of pictures if there is any hidden damage as it sits on the pallet. If you see any pallets with ANY holes, straps broken, or shrink wrap loose, it's best to take a picture before it gets off the truck. NOTE: if it's got blue shrink wrap on it, it's been repacked - consider refusing the pallet or inspect it thoroughly. If you do have problems, contact the people at the local terminal - they are usually willing to help a bit more than dealing with the corporate folks. Holt E. Kelly Holtek Fireplace & Solar Products 500 Jewell Dr. Waco, TX 76712 www.holteksolar.com 254-751-9111 -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Luke Christy Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 10:47 AM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] Hidden freight damage Wrenches, We have been in business for about 8 years, and up until now, the shipping gods have smiled upon me, but apparently my luck has run out, as I've had 2 costly shipping nightmares within a month, and I'm just wondering what other Wrenches have done to protect themselves from the liability involved in trusting expensive shipments to the freight carriers. Here's my situation: I recently had a pallet of modules shipped, and it arrived with multiple broken modules, due apparently to careless handling,and having had something heavy set on top of the pallet. I have my freight shipments sent to a neighboring business which is kind enough to receive them for me, since they have many full time staff who are always available during business hours to fork shipments off a truck. In this case the forklift driver did not notice the damage (it was not immediately evident), and the delivery was signed for. However, upon picking up the pallet an hour later, I realized that the shipment was damaged, called the freight company immediately to notify them of the damage, and subsequently filed a detailed written claim. I just got notice that my claim was denied by the carrier, evidently without considering any of the photos or the written explanation I submitted with the claim. They simply cited that the shipment had been signed for without noting damage. It is clear to me that the carrier was responsible for the damage, yet apparently because the damage was hidden and the BOL was signed, they can leave me holding the bag for a significant amount of money. This particular incident could have been worse, but it is the first time I've had it happen and it certainly makes me worried about future deliveries. It suddenly seems like an unacceptable liability to have others sign for my deliveries without a thorough inspection. I asked my distributor whether the shipments have any insurance on them, and the person I spoke with didn't know the answer. So my $50 Ebay shipment is insured, but my $50,000 worth of equipment isn't? My insurance agent says that I can make a claim on my commercial insurance, but advised against it in this case, since the loss was only around $1K, and is guaranteed to raise my future premiums. I know that things get damaged or lost all the time in shipment, and I'm wondering how other businesses handle it. Businesses that do larger volume must have damaged freight all the time. Is it just impossible to get freight companies to take responsibility for damage that is not immediately evident, since they are acting as judge on their own behalf? Do you just refuse to sign the bill of lading until you've examined all the contents of the packages (this is a logistical nightmare in most cases)? Do you just chalk it up to the cost of doing business and/or make claims to your commercial insurance? Would appreciate your thoughts / experiences with this issue. Thanks. - Luke Luke Christy NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalT: Certification #031409-25 NABCEP Certified Solar Heating InstallerT: Certification #ST032611-03 CoSEIA Certified PV Installer Solar Gain Services, LLC PO Box 531 Monte Vista, CO. 81144 sgsrenewab...@gmail.com 719.588.3044 www.sgsrenewables.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-r
Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase commercial
Be sure to read Enphase's tech sheet on center tap of branch circuits. Holt E. Kelly Holtek Fireplace & Solar Products 500 Jewell Dr. Waco, TX 76712 <http://www.holteksolar.com/> www.holteksolar.com 254-751-9111 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Nathan Stumpff Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2013 2:28 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase commercial Hi Eric, It is 25 inverters on a 20A circuit, but only on 208 three phase. Each micro connects to the cable in an alternating way (L1/L2, then L2/L3, then L3/L1, etc.) so with 25 micros there are either 8 or 9 micros on each combination. 9 x 1.0 A x 1.732 (square root of 3) x 1.25 = 19.48 A = 20 A breaker Cheers, -Nathan -- Nathan J. Stumpff NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional #091209-175 NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer #032412-14 Project Manager | Arctic Sun, LLC nat...@arcticsun-llc.com <mailto:nat...@arcticsun-llc.com> | (907) 457-1297 www.reina-llc.com <http://www.reina-llc.com/> | www.arcticsun-llc.com <http://www.arcticsun-llc.com/> <http://www.facebook.com/ArcticSunLLC> From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org <mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of SunHarvest Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2013 10:52 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase commercial Hey Wrenches & Nick Soleil (with whom I worked at APS for a time I believe...), I'm not familiar with Enphase commercial applications and am currently working through a commercial design. Enphase, on their M215 datasheets claim up to 25 micros per branch, at 1.0A each, with each branch terminating at a 20A breaker. By my calculations, 25 micros at 1.0A each (25A*1.25=31.25A) need to terminate at a 40A breaker. Anyone know what I'm missing or know how the 20A breaker design gets past the AHJ? Eric Stikes SunHarvest (530) 798-3738 <>___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] transformerless inverters and conductor colors
Even though they say "Photovoltaic" in the spec sheet, I am not sure that this is "PV Wire". I don't see anywhere that it actually uses those exact words, and that is the designation in the NEC. Blessings, Kelly On Sep 27, 2013, at 10:38 AM, August Goers wrote: > Marco, > > Yes, there is single jacketed PV wire. I've attached a spec sheet for some > 1000 V wire we've been using. I don't know anything about the actual wiring > construction and why single versus double jacketing may or may not be used. I > just know it needs to be listed for the purpose. > > Best, August > > From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org > [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Marco > Mangelsdorf > Sent: Friday, September 27, 2013 10:28 AM > To: 'RE-wrenches' > Subject: [RE-wrenches] transformerless inverters and conductor colors > > Thanks, August. > > OK, so I’ve found “PV wire” that’s double-insulated. (See attached spec > sheet from Falcon wire.) > > Is there PV wire out there that’s just got a single insulation layer that > qualifies as per what came from that helpful article below? > > marco > USE-2 is a standard wire designated for underground service entrance, > typically used to connect terminals of a variety of service equipment. PV > wire is specifically designated for use in PV module interconnections. Both > cables are rated for 90oC wet or dry. PV wire, however, has thicker > insulation to withstand the harsh environments frequently found in PV > installations. USE-2 carries a 600V rating, whereas PV wire can be rated at > 600V, 1000V or 2000V. There are separate ratings with increased insulation > thickness for each cable. > > Both USE-2 and PV wire can be used with grounded systems, but only PV wire > may be used with ungrounded systems per NEC 2008. Since USE-2 has typically > been installed underground or in environments where flame is unlikely, it > usually does not require a flame retardant rating.The PV wire designation > does include a VW-1 flame test requirement. Both ratings are sunlight > resistant, but the PV wire rating applies a more stringent test requirement > of 720 hours in weatherometer vs. 300 hour weatherometer test for USE-2. > > > From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org > [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of August Goers > Sent: Friday, September 27, 2013 4:18 AM > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] transformerless inverters and conductor colors > > Marco, > > My understanding is that PV wire is a separate listing. Exposed DC wiring > with ungrounded non-isolated systems must be PV wire. USE-2 wire is not > necessarily PV wire unless listed and labeled as PV wire. Here's a decent > article: > > http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2010/11/performancecost-trade-offs-in-pv-systems-wiringcabling-selection > > Best, August > > From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org > [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Marco > Mangelsdorf > Sent: Friday, September 27, 2013 12:24 AM > To: 'RE-wrenches' > Subject: [RE-wrenches] transformerless inverters and conductor colors > > Thanks, Glen. > > This brings up the question of what exactly constitutes “PV Wire.” “PV > wire” does not necessarily = double-insulated wire which I thought is > required with ungrounded PV systems on the DC side at least until you hit an > enclosure and enclosed raceway where you can transition to THWN-2 wire. Is > there a clear and unambiguous definition out there of what constitutes “PV > Wire”? To some XLP/USE-2/RHW-2 wire is “PV Wire.” > > marco > > 2008 NEC > > 690.35 Ungrounded Photovoltaic Power Systems. > Photovoltaic power systems shall be permitted to operate with ungrounded > photovoltaic source and output circuits where the system complies with > 690.35(A) through (G). > (A) Disconnects. > (B) Overcurrent Protection. > (C) Ground-Fault Protection. > (D) The photovoltaic source conductors shall consist of the following: > (1) Nonmetallic jacketed multiconductor cables > (2) Conductors installed in raceways, or > (3) Conductors listed and identified as Photovoltaic (PV) Wire > installed as exposed, single conductors. > > Raceway. An enclosed channel of metal or nonmetallic materials designed > expressly for holding wires, cables, or busbars, with additional functions as > permitted in this Code. Raceways include, but are not limited to, rigid metal > conduit, rigid nonmetallic conduit, intermediate metal conduit, liquidtight &g
Re: [RE-wrenches] transformerless inverters and conductor colors
Hi Marco, I am pretty sure that being double insulated is part of the definition of PV Wire. Blessings, Kelly On Sep 27, 2013, at 10:27 AM, Marco Mangelsdorf wrote: > Thanks, August. > > OK, so I’ve found “PV wire” that’s double-insulated. (See attached spec > sheet from Falcon wire.) > > Is there PV wire out there that’s just got a single insulation layer that > qualifies as per what came from that helpful article below? > > marco > USE-2 is a standard wire designated for underground service entrance, > typically used to connect terminals of a variety of service equipment. PV > wire is specifically designated for use in PV module interconnections. Both > cables are rated for 90oC wet or dry. PV wire, however, has thicker > insulation to withstand the harsh environments frequently found in PV > installations. USE-2 carries a 600V rating, whereas PV wire can be rated at > 600V, 1000V or 2000V. There are separate ratings with increased insulation > thickness for each cable. > > Both USE-2 and PV wire can be used with grounded systems, but only PV wire > may be used with ungrounded systems per NEC 2008. Since USE-2 has typically > been installed underground or in environments where flame is unlikely, it > usually does not require a flame retardant rating.The PV wire designation > does include a VW-1 flame test requirement. Both ratings are sunlight > resistant, but the PV wire rating applies a more stringent test requirement > of 720 hours in weatherometer vs. 300 hour weatherometer test for USE-2. > > > From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org > [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of August Goers > Sent: Friday, September 27, 2013 4:18 AM > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] transformerless inverters and conductor colors > > Marco, > > My understanding is that PV wire is a separate listing. Exposed DC wiring > with ungrounded non-isolated systems must be PV wire. USE-2 wire is not > necessarily PV wire unless listed and labeled as PV wire. Here's a decent > article: > > http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2010/11/performancecost-trade-offs-in-pv-systems-wiringcabling-selection > > Best, August > > From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org > [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Marco > Mangelsdorf > Sent: Friday, September 27, 2013 12:24 AM > To: 'RE-wrenches' > Subject: [RE-wrenches] transformerless inverters and conductor colors > > Thanks, Glen. > > This brings up the question of what exactly constitutes “PV Wire.” “PV > wire” does not necessarily = double-insulated wire which I thought is > required with ungrounded PV systems on the DC side at least until you hit an > enclosure and enclosed raceway where you can transition to THWN-2 wire. Is > there a clear and unambiguous definition out there of what constitutes “PV > Wire”? To some XLP/USE-2/RHW-2 wire is “PV Wire.” > > marco > > 2008 NEC > > 690.35 Ungrounded Photovoltaic Power Systems. > Photovoltaic power systems shall be permitted to operate with ungrounded > photovoltaic source and output circuits where the system complies with > 690.35(A) through (G). > (A) Disconnects. > (B) Overcurrent Protection. > (C) Ground-Fault Protection. > (D) The photovoltaic source conductors shall consist of the following: > (1) Nonmetallic jacketed multiconductor cables > (2) Conductors installed in raceways, or > (3) Conductors listed and identified as Photovoltaic (PV) Wire > installed as exposed, single conductors. > > Raceway. An enclosed channel of metal or nonmetallic materials designed > expressly for holding wires, cables, or busbars, with additional functions as > permitted in this Code. Raceways include, but are not limited to, rigid metal > conduit, rigid nonmetallic conduit, intermediate metal conduit, liquidtight > flexible conduit, flexible metallic tubing, flexible metal conduit, > electrical nonmetallic tubing, electrical metallic tubing, underfloor > raceways, cellular concrete floor raceways, cellular metal floor raceways, > surface raceways, wireways, and busways. > > Reads to me like you can transition to THWN-2 inside a rooftop jbox from the > PV wire under the modules, as long as it is in a raceway. > > -Glenn Burt > #10.pdf>___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipe
Re: [RE-wrenches] transformerless inverters and conductor colors
Hi Marco, I don't think there are grounded current carrying conductors on the array side of any of the UL listed transformerless inverters available today in the US. NEC reserves the color white for grounded current carrying conductors, so for a NEC compliance, the white wire is a purchasing error. Red, (or some other color other than white, grey, green, bare, or green with yellow stripe), would be NEC compliant. Blessings, Kelly Kelly Larson 707-223-3209 Box 504 Ukiah, CA 95482 Electrical Engineer NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional ISPQ Master Trainer CA Electrical Contractor# 868189 SolarKelly.com On Sep 23, 2013, at 12:27 PM, Marco Mangelsdorf wrote: > Hi all, > > We’re doing more and more installs with TL inverters (SMA and P1). > > I’m using double-insulated wire from the array string to the first enclosure, > as in j-box, and then transitioning to standard THHN/THWN wire. > > I recently purchased some of that #10 double-insulated wire, getting a spool > of black and white. > > Then after receiving the two spools it occurred to me: since the array is > ungrounded, as far as there being no grounded conductor in the circuit, did I > blow it by getting a spool of white wire? > > What sayeth you all? Can I not use that white wire in those array circuits > for TL inverters? > > Thanks, > marco > > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Sundanzer questions
I've got several customers with them. I recently changed one from a 12V to 24V system. I called and got right through to a tech. (Turns out you don't need to change the light bulb - they use a 24V one for all 12/24V models.) Blessings, Kelly On Sep 13, 2013, at 7:13 AM, Chris Daum wrote: > Wrenches: We've sold perhaps 10 of the Sundanzer fridges & freezers, with no > complaints other than one customer with a broken handle (which he said was > poorly designed). It was nearly a year to get a replacement. > > Best, > > Chris Daum > Oasis Montana Inc. > 406-777-4309 > 406-777-0830 fax > www.oasismontana.com > > From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org > [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of frenergy > Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 9:31 PM > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sundanzer questions > > I asked a dealer friend of mine in Southern British Columbia of his > experience with Sundanzer and got this response: > > I have sold only 7 of the 8cuFt. SunDanzers and know of two other owned by an > electrician. No complaints from anyone and I have no experience with > manufacturer support other than ordering them. Their conservation of > electricity performance is excellent, but don’t put an Elk in the freezer and > expect it to freeze within a short time. The compressor is small and it > freezes slowly. > > Kip Drobish > > Oso Renewable Energy > > So wrenches beware of stuffing an elk in your Sundanzer. Or, Man, that's a > deal breaker, I can't stuff an elk in my freezer. > > Or, the other day I was stuffing an elk in my Sundanzer and the door wouldn't > close with those dang legs sticking up. Or. > > Sorry, couldn't resist. > > Bill > > Feather River Solar Electric > > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: Brian Mehalic > To: RE-wrenches > Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 7:42 AM > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Sundanzer questions > > SEI has one at our lab yard for student use that has been working fine for a > handful of years; and we donated one to the local brewery that has been > "chugging" (pun intended!) along fine for about 2 years now. > > Brian > > > Brian Mehalic > NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional™ R031508-59 > IREC ISPQ Certified Affiliated Instructor/PV US-0132 > > PV Curriculum Developer and Instructor > Solar Energy International > http://www.solarenergy.org > > > On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Jonathan Hill wrote: > We've sold about 100 or so with no problems! > > Jonny Hill > Solar applications engineer > 530-559-3781 > solar...@gmail.com > > > > On Sep 11, 2013, at 12:53 PM, jay peltz wrote: > >> Hi Allan >> >> I've had mine for 4-5 years now, no issues >> 12 cuft, freezer, running on DC >> >> Jay >> >> Peltz power >> >> >> >> >> On Sep 11, 2013, at 12:27 PM, Allan Sindelar >> wrote: >> >>> Wrenches. >>> We have sold four Sundanzer chest refrigerators or freezers over the last >>> ten years. All have worked without a hitch. Today I got a call from a >>> customer asking about DC refrigerators; when I mentioned Sundanzer, she >>> stopped me. She said the reviews on Amazon convinced her not to buy one. I >>> checked the reviews; of nine (among all four chest models), I read five >>> 5-star, one 4-star, one 3-star, and two 1-star. The 1- and 3-star reviews >>> were about both failure of the units and lack of support from the >>> manufacturer. >>> >>> So I'm curious: who has sold many of these? How have they performed? And >>> what has been your experience with dealer support? >>> Thanks, Allan >>> -- >>> Allan Sindelar >>> al...@positiveenergysolar.com >>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional >>> NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional >>> New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician >>> Founder and Chief Technology Officer >>> Positive Energy, Inc., a Certified B CorporationTM >>> 3209 Richards Lane >>> Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 >>> 505 424-1112 office 780-2738 cell >>> www.positiveenergysolar.com >>> > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Advice Needed: L16 Accident! Damage Questions
Hi Jeff, I agree with William, but I also know how we try to help our customers. (Murphy's law is always in effect!) I would caution you in making any assessment of the batteries. You really can't tell how much damage there is. My story involved a cracked post INSIDE the battery, un-viewable from the outside. This results in a high resistance connection, with melting/high temperature at the affected post. I had one that didn't show right away, but later the customer called with "a strange smell" coming from the bank. On inspection we discovered a large hole in the top/side of one of the batteries! Blessings, Kelly Kelly Larson 707-223-3209 Box 504 Ukiah, CA 95482 Electrical Engineer NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional ISPQ Master Trainer CA Electrical Contractor# 868189 SolarKelly.com "I'd put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I hope we don't have to wait until oil and coal run out before we tackle that." ~ Thomas Edison On Sep 13, 2013, at 12:11 AM, Jeff Clearwater wrote: > Hi Wrenchies, > > Any Input would be greatly appreciated! > > Jeff Clearwater wrote: >> >> Esteemed Wrenches, >> >> I need your advice on this most unfortunate situation. >> >> I arranged a purchase of 16 Trojan L16 RE-Bs for a client and they went to >> pick them up. They didn't secure them well on their flatbed tralier and as >> they climbed their windy mountain driveway they lost 4 of the batteries over >> the side of the road and several more fell on their side on the trailer. >> >> The damage falls in 3 categories: >> >> 1) Broken or cracked posts, caps and handles, >> >> 2) Loss of Acid >> >> 3) Unknown damage due to shock of falling . . . >> >> It's the last category that concerns me - I'm recommending they replace the >> ones that took a tumble enough to break posts. (although experience with >> fixing posts would be welcomed) >> >> And the loss of acid doesn't seem extensive - the voltage is holding fine - >> perhaps we'll just add water or perhaps acid and water - we'll work that >> one. (though any input on amount of acid lost before needing to add acid >> would be welcomed input) (all but one seem to be above the plates still). >> >> But I'm seeking advice on whether you can trust an L16 that has violently >> fallen on its side. Can the force of a fall like that loosen or crack >> plates and cause problems that show up later? >> >> Here's the summary of damage: >> >> Battery Voltage Damage Fill Level >> 1 6.342 >> >> 2 6.343 >> >> 3 6.341 >> >> 4 6.318 >> >> 5 6.351 >> >> 6 6.315 >> >> 7 6.349 >> >> 8 6.314 >> >> 9 6.344 Broken Post >> 106.348 Cracked Post >> 11 6.33 >> >> 12 6.336 >> >> 13 6.304 Broken Handle >> 14 6.346 Broken Handle >> 15 6.334 2 Broken Posts, Case Cracked, Broken Handle Plate Exposed >> 16 6.34 >> >> Thanks! >> >> >> -- >> Jeff Clearwater >> Village Power Design >> Renewable Energy Design & Installation >> Ecovillage Design Consultant >> >> Licensed Solar Contractor in CA - C-46 >> www.villagepower.com >> 413-559-9763 >> ~~ >> >> >> -- >> Jeff Clearwater >> Village Power Design >> Renewable Energy Design & Installation >> Ecovillage Design Consultant >> >> NABCEP™ Certified Solar PV Installer >> Licensed Solar Contractor in CA - C-46 >> www.villagepower.com >> 413-559-9763 >> ~~ >> >> ___ >> List sponsored by Home Power magazine >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Minimum Lux needed
Hi Benn, It's from my own experience. I teach classes and find that is around the minimum irradiance for full voltage. Of course it is a little different for different modules, and levels of diffuse versus direct sunlight. But the difference in time between when a spot will see 100 and 300W per square meter on modules on a clear morning is a few minutes. And would their detector be pointed at the sun already? What is considered "usable electricity"? If the tracker is connected to a gridtied inverter, it would be inverter wakeup that would determine all this, I would think. It sounds like you could use some scientific research. Likely NREL has research on this, but they would probably call it irradiance, light intensity, or something like that, which could be converted to LUX. Blessings, Kelly On Sep 5, 2013, at 9:28 AM, Benn At DayStarSolar wrote: > Thank you Kelly. > Not that I don't believe you, but can you provide any data to back this up? > I should have asked for that upfront. > > benn > Sent from a 'smart' phone, with touch screen keys. Please excuse shortcuts > and typos. > > On 2013-09-05, at 10:24 AM, Kelly Larson wrote: > >> Hi Benn, >> >> It's around 200W per square meter. >> >> Blessings, >> Kelly >> >> Kelly Larson >> Electrical Engineer >> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional >> ISPQ Master Trainer >> CA Electrical Contractor# 868189 >> SolarKelly.com >> >> On Sep 5, 2013, at 9:06 AM, Benn At DayStarSolar wrote: >> >>> Wrenches, >>> I was asked... What is the minimum Lux level required to make usable >>> electricity with a commonly installed monocrystaline PV module. >>> >>> The question is for the purpose of designing a tracker that will not >>> operate until a particular threshold is reached. >>> Thanks, >>> benn >>> Sent from a 'smart' phone, with touch screen keys. Please excuse shortcuts >>> and typos. >>> ___ >>> List sponsored by Home Power magazine >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List-Archive: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out participant bios: >>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> >> ___ >> List sponsored by Home Power magazine >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Minimum Lux needed
Hi Benn, It's around 200W per square meter. Blessings, Kelly Kelly Larson Electrical Engineer NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional ISPQ Master Trainer CA Electrical Contractor# 868189 SolarKelly.com On Sep 5, 2013, at 9:06 AM, Benn At DayStarSolar wrote: > Wrenches, > I was asked... What is the minimum Lux level required to make usable > electricity with a commonly installed monocrystaline PV module. > > The question is for the purpose of designing a tracker that will not operate > until a particular threshold is reached. > Thanks, > benn > Sent from a 'smart' phone, with touch screen keys. Please excuse shortcuts > and typos. > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback AC coupling Sunpower?
Ray, The battery-based inverter in an AC-coupled system should not be grid-interactive. The grid passes through the BB inverter to the grid-direct inverter(s). The BB inverter is there to create a stable grid-like signal for the grid-direct inverters when the grid is not present, and to manage the batteries. Thus, the pass-through AC capability of the BB inverters normally (there is a complicated work-around) must be able to handle all of the PV AC output, when loads are low. You probably are aware, but to make it clear in this thread: the system needs to have some method to protect the batteries from overcharging, as a result of the grid-direct inverter output when the grid is down and loads can't use all the solar energy available. With the Sunny Islands it's done by a signal that reduces output from the Sunny Boys without disconnecting them. With Outback and others it's done with a installer-designed relay that disconnects the grid-direct inverter when the battery voltage gets to a set point. We haven't done an AC-coupled system with the Radian, yet. Sounds like the remote controlled breaker is Outback's approved and listed way to do it. About time. -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Principal Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems NABCEP PV Installation Professional WA Electrical Administrator ke...@whidbeysunwind.com PH & FAX: 360.678.7131 On Jul 30, 2013, at 4:23 PM, Ray Walters wrote: > The Outback rep got me some good info, and I'm liking the Radian with the > Remote controlled breaker to control the GT inverter when the grid is out. > I've heard of quite a few problems related to the Sunny Island frequency > controlled system. > My question is can off grid inverters like the Magnum be AC coupled? I'm > trying to get the price down, and still handle the 240 vac input from the GT > inverter. > I penciled out the Radian and I was topping $10k before installation. This > customer is hoping for a solution under $10k, and closer to $5k if possible. > I think an elegant lower cost solution for Grid tie with battery back up is > in order. A Radian Lite? > For backup, it could even be mod sine, as it wouldn't be much worse than > generator power or the average UPS setup. > > > R.Ray Walters > CTO, Solarray, Inc > Nabcep Certified PV Installer, > Licensed Master Electrician > Solar Design Engineer > 303 505-8760 > > On 7/30/2013 2:59 PM, Ray Walters wrote: >> Hi All; >> >> I know AC coupled systems have been covered before, but I have a new issue: >> positive grounding. A customer with an existing 8kw Sunpower system wants >> to add backup. He was put off by the high cost the Sunny Island, so I was >> steering him towards a single Outback VFX coupled to just one of his 3 >> inverters. The issue is how will the VFX work with positive grounded >> inverters. I'm assuming that since the two inverters will only be connected >> by AC, that the positive vs negative grounding of their separate DC systems >> will not matter. Any experience with this particular scenario: Sunpower >> system AC coupled to an Outback? >> Also, would I even need a GVFX, since the inverter would only be used during >> outages (which might allow a generator to be used later as well) A VFX >> should still AC couple to the GT inverter during an outage, right? >> >> Thanks as always, >> > > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Presentations for Kids
Jason, An hour?! That's the toughest crowd on the planet. But also the most rewarding. I recently did one of those gigs for a school (we did an install there last summer) and did an "audience participation" where a group of three boys were photons, and three girls were electrons, with the teacher being the sun. Had a module set up on a stand and had the teacher send the photons to the mod, and then the electrons moved from the mod to spin me around in an office chair..about a 5 minute thing, but the kids loved it. Also had a solar powered attic fan (the real thing) with a detached module to show them more than just a toy ( protected fan with hardware cloth so no curious fingers could explore the blades) they were able to see what happens when the module is in sunlight and then out of sunlight. Got a lot of "wows" out of that..If you will contact me off list, I will send you the short power point that I used. at the teacher's request I left a copy in the library computer for their future use... Holt E. Kelly Holtek Fireplace & Solar Products 500 Jewell Dr. Waco, TX 76712 www.holteksolar.com <http://www.holteksolar.com/> 254-751-9111 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jason Szumlanski Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2013 6:39 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar Presentations for Kids I'm looking for an idea, project, or pre-made kit to engage a group of 6-10 year old kids for an hour. I've been doing PowerPoint presentations and games in the past for these types of events, but I'm finding it a bit stale. Any ideas to create a little more excitement and wonder? Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] AC Coupling different brands
Hi Jeremy, FYI: I heard that Fronius is the most sensitive of the GT inverters and so the most difficult to "fool" or keep on in an AC coupled system. That was from the Magnum AC Coupling webinar. Blessings, Kelly Kelly Larson Electrical Engineer NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional ISPQ Master Trainer CA Electrical Contractor# 868189 On May 25, 2013, at 6:52 AM, All Solar wrote: > Hope everyone is enjoying their weekend! > I have a system where we have Installed a pair of XW inverters along with a > 10k Fronius inverter. > We have been told that we need to limit the PV watts to the lowest XW > inverter. We have XW capacity in excess of the array, so why can't they > entire array feed the system when the grid is down? > Of course tech support is tougher when you use different brand names, but I'm > sure this has been done in the field already. > Please contact me off list If you can help us out. The customers electrician > on this job has been trying hard to figure it out, but I think he might be in > too deep! > > Jeremy Rodriguez > All Solar > CO. USA > > > Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand! > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex SW Plus ICM Remote anyone?
Thank you, Allan! I wondered about the compatibility. So it sounds like I am looking for an ICM. Blessings, Kelly On May 23, 2013, at 12:19 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote: > Kelly, > I don't know this for certain, but I used an SW+2524 in my own home system > for 8 years (great inverter, by the way), so I have experience with both the > SW and SW+. I would be careful about using the SWRC, which was designed for > (and identical to the control panel on) the SW series, and the entire control > algorithm of the SW+ is different than the SW. Having never tried it, I would > be cautious about compatibility. The ICM was designed for the SW+, I think. > Allan > > Allan Sindelar > al...@positiveenergysolar.com > NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer > NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional > New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician > Founder and Chief Technology Officer > Positive Energy, Inc. > 3209 Richards Lane (note new address) > Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 > 505 424-1112 > www.positiveenergysolar.com > > > > On 5/23/2013 12:55 PM, Kelly Larson wrote: >> Thanks, Bill. That is what they have been doing, but then they loose their >> setpoints... The camp is 1 1/2 hours from me and needs more stability than >> that. I hope the remote fixes the problem. Is that likely? >> >> I am hearing several possibilities for the remote: the SWRC, the ICM, ... >> What do I need? Again, it's an SW Plus 2524 from 2005. >> >> Blessings, >> Kelly >> >> >> On May 23, 2013, at 5:38 AM, frenergy wrote: >> >>> Kelly, >>> >>> When I've had that problem with my SW remote display in the past, a >>> little poke in the reset hole took care of it for me. The remote display >>> looks identical to the one on the inverter. The reset is on the lower left >>> of the display. You lose your settings but it's always brought back the >>> bottom line to be able to see what you're doing. >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> From: Kelly Larson >>> To: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 8:13 AM >>> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex SW Plus ICM Remote anyone? >>> >>> Hello, >>> >>> I have an off-grid client who is having trouble with his SW Plus display. >>> (Second line of display is intermittent). I never installed SW Plus, and >>> don't know the ins and outs of them. I understand I may be able to plug in >>> a remote, (I think called a ICM remote), and be able to reliably get to the >>> settings. Anyone know about this problem? Have a ICM remote for sale? >>> >>> Blessings, >>> Kelly >>> >>> Kelly Larson >>> Box 504 >>> Ukiah, CA 95482 >>> 707-223-3209 >>> Electrical Engineer >>> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional >>> ISPQ Master Trainer >>> CA Electrical Contractor# 868189 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> List sponsored by Home Power magazine >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List-Archive: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out participant bios: >>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> ___ >>> List sponsored by Home Power magazine >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List-Archive: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out participant bios: >>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> >> >> >> ___ >> List sponsored by Home Power magazine >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change email address &am
Re: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex SW Plus ICM Remote anyone?
Thanks, Bill. That is what they have been doing, but then they loose their setpoints... The camp is 1 1/2 hours from me and needs more stability than that. I hope the remote fixes the problem. Is that likely? I am hearing several possibilities for the remote: the SWRC, the ICM, ... What do I need? Again, it's an SW Plus 2524 from 2005. Blessings, Kelly On May 23, 2013, at 5:38 AM, frenergy wrote: > Kelly, > > When I've had that problem with my SW remote display in the past, a > little poke in the reset hole took care of it for me. The remote display > looks identical to the one on the inverter. The reset is on the lower left > of the display. You lose your settings but it's always brought back the > bottom line to be able to see what you're doing. > > Bill > > > > - Original Message - > From: Kelly Larson > To: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 8:13 AM > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex SW Plus ICM Remote anyone? > > Hello, > > I have an off-grid client who is having trouble with his SW Plus display. > (Second line of display is intermittent). I never installed SW Plus, and > don't know the ins and outs of them. I understand I may be able to plug in a > remote, (I think called a ICM remote), and be able to reliably get to the > settings. Anyone know about this problem? Have a ICM remote for sale? > > Blessings, > Kelly > > Kelly Larson > Box 504 > Ukiah, CA 95482 > 707-223-3209 > Electrical Engineer > NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional > ISPQ Master Trainer > CA Electrical Contractor# 868189 > > > > > > > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex SWRC anyone?
Ahh, yes. I remember that now. Many thanks, Brian! So I am looking for a SWRC. Anyone have one for sale? Blessings, Kelly On May 22, 2013, at 8:44 AM, Brian Teitelbaum wrote: > Kelly, > > It was called the “SWRC” > > Brian > > From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org > [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Kelly Larson > Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 8:34 AM > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex SW Plus ICM Remote anyone? > > Thank you, Brian. Am I calling what I am looking for by the right name? > > Blessings, > Kelly > > On May 22, 2013, at 8:24 AM, Brian Teitelbaum wrote: > > > Kelly, > > The SW Plus used the same remote display as the full SW did. At least that > makes it less rare. > > Brian Teitelbaum > AEE Solar > > > > From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org > [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Kelly Larson > Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 8:14 AM > To: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex SW Plus ICM Remote anyone? > > Hello, > > I have an off-grid client who is having trouble with his SW Plus display. > (Second line of display is intermittent). I never installed SW Plus, and > don't know the ins and outs of them. I understand I may be able to plug in a > remote, (I think called a ICM remote), and be able to reliably get to the > settings. Anyone know about this problem? Have a ICM remote for sale? > > Blessings, > Kelly > > Kelly Larson > Box 504 > Ukiah, CA 95482 > 707-223-3209 > Electrical Engineer > NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional > ISPQ Master Trainer > CA Electrical Contractor# 868189 > > > > > > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex SW Plus ICM Remote anyone?
Thank you, Brian. Am I calling what I am looking for by the right name? Blessings, Kelly On May 22, 2013, at 8:24 AM, Brian Teitelbaum wrote: > Kelly, > > The SW Plus used the same remote display as the full SW did. At least that > makes it less rare. > > Brian Teitelbaum > AEE Solar > > > > From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org > [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Kelly Larson > Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 8:14 AM > To: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex SW Plus ICM Remote anyone? > > Hello, > > I have an off-grid client who is having trouble with his SW Plus display. > (Second line of display is intermittent). I never installed SW Plus, and > don't know the ins and outs of them. I understand I may be able to plug in a > remote, (I think called a ICM remote), and be able to reliably get to the > settings. Anyone know about this problem? Have a ICM remote for sale? > > Blessings, > Kelly > > Kelly Larson > Box 504 > Ukiah, CA 95482 > 707-223-3209 > Electrical Engineer > NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional > ISPQ Master Trainer > CA Electrical Contractor# 868189 > > > > > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Xantrex SW Plus ICM Remote anyone?
Hello, I have an off-grid client who is having trouble with his SW Plus display. (Second line of display is intermittent). I never installed SW Plus, and don't know the ins and outs of them. I understand I may be able to plug in a remote, (I think called a ICM remote), and be able to reliably get to the settings. Anyone know about this problem? Have a ICM remote for sale? Blessings, Kelly Kelly Larson Box 504 Ukiah, CA 95482 707-223-3209 Electrical Engineer NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional ISPQ Master Trainer CA Electrical Contractor# 868189 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Fridge recommendations?
Hi Dave, I've been living for years with an ice chest and a freezer for "refrigeration" in my house. The freezer is a tiny chest style, which I keep in the cold shed and freeze gallon bottles. I exchange them once a day and keep the ice chest in my kitchen nice and cool. I bet you could do it without the freezer in Vermont! Blessings, Kelly On Jan 9, 2013, at 11:44 AM, Dave Palumbo wrote: > I’m having difficulty finding a RF in the 16 to 20 cu ft range that uses less > than 350kWh/yr. All of the GE units listed by Energy Star as 300 to 311kWh/yr > are no longer being manufactured according to my local appliance dealers. > > I see a Fridgidaire 18.2 cu ft that uses 335kWh/yr (reviews that I see on > this unit complained of loud clunky noises). > > Sun Frost units are too pricey for this application. > > Any recommendations? > > Thanks, > Dave > > David Palumbo > Independent Power LLC > 462 Solar Way Drive > Hyde Park, VT 05655 > www.independentpowerllc.com > Vermont Solar Partner > 25 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 > > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Options & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] DC, or not DC, Dat is Da question (Two Load Questions)
The light by the inverter is the only DC appliance I routinely recommend nowadays in off grid homes and businesses, unless they have no backup generator. If no backup, every electron counts, and there are some DC appliances, in that case, that can be worth the price and fuss. Blessings, Kelly On Dec 11, 2012, at 10:55 AM, Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems wrote: > Why would one specify DC voltage appliances or lighting for off grid systems > today when we have sub-buck-a-Watt PV solar power? If you have space, you > can make the added power that conventional AC appliances draw for very low > cost. It could even be argued that the cost for DC items, wiring, > distribution gear and labor will cost much more than simply adding more PV > solar and staying all AC. > > I don't like wasting resources and I understand old school thinking when PV > modules were very expensive, but with high efficiency AC appliances and low > cost inverters and PV modules, does it still make any sense? Shine some light > on my thinking. > > Larry Crutcher > Starlight Solar Power Systems > > > > > > On Dec 10, 2012, at 9:12 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote: > > Wrenches, > We still try to encourage prospective off grid customers to do a full load > analysis as an initial step in the system design process. To the point: > > 1) What is a good watt-hours/day figure to use for a typical, modern, new, > carefully chosen, fairly large conventional AC chest freezer, if kept in a > heated indoor location? Assume 65 degrees and seldom opened. > > I will encourage that the freezer be located in a shaded, protected outdoor > location, in order to greatly reduce winter energy consumption, but I need a > good base figure to work with. > > The proposed system will most likely be 48Vnom, so a Sundanzer or similar DC > freezer is out. > > 2) Same question for a ceiling fan, for general slow circulation of winter > heat. The energystar.gov list gives relative cfm efficiency but not wattages. > Is 55W still a good figure to use as a default? > > > I have attached a condensed energystar.gov list for the freezers, but wonder > what other off grid Wrenches typically use. Also, I'm not sure that Wrenches > posts allow attachments, so this may not appear with my message. > > Thank you, > Allan > -- > Allan Sindelar > al...@positiveenergysolar.com > NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer > NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional > New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician > Founder and Chief Technology Officer > Positive Energy, Inc. > 3209 Richards Lane (note new address) > Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 > 505 424-1112 > www.positiveenergysolar.com > > > > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Options & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Options & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Unisolar Intermittent Ground Fault
If you're in Sebastopol you could ask Paul Hernday at Solmetric if the PVA would help. Blessings, Kelly On Nov 26, 2012, at 4:55 PM, Robert Nuese wrote: > Dear Wrenches > > I've been experiencing a troubleshooting problem that you may be able to > help me with. Or, can anyone refer me to someone, maybe an electrical > engineer?, who I could hire to help. > > About 7 years ago I installed Unisolar modules on all the roofs of a complex > of 12 mixed use buildings and one commercial building. These fed the > grid through a variety of Fronius IG and SMA SunnyBoy inverters. > > Ever since, we have had occasional intermittent ground faults on a few of > the roofs, and more frequent ones on one roof. At least some of these I > suspect were caused by the roofer. Standard procedure on the Unisolar > modules is to put two screws through them that hold on the roof ridge > z-strip metal closure piece. These also keep the modules from sliding off > the roof in extreme hot weather. I found a number of screws placed > slightly outside the allowed screw zone. After I'd moved the screws > (and removed the raised metal edges the screws had made in the roof, > and put insulation between roof and module in those locations), this has > seemed to fix some problems. Similarly, putting tefzel patches, per Uni- > solar instructions, on some big dings and scratches may have fixed some > others. > > However, I still occasionally, rather rarely, get ground fault indications > on some inverters, and rather regularly get them on one specific IG 3000. > Some times the indication is just in the software, and the problem disappears > through resetting by disconnecting the inverter and reconnecting to reset the > software. However, on that worst Fronius, it has usually blown the 1 amp > ground fault fuse, indicating that there very likely has been a ground fault. > > I suspect that these ground faults are brought on by thermal expansion and > contraction, that may only occasionally, and briefly, bring hot and ground > elements of the system into close enough proximity. Dampness seems to > play a part, the ground faults almost always occur during the rainy season, > and usually during a rainy period. > > But whenever I get out to the site to test the system, the ground fault is > always gone. I test by disconnecting both wires of each string, measuring > the total voltage across, and then the voltage from each to ground. If there > is a clear voltage to ground, then there is a ground fault, and its location > in > the string can be easily determined. If the voltage steadily goes toward > zero, then a ground fault is not clearly present, and the location of where > one had been is totally obscure. > > I've done very thorough visual inspection of the roofs, and also of the > disconnects, junction boxes, and gutters that the wires pass through. > As mentioned, the modules have had some problems, and I've fixed them > all, as well as can be done. The wires all seem fine. Well connected, neat, > not close to raw metal edges, insulation ok, etc. > > I've asked Unisolar (before they went bankrupt, now they don't answer the > phones), and they've just recommended the testing I've done, and not had > any other ideas. Same with Fronius - they think it's outside of the inverter, > and the blown fuses support that position. > > I could go on with more details about what I've done and thought about, > for instance, is the Fronius too sensitive? But I'll catch my breath and see > if anyone else has some input before I go into more detail. > > SO what am I missing? What test should I do? How can I fix this problem? > > OR does anyone know of somebody with more expertise who I could hire > to help? I'm a fairly experienced solar installer, but I think this might be > something that requires an electrical (or electronic?) engineer with a deep > understanding of electrical theory, and with some advanced test equipment. > Any recommendations? Probably needs to be someone within 100 miles of > Sebastopol CA. > > Thanks, > Robert Nuese > > > > > > > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Options & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] SolAir Wind Turbines
Dear esteemed wrenches, I am working for a school who were donated several SolAir wind turbines. I am trying to figure out if they work. Anyone have any experience with them? By the swept area they are likely 250W machines, (even though they were sold as 1.6KW). I am just wondering if they work, and how well, so we can find a use for them. Blessings, Kelly On Nov 13, 2012, at 7:30 PM, Howie Michaelson wrote: > Todd, > That is a tall pole. Hope those were back mounted and not the Solarworld 2.0 > frames! How far into the ground did you go? With how much cement? Did DP&W > approve the engineering on that? My memory is they didn't approve TPM > heights much over 9'. The largest we've done are 15 module racks, but I > wouldn't imagine going anywhere near that high, particularly without any > specialized accommodations... > > Howie > Howie Michaelson > NABCEP Certified PV Installer > Catamount Solar > www.catamountsolar.com > 802.272.0004 > > Sent from my cellphone > > > toddc...@finestplanet.com wrote: > > ray, > > this has been a learn by trial and error learning experience. i know 12/12 is > ok and 5/12 is not... so somewhere in between those two pitch angles there is > change. > > the latest pole mount i did was a dpw rack with 3 kW on an 8" pole. i am > attaching a 100 kb pix of this monster! > > todd > > > > > > > On Tuesday, November 13, 2012 11:12am, "Ray Walters" said: > > HI Todd; > > That's very interesting. What roof pitch does that happen? I'm guessing > that at a step enough tilt, the frame damage is alleviated? > Also on your tall pole mounts what pole design do you use? I've tried > telescoping type, and guy wires on tall poles. > > Ray > > On 11/13/2012 12:08 PM, toddc...@finestplanet.com wrote: > I have never had good results with roof mounted pv in our heavy (mount > shasta) snow area. the snow tends to creep down the glass and peel the bottom > of the frame off the module... and then the glass breaks as it has no support > in that area. > > so, around here... i do pole mounts WAY up in the air. > > todd > > > > On Tuesday, November 13, 2012 8:04am, "Troy Harvey" > said: > > Hi all, > We have been doing PV installs for years with L-feet and silicone without > problems ever. Even still, gravity flashings seem attractive in shingle > roofs, to provide a second level of security, and a more professional install > (at least in perception). But the cost of these systems in significant in > high snow load areas where we often have L-feet every 2 feet on center, to > evenly load the structure below. In todays costs, the feet could cost as much > as 33% of the panel value. > I'm wondering what other people are doing in high snow load areas? > Also. I have noticed that there is a flip side to the risks. We have found > that unless you have good quality shingles, on a preexisting roof, that > sometimes the adhesive sticking the shingles together is stronger than the > low quality shingles themselves - adding risk of trying to shoe horn flashing > in after the fact. Your experience? > > thanks, > > Troy Harvey > - > Principal Engineer > Heliocentric > 801-453-9434 > tahar...@heliocentric.org > > > > > > Sent from Finest Planet WebMail. > > > ___ List sponsored by Home Power > magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules > & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > Sent from Finest Planet WebMail. > > > > > Sent from Finest Planet WebMail. > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Options & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] AC Modules ready for primetime?
...Just to chime in, I installed the Exeltech/NB ACPV modules on a residence in January. It was super easy. They went in fast, with no GEC needed from the roof. Piercing connectors worked well clamping to the trunk cable. No conduit required. Irradiance sensor is standard, with temp sensed from the Heliosentry box. The modules seem to be performing well, although the system isn't connected to the internet, and I am not sure how the monitoring works when it is. (That is something I'd like to know more about before installing another system.) Blessings, Kelly Larson On Oct 31, 2012, at 3:37 PM, Exeltech wrote: > Jason, > > You're describing our "Home Run" cable and the connectors for the > AC Modules. > > Replacements are easy. The inverter base stays on the PV. The > cable is a part of that base. You don't need to disconnect anything. > > Just remove four screws from the inverter (the "lid" of the enclosure > is actually the inverter heat sink), remove it (there's a five pin mating > connector inside the inverter .. the female half on the inverter, the > male half in the base) .. remove the inverter .. pop the new one in, > and replace the four screws. > > That's it. No wiring to mess with. > > > Dan > > > --- On Wed, 10/31/12, Jason Szumlanski wrote: > > From: Jason Szumlanski > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] AC Modules ready for primetime? > To: "RE-wrenches" > Date: Wednesday, October 31, 2012, 5:27 PM > > One of the nice features I saw at SPI is the "trunk cable" which is a > standard cable to which you attach piercing taps that come attached on a drop > from each AC module's inverter. I like not having to worry about connector > spacing. I'm not sure how you handle replacements or removals, but I'm sure > that's been addressed. I haven't used these modules yet, but I can see the > benefits in the cable strategy. > > Jason Szumlanski > Fafco Solar > > On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 3:30 PM, Exeltech wrote: > Hello Kirk, > > Our PVAC Modules are certified to UL and other applicable Standards on: > > Helios PV, Milwaukee, Wisc ( http://www.heliossolarworks.com/ ) > PV made in Milwaukee + our AC Module inverters made in Fort Worth > yields a 100% "Made in America" product. > > > NB Solar (made by "Sun Earth Solar"), China > In the PV business for 44 years. > ( http://www.nbsolar.com/ ) > > > Top Sun (Korea) > Vertically integrated PV manufacturer of ingots, wafers, cells, and PV > modules. > ( http://www.topsun.kr/english/main/main.htm ) > > > Distributed by Solarbine, with offices/warehouse facilities in Pennsylvania, > Texas, and Southern California. > ( http://www.solarbine.net/ ) > > > More PV manufacturers are working their way through in UL certification at > this > time, but non-disclosure agreements won't allow discussion yet. > > > > > > Dan Lepinski, Senior Engineer > Exeltech Solar > > > > --- On Wed, 10/31/12, Kirk Herander wrote: > > From: Kirk Herander > > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] AC Modules ready for primetime? > To: "'RE-wrenches'" > Date: Wednesday, October 31, 2012, 1:53 PM > > > Dan, > > > What panel OEM’s are using your AC modules? > > > Kirk Herander > > VT Solar, LLC > > dba Vermont Solar Engineering > > NABCEPTM Certified Inaugural Certificant > > NYSERDA-eligible Installer > > VT RE Incentive Program Partner > > 802.863.1202 > > > From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org > [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Exeltech > Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 12:05 PM > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] AC Modules ready for primetime? > > > Hello David, > > Our inverters are a *true* AC Module, not just a micro-inverter that's been > attached to the PV frame or other structure. They replace the junction box > on PV, and must be installed by a PV manufacturer, distributor, or OEM > that are certified to the appropriate UL Standards for that process. Our > AC Modules are not designed for field/site installation to PV. > > The advantages to this: We're exempt from DC-side ground-fault and > arc-fault because all DC conductors are internal to our inverter, and are > all less than 80Vdc. > > Being mounted directly to the PV eliminates the j-box, diodes, high-voltage > DC conductors, and expensive DC connectors and their associated hassles. > This also reduces the product cost and decreases the system installation > time. You'
Re: [RE-wrenches] Module shorting to ground?
Hi Rebecca, If you suspect the wires in conduit, you can megger just the wires by disconnecting all the wires on both ends of the conduit, wirenutting them off on one end, and meggering them on the other end. Megger between two of the wires at a time, and repeat until all the wires have been tested against each other and each is tested against the metal conduit, (if any). There should be very high resistance between all of them and between them and the metal conduit. To megger an array: Remove the array connection to the inverter! Cap that end of the wires with wirenuts. Remove any surge protection devices! Be sure that you connect the positive of the megger to the negative of the array (this is important to get right) Connect the negative of the megger to the grounding conductors Make sure all the metal of the system is clear of people and animals. (Don't touch any metal) Energize megger. Use the 50V setting, (if the megger has that low a setting), it will show something if there is a problem that you are picking up with a multimeter or use the lowest setting. Don't use more than 500V. I am not sure the megger is the right tool to diagnose a module and prove it has an internal GF to a module manufacturer. Some module manufacturers say not to megger their modules. Hope that helps. Let us know! Blessings, Kelly On Oct 27, 2012, at 7:25 AM, Rebecca Lundberg wrote: > I have an array that has been up and running with no problems for 6 > months. The array includes 58 Sanyo HIT 220 watt N-Series modules, 13 > of which are on Enphase M210 and the rest in strings to (2) Power One > transformerless (ungrounded) inverters. This week one of the Power One > inverters shows a RISO error, indicating a connection to ground on one > of the current carrying conductors. > > I went out yesterday to look at the array, thinking these were the > three potential issues (in descending order of likelihood): > - animal damage to the wires (though there are no trees near the house at all) > - contractor damage to wires (no work has been done on roof or attic > since we were there) > - inverter problem > > I found one inverter input that shows continuity to ground at the DC > disconnect (which indicates the inverter is doing just what it is > designed to do!). I opened the Soladeck on the roof (which is where > the PV output circuit/PV wire is transitioned to wire in conduit run > through the house), disconnected the connection, and found the PV > output circuit itself shows continuity to ground. I inspected the > array carefully, and all wires are strapped securely off of the roof > and out of sight, everything looks just as I left it 6 months ago. > I've dealt with significant animal damage before and know what to look > for. > > My question: I can lift each of these 8 modules in the string up and > check the wires carefully, but outside of that being a hidden cause, > is it possible that one of the modules itself is shorting to ground? > If so, how do I check that and what else will I need to do to prove > that to the distributor for warranty replacement? So far I've used the > continuity tone on the volt-meter for testing the short to ground. I > have a megger but it is new, so, therefore, is my knowledge of how to > use it... > > Thanks in advance. > > Keep Shining! > Rebecca Lundberg > NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ® > Owner/CEO, Powerfully Green > rebecca.lundb...@powerfullygreen.com > 763-438-1976 > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Options & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] MC connectors/Tyco
There are new j- and combiner boxes out from Tyco that have panel mount connectors. Blessings, Kelly Kelly Larson Electrical Engineer NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ISPQ Master Trainer CA C-10 # 868189 solarke...@asis.com On Apr 29, 2011, at 12:12 PM, R Ray Walters wrote: Midnite Solar is now making Combiner boxes that are prewired with MC connects. Being UL listed, I think they would speed both the installation and inspection processes. http://www.midnitesolar.com/products.php?menuItem=products&productCat_ID=9&productCatName=PV%20Combiners They may also sell the connectors themselves; they've always been really helpful. They've sold us separate parts like that before. R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Apr 29, 2011, at 10:31 AM, William Miller wrote: Jim: I order mine from Multi-Contact directly. I know there are others that they make the cord mount connectors and I wonder if anyone else makes the panel mount version. I order in quantities so I have not ordered for some time. I am soon to be in need of re-ordering these connectors, so I am interested in learning if there are alternative manufacturer. Please keep my in the loop, if you don't mind. Thanks, William Miller At 08:57 AM 4/29/2011, you wrote: Wrenches Multi Contact makes MC panel mount M & F receptacles but several of the larger pv distributors don't offer anything but the cable mount variety on their www catalogs. Where can these be ordered? thanks as always Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy 486 W.N. Woody Road Azle Texas 76020 NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer No.031310-57 TECL 27398 nt...@1scom.net 817.917.0527 www.ntrei.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3599 - Release Date: 04/26/11 William Miller Miller Solar Voice :805-438-5600 email: will...@millersolar.com http://millersolar.com License No. C-10-773985 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] PV powered music festival
Hi Carl, You can't backfeed a generator. I think it blows the voltage regulator? And the output is often too dirty to connect to. Here is a place for controls. If one could control the loads well, you could accommodate solar fluctuation. But alas, until then, we can stick to our battery backup, where the genny will back off when the batteries are full-ish. Blessings, Kelly Kelly Larson Electrical Engineer NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ISPQ Master Trainer CA C-10 # 868189 solarke...@asis.com On Apr 30, 2011, at 4:35 PM, Carl Emerson wrote: Great discussion. Why not backfeed into the generator and reduce fuel costs? Carl Emerson Free Power Co. Land line +64 9 473 4286 Mobile +64 22 630 9689 Email emer...@freepower.co.nz Web www.freepower.co.nz -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Kelly Larson Sent: 1 May 2011 9:16 a.m. To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] PV powered music festival Wow! What an great discussion! Nice documentation, Dan. I have powered part-solar, part-generator, part grid-powered events for several years. It's problematic. Few have a clue how much power and energy they use. If they use to much it makes the electrician look real bad. I walk around on my rounds and check everything regularly. It's a big job. Some of what I learned that hasn't been mentioned (or much): ALWAYS have a genny on hand to cover anything Murphy throws in. (...of Murphy's law) A failure at a public event is hard to recover from. Size it to cover everything PLUS battery charging. A dead battery is worthless to you AND degrades the bank for future use. When the music's loud no one will notice, (or turn it on over night for recharge). Taking along a TED 5000 would be real helpful in figuring out what uses what. The TED is pretty versatile, and records the data, (but takes a little figuring, so use it before the event). A clamp on ampmeter is an essential tool. (Remember, most clamp on ampmeters are AC only). Watch the extension cords. They can easily be undersized and often in poor repair. In the past I've used big #10 SO cables to get power out to where it will be used to address this. An IR temp gun or thermal camera can help keep quick tabs on what is getting hot, which can be especially nice during headliners. Take the time to stand out front and educate about energy and renewables. Have fun with it! Have flyers that list resources for energy efficiency and energy conservation, as well as renewables. I'd love to have a meter with a big readout that says how much power is being used with a running total of energy. Project for the future... Blessings, Kelly Kelly Larson NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ISPQ Master Trainer CA C-10 # 868189 solarwre...@asis.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] PV powered music festival
Wow! What an great discussion! Nice documentation, Dan. I have powered part-solar, part-generator, part grid-powered events for several years. It's problematic. Few have a clue how much power and energy they use. If they use to much it makes the electrician look real bad. I walk around on my rounds and check everything regularly. It's a big job. Some of what I learned that hasn't been mentioned (or much): ALWAYS have a genny on hand to cover anything Murphy throws in. (...of Murphy's law) A failure at a public event is hard to recover from. Size it to cover everything PLUS battery charging. A dead battery is worthless to you AND degrades the bank for future use. When the music's loud no one will notice, (or turn it on over night for recharge). Taking along a TED 5000 would be real helpful in figuring out what uses what. The TED is pretty versatile, and records the data, (but takes a little figuring, so use it before the event). A clamp on ampmeter is an essential tool. (Remember, most clamp on ampmeters are AC only). Watch the extension cords. They can easily be undersized and often in poor repair. In the past I've used big #10 SO cables to get power out to where it will be used to address this. An IR temp gun or thermal camera can help keep quick tabs on what is getting hot, which can be especially nice during headliners. Take the time to stand out front and educate about energy and renewables. Have fun with it! Have flyers that list resources for energy efficiency and energy conservation, as well as renewables. I'd love to have a meter with a big readout that says how much power is being used with a running total of energy. Project for the future... Blessings, Kelly Kelly Larson NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ISPQ Master Trainer CA C-10 # 868189 solarwre...@asis.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Fwd: Two-Day Solar PV Seminar - March 7, 8
Fellow wrenches, Thought this announcement might be of interest to you. (If for no other reason, the participant descriptions are invoking...) Blessings, Kelly Kelly Larson Box 104 Piercy, CA 95587 707-223-3209 Electrical Engineer NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ISPQ Master Trainer CA C-10 # 868189 solarke...@asis.com Begin forwarded message: From: "Northern California Solar Energy Association" > Date: February 24, 2011 3:31:41 PM GMT-07:00 To: solarke...@asis.com Subject: Two-Day Solar PV Seminar - March 7, 8 Reply-To: "Northern California Solar Energy Association" > Click to view this email in a browser Dear NorCal Solar Member, You are invited to a 2 day solar PV seminar featuring: * John Wiles (the "undisputed number one PV authority in the US") * Sean White (Adjunct Professor at Diablo Valley College) * Marvin Hamon (Adjunct Professors at Diablo Valley College) Date: March 7th and 8th Location: Crowne Plaza - San Francisco Airport (1177 Airport Blvd, SF, CA 94010) This is an incredible opportunity to see three renowned experts in PV and learn about PV systems, the NEC (National Electric Code), and cover intermediate/advanced PV topics. Register Today! Seating is limited. For more information on the seminar, please visit/view: www.solareducationcenter.com PDF Event Details Flyer of Event Also, feel free to contact NorCal Solar with any questions. Yours in Solar, - NorCal Solar If you no longer wish to receive these emails, please reply to this message with "Unsubscribe" in the subject line or simply click on the following link: Unsubscribe Northern California Solar Energy Association P.O. Box 3008 Berkeley, CA 94703 USA Read the VerticalResponse marketing policy. Blessings, Kelly Kelly Larson Box 104 Piercy, CA 95587 707-223-3209 Electrical Engineer NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ISPQ Master Trainer CA C-10 # 868189 solarke...@asis.com "I'd put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I hope we don't have to wait until oil and coal run out before we tackle that." ~ Thomas Edison ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] AC coupled GT Sunny Island w Enphase; string optimizers
Wrenches, Here's an update on this configuration (20kW Enphase, AC coupled to Sunny Islands) you should know about: Enphase will not support and warranty the use of their micro inverters in an AC-coupled installation with battery-based inverters. Enphase approved this verbally with us in design, but balked when we asked them to back it up in writing. Their issue/point is that AC-coupling violates the UL1741 listing. Thus, we're revising the design to use Sunny Boy string inverters. Our customer would still like the module-level monitoring and optimization offered by the micro-inverters (there is some shading issue), so we're considering using string optimizers. We have not used string- optimization, yet. It looks like the leading options are Solar Magic and Tigo. Any preferences, cautions, or advice with choosing and using optimizers would be appreciated. Thanks, -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Principal Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems NABCEP Certified PV Installer WA Electrical Administrator 987 Wanamaker Rd. Coupeville, WA 98239 ke...@whidbeysunwind.com PH & FAX: 360.678.7131 On Jan 13, 2011, at 7:33 PM, Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun & Wind wrote: Wrenches, We are including 2 Sunny Island inverters into a previously battery- less grid tied design utilizing 20 kW of PV on Enphase micro inverters and 2 SMA Windy Boy 6000 inverters (10 kW XZERES 442 turbine). Our customer wishes to run his fuel generator as little as possible when the grid goes down. Nothing is in the power room yet, the house is under construction. Only the wind turbine is installed. With a pass-through limit of 56A, the two Sunny Islands cannot conduct the combined RE production to the grid. There is not enough critical load demand to justify two more SI's, nor is there space for them. Our plan is to connect the micro-inverters (84A, peak) directly to the main service (grid) in normal mode, switching to the critical load panel (SI AC output) when the grid goes down. The Windy Boys (56A) would remain connected to the critical load panel. I'm hoping that the frequency shifting control of the Windy Boys from the SI's will allow the PV micro inverters to connect and stay connected to the SI's while there is demand on the critical loads and the batteries are charging. When there is more PV output than load demand we expect that the SI frequency will rise to the point where the micros will go out of spec and disconnect, maybe in a nicely staggered pattern. Questions: 1. Has anyone experience with this much grid-direct RE capacity and/ or micro-inverters AC coupled to Sunny Islands? I'm a little scared by a previous post from Darryl wherein he found that the RE capacity from the GD inverters should be 1/2 that of the battery-based inverters in an AC coupled system. Please let me know if you are certain that this is not going to work! 2. Any experience with specifying a contactor/relay to switch the PV output? The contactor will be controlled by one of the SI relays. Switching from the main panel (grid) to the critical load panel will be during a grid outage, so doesn't need to be load-rated, but switching back after the grid comes back up could be load-break. Our current solution is to use two 80A contactors from Schneider (#LC1D80G7) with an intertie kit. 3. Any suggestions for an inverter bypass (service disconnect) for the two SI's? We're considering either a monster 2P2T 200A switch (100 A would do), or using a gen-transfer type panel for the critical loads. Comments and informed opinions quite welcome. Thanks, -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Principal Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems ke...@whidbeysunwind.com PH & FAX: 360.678.7131 NABCEP Certified PV Installer WA Electrical Administrator ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Incompatible Metals
Hi Nick, On the jacket from a roll in the shop: it's Cu, Type XHHW-2, "XLPE" (whatever that means). Also type RW90. -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360-678-7131 On Jan 14, 2011, at 11:43 PM, Nick Soleil wrote: Hi Kelly: Are you sure about the XHHW listing. Doesn't that designate aluminum wire? You mentioned CU before. I have seen some discolloration from copper wire against module frames, but not real corrosion. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax: 707-769-9037 From: "Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun & Wind" To: RE-wrenches Sent: Fri, January 14, 2011 3:06:09 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Incompatible Metals Scott, 300.3(2) allows grounding and bonding conductors to be outside of a raceway. See 250.134(B), exception 2. Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Principal Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems NABCEP Certified PV Installer WA Electrical Administrator 987 Wanamaker Rd. Coupeville, WA 98239 ke...@whidbeysunwind.com PH & FAX: 360.678.7131 On Jan 14, 2011, at 2:51 PM, Scott McCalmont wrote: 300.3(A) prohibits the use of XHHW outside of a recognized wiring method, which means you need a conduit or raceway. You can use USE-2 in an exposed outdoor location only because 690.31(B) allows it, but only for module interconnections. Scott On Jan 14, 2011, at 11:45 AM, Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun & Wind wrote: Peter, Yes the #10 XHHW (2) we use is green-jacketed, and 90˚ rated. We get it through our local electrical supply house. Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360-678-7131 On Jan 14, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Peter Parrish wrote: Great idea Kelly! I didn't know one could get green jacketed USE or XHHW. Do you have a source? Also, do you think that we might need wire rated "-2" for 90 deg C wet locations. I know that this is not a current carrying conductor, but roof tops are definitely 90 deg C wet environments. Your thoughts? - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun & Wind Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 10:14 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Incompatible Metals Peter, I have never understood the common practice of using bare copper ground wire on and against aluminum frames and modules. It always has been a dissimilar metals issue. Just look anywhere copper has set against aluminum for awhile. We use #10 green jacketed Cu USE or XHHW conductor and strip away the jacket at each lug, using No-Ox on that section of bare wire at the lug. The wire can be tucked in to the module frames and with the PV conductors. Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360-678-7131 On Jan 14, 2011, at 7:36 AM, Peter Parrish wrote: One of my students who is currently responsible for standing for inspection at their company encountered a inspector who made an interesting point about incompatible metals (i.e. copper and anodized aluminum). The PV system in question used outdoor rated lay-in lugs to bond the rails to bare copper wire (so far so good). The ground wire was then zip- tied to the rail to carry it to the point where it entered a junction box along with the rest of the PV conductors. The inspector was concerned with the fact that the bare copper was in contact with the aluminum rails and that this might cause galvanic corrosion and subsequent failure of the grounding. I have never encountered this issue before and I wonder if anyone else has and what was the outcome. As an aside: I do know that 10 AWG and 12 AWG solid bare copper wire can be purchased "pre-tinned" (maybe not tin per se, but coated). We did so by mistake. We used it up, but not before one inspector questioned its use for the purpose of grounding our system. We showed him the UL label on the spool and scraped off the coating to expose the copper core and that satisfied him. To this day I don't know if the use of this wire for grounding was among its intended purposes. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.
Re: [RE-wrenches] Incompatible Metals
Scott, 300.3(2) allows grounding and bonding conductors to be outside of a raceway. See 250.134(B), exception 2. Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Principal Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems NABCEP Certified PV Installer WA Electrical Administrator 987 Wanamaker Rd. Coupeville, WA 98239 ke...@whidbeysunwind.com PH & FAX: 360.678.7131 On Jan 14, 2011, at 2:51 PM, Scott McCalmont wrote: 300.3(A) prohibits the use of XHHW outside of a recognized wiring method, which means you need a conduit or raceway. You can use USE-2 in an exposed outdoor location only because 690.31(B) allows it, but only for module interconnections. Scott On Jan 14, 2011, at 11:45 AM, Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun & Wind wrote: Peter, Yes the #10 XHHW (2) we use is green-jacketed, and 90˚ rated. We get it through our local electrical supply house. Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360-678-7131 On Jan 14, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Peter Parrish wrote: Great idea Kelly! I didn't know one could get green jacketed USE or XHHW. Do you have a source? Also, do you think that we might need wire rated "-2" for 90 deg C wet locations. I know that this is not a current carrying conductor, but roof tops are definitely 90 deg C wet environments. Your thoughts? - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun & Wind Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 10:14 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Incompatible Metals Peter, I have never understood the common practice of using bare copper ground wire on and against aluminum frames and modules. It always has been a dissimilar metals issue. Just look anywhere copper has set against aluminum for awhile. We use #10 green jacketed Cu USE or XHHW conductor and strip away the jacket at each lug, using No-Ox on that section of bare wire at the lug. The wire can be tucked in to the module frames and with the PV conductors. Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360-678-7131 On Jan 14, 2011, at 7:36 AM, Peter Parrish wrote: One of my students who is currently responsible for standing for inspection at their company encountered a inspector who made an interesting point about incompatible metals (i.e. copper and anodized aluminum). The PV system in question used outdoor rated lay-in lugs to bond the rails to bare copper wire (so far so good). The ground wire was then zip- tied to the rail to carry it to the point where it entered a junction box along with the rest of the PV conductors. The inspector was concerned with the fact that the bare copper was in contact with the aluminum rails and that this might cause galvanic corrosion and subsequent failure of the grounding. I have never encountered this issue before and I wonder if anyone else has and what was the outcome. As an aside: I do know that 10 AWG and 12 AWG solid bare copper wire can be purchased "pre-tinned" (maybe not tin per se, but coated). We did so by mistake. We used it up, but not before one inspector questioned its use for the purpose of grounding our system. We showed him the UL label on the spool and scraped off the coating to expose the copper core and that satisfied him. To this day I don't know if the use of this wire for grounding was among its intended purposes. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re- wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address:
Re: [RE-wrenches] Incompatible Metals
Peter, Yes the #10 XHHW (2) we use is green-jacketed, and 90˚ rated. We get it through our local electrical supply house. Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360-678-7131 On Jan 14, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Peter Parrish wrote: Great idea Kelly! I didn't know one could get green jacketed USE or XHHW. Do you have a source? Also, do you think that we might need wire rated "-2" for 90 deg C wet locations. I know that this is not a current carrying conductor, but roof tops are definitely 90 deg C wet environments. Your thoughts? - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun & Wind Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 10:14 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Incompatible Metals Peter, I have never understood the common practice of using bare copper ground wire on and against aluminum frames and modules. It always has been a dissimilar metals issue. Just look anywhere copper has set against aluminum for awhile. We use #10 green jacketed Cu USE or XHHW conductor and strip away the jacket at each lug, using No-Ox on that section of bare wire at the lug. The wire can be tucked in to the module frames and with the PV conductors. Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360-678-7131 On Jan 14, 2011, at 7:36 AM, Peter Parrish wrote: One of my students who is currently responsible for standing for inspection at their company encountered a inspector who made an interesting point about incompatible metals (i.e. copper and anodized aluminum). The PV system in question used outdoor rated lay-in lugs to bond the rails to bare copper wire (so far so good). The ground wire was then zip- tied to the rail to carry it to the point where it entered a junction box along with the rest of the PV conductors. The inspector was concerned with the fact that the bare copper was in contact with the aluminum rails and that this might cause galvanic corrosion and subsequent failure of the grounding. I have never encountered this issue before and I wonder if anyone else has and what was the outcome. As an aside: I do know that 10 AWG and 12 AWG solid bare copper wire can be purchased "pre-tinned" (maybe not tin per se, but coated). We did so by mistake. We used it up, but not before one inspector questioned its use for the purpose of grounding our system. We showed him the UL label on the spool and scraped off the coating to expose the copper core and that satisfied him. To this day I don't know if the use of this wire for grounding was among its intended purposes. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] AC coupled, grid-tied Sunny Island - contactor & bypass
August, If the SI does, indeed, shut out the pass-through AC channel when the critical load panel is connected directly to the grid this is certainly a simpler solution. That would explain why the GD inverters would drop out during a switch. Is the switch-over is fast enough that time-keeping gizmos will not have to be reset? Ours is an on-grid customer, with on-grid expectations. We'll confirm that this connection is approved by SMA. Thanks, again. -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360-678-7131 On Jan 14, 2011, at 10:07 AM, August Goers wrote: Hi Kelly - Yes, AC1 from the Sunny Island is always connected to the critical loads panel. During on-grid operation the critical loads panel is fed solely through the main panel and transfer switch, not through the Sunny Island. I see your question about paralleling the critical loads panel through both the external transfer switch and the Sunny Island. It's been a while since I've contacted SMA about this but my understanding is that the Sunny Island is "smart" and since it sees that there is already power on the critical loads panel it will not backfeed the critical panel until it sees that the main power goes down. When the grid power goes down the automatic transfer switch flips very quickly to backup mode and the Sunny Island immediately kicks in. It happens so fast that the first few times I was testing it I was caught off guard and thought that something was wrong. In fact it was flipping to backup mode so fast that I didn't even see the lights flicker. Even though this switch is really quick the grid tied inverters still trip off in my experience. Does this address your thoughts? Best, August -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun & Wind Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 9:35 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] AC coupled, grid-tied Sunny Island - contactor & bypass Hi August, To make sure I'm clear: Does the Sunny Island output (AC1) stay connected to the critical load panel while at the same time fed directly from the main panel? If so, is there no issue with the critical loads being fed through multiple paths? And, why, then, would the GD inverters switch off during the switch if they continue to have an AC signal from the SI's. If not, you must be switching the critical load panel feed between the SI AC1 and main, via the transfer switch. And, the drawback would be that the critical loads would not have an uninterruptible power supply during a grid outage. Thanks for your description. This certainly sounds simpler than my plan. -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360-678-7131 On Jan 14, 2011, at 7:23 AM, August Goers wrote: Hi Kelly - Sounds like a fun project. We've got a few 10+ kW grid tied Sunny Island projects and although they are not with Enphase inverters I thought I'd pass on how we've been wiring them up with good results. We tie the solar inverters into the critical loads panel and then put a transfer switch (either auto or manual depending on the client's choice) between the main and critical loads panel. The Sunny Island(s) output circuit (AC1) is also tied into the critical loads panel and the AC2 connection is tied into the main. During normal on-grid operation the PV is tied directly to the main through the critical loads panel and transfer switch so there are no losses through the Sunny Island. The Sunny Island at that point is simply keeping the batteries charged though the AC2 connection and monitoring the grid. When the grid goes down the transfer switch disconnects the critical loads panel from the main and the Sunny Island kicks in. The PV inverters shut off immediately during the switch but then kick into waiting mode once receiving the signal from the Sunny Island. The PV stays on during the grid outage until the batteries are fully charged then the voltage increases until the PV turns off, goes back into waiting mode and the whole process repeats - this is assuming that we're getting more PV than load. I've tested both scenarios and if the load is larger than the PV then the inverters will stay on indefinitely. What was your reasoning for tying the PV into the main and using a relay to switch to the critical loads panel during a power outage? Best, August August Goers Luminalt Energy Corporation 1320 Potrero Avenue San Francisco, CA 94110 m: 415.559.1525 o: 415.641.4000 aug...@luminalt.com -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun & Wind Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 7
Re: [RE-wrenches] Incompatible Metals
Peter, I have never understood the common practice of using bare copper ground wire on and against aluminum frames and modules. It always has been a dissimilar metals issue. Just look anywhere copper has set against aluminum for awhile. We use #10 green jacketed Cu USE or XHHW conductor and strip away the jacket at each lug, using No-Ox on that section of bare wire at the lug. The wire can be tucked in to the module frames and with the PV conductors. Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360-678-7131 On Jan 14, 2011, at 7:36 AM, Peter Parrish wrote: One of my students who is currently responsible for standing for inspection at their company encountered a inspector who made an interesting point about incompatible metals (i.e. copper and anodized aluminum). The PV system in question used outdoor rated lay-in lugs to bond the rails to bare copper wire (so far so good). The ground wire was then zip- tied to the rail to carry it to the point where it entered a junction box along with the rest of the PV conductors. The inspector was concerned with the fact that the bare copper was in contact with the aluminum rails and that this might cause galvanic corrosion and subsequent failure of the grounding. I have never encountered this issue before and I wonder if anyone else has and what was the outcome. As an aside: I do know that 10 AWG and 12 AWG solid bare copper wire can be purchased "pre-tinned" (maybe not tin per se, but coated). We did so by mistake. We used it up, but not before one inspector questioned its use for the purpose of grounding our system. We showed him the UL label on the spool and scraped off the coating to expose the copper core and that satisfied him. To this day I don't know if the use of this wire for grounding was among its intended purposes. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] AC coupled, grid-tied Sunny Island - contactor & bypass
Hi August, To make sure I'm clear: Does the Sunny Island output (AC1) stay connected to the critical load panel while at the same time fed directly from the main panel? If so, is there no issue with the critical loads being fed through multiple paths? And, why, then, would the GD inverters switch off during the switch if they continue to have an AC signal from the SI's. If not, you must be switching the critical load panel feed between the SI AC1 and main, via the transfer switch. And, the drawback would be that the critical loads would not have an uninterruptible power supply during a grid outage. Thanks for your description. This certainly sounds simpler than my plan. -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360-678-7131 On Jan 14, 2011, at 7:23 AM, August Goers wrote: Hi Kelly - Sounds like a fun project. We've got a few 10+ kW grid tied Sunny Island projects and although they are not with Enphase inverters I thought I'd pass on how we've been wiring them up with good results. We tie the solar inverters into the critical loads panel and then put a transfer switch (either auto or manual depending on the client's choice) between the main and critical loads panel. The Sunny Island(s) output circuit (AC1) is also tied into the critical loads panel and the AC2 connection is tied into the main. During normal on-grid operation the PV is tied directly to the main through the critical loads panel and transfer switch so there are no losses through the Sunny Island. The Sunny Island at that point is simply keeping the batteries charged though the AC2 connection and monitoring the grid. When the grid goes down the transfer switch disconnects the critical loads panel from the main and the Sunny Island kicks in. The PV inverters shut off immediately during the switch but then kick into waiting mode once receiving the signal from the Sunny Island. The PV stays on during the grid outage until the batteries are fully charged then the voltage increases until the PV turns off, goes back into waiting mode and the whole process repeats - this is assuming that we're getting more PV than load. I've tested both scenarios and if the load is larger than the PV then the inverters will stay on indefinitely. What was your reasoning for tying the PV into the main and using a relay to switch to the critical loads panel during a power outage? Best, August August Goers Luminalt Energy Corporation 1320 Potrero Avenue San Francisco, CA 94110 m: 415.559.1525 o: 415.641.4000 aug...@luminalt.com -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun & Wind Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 7:33 PM To: RE Wrenches listserve Subject: [RE-wrenches] AC coupled, grid-tied Sunny Island - contactor & bypass Wrenches, We are including 2 Sunny Island inverters into a previously battery- less grid tied design utilizing 20 kW of PV on Enphase micro inverters and 2 SMA Windy Boy 6000 inverters (10 kW XZERES 442 turbine). Our customer wishes to run his fuel generator as little as possible when the grid goes down. Nothing is in the power room yet, the house is under construction. Only the wind turbine is installed. With a pass-through limit of 56A, the two Sunny Islands cannot conduct the combined RE production to the grid. There is not enough critical load demand to justify two more SI's, nor is there space for them. Our plan is to connect the micro-inverters (84A, peak) directly to the main service (grid) in normal mode, switching to the critical load panel (SI AC output) when the grid goes down. The Windy Boys (56A) would remain connected to the critical load panel. I'm hoping that the frequency shifting control of the Windy Boys from the SI's will allow the PV micro inverters to connect and stay connected to the SI's while there is demand on the critical loads and the batteries are charging. When there is more PV output than load demand we expect that the SI frequency will rise to the point where the micros will go out of spec and disconnect, maybe in a nicely staggered pattern. Questions: 1. Has anyone experience with this much grid-direct RE capacity and/or micro-inverters AC coupled to Sunny Islands? I'm a little scared by a previous post from Darryl wherein he found that the RE capacity from the GD inverters should be 1/2 that of the battery-based inverters in an AC coupled system. Please let me know if you are certain that this is not going to work! 2. Any experience with specifying a contactor/relay to switch the PV output? The contactor will be controlled by one of the SI relays. Switching from the main panel (grid) to the critical load panel will be during a grid outage, so doesn't need to be load-rated, but switch
[RE-wrenches] AC coupled, grid-tied Sunny Island - contactor & bypass
Wrenches, We are including 2 Sunny Island inverters into a previously battery- less grid tied design utilizing 20 kW of PV on Enphase micro inverters and 2 SMA Windy Boy 6000 inverters (10 kW XZERES 442 turbine). Our customer wishes to run his fuel generator as little as possible when the grid goes down. Nothing is in the power room yet, the house is under construction. Only the wind turbine is installed. With a pass-through limit of 56A, the two Sunny Islands cannot conduct the combined RE production to the grid. There is not enough critical load demand to justify two more SI's, nor is there space for them. Our plan is to connect the micro-inverters (84A, peak) directly to the main service (grid) in normal mode, switching to the critical load panel (SI AC output) when the grid goes down. The Windy Boys (56A) would remain connected to the critical load panel. I'm hoping that the frequency shifting control of the Windy Boys from the SI's will allow the PV micro inverters to connect and stay connected to the SI's while there is demand on the critical loads and the batteries are charging. When there is more PV output than load demand we expect that the SI frequency will rise to the point where the micros will go out of spec and disconnect, maybe in a nicely staggered pattern. Questions: 1. Has anyone experience with this much grid-direct RE capacity and/or micro-inverters AC coupled to Sunny Islands? I'm a little scared by a previous post from Darryl wherein he found that the RE capacity from the GD inverters should be 1/2 that of the battery-based inverters in an AC coupled system. Please let me know if you are certain that this is not going to work! 2. Any experience with specifying a contactor/relay to switch the PV output? The contactor will be controlled by one of the SI relays. Switching from the main panel (grid) to the critical load panel will be during a grid outage, so doesn't need to be load-rated, but switching back after the grid comes back up could be load-break. Our current solution is to use two 80A contactors from Schneider (#LC1D80G7) with an intertie kit. 3. Any suggestions for an inverter bypass (service disconnect) for the two SI's? We're considering either a monster 2P2T 200A switch (100 A would do), or using a gen-transfer type panel for the critical loads. Comments and informed opinions quite welcome. Thanks, -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Principal Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems ke...@whidbeysunwind.com PH & FAX: 360.678.7131 NABCEP Certified PV Installer WA Electrical Administrator ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Standing Seam with direct S-5 attachment & Grounding
Done this too. Ended up not trusting the grounding on it and running lay in lugs. It is hard to ground the pans, as they are thin metal. I used a bolt/nut with a lay in lug with some sucess, (under the cap). #6 bare used here too. Blessings, Kelly Kelly Larson Box 104 Piercy, CA 95587 707-223-3209 Electrical Engineer NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ISPQ Master Trainer CA C-10 # 868189 solarke...@asis.com "I'd put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I hope we don't have to wait until oil and coal run out before we tackle that." ~ Thomas Edison On Jan 3, 2011, at 2:44 PM, Darryl Thayer wrote: When a local wrench did such an install, she grounded every module using Weeb lugs, with # 6 as both the equipment ground and the auxillary ground, She carried the equipment ground down to the inverter and the DC grounding, the auxillary ground to a ground rod. She said working with the direct attachment took longer than a typical rail mount. - Original Message From: Carl Adams To: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Mon, January 3, 2011 2:28:59 PM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Standing Seam with direct S-5 attachment & Grounding Wrenches, In reviewing the archive I've seen multiple threads on S5 to module attachment. I did not find any discussions on module grounding on this type of installation or any requirements for grounding the metal roof to which the modules are attached. It has been suggested to me that each roof pan which has a module attached should be grounded (perhaps under the ridge cap). Can anyone offer suggested best practice or requirements regarding this? With Regards Carl Adams SunRock Solar ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP credits and code webinars
I think these may be: http://www.sunwize.com/webinars/ Blessings, Kelly Kelly Larson Box 104 Piercy, CA 95587 707-223-3209 Electrical Engineer NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ISPQ Master Trainer CA C-10 # 868189 solarke...@asis.com "I'd put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I hope we don't have to wait until oil and coal run out before we tackle that." ~ Thomas Edison On Jan 4, 2011, at 11:54 AM, gary easton wrote: Hello Wrenches, Anyone aware of webinars coming up approved for NABCEP's code related continuing education credits? ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Freezing (was Trace...)
"Warning: those old DIY setups quickly become a can of worms, the further you dig into them. Don't assume anything was done right." ...Including checking the polarity of every wire! Who knows what the color meant to the last guy. And don't just mess with a few things and leave it. That customer is sure to have more problems and you were the last to touch it. (God forbid if they have an electrical fire.) Tell them it will take time to fix the mess. Make yourself a wiring diagram following every wire. This will take some customer investment, but result in a working system and happy customer. Blessings, Kelly Kelly Larson Box 104 Piercy, CA 95587 707-223-3209 Electrical Engineer NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ISPQ Master Trainer CA C-10 # 868189 solarke...@asis.com "I'd put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I hope we don't have to wait until oil and coal run out before we tackle that." ~ Thomas Edison On Dec 29, 2010, at 10:59 AM, R Ray Walters wrote: Jay; I've saved a few sets from freezing, different manufacturers' cases are stronger than others. (ie, A Trojan T105 can take more stress than something from Sam's Club.) FIrst I make sure they're less than 5 years old. Then, I warm them backup (portable propane heater, very well vented area, no current flow in or out) 3rd, See if any are leaking 4th, Charge them with the caps off, monitoring voltage, current, temperature, and bubbling action. Jesse; Your eyes and health are not worth risking to save those old things; 12 years is a fairly respectable lifespan in a poorly setup system. I think to continue to work with those batteries is inviting danger (everyone's recent explosion stories?) All those problems were caused by shorting plates, and other malfunctions, usually only seen in old batteries. Batteries only freeze when completely abused. The inverter probably was shutting off all the time from low voltage, and they had DC loads dragging it down even lower. The recent string on battery temperature management should be applied in this case too. I've seen poorly designed venting, freeze batteries right next to it, while the batteries on the inside were warm. I agree with Allan's assessment: this set is toast, and considering this is the worst time of year to not have a good battery set, I'd take care of that lady, and get her into a fresh set, ASAP. This is also a chance to do some needed rewiring of the system. Warning: those old DIY setups quickly become a can of worms, the further you dig into them. Don't assume anything was done right. R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Dec 29, 2010, at 9:16 AM, jay peltz wrote: I'd like to go back to the freezing battery part as I don't live in real freezing territory. How could they actually freeze and not destroy the housing, internal plate structure and in the end work at all? thanks, jay From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org ] On Behalf Of Allan Sindelar Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2010 10:41 AM To: dahlso...@gmail.com; RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Trace inverters undercharging batteries. Jesse, Don't waste your time on those batteries; they are all toast. Don't replace them with the same; four strings is poor design. Read the article about off-grid batteries in the current Home Power, and then sell the customer a set of 12 (or 24; either one string or two is OK) 2V industrial cells, such as HUPs from Northwest Energy Storage or K-series Surrettes. Size unknown. The existing full bank was 1400 A/hr if the cell cases had black covers, 1600 A/hr if the tops are blue, to give you an idea. BP modules from 1998 would have most likely been 12V 75W or 85W, meaning 900-1000 watts; too small an array for that size battery bank if the home is used full-time; OK for a seasonal or weekend cabin. Only with new batteries can you even tell what the inverters are doing. My hunch is that the inverters aren't at fault. However, given the poor quality of the original installation, they likely are set to default setpoints, which can charge at a very high rate (about 220A at 28.8V for two if the gennie is big enough) but won't get batteries full (and can't equalize them), as the default setpoints are too low. And I'll bet dollars to doughnuts the default setpoints are in place, as the inverters have been shut down sometime in the last 12 years, losing any original programming settings. You might see about getting an experienced off-gridder in your frozen region to work with you. Maybe Darryl could consult now, then make one trip out to set up the system once the new batteries are in. This was the classic late-90s system with a later charge
Re: [RE-wrenches] 2011 NEC and impact in the field
Here is the link for the report from Solar ABCs. Don't know if you can get to the webinar anymore, though. http://solarabcs.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=97%3A2011-national-electrical-code-nec-and-handbook-available&catid=1%3Alatest-news&Itemid=1 Blessings, Kelly Kelly Larson Box 104 Piercy, CA 95587 707-223-3209 Electrical Engineer NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ISPQ Master Trainer CA C-10 # 868189 solarke...@asis.com On Jan 13, 2011, at 9:27 AM, Dan Fink wrote: August; There was a webinar from Solar ABCs in autumn 2010 that covered many of these new 2011 NEC issues in detail, in a very practical way for the professional PV installer. I believe you can download the whole thing from them right now after the fact. I'm quite involved in teaching the PV / firefighter safety curriculum now, and signage is a big issue. In short-- engraved plastic signs are fine indoors or out, but don't penetrate an outdoor-rated box screwing them on! Stick-on vinyl signs need to meet UL 969. The webinar has some great photos of faded vinyl signs that have become unreadable. DAN FINK Executive Director, Buckville Energy Consulting LLC NABCEP / IREC / ISPQ accredited Continuing Education Providers August Goers wrote: Hi All - My shiny new copy of the 2011 NEC handbook just came in the mail and I've started reading through it trying to decipher what changes we should be expecting in the future. Although California is now just adopting the 2008 NEC which I'm quite familiar with, many jurisdictions will honor the newer version of the code if we provide a good argument for them. That said, does anyone who's checked out the new code have any interesting comments or advice on changes that might affect us out in the field? Section 690.31(E) is interesting in that it has quite a few detailed requirements for running DC circuits inside the building. Now it looks like MC cable is acceptable but that there are many more strict requirements about how the conduit or cable must be run. Labeling the DC conduit and J-boxes is also going to be a change we'll have to get used to. Hopefully there will be new reasonably priced label sources available. I'm sure I'm not alone in saying that it's always been hard to find cost effective labels which can hold up through the elements. The grounding section also looks substantially updated. As always, fun new things coming our way. Best, August August Goers Luminalt Energy Corporation 1320 Potrero Avenue San Francisco, CA 94110 m: 415.559.1525 o: 415.641.4000 aug...@luminalt.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 2011 NEC and impact in the field
Hi Mark, I don't know if they are still available, but the 2011 code book I bought had a free PDF download card in it. Blessings, Kelly Kelly Larson Box 104 Piercy, CA 95587 707-223-3209 Electrical Engineer NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ISPQ Master Trainer CA C-10 # 868189 solarke...@asis.com "I'd put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I hope we don't have to wait until oil and coal run out before we tackle that." ~ Thomas Edison On Jan 13, 2011, at 9:11 AM, Mark Frye wrote: Does anyone here have the 2011 Code available on CD in a searchable format? Know where to get it? Mark Frye Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 303 Redbud Way Nevada City, CA 95959 (530) 401-8024 www.berkeleysolar.com -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of August Goers Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 8:35 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] 2011 NEC and impact in the field Hi All - My shiny new copy of the 2011 NEC handbook just came in the mail and I've started reading through it trying to decipher what changes we should be expecting in the future. Although California is now just adopting the 2008 NEC which I'm quite familiar with, many jurisdictions will honor the newer version of the code if we provide a good argument for them. That said, does anyone who's checked out the new code have any interesting comments or advice on changes that might affect us out in the field? Section 690.31(E) is interesting in that it has quite a few detailed requirements for running DC circuits inside the building. Now it looks like MC cable is acceptable but that there are many more strict requirements about how the conduit or cable must be run. Labeling the DC conduit and J-boxes is also going to be a change we'll have to get used to. Hopefully there will be new reasonably priced label sources available. I'm sure I'm not alone in saying that it's always been hard to find cost effective labels which can hold up through the elements. The grounding section also looks substantially updated. As always, fun new things coming our way. Best, August August Goers Luminalt Energy Corporation 1320 Potrero Avenue San Francisco, CA 94110 m: 415.559.1525 o: 415.641.4000 aug...@luminalt.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] VAWT recommendation
Matt, et al, I will definitely share the results of this experience. FYI, I'm receiving some suggestions of VAWT's that have some promise, off-list. It will sure make this biz a lot easier when we have a selection of turbines that are certified by the Small Wind Certification Council. -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360-678-7131 On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:37 AM, Matt Lafferty wrote: Hi Kelly, I'm jealous. This sounds like a sweet opportunity. As long as your contract is clear on the things you are going to cover. Including being reimbursed for servicing anything that wasn't supplied by you. I'm with Darryl T on this Get paid for labor and common BOS stuff only. Stay out of the responsibility circle for the final design and major product selection. I know you will offer sound advice to the overall design (foundation, eqipment locations, etc.), even if you can't control the choice to go VAWT. I also know you will build it with the best chance for success, which is all they can ask for, in my opinion. I hope you are able to share the experiences with this group, good and bad, during and after the initial installation. Best of Luck! Matt Lafferty -Original Message- From: Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun & Wind Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 8:10 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] VAWT recommendation Greg, I've already done as you've suggested. We are on record for opposing the choice. The Navy (well, the civilian Navy employee who wrote the RFP and controls the contract) is firm on doing VAWT's. The GC is being generous with offering to buy the turbines and carry the VAWT warranty. Looks like I'll take them up on it. Thanks for the feedback -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360-678-7131 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] VAWT recommendation
Greg, I've already done as you've suggested. We are on record for opposing the choice. The Navy (well, the civilian Navy employee who wrote the RFP and controls the contract) is firm on doing VAWT's. The GC is being generous with offering to buy the turbines and carry the VAWT warranty. Looks like I'll take them up on it. Thanks for the feedback -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360-678-7131 On Oct 21, 2010, at 7:13 AM, g...@remotepowerinc.com wrote: Kelly, I've never seen one or heard of one that produces power or lasts. If you install these your name is on them. If they don't work it reflects on you and your business. I'd write the prime contractor a short note letting them know that you cannot find a VAWT that you can recommend with a clear conscious and because you don't want he and his company to wind up with a black eye, your not going to recommend a VAWT to him for purchase. If he's smart he'll tell the Navy he can't get a knowledgeable person with a conscious to sell him one and they'll do the right thing and either install a HAWT of good lineage or more solar. Best, Greg Egan Remote Power Inc. Message: 1 Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 15:16:46 -0600 From: Dan Fink To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] VAWT recommendation Message-ID: <4cbf5c3...@hughes.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Kelly; I would insist on a years worth of actual wind speed versus energy output data performed by an unaffiliated third party, before even touching this project with a 10-foot gin pole. DAN FINK Buckville Energy Consulting LLC Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun & Wind wrote: Wind wrenches, We have a subcontract to install 30kW of VAWT, along with 30kW of PV for the Navy. The Navy specified Helix Wind turbines, and is adamant on sticking with VAWTs, although they may accept an alternative. The GC we are working under is sufficiently scared of Helix to look for a viable alternative. Are there any?! The GC has done some research and wants to use the UGE-4K from Urban Green Energy http://www.urbangreenenergy.com It's an H-style lift machine that appears to have several European certifications on safety, power performance, noise, and vibration. Anyone know anything about these turbines or company? UGE's address is NY. Roy? Thanks, -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360-678-7131 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 360-678-7131 end_of_the_skype_highlighting -- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 16:17:36 -0600 From: benn kilburn To: Wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Mounting Enphase when using S-5-PV Clamps Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Not a lot of you guys in the field today 'eh? I was just checking a spec on my laptop and noticed i had a wireless signal and a mailbox full of great feedback, thanks again everyone!!! I'll go over all the details from everyone a little more when i'm done on site for the day. For a few of you i just wanted to show you this link to the S-5-PV clamp, which is different from just the S-5! clamp > Click here to learn more. < The S-5-PV does not need rails, the mod frames sit on the 'mounting disc' which can accommodate one or two modules. BUT, with the Enphase system, this leave no where to mount the inverters. Bill made a good point; save this mounting method for string inverter systems. We are now planning this project using just the S-5 clamp/L-foot/rail system. No problems. Back at 'er! benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 12:34:56 -0600 From: al...@positiveenergysolar.com To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Mounting Enphase when using S-5-PV Clamps We have used these for years. They work better than wire ties, but the rubber liner deteriorates over time, so install them as if there is no rubber protection on the loom clamp. Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com On 10/20/2010 11:53 AM, jay peltz wrote: If this helps, I just installed a system and used 3 different size loop clamps ( del city) which worked really well. I used 3/8" for single wires, 3/4 for 2 wires and 1" for 3 and also for the connector, worked really well, made it all very clean.
Re: [RE-wrenches] VAWT recommendation
Yeah, me either.. (sigh)... Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems NABCEP Certified PV Installer ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360.678.7131 On Oct 20, 2010, at 4:25 PM, Dan Fink wrote: Kelly; I don't currently know of any product with which the words "VAWT" and "last a while" can be used in the same sentence -- in terms of company longevity, number of units flying in the field, *or* turbine reliability record. DAN FINK Buckville Energy Consulting LLC Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun & Wind wrote: Hi Dan, Project done been touched - we're committed to putting up something with an upright axis in the wind Do you have any info about Urban Green Energy? Fellow we've been talking with in NY is Ryan Gilchrist. I've always thought it would be interesting if a client absolutely insisted on VAWT's, no matter what I said, and we wouldn't be held accountable for not dissuading them. The GC on this project has offered to buy the turbines and carry the manufacturer's warranty with the Navy, with us just responsible for the installation. I don't know if it can get better than that. Monitoring and everything. I just need to decide whether to give up the material sale. If we managed to find a VAWT that could endure, and have a reasonable output (it helps to get an additional 12¢/kWh for production over net metering in WA), we have several customers who would be interested, even when fully informed about the low ROI compared to PV. These folks just want to see SOME benefit to our long, windy winters and don't have the moxy or money to put a VAWT up high. The turbine - and company - just gotta last awhile. Thanks, -Kelly ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] VAWT recommendation
Hi Dan, Project done been touched - we're committed to putting up something with an upright axis in the wind Do you have any info about Urban Green Energy? Fellow we've been talking with in NY is Ryan Gilchrist. I've always thought it would be interesting if a client absolutely insisted on VAWT's, no matter what I said, and we wouldn't be held accountable for not dissuading them. The GC on this project has offered to buy the turbines and carry the manufacturer's warranty with the Navy, with us just responsible for the installation. I don't know if it can get better than that. Monitoring and everything. I just need to decide whether to give up the material sale. If we managed to find a VAWT that could endure, and have a reasonable output (it helps to get an additional 12¢/kWh for production over net metering in WA), we have several customers who would be interested, even when fully informed about the low ROI compared to PV. These folks just want to see SOME benefit to our long, windy winters and don't have the moxy or money to put a VAWT up high. The turbine - and company - just gotta last awhile. Thanks, -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems NABCEP Certified PV Installer ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360.678.7131 On Oct 20, 2010, at 2:16 PM, Dan Fink wrote: Kelly; I would insist on a years worth of actual wind speed versus energy output data performed by an unaffiliated third party, before even touching this project with a 10-foot gin pole. DAN FINK Buckville Energy Consulting LLC Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun & Wind wrote: Wind wrenches, We have a subcontract to install 30kW of VAWT, along with 30kW of PV for the Navy. The Navy specified Helix Wind turbines, and is adamant on sticking with VAWTs, although they may accept an alternative. The GC we are working under is sufficiently scared of Helix to look for a viable alternative. Are there any?! The GC has done some research and wants to use the UGE-4K from Urban Green Energy http://www.urbangreenenergy.com It's an H-style lift machine that appears to have several European certifications on safety, power performance, noise, and vibration. Anyone know anything about these turbines or company? UGE's address is NY. Roy? Thanks, -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360-678-7131 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] VAWT recommendation
Wind wrenches, We have a subcontract to install 30kW of VAWT, along with 30kW of PV for the Navy. The Navy specified Helix Wind turbines, and is adamant on sticking with VAWTs, although they may accept an alternative. The GC we are working under is sufficiently scared of Helix to look for a viable alternative. Are there any?! The GC has done some research and wants to use the UGE-4K from Urban Green Energy http://www.urbangreenenergy.com It's an H-style lift machine that appears to have several European certifications on safety, power performance, noise, and vibration. Anyone know anything about these turbines or company? UGE's address is NY. Roy? Thanks, -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360-678-7131 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Wind tower harness recommendations
High, wind techs, We need to buy new tower climbing/work harnesses. What make, model, and features do you like and recommend? I just sent a message to the Home Wind Tech list on this subject. But, as I haven't seen a message there since May, I thought I might generate a little more buzz, here. I'd be happy to continue or move the conversation to that list. -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems NABCEP Certified PV Installer ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360.678.7131 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Delta LAs
All, Our AHJ's started making us take the Deltas out a couple of years ago, as they are not listed equipment. We kept ordering them for awhile, thinking they were necessary, cheap insurance, intending to return after the inspection and put 'em in. We now have a large, dusty stack of uninstalled LA's on a shelf in the shop. -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun & Wind ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360-678-7131 NABCEP Certified PV Installer On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 8:39 AM, August Goers wrote: > All - > > I guess my thought is a little off topic, but are lightning arrestors even > worth using at all? My logic has always been that if lightning does indeed > strike that it's likely going to blow the arrestor and and inverter. We > don't have much of a lightning issue issue in the Bay Area so I don't have > any direct experience. > > Best, > > August > > On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 6:29 AM, Kristopher Schmid > wrote: > >> It is quite ironic that just a week after I posted a question to the group >> on testing the integrity of lightning arrestors, I had one apparently >> faulty >> out of the box. The manifest of this was interesting: when the AC LA >> (LA302R) was connected in parallel on the AC input to a SB3000 inverter, >> there was 125vac neutral to L1, 125vac neutral to L2, and 1Vac L1 to L2. >> SMA tech support suggested the LA as the issue and sure enough, it was. >> Attempting to test good and faulty arrestors with an ohmmeter gave the >> same >> result - off scale open. >> >> Any thoughts or comments from the group? >> >> Kris Schmid >> >> Legacy Solar >> 864 Clam Falls Trail >> Frederic, WI 54837 >> 715-653-4295 >> sol...@legacysolar.com >> www.legacysolar.com >> >> ___ >> List sponsored by Home Power magazine >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Options & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > > -- > August Goers > VP, Engineering > > Luminalt Energy Corporation > 1320 Potrero Avenue > San Francisco, CA 94110 > O: 415.641.4000 > M: 415.559.1525 > aug...@luminalt.com > > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Options & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Lightning Protection System
Thanks, David Not much lightening here. LOTS of leftover & ignorant goo in these specs. Like 20 to 30 kW of VAWT's with specs just like the subject of a recent thread on this list entitled "Wind Scam" Only the best for the US military! Kelly, from mobile On Aug 2, 2010, at 9:29, David Brearley wrote: > Kelly, > > The company we used the most is Bonded Lightning Protection Systems: > > http://www.bondedlp.com/ > > They had local offices for our projects in Austin, TX and a regional HQ. > Also, they had installed many of the lightning protection systems that we > came across on existing buildings, including semiconductor fabs. We’d also > run into them regularly on new construction projects. > > Maybe they can help you or point you to a company that serves the NW? > > There must not be a lot of lightning activity in the area—judging by the > absence of service providers—which makes me wonder if this language is really > appropriate for this particular project. Is it really a design standard for > federal projects? Or is it just goo left in the bid package specifications > from a site in a lightning prone region? > > Best, David > > > > On 8/2/10 1:34 AM, "Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun & Wind" > wrote: > > David, > Sounds like a perfect solution to me. The UL website lists 14 pages of Listed > Installers for lightning protection, about 70% located in the Southeast, and > the closest to WA State in Utah or SoCal. Do you recall the name of any such > firm you liked to work with and were reasonable with their bids? It would be > nice not to have to cold call from such a large list. > > > Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. > Whidbey Sun & Wind > Renewable Energy Systems > 987 Wanamaker Rd. > Coupeville, WA 98239 > ke...@whidbeysunwind.com > PH & FAX: 360.678.7131 > NABCEP Certified PV Installer > WA Electrical Administrator > > > On Aug 1, 2010, at 8:24 AM, David Brearley wrote: > > Kelly, > > When I came across language like this in an RFP, my assumption was that we > needed to work with a specialty lightning protection subcontractor, a firm > listed by UL. I would call them up, give them a project description and > request a quote, which I would build into our cost estimate for the project. > Included in their scope of work is providing a “UL Listed Lightning > Protection Certificate.” You can include that scope of work as a line item in > our proposal. If the proposal requires that you include resumes for key team > members, you might also include the lightning company’s bio as it shows > you’ve done your due diligence. > > On the projects that I managed in this fashion, the lightning protection > company always came in after our construction was substantially complete. > There may be cases where you want to coordinate the that scope of work > differently and get them on site earlier. They should be able to tell you > what will work best, based on the general project description and your > specific equipment grounding scheme. > > David Brearley, Senior Technical Editor > SolarPro magazine > NABCEP Certified PV Installer ™ > david.brear...@solarprofessional.com > > > On 7/31/10 3:28 PM, "Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun & Wind" > wrote: > > > Hi All, > I'm working on the design for a PV & Wind power system for a military > installation. The specs call for Lightning Protection as follows: > > > "Provide a complete lightning protection system with a UL Lightning > Protection Inspection Certificate. > including, but not necessarily limited to, strike termination devices, > conductors, ground terminals, > interconnecting conductors, surge suppression devices, and other connectors > and fittings required for > a complete and usable system. " > > > Anyone have an idea of what qualifies? Is there a package product that has > the "UL Lightning Protection Inspection Certificate"? > > Thanks, > -Kelly > > > Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. > Whidbey Sun & Wind > Renewable Energy Systems > NABCEP Certified PV Installer > ke...@whidbeysunwind.com > 360.678.7131 > > > > > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Options & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Lightning Protection System
David, Sounds like a perfect solution to me. The UL website lists 14 pages of Listed Installers for lightning protection, about 70% located in the Southeast, and the closest to WA State in Utah or SoCal. Do you recall the name of any such firm you liked to work with and were reasonable with their bids? It would be nice not to have to cold call from such a large list. Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems 987 Wanamaker Rd. Coupeville, WA 98239 ke...@whidbeysunwind.com PH & FAX: 360.678.7131 NABCEP Certified PV Installer WA Electrical Administrator On Aug 1, 2010, at 8:24 AM, David Brearley wrote: Kelly, When I came across language like this in an RFP, my assumption was that we needed to work with a specialty lightning protection subcontractor, a firm listed by UL. I would call them up, give them a project description and request a quote, which I would build into our cost estimate for the project. Included in their scope of work is providing a “UL Listed Lightning Protection Certificate.” You can include that scope of work as a line item in our proposal. If the proposal requires that you include resumes for key team members, you might also include the lightning company’s bio as it shows you’ve done your due diligence. On the projects that I managed in this fashion, the lightning protection company always came in after our construction was substantially complete. There may be cases where you want to coordinate the that scope of work differently and get them on site earlier. They should be able to tell you what will work best, based on the general project description and your specific equipment grounding scheme. David Brearley, Senior Technical Editor SolarPro magazine NABCEP Certified PV Installer ™ david.brear...@solarprofessional.com On 7/31/10 3:28 PM, "Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun & Wind" > wrote: Hi All, I'm working on the design for a PV & Wind power system for a military installation. The specs call for Lightning Protection as follows: "Provide a complete lightning protection system with a UL Lightning Protection Inspection Certificate. including, but not necessarily limited to, strike termination devices, conductors, ground terminals, interconnecting conductors, surge suppression devices, and other connectors and fittings required for a complete and usable system. " Anyone have an idea of what qualifies? Is there a package product that has the "UL Lightning Protection Inspection Certificate"? Thanks, -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems NABCEP Certified PV Installer ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360.678.7131 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Lightning Protection System
Hi All, I'm working on the design for a PV & Wind power system for a military installation. The specs call for Lightning Protection as follows: "Provide a complete lightning protection system with a UL Lightning Protection Inspection Certificate. including, but not necessarily limited to, strike termination devices, conductors, ground terminals, interconnecting conductors, surge suppression devices, and other connectors and fittings required for a complete and usable system. " Anyone have an idea of what qualifies? Is there a package product that has the "UL Lightning Protection Inspection Certificate"? Thanks, -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems NABCEP Certified PV Installer ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360.678.7131 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Voltage Drop Calculator Templates
Hi All, I got a request to make my voltage drop excel templates available in both the new and old excel formats. I also changed the calculator so you can input your own Imp multiplier (if desired). Here they are: Excel 97-2003 version: http://www.mechanicalmike.com/solar/DC_Voltage_Drop_Calculations_Template_07 _26_2010.xlt Excel 2007 version: http://www.mechanicalmike.com/solar/DC_Voltage_Drop_Calculations_Template_07 _26_2010.xltx - Mike --- Michael Kelly Applications Engineer NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer T toplogo Solectria Renewables, LLC 360 Merrimack St. Building 9, Floor 2 Lawrence, MA 01843 Phone: 978-683-9700 ext. 167 Fax: 978-683-9702 <mailto:m...@solren.com> m...@solren.com <http://www.solren.com/> www.solren.com <>___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] calculating DC voltage drop
Allan, I use Imp*1.25 because NEC calls out a 125% adder for unexpected high-insolation conditions (snowscapes, cloud effect, yellow houses next door, etc). And because I am an engineer and like to be conservative :). -Mike --- Michael Kelly Applications Engineer NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer T toplogo Solectria Renewables, LLC 360 Merrimack St. Building 9, Floor 2 Lawrence, MA 01843 Phone: 978-683-9700 ext. 167 Fax: 978-683-9702 m...@solren.com www.solren.com <http://www.solren.com/> From: Allan Sindelar [mailto:al...@positiveenergysolar.com] Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 5:26 PM To: m...@solren.com; RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] calculating DC voltage drop Mike, Why do you make this exception, please? Allan Sindelar <mailto:al...@positiveenergysolar.com> al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com <http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/> <>___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] calculating DC voltage drop
Hi All, I agree with Ray with the exception that I use Imp*1.25 in my calculations. I developed a simple spreadsheet for either fixed conductor size or for fixed voltage drop. You can feel free to use it by downloading here: http://www.mechanicalmike.com/solar/DC_Voltage_Drop_Calculations_Template_04 _20_2010.xltx. - Mike --- Michael Kelly Applications Engineer NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer T toplogo Solectria Renewables, LLC 360 Merrimack St. Building 9, Floor 2 Lawrence, MA 01843 Phone: 978-683-9700 ext. 167 Fax: 978-683-9702 m...@solren.com www.solren.com <http://www.solren.com/> From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of R Ray Walters Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 3:45 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] calculating DC voltage drop I use actual operating current, without multipliers. I also use actual temperatures, not the worst case temperatures that many use. I created a spread sheet that uses the NEC adjustments for wire temperature, (see NEC chapter 9, table 8, FPN 2) It makes quite a difference! Volt drop and the accompanying loss of energy production needs to be looked at realistically under normal operating conditions. Adding worst case multipliers is necessary for sizing cables and breakers for safety, but it isn't appropriate when calculating energy losses. We shouldn't do an energy loss analysis for a situation that might never occur, or for only a very small % of the time. A correct analysis will reflect actual losses over the lifetime of the system, so that an informed economic decision can be made. Especially on larger systems with long runs, its worth it to you and the client to use real world numbers, not blind over sizing. I got into this over a decade ago, when I noticed that actual measured volt drop was much less than calculated, now my calculations match real measurements. R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Jul 22, 2010, at 1:22 PM, Marco Mangelsdorf wrote: When calculating the voltage drop from a PV array to the inverter, what's the most common accepted practice? To use the Isc X 1.25 or 1.56 as the multiplier? Thanks, marco ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/> <>___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Real world PV production
Joel, Thanks for the information. 35% loss due to to smog or soiling is a big hit and, I'm sure, an exception. Still, if the loss is even 20% it supports the concept that an array here on the cool, cloudy west side of the WA Cascades can perform on par with an equivalent array in a hot, dusty/smoggy location in CA. I'd still like to hear of actual less-than-stellar production numbers recorded in such situations. -Kelly On Jun 10, 2010, at 9:02 AM, Joel Davidson wrote: PVWatts is a good general estimator when you fine-tune the derate factor. For single crystal and multicrystalline arrays, I generally use 0.65 for battery-based PV and inverter systems and 0.82 for batteryless inverter systems. PVWatts annual results are l5% low for Unisolar arrays because PVWatts uses the crystalline silicon temperature coefficient. Even though PVWatts2 may seem more accurate, it does not factor in unique local climate conditions like California coastal morning and afternoon fog or inland persistent winter Tule fog. However, NREL's climate data does include LA's "June gloom" see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_Gloom For flat roofs in snowy climates like the Unisolar project in Rochester NY, I deduct 30% from PVWatt's November through March estimates for a fairly accurate annual estimate. Powerlight (now SunPower) also uses an additional 30% monthly derating for flat roofs in snowy locations. PVWatts does not account for really dusty and dirty air locations. Bill Brooks worked at PVUSA and is very knowledgeable about power loss from soiling from agricultural dust in central California. Bill also measured 35% power loss at the Long Beach CA harbor waste-to- energy powerplant PV systems. That location and most LA county freeways experience particulate pollution that not only reduces PV production but causes permanent respiratory damage to children and shorten the lives of elderly people, sort of like the canary in the mine. Joel Davidson - Original Message - From: Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun & Wind To: RE-wrenches Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 7:57 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Real world PV production Thanks, Don, Performance predictions such as from PV Watts VASTLY underestimate PV production in our area. For example, PV Watts estimates 940 kWh/ kW for a 4:12 pitch at 180˚, whereas such systems are actually producing up to 1300 kWh/kW (as measured by a renenue-grade production meter). We have to set the derating factor to nearly 100% in order for the predictions to match. I assume that is partly due to coarse irradiance data (not accounting for higher irradiance for our location in the rain shadow of the Olympic Mountains), but also due to our clear, cool, windy summers, good natural washing, and (perhaps) dispersed distribution of irradiance. I want to know if the opposite is true: Do performance predictions OVERESTIMATE PV production in areas with historically high irradiance, but significant soiling and temperature issues. Thanks, -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360-678-7131 On Jun 9, 2010, at 8:59 AM, i2p wrote: On Jun 9, 2010, at 8:22:12 AM, "Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun & Wind" wrote: Thanks, Joel How about PV systems away from the coast, in a hotter, dustier location, like Bakersfield, Fresno, Sacramento, Palm Springs, etc? In central CA we do a little better. I casually monitor several systems in this area and expect around 1500-1600 kwh/kw. per year. Don Loweburg ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Real world PV production
Thanks, Don, Performance predictions such as from PV Watts VASTLY underestimate PV production in our area. For example, PV Watts estimates 940 kWh/kW for a 4:12 pitch at 180˚, whereas such systems are actually producing up to 1300 kWh/kW (as measured by a renenue-grade production meter). We have to set the derating factor to nearly 100% in order for the predictions to match. I assume that is partly due to coarse irradiance data (not accounting for higher irradiance for our location in the rain shadow of the Olympic Mountains), but also due to our clear, cool, windy summers, good natural washing, and (perhaps) dispersed distribution of irradiance. I want to know if the opposite is true: Do performance predictions OVERESTIMATE PV production in areas with historically high irradiance, but significant soiling and temperature issues. Thanks, -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360-678-7131 On Jun 9, 2010, at 8:59 AM, i2p wrote: On Jun 9, 2010, at 8:22:12 AM, "Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun & Wind" > wrote: Thanks, Joel How about PV systems away from the coast, in a hotter, dustier location, like Bakersfield, Fresno, Sacramento, Palm Springs, etc? In central CA we do a little better. I casually monitor several systems in this area and expect around 1500-1600 kwh/kw. per year. Don Loweburg ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Real world PV production
Thanks, Joel How about PV systems away from the coast, in a hotter, dustier location, like Bakersfield, Fresno, Sacramento, Palm Springs, etc? -Kelly On Jun 8, 2010, at 2:19 PM, Joel Davidson wrote: 1433 kWh/kW/year 20 each Siemens SP75 single crystal silicon solar modules Array mounted 6 inches above comp shingle roof Array azimuth 205 degrees; tilt 18 degrees 1 each SMA SWR2100U inverter Culver City, 5 miles north of LAX and 5 miles east of Pacific Ocean Low to medium air quality but mostly better than the rest of the Los Angeles basin Average maximum summer temp. 81 degrees F. Average minimum winter temp. 46 degrees F. - Original Message - From: "Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun & Wind" To: "RE Wrenches listserve" Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 10:34 AM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Real world PV production CA Wrenches, What does a PV system in a hot, smoggy or dusty area of California actually produce, in kWh/kWp/year? Not an ideal system that is washed every month, but real-world, average system figures, verified by a production meter. Thanks, -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems 987 Wanamaker Rd. Coupeville, WA 98239 ke...@whidbeysunwind.com PH & FAX: 360.678.7131 NABCEP Certified PV Installer WA Electrical Administrator ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Real world PV production
CA Wrenches, What does a PV system in a hot, smoggy or dusty area of California actually produce, in kWh/kWp/year? Not an ideal system that is washed every month, but real-world, average system figures, verified by a production meter. Thanks, -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems 987 Wanamaker Rd. Coupeville, WA 98239 ke...@whidbeysunwind.com PH & FAX: 360.678.7131 NABCEP Certified PV Installer WA Electrical Administrator ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] SWH - mixing valves
Hi Bill, The valves are the AM-1 series. I wasn't aware that these incorporate check valves. In fact, we have had problems in some systems having HW recirculation with the hot circulating back through the cold supply, causing us to install separate check valves in the cold lines (which we install as standard practice, now). The specifications say, "Check valves, as indicated, may be installed, to prevent migration of hot water into the cold branch, and cold water into the hot branch through the SparcoMix Valve". The "indicated" check valves on the spec schematics are external to the AM-1 mix valve. Are integrated check valves a relatively new feature? My specs are old, and we haven't installed any new valves within the past year or so. I have seen the "crossover" problem on some systems. I don't think that is the cause, here. I have (calibrated) temp gauges on the hot and the mix lines right at the mixing valve to see what's going out. I suspect THAT is the problem - I can SEE that it's not working right, whereas most people don't know and just adjust the temp at the faucet.. -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360-678-7131 On May 20, 2010, at 4:29 AM, Bill Loesch wrote: Hi again, Kelly, You mentioned backflow issues in your post, which I should have addressed with my previous reply. If the Honeywell valve you are using is a Honeywell AM-1 Thermostatic Mixing Valve it incorporates dual check valves on the inlets. Those check valves are removable and those check valves are also susceptible to scaling if the water quality is deficient. (See previous post.) The AM-1 has a Teflon coating which would delay the effects of scaling, but would ultimately succumb. The integrated check valves as well as the mixing valve itself, will also produce a pressure reduction in the system. A phenomena known in the plumbing trade as "plumbing crossover" and perhaps more descriptively labeled as plumbing bypass, is the situation where (typically) the cold water flows into the hot water side. This can be illustrated with the homebrew shower where the throttling valves on the hot and cold lines are supplemented with a third valve to allow the mixing (throttling) valves to remain preset and the shutoff is downstream of the two mix valves. This is an excellent written illustration and relatively obvious. Unfortunately, what is much more common is the not so obvious, widespread use of single handle faucets. Once the seals on the cartridge, module, insert (terminology dependent on manufacturer) become worn, the same situation exists with the single handle faucet as described with the homebrew three valve shower. The easy test for this condition is to stop the flow of hot water at the source, then open all hot water faucets. _Any_ flow, at any faucet, after a delay to allow gravity drainage to occur, would indicate a plumbing crossover/bypass _somewhere_ in the system. Some single handle faucets also incorporate dual check valves into their construction. Again, poor water quality can render those inop in either or both directions. Thanks for your interest in getting a solution to this pesky problem. Bill Loesch Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar - Original Message - From: "Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun & Wind" To: "RE Wrenches listserve" Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 1:14 AM Subject: [RE-wrenches] SWH - mixing valves Thermal wrenches, I'm having an ongoing issue with mixing valves in my own system not keeping a steady mix domestic HW temperature as the tank temperature varies with solar heating. If I set it for (say) 122˚F mix when the tank is 135˚, it seems to hold that differential at all tank temps - i.e. when the tank is hotter the mix is too hot (sometimes dangerously so), and when colder the mix is too cold for a comfortable shower. Thus, I need to change the setting all the time. I'm now using a Honeywell valve with a 100˚ - 145˚ range. This is a replacement for a valve with a wider range that acted the same way. Any ideas, suggestions for better valves, or? This has me wondering how many of our SWH customers are experiencing a similar thing, but just aren't bothered enough to say anything. We seem to have encountered many plumbing situations where the mixing valve allowed weird backflow or siphoning situations to mess with system operation, especially with HW recirculation. I thought I had all such causes eliminated on my system, but maybe not. Thanks for sharing your experience with such matters. -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360-678-7131 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrench
Re: [RE-wrenches] SWH - mixing valves
Randy, These valves are the Honeywell Sparcomix AM series, which are certified for "anti-scald" (ASSE 1016 & 1017) The specs show that, for a hot supply range of 120˚ to 180˚, at a position #2, the mix temp should vary only from 116˚ to 122˚. The valve is definitely not working to spec, and not providing "anti- scald" protection. Anyone else seen this in their installations? -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360-678-7131 On May 19, 2010, at 11:01 AM, Randy Brooks wrote: Kelly, Although I'm no plumber, I think there is a difference between "mixing valves" and "anti-scald valves". I believe mixing valves don't change with water temperature, so it's hard to get consistent water temperature at the faucet with varying solar hot water temperature. I believe anti-scald valves adjust cold water input with hot water temperature to prevent an unsafe temperature at the faucet. I'd talk it over with your plumber. take care, Randy Brooks Brooks Solar, Inc. Solar Power for People 140 Columbia View Chelan, WA 98816 509-682-9646 ra...@brookssolar.com www.BrooksSolar.com On May 19, 2010, at 2:14 AM, Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun & Wind wrote: Thermal wrenches, I'm having an ongoing issue with mixing valves in my own system not keeping a steady mix domestic HW temperature as the tank temperature varies with solar heating. If I set it for (say) 122˚F mix when the tank is 135˚, it seems to hold that differential at all tank temps - i.e. when the tank is hotter the mix is too hot (sometimes dangerously so), and when colder the mix is too cold for a comfortable shower. Thus, I need to change the setting all the time. I'm now using a Honeywell valve with a 90˚ - 145˚ range. This is a replacement for a valve with a wider range that acted the same way. Any ideas, suggestions for better valves, or? This has me wondering how many of our SWH customers are experiencing a similar thing, but just aren't bothered enough to say anything. We seem to have encountered many plumbing situations where the mixing valve allowed weird backflow or siphoning situations to mess with system operation, especially with HW recirculation. I thought I had all such causes eliminated on my system, but maybe not. Thanks for sharing your experience with such matters. -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360-678-7131 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] SWH - mixing valves
Doug, I HAVE had tank (SS) temps in excess of 180˚, but rarely. These valves are the Honeywell Sparcomix AM series. I don't see any temperature limitations listed in the specifications. -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360-678-7131 On May 19, 2010, at 6:48 AM, Doug Wells wrote: Kelly, I have also seen mixing valves get leaky over time. Many mixing valves are designed for controlled input from a boiler at steady 140 degree temps. It is not uncommon for SHW tanks to reach 180+ degrees in certain conditions. If exposed to these higher temps the valves can begin to loose accuracy. Usually they are designed to "fault" into the cold position, so the begin to leak in a little cold and the client will complain about low temps at the faucet/ shower. Doug Wells The Solar Specialists Morrisville, VT 05661 (p) 802-223-7014 (c) 802-498-5856 www.thesolarspecialists.com On May 19, 2010, at 2:14 AM, Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun & Wind wrote: Thermal wrenches, I'm having an ongoing issue with mixing valves in my own system not keeping a steady mix domestic HW temperature as the tank temperature varies with solar heating. If I set it for (say) 122˚F mix when the tank is 135˚, it seems to hold that differential at all tank temps - i.e. when the tank is hotter the mix is too hot (sometimes dangerously so), and when colder the mix is too cold for a comfortable shower. Thus, I need to change the setting all the time. I'm now using a Honeywell valve with a 90˚ - 145˚ range. This is a replacement for a valve with a wider range that acted the same way. Any ideas, suggestions for better valves, or? This has me wondering how many of our SWH customers are experiencing a similar thing, but just aren't bothered enough to say anything. We seem to have encountered many plumbing situations where the mixing valve allowed weird backflow or siphoning situations to mess with system operation, especially with HW recirculation. I thought I had all such causes eliminated on my system, but maybe not. Thanks for sharing your experience with such matters. -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360-678-7131 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] SWH - mixing valves
Bill, The water is quite hard (30 grains/gal), but there is a softener on the DHW that lowers the CaCO3 level significantly. I thought that this might have been a contributing factor with the previous mixing valve, but replacement (~2 years ago) didn't address the problem. Other than hardness minerals are quite low. -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360-678-7131 On May 19, 2010, at 6:26 AM, Bill Loesch wrote: Hi Kelly, Is water quality an issue in that location? More than one tankless manufacturer lists max levels of all or some of the following: pH - 6.5 - 8.5 TDS (Total Disolved Solids) - 500 ppm Total hardness - 6 grains Aluminium - 2.0 ppm Chlorides -250 ppm Copper - 10 ppm Iron - 0.3 ppm Manganese - 0.05 ppm Zinc - 0.5 ppm as qualifying for the addition of a water conditioner or softener. In my experience, many folks, even with conditioning/softening equipment installed (oftentimes inop), are blissfully ignorant of the effects of water quality until something stops the hot water. I personally like Bob-O's approach of a warning label at the hot faucet for solar applications. The code officials in my neck of the woods do not share my enthusiasm for this approach. Because here in STL, we additionally have a chloramine presence in the water this adds a requirement for specialty o-rings, etc. for control items in the water path. Hope this helps, Bill Loesch Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar - Original Message - From: "Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun & Wind" To: "RE Wrenches listserve" Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 1:14 AM Subject: [RE-wrenches] SWH - mixing valves Thermal wrenches, I'm having an ongoing issue with mixing valves in my own system not keeping a steady mix domestic HW temperature as the tank temperature varies with solar heating. If I set it for (say) 122˚F mix when the tank is 135˚, it seems to hold that differential at all tank temps - i.e. when the tank is hotter the mix is too hot (sometimes dangerously so), and when colder the mix is too cold for a comfortable shower. Thus, I need to change the setting all the time. I'm now using a Honeywell valve with a 90˚ - 145˚ range. This is a replacement for a valve with a wider range that acted the same way. Any ideas, suggestions for better valves, or? This has me wondering how many of our SWH customers are experiencing a similar thing, but just aren't bothered enough to say anything. We seem to have encountered many plumbing situations where the mixing valve allowed weird backflow or siphoning situations to mess with system operation, especially with HW recirculation. I thought I had all such causes eliminated on my system, but maybe not. Thanks for sharing your experience with such matters. -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360-678-7131 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] SWH - mixing valves
Thermal wrenches, I'm having an ongoing issue with mixing valves in my own system not keeping a steady mix domestic HW temperature as the tank temperature varies with solar heating. If I set it for (say) 122˚F mix when the tank is 135˚, it seems to hold that differential at all tank temps - i.e. when the tank is hotter the mix is too hot (sometimes dangerously so), and when colder the mix is too cold for a comfortable shower. Thus, I need to change the setting all the time. I'm now using a Honeywell valve with a 90˚ - 145˚ range. This is a replacement for a valve with a wider range that acted the same way. Any ideas, suggestions for better valves, or? This has me wondering how many of our SWH customers are experiencing a similar thing, but just aren't bothered enough to say anything. We seem to have encountered many plumbing situations where the mixing valve allowed weird backflow or siphoning situations to mess with system operation, especially with HW recirculation. I thought I had all such causes eliminated on my system, but maybe not. Thanks for sharing your experience with such matters. -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360-678-7131 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] SWH - glycerin HTF
Thermal Wrenches: Have any of you tried the glycerin-based heat transfer fluid instead of glycol? We're interested in its purported resistance to heat degradation, perhaps extending the period between service changes. The particular mfr and brand we're considering is Whitlam "Solar Hi-Temp. It's rated for continuous operation up to 180˚ C and resistance to degradation in short-term exposures up to 232˚C. What's the downside (other than cost)? Thanks, Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems NABCEP Certified PV Installer ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360.678.7131 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Arc Flash Hazards
Hi Matt, I recently asked an expert where arc flash would be an issue for PV installers. The answer was: not much threat on DC side, because of (relatively) low power, on the AC side, it's the 480V enclosures. Blessings, Kelly Kelly Larson, Electrical Engineer Box 104 Piercy, CA 95587 707-247-3000 NAPCEP Certified Solar PV Installer CA C-10 # 868189 solarke...@asis.com On Mar 23, 2010, at 4:36 PM, Matt Lafferty wrote: Wrenches, You know solar is prime-time when it hits the mainstream "What's wrong with this picture" quiz! http://ecmweb.com/nec/whats_wrong_here/whats_wrong_020410/ How are you dealing with NEC 110.16? 2008 NEC 110.16 Flash Protection. Electrical equipment, such as switchboards, panelboards, industrial control panels, meter socket enclosures, and motor control centers, that are in other than dwelling occupancies, and are likely to require examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while energized shall be field marked to warn qualified persons of potential electric arc flash hazards. The marking shall be located so as to be clearly visible to qualified persons before examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance of the equipment. I'm seeing all flavors out there. Including the most common, pretending it doesn't exist. Back in the day, relying on Qualified Persons Only and Danger! High Voltage! You Can Die If You Touch It (or similar) was enough. Are you finding building inspectors that are requiring the specific Arc Flash Hazard signage? In addition to, or in lieu of, other signage? Separate, but related issue: Now that OSHA and NFPA 70e are dancing to the same song, has this affected your operations? If so, in what way? Keep it Safe and Sunny! -Matt Lafferty ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org Kelly Larson, Electrical Engineer Box 104 Piercy, CA 95587 707-247-3000 NAPCEP Certified Solar PV Installer CA C-10 # 868189 solarke...@asis.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
