Re: [RE-wrenches] combiner bus bar for Sunny Tower DC input?
You will need a fuse for each inverter for the same reason you would need a fuse for 4 PV strings. Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On Behalf Of Glenn Burt Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 7:57 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] combiner bus bar for Sunny Tower DC input? Are you sure you need to split them? IIR, there are only a pair of conductors going from each SB into the tower. They must be combined on the SMA side of the touch-safe fuse holders in some way. We opted to run all our source circuits from array through 6 external discos then into the ST instead of combining them - the distance in our case was around 150'. -Glenn From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Kirk Herander Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 8:10 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] combiner bus bar for Sunny Tower DC input? But I don't believe the Sunny Tower internally has single conductor lugs leading to the respective SB it's wired to. The DC tower input/output to each respective inverter is effectively a combiner box which combines all fused inputs to a single positive prewired to the respective SB inverter. I have already combined the strings in an external box and need to uncombine them through the individual fused strings in the SunnyTower. Kirk Herander VT Solar, LLC dba Vermont Solar Engineering NABCEPTM Certified installer Charter Member NYSERDA-eligible Installer VT RE Incentive Program Partner From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Brian Teitelbaum Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 8:28 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] combiner bus bar for Sunny Tower DC input? Hi Kirk, The Sunny Boy inverters also have a pair of lugs for a single conductor pair coming in from the array. They are meant to be used if you have an external combiner. No bus bars as you describe are needed. Brian Teitelbaum AEE Solar From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Kirk Herander Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 2:57 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] combiner bus bar for Sunny Tower DC input? Hello, The Sunny Tower has four individual fuse holders on the DC input of each inverter. I am combining the array output for each inverter in a combiner box before the tower, so there is only a single positive, negative, and gnd going to each inverter's DC input. I want to fan this input out to each of the four dc fuses via a combiner bus with a single lug and prongs which fit directly into each fuseholders' input, ala the Outback combiner bus. Is there something similar made for the SunnyTower dc input? I have not been able to talk to SMA yet about this. Thanks. Kirk Herander VT Solar, LLC dba Vermont Solar Engineering NABCEPTM Certified installer Charter Member NYSERDA-eligible Installer VT RE Incentive Program Partner attachment: North Texas Renewable Energy Inc.vcf___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] SMA micro
Anyone been able to lay their hands on a preliminary spec sheet for the new SMA micro inverter? Last Monday at the 2011 Texas Renewables annual meeting for TREIA.org, Elie Nasr, SMA Dir of business development, was asked when the SMA micros are coming to the US market. His reply was that they are not coming any time soon. What that means is open for interpritation. Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer No.031310-57 TECL 27398 nt...@1scom.net 817.917.0527 www.ntrei.com attachment: North Texas Renewable Energy Inc.vcf___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Connector mix matching
Wrenches I was ready to order Enphase 215s with the MC4 connectors when I was told by the distributor that these micros with the MC4 was for the Ontario FIT and more expensive so I should go with the Anphenol H4 connectors on the US version. I was leary of using different brands ever since I read the Photon article mentioning that Multi Connect would not honor warranties on their connectors if used with anyone elses connectors. It also would be a UL violation since connectors aren't rated to interchange So I went to the shop and got a Enphase 190 with H4s and a Yingli 230 with MC4s. Both items are brand new spare parts but to my surprise would not even plug together. The MC male would fit into the H4 female but not the opposite. Looking closer I find that the O-ring on the H4 is about .010 larger in diameter which will clearly never allow it to fit together unless you remove the O-ring. Enphase says nothing in their install documents about not connecting with other brands so I guess they don't recommend it? I don't want to open a can of worms but I want to know what works and what doesn't. thanks as always Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer No.031310-57 TECL 27398 nt...@1scom.net 817.917.0527 www.ntrei.com attachment: North Texas Renewable Energy Inc.vcf___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] RE; ARCO Solar and Carrizo Plain
ARCO built the place in the early 80s because of the late 70s energy crisis... *** The response to the '70s energy crisis, though it was about oil, included the formation of PURPA: The Public Utility Regulatory Policies Act (PURPA) is a law, passed in 1978 by the United States Congress as part of the National Energy Act. It is meant to promote greater use of domestic renewable energy. The law forced regulated, natural monopoly electric utilities to buy power from other more efficient producers, if that cost was less than the utility's own avoided cost rate to the consumer; the avoided cost rate was the additional costs that the electric utility would incur if it generated the required power itself, or if available, could purchase its demand requirements from another source. At the time generally, where demand was growing, this was considered to be the construction and fossil fuel costs incurred in the operation of another thermal power plant. This free market approach presented investment opportunity and government encouragement [$$$] for more development of environment-friendly, renewable energy projects and technologies; the law created a market in which non-utility Independent Power Producers developed, and some energy market players failed. http://www.ask.com/wiki/Public_Utility_Regulatory_Policies_Act So when the govt funds ran out [the utilities didn't do this out of the goodness of their hearts] the big RE displays were dismantled and it was back to business as usual. The lesson learned by the utilities was that, with a significantly lower cost, RE could be profitable. We have witnessed this around the world thx first to the wind industry and now to China for the collapse of the PV market. The key to the weak success of the PV industry was largely due to the definition of avoided cost which only includes the cost in dollars to generate the electricity. The definition clearly avoids references to any other secondary financial benefits like no emissions from burning dirty stuff to generate electric power. I recall a recent California legislative battle to redefine avoided cost to include something to do with geothermal [?] where the utilities lost the battle but the final outcome is still up in the air. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] MC Amphenol
Wrenches I was just about to order a pallet of Yingli 255 modules and noticed the spec sheet calls out Amphenol H3 connectors. I looked at the spare 230W module in the shop from a July install and, just as I remembered, it had MC connectors. So I looked at the latest 230W module spec sheet and it too had been changed to Amphenol. All Yingly mods apparently now come only with PV wire Amphenolconnectors. I know the article in the recent Photon comparison of connectors pointed out that though many different brands would interchange, snap together and hold fast, that they should not be trusted to create a low impedance connection nor be watertight just because they fit. The article went on to say that connector mfgrs have resisted creating a standard for their industry. I can't say that I blame them but it sure gives us another potential glitch to avoid. Just a note, at SPI I came across a display of crimpers for different brands of PV lead connectors. There were well over a dozen different varieties of expensive looking hand tools on display. While I didn't look closely at them all I could easily see that Tyco MC were clearly different and probably not interchangable. Others looked similar but a difference of only a few thousandths of an inch can spoil your day when discovering that A doesn't fit into B like it should. Something else to be pissed at the PV industry about. Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer No.031310-57 TECL 27398 nt...@1scom.net 817.917.0527 www.ntrei.com attachment: North Texas Renewable Energy Inc.vcf___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] ARRA compliant PV
Wrenches I got a call from a customer today whose tax preparer wants proof of ARRA compliance for the modules we installed. The Evergreen www site, now largely German in content, doesn't have a link to such an unnecessary document. The mod spec sheet has a US flag and the old Mass. address but it may not be legal enough. Does anyone have a copy of that compliance sheet or know where they are available online? Thanks as always Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer No.031310-57 TECL 27398 nt...@1scom.net 817.917.0527 www.ntrei.com attachment: North Texas Renewable Energy Inc.vcf___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Solar gathering?
With all due respect to your experience in California Joel, total installations is not a very accurate indicator of ability in todays PV industry imho. A good start is how many years have you been in the business, really in the business. This does not include the PV pump in your koi pond but real verifiable, green-tagged installs. 20+ year electrical contractors with a half-dozen installs don't count either. NABCEP certification is another excellent filter but several ECs around here simply hired a NABCEP cert to be able to fly the logo. I have sat through Bill Brooks classes almost as many times as John Wiles classes. Just spent 8 hours in a James Stallcup Sr. class in Austin Friday and had lunch Saturday with the 25 year Exec. Dir. of treia.org. My www site doesn't emphasize the number of installs but it does show a list of training classes, and conferences etc I have attended over the last 18 years. I won't go into the politics of why Texas is a decade behind the leading edge of PV in the US but I probably don't have to when you consider our political situation here. And our working with TREIA at the state capitol for the last 6 years greasing the skids in favor of pro-RE legislation gives a whole new perspective on those politics. There's a reason SEIA SEPA brought SPI to Dallas. And since you mentioned it, I don't know how many Wrenches will be at SPI in Dallas but be sure to check out the pulled pork sandwiches and first-drink-free meetup at Poor Davids Pub on the 19th from 6-9. It's sponsored by the Texas Solar Energy Society and it's just a couple of blocks from the big show. We'll be looking for NABCEP shirts. Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer No.031310-57 TECL 27398 nt...@1scom.net 817.917.0527 www.ntrei.com Dear Jesse, 1. Go to the Dallas solar exhibition and spend a lot of time on the floor talking to real engineers with field experience (not salespeople). First question to ask is How many PV systems have you installed? Anyone with less than 50 systems under their belt is either reading from the book or still in training. 2. Attend a Bill Brooks training session. Bill has strong opinions that some wrenches disagree with but has seen more PV installations than over 99% of the people on Earth and has spend decades thinking about what is good and bad PV. 3. Meet with and walk the exhibit floor with and talk shop day and night with as many wrenches as you can (at least 3 a day). 4. Go to the exhibits all the time they are open and keep your ears open. Wrenching is parts and the people who put parts together. Only go to sessions and workshops when the exhibits are closed. 5. Don't become a true believer in any one part or one way to put parts together. There are many good and bad parts and techniques. The quest is finding something better. Have fun. Joel Davidson Not all change is for the better, but nothing gets better without change. attachment: North Texas Renewable Energy Inc.vcf___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] What's the right action?
OK you have been dollars ahead ever since you put the batteries back into inventory. So sell him his batteries at the cost he paid you, charge the $20 core charge and you still come out ahead. Unless you had a big battery sale on account of your good fortune, you're still dollars ahead in 2011. You can't buy good will from customers but its value is still always worth having. This is why the IRS won't let you count it as an asset. my 2c Jim Duncan On Oct 6, 2011, at 3:32 AM, Allan Sindelar wrote: OK, here's one way off the beaten path. I live in an historic offgrid rural neighborhood of eccentrics. Makes for quite rewarding life and work. In 2003 a neighbor came to me for a system. His budget was $6K and needs were modest. He didn't want installation, would install it himself. We built a system on a plywood panel with DR2424 and XP250, DC175, SunSaver, Tri-Met, with all proper disconnects, prewired with connection points labeled. Array was two SX150s on a pole-top rack, and it used eight golf carts; a good budget system for that time. Phil Undercuffler (of Outback now) did the work well. The neighbor was pleased with the result and took the system home with him except for the batteries. Paid in full, check was good (as they virtually always are). He never came back for the batteries. We saw each other periodically, and after once or twice I stopped asking about them, figured he had his reasons. Golf carts are the only batteries we routinely stock, and his were eventually rotated back into stock to keep it fresh, so no special-order loss there. Last week we passed on our road and he stopped me to ask for the dimensions for the battery box he was about to build, and said he'd be in touch to get the batteries. In 2003 golf carts were $75 and cores kept the beer fund stocked in good weather. Today they're $150 exchange, with a $20 core value. So I'm posting to get preemptive guidance when he comes for his batteries. It seems the most straightforward approach is to simply tell him the current cost of the batteries and offer to apply the $600 he paid in 2003 toward the current cost for eight without core exchange. He won't be expecting to fork out an extra $760. I'd like to keep him satisfied, and can see at least eight different ways to approach this, all justifiable and none ideal. Has this ever happened to you? What would you do, that's fair, equitable, and is likely to keep a reasonable customer happy? I'll post what eventually happens when it's done. Of course, that could be another eight years. Thanks, Allan -- Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] mixing aluminum and galvanized steel
Since your'e embedding galvanized anchors in concrete remember that corrsion of the zink content in the hot dipped galv plating is worse the higher the pH of the concrete during the curing process. Very high pH in wet cement is normal. If this is a large job you might want to check with the concrete provider about additives to the mud that will reduce the effect. Since the reaction is between the surface of the galv and the concrete microscopic spaces may form causing an entry point for water that will make things worse over time. Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer No.031310-57 TECL 27398 nt...@1scom.net 817.917.0527 www.ntrei.com This is an amazingly timely post for me! I was just thinking of asking the same question since i have a couple of ground mount installs coming up with concrete pillars/galvanized anchor bolts/aluminum channel base. I notice that DPW for example specs galvanized pipes to be attached with u-bolts to their aluminum racking in their LGM racks. Anxiously awaiting the collective wisdom... attachment: North Texas Renewable Energy Inc.vcf___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Leaving metal roofs?
Both SolaDeck or a weatherhead will work, I've used both. But if the array is mounted to S5! clamps the roof owner may not want any penetrations. But then they will have to deal with an unsightly conduit running across the roof around the eave. Jim Duncan -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On Behalf Of Jesse Dahl Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2011 5:11 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Leaving metal roofs? All, What have people found to be the best way to get PV conductors off a metal roof? The last one I worked on I entered the building through the wall using LB's. Jesse Sent from my iPhone ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Designing PV systems for lightning prone areas
James It's hard to beat buried copper. At an array of 4-14 foot high trackers we installed in 2005 we buried over 700 feet of bare copper in the same trenches, a foot above the conduit runs. The ground was limestone so driven rods were out of the question. There was also a Ufer ground to each 8 foot pier. The site received a direct lightning strike to a 24 ft weather station mast only 100 feet from the nearest tracker. The arc jumped to a steel well casing another 100 feet the opposite direction from the trackers. I'm convinced the lightning never saw the trackers due to their low impedance to earth. The steel casing didn't hurt either but the trackers were a much bigger target. Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer No.031310-57 TECL 27398 nt...@1scom.net 817.917.0527 www.ntrei.com Dear Wrenches, Does anybody have any best practices for designing large PV arrays on metal building in lightning prone areas? Lightning arrestors on the DC side and Surge suppressors on the AC load side? Any input or resources would be greatly appreciated. Sunny Regards, James Rudolph NABCEP Certified Installer Master Electrician SF Energy ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org attachment: North Texas Renewable Energy Inc.vcf___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] roof types
What's your budget look like? Obviously standing seam metal is superior to everything else. 3tab asphalt is not only a petro product but its texture traps water and a lot never runs off to be collected. Wood shake too will absorb water and is a good place for microscopic moss other thingies to grow. Treated wood leaches out its chemicals over the years and those go right into your storage tank. We built with SS metal then didn't have enough money left for the big 10k storage tank so for now the downspouts just water the grass. Have a plan B ready we learned. Jim Duncan -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On Behalf Of Marco Mangelsdorf Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 11:25 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: [RE-wrenches] roof types A bit off of the solar subject. Any recommendations for a new roof that would be an acceptable means for collecting drinking water? Thanks, marco ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] mechanical vs. electronic kwh meter
People have been backfeeding thru their meters long before UL1749 came along. The meter mfgr probably has the standards that their design meets, including UL, NEMA etc that will put any complaints to rest. Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer No.031310-57 TECL 27398 On 2011/8/12 9:45, Kirk Herander wrote: Hello, I am now in a debate with the metering dept. of a local utility. They don’t want a PV system to be energized and tested until a bidirectional electronic meter is installed. They insist that an old plain Jane mechanical meter can be damaged and is a safety concern if power is pushed through it (its running backwards) to the grid. I have never heard of, witnessed, or been told this by any utility or AHJ inspector until now. Have any of you ever? I don’t know the reason for their paranoia. I assume that many utility districts don’t to this day install bidirectional electronic meters. And rely on the original mechanical meter to count backwards reliably and safely. Kirk Herander VT Solar, LLC dba Vermont Solar Engineering NABCEP^TM Certified installer Charter Member NYSERDA-eligible Installer VT RE Incentive Program Partner ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org attachment: North Texas Renewable Energy Inc.vcf___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Tracstar Linear Tracker
While the cost of PV has been driven down by worldwide demand for mW scale installations, that lower cost benefit flows down to small installation too. And the same is true with trackers. Huge increases in demand have driven competition which has brought manufacturing costs down, which in return, has forced more efficent design and manufacturing process in order to remain competitive. Especially true in the Euro market is the fact that many mWs of PV installs are on trackers. One primary reason is the increased power gained by moving further north away from the equator, a subtle but very real available gain in daily insolation we in southern climates don't share the benefit from. It's to a point that, in utility scale tracker installs at least, the too-high price of the land for the array is more likely to be a deal-breaker than the cost of the PV. While the $/W still follows the economy-of-scale curve the PV prices are less a factor than previously observed. Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer No.031310-57 TECL 27398 nt...@1scom.net 817.917.0527 www.ntrei.com -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On Behalf Of Jeff Oldham Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2011 3:39 PM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Tracstar Linear Tracker Tracstar is as good as any of them, however I would not track this array unless it is dedicated to a pumping load or MAYBE grid tie on a PBI. My issue is that PV is too cheap now to do much in the way of justification for the added expense and reliability issues. We are so lucky to have energy systems that can produce power with no moving parts and have an extremely long life that I just cannot see intentionally adding complex and expensive moving parts to undo this elegance. Closely look at your math and see just how close the economics are considering PV can be retailed for likely under $2.20/W. Lastly and perhaps most importantly, you should consider tracker service life. With modules lasting 50+ years you surely will have to replace the tracker well before the array, if not twice or more. Personally, I think trackers lasting more than 15-20 years w/o significant servicing is not realistic. Not much in the solar world more aggravating then seeing the sun shining on the BACK of your array at almost noon! It seems that we spend a lot of time trying to talk customers out of sexy notions like trackers, battery back-up grid tied systems and wind where there is little. I think trackers can have their place, but not many! And this is coming from a guy w/a tracker for 20 years and I refuse to remove it,I just keep rebuilding it (they are indeed very cool when working). All expansions have been fixed mounted. From the Solar, Wind and Hydro powered office of Jeff Oldham/Regenerative SOLutions Penny Stock Jumping 3000% Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today! AwesomePennyStocks.com attachment: North Texas Renewable Energy Inc.vcf___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] pole mounts
Concrete, even when it's cured enough to be hard is still very high in water content. Concrete exposed to open air won't cure/dry completely for decades. This is why the NEC now recognizes the Ufer ground for the low impedance connection that it offers for grounding properties. Unfortunately the high moisture content in cured concrete inside a pipe will corrode just as much as it will an unprotected Ufer ground rod embeded in concrete. I have also seen heavy condensation on the outside of 8 tracker pipes in cooler temperatures until it warms above the dew point. Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer No.031310-57 TECL 27398 nt...@1scom.net 817.917.0527 www.ntrei.com -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On Behalf Of toddc...@finestplanet.com Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 1:50 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] pole mounts Wrenches, Fact or fiction: Adding concrete to the inside of a pole mount pipe makes it stronger. Thanks, Todd Sent from Finest Planet WebMail. attachment: North Texas Renewable Energy Inc.vcf___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Module Racking Attachment to SIP Roof
Seems as though a motivated Architect could order custom SIP panels with dimensioned lumber ribs attached on the inside surface of the exterior roof panel. It would allow for NS rows of attachments without puncturing the envelope. We priced SIP construction years ago and found that mfgrs can build virtually any wall or roof panel configuration the design requires. All it takes is more money. That's why we ended up with 2x6 with spray foam shell. Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer No.031310-57 TECL 27398 nt...@1scom.net 817.917.0527 www.ntrei.com -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On Behalf Of R Ray Walters Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 1:49 PM To: g...@icarussolarservices.com; RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Module Racking Attachment to SIP Roof One problem that came up on a project recently, is that your penetrations (as proposed in your solution below) will essentially ruin the thermal performance of the SIPs system. The whole point of the SIPs system is that there are no thermal short circuits such as framing members that allow heat to be transmitted around all that insulation. The project I was referring to was with NREL, and a smart engineer caught it, and forced the PV contractor to mount in a way without penetrations. I also work with very savvy architects that are now specifying minimal penetrations through the thermal envelope. I'd suggest a standing seam roof, with S5 clamps. Ask the roofer to use extra attachment screws, if you're worried. R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer One solution could be a product that had a bolt-plate on the bottom of the SIP, that penetrates the SIP with long 5/16 threaded bolt(s), and then attaching to the PV mount at the top of the SIP. The UniRac SolarMount steel flat-top mount has four 5/16 bolt-holes and might be a good choice. This method should have no problem achieving the required pull-out resistance. Any suggestions, installation experience, on how to put PV on a SIP roof? -- Regards, Gary Willett, PE attachment: North Texas Renewable Energy Inc.vcf___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] OSHA Certification?
I looked into OSHA certification several years ago through a local community college. The class was, I believe $1,200.00 with a maximum of maybe 10-12 attendees. There was also the 30 hour class available; usually all classes are thru 3rd party orgs like the CC district. The course is taught by an OSHA person though if they have to furnish the classroom the cost is higher. Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer No.031310-57 TECL 27398 nt...@1scom.net 817.917.0527 www.ntrei.com -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On Behalf Of Gary Willett Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 5:09 PM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] OSHA Certification? Ray: The 10-hour OSHA course is not (currently) a requirement for NABCEP's PV Installer certification. However, the NABCEP PV Technical Sales certification does require the 10 hour OSHA course as part of the application requirements. The UL Certified PV System Installer application requires proof of having attended the OSHA 30 Hour For Construction safety training course. The requirement for the 10-hour OSHA course for solar PV installers could be a state licensing requirement, particularly those that have a separate solar PV license. Regards, Gary Willett, PE g...@icarussolarservices.com On 7/14/2011 12:54 PM, Ray Walters wrote: HI All; I just received an email from a company offering OSHA training for solar installers. A good idea, but they claimed you need a 10 hr certification just to work as a solar installer. I have never heard of this, so did I install a couple of hundred systems illegally? Here's a quote from the email: Photovoltaic work includes working at heights and with electricity. Due to the nature of the work, a minimum of an OSHA 10-Hr certification is required to be employed in the field of photovoltaics. This is either: A) a scam trying to scare me into signing up for their class B) a new requirement I wasn't aware of C) a long standing requirement not being enforced Fill me in oh wise ones, Ray Walters Solarray, Inc. Denver, CO ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org attachment: North Texas Renewable Energy Inc.vcf___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] National grid hertz adjustment
This article in the local paper sounds a little like potential trouble for grid connected inverters. I looked around on the NERC www site without finding the report mentioned. Any other wrenches seen anything about this experiment? Jim Duncan By Seth Borenstein The Associated Press WASHINGTON -- A yearlong experiment with the nation's electric grid could mess up traffic lights, security systems and some computers -- and make plug-in clocks and appliances like programmable coffee makers run up to 20 minutes fast. A lot of people are going to have things break, and they're not going to know why, said Demetrios Matsakis, head of the time service department at the U.S. Naval Observatory, one of two official timekeeping agencies in the federal government. Since 1930, electric clocks have kept time based on the rate of the electrical current that powers them. If the current slips off its usual rate, clocks run a little fast or slow. Power companies now take steps to correct it, keeping the frequency of the current as precise as possible. The North American Electric Reliability Corp., which oversees the U.S. power grid, is proposing an experiment that would allow more frequency variation without corrections, according to a June 14 company presentation obtained by The Associated Press. The test is tentatively set to start in mid-July. Tweaking the power grid's frequency is expensive and takes a lot of effort, said Joe McClelland, head of electric reliability for the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission. Is anyone using the grid to keep track of time? McClelland said. Let's see if anyone complains if we eliminate it. No one is quite sure what will be affected. This won't change the clocks in cellphones, GPS or even on computers. But wall clocks and those on ovens and coffee makers -- anything that flashes 12:00 when it loses power -- may be a bit off every second, and that error can grow with time. VCRs or DVRs that get their time from cable systems or the Internet probably won't be affected, but those with clocks tied to the electric current will be off a bit, Matsakis said. According to the June presentation, East Coast clocks may run up to 20 minutes fast over a year, but West Coast clocks are only likely to be off by eight minutes. In Texas, it's only an expected speedup of two minutes. Read more: http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/06/24/3178359/test-of-electric-grid-could- be.html#ixzz1QOzHwezw ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] SolarWorld Poly
The PPSI [Photon Photovoltaic Stock Index] in the magazines most recent issue shows that the stock value of SolarWorld AG has dropped 51.6% since Jan. 1, 2010. I'm sure this has something to do with the modules 'makeover'. http://www.photon-magazine.com/ Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On Behalf Of William Miller Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 8:18 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SolarWorld Poly Friends: I got my hands on the first of the new poly modules today. I understood that the new framing would be present on the new mono and poly modules. They are called the plus series. The new frames present some problems. There is no place for an Acme clip and no provision for back mount clips. We have been using the Acme clips as really the only listed, non-plastic, commercially available cable routing device on the market. Now that these don't work, we spent the day figuring out an alternative technique for routing PV cables. I think we came up with a pretty good solution that works with the DPW P6 rail and Enphase components that appear to be our new norm. The glass on these modules looks cheap. It is reflective and not flat. The frames look and feel flimsy. It used to be the American made meant quality but I'm not so sure any more. I spoke with my vendor and he said that complaints have been rolling in about the lack of a flange and the frame will be modified to include a flange. No idea how soon. Sincerely, William Miller attachment: North Texas Renewable Energy Inc.vcf___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] inverter waveform for LED lighting
Wrenches braintrust, I'm working up a bid for a battery/inverter powered series of T8 style LED 4 foot lamp tubes. They use no starter or ballast but the effect from the inverter waveform is what I'm in the dark about. I have a feeling that any modified square wave might wreak havoc on the LED circuitry but it's all new to me. Any experience from fried LEDs to success stories would be appreciated. I'll probably end up specing an Exeltech XP inverter since they come in a wide range of Wattage. thanks as always... Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer No.031310-57 TECL 27398 nt...@1scom.net 817.917.0527 www.ntrei.com attachment: North Texas Renewable Energy Inc.vcf___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Hydrometer source
http://www.rwctesting.com/engine.htm RWC carries refractometer type hydrometers that are much more accurate and easy to read. SG reads 1 .100 to 1.400 in 0.01 increments, temp compensation is automatic, F or C scale. Doesn't need to be flushed out after each use to remain accurate and best of all, it's not made of glass. Cheap? No but neither are good batteries. Jim Duncan We used to buy temperature compensated hydrometers from AEE to include with the sale of a battery bank for off grid customers. My sales person says AEE is no longer carrying that item. I believe they were made by Dekka. Recommendations for a new source for battery hydrometers in the $8 to $ 15 range? David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 23 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Perimeter warning lines
The Texas Dept. of Licensing Regulation [the state electrical, plumbing etc licensing authority] has a well known practice of visiting 'random' cities permitting departments and requesting a list of current permits. They then make un-announced site visits to see if a ME is at the site plus look around for other violations or no-nos. I'm sure OSHA, EPA and numerous other regulatory agencies do the same. My policy is to give the appearance of being as in compliance as possible from the ground to give a good impression. Maybe it'll be so hot the inspector won't want to get out of the car for a walkaround. Jim Duncan -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On Behalf Of William Dorsett Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 2:27 PM To: glenn.b...@glbcc.com; 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Perimeter warning lines Is there a system size at which these OSHA requirements don't apply? Or does an installer try to fly under the radar on residential systems? It seems to me this would be a sizable cost factor that would favor small distributed systems over large commercial projects. A friend contracting the paint on a large apartment complex was asked by the inspector if he had given his workers a sheet warning them not to eat the caulk..yummy, burp. Bill Dorsett Sunwrights Manhattan, KS From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Glenn Burt Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 5:21 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Perimeter warning lines Be sure to investigate this fully. OSHA began requiring us to install warning lines 15' from the building edges recently. up from the 6' of days of yore. Quite a shock to price fall protection carts and fall restraint systems as well! Carts to protect persons installing fall restraint systems so work can begin. Carts for those working within 15' of a building edge. -Glenn Burt From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of North Texas Renewable Energy Inc Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 12:57 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Perimeter warning lines OSHA compliant Wrenches we're about to begin aPV installation along the lower edge of a 100 foot long metal building. Because of skylights down the middle of the length of the E-W roof we are forced to mount the southern-most row only about 5 feet from the 20 foot high eave. Fortunately the slope is less than 10 degrees but perimeter warning lines are a must here. Not wanting to appear a cheapskate here but I'm not surprised at the outrageous cost of OSHA compliant perimeter warning flag systems. Your basic fold up standards with nothing more than light-weight bases and multi-colored banner rope runs hundreds of dollars. Even sandbags for ballast are way overpriced. So where are the affordable units available or is there such a thing? Better yet, has someone fabricated their own pro-looking standards and used the same off-the-shelf banner rope used in the roofing catalogs? I already have several hundred feet of banner rope just nothing to hang it from. thanks as always Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer No.031310-57 TECL 27398 nt...@1scom.net 817.917.0527 www.ntrei.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Perimeter warning lines
OSHA compliant Wrenches we're about to begin aPV installation along the lower edge of a 100 foot long metal building. Because of skylights down the middle of the length of the E-W roof we are forced to mount the southern-most row only about 5 feet from the 20 foot high eave. Fortunately the slope is less than 10 degrees but perimeter warning lines are a must here. Not wanting to appear a cheapskate here but I'm not surprised at the outrageous cost of OSHA compliant perimeter warning flag systems. Your basic fold up standards with nothing more than light-weight bases and multi-colored banner rope runs hundreds of dollars. Even sandbags for ballast are way overpriced. So where are the affordable units available or is there such a thing? Better yet, has someone fabricated their own pro-looking standards and used the same off-the-shelf banner rope used in the roofing catalogs? I already have several hundred feet of banner rope just nothing to hang it from. thanks as always Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer No.031310-57 TECL 27398 nt...@1scom.net 817.917.0527 www.ntrei.com attachment: North Texas Renewable Energy Inc.vcf___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Analysis of NEC Code Changes 2011
Thomas Betts has published an online Analysis of NEC Code Changes 2011 in pdf format that's available free to download from their www site. The new code language is given along with an analysis of change and pictures of qualifying TB product line. They do note that it doesn't cover 100% of the changes, only the changes that apply to TB goods. 156 pages Jim Duncan http://tnblnx3.tnb.com/emAlbum/albums//us_resource/2011NEC_%20Code%20_Change s_bm_1.pdf ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] MC connectors
Wrenches Multi Contact makes MC panel mount M F receptacles but several of the larger pv distributors don't offer anything but the cable mount variety on their www catalogs. Where can these be ordered? thanks as always Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy 486 W.N. Woody Road Azle Texas 76020 NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer No.031310-57 TECL 27398 nt...@1scom.net 817.917.0527 www.ntrei.com attachment: North Texas Renewable Energy Inc.vcf___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Air conditioning for batteries in high temperature climate
Re: [RE-wrenches] Air conditioning for batteries in highIt's the efficiency of the chemical reaction that creates the loss. The electrolyte solution cannot pull out nor put back the same amount of 'energy' in hotter or colder conditions. When temperatures moderate, the chemical reaction returns to its nominal efficiency. The batterys capacity should not be permanently affected unless SOC reaches extreme levels. Or that's how I recall the process explained for cold temps. I assume the same is true for high temps. Jim -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On Behalf Of Hugh Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 2:13 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Air conditioning for batteries in high temperature climate Hi Roy, Hi temperatures will hit the battery capacity but will the battery efficiency be that much affected? If the battery capacity is inadequate then you need to compare the aircon running cost to the cost of buying a 10% larger battery. Don't you? Cheers Hugh Bob is correct, I do have an off grid client that uses an AC unit to keep the batteries cool. Although we're not in a high temp climate, it does get into the 80's and low 90's here in the summer. By my calculations, he was losing an 'average' of 10% storage capacity during the 5 month period from late spring to early fall. In July and August it was closer to 18%, but for calculation purposes, 10% is close enough. His bank capacity is 4800AH @ 48 VDC. That's 230,400 watt hours and 10% of that rounds out to 23,000 watt hours lost to heat. I showed up one day to check something in the power shed and was dismayed to see a window AC unit installed there. An interesting customer discussion ensued and I had to admit he was correct in his calculations. The Energy Star rated AC unit consumes no more than 3,000 watt hours per day, even in the highest heat. Essentially, he's 'spending 3 kilowatt hours to 'buy back' 20 kilowatt hours of storage. He got me on that one! That reasoning didn't work on the 6 other AC units that appeared on his house the following week. But that's another story altogether! Roy Butler NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer® NYSERDA eligible PV wind installer PA Sunshine Program Approved PV Installer Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC 8902 Route 46 Arkport, NY 14807 607-324-9747 www.four-winds-energy.com Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. On 4/22/2011 7:40 AM, bob ellison wrote: I believe Roy has a customer with a huge battery bank that air conditioned the battery room. He ran the numbers and the air conditioning actually made sense. Bob Ellison From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of R Ray Walters Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 4:50 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Air conditioning for batteies in high temperature climate Are you using temperature compensation? It lowers the voltage when its hot. Also, have you considered setting the batteries in a below ground vault? I've had good luck with in floor battery boxes. Finally, AGMs and L16s just don't last very long anyway. AGMs maybe 3 years, and L16s I've seen die in under 5 years and we get to 15 below zero. My suggestion: temp comp, ground vault, HUP or equivalent cycle life. R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Apr 21, 2011, at 1:22 PM, Starlight Solar, Larry Crutcher wrote: Hello Battery Wrenches, Over the years I have had several battery banks in Baja and Sonora Mexico fail in just 36 to 48 months. These have been L16 or 8D AGM or flooded banks, 24 and 48 volt systems. The charging systems are working properly and programmed to manufacturer recommended set points and discharges are rarely over 30% DoD. Some batteries are only used on weekends, some are discharged daily. I believe what is affecting the short life is the high temperature they live in for 5 months each year. Temps. can hit 115 F in vented battery rooms. I have been thinking about a small air conditioner and insulated battery box to keep the battery at no more than 80 F. There are some portable units that draw about 600 watts and the run time would be very little with a highly insulated enclosure. There is ample power to do this on the home I am changing batteries in now. Has anyone done this and gained longer battery life? Best Regards, Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems powered by STARLIGHT ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address:
[RE-wrenches] METAL ROOF ATTACHMENT
Wrenches I'm proposing a PV array on a metal building with L feet attached directly thru the roof into the purlins. The plan is to use thread cutting SS bolts, a minimum of ¼-28 pitch. The metal is 14 ga and will engage over 2 full threads and because the array is only 2 landscape modules on NS rails there will be 2 bolts for every module. 36 total. Im using a mag base drill press so the144 holes will be straight round. What surprises can I expect or is there an easier way to go about this. Your 2¢ is welcome. Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy 486 W.N. Woody Road Azle Texas 76020 NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer No.031310-57 TECL 27398 nt...@1scom.net 817.917.0527 www.ntrei.com attachment: North Texas Renewable Energy Inc.vcf___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Are Stainless Steel Star Washers UL 467 compatable?
Dan if I recall from my younger days as a wrench [car], star washers work properly only when turned while being crushed. The rotation causes the tines to dig into both surfaces and literally gouge out metal to lock itself in place. Simply compressing a star washer between aluminum and a ground lugs surfaces won't have the same effect of gouging thru the aluminum oxidation into fresh metal. It's the same principle used in the WEEB style grounding washers, you got to penetrate. That's why star washers are still allowed for grounding several brands of modules using those cheezy wire-around-the-screw OEM ground assemblies. Jim -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On Behalf Of d...@foxfire-energy.com Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 4:02 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Are Stainless Steel Star Washers UL 467 compatable? I'm struggling with where I came up with the notion that Nolox coated Stainless Steel Star washers under copper drop-in ground lugs for grounding module frames are NEC compliant. Can't seem to lay me fingers on it in the 2011 NEC. I'm wondering if this might be yet another Former Life things. UL467? a manufacturer specific thing? I'm confoosed and I want to go outside and play. db Dan Brown Foxfire Energy Corp. Renewable Energy Systems (802)-483-2564 www.Foxfire-Energy.com NABCEP #092907-44 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Tall L-feet
YamahaGenerators.com EF2400iS-HC - Premium Inverter Generators - Wrenches after a brief search of roof-mount www sites I was not able to find a taller aluminum L-foot than the standard 3 inch tall style. I recall that Unirac makes a double wide one but about 2 inches taller would do the trick. Thanks as always Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer No.031310-57 TECL 27398 nt...@1scom.net 817.917.0527 www.ntrei.com attachment: North Texas Renewable Energy Inc.vcf___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] galvanized barn roofing
Daryl, I haven't done it but have heard of using U bolts from below to 2X rafters. Think 8 inch long muffler clamp with a metal flat drilled plate on the top, the bottom coated with sealant L foot held down by nuts on top. Pullout strength is unlimited and a sturdy metal plate to attach to plus it's watertight. I have seen galv metal barns with only roofing nails holding the roof down. Low pressure inside is not a problem where there aren't 4 walls so uplift is not an issue. I'd also draw up a CYA liability release. Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer No.031310-57 TECL 27398 nt...@1scom.net 817.917.0527 www.ntrei.com -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On Behalf Of penobscotso...@midmaine.com Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 4:28 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] galvanized barn roofing Does anyone have experience mounting arrays on barns with 24 wide galvanized roofing (not standing seam)? It is flat, not corrugated, but has an overlapping edge on either side. It's pretty much a standard on barn roofs around here, but I hesitate to penetrate any metal roof. How have others dealt with this type of material? Thanks for any information, Daryl Daryl DeJoy NABCEP Certified PV installer Penobscot Solar Design ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org attachment: North Texas Renewable Energy Inc.vcf___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP test
Gives a whole new meaning to non-profit. Jim My favorite part was when the test results arrived by mail, it had a postage due notice on it. Had to pony up more $$ to tell if I passed or failed!! Glenn Burt From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Nick Vida Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 9:35 PM To: wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP test my favorite part of the test was sitting for an ultra detailed exam that expected you to have certain things memorized that no engineer or electrician does't use resources for (like voltage drop, lag bolt ratings, and the rest) and getting the letter with the test location with the wrong address on it! I was sent to: 810 n. Poinsettia Santa Ana 92647 when the actual address was: 810 n. Poinsettia St. Santa Ana 92701 Imagine my surprise when I drove 40 miles to a city I barley know for a test you can't take if you are late, and I arrive in a sub-division! And yes, having a St, Rd or Ln is a big part of finding the place, as well as the correct zipcode! Nick I agree, but what really got me was all the most safe questions. I am glad that it is hard, however, because now that a c-10 can take it after 2 installs I think it is pretty hard to really expect too much respect. That being said, combined with my 6 years of installing, it is a nice additional credential. nick vida/ ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Sanyo problems (now email etiquette question)
August it depends on which email program you use. With MS Outlook or Express, right click on the specific email when it's highlighted. A menu appears with 'Options' or 'Properties'at the bottom. Click it and you get a jumble of text that has 'from' listed somewhere. there it is, just highlight it and copy it. Just be sure not to reply or we all will get to read it. Jim -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On Behalf Of August Goers Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 11:17 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Sanyo problems (now email etiquette question) Michael - This has come up before. I'm probably missing something simple but the problem for me is that Wrenches emails do not contain the senders original address in a way that I've been able to find it. Any suggestions about where I can find the senders email? Best, August -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Michael Welch Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 9:08 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Sanyo problems Just a reminder to all, please send requests and anything else intended for an individual to that individual, and NOT the whole list. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact me off list. Thanks in advance. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Chinese roof mounting system...
Wrenches have any wrenches used the Grace Solar mounting rail/clamp assembly? The clamps are drop-in, like T-head bolts but clamp against both edges of the rail. The rail allows the same clamps to attach on either the top edge or side. Their www site didn't list any US distributors. http://www.gracesolar.com/UploadFile/pdf/15201174911PM-PitchedRoofRackingSys tem.pdf Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer No.031310-57 TECL 27398 nt...@1scom.net 817.917.0527 www.ntrei.com attachment: North Texas Renewable Energy Inc.vcf___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Value of PV system to a home
While the Appraisal Institute model is about the only widespread reference point available, it too lacks strong credibility due to the perception that it's out dated information and nothing else confirms its conclusion. Many in the anti-RE realm point to the fact that F/FFHA don't support the premise that energy saving has real value and use FF as a valid reason, along with the ...no credible evidence argument, not to. FF are private mortgage investment corporations that are supported with taxpayer money, money that kept them from collapsing under the weight of their own bad mortgage investments. Their dislike of any pro-renewable program [PACE comes instantly to mind] is grounded in their perception that the low risk design that makes PACE so desirable to cities and homeowners is a financial risk to the private investors returns. The logic is: homeowner with PV defaults, taxing authority bonds are exempt from risk, investment banks are left holding the bag, investors lose pennies. Those investors lobbyists pushed back up the chain of authority to, among other things, seriously wound California's own voter approved and taxpayer friendly version of PACE. As usual the taxpayers lost much of the the momentum that had brought them so close to creating another national standard for renewable energy financing without taxpayers having to foot the bill before the investment cartel pulled the rug out from under us. The FHA, being nothing more than a hand-puppet for the mortgage industry, nodded in agreement and brandished their rubber stamp of approval. The factual and irrefutable data proving beyond any doubt that homes businesses with PV are worth more should be an immediate goal for the RE industry. While that proof, if it even exists, might not open the investment floodgates, it would however open more doors for investors which moves our industry a step closer to reaching critical mass. my 2¢ Jim Duncan PV installer financial know-it-all From: Jamie Johnson jjohn...@spefl.com Keith Joel, The old metric was $20 in value for each $1 saved in energy, however the Appraisal Institute has not supported that valuation metric for some time now and neither has Fannie, Freddie or FHA. Using the gross sales price that the customer paid for PV as a valuation number was also shot down. And unfortunately most regional MLS databases don't provide a category for solar electric, solar hot water or solar pool heaters, so that makes it difficult for an appraiser to use the sales comparison approach. A year ago I began developing a valuation model for PV for the Appraisal Institutes Educational Committee and they are now incorporating parts of it into their training programs on valuation of sustainable buildings for appraisers. Earlier this year DOE awarded a grant to Sandia Natl Lab to essentially do the same thing for the Solar America Cities program (soon to be the Solar America Communities program) and they have since picked up my work on the valuation model. A proof of concept spreadsheet (which takes all of the fun out of it) and pdf explanation of the valuation model should be released this summer. I will provide the download link to the list when it is available. It's important to note that any valuation model for PV needs to be accepted by Fannie, Freddie and FHA before it is relied on and quoted by the PV industry. There are currently ongoing discussions between FFF, AI and DOE on PV valuations and hopefully they will resolve the PV valuation issues for loan transactions soon. Jamie Johnson NABCEP Certified PV Technical Sales Professional PVTS012911-44 NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer 031310-118 General Manager SOLAR POWER ELECTRIC Original Message Subject: [RE-wrenches] Value of PV system to a home From: Keith Cronin electrich...@yahoo.com Date: Tue, March 22, 2011 2:57 am To: RE-Wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Hi Was wondering if anyone has any new data points on the additional value a PV system adds to the home? If someone spends $X for a system and saves $Y a month/year, how is this being calculated? Do we have actuaries with enough empirical data to suggest what the numbers would look like? Realizing alot has to do with location, current cost per kWh of electricity etc. Could have swore there were some studies done to imput the value of two homes on the same street, one with solar and one without- for some granular details on the delta in values. Thanks Keith sigimg1.jpg___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings:
Re: [RE-wrenches] Tall pole mount
Holt, the rule of thumb is equal parts pipe above and below ground. In your case you might want to consider a large belled 36 diameter concreate pier with a ring of oversized anchor bolts. The pole bottom would need a large flange with very robust gussets. Extend that larger base, 6-8 feet up and scaled down to a smaller diameter pole to the top. You'll want to do the complete assembly and wiring before lifting into place with a crane. Kind of like a mono-pole wind turbine. We've built trackers of ~125 sq ft PV area in high-wind locations and mounted them on Wattsun AZ-225 dual axis tracker drives. The 225 is designed for up to 225 sq ft of PVso the system has very little movement from the undersized array even in high winds like today. You'll get some pretty scary movement at that height regardless of the pipe size. Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer No.031310-57 TECL 27398 nt...@1scom.net 817.917.0527 www.ntrei.com -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On Behalf Of hol...@sbcglobal.net Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 8:13 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Tall pole mount Situation: Client has limited locations for array due to trees. There is one spot that would work IF pole mount is 20-25' (that would put the array top edge at 30'+). Will need to incorporate tracker to maximize production. Will definitely be consulting structural engineer. Questions: Anyone tried this? Comments or lessons learned? Holt E. Kelly Holtek Fireplace Solar Products 500 Jewell Dr. Waco TX. 76712 254-751-9111 www.holteksolar.com attachment: North Texas Renewable Energy Inc.vcf___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Lithium-ion battery charging
Wrenches I am researching a GT PV installation to power an EV charging station at a new car dealership nearby. After researching l-ion technology and charging information on the www, I see that most references to l-ion and EVs in general refer to battery capacity in kWh instead of Ah. Is kWh the new standard for battery propulsion in cars or is it used muddy the conversion from Ah similar to the cold-cranking amps standard for starter batteries? I know kWh battery capacity could be calculated assuming a constant charge/discharge rate but cars will seldom be operated at a constant discharge rate. Thanks for some clues Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer No.031310-57 TECL 27398 nt...@1scom.net 817.917.0527 www.ntrei.com attachment: North Texas Renewable Energy Inc.vcf___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Damaged Modules (Hidden on Pallets)
When four pallets of Spire 85W modules arrived at the job site in 2006, the ranch manager there signed for them after counting them and only a cursory look and walk around. Turns out the very bottom module on one pallet had a slight, and almost invisible scrape from [?] the forklift causing the glass to shatter. It would have never been visible without bending over for a close up look. Stretch wrap also made the close examination difficult. The modules were exposed on the sides except for the corners which had heavy formed cardboard corner braces and banding. Not surprisingly the wrap was not torn. Live and learn. Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer No.031310-57 TECL 27398 nt...@1scom.net 817.917.0527 www.ntrei.com -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On Behalf Of Jason Szumlanski Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 12:43 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Damaged Modules (Hidden on Pallets) I'd like to know your experiences when finding shattered module(s) in the middle of a full palletized shipment, particularly when you observed no exterior damage having inspected the shipment carefully. How did your supplier/manufacturer handle it? How did the freight company handle it, having not noted anything on the delivery ticket? I heard of some other installers recently having similar problems. We heeded the advice to inspect shipments carefully. We just had our first issue... Any thoughts on how this kind of damage happens? Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org attachment: North Texas Renewable Energy Inc.vcf___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Array tilt angle doesn't matter?
At least that's the conclusion of Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz. The largest difference of the [PV] plant yield was less than 6% for tilt angles between 0° and 70°. This begs the question, where did the notion that tilt to latitude is critical come from. Surely NREL or someone else has tested this concept before. Anyway if N-S angle energy production loss is only 6% to +/-35° then E-W should be too, right? But it's not. Here's why. If you measured irradiance at 10°-70° only at noon over 12 months, the air mass would at its minimum during the entire test and so irradiance deviation would be too. AM would not be constant at +/- 35° E-W which has been verified by NREL and others for a long time, AM increases the further from solar noon the sun gets. But if the Earths tilt is 23.5 degrees and Gottfried measured to 35 degrees, the difference is 11.5 degrees at summer and winter solstice. And if your array angle is +/- 11.5 deg from true south, rule of thumb is that irradiance losses are minimal. Maybe only 6% or so. This puts the significance of array tilt in a whole new light. Pun intended... Of course there is a fee to download the entire document but the abstract is here http://tinyurl.com/4zf2syk http://www.scopus.com/record/display.url?eid=2-s2.0-78951495350origin=inwar dtxGid=kX6CkwoH_w_VL01NbmaciIC%3a2 Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Xslent?
How efficient is a capacitor in offsetting the power factor error? 99.9%... ±2%...? Jim Duncan -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]on Behalf Of Exeltech Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2011 9:03 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Xslent? --- On Fri, 1/7/11, Peter Parrish peter.parr...@calsolareng.com wrote: What ever is done to reduce the reative power, it has to be done in real time (with a fraction of 0.016 seconds, the 60 Hz cycle). You can’t wait until later in the evening to solve a problem that is occuring during the day. Peter is absolutely correct. Power factor correction MUST occur on a half-cycle by half-cycle basis, and at the exact moment of power consumption by the reactive load. Anything else won't be effective, and may in fact worsen the power factor at a given point in the grid. Real time compensation can be often done with capacitors alone or in conjuction with some smart electronics. Remember that for short periods of time capacitors can store considerable amounts of energy and can smooth out these reactive currents. Capacitors placed across a power line will store energy for exactly one-half cycle. At that point, the polarity reverses, the capacitor is discharged to to zero, then recharged to the opposite polarity. This process repeats every cycle. What DOES take place is a phase shift (displacement) in the current flow relative to the voltage waveform. Power factor correction is done with capacitor banks (we see them in substations and on power poles) to offset the power factor of the grid itself, which by its design is inherently inductive due to long runs of wire. Very large motors will have individual tuning capacitors installed to offset inductive reactive current flow. These capacitors are disconnected whenever the respective motor to which they're connected is not in use. On occasion, excessive capacitance exists in a circuit that must be offset by inductance, but this is rare. Like Tom Cruise said in Top Gun .. It's complicated. Dan --- On Fri, 1/7/11, Peter Parrish peter.parr...@calsolareng.com wrote: From: Peter Parrish peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Xslent? To: 'RE-wrenches' re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: Friday, January 7, 2011, 5:39 PM I know only a little about Power Factor “charges”, but we can figure out some other “engineering” issues. Power Factor is a measure of the amount of reactive (out-of-phase) power compared to real (in-phase) power. It is somewhat complicated but the PF is unity for 100% in phase and 0 for 100% out-of-phase power. The important thing to remember is that (while holding the real power constant) for PFs less than unity there is in addition to the real power, and “in-flow” of power and an “outflow” of power four times a cycle. One might say, “Why do I care about reactive power? It flows in and out with no net contribution over the long run!). True, but the in-flow and out-flow represents higher currents on the lines and more losses. Or it means that there have to be oversized service conductors to avoid the extra losses. Even if the losses are avoided, the higher currents can trip overcurrent protection devices, and of course the utility company needs to supply (and take back) the extra currents in real time. What ever is done to reduce the reative power, it has to be done in real time (with a fraction of 0.016 seconds, the 60 Hz cycle). You can’t wait until later in the evening to solve a problem that is occuring during the day. Real time compensation can be often done with capacitors alone or in conjuction with some smart electronics. Remember that for short periods of time capacitors can store considerable amounts of energy and can smooth out these reactive currents. I can well imagine how an inverter can be designed to generate both real and reactive power, and therfore an inverter can reduce the amount of reactive power that needs to be supplied by the utility company – but not when the sun isn’t shining. I suspect that these types of inverters will have oversized output circuit wiring to handle the reactive currents without adversely impacting their efficiency rating. If I have time this weekend, I will take a look at Apparent’s website. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave. , Los Angeles , CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885
[RE-wrenches] Outback Mate Controller Issues
It's a bit of a long shot but consider that the last solar maximum was in 2000 ad. An 11 year cycle would put us right about in the middle of another peak. Occasional rogue solar flares, like the one in 1989 that knocked out the entire Quebec power grid and part of the NW US grid do appear and vanish within a day or two leaving behind only baffled humans and irate radio operators. Jim Duncan Good Morning All..we have recently had 2 off grid outback systems go haywire.both have been running perfectly for more than 2 years.then all of a sudden the mate stops allowing AC inputs.a variety of troubleshooting indicated all components were fine.Outback support took care to help with the confirmation that all the components were fine..finally with us being stumped, tech support asked us to unplug the mate from the hub and replug it back in.Voila! everything started working properly again..only setting that seemed to be changed and needed to be reset was that the chargers on the inverters were turned off and a few button pushes later and this was also restored.. Anyone else having any similar experiences? This is puzzling as we haven't ever had this kind of problem and for some coincidental reason we had two systems both with long term smooth operating histories have the same issue..we appreciated the quick, accessible, competent support from Outback tech support but remain puzzled as to what may have triggered these odd events..feedback appreciated! -- Sunny Regards, Kirpal Khalsa NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer Renewable Energy Systems www.oregonsolarworks.com 541-218-0201 m 541-592-3958 o ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Cable REvistied
Vaseline will also flow into the cable strands, just like solder, coating and protecting all the internal strands. Almost too hot to touch is plenty hot enough to allow it to flow. Too hot and it burns. Jim Duncan -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]on Behalf Of R Ray Walters Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 1:54 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Cable REvistied We use the same inner melt heat shrink, I think. You don't know you have a problem, until you cut that pretty heat shrink off 5 years later, and see what is happening underneath. The reason we use the vaseline, is that it remains conductive, so we can precoat the connectors before assembling and tightening. (Windy Dankoff taught us that one) I would see the 3M coating as something to spray on after, but I would be concerned about using it on contact surfaces before. I agree, heat can be an issue, so we use a high temp grease for applications were the temp might get over 100 deg F. Maybe a combination might work best: grease on the contact surfaces before, and 3M spray outside after? R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Nov 30, 2010, at 9:47 AM, Warren Lauzon wrote: We use the “inner melt” type of heat shrink and have had few problems with it compared to the standard heat shrink. As far as Lead plated lugs, I am not sure I see much advantage to them. Also as far as coatings go, most Vaseline and other standard grease type are way too temperature sensitive, and in hot weather they just melt away – and they are also great dust/bug/dirt gatherers. 3M and others make a spray on coating that hardens somewhat that we have found to be much better. From the 3M website “Scotch® Insulating Sprays 1601 and 1602 are electrical-grade, fast-drying enamel sealers and insulators in pressurized cans. Full Description » These sealers protect surfaces against weather, moisture, corrosion, oil, alkalies and acids. The sprays can afford easy access to hard-to-reach spots. Use Insulating Spray sealers to spray over insulation on wire and cable splices, as a general-purpose sealer, or for touch-up insulation on motor windings and frames. Sprays are available in clear, red or black.” The local Home Depot carries it here, also some electrical distributors. From: R Ray Walters Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 9:26 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Cable REvistied HI Mark; Where do you get the lead plated lugs? We used to special order tin plated lugs from Del City, but they quit carrying them. I found that the grease or vaseline coating was the most important issue, though. Tin plated lugs would corrode just like the unplated ones, except they first would lose their plating. Lead plated lugs might just be the ticket, except you would still have to keep the corrosion from creeping up under the heat shrink to the copper cable. I've had cables with corrosion going up the cable strands for over 6 past the lug. And yes we use heat shrink with the sealing adhesive inside; the corrosion just travels right under it along the surface of the metal. I actually found electrical tape seals better, it just doesn't look near as good, so we still use heat shrink, and coat over the heat shrink with the vaseline (or grease). R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Nov 30, 2010, at 9:09 AM, Mark Frye wrote: I recently worked with a telecom specification that required lead plated copper lugs on the battery side and I have been using the same on my own systems for some time now. How important is it to use lead plated lugs on the battery side? Is tin plated copper just as good so long as you coat well with grease etc.? Mark Frye Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 303 Redbud Way Nevada City, CA 95959 (530) 401-8024 www.berkeleysolar.com -- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Glenn Burt Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 6:03 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Cable REvistied Hi Ray, I have for my last 2 battery jobs used the Cobra X-Flex in 2/0 size with MTW rating. At the battery end I have found the Thomas Betts 54163-TB lugs, available at my local Grainger store to be a good match both mechanically and specification wise (also the correct hole size for M8 terminals in my Concorde AGM’s). On the usual electrical equipment end, I use a Greaves Shoo-Pin PT131FX20 as the appropriate reducer to a THHN stranding #2/0 size (available through our local Graybar store, drop shipped to my office). Because I am using a Sunny Island, of course nothing #2 fits… so I
Re: [RE-wrenches] Protection against birds
Lee I haven't tried rubber snakes but most living creatures are afraid of them. You might give it a try. Jim Duncan ** Hi Wrenches, My prospect has an existing problem with birds (black birds, pigeons, and sparrows) nesting on their roof in every available nook and cranny. They are concerned about the birds soiling the modules. I have suggested putting a wire mesh around the array so that the birds can't get under the array and build nests. I am concerned about the nests that will be built along the top of the array on the wire mesh that I have so conveniently located for them. If there are too many nests then the air flow up and under the array could be compromised. Any thoughts? Possibly spikes along the top of array to discourage landing, pictures of cats, or warning signs - Birds-High Voltage go further South Thanks! Lee -- Lee Bristol NABCEP Certified Solar Designer/Installer ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] The perfect solar ready roof
Phil hits the nail on the head, it sounds like we've both been down this road. Problem is it's not always as simple as asking the roofers to do their job your way when you are not signing their paycheck. I contracted a metal roof PV installation a few years back but only got the job on the condition, by the very fastidious homeowner, that I could verify that the installation won't cause leaks or void the warranty on the 2 year old roof. He gave me the roofers name and the roofing product and mfgr. I researched the manufacturers installation requirements for our inland climate. Then I called the roofer and asked if the 16 wide panels were installed per the mfgrs specs. He proceeded to go ballistic, telling me that if I put one module on 'his' roof he would void the warranty. Even after sending him links to the S5 engineering test results he refused to even talk to me. Finally the customer had to have a long talk with the guy before he was convinced his roof had been installed correctly. Bottom line you cannot ever be certain about the quality of the installation by someone else. Besides, the homeowners insurance company will have the last word on whether a PV mounted roof, found across the street after a windstorm, was installed right or not. CYA Jim Duncan -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]on Behalf Of Phil Undercuffler Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 10:29 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] The perfect solar ready roof There is a big difference between standing seam metal roofs and surface screwed metal roofs. With surface screwed (aka ProPanel or Ag Panel), screws penetrate through the roof skin and rely upon a neoprene gasket under a cupped washer to provide the weather-tight seal. It makes a pretty good seal and I've used it on my own home, but I don't think I'd use it in Montana and I sure wouldn't try to attach PV over it. The days of lagging L feet through the roof deck are thankfully waning, and there is almost no practical way to use a flashed method of mounting with surface screwed metal. With standing seam roofs, the metal is formed into long U shaped pans. As each pan is installed, the roofer nails L shaped clips to the deck with one side of the clip butted up against the latest pan. The next pan is butted up against the first, which captures the clip between the two. The upward facing legs of the U (and clip) are then crimped and folded over, locking them together and forming a watertight seal. I had a standing seam roof on my home in Cincinnati -- eighty years old and still going strong. The biggest challenge with attaching PV to standing seam roofs is not how well the modules are attached to the skin, but how well the skin is attached to the structure. Read the archives, but in the end this really comes down to how close the roofer installed the clips. This is where the 4 that Andrew mentioned comes into play (seems a little excessive to me, but what the heck, I'm not a roofing dude and this isn't something you want to do twice). The dream scenario part comes in when you realize that YOU get to drive the bus on how closely the clips are installed, as opposed to being presented with a roof where you have no idea how many clips were used, what the spacing is, or even whether nails or screws or bubble gum were used to connect them to the deck. The folks that make the S-5 clamp know metal roofs, and they can help you determine what spacing works for your application. Get that into the contract, and make sure someone is on site providing oversight when the roof is installed. As far as some of the other options which were presented -- yes, lagging into engineered I-beams is probably not a good idea without checking with the manufacturer, but adding a second layer of ply doesn't suddenly make a structural base for lag screws. Lag screw pull-out resistance is provided by inches of thread embedded into solid wood, and shiners (fasteners that poke through the deck into the attic space) won't give any real strength. If it's really 1/2 ply, adding a layer of 3/4 ply would give you 1-1/4 of wood -- do the math and see if that's enough for your climate. Adding 2x blocking would be an option if you have access to the attic, but you need to make sure the loads transfer to the rafters (I-beams), rather than concentrate on the deck. Nailing the blocking would be fine -- after all, that's how houses are built. Lagging the blocking as suggested by someone earlier, however, will not only be insanely difficult but risk splitting the top chord of the beam. If you split that, I would immediately stop what you're doing and consult with the I-beam manufacturer. Big liability moment there. But I'd avoid all that lags, nails, plywood and blocking entirely, put on a standing seam metal roof with adequate clips and install the PV with S-5 clamps. My .02 Phil
Re: [RE-wrenches] VAWT recommendation
Greg, keep in mind this is the US military we're talking about. They neither think nor function in reality a large part of the time. They are trained to follow orders and are not allowed to think for themselves. Maybe you've never served Jim Duncan ** Kelly, I've never seen one or heard of one that produces power or lasts. If you install these your name is on them. If they don't work it reflects on you and your business. I'd write the prime contractor a short note letting them know that you cannot find a VAWT that you can recommend with a clear conscious and because you don't want he and his company to wind up with a black eye, your not going to recommend a VAWT to him for purchase. If he's smart he'll tell the Navy he can't get a knowledgeable person with a conscious to sell him one and they'll do the right thing and either install a HAWT of good lineage or more solar. Best, Greg Egan Remote Power Inc. Send RE-wrenches mailing list submissions to re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to re-wrenches-requ...@lists.re-wrenches.org You can reach the person managing the list at re-wrenches-ow...@lists.re-wrenches.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of RE-wrenches digest... When responding to posts within the Digest, be sure to restore the Subject: line to the original, and please edit out any extraneous lines from the quoted message. Today's Topics: 1. Re: VAWT recommendation (Dan Fink) 2. Re: Mounting Enphase when using S-5-PV Clamps (benn kilburn) 3. Re: The perfect solar ready roof (Hans Frederickson) 4. Re: VAWT recommendation (Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun Wind) 5. Re: VAWT recommendation (Dan Fink) 6. Re: Mounting Enphase when using S-5-PV Clamps (North Texas Renewable Energy Inc) 7. Re: VAWT recommendation (Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun Wind) 8. Re: Inverter 1741 Listing Process (Exeltech) 9. Re: The perfect solar ready roof (North Texas Renewable Energy Inc) 10. Re: The perfect solar ready roof (Chris Daum) 11. Re: The perfect solar ready roof (Richard L Ratico) 12. Re: The perfect solar ready roof (Chris Daum) 13. Re: VAWT recommendation (Darryl Thayer) 14. Re: The perfect solar ready roof (benn kilburn) -- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 15:16:46 -0600 From: Dan Fink dan...@hughes.net To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] VAWT recommendation Message-ID: 4cbf5c3...@hughes.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Kelly; I would insist on a years worth of actual wind speed versus energy output data performed by an unaffiliated third party, before even touching this project with a 10-foot gin pole. DAN FINK Buckville Energy Consulting LLC Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun Wind wrote: Wind wrenches, We have a subcontract to install 30kW of VAWT, along with 30kW of PV for the Navy. The Navy specified Helix Wind turbines, and is adamant on sticking with VAWTs, although they may accept an alternative. The GC we are working under is sufficiently scared of Helix to look for a viable alternative. Are there any?! The GC has done some research and wants to use the UGE-4K from Urban Green Energy http://www.urbangreenenergy.com It's an H-style lift machine that appears to have several European certifications on safety, power performance, noise, and vibration. Anyone know anything about these turbines or company? UGE's address is NY. Roy? Thanks, -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun Wind Renewable Energy Systems ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360-678-7131 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 360-678-7131 end_of_the_sk ype_highlighting -- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 16:17:36 -0600 From: benn kilburn b...@daystarsolar.ca To: Wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Mounting Enphase when using S-5-PV Clamps Message-ID: col121-w2359be547c2d1a3c956ce5ad...@phx.gbl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Not a lot of you guys in the field today 'eh? I was just checking a spec on my laptop and noticed i had a wireless signal and a mailbox full of great feedback, thanks again everyone!!! I'll go over all the details from everyone a little more when i'm done on site for the day. For a few of you i just wanted to show you this link to the S-5-PV clamp, which is different from just the S-5! clamp Click here to learn more. The S-5-PV does not need rails, the mod frames sit on the 'mounting disc' which can accommodate one or two modules. BUT, with the Enphase system, this leave no where
Re: [RE-wrenches] The perfect solar ready roof
Chris You would need to use something like the Unirac Fast foot to attach your PV standoffs. Fast foot uses multiple smaller gauge screws into the decking, necessary since engineered beams are not able to provide the 4-5 inches of solid wood needed for traditional lag bolts. The engineered beams you speak of, while rigid light-weight and cost-competitive with dimension lumber, are usually recommended for joists or floor beams though not usually used for rafters. I'm curious, how did the homeowner get 1/2 inch decking past the building inspector? Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy 486 W.N. Woody Road Azle Texas 76020 NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer No.31310-57 TECL 27398 nt...@1scom.net 817.917.0527 www.ntrei.com -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]on Behalf Of Chris Daum Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 9:58 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: [RE-wrenches] The perfect solar ready roof Dear Wrenches: I have a composite (shingle) roof at hand, and the owner wants to upgrade it to a metal roof and install a 5kw+ array on it. The rafters are those (sort of) particle board I-beams covered with 1/2 plywood (and shingles). What's the best metal roofing you could suggest--and would you beef up the wood to lag into? Thanks for all your input. Chris Daum Oasis Montana Inc. 406-777-4309 406-777-0830 fax attachment: North Texas Renewable Energy Inc.vcf___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Mounting Enphase when using S-5-PV Clamps
Benn just bear in mind that any adjustment of the module height, must be performed by turning a jam nut under the S5-PV clamps mounting surface and will need to be done from below using an open-end wrench! If the ribs are pretty level that may not be such a chore. But I've seen some pretty unlevel metal ribs on older roofs. Carry along a 10-12 foot rail section for a straightedge to get the heights on the money before you start to clamp modules. Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]on Behalf Of benn kilburn Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 5:18 PM To: Wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Mounting Enphase when using S-5-PV Clamps Not a lot of you guys in the field today 'eh? I was just checking a spec on my laptop and noticed i had a wireless signal and a mailbox full of great feedback, thanks again everyone!!! I'll go over all the details from everyone a little more when i'm done on site for the day. For a few of you i just wanted to show you this link to the S-5-PV clamp, which is different from just the S-5! clamp Click here to learn more. The S-5-PV does not need rails, the mod frames sit on the 'mounting disc' which can accommodate one or two modules. BUT, with the Enphase system, this leave no where to mount the inverters. Bill made a good point; save this mounting method for string inverter systems. We are now planning this project using just the S-5 clamp/L-foot/rail system. No problems. Back at 'er! benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca 780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] The perfect solar ready roof
MessageAfter re-reading your original letter Chris, it sounds like the roof makeover hasn't happened yet. If that's the case suggest to the owner that, based on the 100 years or so of combined professional experience of the PV installer community, he should not use the engineered rafters or the 1/2 decking if he's wanting PV on top. Pull out a copy of the International Building Code and show him. not a roofer, Jim Duncan Dear Wrenches have a composite (shingle) roof at hand, and the owner wants to upgrade it to a metal roof and install a 5kw+ array on it. The rafters are those (sort of) particle board I-beams covered with 1/2 plywood (and shingles). What's the best metal roofing you could suggest--and would you beef up the wood to lag into? Thanks for all your input. Chris Daum Oasis Montana Inc. 406-777-4309 406-777-0830 fax ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] kee klamp fittings
Here's their online catalog with part numbers. http://commercecenter.keeklamp.com/Main.asp Jim Duncan -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]on Behalf Of jay peltz Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 10:13 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] kee klamp fittings HI All, Any recommendations about where to get Kee Klamp or Hollaender fittings. Would be for a ground rack, Steel 1.5 pipe. thanks, jay peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery capacity testers
Bob since we've scheduled 2 days for the 400a upgrade and generator installation, a 8-12 hour static period for the batteries won't be a problem. I suspect that the half day battery rest before testing VOC is not usually an option for most installers on service calls so their diagnosis could be consistently off the mark. If my VOC test finds a low cell I want to be able to check it with the capacity tester but I don't find anything rated below 12v. My original question was not do capacity testers work, I know they do, but which brand is reliable and accurate. Seems that no one uses them so the question goes unanswered. http://www.buchmann.ca/article25-page1.asp A good article on the topic is here for Wrenches enlightenment on newer testing technology. As for Daryls concern of liability, I have this customers initials beside the paragraph declining a maintenance contract on our original 2006 agreement. This customer will pay for the battery maintenance testing. Jim Duncan -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]on Behalf Of bob ellison Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 10:15 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery capacity testers The only way to do a capacity test is with a load bank over the rated discharge period of the batteries, it they have a 6 hour rate, use that one. The 20 hour rate takes too long! Voltage is a moving target and pretty much useless unless the battery has been sitting with no charge or discharge for 12 hours or so, and all that tells you is the state of charge nothing about the capacity of the battery. If you are going to buy a load bank the old resistor load banks are the best choices, the newer electronic units are too sensitive to damage and the failure rate is quite high according to my suppliers. They have gone back to the resistor banks in most cases. The load banks can test up to a 48 volt bank at one time, so you don’t need to test each cell for 6 hours, you can spend 6 hours and test them all at once! But your still going to spend 6 hours to do a correct test My first experience with gels was bad enough to make me swear off them and that was 18 years ago. I am sure they have I improved but most of my work is off grid and flooded work best in that use. Later, Bob Ellison From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of North Texas Renewable Energy Inc Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 9:36 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery capacity testers Todd I've heard the same arguement, as well as its inverse. The battery choice was the decision of the system owner. I know they are more sensitive to charge/discharge abuse but I see the full charge rate last week at 52.xx V, just like day 1and I trust the Trimetric and the Sunny Islands. We're taking down the entire system to upgrade install a 400A transfer switch so the batteries will have time to stabilize for the VOC check cleaning. I guess a more accurate question would be is it good enough to properly check cell VOC and not bother with the discharge capacity check? A compromise could be cap check 12V blocks of cells instead of all 24 separately. Or is the capacity checker a waste of money. Jim Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]on Behalf Of toddc...@finestplanet.com Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 2:23 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery capacity testers I know many on this list disagree, but this sounds SO typical for sealed batteries. It is why I never use em... never! If they are 5 years old, you are probably at the limit of their life. Replace em with flooded lead calciums and your customers (and you) will be happy for 20+ years. my .o2 Todd On Sunday, October 3, 2010 9:28pm, North Texas Renewable Energy Inc nt...@1scom.net said: I have a customer with a set of 24 Concord PVX-6480s that have twice failed during grid outages during the night. No large loads are on the critical load panel and, since it's at night when they drop to 50% dod, I'm not sure what's up with them. I plan on cleaning and retightning all the cable connections first to eliminate that possibility then checking VOC of each cell. Eventually we'll install a 25 kW genset but my first task is to find out the state of the batterys. The system turns five next spring so I don't think they are near an early death. The BOS is 2 Sunny Island 4248s with upgraded chipsets and the charger is set to spec though that may need to be bumped up. The only culprit I suspect is the high summer temperatures in this unconditioned equipment room. Finally it may be time to invest in a capacity
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery capacity testers
Todd I've heard the same arguement, as well as its inverse. The battery choice was the decision of the system owner. I know they are more sensitive to charge/discharge abuse but I see the full charge rate last week at 52.xx V, just like day 1and I trust the Trimetric and the Sunny Islands. We're taking down the entire system to upgrade install a 400A transfer switch so the batteries will have time to stabilize for the VOC check cleaning. I guess a more accurate question would be is it good enough to properly check cell VOC and not bother with the discharge capacity check? A compromise could be cap check 12V blocks of cells instead of all 24 separately. Or is the capacity checker a waste of money. Jim Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]on Behalf Of toddc...@finestplanet.com Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 2:23 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery capacity testers I know many on this list disagree, but this sounds SO typical for sealed batteries. It is why I never use em... never! If they are 5 years old, you are probably at the limit of their life. Replace em with flooded lead calciums and your customers (and you) will be happy for 20+ years. my .o2 Todd On Sunday, October 3, 2010 9:28pm, North Texas Renewable Energy Inc nt...@1scom.net said: I have a customer with a set of 24 Concord PVX-6480s that have twice failed during grid outages during the night. No large loads are on the critical load panel and, since it's at night when they drop to 50% dod, I'm not sure what's up with them. I plan on cleaning and retightning all the cable connections first to eliminate that possibility then checking VOC of each cell. Eventually we'll install a 25 kW genset but my first task is to find out the state of the batterys. The system turns five next spring so I don't think they are near an early death. The BOS is 2 Sunny Island 4248s with upgraded chipsets and the charger is set to spec though that may need to be bumped up. The only culprit I suspect is the high summer temperatures in this unconditioned equipment room. Finally it may be time to invest in a capacity tester. What brand is popular among those Wrenches with lots of experience in diagnosing a batterys health? The Concord DC5000 only comes in 12 24 V models and these are 2V cells. Thanks as always Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy 486 W.N. Woody Road Azle Texas 76020 NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer No.31310-57 TECL 27398 nt...@1scom.net 817.917.0527 www.ntrei.com Sent from Finest Planet WebMail. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Battery capacity testers
I have a customer with a set of 24 Concord PVX-6480s that have twice failed during grid outages during the night. No large loads are on the critical load panel and, since it's at night when they drop to 50% dod, I'm not sure what's up with them. I plan on cleaning and retightning all the cable connections first to eliminate that possibility then checking VOC of each cell. Eventually we'll install a 25 kW genset but my first task is to find out the state of the batterys. The system turns five next spring so I don't think they are near an early death. The BOS is 2 Sunny Island 4248s with upgraded chipsets and the charger is set to spec though that may need to be bumped up. The only culprit I suspect is the high summer temperatures in this unconditioned equipment room. Finally it may be time to invest in a capacity tester. What brand is popular among those Wrenches with lots of experience in diagnosing a batterys health? The Concord DC5000 only comes in 12 24 V models and these are 2V cells. Thanks as always Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy 486 W.N. Woody Road Azle Texas 76020 NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer No.31310-57 TECL 27398 nt...@1scom.net 817.917.0527 www.ntrei.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] fewer wires, mo bettah?
The only potential problem I see might be from one unbalanced string, shading for instance. Otherwise the 4 2%r strings feeding back thru a conductor with 1%r should be no problem. What could possibly go wrong Jim -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]on Behalf Of Hans Frederickson Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 6:52 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] fewer wires, mo bettah? Marco, In this case, slightly differing resistance between your grounded and ungrounded conductors will not make any difference. You will just need to do your DC voltage drop calculations for each half separately, instead of the typical voltage drop calculation that uses wire length x 2. Different resistance in parallel battery cables is an important issue, but that's not what you're talking about. Regards, -Hans -- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Marco Mangelsdorf Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 11:08 AM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: [RE-wrenches] fewer wires, mo bettah? Check this out. Four series strings of mods on a same plane roof feeding a larger Sunny Boy or Fronius inverter. Four #10 conductors for the ungrounded, fused (at the inverter) conductors. And for the grounded conductor, a single, common, larger conductor from those four strings. So instead of four pairs of wires, or eight total, I'm using just five (plus ground). Assuming that the larger grounded conductor is adequately sized taking into account conduit fill and temp derate for exposed conduit, does anyone see a problem in doing this? I've already been doing this for several years with no problems that I can tell. But it occurred to me whether different resistances between the ungrounded conductors and the grounded conductor might be an issue. Feedback appreciated. Thanks, marco ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] ARRA Question
The initial ARRA money, issued to states based on their population, was released just about a year ago. The portion that came to Texas was ~$225 million, maximum grant amount was $2 million. Of the 215 grant applications that made the final cut probably 95% were from cities and ISDs. I had the good fortune to be chosen as one of ten evaluators statewide who had to read every one of the apps, at least specific portions. Of the 3 pages of specific items that evaluators were asked to grade on a scale of 1 to 5, none mentioned NABCEP as a requirement by the state. However a number of both cities and ISDs made NABCEP a requirement for qualifying as the chosen one to complete the installation. I didn't make a mental note of how many NABCEP qualified apps there were because it was not among the listed item of importance. Quite a few had it as a requirement as I recall. As an aside, several years ago a municipally owned electric utility in Texas wanted to make NABCEP a mandatory requirement for any 'qualified' installers of utility rebated residential or commercial PV installations. The city attorney noted that the first time an otherwise qualified installer challenged that requirement in court, the city would lose. They modified the requirement to require someone 'qualified to sit for the PV certification test' be employed by the installer. That seems to be the model followed by other munis, REPs and TDs offering rebates in Texas. NABCEP has emphasized this difference, licensed vs. certified, numerous times. Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy 486 W.N. Woody Road Azle Texas 76020 NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer No.031310-57 TECL 27398 nt...@1scom.net 817.917.0527 www.ntrei.com -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]on Behalf Of Allan Sindelar Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 11:22 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] ARRA Question Does anyone know if NABCEP is a requirement for any project that uses ARRA funding? Thank you, Allan -- Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com attachment: North Texas Renewable Energy Inc.vcf___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Module Ground (was The Demise of Reason)
Owing to a strong lack of political correctness, I would point out the obvious; Underwriters Labs decisions are strongly influenced by industries that stand to financially benefit from UL rule making. Those component manufacturers pay a lot to have their products listed. Who among us has not grimaced at having to pay ridiculously high prices for simple electrical components, simply because it has the UL stamp. The PV industry is a long way from having that kind of clout. Even a revolutionary invention like the WEEB is not judged solely on its merits. And with its long and monopolistic history, UL is not about to cut a bit of slack to another upstart competitor like ETL. My $0.02 Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer No.31310-57 TECL 27398 nt...@1scom.net 817.917.0527 www.ntrei.com -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]on Behalf Of Joel Davidson Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 6:18 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Module Ground (was The Demise of Reason) Bill, You and John Wiles have shown leadership on the module grounding issue. It would be good to know who at UL is preventing a universal solution so that this issue can be resolved at the highest level once and for all. What do you suggest for the course of action? Joel Davidson -- From: Bill Brooks billbroo...@yahoo.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Cc: Christopher Flueckiger christopher.fluecki...@us.ul.com; Tim Zgonena timothy.p.zgon...@us.ul.com Sent: Mon, September 13, 2010 8:44:39 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] The Demise of Reason Peter, No tone was intended. The theme of your post was good, but the subject was misleading. The fact that you were shocked twice by my questioning your subject means that you misunderstood the tone of my questioning of your subject title. I misunderstood your post and reacted to a very negative subject heading that gave the impression that the WEEB product was generally experiencing its demise. I have heard of a few companies that have withdrawn information about the WEEB in their literature, but I was unaware that SunPower was one of them. Grounding of module frames has been a big issue for over a decade and module manufacturers have not done a lot to help the installer in this area. When UL cracked down on the haphazard way that grounding was being approached in the field, it became a major issue. Manufacturers had to retest many of their products and provide details on the methods allowed in their manuals. Since adding grounding options to a module required additional testing which was expensive, many manufacturers went the easiest route to get approved. This was not good for products like the WEEB since it now required testing with every module type. In addition, my understanding is that UL has not allowed the WEEB on UL-listed products since the product was not evaluated by UL and they do not have the test data that supports how it was evaluated. That may be the source of the issue with SunPower--you would have to ask them directly. We need a more generic approach to grounding and that is what is currently underway. Grounding and bonding is extremely important and jurisdictions are focused on it for obvious safety reasons. We need solutions that are clearly reliable and straightforward so that installers and jurisdictional authorities don't have to constantly be revisiting the issue. Bill. -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Peter Parrish Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 7:18 AM To: 'RE-wrenches' Cc: 'Christopher Flueckiger'; 'Tim Zgonena' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] The Demise of Reason Bill (and Chris and Tim), Be a little bit more careful in your choice of subjects...? I am shocked, shocked that you would use that tone with me. If you would re-read my post, I talked about three things: (1) SunPower's no longer supporting the WEEB clip technology and regressing to the ILSCO GBL-4DBT. You are right about the insertion of the star washer between the lug and module frame. I wonder what SP's response to that might be... (2) As for SP's comment that they pulled the WEEB clip, due to UL testing changes. Does anyone close enough to the situation know what this means? (3) I never mentioned the SP IFF clip. I mentioned the Tyco SolKlip. SP mentions the IFF in their literature but do not offer it to their dealers (as far as I know), and I haven't been able to find it yet in their product literature, except for a small low-resolution image. I assumed that the Tyco SolKlip was a different component -- however it may be similar or may be
[RE-wrenches] Sunny Backup set
Wrenches, A SMA CD with their 2009-2010 product guide has a Sunny Backup Set listed. It works with grid-battery systems and a genset but I cannot find any US distributors that carry it. Couldn't find it on the SMA-America www site either. Does anyone know about its availability in the US? I'd love to get my hands on the installation manual because it sounds like just what I need for upgrading a battery-grid install from years ago. The owner now wants a 25 kW generator added and the old SMA Gen-Man device seems to have become unavailable too. Any clues would be appreciated. Y'all have a great Labor Day Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy attachment: North Texas Renewable Energy Inc.vcf___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Sunny Backup set
Dick I did email SMA Monday a reply followed your Wrench reply to my inbox this afternoon. As I suspected, they are not [yet] available in the states. It looks as though one Sunny Backup will replace 2 Sunny Islands. Technologically it's par for the course coming from SMA. Maybe they are waiting to move their US supply of SIs. Jim -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]on Behalf Of Richard L Ratico Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 3:03 PM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Sunny Backup set Have you called SMA directly? SMA has other neat stuff that's only available outside the US. Apparently they don't think there's enough demand here to go through the listing process. Dick Ratico Solarwind Electric --- You wrote: Wrenches, A SMA CD with their 2009-2010 product guide has a Sunny Backup Set listed. It works with grid-battery systems and a genset but I cannot find any US distributors that carry it. Couldn't find it on the SMA-America www site either. Does anyone know about its availability in the US? I'd love to get my hands on the installation manual because it sounds like just what I need for upgrading a battery-grid install from years ago. The owner now wants a 25 kW generator added and the old SMA Gen-Man device seems to have become unavailable too. Any clues would be appreciated. Y'all have a great Labor Day Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy --- end of quote --- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Testing LSAs
For the first time since 2004 we got a residential PV red tag for non-listed surge supressors. I just took them off and replaced them after we got the green tag. Of course he also red-tagged the copper ground plate because it was not thick enough. Go figure Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]on Behalf Of Andrew Truitt Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 8:09 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Testing LSAs Question: Since the Delta lightning arrestors are not UL Listed, do they threaten the UL compliance of the PV system as a whole? - Andrew Truitt Currently of Standard Solar Free agent in the Denver area as of 10/6/10 On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 6:02 PM, Peter Parrish peter.parr...@calsolareng.com wrote: I would think that an ohmmeter set to the 10 Mega-ohm setting (or the highest setting possible), would be the first test. I would like to see something on the order of 750 k-ohms (3/4 of a mega-ohm). But the system should be tested at a higher voltage, than that available from a DMM. Apply 240 Vac and measure the RMS current. It should be should be 0.3 mA or less. Finally, these puppies really need to be tested at much higher voltages, perhaps someone knows how to use that megohmmeter to test? What does the manu recommend, “if suspect, throw it away and buy a new one”? - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Kristopher Schmid Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 1:30 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: [RE-wrenches] Testing LSAs What is the best method for testing the integrity of a DC and/or AC lightning surge arrestor? Specifically, i use the Delta LA units. I know they should be replaced if they look Bar-B-Qued, but otherwise...? Thanks, Kris Schmid Legacy Solar 864 Clam Falls Trail Frederic, WI 54837 715-653-4295 sol...@legacysolar.com www.legacysolar.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Don't get me wrong: I love nuclear energy! It's just that I prefer fusion to fission. And it just so happens that there's an enormous fusion reactor safely banked a few million miles from us. It delivers more than we could ever use in just about 8 minutes. And it's wireless! ~William McDonough attachment: North Texas Renewable Energy Inc.vcf___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] roof noise after solar install.
Matt covered about everything but one question's left. Did the homeowner have new decking installed prior to the new 3-tabs? If so, and if they failed to leave a space between the 4x8 sheets of ply or OSB, the heat moisture can cause swelling that can buckle the edges of the wood. It can pull nailheads loose from the plywood edges and rafters. If the metal or plastic spacer clips are visible between sheets from the attic then this is not the problen. Next might be to call Ghostbusters©. Regards Jim Duncan -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]on Behalf Of Darryl Thayer Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 11:59 AM To: gilliga...@gmail.com; RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] roof noise after solar install. Sorry so slow getting back, I put answers int questions Thanks Matt --- On Mon, 8/30/10, Matt Lafferty gilliga...@gmail.com wrote: From: Matt Lafferty gilliga...@gmail.com Darryl, No answers. Just questions in search of answers. Is this a single-layer comp roof? Yes Did the noises begin immediately after the install? YES (as far as I know) Were there any questionable structural issues noted during install? No Is it possible that one or more bolts aren't completely tightened? (Take a good look at your footing to rail connections.)I will look again but it is hard to see under modules) Can you get into the attic and inspect the rafters/trusses? Yes I did (Make sure you don't have a busted rafter) I will double check What was the temperature during install compared to normal daytime highs It was warm, maybe 90F when it's making all this racket? (I've heard of winter-installs making noise during the summer)Just finished the install so summer and summer noises What does it sound like from outside the house? (i.e. is the pitch or tone of the sounds very different) I will listen on Tuesday Can the source of the sound be isolated to one point or region? (i.e. only on the longest rails)not so far What is the temperature range like on the days it's being a nuisance? (i.e. 45-95, or 55-85, etc.) We have typically been 55 at night and 90 during the day ((not roof temperature of course)) Are these jumbo modules? (large modules have greater absolute expansion between attachments than smaller modules) No normal size When you go out there, be prepared to install a pair of expansion splices for each long rail set, but don't expect that to be the silver bullet. Unirac says you only need them every 45 feet. If your situation is under 30', I expect you have another problem. Installation manual here: http://www.unirac.com/pdf/ii908.pdf Pray for silent roofs, Matt Lafferty ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] The Genie Lens
Wrenches And with any Fresnel-type lens, the focal length is very critical. Applying the film directly to the cell would be better than sticking a full sheet onto the glass since glass thickness will vary between module brands. Jim Duncan -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]on Behalf Of Joel Davidson Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 11:36 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] The Genie Lens Wrenches, Rick Lewandowski (founder of SunWize) and his team have been making PV modules with an optical film. See http://www.prismsolar.com/ Prism Solar's primary advantage is less PV cell material lowers cost. How Prism Solar differs from SolOptics: - film is laminated with the cell so it does not get wet, - holographic material is UV stable and is used in extraterrestrial applications, - tests have shown PS holograms degrade less than 0.04% per year compared to silicon cells at 0.5-1% per year, - angular and spectral multiplexed holograms result in cooler running cells and useful light down to 0.25 suns. Rick has worked several years to get Prism Solar ready for primetime. See their video and live test results and tell me what you think. Best regards, Joel Davidson - Original Message - From: Mark Dickson m...@oasismontana.com To: 'RE-wrenches' re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 9:43 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] The Genie Lens They claim that their film should last the 20 year lifespan of the modules. With most warranties at 25 years and modules lasting much longer than that, that claim does not do them much justice. I can't imagine modules will work very well with a tarnished or degrading film on them. Imagine how pissed a customer would be trying to peel that crap off after a few years getting baked in the sun. I am sure the module manus would love to disqualify any warranty claims that came back with this stuff on it. Also, they claim a 4-12.5% increase. Best regards, Mark Dickson, NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer T Oasis Montana Inc. -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Peter Parrish Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 10:17 AM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: [RE-wrenches] The Genie Lens Anybody know anything about these claims? SolOptics, the solar division of Genie Lens, has created a new lens design that improves solar PV performance by 12.5 percent. The new thin-film design can be applied to any PV module, just like a sticker. The new design is created by the company's ray tracing software that embosses microstructures onto thin polymer film. That film can then be applied to solar panels much like tinting film can be applied to a window. In testing, the microstructures in the lens improved PV efficiency by 10 to 12.5 percent. I think the claim of a lens is complete hogwash. As for being an anti-reflective coating, that might work, but reliability would be my concern (UV, heat, moisture). Think how many tinted car windows you have seen with blisters all over them? I am posting this for a client who is a really dedicated solar enthusiast and occasionally emails me with questions about solar technology. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address:
[RE-wrenches] Lightning Protection System
Kelly I'm sure there are other sources of UL certified grounding components but ALT Fabrication is a full service manufacturer and distributor. At one time they offered design services but I'm not sure if that's still available. http://www.altfabrication.com/ Jim Duncan NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer No.31310-57 TECL 27398 North Texas Renewable Energy 486 W.N. Woody Road Azle Texas 76020 Since 1993 nt...@1scom.net 817.917.0527 www.ntrei.com -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]on Behalf Of Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun Wind Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 3:28 PM To: RE Wrenches listserve Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lightning Protection System Hi All, I'm working on the design for a PV Wind power system for a military installation. The specs call for Lightning Protection as follows: Provide a complete lightning protection system with a UL Lightning Protection Inspection Certificate. including, but not necessarily limited to, strike termination devices, conductors, ground terminals, interconnecting conductors, surge suppression devices, and other connectors and fittings required for a complete and usable system. Anyone have an idea of what qualifies? Is there a package product that has the UL Lightning Protection Inspection Certificate? Thanks, -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun Wind Renewable Energy Systems NABCEP Certified PV Installer ke...@whidbeysunwind.com 360.678.7131 attachment: North Texas Renewable Energy Inc.vcf___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Flashings- to nail or not to nail
Nick We not only use roofing nails at the bottom corners of metal flashing but sealant around the top and side edges of the face down side. It keeps potential water seeping from uphill away from the lag penetration[s]. We also seal around every shingle edge we pull up or trim off around the flashing. In the words of Mark Graham Assoc. Executive Dir of the National Roofing Contractors Assoc emphasized in his presentation at the AEE conference in Feb, anything less ...is installing roof leaks. Yep, it's more work than slapping down L-feet, about 5 minutes per standoff start to finish, but metal flashed standoffs are the only way we'll attach PV on 3-tab asphalt roofs. It's often as time consuming finding the rafters as it is mounting the footings and flashing. my $0.02 [compounded over 20 years] Jim Duncan NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer No.31310-57 TECL 27398 North Texas Renewable Energy 486 W.N. Woody Road Azle Texas 76020 Since 1993 nt...@1scom.net 817.917.0527 www.ntrei.com -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]on Behalf Of Nick Soleil Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 9:47 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Flashings- to nail or not to nail HI Wrenches: My crew wants to nail all the flashings on our footings, but I am resisting. Do you guys have any strong feelings about that. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax: 707-769-9037 attachment: North Texas Renewable Energy Inc.vcf___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 3-phase kWh meters
Hialeah Meter has an online catalog and plenty of documentation http://www.hialeahmeter.com/ Jim Duncan NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer No.31310-57 TECL 27398 North Texas Renewable Energy 486 W.N. Woody Road Azle Texas 76020 Since 1993 nt...@1scom.net 817.917.0527 www.ntrei.com -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]on Behalf Of Marco Mangelsdorf Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 4:40 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: [RE-wrenches] 3-phase kWh meters Anyone know where to go for reconditioned 3-phase kWh meters (other than Austin International)? Thanks, marco attachment: North Texas Renewable Energy Inc.vcf___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Bank Off-gassing CO?
Here in a region with a huge percentage of homes having natural gas furnace heaters [with resistance backup,] carbon monoxide fumes are a very real concern. If her house has a NG or oil burning furnace I'd look there for a stuck or mal-adjusted pilot light. If her house is sealed tight, and I'll wager that hers is, the only route for CO out of the basement could be thru the vent for the battery bank. If the house has a positive pressure, that might explain the concentration of CO in the battery room. Even though it's lighter than air it's heaver than H. Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy 486 W.N. Woody Road Azle Texas 76020 Since 1993 NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer No.31310-57 nt...@1scom.net 817.917.0527 www.ntrei.com -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]on Behalf Of Daniel Young Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 8:50 AM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] Battery Bank Off-gassing CO? I was emailed recently by someone in my area saying that she thinks here battery bank is going bad and poisoning her home.. My firm did not install her off grid system. Her original installer will not respond. She has an 6yr old battery bank w/ 6 Trojan L16H's (48V). The system has 1.2kw of shell solar modules with an MX60 CC and FX Inverter. She noticed feeling ill when in the basement where the system electronics were installed, so she got out a combustion gas analyzer, (she is a home energy auditor), and recorded over 500 ppm CO in the battery bank storage closet, not the battery box, but the closet that stores the outback system. That is over double the concentration that the US Consumer Product Safety Commission considers deathly toxic. She reports this has been going on for the last 1-2 months. There is one battery box in this closet, with a 3 PVC vent pipe going up to the roof. There is no power vent. Has anyone heard of a flooded lead acid battery bank emitting CO? I did not think that a lead/sulfur based battery was capable of this. Is it possible that her combustion gas analyzer is mis-interpreting some other gas as CO? We already plan to install a power vent at minimum, and to closely inspect her ventilation system and improve it as needed. Just curious if anyone else has seen this happen before. Thanks, image001.jpgattachment: North Texas Renewable Energy Inc.vcf___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Isofoton modules
Jeff just last November I installed ~3 kW of Isofoton 150/24s that had been on a pallet in the back of the shop for several years. After asking around I found that other Texas installers had only put up a few arrays before the Spanish based company pulled out of the US market altogether. SolarBuzz doesn't even list them, at least under that name. Being a standard 62x31 with 125mm cells should not be difficult to duplicate in appearance. But I suspect that you're out of luck finding more of the Isofoton brand. They promote the microstructured glass design, an idea I was skeptical about at first. However the low-light improvement they claim for the fine textured glass fronts seems to be real. Overcast days production seems noticeably higher than I'd expected. I'm just glad that we still have 2 new spares. Jim Duncan NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer No.31310-57 TECL 2872 North Texas Renewable Energy 486 W.N. Woody Road Azle Texas 76020 Since 1993 nt...@1scom.net 817.917.0527 www.ntrei.com -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]on Behalf Of Jeff Yago Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 5:27 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Isofoton modules We did a 6 kW system 6 years ago using 160 watt, 160 watt modules, and the client recently called back and asked us to add another 4 kW. We no longer install this brand of module and have lost track who in US supplies them. We found them to be well made and look great, but we just started using other brands and slowly moved in other directions. Their web page indicates they have or are building a plant in US, so I assume they are still around, but do not know who is stocking these. We need the 160 watt size to best match the modules already installed, but looks like they have re-worked these to now be 24 volt modules and our original ones were 12 volt (17 Voc), but we can work around that. Any idea? Thanks, Jeff Yago _ Netscape. Just the Net You Need. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org attachment: North Texas Renewable Energy Inc.vcf___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Ideal platform for flooded type batteries: opinionswanted
Mick if you are near a pretty thick edition of the yellow pages, you should be able to find a listing for someone who does plastic vacuum molding or prototype molding. The vacuum mold system is perfect for large non-critically dimensioned and low production custom pieces of plastic. The mold core will be made of wood and shaped like the inside of the battery tray. A sheet of plastic is heated then lowered onto the core and a vacuum pump will draw the plastic tight over the core. A basic tray, or several smaller trays for pairs of cells can be made up pretty inexpensively this way. If it is a size battery type you install often you could probably get a better price for multiple pieces. Here's a shot of a rather sophisticated production vacuum forming machine at work. Smaller shops may have older machines but your needs are not critical. Just be sure to specify the correct type of plactic that will be acid resistant. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL-h0HAcdFAfeature=related Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy 486 W.N. Woody Road Azle Texas 76020 Since 1993 nt...@1scom.net 817.917.0527 www.ntrei.com NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer No.31310-57 *** -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]on Behalf Of Mick Abraham Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 10:22 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ideal platform for flooded type batteries: opinionswanted Hi, Mechanix~ My customer du monde has a dirt floor in the battery space but he's willing to build something on which we could place his wet type batteries. Concrete is strong but it also tends to begin dissolving when battery acid gets on it. Been there, seen that, didn't like it. Wood could be strong but what about the dissolving problem? Would pressure treated wood be better than white wood, redwood etc.? OR: what else would the group advise for a support structure? The above questions assume that whatever we do will probably get wet, but that may be too pessimistic. Could someone give me a mini-review of plastic trays which would protect whatever goes beneath? I'm pretty sure polypropylene is the right type plastic but short of custom welding by a plastic fabricator...where can I find trays which fit OK with floor scrubber type battery case dimensions? Thanks all around, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 attachment: North Texas Renewable Energy Inc.vcf___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] enphase and racks
Wrenches, The front page of the vol 2 #12 issue of Solar Industry magazine is a very candid article on micro inverters, primarily the Enphase. Enphase input directed at installers may differ from their peer review simply because other inverter mfgrs can dissect and test their competitors products to a much more precise degree than you or I. Enphase and other mfgrs makes several recommendations that may influence the installers design/install process, and maybe even the decision whether to use their product. regards Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy Since 1993 817.917.0527 ntrei.com From: Erika M. Weliczko er...@repowersolutions.com Subject: [RE-wrenches] enphase and racks To: 'RE-wrenches' re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: Friday, January 15, 2010, 7:03 PM Any thoughts on which rack hardware is most and least conducive to hosting enphase inverters? TIA, Erika ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering
Has anyone tried a modified drip irrigtation system for battery watering? The calibrated emitters can assure the accurate regulation of water flow. Turn off the pressure and the feed stops. Sounds like a good winter project for the slow season. And we can share the patent rights! Have a long and happy holiday weekend Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy Inc 817.917.0527 nt...@earthlink.net www.ntrei.com All, I'm a little late on this thread, but wanted to give some contrary experience. We have, maybe, 15 BFS watering systems out there, dating back 5 to 6 years. Although I've experienced some issues in getting watering systems set up properly, once they are set I haven't seen a problem develop. Important issues include: - Proper size float must be specified for the battery reservoir size. For larger batteries, especially. If the float is too short it will not shut off soon enough, or allow enough headroom for expansion. - The caps must be carefully tightened, but not too much, as it can be turned past the simple threads (and then be looser). - Make sure when installing the tubing that the cap does not loosen. The base of the cap swivels from the top, but not easily. - We use the garden sprayer method, connected to the system. However, for obvious reasons, we don't recommend leaving it connected. We use an in-line flow wheel to gauge when the batteries are reaching capacity, stop pumping, then disconnect. We use a quick coupling disconnect. - It's important to balance the flow layout, especially with large battery banks. Otherwise, the first cells in line can see higher flow/pressures than the last cells in line, and it can be difficult to fill evenly. Overall, I believe that the benefits of having a battery filling system outweigh the potential problems. As few of our battery systems customers can be said to be enthusiastically, and regularly, engaged with their batteries, I think that a properly working watering system is good insurance toward a healthy bank, and happy customers. Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun Wind, LLC Renewable Energy Systems NABCEP Certified PV Installer 987 Wanamaker Rd, Coupeville, WA 98239 PH FAX 360-678-7131 sunw...@whidbeysunwind.com On 12/9/09 7:06 PM, R Ray Walters r...@solarray.com wrote: I have to highly recommend against Battery FIlling Systems. After 3 years trying to make their products work, we are pulling all watering systems out, and offering full refunds. Some of the caps leaked at only 1 psi of pressure, some overfilled the batteries causing acid spills, and the worst: some caps never filled at all, leaving some cells under filled. Repeated calls to their main contact Rob Source at Battery Filling Systems have gone unanswered. We're back to manual filling as we just haven't found anything reliable enough to deal with this extremely important task. Of 10 service call backs, 8 were problems with BFS products. (and we only made a couple of bucks per cell in the first place) Please avoid this product like the plague! R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Dec 9, 2009, at 7:14 PM, Joel Davidson wrote: Wrenches, We installed 48 each IBE 1-85N-15 cells (24 in series in 2 Direct Power Water battery boxes). We do not want to use Hydrocaps. Your suggestions for an automatic watering system would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance. Happy Holidays. Joel Davidson ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org --- end of quote --- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar System Certification
William I'd be interested in including similar PE fee language in my proposals. If you'd send that I would appreciate it. I have only experienced a similar requirement once. In 2006 I was ordered to include a PE report, to local bldg. code enforcement, on a fairly typical residential PV install. I sent the engineering data that UniRac had online, plus a solid model CAD rendering of the roof with a cutaway view and details. They dropped the requirement for the report and issued a permit. This 2.6 kW system was the first grid-tied permitted install in the service area for Denton Muni Electric, Texas. Later, through the owners persistence, and an invitation for me to speak to city council environmental committee, DME started the first PV rebate program in North Texas on Jan 1 this year. The Wrenches information has been a huge source of good ideas and inspiration to me. I have created a Commissioning Report based on suggestions from other Wrenches. I also bought a Fluke insulation tester and am working on creating a report to document the results of GF testing on future installs. What a great resource this group is! And thanks for your consistent levelheaded input. Best regards Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy Fort Worth Texas - Original Message - From: William Miller To: RE-wrenches Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar System Certification Brian: I looked up the Municipal Codes (http://www.ci.yorba-linda.ca.us/~ci26/how-do-i/get/get-city-codes) and this requirement is right in there. I hope you have a provision in your contract that allows for additional billing for unanticipated engineering fees. Everyone should. If you need language, contact me off line. Fortunately I have never experienced anything like this. This requirement sounds unreasonable. It is sort of like asking an air conditioning contractor to have the air conditioning unit tested in the field. Individual solar components are listed. The combining of the components is facilitated by the manufacturers specifications and on-line sizing tools. Having said that, an amateur can easily screw the design and installation of even the most simple grid-tie system. This provision is the ultimate consumer protection. It sounds onerous at first but does have a benefit. Good luck, and give us a hint how much this certification costs. William Miller At 01:31 PM 12/18/2009, you wrote: I am curious if any of you have had to deal with this issue before. The following is an item we got back from the City of Yorba Linda for a Plan Check correction: All electrical solar systems shall be tested and approved by a California Registered Electrical Engineer. The engineer shall furnish a report stating their name, registration number, its date of expiration, address where the testing occurred and the dates of testing and approval. Such report shall be presented to the City inspector for approval at the time of final inspection. (YLMC 15.28.020) Note on the plans. All experiences and suggestion are appreciated. Best Regards, Brian C. White Design Engineer - PV Systems Eagle Roofing Products 120 North Auburn Street - Suite 212 Grass Valley, CA 95945 Phone: 530-273-2948 Cell: 530-575-5550 e-mail: bri...@eagleroofing.com mailto:bri...@eagleroofing.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.717 / Virus Database: 270.14.113/2573 - Release Date: 12/17/09 23:35:00 Please note new e-mail address and domain: William Miller Miller Solar Voice :805-438-5600 email: will...@millersolar.com http://millersolar.com License No. C-10-773985 -- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings:
[RE-wrenches] Solar System Certification
Well that wasn't supposed to go out to the masses but... So happy holidays anyway. Jim Duncan - Original Message - From: North Texas Renewable Energy Inc To: RE-wrenches Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 8:26 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar System Certification William I'd be interested ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Strings and series of batteries
Petroleum jelly does work as you say to keep oxygen away from the metal surfaces but its melting temperature is relatively low making it not a long-term solution. A device I saw used on an industrial battery bank years ago used a solid brass alloy device. A small oblong plate fits over the battery post, lies flush on the battery case, then the battery cable is attached. A machined brass dome-shaped cover fits snugly over the plate and is attached with small set screws. A grease fitting on the top is where you squirt in special non-corrosive 'grease' until it leaks out around the battery cable opening. If the cable/terminal connection is good tight the connection should not corrode or loosen for a decade or more. The device is no doubt pricey but should last for the life of the bank on a quality installation. I have not ever seen this device advertised, or even thought about it until I read Dicks posting. It sounds like it's worth the investment for an enclosed flooded battery enclosure where fumes will accumulate. Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy Inc 817.917.0527 nt...@earthlink.net www.ntrei.com - Original Message - From: Richard L Ratico richard.l.rat...@valley.net To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Strings and series of batteries Perhaps off topic, it's been said here previously by others, but is worth repeating, good old Vaseline, coating all exposed metal surfaces at battery terminals, totally eliminates the corrosion issue. It's benign, inexpensive and available everywhere. Dick Solarwind Electric --- You wrote: Yes, especially with flooded batteries where the posts are much more subject to corrosion. I am getting too old and decrepit to get out in the field much anymore, but in the past I have seen complete strings basically isolated by bad cross connections, usually (but not always) due to corrosion at the terminals. In extreme instances I have seen cross connect cables totally gone at the cable/lug connection point - nothing but green powder. With multiple batteries and banks, correct cabling and connections become much more important, because they may not show up until too late. With a single series string it is usually obvious if something goes bad, but with multiples not so much. Sometimes you have no choice but to use large strings, but I have seen installations where 60+ 42 amp-hour batteries were strung together, because they were cheap. --- end of quote --- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] wiring the Soladeck
How are folks wiring the Soladeck boxes? I have been wanting to use external mounted threaded MC connectors but cannot find them in stock anywhere. [See below] Having the MC connectors would make attachment a piece of cake. So instead I use one 1/2 NM flex per string which will allow module conductors to terminate in DIN rail terminal blocks. http://www.alliedelec.com/Images/Products/Datasheets/BM/ALTECH_CORP/502-3746.PDF The internal jumpers will connect the separate strings terminal block, a much more positive connection than the standard external jumper with the old style 14-6 AWG lug. Those lugs are usually a poor fit on the smaller gauge wires. Me, I'm taking Thursday off Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy Inc 817.917.0527 nt...@earthlink.net www.ntrei.com attachment: MC.jpg___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] IMO - SS Tek Crews
Self drilling screws are OK for conduit clamps, wire clips and other miscellaneous uses but I would never recommend them for anything structural. Drill points on screws are not going to be accurate nor the drilled holes clean. And threads that cut into those holes won't be strong. Holding strength comes from correct thread mating, it's friction from thread contact that keeps it in place. Look at this spec sheet for 1/4 stainless self-drill screws and you see that it's only 14 threads per inch, not 20. http://www.fastenersuperstore.com/productSheets/SelfDrillingScrew.pdf Self tapping screws, the ones with the 3 sided thread forming ends and hex head are nearly as good as a properly tapped hole in aluminum. A #7 (.201) split-point stub (aircraft) drill will drill thru a 1/4 of aluminum in 1 to 2 seconds without walking. A 1/4-20 screw will cut threads the entire length of the hole and the screw will not come out. In my previous life as a machinist for almost 20 years, a few things have stuck with me like the importance of proper cut threads. Besides, driving home a self-drilling screw will run down drill batteries a lot quicker than a sharp drill bit. my 2cts Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy Inc 817.917.0527 nt...@earthlink.net www.ntrei.com - Original Message - From: jay peltz j...@asis.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 10:18 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SS Tek Crews HI Guys, Check out dynamic fastener, they have a lot of great stuff. Including self drilling 1/4x 20 SS screws and larger. jay peltz power On Oct 23, 2009, at 3:12 AM, Carl Adams wrote: Hello Wrenches, Pulling up this thread from earlier in the year. I have a couple of upcoming jobs where I am attaching PV mounting structure as follows Job 1) LFoot to metal roof into Z purlin, and Job 2) FastJack to metal roof into bar joist. In both of the applications I'm considering the Tek screw type attachment to the building steel. Both the L foot and FastJack are sized for a 5/16 - 3/8 lag or bolt. Most of the self tappers I see are 1/4 max diameter. Should I be concerned about the undersized fit of the fastener in the mounting attachment or are there large Tek type screws out there I'm not finding? Does anyone have pullout strengths for this type of attachment? With Regards Carl Adams NABCEP Certified PV Installer SunRock Solar, LLC On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 6:51 PM, Peter Parrish peter.parr...@calsolareng.com wrote: Does anyone have a source for stainless steel, self tapping Tek screws? I could use some #10/3-4 and #10/1-1/2. If they have the little cap and neoprene washer that would be even better! - Peter Peter T. Parrish, President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Subterranean solar panels
Using Fresnel lens technology, a solar collector surface can concentrate the suns energy into very small areas of 1000W/m ² . You still need to capture enough sunlight [1m²] to get the 1000W in the first place. The lens' are very thin and can be curved which acts like a convex lens over a cluster of fibers. A collector that flares the fibers would align them directly with the lights rays. http://www.fresneltech.com/pdf/VariousArrays.pdf#page=3 Entech is very stingy with pictures of their Si based space and terrestrial PV collectors since it's proprietary. http://www.entechsolar.com/page.php?sid=35 But your'e right, it ain't cheap since NASA was their primary customer for decades. $60/W was never a problem. Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy Inc 817.917.0527 nt...@earthlink.net www.ntrei.com - Original Message - From: Brian Teitelbaum To: RE-wrenches Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 6:48 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Subterranean solar panels A compact optical device would still have to work with the sun's energy at 1000W/square.meter, and even if they could get 20% conversion efficiency (highly unlikely), it would still need to cover an area of more than 5 sq.meters per kW output. Not very compact' Brian Teitelbaum AEE Solar. From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Antony Tersol Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 4:27 PM To: RE-wrenches; RE Marketing for home scale RE industry Subject: [RE-wrenches] Subterranean solar panels Not sure if this should be in markets or wrenches. I'm guessing they don't have a physicist on staff. My first impression is that this is a hoax. Does Photon do any due diligence? From today's Photon electronic newsletter: Subterranean solar panels EarthSure Continues National Expansion with Subterranean Solar Panel System 10.09.2009: EarthSure, a renewable energy company and innovator in alternative energy sources announced today the company's latest patent-pending renewable energy invention. Subterranean Solar, or SubSolarT, is a unique and innovative system of utilizing 'subterranean solar panels to gather solar power. No unsightly above ground solar panels need to be used anymore. This is an enhancement not only in economics and in the green movement, but a great technological improvement in the area of design and construction as well. Currently, solar panels are secured on rooftops or other open spaces. Depending upon the size of the solar module system, this can require large areas of space, and more times than not, this intrudes upon space that can be utilized more efficiently and effectively. In addition, many homeowner associations throughout the United States have banned roof top installations. In light of this, SubSolar panels are installed underneath the ground, virtually invisible to the naked eye. . Source: EarthSure http://www.earth-sure.com and from the website: How Does It Work? A compact optical device is installed upon a rooftop or other sunlight-catching environment. This optical device captures and magnifies the sun's rays and transfers the sunlight from its linear or cylindrical lenses though fiber-optic lines leading down into an underground storage of solar panel modules. The subterranean solar panels are buried approx 3-4 feet underground and are encased in cylindrical tubes or in a semi-hermetically sealed box (or boxes made out of PVC that are in a vacuum chamber atmosphere) which will utilize the ultimate light absorption in the box light vacuum chamber that encapsulates the solar panel modules. Other than the compact optical device, the solar system is practically invisible. This system keeps unsightly panels and fixtures from effecting the aesthetics of homes and commercial or industrial buildings. Always out of sight, but never out of free energy potential! Another benefit of utilizing SubSolarT underground solar panels is that it keeps the equipment out of the elements, elements which can damage the panels and decrease the life span of the equipment. Underground chambers will always stay clean and pristine to aid in better electrical output and eradicate poor performance associated with contaminated modules, making them virtually maintenance free. Also, being under the earth's surface, the solar modules naturally remain cooler, which in turn makes them more productive, preventing overheating for more consistent electrical output
[RE-wrenches] Vertical wall mounted arrays
Wrenches I have a customer building a new 2 story home with a great S-SW exposure but only to the wall that makes up the entire end of the house. The owners want no ground mounted array to preserve the hot, dry, rocky yet beautiful landscape. This will be a pretty straightforward wall mounted, perfectly tilted pair of 30 foot arrays. The big glitch is that they plan on finishing the entire house with natural limestone, Austin stone it's called 'round here. My concern is this; to extend the mounting standoffs 6-7 beyond the rock face and still keep the weight of the array from putting excessive strain on the attachment lag bolts, I need something with a diagonal rib or some other means of bracing the horizontal standoffs supporting the top of each array. Mounting a brace every 48, 3x16 centers, could do the trick but turn into a lot of extra stone work and cost for the mounting BOS. I would prefer fewer but stronger mounting brackets. Bolting completely thru the wall studs is not an option. The actual array tilt and rail hardware will be the Pro Solar Roof track tilt up kits which should hold well for the vertical pulling force as well as it does for its normal horizontal dead-weight strength. Any suggestions would be appreciated. This will be the first wall mounted system I have tried so I want a no-regrets design even if it's a bit overdesigned. thx Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy Inc 817.917.0527 nt...@earthlink.net www.ntrei.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Pitched EPDM Roof Attachment
Carl check out the Unirac Fast Foot. http://www.unirac.com/pdf/fastfoot_install.pdf Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy Inc 817.917.0527 nt...@earthlink.net www.ntrei.com *** - Original Message - From: Carl Adams swingjun...@gmail.com To: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 3:04 PM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Pitched EPDM Roof Attachment Hello Wrenches, I have a job on a 3.5/12 pitched rubber roof. We have 1.5” foam under the EPDM, then the steel decking, then the purlins. Purlin spacing supports adequate attachment points for a conventional rail mounted system. I have 2 questions 1) A typical L-foot attachment to the roof would likely compress the underlying foam and result in divets at each foot. What do you recommend to disperse the load at the point of attachment 2) What type of screw do you recommend for attaching the L-Feet to the purlins With Regards Carl Adams NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer NABCEP Certified Solar Thermal Installer SunRock Solar Cincinnati, Ohio 513.766.6025 www.sunrocksolar.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Installer's grant
We are nearing completion of our own home NW of Fort Worth. We were able to roll the cost of the 2-1350W Wattsun trackers into the mortgage payment. Though we were not able to qualify for anything more than the 30% tax credit, the amoratized cost will more than offset the non-rebate available just across the road in the next county and in the utility rebate service area. As for federal stimulis money that may be available, the State Energy Conservation Office has not announced who will be qualified to receive a portion of that money. I'm not holding my breath Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy Inc 817.917.0527 nt...@earthlink.net www.ntrei.com From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Drake Chamberlin Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 10:50 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Installer's grant Hello Wrenches, I wanted to see how other states are handling solar grants / rebates on the homes of installers. In Ohio there is a grant program that gives $3.00 / Watt toward residential systems. Eligible installers must be approved by the state, and funds are allotted to the installer. In this years program, there is a conflict of interest clause which says that installers, employees of installers and subcontractors of installers are not eligible for any grant funding from the grant received by the installer. It is likely that installers can hire their competition to do installations. Do other states have this conflict of interest clause? Thanks, Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric OH License 44810 CO License 3773 NABCEP TM Certified PV Installer Office - 740-448-7328 Mobile - 740-856-9648 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] S-5 clamps on the standing seam roof
Paul I bid a 21' x 16' PV array on a 1.5:12 standing seam roof using the S-5 PV kits. http://www.s-5.com/clamps/index_686.cfm The seams were 1-1/2 high with a half inch folded lip on top. It seemed like a good idea to mount the modules using the 4-point method you suggest. After clamping a sample S5 to a random rib, I realized the seam, and the attached S5 were not sitting level. After trying several more ribs I realized that all the ribs were leaning slightly. It's not a problem for shedding water but it meant the plane of the module mounting surface was way uneven. I ordered Unirac Lite rails and end clamps, and ate that cost. Once the 16' N-S rails were attached and torqued, three of us grabbed the one piece rail near the ends and in the middle and after several heave-ho's managed to bend the ribs to align pretty close to flat across the rail tops. We checked with a carpenters level across each pair of rails to be sure. The were close enough that tightening the module clamps didn't have to pull the rails into a proper alignment. We then went back and re-torqued all the clamping screws and retightened the hex bolts on the assumption that they probably loosened while being man handled. Using the S5's alone would have been a huge chore trying to straighten the steel ribs, was the lesson learned. It was also easier to adjust and level the height of the rails using the L-foot slots as opposed to the jam nuts on each individual S5. The MetlSpan ribs seem to be the same style and are mechanically crimped during installation. I suspect they will have the same issues. Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy Inc 817.917.0527 nt...@earthlink.net www.ntrei.com - Original Message - From: Paul Lyons To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 5:32 PM Subject: [RE-wrenches] S-5 clamps on the standing seam roof Hello RE-Wrenches - We are working on the design details for S-5 clamps on a standing seam roof with the PV modules mounted directly on the clamps at four points (i.e. no horizontal rails). The roof is made by Metl Span of Lewisville, Texas. The building is in New England and the roof has a slope of 0.5:12 Have any of you had experience with these clamps and/or this particular roof manufacturer? Paul Lyons, P.E. Zapotec Energy Inc. 675 Massachusetts Ave Cambridge, MA 02139-3309 Tel: 617-547-5900 ext.201 Fax: 617-547-5901 Mobile: 617-285-0634 Email: ly...@zapotecenergy.com -- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Helix Wind
The name Helix made me recall another VAWT company by that same name [?] that offered a nearly identical device except that it's helical flutes were covered with PV cells. Really. A 2006 PV customer with an excellent wind friendly ridge-top home sent me the link which I can't find. They just never give up. Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy Inc 817.917.0527 nt...@earthlink.net www.ntrei.com - Original Message - From: Keith Cronin To: RE-Wrenches Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 1:01 PM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Helix Wind http://www.helixwind.com/en/index.php Anyone have any feedback on these? Thanks -- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Broken Modules
Doug I've had several incidences with unusable modules, 1 with hidden forklift damage, 1 with visible hot-spots on ribbon junctions bubbles on the back Tedlar surface. Then the one I leaned on in the middle of the top frame and shattered. That one I ate. All three modules went to a technical college near here with a 2 year PV tech program, for further study, autopsy or whatever. All still put out near full power and, I presume, will continue to if kept dry. It's a good first-hand look at what can go wrong with a PV install and a much better use of mods than recycling, or refurbishing, them. Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy Inc 817.917.0527 nt...@earthlink.net www.ntrei.com - Original Message - From: Doug Wells dwe...@thesolarspecialists.com To: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 8:32 AM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Broken Modules Wrenches, I am curious what other installers are doing with broken modules? I know some manufacturers are starting recycling programs. Doug Wells The Solar Specialists Morrisville, VT 05661 (p) 802-223-7014 (c) 802-498-5856 www.thesolarspecialists.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Surge protector update?
It was at the combiner below the ground mounted array and 50-60 feet from the inverter. Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy Inc 817.917.0527 nt...@earthlink.net www.ntrei.com - Original Message - From: boB Gudgel b...@midnitesolar.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:53 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Surge protector update? North Texas Renewable Energy Inc wrote: August I made a service call to a residential PVinstallation several years ago that I did not install. The vintage Trace, size I don't recall, had quit working. The Delta surge suppressor had actually ruptured along it's radial seam, a result I had always heard indicates a surge being absorbed. Do you know if the Delta was placed at the array, or near the inverter ?? Was most likely installed at the array ? Thanks, boB The inverter went to the nearest authorized repair shop, a marine maintenance facility near Houston. The only problem was a cooked internal fusible link which was replaced free of charge. The array was undamaged. There's no way of knowing how close the lightning strike was but the Delta worked as it was intended. It's the only experience I can relate first-hand I'm happy to say. It will be interesting to hear what sort of results you come up with. Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy Inc 817.917.0527 nt...@earthlink.net www.ntrei.com --- Original Message - From: August Goers aug...@luminalt.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 9:21 AM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Surge protector update? Wrenches - Anyone have experience with lighning hitting an array with a surge protector installed? What happened? I'm Here's an ad, point number 5 mentions that the surge protectors installed in the array combiner box protects solar modules and blocking diodes... http://www.citel.us/dc_surge_protection_overview2.html I'm trying to gather a firm opinion on whether they are a complete waste of $$$ and time or not. Good grounding seems I would guess is the best protection. -August ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Surge protector update?
August I made a service call to a residential PVinstallation several years ago that I did not install. The vintage Trace, size I don't recall, had quit working. The Delta surge suppressor had actually ruptured along it's radial seam, a result I had always heard indicates a surge being absorbed. The inverter went to the nearest authorized repair shop, a marine maintenance facility near Houston. The only problem was a cooked internal fusible link which was replaced free of charge. The array was undamaged. There's no way of knowing how close the lightning strike was but the Delta worked as it was intended. It's the only experience I can relate first-hand I'm happy to say. It will be interesting to hear what sort of results you come up with. Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy Inc 817.917.0527 nt...@earthlink.net www.ntrei.com --- Original Message - From: August Goers aug...@luminalt.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 9:21 AM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Surge protector update? Wrenches - Anyone have experience with lighning hitting an array with a surge protector installed? What happened? I'm Here's an ad, point number 5 mentions that the surge protectors installed in the array combiner box protects solar modules and blocking diodes... http://www.citel.us/dc_surge_protection_overview2.html I'm trying to gather a firm opinion on whether they are a complete waste of $$$ and time or not. Good grounding seems I would guess is the best protection. -August ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] CBI circuit breakers
Solar Pros, I've had real reservations about using traditional bus-type combiners that fit 2/0 down to #10 awg wires. They are almost always a poor fit and electrical connection for smaller gauge wires. A neat solution I found to make 100% contact with all screw-type connectors, I started using a bootlace ferrule on the wire ends. The thinwall copper/tin sleeve will crimp easily onto the wire and is easily compressed into a form matching the connector jaws. I use it exclusively on DIN rail type terminal blocks and would use it on larger wires #10 but the Paladin 4-jaw crimper only goes up to #10. The internal jumper makes an excellent connection to any number of dist blocks using threaded rather than compression connections. Alliedelec.com 400-0144 ferrule 889-1441 crimper 502-3240 internal jumper 502-3744 terminal blk Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy Inc 817.917.0527 nt...@earthlink.net www.ntrei.com - Original Message - From: d...@foxfire-energy.com To: RE-wrenches Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 6:17 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] CBI circuit breakers The only problem I've had with them is that their connectors can allow multi stranded wire to broom out, (after installation) -- causing a loose / high resistance contact. I've learned to torque / wiggle twist and retorque all multi strand connections. I have had one side of a 60A QO breaker go open out of the blue. db Dan Brown President Foxfire Energy Corp. Renewable Energy Systems (802)-483-2564 www.Foxfire-Energy.com NABCEP #092907-44 Original Message Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] CBI circuit breakers From: Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com Date: Mon, July 27, 2009 1:36 am To: 'RE-wrenches' re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org I have had no problems to date, Kent. Can you be more specific as to what problems you have had? Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com -Original Message- Is it just me, or have other wrenches had problems with the CBI circuit breakers used in the Outback or Midnite combiner boxes? Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar, Inc. http://www.bluemountainsolar.com/ ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org attachment: DIN.jpg___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Re; We're all out of a job now
I guess for every few hundred goofy ideas, a good one comes along. http://www.ted.com/talks/john_la_grou_plugs_smart_power_outlets_1.html Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy Inc 817.917.0527 nt...@earthlink.net www.ntrei.com - Original Message - From: William Miller To: RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 11:53 AM Subject: [RE-wrenches] We're all out of a job now Colleagues: Bad news. The secret is out: http://click-4-the.info/09/1/magnetic-power William Miller Please note new e-mail address and domain: William Miller Miller Solar Voice :805-438-5600 Fax: 805-438-4607 email: will...@millersolar.com http://millersolar.com License No. C-10-773985 -- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Hardware request
Allan not a specific solution to your design issue but something to consider. I needed 6 pieces of aluminum to cover the narrow gaps between 2 PV modules on a skylight array installation. I stopped at a mfgr of custom skylights and windows and asked to search their cutoff/scrap bin. I found exactly the T configuration of aluminum extrusion I needed and paid the owner wholesale, plus he cut 'em to length free. They had dozens of styles and shapes though many were short pieces, I found just the thing. the end Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy Inc 817.917.0527 nt...@earthlink.net www.ntrei.com - Original Message - From: Allan Sindelar To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 1:01 AM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Hardware request Wrenches, We have an unusual roof application. It's for a roof-mount array on a commuter rail station canopy in Santa Fe. The roof is made up of a coated corrugated steel top layer, in the shape of a series of sine waves, over roofing felt, 5/8 plywood sheathing, and a corrugated metal base called Epicore. The array will be one long single row of modules in portrait mode on Solarmount rails. I'm leaving out some details in order to get to the point. We intend to base our mounting of the rails on a through-bolt mounting attachment, using threaded rod with the necessary nuts, washers, and sealant layers to create a compressed sandwich approach. The corrugated top layer has peaks and troughs of about 1½ radius. We'll use L-feet to mount the module rails to the through-bolts, which will likely be made from 5/16 or 3/8 threaded rod (size to be determined as we work out the details at the site). We will drill through the troughs of the corrugations, rather than the peaks, to avoid compressing the corrugated roofing; drilling the troughs has the project engineer's approval. What we need is something like half-round anodized aluminum or powder-coated steel stock material. The idea is that the convex round profile fills the corrugated trough, and the flat surface forms a base for the L-foot. We would expect to cut the stock to lengths, say 4-6, drill one hole through the center cross-section for our through-bolt, and mount the sections in the troughs, one at each through-bolt location. What product, likely used in some other industry or manufacturing process, would work for our half-round stock? The job isn't big enough to justify a custom extrusion - we probably need two dozen of the finished pieces. Thank you for any ideas, Allan Sindelar, Positive Energy -- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Wrenches attending AEE Dealer Conference?
I'll be there David. Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy Inc 817.917.0527 nt...@earthlink.net www.ntrei.com - Original Message - From: David Palumbo d...@independentpowerllc.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Wrenches attending AEE Dealer Conference? Anyone else attending the AEE dealer conference next week in Mesa, AZ? David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 NABCEP Certified PV Installer www.independentpowerllc.com 802-888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Professional Consulting
Well guess I wasn't complete in my definition of a site survey. I also inspect the roof and rafter structure, the existing electrical service condition, do the shade analysis, and create a design and issue a proposal. That's the real goal to offer an installed cost. It's all included in the price. I suppose you could say the customers education is secondary, really unnecessary if I was just being a salesman. Jim Duncan - Original Message - From: Joel Davidson To: RE-wrenches Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Professional Consulting Hello Jim, If I understand correctly, you charge a consultant fee to teach a client about site selection and other subjects. You also provide information about your product/service to a prospect as part of the sales process. Some of the reasons why opinions differ about charging a site survey fee are: competitor do it for free, how detailed is the information, how much time and expense the information costs or is worth, what the market will bear, etc. Let's say you sell cars. You have to give product information and instructions during the sales process even if you sell conventional cars. If you sell high performance cars or electric vehicles, you have to give more information so the prospect can make an informed buying decision. You may even have to take the prospect to a track and teach him or her how to drive the car before they can make a buying decision, thus blurring the line between teaching and selling. The same distinction can occur with consulting and prescribing physicians, but most people pay their general practitioner for both services. I think it is important to clearly distinguish consulting from selling. Offering a consultant fee refund to clients who buy PV from you can be an attractive incentive. I tell my consultant clients that I will not sell them PV, but they are welcome to buy it from me or from anyone else. Some buy from me; some buy from other vendors; some do not buy at all. BTW - I think selling is part the nuts-and-bolts of running a business as compared to marketing which has a broader definition. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marketing But I'm ok with it if Michael or other wrenches think selling practices and professional conduct should roll over to RE-Marketing. Joel Davidson - Original Message - From: North Texas Renewable Energy Inc To: RE-wrenches Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 9:01 AM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Professional Consulting Joel wrote: 3 goals. or they can pay me a consultant fee to teach them I assume that every Site Survey must include a basic education on the fundamentals of PV. This includes mythbusting and re-education. It helps that most clients are genuinely interested in learning more before they decide to invest. I have based my 'consultation' on that goal and have a 3 ring binder/flipchart with a multitude of photos, charts, graphs, important quotes etc that I can refer to to emphasize a point. The handful of incentive providers in Texas, just like the ITC, offer almost no guidelines to potential customers for choosing a quality installer, unlike the California program. I have seen numerous examples of poor PV installations already in this still infant market and documented many. I have pictures describing bad installation practices in the binder and emphasize them. So I consider my face time spent to be valuable to both the client and me. So the question I have mulled over for some time is, do I continue to charge a one-time fee for this service? It's refunded upon closing a deal. Discussions on this site, in the past, seem to be divided. While increased competition may lean away from the practice of charging a fee, the educational value justifies one. I'll assume I'm one of several quotes and I want to be remembered as the one that was the most informative and helpful. Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy Inc 817.917.0527 nt...@earthlink.net www.ntrei.com -- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re
Re: [RE-wrenches] NY Times: 25% price reduction on PV
-10% to -14% Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy Inc 817.917.0527 nt...@earthlink.net www.ntrei.com - Original Message - From: Nicholas Ponzio npon...@buildingenergyus.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 8:41 AM Subject: [RE-wrenches] NY Times: 25% price reduction on PV Take notice: Today's NY Times quotes Rhone Resch of SEIA as saying The price of solar panels has fallen by 25 percent in six months. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/04/business/04windsolar.html What kind of $/W are people getting these days? -- Nicholas Ponzio Building Energy 1570 South Brownell Road Williston, VT 05495 t: 802-859-3384 x15 f: 802-658-3982 www.BuildingEnergyVT.com Building Solutions for a Sustainable Future ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] dpw top of pole mount pipe problems
Filling the pipe with concrete would strengthen it quite a bit but will also cause condensation on the outside during a lot of the year. Did I mention that pouring concrete from a half full 5 gallon pail while on a ladder is a real pain. Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy Inc 817.917.0527 nt...@earthlink.net www.ntrei.com - Original Message - From: r...@solar4maine.com To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 10:40 AM Subject: [RE-wrenches] dpw top of pole mount pipe problems Wrenches i have a customer that wanted to install a dpw top of pole mount for 18 sharp 180 watt panels. he installed his own pipe and even after several reminders by me and a signed contract stating shcedule 80 8 inch steel pipe he installed a 8 inch cast iron water main. My dilemma is this he claims to wave my liability in this install but he has been a very high maintnence customer and seems to forget everything we talk about or he signs. so would you go ahead with the install or is the cast iron going to shear off and the rack fall over? financially i have met my obligations with the customer i can wave the labor cost and tell him to find someone else at this point if need be i dont want to be liable for spilling 18 panels on the ground and my insurance wouldnt cover it as we went against dpw's recomendations -- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Galvanic compatibility of commonly used solarmaterials
i have seen fast corrosion of copper on galvanized So as long as we're speculating, how about bare copper grounding conductors in EMT, is the coating on/inside conduit simply your common molten zink plating or does it contain a nickle or some other alloy to inhibit the eventual copper corrosion? Zincs anodic rating is down there with aluminum on the scale. Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy Inc 817.917.0527 nt...@earthlink.net www.ntrei.com Hi Wrenches, I'm wondering what types of experiences you folks have with galvanic corrosion. As we all know, racking and ground systems commonly use copper, aluminum, steel, etc. which may or may not be compatible with each other. There's the theory: http://www.engineersedge.com/galvanic_capatability.htm and then there's real life experience. I have first hand experience with aluminum lay in lugs used to bond modules corroding and turning to powder. We all know to use tin coated copper lugs for module and racking grounding. However, I see bare copper ground wires run over all sorts of different metals and I wonder what issues might pop up in the long haul. How well does bare copper hold up when it is touching anodized aluminum? What about copper and hot dipped strut? How do you run bare ground wire when you're connecting multiple arrays separated from each other? Has anyone seen issues arising between steel and aluminum racking parts? I'm looking forward to seeing what types of field experiences you have seen. Best, August August Goers Luminalt Energy Corporation O: 415.564.7652 M: 415.559.1525 F: 650.244.9167 www.luminalt.com aug...@luminalt.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Utility data monitoring....
Wrenches I was looking at the Global Spec newsletter in my inbox before I deleted it when a picture of a kW hr meter caught my eye. I followed the link to http://www.enetics.com/ to see what their PowerNode Recorders were all about. After an inquiry to Enetics support staff , a quick reply told me two things: 1.. This PowerNode Recorder would do a dandy job of short or long term monitoring a utility source, hz, V and A, at the customers utility-grade meter (see below) 2.. I cannot justify the price quite yet Maybe if we all chipped in Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy Inc 817.917.0527 nt...@earthlink.net www.ntrei.com Hello Jim, We recently installed a PowerNode for exactly that application. The homeowner has 2 inverters, plus grid power of course. The meter recorder has 4 voltage channels and 4 current channels; so we run Grid L1 to channel 1, Grid L2 to channel 2, Inverter 1 to channel 3, and Inverter 2 to channel 4. The PV inverters are 240 volt, so we route one wire through the channel CT in the '+' direction and the other PV wire through the same CT in the opposite or '-' direction. This gives us the TOTAL PV current (and therefore kW) for both legs of the PV. All of these channels are recorded, stored, and registered separately. Our reports are all in MS Excel format so the homeowner just gets his net meter values numerically in Excel. If you wanted to see live net metered values in the meter, again, we just route the load wires through the Grid Cts so that the PV nets out against the Grid. Everything is sychronous because the PVs are phase-locked to the grid. Hope this helps. Let me know if I can answer anything else. Regards, Bill Bush 585-924-5010 -Original Message- From: North Texas Renewable Energy Inc [mailto:nt...@earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 4:04 PM To: supp...@enetics.com Subject: PowerNode Recorders After looking at the PowerNode Recorders on the Globalspec www site, I have a question. Say I install a grid interactive solar PV system on a customers home and the 120/240 AC output side of the inverter feeds through a customer owned form S2 meter then onto the utility service entrance thru the main breaker and back onto the grid. Can the PowerNode Recorder distinguish between inverter generated power being backfed and utility power feeding inbound? Does the instrument record those different inflow and outflow on separate registers? Thanks Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy Inc 817.917.0527 nt...@earthlink.net www.ntrei.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 120VAC-24VAC - 5 20VA transformers
I recall that the Wattsun trackers use a 120-24 switching power supply. They are rated at 5A as used on those big tracker drives but the mfgrs www site had a wide selection of sizes. http://www.wattsun.com/pdf/Wattsun_Controller_Power_Supply_Considerations.pdf Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy Inc 817.917.0527 nt...@earthlink.net www.ntrei.com - Original Message - From: Dana To: RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 4:59 PM Subject: [RE-wrenches] 120VAC-24VAC - 5 20VA transformers Hey there All - I am looking for a wholesale source for 5 watt 20 watt 120VAC to 24VAC transformers, I need them for providing power for Tekmar controllers. Thanks - Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc www.solarwork.com E - d...@solarwork.com V - 970.626.5253 F - 970.626.4140 C - 970.209.4076 I'd put my money on solar energy. I hope we don't have to wait 'til oil and coal run out before we tackle that. -Thomas Edison, in conversation with Henry Ford and Harvey Firestone, March 1931 -- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] NFS3 (or is it nsf?)
There was a similar piece on the local NPR affiliates news about a month ago. The cleaning compound in question was one that is not regulated as a harmful substance by the EPA. (Boy I feel better now) However the semiconductor industry, as a whole, has been looking for a substitute that is more environmentally friendly without increasing costs. Whether it's a proactive attempt to green up the manufacturing process or heading off a federal mandate to replace it I don't know. Either way, manufacturers everywhere seem to be anticipating tougher environmental laws over the next 4 years and are beginning to squirm. Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy Inc 817.917.0527 nt...@earthlink.net www.ntrei.com - Original Message - From: hol...@sbcglobal.net To: RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 2:06 PM Subject: [RE-wrenches] NFS3 (or is it nsf?) Excuse my ignorance... there was an article in Sunday's Dallas Morning News about solar panels causing greenhouse gases due to nsf3 (nfs?) used in cleaning contacts during manufacturing. Paper already on way to recycle bin, can't bring it up on their website. Can anyone enlighten me so as to have bullets to shoot down this latest round of uninformed reporting? Holt E. Kelly Holtek Fireplace Solar Products 500 Jewell Dr. Waco,Tx. 76712 254-751-9111 254-228-9621 (cell) hol...@sbcglobal.net www.holteksolar.com -- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Sample Power Purchase Agreements
I could not find anything on their www site about their PPA overview http://www.stoel.com/. Is an e-copy available or just the printed version? thanks Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy Inc 817.917.0527 nt...@earthlink.net www.ntrei.com From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Randy Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 10:23 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Sample Power Purchase Agreements Carl, At Solar Power 2008, Stoel Rives, a law firm had a booth and they were giving out a free workbook guide on PPA terms and conditions. They also offered this publication on their website which I downloaded, but I couldn't find the link just now. So, if you would like the guide let me know offline and I will send it to you. Good luck. Randy Randy Sadewic Positive Energy ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Outback PSR-SCT
Todd et.al. Look in the yellow pages for a manufacturer of Prototype Injection Molds. These guys are set up to manufacturer short runs of molded plastic parts. They often use the vacuum-form process to make simple plastic shapes, usually not close tolerance pieces. A battery tray would be a perfect job and built exactly to your specs. If you use a lot of the same size cells, you may want to consider a single or double tray-per-cells arrangement. The initial setup cost will be lower for a small tray, say 9 X 14, and by buying a lot of them, the mold-maker is happy to give a lower unit cost and will spend less time on the setup. As always, any molded part will be tapered so start big with your dimensions and go smaller. It's a lot easier to take a little material off the sides of the mold core compared to putting it back on. Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy Inc 817.917.0527 nt...@earthlink.net www.ntrei.com I was just informed I can no longer get the Outback PSR-SCT (spill containment tray). What are others using in their battery boxes for spill containment? Todd -- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Retail sales and other issues
Thanks for staying on top of this Jeff Here are the other questions ... 1. Do you have some type of retail store or public display area in addition to your installation work? No, from home. But we're about to build a new rural house with a separate dedicated building to lease to NTREI. 2. If so, do you offer parts like inverters, charge controllers, or hard-to-find solar hardware, or only sell turn key systems? Only design install PV. Occasionaly make sales to diy's businesses. 3. Do you purchase factory direct for most items or from one of the main whole-sellers? Buy 90% from established distributors, DC Power, AEE, Sunwize but sometimes Kyocera. 4. If you also sell retail parts or other over the counter solar items, what percent mark-up do you try for, or do you just sell at manufacturer's suggested retail price? n/a 5. Do you have a web site that includes a basket for selling these solar items, or do you have a web site that lists complete systems with pricing, or just an informational web site? no 6. Have you sold enough systems of similar size to start offering packaged pricing for typical system sizes, or are you still quoting each specific job based on a job specific bill of material? The latter but I'm working to create packages 7. Do you warehouse larger quantities of modules and inverters, or order for each project with just a few items on hand? I order per job but keep some BOS items in stock, disconnects, wire, the usual fittings and hardware so we're not having to run to the elec supply house more than once 8. Have you had problems with credit cards being back-charged or voided after shipment, and if you have, how did you reduce this problem? Don't yet have the volume to justify CCs 9. Have you had modules or inverters damaged in shipment, and has this ever happened and not be discovered until after acceptance of delivery? Pallet of PV with forklift damage not discovered till after delivery. Inverters (2) with minor, field reparible problems, out of the box. Always received prompt service from PVP. 10. What advertising have you found to be the most cost effective? I have yet to find a good local source to advertise since there are no concentrated target markets. I use national magazines, HP etc. Thanks, A summary of all replys will be added to the contract terms we are completing and distributed to all in a format you can cut and paste as needed. Jeff Yago,P.E., CEM NABCEP Certified DTI Solar email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Netscape. Just the Net You Need. -- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] (no subject)
Wrenches I'm proposing a ground mounted PV installation that will have the usual exposed DC conductors and so need to be secured into a raceway of some sort. I stumbled across this Thomas Betts cable tying system which looked like it would work well for neatly securing long straight runs of one or more conductors attached behind a raceway or inside the module frame. Has anyone tried this method of mounting long or short wire runs? The Deltec plastic is rated as very good UV resistance. TB Part numbers are TCP5255, TYDLH, TYD50R http://www-public.tnb.com/shared/inst/ta00903-tb2.pdf Thanks as always Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy Inc 817.917.0527 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ntrei.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] (no subject)
August, One can use the SS tie wraps instead of the 1/2 wide Deltec strap. Regardless, what appeals to me is the way the spacers hold the conductors tight so they don't sag, keep them concealed behind the raceway. I'll let you know. Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy Inc 817.917.0527 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ntrei.com Jim - I haven't used the Thomas Betts product you found but we've had excellent results with the Wiley Acme Cable Clip found here: http://www.we-llc.com/ACC.html We use these clips on all our installations these days and it has allowed us to get almost completely away from zip ties. I don't trust zip ties over the long haul. Let us know what you think of the Thomas Betts product if you end up using it. -August ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] State licensing for PV installers in Texas
Re: [RE-wrenches] State licensing for PV installers in TexasFor licensed electricians in the TX, no addition certification is required to install solar And the Electricians will be required to earn a whopping 8 hours of solar-specific continuing education for state licensed electricians who wish to design, permit and install PV systems. Heck I get more than 8 hours a year just attending conferences and training. ECs will totally qualify as a PV installer with 8 Hours. Jim Duncan - Original Message - From: David Brearley To: RE-wrenches Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:04 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] State licensing for PV installers in Texas Is the regular license in AZ an electrical license? For licensed electricians in the TX, no addition certification is required to install solar. The challenge we face is that most solar electric installers in the state do not have an electrical license. In fact, it's not so long ago that there was no state licensing period. Licensing was all done at the local level, at the city level. On 10/29/08 5:53 PM, Wind-sun.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Arizona seems much more sensible, the solar license is just an add on certification to your regular license. .. Northern Arizona Wind Sun - Electricity From The Sun .. - Original Message - From: Bob Maynard mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: RE-wrenches mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 2:50 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] State licensing for PV installers in Texas Jim, In Oregon we have a Limited Renewable Energy Technician license. We are capped at 25kw and can do residential and commercial. The LRT license does not allow us to make final AC connections on any system and requires a site visit from an electrician. Regards, Bob Maynard -- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] State licensing for PV installers in Texas
Re: [RE-wrenches] State licensing for PV installers in TexasTraditionally the final connection at the bus bar is what they are needed to perform. I'll defer to them. They worked hard for that privilege. Jim - Original Message - From: David Brearley To: RE-wrenches Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:10 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] State licensing for PV installers in Texas A licensed electrician might point out that the utility grid is not current limited. On 10/29/08 5:05 PM, North Texas Renewable Energy Inc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also to elaborate, The Texas license will restrict any work on the AC side of the inverter by anyone but a State licensed Electrical Contractor. I am stating, in a reply (to the group working on the language) since the inverter AC output is current-limited by design, from a safety perspective the DC side could be considered as or more dangerous than the AC side. Is this statement a valid one? Jim - Original Message - From: Bob Maynard mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: RE-wrenches mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 4:50 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] State licensing for PV installers in Texas Jim, In Oregon we have a Limited Renewable Energy Technician license. We are capped at 25kw and can do residential and commercial. The LRT license does not allow us to make final AC connections on any system and requires a site visit from an electrician. Regards, Bob Maynard VP NW Distribution Sales groSolar What the World Needs. NOW 535 NE Westbrook Way Grants Pass, OR 97526 Direct: 541.291.4044 TollFree: 800.467.6527 x4044 Fax: 541.476.7480 Mobile: 541.761.1636 groSolar.com http://www.grosolar.com/ http://blog.groSolar.com http://blog.grosolar.com/ North America's Premier Installer, Distributor and Integrator of Solar Energy Solutions Distributor for Evergreen Solar, Suntech Power, SMA, Fronius, PV Powered, Outback Power, GridPoint, UniRac, Heliodyne SHW and other premier renewable energy products From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of North Texas Renewable Energy Inc Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 2:45 PM To: RE Wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] State licensing for PV installers in Texas Wrenches the Texas Dept of Licensing and Regulation has (finally) proposed a Limited Solar Electric License for installers in Texas. There is currently no solar license in Texas. Among other fairly arbitrary and borderline ridiculous potential requirements (IMHO) is a 50 kWDC cap on the size of systems allowed, based on inverter rated output. Also the license holder may not work on commercial installations. Are these typical of the license restrictions in other states? thanks Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy Inc 817.917.0527 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ntrei.com http://www.ntrei.com -- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
Re: [RE-wrenches] State licensing for PV installers in Texas
It seems odd, in Texas we are considered a right-to-work state, unions are not a powerful entity as in a number of other states. You will find most Union Electricians, at least here in the North Texas area, work for cities and larger corporations. Due to the huge military-aerospace industry in Fort Worth and Dallas most large mil-contractors (think Lockheed Martin) only use Union workers. This includes Electricians. From this perspective, I don't see a lot of union power concentrated in Texas. But the IEC is very active in the balance of the state among retail and commercial scale Electrical Contractors. So I guess I don't understand the caution by TREIA in their dealings with the unions. Bob's right, there is plenty of work for everybody. So is the Texas union lobby being coached by IBEW members from outside the state? I guess considering the history of unions in the US I would not be surprised to see a power grab. Jim Duncan - Original Message - From: Bob Maynard To: RE-wrenches Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:47 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] State licensing for PV installers in Texas We had a lot of resistance from the unions. I remember testifying before a Senate hearing and there were just three of us from the industry speaking for the creation of the license. The unions had at least 6 paid lobbyists speaking against it. In the end we prevailed when a Senator asked the union lobbyists for specific details of their renewable energy training programs and they had none in place! To help bring peace, we put together a 10kw project with the local utility to be installed on the State Capitol. We handed it to the unions to install and coordinated it with a professional pv training course. The thing to remember is this industry is going to grow so fast, there will not be enough solar electricians to do all the work and we need the manpower of the traditional electrical industry to help deploy all the solar yet to be installed! Regards, Bob Maynard VP NW Distribution Sales groSolar What the World Needs. NOW 535 NE Westbrook Way Grants Pass, OR 97526 Direct: 541.291.4044 TollFree: 800.467.6527 x4044 Fax: 541.476.7480 Mobile: 541.761.1636 groSolar.com http://blog.groSolar.com North America's Premier Installer, Distributor and Integrator of Solar Energy Solutions Distributor for Evergreen Solar, Suntech Power, SMA, Fronius, PV Powered, Outback Power, GridPoint, UniRac, Heliodyne SHW and other premier renewable energy products From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of North Texas Renewable Energy Inc Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:17 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] State licensing for PV installers in Texas Having watched enviously for years as other states put PV incentive programs into place, I have seen the opposition from the electrical unions and large electrical contractors, especially in California. What sort of friction did Oregons licensing procedure experience compared to California? Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy Inc 817.917.0527 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ntrei.com -- - Original Message - From: Bob Maynard To: RE-wrenches Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 4:50 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] State licensing for PV installers in Texas Jim, In Oregon we have a Limited Renewable Energy Technician license. We are capped at 25kw and can do residential and commercial. The LRT license does not allow us to make final AC connections on any system and requires a site visit from an electrician. Regards, Bob Maynard VP NW Distribution Sales groSolar What the World Needs. NOW 535 NE Westbrook Way Grants Pass, OR 97526 Direct: 541.291.4044 TollFree: 800.467.6527 x4044 Fax: 541.476.7480 Mobile: 541.761.1636 groSolar.com http://blog.groSolar.com North America's Premier Installer, Distributor and Integrator of Solar Energy Solutions Distributor for Evergreen Solar, Suntech Power, SMA, Fronius, PV Powered, Outback Power, GridPoint, UniRac, Heliodyne SHW and other premier renewable energy products From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of North Texas Renewable Energy Inc Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 2:45 PM To: RE Wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] State licensing for PV installers in Texas Wrenches the Texas Dept of Licensing and Regulation has (finally) proposed a Limited Solar Electric License for installers in Texas. There is currently no solar license in Texas. Among other fairly arbitrary and borderline ridiculous potential requirements (IMHO) is a 50 kWDC cap on the size
