Re: [RE-wrenches] Extra Low Voltage
Hi Hugh, This varies quite a bit all over the States. In Colorado, they have a distinction between an electrician and a PV installer. Electricians can do anything that the PV Installer can do, but not vice versa. In order to pull a state permit, a pv installer just needs to be listed on the regulatory agencies website, which takes a simple one-page application, and has more to do with business credentials than technical expertise. The PV installer is supposed to do only DC wiring. The voltage does not matter because that can mean all the way up to 600 VDC (and beyond) for PV and battery systems above 48V nominal are restricted by the NEC. This seems to be the case in all of the jurisdictions that I have worked in. You don't need any credentials to install the DC side of things. The DC voltage is not a significant factor in who can wire what. For the AC side, a master electrician license is required to pull permits that have an AC portion of wiring. However, often for some financial reason, such as utility incentive or to comply with bid requirements, a NABCEP certified person is required to oversee the DC side of things. Hope this helps, Cheers On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 6:44 PM, Ray Walters r...@solarray.com wrote: New Mexico used to have a low voltage electrician. It was for communications guys, and was limited to under 50 v. Actually pretty useless, since most systems had inverters. Also it wasn't that much harder to just get a regular electrical license. Also, some considered even 24 v systems to be over 50 v, since the Voc in cold weather could exceed 50v. Generally, for maintenance/ battery replacement on off grid stuff, no one worries about it. If you are doing new construction, pulling permits, then you need to have much more than just the license. Insurance, bonding, worker's comp, etc. are also all required. R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer303 505-8760 On 3/6/2014 6:33 PM, Hugh Piggott wrote: Me again, Maybe that was confusing. Just to clarify this question, I will break it down as follows: - What qualifications do you need to legally work on electrical systems in your country/state? - *Is the circuit voltage a factor*, and if there is a different rule for ELV systems, then how is ELV defined? - What other factors are applicable such as status (homeowner, installer, paid/unpaid) and location (inside home, wet location, etc)? Thanks for any observations. Hugh On 5 Mar 2014, at 08:34, Hugh Piggott wrote: hi All, I am trying to find some general statements that can be made about the global legal position on who may or may not work on/install extra low voltage (ELV) systems or equipment such as batteries, PV, turbines etc. I understand that in the USA this is a matter for state legislation rather than federal. I'd be interested to learn what rules people follow regarding such work and who can do it, for themselves or for money, in what environment (inside or outside the home for example, dry or wet etc) and at what voltages? The definition of ELV seems to change depending on various factors, one of which is whether it is separated (floating and well insulated) or not. Many of us work with battery systems, and not everyone is a certified electrician. I'd love to know some ground rules. thanks! Hugh Hugh Piggott Scoraig Wind Electric Dundonnell Ross shire IV23 2RE, UK +44 77 1315 7600 h...@scoraigwind.co.uk www.scoraigwind.co.uk ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette:www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios:www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Mac Lewis *Yo solo sé que no sé nada.
Re: [RE-wrenches] Extra Low Voltage
Hi again Hugh, Also, in Colorado, homeowners can do any and all work that they want, as long as they can get it passed inspection. Oftentimes, incentives discourage this because they need to use a licensed contractor to get the incentive. We have done a significant amount of business from shameful homeowners that have tried wiring stuff up that they bought off of the internet and couldn't get technical support to do code-compliant installation. We always charge a lot for this type of work. Thanks Thanks On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 6:09 AM, Mac Lewis maclew...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Hugh, This varies quite a bit all over the States. In Colorado, they have a distinction between an electrician and a PV installer. Electricians can do anything that the PV Installer can do, but not vice versa. In order to pull a state permit, a pv installer just needs to be listed on the regulatory agencies website, which takes a simple one-page application, and has more to do with business credentials than technical expertise. The PV installer is supposed to do only DC wiring. The voltage does not matter because that can mean all the way up to 600 VDC (and beyond) for PV and battery systems above 48V nominal are restricted by the NEC. This seems to be the case in all of the jurisdictions that I have worked in. You don't need any credentials to install the DC side of things. The DC voltage is not a significant factor in who can wire what. For the AC side, a master electrician license is required to pull permits that have an AC portion of wiring. However, often for some financial reason, such as utility incentive or to comply with bid requirements, a NABCEP certified person is required to oversee the DC side of things. Hope this helps, Cheers On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 6:44 PM, Ray Walters r...@solarray.com wrote: New Mexico used to have a low voltage electrician. It was for communications guys, and was limited to under 50 v. Actually pretty useless, since most systems had inverters. Also it wasn't that much harder to just get a regular electrical license. Also, some considered even 24 v systems to be over 50 v, since the Voc in cold weather could exceed 50v. Generally, for maintenance/ battery replacement on off grid stuff, no one worries about it. If you are doing new construction, pulling permits, then you need to have much more than just the license. Insurance, bonding, worker's comp, etc. are also all required. R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer303 505-8760 On 3/6/2014 6:33 PM, Hugh Piggott wrote: Me again, Maybe that was confusing. Just to clarify this question, I will break it down as follows: - What qualifications do you need to legally work on electrical systems in your country/state? - *Is the circuit voltage a factor*, and if there is a different rule for ELV systems, then how is ELV defined? - What other factors are applicable such as status (homeowner, installer, paid/unpaid) and location (inside home, wet location, etc)? Thanks for any observations. Hugh On 5 Mar 2014, at 08:34, Hugh Piggott wrote: hi All, I am trying to find some general statements that can be made about the global legal position on who may or may not work on/install extra low voltage (ELV) systems or equipment such as batteries, PV, turbines etc. I understand that in the USA this is a matter for state legislation rather than federal. I'd be interested to learn what rules people follow regarding such work and who can do it, for themselves or for money, in what environment (inside or outside the home for example, dry or wet etc) and at what voltages? The definition of ELV seems to change depending on various factors, one of which is whether it is separated (floating and well insulated) or not. Many of us work with battery systems, and not everyone is a certified electrician. I'd love to know some ground rules. thanks! Hugh Hugh Piggott Scoraig Wind Electric Dundonnell Ross shire IV23 2RE, UK +44 77 1315 7600 h...@scoraigwind.co.uk www.scoraigwind.co.uk ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules
Re: [RE-wrenches] Extra Low Voltage
Me again, Maybe that was confusing. Just to clarify this question, I will break it down as follows: What qualifications do you need to legally work on electrical systems in your country/state? Is the circuit voltage a factor, and if there is a different rule for ELV systems, then how is ELV defined? What other factors are applicable such as status (homeowner, installer, paid/unpaid) and location (inside home, wet location, etc)? Thanks for any observations. Hugh On 5 Mar 2014, at 08:34, Hugh Piggott wrote: hi All, I am trying to find some general statements that can be made about the global legal position on who may or may not work on/install extra low voltage (ELV) systems or equipment such as batteries, PV, turbines etc. I understand that in the USA this is a matter for state legislation rather than federal. I'd be interested to learn what rules people follow regarding such work and who can do it, for themselves or for money, in what environment (inside or outside the home for example, dry or wet etc) and at what voltages? The definition of ELV seems to change depending on various factors, one of which is whether it is separated (floating and well insulated) or not. Many of us work with battery systems, and not everyone is a certified electrician. I'd love to know some ground rules. thanks! Hugh Hugh Piggott Scoraig Wind Electric Dundonnell Ross shire IV23 2RE, UK +44 77 1315 7600 h...@scoraigwind.co.uk www.scoraigwind.co.uk ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Extra Low Voltage
New Mexico used to have a low voltage electrician. It was for communications guys, and was limited to under 50 v. Actually pretty useless, since most systems had inverters. Also it wasn't that much harder to just get a regular electrical license. Also, some considered even 24 v systems to be over 50 v, since the Voc in cold weather could exceed 50v. Generally, for maintenance/ battery replacement on off grid stuff, no one worries about it. If you are doing new construction, pulling permits, then you need to have much more than just the license. Insurance, bonding, worker's comp, etc. are also all required. R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 On 3/6/2014 6:33 PM, Hugh Piggott wrote: Me again, Maybe that was confusing. Just to clarify this question, I will break it down as follows: * What qualifications do you need to legally work on electrical systems in your country/state? * *Is the circuit voltage a factor*, and if there is a different rule for ELV systems, then how is ELV defined? * What other factors are applicable such as status (homeowner, installer, paid/unpaid) and location (inside home, wet location, etc)? Thanks for any observations. Hugh On 5 Mar 2014, at 08:34, Hugh Piggott wrote: hi All, I am trying to find some general statements that can be made about the global legal position on who may or may not work on/install extra low voltage (ELV) systems or equipment such as batteries, PV, turbines etc. I understand that in the USA this is a matter for state legislation rather than federal. I'd be interested to learn what rules people follow regarding such work and who can do it, for themselves or for money, in what environment (inside or outside the home for example, dry or wet etc) and at what voltages? The definition of ELV seems to change depending on various factors, one of which is whether it is separated (floating and well insulated) or not. Many of us work with battery systems, and not everyone is a certified electrician. I'd love to know some ground rules. thanks! Hugh Hugh Piggott Scoraig Wind Electric Dundonnell Ross shire IV23 2RE, UK +44 77 1315 7600 h...@scoraigwind.co.uk mailto:h...@scoraigwind.co.uk www.scoraigwind.co.uk http://www.scoraigwind.co.uk/ ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Extra Low Voltage
hi All, I am trying to find some general statements that can be made about the global legal position on who may or may not work on/install extra low voltage (ELV) systems or equipment such as batteries, PV, turbines etc. I understand that in the USA this is a matter for state legislation rather than federal. I'd be interested to learn what rules people follow regarding such work and who can do it, for themselves or for money, in what environment (inside or outside the home for example, dry or wet etc) and at what voltages? The definition of ELV seems to change depending on various factors, one of which is whether it is separated (floating and well insulated) or not. Many of us work with battery systems, and not everyone is a certified electrician. I'd love to know some ground rules. thanks! Hugh Hugh Piggott Scoraig Wind Electric Dundonnell Ross shire IV23 2RE, UK +44 77 1315 7600 h...@scoraigwind.co.uk www.scoraigwind.co.uk ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
