Re: [RE-wrenches] midnite new inverter

[pieter offgridenterprises.org via RE-wrenches]

Just as a point of clarification: The Delta lightning arrestors (gray cans) are 
not surge arrestors and are not designed to protect sensitive electronics. They 
are lightning arrestors, it says so right on them. They are a spark Gap device 
and work on  Dv/DT.  The lightning arrestors do work for the designed purpose 
and are a good idea as a first line of defense. The surge arrestors like the 
MNSPD series are by definition a surge arrestor and specific break over 
voltages and should be used on all input and output connection points on a 
system. I would ever recommend removing a delta lightning arrestor, but would 
encourage installers to add a surge arrestor. The Delta lightning arrestors are 
useful to protect things like stator windings, transformers, and conductors, 
but they offer little protection for electronics like a surge arrestor is 
designed to do.
Pieter Huebner
Project Manager
Of grid Enterprises

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of John 
Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches
Sent: Friday, April 12, 2024 8:09 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: John Blittersdorf 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] midnite new inverter

Bill,
   Now that you mention it I did not have an SPD near the inverter,  I have one 
 on 1 of 2 TOP Racks, other rack with old Delta... My inverter lives on my 
workbench to allow swapping other inverters in for load testing using my whole 
house with everything connected to ancient wiring which did not include an SPD. 
 I put them on all my customers' systems and have had no issues on most of them 
and have never had to replace one. .  I have removed lots of those grey cans 
but have not taken care of my own system !!!  The Fortress eflex was not fully 
protected either.  That strike would have been the perfect test of the SPD's if 
I had them all installed. I  had a perfect real world test of
Outbacks ACA with surge protection  on two GVFX inverters that had annual 
lightning failure until I installed their surge protectors.  There have been no 
more failures since (at least 10 years)  The lightning was so severe at that  
location that the power company was constantly having issues on that power line.

John


On Fri, Apr 12, 2024 at 12:31 AM Bill Battagin via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> 
wrote:

John,

Just curious if you had SPDs (like Midnites) in either system?  AC 
side, DC side

Bill

Feather River Solar Electric

Bill Battagin, owner

4291 Nelson St. (Shipping)

5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)

Taylorsville, CA  95983

530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell)

CA. C10 Lic # 874049

Solar Powered since 1982

Home of the Sunny Side Up
On 4/10/2024 6:01 AM, John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches wrote:
Time will tell where the failure modes are.   I still don't like all the eggs 
in one basket. Do you have to send the units back for repair?  Had enough of 
that with Trace SW series inverters..
For off grid, I'll stick to the tried and true for now.  For Grid tie it is 
just a financial hit.  For off-grid power loss it is more important to deal 
with right away..

I am going to try a Fortress Envy at my off grid home but will keep my Outback 
field repairable VFXR wired in just in case. I had a massive lightning strike 
between my house and a guest cabin 1/4 mile away and I lost power from my 
Fortress Eflex battery at the cabin and my Outback inverter at my house.  I 
replaced the control board on my inverter ( I always keep one in reserve as it 
is usually the only board failure due to lightning)  and was back on line in 
1/2 hour and Fortress rushed me a new BMS board for the E-flex and a day later 
and a half hour swap had it back in service,  Now it is a different story with 
2 Simpliphi batteries I have from a customer that failed.  I have to ship them 
to California to have them evaluated to see if we had damaged them by misuse.  
Lots of expense and time lost.



John Blittersdorf
CV Wind Service / Off Grid Vermont
802-770-8625

On Tue, Apr 9, 2024 at 11:43 PM Scot Arey via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> 
wrote:
Wow, are we in the golden age of inverter/chargers? If it had 200-a.p pass thru 
it would be near perfect.

Begs the question: are stand alone charge controllers becoming a historical 
artifact?

Howard "Scot" Arey
Owner, Solar CenTex
254-300-1228
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Re: [RE-wrenches] midnite new inverter

[John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches]

Bill,
   Now that you mention it I did not have an SPD near the inverter,  I have
one  on 1 of 2 TOP Racks, other rack with old Delta... My inverter lives on
my workbench to allow swapping other inverters in for load testing using my
whole house with everything connected to ancient wiring which did not
include an SPD.  I put them on all my customers' systems and have had no
issues on most of them and have never had to replace one. .  I have removed
lots of those grey cans but have not taken care of my own system !!!  The
Fortress eflex was not fully protected either.  That strike would have been
the perfect test of the SPD's if I had them all installed. I  had a perfect
real world test of
Outbacks ACA with surge protection  on two GVFX inverters that had annual
lightning failure until I installed their surge protectors.  There have
been no more failures since (at least 10 years)  The lightning was so
severe at that  location that the power company was constantly having
issues on that power line.

John


On Fri, Apr 12, 2024 at 12:31 AM Bill Battagin via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> John,
>
> Just curious if you had SPDs (like Midnites) in either
> system?  AC side, DC side
>
> Bill
>
> Feather River Solar Electric
> Bill Battagin, owner
> 4291 Nelson St. (Shipping)
> 5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)
> Taylorsville, CA  95983
> 530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell)
> CA. C10 Lic # 874049
> Solar Powered since 1982
> Home of the Sunny Side Up
>
> On 4/10/2024 6:01 AM, John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
> Time will tell where the failure modes are.   I still don't like all the
> eggs in one basket. Do you have to send the units back for repair?  Had
> enough of that with Trace SW series inverters..
> For off grid, I'll stick to the tried and true for now.  For Grid tie it
> is just a financial hit.  For off-grid power loss it is more important
> to deal with right away..
>
> I am going to try a Fortress Envy at my off grid home but will keep my
> Outback field repairable VFXR wired in just in case. I had a massive
> lightning strike between my house and a guest cabin 1/4 mile away and I
> lost power from my Fortress Eflex battery at the cabin and my Outback
> inverter at my house.  I replaced the control board on my inverter ( I
> always keep one in reserve as it is usually the only board failure due to
> lightning)  and was back on line in 1/2 hour and Fortress rushed me a new
> BMS board for the E-flex and a day later and a half hour swap had it back
> in service,  Now it is a different story with 2 Simpliphi batteries I have
> from a customer that failed.  I have to ship them to California to have
> them evaluated to see if we had damaged them by misuse.  Lots of expense
> and time lost.
>
>
>
> John Blittersdorf
> CV Wind Service / Off Grid Vermont
> 802-770-8625
>
> On Tue, Apr 9, 2024 at 11:43 PM Scot Arey via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Wow, are we in the golden age of inverter/chargers? If it had 200-a.p
>> pass thru it would be near perfect.
>>
>> Begs the question: are stand alone charge controllers becoming a
>> historical artifact?
>>
>> Howard "Scot" Arey
>> Owner, Solar CenTex
>> 254-300-1228
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Re: [RE-wrenches] midnite new inverter

[Bill Battagin via RE-wrenches]

John,

            Just curious if you had SPDs (like Midnites) in either 
system?  AC side, DC side


Bill

Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, owner
4291 Nelson St. (Shipping)
5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)
Taylorsville, CA  95983
530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell)
CA. C10 Lic # 874049
Solar Powered since 1982
Home of the Sunny Side Up

On 4/10/2024 6:01 AM, John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches wrote:
Time will tell where the failure modes are.   I still don't like all 
the eggs in one basket. Do you have to send the units back for 
repair?  Had enough of that with Trace SW series inverters..
For off grid, I'll stick to the tried and true for now. For Grid tie 
it is just a financial hit.  For off-grid power loss it is more 
important to deal with right away..


I am going to try a Fortress Envy at my off grid home but will keep my 
Outback field repairable VFXR wired in just in case. I had a massive 
lightning strike between my house and a guest cabin 1/4 mile away and 
I lost power from my Fortress Eflex battery at the cabin and my 
Outback inverter at my house.  I replaced the control board on my 
inverter ( I always keep one in reserve as it is usually the only 
board failure due to lightning)  and was back on line in 1/2 hour and 
Fortress rushed me a new BMS board for the E-flex and a day later and 
a half hour swap had it back in service,  Now it is a different story 
with 2 Simpliphi batteries I have from a customer that failed.  I have 
to ship them to California to have them evaluated to see if we had 
damaged them by misuse. Lots of expense and time lost.



John Blittersdorf
CV Wind Service / Off Grid Vermont
802-770-8625

On Tue, Apr 9, 2024 at 11:43 PM Scot Arey via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Wow, are we in the golden age of inverter/chargers? If it had
200-a.p pass thru it would be near perfect.

Begs the question: are stand alone charge controllers becoming a
historical artifact?

Howard "Scot" Arey
Owner, Solar CenTex
254-300-1228
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Midnite new inverter

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches]

I wish bob and the boyz good luck on this product. Always support North 
American companies!!


I do not have much experience in the all in ones, but the one thing I 
would look for is how it responds to imbalance
on split phase loads. The bad experiences on (won't say the Chinese name 
of inverter) was it had trouble starting a fire pump
that was 120vac. it also had trouble with large 120vac air compressors. 
Even worse, not only did it have trouble starting
the load, it shut down the inverter.  I would not want that for sure it 
the fire was raging up the hill.


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-04-10 9:02 pm, Nick A Lucchese via RE-wrenches wrote:

I was under the same impression as David. At one point when I looked 
into it all the electrical specifications appeared identical. Lux isn't 
made by Deye? Ripping off designs within China isn't just exclusive to 
the US? Good ole inverter manufacturer family incest? Does the main 
difference only relate to AGS controls or something along those lines? 
Even that is within the Lux products, Envy and EG4? I'm not into either 
personally but was dragged into a Solark system two years ago. Doing my 
best to keep my back strong with transformer based inverters until I 
can support Midnite.


Nick

On Apr 10, 2024, at 10:00 AM, jay via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Hi David,

I'm going to disagree.
The fortress and EG4 are made by LUX.
It says so right on the cover.
And I've talked to Fortress about this.

Sol Ark is made by Deye

Jay

On Apr 10, 2024, at 10:12 AM, david quattro  
wrote:


I have not installed an Fortress yet, but I know they are made by Deye 
(same Chinese original manufacturer as SolArk inverters)
Here is a link for an excellent instructional by Steve Higgins @ Rolls 
-  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJqBULN9MgI=ygUWcm9sbHMgc3VycmV0dGUgaGlnZ2lucw%3D%3D
This assumes that Envy comes with the same programming shortcoming as 
SolArk, I don't know. In order to effectively use a SolArk with lead 
acid batteries you have trick it. This process takes several iterations 
checking specific gravity, which means multiple site visits stretched 
over perhaps a couple months. The Absorb setting is ineffectual, so 
Steve's solution is to employ the Equalize setting to actually achieve 
Absorption. Carefully record the settings (voltage, duration, and 
frequency) that deliver a consistent specific gravity in range.  On the 
rare occasions you actually need to equalize, you do it in person. When 
equalization is complete you return the settings back to your curated 
values.


On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 7:28 AM jay via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:
Can you explain what changes the eg4 18 inverter has vs the Envy as to 
LA programming?


To me the Envy has a big advantage due to it having AGS warm up/cool 
down that the EG4 does not.


Jay


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Midnite new inverter

[Nick A Lucchese via RE-wrenches]

I was under the same impression as David. At one point when I looked into it 
all the electrical specifications appeared identical. Lux isn’t made by Deye? 
Ripping off designs within China isn’t just exclusive to the US? Good ole 
inverter manufacturer family incest? Does the main difference only relate to 
AGS controls or something along those lines? Even that is within the Lux 
products, Envy and EG4? I’m not into either personally but was dragged into a 
Solark system two years ago. Doing my best to keep my back strong with 
transformer based inverters until I can support Midnite.

Nick






> On Apr 10, 2024, at 10:00 AM, jay via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi David,
> 
> I’m going to disagree.
> The fortress and EG4 are made by LUX.
> It says so right on the cover.  
> And I’ve talked to Fortress about this.
> 
> Sol Ark is made by Deye
> 
> Jay
> 
>> On Apr 10, 2024, at 10:12 AM, david quattro > > wrote:
>> 
>> I have not installed an Fortress yet, but I know they are made by Deye (same 
>> Chinese original manufacturer as SolArk inverters)
>> Here is a link for an excellent instructional by Steve Higgins @ Rolls -  
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJqBULN9MgI=ygUWcm9sbHMgc3VycmV0dGUgaGlnZ2lucw%3D%3D
>>  
>> 
>> This assumes that Envy comes with the same programming shortcoming as 
>> SolArk, I don't know. In order to effectively use a SolArk with lead acid 
>> batteries you have trick it. This process takes several iterations checking 
>> specific gravity, which means multiple site visits stretched over perhaps a 
>> couple months. The Absorb setting is ineffectual, so Steve's solution is to 
>> employ the Equalize setting to actually achieve Absorption. Carefully record 
>> the settings (voltage, duration, and frequency) that deliver a consistent 
>> specific gravity in range.  On the rare occasions you actually need to 
>> equalize, you do it in person. When equalization is complete you return the 
>> settings back to your curated values.
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 7:28 AM jay via RE-wrenches 
>> > > wrote:
>> Can you explain what changes the eg4 18 inverter has vs the Envy as to LA 
>> programming?
>> 
>> To me the Envy has a big advantage due to it having AGS warm up/cool down 
>> that the EG4 does not.
>> 
>> Jay

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Re: [RE-wrenches] midnite new inverter

[jay via RE-wrenches]

This is exactly the situation that the midnite AIO is addressing or similar. 

Lets say that you go with 11 panels ( and that works keeping it under 600voc).

If you go with enphase, thats about $3000 with cable. Plus you’ll need larger 
wire due to it only being 240vac vs closer to 380vdc for a DC series.  
That 600v controller will set you back between $1200-2000 with BOS and smaller 
wire.  

Using the $2000, and $3000.
If the AIO is say $4500. 

Then for $2500 your getting 3 inputs, 600vdc, AFCI, and all the other bells and 
whistles.  Much higher efficiency than AC coupling.
And a 12 kw vs 8kw inverter.  

And if customer decides to go more solar, then the AIO is already set up to add 
more with $0 expense on the CC side. 

A whole new world

Jay

> On Apr 10, 2024, at 11:06 AM, Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> Logan
> 
> Is MidNite making the AIO or is it rebrand like the other guys? 
> 
> If MidNite is actually making it, that adds a whole new level of interest. 
> MidNite makes great products already. This would be a game changer.
> 
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Maverick
> 
> Maverick Brown
> Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006
> Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc.
>  • Solar Commander Remote Power
>  • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection 
> maver...@mavericksolar.com
> 512-460-9825
> 
> 
> 
>> On Apr 10, 2024, at 10:54 AM, William Bryce via RE-wrenches 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> All
>> 
>> As a Beta tester and being a part of the development of the MNS All in One,  
>> MNS is working to ensure that the current limitations from the use of  LA 
>> batteries will be addressed and supported. 
>> 
>> MNS is addressing the concerns of using an AOI inverter because failure will 
>> require the R of the unit. This AIO is designed to be completely field 
>> serviceable and MNS will stock the boards and  will provide the technical 
>> help to get the system back up and running in the field.
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> Logan
>> 
>> On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 11:01 AM Steve Higgins via RE-wrenches 
>> > > wrote:
>> Good Morning Wrenches... 
>> 
>> When it comes to lead batteries, just be cautious of the all-in-ones and 
>> some of the hybrid inverters.   
>> 
>> Most of these inverters were not designed for Lead batteries and will 
>> struggle to charge them, resulting in sulfation (undercharging) issues. 
>> Eventually, this will lead to swelling of VRLA or excessive gassing on 
>> Flooded Batteries. Unfortunately, many of the "Hybrid" or "All-in-One" 
>> inverters released in the past 5-8 years are tailored more to 
>> lithium-chemistry batteries. I can't tell you how many battery banks have 
>> been cooked over the past couple of years due to the inability to control 
>> charging settings.  
>> 
>> If you can't control the Bulk/Absorb Voltage and Time, as well as the end 
>> amps termination setpoints, you will generally struggle to get and keep a 
>> Lead-Acid battery charged regardless of the battery you are using.  
>> 
>> I looked at the Midnite site and I don't see a user manual yet,  once it's 
>> posted I'll take a look and see if it's compatible for Rolls Batteries,  I'm 
>> pretty sure it will as Midnight has been asking battery charging questions 
>> the last couple of years.  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>    
>>   
>>   
>>   
>>   
>>   
>>   
>>   
>>  Steve Higgins ⋅ 
>> Technical Services Manager
>> t +1.902.597.4020  m +1.206.790.5840
>> f +1.902.597.8447  e st...@surrette.com 
>>   
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] midnite new inverter

[david quattro via RE-wrenches]

OK thanks for the correction. It's confusing to me because the external
chassis is identical
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Re: [RE-wrenches] midnite new inverter

[William Bryce via RE-wrenches]

Maverick

The new inverter is NOT a rebrand. The Inverter is mainly designed  by
Midnite Solar, and is manufactured at a Tier 1 facility in Asia.
It is a MNS Prodcut through and Through, just missing the cool cabinet and
black paint.


On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 1:06 PM Maverick Brown 
wrote:

> Logan
>
> Is MidNite making the AIO or is it rebrand like the other guys?
>
> If MidNite is actually making it, that adds a whole new level of interest.
> MidNite makes great products already. This would be a game changer.
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Maverick
>
> Maverick Brown
> Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006
> Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc.
>  • Solar Commander Remote Power
>  • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection
> maver...@mavericksolar.com
> 512-460-9825
>
>
>
> On Apr 10, 2024, at 10:54 AM, William Bryce via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> 
> All
>
> As a Beta tester and being a part of the development of the MNS All in
> One,  MNS is working to ensure that the current limitations from the use
> of  LA batteries will be addressed and supported.
>
> MNS is addressing the concerns of using an AOI inverter because failure
> will require the R of the unit. This AIO is designed to be
> completely field serviceable and MNS will stock the boards and  will
> provide the technical help to get the system back up and running in the
> field.
>
> Thanks
>
> Logan
>
> On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 11:01 AM Steve Higgins via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Good Morning Wrenches...
>>
>> When it comes to lead batteries, just be cautious of the all-in-ones and
>> some of the hybrid inverters.
>>
>> Most of these inverters were not designed for Lead batteries and will
>> struggle to charge them, resulting in sulfation (undercharging) issues.
>> Eventually, this will lead to swelling of VRLA or excessive gassing on
>> Flooded Batteries. Unfortunately, many of the "Hybrid" or "All-in-One"
>> inverters released in the past 5-8 years are tailored more to
>> lithium-chemistry batteries. I can't tell you how many battery banks have
>> been cooked over the past couple of years due to the inability to control
>> charging settings.
>>
>> If you can't control the Bulk/Absorb Voltage and Time, as well as the end
>> amps termination setpoints, you will generally struggle to get and keep a
>> Lead-Acid battery charged regardless of the battery you are using.
>>
>> I looked at the Midnite site and I don't see a user manual yet,  once
>> it's posted I'll take a look and see if it's compatible for Rolls
>> Batteries,  I'm pretty sure it will as Midnight has been asking battery
>> charging questions the last couple of years.
>>
>>
>>
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> Steve Higgins ⋅ Technical Services Manager
>> t +1.902.597.4020  m +1.206.790.5840
>> f +1.902.597.8447  e st...@surrette.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> CONFIDENTIALITY: The information transmitted herein is intended only for
>> the addressee and may contain confidential, proprietary and/or privileged
>> material. Any unauthorized review, distribution or other use of or the
>> taking of any action in reliance upon this information is prohibited. If
>> you receive this email in error, please contact the sender and delete or
>> destroy this message and all copies.
>> --
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 7:29 AM jay via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Can you explain what changes the eg4 18 inverter has vs the Envy as to
>>> LA programming?
>>>
>>> To me the Envy has a big advantage due to it having AGS warm up/cool
>>> down that the EG4 does not.
>>>
>>> Jay
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 10, 2024, at 7:49 AM, Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches <
>>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> John,
>>> If you are thinking of pairing the Envy with lead-acid batteries, I
>>> would strongly suggest not doing it. Even 

Re: [RE-wrenches] midnite new inverter

[Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches]

LoganIs MidNite making the AIO or is it rebrand like the other guys? If MidNite is actually making it, that adds a whole new level of interest. MidNite makes great products already. This would be a game changer.Thank you,MaverickMaverick BrownOff-Grid Solar Commander since 2006Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maver...@mavericksolar.com512-460-9825On Apr 10, 2024, at 10:54 AM, William Bryce via RE-wrenches  wrote:AllAs a Beta tester and being a part of the development of the MNS All in One,  MNS is working to ensure that the current limitations from the use of  LA batteries will be addressed and supported. MNS is addressing the concerns of using an AOI inverter because failure will require the R of the unit. This AIO is designed to be completely field serviceable and MNS will stock the boards and  will provide the technical help to get the system back up and running in the field.ThanksLoganOn Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 11:01 AM Steve Higgins via RE-wrenches  wrote:Good Morning Wrenches... When it comes to lead batteries, just be cautious of the all-in-ones and some of the hybrid inverters.   Most of these inverters were not designed for Lead batteries and will struggle to charge them, resulting in sulfation (undercharging) issues. Eventually, this will lead to swelling of VRLA or excessive gassing on Flooded Batteries. Unfortunately, many of the "Hybrid" or "All-in-One" inverters released in the past 5-8 years are tailored more to lithium-chemistry batteries. I can't tell you how many battery banks have been cooked over the past couple of years due to the inability to control charging settings.  If you can't control the Bulk/Absorb Voltage and Time, as well as the end amps termination setpoints, you will generally struggle to get and keep a Lead-Acid battery charged regardless of the battery you are using.  I looked at the Midnite site and I don't see a user manual yet,  once it's posted I'll take a look and see if it's compatible for Rolls Batteries,  I'm pretty sure it will as Midnight has been asking battery charging questions the last couple of years.  Steve Higgins ⋅ 
Technical Services Manager 
 
 
t 
+1.902.597.4020  m 
+1.206.790.5840f +1.902.597.8447  e 
st...@surrette.com 
CONFIDENTIALITY: The information transmitted herein is intended only for the addressee and may contain confidential, proprietary and/or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, distribution or other use of or the taking of any action in reliance upon this information is prohibited. If you receive this email in error, please contact the sender and delete or destroy this message and all copies.On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 7:29 AM jay via RE-wrenches  wrote:Can you explain what changes the eg4 18 inverter has vs the Envy as to LA programming?To me the Envy has a big advantage due to it having AGS warm up/cool down that the EG4 does not.JayOn Apr 10, 2024, at 7:49 AM, Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches  wrote:John,If you are thinking of pairing the Envy with lead-acid batteries, I would strongly suggest not doing it. Even though Fortress sales advertises the Envy to be compatible with lead-acid, after trying it in my off-grid home, I would emphatically say that it is not. The programming is inadequate, to put it kindly. And their support really doesn't have a clue about lead-acid - Fortress support literally said that they don't recommend pairing the Envy with l-a. However, I don't have an opinion about how it does with closed loop Li batteries. I did recently install an EG4 18k system, off-grid, with the client's knowledge that this was a bit of an experiment for me. Both the Envy and the EG4 are made by LuxPower and have been, to date, physically and programmatically almost identical. I had stayed away from EG4 since it seemed to be primarily aimed at the DIY market. However, the 18k appears to be a serious contender so far, although this installation is a fairly low stress situation. I've been fairly impressed with the system.   While this 18k is paired with EG4 Lithium batteries, EG4 has been making adjustments to the firmware to make it much more friendly to lead-acid. If you decide to go this route, check with EG4 (installer support - ask for Jarrett or Colt) to see where they are at with upgrading the firmware.I am also eagerly awaiting Midnite's AIO entry...HowieOn Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 9:02 AM John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches  wrote:Time will tell where the failure modes are.   I still don't like all the eggs in one basket. Do you have to send the units back for repair?  Had enough of that with Trace SW series inverters.. For off grid, I'll stick to the tried and true for now.  For Grid tie it is just a financial hit.  For off-grid power loss it is more important to deal with right away.. I am going to try a Fortress Envy at 

Re: [RE-wrenches] midnite new inverter

[jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi David,

I’m going to disagree.
The fortress and EG4 are made by LUX.
It says so right on the cover.  
And I’ve talked to Fortress about this.

Sol Ark is made by Deye

Jay

> On Apr 10, 2024, at 10:12 AM, david quattro  wrote:
> 
> I have not installed an Fortress yet, but I know they are made by Deye (same 
> Chinese original manufacturer as SolArk inverters)
> Here is a link for an excellent instructional by Steve Higgins @ Rolls -  
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJqBULN9MgI=ygUWcm9sbHMgc3VycmV0dGUgaGlnZ2lucw%3D%3D
>  
> 
> This assumes that Envy comes with the same programming shortcoming as SolArk, 
> I don't know. In order to effectively use a SolArk with lead acid batteries 
> you have trick it. This process takes several iterations checking specific 
> gravity, which means multiple site visits stretched over perhaps a couple 
> months. The Absorb setting is ineffectual, so Steve's solution is to employ 
> the Equalize setting to actually achieve Absorption. Carefully record the 
> settings (voltage, duration, and frequency) that deliver a consistent 
> specific gravity in range.  On the rare occasions you actually need to 
> equalize, you do it in person. When equalization is complete you return the 
> settings back to your curated values.
>  
> 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 7:28 AM jay via RE-wrenches 
>  > wrote:
> Can you explain what changes the eg4 18 inverter has vs the Envy as to LA 
> programming?
> 
> To me the Envy has a big advantage due to it having AGS warm up/cool down 
> that the EG4 does not.
> 
> Jay
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Apr 10, 2024, at 7:49 AM, Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches 
>> > > wrote:
>> 
>> John,
>> If you are thinking of pairing the Envy with lead-acid batteries, I would 
>> strongly suggest not doing it. Even though Fortress sales advertises the 
>> Envy to be compatible with lead-acid, after trying it in my off-grid home, I 
>> would emphatically say that it is not. The programming is inadequate, to put 
>> it kindly. And their support really doesn't have a clue about lead-acid - 
>> Fortress support literally said that they don't recommend pairing the Envy 
>> with l-a. However, I don't have an opinion about how it does with closed 
>> loop Li batteries. 
>> I did recently install an EG4 18k system, off-grid, with the client's 
>> knowledge that this was a bit of an experiment for me. Both the Envy and the 
>> EG4 are made by LuxPower and have been, to date, physically and 
>> programmatically almost identical. I had stayed away from EG4 since it 
>> seemed to be primarily aimed at the DIY market. However, the 18k appears to 
>> be a serious contender so far, although this installation is a fairly low 
>> stress situation. I've been fairly impressed with the system.   While this 
>> 18k is paired with EG4 Lithium batteries, EG4 has been making adjustments to 
>> the firmware to make it much more friendly to lead-acid. If you decide to go 
>> this route, check with EG4 (installer support - ask for Jarrett or Colt) to 
>> see where they are at with upgrading the firmware.
>> I am also eagerly awaiting Midnite's AIO entry...
>> 
>> Howie
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 9:02 AM John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches 
>> > > wrote:
>> Time will tell where the failure modes are.   I still don't like all the 
>> eggs in one basket. Do you have to send the units back for repair?  Had 
>> enough of that with Trace SW series inverters.. 
>> For off grid, I'll stick to the tried and true for now.  For Grid tie it is 
>> just a financial hit.  For off-grid power loss it is more important to deal 
>> with right away.. 
>> 
>> I am going to try a Fortress Envy at my off grid home but will keep my 
>> Outback field repairable VFXR wired in just in case. I had a massive 
>> lightning strike between my house and a guest cabin 1/4 mile away and I lost 
>> power from my Fortress Eflex battery at the cabin and my Outback inverter at 
>> my house.  I replaced the control board on my inverter ( I always keep one 
>> in reserve as it is usually the only board failure due to lightning)  and 
>> was back on line in 1/2 hour and Fortress rushed me a new BMS board for the 
>> E-flex and a day later and a half hour swap had it back in service,  Now it 
>> is a different story with 2 Simpliphi batteries I have from a customer that 
>> failed.  I have to ship them to California to have them evaluated to see if 
>> we had damaged them by misuse.  Lots of expense and time lost.
>> 
>>
>> 
>> John Blittersdorf
>> CV Wind Service / Off Grid Vermont
>> 802-770-8625
>> 
>> On Tue, Apr 9, 2024 at 11:43 PM Scot Arey via RE-wrenches 
>> > > wrote:
>> Wow, are we in the golden age of inverter/chargers? If it had 200-a.p pass 
>> thru it would be 

Re: [RE-wrenches] midnite new inverter

[Scot Arey via RE-wrenches]

I understand this. Whereas I can set absorb times and charged return ampsnfor an FM80, my SolArk appears to give generic times based on size of battery bank. Maybe it's a minimal issue but fact that Rolls has identified a concern is noteworthy to me.Thanks.Howard "Scot" AreyOwner, Solar CenTex254-300-1228
___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] midnite new inverter

[david quattro via RE-wrenches]

I have not installed an Fortress yet, but I know they are made by Deye
(same Chinese original manufacturer as SolArk inverters)
Here is a link for an excellent instructional by Steve Higgins @ Rolls -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJqBULN9MgI=ygUWcm9sbHMgc3VycmV0dGUgaGlnZ2lucw%3D%3D
This assumes that Envy comes with the same programming shortcoming as
SolArk, I don't know. In order to effectively use a SolArk with lead acid
batteries you have trick it. This process takes several iterations checking
specific gravity, which means multiple site visits stretched over perhaps a
couple months. The Absorb setting is ineffectual, so Steve's solution is to
employ the Equalize setting to actually achieve Absorption. Carefully
record the settings (voltage, duration, and frequency) that deliver a
consistent specific gravity in range.  On the rare occasions you actually
need to equalize, you do it in person. When equalization is complete you
return the settings back to your curated values.



On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 7:28 AM jay via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Can you explain what changes the eg4 18 inverter has vs the Envy as to LA
> programming?
>
> To me the Envy has a big advantage due to it having AGS warm up/cool down
> that the EG4 does not.
>
> Jay
>
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 10, 2024, at 7:49 AM, Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> John,
> If you are thinking of pairing the Envy with lead-acid batteries, I would
> strongly suggest not doing it. Even though Fortress sales advertises the
> Envy to be compatible with lead-acid, after trying it in my off-grid home,
> I would emphatically say that it is not. The programming is inadequate, to
> put it kindly. And their support really doesn't have a clue about lead-acid
> - Fortress support literally said that they don't recommend pairing the
> Envy with l-a. However, I don't have an opinion about how it does with
> closed loop Li batteries.
> I did recently install an EG4 18k system, off-grid, with the client's
> knowledge that this was a bit of an experiment for me. Both the Envy and
> the EG4 are made by LuxPower and have been, to date, physically and
> programmatically almost identical. I had stayed away from EG4 since it
> seemed to be primarily aimed at the DIY market. However, the 18k appears to
> be a serious contender so far, although this installation is a fairly low
> stress situation. I've been fairly impressed with the system.   While this
> 18k is paired with EG4 Lithium batteries, EG4 has been making adjustments
> to the firmware to make it much more friendly to lead-acid. If you decide
> to go this route, check with EG4 (installer support - ask for Jarrett or
> Colt) to see where they are at with upgrading the firmware.
> I am also eagerly awaiting Midnite's AIO entry...
>
> Howie
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 9:02 AM John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Time will tell where the failure modes are.   I still don't like all the
>> eggs in one basket. Do you have to send the units back for repair?  Had
>> enough of that with Trace SW series inverters..
>> For off grid, I'll stick to the tried and true for now.  For Grid tie it
>> is just a financial hit.  For off-grid power loss it is more important
>> to deal with right away..
>>
>> I am going to try a Fortress Envy at my off grid home but will keep my
>> Outback field repairable VFXR wired in just in case. I had a massive
>> lightning strike between my house and a guest cabin 1/4 mile away and I
>> lost power from my Fortress Eflex battery at the cabin and my Outback
>> inverter at my house.  I replaced the control board on my inverter ( I
>> always keep one in reserve as it is usually the only board failure due to
>> lightning)  and was back on line in 1/2 hour and Fortress rushed me a new
>> BMS board for the E-flex and a day later and a half hour swap had it back
>> in service,  Now it is a different story with 2 Simpliphi batteries I have
>> from a customer that failed.  I have to ship them to California to have
>> them evaluated to see if we had damaged them by misuse.  Lots of expense
>> and time lost.
>>
>>
>>
>> John Blittersdorf
>> CV Wind Service / Off Grid Vermont
>> 802-770-8625
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 9, 2024 at 11:43 PM Scot Arey via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Wow, are we in the golden age of inverter/chargers? If it had 200-a.p
>>> pass thru it would be near perfect.
>>>
>>> Begs the question: are stand alone charge controllers becoming a
>>> historical artifact?
>>>
>>> Howard "Scot" Arey
>>> Owner, Solar CenTex
>>> 254-300-1228
>>> ___
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>
>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>> 

Re: [RE-wrenches] midnite new inverter

[William Bryce via RE-wrenches]

All

As a Beta tester and being a part of the development of the MNS All in
One,  MNS is working to ensure that the current limitations from the use
of  LA batteries will be addressed and supported.

MNS is addressing the concerns of using an AOI inverter because failure
will require the R of the unit. This AIO is designed to be
completely field serviceable and MNS will stock the boards and  will
provide the technical help to get the system back up and running in the
field.

Thanks

Logan

On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 11:01 AM Steve Higgins via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Good Morning Wrenches...
>
> When it comes to lead batteries, just be cautious of the all-in-ones and
> some of the hybrid inverters.
>
> Most of these inverters were not designed for Lead batteries and will
> struggle to charge them, resulting in sulfation (undercharging) issues.
> Eventually, this will lead to swelling of VRLA or excessive gassing on
> Flooded Batteries. Unfortunately, many of the "Hybrid" or "All-in-One"
> inverters released in the past 5-8 years are tailored more to
> lithium-chemistry batteries. I can't tell you how many battery banks have
> been cooked over the past couple of years due to the inability to control
> charging settings.
>
> If you can't control the Bulk/Absorb Voltage and Time, as well as the end
> amps termination setpoints, you will generally struggle to get and keep a
> Lead-Acid battery charged regardless of the battery you are using.
>
> I looked at the Midnite site and I don't see a user manual yet,  once it's
> posted I'll take a look and see if it's compatible for Rolls Batteries,
> I'm pretty sure it will as Midnight has been asking battery charging
> questions the last couple of years.
>
>
>
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> Steve Higgins ⋅ Technical Services Manager
> t +1.902.597.4020  m +1.206.790.5840
> f +1.902.597.8447  e st...@surrette.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> CONFIDENTIALITY: The information transmitted herein is intended only for
> the addressee and may contain confidential, proprietary and/or privileged
> material. Any unauthorized review, distribution or other use of or the
> taking of any action in reliance upon this information is prohibited. If
> you receive this email in error, please contact the sender and delete or
> destroy this message and all copies.
> --
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 7:29 AM jay via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Can you explain what changes the eg4 18 inverter has vs the Envy as to LA
>> programming?
>>
>> To me the Envy has a big advantage due to it having AGS warm up/cool down
>> that the EG4 does not.
>>
>> Jay
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 10, 2024, at 7:49 AM, Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>> John,
>> If you are thinking of pairing the Envy with lead-acid batteries, I would
>> strongly suggest not doing it. Even though Fortress sales advertises the
>> Envy to be compatible with lead-acid, after trying it in my off-grid home,
>> I would emphatically say that it is not. The programming is inadequate, to
>> put it kindly. And their support really doesn't have a clue about lead-acid
>> - Fortress support literally said that they don't recommend pairing the
>> Envy with l-a. However, I don't have an opinion about how it does with
>> closed loop Li batteries.
>> I did recently install an EG4 18k system, off-grid, with the client's
>> knowledge that this was a bit of an experiment for me. Both the Envy and
>> the EG4 are made by LuxPower and have been, to date, physically and
>> programmatically almost identical. I had stayed away from EG4 since it
>> seemed to be primarily aimed at the DIY market. However, the 18k appears to
>> be a serious contender so far, although this installation is a fairly low
>> stress situation. I've been fairly impressed with the system.   While this
>> 18k is 

Re: [RE-wrenches] midnite new inverter

[Steve Higgins via RE-wrenches]

Good Morning Wrenches...

When it comes to lead batteries, just be cautious of the all-in-ones and
some of the hybrid inverters.

Most of these inverters were not designed for Lead batteries and will
struggle to charge them, resulting in sulfation (undercharging) issues.
Eventually, this will lead to swelling of VRLA or excessive gassing on
Flooded Batteries. Unfortunately, many of the "Hybrid" or "All-in-One"
inverters released in the past 5-8 years are tailored more to
lithium-chemistry batteries. I can't tell you how many battery banks have
been cooked over the past couple of years due to the inability to control
charging settings.

If you can't control the Bulk/Absorb Voltage and Time, as well as the end
amps termination setpoints, you will generally struggle to get and keep a
Lead-Acid battery charged regardless of the battery you are using.

I looked at the Midnite site and I don't see a user manual yet,  once it's
posted I'll take a look and see if it's compatible for Rolls Batteries,
I'm pretty sure it will as Midnight has been asking battery charging
questions the last couple of years.



 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Steve Higgins ⋅ Technical Services Manager
t +1.902.597.4020  m +1.206.790.5840
f +1.902.597.8447  e st...@surrette.com










--
CONFIDENTIALITY: The information transmitted herein is intended only for
the addressee and may contain confidential, proprietary and/or privileged
material. Any unauthorized review, distribution or other use of or the
taking of any action in reliance upon this information is prohibited. If
you receive this email in error, please contact the sender and delete or
destroy this message and all copies.
--


On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 7:29 AM jay via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Can you explain what changes the eg4 18 inverter has vs the Envy as to LA
> programming?
>
> To me the Envy has a big advantage due to it having AGS warm up/cool down
> that the EG4 does not.
>
> Jay
>
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 10, 2024, at 7:49 AM, Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> John,
> If you are thinking of pairing the Envy with lead-acid batteries, I would
> strongly suggest not doing it. Even though Fortress sales advertises the
> Envy to be compatible with lead-acid, after trying it in my off-grid home,
> I would emphatically say that it is not. The programming is inadequate, to
> put it kindly. And their support really doesn't have a clue about lead-acid
> - Fortress support literally said that they don't recommend pairing the
> Envy with l-a. However, I don't have an opinion about how it does with
> closed loop Li batteries.
> I did recently install an EG4 18k system, off-grid, with the client's
> knowledge that this was a bit of an experiment for me. Both the Envy and
> the EG4 are made by LuxPower and have been, to date, physically and
> programmatically almost identical. I had stayed away from EG4 since it
> seemed to be primarily aimed at the DIY market. However, the 18k appears to
> be a serious contender so far, although this installation is a fairly low
> stress situation. I've been fairly impressed with the system.   While this
> 18k is paired with EG4 Lithium batteries, EG4 has been making adjustments
> to the firmware to make it much more friendly to lead-acid. If you decide
> to go this route, check with EG4 (installer support - ask for Jarrett or
> Colt) to see where they are at with upgrading the firmware.
> I am also eagerly awaiting Midnite's AIO entry...
>
> Howie
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 9:02 AM John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Time will tell where the failure modes are.   I still don't like all the
>> eggs in one basket. Do you have to send the units back for repair?  Had
>> enough of that with Trace SW series inverters..
>> For off grid, I'll stick to the tried and true for now.  For Grid tie it
>> is 

Re: [RE-wrenches] midnite new inverter

[William Bryce via RE-wrenches]

John

The New MidNite AIO is completely field serviceable. If you have an
issue (say lightning) MNS will stock all the needed boards and everything
can be replaced on the wall.
On a scale of one to ten, it's a 7 with 10 being the hardest (lots of
screws). Only tools needed are an 11in One, pliers, and some hex wrenches.

I am a Beta tester.

Logan




On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 9:49 AM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> John,
> If you are thinking of pairing the Envy with lead-acid batteries, I would
> strongly suggest not doing it. Even though Fortress sales advertises the
> Envy to be compatible with lead-acid, after trying it in my off-grid home,
> I would emphatically say that it is not. The programming is inadequate, to
> put it kindly. And their support really doesn't have a clue about lead-acid
> - Fortress support literally said that they don't recommend pairing the
> Envy with l-a. However, I don't have an opinion about how it does with
> closed loop Li batteries.
> I did recently install an EG4 18k system, off-grid, with the client's
> knowledge that this was a bit of an experiment for me. Both the Envy and
> the EG4 are made by LuxPower and have been, to date, physically and
> programmatically almost identical. I had stayed away from EG4 since it
> seemed to be primarily aimed at the DIY market. However, the 18k appears to
> be a serious contender so far, although this installation is a fairly low
> stress situation. I've been fairly impressed with the system.   While this
> 18k is paired with EG4 Lithium batteries, EG4 has been making adjustments
> to the firmware to make it much more friendly to lead-acid. If you decide
> to go this route, check with EG4 (installer support - ask for Jarrett or
> Colt) to see where they are at with upgrading the firmware.
> I am also eagerly awaiting Midnite's AIO entry...
>
> Howie
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 9:02 AM John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Time will tell where the failure modes are.   I still don't like all the
>> eggs in one basket. Do you have to send the units back for repair?  Had
>> enough of that with Trace SW series inverters..
>> For off grid, I'll stick to the tried and true for now.  For Grid tie it
>> is just a financial hit.  For off-grid power loss it is more important
>> to deal with right away..
>>
>> I am going to try a Fortress Envy at my off grid home but will keep my
>> Outback field repairable VFXR wired in just in case. I had a massive
>> lightning strike between my house and a guest cabin 1/4 mile away and I
>> lost power from my Fortress Eflex battery at the cabin and my Outback
>> inverter at my house.  I replaced the control board on my inverter ( I
>> always keep one in reserve as it is usually the only board failure due to
>> lightning)  and was back on line in 1/2 hour and Fortress rushed me a new
>> BMS board for the E-flex and a day later and a half hour swap had it back
>> in service,  Now it is a different story with 2 Simpliphi batteries I have
>> from a customer that failed.  I have to ship them to California to have
>> them evaluated to see if we had damaged them by misuse.  Lots of expense
>> and time lost.
>>
>>
>>
>> John Blittersdorf
>> CV Wind Service / Off Grid Vermont
>> 802-770-8625
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 9, 2024 at 11:43 PM Scot Arey via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Wow, are we in the golden age of inverter/chargers? If it had 200-a.p
>>> pass thru it would be near perfect.
>>>
>>> Begs the question: are stand alone charge controllers becoming a
>>> historical artifact?
>>>
>>> Howard "Scot" Arey
>>> Owner, Solar CenTex
>>> 254-300-1228
>>> ___
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>
>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
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>>> the other:
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Re: [RE-wrenches] midnite new inverter

[jay via RE-wrenches]

Can you explain what changes the eg4 18 inverter has vs the Envy as to LA 
programming?

To me the Envy has a big advantage due to it having AGS warm up/cool down that 
the EG4 does not.

Jay





> On Apr 10, 2024, at 7:49 AM, Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> John,
> If you are thinking of pairing the Envy with lead-acid batteries, I would 
> strongly suggest not doing it. Even though Fortress sales advertises the Envy 
> to be compatible with lead-acid, after trying it in my off-grid home, I would 
> emphatically say that it is not. The programming is inadequate, to put it 
> kindly. And their support really doesn't have a clue about lead-acid - 
> Fortress support literally said that they don't recommend pairing the Envy 
> with l-a. However, I don't have an opinion about how it does with closed loop 
> Li batteries. 
> I did recently install an EG4 18k system, off-grid, with the client's 
> knowledge that this was a bit of an experiment for me. Both the Envy and the 
> EG4 are made by LuxPower and have been, to date, physically and 
> programmatically almost identical. I had stayed away from EG4 since it seemed 
> to be primarily aimed at the DIY market. However, the 18k appears to be a 
> serious contender so far, although this installation is a fairly low stress 
> situation. I've been fairly impressed with the system.   While this 18k is 
> paired with EG4 Lithium batteries, EG4 has been making adjustments to the 
> firmware to make it much more friendly to lead-acid. If you decide to go this 
> route, check with EG4 (installer support - ask for Jarrett or Colt) to see 
> where they are at with upgrading the firmware.
> I am also eagerly awaiting Midnite's AIO entry...
> 
> Howie
> 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 9:02 AM John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches 
>  > wrote:
> Time will tell where the failure modes are.   I still don't like all the eggs 
> in one basket. Do you have to send the units back for repair?  Had enough of 
> that with Trace SW series inverters.. 
> For off grid, I'll stick to the tried and true for now.  For Grid tie it is 
> just a financial hit.  For off-grid power loss it is more important to deal 
> with right away.. 
> 
> I am going to try a Fortress Envy at my off grid home but will keep my 
> Outback field repairable VFXR wired in just in case. I had a massive 
> lightning strike between my house and a guest cabin 1/4 mile away and I lost 
> power from my Fortress Eflex battery at the cabin and my Outback inverter at 
> my house.  I replaced the control board on my inverter ( I always keep one in 
> reserve as it is usually the only board failure due to lightning)  and was 
> back on line in 1/2 hour and Fortress rushed me a new BMS board for the 
> E-flex and a day later and a half hour swap had it back in service,  Now it 
> is a different story with 2 Simpliphi batteries I have from a customer that 
> failed.  I have to ship them to California to have them evaluated to see if 
> we had damaged them by misuse.  Lots of expense and time lost.
> 
>
> 
> John Blittersdorf
> CV Wind Service / Off Grid Vermont
> 802-770-8625
> 
> On Tue, Apr 9, 2024 at 11:43 PM Scot Arey via RE-wrenches 
>  > wrote:
> Wow, are we in the golden age of inverter/chargers? If it had 200-a.p pass 
> thru it would be near perfect.
> 
> Begs the question: are stand alone charge controllers becoming a historical 
> artifact?
> 
> Howard "Scot" Arey
> Owner, Solar CenTex
> 254-300-1228
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
> 
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org 
> 
> 
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org 
> 
> 
> Change listserver email address & settings:
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> 
> 
> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the 
> other:
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> 
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> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] midnite new inverter

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Wrenches,
All in one boxes are easy to install and look all pretty and clean but is
it really a good idea to have the CC, Inverter, Ats, bms, breakers all in
one.   cabinet. In the past this has not been the best long term solution.
Seperate serviceable components are always better.
Fun times

On Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 5:48 AM Jay via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi scott
>
> Yes I think for new larger systems the AIO are the present/future
>
> Jay
>
> > On Apr 9, 2024, at 9:42 PM, scot.a...@solarcentex.com wrote:
> >
> > 
> > Wow, are we in the golden age of inverter/chargers? If it had 200-a.p
> pass thru it would be near perfect.
> >
> > Begs the question: are stand alone charge controllers becoming a
> historical artifact?
> >
> > Howard "Scot" Arey
> > Owner, Solar CenTex
> > 254-300-1228
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] midnite new inverter

[Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches]

John,
If you are thinking of pairing the Envy with lead-acid batteries, I would
strongly suggest not doing it. Even though Fortress sales advertises the
Envy to be compatible with lead-acid, after trying it in my off-grid home,
I would emphatically say that it is not. The programming is inadequate, to
put it kindly. And their support really doesn't have a clue about lead-acid
- Fortress support literally said that they don't recommend pairing the
Envy with l-a. However, I don't have an opinion about how it does with
closed loop Li batteries.
I did recently install an EG4 18k system, off-grid, with the client's
knowledge that this was a bit of an experiment for me. Both the Envy and
the EG4 are made by LuxPower and have been, to date, physically and
programmatically almost identical. I had stayed away from EG4 since it
seemed to be primarily aimed at the DIY market. However, the 18k appears to
be a serious contender so far, although this installation is a fairly low
stress situation. I've been fairly impressed with the system.   While this
18k is paired with EG4 Lithium batteries, EG4 has been making adjustments
to the firmware to make it much more friendly to lead-acid. If you decide
to go this route, check with EG4 (installer support - ask for Jarrett or
Colt) to see where they are at with upgrading the firmware.
I am also eagerly awaiting Midnite's AIO entry...

Howie


On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 9:02 AM John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Time will tell where the failure modes are.   I still don't like all the
> eggs in one basket. Do you have to send the units back for repair?  Had
> enough of that with Trace SW series inverters..
> For off grid, I'll stick to the tried and true for now.  For Grid tie it
> is just a financial hit.  For off-grid power loss it is more important
> to deal with right away..
>
> I am going to try a Fortress Envy at my off grid home but will keep my
> Outback field repairable VFXR wired in just in case. I had a massive
> lightning strike between my house and a guest cabin 1/4 mile away and I
> lost power from my Fortress Eflex battery at the cabin and my Outback
> inverter at my house.  I replaced the control board on my inverter ( I
> always keep one in reserve as it is usually the only board failure due to
> lightning)  and was back on line in 1/2 hour and Fortress rushed me a new
> BMS board for the E-flex and a day later and a half hour swap had it back
> in service,  Now it is a different story with 2 Simpliphi batteries I have
> from a customer that failed.  I have to ship them to California to have
> them evaluated to see if we had damaged them by misuse.  Lots of expense
> and time lost.
>
>
>
> John Blittersdorf
> CV Wind Service / Off Grid Vermont
> 802-770-8625
>
> On Tue, Apr 9, 2024 at 11:43 PM Scot Arey via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Wow, are we in the golden age of inverter/chargers? If it had 200-a.p
>> pass thru it would be near perfect.
>>
>> Begs the question: are stand alone charge controllers becoming a
>> historical artifact?
>>
>> Howard "Scot" Arey
>> Owner, Solar CenTex
>> 254-300-1228
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
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>> other:
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>>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] midnite new inverter

[John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches]

Time will tell where the failure modes are.   I still don't like all the
eggs in one basket. Do you have to send the units back for repair?  Had
enough of that with Trace SW series inverters..
For off grid, I'll stick to the tried and true for now.  For Grid tie it is
just a financial hit.  For off-grid power loss it is more important to deal
with right away..

I am going to try a Fortress Envy at my off grid home but will keep my
Outback field repairable VFXR wired in just in case. I had a massive
lightning strike between my house and a guest cabin 1/4 mile away and I
lost power from my Fortress Eflex battery at the cabin and my Outback
inverter at my house.  I replaced the control board on my inverter ( I
always keep one in reserve as it is usually the only board failure due to
lightning)  and was back on line in 1/2 hour and Fortress rushed me a new
BMS board for the E-flex and a day later and a half hour swap had it back
in service,  Now it is a different story with 2 Simpliphi batteries I have
from a customer that failed.  I have to ship them to California to have
them evaluated to see if we had damaged them by misuse.  Lots of expense
and time lost.



John Blittersdorf
CV Wind Service / Off Grid Vermont
802-770-8625

On Tue, Apr 9, 2024 at 11:43 PM Scot Arey via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Wow, are we in the golden age of inverter/chargers? If it had 200-a.p pass
> thru it would be near perfect.
>
> Begs the question: are stand alone charge controllers becoming a
> historical artifact?
>
> Howard "Scot" Arey
> Owner, Solar CenTex
> 254-300-1228
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] midnite new inverter

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi scott

Yes I think for new larger systems the AIO are the present/future

Jay

> On Apr 9, 2024, at 9:42 PM, scot.a...@solarcentex.com wrote:
> 
> 
> Wow, are we in the golden age of inverter/chargers? If it had 200-a.p pass 
> thru it would be near perfect.
> 
> Begs the question: are stand alone charge controllers becoming a historical 
> artifact?
> 
> Howard "Scot" Arey
> Owner, Solar CenTex
> 254-300-1228
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Re: [RE-wrenches] midnite new inverter

[Scot Arey via RE-wrenches]

Wow, are we in the golden age of inverter/chargers? If it had 200-a.p pass thru it would be near perfect.Begs the question: are stand alone charge controllers becoming a historical artifact?Howard "Scot" AreyOwner, Solar CenTex254-300-1228
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Re: [RE-wrenches] midnite new inverter

[Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches]

The last I heard, they are shipping this month or early next month. The
pricing is supposed to be comparable to the other all in ones  (Envy,
Sol-Ark, EG4, etc.) deportment on your distributor.
Howie

On Tue, Apr 9, 2024, 6:55 PM jay via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Does anyone know the pricing and when it’ll be available?
>
>  The New Midnite MN15-12KW-AIO All in One (AIO) inverter
>
> Looks good.
>
> thanks
>
> jay
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[RE-wrenches] midnite new inverter

[jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi All,

Does anyone know the pricing and when it’ll be available?

 The New Midnite MN15-12KW-AIO All in One (AIO) inverter

Looks good.

thanks

jay___
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