Re: [RE-wrenches] Hidden freight damage
Hey Luke, Was it Saia?? We have had 2 claims this season as well. Similar fork issue. One was a transfer from Saia to another freight company to us. According to the driver, it arrived that morning damaged on the dock and they are obliged to deliver it regardless. The other directly from Saia. One claim closed, and the other I believe is still open. I think the distributor had a bit of leverage with the shipper as to how it is handled. We did catch it, and documented it with pics. The other was completely concealed as the fork damaged the pallet from below. Even if we unwrapped the shipment, you couldn't notice the damage until you lifted the bottom module. Good lesson from ole Murphy I guess. I just got hyper vigilant on inspection, and noticing which shipper is bringing the damaged goods... On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 9:47 AM, Luke Christy sgsrenewab...@gmail.comwrote: Wrenches, We have been in business for about 8 years, and up until now, the shipping gods have smiled upon me, but apparently my luck has run out, as I've had 2 costly shipping nightmares within a month, and I'm just wondering what other Wrenches have done to protect themselves from the liability involved in trusting expensive shipments to the freight carriers. Here's my situation: I recently had a pallet of modules shipped, and it arrived with multiple broken modules, due apparently to careless handling,and having had something heavy set on top of the pallet. I have my freight shipments sent to a neighboring business which is kind enough to receive them for me, since they have many full time staff who are always available during business hours to fork shipments off a truck. In this case the forklift driver did not notice the damage (it was not immediately evident), and the delivery was signed for. However, upon picking up the pallet an hour later, I realized that the shipment was damaged, called the freight company immediately to notify them of the damage, and subsequently filed a detailed written claim. I just got notice that my claim was denied by the carrier, evidently without considering any of the photos or the written explanation I submitted with the claim. They simply cited that the shipment had been signed for without noting damage. It is clear to me that the carrier was responsible for the damage, yet apparently because the damage was hidden and the BOL was signed, they can leave me holding the bag for a significant amount of money. This particular incident could have been worse, but it is the first time I've had it happen and it certainly makes me worried about future deliveries. It suddenly seems like an unacceptable liability to have others sign for my deliveries without a thorough inspection. I asked my distributor whether the shipments have any insurance on them, and the person I spoke with didn't know the answer. So my $50 Ebay shipment is insured, but my $50,000 worth of equipment isn't? My insurance agent says that I can make a claim on my commercial insurance, but advised against it in this case, since the loss was only around $1K, and is guaranteed to raise my future premiums. I know that things get damaged or lost all the time in shipment, and I'm wondering how other businesses handle it. Businesses that do larger volume must have damaged freight all the time. Is it just impossible to get freight companies to take responsibility for damage that is not immediately evident, since they are acting as judge on their own behalf? Do you just refuse to sign the bill of lading until you've examined all the contents of the packages (this is a logistical nightmare in most cases)? Do you just chalk it up to the cost of doing business and/or make claims to your commercial insurance? Would appreciate your thoughts / experiences with this issue. Thanks. - Luke Luke Christy NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™: Certification #031409-25 NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer™: Certification #ST032611-03 CoSEIA Certified PV Installer Solar Gain Services, LLC PO Box 531 Monte Vista, CO. 81144 sgsrenewab...@gmail.com 719.588.3044 www.sgsrenewables.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette:
Re: [RE-wrenches] Fw: BP Modules
Hi Mac, Everything is different again. I just did a claim, and things seemed to work for the client quite well (full replacement). BP is having the owner call 800 891-2163 to start a claim. In Colorado the claim went to a 3rd party installer that is handling all the claims. They came out, did their own evaluation and recommendation to BP. BP than processed the recommendation, and passed along their judgement.In our case the client could have modules that BP procured (I think Motech) installed by the 3rd party installer, or a cash buyout. The new process doesn't seem to bode well for the local installer as far as drumming up work as you are soon cut out of the loop. I find though that these clients are incredible grateful for looking out for their best interests. Ultimately, things worked out much easier, as our 3rd part BP reps are great. If this is the process, for better or worse, it is much easier. Jay Pozner www.nunatakenergy.com 970-349-3432 NABCEP Certified PV Installer: Cert.#031310-177 IREC Affiliated Instructor On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 6:20 AM, Mac Lewis maclew...@gmail.com wrote: Does anyone have any updated info for BP warranty claims? I tried this contact Christine Alinen Asset Coordinator After Sales/Warranty BP Solar 301-698-4217 as posted by Marco a while ago, but haven't gotten a response. Thanks On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:02 PM, Marco Mangelsdorf ma...@pvthawaii.comwrote: From 10 months ago. Not sure whether Christine is still there. Christine Alinen Asset Coordinator After Sales/Warranty BP Solar 301-698-4217 Anyone know who is providing warranty support for BP? Same old problem - shattered glass from overheated J box area Jeremy Rodriguez Sent via BlackBerry. Sorry for typos and shorthand! ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Mac Lewis * Yo solo sé que no sé nada. -Sócrates * ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] BP SX mods and inverter failure?
Hi all, I know the BP SX module failure has come up often on past posts, but I was wondering if anyone has seen the failures effecting the systems inverters. I have inherited several systems from an installer who is no longer in the area. I have been picking up the task of replacing the failed/or failing modules over the last few years. The two catastrophic failures of the modules I have seen (melted j-boxes, and spidered glass) have also been connected to a inverter (2 different models) that has failed. The OCP has checked out, ground fault fuses intact, no evidence of hot/melted wires (other than the failed mods). This could be coincidence , or not? Questions of replacing the inverter, and having the remaining modules still in service is a concern. Just seeing if any of you have seen anything similar. Also wondering if anyone has some insight unto trying to test mods that don't have the signature burn marks, or come up with a compelling case for a full array replacement. It seems my last BP contact is no longer with them, and not sure how this round will turn out. Thanks, Jay Poz www.nunatakenergy.com 970-349-3432 NABCEP Certified PV Installer: Cert.#031310-177 IREC Affiliated Instructor ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Wood boiler ignition issue
Hi Kris, I have only had one experience similar to yours. It was a DR inverter, and a the client installed a new Budaris boiler. The boiler didn't like the power source, and we were faced with a similar choice of replacing inverter or appliance. In my inquiry someone suggested putting a capacitor (I believe 50 micro farad) in line with the power source. With the blessing of the client, we tried it and It worked like a charm (about 4 years now). In theory I follow the logic, but as I put this out to the blog I would be curious what others have to say about this cheaper (about $30) fix. Jay Jay Poz Nunatak AES (970) 349-3432 On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 12:51 PM, Kristopher Schmid sol...@legacysolar.comwrote: Esteemed wrenches, I am assisting in troubleshooting a stand alone system with three stacked Magnum 4448 PAE inverters. The electric ignition of LP for the wood boiler will not fire from inverter power. As soon as we fire up the generator, the boiler ignites. Has anyone seen this before? Is there a solution? The boiler is a Central Boiler E-Classic 2400. Thanks in advance! -- Shine On! Kris Schmid Legacy Solar, LLC 864 Clam Falls Trail Frederic, WI 54837 715-653-4295 www.legacysolar.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer BSEE ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Reconsidering Generac for Off-Grid
I have a client who is trying to sell a unit New in Box. She was advised (by the plumber) that being an off grid specific unit it was the way to go. Unfortunately being just a 6KW at altitude, and the size of the loads, it is well under powered. The distributor has been difficult, so given shipping, etc she would be willing to make a deal. I dont have a price, but could put an interested party in contact with her. The unit is located in Crested Butte CO. Please contact off line if you have interest. Jay Pozner Nunatak Alternative Energy Solutions (970)349-3432 nunatakene...@gmail.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Reference PV System
Rob, I think much of your snow removal will be at your lesser test angles. 4:12 might be a problem, but here in Western Colorado we are seeing 10:12 pitch (40 deg) shed quite easily after a storm (would be curious about the 6:12(we don't see too much here)). I think, although we don't share similar latitudes, we do share similar snowpack. Colorado, and I believe Edmonton have a Continental snowpack which tend to have lower moisture content (colder dryer snow). Usually we don't see the rhyming issues that a Costal or even Intermountain experience, so the tackiness of the snow is less of a problem. Usually with the first sun after a storm, we see a pretty good shed of the array. I agree with Todd in that raising the array will give the snow a place to accumulate. I am curious about an automated snow removal. Whats that like, can it be done without heat? Thinking about the steep pitched array, I always wonder if just a bit of heat to melt and lubricate the glass sliding surface would be enough of a boost to clear snow earlier. I have had the conversation a few times with an off grid client, and convinced him it wasn't the best use of his energy harvest, but for science Jay Pozner Nunatak AES Crested Butte, CO ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] boiler on inverter
Peter, We had a client with a SW 4024 and his system was trying to power a new Buderus boiler. The boiler controller didn't like the power quality. We cleaned up that circuit with a capacitor and has been working great since. We didn' have a sleeping issue, but he did have quite a few phantom loads. Jay Pozner Nunatak Alternative Energy Solutions On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 6:40 AM, Peter Talmage ptalm...@yahoo.com wrote: I have a customer who wants to use a wall mount gas boiler on their independent power system. Does anyone have any experience with wall mount gas boilers that can wake up a sleeping Trace 4024 inverter and operate correctly? What would the electrical power usage be during operation? Thanks. Peter Talmage, PE ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] TED MONITORING
Ironically as I was looking through my TED 5000 package this thread came through. I am looking to use the TED for data logging for an off grid project, and plan on connecting a computer directly to the Gateway, as the client doesn't have internet access. I hope to use the information for system sizing. Have any of you found the logging to be unreliable?? There is no display involved, and loads are powered by a bit of solar, but mostly generator. Jay Pozner Nunatak AES On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 1:59 PM, Glenn Burt glenn.b...@glbcc.com wrote: As you know, the TED uses a Power Line Carrier communications scheme where data is impressed on the 60Hz AC waveform for distribution throughout the house. There are many pitfalls in this method of data comms, but it can be done and be reliable. That being said here is my experience with the TED – I have the previous generation (1000) in my house and have had it for a few years now. It works well about 80% of the time. It seems to lose communications with the transducer in the AC load center when a few different circuits in my house are active – a 3 bulb under cabinet light in the kitchen for example. It does seem to regain communications within a half hour of the circuit being turned off. We have a solar customer that installed a 5000 on his house for an inexpensive net meter monitor. I happened to visit him last week to install an SMA Sunny Beam with BlueTooth on his inverters. He told me his experience with the TED was very similar to mine, it would lose communications with the display at unpredictable times. So reliable? Not in my experience. Inexpensive? Yes. YMMV -Glenn Burt *From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *i2p *Sent:* Thursday, May 20, 2010 3:04 PM *To:* RE-wrenches *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] TED MONITORING I was intrigued by a previous thread on Google Powermeter and the TED 5000 and tried to setup on two system. In both cases, they did not work. I know they were installed correctly and factory support has me moving wires, getting noise filters, using different branch circuits, etc. In other word they make it my problem. Their out is you have too much noise. Who else has given the TED a try and what are your results? At this point no comment on Google Power meter since I have not gotten to that point in the setup yet. My suspicion is the TED is not up to speed design wise. Don Lowerburg Offline Solar ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Load size for off-grid lodge
Hey all, I am trying to size a PV/generator system for a 10,000 ft2 off-grid hunting/snowmobile lodge with outbuildings. The goal is to significantly reduce current generator run time. I was wondering if any of you have experience or suggestions for calculating time of use of lights, etc in a lodging situation. My interviews with the rancher have proven fruitless to pin down any time of use of most loads, though I do have an estimated run time for the genny in summer and winter. I did get a pretty good snapshot of his connected load by turning on all I could on and clamping the feeds. The lodge is 18 rooms, 4 for the help, and a few outbuildings. Has anyone sized any off-grid lodges? Any other ways to approach the moving target of such a fluctuating load at a guest lodge? Thanks Jay Pozner Nunatak Alternative Energy Solutions ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Kohler Generator Issues
Jeff, When we purchased a 12K unit for a client, the distributor conveniently waited until after the purchase to mention the fact that Kohler wouldn't warranty off-grid usage, and to instruct our customer to not ever mention anything other than it was used for grid-connected standby. To pacify the perfectly crafted words I had for him, he mentioned that Kohler had an off grid unit coming available in the next couple of months addressing all of the fore-mentioned concerns. This was about 2 years ago, and I now see where he intended his smoke to go. I have never heard of such a unit again. When that same client needed another generator we shopped around and found Cummins-Onan to be great to deal with. Simple start up procedure, quieter than that Kohler 12K, 2-wire start, and their price for a 30K generator was 800.00 cheaper than my Kohler distributor could give to me even though it was our first purchase with them. Thus far I have been pleased with Onan. To answer your question, we have never been contacted by Kohler. Jay Pozner Nunatak Alternative Energy Solutions ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Kohler 10ERG and RES Models
Yes. We were told this after selling a 12K RES to a client last year. A few months later we were advised to tell our client to never mention that it would be used in a off-grid situation after he had purchased the unit. It sure put us in a weird spot. Although I protested, explaining that the application was made known to the distributer before purchase, he claimed there was nothing he could do. I have since avoided Kohler for a variety of reasons, but this being quite a big one. It has been a real bummer. I was never given a real reason for this. Jay Pozner Nunatak Alternative Energy Solutions Crested Butte, CO nunatakene...@gmail.com (970) 349-3432 On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 9:21 AM, scott and tracey gentle...@air-pipe.comwrote: Yesterday, our Kohler rep told us that Kohler has officially declared that it will not honor its warranty for any 10ERG or RES installed in an off-grid location. Historically we've sold these models into the off-grid market and Kohler has honored the warranty. Has anyone else had such a definitive statement delivered? Scott Backwoods Solar Sandpoint, ID ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Source for 24v DC clock timer
Hi wrenches, Does anyone know a good source for a reliable, reasonably priced 24v DC clock timer 5-10A run off a relay. We are powering heat tape to mitigate a vulnerable spot in a water pumping system for a stock tank. Thanks, Jay Pozner Nunatak Alternative Energy Solutions Crested Butte, CO (970) 349-3432 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Source for 24v DC clock timer
Thanks Windy, I agree the thermostat would be easier, except to save power we only require a small bit of thaw when the tanks' float will be activated. Cows are creatures of habit, and in fact we have a Crouzet timer in now and the system is working like a dream. It is a T-on/ T-off dial system that is working, but as days get longer/shorter the rancher is looking for an easier way to make finer adjustments. Its more of a trial and error system for several days until he finds the precise place to set the dial, only to change again. So we are just aiming to please... Thanks Jay On Feb 25, 2010, at 11:12 AM, jason pozner wrote: Hi wrenches, Does anyone know a good source for a reliable, reasonably priced 24v DC clock timer 5-10A run off a relay. We are powering heat tape to mitigate a vulnerable spot in a water pumping system for a stock tank. Thanks, Jay Pozner Nunatak Alternative Energy Solutions Crested Butte, CO (970) 349-3432 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Surge protector update?
To piggy-back on the question, and also continue my grounding on a glacier question is anyone familiar with point dissipators and have used them. Todd mentioned Nott LTD http://www.nottltd.com/lightning.html in my last string and I have come acrooss Lightning Masters http://www.lightningmaster.com/index.html Both I believe use some form of point dissipation. They are suppose to take ambient static buildup and dissipate it slower at high voltage levels keeping the current and damage to equipment at a minimum. Have anyone of you used these systems, or know much about using them on an array, glacier, spaceship, marmot, midget, motorhome, or the like? Jay Jay Pozner Nunatak Alternative Energy Solutions Crested Butte, CO 970 349-3432 On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 10:09 AM, Exeltech exelt...@yahoo.com wrote: Jay, Installing a part in a factory doesn't make a product ok. Would be nice, but it doesn't work that way... I use UL here .. but it can be any Nationally Recognized Testing Lab (ETL, CSA, UL, etc) Any UL Listed product, or any UL Recognized part or sub-assembly must either use components that in of themselves are also Listed and/or Recognized to specific UL Standards, or prove during UL testing of the final product that any uncertified component(s) used within the product being tested fully meet the applicable Standard(s) for such parts. Failing that, the unit in question won't qualify for Listing/Recognition, and no UL (or equivalent lab) certification will be issued for that product by any Nationally Recognized Testing Lab. UL. ETL. CSA. etc... Just as all grounding components in a system must meet code, which requires the use of agency certified parts .. use of a non-certified part as a protective element is likely to get the system red-tagged, as Holt pointed out earlier in this thread. For notes .. not everyone is aware that agency certification refers to UL, ETL, CSA, and a number of other OSHA-certified Nationally Recognized Testing Labs. Product approvals from any of these labs are equivalent, though they're not always treated as such by AHJs or others who aren't well informed on this issue. Thankfully, the It must be UL attitude by AHJs and others is steadily fading as an issue. Not gone - but fading... Dan --- On Sat, 8/1/09, jay peltz j...@asis.com wrote: Sure, if you install something electrical that is not UL, they can fail it. Even though that same part installed in a factory is OK. jay ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
