[RE-wrenches] Replacement for Whisper 500

[Nathan Stumpff]

Wrenches,

A client of ours recently had a catastrophic failure of his Whisper 500 turbine 
(weld completely failed, turbine destroyed, very ugly) and is in the market for 
a replacement.

Any recommendations out there for a good, quality unit in a similar size range 
of 3 kW? It is a 48V off-grid system. Any experience, positive or negative with 
the Luminous branded Whisper 500 units? Given previous experiences with the 
SouthWest units and the nature of this particular failure I am reluctant to 
recommend going that route unless Luminous has done some serious upgrades...

Our client wants to salvage as much as possible, and I am having a hard time 
coming up with anything that would come close to being able to use with his 
existing tower, 80' guyed SouthWest make.

As always, much appreciated,
-Nathan

--
Nathan J. Stumpff
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional #091209-175
NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer #032412-14
Project Manager | Arctic Sun, LLC
nat...@arcticsun-llc.com   | (907) 457-1297
www.reina-llc.com | 
www.arcticsun-llc.com
[Description: ZA102637861]

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Return on investment information

[Nathan Stumpff]

Chris,

You could try System Advisor Model (SAM) from NREL for free:

https://sam.nrel.gov/

Cheers,
-Nathan

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Nathan J. Stumpff
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional #091209-175
NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer #032412-14
Project Manager | Arctic Sun, LLC
nat...@arcticsun-llc.com   | (907) 457-1297
www.reina-llc.com | 
www.arcticsun-llc.com
[Description: ZA102637861]



From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Chris Daum
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 8:45 AM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Return on investment information


Dear wrenches:

We are bidding a job for a thrifty fellow; it's a small commercial system 
(7.2KW array), and he's interested on the figures relating to his return on 
investment.  Does anyone have any link or software where we can crunch the 
numbers and get him an idea of his real ROI?  Besides the 30% federal 
incentive, there is also a one-time state tax incentive as well as a grant from 
the local utility

Thanks as always for your brain power!

Chris Daum, Oasis Montana Inc.

406-777-4309, www.oasismontana.com


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase commercial

[Nathan Stumpff]

Hi Eric,

It is 25 inverters on a 20A circuit, but only on 208 three phase. Each micro 
connects to the cable in an alternating way (L1/L2, then L2/L3, then L3/L1, 
etc.) so with 25 micros there are either 8 or 9 micros on each combination.

9 x 1.0 A x 1.732 (square root of 3) x 1.25 = 19.48 A = 20 A breaker

Cheers,
-Nathan

--
Nathan J. Stumpff
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional #091209-175
NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer #032412-14
Project Manager | Arctic Sun, LLC
nat...@arcticsun-llc.com   | (907) 457-1297
www.reina-llc.com | 
www.arcticsun-llc.com
[cid:image001.png@01CEC02A.F733F560]

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of SunHarvest
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2013 10:52 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase commercial

Hey Wrenches & Nick Soleil (with whom I worked at APS for a time I believe...),

I'm not familiar with Enphase commercial applications and am currently working 
through a commercial design. Enphase, on their M215 datasheets claim up to 25 
micros per branch, at 1.0A each, with each branch terminating at a 20A breaker. 
By my calculations, 25 micros at 1.0A each (25A*1.25=31.25A) need to terminate 
at a 40A breaker. Anyone know what I'm missing or know how the 20A breaker 
design gets past the AHJ?

Eric Stikes
SunHarvest
(530) 798-3738
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Re: [RE-wrenches] SHW - parallel tanks

[Nathan Stumpff]

Kirk,

We install this standard on basically all of our two tank systems. Small 
circulator w/ check valve from domestic tank HOT to solar preheat tank COLD. 
The 'makeup' water for that line is the one already installed, preheat HOT to 
domestic COLD. It operates on a delta-T control on both tanks, so if the 
preheat tank is warmer than the domestic tank, it moves that hot water from 
preheat to domestic. Benefits are increased solar storage (domestic tank 
becomes usable storage,) cooler preheat tank temps (so better collector 
efficiencies,) and no backup running when there is low DHW usage and the 
domestic tank cools off before the preheat tank.

The controls we use (RESOL) have this function preprogrammed, but any 
controller with a spare delta-T relay could be used if you have sensors on both 
tanks.

Works like a champ on really simple systems, we have had to monkey around and 
do some multi-tiered controls on systems with several heat sources to keep it 
from running at inappropriate times.

I'd be happy to share some drawings off-list if you like.

Cheers,
-Nathan

--
Nathan J. Stumpff
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional #091209-175
NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer #032412-14
Project Manager | Arctic Sun, LLC
nat...@arcticsun-llc.com   | (907) 457-1297
www.reina-llc.com | 
www.arcticsun-llc.com
[cid:image001.png@01CEB93C.3E90]

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Kirk Herander
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 2:19 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] SHW - parallel tanks

Hi,

Every summer I get a few calls from annoyed hot water customers who can't stand 
hearing their boiler fire merely to keep the indirect tank up to setpoint 
temperature, when of course the solar preheat tank is at 160 degrees or better 
at mid-day. So what's the best way to transfer heat, in essence temporarily 
putting the tanks in parallel, from the solar tank to indirect? I can think of 
a few possibilities using a circulator and temperature controller, and a 
additional connection between the tanks, such as the tank drains plumbed 
together as a return line, but where is the best place to locate the circulator 
in a standard preheat arrangement (i.e. hot output of solar preheat plumbed to 
cold input of indirect tank)?

Kirk Herander
VT Solar, LLC
dba Vermont Solar Engineering
NABCEPTM Certified Inaugural Certificant
NYSERDA-eligible Installer
VT RE Incentive Program Partner
802.863.1202

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Whisper 500 service

[Nathan Stumpff]

Hi Ross,

Just back from the site and I do have a couple of questions if you don't mind.


-  Shock absorber appears in good shape other than the blown out 
polyurethane bushing. I can easily find complete replacements for the whole 
shock absorber, but haven't found anyone selling just the bushing, you wouldn't 
have any ideas where one could find that?
[cid:image003.jpg@01CEB936.9401C6C0]



-  The SOOW cable coming from the brush assembly is cracked in several 
spots (picture attached.) Any chance for a field repair on this or replacement 
assembly from somewhere at this point? Or am I better off just sealing it up 
the best I can? The actual wires appear fine, just the outer layer is damaged.
[cid:image007.jpg@01CEB936.9401C6C0]


-  The blade edge tape is basically intact except for a couple of 
inches of hanging flap, which the customer has told me has been that way since 
the original install. How bad does it have to get before you would worry about 
it? Any source for replacement?

-  This is a 48V system. Turbine wiring is confirmed correct, battery 
wiring is correct, but the diversion load is wired differently than in the 
manual. The diversion load is 4 ea. 0.75 Ohm resistors, looks like 2 x 2 
series/parallel. It looks like the original installer removed the factory dump 
load wiring and installed their own. Do you have or know where I can find a 
more detailed wiring diagram for the diversion load? The manual is a little 
vague and doesn't anywhere show the actual diversion load wiring.

Thanks so much Ross, it is really generous of you to answer being off of the SW 
payroll as it were. If you find yourself in Fairbanks, Alaska anytime, give us 
a call and we'll show you around and take you out to lunch!

All best,
-Nathan

--
Nathan J. Stumpff
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional #091209-175
NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer #032412-14
Project Manager | Arctic Sun, LLC
nat...@arcticsun-llc.com   | (907) 457-1297
www.reina-llc.com | 
www.arcticsun-llc.com
[cid:image001.png@01CEB932.E3647CC0]

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Ross Taylor
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 10:32 AM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Whisper 500 service

Hi Nathan,

I worked for SWWP for years and would be happy to speak with you and answer any 
questions I can.

Definitely check the furling return spring and make sure it's not broken.  It 
should be about 4.5-inches long.  It's a plastic coated steel spring and when 
the coating cracks (especially in coastal environments) the spring corrodes and 
breaks.  With a broken spring, the turbine can remain balanced in furl.

Also check the shock absorber and make sure the shaft isn't corroded and that 
it moves freely in both directions.  It's a dual-speed racing shock, moving 
faster in one direction (extension) than the other (compression).

Verify that the phase-to-phase output voltages are similar.  You'll have three 
measurements and they should be close.

Of course, also check the bearings and fasteners as well.  That's a given, 
sorry to state the obvious.  While you're there, also make sure the original 
installer put the blades on right.  The four-bolt pattern is symmetrical, so 
it's possible to install the blades backwards.  Most folks not familiar with 
wind turbines would put the blades on with the curved side facing the wind...

And, finally, see if the customer can provide you with any output data.  If 
it's performing well, that's a good sign the blades were put on right and the 
voltages were configured correctly.  But, if they called you due to low output 
concerns, then it might be wise to check the voltage settings.  The 500 can be 
set up for 24, 36, or 48 volt systems.  There are three things to change and if 
the original installer skipped one of them it can either lead to damage or low 
output, depending upon what was done.

If you have more questions or need to bounce anything off me, feel free to 
email me directly.  wind.trai...@gmail.com

Best wishes,

Ross

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[RE-wrenches] Whisper 500 Service

[Nathan Stumpff]

Hello wrenches,

We were hired to service a Whisper 500 turbine installed about 3 years ago by 
others. It is currently working and producing power.

I have a list of improvements I want to make to the original installation 
including work to the foundation and wiring, but was looking for any advice on 
other things to look at while the turbine is on the ground. I have the manual 
which has a list of some pretty obvious things, but was hoping some of you out 
there with more experience with this unit would be able to offer any advice on 
specific parts to look at, things to test, or materials and parts that may be 
useful from your experience.

Many thanks!
-Nathan

--
Nathan J. Stumpff
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional #091209-175
NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer #032412-14
Project Manager | Arctic Sun, LLC
nat...@arcticsun-llc.com   | (907) 457-1297
www.reina-llc.com | 
www.arcticsun-llc.com
[cid:image001.png@01CEB549.1AFCAC90]

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Dual Radian install

[Nathan Stumpff]

Re: FNDC vs. Pentametric, well now that you pose the question, it probably 
really boils down to personal preference and experience. I have installed a big 
pile of Pentametrics and it has been easy and they have worked really well, and 
my few experiences with the FNDC have been messy, although not through any 
fault of the equipment or OutBack. The FNDC just didn't work the way I thought 
it should, and it serves me right for not reading the manual more closely 
BEFORE I installed the thing.

I have always liked the 'fuel gauge' effect of the Pentametric display unit, 
which we typically put out where the customer will walk by it often. I guess 
some people put the MATE3 remote from the inverter room, but I would personally 
probably not ever recommend this. Also, I suppose the LAN/www connection 
options could serve this purpose well, but I don't have as much experience with 
it yet. I don't know, the online connections and monitoring are fun and novel 
for a bit, but I imagine people lose interest pretty quickly. I think having a 
box on the wall that gives you a snapshot into your battery bank's life every 
time you walk by has a lot of value.

Plus IMHO Bogart is just an awesome company. Not necessarily the most 
compelling reasons in the big picture...

Would be very much interested in info on some of your custom bypass solutions!

-Nathan

--
Nathan J. Stumpff
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional #091209-175
NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer #032412-14
Project Manager | Arctic Sun, LLC
nat...@arcticsun-llc.com <mailto:nat...@arcticsun-llc.com>  | (907) 457-1297
www.reina-llc.com<http://www.reina-llc.com/> | 
www.arcticsun-llc.com<http://www.arcticsun-llc.com/>
[cid:image001.png@01CE91E6.49581CE0]<http://www.facebook.com/ArcticSunLLC>

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of William Miller
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2013 2:01 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Dual Radian install

Nathan:

Thanks to you and all the others for the speedy replies.  We installed one 
single Radian and I will never again buy a pre-wired GSLC.  The wiring was 
sloppy and it is unrealistic to try and cram the AC and DC switching into one 
or two of these cabinets.

More and more frequently we forego using the standard BOS AC Cabinets for AC 
distribution and instead go directly into standard outboard AC cabinets.  This 
is true for FX, SW, MX and Radian installations.  Here's how we used to do this 
with SW inverters:  
http://millersolar.com/MillerSolar/Portfolio/Inverters/battery_iinverters/full_size_photos/3_input_sw.JPG

We have been designing and building our own bypass interlock brackets.  With 
some aluminum stock, a band saw and a little ingenuity we have been able to 
build any interlock we need.  For this installation we will back-feed the 
generator into an extra breaker in the inverter-fed panel  We will interlock it 
with the two inverter fed breakers and have a very reliable and inexpensive 
bypass.  I am fixing to do an article on my web site featuring the various 
interlock solutions we have built.

(This is off the subject, but one can use a single phase panel to handle the 
output distribution for a 120 only inverter system as well as provide a bypass. 
 One bus is inverter fed and the other is gen fed.  Properly configured 
breakers with an interlock provide the bypass capabilities.)

I am curious about why you would recommend the Petametric.  It handles only 
three shunts just like the FNDC.  I understand you can install an unlimited 
number of charge controllers to the FNDC (and maybe the Pentametric as well) as 
long as you shunt the combined negatives with any shunt having the correct 
amps/mv ratio.  The FNDC integrates with the Mate 3 which seems desirable to me 
over the Pentametric.  Comments?

Again, thanks to everyone.

William






[cid:image003.jpg@01CE91EC.F5C79450]
17395 Oak Rd. Atascadero, CA 93422
www.millersolar.com<http://www.millersolar.com/>
805-438-5600 voice*
*Note: above number replaces cell number



From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Nathan Stumpff
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2013 2:04 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Dual Radian install
We have installed one dual Radian system. We looked at the prewired 
distribution boxes from OutBack (MidNite's wasn't out yet at that time) but 
they had no bypass solution for two inverters. We ended up using an external 
100 A, 2 pole, double throw safety switch for an AC bypass from the generator 
feed, a little spendy but the only thing we could come up with. The newer 
MidNite E-Panel Master & Slave setup deals with the bypass, I haven't gone 
through to price it out to see if it makes sense yet, but I bet it does, 
especial

Re: [RE-wrenches] Dual Radian install

[Nathan Stumpff]

We have installed one dual Radian system. We looked at the prewired 
distribution boxes from OutBack (MidNite's wasn't out yet at that time) but 
they had no bypass solution for two inverters. We ended up using an external 
100 A, 2 pole, double throw safety switch for an AC bypass from the generator 
feed, a little spendy but the only thing we could come up with. The newer 
MidNite E-Panel Master & Slave setup deals with the bypass, I haven't gone 
through to price it out to see if it makes sense yet, but I bet it does, 
especially since you can use dinrail breakers instead of all panel mount, as is 
the case with OutBack.

Not sure if you like or are planning on using the FlexNet DC, but on our 
install we had two inverters and two charge controllers, so the otherwise 
convenient triple-shunt-busbar option (OutBack) didn't really do much for us. 
Kinda dumb you can't use two FlexNet DCs... When I do it again I would probably 
steer the customer towards a Pentametric.

Ditto to the comments on the firmware upgrade and spacing the inverters. Next 
time I will definitely use a few nipples between the distribution boxes, the 
doors are way too tight when spaced right next to each other.

Cheers,
-Nathan

--
Nathan J. Stumpff
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional #091209-175
NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer #032412-14
Project Manager | Arctic Sun, LLC
nat...@arcticsun-llc.com   | (907) 457-1297
www.reina-llc.com | 
www.arcticsun-llc.com
[cid:image001.png@01CE91D5.F998DF10]

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of William Miller
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2013 11:50 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Dual Radian install

Friends:


I am bidding installation of two Radian inverters. Anyone out there done this 
yet?  Got any advice?

Thanks in advance,

William Miller


[cid:image003.jpg@01CE91DC.3A678AE0]
17395 Oak Rd. Atascadero, CA 93422
www.millersolar.com
805-438-5600 voice*
*Note: above number replaces cell number

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[RE-wrenches] Fronius Arc-Fault Protection

[Nathan Stumpff]

Wrenches,

It looks like the new Fronius Arc-Fault detecting line is available through 
distribution (IG Plus Advanced...) Anyone had a chance to try it out? Any 
initial impressions?

It makes me a little nervous that it still isn't on their website other than a 
short press release and the person I got at tech support didn't know it was 
out...

As always, any thoughts appreciated,
-Nathan

--
Nathan J. Stumpff
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional #091209-175
NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer #032412-14
Project Manager | Arctic Sun, LLC
nat...@arcticsun-llc.com   | (907) 457-1297
www.reina-llc.com | 
www.arcticsun-llc.com
[cid:image001.png@01CE5D4A.D935D530]

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[RE-wrenches] BZ Products Charge Controllers

[Nathan Stumpff]

Hello wrenches,

Anyone have any experience with BZ Products charge controllers? Kind of thin 
website (http://bzproducts.net/) but it seems like a pretty slick way to be 
able to use the ubiquitous 60 cell panels in small systems, if the controllers 
are quality.

Any thoughts appreciated.

Thanks,
-Nathan

--
Nathan J. Stumpff
NABCEP Certified PV Installer #091209-175
NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer #032412-14
Project Manager | Arctic Sun, LLC
nat...@arcticsun-llc.com   | (907) 457-1297
www.reina-llc.com | 
www.arcticsun-llc.com
[cid:image001.png@01CE35E2.0BCAE390]

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Combining conductors

[Nathan Stumpff]

Larry,

I don't think the relationship of AWG size to ampacity is a linear curve, so 
while that "rule of thumb" may be pretty good, you can't always count on it. I 
would use the circular area column in NEC Chapter 9, Table 8 for an easy, quick 
way to compare two of one conductor vs. one of another.

Of course there are other code issues regarding parallel conductors...

Cheers,
-Nathan

--
Nathan J. Stumpff
NABCEP Certified PV Installer #091209-175
NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer #032412-14
Project Manager | Arctic Sun, LLC
nat...@arcticsun-llc.com   | (907) 457-1297
www.reina-llc.com | 
www.arcticsun-llc.com
[cid:image001.png@01CE3115.44031510]

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Larry Crutcher, 
Starlight Solar Power Systems
Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2013 8:51 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Combining conductors

Wrenches,

Here's a tough one for me to understand. I am installing 2 volt AGM batteries. 
There are two terminals for each battery polarity. I have some height limits so 
I need to use the minimum wire size. Here's my question: If I combine two 
identical conductors, what is the equivalent single conductor size?

I found one "rule of thumb" that says doubling like conductors creates a AWG 
decrease of 3. Example: two #2 will be equivalent to 2/0. Is this true?

Thank you,

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems






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[RE-wrenches] 1000 Vdc

[Nathan Stumpff]

Wrenches,

This is an offshoot in a way to the Cable Tray discussion, but until there are 
Brits running my permit office...

I am considering pitching a 1,000 Vdc system to my AHJ, and it seems like the 
solar components (modules, inverters, combiners, array wire) are the easy part 
in a lot of ways.

We use Cerro XHHW-2 for basically all of our wiring outside of an array, and it 
is clearly marked 600 V. Does anyone have a good resource for wire, conduit, 
fittings, junction boxes, etc. that carries a 1000 Vdc rating? Does anyone know 
of a 1,000 Vdc rated PV Wire that can be run in conduit in a building?

Any info appreciated, thanks,
-Nathan

--
Nathan J. Stumpff
NABCEP Certified PV Installer #091209-175
NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer #032412-14
Project Manager | Arctic Sun, LLC
nat...@arcticsun-llc.com   | (907) 457-1297
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[RE-wrenches] AFCI

[Nathan Stumpff]

Wrenches,

Are there other string inverters currently in production and available with 
working AFCI besides SMA? It seems like I would have gotten a hundred emails if 
there was, but maybe some company with a little smaller profile?

Nothing against SMA of course, but their relatively narrow operating voltage 
window makes design tough in many cases in my climate...

Many thanks,
-Nathan

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NABCEP Certified PV Installer #091209-175
NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer #032412-14
Project Manager | Arctic Sun, LLC
nat...@arcticsun-llc.com   | (907) 457-1297
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 14 inch aluminum standoffs?

[Nathan Stumpff]

Andrew,

QuickMount PV has been amenable to building custom standoffs. They would be 
crazy expensive if you only needed a few but for a big job or multiple 
projects, they might be an option for you.

Also, for using galvanized rail you may want to check out Cooper B-Line's solar 
products. Their clamp system, coupled with the WEEB-WMC is ETL listed to UL 
467. Though their published documentation isn't quite as clear, the guys you 
get on the phone say this is true with both their aluminum and galvanized steel 
channel. They also have told me they are working on UL 1703/2703 approval for 
their complete system. It was over a year ago when I talked to them.

I have used a ton of their clamps. With certain modules they're wicked, my 
favorite clamps out there, beefy 5/16" hardware, they come pre-anti-seized, 
really nice units. With other modules the clamp seems to pull on the frame in 
just the wrong way, makes you a little nervous.

Cheers,
-Nathan

--
Nathan J. Stumpff - Arctic Sun, LLC
NABCEP Certified PV Installer #091209-175
NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer #032412-14
nat...@arcticsun-llc.com
Office: 907/457-1297
http://www.facebook.com/ArcticSunLLC


From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Solar Energy 
Solutions
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 12:52 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] 14 inch aluminum standoffs?

Dear All,

While not participating much in the dialog  I greatly appreciate your time and 
knowledge on matters of the Sun.

My question is two fold.  Are folks using galvanized or hot dipped galvanized 
in any way, shape or form out there for their mounting systems?  I feel like I 
need to know this as we only use aluminum because our climate is so wet.  Yet 
we are in a situation where using galvanized might be the best and only 
options, although we am not seeing anything with galvanized that is readily out 
there either.

Fold Two:  Does anyone know of a source for 'standoffs' that are greater than 
7"s but less than say 20"?

Sincerely,


Andrew Koyaanisqatsi
President
Solar Energy Solutions, Inc.
Since 1987,
Moving Portland and Beyond
to an Environmentally Sustainable Future.
503-238-4502
http://www.solarenergyoregon.com/

"Better one's House too little one day
than too big all the Year after."

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[RE-wrenches] Water tank for dump load

[Nathan Stumpff]

Wrenches,

I am designing a system with a  sizable diversion load and am looking for the 
smallest water tank I can get with four ports for elements. I will be supplying 
my own elements and need four 1" bungs. I am definitely trying to avoid a 
large, expensive solar thermal tank, but that is all I have found so far. The 
tank can be very small because I will be circulating between it and a much 
larger storage tank. 20 gallons would be ideal.

Anyone have a tip on a cheap, small tank with 4 ports?

Thanks!
-Nathan


--
Nathan J. Stumpff - Arctic Sun, LLC
NABCEP Certified PV Installer #091209-175
NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer #032412-14
nat...@arcticsun-llc.com
Office: 907/457-1297
http://www.facebook.com/ArcticSunLLC


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[RE-wrenches] AC (only) Diversion

[Nathan Stumpff]

Wrenches,

We are working on the design for a system where we will be using grid-tied wind 
and solar but will not be able to net-meter the project (we can interconnect 
but the meter only runs one way.) Anything we use on site is worth 100%, any 
production that goes back to the grid is lost forever to the customer. What we 
would like to do is monitor all solar and wind production, monitor all usage, 
and then be able to dump every watt-hour of over production as heat, there is 
plenty of (thermal) storage capacity.

If this were a battery based system I know how I would approach this and what 
equipment I would spec, but so far I am having a hard time coming up with a  
solution. Anyone have any suggestions for products or strategies in this case? 
Something like an eGauge with programmable PWM relay outputs?

Any thoughts or suggestions are most appreciated,
-Nathan


--
Nathan J. Stumpff - Arctic Sun, LLC
NABCEP Certified PV Installer #091209-175
NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer #032412-14
nat...@arcticsun-llc.com
Office: 907/457-1297
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[RE-wrenches] Booster pump

[Nathan Stumpff]

Thermal wrenches,

When plumbing a booster pump in series for a solar drainback system, should the 
booster pump go ahead of or behind the main circulator?

Cheers,
-Nathan

--
Nathan J. Stumpff - Arctic Sun, LLC
NABCEP Certified PV Installer #091209-175
NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer #032412-14
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Thermal storage water stabilizer

[Nathan Stumpff]

Thanks for the responses, all.

Matt, I am coming up short with an internet search for 'Seltrol 112' and 
'Seltrol 112 inhibitor.' Do you have a data sheet and/or a lead where to buy it 
and find out more?

Thanks,
-Nathan

--
Nathan J. Stumpff - Arctic Sun, LLC
NABCEP Certified PV Installer #091209-175
NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer #032412-14
nat...@arcticsun-llc.com
Office: 907/457-1297

-Original Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of 
m...@solar-energy-solutions.com
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 5:35 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Thermal storage water stabilizer

We have used Seltrol 112 as an inhibitor in large unpressurized drainback 
systems based on a recommendation from Holocene.

I have previously worked on large unpressurized systems from other installers 
and not seen any issues with their tap water-only systems (though I have seen 
multiple issues with tank corrosion due to incorrect tank material 
specification).

Matt


> Nathan,
>
> We've done a couple of systems with large unpressurized tanks (STSS).
> They work well but there are a couple of things you need to pay 
> attention to.  We use tap water to fill the tank which works fine but 
> you have to make sure the PH of the water is in the correct range.  I 
> can't remember what that is off hand but the STSS manual has a whole 
> section on correct PH and want to add (I think it's baking soda) to 
> correct the PH.  The second tip is make sure all the ports and the lid 
> are properly sealed with calk.  The STSS tanks come with the calk, I'm 
> not sure if other brands include it.  If you don't seal all the 
> openings well when the tank heats up and produces condensation that 
> water will leak out the ports and create a mess and reduce the efficiency of 
> the insulation.
>
> We used to make our own heat exchangers with K soft copper and trex to 
> hold it all together.  That worked well on most systems but we had one
> where the copper eroded where it was in contact with the trex.   We think
> it was due to improper PH of the water in the tank. I'd recommend 
> buying the heat exchangers from the manufacture.
>
> Good luck,
> Will
>
> __
> 
> Will White
> Regional Field Operations Manager - New England
>
> Real Goods Solar
> 64 Main St.
> Montpelier, VT 05602
> Tel: (802) 223-7804
> Cell: (802) 234-3167
> www.realgoodssolar.com<http://www.realgoodssolar.com/>
>
> [Description:
> RGS12_Q2_MYTH_static_signature_1b]<http://realgoodssolar.com/landing/8
> 7_solar_myths.php>
>
>
>
> From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
> [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Nathan 
> Stumpff
> Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 3:03 PM
> To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Thermal storage water stabilizer
>
> Thermal wrenches,
>
> I have a series of upcoming projects involving large (up to 10,000 
> gallon) water storage. They are closed (air-tight) but unpressurized 
> (oversized expansion capability) systems, basically just a mass of 
> water. We move heat in (solar, masonry heater) and out (DHW, space 
> heating) exclusively via heat exchangers, so once we seal up the lid 
> there is no introduction of any new material, including air, until 
> bladder replacement or other maintenance, hopefully a long time off.
>
> Obviously de-ionized water would be the best choice for initial fill, 
> but it is not going to happen. My thought is that with no new source 
> of oxygen, minerals, etc., the small amounts that will be present on 
> fill up can't pose a big problem.
>
> Anyone with experience here? Any ideas or leads for a stabilizer to 
> add on initial fill? What problems am I not seeing?
>
> Many thanks,
> -Nathan
>
> --
> Nathan J. Stumpff - Arctic Sun, LLC
> NABCEP Certified PV Installer #091209-175 NABCEP Certified Solar 
> Heating Installer #032412-14 
> nat...@arcticsun-llc.com<mailto:nat...@arcticsun-llc.com>
> Office: 907/457-1297
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Matthew Partymiller
Solar Energy Solutions LLC
(859

[RE-wrenches] Thermal storage water stabilizer

[Nathan Stumpff]

Thermal wrenches,

I have a series of upcoming projects involving large (up to 10,000 gallon) 
water storage. They are closed (air-tight) but unpressurized (oversized 
expansion capability) systems, basically just a mass of water. We move heat in 
(solar, masonry heater) and out (DHW, space heating) exclusively via heat 
exchangers, so once we seal up the lid there is no introduction of any new 
material, including air, until bladder replacement or other maintenance, 
hopefully a long time off.

Obviously de-ionized water would be the best choice for initial fill, but it is 
not going to happen. My thought is that with no new source of oxygen, minerals, 
etc., the small amounts that will be present on fill up can't pose a big 
problem.

Anyone with experience here? Any ideas or leads for a stabilizer to add on 
initial fill? What problems am I not seeing?

Many thanks,
-Nathan

--
Nathan J. Stumpff - Arctic Sun, LLC
NABCEP Certified PV Installer #091209-175
NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer #032412-14
nat...@arcticsun-llc.com
Office: 907/457-1297
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[RE-wrenches] Very unbalanced DC wiring

[Nathan Stumpff]

Wrenches,

I am doing a job for a customer installing a ground mounted array about 250' 
from his existing battery bank. Array is:

-  Vmp: 87.9 V

-  Imp: 47.1 A

-  Classic 150 controller

The customer already owns (hence the choice of the 150 over the 200 or 250 
controller) sufficient length for the array transmission of a heavy duty direct 
burial rated cable, 3 (total) conductor 3/0 AWG copper. He also happens to own 
sufficient length of #2 AWG USE-2 copper.

My question is: is there a problem (code or practical or both) with using two 
of the 3/0 conductors paralleled for either the positive or negative, and one 
of the 3/0 conductors by itself for the other side? In this case I would use 
the USE-2 as the grounding jumper.

The max voltage drop on the circuit using only single conductor 3/0 over this 
distance (and also accounting for stepping down the conductor size and array 
circuit conductors, etc.) is about 2.5% max, so we could live with this. That 
said, the customer already owns all of this wire and if I can safely shave a 
couple tenths of a percent voltage drop, every bit helps when you are off grid.

It seems to me that using doubled cable on one side only is effectively exactly 
the same as having home run cables (of the same AWG) from a series strings of 
modules where either the positive or the negative is twice as long as the 
other, which happens all the time at the array.

Any thoughts most appreciated!

-Nathan

--
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NABCEP Ceritified PV Installer #091209-175
NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer #032412-14
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[RE-wrenches] Dongle for XW

[Nathan Stumpff]

Wrenches,

Is the 'dongle' used to interface a computer with an XW :

A) a proprietary part from Schneider/Xantrex or

B)  a standard computer part?

If A, any recommended sources for one? If B, any information on what it is, 
what it is called, cheap place to buy one, etc.?

Thanks!
--
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NABCEP Ceritified PV Installer #091209-175
NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer #032412-14
nat...@arcticsun-llc.com
Office: 907/457-1297
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[RE-wrenches] GFP and multiple charge controllers

[Nathan Stumpff]

Wrenches,

In a job coming up I have a customer with an existing FM60 controller,  520 
watt (!!) array. We are doing a ton of work, including adding a 4 kW solar 
array with Classic 150 charge controller. I am trying to figure out how to 
handle the GFP.

For the Classic, I need a 90 or 100 A output breaker minimum. 80 A is not an 
option. The OutBack dual GFP is 80 A, and so it not an option.

Is there a 100 A GFP breaker assembly I have just never seen? Is there a way to 
use the Classic's GFP to run an external relay via AUX (to trip the FM60 output 
breaker at the same time)? Any ideas?

Thanks,
-Nathan

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nat...@arcticsun-llc.com
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[RE-wrenches] MC4 Y Connectors

[Nathan Stumpff]

Wrenches,

I don't believe this is a correct use. As was already pointed out, the correct 
size fuse for those two paralleled strings (assuming 60 cell, 230 or so watt 
module) would likely be 30 A:

Isc = 8.2
82 A * 2 * 1.56 = 25.6 A = 30 A fuse

The max series fuse rating of the module is most likely 15 A. In the setup 
described below, the remaining four combined strings could certainly feed a 
fault at above the rating of the panel (15 A) but below the trip rating of the 
30 A fuse.

These Y type connectors are only good when there are 2 parallel strings TOTAL, 
or possibly three for certain SunPower or other modules as was pointed out.

Cheers,
-Nathan

>penobscotsolar at midmaine.com penobscotsolar at midmaine.com 
>
>Fri Mar 9 11:23:45 PST 2012
>

>My whole point is that this method is only good when you are paralleling

>two strings, per breaker/fuse, no more. The "Y's" only combine two

>strings. That allows an installer to cut in half the amount of

>fusible/breakered strings in an installation. If you have 10 strings of

>three panels you can parallel two sets of three panel strings five times.

>This is an efficient design approach saving both installer time and the

>customer money while fully protecting the system. It also makes wire

>management much more aesthetically pleasing.

>

>Daryl


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