Re: [RE-wrenches] magnum question
HI William, I appreciate your time and input as to your thinking about this project. However this system already exists and has been in operation for some time. Client has a offgrid farm with 45kva generator. The situation is that the main house also already runs off this generator, but the generator doesn’t run 24/7/365. The other times of the year they run a honda 6500 at 120/240vac to power the house. The existing infrastructure of the farm is already set up for 120/208 3 phase and it wouldn’t be necessary or wanted to change all that for 7kw of inverters. That all said, I’ll probably run the inverters at 120/240 setup, as the back up generator is 120/240. And when they use the 3 phase generator its on 24 hrs a day. Yes it will only use 1 inverter to battery charge, but given 24 hr charge time, it’ll keep up the batteries no problem. Thanks to all, Jay > On Apr 2, 2020, at 11:31 AM, William Miller wrote: > > Jay: > > This idea sounds wrong on many levels. Generators are designed to be loaded > evenly, with some allowance for normal deviations. Having separate loads > that can vary independently is asking for regulation problems. > > You did not state if the generator was wound Wye or Delta. This makes a > difference. > > Delta wound generators that provide 120/240 have one winding center-tapped. > That winding can provide only 1/3 of the rating of the generator (there is > some research that says the de-rate is greater). If this is the case, your > two inverters can each access only 1/6 of the generator capability. Sure you > might be able to draw more than 1/6, for a while... > > Have you checked to see if the generator can be field re-tapped to provide > 120 only? Then you could provide a generator-fed distribution and put all of > your 120 loads on it, providing the full generator capability. > > It has come to my attention recently that two Outback FXR (or FX, I am not > sure) inverters can be stacked on two legs of a three-phase input power > source. I had thought this was not possible. I know it works because I > accidently did this. I believe the supply was Wye configured. It was with a > mobile set up built by someone else. The inverters should have been the > Mobile version, and maybe this is what made this possible. You just can't > use an X240 on this setup. Consider this option if you must unbalance the > generator. Try to balance the loads and charging between the inverters and > avoid power-save settings (you can't power-save without an X240 anyway). > > I have had many customers ask me to do something that my intuition told me > was a bad idea. When I was younger I might comply, and learn to regret it. > Good luck and stay strong. > > William Miller > > -Original Message- > From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org > <mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>] On Behalf Of jay > Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2020 4:39 PM > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: [RE-wrenches] magnum question > > Hi All, > > My question is can a single Magnum remote run 2 inverters each as master for > 120v? > > > I’ve got a client with a 3 phase generator, and I need two phases, but I > don’t need 240v. > > > 1. I can’t change the generator > 2. Two phases because I can’t load one phase that heavily. > > I can do 2 Outback FXR’s each as a master, but I’d need to have 2 Mate3S’s. > > But I don’t know if magnum has that possiblity? > > Thanks > > jay > > Peltz Power > > > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > <mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org> > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > <http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html> > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/> > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > <mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wre
Re: [RE-wrenches] magnum question
Jay: This idea sounds wrong on many levels. Generators are designed to be loaded evenly, with some allowance for normal deviations. Having separate loads that can vary independently is asking for regulation problems. You did not state if the generator was wound Wye or Delta. This makes a difference. Delta wound generators that provide 120/240 have one winding center-tapped. That winding can provide only 1/3 of the rating of the generator (there is some research that says the de-rate is greater). If this is the case, your two inverters can each access only 1/6 of the generator capability. Sure you might be able to draw more than 1/6, for a while... Have you checked to see if the generator can be field re-tapped to provide 120 only? Then you could provide a generator-fed distribution and put all of your 120 loads on it, providing the full generator capability. It has come to my attention recently that two Outback FXR (or FX, I am not sure) inverters can be stacked on two legs of a three-phase input power source. I had thought this was not possible. I know it works because I accidently did this. I believe the supply was Wye configured. It was with a mobile set up built by someone else. The inverters should have been the Mobile version, and maybe this is what made this possible. You just can't use an X240 on this setup. Consider this option if you must unbalance the generator. Try to balance the loads and charging between the inverters and avoid power-save settings (you can't power-save without an X240 anyway). I have had many customers ask me to do something that my intuition told me was a bad idea. When I was younger I might comply, and learn to regret it. Good luck and stay strong. William Miller -Original Message- From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of jay Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2020 4:39 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] magnum question Hi All, My question is can a single Magnum remote run 2 inverters each as master for 120v? I’ve got a client with a 3 phase generator, and I need two phases, but I don’t need 240v. 1. I can’t change the generator 2. Two phases because I can’t load one phase that heavily. I can do 2 Outback FXR’s each as a master, but I’d need to have 2 Mate3S’s. But I don’t know if magnum has that possiblity? Thanks jay Peltz Power ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] magnum question
Hi Jay The FXR inverters do have the ability to run 2 legs of a 3phase system on a single Mate3(s)and a Hub10.3 Inside the Hub10.3 is a header containing 5 jumpers. These jumpers can be arranged so the inverters are set to a 3 phase configuration. Up to 9 inverters can be used per system, up to 3 inverters per ac phase. Up to 6 inverters can be used with up to 3 inverters per phase on 2 of the ac legs a 3phase system. For more information on the jumper locations see the Hub 10.3 quick start guide. http://www.outbackpower.com/downloads/documents/system_management/hub/hub103_quick_start.pdf In a 3 phase system the inverters are programmed as Master, B phase Master, C Phase Master or designated as a Slave inverter. Each Master can control 2 slave inverters. This is further explained in the FXR installation manual. http://www.outbackpower.com/downloads/documents/inverter_chargers/fxr_vfxr_a/fxr_install.pdf I hope this helps. Take Care All -Original Message- From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of jay Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2020 4:39 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] magnum question Hi All, My question is can a single Magnum remote run 2 inverters each as master for 120v? I’ve got a client with a 3 phase generator, and I need two phases, but I don’t need 240v. 1. I can’t change the generator 2. Two phases because I can’t load one phase that heavily. I can do 2 Outback FXR’s each as a master, but I’d need to have 2 Mate3S’s. But I don’t know if magnum has that possiblity? Thanks jay Peltz Power ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=d4abb431-890cfaf3-d4a8bdba-002590870bde-fe8439a98f146def=1=cc596888-1eac-4ff2-b73a-fe4a7f887cd6=http%3A%2F%2Flists.re-wrenches.org%2Foptions.cgi%2Fre-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=6fb987e8-321ec92a-6fba8e63-002590870bde-aa16baf4f942a9e8=1=cc596888-1eac-4ff2-b73a-fe4a7f887cd6=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.re-wrenches.org%2Fetiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=744e5f95-29e91157-744d561e-002590870bde-8fb79a89726d0b65=1=cc596888-1eac-4ff2-b73a-fe4a7f887cd6=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.members.re-wrenches.org%2F ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] magnum question
Hi Dana, That depends on the unit. In my case its a large generator with large loads, the inverters being just one of the loads. I can’t load one phase with 8kw, that would overload one phase. Splitting the load to 2 phases, is within the capacity of the generator and within the total loads I know I can do the inverters the way I want, what I dont know is if you can have 2 x 120v magnum inverters both as master with a single controller. Jay > On Apr 1, 2020, at 5:28 PM, Dana Orzel wrote: > > I have been informed [long ago] that not equally weighting a generators > output can cause excessive & uneven wear on the windings of a generator. > Way Back in the day, folks [old wrenches] used to place an additional load > [hot water element, heat lamps...] on the unused leg to balance out a 240 vac > gen that was only using one 120v leg for inverter /battery charging on a 240 > only generator. Simple but effective though not very fuel thrifty. > > I am open to dispelling this anecdote/old wife's tale, if anyone can confirm > or dispute this. It makes sense to me overall. > > > > Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. > C - 208.721.7003 d...@solarwork.com > Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 > NABCEP # 051112-136 www.solarwork.com > "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" > Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > > -Original Message- > From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of jay > Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2020 5:39 PM > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: [RE-wrenches] magnum question > > Hi All, > > My question is can a single Magnum remote run 2 inverters each as master for > 120v? > > > I’ve got a client with a 3 phase generator, and I need two phases, but I > don’t need 240v. > > > 1. I can’t change the generator > 2. Two phases because I can’t load one phase that heavily. > > I can do 2 Outback FXR’s each as a master, but I’d need to have 2 Mate3S’s. > > But I don’t know if magnum has that possiblity? > > Thanks > > jay > > Peltz Power > > > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] magnum question
I have been informed [long ago] that not equally weighting a generators output can cause excessive & uneven wear on the windings of a generator. Way Back in the day, folks [old wrenches] used to place an additional load [hot water element, heat lamps...] on the unused leg to balance out a 240 vac gen that was only using one 120v leg for inverter /battery charging on a 240 only generator. Simple but effective though not very fuel thrifty. I am open to dispelling this anecdote/old wife's tale, if anyone can confirm or dispute this. It makes sense to me overall. Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. C - 208.721.7003 d...@solarwork.com Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 NABCEP # 051112-136 www.solarwork.com "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" Please consider the environment before printing this email. -Original Message- From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of jay Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2020 5:39 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] magnum question Hi All, My question is can a single Magnum remote run 2 inverters each as master for 120v? I’ve got a client with a 3 phase generator, and I need two phases, but I don’t need 240v. 1. I can’t change the generator 2. Two phases because I can’t load one phase that heavily. I can do 2 Outback FXR’s each as a master, but I’d need to have 2 Mate3S’s. But I don’t know if magnum has that possiblity? Thanks jay Peltz Power ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] magnum question
Hi All, My question is can a single Magnum remote run 2 inverters each as master for 120v? I’ve got a client with a 3 phase generator, and I need two phases, but I don’t need 240v. 1. I can’t change the generator 2. Two phases because I can’t load one phase that heavily. I can do 2 Outback FXR’s each as a master, but I’d need to have 2 Mate3S’s. But I don’t know if magnum has that possiblity? Thanks jay Peltz Power ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] magnum question
Gary, I have an older IPAD dedicated to manuals. I use PDF Pro to transfer them and catalogue them on the IPAD and I take that to every installation. I have dozens of manuals on the IPAD, and as long as I take the time to download them and catalogue them they are always available to me. On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 12:26 PM, Baxter, Gary gbax...@sensata.com wrote: Hi Chris, Thanks for the thoughts. I understand about the paper manuals I always like to have a hard copy around and I think we kind of trained everyone on the SW to make sure the settings were recorded somewhere. There were two things that led us to put the manuals on disc (we are looking into USB now) cost and space. A lot of people have commented on how thorough Tony Boatwright (Tony wrote Trace manuals as well) is when he writes the manuals but unfortunately the manuals have grown in size. The manuals can no longer be printed on half page (8.5 x 11 folded in half) there are too many pages. The next option is to print a full size 8.5 x 11 but the price per manual now is up to $6 each our cost and that is printing 2k per print and it requires new boxes for the products so a larger manual can fit. Seems like trivial stuff but it adds up quickly when you are shipping 20k pieces per year. That said we understand the need for paper manuals and are looking into it again, we discussed offering paper manuals on a request basis. Thanks for the feedback, Gary *Gary Baxter* *Product Manager* Magnum | Dimensions 2211 West Casino Rd. Everett, WA. 98204 Office 425.353.8833 | Mobile 425.501.0289 | Fax. 425.353.8390 *Please Note My New Email Address:* *gbax...@sensata.com gbax...@sensata.com* | www.magnumenergy.com *A Sensata Technologies Business Unit* *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Chris Schaefer *Sent:* Saturday, November 01, 2014 10:23 AM *To:* 'RE-wrenches' *Cc:* Santos-Buch, Alan; Boatwright, Anthony *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] magnum question Gary, Just wanted to take the time to say thanks for the follow-up. I'm hoping other manufacturers will follow suit to let us know how issues are resolved. Sometimes us off-grid installers feel awfully lonely out here:). On a separate issue, please offer a paper manual option when it comes to your Remote/routers. This is necessary so that we can record the settings and not have to bring a laptop in to the remote locations were we do our work. I understand that you're trying to go green and that you are constantly refining your products, thus this requires a reprint and that is expensive. The DVD is fine for a client that may never look at it but as installers we need the hard copies. I'd be happy to pay an additional charge for these as we don't need it for every system. Thanks for listening. Christopher PS still waiting on your version of a 48V grid-tie/battery backup inverter (not AC-Coupling) Chris Schaefer’s [image: SolarWindFX] *Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 585-748-1870 * * 5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424* *www.solarandwindfx.com http://www.solarandwindfx.com ~ E-mail: ch...@solarandwindfx.com ch...@solarandwindfx.com* Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. -Original Message- From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Baxter, Gary Sent: Friday, October 31, 2014 18:44 To: RE-wrenches Cc: Santos-Buch, Alan; Boatwright, Anthony Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] magnum question Follow up with Jay, We thought it might help others to post what we found with Jay's system. This was a Magnum MS4024PAE model that is 120/240 split phase input and output. We describe this unit as 2-2k units in series inside one unit with a two winding transformer basically an autoformer. The issue Jay was having was a Overtemp fault when charging from generator after an hour or so. The first tech suggested turning down the charge rate to 70% which solved the issue but didn't answer the question of why the unit was in Overtemp. The first suspicion was there was 120v into the inverter which will cause the transformer to run on half the windings and overheat at full charger output. It is perfectly acceptable to input 120v to the MS-PAE (either leg) and it will charge and the output will be 240v but the charge rate should be reduced. The voltage measurement to the input terminals was 240v so that issue was not suspected anymore. What Jay found was one pole of the 240v breaker from the generator was bad. What made it hard to troubleshoot
Re: [RE-wrenches] magnum question
Here, we use a DropBox folder of manuals sorted by manufacturers that any employee or sub here can access; if the site is so far off grid it has no wifi or cell, they just have to download to their smartphone/tablet/etc before the job. Clients get a link to just the manuals for their equipment on Dropbox. CDs or DVDs for docs are of almost zero use to us, I think there's only one computer around here that even has a DVD drive anymore. USB drive or SD card would be FAR more useful, We can read those on our smartphones. Our most recent Magnum order last month still had paper manuals for everything; I 3-hole punch those for the client's brain book that hangs by their system control center by the fire extinguisher and baking soda with EMERGENCY SHUTDOWN INSTRUCTIONS and a troubleshooting flowchart on the cover. Likely I'll be buying fewer 3-ring binders for clients in the near future, or at least slimmer ones, but it's easy to include a couple pages of system settings that can be filled in by hand by the installer, signed and dated, right along with our battery bank inspection / maintenance forms, even if the actual paper manuals are not there. Really prefer that clients don't mess with system settings all that much anyway. With systems where the client takes responsibility for battery bank maintenance, I've found that the guilt factor of someone in charge seeing that nobody on their staff has filled out that prominently displayed battery maint form in awhile is a very effective motivator. I like the dedicated old iPad idea, Chris! going to look for one used and cheap, or a China tablet. Sigh. Anyone here remember back in the day when your test equipment / troubleshooting tool bag didn't include 2 different USB cords, thumb drive full of firmware upgrades and manuals, a laptop computer and little inverter to run it? AH well, at least we got MPPT now, 48v systems, MC4 PV module connectors and thinner wire too. Best; Dan Fink Buckville Energy IREC Certified Instructor™ for: ~ PV Installation Professional ~ Small Wind Installer NABCEP / IREC / ISPQ Accredited Continuing Education Providers™ 970.672.4342 On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 10:17 AM, Chris Mason cometenergysyst...@gmail.com wrote: Gary, I have an older IPAD dedicated to manuals. I use PDF Pro to transfer them and catalogue them on the IPAD and I take that to every installation. I have dozens of manuals on the IPAD, and as long as I take the time to download them and catalogue them they are always available to me. ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] magnum question
HI All, I've got many folks who are not very tech savy, so electronic manuals are a non option. I support the idea, just make it easy to buy paper copies. And really that includes me. I like a paper copy of the things I need. My phone while it has lots of manuals is too small to really read. I don't bring my table to the field except for known reprograming work ( classics). And the batteries never go dead. What I would suggest is a map of how to get around. Back in the days of Trace and Tony would know this for sure, they used to include in the later years a large format map which showed the menus/ adjustments Mostly this what folks need IMHO. If they have a problem they'll call but sometimes getting them to understand where to go/ how to get there is difficult via phone. But a map included with each item ( RC/ARC only really) will really help out. Thanks jay peltz power On Nov 3, 2014, at 10:50 AM, Dan Fink wrote: Here, we use a DropBox folder of manuals sorted by manufacturers that any employee or sub here can access; if the site is so far off grid it has no wifi or cell, they just have to download to their smartphone/tablet/etc before the job. Clients get a link to just the manuals for their equipment on Dropbox. CDs or DVDs for docs are of almost zero use to us, I think there's only one computer around here that even has a DVD drive anymore. USB drive or SD card would be FAR more useful, We can read those on our smartphones. Our most recent Magnum order last month still had paper manuals for everything; I 3-hole punch those for the client's brain book that hangs by their system control center by the fire extinguisher and baking soda with EMERGENCY SHUTDOWN INSTRUCTIONS and a troubleshooting flowchart on the cover. Likely I'll be buying fewer 3-ring binders for clients in the near future, or at least slimmer ones, but it's easy to include a couple pages of system settings that can be filled in by hand by the installer, signed and dated, right along with our battery bank inspection / maintenance forms, even if the actual paper manuals are not there. Really prefer that clients don't mess with system settings all that much anyway. With systems where the client takes responsibility for battery bank maintenance, I've found that the guilt factor of someone in charge seeing that nobody on their staff has filled out that prominently displayed battery maint form in awhile is a very effective motivator. I like the dedicated old iPad idea, Chris! going to look for one used and cheap, or a China tablet. Sigh. Anyone here remember back in the day when your test equipment / troubleshooting tool bag didn't include 2 different USB cords, thumb drive full of firmware upgrades and manuals, a laptop computer and little inverter to run it? AH well, at least we got MPPT now, 48v systems, MC4 PV module connectors and thinner wire too. Best; Dan Fink Buckville Energy IREC Certified Instructor™ for: ~ PV Installation Professional ~ Small Wind Installer NABCEP / IREC / ISPQ Accredited Continuing Education Providers™ 970.672.4342 On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 10:17 AM, Chris Mason cometenergysyst...@gmail.com wrote: Gary, I have an older IPAD dedicated to manuals. I use PDF Pro to transfer them and catalogue them on the IPAD and I take that to every installation. I have dozens of manuals on the IPAD, and as long as I take the time to download them and catalogue them they are always available to me. ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] magnum question
Chris, Good point all the manuals are available as pdf on line. We still run into people without internet access so paper is still their choice. I did receive an email from a customer that said he couldn’t access our website because he didn’t have a computer or internet, I didn’t ask how he emailed. Gary From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Chris Mason Sent: Monday, November 03, 2014 9:17 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] magnum question Gary, I have an older IPAD dedicated to manuals. I use PDF Pro to transfer them and catalogue them on the IPAD and I take that to every installation. I have dozens of manuals on the IPAD, and as long as I take the time to download them and catalogue them they are always available to me. On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 12:26 PM, Baxter, Gary gbax...@sensata.commailto:gbax...@sensata.com wrote: Hi Chris, Thanks for the thoughts. I understand about the paper manuals I always like to have a hard copy around and I think we kind of trained everyone on the SW to make sure the settings were recorded somewhere. There were two things that led us to put the manuals on disc (we are looking into USB now) cost and space. A lot of people have commented on how thorough Tony Boatwright (Tony wrote Trace manuals as well) is when he writes the manuals but unfortunately the manuals have grown in size. The manuals can no longer be printed on half page (8.5 x 11 folded in half) there are too many pages. The next option is to print a full size 8.5 x 11 but the price per manual now is up to $6 each our cost and that is printing 2k per print and it requires new boxes for the products so a larger manual can fit. Seems like trivial stuff but it adds up quickly when you are shipping 20k pieces per year. That said we understand the need for paper manuals and are looking into it again, we discussed offering paper manuals on a request basis. Thanks for the feedback, Gary Gary Baxter Product Manager Magnum | Dimensions 2211 West Casino Rd. Everett, WA. 98204 Office 425.353.8833tel:425.353.8833 | Mobile 425.501.0289tel:425.501.0289 | Fax. 425.353.8390tel:425.353.8390 Please Note My New Email Address: gbax...@sensata.commailto:gbax...@sensata.com | www.magnumenergy.comhttp://www.magnumenergy.com/ A Sensata Technologies Business Unit From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.orgmailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Chris Schaefer Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2014 10:23 AM To: 'RE-wrenches' Cc: Santos-Buch, Alan; Boatwright, Anthony Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] magnum question Gary, Just wanted to take the time to say thanks for the follow-up. I'm hoping other manufacturers will follow suit to let us know how issues are resolved. Sometimes us off-grid installers feel awfully lonely out here:). On a separate issue, please offer a paper manual option when it comes to your Remote/routers. This is necessary so that we can record the settings and not have to bring a laptop in to the remote locations were we do our work. I understand that you're trying to go green and that you are constantly refining your products, thus this requires a reprint and that is expensive. The DVD is fine for a client that may never look at it but as installers we need the hard copies. I'd be happy to pay an additional charge for these as we don't need it for every system. Thanks for listening. Christopher PS still waiting on your version of a 48V grid-tie/battery backup inverter (not AC-Coupling) Chris Schaefer’s [SolarWindFX] Tel/Fax 585-229-2083tel:585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870tel:585-748-1870 5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424 www.solarandwindfx.comhttp://www.solarandwindfx.com ~ E-mail: ch...@solarandwindfx.commailto:ch...@solarandwindfx.com [cid:image002.jpg@01CFF75C.388117F0] [cid:image003.jpg@01CFF75C.388117F0] [cid:image004.jpg@01CFF75C.388117F0] Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. -Original Message- From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Baxter, Gary Sent: Friday, October 31, 2014 18:44 To: RE-wrenches Cc: Santos-Buch, Alan; Boatwright, Anthony Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] magnum question Follow up with Jay, We thought it might help others to post what we found with Jay's system. This was a Magnum MS4024PAE model that is 120/240 split phase input and output. We describe this unit as 2-2k units in series inside one unit with a two winding transformer basically an autoformer. The issue Jay was having was a Overtemp fault when charging from generator after an hour or so. The first
Re: [RE-wrenches] magnum question
Jay, Another good idea. We have thought about a quick start guide including the menu map, does that sound like it would work for most? I know that's what my new Cannon printer came with and when I had a wireless programming question I had to go online for the full manual. Gary From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of jay peltz Sent: Monday, November 03, 2014 11:26 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] magnum question HI All, I've got many folks who are not very tech savy, so electronic manuals are a non option. I support the idea, just make it easy to buy paper copies. And really that includes me. I like a paper copy of the things I need. My phone while it has lots of manuals is too small to really read. I don't bring my table to the field except for known reprograming work ( classics). And the batteries never go dead. What I would suggest is a map of how to get around. Back in the days of Trace and Tony would know this for sure, they used to include in the later years a large format map which showed the menus/ adjustments Mostly this what folks need IMHO. If they have a problem they'll call but sometimes getting them to understand where to go/ how to get there is difficult via phone. But a map included with each item ( RC/ARC only really) will really help out. Thanks jay peltz power On Nov 3, 2014, at 10:50 AM, Dan Fink wrote: Here, we use a DropBox folder of manuals sorted by manufacturers that any employee or sub here can access; if the site is so far off grid it has no wifi or cell, they just have to download to their smartphone/tablet/etc before the job. Clients get a link to just the manuals for their equipment on Dropbox. CDs or DVDs for docs are of almost zero use to us, I think there's only one computer around here that even has a DVD drive anymore. USB drive or SD card would be FAR more useful, We can read those on our smartphones. Our most recent Magnum order last month still had paper manuals for everything; I 3-hole punch those for the client's brain book that hangs by their system control center by the fire extinguisher and baking soda with EMERGENCY SHUTDOWN INSTRUCTIONS and a troubleshooting flowchart on the cover. Likely I'll be buying fewer 3-ring binders for clients in the near future, or at least slimmer ones, but it's easy to include a couple pages of system settings that can be filled in by hand by the installer, signed and dated, right along with our battery bank inspection / maintenance forms, even if the actual paper manuals are not there. Really prefer that clients don't mess with system settings all that much anyway. With systems where the client takes responsibility for battery bank maintenance, I've found that the guilt factor of someone in charge seeing that nobody on their staff has filled out that prominently displayed battery maint form in awhile is a very effective motivator. I like the dedicated old iPad idea, Chris! going to look for one used and cheap, or a China tablet. Sigh. Anyone here remember back in the day when your test equipment / troubleshooting tool bag didn't include 2 different USB cords, thumb drive full of firmware upgrades and manuals, a laptop computer and little inverter to run it? AH well, at least we got MPPT now, 48v systems, MC4 PV module connectors and thinner wire too. Best; Dan Fink Buckville Energy IREC Certified Instructor(tm) for: ~ PV Installation Professional ~ Small Wind Installer NABCEP / IREC / ISPQ Accredited Continuing Education Providers(tm) 970.672.4342 On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 10:17 AM, Chris Mason cometenergysyst...@gmail.commailto:cometenergysyst...@gmail.com wrote: Gary, I have an older IPAD dedicated to manuals. I use PDF Pro to transfer them and catalogue them on the IPAD and I take that to every installation. I have dozens of manuals on the IPAD, and as long as I take the time to download them and catalogue them they are always available to me. ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgmailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmhttp://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.orghttp://www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update
Re: [RE-wrenches] magnum question
Follow up with Jay, We thought it might help others to post what we found with Jay's system. This was a Magnum MS4024PAE model that is 120/240 split phase input and output. We describe this unit as 2-2k units in series inside one unit with a two winding transformer basically an autoformer. The issue Jay was having was a Overtemp fault when charging from generator after an hour or so. The first tech suggested turning down the charge rate to 70% which solved the issue but didn't answer the question of why the unit was in Overtemp. The first suspicion was there was 120v into the inverter which will cause the transformer to run on half the windings and overheat at full charger output. It is perfectly acceptable to input 120v to the MS-PAE (either leg) and it will charge and the output will be 240v but the charge rate should be reduced. The voltage measurement to the input terminals was 240v so that issue was not suspected anymore. What Jay found was one pole of the 240v breaker from the generator was bad. What made it hard to troubleshoot and the reason for the post is that the MS-PAE will accept 120 or 240 input but always convert to 240 output. When measuring the input to a MS-PAE you should remove the wires from the terminal block and take the readings on the wires. The sense transformer on the inverter input will make the input look like 240v but no current on one leg will overheat the transformer. With the wires removed the voltage measurement will show there is no 240v available. Gary Gary Baxter Product Manager Magnum | Dimensions 2211 West Casino Rd. Everett, WA. 98204 Office 425.353.8833 | Mobile 425.501.0289 | Fax. 425.353.8390 Please Note My New Email Address: gbax...@sensata.com | www.magnumenergy.com A Sensata Technologies Business Unit -Original Message- From: Baxter, Gary Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 9:50 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] magnum question Hi Jay, Sorry you didn't get help. Let me know what you need and I will get you an answer. Gary Baxter Product Manager Magnum/Dimensions On Oct 23, 2014, at 9:19 PM, jay peltz j...@asis.com wrote: HI All, Does anyone have a person at Magnum in engineering or higher up than tech support. I've got a problem with an inverter that tech support won't or can't help with. thanks jay peltz power ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] magnum question
Hi Jay, Sorry you didn't get help. Let me know what you need and I will get you an answer. Gary Baxter Product Manager Magnum/Dimensions On Oct 23, 2014, at 9:19 PM, jay peltz j...@asis.com wrote: HI All, Does anyone have a person at Magnum in engineering or higher up than tech support. I've got a problem with an inverter that tech support won't or can't help with. thanks jay peltz power ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] magnum question
Jay, Perhaps asking the question here. I have hundreds of Magnum inverter installations, perhaps I or others can help. Larry On Oct 23, 2014, at 5:44 PM, jay peltz j...@asis.com wrote: HI All, Does anyone have a person at Magnum in engineering or higher up than tech support. I've got a problem with an inverter that tech support won't or can't help with. thanks jay peltz power ___ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] magnum question
HI All, Does anyone have a person at Magnum in engineering or higher up than tech support. I've got a problem with an inverter that tech support won't or can't help with. thanks jay peltz power ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
